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Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Hopefully this thread hasn't been made, hard to get an accurate search with the minimum of four letters per word..... :P

Any other fans of this series out there? Who is your favourite POV?


Mine is Brienne, and I hope she lives after A Feast For Crows..... :S

Oranos
April 25th, 2008, 07:50 PM
I've been meaning to read the series, but with so many others on my list...

How many books does the series span so far? In your opinion, how does this match up to some of the other great pieces of fantasy?

I guess this means I don't have a favorite POV. :p

Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 08:16 PM
I've been meaning to read the series, but with so many others on my list...

How many books does the series span so far? In your opinion, how does this match up to some of the other great pieces of fantasy?

I guess this means I don't have a favorite POV. :p
Forget the list. Go straight to this one. :D

Four books of seven so far (originally six, but the fourth/fifth book was going to be so big - I read somewhere that it was estimated at 1600-2000 pages - that the publisher refused to print it, so it was split and re-written), the fifth hopefully coming this fall. And it blows all other fantasy out of the water (yes, even LotR, which I love).

This series is probably the best thing I have ever read. Especially the third book (A Storm of Swords), which is longer than the entire LotR trilogy put together, and is an absolute masterpiece.

It's so good that even though I only finished reading the fourth one about a month ago, I've already started buying my own copies and reading the series from the beginning again..... :P

I knew stashing away those Christmas gift cards would pay off. :P

Oranos
April 25th, 2008, 08:29 PM
Forget the list. Go straight to this one. :D

I don't know about that; my list is pretty good. ;)


And it blows all other fantasy out of the water (yes, even LotR, which I love).

Lies. I don't think anything will beat LotR, WoT, MB... Maybe a close fourth. :p


This series is probably the best thing I have ever read. Especially the third book (A Storm of Swords), which is longer than the entire LotR trilogy put together, and is an absolute masterpiece.

Heh. I thought you were to trying to encourage me to read this ... you really think I can carry that monster home? :p

Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 08:37 PM
I don't know about that; my list is pretty good. ;)
How do you know if you haven't read it yet. ;)

Lies. I don't think anything will beat LotR, WoT, MB... Maybe a close fourth. :pI'm hesitant to start Wheel of Time now (which I was going to before I read this series, but I was convinced to read this first (by a fan of both) for which I am EXTREMELY glad). Thing is, everything else just pales in comparison now.....Martin's writing/plotting/characters are superb. Second to none, I promise. :P

Heh. I thought you were to trying to encourage me to read this ... you really think I can carry that monster home? :pI carried the paperback in my bag everywhere I went while I was reading it. Weight/size, not an excuse. :D What are a few extra pounds (not even) compared to gaining the wisdom that the words hold? :D

Oranos
April 25th, 2008, 08:49 PM
How do you know if you haven't read it yet. ;)

Because I have read WoT -- it is that incredible. I'm only fairly confident about the others. ;)



I'm hesitant to start Wheel of Time now (which I was going to before I read this series, but I was convinced to read this first for which I am EXTREMELY glad). Thing is, everything else just pales in comparison now.....Martin's writing/plotting/characters are superb. Second to none, I promise. :P

Second to WoT. :p

Which you shouldn't start reading now. WoT isn't just about the heroes; it's about the world. There's so many characters, foreshadowing books in advance, intricate plots, it'll be too hard to keep up with, I think. Jordan is the master of all.

But, that said, with such a shining recommendation, this might be moving up my list a little, somewhere around second.



I carried the paperback in my bag everywhere I went while I was reading it. Weight/size, not an excuse. :D What are a few extra pounds (not even) compared to gaining the wisdom that the words hold? :D

I'm hesitant to ask how big the bag was... :p

Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 08:59 PM
Second to WoT. :p

Which you shouldn't start reading now. WoT isn't just about the heroes; it's about the world. There's so many characters, foreshadowing books in advance, intricate plots, it'll be too hard to keep up with, I think. Jordan is the master of all.

But, that said, with such a shining recommendation, this might be moving up my list a little, somewhere around second. I was recommended this by a Wheel of Time fan. But she told me to read this series first because it's the best thing she's ever read- and this is coming from a librarian! :D

And you don't know complicated plots/massive cast of complex characters/foreshadowing books down the line until you've read Ice and Fire. I guarantee. And Martin makes it look so frakking elegant! :D

Second to what? :P

I'm hesitant to ask how big the bag was... :p
Not that big. Paperback book = compact enough to carry. No matter how many pages. :P

Oranos
April 25th, 2008, 09:10 PM
I was recommended this by a Wheel of Time fan. But she told me to read this series first because it's the best thing she's ever read- and this is coming from a librarian! :D

Well I'll be a published author soon. That has to count for something. :p


And you don't know complicated plots/massive cast of complex characters/foreshadowing books down the line until you've read Ice and Fire. I guarantee. And Martin makes it look so frakking elegant! :D

And Robert Jordan doesn't? Trust me, Jordan could leave your head spinning round for days with the most unimaginable thing foreshadowing something books down the line. (This without giving away spoilers, which isn't so easy.)


