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GateWorld
April 23rd, 2008, 10:13 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/411.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 30</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">TURN LEFT</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 3011</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Under the influence of an alien creature, Donna is thrust into an alternate life where she never met the Doctor -- and where the Doctor was not around to save the Earth.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
June 21st, 2008, 12:19 PM
Wicked episode
I liked the beginning bit with the fortune teller trying to get Donna to turn right to change her past and then the bug grabbing her. I also liked the creepiness of how some people could see the bug for a bit and some couldnt
Nice to see how Donnas life turned out if she didnt meet the doctor and how the world might turn out without the doctor
I dont really care that there were some plot holes because I didnt really think of them while watching the episode
Good to see some of Doctors friends saving the world from dangers, Sarah-Jane defeating the Plasmavore and Jack, Gwen and Ianto defeating the Sontarans.
Rose is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :):):)
Episode score - 11/10
Bit at end with
Everything around the Doctor turning to Bad Wolf, even his own Tardis. Then when he was like, Its the End Of the Universe...

Next week looks wicked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Davros will be in it!
Daleks definately in it!
Torchwood stars in it, Jack, Martha, Rose, Mickey, Jackie and Sarah Jane plus her adopted son Luke are in it too with K9 hopefully and those intergalactic police (Judoon)
Will the Master be in it. Anyone got any ideas???
Lots of Dalek Spaceships :):) :lol:
W00t First post
:lol:

The_Carpenter
June 21st, 2008, 12:23 PM
Frakking AWESOME...... though a few plot holes.... Earth would of been conquered by the Carrionites in Elizabethan times, and by the Daleks in the 1920s....

And I shall post more of my thoughts when I have watched it again.... but wow the end BAD WOLF

Reefgirl
June 21st, 2008, 12:44 PM
Bloody hellfire that was some episode and not bad for a 'Doctor lite' one, Catherine Tate was unbelievably good in this one, shades of the old Donna from Runaway Bride, especially the bit where she got the sack and the 'New' Donna when she and Wilf realised where they army were taking the other residents of the house. Bernard Cribbins was spectacular in that scene, showing us there is a lot more to Gramps than just a few lines here and there, I'm warming to Sylvia a bit more now as well. It was interesting to see what happened to the world when the Doctor wasn't there to save it but how his past companions stepped in to take his place, Sarah-Jane defeating the Plasmavore and Jack, Gwen and Ianto defeating the Sontarans. I wasn't expecting the 'Bad Wolf' twist and the Cloister Bell ringing, that is definitly bad news.

Next week

I can't bloody wait and I'm working too http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_wah.gif
Sarah-Jane and Luke
Jack, Ianto and Gwen
Harriet Jones
and, was that Sandra Dickinson with the Judoon?

Teddybrown
June 21st, 2008, 12:49 PM
Next week

I can't bloody wait and I'm working too http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_wah.gif
Sarah-Jane and Luke
Jack, Ianto and Gwen
Harriet Jones
and, was that Sandra Dickinson with the Judoon?

Davros will be in it I think

GodAtum
June 21st, 2008, 12:50 PM
That was an amazing and completely original episode. I wonder if the Master story arc will be resolved in the next episode?

Reefgirl
June 21st, 2008, 12:50 PM
Davros will be in it I think
Probably in the last scene

P-90_177
June 21st, 2008, 12:55 PM
Oh hell that was worth a watch just for the last 2 minutes.

It was a fantastic story though. Cathrine Tate really showed her acting ability here. As well as Billie Piper. I really loved how they got on with eachother.

Madeleine
June 21st, 2008, 02:10 PM
Catherine Tate is rather catching up with DT in the acting stakes. She made this week's eposide so good I forgot I was supposed to be watching a show starring someone else.

The 'thing' on her back was a weird and original idea - certain people being able to half-see it made it really creepy.

The clips from Runaway Bride were okay, but better by far was the stuff that was re-worked from s3 and s4 stories: the helpless soldier with his solitary Atmos vehicle, the ubiquitous american newsreader announcing the adipose disaster, and all that.

Fangirl squee moment: The Cloister Bell rung!

Red Fox
June 21st, 2008, 02:13 PM
Whose are all the spaceships???


They are Dalek saucers last seen in Bad Wolf and The Parting of the Ways. Liked the brief shot of a Dalek entering the Torchwood hub, either that or they've got onto Deep Space Nine ;)



Davros will be in it I think

Probably the source of the laugh at the end of the trailer for next week.

Also shown in the trailer new type of Dalek, a red one with various differences in design.

P-90_177
June 21st, 2008, 02:15 PM
Did anyone else feel that huge moment of anticipation when the Doctor was waiting to hear the two words Rose told Donna? I mean it just felt like we were right with the Doctor at that point and then When she said Bad Wolf and the music started it was like you felt the same thing as the doctor all the way through up to when he ran into the TARDIS.

I also loved hearing the Cloister bell again. we don't it hear it enough me thinks.

Matt G
June 21st, 2008, 02:49 PM
1. Creepy enough start - you have to wonder who hired the Trickster!

2. The twists on all of the S3 and 4 Who episodes was also freaky. The hospital dissapearance got people's attention, but it also saw off Martha!

The Titanic wiped out London and sent the whole of the UK out of whack!!!!!

And just when the UK was about to be bailed out by the Yanks, the Adipose hits Stateside!

3. I did like how Rose was used here though.

4. But what/who the hell would be turning out the stars like that.

Next week is going to be one hell of a blowout!

Gregorius
June 21st, 2008, 04:26 PM
Nice episode, CT's performance was good. As for Rose, what happened to her voice? She sounded odd and her accent was fluctuating. :/

The trailer for next week was very interesting. I've included some screencaps from the trailer. :)

Sheppard little minx
June 21st, 2008, 04:38 PM
next weeks looks brillant... i won't be able to see it until sunday as going to a concert

tonight's one 10 out of 10

Naonak
June 21st, 2008, 04:40 PM
I wasn't as awed as some people, but it was a decent episode. Some scenes were excellent - the other family being taken away, and the final Donna/Rose scene particularly.

It was interesting to see how screwed the world got because the Doctor died. Although... is the whole "too fast for him to regenerate" thing some kind of established part of regeneration, or just something they came up with now to allow this plot to work...?

The stars going out, while damned cool, does seem a little scientifically dodgy...

The last scene was epic. :eek:

Frakking AWESOME...... though a few plot holes.... Earth would of been conquered by the Carrionites in Elizabethan times, and by the Daleks in the 1920s....
... and the Pyroviles in 79 AD...
And wasn't the Titanic crashing going to wipe out the planet...?

But never mind... :rolleyes:

I wonder if the Master story arc will be resolved in the next episode?
What's that got to do with it...?

The_Carpenter
June 21st, 2008, 04:52 PM
... and the Pyroviles in 79 AD...
And wasn't the Titanic crashing going to wipe out the planet...?

But never mind... :rolleyes:
?


Those as well.... thats what a Harvey Wallbanger and a few glasses of wine does too ya ;)

Mr Prophet
June 21st, 2008, 04:58 PM
The clips from Runaway Bride were okay, but better by far was the stuff that was re-worked from s3 and s4 stories: the helpless soldier with his solitary Atmos vehicle, the ubiquitous american newsreader announcing the adipose disaster, and all that.

But why was there an adipose disaster? It was only supposed to be bad because they rushed it when the Doctor and Donna stuck their noses in.


Fangirl squee moment: The Cloister Bell rung!

Yes!

P-90_177
June 21st, 2008, 05:05 PM
But why was there an adipose disaster? It was only supposed to be bad because they rushed it when the Doctor and Donna stuck their noses in.


Maybe UNIT realised something was up and got in the way. Or Torchwood. Then Matron acelerated the process and they failed to stop it.

Skydiver
June 21st, 2008, 05:33 PM
Nice episode, CT's performance was good. As for Rose, what happened to her voice? She sounded odd and her accent was fluctuating. :/

The trailer for next week was very interesting. I've included some screencaps from the trailer. :)
i removed the attachments since they are spoilers and there's no way to spoiler tag attachment thumbnails

Willow'sCat
June 21st, 2008, 06:23 PM
Wonderful episode. RTD still has it! :)

I loved seeing Rose again, I am glad she was not with The Doctor, as it made her appearance much better then relegating it to shippy nonsense IMHO of course. She came off as smart and not a one dimensional 'crush' as I was worried she might. Billie didn't have a lot to do really in the eppy but she did what she did very well.

CT was just mind blowing! Her acting was spot on in all her scenes, she was just wonderful. No over acting, her subtle reactions in those moments that needed them and her ballsy delivery of those lines in the office were true to her character and show CT to be a dam good actor. 10/10 for her performance. :)

I do love tales of 'what if' and within a show that trades on time travel I am actually surprised Doctor Who hasn't done more of these 'what if' episodes.

Yes there were plot holes, and I am not even sure I know what all of them are but I think some of the stuff around Torchwood (or SJ adventures) would have happened as well but they were not shown. Just on Doctor Who... I mean seriously the guy has saved the world... a lot! :) There must be loads of things, tiny things that changed when Donna turned right (I love that... all evil is to the right :p) after the bug attached to her, things that they couldn't fit or tell in the space of one episode. You could seriously do a whole series on that alone. Specials anyone? :S

I am wondering now if *spoilers Torchwood/Doctor Who* this is what Jack's boss in Torchwood saw before he committed suicide, the things that are about to happen on Earth and in the Universe/s?

Also why I am spoil tagging... SQUEE! Ianto, Gwen and Jack! In Doctor Who! Whee!!!! :)

I loved the cloister bell too! Great stuff all round and the next couple of eps are looking like they could be instant classics. :);)

Who says I don't love Doctor Who? :rolleyes::cool:

tombombadil
June 21st, 2008, 07:04 PM
my theory: the medusa cascade opened

ShadowMaat
June 21st, 2008, 09:50 PM
*iz ded from awesome*

Wow, what a FANTASTIC ep! The hiccups didn't bother me as I was too enamored of the wonderful performance given by CT. People can dis her all they want, I think she's GREAT and as far as I'm concerned this ep proved it. Wow! The creepy "something on your back" thing is making my neck itchy. LOL!

You always wonder (or I always did anyway) what would happen if certain decisions had gone the other way and it was great to get a peek at how things could have gone if Donna hadn't been around. I do wonder at the hints of her being something more, though. Is that just Rose's influence or is there really something more to Donna than meets the eye?

That's the second time Rose has been there for someone committing world-saving suicide by walking in front of a car. Remind me not to get to know her. :P

Speaking of... I have to say that as much as I was loathing Rose's return I've liked the way she's been used this season- those little background moments and then popping up everywhere in this ep. Was she using the cobbled-together time machine or was something else pulling her along? Maybe even Donna herself? That could be interesting. Hopefully we'll find out next week.

Creepy about everyone dying. Sarah Jane and company dying with Martha in the hospital, Jack and company dying to stop the Sontarans. Well, Gwen and Ianto dying, anyway. Jack was sent to the Sontar homeworld, but the immortality thing probably worked against him rather than for him.

