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    #1

    The real Ba'al(s)?

    I suddenly realized that with the time-hopping Ba'al altering the past, there would be TWO REAL Ba'als in the altered timeline Ba'al changed - not counting the clones, since he obviously wouldn't have needed them with changing the timeline and the ones from the original timeline have all died since the real Ba'al is about to be executed in the beginning of the movie. Which means there is the original Ba'al from the original timeline (aka the Summit/Last Stand System Lord version) and the timehopping & cloning Ba'al from season 9/10/start of Continuum.

    What would the past Ba'al have done would he have encountered a timehopping Ba'al, a future version of himelf? What would future Ba'al have done with the original Ba'al from the past? I don't think it's likely that TT Ba'al would have killed the Original Ba'al, since he's used having multiple himselves with all the cloning issues.

    Which let's me take a very good guess at the supposed end twist of the movie:

    Spoiler:
    Original/past Ba'al and timetraveling/future Ba'al have teamed up. The team finds somehow out it's the real Ba'al out there that has altered the timeline, so not a clone, and eventually shoot the hell outta him, happily celebrating they've finally killed the real one! SG-1 finds the timemachine, fix the timeline and travel back to the 'normal' timeline. Which brings SG-1 back to the beginning, where Ba'al is executed by the Tok'ra. Since he now doesn't have acces to the timemachine, Ba'al dies. They do not realize, however, that with the timeline changed there are two real Ba'als out there. They have just executed the real one, so they think. And the twist at the end is that one of the two real Ba'als lives, without SG-1 knowing it.

    Which adds perfectly to what CS said in his interview on the fate of Ba'al.
    Last edited by TBA; 10 May 2008, 09:34 AM.
    Mia: Don't you hate that?
    Vincent: Hate what?
    Mia: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?
    Vincent: I don't know. That's a good question.
    Mia: That's when you know you've found somebody really special: you can just shut the f*** up for a minute and comfortably share silence.
    - Pulp Fiction
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    #2
    Originally posted by TBA View Post
    I suddenly realized that with the time-hopping Ba'al altering the past, there would be TWO REAL Ba'als in the altered timeline Ba'al changed - not counting the clones, since he obviously wouldn't have needed them with changing the timeline and the ones from the original timeline have all died since the real Ba'al is about to be executed in the beginning of the movie. Which means there is the original Ba'al from the original timeline (aka the Summit/Last Stand System Lord version) and the timehopping & cloning Ba'al from season 9/10/start of Continuum.

    What would the past Ba'al have done would he have encountered a timehopping Ba'al, a future version of himelf? What would future Ba'al have done with the original Ba'al from the past? I don't think it's likely that TT Ba'al would have killed the Original Ba'al, since he's used having multiple himselves with all the cloning issues.

    Which let's me take a very good guess at the supposed end twist of the movie:

    Spoiler:
    Original/past Ba'al and timetraveling/future Ba'al have teamed up. The team finds somehow out it's the real Ba'al, so not a clone, and shoot the hell outta him, happily celebrating they've finally killed the real one! SG-1 finds the timemachine, fix the timeline and travel back to the 'normal' timeline. Which brings SG-1 back to the beginning, where Ba'al is executed by the Tok'ra. Since he now doesn't have acces to the timemachine, Ba'al dies. They do not realize, however, that with the timeline changed there are two real Ba'als out there. They have just executed the real one, so they think. And the twist at the end is that one of the two real Ba'als lives, without SG-1 knowing it.



    I like your theory....but that is what everybody is expecting, right? To be honest, I think if they didn't end Ba'al's story with Continuum they would make a lot of fans angry. I thought the reason they were using Baal in this movie was so they could tie up his story....Since for the last two seasons of SG1 it was more or less Ba'al and the Ori...With Continuum that wraps up all those loose threads. At this point who knows what Baal is the real Ba'al...I just can't wait till Continuum finally comes out...

    Comment

      #3
      Spoiler:
      Which is how it's going to end. Eventually Ba'al himself doesn't even know anymore whether he's the real one or not, and gets insane to the point where he gets schizophrenia and hasmultiple personalites. Cool huh? Having multiple Ba'als in one body instead of having the same Ba'al in multiple bodies.









      J/k.



      Well, it isn't supposed to conclude the Ba'al arc. Cliff Simon said in an interview that the door would be left wide open for Ba'als return. Also, I hope they don't finally kill the real one(s) and all of their clones. He is just AWESOME.
      Mia: Don't you hate that?
      Vincent: Hate what?
      Mia: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?
      Vincent: I don't know. That's a good question.
      Mia: That's when you know you've found somebody really special: you can just shut the f*** up for a minute and comfortably share silence.
      - Pulp Fiction

      Comment

        #4
        I think Ba'als' a great villian, character and asset to SG1 and the whole franchise, but for the sake of the fans that crave some closure, I think they should either make Ba'al live, but never able to do anything again, or kill him and let his story end once and for all, like the Ark Of Truth did for the Ori story. Then maybe they could have a refrsh with the SG1 side of the Franchise.