Second to what? :P

The Wheel of Time. Haven't I mentioned that yet? :p

In all seriousness, I don't think this is going to be resolved until we've both read the other series. Of course, I'm always right, so I don't imagine being wrong here. :p


Not that big. Paperback book = compact enough to carry. No matter how many pages. :P

I was thinking purse. Or should I have been thinking backpack? With you dragging it down the street... :p

Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 09:44 PM
Well I'll be a published author soon. That has to count for something. :pIn seriousness?

And Robert Jordan doesn't? Trust me, Jordan could leave your head spinning round for days with the most unimaginable thing foreshadowing something books down the line. (This without giving away spoilers, which isn't so easy.)
Upping the head spinning timeline to months, hehe. :P

In all seriousness, I don't think this is going to be resolved until we've both read the other series. Of course, I'm always right, so I don't imagine being wrong here. :p
Nah, when it comes to books, I can't be wrong. I'll read it, be proven right. ;)

I was thinking purse. Or should I have been thinking backpack? With you dragging it down the street... :pTry something in between, shoulder bag (not much bigger than a purse). No dragging. :D

Oranos
April 25th, 2008, 09:51 PM
In seriousness?

Hopefully. Making some revisions/rewriting/editing to my novel, then send it out, and...back to hopefully.


Upping the head spinning timeline to months, hehe. :P

Years then. Beat that. :p

No, no, forever. Just so you can't beat me. ;)


Nah, when it comes to books, I can't be wrong. I'll read it, be proven right. ;)

I have a suggestion. We consider these two great works equal.

No, for real. :p



Try something in between, shoulder bag (not much bigger than a purse). No dragging. :D

Ah, very clever. Make your boyfriend lug it. :p

Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 10:05 PM
Hopefully. Making some revisions/rewriting/editing to my novel, then send it out, and...back to hopefully. Congrats on finishing it then!

Years then. Beat that. :p

No, no, forever. Just so you can't beat me. ;)Forever and then time travel back to the beginning of the universe. Making my forever longer. :D


I have a suggestion. We consider these two great works equal.

No, for real. :pSeems the solution, doesn't it. :P

Ah, very clever. Make your boyfriend lug it. :pI'm not a wimp. :mad::P

Oranos
April 25th, 2008, 10:10 PM
Congrats on finishing it then!

Might take a long while for it to be finished. I'm lazy (sorta). And in college. :p


Forever and then time travel back to the beginning of the universe. Making my forever longer. :D

I'll forever your forever by the same means. :cool:


Seems the solution, doesn't it. :P

Unless you want to go on like this forever. :p


I'm not a wimp. :mad::P

Translation: I don't have a boyfriend. :p

Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I'll forever your forever by the same means. :cool:

Unless you want to go on like this forever. :pI yawn at the thought, when I already know that my victory is a foregone conclusion. :P


Translation: I don't have a boyfriend. :pIndeed I do not. But no one carries my stuff for me, regardless. If I'm going to pack a brick of a book, I'm sure as hell going to carry it. I could make some grand pretentious statement on the poetry of carrying books as words/burdens/etc. But that would just be silly and nonsensical. ;)

Oranos
April 25th, 2008, 10:29 PM
I yawn at the thought, when I already know that my victory is a foregone conclusion. :P

Yeah, probably. I have to hit the sack soon. NFL Draft tomorrow. Priorities and all. ;)


Indeed I do not. But no one carries my stuff for me, regardless. If I'm going to pack a brick of a book, I'm sure as hell going to carry it. I could make some grand pretentious statement on the poetry of carrying books as words/burdens/etc. But that would just be silly and nonsensical. ;)

Damn. I'm not sure I can even make a joke out of this one. I must be tired.

I suppose then, with that, I shall retire, take my leave, what have you. :)

BTW, Wheel of Time is better. :p

Trek_Girl42
April 25th, 2008, 10:31 PM
Yeah, probably. I have to hit the sack soon. NFL Draft tomorrow. Priorities and all. ;)



Damn. I'm not sure I can even make a joke out of this one. I must be tired.

I suppose then, with that, I shall retire, take my leave, what have you. :)

BTW, Wheel of Time is better. :p
I said it was nonsensical..... :P

I'll refrain from getting in the last word on the subject.

Betelgeuze
April 26th, 2008, 04:35 AM
A Song of Ice and Fire is my favourite epic fantasy series. I find it more interesting than most of the other series in this sub genre of fantasy, because there is no clear cut line between good and evil. It is more about actions and consequences, none of the characters are pure good or evil. This is why i like this series more then for instance WoT, where there is an purely evil force that the obvious good guys have to defeat.

My favourite POV's are Jaime and Jon.

