PDA

View Full Version : Midnight (3010/410)



GateWorld
April 23rd, 2008, 10:11 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/410.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 30</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">MIDNIGHT</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 3010</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Trapped with a group of tourists on the planet Midnight, the Doctor discovers that something is alive where nothing should be able to live -- and it's coming right for them.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Madeleine
June 14th, 2008, 12:36 PM
That was really atmospheric. It felt like it could have been an episode of a '70s or an '80s SF show, but for once I mean that in a good way.

Great acting from all, especially Carole-from-Eastenders and her son.

pbellosom
June 14th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Why is it always the episodes I expect to be rather boring that turn out to be the best? I had that last year with Blink and like last year this completely blew me away, has the writer of this written any other episodes?

This was brilliant, despite the fact that it was very obviously filler (only three sets) it really showed what can be done on a relatively small budget. Definitely the highlight of this season so far, if not the entirety of New Who's run.

The darkness of this episode was very surprising given that it was set on a holiday planet. When they started discussing throwing people off the ship it was disturbingly believable and it's moments like that that make me feel very ashamed of humanity.

Onto Arc words and there was a lot this week. The Medusa Cascade and more obsession over the Doctor's name than perhaps any other episode this season. I fully reckon that someone will find it out at the end of this series even if the viewers don't, there's no way there would be this build up without it. The Rose appearance was very similar to the one way back in the Poison Sky but still cool, once again my dad completely failed to notice it despite the entire rest of the family squeeing.

Admiral Mappalazarou
June 14th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Great episode, especially for RTD. Terrifying too.

Bray
June 14th, 2008, 12:55 PM
Hmmmm very Meh compared to the last couple, but not too bad to be honest, there are definatly worse episodes.

Next weeks episode looks immense though.

Bob790
June 14th, 2008, 01:24 PM
... has the writer of this written any other episodes?

It was RTD wasn't it? I think he's written over 20 other episodes including all the season openers and finales.

Guest750
June 14th, 2008, 01:31 PM
It seemed so short

Mr Prophet
June 14th, 2008, 01:33 PM
Now that was a rarity for RTD; an episode that was perfectly paced for forty-five minutes. You couldn't have drawn that one out longer, where normally the last few minutes feels horribly rushed. Good stuff.

The_Carpenter
June 14th, 2008, 01:47 PM
It was just awesome... Utterly atmospheric and plain terrifying mostly because of how easily the Humans on the shuttle changed from likable people into the kind of people who would throw someone out of a airlock because they don't understand them.

Bravo to RTD for honestly depicting Human Nature.... its new its different..... KILL IT. I wish it wasn't true but it is sadly.

Teddybrown
June 14th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Very well thought out
One of those ones where you think.. Whats going to happen next
Good acting all round
Another good episode from RTD

pbellosom
June 14th, 2008, 03:00 PM
It was RTD wasn't it? I think he's written over 20 other episodes including all the season openers and finales.

Was it? I'm very impressed, he has done good ones before but nothing of this calliber.

Matt G
June 14th, 2008, 03:29 PM
1. Usually the intro sets up the threat - here it sets up the fact that the Doctor's running solo. OK change

2. Airline cliches, meh - at least they could have made the "clasic Earth music" more familiar.

3. Once the actual attack starts...then it gets freaky. The Doctor's out of commision and he's counting on "this bunch" to save him?

4. "Don't...just, don't". Says it all, takes a lot to freak out the Doctor.

OK, but not exactly the best ep of the season!

Reefgirl
June 14th, 2008, 03:33 PM
*Note to self. Never watch the creepiest episode of Dr Who ever before going to bed*


That was really atmospheric. It felt like it could have been an episode of a '70s or an '80s SF show, but for once I mean that in a good way.

Great acting from all, especially Carole-from-Eastenders and her son.

Ah, so that's who it was, it was bugging me. The Professer bugged me too, for a while then I pieced it together and squealed "It's David Troughton, it's David Troughton!!!!"

Anyway on to important things, http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gif me, that was the creepiest thing I've seen on TV since Blink and why can't RTD write stuff like this all the time, why wait until he's leaving to give us his best stuff. Yes it does show the worst side of humanity and that's not comforting, the baying mob freaked me out a little, seen scenes like that here on GW and across other internet boards and, to my shame, I have been part of that mob and that is proabably why I got sucked in, it's so easy to give into your fears and let them take over. All in all, this was fecking excellent TV, showing humanity at it's worst and scaring the crap out of you at the same time. I shall be searching under the bed and behind the settee for many a day.

As for next week

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gifing hell I don't know what to make of it yet but it's going to be one hell of a ride, what is on Donna's back? and is she going to be another Adric?

Naonak
June 14th, 2008, 03:44 PM
That was very good. Very atmospheric and tense, and pretty dark in places.

David was great, especially in the scene at the back of the truck.

The guest cast were all very good. The episode could have been let down by a weak guest actor or two, but they all did a good job. And David Troughton really does look like a bald version of his father. :)


Bravo to RTD for honestly depicting Human Nature.... its new its different..... KILL IT. I wish it wasn't true but it is sadly.
Indeed...

Anyway, next week:
Planet of the Spiders, anyone...?

pbellosom
June 14th, 2008, 03:45 PM
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/Reefgirl3/Smileys/f_bleep.gifing hell I don't know what to make of it yet but it's going to be one hell of a ride, what is on Donna's back? and is she going to be another Adric?

I still reckon the RTD is doing like what he did for Doomsday, remember how convinced we all were that Rose would die?

Jonzey
June 14th, 2008, 04:00 PM
I still reckon the RTD is doing like what he did for Doomsday, remember how convinced we all were that Rose would die?

Didn't help how in the trailer for Army of Ghosts/Doomsday she said it was the story of her death. How melodramatic, Rose!

Onto this week's episode- I wasn't really looking forward to it much. It sounded a lot like money-saving filler. I didn't think it was a brilliant episode but it kept me entertained throughout.

