Daniel arguing with Morgan La Fay <possible spoilers>

[Muh_tuttles]

Hey all,

This is my first post and I specifically made a user and registered to ask this question: Was anyone else annoyed at how Daniel asked the same questions of Morgan that Jack asked of Daniel when Jack was being killed, brought back to life, and then killed again?

I found it incredibly annoying that he would turn on her for doing the same thing that he did to Jack. Jack was going through such horrible torture (worse than Daniel) and Daniel didn't do much and when he did something, he took his own sweet time doing it.

Honestly

I'll go introduce myself now.

Muh_tuttles

[g.o.d]

that's because they can't interfere with lower planes.

this sentence explains everything
(Abyss, 606)

Daniel: "The hardest part of being who or what I am is having the power to change the things I want to change and knowing that I can't..." (Jack gives him a look.) "Even when I'm certain, even when it's...absolutely clear to me, even when it affects the people I care about..." (Jack rolls his eyes and turns his head to the side.) "Because for all I can do...I'm no more qualified to play God than the Goa'uld are."

[Muh_tuttles]

So then why did he bother asking when he knew the answer? He should know better than anyone else.

[Cree]

because he wasasking to help and that in turn would help the ascended so it wouldnt just be saving a lower plane life it would be saving there on asses!

[madaboutdanny]

No, I wasn't annoyed. And Daniel in Abyss helped Jack, even after a while, and helped Teal'c and helped in Full Circle and now he is just asking Morgana to help them because doing that she help her people, is so simple.......

[NIKIN]

Whether he helped Jack or not when he was being tortured by Ba'al, that was not a matter of stopping the goa'uld once and for all, whereas they did have a chance to stop the ori for good there. Besides she did help in the end, she helped Teal'c get better, and knew he would get them out of the cells, Daniel just didn't know that

Also you have to remember that Daniel couldn't remember his time as an ascended being, and so he didn't know he did the same thing to Jack. Also he couldn't read it in a mission report because nobody knew that Jack even saw him until Full Circle, and it doesn't seem the kind of thing to say "welcome back Daniel, oh and by the way you did bugger all when I was held captive by Ba'al and was being tortured again and again"

[jdjunkie]

Hey all,

Jack was going through such horrible torture (worse than Daniel) and Daniel didn't do much and when he did something, he took his own sweet time doing it.

Didn't do much, eh?

Didn't find a way to negotiate his way round the limitations of the Ascended regs to save Jack?

Didn't plant the idea that would give O'Neill "a fighting chance" in Teal'c's kel-no-reeming mind?

No you're right. He was probably off enjoying himself at some Ascended barbecue when he disappeared out of Jack's cell, because rescuing Jack from endless torture clearly wasn't top of his list of things to do.

And, no. I didn't find his plea to Morgan annoying in light of the above. I found it moving and true and an interestingly conceived character beat.

I did enjoy Ark of Truth a lot.

[Master_Templar]

Daniel would be fairly pissed with Ancients by now, he has always sort of had the "Well, it is their way" sort of ethos, but it looked like at the end of the Ark of Truth he had finally had enough and snapped.

Was rather cool.

[Muh_tuttles]

Ok, ok, point well and truly taken. But I still find it annoying.

And, for that last post, Daniel didn't do much in helping Jack not give up hope. He said things he knew Jack wouldn't understand (he spent long enough with him to know better) and he also didn't give Jack any hope at first. He gave Jack the whole mumbo-jumbo of cooking, fire and meals and rather obviously Jack couldn't understand it. Therefore, he gave irritation, not comfort. I would have said first thing "look, I can't do much, but I am going to try my hardest to find a way to get you out of this". But nooooo, Daniel doesn't do that. He just says he can't do anything, causing O'Neill to lose hope. And hope is almost as important as being rescued. Hope causes people to continue on and to keep fighting. Without it life is nothing.

Said a bit too much a think. But it's just my opinion. Daniel was great to finally come through for O'Neill and to use his power in such a way. However, I still don't think he was very nice before that and didn't meet Jack on his level (being much lower than an ascended being).

[FallenAngelII]

Also you have to remember that Daniel couldn't remember his time as an ascended being, and so he didn't know he did the same thing to Jack. Also he couldn't read it in a mission report because nobody knew that Jack even saw him until Full Circle, and it doesn't seem the kind of thing to say "welcome back Daniel, oh and by the way you did bugger all when I was held captive by Ba'al and was being tortured again and again"

Even though he didn't know it himself, he was still being a pot. If faced with the same situation, he would do (and have done) pretty much the same thing. Try to circumvent the rules to eventually save people.

No matter how big the action is (saving entire galaxies, saving just one man), rules need to be followed. One exception can lead to another and the next thing we know, we might end up with the Ancients and the Others becoming Ori-like. Remember that short little Jewish man we allowed to do his stuff for a while? Well, he just happened to kill millions of Jews.

The Ancients have rules for a very good reason: The Ori. An old quote reads "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely".

People keep giving the Ancients grief for not stepping in and magically solving our problems every single time something happens because we're supposedly their 2nd evolution. So what?! What gives us any right to demand they help us? I mean, what gives them the right to deny the antagonists a fighting chance? Because they'll be supressing us? Tough luck, survival of the strongest (or just smartest, I guess).

[Mitchell82]

No, I wasn't annoyed. And Daniel in Abyss helped Jack, even after a while, and helped Teal'c and helped in Full Circle and now he is just asking Morgana to help them because doing that she help her people, is so simple.......

Agreed. The battle with the Ori was coming to a head and he had to try one last time to get them to help especially if it was the last thing he did.

[ECN]

I've wondered if Daniel even REMEMBERS that conversation he had with Jack.

If not, it's VERY interesting he'd say almost EXACTLY the same thing to Morgan.

Great minds...

Now THAT'S scarey.
(To think Jack's been hiding a great mind all this time. )

[Mitchell82]

I've wondered if Daniel even REMEMBERS that conversation he had with Jack.

If not, it's VERY interesting he'd say almost EXACTLY the same thing to Morgan.

Great minds...

Now THAT'S scarey.
(To think Jack's been hiding a great mind all this time. )

I doubt he does. Most of the stuff he did as an ascended being are lost memories.

[Zamboni]

So then why did he bother asking when he knew the answer? He should know better than anyone else.

Because Oma erased all his memories and Daniel's brain is totally frakked from all the times he ascended, descended, brain probed by replicators, brain probed by Sam, and brain transfered to another galaxy.

Frankly it's amazing he can still remember his name. Or maybe he can't, maybe that's why Teal'C always calls him "Daniel Jackson", so Daniel knows his full name...

[RepliVeggie]

There is a huge difference between Daniel helping Jack, one person. And Morgan helping Daniel which would in turn help billions of people and ascended beings. Daniel felt the time for their non-interference rules to end for the time being.