Trek_Girl42
April 26th, 2008, 10:05 AM
A Song of Ice and Fire is my favourite epic fantasy series. I find it more interesting than most of the other series in this sub genre of fantasy, because there is no clear cut line between good and evil. It is more about actions and consequences, none of the characters are pure good or evil. This is why i like this series more then for instance WoT, where there is an purely evil force that the obvious good guys have to defeat.

My favourite POV's are Jaime and Jon.That's exactly what I love about it- pretty much every single character is so morally gray- they can be absolutely despicable one moment and likable the next. And many of them have done absolutely horrible things, but then you have to put their actions in context for the society they're in and ahhh! It's a mind-frak is what it is!

Jamie is one of my favourite POVs as well, I fully expected to despise him when I got to his first chapter of ASoS, but as that book went on I felt a lot of sympathy for him.....to the point where I keep having to remind myself that hethrew Bran out the window.

Cersi on the other hand is irredeemable. :S

What I find amusing is that four books into the series and the "evil force" has all but been ignored by probably three quarters or more of the characters.....can't wait to see this bite them all back.

Arative
April 28th, 2008, 04:43 PM
I like this series. Hopefully Martin finishes before he goes the way of Jordan. I really like the way Martin is so brutal with his characters, its refreshing in fantasy writing.

I like Jon and Ayra for the point of views.

Trek_Girl42
April 28th, 2008, 05:25 PM
I like this series. Hopefully Martin finishes before he goes the way of Jordan. I really like the way Martin is so brutal with his characters, its refreshing in fantasy writing.

I like Jon and Ayra for the point of views.
He's not afraid to cut a bloody swath through his cast of characters either..... :S

And don't dare suggest that the same might happen as with Jordan. I don't even want to contemplate that! He'll be sixty this year. Lets hope he lives another fourty years and gives us more books after Ice and Fire is finished. :D

Arative
April 28th, 2008, 05:53 PM
He's not afraid to cut a bloody swath through his cast of characters either..... :S

And don't dare suggest that the same might happen as with Jordan. I don't even want to contemplate that! He'll be sixty this year. Lets hope he lives another fourty years and gives us more books after Ice and Fire is finished. :D

The length of time it takes Martin to take write a book, you never know. But his books are among my favorite so hopefully he does finish it.

I assume you've heard that HBO has optioned the books to turn into a TV series? Last word, Martin had approved the script but HBO was deciding between Song of Ice and Fire and some series about King Arthur. So nothing is set is stone.

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2008/03/setting-record-straight-hbo-and-song-of.html

Trek_Girl42
April 28th, 2008, 06:11 PM
The length of time it takes Martin to take write a book, you never know. But his books are among my favorite so hopefully he does finish it.

I assume you've heard that HBO has optioned the books to turn into a TV series? Last word, Martin had approved the script but HBO was deciding between Song of Ice and Fire and some series about King Arthur. So nothing is set is stone.

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2008/03/setting-record-straight-hbo-and-song-of.html
Yes! I was excited about the potential of this series before I even read the books- good to hear that if it does go ahead they might film in Europe or New Zealand. I do want to see these books put to screen, but any film adaption would probably be crap. The books are far too complex and subtle moments shouldn't be lost, each really does need thirteen hours to play out, they are the perfect material for television- providing the budget is good. :P And the fact that this is HBO, where they wouldn't have to tone it down, even better.

Oranos
April 28th, 2008, 07:16 PM
And don't dare suggest that the same might happen as with Jordan. I don't even want to contemplate that! He'll be sixty this year. Lets hope he lives another fourty years and gives us more books after Ice and Fire is finished. :D

Robert Jordan had a rare blood disease -- I presume Martin does not. If that is reassuring in the least bit. ;)

Trek_Girl42
April 28th, 2008, 09:29 PM
Robert Jordan had a rare blood disease -- I presume Martin does not. If that is reassuring in the least bit. ;)
Well, if he doesn't, that's one potential death scenario off the list.....next up, fans need to keep him from being hit by a bus..... ;):P


*knocks on wood*

Oranos
April 28th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Well, if he doesn't, that's one potential death scenario off the list.....next up, fans need to keep him from being hit by a bus..... ;):P


Oh, pick me! I know the answer! :D

Bubble wrap! :p

Trek_Girl42
April 28th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Oh, pick me! I know the answer! :D

Bubble wrap! :p
:lol: Bring on the fan campaign.....Wrap a Writer, Save a Series.

Oranos
May 16th, 2008, 04:03 PM
Just started reading the first book a few days back; about in the middle, give or take some pages, I think. It's good, maybe even great, but somehow I expected more after all the raving here. Maybe some of that has tainted my enjoyment of the book, I don't know.

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 04:11 PM
Just started reading the first book a few days back; about in the middle, give or take some pages, I think. It's good, maybe even great, but somehow I expected more after all the raving here. Maybe some of that has tainted my enjoyment of the book, I don't know.Just wait and see..... ;)

GateofDOOM
May 16th, 2008, 04:15 PM
...This ol' series? ;)
I can't even remember how long ago I started reading this. Isn't he finished yet?
*frowns*

This is a pretty good series as far as I can tell, but Otherland still beats it out in my books!
...er, pun not intended.

