PDA

View Full Version : "International" Expedition



The Suicidal Goldfish
April 28th, 2008, 01:11 PM
It's been gone into in quite some detail but what's the general consensus on the Forum about the balance of the "international" contingent?

It seems to me that there is a distinct lack of non-Americans on the show. We've had Grodin and Carson who were Brits, a Czech (Radek), a Chinese technician, a couple of Euro-troops. Besides Rodney and Chuck-nician, it's almost exclusively American otherwise.

A bit disappointing in my humble opinion.

And it'd also be nice to have GENUINE nationals portraying their nations. I mean David Hewlett is a Brit, why was he pitched as a Canadian? I know the ball was rolling on that one back when he appeared on SG1 all those years back, but.....

Discuss...?

sueKay
April 28th, 2008, 01:17 PM
It's trek-syndrome all over again.

remember in Star Trek, 4 out of the 5 greatest captains were American, and Starfleet wasn't even an earthbound organisation.

jenks
April 28th, 2008, 01:24 PM
It's disappointing I agree, it would be good if some of the all female team weren't American but I aren't holding out much hope.

SGFerrit
April 28th, 2008, 01:34 PM
It's trek-syndrome all over again.

remember in Star Trek, 4 out of the 5 greatest captains were American, and Starfleet wasn't even an earthbound organisation.

Yes, but the greatest one was Fench (and played by a Brit):D

The Suicidal Goldfish
April 28th, 2008, 01:47 PM
I didn't know Sisko was a French name....:P

SGFerrit
April 28th, 2008, 02:10 PM
I didn't know Sisko was a French name....:P

Aww, I think you're getting your captains all mixed up:(

Anyway, where's that topic gone?;)

Korean_Turtle87
April 28th, 2008, 02:26 PM
i've seen a german soldier on atlantis. Also, America is kind of the Superpower in both the world and Stargate Ops. It's not at all surprising that most personell are supposedly American

Falcon Horus
April 28th, 2008, 02:32 PM
...America is kind of the Superpower in the world...

That's what the US likes to believe, yes. Doesn't mean they should do the same in what is supposed to be an INTERNATIONAL expedition.

rielgenius1688
April 28th, 2008, 04:09 PM
The fact of the matter is that, judging by real world International thingys, America would almost certainly be supplying the vast majority of funding to the expedition, and so likely have a proportional amount of influence.

Falcon Horus
April 28th, 2008, 04:25 PM
The fact of the matter is that, judging by real world International thingys, America would almost certainly be supplying the vast majority of funding to the expedition, and so likely have a proportional amount of influence.

And that means that all the main characters have to be US-citizens? :S Or the majority anyway.

Jumper_One
April 28th, 2008, 04:26 PM
The fact of the matter is that, judging by real world International thingys, America would almost certainly be supplying the vast majority of funding to the expedition, and so likely have a proportional amount of influence.

it also depends on the resources the other countries are willing to commit to such an expedition

jenks
April 28th, 2008, 04:27 PM
The fact of the matter is that, judging by real world International thingys, America would almost certainly be supplying the vast majority of funding to the expedition, and so likely have a proportional amount of influence.

Why would they? The EU has a bigger economy than the US but there are no where near as many Europeans as there are Americans...

Detox
April 28th, 2008, 05:06 PM
It's been gone into in quite some detail but what's the general consensus on the Forum about the balance of the "international" contingent?

It seems to me that there is a distinct lack of non-Americans on the show. We've had Grodin and Carson who were Brits, a Czech (Radek), a Chinese technician, a couple of Euro-troops. Besides Rodney and Chuck-nician, it's almost exclusively American otherwise.

A bit disappointing in my humble opinion.

And it'd also be nice to have GENUINE nationals portraying their nations. I mean David Hewlett is a Brit, why was he pitched as a Canadian? I know the ball was rolling on that one back when he appeared on SG1 all those years back, but.....

Discuss...?

David' Hewlett's a Canadian... he was PITCHED as a Canadian because that's who he is.

JRDTECH
April 28th, 2008, 06:27 PM
Why would they? The EU has a bigger economy than the US but there are no where near as many Europeans as there are Americans...

Why do you say they would provide more funding? Are there any examples where the EU has out spent the US on something with potential military or space applications? Furthermore, the US funds the SGC to run the Stargate, what was it $6 billion just to keep the lights on? And the US is the only nation that has spaceships that can reach Atlantis. The Russian ship (actually U.S. funded and built ship) was destroyed. My point is without the US there is no expedition at all and being that the US has spend money and lives over the past decade obtaining these technologies and locating Atlantis it would make sense they the US have a bigger representation.

ykickamoocow
April 28th, 2008, 06:46 PM
Why do you say they would provide more funding? Are there any examples where the EU has out spent the US on something with potential military or space applications? Furthermore, the US funds the SGC to run the Stargate, what was it $6 billion just to keep the lights on? And the US is the only nation that has spaceships that can reach Atlantis. The Russian ship (actually U.S. funded and built ship) was destroyed. My point is without the US there is no expedition at all and being that the US has spend money and lives over the past decade obtaining these technologies and locating Atlantis it would make sense they the US have a bigger representation.