It does bring me on to the one thing that bothers me about Dr Who though- it does have a bit of an identity crisis at times. Some weeks you can watch and just think ''oh this is blatantly a kids show'' (ironically enough it's usually the RTD episodes which make me think this) but then there's ones like this which deal with subjects that a lot of ''adult'' shows wouldn't.

I mean, a week or so ago I watched the 3rd Doctor adventure the Monster of Peladon, which was really political and dealt with the separation between the aristocracy and the working class. Don't see that on TV much.

But back to this one...
It reminded me a little of Lord of the Flies, the way they all start out on good terms then start to turn on each other at the first sign of trouble. And how quickly they turned to murder, despite the fact they were in no physical danger, was really chilling. At first I was disappointed that we didn't find out what the creature was or why, but I think it's more effective that way.

Oh and what an interesting planet- covered in diamonds with a waterfall of sapphires. Havn't seen that before either.

You really have to admire Dr Who for always coming up with original ideas like that.

And next week looks amazing.

huntress
June 14th, 2008, 04:12 PM
That was actually really scary. Not just an 'enemy within' thing, but 'the enemy is us'. It was a really interesting exploration of how quickly people can turn on each other, how quickly morals and ethics and civilised behaviour can break down. Who was it who said that civilisation is only three hot meals away from chaos or something like that?

I can see why Donna wasn't there, the story wouldn't really have worked with Donna there, because you never would have believed that the Doctor was in danger - there's no way anyone would have been throwing the Doctor out of an airlock with Donna around! But it's a shame, I love Donna so much any episode without her in is a bit of a letdown.

And Rose! Rose again! And she was definitely shouting 'Doctor' not 'Donna'! Eeeee!

And how awesome does next week look? *flails*

Alipeeps
June 14th, 2008, 04:45 PM
That was an awesome, really tense and freaky episode. And really, for a sci-fi show, very little actual sci-fi involved. Strip away the setting (alien planet) and the concept that whatever affected Sky was some kind of alien and you've basically got a story about human nature, about fear and paranoia and pressure and about how horribly quickly humans can turn to voilence as the answer. In effect, all Sky/the creature did at first was repeat everything they said and that was enough for them to start talking about throwing her out! Okay, it *was* damn creepy when she did that but still!

I'd been looking forward to this episode after what I'd read about it being something different, something very tense and scary etc and it absolutely did not disappoint. It was creepy as heck and very claustrophobic and just goes to show you don't need big bangs and spaceships and special effects to make absolutely gripping television. I rather like that it left things unanswered too - we still don't know what that creature was or what it wanted.

On a side note, I wanted to flipping smack those parents - they were the worst of the lot, freaking over the slightest thing and casting aspersions at the drop of a hat!

The Signal
June 14th, 2008, 04:56 PM
(copied from my brief comments on another forum)

This series hasn't exactly blown me away but "Midnight" tops every other episode this year and every single ep we've seen from Russ since the show started. It's about bloody time, but he's played to his strengths here and it worked perfectly. He got the plot down, nice and simple and turned it into a psychological, claustrophobic episode rather than his usual "explosions and running" style. Great dialogue and a fantastic (yet simple) enemy backed it up with some terrific guest characters. Marvelous.

Willow'sCat
June 14th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Normally I would be the first to defend RTDs eps, well mostly but this one just felt like the filler ep it was, the give CT a break ep if you will.

I have seen so many movies, TV shows over the years deal with this situation, most recently an ep of CSI, it just felt like RTD gave us nothing new here. If anything this one annoyed the heck out of me, there was no real sense of caring from anyone but The Doctor, and that is not new for him.

Human nature being what it is, well this ep was predictable, we knew what would happen and if you didn't know, you haven't been watching this show or any other. :cool::rolleyes:

I would have found it more interesting for The Doctor to have been thrown off, then not die and then learn more about whatever the 'creature' was... now that would have been scifi! This was nothing more then run of the mill drama. Run of the mill filler. Run of the mill, give a lead actor, a week off eppy.;)

So far this has not been a stellar series 30/4 :(

Next week... I really hope Rose and The Doctor don't meet (although I do want to stop the shipping!)

It seems likely that something has happened to him and in the end that is why all the companions have to come together. That would be interesting to see them without The Doctor in the mix.

Not sure what the thing on Donna's back is meant to be, hmm, should be fun to find out. :)

ShadowMaat
June 14th, 2008, 08:02 PM
Huh. I wasn't as blown away by the ep as some obviously were. The copying thing was kinda interesting, but the mob mentality thing has been done many times before and I didn't really feel that this ep brought anything new to the table in that regard. Plus it underscores a theme that I feel is becoming more and more obvious: humans are monsters. It kinda makes me wonder why the Doctor bothers with us at all. For every "good" person out there it seems like there are whole groups who are awful. Or maybe the Planet of the Ood thing bothered me even more than I realized.

I'd also like to know more about the entity. Yes, I get that it's supposed to be mysterious, but it had to have some kind of physical body in order to be pounding on the hull- and quite a powerful one if it could dent the side of the ship and smash open the cockpit. And yet it winds up being more like a thought virus, taking over the mind of Skye and then leaching the Doctor's energy. Or are we meant to believe that a big, malevolent thought smashed up the ship? What was the shadow the mechanic saw, then? And how come, in all this time, no one has ever encountered the creature(s) before? Because it's the sole entity on the entire planet and never ranges beyond that particular diamond field? The masses of hot-blood life in the resort were never enough to draw it closer? It never drew closer to the tour craft's normal route? What about that field was so extraordinary that it not only spawned this lifeform but kept it trapped within such a small range? How did it manage to affect the engines? And cut the wires? Heck, how did it even know to do these things? And why strip the covering off the chairs? I suppose it could be a side effect, but why? And how did it leave Skye undamaged? I should think her clothes, at least, would be a bit torn even if the entity needed Skye herself to be whole.

What was Skye's problem, anyway? Why was she so convinced that "it" was coming after her? I didn't quite follow all the dialogue in that scene, I think she was screaming something about her ex, but why would she (or anyone) want her dead?