And shouldn't they wait till the books are done till they do a series?
Although at this rate the contract'll expire before the books are all out!

Oranos
May 16th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Just wait and see..... ;)

Wait and see what? The end of the book, the next in the series...? Darn you and your meager hints! *Shakes fist* :p

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 05:11 PM
Wait and see what? The end of the book, the next in the series...? Darn you and your meager hints! *Shakes fist* :pIt's really best not to know when the surprises are coming. So I'll keep my mouth.....er, keyboard, shut, just read. ;)

Gigajules
May 17th, 2008, 05:34 AM
Ooh, I didn't see this thread hiding in here, lol. I finished the fourth book a couple months ago and went right back to the first one to start reading again. It's amazing how much you can miss the first time around. I love the subtlety of GRRM's writing, and the fact that you can read a scene and not always realize every bit of what was actually going on until later. I don't even want to think about what it would be like to keep all of it straight. *brainsplosion*

My favorite character/POV is Jaime. He's definitely the most complicated character in the series, and a great example of how seeing things from a different point of view can make a huge difference. I love his sense of humor. And Tyrion's. Not sure what that says about me, lol.

Trek_Girl42
May 17th, 2008, 11:24 AM
Ooh, I didn't see this thread hiding in here, lol. I finished the fourth book a couple months ago and went right back to the first one to start reading again. It's amazing how much you can miss the first time around. I love the subtlety of GRRM's writing, and the fact that you can read a scene and not always realize every bit of what was actually going on until later. I don't even want to think about what it would be like to keep all of it straight. *brainsplosion*

My favorite character/POV is Jaime. He's definitely the most complicated character in the series, and a great example of how seeing things from a different point of view can make a huge difference. I love his sense of humor. And Tyrion's. Not sure what that says about me, lol.Yeah- I'm doing the same thing, I'm going back and re-reading the series very slowly (we've got about six months at least til the next comes out :P)- I'm about 120 pgs in A Game of Thrones, and already just picking up on the subtle things- appearances of characters that come back later, etc. It's remarkably complex. I just completely missed the whole (seemingly throwaway) mention ofSer Jorahby Robert the first time I read the series, so his true identity came as a shock later on in whichever book that was. But sure enough, early on a single sentence reference to who he was. These books are just so incredibly rich that they can do that- I think the more times they're read, the more you get out of it, they just don't diminish, and I could probably count on one hand the number of books I've read that do that. :zelenka25:

Lady Snow
May 17th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Yes! I adore this series and have gotten several friends (and my sister, who, depending on the day of the week, may or may not qualify as "friend"...) irrevocably hooked. :D They're on my To-Reread list for the summer.

I'm not-so-secretly in love with Jon Snow. And, surprisingly enough, Littlefinger, even though he's a creep and a pervert. :) And Tyrion, to some extent. And Jamie. And... everyone.

And, I'm sorry, Oranos, but I think ASoIaF is quite a bit better than WoT (and yes, I've read all of both more than once :D). I think I believe in GRRM's characters more than I do in Jordan's; Rand always seemed like a massive tool, even when he was doing well, and the skirt-adjusting sometimes got out of hand. :) It's a good series, but it's so frakking long that it dragged at times, which definitely turned me off for a while. GRRM, though, made a believer out of me with end of the first book and the end of the third book, painful though they were to read - I don't think I ever got misty-eyed at WoT, but I darn near cried a couple times in ASoIaF.

Red Wedding = awful. Death of Ned > Red Wedding.

I know we've all got craploads of questions to be answered, but my biggest one is... where the frak is Rickon?!

Arative
May 17th, 2008, 05:07 PM
I thought a Feast for Crows kind of dragged on but mostly because I didn't like most of the point of views in the book. Looking forward to the next one.

I read somewhere that originally, GRRM had intended to skip ahead a number of years, so the kids would become young adults. Not sure if that would have been a good thing or not.

Trek_Girl42
May 17th, 2008, 05:15 PM
Yes! I adore this series and have gotten several friends (and my sister, who, depending on the day of the week, may or may not qualify as "friend"...) irrevocably hooked. :D They're on my To-Reread list for the summer.

I'm not-so-secretly in love with Jon Snow. And, surprisingly enough, Littlefinger, even though he's a creep and a pervert. :) And Tyrion, to some extent. And Jamie. And... everyone.

And, I'm sorry, Oranos, but I think ASoIaF is quite a bit better than WoT (and yes, I've read all of both more than once :D). I think I believe in GRRM's characters more than I do in Jordan's; Rand always seemed like a massive tool, even when he was doing well, and the skirt-adjusting sometimes got out of hand. :) It's a good series, but it's so frakking long that it dragged at times, which definitely turned me off for a while. GRRM, though, made a believer out of me with end of the first book and the end of the third book, painful though they were to read - I don't think I ever got misty-eyed at WoT, but I darn near cried a couple times in ASoIaF.