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by mckay's momma View Post
          I think Ba'als' a great villian, character and asset to SG1 and the whole franchise, but for the sake of the fans that crave some closure, I think they should either make Ba'al live, but never able to do anything again, or kill him and let his story end once and for all, like the Ark Of Truth did for the Ori story. Then maybe they could have a refrsh with the SG1 side of the Franchise.
          I agree, since he has knowledge of time-travelling he'll be a continuous threat to Earth, he must die...

          Comment

            #6
            Indeed, although he was and is awesome in s9 and s10, and no doubt will be in Continuum, part of me wishes they had stopped after season 8. His ending in that season, and his intended ending in the series, although an open one, was perfect for the character imo. His entire fleet defeated, and Bra'tac confronting him after which Ba'al laughs and beams away. In the next episode he returns to Anubis, who isn't exactly happy of Ba'als betrayal. Ba'al remains on Delmak as the last System Lord, out there, but powerless.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhdpbq7mE5A - wow, Anubis is so evil, he makes Ba'al look like a hero...
            Mia: Don't you hate that?
            Vincent: Hate what?
            Mia: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?
            Vincent: I don't know. That's a good question.
            Mia: That's when you know you've found somebody really special: you can just shut the f*** up for a minute and comfortably share silence.
            - Pulp Fiction

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by TBA View Post
              Indeed, although he was and is awesome in s9 and s10, and no doubt will be in Continuum, part of me wishes they had stopped after season 8. His ending in that season, and his intended ending in the series, although an open one, was perfect for the character imo. His entire fleet defeated, and Bra'tac confronting him after which Ba'al laughs and beams away. In the next episode he returns to Anubis, who isn't exactly happy of Ba'als betrayal. Ba'al remains on Delmak as the last System Lord, out there, but powerless.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhdpbq7mE5A - wow, Anubis is so evil, he makes Ba'al look like a hero...

              When you first see Ba'al, he seems like any other power hungry, god-wanna-be like the rest of the Goa'uld...but there is a lot of humour and passion (for himself and universe domination) that made Ba'al kind of durable, maybe thats why he lasted so long on the show. But I really, really hope his story is the end of his chapter...but I wouldn't be against seeing a clone of Ba'al in a future SG1 movie, or pop up in Atlantis, just as long as I know they got the real one is probably good enough. Cliff Simon is a great actor, so maybe they could think of bringing a ba'al clone over to Atlantis...depending on how Continuum goes for the Ba'al character/s....but as I write this, that seems kind of tacky, sometimes you just have to let a story and actor/character go.

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by mckay's momma View Post
                When you first see Ba'al, he seems like any other power hungry, god-wanna-be like the rest of the Goa'uld...but there is a lot of humour and passion (for himself and universe domination) that made Ba'al kind of durable, maybe thats why he lasted so long on the show. But I really, really hope his story is the end of his chapter...but I wouldn't be against seeing a clone of Ba'al in a future SG1 movie, or pop up in Atlantis, just as long as I know they got the real one is probably good enough. Cliff Simon is a great actor, so maybe they could think of bringing a ba'al clone over to Atlantis...depending on how Continuum goes for the Ba'al character/s....but as I write this, that seems kind of tacky, sometimes you just have to let a story and actor/character go.
                As a Ba'al fan, and a Cliff Simon fan who was one of the very fortunate 20 people to see the Continuum screening, Cliff is accurate. There is a door open for the character to return. And I really hope that TPTB use it. Cliff is an awesome actor. It would be wonderful to see him continue in the Stargate franchise, whatever direction it takes.
                Visit me on http://wormholeriders.com/

                Comment

                  #9
                  Lucky you!

                  I wouldn't mind seeing Cliff show up in Atlantis once or twice. They could even make him a regular on SGU

                  Although, it makes me wonder (not sure if you are allowed to tell it), is it explained how exactly he manages to do it? And with 'the door is open', does Cliff mean it on the Ford-open door way (he could be out there or he could have exploded on that Hive ship), or on the end of s8-way (he's still out there, but powerless)?

                  What makes me love this Ba'al character is that he is the typical Goa'uld, but then again so much not. He was (and still a bit is) the god-wannabe, but he doesn't want to become that god, he wants to use it. He has also honor, as seen in Abyss, and unlike any other Goa'uld a sense of humour. And if it's good for him, he helps SG-1 too. Similar like the Todd character on SGA.
                  Mia: Don't you hate that?
                  Vincent: Hate what?
                  Mia: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?
                  Vincent: I don't know. That's a good question.
                  Mia: That's when you know you've found somebody really special: you can just shut the f*** up for a minute and comfortably share silence.
                  - Pulp Fiction

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by TBA View Post
                    Lucky you!