Torchwood finale (just in case): Given that there was no mention of Tosh and Owen does that mean that the Atmos attack took place after the Torchwood finale?

I guess this ep also answers the question of what happens to the TARDIS if the Doctor dies. Well, sort of. ;)

As for the preview...

Double crossover! Yay! Torchwood, Sarah Jane, and the Doctor, together in one show! *squees* The Daleks need to be retired for a good long while, but other than that it looks like the ep could be every bit as awesome as this one was. Hopefully more. :)

Major Clanger
June 22nd, 2008, 01:14 AM
What was that ep from when I were a lass when those guys had those huge spiders on their backs? I was thinking it might be one of them. The beetle was faintly ridiculous to me.

But I absolutely loved that ep, and it had the Gruesomes absolutely enthralled.

Mr Prophet
June 22nd, 2008, 01:55 AM
What was that ep from when I were a lass when those guys had those huge spiders on their backs? I was thinking it might be one of them. The beetle was faintly ridiculous to me.

I had the same problem I had with the vespiform. Why did the trickster look so precisely like a terrestrial beetle, just big? Still, it was a small problem and mostly outweighed by the sheer creepiness of the way it kept trying to eat her hair when it was visible and the reactions of other characters when it was invisible.

Absolutely agree with all the good things said about CT, and I really loved seeing the Donna who never changed and remained the same self-absorbed woman who never noticed the Cyberinvasion. Bernard Cribbins was also awesome, proving his chops as more than just a comic actor, especially in that scene where the Italian family are being taken away.

Actually, that scene was just made of win, with the Italian father still trying to put on a brave face for everyone and Donna finally getting a clue as to what was really going on.

Yeah, I liked this one. Although what was going on with Billie Piper's voice? Has she had work done (badly) on her teeth or something?

Pitry
June 22nd, 2008, 02:06 AM
OMDFG. Loved this episode to bits.
What did RTD say last year about the run of dark episodes, remind me?:)

Catherine Tate was absolutely wonderful and brilliant and mind blowing. As were Bernard Cribbins and the one playing her mother... The whole setting of the world falling apart without the Doctor was so cruel... sniff. And everyone dying one by one. -speaking of which, did anyone manage to catch how the sarah Jane kids died? Donna and Sylvia were talking about tea over it, I jsut caught they died, hehe.
And I don't mind the plot holes about the Pyroviles etc because the episode was good enough to be forgiven :)
I really liked Rose giving off Doctor techno babble and the UNIT people's reaction. It was good to see her... she makes a great mystery woman, haha.

OH, and SQUEEE! at the whole last minutes with the Bad Wolf adn cloister bells! Loved DT's expression when he heard Bad Wolf.

Bring on next week!!

speaking of which...Doctor Donna Rose MArtha Jack Gwen Ianto Sarah-Jane Luke (and Mickey and Jackie who weren't in the trailer) SQUEEEEEEEEEE! They really are bringing the entire universe adn their wife for this series finale, aren't they?

Reefgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 02:09 AM
What was that ep from when I were a lass when those guys had those huge spiders on their backs? I was thinking it might be one of them. The beetle was faintly ridiculous to me.

But I absolutely loved that ep, and it had the Gruesomes absolutely enthralled.
Planet of the Spiders?


I had the same problem I had with the vespiform. Why did the trickster look so precisely like a terrestrial beetle, just big? Still, it was a small problem and mostly outweighed by the sheer creepiness of the way it kept trying to eat her hair when it was visible and the reactions of other characters when it was invisible.

Absolutely agree with all the good things said about CT, and I really loved seeing the Donna who never changed and remained the same self-absorbed woman who never noticed the Cyberinvasion. Bernard Cribbins was also awesome, proving his chops as more than just a comic actor, especially in that scene where the Italian family are being taken away.

Actually, that scene was just made of win, with the Italian father still trying to put on a brave face for everyone and Donna finally getting a clue as to what was really going on.

Yeah, I liked this one. Although what was going on with Billie Piper's voice? Has she had work done (badly) on her teeth or something?
I think Billie Piper's lost a lot of weight, she's definitly skinnier here than she was in Series 1 & 2 and it shows in her face, making her teeth stick out a bit more IMO, or for some bizzare reason they made her wear Harry Enfield's Tim-Nice-But-Dim teeth

huntress
June 22nd, 2008, 04:04 AM
:flails: Holy phaser, Batman! That was fantastic!!!!!!!!! I LOVED this episode so much and the preview for next weeks SQUEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!


I love "What if stories and this one was fantastic. I already started squeeing when I saw Billie in the credits =) The world without the doctor. This story was so not for a newbie for the series- not even for someone who started watching with the fourth series because it starts with the X-Mas Special from the second series and goes from there. What if Donna wasn't there to help the doctor. A doctor who was in a deep dark pit of despair gives up and decides not to regenerate basically commits suicide and the world without the doctor is terrible - a complete nightmare. Martha was killed and not the doctor was there in the hospital but Sarah Jane (who looked gorgeous in the shot shown in the news section) who also didn't make it. London was nuked and the Adipose took over the US and Torchwood had to save the world from the Sontarans. Without the doctor no one lives but everyone dies and then BAD WOLF !!!!!!!! Plus the preview. Jack holding Ianto, Sarah Jane is there, Rose is back, Martha :hugs: and...oh yeah and Gwen was there too -_- To have all the Who series combined in one series is beyond cool!

Something about Billie - what was wrong with her teeth. In some scenes she had some serious trouble speaking properly. Was that intentional or did she have a recent root canal treatment? It was weird and she looked rather drawn. She said in an interview that she has some problems again with her eating disorder and it showed. She has lost a lot of weight and not in a good way

GREAT just GREAT!!!!!

Major Clanger
June 22nd, 2008, 05:27 AM
Isn't she pregnant? Not that it would affect her teeth, but that was really really irritating.


Reefie, no idea what ep it was with the spiders - but wasn't it the last eps with John Pertwee?

scarimor
June 22nd, 2008, 05:48 AM
Rose is on the warpath. Tally-ho! :D

Reefgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 05:59 AM
Isn't she pregnant? Not that it would affect her teeth, but that was really really irritating.


Reefie, no idea what ep it was with the spiders - but wasn't it the last eps with John Pertwee?
Is this the one you were thinking of MC? http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/planetofspiders/detail.shtml

I agree with you about the teeth, Rose-Nice-But-Dim :lol:

Alipeeps
June 22nd, 2008, 06:24 AM
Isn't she pregnant? Not that it would affect her teeth, but that was really really irritating.


Yeah, hubby at one point commented "She's had her teeth done" and she certainly did seem to have that very even, too-perfect American-style teeth thing going on. More and more celebs get that done these days so...

DigiFluid
June 22nd, 2008, 07:52 AM
Frakking AWESOME...... though a few plot holes.... Earth would of been conquered by the Carrionites in Elizabethan times, and by the Daleks in the 1920s....

I don't like to think of these little things as plot holes really....

One of the things about time travel in the Whoniverse is that certain events in history are immutable (ie: Pompeii) while the rest is in flux and it's only the major events that seriously alter history. I rather liked--and thought it appropriate--that for the most part history managed to figure out how to move on without the Doctor's help.

DigiFluid
June 22nd, 2008, 07:54 AM
American-style teeth

Um...what?

Dusk
June 22nd, 2008, 07:56 AM
Woah!! What an enthralling installment! And it's only just beginning! Just goes to show how screwed we'd all be without the Doctor, or more specifically the Doctor and Donna Noble.

As for the apparent "plot holes" with past events, one cannot assume the outcomes of those events when a key player is missing. Just because the Doctor wasn't there to stop the Carrionites, for instance, doesn't mean the events would play out for the worst. Other factors come into play that can in turn affect the outcome. Therefore, I don't believe that the aforementioned inconsistencies are valid.

I agree with all the fans out there that it was great to hear the TARDIS cloister. Icing on the Bad Wolf cake! I'd also like to point out the uniqueness of this episode in being a clipshow but also one of the best episodes this season.

As for next week, the spin-offs come spinning back, and it's gonna be one hell of a showdown in what looks set to be the biggest season finale yet!

DigiFluid
June 22nd, 2008, 08:11 AM
As for next week, the spin-offs come spinning back, and it's gonna be one hell of a showdown in what looks set to be the biggest season finale yet!

No kidding! I spotted Rose, Martha, Jack, Ianto, Gwen, Sarah Jane, the rhino guys, and a Dalek or two....did I miss anything?

stargatefan234
June 22nd, 2008, 08:14 AM
Frakking AWESOME...... though a few plot holes.... Earth would of been conquered by the Carrionites in Elizabethan times, and by the Daleks in the 1920s....

And I shall post more of my thoughts when I have watched it again.... but wow the end BAD WOLF

just say past day torchwood saved the day and move on. although...
(next week spoilers0


assuming the darkness has SOMETHING to do with the daleks, davros and Caan, a past day torchwood would have killed Caan and so the stars wouldnt be going out.

great episodes

cant wait till next week, i love daleks and to have their creator is the one thing that can top the master

Alipeeps
June 22nd, 2008, 08:42 AM
Um...what?

I was referring to the style of orthodontistry popularised in the US and in particular by US celebrities (and more and more popular with UK celebs) where the teeth are completely redone (if I remember correctly what I've read somewhere, often to the point of every tooth being filed down and capped) to give a perfectly straight, regular, and (to a British eye) sometimes unnatural-looking appearance.

ShadowMaat
June 22nd, 2008, 10:01 AM
Hollywood maybe, but I don't think I've ever seen any regular off-the-street Americans with too-perfect teeth.

Reefgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 10:10 AM
No kidding! I spotted Rose, Martha, Jack, Ianto, Gwen, Sarah Jane, the rhino guys, and a Dalek or two....did I miss anything?
Harriet Jones


just say past day torchwood saved the day and move on. although...
Difficult since Torchwood was founded by Queen Victoria, not Elizabeth I

The_Carpenter
June 22nd, 2008, 10:29 AM
Harriet Jones


Difficult since Torchwood was founded by Queen Victoria, not Elizabeth I
Indeed though someone on DWF came up with idea that the problems that ten couldn't solve (on account of being dead) got delegated to previous Docs as the timeline rearranged....

From Gigasahab at Doctor Who Forums


It doesn't quite fit with my ideas if how time travel works in the Dr Who universe, but it's worth considering -- Maybe, it was PREVIOUS INCARNATIONS of The Doctor.

Imagine, in the original timeline, the Fourth Doctor landing in London, March 1600 & having a quiet look around, watching a play, having a cup of tea, and going off about his business.

Now imagine him, in the revised timeline, landing in the same period & finding England over-run by Carrionites. "Oh deary me, " he says, "I'd best do something about this"...

Just a thought!

I love this explanation... just for the fun of having past Doctors having those adventures ;)

Empress Vajnraa
June 22nd, 2008, 10:31 AM
4. But what/who the hell would be turning out the stars like that.

