Atlantis Better As A.... Military OR Civilian Operation

[Gate Traveller]

Alot of talk bout this ever since they reestablished contact with earth and progressed right through to season 4 is the mini debate on whether Atlantis should be run by the Military or a Civilian Operation with scientists, archeologists, technicians etc.

Personally i think it fine as joint operation however the Military needs more power to act in times of emergancy. Its funny because the civilians actually want more power and feel that the Military is slowly taking over.

I know the IOA wants more input, which usually results in a more head on approach, shoot first ask questions later sort of thing.

How should it be run then considering that Earth has beaten down the Replicators and are making more headway against the Wraith all the time. Will there be a need for a heavy military presence in Atlantis since they now have the gates between the galaxies connected and the Midway Station? Ideas, comments, suggestions?

[GeneralLuckyAC]

I believe the IoA should leave them well enough alone and it should be a Joint-Operation.

All the time it seems the IoA is always causing crap, like in Ark of Truth with the replicators.

[amconway]

Atlantis hasn't been a research operation since about halfway through the first episode (something that I find highly disappointing, actually) when they discovered the wraith. Since then science and exploration have been entirely incidental as they hunt for ZPM's. It is a military operation against the wraith, replicators and Genii. At this point, civilian leadership is inexplicable....
"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think? "

[David:)]

I think it is working fine as a joint operation. But...with Woolsey taking over is season 5, the IOA might cause even more trouble than they have before.

Ohh...your comment about Earth having a Midway station is incorrect. It got blown up in season 4's Midway.

Spoiler:

Who would win...

VS.

...good episode idea, I think.

[SpaceCowboy]

The military personnel on Atlantis function under normal conditions under the leadership of a civilian administrator (with the exception of Season 4) who in turn answers to a variety of bosses, including the IOA and SGC. In extreme situations, however, the military on Atlantis answer to the proper chain of command (as seen in Seige II) bypassing the civilian administrator. Presumably this kind of order would come through the Director of Homeworld Security (I believe that is General O'Neill's title) from the National Command Authority (the President of the United States).

Ultimately, the military answers to the Commander in Chief.

[rielgenius1688]

I liked back during SG-1 when, while the military clearly ran things, there was a lot of archeology and other non-military stuff going on. I mean, how many times did we see times when SG-1, the flagship unit, doing all sorts of first contact and exploration? That is something missing these days.

[Flyboy]

As has already been pointed out, Atlantis is a large scale expedition, a colony if you will in another galaxy. Military operations are fine and dandy but they always have to follow orders in the end from a civilian, it's why Hammond was always on the red phone to the President. The SGC represents just another element of the USAF, as Air Command does to the RAF, it is specifically about sending soldiers/airmen/marines out on military recon operations to aquire technology and defend earth.

Atlantis is a city, with more civilian personnell than military. The military staff are simply there as a defence force, much like the military are anywhere in the world when not on deployment.

There is only one reason to turn Atlantis into a military command, and that is simply to change it's remit, evac the botanists and similar, increase the military presence and step up to war with the wraith.

If Homeworld Security decides that Atlantis is there specifically to fight the Wraith, then hey, military commander. If not, then you need a civvy one.

[Cameron Mitchel]

As has already been pointed out, Atlantis is a large scale expedition, a colony if you will in another galaxy. Military operations are fine and dandy but they always have to follow orders in the end from a civilian, it's why Hammond was always on the red phone to the President. The SGC represents just another element of the USAF, as Air Command does to the RAF, it is specifically about sending soldiers/airmen/marines out on military recon operations to aquire technology and defend earth.

Atlantis is a city, with more civilian personnell than military. The military staff are simply there as a defence force, much like the military are anywhere in the world when not on deployment.

There is only one reason to turn Atlantis into a military command, and that is simply to change it's remit, evac the botanists and similar, increase the military presence and step up to war with the wraith.

If Homeworld Security decides that Atlantis is there specifically to fight the Wraith, then hey, military commander. If not, then you need a civvy one.

I personally believe it needs to have both military and civilian leaders, but as well I believe that Atlantis should be primarily military run. Why? Everything their faced with is pretty much a military situation. All of the long lasting conflicts are military situations that require military leaders. When there are civilian conflicts, then a civilian is needed and the head of civilian matters can step in and assume control. But, overall, a military leader is needed. That's why I believe Everett was one of the best commanders I've seen on the show. Weir or Carter (SG1 is hardly military in the way they perform offworld) couldn't have done what Everett did in Seige Part II. They couldn't do that.

[Bray]

...from the National Command Authority (the President of the United States)...

Atlantis is an international mission right? (well it's supposed to be but it mainly seems to be yanks, 2 brits (dead), a canadian and a russian.) So it wouldn't answer to the president of the US...unless that is he is now President of the World.