Red Wedding = awful. Death of Ned > Red Wedding.

I know we've all got craploads of questions to be answered, but my biggest one is... where the frak is Rickon?!
The questions, the questions.....I love the fact that with Jamiehe is so frakking despicable. Until a Storm of Swords and his POV and suddenly I like him! And I do think he is one of the few darker characters who can still attain redemption.

But I think my absolute favourite thing- the bit that sold me on the series (I liked it before this, but it wasn't truly in a a league of it's own among everything I've read until this event), was whenat the end of AGoT Ned died. I was floored, it brought a tear or two, but it was the fact that Ned had been presented as the main protagonist of the series. And GRRM killed him in the first book- which just completely changed the perspective. Brilliant.I'm sure that there are other writers have done that before, but I've never read them. :P

Oranos
May 17th, 2008, 05:42 PM
And, I'm sorry, Oranos, but I think ASoIaF is quite a bit better than WoT (and yes, I've read all of both more than once ).

What on Earth are you apologizing for? Everyone has different tastes. I wouldn't hesitate to admit that Martin's series isn't even on my top 5 list, probably somewhere in between 5 and 10. :)


I think I believe in GRRM's characters more than I do in Jordan's; Rand always seemed like a massive tool, even when he was doing well, and the skirt-adjusting sometimes got out of hand. :)

I think both authors did fine with their characters, though I think I'd give Jordan the edge simply because I like Mazrim Taim so much. And I'm not completely sure why. ;)


It's a good series, but it's so frakking long that it dragged at times, which definitely turned me off for a while.

I think most of the people who believe it drags felt so for one of two reasons: Jordan describes everything very, very intricately -- much more so than Martin, from what I can tell of his first book. Two, Jordan doesn't really rely on huge battles to captivate, instead relying on other pieces to do so. The earlier books covered longer periods of time (years, I believe), so he could pick and choose more so, while the later books would cover a month or two, instead.

I think my biggest problem with Martin is his style of writing. It's something I'm very picky with -- what I'm most critical of. Probably why my book collection isn't bigger. I'm very selective of what I choose because of that.


GRRM, though, made a believer out of me with end of the first book and the end of the third book, painful though they were to read - I don't think I ever got misty-eyed at WoT, but I darn near cried a couple times in ASoIaF.

As good as "A Game of Thrones" is, the book never really hooked me the way "The Eye of the World" did. It's not easy to get an emotional response out of me in television or reading. So far, Martin hasn't really done that. Jordan in the first 200 pages of his first book had two scenes that give me shivers: the prologue and Moiraine's speech on Manetheren.

All that said, from what I've read of Martin's series, he has something special going (I can't judge beyond the 3/4 or so I've read of the 1st book). Jordan too, has a special series. And both are very good authors. That cannot be denied. :D

Gigajules
May 18th, 2008, 07:30 AM
Two, Jordan doesn't really rely on huge battles to captivate, instead relying on other pieces to do so.

Martin doesn't either. (Unless the reader happens to be one who is only captivated by huge battles, I guess.) The fact that there's a war going on through most of the big picture is something that drives a hundred other smaller stories the events of which mean something different for each character, both on an intimate level and in the larger scope of things.

A good part of the draw - for me, at least - is that it is not a happy shiny world where you're sure everything will be all right in the end because the good guys always win. In fact, the good guys usually get completely screwed in horrible ways. I'm not evil or anything (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), I just dig the realism.

There's the brilliant use of POV, too. Even if you don't agree with or like a particular character, you can see where they're coming from (and often whether or not they're completely bat$#!t crazy, as is often the case). I think Jaime's definitely the best example of how knowing what goes on inside a person's head can make you view them in an utterly different light. (And Cersei's probably the best example of how it doesn't, lol.)

In any case, it's a lot more complicated than huge battles.

Trek_Girl42
May 18th, 2008, 09:59 AM
Martin doesn't either. (Unless the reader happens to be one who is only captivated by huge battles, I guess.) The fact that there's a war going on through most of the big picture is something that drives a hundred other smaller stories the events of which mean something different for each character, both on an intimate level and in the larger scope of things.

A good part of the draw - for me, at least - is that it is not a happy shiny world where you're sure everything will be all right in the end because the good guys always win. In fact, the good guys usually get completely screwed in horrible ways. I'm not evil or anything (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), I just dig the realism.That's the great thing- whatever happens in the end, some character that you love will get screwed over. If they even live to the end. ;) There are very few, if any, characters that are "safe". We don't even know who's the most essential piece to the narrative! (though I'm sure many readers will argue for different characters, alas, my favourite character is not likely to live out the series :()
There's the brilliant use of POV, too. Even if you don't agree with or like a particular character, you can see where they're coming from (and often whether or not they're completely bat$#!t crazy, as is often the case). I think Jaime's definitely the best example of how knowing what goes on inside a person's head can make you view them in an utterly different light. (And Cersei's probably the best example of how it doesn't, lol.)