Well,
If the Daleks were going on the warpath, conquering/destroying any species in their way then they might also be destroying stars (or turning them into black holes), thus making the stars go out. It would be an easy way to defeat a planet and use the resources to build ships or the organic matter to make more Daleks.

Reefgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 10:41 AM
Indeed though someone on DWF came up with idea that the problems that ten couldn't solve (on account of being dead) got delegated to previous Docs as the timeline rearranged....


I love this explanation... just for the fun of having past Doctors having those adventures ;)

That would work

Madeleine
June 22nd, 2008, 10:50 AM
But why was there an adipose disaster? It was only supposed to be bad because they rushed it when the Doctor and Donna stuck their noses in.


And the Guardian journalist. I expect there would have been an american journalist make the same sort of investigation, sooner or later. If they were slightly more competent than the Grauniad's reporter, they might have had the same effect.

huntress
June 22nd, 2008, 11:08 AM
Well,
If the Daleks were going on the warpath, conquering/destroying any species in their way then they might also be destroying stars (or turning them into black holes), thus making the stars go out. It would be an easy way to defeat a planet and use the resources to build ships or the organic matter to make more Daleks.

Maybe this is me being too nerdy here but that would acoount only for some of the stars because:

1. How do you explain the vanishing of quasars and oter galaxies. The Daleks might be good but they are not THAT good especially not that fast.
2. Also the light from most of the stars is light from stars that do not even exist anymore, the light is from galaxies and stars that existed at the dawn of the universe, when it was just forming after the big bang, the stars themselves are probably already gone and have colapsed either into planetary nebulas, white dwarfs or black holes, so how could such light vanish.

There must be another more fantastical explanation. Maybe

The other parallel universes are moving in on ours, due to the tempering of the Daleks who are stuck between the universes - in the seams of all the universes. Our universe is now crushed together because the dark force and matter is crushed and similiar to a stream that is being straightened the dark force and matter react more violently and is even stronger and distroy everything everywhere

At least that was we could at least use a bit of science in a more far fetched way - call it my funky way of putting a bit of m-theory and the theory on dark matter and dark force LOL

Reefgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 11:15 AM
Maybe this is me being too nerdy here but that would acoount only for some of the stars because:

1. How do you explain the vanishing of quasars and oter galaxies. The Daleks might be good but they are not THAT good especially not that fast.
2. Also the light from most of the stars is light from stars that do not even exist anymore, the light is from galaxies and stars that existed at the dawn of the universe, when it was just forming after the big bang, the stars themselves are probably already gone and have colapsed either into planetary nebulas, white dwarfs or black holes, so how could such light vanish.

There must be another more fantastical explanation. Maybe

The other parallel universes are moving in on ours, due to the tempering of the Daleks who are stuck between the universes - in the seams of all the universes. Our universe is now crushed together because the dark force and matter is crushed and similiar to a stream that is being straightened the dark force and matter react more violently and is even stronger and distroy everything everywhere

At least that was we could at least use a bit of science in a more far fetched way - call it my funky way of putting a bit of m-theory and the theory on dark matter and dark force LOL
Following on from that theory, it could be an effect of the Time War

Reefgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 11:16 AM
And the Guardian journalist. I expect there would have been an american journalist make the same sort of investigation, sooner or later. If they were slightly more competent than the Grauniad's reporter, they might have had the same effect.
Hee hee hee, I love that, I'd green you but I can't so have an unofficial one, :D can you unofficially green a Mod?

huntress
June 22nd, 2008, 11:30 AM
Following on from that theory, it could be an effect of the Time War

Sounds more plausible to me. I bet something went also wrong when they closed the Medusa Cascade, it was after all mentioned a couple of times in the fourth series so I will be damned if there isn't some story behind that.

The_Carpenter
June 22nd, 2008, 11:37 AM
And the Guardian journalist. I expect there would have been an american journalist make the same sort of investigation, sooner or later. If they were slightly more competent than the Grauniad's reporter, they might have had the same effect.
Or UNIT, or Torchwood acting unofficially.... ;)

Though Journalists poking their noses in could probably of done it either way same result

Mr Prophet
June 22nd, 2008, 11:54 AM
For the stars to all be going dark at the same time, it has to be something blotting them out, rather than destroying them; something moving in and getting in the way.

Dalario
June 22nd, 2008, 12:37 PM
So... it's been a while since I watched doctor who. Can anyone reminds me what was Bad Wolf and that Bell at the end ? If I remember correctly, they both mean that there is another timelord, right ? Or perhaps it's the daleks... can't remember. :rolleyes:

P-90_177
June 22nd, 2008, 12:42 PM
So... it's been a while since I watched doctor who. Can anyone reminds me what was Bad Wolf and that Bell at the end ? If I remember correctly, they both mean that there is another timelord, right ? Or perhaps it's the daleks... can't remember. :rolleyes:

Right. bit of explaining here. All through season one the ctor and Rose kept coming accross the words Bad Wolf in whatever Time line they were in. At the end of the series they face down the Daleks and Rose has to look into the heart of the TARDIS giving her god like powers. She scatters the words bad wolf accross time and space as a method of leading herself to that moment. Evidently she also did it in the future as well as a warning for the Doctor.

The Bell is the TARDIS Cloister bell. The TARDIS just does it when there's danger.

P-90_177
June 22nd, 2008, 12:44 PM
For the stars to all be going dark at the same time, it has to be something blotting them out, rather than destroying them; something moving in and getting in the way.

I have a theory that it could be those planets and stars being pulled into the void as the universes collapse.

ShadowMaat
June 22nd, 2008, 12:54 PM
Did we hear the Cloister Bell last year when the Master turned the TARDIS into a paradox device? I know that's when we last saw the red lighting.

Also, I'm with Mr Prophet- something has to be getting in the way of the stars (and something fairly close) rather than causing them to go out. Or if there IS a star-snuffer out there it was around hundreds of thousands of years ago if we're just noticing it now.

Empress Vajnraa
June 22nd, 2008, 01:06 PM
So what's the deal with the next episode, what's the title? Further more, why doesn't Gateworld have a topic for it?

Reefgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 01:19 PM
Did we hear the Cloister Bell last year when the Master turned the TARDIS into a paradox device? I know that's when we last saw the red lighting.

Also, I'm with Mr Prophet- something has to be getting in the way of the stars (and something fairly close) rather than causing them to go out. Or if there IS a star-snuffer out there it was around hundreds of thousands of years ago if we're just noticing it now.
I'm pretty sure the last time the Cloister Bell rang was in the Children in Need Special when the Doctor's last regeneration went wrong

Mr Prophet
June 22nd, 2008, 01:22 PM
Also, I'm with Mr Prophet- something has to be getting in the way of the stars (and something fairly close) rather than causing them to go out. Or if there IS a star-snuffer out there it was around hundreds of thousands of years ago if we're just noticing it now.

Of course, it's also possible that the darkness is catching up with the light from stars it has already swallowed. I wonder if it's moving from all directions or just one?

The_Carpenter
June 22nd, 2008, 01:49 PM
So what's the deal with the next episode, what's the title? Further more, why doesn't Gateworld have a topic for it?
The title was withheld for spoilers it called

The Stolen Earth

I guess Darren et al decided not to open a thread for the episode with out the title... dunno what will happen with that next week....

Alipeeps
June 22nd, 2008, 02:10 PM
Did we hear the Cloister Bell last year when the Master turned the TARDIS into a paradox device? I know that's when we last saw the red lighting.


Yup, we definitely heard the Cloister Bell then when the TARDIS was canabalized into a paradox machine.

Falcon 304
June 22nd, 2008, 02:44 PM
I found that to be a real meh episode. Once again, I felt the need for Donna/CT to die. Knowing RTD he'll make some crap up where Rose dies instead of her. I honestly felt like fast forwarding most of the episode. The insane amount of paradoxes got on my nerves (especially Rose) and I already knew before I started watching it that it was crap until the end. And UNIT made a time machine? Pfft, my ass.

I see everyone from Torchwood dying, just like the show. I'm 50-50 with SJ characters dying because it's/was not an action show.

2010 couldn't be any farther away...

Gate-builder
June 22nd, 2008, 02:58 PM
Totally awesome episode, the last 5 mins were especially awesome! Loved the cloister bell at the end, and the TARDIS is red, whats going on!

I never noticed Roses teeth like some people have been saying, but her voice sounded different to me.

One thing I didn't get is if Donna had never been drawn inside the TARDIS, then the Doctor would not have been on Earth to fight the Racnoss right? This wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff really does my head in.

P-90_177
June 22nd, 2008, 03:08 PM
Totally awesome episode, the last 5 mins were especially awesome! Loved the cloister bell at the end, and the TARDIS is red, whats going on!

I never noticed Roses teeth like some people have been saying, but her voice sounded different to me.

One thing I didn't get is if Donna had never been drawn inside the TARDIS, then the Doctor would not have been on Earth to fight the Racnoss right? This wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff really does my head in.

Well someone else most likely would have been given the dose of Huon energy and still sent to the TARDIS. but it wouldn't have been Donna. Someone perhaps not as strong a character who didn't go with the Doctor when went to face the Racnoss and if there was no one to tell the Doctor to stop then he would have most likely died inside there with the Racnoss rather than escapeing when he had the chance.

ShadowMaat
June 22nd, 2008, 03:44 PM
For the stuff in the past I'm gonna stick with the suggestion that the past Doctors picked up the slack. For more current events it could probably be a mix of Torchwood, Sarah Jane and maybe even UNIT picking up the slack.

As for someone dying next week... I think it'd be interesting if Donna did wind up dying. I love her to pieces, but I still think it'd be interesting. I would dearly LOVE for Rose to die horribly so that we need never be subjected to her again, but I also have a feeling she's enough of martyr as it is and that her death would push certain parts of fandom right over the edge. :rolleyes: Saint Rose. Gods preserve us. :rolleyes:

We haven't seen any Companions die (permanently) yet. We may be due... and Donna's noble sacrifice (get it?? Noble??) could add on some of that age that River Song has seen in him. Personally I'd love for her to stick around a while longer, but if she does get killed, I think they have a good set-up for something spectacular.

Flyboy
June 22nd, 2008, 04:21 PM
Title spoilers:

As the ep is called "The Stolen Earth" I'm thinking that maybe the stars haven't gone out, but the earth itself has been removed from reality, but gradually enough for the stars to go out bit by bit from our PoV and not all at once.


In any case, excellent ep, the salute between Granddad and the Iranian family's dad brought a tear or two to my eyes.

Alipeeps
June 22nd, 2008, 04:33 PM
Title spoilers:

As the ep is called "The Stolen Earth" I'm thinking that maybe the stars haven't gone out, but the earth itself has been removed from reality, but gradually enough for the stars to go out bit by bit from our PoV and not all at once.