[Flyboy]

I personally believe it needs to have both military and civilian leaders, but as well I believe that Atlantis should be primarily military run. Why? Everything their faced with is pretty much a military situation. All of the long lasting conflicts are military situations that require military leaders. When there are civilian conflicts, then a civilian is needed and the head of civilian matters can step in and assume control. But, overall, a military leader is needed. That's why I believe Everett was one of the best commanders I've seen on the show. Weir or Carter (SG1 is hardly military in the way they perform offworld) couldn't have done what Everett did in Seige Part II. They couldn't do that.

I see your point, but there's a problem.

We don't see it, but Atlantis does more than just fight Wraith. It is a major science and diplomatic expedition of an international nature. The civilian leader is appropriate for this, particularly having a diplomat.

Now, turning Atlantis into a military command would work. ONLY if you strip way it's other functions and turn it into an outpost, and not a colony. Even then however, you need a civvy behind the Military Officer in charge. Now it doesn't have to specifically be actually IN Atlantis, i cite S4 as an example:

Spoiler:

Carter was the military commander of Atlantis for S4, essentially at the end of S3, the IOA declared a significant military threat and acted on it. A First Strike was taken and Atlantis put into what was essentially a direct war with the Asurans, which had never happened with the Wraith to the same extent. Even with Carter in command of Atlantis, she has to have a civilian behind her (on earth) to make overall decisions.

A platoon leader decides on tactics.
A General (or similar) decides on Strategy
A civilian leader decides on aims.

The civvy must ALWAYS decide on what the aims and objectives are and what is proportional. It is the General's job to decide how to achieve those aims, and then the civvy authorises it. The platoon commander/ship's captain etc executes it.

Now, if Atlantis was US run, then I could accept simply having a military officer in charge, as there would be the President to report to and he would be that civilian that's needed. But it's not the President, it's the IOA. And the IOA needs someone who'll make decisions for them because that's the way they like it. They can take the credit if it works, or blame the individual if it doesn't. You can't do that with a military leader, you need a civilian representative, like Weir or Woolsey, because they then bring the civilian oversight to the Pegasus Galaxy and can allow the military staff to plan their strategies accordingly.

The reason the Siege was beyond Weir's control was simple. The conflict lost any strategic element, it was purely defensive and not like typical warfare at all. The moment the battle is purely on your doorstep civilian oversight becomes irrelevant and all decisions become tactical, and so a military commander is required.

It's never about a civilian conflict... all conflicts are civilian in essence, as the military is merely an extension of policy. The civvy needs to be able to declare the military's objectives and let the General do his thing. Without the civvy, the General will lose focus. A perfect example is the Battlestar Galactica mini series in which (I forget his name) the Commanding Officer is determined to fight till the end, until the new President brings him round.

Unless Atlantis becomes solely a military outpost under a specific chain of command, ie US DoD, then it needs a civilian in charge.

[Kebab Gud]

Spoiler:

Who would win...

VS.

...good episode idea, I think.

Spoiler:

Given that the Ori has the same tech level as the Alterans but numbered in the MILLIONS if not Billions i would give it to them.. Remember.. the Alterans Won the battles.. but lost the war due to the Wraith being SOOOOO many.. had the Alterans been more.. they would have won..

[arrowspark]

Alot of talk bout this ever since they reestablished contact with earth and progressed right through to season 4 is the mini debate on whether Atlantis should be run by the Military or a Civilian Operation with scientists, archeologists, technicians etc.

Personally i think it fine as joint operation however the Military needs more power to act in times of emergancy. Its funny because the civilians actually want more power and feel that the Military is slowly taking over.

I know the IOA wants more input, which usually results in a more head on approach, shoot first ask questions later sort of thing.

How should it be run then considering that Earth has beaten down the Replicators and are making more headway against the Wraith all the time. Will there be a need for a heavy military presence in Atlantis since they now have the gates between the galaxies connected and the Midway Station? Ideas, comments, suggestions?

Military all the way. That's what made SG-1 great. The IOA was the worst thing that ever happened to the Stargate universe. The IOA should have been disbanded after the stunt they pulled on SG-1 in the Ark of Truth. Teal'C needs to throw them all out an airlock.

[Flyboy]

Military all the way. That's what made SG-1 great. The IOA was the worst thing that ever happened to the Stargate universe. The IOA should have been disbanded after the stunt they pulled on SG-1 in the Ark of Truth. Teal'C needs to throw them all out an airlock.

But it's realistic... thats what would happen. Should the USA be the sole representative of Earth?

[MerryK]

I personally believe it needs to have both military and civilian leaders, but as well I believe that Atlantis should be primarily military run. Why? Everything their faced with is pretty much a military situation. All of the long lasting conflicts are military situations that require military leaders.

*scratches head* Did you not see all the episodes where scientists figured out the problems? It's at least half of them, if not more. Sheppard and his marines are very handy for support, but science has won more of the battles. Therefore, having nearly all the funding go to military action would be foolish, just as appointing a commander who doesn't understand science and scientists would be.

[fugiman]

But it's realistic... thats what would happen. Should the USA be the sole representative of Earth?

Well the US was doing a pretty good job for a while

Still I like the fact they have other countires because you get to see more opinions of other cultures on earth and how they see the stargate program