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    wormholes, blackholes, projecting gravity, time dilation and quantum gravity

    if that thread title doesn't scare away all except the most die hard science fiction lovers nothing will

    I'm curious why the black hole caused the event horizon to be dragged backwards like during the initial vortex. also why they chose (and could plausibly claim) that time dilations could happen in advance of gravity fields? and how mass on the other side of a wormhole could transmit gravity across it? we never saw such fascinating subject treated again on the show.

    indeed, if I must choose a single show from sg1 that shows science fiction at its' best - this was the show.

    comments? speculation?

    #2
    Because it's special... No!

    A Wizard did it!

    ... Gravity. Big pain in the ass. Plain and simple, gravity. Black hole cause of alot of that...

    *shrug*

    I'd go with the Wizard did it.

    Note: User's posts are rarely serious.
    Member of the F.O.R.D. || Martouf Marty's Webpage || (LJ)

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by terraatlantus
      if that thread title doesn't scare away all except the most die hard science fiction lovers nothing will

      I'm curious why the black hole caused the event horizon to be dragged backwards like during the initial vortex. also why they chose (and could plausibly claim) that time dilations could happen in advance of gravity fields? and how mass on the other side of a wormhole could transmit gravity across it? we never saw such fascinating subject treated again on the show.

      indeed, if I must choose a single show from sg1 that shows science fiction at its' best - this was the show.

      comments? speculation?
      True... that was pure sci fi and i loved it!! Great ep!!unfortunatley, i failed physics in high school so i can't give you any comments or speculation on that part. My brain hurts now from just reading that post!!

      I will go find some science peeps who might be able to help you...... i know theres some floating around here somewhere....
      Random Thought of the day:

      -If you had a friend who was a tight rope walker and yall were walking down the side walk and he fell....that would be completly unacceptable!
      -I realize that alot of people don't like Jesus, or just ignore Him or have no use for Him, but i think the best thing a person can do is to read the gospels in the Bible and really look at Jesus, because if a person does this, they will realize that the Jesus they learned about in Sunday school or the Jesus they hear jokes about or the skinny, Gandhi Jesus that exists in their imaginations isn't anything like the real Jesus at all.



      heh heh heh...^compliments of suekay(((suekay))).....disregard the question mark on the end!!

      Comment


        #4
        hey man.......why is your rep square black?!?!? thats kinda creepy.....lets make this thread about the weirdness of the black block!! lol....just kidding

        and all that stuff happens because GRAVITY IS THE DEVIL!!!
        Random Thought of the day:

        -If you had a friend who was a tight rope walker and yall were walking down the side walk and he fell....that would be completly unacceptable!
        -I realize that alot of people don't like Jesus, or just ignore Him or have no use for Him, but i think the best thing a person can do is to read the gospels in the Bible and really look at Jesus, because if a person does this, they will realize that the Jesus they learned about in Sunday school or the Jesus they hear jokes about or the skinny, Gandhi Jesus that exists in their imaginations isn't anything like the real Jesus at all.



        heh heh heh...^compliments of suekay(((suekay))).....disregard the question mark on the end!!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by yoojoo
          hey man.......why is your rep square black?!?!? thats kinda creepy.....lets make this thread about the weirdness of the black block!! lol....just kidding

          and all that stuff happens because GRAVITY IS THE DEVIL!!!
          The reputation block is black when the person has their reputation blocks disabled because they don't want everyone else to see what their reputation level is.

          Note: User's posts are rarely serious.
          Member of the F.O.R.D. || Martouf Marty's Webpage || (LJ)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MartoufMarty
            The reputation block is black when the person has their reputation blocks disabled because they don't want everyone else to see what their reputation level is.

            well, if you're curious. It was -19 awhile ago then -13 then -11 then -16.
            attention all negs
            remember misbehaving is in the eye of the tyrant

            *produces a Roswell gray*

            this my Asgard

            please kiss my Asgard

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by terraatlantus
              if that thread title doesn't scare away all except the most die hard science fiction lovers nothing will
              Yes, it is a very long thread title.

              That was a good who episode.

              Comment


                #8
                As for the time dilation, you'll notice how science theorizes that time slows down near a black hole, even though it is still too far away to affect you with considerable gravity effect.