Yeah, I was thinking that a bit too - especially given the references to all the other planets that have been "lost" (the Adiposian birthing planet, Pyrovilia, the Sontaran's cloneworld, the Lost Moon of Poosh etc etc). Also, at the end of this week's Confidential RTD made reference to the issue of the missing planets that have been mentioned... and that it's one of the elements that is going to pay-off in the finale..

Klenotka
June 22nd, 2008, 04:38 PM
I loved this. I like Donna and I am really happy to see her in her own episode. I don´t think it mattered that much for Doctor not being there. I liked it. And it almost looked like that for whole the mess was responsible Donna´s mother :D And Catherine Tate is a great actress. It was great idea to give the Doctor "older" companion and some normal woman.
Billie Piper can´t talk any more and her teeth are bigger than her head :D
Is Donna gonna die? I hope not cos she is great. But I guess it means something that the Doctor met her twice, and has also met her grandfather. Just a coincidence?
Next episode - Everyone will be there next time! :eek: I hope they will handle so many characters but I don´t think I should be worried here...well, I think that Martha will get kidnapped again... :D.

I am going to 10-days convention on Friday and I hope I will get a chance to see it there somewhere. If not I am going to have a heart-attack:D

huntress
June 22nd, 2008, 05:10 PM
Did we hear the Cloister Bell last year when the Master turned the TARDIS into a paradox device? I know that's when we last saw the red lighting.


Yes it did. It is interesting at what times the bell did ring

1. It rang shortly before the fourth doctor died and regenerated into his fifth form
2. it rang in the movie when the heart of the TARDIS was opened by the Master
3. It rang constantly when the Master turned it into a paradox machine
4. and it rang in "Time Crash"

So it isn't really clear why it rings. I think it usually does it when the TARDIS thinks it is in danger

Dusk
June 22nd, 2008, 08:47 PM
Is this the first time the TARDIS' chrono-energy has been utilized by an exterior device to induce a temporal shift? Neat-o.

Another first, at least shown onscreen in the new series, are times where the Doctor takes Donna to places to just look around and be immersed in culture without the immediate sense of danger. Here we see them wandering the markets of Xian Xien and trying local delicacies. The previous episode Donna got to live it up at the Crystal Palace for a day like a spa retreat. I appreciate seeing these moments, as it solidifies the reasons why companions continue to travel with a man so surrounded by danger and chaos. It is because when things are all well, there's a great big universe out there with so many wonders to experience.

Also, who is the woman with the Judoon towards the end of the trailer?

Pitry
June 23rd, 2008, 12:16 AM
Yup, we definitely heard the Cloister Bell then when the TARDIS was canabalized into a paradox machine.

Yeah, that was the way the Doctor knew the Tardis was there... I originally thought the red lightings were because of the paradox machine but now I dunno, maybe it was the Tardis itself responsible.

Alipeeps
June 23rd, 2008, 01:17 AM
Another first, at least shown onscreen in the new series, are times where the Doctor takes Donna to places to just look around and be immersed in culture without the immediate sense of danger. Here we see them wandering the markets of Xian Xien and trying local delicacies. The previous episode Donna got to live it up at the Crystal Palace for a day like a spa retreat. I appreciate seeing these moments, as it solidifies the reasons why companions continue to travel with a man so surrounded by danger and chaos. It is because when things are all well, there's a great big universe out there with so many wonders to experience.

Yeah, I love that. Obviously for the purpose of a TV episode, thrills and danger is what you want. But it's nice to think they have "off-screen" trips where they are just having fun and nothing awful happens! :D


Yeah, that was the way the Doctor knew the Tardis was there... I originally thought the red lightings were because of the paradox machine but now I dunno, maybe it was the Tardis itself responsible.

I don't remember him being able to find it because of the Cloister Bell - it seemed to me he was able to sense the TARDIS being there? I don't think we heard the bell until he got inside... At first he seemed thrilled to have found the TARDIS but that changed when he saw what had happened/heard the bell.

Stricken
June 23rd, 2008, 01:55 AM
I don't know what it is, but it seems that RTD has saved his best episode ideas for his last series as executive producer.

The idea of this episode worked really well as the Doctor-lite episode showing the path the world could have taken if the Doctor wasn't there to save the day. And after watching the confidential I wish this wasn't the "cheap" episode because having the TARDIS being blown to bits would have been good :D

Spoilers for Stolen Earth
Based around the trailer, I've come to the conclusion that "our" Earth is pulled out of what can be considered normal reality, you just have to look at the space shots and the shot of the sky from the trailer which aren't black but rather a greeny nebular. That also fits with the stars going out :D



Spoilers for Journey's End

As the Dalek master plan goes into action, the Doctor and the TARDIS face total annihilation. Earth's only hope of defeating Davros is a secret army of companions, but it is prophesied that one of them will face death.While someone may not nessicarly die and everyone lives to fight another day. I still think someone will;

Jack and Sarah-Jane - Extremely unlikely their spin-off shows wouldn't really work so well without them.

Martha - Doesn't make much sense for her to die, it doesn't exactly further anything now that she isn't a companion anymore.

Which leaves Donna & Rose, I just feel one of them is going to die they just feel like the only ones who can and have their death further the plot.

AvatarIII
June 23rd, 2008, 02:28 AM
I don't know what it is, but it seems that RTD has saved his best episode ideas for his last series as executive producer.

The idea of this episode worked really well as the Doctor-lite episode showing the path the world could have taken if the Doctor wasn't there to save the day. And after watching the confidential I wish this wasn't the "cheap" episode because having the TARDIS being blown to bits would have been good :D

Spoilers for Stolen Earth
Based around the trailer, I've come to the conclusion that "our" Earth is pulled out of what can be considered normal reality, you just have to look at the space shots and the shot of the sky from the trailer which aren't black but rather a greeny nebular. That also fits with the stars going out :D





Spoilers for Journey's End
While someone may not nessicarly die and everyone lives to fight another day. I still think someone will;

Jack and Sarah-Jane - Extremely unlikely their spin-off shows wouldn't really work so well without them.

Martha - Doesn't make much sense for her to die, it doesn't exactly further anything now that she isn't a companion anymore.

Which leaves Donna & Rose, I just feel one of them is going to die they just feel like the only ones who can and have their death further the plot.


response to journeys end spoiler
personally i don't think there is any doubt, after this episode that it will be donna that dies

Jonzey
June 23rd, 2008, 04:13 AM
response to journeys end spoiler
personally i don't think there is any doubt, after this episode that it will be donna that dies

But itn't that what everyone thought before the season 2 finale? Especially since Rose said she was going to die in the episode. This time she said Donna was going to die, but I think she was just being melodramatic again, referring to Donna jumping in front of the van and really not dying at all. I don't think RTD wants to kill anyone off in Dr Who, he just wants us to think he will.

Reefgirl
June 23rd, 2008, 04:13 AM
response to journeys end spoiler
personally i don't think there is any doubt, after this episode that it will be donna that dies
Has anyone heard if Catherine Tate has signed a new contract or has definitly said I am/am not going to appear in the specials, personally I think Rose is going to be the one, there's no where else for her story to go, she can't keep coming back to keep the shippers happy, she either comes back perminantly or they kill her off, no half assed stuff

AvatarIII
June 23rd, 2008, 05:30 AM
Has anyone heard if Catherine Tate has signed a new contract or has definitly said I am/am not going to appear in the specials, personally I think Rose is going to be the one, there's no where else for her story to go, she can't keep coming back to keep the shippers happy, she either comes back perminantly or they kill her off, no half assed stuff

that's what i want to happen but i don't think it will, going by spoilers i have read elsewhere. and also the whole thing at the end of turn left about donna not surviving regardless of if she saves the universe or not, and when she was talking to river song

was it just me and my flatmate or did anyone else notice billie has got a lisp from somewhere for this episode... :S

also, why would all the stars go out at about the same time from earths persective, because that would mean they have been going out for thousdands of years already.

Reefgirl
June 23rd, 2008, 06:07 AM
that's what i want to happen but i don't think it will, going by spoilers i have read elsewhere. and also the whole thing at the end of turn left about donna not surviving regardless of if she saves the universe or not, and when she was talking to river song

was it just me and my flatmate or did anyone else notice billie has got a lisp from somewhere for this episode... :S

also, why would all the stars go out at about the same time from earths persective, because that would mean they have been going out for thousdands of years already.

IMO the lisp is probably due to whatever she's done to her teeth

The_Carpenter
June 23rd, 2008, 06:07 AM
IMO the lisp is probably due to whatever she's done to her teeth
Yep.... and according to Digital Spy the lisps gone next week....

AvatarIII
June 23rd, 2008, 09:57 AM
it seemed to be going by the end of the ep, did she have them all straightened or something?

huntress
June 23rd, 2008, 12:50 PM
But itn't that what everyone thought before the season 2 finale? Especially since Rose said she was going to die in the episode. This time she said Donna was going to die, but I think she was just being melodramatic again, referring to Donna jumping in front of the van and really not dying at all. I don't think RTD wants to kill anyone off in Dr Who, he just wants us to think he will.

Nope. You have to re-watch the episode

When Donna tells Rose that she is not afraid because she knows that eventhough she dies, she will actually live because the reality with the doctor will come back and she is alive there and she has a future. Rose just looks at her sadly and says quietly. "I'm sorry." Also River Song looked stricken when she realized who Donna was and avoided to answer Donnas question where she is in the future.

I have a feeling that I will dissolve into tears again with this finale. Damn you RTD : sniff :

wise one
June 24th, 2008, 04:49 AM
it all went to hell once the doctor died

Pitry
June 24th, 2008, 06:57 AM
Has anyone heard if Catherine Tate has signed a new contract or has definitly said I am/am not going to appear in the specials, personally I think Rose is going to be the one, there's no where else for her story to go, she can't keep coming back to keep the shippers happy, she either comes back perminantly or they kill her off, no half assed stuff

She's definitely leaving after this series, I'm also pretty sure she's not in the Christmas special. Sob. Donna Noble, you shall be horribly missed. :(
but I don't think Donna dies. Too many hints this episode that she's gonna become Super!Donna - time moving "around her", like Rose said, the fortune teller saying not only "what are you" but the extremely weird "what will you be" and the Doctor pointing out there's too much coincidences around her.... they're doing something with Donna :) I think Rose is the one to go to - if she's already back in this reality, there's nothing to stop her from travelling again with the Doctor, which I'm very sure isn't going to happen - there would have to be a damn good explanation (i.e Rose dies) for her not to travel with him again.

Reefgirl
June 24th, 2008, 07:11 AM
She's definitely leaving after this series, I'm also pretty sure she's not in the Christmas special. Sob. Donna Noble, you shall be horribly missed. :(
but I don't think Donna dies. Too many hints this episode that she's gonna become Super!Donna - time moving "around her", like Rose said, the fortune teller saying not only "what are you" but the extremely weird "what will you be" and the Doctor pointing out there's too much coincidences around her.... they're doing something with Donna :) I think Rose is the one to go to - if she's already back in this reality, there's nothing to stop her from travelling again with the Doctor, which I'm very sure isn't going to happen - there would have to be a damn good explanation (i.e Rose dies) for her not to travel with him again.If that's the case, Super!Donna-wise, I hope that have plans for her to come back, I really want to see Donna again

wise one
June 24th, 2008, 07:41 AM
shouldnt earth already been destroyed by the creatures in fires of pompei???

cos if it wasnt for the doctor the fire creatures would of converted earth into their new homeworld??