And if anyone tells me I'm "overthinking" things I'll punch them in the nose. :P If I see something I don't understand, it raises questions. Those questions lead to MORE questions and soon I've taken the whole whatever apart and am surrounded by random bits and question marks. ;)

Gate-builder
June 14th, 2008, 09:29 PM
Pretty average episode really. Reminded me a bit of 42. I was a bit disappointed that the Doctor was never able to communicate with it, so we never actually found out anything about it, what it wanted etc etc. I find it really annoying when things are left unexplained. Going by the preview, next weeks episode looks much more interesting.

Pitry
June 15th, 2008, 01:07 AM
Normally I would be the first to defend RTDs eps, well mostly but this one just felt like the filler ep it was, the give CT a break ep if you will.


It's the double banked one, was shot at the same time as Turn Left,so CT was unavailable.

On to the episode itself - WOW! That's all I can say. Seriuosly. I'm usually in love with RTD episodes and this was no exception - creepy and scary - I think this is the first time I've been properly scared of Doctor Who, even more than them statues. Also, quite RTDish - very different to anything else we've ever seen in DW and well, no other writer would have dared saying the things he did about the human race in this episode. I hope that when he leaves and Moffat takes over that aspect of DW remains - that they're not afraid to go experimental. As for the mob, I think the mob mentality in this episode is different because of DW's attitude towards people - they're usually going on all about how humans are amazing and great and the things they can do, like LotTL - and now backing up the Master's claim of "greatest monsters of them all", in a way.
Poor Doctor. With all his belief in people and his being used to always be in control in the situation, this time he had neither. :( No wonder he was so shaken in the end - being possessed, have a bunch of stupid humans refuse to listen to you and becme murderous! *pats Doctor*

Oh, and how's that for a depressing view of the future - there's a leisure palace in a different planet and kids are still going emo! :D

pbellosom
June 15th, 2008, 02:05 AM
As for the mob, I think the mob mentality in this episode is different because of DW's attitude towards people - they're usually going on all about how humans are amazing and great and the things they can do, like LotTL - and now backing up the Master's claim of "greatest monsters of them all", in a way.
Poor Doctor. With all his belief in people and his being used to always be in control in the situation, this time he had neither. :( No wonder he was so shaken in the end - being possessed, have a bunch of stupid humans refuse to listen to you and becme murderous! *pats Doctor*


Exactly! New Who has always been about the fact that the evil humans have been in the minority. Yes there have been people who have done terrible things like the Ood guy but there have always been good humans as well doing the right thing such as the Freinds of the Ood guy, or Lynda with a Y. This episode was different, because everyone was part of the mob. Even the air stewardess who saved the day had earlier been chanting to throw skye out along with the others and if not for the Doctor saying Alons-y earlier she probably would have let him die.

Madeleine
June 15th, 2008, 03:04 AM
Even the air stewardess who saved the day had earlier been chanting to throw skye out along with the others and if not for the Doctor saying Alons-y earlier she probably would have let him die.

Yup. But that IMO enables a more positive view of things. The stewardess was the first to say "throw her out", and we had no way of knowing if she was saying it as a frightened person wanting to save her own skin, or as the last remaining person who was actually officially responsible for anything, trying to protect her passengers. The way she said it made me think the former, at the time.

It was certain that two men were dead, and for all the 'mob' mentality that was going on (Lindsey something, that was Carole-from-Eastenders' name, I think) there was a rational basis for believing the rest of them to be in danger.

The stewardess proved that ultimately, her morals were sound: she was as ready to let herself be the innocent one who got killed to save the rest as to let it be someone else. Who knows, if it had been one of the others who had that epiphany from the "Allons-y" then maybe they'd have done the same thing. Of course, none of them got the chance to redeem themselves, so they remain unredeemed; but as to the Doctor's view of humanity, I'm sure that the stewardess did a lot for the cause of humanity as a whole.

What I can see that a lot of people (here and elsewhere) got out of that was "Humans: hysterical, pack mentality, persecute the outsider", which was certainly there, but the stewardess showed that self-sacrifice is there too.

Anubis69
June 15th, 2008, 07:01 AM
I would have found it more interesting for The Doctor to have been thrown off, then not die and then learn more about whatever the 'creature' was... now that would have been scifi! This was nothing more then run of the mill drama.
Are you familiar with Rendezvous With Rama? I'd like to think RTD did that sort of thing intentionally. Something so advanced, something so "out there" that no one is going to work it out, not without significant studying. It just makes things realistic and that little bit more interesting IMO. If The Doctor were to know everything or even to work out things on first meeting, it would almost totally defeat the purpose of him travelling.

I loved it though. A great episode. So many things made me a laugh, think or be just plain weirded out.

Pitry
June 15th, 2008, 07:27 AM
What I can see that a lot of people (here and elsewhere) got out of that was "Humans: hysterical, pack mentality, persecute the outsider", which was certainly there, but the stewardess showed that self-sacrifice is there too.

You have a point there, but I think it's not because she was meant to show the regular heroic people we see on Doctor Who. I think the point was "even good people can do horrible things" - much lie Jethro's part. A good, smart kid, who didn't want to have anything to do with it but gave up to his mother at least on two crucial occasions - when he says he doesn't know if the thing moved and she goes "don't be stupid, of course it has" and then when he helps them drag the Doctor, a second after he said he doesn't want to murder anyone and wno't take any part in this... Much like DeeDee actualy who kept on going back and forth from ebing scared and wanting it to go away to try and point out it can't be the Doctor etc. - What I got from it is "Humans: hysterical, pack mentality, persecute the outsider - no matter who they are when they're alone."

pbellosom
June 15th, 2008, 08:48 AM
Did anyone find it interesting that though the mother kept screaming at people to throw the Doctor off the ship, when everyone tried to do so and needed more hands to help, she didn't do anything? She couldn't bring herself kill someone, but she was fine with driving her husband and son to it

wise one
June 15th, 2008, 10:56 AM
i think this thing has been lonely in the land for quite sometime

and that professor said nothing can live on the surface, then i thought what about underneath the ground

good episode

Pitry
June 15th, 2008, 12:02 PM
Did anyone find it interesting that though the mother kept screaming at people to throw the Doctor off the ship, when everyone tried to do so and needed more hands to help, she didn't do anything? She couldn't bring herself kill someone, but she was fine with driving her husband and son to it

Not jsut that... I also fond it quite telling that in the end when the Doctor asks for the Hostess names and they all go (well, silently with their faces) "OMG I've no idea" she just shrugs it off and doesn't seem to care much.
I guess it's also a part of the exterme realism of human behaviour in this episode. Good people can become frightening pack animals, too, but you still have those people who without being scared to death are still monsters.