In any case, it's a lot more complicated than huge battles.Good lord yes. If I despised her before her POV, after we saw her POV that turned to absolute vicious hatred, I mean really. Absolutely horrendous human being. If she even deserves to be called that.

Jamie on the other hand, who was my least favourite character before (the golden haired bad boy, who kills his king and throws a boy out a window to protect his secret incest? :S), becomes one of my favourites after his POV. Very sympathetic, and possibly redeemable. Unfortunately it sounds like his POV won't be in ADWD (or at least until the end half- as I understood it, most of the next book will cover the characters missing from AFfC, but towards the end the timelines will meet up so we'll see some resolution to AFfC cliffhangers?), and we'll have to wait until the next book. :(

I find that I liked AFfC probably more than the average reader because my favourite POVs are split down the middle between this "two-parter" (though I hate to wait what will probably be another three years before I get my favourite character back!) of AFfC and ADWD. The only thing (and I think this is what most people didn't like about the book and I absolutely agree) that makes the book a bit weaker than the others is the Iron Island chapters- those POVs were hard to follow and I kept getting the characters mixed up (using the nicknames rather than their proper names for the POV titles was a mistake) to the point of writing a chart for myself. I suspect this must have come as a result from having to split the original big book into two, because the rest of GRRM's characters and writing is superb, it's just those chapters that don't feel quite like they ever developed enough which makes them hard to read. He must have had to do a lot of re-tooling trying to make sure what went in to the book fit together, that this whole new group of POVs probably didn't get as much attention as they should have in re-writes.

Oranos
May 18th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Martin doesn't either. (Unless the reader happens to be one who is only captivated by huge battles, I guess.) The fact that there's a war going on through most of the big picture is something that drives a hundred other smaller stories the events of which mean something different for each character, both on an intimate level and in the larger scope of things.

From what I've read thus far, I realize that. But it's a combination of the above mentioned factors for Jordan (and more that I could go into, but won't). For some readers, that's tedious; I think this is part of why some readers don't appreciate Jordan. Or so it seems. Martin isn't close to Jordan's level of detail.


A good part of the draw - for me, at least - is that it is not a happy shiny world where you're sure everything will be all right in the end because the good guys always win. In fact, the good guys usually get completely screwed in horrible ways. I'm not evil or anything (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), I just dig the realism.

I agree, in part. I like to see the bad guys as top dog, but there needs to be that sliver of hope, something that gives the good guys a remote chance. When authors take that to extremes, that too can be a bit tedious. And ridiculous. I think there needs to be a balance; you can't lean too much in one direction.


In any case, it's a lot more complicated than huge battles.

Indeed. In fact, most of my favorite series/books don't have some huge battle. There's more important things. :)

Oranos
May 18th, 2008, 11:42 AM
That's the great thing- whatever happens in the end, some character that you love will get screwed over. If they even live to the end. ;)
There are very few, if any, characters that are "safe". We don't even know who's the most essential piece to the narrative! (though I'm sure many readers will argue for different characters, alas, my favourite character is not likely to live out the series :()

See? You've come to expect death too much. :p

Trek_Girl42
May 18th, 2008, 11:54 AM
See? You've come to expect death too much. :pYou've barely started the series. You'll come to expect it too. ;)

Lady Snow
May 19th, 2008, 03:27 PM
I'm currently working my way through these (http://community.livejournal.com/fanmoot/32995.html#cutid1), which are quite funny. :)

Trek_Girl42
May 19th, 2008, 04:18 PM
I'm currently working my way through these (http://community.livejournal.com/fanmoot/32995.html#cutid1), which are quite funny. :)Wow. This looks great thanks for the link! :D

GateofDOOM
May 21st, 2008, 02:56 AM
I'm not-so-secretly in love with Jon Snow. And, surprisingly enough, Littlefinger, even though he's a creep and a pervert. :) And Tyrion, to some extent. And Jamie. And... everyone.

Truly we think alike!
When I was reading these I always checked ahead to see the next time Jon, or Jaime would have a chapter. I also checked ahead for Bran's chapters.

I'm gonna have to add my vote of ASoIaF being better than WoT. I felt that Eye of the World was basically a re-write of Sword of Shannara and although I enjoyed the first five books (particularly three!) I kind of fell of for me after that (The Crossroads one was absolutely terrible IMO) and I don't think I'll bother to finish. (Yeah I know it's just one more book. I'm lazy, shoot me).
Besides my favourite character died in five ( :( )and Rand got annoying, even though I knew it was pretty realistic; the arrogance and what have you. So...yeah
I do intend to finish ASoIaF, eventually, but I'm not going to bother until he's done writing. (What can I say? Cliffhangers kill me, I can't wait any longer!). I haven't even read the fourth one...A feast for Crows?

...I guess Harry Potter put me off waiting for sequels. It was half my life!