Dusk
June 24th, 2008, 07:59 AM
shouldnt earth already been destroyed by the creatures in fires of pompei???

cos if it wasnt for the doctor the fire creatures would of converted earth into their new homeworld??

Look back over the thread, I think the issue has been addressed, but people are still divided over it. For instance, in regards to Pompeii, perhaps another incarnation of the Doctor came along around this time period and was able to stop the situation, or someone/thing else stepped in. We can't possible predict a timeline once it becomes altered beyond our comprehension.

Bray
June 24th, 2008, 08:02 AM
I liked it, I'm surprised with CT I thought I would hate her but she's actually really good.

Did anyone else think that Rose sounds...different to the old Rose? It's like she sounded retarded...but maybe that's just the BBC iPlayer :S

Alipeeps
June 24th, 2008, 08:06 AM
I think Rose is the one to go to - if she's already back in this reality, there's nothing to stop her from travelling again with the Doctor, which I'm very sure isn't going to happen - there would have to be a damn good explanation (i.e Rose dies) for her not to travel with him again.

And then we'll get angsty Doctor! Yaaaaaaaaay! :D


shouldnt earth already been destroyed by the creatures in fires of pompei???

cos if it wasnt for the doctor the fire creatures would of converted earth into their new homeworld??

I know there's been various theories about how such things might have been resolved but however you retcon it, the simple fact is that in the scope of this one episode, they could only deal with the events that happened in the modern-day timeline of Alt!Donna's life. Trying to explain away, in this episode, why the world didn't end at the time of Pompeii or Shakespeare is just far too fiddly and complicated.

Lee1818
June 24th, 2008, 08:38 AM
the thing about the doctor not regerating again is prob he just lost rose and probley lost the woman that was dosed with the partical things and thought its prob to much n just gave up, and rose she may be more mature grown up less 'chav'

Celestial
June 24th, 2008, 09:00 AM
A fantastic episode. Loved CT's acting and I've really warmed to her character. I've actually grown to like her character development this season and have found her to be a more enjoyable companion for the Doctor.

Never expected the Bad Wolf twist - brilliant! And the bug like sound....creepy!

Loved the TARDIS sounding it's Cloister Bell and emitting that red light and the look on the Doctor's face.

Can't wait to see a lot of character cross-overs next episode, does this mean.....

that the entire Series is finishing altogether or is it only a Season Finale?
And....has anyone speculated that it may be the Doctor yet again who may die (and regenerate) to save the world and the entire Universe? Is David Tennant coming back for next season if there is a next season? I'm not up to date on who's coming back or not apart from CT

Alipeeps
June 24th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Can't wait to see a lot of character cross-overs next episode, does this mean.....

that the entire Series is finishing altogether or is it only a Season Finale?
And....has anyone speculated that it may be the Doctor yet again who may die (and regenerate) to save the world and the entire Universe? Is David Tennant coming back for next season if there is a next season? I'm not up to date on who's coming back or not apart from CT

The nex two episodes are the final episodes in this season. There will not be a full season next year but instead will be I think 4 "specials" (probably longer than a normal episode length) throughout the year. There will then be a full season again airing in 2010.

It's unlikely the Doctor dies and regenerates at the end of this Season as DT has already filmed the Christmas special and I believe is signed up for the specials. Whether he returns for the full season in 2010 has yet to be determined - last I heard, he claimed he hadn't been asked yet and that if and when he was asked he would think about it. :)

AvatarIII
June 24th, 2008, 09:49 AM
And then we'll get angsty Doctor! Yaaaaaaaaay! :D



I know there's been various theories about how such things might have been resolved but however you retcon it, the simple fact is that in the scope of this one episode, they could only deal with the events that happened in the modern-day timeline of Alt!Donna's life. Trying to explain away, in this episode, why the world didn't end at the time of Pompeii or Shakespeare is just far too fiddly and complicated.

it's quite simple really, for donna to have turned right, she must first have been born, and she could not have been born in a world that was destroyed therefore "turn-right-land" must be an AU where neither of the historical events happened at all, it's only 2 events in the whole of time, and as the doctor said the timeline reshaped around donna.

basically, as other people have said... wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff :D

Pitry
June 24th, 2008, 10:05 AM
And then we'll get angsty Doctor! Yaaaaaaaaay! :D


*hugs poor angsty Doctor* ;)

Gabriel_Lecter
June 24th, 2008, 06:50 PM
that the entire Series is finishing altogether or is it only a Season Finale?
And....has anyone speculated that it may be the Doctor yet again who may die (and regenerate) to save the world and the entire Universe? Is David Tennant coming back for next season if there is a next season? I'm not up to date on who's coming back or not apart from CT

the Doctor's hand might somehow regenerate. It's been mentioned in all of the seasons so far. So he may well die and regenerate from that.

Gate-builder
June 24th, 2008, 07:53 PM
the Doctor's hand might somehow regenerate. It's been mentioned in all of the seasons so far. So he may well die and regenerate from that.

I think the hand will play a part somehow. RTD said that there will be a regeneration this season, so unless the Master shows up that only leaves the Doctor. But 10 will be around next year so its all a bit confusing.

P-90_177
June 24th, 2008, 08:32 PM
A fantastic episode. Loved CT's acting and I've really warmed to her character. I've actually grown to like her character development this season and have found her to be a more enjoyable companion for the Doctor.

Never expected the Bad Wolf twist - brilliant! And the bug like sound....creepy!

Loved the TARDIS sounding it's Cloister Bell and emitting that red light and the look on the Doctor's face.

Can't wait to see a lot of character cross-overs next episode, does this mean.....

that the entire Series is finishing altogether or is it only a Season Finale?
And....has anyone speculated that it may be the Doctor yet again who may die (and regenerate) to save the world and the entire Universe? Is David Tennant coming back for next season if there is a next season? I'm not up to date on who's coming back or not apart from CT

The reason why it's being treated as an extra special episode with so many guest characters is becuase it is more or less Doctor Whos 200th storyline. (Not episode. Storyline) So they're trying to make it extra special. I think it's also the 45th anniversary of Doctor Who and it's Also RTD's last couple of episodes as producer before Steven Moffat takes over so there are a lot of things to make these next two eps very special.

SaberBlade
June 24th, 2008, 09:11 PM
I think the hand will play a part somehow. RTD said that there will be a regeneration this season, so unless the Master shows up that only leaves the Doctor. But 10 will be around next year so its all a bit confusing.

Or his daughter Jenny, as she may have regenerated considering she's gallifreyan

Reefgirl
June 25th, 2008, 12:06 AM
I think the hand will play a part somehow. RTD said that there will be a regeneration this season, so unless the Master shows up that only leaves the Doctor. But 10 will be around next year so its all a bit confusing.
I wonder if it has something to do with what is supposed to happen to Donna, highly unlikely I know but a girl can dream


Or his daughter Jenny, as she may have regenerated considering she's gallifreyan
She's not a timelord tho

AvatarIII
June 25th, 2008, 02:50 AM
I wonder if it has something to do with what is supposed to happen to Donna, highly unlikely I know but a girl can dream


She's not a timelord tho

we don't know enough about gallifreyan physiology and biology to really speculate, she does have two hearts, and i read somewhere one that fanon says you dont get your second heart until your second regeneration, and she's a clone of the doctor, who's to say the regeneration ability is not genetically encoded? therefore a clone of a timelord would also have all the timelords abilities.

Dusk
June 25th, 2008, 03:43 AM
"Don't get chippy with me, Vera Duckworth! Pop yer clogs on and go feed t'whippets!!"

Bwahaha! Tate's lines are always so stinging.

On second viewing, I also really like Capt. Magambo of UNIT, and I hope we see her again.

It's also interesting to note that Rose jumps realities to look for the Doctor, as if he only exists in one nexus. Otherwise why would she be spending so much time looking for our Doctor when she could find another?

huntress
June 25th, 2008, 03:56 AM
And then we'll get angsty Doctor! Yaaaaaaaaay! :D

Is it twisted when I say that I love dark and angsty doctor? I like him better when he is NOT happy but then again I am a fan of "Battlestar Galactica" LOL :rolleyes:

Reefgirl
June 25th, 2008, 05:09 AM
"Don't get chippy with me, Vera Duckworth! Pop yer clogs on and go feed t'whippets!!"

Bwahaha! Tate's lines are always so stinging.

On second viewing, I also really like Capt. Magambo of UNIT, and I hope we see her again.

It's also interesting to note that Rose jumps realities to look for the Doctor, as if he only exists in one nexus. Otherwise why would she be spending so much time looking for our Doctor when she could find another?
That line was perfect

I was hoping beyond hope that she'd say I'm Brigadier Bambera but I guess she's retired now.

Interesing point

Alipeeps
June 25th, 2008, 06:51 AM
That line was perfect


I found it particularly entertaining as I live in (though am not from originally) Leeds! :D

huntress
June 25th, 2008, 10:52 AM
It's also interesting to note that Rose jumps realities to look for the Doctor, as if he only exists in one nexus. Otherwise why would she be spending so much time looking for our Doctor when she could find another?

You know, I was thinking the same thing. Why is there no doctor in the alternative universe. We know why there was no second Rose but everyone else existed. Why is our universe the only one that has the doctor and the others don't. Strange.

Gabriel_Lecter
June 25th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I think the hand will play a part somehow. RTD said that there will be a regeneration this season, so unless the Master shows up that only leaves the Doctor. But 10 will be around next year so its all a bit confusing.

I'm pretty sure the regeneration has something to do with River Song's version of the Doctor, so there might be two Doctors running around doing their thing. But they would have to separate and go their separate ways, for it all to make sense to the show. it explains the different characteristics River explained.

padr49904
June 26th, 2008, 06:55 PM
spoiler for upcoming episode
Luke, Sarah Jane's adopted son was in the preview I think.

scarimor
June 27th, 2008, 05:53 AM
For the stars to all be going dark at the same time, it has to be something blotting them out, rather than destroying them; something moving in and getting in the way.
Worlds are disappearing. The bees are disappearing.

Jonzey
June 27th, 2008, 08:38 AM
You know, I was thinking the same thing. Why is there no doctor in the alternative universe. We know why there was no second Rose but everyone else existed. Why is our universe the only one that has the doctor and the others don't. Strange.

The doctor gets in loads of trouble everywhere he goes. It's possible most of the AU doctors have died on their adventures and not regenerated/run out of regenerations/were killed in the time war.

There's a doctor in our universe, and there was one in the altered universe until he drowned.