Dusk
June 18th, 2008, 03:44 AM
Enjoyed it.
Enjoyed it.

Creepy.
Creepy.

Humans are the most evil of them all.
Humans are the most evil of them all.

RTD has issues with episodes set in our future.
RTD has issues with episodes set in our future.

All the characters looked like they just stepped off the Tube this morning.
All the characters looked like they just stepped off the Tube this morning.

That's not what the people would be like.
That's not what the people would be like.

Oh well.
Oh well.

Loved the hostess.
Loved the hostess.

Would you stop that now?
Would you stop that now?

[sigh]
[sigh]

tombombadil
June 20th, 2008, 09:45 PM
did you all see rose on the screen?;)

Pitry
June 21st, 2008, 05:51 AM
That's not what the people would be like.


You're quite the optimist then. :)
(You're quite the optimist then.)

Dusk
June 21st, 2008, 10:51 PM
Actually, looking back at that statement, I realize I didn't elaborate properly. I meant to say that yes, the characters would most definitely turn into a pack of wolves like a scene straight out of 'The Crucible', but that we wouldn't have an emo teen with John and Jane Doe as parents straight out of Neighbours, or a brown-cardigan professor who looks like he just stepped out of a 1960s physics lecture. The characters are anachronistic for a future period. As are most of RTD's future characters in Doctor Who. Sure we might be able to relate to them better, but their presence tends to push the setting into the realm of silly and ill-conceived. Planet of the Ood had similar, out of place characters in the form of rowdy business men and women. Fires of Pompeii also attempted to modernize the Roman family unit into something it wasn't. Is it too much to ask to use people that better suit the time period? Sorry, but it just annoys me to no end.

Darren
June 21st, 2008, 11:15 PM
I love the new Doctor Who and give RTD all the credit in the world for reinventing it as one of the best SF shows on television right now.

This episode, however, stunk.

The characters were all horribly annoying, and the attempt to portray "human nature" was transparent and caught somewhere between depressing and cliche. I understand these were extraordinary circumstances, but the entity hadn't really done anything to threaten anybody in the cabin ... so their haste at tossing people out was simply unbelievable.

The entity's repetition was an interesting choice at first, but got painful to listen to after the 80th line of dialogue after the 80th line of dialogue.

Please, don't make me watch this again. Maybe my least favorite of the last four years.

ShadowMaat
June 21st, 2008, 11:41 PM
You know, I think part of the problem is that most of the characters were unlikable to start with, so their lynch mob mentality wasn't very surprising. Or interesting.

Now, if they'd all been nice, reasonably intelligent people (with maybe a token stinker) that might have been a different story, but a stuffy professor who ignores/verbally abuses his assistant and obnoxious parents who ignore/verbally abuse their son? Please. They'd threaten to stuff someone out the airlock if they ran out of complimentary peanuts* never mind any freaky alien crap. :rolleyes:

Dusk and Darren are right: they're clichè. And they were acting like jerks before things went wrong. Even the Stewardess was a bit robotic for the most part. At least until it mattered. :)

The freaky thing about situations like this (at least from what I've seen on TV) is when the NICE people turn vicious. It's like being savaged by ducks. This ep needed more ducks. :P







*warning: may contain nuts

Gabriel_Lecter
June 24th, 2008, 07:10 PM
I-LOVED-THIS-EPISODE!

Favourite so far this season.
I've said that about others, but this one definately beats the rest.

Truely a credit to both Lesley Sharp and David Tennant!

nx01a
June 27th, 2008, 09:59 AM
Ladies and gentlemen and variations thereof...

I refuse to watch trailers for Who or read spoilers, so I go into episodes largely cold. That said, I was prepared to hate this episode from the minute I heard the muzak and saw Donna lounging in a spa, then I got really ready to hate it when the Doctor basically screamed out the plot: diamond planet, strangers, long trip, what could go wrong? Then I was REALLY ready to hate it when I saw RTD had written it.

Then, of course, the episode really started. Sure, there were the pop culture references RTD is known for, and the usual different characters/victims, but then things started taking a turn far darker than I was expecting. The possession and the mimicing were well done and wonderfully acted and synched in post.:P The terror and nastiness of humanity was, no doubt, accelerated by the creature inside Sky... Sky? Midnight Sky? River Song? Geez. Sky One.:P I was wondering if the creature was actually her evil ex-gf out for revenge, but nah.

I admit, this was one of the few episodes where I genuinely had my heart in my throat. I knew they couldn't kill the Doctor, but the whole futile battle he was fighting to appeal to their common sense / 'humanity' really had me involved. As for their reactions, why is it that only the very clever [Agatha] or the alien-influenced seem to take serious notice of all of the Doctor's peculiarities [only a title, the glee in the face of terror, his patronizing attitude towards 'lesser' beings, etc.] I'm always glad to see people call him on those traits. I seriously doubt the passengers were acting full of their own volition. Sky herself said that 'he gets inside your head', referencing the thnig inside her. I mean, from 0 to murder in 30 minutes is a bit much, even for humans. It was also nice to see the Doctor confronted by the worst of humanity in a situation he had no control over. I was so hoping he'd start using Time Lord kung fu on them.:P

The 'people in a confined space affected by alien influence' scenario has been done, but RTD does it quite well here, especially with the dynamics involved: a dysfunctional family, a professor and his companion;) in a relationship that may/may not mirror the Doctor and his companions, and a woman forced to be in charge but really not until the end. The Doctor also had a nice switch, from being the one always in charge and able to effect change to the one completely passive and helpless. As usual, the creature he wants to help has no such humanitarian compunctions; he'll never learn. He HAS to talk to them while they stab him in the front.