Lady Snow
June 16th, 2008, 09:03 AM
I'm not entirely sure if this is allowed here, but I've got a pimp for anyone who's got an LJ (or would be interested in getting one to discuss ASoIaF... ;)):

There are a bunch of communities on LJ for people who want to discuss and stay up-to-date on ASoIaF, but there's been a recent push to have a more interactive part of the fandom, much like how the HP fandom (almost literally) exploded. TO that end, westerosorting (http://community.livejournal.com/westerosorting/) was created, sorting people into one of seven Great Houses (Greyjoy, Lannister, Martell, Stark, Targaryen, Tully, Tyrell), and setting up various sub-communities for families and tournaments and discussion and just all-around ASoIaF love.

And, well, for the sake of honesty, the first tourney challenge was to recruit more people. :) So if you do head over there and decide to participate, do mention that ender839 of House Tully sent you. :D

(Seriously, if this isn't kosher, I'll be happy to delete it. I thought that there might be people around here who weren't aware of such an awesome opportunity to squee and be part of another fandom.)

Trek_Girl42
June 16th, 2008, 09:11 AM
I'm not entirely sure if this is allowed here, but I've got a pimp for anyone who's got an LJ (or would be interested in getting one to discuss ASoIaF... ;)):

There are a bunch of communities on LJ for people who want to discuss and stay up-to-date on ASoIaF, but there's been a recent push to have a more interactive part of the fandom, much like how the HP fandom (almost literally) exploded. TO that end, westerosorting (http://community.livejournal.com/westerosorting/) was created, sorting people into one of seven Great Houses (Greyjoy, Lannister, Martell, Stark, Targaryen, Tully, Tyrell), and setting up various sub-communities for families and tournaments and discussion and just all-around ASoIaF love.

And, well, for the sake of honesty, the first tourney challenge was to recruit more people. :) So if you do head over there and decide to participate, do mention that ender839 of House Tully sent you. :D

(Seriously, if this isn't kosher, I'll be happy to delete it. I thought that there might be people around here who weren't aware of such an awesome opportunity to squee and be part of another fandom.)I'm up for it! I'm a little confused, what do I do- join the community, then do I copy that survey, make a new post and I get voted on?

Lady Snow
June 16th, 2008, 09:28 AM
I'm up for it! I'm a little confused, what do I do- join the community, then do I copy that survey, make a new post and I get voted on?

Exactly right. :D Your post won't show up immediately - so as not to backlog all the other sortings - but you've got the process exactly right. It would also not be a bad idea to glance over some of the other application posts to see what sorts of things worked; for example, here's (http://community.livejournal.com/westerosorting/1114.html#cutid1) mine. And you don't have to worry about not being sorted - everyone who's applied thus far has been sorted. :)

Trek_Girl42
June 16th, 2008, 09:38 AM
Exactly right. :D Your post won't show up immediately - so as not to backlog all the other sortings - but you've got the process exactly right. It would also not be a bad idea to glance over some of the other application posts to see what sorts of things worked; for example, here's (http://community.livejournal.com/westerosorting/1114.html#cutid1) mine. And you don't have to worry about not being sorted - everyone who's applied thus far has been sorted. :)Thanks! :)

Exiled Master
May 12th, 2010, 06:58 AM
The Dance goes ever on and on...I've gone through all of the analysis articles on towerofthehand.com and it no longer slakes my thirst for information. Jon's parentage: settled question. Coldhands: still waaaay open. 'The dragon has three heads': 2.5 out of 3 (or 83.3% sure)
I'm sure some of you have heard about the 'GRRM hates fanfic' arguments from the last two weeks, but this piece on io9 laid down something I hadn't though of: http://io9.com/5535558/is-fan-fiction-really-so-wrong

Exiled Master
May 12th, 2010, 06:58 AM
The Dance goes ever on and on...I've gone through all of the analysis articles on towerofthehand.com and it no longer slakes my thirst for information. Jon's parentage: settled question. Coldhands: still waaaay open. 'The dragon has three heads': 2.5 out of 3 (or 83.3% sure)
I'm sure some of you have heard about the 'GRRM hates fanfic' arguments from the last two weeks, but this piece on io9 laid down something I hadn't though of: http://io9.com/5535558/is-fan-fiction-really-so-wrong

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2010, 04:40 PM
really liked this series, jon snow is my fav character pov, i missed him in a feast for crows.

magictrick
June 3rd, 2010, 05:42 PM
really liked this series, jon snow is my fav character pov, i missed him in a feast for crows.

He should be in the next book, A Dance with Dragons. It was originally supposed to be just one book, but he split it out into 2, Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons. Of course, Dance was supposed to be released in 2009, and it doesn't look like GRRM is even close to finishing it either

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2010, 06:33 PM
He should be in the next book, A Dance with Dragons. It was originally supposed to be just one book, but he split it out into 2, Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons. Of course, Dance was supposed to be released in 2009, and it doesn't look like GRRM is even close to finishing it either

Yeah its been awhile since ive heard anything about a dance with dragons coming out. I hate when that happens, an author starts a series and takes forever to finish it while writing other non- series related books in between.

magictrick
June 4th, 2010, 08:19 AM
Yeah its been awhile since ive heard anything about a dance with dragons coming out. I hate when that happens, an author starts a series and takes forever to finish it while writing other non- series related books in between.