Reefgirl
June 28th, 2008, 02:11 AM
A thought came to me while I was in the bath a couple of days ago, we've all heard the rumours about Donna dying but not dying and some kind of regeneration is going to happen, could it be...Donna looks into the heart of the Tardis and becomes Bad Wolf

Jonzey
June 28th, 2008, 03:32 AM
A thought came to me while I was in the bath a couple of days ago, we've all heard the rumours about Donna dying but not dying and some kind of regeneration is going to happen, could it be...Donna looks into the heart of the Tardis and becomes Bad Wolf

God I hope not. They can't use that same plot device twice. What about if Donna is a Time Lord in disguise and regenerates? Oh wait, we had that one before too.

In my experience one never has good ideas in the bath.

Reefgirl
June 28th, 2008, 05:28 AM
God I hope not. They can't use that same plot device twice. What about if Donna is a Time Lord in disguise and regenerates? Oh wait, we had that one before too.

In my experience one never has good ideas in the bath.
That's true, about the bath, I usually listen to my iPod to stop me falling asleep but not this time

But

I meant Donna turning into Bad Wolf perminantly, becoming a sort of 'Guardian of the Universe' making sure the Daleks and others are kept on a short leash

nx01a
July 1st, 2008, 12:07 PM
This episode had me bummed. Wonderful acting. Great writing and continuity from RTD. But geez... How depressing, especially for the episode I watched on my birthday. The theme of choices made, opportunities lost... Sigh.

The Good:
-Continuity. The various attacks and the use of all our human resources that have died to save humanity.
-Saving ourselves. I'm happy to see that we are able to help ourselves. We don't NEED the Doctor all the time, but we do need his influence. Of course, we need to train more people considering the rate we lose the good ones, but losing one or two people per invasion is more than acceptable. Captain Jack as a captive of the Sontarans... Lol.
-Rose. Sigh. She's competent, bless her. Refusing to say her name, saying 'sorry, so sorry', using words like 'flux':P, etc. She's the Doctor!
-The acting! Donna and her mother and gramps were wonderful in this episode. Especially her mother.
-Her mother. There's despair and then there's despair. She's completely given up on life and her daughter. RTD's worst example of a mother yet.
- BAD WOLF!
-The disappearing suns/worlds. If it's linked with the bad Wolf concept, then it's linked with Rose and the Eye of Harmony and the Daleks. On the other hand, it's also most likely related to the Medusa Cascade and the rift the Doctor sealed during the Time War. YAY. Time War! Daleks?!
-Poor Donna. She just keeps experiencing these alternate lives. If she DOES have to die, I'd be sad, but I have to say it would be an interesting move. None of the current companions have died, so this would be a nice move. She's 'special' somehow... Perhaps she's actually a Dalek uber-weapon. :P
-The urban sink conditions Donna and the others had to live in... Labour camps... Sadly, a natural progression of human nature in the face of crises. I'm glad neither gramps or the immigrant actually said what was really going on. It's far more powerful than screaming and waving 'NAZIDEATHCAMPSGASCHAMBERSJEWS!!!"
-The fortune teller. Was she also the first Sybil from 'Pompeii'?
-The red TARDIS. Looks alot like it did when the Master turned it into a Paradox Machine. Definitely some sort of alternate reality thing going on here.
-Spotlights and full length mirrors as a time machine. Giggle.

The Bad:
-Nothing really irked me.

The Verdict:
More of the same. Definitely. Especially from RTD, whose episodes for me are usually just too flowery. This and 'Midnight' have really impressed me. I just hope this season finale features a resolution that won't be completely ridiculous.

nx01a
July 1st, 2008, 01:26 PM
You know, I was thinking the same thing. Why is there no doctor in the alternative universe. We know why there was no second Rose but everyone else existed. Why is our universe the only one that has the doctor and the others don't. Strange.I assume it has something to do with him being a Time Lord, and Time Lords being the ones who used to police space/time/reality. Though the concept of one set of them policing an infinite # of potential universes... Ouch. No wonder they're so grumpy. Have we ever encountered Time Lords from alternate realities before?

Matt G
July 2nd, 2008, 02:45 PM
That's true, about the bath, I usually listen to my iPod to stop me falling asleep



What happens if your ipod falls into the bath though? ;)

Reefgirl
July 2nd, 2008, 02:50 PM
What happens if your ipod falls into the bath though? ;)
It's clipped onto the towel, it's a shuffle

Madeleine
July 6th, 2008, 06:24 AM
-The fortune teller. Was she also the first Sybil from 'Pompeii'?

No, but picture her with blue skin and antennae :)

She was Chantho in Utopia.

nx01a
July 8th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Chan-thank you-tho.

RDAfan61
July 12th, 2008, 08:38 AM
Yes thanks I was wondering where I had seen her before because she looked familiar.

CT was great in this ep. Wish she would continue but I think I heard she may not be? Too bad, she's been a very enjoyable companion. If she doesn't I hope they continue with the just a friend type of companion.

So just what is wrong with Leeds? :D

gateship777
July 16th, 2008, 08:49 AM
Yes thanks I was wondering where I had seen her before because she looked familiar.

CT was great in this ep. Wish she would continue but I think I heard she may not be? Too bad, she's been a very enjoyable companion. If she doesn't I hope they continue with the just a friend type of companion.

So just what is wrong with Leeds? :D

yeah CT showed she could act in this episode! the bit before she leaps in time the tears and everything...very good.

yeah need more mates!! rose and marth fancying him is ok but dont want every companion to be swooning over him! bring on male companion :D or another female mate :D

Jackie
July 18th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Loved the ep. Thought Donna (can't recall actress's name) carried the ep beautifully. Her acting was superb and I loved the tiff she in with her mother in the car. LOL.

The coming 2 parter looks cool too.

MasySyma
July 19th, 2008, 11:39 AM
I enjoyed this episode. It had a few glitches, but overall, I found it an interesting platform to reintroduce Rose and a nice setup for the finale.

The Good:
The Acting: DT, CT, almost everyone, did a great job.
Donna: Her character is just spectacular. I, too, wish she was staying.
The What Ifs: I loved seeing the alternate scenarios, and it was interesting that the Earth survived but always at the cost of other Doctor Who companions.
Bad Wolf: It was a great tie in to Series 1.

The Bad:
BP's voice: Something was distracting me from her lines. I wish her well, but this wasn't her best episode.
The Bug: The Beetle was cheap looking once it was finally revealed. It was so plastic that I half expected a Made-in China-label. It needed a bit more makeup, CGI, etc.

I look forward to seeing this episode without commercials when the DVD comes out. An 8.5/10

wwlh
July 21st, 2008, 10:37 AM
So just what is wrong with Leeds? :D

Too funny - I kinda hoped they were going to offer them Cardiff. Amazing job by CT...and also DT - The look on his face..you knew that he was hoping against hope that the two words were "Rose Tyler" and the despair when he heard "Bad Wolf"

nx01a
August 6th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Quick question...
Why and how on Earth [or whatever planet in whatever time that was] did 'Bad Wolf' show up everywhere at the end if Rose wasn't manipulating reality?

ShadowMaat
August 6th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Quick question...
Why and how on Earth [or whatever planet in whatever time that was] did 'Bad Wolf' show up everywhere at the end if Rose wasn't manipulating reality?

I assumed it was a leftover from TARDISRose. She/they spread that message across the whole of time and space and just because the plot has technically passed doesn't mean that we won't still bump into it from time to time. Or so I've always thought.

Pitry
August 7th, 2008, 09:47 AM
When she was SupeRose she could see all of time and space, she could probably see Turn Left as well and the need to warn the Doctor so she arranged it then. Methinks?

nx01a
August 7th, 2008, 01:10 PM
The dramatic way in which everything that previously didn't say Bad Wolf suddenly did isn't consistent with how Rose did it. Her references were subtle yet obvious. This was BAM! Bad Wolf everywhere out of nowhere. Rose's references were meant to bring herself to where she needed to be to be... the Bad Wolf.I prefer the Dalek Caan explanation. He did it. :D
It was Dalek Caan. Besides, I guess Caan was doing the same thing to get Donna to where he needed her to be.:S

Pitry
August 8th, 2008, 02:14 AM
The repeated mentions during series 1 were there in order to draw attention to the phrase - look. Doctor and Rose, Bad Wolf is important! - without disrupting the timeline by beating over their head with a bad-wolf shaped hammer.
there was nothing to disrupt the time line at the end of Turn |Left because the warning was delivered in its proper time, anmd it was urgent enough to use a sledgehammer of the Doctor's head with it.
Methinks :D

aboleyn24
August 8th, 2008, 11:20 AM
Quick question...
Why and how on Earth [or whatever planet in whatever time that was] did 'Bad Wolf' show up everywhere at the end if Rose wasn't manipulating reality?

This is a big question for me as well. I too assumed it was Rose when she was Bad Wolf, but I am still unsure if that is accurate.

I discussed this elsewhere and they seem to believe it was the tardis itself who did it. Showed examples of the tardis making these types of overt decisions and actions. I am not really on board for this theory either. I suppose its possible since Rose and the tardis do have a special connection that it did it on her bidding as she had contact with it in that alternative reality of Donna's.

Gate-builder
August 8th, 2008, 04:14 PM
When Rose absorbed the vortex, she could see "all is that is, all that was and all that ever could be" IMO she saw what the Daleks would go on to do and put measures in place to make sure the Doctor got there so he could help.

nx01a
August 8th, 2008, 04:22 PM
It's a good explanation, but a better one if offered in the finale. I'd hate to think that Rose's effects as the Bad Wolf are still stretching out across space and time; if that's the case, everthing that happens could easily be explained as her influencing it.

I prefer to think of Bad Wolf as a specific set of incidents that led to the S1 finale. Anything beyond is due to other influence.

Pitry
August 9th, 2008, 06:09 AM
It's a good explanation, but a better one if offered in the finale. I'd hate to think that Rose's effects as the Bad Wolf are still stretching out across space and time; if that's the case, everthing that happens could easily be explained as her influencing it.

I prefer to think of Bad Wolf as a specific set of incidents that led to the S1 finale. Anything beyond is due to other influence.

But the finale does not say this. The reference to Dalek Caan's manipulation in the finale is strictly about Donna - making sure Donna and the Doctor meet.

nx01a
August 9th, 2008, 09:21 AM
Spoiler tag that for those poor souls who haven't seen it yet!!!:D
Sure, it would be interesting and very circular to have Rose's Bad Wolf tampering culminate at the end of RTD's run, but how would Rose herself who doesn't remember her Bad Wolf experiences know to tell Donna to tell the Doctor 'Bad Wolf'? More manipulation by her past self or... [ominous music] something else?
Caan made Donna and the Doctor get to the right places at the right times to meet. I think Bad Wolf accomplished the same thing. I'm guessing Caan did the Bad Wolf bit to make the Doctor get back to Earth immediately, because his ultimate goal was the destruction of 'everything Dalek'. I mean, the 'end of the universe' could happen anywhere, and Bad Wolf just screams Daleks and Rose/Earth. Random 'doom' can happen anywhere, and it might have taken a while for the Doctor to get back to Earth and discover it missing.