Speaking of the Doctor... His frozen repetition scenes were SO well acted. You could see the helplessness and terror in his eyes, not to mention the tear and the drool.:P The lack of Donna in this episode was a definite plus. With back up, the Doctor would still have some reference point to the 'better angels' of human nature, not to mention back up. I almost laughed when Donna repeated the Doctor and he did the usual 'Don't do that. Don't,' he does with Donna but with a far more serious tone. The last episode was so traumatic for the Doctor and now this happens right after it, I'd love to see this emotional rollercoaster continue for the rest of the season. Put him under this pressure constantly, let's see how long it takes for him to have post traumatic flashbacks of the time war.:P

During the final confrontation, I was reminded of a poem, and it seemed like the best lacked all conviction, while the worst were filled with passionate intensity. It was fitting that the Doctor's interaction with someone, recognising his personality, should be what instigated the hostess to take action, sacrifice herself and save everyone.

I was very impressed with this episode, it felt more Moffat than RTD. Points to RTD for referencing how little we get complimentary these days when travelling. :D

Medusa Cascade! Missing moon! The Doctor's name! "It's a date." ROSE!!!

I greatly enjoyed this episode and actually got emotionally invested, perhaps because it was, for the most part, real time and didn't let up for an instant.

Definitely more of the same!!!

nx01a
June 30th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Mmm.

Huh. I wasn't as blown away by the ep as some obviously were. The copying thing was kinda interesting, but the mob mentality thing has been done many times before and I didn't really feel that this ep brought anything new to the table in that regard. Plus it underscores a theme that I feel is becoming more and more obvious: humans are monsters. It kinda makes me wonder why the Doctor bothers with us at all. For every "good" person out there it seems like there are whole groups who are awful. Or maybe the Planet of the Ood thing bothered me even more than I realized.

I agree. I've always found the Doctor's attitude towards humans quite... schizophrenic. One minute, he's praising us for our abilities, the next he's treating us like kids who can't help themselves and need him, the next he's toppling governments because we [IMO] rightly defended ourselves against alien aggression.

I'd also like to know more about the entity. Yes, I get that it's supposed to be mysterious, but it had to have some kind of physical body in order to be pounding on the hull- and quite a powerful one if it could dent the side of the ship and smash open the cockpit. And yet it winds up being more like a thought virus, taking over the mind of Skye and then leaching the Doctor's energy. Or are we meant to believe that a big, malevolent thought smashed up the ship? What was the shadow the mechanic saw, then? And how come, in all this time, no one has ever encountered the creature(s) before? Because it's the sole entity on the entire planet and never ranges beyond that particular diamond field? The masses of hot-blood life in the resort were never enough to draw it closer? It never drew closer to the tour craft's normal route? What about that field was so extraordinary that it not only spawned this lifeform but kept it trapped within such a small range? How did it manage to affect the engines? And cut the wires? Heck, how did it even know to do these things? And why strip the covering off the chairs? I suppose it could be a side effect, but why? And how did it leave Skye undamaged? I should think her clothes, at least, would be a bit torn even if the entity needed Skye herself to be whole.

What was Skye's problem, anyway? Why was she so convinced that "it" was coming after her? I didn't quite follow all the dialogue in that scene, I think she was screaming something about her ex, but why would she (or anyone) want her dead?

And if anyone tells me I'm "overthinking" things I'll punch them in the nose. :P If I see something I don't understand, it raises questions. Those questions lead to MORE questions and soon I've taken the whole whatever apart and am surrounded by random bits and question marks. ;)

ShadowMaat
July 11th, 2008, 11:29 PM
It's probably been suggested before, but having now rewatched the ep I'm gonna go with the entity ramping up everyone's fears and paranoia- like someone said, it WANTS them to fight. Doesn't make the ep any more enjoyable for me, but it does alleviate some of my irritation at how fast and completely everyone turned vicious.

RDAfan61
July 12th, 2008, 08:09 AM
That was my take on it as well. She kept urging them on to throw him out and do it fast. Tried to make it like she had been innocently overtaken and was "cold" and it was "dark". I too would have loved an explanation of exactly what the creature was ultimately trying to do and how but it still worked.

The repeating did get fairly annoying but was well done, wonder how long it took them to practice that or was it all done in post and I mean the scenes where you actually saw them speaking together. :D

The mother annoued me to no end and I too wanted to smack her and the husband too. I was so glad the Doctor did not dignify her last statement with an answer.

Not the best ep for me either but was definately a very interesting one and quite well done, especially by DT. He really gets into it with the drooling and all. :P

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 12th, 2008, 12:24 PM
The characters were all horribly annoying, and the attempt to portray "human nature" was transparent and caught somewhere between depressing and cliche. I understand these were extraordinary circumstances, but the entity hadn't really done anything to threaten anybody in the cabin ... so their haste at tossing people out was simply unbelievable.

It's probably been suggested before, but having now rewatched the ep I'm gonna go with the entity ramping up everyone's fears and paranoia- like someone said, it WANTS them to fight. Doesn't make the ep any more enjoyable for me, but it does alleviate some of my irritation at how fast and completely everyone turned vicious.
In the episode itself, the alien inside Sky actually says, "That's what he does... devides you and turns you against each other" OK, I know that's not an exact quote... my memory is worthless... XP But I know the alien (in Sky) says something along those lines when trying to convince them that it (the alien) is now in the Doctor.
I think that the alien was slightly telepathic. That's how it gets into peoples' heads and is able to say what they're saying at the exact same time, then it goes to the next step -- which is getting in their head so much that the alien is basically using the speach center of their brain to be able to speak itself. And obviously it also saps a bit of motor-control while it's at it -- which would be why the Doctor not only can't talk for himself, but can't even move. So, it may not be telepathic in the sense that we usually think, but just enough to take a few of the person's mental abilities from them.