Yes but the Americans obtained those things by stealing the Stargate from the Germans who also stole it from Egypt. You cant say it is America's technology as they only got that technology by using a allien device which they kepted hidden from the rest of the world.

As for your funding comment why would the EU want to spend billions of dollars on a pointless space programme (im talking real world here) when essentially all they will be doing is sending afew men and women into orbit. Its a complete waste of money which could be used for better things. Now compare that to the Stargate Universe where im sure the EU countries would be willing to spend huge amounts of money to build intergalactic warships and would certaonly pay their fair share for the Atlantis Exhibition as that would have tangible rewards of obtaining advanced allien technology.

Bobby
April 29th, 2008, 01:59 AM
Your saying that the US should be in charge of everything and your dead wrong...In reality the US has one of the worse special forces units in the world so it would make more sense to put solders from other parts of the world in it than just America. And I don't see how there doctors could be any better. The US only spends more money on military stuff than the EU because they are too worried about staying the major superpower in the world anyway.

And JRDTECH u say that the Americans have everything like the spaceships and everything but i just want you to think for a minute about who actually owns the stargate...I think its the Russian's so u can't just throw them out of the equation. And talking about the bc-304's, the American's only have all of them is because they don't share. The only time they did was to trade for the stargate in season 9.

It's just the writers showing a false representation of American superiority through stargate.

And when your talking about where actors come from the actor who plays Carson Beckett is American...Just thought I would let u know that...He also played Catherine Langford's husband in Torment of Tantalus (in the flashbacks).

ijffdrie
April 29th, 2008, 02:39 AM
well, nicole de boer is a dutch cactress, hopefully shell play a dutch person

and i believe that the europeans have put at least as much money as america in the ISS(i could be wrong)

jenks
April 29th, 2008, 05:08 AM
Why do you say they would provide more funding? Are there any examples where the EU has out spent the US on something with potential military or space applications? Furthermore, the US funds the SGC to run the Stargate, what was it $6 billion just to keep the lights on? And the US is the only nation that has spaceships that can reach Atlantis. The Russian ship (actually U.S. funded and built ship) was destroyed. My point is without the US there is no expedition at all and being that the US has spend money and lives over the past decade obtaining these technologies and locating Atlantis it would make sense they the US have a bigger representation.

The Atlantis expedition is funded by the IOA, and so is a big chunk of the SGC budget too.

gkyun
April 29th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Y'know, just because the Expedition is multi-national in substance doesn't mean every participating country have to send somebody to Atlantis.

Some countries like France and Britain could work on the Antarctic Outpost instead, or focus their resources on studying and developing alien technologies in the comfort of their own home countries since all the stuff learned in Atlantis have to be shared amongst the members equally anyway.

ShadowMaat
April 29th, 2008, 11:14 PM
I figure it's a pretty accurate depiction of how an American organization- particularly the military- might define "international:" all the major roles are filled primarily by Americans. ;) Doesn't mean it's "fair" or "balanced" but I think it's realistic (for a given value of "real" of course).

Would it be nice to see more of an international mix? I think so. Would it be nice to see them in positions of power? Sure. Do I think that's likely to happen? Hell, no!

Technically speaking, the makeup of the primary team only contains one American: Sheppard. Given that two of the others are aliens that just leaves you with McKay, the Canadian, and Canucks have the unfortunate tendency to be lumped with Americans as being "the same." I can even understand that argument... to a degree. Certainly making him Canadian is the "safest" way to make the expedition seem more "international" without making any major sacrifices (and no, I'm not exactly sure what there'd be to sacrifice).

While I know it would never happen, I still think it'd be really interesting to have something happen to McKay so that Zelenka would be forced to step to the plate. I dearly love the character and I think he'd definitely add to the international feel some fans seem to crave.

For a while the CMO was Scottish, although I believe Keller is distinctly American, yes? That could be one place where the writers failed to take advantage of the possibilities, especially now that they're bumping her up to full-time status. I don't know what Jewel's skills are when it comes to accents (although apparently even that wouldn't have been "good enough" for some if she isn't actually from the country of origin), but then again, it's TPTB who cast her when they could have chosen someone... what? With a legitimate foreign accent? Or even legitimately foreign? ;) Who knows, maybe the next time they decide to kill off the doctor we'll wind up with a German. Or some put-upon Chinese guy that McKay can constantly refer to as being Japanese ("Oh, like there's a difference!"). Or a stereotypical hot-blooded Latino. Or Latina, actually, given TPTB's apparent preference for hot chicks. :rolleyes:

Anyway, all that really leaves is the leader of Atlantis and that will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be held by an American. Even if Atlantis keeps changing leaders as often as some people change their underwear, it'll always be a steady progression of American candidates because, "international" or not, it's still an American-based project.