                Though it's questionable as to the ratio of the time dilation in the episode in relation to how far away the Stargate actually is from the black hole, if you compare with *sigh* Andromeda, the Andromeda Ascendant is stuck a few hundred kilometers from the black hole when it stands in "orbit" for 300 years, though affecting everyone within the Andromeda, making them feel that only about a second passed.

                So yeah, time dilation is a very fickle thing when talking about its range and its ratio.
                Enter my game site...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by terraatlantus
                  if that thread title doesn't scare away all except the most die hard science fiction lovers nothing will

                  I'm curious why the black hole caused the event horizon to be dragged backwards like during the initial vortex. also why they chose (and could plausibly claim) that time dilations could happen in advance of gravity fields? and how mass on the other side of a wormhole could transmit gravity across it? we never saw such fascinating subject treated again on the show.

                  indeed, if I must choose a single show from sg1 that shows science fiction at its' best - this was the show.

                  comments? speculation?
                  Well, the only reason I can think of is just Stargate physics ... those are just unreal
                  If wormwholes would exist in real life :
                  - they would be transparent in the first place (you should see through them to the other side)
                  - they wouldn't travel in the third dimension, but would use a double fourth dimensional drag and drop effect.
                  - there would be no desintegration going on
                  - they'd be 2-way

                  Stargate chose to have a blue one-way wormhole to make it easier to write stories. Otherwisely the exploring would be unnecessary, they could be killed without stepping through instantly while dialing odd worlds because of poison, heat, radiation and so on.
                  That vortex thing spinning backwards was just meant to give a visual effect of the gravitational field going through the stargate, so that viewers kan see it's coming through. The show dismisses the fact that the space behind the event horizon has nothing to do with the wormhole, and therefore it's very odd that the event horizon would be pulled backwards ... as there is nothing but air behind it.

                  Why the time dillations advanced the gravitational field ? Well, it's a nice addy to the show, isn't ? I could not imagine how that would be possible in real time, really.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Gothann

                    Though it's questionable as to the ratio of the time dilation in the episode in relation to how far away the Stargate actually is from the black hole, if you compare with *sigh* Andromeda, the Andromeda Ascendant is stuck a few hundred kilometers from the black hole when it stands in "orbit" for 300 years, though affecting everyone within the Andromeda, making them feel that only about a second passed.

                    So yeah, time dilation is a very fickle thing when talking about its range and its ratio.

                    why is andromeda so lame? their special effects are good, their stories suck. Their dialogue embarasses me. If it wasn't for the the chick that plays andromeda I wouldn't even watch occassionally (usually with the sound off or low)

                    and the sun that became a black hole must be massive so the planet must've been very far away to sustain life at one point. even so time dilation relates to relative motion doesn't it? and the wormhole bypasses relativity doesn't it?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by terraatlantus
                      I'm curious why the black hole caused the event horizon to be dragged backwards like during the initial vortex.
                      Cos it looked pretty. Cos along with the rotating effect of the event horizon it gave an eerie sort of feeling - something strange had been happening with the gate, and it wasn't good and no one could turn it off, and then the event horizon starts looking wrong. It's not scary like John Hurt's chestburster, it's scary on a totally different level, cos *we* aren't meant to be scared by it but we're meant to see that the SGC would see that and get a bit freaked that this great big powerful alien thingy is not only unswitchoffable but doing weird stuff to boot.

                      Originally posted by terraatlantus
                      also why they chose (and could plausibly claim) that time dilations could happen in advance of gravity fields? and how mass on the other side of a wormhole could transmit gravity across it?
                      There'd never been any indication of parity of gravity between the two sides of the wormhole, but time had always been constant between one side of the wormhole and the other. Perhaps the way the wormhole 'carries' time as opposed to how it carries gravity is like how it can allow radio signals through but not visible light. I don't know, I can't be very scientific about it cos it doesn't seem to make sense. But then an awful lot of RL stuff has seemed at first to contradict science-as-we-know it. (Like, for a while Astronomers were convinced that there were discrepancies in the orbit of Mercury that could only be explained by the presence of a planet with a smaller orbit. They spent years hunting in the skies for 'Hyperion' but never found it. Thing is, they were using Newton's Laws at the time, laws which worked pretty much perfectly except when one of the two bodies is really massive and really close to the other, when only Einstein's revised version of Newton can fit the facts.)