I also think that the reason why it was trying to get them to kill the Doctor is because while he's still alive, he still has some power over his own mind and that may be keeping the alien from taking what it needs completely...

Just my guess....

tombombadil
July 12th, 2008, 12:33 PM
In the episode itself, the alien inside Sky actually says, "That's what he does... devides you and turns you against each other" OK, I know that's not an exact quote... my memory is worthless... XP But I know the alien (in Sky) says something along those lines when trying to convince them that it (the alien) is now in the Doctor.
I think that the alien was slightly telepathic. That's how it gets into peoples' heads and is able to say what they're saying at the exact same time, then it goes to the next step -- which is getting in their head so much that the alien is basically using the speach center of their brain to be able to speak itself. And obviously it also saps a bit of motor-control while it's at it -- which would be why the Doctor not only can't talk for himself, but can't even move. So, it may not be telepathic in the sense that we usually think, but just enough to take a few of the person's mental abilities from them.

I also think that the reason why it was trying to get them to kill the Doctor is because while he's still alive, he still has some power over his own mind and that may be keeping the alien from taking what it needs completely...

Just my guess....
In the episode itself, the alien inside Sky actually says, "That's what he does... devides you and turns you against each other" OK, I know that's not an exact quote... my memory is worthless... XP But I know the alien (in Sky) says something along those lines when trying to convince them that it (the alien) is now in the Doctor.
I think that the alien was slightly telepathic. That's how it gets into peoples' heads and is able to say what they're saying at the exact same time, then it goes to the next step -- which is getting in their head so much that the alien is basically using the speach center of their brain to be able to speak itself. And obviously it also saps a bit of motor-control while it's at it -- which would be why the Doctor not only can't talk for himself, but can't even move. So, it may not be telepathic in the sense that we usually think, but just enough to take a few of the person's mental abilities from them.

I also think that the reason why it was trying to get them to kill the Doctor is because while he's still alive, he still has some power over his own mind and that may be keeping the alien from taking what it needs completely...

Just my guess....

:P

Alipeeps
July 13th, 2008, 06:31 PM
^Heh. I wondered what had happened there and it took me longer that I'd like to admit to work it out. Nice one! :D



The repeating did get fairly annoying but was well done, wonder how long it took them to practice that or was it all done in post and I mean the scenes where you actually saw them speaking together. :D


Don't know if you get to see the Doctor Who Confidential about this episode? Really interesting stuff - it was actually very complex to get all of that stuff right. For the scenes with the Doctor and Sky face to face they were actually speaking together (although they also recorded them saying their lines alone, so as to have a clear track of each voice) saying the lines at the same time and they'd actually given all the actors some rehearsal time before they started filming so that they could (DT and the woman playing Sky in particular) practice and get their timing right etc. But the most interesting thing, I think, is that in the scenes where everyone is talking/shouting at once, they had to film them multiple times over, each time with just one person actually speaking aloud and all the others just miming their lines without speaking. This is so they could have a separate track of each voice - mostly for the purposes of dubbing into foreign languages when the show is aired abroad! So that each voice could be dubbed and the entity/Sky's parroting matched to it. Really complex stuff!

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 13th, 2008, 06:38 PM
Well, you've done better than me, Alipeeps.... I have no clue why Tom just copied my post word for word. :P

:confused:

tombombadil
July 13th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Well, you've done better than me, Alipeeps.... I have no clue why Tom just copied my post word for word. :P

:confused:

Well, you've done better than me, Alipeeps.... I have no clue why Tom just copied my post word for word. :P

:confused:
:P

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 13th, 2008, 10:59 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Holy crap, I'm such a moron... I hate you, Tom. :P

And I was just about to acuse you of spamming... technically... you're on topic. http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Myn_M/Doctor%20Who/The%20Doctor/Doctordrnk.gif

Alipeeps
July 14th, 2008, 07:09 AM
:lol: See? I said it took me a while to get it... :D

P.S. If I were you, I'd be worried about why he's picked YOU!! :eek:

Mr Prophet
July 14th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I expect simultaneous posting soon.

Alipeeps
July 14th, 2008, 09:26 AM
When he starts posting before you is when you really wanna worry! :lol:

Pitry
July 14th, 2008, 11:02 AM
:lol: See? I said it took me a while to get it... :D

P.S. If I were you, I'd be worried about why he's picked YOU!! :eek:

It could be a compliment, Myn might be the cleverest voice in the room :D

As for the actual post, I didn't think the creature was telepathic... I thought it could be a clever little trick of the alien - you take a bunch of frightened humans who start fighting because they're frightened and go on telling them it's a voice in their heads, they're so panicky they'll believe you. :) I don't think telepathy is enough in order to repeat it anyway, because it'll still take a friction of a second longer, I'd imagine. Especially if the entity ahs to work out the speech centre of the person it's posessing.

mizzoueng
July 14th, 2008, 12:46 PM
I thought this episode was interesting, showed the flaws in humans and how the unknown, while fasinating to some, it downright frightening to others. I didn't like how easily they decided to kill Sky, but thats a bunch of scared humans for you, kill what you don't understand and figure it out later. At no time did it ever seem like they were in danger, it was just annoying them by copying them.

Did it ever get explained how the creature got inside the truck? The dent was massive, and was described as a "shimmering shadow". I assumed it was some sort of energy based life form and was hitting the hull with the diamonds, which caused one of the wires to be exposed on the exterior and it then used that to get in.

I thought the creature was telepathic, that or Sky was somewhat telepathic and the creature just amplified that (maybe thats why it picked her?). Either way, I thought it was bizarre that it overtook the Doctor so easily. I thought he was supposed to be telepathic (somewhat) as well and i thought he would be able to stop any attacks on his mind. So he is either not as mentally strong (defensive) or the creature (or Sky) had vastly greater abilities than the Doctor, which is why he appeared to actually be scared of it.