There just isn't much else left in terms of major roles. Even if you killed off Sheppard (and assuming the show survived the nuclear holocaust that would ensue from that decision) he'd undoubtedly be replaced by another American soldier, particularly now that they've dropped the pretense of it being a "civilian" operation and have gone full-bore military. *sigh*

If you see a flag patch from your country, consider yourself lucky, 'cos that's about as close as you're likely to get to seeing anything international about Atlantis. ;)

ShadowMaat
April 29th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Fortunately, this isn't about who hates whom, it's about Atlantis.

Save the political BS for the OT flame wars the mods love so much. ;)

ykickamoocow
April 29th, 2008, 11:58 PM
[snip]

How do you figure. We all just want the international contingent to be slightly more international an slightly less American.

Falcon Horus
April 30th, 2008, 05:12 AM
If you see a flag patch from your country, consider yourself lucky, 'cos that's about as close as you're likely to get to seeing anything international about Atlantis. ;)

Flag-spotting is fun... But still, a little more variety in the speaking parts would be nice too.

Falcon Horus
April 30th, 2008, 09:50 AM
It's always nice when a mod removes all your posts without so much as a PM with a reason.

We've all had that happening to us one time or another. You can always ask them politely why it was removed.

jelgate
April 30th, 2008, 10:43 AM
Flag-spotting is fun... But still, a little more variety in the speaking parts would be nice too.

Ever seen a Belgium flag:P

Falcon Horus
April 30th, 2008, 10:54 AM
Ever seen a Belgium flag:P

Yes, I have.

101 - The Rising, when they step through the gate from the SGC to Atlantis, on both sides.
404 - Doppelganger, when Ronon - Rodney - Keller & Teyla are in the cafeteria, one comes walking past.

Smallz
April 30th, 2008, 11:13 AM
Well for one its a show that is directed and written by US and Canadian writers and directors. Also I am sure in the show the US is contributing most of the funds and resources. You cant count the EU because I would also bet that not all the countries in the EU know about the stargate. Plus I am sure some is following the russian path. Contribute little and gain blueprints to all the new toys.

GoSpikey
May 2nd, 2008, 08:03 AM
Well for one its a show that is directed and written by US and Canadian writers and directors. Also I am sure in the show the US is contributing most of the funds and resources. You cant count the EU because I would also bet that not all the countries in the EU know about the stargate. Plus I am sure some is following the russian path. Contribute little and gain blueprints to all the new toys.

Pssst. It's on telly over here... We know! ;)

jenks
May 2nd, 2008, 08:53 AM
Well for one its a show that is directed and written by US and Canadian writers and directors. Also I am sure in the show the US is contributing most of the funds and resources. You cant count the EU because I would also bet that not all the countries in the EU know about the stargate. Plus I am sure some is following the russian path. Contribute little and gain blueprints to all the new toys.

Well these ones definitely do, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that they all do...

Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Italy
Netherlands
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom

Gaeth
May 4th, 2008, 06:51 PM
I, as an American would like to see more prominent foreign expedition members. In the context of the show it makes sense that the U.S would try to put as many Americans on Atlantis as possible, but there should still be more variety. I've often wondered why they didn't use one of earth's ships to take a gate and DHD from an uninhabited planet then give the Russians their gate back.

In any event I'd certainly like to see more people from the birthplaces of my favorite music: Norway, Sweden, and Finland.

Also with the rise of China and India you'd think they'd have a bigger role on Atlantis too.

With some amount of guilty pleasure I admit I'd also like to see a tall mustached engineer from Kazakhstan fumbling about. Apologies to the good people of Kazakhstan...

ykickamoocow
May 4th, 2008, 07:36 PM
I, as an American would like to see more prominent foreign expedition members. In the context of the show it makes sense that the U.S would try to put as many Americans on Atlantis as possible, but there should still be more variety. I've often wondered why they didn't use one of earth's ships to take a gate and DHD from an uninhabited planet then give the Russians their gate back.

In any event I'd certainly like to see more people from the birthplaces of my favorite music: Norway, Sweden, and Finland.

Also with the rise of China and India you'd think they'd have a bigger role on Atlantis too.

With some amount of guilty pleasure I admit I'd also like to see a tall mustached engineer from Kazakhstan fumbling about. Apologies to the good people of Kazakhstan...