                      Originally posted by terraatlantus
                      we never saw such fascinating subject treated again on the show.

                      indeed, if I must choose a single show from sg1 that shows science fiction at its' best - this was the show.
                      I totally agree that this was a fascinating idea. MoT was a Great Episode for many reasons, not least because it knew exactly when to use Proper Science, exactly when to speculate stuff that sounds plausible, and exactly when to be a bit unscientific for the sake of dramatic tension.

                      Madeleine

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by terraatlantus
                        I'm curious why the black hole caused the event horizon to be dragged backwards like during the initial vortex.
                        Well the event horizon is a mass and since black holes have enormous gravity, it could attract the event horizon towards it.

                        and how mass on the other side of a wormhole could transmit gravity across it?
                        In theory the wormhole could've transmitted gravitons which would've caused an increase in gravity, this would be the most likely answer if it wasn't for the fact that gravitons are still to be proven to exist. But I guess in Stargate they just exist
                        Signed,

                        Gregorius
                        Gateworld Forum Troublemaker Extraordinaire.


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                        Support the (r)Evolution: Gregorius for Moderator.
                        Gregorius, because clowning about is his raison d'être.

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                          #13
                          [QUOTE]
                          Originally posted by terraatlantus
                          if that thread title doesn't scare away all except the most die hard science fiction lovers nothing will
                          Hee hee hee

                          I'm curious why the black hole caused the event horizon to be dragged backwards like during the initial vortex.
                          Might the energy-to-matter conversion process on the BH side of the Gate have broken down as a result of direct contact with the gravitational forces? (If so, then Col. Cromwell would have exited the Gate as energy rather than matter. ). Was the vortex on the Earth-side Gate a way of showing viewers that the Gate's conversion "room" was also breaking apart?

                          No... now that I think about it, if the conversion area was destroyed then Cromwell's mass should have been enough to collapse the wormhole altogether.

                          also why they chose (and could plausibly claim) that time dilations could happen in advance of gravity fields?
                          Sam did make the disclaimer that... "Now according to everything I thought I knew about relativity that is just not possible."
                          and... "they're proceeding with a plan that makes assumptions about gravity and space-time with absolutely no regard for the fact that it completely contradicts our observations."

                          So she was basicly saying that Narim had been right after all; that physics as we know it falls short of reality.

                          But that's one of the things I used to love about the series; the Tauri moved in circles that they knew were largely beyond their understanding yet they strove to understand. Unfortunately, they grew out of that(I know; everybody grows up) and now they are pretty much masters of the universe, but with other species' stuff.

                          In this way they have become like the Goa'uld.


                          we never saw such fascinating subject treated again on the show.
                          <sigh> Too true.

                          indeed, if I must choose a single show from sg1 that shows science fiction at its' best - this was the show.
                          Yes. MoT gets my vote, too.
                          Gracie

                          A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
                          "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
                          One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
                          resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
                          confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
                          A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
                          The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


                          Comment


                            #14
                            [QUOTE=XToDaZ]
                            If wormwholes would exist in real life :
                            - they would be transparent in the first place (you should see through them to the other side)
                            - they wouldn't travel in the third dimension, but would use a double fourth dimensional drag and drop effect.
                            - there would be no desintegration going on
                            - they'd be 2-way

                            My understanding of wormhole theory is admittedly dated (circa Stephen Hawkins' Brief History of Time) but I thought that you wouldn't be able to see the other side of a wormhole or have two-way traffic except for radio signals because of the singularity which is not the mouth of the hole but the smallest point somewhere inside it.


                            Why the time dillations advanced the gravitational field ? Well, it's a nice addy to the show, isn't ? I could not imagine how that would be possible in real time, really.
                            Did the time dilations advance the field? Or did the Gate, in order to compensate for the pull by trying to form a protective bubble around itself?
                            Gracie

                            A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
                            "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
                            One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
                            resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
                            confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
                            A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
                            The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by terraatlantus
                              if that thread title doesn't scare away all except the most die hard science fiction lovers nothing will
                              LOL
                              Indeed, if I must choose a single show from sg1 that shows science fiction at its' best - this was the show.
                              Yep. Definitely.
                              There is only one thing we can ever truly control: whether we are good, or evil.

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