RDAfan61
July 14th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Seeing as how they never explained what the creature was or how it did things, maybe it was out of time somehow. Just slightly ahead so it knew what they were going to say. I know, a bizarre theory. :p

I have the confidentials, just haven't watched yet. I was more interested in finishing up the season. :D Anyway, I look forward to watching, looks interesting. Thanks.

nx01a
July 14th, 2008, 02:10 PM
It could be a compliment, Myn might be the cleverest voice in the room :D

As for the actual post, I didn't think the creature was telepathic... I thought it could be a clever little trick of the alien - you take a bunch of frightened humans who start fighting because they're frightened and go on telling them it's a voice in their heads, they're so panicky they'll believe you. :) I don't think telepathy is enough in order to repeat it anyway, because it'll still take a friction of a second longer, I'd imagine. Especially if the entity ahs to work out the speech centre of the person it's posessing. I don't see how anything other than telepathy could explain the entity's abilities. It was able to control the Doctor. The Doctor!!! Telekinesis might also explain the damage it did to the vehicle. I was thinking it was a telepathic/telekinetic energy being trapped in the diamond of the planet and freed by the earthquake in that region.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 14th, 2008, 02:15 PM
:lol: See? I said it took me a while to get it... :D

P.S. If I were you, I'd be worried about why he's picked YOU!! :eek:
It took me much longer.... :lol:

Oh I can assure you, it has nothing to do with my "cleverness" or leadership abilities... :P


When he starts posting before you is when you really wanna worry! :lol:
Oh no! :lol:


It could be a compliment, Myn might be the cleverest voice in the room :D

As for the actual post, I didn't think the creature was telepathic... I thought it could be a clever little trick of the alien - you take a bunch of frightened humans who start fighting because they're frightened and go on telling them it's a voice in their heads, they're so panicky they'll believe you. :) I don't think telepathy is enough in order to repeat it anyway, because it'll still take a friction of a second longer, I'd imagine. Especially if the entity ahs to work out the speech centre of the person it's posessing.
I dunno, I just thought it may be a kind of telepathy, if not in the same sense we generally think of it. I meant it more like... the thing is getting in your head, not really telepathically, but somehow sapping the part of your brain that controls speech. And I wasn't exactly thinking that it would have to work out the speech center of one's brain, more like it molds itself onto and into it... well..... telepathically.

Oh well, it was just an idea. :P Or maybe RDAfan is right and the creature uses some mild form of time travel.... *shrugs*

About me being the cleverest voice in the room... don't bet on it. LOL

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 14th, 2008, 02:18 PM
I don't see how anything other than telepathy could explain the entity's abilities. Telekinesis might also explain the damage it did to the vehicle. I was thinking it was a telepathic/telekinetic energy being trapped in the diamond of the planet and freed by the earthquake in that region.
Ah, someone agrees with me. :D And I suppose the telekenisis makes sense too... although, like the telepathy, I'd guess that it's a slightly different level of it than how we generally view it.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 14th, 2008, 02:32 PM
I don't see how anything other than telepathy could explain the entity's abilities. It was able to control the Doctor. The Doctor!!! Telekinesis might also explain the damage it did to the vehicle. I was thinking it was a telepathic/telekinetic energy being trapped in the diamond of the planet and freed by the earthquake in that region.
Oh, you edited your post... And that's a good point you added! I mean, this is the Doctor we're talking about... and he was completely helpless. We do know that he has some (if minor) telepathic abilities. So, if the creature wasn't at all telepathic, you'd think the Doctor should have been able to keep control of his own mind... right?

Pitry
July 14th, 2008, 02:34 PM
Well, I don't completely disagere - I agree there was definitely some sort of mental connection. I probably just have a bit too fixed an opinion of what telepathy is in order to fit it in with it... after all, having an idea is not the same as shaping it with words. And it was definitely more than just reading their minds, the creature was controlling their body as well.

As for taking over the Doctor - well it did, but not completely. The Doctor was still fighting all the way... which would strengthen the idea of some sort of mental control. Just not the regular concept of telepathy, I guess.

I could be just nitpicking of course. After all, it's Myn with the cleverst voice in the room! :P:P:P

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 14th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Or at least, that's what Tom (who's been taken over by the alien!! :eek:) thinks... I think Tom's mind has confused the creature... :P

Pitry
July 14th, 2008, 02:40 PM
Or at least, that's what Tom (who's been taken over by the alien!! :eek:) thinks... I think Tom's mind has confused the creature... :P

Maybe he's more powerul than the Doctor and can actualyl control the creature! :D

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 14th, 2008, 02:44 PM
Maybe he's more powerul than the Doctor and can actualyl control the creature! :D
More powerful than the Doctor?! *snorts with laughter* That's what it seems he wants to believe... :P

(Sorry, Tom :P)

MasySyma
July 14th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Hmmm. I liked and disliked this episode. I agree with earlier posts about the humans being idiotic, but I enjoyed seeing Donna and the Doctor separate for a bit.

It was an ok episode, but I am eager to see the finale.

Madeleine
July 15th, 2008, 03:54 AM
Or at least, that's what Tom (who's been taken over by the alien!! :eek:) thinks... I think Tom's mind has confused the creature... :P

tombombadil
July 15th, 2008, 10:42 AM
Or at least, that's what Tom (who's been taken over by the alien!! :eek:) thinks... I think Tom's mind has confused the creature... :P
Or at least, that's what Tom (who's been taken over by the alien!! :eek:) thinks... I think Tom's mind has confused the creature... :P

tombombadil
July 15th, 2008, 10:43 AM
More powerful than the Doctor?! *snorts with laughter* That's what it seems he wants to believe... :P

(Sorry, Tom :P)

More powerful than the Doctor?! *snorts with laughter* That's what it seems he wants to believe... :P

(Sorry, Tom :P)
:P

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 17th, 2008, 06:10 PM
Or at least, that's what Tom (who's been taken over by the alien!! :eek:) thinks... I think Tom's mind has confused the creature... :P
:eek: Oh, no! There are two of them!!! :eek:

And they're both after me!!!