India maybe but i dont think most of the countries involved with the Stargate would be too happy to give China advanced technology. Look what they do with the technology they already have.

AnnaBee
May 4th, 2008, 09:33 PM
For a while the CMO was Scottish, although I believe Keller is distinctly American, yes? That could be one place where the writers failed to take advantage of the possibilities, especially now that they're bumping her up to full-time status. I don't know what Jewel's skills are when it comes to accents (although apparently even that wouldn't have been "good enough" for some if she isn't actually from the country of origin), but then again, it's TPTB who cast her when they could have chosen someone... what? With a legitimate foreign accent? Or even legitimately foreign? ;) Who knows, maybe the next time they decide to kill off the doctor we'll wind up with a German. Or some put-upon Chinese guy that McKay can constantly refer to as being Japanese ("Oh, like there's a difference!"). Or a stereotypical hot-blooded Latino. Or Latina, actually, given TPTB's apparent preference for hot chicks. :rolleyes:

Keller was originally meant to be Canadian, wasn't she?
I always thought changing her to an American was kinda silly.

ShadowMaat
May 5th, 2008, 08:37 AM
I'm not sure having her be Canadian would have been much of an improvement for the Internationalists. French-Canadian, maybe, but Canucks and Americans seem pretty interchangeable in regards to the show and folks seem to be made Canadian just to give things an "international" feel and because, let's face it, most of 'em are Canadian, but it doesn't seem to go anywhere. If the political relationship between the US and Canada were to sour, I wonder if that would have any effect on Atlantis, particularly now that Woolsey's going to be in charge?

RowenaR
May 13th, 2008, 04:06 AM
Anyway, all that really leaves is the leader of Atlantis and that will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be held by an American.

And I don't see where anyone protested actively against this. Or at least I, for one, don't mind. The only thing I'd really like to see are a few more recurring characters or even only guest characters with a speaking part (I wouldn't even mind the character doing the red shirt exit ;)) that are from a non-English speaking country. Considering how many flags are usually walking around in the background it's a little... disappointing (not to say embarrassing...) that out of 8 (or something) main cast members/recurring characters only one is from a non-English speaking country.

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 04:21 AM
In reality the US has one of the worse special forces units in the world.

UK has the best navy and the SAS (equivalent: US Marines) just can't be beat! The SAS goes in hot, does their job and get out without a mention of media glorification unlike the US Marines.

Also I agree that it's time that more multi-nationals should be featured, i.e. have active speaking roles instead of just sitting extras.

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 04:33 AM
India maybe but i dont think most of the countries involved with the Stargate would be too happy to give China advanced technology. Look what they do with the technology they already have.

Doing what the US did a century ago maybe?

-----
Anyway, someone mentioned about the EU, countries in the EU are still independent, not all EU countries will know about the Stargate. It's a political alliance not a formation of a new country.

jenks
May 13th, 2008, 04:35 AM
UK has the best navy and the SAS (equivalent: US Marines) just can't be beat! The SAS goes in hot, does their job and get out without a mention of media glorification unlike the US Marines.

Also I agree that it's time that more multi-nationals should be featured, i.e. have active speaking roles instead of just sitting extras.

The US marines are by no means the US equivalent to the SAS, not even close.

RowenaR
May 13th, 2008, 04:56 AM
*nitpick

But if the EU citizens are there because the EU as an institution has an agreement with the US/is part of the IOA rather than several of its member countries then it's pretty save to say that all the member countries know about it.

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 05:06 AM
The US marines are by no means the US equivalent to the SAS, not even close.
If you say so. :)

Since they're both listed as "Special Forces".

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 05:08 AM
*nitpick

But if the EU citizens are there because the EU as an institution has an agreement with the US/is part of the IOA rather than several of its member countries then it's pretty save to say that all the member countries know about it.

Then, maybe the IOA is a department of the UN as well and every nation on this planet knows about the Stargate.

RowenaR
May 13th, 2008, 05:13 AM
Ah, but the EU is not a department of the UN (or did I interpret the "as well" wrong?). So in fact I think there are several countries who may not know. But considering the whole network of treaties, trade agreements, confederacies and all the other international relations that span the world (just think Commonwealth, EU, MERCOSUR, NAFTA...), it would be pretty probable that yes, by and by, at least a very large part of the world might learn about the Stargate programm. Not necessarily the population as a whole but at least the government institutions.

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 05:28 AM
I said the IOA itself as an entity could be a dept of the United Nations.

I think most Gov. Institutions know, like maybe to actively participate you (country) need to pay the IOA, if so, that could explain why only certain countries regardless of alliance are in Atlantis.

So far from the EU, I have seen the UK, Spain, Finland, Sweden, Germany and Czech Republic. But since, Atlantis could be like that of Antarctica, maybe all information is shared anyway.

