Martin Loyd's ship/tech..

[pbutter]

Watching Wormhole Extreme, im puzzled by a few things. Martin Loyd's race was pretty advanced (judging by his spaceship and cool transporter technology), possibly, more advanced then the Goaud. Then how is it that they were wiped out by the Goauld ?

And his ship had an interesting design, and was pretty big, maybe even bigger then the 304. So, one would assume, she would be more than a match for a Hatak.. or was she ?
Any one want to speculate ?
Comments ?

[VSHARMA]

Watching Wormhole Extreme, im puzzled by a few things. Martin Loyd's race was pretty advanced (judging by his spaceship and cool transporter technology), possibly, more advanced then the Goaud. Then how is it that they were wiped out by the Goauld ?

And his ship had an interesting design, and was preety big, maybe even bigger then the 304. So, one would assume, she would be more than a match for a Hatak.. or was she ?
Any one want to speculate ?
Comments ?

Tollen were also pretty advanced. Look what happened to them

Also big ship don't mean big guns. It could have been a transport ship or cargo ship

[pbutter]

^^ Even if it had weapons comparable to that of the Alkesh, then it still could do significant damage to Hataks.

They were caught by surprise, they might have been double crossed. etc.

The Episode where Martin went back to his homeworld and checked it out. It looked like the Goa'uld had bombarded the planet from space. If there were plenty of Hataks involved they could do a lot of damage to a planet before the enemy knew what hit them.

As for the ship, (it's one of my favorite designed ships in the Stargate world) all we really know about it is that they have a kind of beaming tech and they have FTL capabilities. their weapons might have sucked. plus, that ship had to get pretty close before they beamed aboard, maybe their beam range sucks.

They could not activate the transport beam, because they did not have the device, Jack later gave it to them. And the ship was pretty large for just a crew of 6.

[wise one]

i think they said they fought back and the 6 of them went looking for advanced allies to help them but they realised earth was primitive in comparison so they stayed

its likely there was alot more hataks

plus the hataks in those would of been deemed very powerful...well now look at them in comparison to other ships

[nich959]

i think they said they fought back and the 6 of them went looking for advanced allies to help them but they realised earth was primitive in comparison so they stayed

its likely there was alot more hataks

plus the hataks in those would of been deemed very powerful...well now look at them in comparison to other ships

agreed

Though i did think they're tech looked pretty darn sweet

[Maedhros_Sea]

It might be some of M Loyds people survived. We've seen humans with advanced tech that doesn't come from known sources. It might have been survivors from their world.

The rotating part of the ship had what looked like either very large antennae or weapons. My guess was weapons.

Maybe this was a prototype ship built in secret somewhere to defend the planet. But not finished in time. Their version of the BC-303 but with particle weapons.

It was very cool looking

[PotluckoftheGods]

Yeah, it was a real good looking ship. But as you say, it might be their version of the 304, and the 304 couldn't consistently pull off anything more dangerous than courier duty until the Asgard gave the Tau'ri beam weapons. Remember, the only time we see the 304 fight a Ha'Tak is when Odyssey fires on the Lucian Alliance in "Off the Grid", and I think the result was minimal damage. So maybe beaming technology was Martin's people's killer app, and their weapons tech wasn't as advanced and couldn't stand up to a Goa'uld fleet.

Or as I like to call it, a "Gleet."

[pbutter]

Yup, good looking ship, indeed. She's the second best looking human constructed ship in SGU, the first is the 304.
Yeah, and here are the screen's for the ship, for those of you who have not seen it..
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s5/5...12%5F0173.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s5/5...12%5F0179.html

[Master_Templar]

Remember, the only time we see the 304 fight a Ha'Tak is when Odyssey fires on the Lucian Alliance in "Off the Grid", and I think the result was minimal damage

That was using only Rail-guns however, no Missiles. We never actually saw how one of our ships would go against a Ha'tak. Still haven't.

[PotluckoftheGods]

That was using only Rail-guns however, no Missiles. We never actually saw how one of our ships would go against a Ha'tak. Still haven't.

Quite right. I forgot about the lack of missiles in that battle. But still, when we see the Apollo fire missiles in "First Strike", they appear to be armed with conventional warheads, and even though the Ha'tak has fallen WAY down the charts of most dangerous Stargate warships, she can still probably take a couple of Tomahawks without blinking.

[pbutter]

304's dont use Tomahawks. Cruise missiles have air breathing engines...
Anywho, even conventional missiles do considerable damage to unshielded targets, in-fact, a pair of Amraams disabled a Hive ships hyperdrive, then it's logical to assume, that the larger calibre Anti-ship missiles on the 304's would be a lot more lethal.

[Master_Templar]

Earth weaponary is most likely naquadah enhanced, hence why the 302's Missiles have quite a bit of punch behind them.

And the missiles in First Strike may or may NOT have been nuclear, but regardless, they caused a fluctuation in the shield strength, and considering that it was Ancient (Asuran) technology which was rather suped-up, you have to think that missiles will do damage.

[PotluckoftheGods]

304's dont use Tomahawks. Cruise missiles have air breathing engines...
Anywho, even conventional missiles do considerable damage to unshielded targets, in-fact, a pair of Amraams disabled a Hive ships hyperdrive, then it's logical to assume, that the larger calibre Anti-ship missiles on the 304's would be a lot more lethal.

Actually my use of Tomahawks was tongue-in-cheek, but I was trying to make a point about the relative futility in using conventional warheads against a shielded target (in this case an Ha'tak). We've seen the 304s fire nukes ("The Siege 3", "No Man's Land") and whenever we see one actually detonate, there is a much brighter flash, indicating a more powerful explosion. But in instances when we don't see the specific command to fire nukes ("Ethon", "Camelot" and "The Last Man") the resulting explosions don't look that impressive.

Ultimately, my point was that the 304 was the pinnacle of Earth engineering before the Asgard tricked it out with plasma beams, and while some of its systems were markedly superior to the Goa'uld (shields, beaming tech, and probably the hyperdrive), the rail guns and ship-to-ship missiles that came standard always looked like not nearly enough to defeat a Ha'tak's shields. And if the 304 could match-up so unevenly against a Ha'tak in these varying categories, maybe Martin's ship also represented a huge leap forward over the Goa'uld in some ways, but was still at the disadvantage in others.

Also, what does the first "A" stand for in "Amraam"? Is it advanced?

[pbutter]

Missiles, i agree, they don't do much damage to shielded targets, however, railgun's, i'm not so sure. I believe railgun's were designed to be used on shielded targets, because a shot or two of a railgun should do about as much damage as a conventional missile, and it's much faster. Unfortunately, we have not seen railguns being used against shielded Hatak's, except in Off the Grid, when Emerson gives orders, only to fire three guns' at three Hataks, one at each Hatak, when the 304's are armed with atleast 14 gun's that i'm aware of. Perhaps they were trying not to piss off the Lucian Alliance, by destroying the Hataks...
Truth is, we will never really know how the 304's (pre Unending) would fare against Hataks.

Yup, Amraam - Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile.

[fallenexile452]

Season five's opener enemies was repeated the other day and i just noticed how similar but not completely the same martin's race's ship and the one the replicators arrived on were. it could be that the replicators had attacked them as well as the gaould which is why we saw no more of them, even though at least towards the end we could have helped them, it would have been a good way to get back to classic gaould vs sg-1 action that was somewhat lacking towards the end of the series.