At least we have the HBO series to look forward to. That will probably air before the new book is released.

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2010, 12:58 PM
At least we have the HBO series to look forward to. That will probably air before the new book is released.

sadly i don't have hbo but theyll probably have it on itunes or something. when is that series supposed to air anyway?

magictrick
June 4th, 2010, 03:58 PM
sadly i don't have hbo but theyll probably have it on itunes or something. when is that series supposed to air anyway?

Air date is currently supposed to be in 2011 like in March or April. Of course nothing is for certain. It will be on iTunes and Netflix for sure as with all shows these days.

jmoz
June 5th, 2010, 12:38 AM
Think I'm probably the only one that didn't like this series? Found it too dark/borderline drag and the politics too silly. Then again I find all politics too silly. Wheel of Time was good for like the first four books or three and the latest one. He won't kill off dragon chick. Invested too much time in the characters, unlike the ones he has already killed off. Can't believe he made her lesbian (yes I know, not fully), million bucks say he won't write the opposite angle of a male gay character, so I just think that it was some "guy fantasy" thing. I'm a guy and I didn't like it.

magictrick
June 5th, 2010, 07:08 AM
Think I'm probably the only one that didn't like this series?

I doubt you are, you'd be hard pressed to find a series that everyone likes.


Found it too dark/borderline drag and the politics too silly. Then again I find all politics too silly.

I liked the feel and tone of the series. Sometimes the politics did get ridiculous, but not enough to derail the story.


He won't kill off dragon chick

Good, Dany is one of my favourite characters :)


Invested too much time in the characters, unlike the ones he has already killed off.

This is why I really liked it. Each main character is outlined in so much detail. You know why they act the way they do. Its what I really enjoyed about the series.


Can't believe he made her lesbian (yes I know, not fully), million bucks say he won't write the opposite angle of a male gay character, so I just think that it was some "guy fantasy" thing. I'm a guy and I didn't like it.

With all the craziness that happens in the book it didn't surprise me. I wouldn't call it a guy fantasy just because of that.

VampyreWraith
June 5th, 2010, 10:43 AM
yeah, its not everyones thing. It can get pretty dark and twisted at times, and thers lots of intricate politics going on trying to figure out who is allied with who and who is backstabbing who, and what not.

Krichton
June 7th, 2010, 04:34 AM
Yeah its been awhile since ive heard anything about a dance with dragons coming out. I hate when that happens, an author starts a series and takes forever to finish it while writing other non- series related books in between.

I think when you spend 16 or more years writing the same series of books it gets a little tiring. I think he's just bored. Let's not forget that before this Martin was mostly a short story teller.


Truly we think alike!
When I was reading these I always checked ahead to see the next time Jon, or Jaime would have a chapter. I also checked ahead for Bran's chapters.

I'm gonna have to add my vote of ASoIaF being better than WoT. I felt that Eye of the World was basically a re-write of Sword of Shannara and although I enjoyed the first five books (particularly three!) I kind of fell of for me after that (The Crossroads one was absolutely terrible IMO) and I don't think I'll bother to finish. (Yeah I know it's just one more book. I'm lazy, shoot me).
Besides my favourite character died in five ( :( )and Rand got annoying, even though I knew it was pretty realistic; the arrogance and what have you. So...yeah
I do intend to finish ASoIaF, eventually, but I'm not going to bother until he's done writing. (What can I say? Cliffhangers kill me, I can't wait any longer!). I haven't even read the fourth one...A feast for Crows?

...I guess Harry Potter put me off waiting for sequels. It was half my life!

Martin should be finished with the series in 2020 or so. You can finish A Feast for Crows then along with the last two books.

VampyreWraith
June 8th, 2010, 09:12 PM
I think when you spend 16 or more years writing the same series of books it gets a little tiring. I think he's just bored. Let's not forget that before this Martin was mostly a short story teller.



Martin should be finished with the series in 2020 or so. You can finish A Feast for Crows then along with the last two books.

i know it might get boring writing in the same world all the time. It's just a few authors i like have done the same thing. It just gets a bit frustrating to pick up the first book of a series when your 14 and stll not be able to finish that series now that I'm almost 30. Not talking about the Martin books here but another author with the same thing gong on.

Morbo
July 12th, 2011, 06:21 AM
I just finished the first book, and am currently in book 2.
Watched the HBO series and thought it was excellent.

Anyone pick up A Dance With Dragons today? It's officially out!

MattSilver 3k
July 19th, 2011, 09:57 PM
Yeah Morbo man, we have a whole running discussion about Dance over at the Game of Thrones section (http://forum.gateworld.net/forumdisplay.php?f=240&pagenumber=), in the Books thread. Lots of fun.