                    I wouldn't mind seeing Cliff show up in Atlantis once or twice. They could even make him a regular on SGU

                    Although, it makes me wonder (not sure if you are allowed to tell it), is it explained how exactly he manages to do it? And with 'the door is open', does Cliff mean it on the Ford-open door way (he could be out there or he could have exploded on that Hive ship), or on the end of s8-way (he's still out there, but powerless)?

                    What makes me love this Ba'al character is that he is the typical Goa'uld, but then again so much not. He was (and still a bit is) the god-wannabe, but he doesn't want to become that god, he wants to use it. He has also honor, as seen in Abyss, and unlike any other Goa'uld a sense of humour. And if it's good for him, he helps SG-1 too. Similar like the Todd character on SGA.

                    Exactly. And, no, Ba'al is not in a Ford-character situation. I can't tell you what happens, but it was a pleasant surprise for me.

                    By the way, if you want to see what else Cliff is up to, please check out: http://www.aurorisentertainment.com
                    Visit me on http://wormholeriders.com/

                    Comment

                      #11
                      I think it would be cool if you found out who the human is that Ba'al is in control of. You know, the man - Ba'al is the goa'uld inside that body - we know Sarah (I think that is her name) became Osiris, and that Apophis's host was a scribe in Ancient Egypt, so I wonder who or what 'Ba'al' really is, and what his story is. Maybe if that isn't covered in Continuum, they could do that Atlantis, or another SG1 MOVIE.

                      If that was a reason for continuing Ba'al's story in the franchise, then I would be very happy with it. Plus it gives a talented actor like Cliff Simon another layer, or persona to play...

                      P.S ARTIC GODDESS - YOU ARE SO LUCKY TO HAVE SEEN 'CONTINUUM' Be honest, is it as good as I hope it is? (In terms of Character/Arc development, character usage, special effects, actor performance etc?) I'm not asking for any spoilers, but, can you give me any clue to how Ba'al goes back in time...

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Arctic Goddess View Post
                        As a Ba'al fan, and a Cliff Simon fan who was one of the very fortunate 20 people to see the Continuum screening, Cliff is accurate. There is a door open for the character to return. And I really hope that TPTB use it. Cliff is an awesome actor. It would be wonderful to see him continue in the Stargate franchise, whatever direction it takes.
                        Spoiler:
                        They remove the symbiote and the human host goes along his life... and his eyes glow.

                        Don't tell me I'm right.
                        I will rule the world... and find that truly good cup of coffee.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by mckay's momma View Post
                          I think it would be cool if you found out who the human is that Ba'al is in control of. You know, the man - Ba'al is the goa'uld inside that body - we know Sarah (I think that is her name) became Osiris, and that Apophis's host was a scribe in Ancient Egypt, so I wonder who or what 'Ba'al' really is, and what his story is. Maybe if that isn't covered in Continuum, they could do that Atlantis, or another SG1 MOVIE.

                          If that was a reason for continuing Ba'al's story in the franchise, then I would be very happy with it. Plus it gives a talented actor like Cliff Simon another layer, or persona to play...

                          P.S ARTIC GODDESS - YOU ARE SO LUCKY TO HAVE SEEN 'CONTINUUM' Be honest, is it as good as I hope it is? (In terms of Character/Arc development, character usage, special effects, actor performance etc?) I'm not asking for any spoilers, but, can you give me any clue to how Ba'al goes back in time...

                          To tell you the truth, as soon as the credits began to role at the end of the movie, I wanted to shout out, "Play it again!" It was THAT good. The story-line is tight and the actors did a terrific job. Brad Wright did an amazing job of writing the movie.

                          Originally posted by Amakusa View Post
                          Spoiler:
                          They remove the symbiote and the human host goes along his life... and his eyes glow.

                          Don't tell me I'm right.
                          I'd love to see a story with the Ba'al host. It's the one area of the Stargate franchise that they really have not explored at all. A host with all of Ba'al's memories would be a very useful person to keep around. He'd know things that could be of value. Since Ba'al was supposed to be a strategist and not another set of muscles (he had Jaffa for that), I could see him having a major part in a new series.
                          Visit me on http://wormholeriders.com/

                          Comment

                            #14
                            I don't know about Baa'l's host. Just how old is it? Remember what happenned to Apophis' host when he died?

                            Comment

                              #15
                              When Apophis died, yes. When a symbiote dies, it makes a poison so that the host dies as well. In the movie Ba'al is intended to be removed, however.
                              Mia: Don't you hate that?
                              Vincent: Hate what?
                              Mia: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?
                              Vincent: I don't know. That's a good question.
                              Mia: That's when you know you've found somebody really special: you can just shut the f*** up for a minute and comfortably share silence.
                              - Pulp Fiction

                              Comment

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