Help! Hide me!

I'm too young to have my speech taken away from me thus forcing me to repeat everything some evil alien in control of someone else says!!!(!)

tombombadil
August 7th, 2008, 12:35 PM
:eek: Oh, no! There are two of them!!! :eek:

And they're both after me!!!

Help! Hide me!

I'm too young to have my speech taken away from me thus forcing me to repeat everything some evil alien in control of someone else says!!!(!)

:eek: Oh, no! There are two of them!!! :eek:

And they're both after me!!!

Help! Hide me!

I'm too young to have my speech taken away from me thus forcing me to repeat everything some evil alien in control of someone else says!!!(!)

MmmmMcKAy
November 27th, 2008, 06:14 PM
Wow! I loved this episode. I found it genuinely creepy with great build up of tension.

The part with The Doctor chatting it up with everyone(after disconnecting the horrible entertainment ) was sweet.

The repeating really got to me...in a good way.


And I didn't miss Donna.

gateship15
November 27th, 2008, 10:49 PM
this was an ok episode i liked that this episode was just the doctor it shows he can still do things on his own. but i found this episode a bit boring

Pharaoh Atem
December 4th, 2008, 06:36 AM
creepy and who go so well together and this ep proved it

nice to see a doctor who ep ...with no donna

gateship15
December 5th, 2008, 12:13 AM
:) this episode was so creepy

Ishay
April 28th, 2009, 06:43 PM
freaky ep :S nice to not have donna along :) i much prefer the doctor alone sometimes.

gateship15
April 29th, 2009, 02:26 AM
i agree

Merlin's_Legacy
May 16th, 2009, 09:22 PM
I re-watched the old movie "Forbidden Planet" a few days ago and now coming back to this thread I have a possible theory about the Creature, what it was, why it had never been seen before, and how it was able to do what it did...

First off, for those who haven't seen Forbidden Planet, the premise behind it is that the planet was once home to a race called the Krel that built a giant machine that would allow them to be completely rid of physical instrumentality. Basically anything they thought would become real. Unfortunately they failed to factor in the desires of their subconscious minds and the "monsters of the id" were brought to life by the machine and destroys them in a single night. Thousands of years later, humans show up on the planet and one member of the expedition accidentally enhances his brain enough to interface with the machine and his nightmares wipe out everybody except his wife and daughter. During the course of the movie we see that man, Dr. Morbius, create a monster that attacks a crew that has come to follow up on the original expedition.

So here's my theory: First, what was the creature? I believe that the creature may actually have been a manifestation of the planet itself. All that extonic radiation pounding down onto all of those crystals (we're told that the saphire waterfall isn't really saphires, so maybe the diamonds aren't really diamonds???) maybe the planet itself was some sort simple life form with a basic consciousness. Why was it able to do what it did? It feeds on thought and emotion. Sky's mind was the weakest because of her emotional turmoil. She was doubting herself, and questioning her life, possibly confronting fears of being alone, dieing alone. She had the strongest emotions there and was an easy target. The initial problem of the engines dieing could have been a fluke, or it might have been caused by the entity. Once it had hold of sky though, it had a taste of intense emotion and wanted more. It most likely influenced the minds of the others on the transport to get more of what it wanted.

Why was the creature never seen before? Simple... The Doctor. We know the Doctor is a telepath (girl in the fireplace, planet of the ood). We know he can be affected by psychokinetic energy (Last of the Time Lords). He also carries large amounts of those particles Time Travelers pick up (Army of Ghosts / Doomsday). It's not a big stretch to imagine that the Doctor's very presence is the very thing that drew the entity's attention. Now imagine that the entity is itself is not yet fully self-aware. Then a powerful mind draws it's focus. That very focus causes the engines on the transport to fail. Engine failure on a transport is unheard of so the pilots get a bit worried. The doctor has them open the open the shielding on the window thus exposing him and the two pilots directly to the entity that is poking around. The one pilot is already worried and the entity gets a taste of his heightened emotions and wants more so it starts looking for a way in. As everyone else starts to worry and get paranoid, the entity draws on their emotions and begins to take on aspects of what it senses in them.

It uses the power it's drawing from the emotions of everybody aboard to rip the cockpit off the transport looking for a way in. Then it finds Sky. Her terror gives it the power it needs to pass through the shields. Once there it attempts to learn by mimicry but sees that it's mimicry produces the intense emotion it's craving so it keeps it up, pushing it ever further, constantly growing more powerful until it is finally able to push past the Doctor's defenses. It takes all the knowledge it it needs and decides that the Doctor is to dangerous to keep around so it decides to get the others to eliminate him before the Doctor is able to free himself and expose the entity for what it is: The embodiment of the passengers fears. But the entity slips up and says Alons-y and the Hostess acts.

Makes you wonder... If the people Hadn't reacted with fear would the entity still have been malevolent? Would it have, instead, chose to communicate with the Doctor? Did the entity even have any consciousness of it's own or was it merely a reflection of the people on the Transport's worst fears (including The Doctors fear of someone else using his knowledge for evil)? Maybe there wasn't an entity at all. Maybe something in the crystal structure of the alternate path they took just resonated psychic energy and the Doctor's presence triggered an effect similar to the Krell Machinery from Forbidden Planet.

That's what I love about Dr. Who. It makes you think. Every now and then you get an episode like this where they leave you with enough what-ifs to let you fill in the gaps with other things you've seen or read.

gateship15
May 18th, 2009, 02:36 AM
wow

Flyboy
December 23rd, 2010, 12:06 PM
Just rewatched this episode. I'd forgotten how damn brilliant it is!

mr_kennedy
December 15th, 2012, 08:03 PM
That would have been a very awkward 20 minutes :lol:

mr_kennedy
December 15th, 2012, 08:13 PM
That would have been a very awkward 20 minutes :lol:

That would have been a very awkward 20 minutes :lol:

maneth
May 6th, 2013, 10:12 AM
Cool episode! I bet they had fun shooting it too.