RowenaR
May 13th, 2008, 05:37 AM
Yep, that was my second interpretation... which came to me when I'd already written the last posting... sorry for that.

Anyway, even if that wasn't the case (although it would make sense, at least in my head...), I think that the Stargate programm is bound to be known at least in the major industrial and threshold countries. If not now, then in a few years' time. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense at all.

BTW, if the Stargate programm would be funded mainly by the UN (which would be the consequence if the IOA was a part of the UN), then it would be even more inappropriate to give most of the roles (leading and other ones, I mean) to US American characters. Last time I checked, the US were one of the UN's chief debtors...





Okay, no more political BS, I swear. :D

And no, I don't hate the US (would I prefer US American shows to German shows, if I did?), I just wanted to point out what it could mean if the IOA was a part of the UN.

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 05:43 AM
ROFLMAO :D

Politics, aren't they a bloody pain!

I agree, it's time that the writers start bringing in more people from different nations. Stargate is based in Vancouver anyway, the place has just as many ethnic people compared to London, Paris, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Berlin, Toronto, Ottawa - so come on, hire them, they're just outside the studio gates!!!!!

RowenaR
May 13th, 2008, 05:48 AM
Having a job in politics, I always try to avoid them in private conversations, but I just can't. They just won't leave me alone, the little buggers :D

BTW, I remember there was a German scientist/tech in "Duet" who actually spoke German without an accent... give us back little scenes like that, oh mighty TPTB, if you can't at least give us other non-English recurring roles than Radek!

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 06:00 AM
Listening to that German lady, it was actually refreshing, than listening to Radek, no offence to him but maybe it's time we had Chinese Mandarin or Cantonese, French even, German or Welsh!

Welsh would be totally insane! :D

RowenaR
May 13th, 2008, 06:09 AM
SO voting for Welsh! :D That character could have great dialogues with Carson :D

JackHarkness_Hot
May 13th, 2008, 06:29 AM
I sense it's gonna be one of the dialogues that will have to be subtitled in order for Americans to understand :lol:

RowenaR
May 13th, 2008, 06:38 AM
And for everyone else who doesn't speak Welsh *smirk

But give us the Welsh, TPTB! Give it to us now!

g.o.d
May 13th, 2008, 08:37 AM
If you say so. :)

Since they're both listed as "Special Forces".

CAG is US equivalent to the SAS;)

jenks
May 13th, 2008, 04:16 PM
If you say so. :)

Since they're both listed as "Special Forces".

Delta Force would be an equivalent to the SAS.

g.o.d
May 14th, 2008, 06:36 AM
Delta Force would be an equivalent to the SAS.

indeed, Delta Force (=CAG) conducts missions similar to those attributed to the British Special Air Service (SAS), on which it was originally modeled and by which its founding was assisted...

Ikaros
July 30th, 2008, 12:19 PM
It's been gone into in quite some detail but what's the general consensus on the Forum about the balance of the "international" contingent?

It seems to me that there is a distinct lack of non-Americans on the show. We've had Grodin and Carson who were Brits, a Czech (Radek), a Chinese technician, a couple of Euro-troops. Besides Rodney and Chuck-nician, it's almost exclusively American otherwise.

A bit disappointing in my humble opinion.

And it'd also be nice to have GENUINE nationals portraying their nations. I mean David Hewlett is a Brit, why was he pitched as a Canadian? I know the ball was rolling on that one back when he appeared on SG1 all those years back, but.....

Discuss...?

Not that i like the fact that most people in an "international" expedition are americans, but this is an american show after all.
It is only natural, even though it is annoying that they always put an american as the lead of this (i'l say it again) international expedition.
If it was the real world, the IOA would not be mocked and portrayed as "a bunch of jercs who shouldn't mess with our expert work and our decisions".

Avenger
July 30th, 2008, 02:48 PM
If you say so. :)

Since they're both listed as "Special Forces".

The Marines do have special forces units (Force Recon), but not all US Marines are Force Recon.

starfox
July 30th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Given the number of foreign scientists in the U.S., it wouldn't be a stretch at all to have more non-American characters on the show. Just because the U.S. military may be doing the funding doesn't mean that all of the scientists they back are American-born. Plenty of people come to school here and then stay to work here. Heck, taking that into consideration, I'd expect way more doctors/scientists from Asia, South America, Africa and Eastern Europe than we've seen so far. So why not have more non-Americans? Bring on the Argentinians, Panamanians, Romanians, Kenyans, Nigerians, Pakistanis, Indians, Koreans, etc.

Also, I tend to think that the lack of international characters on the show isn't so much because the writers acknowledge the self-centered nature of America and our military, but because they just don't think to put that much of an effort into it. If they cast an actor who can do a nifty accent or is fluent in a foreign language they haven't yet used, super! If not, eh, whatever.