Pitry
August 9th, 2008, 09:31 AM
Spoiler tag that for those poor souls who haven't seen it yet!!!:D

Caan made Donna and the Doctor get to the right places at the right times to meet. I think Bad Wolf accomplished the same thing. I'm guessing Caan did the Bad Wolf bit to make the Doctor get back to Earth immediately, because his ultimate goal was the destruction of 'everything Dalek'. I mean, the 'end of the universe' could happen anywhere, and Bad Wolf just screams Daleks and Rose/Earth. Random 'doom' can happen anywhere, and it might have taken a while for the Doctor to get back to Earth and discover it missing.
Sure, it would be interesting and very circular to have Rose's Bad Wolf tampering culminate at the end of RTD's run, but how would Rose herself who doesn't remember her Bad Wolf experiences know to tell Donna to tell the Doctor 'Bad Wolf'? More manipulation by her past self or manipulation by the current manipulator of the time stream du jour?

Eeek. You're absolutely right. Edited my original post.

Re the parts that are relevant to Turn Left and do not include spoilers.
I don't think Rose knew/remembered she made the "Bad Wolf" warning at the end of Turn Left. She did know, however, that "Bad Wolf" are two words that would mean nothing to everyone else but the two of them - thus avoiding the "change of a causal nexus" or whatever it was she gave as a reason to not giving her name ;) - but at the same time would alert the Doctor - because she knows something bad is happening in the universe, she knows the Doctor said the realities are forever closed, and so if he knows she can pass through dimensions, he knows something is very very wrong. Rose herself at the time doesn't know what is going on, just that the Doctor should be alerted. Bad Wolf is the best way without spelling it out.
The rest of hte Bad Wolf bits are a Super!Rose who knows everything and in a bit of Tardis-like humour decided to drop a sledgehammer over the Doctor's head. :)

nx01a
August 9th, 2008, 09:51 AM
The 'secret code' bit I can buy, but as for more Bad Rose manipulation... If she had all this power and foresaw these events, then why didn't she also 'divide the atoms' of the Dalek fleet in the finale? It could go either way, I suppose. But I prefer my way.:D

aboleyn24
August 10th, 2008, 04:25 PM
Spoiler tag that for those poor souls who haven't seen it yet!!!:D
Sure, it would be interesting and very circular to have Rose's Bad Wolf tampering culminate at the end of RTD's run, but how would Rose herself who doesn't remember her Bad Wolf experiences know to tell Donna to tell the Doctor 'Bad Wolf'? More manipulation by her past self or... [ominous music] something else?
Caan made Donna and the Doctor get to the right places at the right times to meet. I think Bad Wolf accomplished the same thing. I'm guessing Caan did the Bad Wolf bit to make the Doctor get back to Earth immediately, because his ultimate goal was the destruction of 'everything Dalek'. I mean, the 'end of the universe' could happen anywhere, and Bad Wolf just screams Daleks and Rose/Earth. Random 'doom' can happen anywhere, and it might have taken a while for the Doctor to get back to Earth and discover it missing.

But Rose herself told the daleks in Doomsday that it was she who destroyed the dalek fleet (in the season 1 finale). I never quite figured out if Rose finally remembered parts or all of what happened or if The Doctor gave her the cliff notes version.

nx01a
August 11th, 2008, 11:52 AM
I'm guessing he gave her the highlights.

Coco Pops
September 20th, 2008, 04:52 AM
In the alternate timeline Donna experiences all the stuff we've seen happens more or less..

So in thie alternate timeline was there The Master? He was the one who ordered the Racknoss ship shot down remember.

nx01a
September 21st, 2008, 12:25 PM
Since the Doctor never went to the future, the Master was never 'revived'. We didn't see the Valiant in the alt. reality since the Master would have helped build it. We didn't hear the soldiers say that their action was authorized by Mr. Saxon since there was no Mr. Saxon. Someone else gave the order to blow the thing out of the sky.;)

Coco Pops
September 21st, 2008, 05:11 PM
Since the Doctor never went to the future, the Master was never 'revived'. We didn't see the Valiant in the alt. reality since the Master would have helped build it. We didn't hear the soldiers say that their action was authorized by Mr. Saxon since there was no Mr. Saxon. Someone else gave the order to blow the thing out of the sky.;)


OK that cleared that up thanks........


"ooh stolen Earth is loaded with cheese"

gateship15
October 1st, 2008, 03:24 AM
this is a great episode i love the donna different dementioned thing. i agree that the master wouldn't be revived if he was there.but i belive that like the doctor there may only be one of him since he is a time lord and the time lords use to be able to travel from dememtion to demention with out the risk of meeting themselves. but i don't know if since the time lords shut the rifts that a ultinate master can be made

Coco Pops
October 1st, 2008, 08:09 AM
When Rose absorbed the vortex, she could see "all is that is, all that was and all that ever could be" IMO she saw what the Daleks would go on to do and put measures in place to make sure the Doctor got there so he could help.


If Rose could see all that. then why is it unreasonable for her to have wiped out every single dalek in existence everywhere? The void excuse is just a neat reseet button.... Surely if she sees "all that ever was and all that could be" that also includes alternate realities

Ok I admit maybe I'm being a bit too picky.

Madeleine
October 9th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Seeing =/= noticing ;)

Coco Pops
October 9th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Seeing =/= noticing ;)



Pardon my ignorance but huh?

gateship15
October 10th, 2008, 01:55 AM
this is a great episode because it again shows that a parallel world is made but a decision being made differently and the effects that that decision can make. such as the doctor dieing because no one there to tell him to stop. it also show the importance of the doctor and how many people are saved because of him.

nx01a
October 10th, 2008, 04:28 PM
I believe Maddie meant that seeing is not the same as noticing. You can see an accident but not remember every single detail about it.

Coco Pops
October 10th, 2008, 04:47 PM
I believe Maddie meant that seeing is not the same as noticing. You can see an accident but not remember every single detail about it.


Oh ........ Yeah I can understand that. Just at first when I originally replied I had thought that having the whole time vortex thing in her head Rose could have seen all the possible universes too..... Hence why I thought she would have seen Daleks in other universes and also wiped them out

Coco Pops
October 16th, 2008, 02:11 AM
Who was the fortune teller working for?

Has anyone wondered about that?

pbellosom
October 18th, 2008, 08:11 AM
Who was the fortune teller working for?

Has anyone wondered about that?

Wasn't it said it was the Trickster?

Coco Pops
October 18th, 2008, 09:17 AM
Wasn't it said it was the Trickster?

Well it was mentioned that the beetle thing was part of "The Trickster's Brigade" but the fortune teller just sort of runs off.... Only folks who got to watch Sarah Jane Adventures would know more about the Trickster thing. The reference was too brief..

We don't get Sarah Jane in Australia (yet) so I had to look up info on the Trickster.

MmmmMcKAy
November 27th, 2008, 06:30 PM
Brilliant episode and very emotional. I loved seeing a world, and Britain in particular, where Donna had never met the Doctor. Wow, the world was a mess without the Doctor's continuing aid. And depressing. I cried...AGAIN, especially when the "foreign" families were rounded up and sent to work camps.

I really love Donna in this episode and her grandfather. He's always great but especially so here. Donna's very brave.

It was good to see Rose again too.

The BAD WOLF ending was pretty terrific. I can't wait to see what happens.

nx01a
November 27th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Well it was mentioned that the beetle thing was part of "The Trickster's Brigade" but the fortune teller just sort of runs off.... Only folks who got to watch Sarah Jane Adventures would know more about the Trickster thing. The reference was too brief..

We don't get Sarah Jane in Australia (yet) so I had to look up info on the Trickster.I got that the Trickster was a... trickster.:P The Doctor explained what the bug did, so I really wasn't too concerned.

Brilliant episode and very emotional. And depressing. I cried...AGAIN, especially when the "foreign" families were rounded up and sent to work camps.I think they were going for 'concentration camps' and 'gas chambers'.
It was a brilliant episode, my favourite of the season and in my top 3 of the new series.

gateship15
November 27th, 2008, 10:45 PM
i love that the doctor died because donna didn't tell him to stop showing that he needed her as much as she needed him i also liked how the world would have been in deep trouble with out the doctor.

dosed150
December 20th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Brilliant episode and very emotional. I loved seeing a world, and Britain in particular, where Donna had never met the Doctor. Wow, the world was a mess without the Doctor's continuing aid. And depressing. I cried...AGAIN, especially when the "foreign" families were rounded up and sent to work camps.

I really love Donna in this episode and her grandfather. He's always great but especially so here. Donna's very brave.

It was good to see Rose again too.

The BAD WOLF ending was pretty terrific. I can't wait to see what happens.

i dont understand how only grandad seemed to realise what was going on, wouldnt most people notice the obvious holocaust parallel

nx01a
December 21st, 2008, 07:44 AM
When you're caught up in that kind of horror, I don't think most of us would see beyond it to some vague similar horror we were taught about or saw on TV, like Donna. But I think people did very well know but, at the time, less 'foreigners' was seen as as part of the [final] 'solution' to the labour and other problems facing 'regular' Brits. Gramps and the head of the 'relocated' family both knew it, as did the rest of his family. People knew what was going on, but remained silent. They felt powerless. What could they do?

pbellosom
January 23rd, 2009, 07:16 AM
I rewatched Turn Left last night and though it still remains an amazing episode, after having watched the finale it really doesn't make much sense. What is up with Rose?! How does she know so much? How is she time travelling without the weird harnessy thing or a TARDIS (because it is implied that she's time travelling between her meetings with Donna).

Also, why were the stars going out? Is it Davros' machine because the Earth hasn't been stolen so what's powering it?

Coco Pops
January 23rd, 2009, 12:51 PM
I rewatched Turn Left last night and though it still remains an amazing episode, after having watched the finale it really doesn't make much sense. What is up with Rose?! How does she know so much? How is she time travelling without the weird harnessy thing or a TARDIS (because it is implied that she's time travelling between her meetings with Donna).

Also, why were the stars going out? Is it Davros' machine because the Earth hasn't been stolen so what's powering it?


Maybe the stars going out was small scale tests of the device... No idea here either.. Just a guess

Also one important fact. The stars are going out but due to the speed of light and the fact we see them from Earth that means that they were going out in the past..Not the present .

gateship15
January 23rd, 2009, 03:05 PM
I rewatched Turn Left last night and though it still remains an amazing episode, after having watched the finale it really doesn't make much sense. What is up with Rose?! How does she know so much? How is she time travelling without the weird harnessy thing or a TARDIS (because it is implied that she's time travelling between her meetings with Donna).