NKDietrich
July 30th, 2008, 06:43 PM
Why does it matter? Really, it's irrelevant to the story telling. A few people speaking with an accent they dont really have and that is barely believable wouldn't really add to Atlantis for me.

Also, pay closer attention. There have been people with a bunch of different flags on their arms. Just because they dont speak doesn't mean they aren't there. You can only have so many plot-relevant characters.

JohnDuh
July 31st, 2008, 06:39 AM
David' Hewlett's a Canadian... he was PITCHED as a Canadian because that's who he is.

Yeah born in England, grew up there and recently got married there.

JohnDuh
July 31st, 2008, 06:43 AM
Why does it matter?


Yes, that's why the powers that be created it. If they didn't really care about that they should just have said it was all american, and allowed mckay in as a special exception.



You can only have so many plot-relevant characters.

Indeed. "The Wire" had about 30.

starfox
July 31st, 2008, 08:36 AM
Yes, that's why the powers that be created it. If they didn't really care about that they should just have said it was all american, and allowed mckay in as a special exception.


True. Considering the fact that this is supposedly an international expedition and the leader was sent by an international committee, you think that we'd at least see a more varied collection of flag patches running around the base.

Nusku
July 31st, 2008, 08:38 AM
UK has the best navy and the SAS (equivalent: US Marines) just can't be beat! The SAS goes in hot, does their job and get out without a mention of media glorification unlike the US Marines.


The SAS would deffo have a unit on Atlantis. This show is so fake! :)

Jill_Ion
July 31st, 2008, 01:54 PM
I sense it's gonna be one of the dialogues that will have to be subtitled in order for Americans to understand :lol:

Or not. Depends.

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 10:27 AM
True. Considering the fact that this is supposedly an international expedition and the leader was sent by an international committee, you think that we'd at least see a more varied collection of flag patches running around the base.

I thought there were. Wasn't there a thread somewhere that counted out how many countries' flags were seen in the show?

Search (of "flag", "country", and "nation") turns up nothing, but I clearly remember it.

Mitchell82
August 1st, 2008, 10:51 AM
I agree that they don't showcase other nations that much on the show but I don't think it's that big of an issue though I do admit it is a minor oversight on tptb.

Falcon Horus
August 1st, 2008, 02:05 PM
I thought there were. Wasn't there a thread somewhere that counted out how many countries' flags were seen in the show?

Search (of "flag", "country", and "nation") turns up nothing, but I clearly remember it.

Try nationalities in Atlantis... and that search gives you 48 matches of which this is one:

Different nationalities in Atlantis (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26159)

;)

PG15
August 1st, 2008, 02:10 PM
Ah yes! Thanks! :D

Damn suffixes. ;)

So anyway, half way down that first page of that thread says there are at least 13 countries represented. That's pretty good, considering how many countries even know about the Stargate.

Oka
August 1st, 2008, 02:45 PM
It's been gone into in quite some detail but what's the general consensus on the Forum about the balance of the "international" contingent?

It seems to me that there is a distinct lack of non-Americans on the show. We've had Grodin and Carson who were Brits, a Czech (Radek), a Chinese technician, a couple of Euro-troops. Besides Rodney and Chuck-nician, it's almost exclusively American otherwise.

A bit disappointing in my humble opinion.

And it'd also be nice to have GENUINE nationals portraying their nations. I mean David Hewlett is a Brit, why was he pitched as a Canadian? I know the ball was rolling on that one back when he appeared on SG1 all those years back, but.....

Discuss...?
It's not supposed to be proportionate. Who started the Stargate program? America. Who ran it and defended earth? America. Who is reaping the benefits of America's efforts? The IOA nations. American tax payers funded the entire project. There SHOULD be an American majority and the leader should be American. The writers seem to agree with me =)

Ltcolshepjumper
August 1st, 2008, 03:19 PM
One, the IOA is not a part of the UN. Neither is the EU. The EU does not know about the Stargate program. Most of the world doesn't know. In fact, most of the nations do not know, regardless of the many international personnel. The Stargate was always American, never German. Germany had the DHD, which the Russians took. America funds most of it, started it, and continues to supply most of the manpower and equipment. And, I thought the US gave Russia a 304 in exchange for the stargate, so wouldn't that make it American now? I think the base needs to have more of an international feel. Regardless of the many patches, we need to hear them. At least in the background conversing in their respective languages. They don't have to have any sort of plot-centric role. And yes, the US is still a superpower, even though it has been diminished as of late.

jenks
August 1st, 2008, 03:32 PM
It's not supposed to be proportionate. Who started the Stargate program? America. Who ran it and defended earth? America. Who is reaping the benefits of America's efforts? The IOA nations. American tax payers funded the entire project. There SHOULD be an American majority and the leader should be American. The writers seem to agree with me =)

Why? Because the US took it upon itself to represent Earth without anyone else's consent? The expedition is supposed to be international, and is funded by and international organization, why the hell should the US have a position of power over any of the other nations represented?