Also, why were the stars going out? Is it Davros' machine because the Earth hasn't been stolen so what's powering it?

i thought they explained that. the darkness was starting to go thro the worlds every world and it weakened the barrier between worlds allowing rose to go from one world to another. she did say she has been to many worlds. as for the stars going out the daleks said that the darkness would destroy everything in its path all life and it would keep going until there is nothing left maybe one of the parallel worlds this has happened or maybe like coco said it was a test of the power of the machine i do not know

pbellosom
January 24th, 2009, 05:02 AM
i thought they explained that. the darkness was starting to go thro the worlds every world and it weakened the barrier between worlds allowing rose to go from one world to another. she did say she has been to many worlds. as for the stars going out the daleks said that the darkness would destroy everything in its path all life and it would keep going until there is nothing left maybe one of the parallel worlds this has happened or maybe like coco said it was a test of the power of the machine i do not know

Surely destroying all the stars in the sky is more than a small scale test? I know she said how she was able to travel between worlds. What it didn't say was how she knew so much about what was going on and how she was jumping around time. Wasn't the reality bomb supposed to destroy all parallel universes as well so if it was detonated in a parallel world then the mainstream one should be gone as well. (Of course this then raises the point that if the universe splits every time something could go either way then we have universes where all the parallel universes were destroyed and universes where they are not which is a paradox)

nx01a
January 24th, 2009, 04:03 PM
Rose said that her Torchwood had a dimension cannon or somesuch they used to break down the already-weakened barriers between universes. Also, her alternate Earth is slightly ahead of our Earth in the timeline, so the effects of Davros' weapon were felt on her world before us and she knew what to expect. Or so RTD would have me believe.

Coco Pops
January 24th, 2009, 04:39 PM
Surely destroying all the stars in the sky is more than a small scale test? I know she said how she was able to travel between worlds. What it didn't say was how she knew so much about what was going on and how she was jumping around time. Wasn't the reality bomb supposed to destroy all parallel universes as well so if it was detonated in a parallel world then the mainstream one should be gone as well. (Of course this then raises the point that if the universe splits every time something could go either way then we have universes where all the parallel universes were destroyed and universes where they are not which is a paradox)


I'm tending to not think about it too much. Upon a second and third viiewing the reality bomb is a silly plot device. Basically a matter disrupter but on a unversal scale....

nx01a
January 24th, 2009, 09:15 PM
Silly? LOL!
I think it's the most powerful weapon I've ever seen in sci-fi.;) The end of everything! The stakes cannot get higher than that.

Coco Pops
January 24th, 2009, 11:41 PM
Silly? LOL!
I think it's the most powerful weapon I've ever seen in sci-fi.;) The end of everything! The stakes cannot get higher than that.


Yeah but basically it's a super doooper matter disruptor that breaks the bonds between molecules, but can do that over a very wide scale including through hyperspace, black holes and the gaps between dimensions....

Sorry I'm being picky

gateship15
January 25th, 2009, 02:15 AM
i agree with all that defently the paradox part so wouldn't the universe blow up or get ripped apart if the bomb went off so it would theoretically destroy the darleks. theoretically

Coco Pops
January 25th, 2009, 02:27 AM
i agree with all that defently the paradox part so wouldn't the universe blow up or get ripped apart if the bomb went off so it would theoretically destroy the darleks. theoretically


Of course it would..... Had they really used it the crucible would have beenno safer in the end then outside..... The energy would have zonked them out of existence too.

pbellosom
January 25th, 2009, 10:08 AM
Of course it would..... Had they really used it the crucible would have beenno safer in the end then outside..... The energy would have zonked them out of existence too.

Thinking about it now though Davros could have been lying about the Daleks being safe in the crucible. Genesis of the Daleks showed us that Davros would be happy destroying all life in the universe and he might have just told the Daleks they'd be safe so that they'd help him.

gateship15
January 25th, 2009, 07:11 PM
then what would have happened. is it like if we can't have the universe no one will kind of thing. because no one would have survived not even him.

Coco Pops
January 25th, 2009, 07:14 PM
then what would have happened. is it like if we can't have the world no one will kind of thing. because no one would survive not even him


:indeed:


I think deep down that is what he had in mind

gateship15
January 25th, 2009, 07:18 PM
i agree since he was stopped every other time he tried to destroy everything i think he thought that this was his last chance. in that case carn or what ever his name would have foreseen what would of happened if for some reason the doctor did not come. like if for some reason he died and did not regenerate

nx01a
January 26th, 2009, 06:39 PM
Davros said the Daleks would be protected from the matter-destruction, the only living things in any reality.

Coco Pops
January 26th, 2009, 06:44 PM
Davros said the Daleks would be protected from the matter-destruction, the only living things in any reality.


That's what he said...... but Davros is the biggest liar ever

nx01a
January 26th, 2009, 06:55 PM
He's not suicidal. His aim was to annihilate everything but himself and the Daleks.

gateship15
January 27th, 2009, 12:41 AM
yes but if it was a paradox how would Davros and his ship with everything on it be save if the whole universe is destroyed

Mr Prophet
January 31st, 2009, 06:31 AM
The reality bomb radiates out from the Crucible; the test showed that the effect could be refined and directed.

nx01a
January 31st, 2009, 01:17 PM
There is no 'paradox'. Davros and the Daleks aboard the Crucible were shielded and would be the only living things left. Rewatch the episode and see for yourselves.
And this conversation really belongs in the 'Journey's End' thread.

gateship15
January 31st, 2009, 06:52 PM
true but it came up here so we talked about it and your right no paradox

nx01a
January 31st, 2009, 08:24 PM
;)
To reiterate: LOVE this episode! For me, the most emotional of the season if not the new series, followed closely by Journey's End.

gateship15
January 31st, 2009, 08:33 PM
i think they work well together. because this episode and journeys end are so close together it keeps u interested and in the mood. this episode also makes way for what is going to happen later. i also loved rose in this episode

Replicator Todd
January 31st, 2009, 09:47 PM
I loved this episode as it showed how humanity needs The Doctor and he needs his companions! I also enjoyed the Bad Wolf cliffhanger at the end.

gateship15
February 1st, 2009, 12:46 AM
i totally agree i liked the fact that a world without the doctor is a frightening one.

flameling
February 2nd, 2009, 05:28 PM
Shows how many times the Doctor saved us.

gateship15
February 2nd, 2009, 10:48 PM
lol thats true to

ijffdrie
February 12th, 2009, 01:56 AM
loved the ep, seeing all the old companions and a torchwood cross-over

it's a shame i dont like the old doctor who series, so i dont know anything about davros

gateship15
February 12th, 2009, 11:09 PM
lol i didn't get to watch most of the old series so i didn't know much about him either

Ishay
April 27th, 2009, 06:18 PM
(((((ROSE)))))) and a world without the doctor ...scary how much we rely on him


thanks doc ......

Coco Pops
April 27th, 2009, 08:30 PM
(((((ROSE)))))) and a world without the doctor ...scary how much we rely on him


thanks doc ......


How did Rose get all that technobable knowledge? That was a bit out of character for her. hehe.






"runs to alternate universe to hide from the Rose fans"

gateship15
April 28th, 2009, 03:00 AM
:) i don't know but i guess being with the doctor she would have had to pick up on something ither that or shes been studying

Pharaoh Atem
April 28th, 2009, 02:21 PM
"runs to alternate universe to hide from the Rose fans"

just remember to turn left

Falcon Horus
January 21st, 2010, 10:56 AM
i dont understand how only grandad seemed to realise what was going on, wouldnt most people notice the obvious holocaust parallel

As is said in the commentary of Turn Left, the younger generation isn't always up-to-date on our war-time history. The stories need to be retold over and over again so that we can remember those horrible times. The three commenters (Catherine (Donna), Bernard (Wilfred) and Jacqueline (Sylvia)) agreed that hinting at the holocaust the way the episode did made us aware again of what happened 70+ years ago.

The first time that I saw Turn Left, I couldn't help the flashback of my visit to the concentration/extermination camp in Auschwitz, Poland. And the whole scene grows even more powerful when Donna runs after the truck and wants to know where they are going, the realization of the situation dawning on her.

And for the record, should anyone have to wonder, this episode in combination with The Stolen Earth and Journey's End, are the absolute favorite episodes of Doctor Who for me. (I'm a new Whovian - as in only familiar with the last 4 seasons). And Donna's definitely my favorite companion, with Tenth my favorite Doctor.

gateship15
January 21st, 2010, 10:03 PM
i love this episode i love the whole what would happen if the doctor died

Coco Pops
November 3rd, 2010, 10:24 PM
Was that military woman Rose met in this episode the same one that we see in Planet Of The Dead?

Ulkesh47
November 3rd, 2010, 11:02 PM
Was that military woman Rose met in this episode the same one that we see in Planet Of The Dead?
Yes. It is Erisa Magambo, of UNIT.

Bad Wolf
July 13th, 2012, 05:47 PM
The title "Turn Left", and the ensuing issues involving a turn either to the right or the left, was not just picked at random. The entire premise of turning to the left was a political statement in which, if the alternative choice was taken (turning RIGHT), would result in dire consequences, particularly with the result of the Bush doctrine and the conservative destruction of the British economy. The month it was released, shortly afterward Barack Obama underwent a surge of popular support and resulted in his stunning win.

I have no doubt that Davies used this alliteration in both the title and the direction of the script. It should be noted that it was science fiction fans in America who started the Obama resurgence, and this episode may have pulled off the blatantly subtle "Saxon" moment to get him elected by urging everyone to "Turn Left" politically, while the Dark side insisted, "Turn Right", ie, continue the Bush / Cheney military/energy/industrial complex of planetary destruction and despair.

Blencathra
July 14th, 2012, 03:48 AM
Why on earth would a British sci fi show be interested in American politics? Unless you have an article in which RTD specifically states it to be such? Surely if, as you say, the episode was politically motivated, then the audience was being encouraged to re-elect the Labour Party at the next British General Election.

BTW any direct references to America in the show are in an attempt to get American audiences to watch Doctor Who. I would have thought that any attempt to make a political statement to that audience may run the risk of alienating part of that audience. Something that I think RTD or SM, for that matter, would be anxious to avoid.

SaraBahama
March 27th, 2013, 05:10 PM
How did Rose get all that technobable knowledge? That was a bit out of character for her. hehe.
"runs to alternate universe to hide from the Rose fans"

I had the distinct impression that we were supposed to understand that she had been in that AU for several years...working with Torchwood. She grew up and gained new learning experiences from her new career (...watching 'Torchwood' would give you an idea of what a typical day is for them).

Time passes differently for the Doctor...more non-linear.

maneth
May 7th, 2013, 08:57 AM
Cool episode, and definitely made me hope we'll get to see Torchwood here as well. A Doctor Who episode without the Doctor...

Coco Pops
May 7th, 2013, 08:06 PM
I had the distinct impression that we were supposed to understand that she had been in that AU for several years...working with Torchwood. She grew up and gained new learning experiences from her new career (...watching 'Torchwood' would give you an idea of what a typical day is for them).

Time passes differently for the Doctor...more non-linear.


I've just been musing more on this episode and your post. The TARDIS was there. Did Rose understand her?