VSS
August 1st, 2008, 03:43 PM
Why? Because the US took it upon itself to represent Earth without anyone else's consent? The expedition is supposed to be international, and is funded by and international organization, why the hell should the US have a position of power over any of the other nations represented?

Well, the primary reason is that the US has the expertise. Now, I'm not saying the Stargate program was run flawlessly, but that's how it happened. Heck, even the Russians ditched their gate after they realized it wasn't worth it, although it was nice to see them step up to the plate in Continuum, they did a good job there.

The secondary reason is that the US probably gives the most in funding, as it often does with many international efforts, such as the UN, international aid and relief of various kinds, and perhaps most pertinent, NATO.

If you wanna play, ya gotta pay. That's the way it goes.

jenks
August 1st, 2008, 04:08 PM
The IOA contributes 70% of the SGC's budget, and all of the Atlantis expeditions, not that it would make much difference if the US contributed more anyway, you don't see an American running the UN do you? And I don't see what expertise has to do with anything either, especially when you consider that for the majority of it's existence the expedition has been lead by Weir who had next to no experience, and Sheppard as the military commander, who had zero experience when the expedition was created. I understand why it's harder to get more characters from countries outside the US on the show from a production standpoint, but considering the expedition was advertised as an international one, something that would differentiate it from SG-1, I though the producers would put a bit more effort into staying true to the original premise, yet every new character seems to be American, which to me just seems like another chance wasted.

Oka
August 1st, 2008, 04:13 PM
Why? Because the US took it upon itself to represent Earth without anyone else's consent? The expedition is supposed to be international, and is funded by and international organization, why the hell should the US have a position of power over any of the other nations represented?
The U.S. started the program. The U.S. funded it. The U.S. took it upon itself to defend earth, just like it took upon itself to defend Europe from the Soviet Union after World War 2. The U.S. has lost hundreds of men and women and has billions of dollars invested in the program.

America also has the most experience in the Stargate program. As far as I am concerned Atlantis is U.S. territory since the Stargate there is linked with the one on earth. It's a matter of national security.

They never should've involved the "international community" in the first place.

jenks
August 1st, 2008, 04:28 PM
The U.S. started the program. The U.S. funded it. The U.S. took it upon itself to defend earth, just like it took upon itself to defend Europe from the Soviet Union after World War 2. The U.S. has lost hundreds of men and women and has billions of dollars invested in the program.

And you think that's the same as taking it upon itself to represent Earth behind the backs of the entire planet? The US put Earth in huge danger, and it was dumb luck for the most part that Earth wasn't wiped out. Would you really (hypothetically) want the US to carry on like that? Do you think that's an honourable way to behave? Personally I'd be ashamed if my country acted like that.



America also has the most experience in the Stargate program. As far as I am concerned Atlantis is U.S. territory since the Stargate there is linked with the one on earth. It's a matter of national security.

Well what can I say, you're wrong.


They never should've involved the "international community" in the first place.

They didn't have much choice in the matter.

Falcon Horus
August 1st, 2008, 04:46 PM
They never should've involved the "international community" in the first place.

Seeing as Antarctica belongs to no one but itself, and the Ancient outpost was located there (which they probably could have kept for themselves, though it wouldn't have lasted long I think), the expedition was international from the get go (by that time France, UK, China and Russia were well informed on the Stargate issue).

No land anywhere on the planet should take it upon themselves to represent an entire planet. There's no chance in hell that one nation represents all the opinions, or thoughts. Not even the US.

Oka
August 1st, 2008, 05:15 PM
And you think that's the same as taking it upon itself to represent Earth behind the backs of the entire planet? The US put Earth in huge danger, and it was dumb luck for the most part that Earth wasn't wiped out. Would you really (hypothetically) want the US to carry on like that? Do you think that's an honourable way to behave? Personally I'd be ashamed if my country acted like that.



Well what can I say, you're wrong.



They didn't have much choice in the matter.
Earth wasn't destroyed thanks to the men and women of the U.S. armed forces. The Stargate is a matter of U.S. national security. Earth isn't exactly a peaceful planet, America still has enemies on Earth itself as well as enemies from outside of Earth. Since the Stargate is on U.S. soil, yes it's in America's interest not to let Atlantis be taken over by enemies of the United States. That's one of the reasons why America should and will not cede authority of Atlantis to any other country. You may think that the IOA has authority but trust me it's just there to appease the other countries. In the end America still has complete control over the SG-C and Atlantis.

I know they didn't have a choice in whether or not to involve foreigners but it could've been handled differently. A lot of mistakes have been made obviously but with the complexity and uniqueness of the Stargate program that's inevitable. And considering the circumstances, I for one, think they've done a damn good job.

jenks
August 1st, 2008, 05:26 PM
Earth wasn't destroyed thanks to the men and women of the U.S. armed forces. The Stargate is a matter of U.S. national security. Earth isn't exactly a peaceful planet, America still has enemies on Earth itself as well as enemies from outside of Earth. Since the Stargate is on U.S. soil, yes it's in America's interest not to let Atlantis be taken over by enemies of the United States. That's one of the reasons why America should and will not cede authority of Atlantis to any other country. You may think that the IOA has authority but trust me it's just there to appease the other countries. In the end America still has complete control over the SG-C and Atlantis.

I know they didn't have a choice in whether or not to involve foreigners but it could've been handled differently. A lot of mistakes have been made obviously but with the complexity and uniqueness of the Stargate program that's inevitable. And considering the circumstances, I for one, think they've done a damn good job.

This is all just in your imagination. Atlantis isn't under the control of the US, and it never has been. The IOA controls Atlantis, that's been made clear.

jelgate
August 2nd, 2008, 11:28 AM
I thought politcs were only allowed in off-topic.:P

TPTB try to give out different flags to show an international feel but from a prodcution standpoint its impossible to get many foreign actors to appear.

Falcon Horus
August 2nd, 2008, 11:33 AM
TPTB try to give out different flags to show an international feel but from a prodcution standpoint its impossible to get many foreign actors to appear.

They don't need to be foreign. I'm sure Canada has a multitude on people who have ancestors in the old homestead (Europe, Russia, China, ...) and who could easily pass from someone from those lands, accent included, even it sounds a little off.

I understand that talking one's mother tongue (character-wise) would be problematic since it would require subtitling for the poor one-language people.

starfox
August 2nd, 2008, 12:39 PM
I understand that talking one's mother tongue (character-wise) would be problematic since it would require subtitling for the poor one-language people.

Not necessarily; they never subtitle when Zelenka speaks Czech. It's something thrown in for flavor. The audience gets the gist of it, and if we really want to know, someone's usually translated for us here on GW.

Falcon Horus
August 2nd, 2008, 01:25 PM
Not necessarily; they never subtitle when Zelenka speaks Czech. It's something thrown in for flavor. The audience gets the gist of it, and if we really want to know, someone's usually translated for us here on GW.

Yes, but usually he's saying in Czech what would be bleeped out in English. :p It's a nice way to circumvent (sp?) that problem.


You're not making any sense. Are all my points void because I haven't spoken to any people that were actually there? I am sorry that I have not had a chance to do that. And you're still not answering me who they are and where they're from. Also, speaking to single individuals won't give you a broad picture because well, everyone has a different point of view.

I am making perfect sense, as in it depends who you ask whether the US will come out looking good, not so good, or downright bad. That's what I meant. And you were talking about the Albanians, while another group of people might have said the complete opposite.


I'm going to ask that we end this conversation, seeing as it's horribly, horribly OT.

Or take it to PM.

AutumnDream
August 2nd, 2008, 01:33 PM
i've seen a german soldier on atlantis. Also, America is kind of the Superpower in both the world

Not really. Their importance is declining quickly. Five or six years ago you could have said that, but economists are looking towards the European Union for all their hegemony needs nowadays.

I imagine the lack of international expedition members can be chalked up to the people coming to auditions not having the appropriate accents.

Falcon Horus
August 2nd, 2008, 01:39 PM
I imagine the lack of international expedition members can be chalked up to the people coming to auditions not having the appropriate accents.

Or like Nykl can speak the tongue when the situation requires it, and in the meantime we all learn how to curse in Czech. :p

Merlin1701
August 3rd, 2008, 02:25 AM
gkyun is in fact correct.

The IOA has taken over everything, which in my opinion is a bad thing. They give the green light on Stargate missions from earth and missions undertaken by earth vessels not to mention their hands in the cookie jar that is Atlantis.

As for America being the major super power in real world dynamics that’s slipping fast as China and the Arab emirates takes over, let’s not focus on that though.

I would like to see more co-operation on an international scale ship wise.

Having an off world construction yard to build more ships.
New ships crewed by different countries that would all follow the same rules under a single command unit for example 5 top brass admiral/ general/ air marshals.

TameFarrar
August 14th, 2008, 10:52 AM
Hello,
Here is the TOPIC of this thread
It seems to me that there is a distinct lack of non-Americans on the show. We've had Grodin and Carson who were Brits, a Czech (Radek), a Chinese technician, a couple of Euro-troops

This TOPIC is in regards to a FICTIONAL TV SHOW. Lets try to remember that when we post.

Thank You
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator