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lcshepp
April 18th, 2008, 04:46 PM
When I was at the VanCon a few weeks ago I asked Martin Gero during a tour if the writers would be expanding more on Sheppard's gene. Other than flying a jumper, shooting off drones and moving a city, which I admit was impressive, there hasn't been much action. He told me the writers have decided not to explore "that mythology any more." He said that alot of people have the gene now so it's not that special anymore. I was alittle surprised at that comment but wasn't able to pursue at that time.

I can't help but feel that they are missing an opportunity. Fans complain that SGA repeats SG1 and Star Trek episodes. Writers say that with 300 episodes alone of SG1/SGA and many more of Star Trek, that it hard not to find similar shows. They say they add their spin by showing how Atlantis and the team react to the episode. Okay, I'll accept that.

However, wasn't it Weir that said she wanted Sheppard because he had the gene, "the likes we have never seen before"? Wasn't it Sheppard that replied to Weir, "isn't that why you brought me here"? Hasn't it been friend/foe (Wraith/Larrin) that have remarked in episodes "the one with the gene"? They certainly aren't looking at McKay.

I feel there are so many possibilities that could be expanded upon, especially now that Michael is more of a force with his hybrids and who knows what' going on with Teyla's child. Sheppard could be a real force in the galaxy. Now he's more of a one dimensional character with signs of breaking out, but not the real force he could be.

Any thoughts?

Fjord
April 18th, 2008, 05:45 PM
When I was at the VanCon a few weeks ago I asked Martin Gero during a tour if the writers would be expanding more on Sheppard's gene. Other than flying a jumper, shooting off drones and moving a city, which I admit was impressive, there hasn't been much action. He told me the writers have decided not to explore "that mythology any more." He said that alot of people have the gene now so it's not that special anymore. I was alittle surprised at that comment but wasn't able to pursue at that time.

I can't help but feel that they are missing an opportunity. Fans complain that SGA repeats SG1 and Star Trek episodes. Writers say that with 300 episodes alone of SG1/SGA and many more of Star Trek, that it hard not to find similar shows. They say they add their spin by showing how Atlantis and the team react to the episode. Okay, I'll accept that.

However, wasn't it Weir that said she wanted Sheppard because he had the gene, "the likes we have never seen before"? Wasn't it Sheppard that replied to Weir, "isn't that why you brought me here"? Hasn't it been friend/foe (Wraith/Larrin) that have remarked in episodes "the one with the gene"? They certainly aren't looking at McKay.

I feel there are so many possibilities that could be expanded upon, especially now that Michael is more of a force with his hybrids and who knows what' going on with Teyla's child. Sheppard could be a real force in the galaxy. Now he's more of a one dimensional character with signs of breaking out, but not the real force he could be.

Any thoughts?

I Agree 100%....i think they've watered Shephard down too much

Bobby
April 18th, 2008, 05:48 PM
yeh i agree 2 that was just something that made him cool...and also better than anyone else now he is sorta just a normal soilder...im not saying he isnt that good but there have to be a lot of people as good as he is

BoyNamedSue
April 18th, 2008, 06:05 PM
I totally agree, particularly about the missed opportunity. It did appear at the beginning of the series, that Sheppard's gene was naturally very strong - now, I'm no expert on genetics, but is there such a thing as a 'better' gene? I wonder. Regardless, I wish that Sheppard's 'Ancient' abilities would be explored further... (I'll stop before I get snarky, and *****y, and complaining about TPTB and where the show is going...) Now this may change, as Rob Cooper and Brad Wright are planning to come back as producers, at least for some episodes in s.5. I'll keep my fingers crossed for s. 6... :mckay:

The Kender
April 18th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Thats one thing that i've alway wanted them to explore, they made such a big thing about Sheppard's gene in Rising and then the very next episode they made the gene theropy and gave it to anyone who wanted it.

I also feel it was such a missed opportunity to explore the Ancient gene and Sheppard's ability to use it and i really hope they change their minds about it.

MXCP
April 19th, 2008, 04:56 AM
I think its a shame, because IMO its one of only a few unique stories that Stargate has. I think the storyline still has HUGE potential, especially with Sheppard. I have been interested in this aspect since it began with O'Neill on SG-1 and it was revealed that he could operate the tech because of a "gene", after that I thought that was the reason the Asgard treated him special because of that genetic link to the Gatebuilders and thus potential! So I was THRILLED when I saw Rising, with the suggestion that Sheppard was the strongest natural human gene carrier known so far and that's why he was allowed ("destined") to go to Atlantis. In fact, when they first arrived in Atlantis, my impression was that things were turning on in response to Sheppard "returning home" and not the expedition. I thought the city "rose" to save Sheppard. So I was disappointed that suddenly there was a "gene vaccine" and that "Before I Sleep" killed that idea. My only consolation so far is that Sheppard still uses the tech as naturally as breathing and can "feel" it, everyone else seems to have to make a concentrated effort. Notice how people in Pegasus who naturally have the gene are likely "royalty"? That suggests to me that someone there thinks its special! we had "The Tower", but the story fizzled IMO. I agree another try at this kind of story was "Travelers", he is wanted because of his gene but again the story degenerated IMO. Doesn't anyone else find it seriously awesome & interesting that Sheppard was able to FLY Atlantis BY HIMSELF?? His only problem was power requirements, he integrated himself with the systems effortlessly. I don't think anyone else could've done it yet IMO its treated like its a "ho-hum not anything special" thing. Here's a story- I think Sheppard could seize control of Atlantis the same way the Ancients did in "The Return". I think Sheppard is a direct descendant of one of those Ancients who left the city for Earth in "Before I Sleep".
The writers seem to find Wraith DNA in humans more interesting but have ignored that Sheppard has also acquired pieces of it, which is why I think Todd the Wraith decided to befriend him, but that storyline hasn't been pursued in that manner yet either focusing instead on Teyla's which is apparently as "strong" as Sheppard has the Ancient gene.
Just my thoughts. thanks.

Constanza
April 19th, 2008, 09:29 AM
I wish that Sheppard's 'Ancient' abilities would be explored further...

Me too!
Actually, wouldn’t it be nice if the gene therapy stop working suddenly? I would like to see that!

Arica12
April 19th, 2008, 11:08 AM
Personally - and this isn't going to sound nice, it's not meant to be nasty it's just what I think is going on - I think the writers and present PTB have reached the limits of what they can do. They can write variations on a theme, politics, military conflict etc etc but there is nothing new. Rising promised a whole new world to explore, new terrifying aliens different from anything encountered before and the lost city of Atlantis and a whole fantastical storyline to follow with ancients. The scifi could have been - perhaps should have been - challenging and ground breaking, instead it's formulaic. Scifi by numbers. Leave aside the lunacy around the casting changes and what exactly is the show doing that the rest of the herd of scifi shows isn't? Nothing. The gene is a case in point. That storyline has a thousand possible outcomes, Sheppard's an ancient, the son of an ancient, the gene was the result of deliberate manipulation in humans, humans are evolving into ancients (and those are just a couple of the options) they could have explored it in anyway they liked, however too simply abandon what was being built up all through series one???? Is that laziness, a lack of interest or simply as I suspect they know they cannot write ground breaking scifi so they're not even going to try? Now don't get me wrong there is an argument that if you know you cannot write big mythological themes you shouldn't try, it's better to make a good show than a bad one, but isn't a spectacular show better than a good one?

I don't know, they may very well have done the right thing, if you can't embrace the mythology of the show maybe it is better not to try, it just seems a bit of a waste to me. And I think that's a shame.

jenks
April 19th, 2008, 11:14 AM
It's a gene that was passed on from ancestral Ancients, half of the expedition now has it thanks to gene therapy, end of. I wouldn't call any of your suggestions groundbreaking, they're things that have been discussed on the forums many times, and the last thing the writers are going to do is write a storyline that already been suggested here. If you want to see a storyline happen, posting your idea here is pretty much the only sure fire way to make sure that it will never happen.

Arica12
April 19th, 2008, 11:17 AM
It's a gene that was passed on from ancestral Ancients, half of the expedition now has it thanks to gene therapy, end of. I wouldn't call any of your suggestions groundbreaking, they're things that have been discussed on the forums many times, and the last thing the writers are going to do is write a storyline that already been suggested here. If you want to see a storyline happen, posting your idea here is pretty much the only sure fire way to make sure that it will never happen.

Eh Jenks, I don't want to see something I can come up with, I want to see something that I - or anyone else of the forum - couldn't come up with, something new and exciting. That WOULD be groundbreaking.

Crichiel
April 19th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Dang! That is so disappointing to hear. I, too, have been unhappy with their dropping of Sheppard's 'specialness'. Even when everyone got the gene therapy, I was still under the impression that the strength and control that Sheppard had with his gene was unique. Like how Carson and McKay could barely fly the Jumpers for a long time. Don't get me wrong, Sheppard is still a great character, my favourite in fact, but everyone else seems to have a little extra something (Rodney and Radek aren't just smart, they are wicked smart. Teyla and Ronon aren't just good fighters, they are better than almost anyone else they have come up against), give Sheppard his due here!

It reminds me of when SG-1 ascended the entire population of Abydos in Full Circle. Or when on SGA Rodney tried to ascend through willpower. Kind of belittles the specialness of Daniel achieving Ascension because of his good character.

Azhar
April 19th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Also the one epsisode 'HOME' when the misty aliens mentioned how Sheppard was capable of uniquely mainuplating his own environment. i completely agree with the original poster how it all first started with him being unique in some way and now all that has 'simmered' down... :-(

p.s.
pet peeve - I get annoyed everytime when peeps refer the wraith was the defiant one in the 'Defiant One' but it was actually Sheppard when the wraith calls him 'your defiance will be your downfall or something'. cant rmemeber the actual quote right now but its pretty obvious the eps title was reffering to Sheppard.

Shepard is the man. :-)

(Have never posted anything before until now but feel its well worth it. :-)

Az.

Platschu
April 20th, 2008, 09:14 AM
When I've read Sheppard genes, I began to ask from myself : "What about the baby?". :D

Artemisn
April 20th, 2008, 04:03 PM
I agree completely. John's ancient gene should definitely be explored more. Someone earlier mentioned that as the "star" of the show, John needs something to set him apart from the rest of his team. And honestly, I honestly thought that Teyla's baby would be a whole heck of alot more important if he had both Teyla's Wraith DNA and John's Ancient gene. Oh well...another missed opportunity.

Mitchell82
April 20th, 2008, 04:29 PM
When I was at the VanCon a few weeks ago I asked Martin Gero during a tour if the writers would be expanding more on Sheppard's gene. Other than flying a jumper, shooting off drones and moving a city, which I admit was impressive, there hasn't been much action. He told me the writers have decided not to explore "that mythology any more." He said that alot of people have the gene now so it's not that special anymore. I was alittle surprised at that comment but wasn't able to pursue at that time.
With so many that have it either by inoculation, or genetics I see his point. They had to come up with a way for us to have more people that can operate Ancient tech when we were cut off from Earth.




However, wasn't it Weir that said she wanted Sheppard because he had the gene, "the likes we have never seen before"? Wasn't it Sheppard that replied to Weir, "isn't that why you brought me here"? Hasn't it been friend/foe (Wraith/Larrin) that have remarked in episodes "the one with the gene"? They certainly aren't looking at McKay
It's not that they hadn't seen it or knew what it was it was the fact that Shepard had the strongest ability with the gene. That's why she wanted him.


I feel there are so many possibilities that could be expanded upon, especially now that Michael is more of a force with his hybrids and who knows what' going on with Teyla's child. Sheppard could be a real force in the galaxy. Now he's more of a one dimensional character with signs of breaking out, but not the real force he could be.

Any thoughts?

I disagree. He still has plenty of depth and room to grow that has nothing to do with him having the gene.

Teslan
April 20th, 2008, 05:20 PM
I too always felt that the gene therapy was a bad idea (if that's what you're implying), and I wish they had juxtaposed more the Ancient and Wraith DNA storylines.

But I think its too late to fix it now, and the writers' are right when they say that would be really hard to continue that storyline with the way they've gone.

Maybe they felt it gave Sheppard too much of a super-hero feel. The whole premise was that these guys are supposed to be normal with their only special abilities being mad flying skill, supersmarts, etc.

Mitchell82
April 20th, 2008, 10:14 PM
I too always felt that the gene therapy was a bad idea (if that's what you're implying), and I wish they had juxtaposed more the Ancient and Wraith DNA storylines.
No I'm not saying it was bad because it did make sense but it did take the uniqueness out of Shep's abilties though he is still has the strongest ability IMO.


But I think its too late to fix it now, and the writers' are right when they say that would be really hard to continue that storyline with the way they've gone.

Maybe they felt it gave Sheppard too much of a super-hero feel. The whole premise was that these guys are supposed to be normal with their only special abilities being mad flying skill, supersmarts, etc.
I don't thin there is anything to fix IMO. They've done enough regarding Shep and the gene and now focus on deeper aspects of him which is good IMO.

ykickamoocow
April 21st, 2008, 12:15 AM
Ive always taking the idea of the ATA gene as

The genes are all the same strength no matter who has it but some people are more naturally gifted at using it. Thats not to say that people who have the gene but arnt naturally gifted cant learn (which we have seen with Carson and McKay flying a puddle jumper) but the person who can naturally use the gene has a advantage atleast until the others learn how to use the gene properly.

Sheppard - Can use the gene naturally and can work ancient technology straight away
McKay and Carson - Have the gene but it takes then awhile to learn how to use it but once they do they can work ancient technology (like the puddle jumper and control chair) as well as anyone.

Platschu
April 21st, 2008, 02:24 AM
I always hoped that they will reveal at the end of the series that Sheppard is an Ancient, who made a mistake and they deleted his memory. But later they introduced his family, so I had to give up this character twist. And it would be too similar to Babylon 5. :o So my second guess that Teyla has to be an undercover Wraith Queen. :D

ykickamoocow
April 21st, 2008, 02:35 AM
I always hoped that they will reveal at the end of the series that Sheppard is an Ancient, who made a mistake and they deleted his memory. But later they introduced his family, so I had to give up this character twist. And it would be too similar to Babylon 5. :o So my second guess that Teyla has to be an undercover Wraith Queen. :D

Or McKay is actually a Furling.

Platschu
April 21st, 2008, 02:39 AM
Or McKay is actually a Furling.
Huh. This is better, really. :P

Mitchell82
April 21st, 2008, 10:15 AM
Ive always taking the idea of the ATA gene as

The genes are all the same strength no matter who has it but some people are more naturally gifted at using it. Thats not to say that people who have the gene but arnt naturally gifted cant learn (which we have seen with Carson and McKay flying a puddle jumper) but the person who can naturally use the gene has a advantage atleast until the others learn how to use the gene properly.

Sheppard - Can use the gene naturally and can work ancient technology straight away
McKay and Carson - Have the gene but it takes then awhile to learn how to use it but once they do they can work ancient technology (like the puddle jumper and control chair) as well as anyone.
Agreed that's how I've always seen it aswell.

Mitchell82
April 21st, 2008, 10:16 AM
Or McKay is actually a Furling.

No just no...:S;)

wise one
April 21st, 2008, 11:17 AM
a smart enemy could use it to their advantage somewhat way the wraith did in rising

when sheppard found teylas necklace it set of the beacon cos of his gene maybe there some tech that if anyone with the gene cant work their tech or set off some sort of virus into them

similar to how ancinet tech requires it and the goauld on some of there items

micheals quite the biologist myabe..

Atlantis1
April 21st, 2008, 06:24 PM
I agree the gene was a strong point in the first season. I liked the idea but don't want to see Sheppard as an Ancient. They created sometime interesting for Sheppard that was part of what drew me to the series. It is a shame some creativity can't be put intohis natural use of the gene without making him different from other humans. I'm not sure at this point what it would be but I believe it could liven the series somewhat.

Arica12
April 22nd, 2008, 01:57 AM
I agree the gene was a strong point in the first season. I liked the idea but don't want to see Sheppard as an Ancient. They created sometime interesting for Sheppard that was part of what drew me to the series. It is a shame some creativity can't be put intohis natural use of the gene without making him different from other humans. I'm not sure at this point what it would be but I believe it could liven the series somewhat.

I would have liked Sheppard to be different from other humans simply because it would have been a interesting twist on the classic hero role however whatever they did with the storyline I would have hoped for a little more than for it just to be dropped and forgotten, that's just daft. (Though something of a theme on Atlantis)

Teslan
April 22nd, 2008, 07:29 PM
No I'm not saying it was bad because it did make sense but it did take the uniqueness out of Shep's abilties though he is still has the strongest ability IMO.


I don't thin there is anything to fix IMO. They've done enough regarding Shep and the gene and now focus on deeper aspects of him which is good IMO.

Well, I was originally talking to the OP, but no worries. But I'd like to know what deeper aspects do you think they have chosen to focus on?

Southern Red
May 14th, 2008, 04:57 AM
I think this thread needs further discussion. I mentioned this idea in several other places recently and people found it hard to believe. The wonderfully alert Killdeer pointed me toward this thread, and now I know I wasn't imagining things. Unfortunately.

This has got to be the worst idea they've ever had. The one thing that makes the show different from SG-1. The one thing that makes John different from everybody else and not just another action hero who shoots aliens, blows things up and saves people.

Here we have a man who can control Atlantis like no other, possibly even more than the Ancients themselves. Yet he just continues to be just another soldier with a quick wit and survival skills. Vast parts of the city remain unexplored that could have added to his mystique. He could have connected with Atlantis on so many levels. Just the look on his face after he flies the city in Adrift brings up a host of questions. Is he connected on a neural level? Does he hear things the others don't? Does Atlantis speak to him?

Unimaginable that they have a gold mine on their hands and just drop it. One would almost think they are marginalizing Sheppard and de-emphasizing his character to the point where anyone could take over as military commander.

Falcon Horus
May 14th, 2008, 05:15 AM
Unimaginable that they have a gold mine on their hands and just drop it. One would almost think they are marginalizing Sheppard and de-emphasizing his character to the point where anyone could take over as military commander.

Or McKay is much more interesting and he usurps all their imagination and time, and who knows maybe they'll explore his ability to control Atlantis and Ancient tech... Gotta keep track of that gene therapy research after all.

[/end snark]

ykickamoocow
May 14th, 2008, 05:29 AM
Sheppard's uniqueness is gone. He is now just another soldier on Atlantis, which is why he feels so stale and dull lately.

In the meantime, the writers are concentrating on all-girls teams, and younger and younger female prodigies.

*big yawn*

All Girl SGA team sounds like a amateur porn film to me :D

Anuna
May 14th, 2008, 05:30 AM
I think this thread needs further discussion. I mentioned this idea in several other places recently and people found it hard to believe. The wonderfully alert Killdeer pointed me toward this thread, and now I know I wasn't imagining things. Unfortunately.

This has got to be the worst idea they've ever had. The one thing that makes the show different from SG-1. The one thing that makes John different from everybody else and not just another action hero who shoots aliens, blows things up and saves people.

Here we have a man who can control Atlantis like no other, possibly even more than the Ancients themselves. Yet he just continues to be just another soldier with a quick wit and survival skills. Vast parts of the city remain unexplored that could have added to his mystique. He could have connected with Atlantis on so many levels. Just the look on his face after he flies the city in Adrift brings up a host of questions. Is he connected on a neural level? Does he hear things the others don't? Does Atlantis speak to him?

Unimaginable that they have a gold mine on their hands and just drop it. One would almost think they are marginalizing Sheppard and de-emphasizing his character to the point where anyone could take over as military commander.

Unfortunately for John, his fans and the science fiction the most interested aspect of John is going to be just tossed away - I mean WTF? Just like SR said, ATA mythology makes Atlantis different from SG - 1. ATA gene is what brought John to Atlantis, it's the very thing that saved him from staying in Antarctica, it's what makes him the most valuable man in Atlantis. Yet, better stories involving his unique genetics can be found among fan fiction than actual show episodes. Which is really sad. Having him connect to the city on some deeper level - personal, philosophical even - but hey, the writers don't seem able to pull that off - would really be something that makes sci fi genre what it really is. Sadly, all we get is some fiction with lots of action. Is John, the character who is my second favorite just going to fade away just like the ATA mythology?


Or McKay is much more interesting and he usurps all their imagination and time, and who knows maybe they'll explore his ability to control Atlantis and Ancient tech... Gotta keep track of that gene therapy research after all.

[/end snark]


It wouldn't surprise me much to see McKay first in the opening credits. Sadly. John IS the leading man. Elizabeth was - okay for me still is - the leading lady of the show. But the writers seem to miss the point completely. That's sad.

Falcon Horus
May 14th, 2008, 05:36 AM
Is John [...] just going to fade away just like the ATA mythology?

Looks to be the case, since both are pretty much intertwined with one another....sort of anyway.

PG15
May 14th, 2008, 05:40 AM
I don't think this is as dire as people think; we've got one line from Gero, and it's vague at best. "Mythology" of the gene? What does that even mean?

Perhaps the decision was made more recently, but Sheppard's Gene was important to the story as recent as Travelers. No reason why it won't be important later.

Southern Red
May 14th, 2008, 05:56 AM
I don't think this is as dire as people think; we've got one line from Gero, and it's vague at best. "Mythology" of the gene? What does that even mean?

Perhaps the decision was made more recently, but Sheppard's Gene was important to the story as recent as Travelers. No reason why it won't be important later.

As you can see in the part of the first post quoted here:


When I was at the VanCon a few weeks ago I asked Martin Gero during a tour if the writers would be expanding more on Sheppard's gene. Other than flying a jumper, shooting off drones and moving a city, which I admit was impressive, there hasn't been much action. He told me the writers have decided not to explore "that mythology any more." He said that alot of people have the gene now so it's not that special anymore. I was alittle surprised at that comment but wasn't able to pursue at that time.

<big snip>


Gero said at the VanCon, which if I'm not mistaken took place after S5 started filming, that they don't think Shep's gene is all that special anymore. I take the word mythology to mean the subject of Shep having a stronger gene and being able to do more with it.

In Travelers I don't think they zeroed in on him in particular, just anyone nearby with the gene. I may be wrong. But Gero seems to be talking future.

In my mind, this completely eliminates the last thing that made this show unique or nearly so. Now it's just another alien of the week saga.

PG-15, you're on good terms with JM. Why don't you go ask him on his blog if this is indeed true? That is if you can get him to admit Sheppard still exists.;) ;)

g.o.d
May 14th, 2008, 05:58 AM
In the meantime, the writers are concentrating on all-girls teams, and younger and younger female prodigies.

*big yawn*

I wonder why Teyla has a boy instead of having a girl :D

PG15
May 14th, 2008, 06:25 AM
PG-15, you're on good terms with JM. Why don't you go ask him on his blog if this is indeed true? That is if you can get him to admit Sheppard still exists.;) ;)

I shall do that. ;)

Southern Red
May 14th, 2008, 06:35 AM
Looks to be the case, since both are pretty much intertwined with one another....sort of anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the gene therapy suddenly shift into high gear and over take John's ability thus making McKay the one who can fly the city and connect on a mental level.

Falcon Horus
May 14th, 2008, 06:42 AM
It wouldn't surprise me to see the gene therapy suddenly shift into high gear and over take John's ability thus making McKay the one who can fly the city and connect on a mental level.

Where would that leave John then? Ready to be booted? :S

FoolishPleasure
May 14th, 2008, 07:41 AM
Sheppard's uniqueness is gone. He is now just another soldier on Atlantis, which is why he feels so stale and dull lately.

In the meantime, the writers are concentrating on all-girls teams, and younger and younger female prodigies.

*big yawn*

cityofroses
May 14th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Personally - and this isn't going to sound nice, it's not meant to be nasty it's just what I think is going on - I think the writers and present PTB have reached the limits of what they can do. They can write variations on a theme, politics, military conflict etc etc but there is nothing new. Rising promised a whole new world to explore, new terrifying aliens different from anything encountered before and the lost city of Atlantis and a whole fantastical storyline to follow with ancients. The scifi could have been - perhaps should have been - challenging and ground breaking, instead it's formulaic. Scifi by numbers.

I agree, the pilot and much of the first series had had a lot of potential to be a great show but instead it's turned out to be the Star Trek Voyager of the SG franchise, formulaic and just treading water to keep the franchise alive. I'm amazed they've never really explored the city and at the way they’ve watered down both the Wraith and the Ancients.

Falcon Horus
May 14th, 2008, 11:30 AM
I wonder why Teyla has a boy instead of having a girl :D

LOL!! Good point! :p

Mitchell82
May 14th, 2008, 05:25 PM
I think this thread needs further discussion. I mentioned this idea in several other places recently and people found it hard to believe. The wonderfully alert Killdeer pointed me toward this thread, and now I know I wasn't imagining things. Unfortunately.

This has got to be the worst idea they've ever had. The one thing that makes the show different from SG-1. The one thing that makes John different from everybody else and not just another action hero who shoots aliens, blows things up and saves people.

Here we have a man who can control Atlantis like no other, possibly even more than the Ancients themselves. Yet he just continues to be just another soldier with a quick wit and survival skills. Vast parts of the city remain unexplored that could have added to his mystique. He could have connected with Atlantis on so many levels. Just the look on his face after he flies the city in Adrift brings up a host of questions. Is he connected on a neural level? Does he hear things the others don't? Does Atlantis speak to him?

Unimaginable that they have a gold mine on their hands and just drop it. One would almost think they are marginalizing Sheppard and de-emphasizing his character to the point where anyone could take over as military commander.
I disagree. While Shep has shown the strongest ability with Ancient tech I think his gene is about as strong as O'neill's. They both have a unique ability to control Ancient tech. I like the way they have developed his character and don't feel that they have missed an opportunity here. They still focus on how Shep has controls Ancient tech without even breaking a sweat.

jelgate
May 14th, 2008, 06:08 PM
I disagree. While Shep has shown the strongest ability with Ancient tech I think his gene is about as strong as O'neill's. They both have a unique ability to control Ancient tech. I like the way they have developed his character and don't feel that they have missed an opportunity here. They still focus on how Shep has controls Ancient tech without even breaking a sweat.I have to disagree with that statment. Its Good To Be King and Moebius to me showed that O'Neil has to concentrate to use the Ancient gene while Rising showed Sheppard can use it with little or no effort. Which leads me to conclude that Sheppard's gene is stronger.

Southern Red
May 14th, 2008, 06:12 PM
I disagree. While Shep has shown the strongest ability with Ancient tech I think his gene is about as strong as O'neill's. They both have a unique ability to control Ancient tech. I like the way they have developed his character and don't feel that they have missed an opportunity here. They still focus on how Shep has controls Ancient tech without even breaking a sweat.

We are talking about the fact that they are not going to continue with the idea that Sheppard has a strong gene. Yes, they have emphasized it in the past but not anymore according to Martin Gero. That's why some of us are mad.

Which leaves me puzzled as to what exactly you disagree with?

Killdeer
May 14th, 2008, 06:48 PM
I have to disagree with that statment. Its Good To Be King and Moebius to me showed that O'Neil has to concentrate to use the Ancient gene while Rising showed Sheppard can use it with little or no effort. Which leads me to conclude that Sheppard's gene is stronger.

Good observation. I agree. :)

Mitchell82
May 14th, 2008, 09:01 PM
I have to disagree with that statment. Its Good To Be King and Moebius to me showed that O'Neil has to concentrate to use the Ancient gene while Rising showed Sheppard can use it with little or no effort. Which leads me to conclude that Sheppard's gene is stronger.
Actually I think you are right. O'neill does have a strong ability but Shep does it more naturally.

lcshepp
May 25th, 2008, 01:06 PM
While I was browsing through JM's blog not too long ago, JM made reference to an episode for S5 in which JS's gene plays a part. Has someone actually been listening to us?

Jumper_One
May 25th, 2008, 01:33 PM
While I was browsing through JM's blog not too long ago, JM made reference to an episode for S5 in which JS's gene plays a part. Has someone actually been listening to us?

could you post a link please

vaberella
May 25th, 2008, 02:01 PM
When I was at the VanCon a few weeks ago I asked Martin Gero during a tour if the writers would be expanding more on Sheppard's gene. Other than flying a jumper, shooting off drones and moving a city, which I admit was impressive, there hasn't been much action. He told me the writers have decided not to explore "that mythology any more." He said that alot of people have the gene now so it's not that special anymore. I was alittle surprised at that comment but wasn't able to pursue at that time.

I can't help but feel that they are missing an opportunity. Fans complain that SGA repeats SG1 and Star Trek episodes. Writers say that with 300 episodes alone of SG1/SGA and many more of Star Trek, that it hard not to find similar shows. They say they add their spin by showing how Atlantis and the team react to the episode. Okay, I'll accept that.

However, wasn't it Weir that said she wanted Sheppard because he had the gene, "the likes we have never seen before"? Wasn't it Sheppard that replied to Weir, "isn't that why you brought me here"? Hasn't it been friend/foe (Wraith/Larrin) that have remarked in episodes "the one with the gene"? They certainly aren't looking at McKay.

I feel there are so many possibilities that could be expanded upon, especially now that Michael is more of a force with his hybrids and who knows what' going on with Teyla's child. Sheppard could be a real force in the galaxy. Now he's more of a one dimensional character with signs of breaking out, but not the real force he could be.

Any thoughts?


Well the failure of Shep, McKay, Weir, Carson, and on some level Teyla since season 1 was basically the fact they were all one dimensional characters that had no life.

This continued on even despite the fact that they tried to do something more for Shep and Teyla in season three. Weir and Carson were ousted sine they backed those two characters into a wall and they just seemed forever stuck. Carson makes a reappearance, but then I never figured the character was out of the show for good.

For all the claims of adding something to John, they didn't add enough or in retrospect, they added what they did way to late in the game. I had complained in the past about the fact that the gene was one of the worst types of genes since it was 1) too easy to duplicate, 2) has been limited to flying a PJ or causing a bit of pyrotechnics, 3)nothing special any more even though John has the strongest type.


If we look at no.3 that alone should eliminate 1 and 2. First off all the peopel who have it now are running on it at a limited level ,and hence the reason it was only John and Carson who were...able to fly the ship or use the drones, although they tested out a few military. The second it just the flash of it, which turns it into a joke than anything else. I'm sorry to say that even the mutant Dazzler or Jubilee do more for pyrotechnics that John never has.

He's incredibly stilted and really not given the breadth he should have been given and his ability should have been showcased. It would definitely shut up Rodney from time to time and would make him as you said a force within the Peggy. ~sigh~ But I think any real work on that now will unfortunately be too late in giving John something else. It's lame they would give him an ability they intend to drop later.

I'm not paticularly angry about Martin Gero's statement, but actually I have been resigned to the fact that the Ancients and as such the gene is no longer of importance in SG. I figured since they came to Atlantis where the Ancients were chillin' first we'd have seen the gene as extremely important, but that's neither here nor there at this point.


If there is any use of his gene I just hope that it has little to do with pyrotechnics and/or flying a ship.

Yeade
May 26th, 2008, 02:42 AM
I haven't participated in a discussion here for a long, long time and have almost no idea what's happening in S5 but decided to add my two pence anyways because, historically, the ATA gene and Ancient technology are topics I obsess about. :o

First, let's consider the gene therapy. The success of Beckett's treatment doesn't really convince me as to there being no biological difference between the stronger natural ATA carriers and those whose gene was artificially induced for one reason: According to "Hot Zone," the therapy only takes in roughly half the recipients. This implies to me that Beckett's method is still missing at least one vital genetic piece; it doesn't give everybody a working ATA gene. Indeed, I've often theorized Beckett discovered a sort of key to the key and that his research finishes an ATA sequence in humans who've already evolved to a point just shy of having the gene naturally.

Now, while I agree it'd be interesting to see more exploration of Sheppard's mutant gene and the possible ramifications for Atlantis, I also feel this plot's a bit logistically difficult at the moment.

One fairly big obstacle is the character of John Sheppard, IMO. Suppose Atlantis or Ancient technology in general is speaking to him in one form or another beyond what others experience. How would anybody else know if Sheppard doesn't say so?

Sheppard's always struck me as a rather opaque personality when it comes to personal matters, and SGA's treated many of his defining traits, well, coyly (case in point: backstory or lack thereof). He also has a certain tendency to downplay his abilities unless they're absolutely necessary, I think. For example, his supposed math genius, his knowledge of Ancient systems (hotwiring the control chair in "Travelers"), and his ninja combat skills (slipping off alone to one-shot kill three Genii in "Harmony"). I keep coming back to his "naturally lazy" self-description. Why bother with the effort of using these talents when he's got people who can handle such situations better? Does a similar attitude extend to his ATA gene and any strange feedback Atlantis gives him? As in, other folks can work the tech and whatever extras he gets aren't relevant, in his opinion, so no reason to bring it up, right? :p

This is besides the possibility he may have been seriously weirded out by a hypothetical unique connection to Atlantis in S1, when he was new to all the wacky stargate stuff. I can definitely see Sheppard in denial then, lol. Especially as he had enough to worry over without thinking he was crazy for hearing the city or something. It probably wouldn't have been good for morale if the military commander were seen to be cracking under the pressure either.

Past S1, er, I guess he could've become so accustomed to his facility with Ancient technology that, as long as it does no harm and contributes little that others can't, he figures there's no need to freak people out. McKay certainly wouldn't let the issue slide--scientific study of Sheppard's ATA limits or that Sheppard didn't tell him immediately.

What's more, I think any expansion on Sheppard's gene would tend to snowball as the introduction of Teyla's Wraith DNA did. Because a change in Sheppard's interaction with Ancient tech or even just the perceptions of characters and viewers directly impacts Atlantis and every weird widget TPTB see fit to write in, I can understand not pursuing this idea when there's already so much to cram into a season. Not to mention many conceptions of this plot cross the line of being too convenient--a deus ex machina. Subtler variations, OTOH, are harder to convey and explain.

I believe there's a certain need to keep Atlantis a relatively safe base, as well. With the exceptions of episodes like "Sunday," it seems to me most of the threats the Atlanteans face are in the larger Pegasus galaxy. Even when the action takes place in the city, it's a matter of people inadvertently activating isolated, often damaged devices or running into complications due to modifications they made. I don't think Atlantis has felt truly alien and dangerous to me since S1. Say, "Hide and Seek" or "Hot Zone." Heck, I can't recall any mention of whether the entire city's been explored! Though the surprising underwater jumper bay and flooded sections in "The Return" point to, at best, a cursory scout of nonessential areas.

This is a major opportunity gone unexploited, IMO. However, given the myriad enemies and dubious allies the Atlanteans deal with throughout Pegasus, it might be a tad too stressful for all to have an uncomfortably mysterious home that's out to kill you. Characters and writers both, lol.

At any rate, I think Sheppard's frustratingly, intriguingly vague history and closed personality, assuming these carry through S5, make a later insertion of some ATA gene plot quite plausible.

Cautious Explorer
May 26th, 2008, 07:31 AM
Sadly, I think it boils down to one point -- If McKay can't have it, nobody can. If there were situations where Sheppard's more powerful gene were necessary, how would McKay save the day with technology? It's alright for Sheppard to excell at flying the jumper or using the control chair -- those are military things--but anything more starts to infringe on McKay's area.

IMO TPTB have become so obsessed with McKay that they've shortchanged the whole show. Sheppard's natural gene is fascinating and could make for some exciting storylines, but since it doesn't further McKay's character, we'll never see it.

jenks
May 26th, 2008, 07:48 AM
What's so fascinating about it? It's a gene that Sheppard, Beckett, Lorne and McKay have among others, the only difference is that Sheppard has a natural talent in using it, I'd say it's about as interesting as Ronon being able to punch people really hard. Now Teylas gene is interesting, that's worth exploring as it's pretty unique...

Cautious Explorer
May 26th, 2008, 07:52 AM
What's so fascinating about it? It's a gene that Sheppard, Beckett, Lorne and McKay have among others, the only difference is that Sheppard has a natural talent in using it, I'd say it's about as interesting as Ronon being able to punch people really hard. Now Teylas gene is interesting, that's worth exploring as it's pretty unique...

Yes, I'd have to say it is at least as interesting as Ronon's fighting abilities. A lot of people love to watch Ronon fight.

Sheppard's abilities with the Ancient gene have the potential of being every bit as unique as Teyla's Wraith DNA. It's liike any other gift or talent, many may have it to some extent, but it's more fun to see it used by masters.

Yeade
May 26th, 2008, 12:31 PM
Sadly, I think it boils down to one point -- If McKay can't have it, nobody can.While I agree Sheppard getting too friendly with Ancient technology might infringe upon McKay's area of scientific expertise, I feel this is more a reflection of the potentially deus ex machina nature of a big ATA gene plot than any TPTB favoritism for McKay at the expense of other characters. I mean, it's been suggested that Sheppard's a descended Ancient or some such. Wouldn't a development like that basically negate the role of the entire expedition? TPTB are right to tread carefully about connecting any character too closely with the Ancients, godlike builders of the stargates and Atlantis, regardless of other considerations, IMO.

Anyways, even if Sheppard's always getting helpful feedback from Ancient systems, he wouldn't necessarily contribute anything to fixing what's broken. Perhaps he can't because he doesn't have the technical knowledge to correctly interpret what he's seeing (or whatever). Maybe there isn't much useful information to begin with.

Furthermore, Sheppard trusts McKay. He has every confidence that McKay and his great big brain can spin a brilliant plan when needed, and he hasn't often been proved wrong. Colonel Naturally Lazy has no problem whatsoever letting other folks do their thing and save the day while he plays moral support. :p
What's so fascinating about it? It's a gene that Sheppard, Beckett, Lorne and McKay have among others, the only difference is that Sheppard has a natural talent in using it... Now Teylas gene is interesting, that's worth exploring as it's pretty unique...Personally, I wouldn't be quite so curious about Sheppard's ATA gene if there were a sensible explanation of why he's such a natural at using it when he had no experience with alien technologies prior to "Rising" and everybody else, including O'Neill, has to concentrate hard, painstakingly learn by practice, and still possibly never achieves the degree of control Sheppard's shown. Optional brain-zapping by Ancient devices included!

As for Teyla's Wraith DNA, I'm of the opinion that it's no more unique than the ATA gene. The father of Teyla's child--what's his name again?--has the same gene, though perhaps not at the same strength. Like the ATA gene. The Wraith genetics breed true and, from "The Gift" and Teyla's talk of "some" being able to sense the Wraith in "Rising," I figure there's as many as a dozen separate lineages carrying these traits. This figure's roughly on par, IIRC, with natural occurrences of the Ancient gene. In fact, especially strong expressions of the ATA gene are perhaps rarer given that there's two, three examples in SG-1 and SGA combined--Sheppard, O'Neill, Beckett.

Heck, there's even a line of dialogue in "The Gift" wherein Weir (I think) states that Teyla's Wraith DNA makes her no less human than Sheppard and his mutant gene.

Couple of related points:

Teyla's Wraith heritage is the product of a Wraith experiment gone wrong. The common assumption about natural ATA carriers is that there's an Ancient in their family tree. I happen to believe this applies only to strong expressions of the gene and wouldn't rule out eugenics.

There are certain operational parallels between Wraith and Ancient technologies. That Wraith hives work via a neural interface similar to Ancient tech was first introduced in "Misbegotten," IIRC. With Teyla being the only one capable of taking the helm when a Wraith isn't conveniently available. In "The Hive," a Wraith drone seemingly thinks the cell door open. Rather like Atlantis at times.

What's missing between city-ships and doors, lights, control panels, etc.? I say, Wraith cruisers and darts, which are equivalent to Ancient warships and puddle jumpers, respectively.

No human's taken a Wraith cruiser out for a spin yet, but Sheppard's flown and fought a Wraith dart. Twice, by my count. How? Maybe Wraith security stops at cruisers (why?), but I'm partial to Sheppard having dormant Wraith markers in his DNA courtesy of "Conversion" and possibly some additional tag (of ownership? kinship?) from "Common Ground." Nowhere near as concentrated, I guess, as Teyla's but sufficient to trick some Wraith systems into accepting him.

Of course, if this theory's true, Sheppard's not telling. Who knows? Maybe one day Teyla'll have a chance to closely study a Wraith dart while not dematerialized and call Sheppard on his lie by omission. Which would be no different than what he routinely does with regard to everything from his bug phobia to his family, lol.

PG15
May 26th, 2008, 12:45 PM
I think Teyla's Wraith "gene" is more unique simply because she's the only one of the expedition who has it.

Cory Holmes
May 26th, 2008, 12:52 PM
I think Sheppard's strong expression of the Ancient Gene is a random genetic fluke, much like hair colour and eye colour.

I also think that the was able to hotwire the Ancient Control Chair in Travellers because he's spend the last four years around McKay and is bound to have picked up a thing or two about Ancient technology in that time.

Cautious Explorer
May 26th, 2008, 02:35 PM
While I agree Sheppard getting too friendly with Ancient technology might infringe upon McKay's area of scientific expertise, I feel this is more a reflection of the potentially deus ex machina nature of a big ATA gene plot than any TPTB favoritism for McKay at the expense of other characters. I mean, it's been suggested that Sheppard's a descended Ancient or some such. Wouldn't a development like that basically negate the role of the entire expedition? TPTB are right to tread carefully about connecting any character too closely with the Ancients, godlike builders of the stargates and Atlantis, regardless of other considerations, IMO.

I don't mean it would necessarily infringe on McKay's scientific expertise, but it would certainly take some of the attention off McKay as the scientific mastermind who always has to save the day. Surely there's more to using Ancient equipment than tearing it appart to see how it works.

I also have no interest in the "Sheppard is a descended Ancient" theme. That would be too much.

It seems to me they're missing some potential stories where Sheppard could be more than the man who flies a jumper and shoots a gun. Seeing someone naturally use Ancient equipment is much more interesting to me than seeing someone plug their laptop into it to study how it works.

maylet
May 26th, 2008, 03:07 PM
When I was at the VanCon a few weeks ago I asked Martin Gero during a tour if the writers would be expanding more on Sheppard's gene. Other than flying a jumper, shooting off drones and moving a city, which I admit was impressive, there hasn't been much action. He told me the writers have decided not to explore "that mythology any more." He said that alot of people have the gene now so it's not that special anymore. I was alittle surprised at that comment but wasn't able to pursue at that time.

I can't help but feel that they are missing an opportunity. Fans complain that SGA repeats SG1 and Star Trek episodes. Writers say that with 300 episodes alone of SG1/SGA and many more of Star Trek, that it hard not to find similar shows. They say they add their spin by showing how Atlantis and the team react to the episode. Okay, I'll accept that.

However, wasn't it Weir that said she wanted Sheppard because he had the gene, "the likes we have never seen before"? Wasn't it Sheppard that replied to Weir, "isn't that why you brought me here"? Hasn't it been friend/foe (Wraith/Larrin) that have remarked in episodes "the one with the gene"? They certainly aren't looking at McKay.

I feel there are so many possibilities that could be expanded upon, especially now that Michael is more of a force with his hybrids and who knows what' going on with Teyla's child. Sheppard could be a real force in the galaxy. Now he's more of a one dimensional character with signs of breaking out, but not the real force he could be.

Any thoughts?

I think you're right. Why making such a big deal with his gene and now not taking about that anymore, yes more people have the gene, but that's because the therapy not like John has it.

Yeade
May 26th, 2008, 03:25 PM
I think Teyla's Wraith "gene" is more unique simply because she's the only one of the expedition who has it.Okay, you've got a point there. :p

Though I do agree with other posters about there being a stress on Sheppard's intuitive use of Ancient technology in "Rising" that got more or less dropped. Of course, I think Sheppard's affinity for things Ancient occasionally reappears in his dalliances with Ascended or near-Ascended women, lol. He also made a rather odd statement in "Progeny" on the Asurans not feeling "Ancienty."
I think Sheppard's strong expression of the Ancient Gene is a random genetic fluke, much like hair colour and eye colour.Now, I've always taken the Ancients seeding both the Milky Way and Pegasus with human life and Beckett's explanation of us being the "second evolution" to mean the Ancients are what we will eventually become, fancy ATA stuff and all. The basic premise of my ATA gene theory is that you get to be a natural carrier by one of two ways: 1) Evolution. 2) Direct descent from an Ancient.

These are distinct, IMO. ATA by evolution tends, I believe, to grow stronger and more prevalent with time; ATA by descent trends in exactly the opposite direction. You can make a good case for the latter in the recorded deterioration of the gene in the Lord Protectors of "The Tower" over the 10,000 years since the Ancients left Pegasus. McKay's accelerated evolution courtesy of the Ascend-o-matic and the resultant superpowers in "Tao of Rodney" is a pretty fair argument for the former, I think.

So, I can see most natural carriers and all successful gene therapy recipients being the product of evolution while especially strong expressions, like Sheppard and O'Neill, are possibly (fluke?) convergences of old Ancient lineages.

In fact, there's a somewhat concrete measure of Sheppard's gene strength from "The Tower"--better than any Lord Protector within the last three hundred years, IIRC. This, however, doesn't rule out Sheppard having a closer Ancient relative or, god forbid, being one himself because there's no way to tell when and how the bloodlines in "The Tower" crossed. Assuming Otho's records are even complete. In addition, the royal family and, presumably, all noble lineages are carefully bred for the sole purpose of maintaining gene strength whereas I doubt this was a concern for Sheppard's family.

Speaking of family, does Dave Sheppard have the ATA gene, too? I'm embarrassingly partial to the crack theory that John and Dave are in fact half-brothers, and John got his mutant gene from his mother. Who was a descended Ancient. :D
I also think that [Sheppard] was able to hotwire the Ancient Control Chair in Travellers because he's spend the last four years around McKay and is bound to have picked up a thing or two about Ancient technology in that time.Agreed. My point was more that Sheppard has these abilities but almost never shows them. This is typical of his rather opaque characterization, IMO, and lends credence to the idea that, if Sheppard's indeed getting more from his connection to Ancient tech than others, nobody would be able to tell unless he reveals it. Which I find unlikely. John Sheppard and willing personal disclosure? Bleeding stones come to mind.
I don't mean [Sheppard's gene] would necessarily infringe on McKay's scientific expertise, but it would certainly take some of the attention off McKay as the scientific mastermind who always has to save the day.'Fraid I can't imagine that happening, lol. Um. Correction: Depends on the nature of Sheppard's ATA skills.

We talking total control of all Ancient systems here? Or something more along the lines of instantaneous feedback on operating systems and access to functions you can recognize? In the second scenario, Sheppard's more of a, er, shortcut by which McKay can identify the problem and implement his solutions faster and better. That is, McKay can probably save the day without Sheppard's help but not as well. Assuming Sheppard's facility with Ancient technology isn't the crucial element in heading off a timed disaster. Not really different from their usual tag team, IMO. Except who's doing the theoretical (often Sheppard) and who's doing the practical (McKay with frequent assists from Zelenka) are switched.

I think there's actually a hint of this already. For instance, when Atlantis stalls during takeoff in "First Strike," Sheppard immediately concludes it's a power issue and tells McKay to fix it. Though Weir ultimately provides the answer to that one.

Cautious Explorer
May 26th, 2008, 03:42 PM
'Fraid I can't imagine that happening, lol. Um. Correction: Depends on the nature of Sheppard's ATA skills.

We talking total control of all Ancient systems here? Or something more along the lines of instantaneous feedback on operating systems and access to functions you can recognize? In the second scenario, Sheppard's more of a, er, shortcut by which McKay can identify the problem and implement his solutions faster and better. That is, McKay can probably save the day without Sheppard's help but not as well. Assuming Sheppard's facility with Ancient technology isn't the crucial element in heading off a timed disaster. Not really different from their usual tag team, IMO. Except who's doing the theoretical (often Sheppard) and who's doing the practical (McKay with frequent assists from Zelenka) are switched.

I think there's actually a hint of this already. For instance, when Atlantis stalls during takeoff in "First Strike," Sheppard immediately concludes it's a power issue and tells McKay to fix it. Though Weir ultimately provides the answer to that one.

I'd like to see something in between descended Ancient and shortcut for McKay to understand the equipment. I'm not interested in analysis or as I said, watching McKay plug in a laptop to save the day. I'd just like to find out more about the gene and how Sheppard can utilize it. I just like watching Sheppard period. :)

lcshepp
May 26th, 2008, 04:27 PM
When I first posted Martin Gero's comment to me at the con I wasn't expecting much of a response. Glad to know I was wrong. I think it would be very interesting to see Sheppard, with his ATA gene superiority and Teyla, with her Wraith DNA square off. If done well it could be a very powerful series arc. TPTB might not be up for it or are too afraid to tackle it.

Will continue to look for Joe Mallozzi's comment about S5 and Sheppard's gene.

lcshepp
May 26th, 2008, 04:57 PM
A follow-up on Joe M.'s comment from his blog. On May 18th someone posted the question whether Sheppard's gene would make an appearance like it did in 'Travelers'. Joe M.'s response was "possibly".

Ya know, like, throw a dog a bone.

vaberella
May 26th, 2008, 09:49 PM
When I first posted Martin Gero's comment to me at the con I wasn't expecting much of a response. Glad to know I was wrong. I think it would be very interesting to see Sheppard, with his ATA gene superiority and Teyla, with her Wraith DNA square off. If done well it could be a very powerful series arc. TPTB might not be up for it or are too afraid to tackle it.

Will continue to look for Joe Mallozzi's comment about S5 and Sheppard's gene.

When I read Shep vs. Teyla in a deathmatch. I kept thinking Crazy Buffy vs. Dark Willow-----I don't think I'd like to see S vs. T, it's a bit tacky.

At this point, I'd just like to see his gene utilized for other things than pyrotechnics.

Kris_x-303
May 27th, 2008, 01:27 AM
The only thing that makes me asks questions is, in 'The Tower', and quiet a few other episodes, im just using The Tower as an example.. (In Spoilers incase anyone hasnt seen 'The Tower'..

They mention that the gene has been passed down from generation to generation, meaning probably abit more then 10,000 years before the ancients left, then the ancients left and came to earth mingled with the people spread the gene so the oldest gene family on earth would be 10,000 years, so hows Sheppards gene so strong?

rarocks24
May 27th, 2008, 07:25 AM
The only thing that makes me asks questions is, in 'The Tower', and quiet a few other episodes, im just using The Tower as an example.. (In Spoilers incase anyone hasnt seen 'The Tower'..

They mention that the gene has been passed down from generation to generation, meaning probably abit more then 10,000 years before the ancients left, then the ancients left and came to earth mingled with the people spread the gene so the oldest gene family on earth would be 10,000 years, so hows Sheppards gene so strong?

Sheppard's gene is so strong because he is made of 50% human, 50% Ancient, and 50% awesome. That's 150% percent mother****er. :P

But in all seriousness, maybe Sheppard's ancestors just bred all the time with the right people that kept the genes so strong?

Mitchell82
May 27th, 2008, 10:59 AM
We are talking about the fact that they are not going to continue with the idea that Sheppard has a strong gene. Yes, they have emphasized it in the past but not anymore according to Martin Gero. That's why some of us are mad.

Which leaves me puzzled as to what exactly you disagree with?

I disagree that 1) they are ignoring that Shep has a strong concentration of the gene and 2) that we need more backstory on the gene instead of Shep himself.

Constanza
May 27th, 2008, 11:10 AM
But in all seriousness, maybe Sheppard's ancestors just bred all the time with the right people that kept the genes so strong?

Ah! Good question! But, yeah, that makes sense… Sheppard must descend directly from a pure ancient’s line.

vaberella
May 27th, 2008, 11:13 AM
I disagree that 1) they are ignoring that Shep has a strong concentration of the gene and 2) that we need more backstory on the gene instead of Shep himself.


Well Mitch...the OP's post actually implies that they are ignoring that Shep has a strong concentration of the gene. As the OP paraphrased Martin Gero as saying, so many people on the show have it (paraphrased). In effect, the message that I read was why concentrate on a gene that is found in so many people.

Something that irks me about and around that statement is the fact that if we look back to Before I Sleep or even Epiphany, we are told that even though the Ancients had these genes they all had different types of powers. That they were sort of specialized in their functions. We don't see that with John at all, and the implication that the gene is uninteresting and not a viable story of interest actually can be argued by the eps mentioned. The above eps actually provide an outlet to produce a story around the gene in paticular Johns and expand on it. Currently all he does is play SIMON all over Atlantis. If they need a strong Ancient gene, call on John and have him light it up. That's what's boring and insignifican about his gene and I'm surprised, if we're taking the statement by the OP as paraphrased by Martin Gero at face value, they've missed out and would be missing out on a great chance.

As a matter of fact I tend to agree with you on the need for Backstory of the gene. That actually is not necessary. What we need to know about the gene is it's functions as seen through John. The extent, range, and specialty of his gene...then we can learn about John. And if the writers choose, they can add a bit of backstory to that story element. John's gene in affect should have a built up similar to the way Teyla's wraith gene works. There are always new things to learn, and giving that John is half Ancient and the Peggy was their original home ground there should be some effects dealing with that.

Further more this opens the doors to a chance to probably learn more about Atlantis. So all of these can co-incide.

Although I agree the implication that the writers may be ignoring Shep's gene as described by the OPs first post, alternately I have to agree with you that we need more of the 'genes' backstory. We need to know the gene more in relation to John. Not the gene solution itself.

Mitchell82
May 27th, 2008, 11:44 AM
Well Mitch...the OP's post actually implies that they are ignoring that Shep has a strong concentration of the gene. As the OP paraphrased Martin Gero as saying, so many people on the show have it (paraphrased). In effect, the message that I read was why concentrate on a gene that is found in so many people.
Which is why I a siding with Martin on this issue. I don't see one example that shows that they are ignoring that he has the strongest gene. He still has the best ability to control Ancient tech.


Something that irks me about and around that statement is the fact that if we look back to Before I Sleep or even Epiphany, we are told that even though the Ancients had these genes they all had different types of powers. That they were sort of specialized in their functions. We don't see that with John at all, and the implication that the gene is uninteresting and not a viable story of interest actually can be argued by the eps mentioned.
Because John isn't an Ancient, nor is he a descendant on the path of Ascension. John simply has a gene that allows him to operate Ancient tech just like the gene that allows someone to be right or left handed. He just has a dense concentration of the gene.
The above eps actually provide an outlet to produce a story around the gene in paticular Johns and expand on it. Currently all he does is play SIMON all over Atlantis. If they need a strong Ancient gene, call on John and have him light it up. That's what's boring and insignifican about his gene and I'm surprised, if we're taking the statement by the OP as paraphrased by Martin Gero at face value, they've missed out and would be missing out on a great chance.
I disagree. They've utilized his abilities perfectly and as I previously said he isn't an Ancient so he wouldn't have their advanced mental/physical abilities.


As a matter of fact I tend to agree with you on the need for Backstory of the gene. That actually is not necessary. What we need to know about the gene is it's functions as seen through John. The extent, range, and specialty of his gene...then we can learn about John. And if the writers choose, they can add a bit of backstory to that story element. John's gene in affect should have a built up similar to the way Teyla's wraith gene works. There are always new things to learn, and giving that John is half Ancient and the Peggy was their original home ground there should be some effects dealing with that.
No John isn't half Ancient. He simply has a characteristic of the Ancients ie the ability to use their technology.



Although I agree the implication that the writers may be ignoring Shep's gene as described by the OPs first post, alternately I have to agree with you that we need more of the 'genes' backstory. We need to know the gene more in relation to John. Not the gene solution itself.
No we don't. We know that the gene was passed down through the bloodline of many people throughout the known Universe we don't need to know how far back in his family tree that gene goes.

Yeade
May 27th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Okay, I kind of let this thread run away from me, so I'm just going to generally address a few of the issues raised in the last page or so.

Though I admit I'm not familiar with SG-1, my understanding of the Ancient timeline is that they migrated from their home galaxy to the Milky Way, then to Pegasus after being hit with a plague, and finally back to Earth when the Wraith overwhelmed them. From "Rising," I've got a date of "several million years ago" for the second move, and the accepted figure for the third is 10,000 years ago. Assuming human evolution on Earth went about as modern science says, the Ancients in the Milky Way could only have interbred with humans after returning from Pegasus.

Note also that though the majority of the Ancients presumably fled Pegasus 10,000 years ago, some may have remained. Chaya's bound to protect Proculus, and I wouldn't be surprised if other Ancients continued to live in both the Ascension retreat ("Epiphany") and Atlantis's sister city ("The Tower") decades after the exodus. Maybe the Ancient crews of grounded ships like the Hippaforalkus ("Inferno") went native, too. This allows perhaps a dozen or more generations of Ancient contact for the gene to breed into the royal lineages of "The Tower" folks as well as raises the possibility of there being more Ancient descendants in Pegasus where, thanks to the Wraith, natural ATA carriers are truly rare. I'd peg Teer and her ancestors as one of these bloodlines.

Everything's further complicated by rogue Ascendants materializing whenever they wish to make nice with humans in both galaxies and time-traveling Ancients like Janus.

What does all this mean for Sheppard and his mutant gene? Any Pegasus comparisons of gene strength are inconclusive, IMO. Which leaves Sheppard as one of the two, possibly the, strongest natural ATA genes found on Earth. Back to square one.

As for the Ancients, Teer et al., and McKay in "Tao of Rodney" having psychic abilities in addition to super ATA genes, so far as I can figure, there's no real evidence of a causal relationship between the two. That is, the gene and powers may be independent signs of advanced Ancient/human evolution. Sheppard needn't have both to have one.

Not that this rules out Sheppard leaving the Cloister with a few extra talents. Again, because of who he is and the six-month forced vacation I'm sure he'd rather forget about, he probably waited for whatever-it-was to wear off without telling anyone. I'd say there's a circumstantial argument for this idea in that Teer invited Sheppard to come along when she and the rest of the villagers ascended. Unless Teer intended to help Sheppard a la Oma Desala--an act I understand is cause for her being an outcast among the other Ascended--the implication's that Teer thought Sheppard could manage it himself. Add that Sheppard successfully coached McKay in Ascension despite looking like he fell asleep in meditation during "Epiphany" and Chaya's continued insistence that Sheppard wasn't much different from her even after she was outed as an Ascendant, and you've got the start of a pretty good fanfic. :D

Mitchell82, I can't speak for others, but it's not so much a matter of TPTB ignoring that Sheppard has the strongest ATA gene for me as that there's no explanation of why or how Sheppard, of all the billions and billions of people on Earth, got this rare trait. He seems better with Ancient technology than any of the other natural carriers by a margin wider than I'd expect given evolution or comparable Ancient descent. As for the gene therapy, I'd bet that Beckett derived his treatment from Sheppard's gene. Or at least made a number of refinements based on study of Sheppard.

Could be Sheppard's family just happened to breed with the right people such that the ATA gene strengthened with each generation instead of weakened. However, given that eugenics for this very purpose in "The Tower" couldn't prevent the slow deterioration of a similar gene over a similar time period and the small percentage of Earth's population likely to have the right DNA, I think Sheppard being a total genetic fluke is somewhat statistically improbable.

I wouldn't definitively claim that Sheppard isn't half-Ancient or whatever either. Actually, I believe pretty much the whole point of this debate is that such a plot twist is possible. Like Cautious Explorer, I feel Sheppard as a descended Ancient would be a bit much--though I think it can be done well if Sheppard doesn't remember--but there are other options. A close Ancient relative, the product of some Ancient experiment, related to the Ori, Lamarckian evolution since arriving in Atlantis, etc. TPTB would have to step lightly, but the ramifications are interesting, IMO.

Srksoph
August 6th, 2008, 03:21 PM
This is the first post I have made so forgive mistakes. This topic fascinates me because I was really interested in this aspect of Atlantis and I thought what makes Sheppard an interesting character. I wish the writers would do more with his ability to operate the technology, the Wraith, Travelers and goodness knows who else are interested in his gene ability. I don't see them wanting Rodney too much in this regard. It would be nice to see a mythology about the Ancients. Frankly I thought Atlantis would do this a bit more. Although I really like the Teyla character it kind of annoys me that she has become sort of like extraordinarly in her ability to fly the Wraith hive, control a wraith queen, have a supposed super baby that if I read spoilers may play a part in Michael's plans or at least desires. Anyway, I wrote a fanfic to try to explain the gene thing and the link to the ancestors. A feeble attempt but I thought how cool it was for Sheppard to fly a puddle jumper without thinking, send drones to targets as if there was no tomorrow, and then with a mere thought fly an Ancient ship. Anyway. Just my two cents and I know that is not worth much, but I am going to keep reading and writing about this because I really would just love to learn more about the Ancients and really would like to see Sheppard step into his own regarding using the Ancient technology and actually having that recognized as amazing. But hey I'm a big Shep fan!

ablevins425
August 6th, 2008, 03:55 PM
It's a gene that was passed on from ancestral Ancients, half of the expedition now has it thanks to gene therapy, end of. I wouldn't call any of your suggestions groundbreaking, they're things that have been discussed on the forums many times, and the last thing the writers are going to do is write a storyline that already been suggested here. If you want to see a storyline happen, posting your idea here is pretty much the only sure fire way to make sure that it will never happen.

Not entirely true, someone in Season 2 posted the idea of the gate bridge, which eventually came to be. It was destroyed rather early, but with Stargate I am used to that.

Merlin1701
August 7th, 2008, 12:28 AM
I'll just nod my head.

Yaskaleh
August 7th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Finding this threads feels like finding a long lost friend :D.
I've too been very interested in this gene-story since all of it surrounding O'neill and then later Sheppard. Weir said in Rising that they had only been able to find a handful of people where the gene is natural. From what i can remember there has only been 5 people recognised to posses the ancient gene naturally: O'neill, Beckett, Lorne, Sheppard and the guy who shared experiences with O'neill.

As has been meantioned before, those who possess the gene naturally are all descended of Ancients who interbred with humans. When the Ancients returned to earth after leaving Atlantis, they split up into 3 groups. Those who taught civilisation to the primitive humans of earth and interbred with them resulting in people like Sheppard, those who went into reclusion to Ascend(pukes) and those who used the Antarctica gate to travel out to the rest of the Milky Way.

One thing which has been bothering me for a long time is the notion that the humans of the stargate universe will one day evolve and become like the ancients. If you go by the evolution theory this is completely impossible. For that to happen you would have to bring the exact same condition for evolution as the Ancients to become as they are. The only way for this to happen is if the Ancients somehow programmed the dakara device to inprint a forced evolution onto the new life they seeded after the plague so that someone could become like them or if TPTB has their own evolution theory where there is a predetermined goal to evolution.

Sorry for my wall of text but I had to get that out of my system. I've been an ATA-gene and Ancient(without all the ascension crap) fanatic since they were first meantioned.

Infernorhythm
August 7th, 2008, 09:54 PM
Funny, I was recently rewatching Rising and the discussion of the gene caught my attention. They said Sheppard used it "naturally" and aside from O'Neill no one else really had that intuitive amount of skill (and from what has been shown, Sheppard seems more gifted with it than O'Neill).

I mean, he was brought to Atlantis to be the guy who uses Ancient tech. I think the closest TPTB have come to really examining it was when Sheppard used The Chair in The Siege and First Strike. It's a great idea that's been pushed to the wayside. I'm not saying it should be the main focus of the character, but it would be great to see it explored again.

Oh yeah, it would be interesting to see someone with BOTH the Ancient Gene and the Wraith DNA.

Yaskaleh
August 8th, 2008, 07:04 AM
I've been watching thourgh season one (I got all seasons a week ago :D) and in the episode with the mist people, they meantiomned that SheppardWas the only one to truelly be able to manipulate his false reality. I didn't really think of it the first time through but they seem to be hinting all the time that sheppard isn't a normal person. Even the ascended girl who he gets intimate with said that it felt like being with her own kind, being with Sheppard.

Hopefully they will fully unfold what they have been hinting at for seasons now.

Falcon Horus
August 8th, 2008, 07:10 AM
Hopefully they will fully unfold what they have been hinting at for seasons now.

I wouldn't count on it. I bet they've forgotten about that a long time ago.

Kezia
August 8th, 2008, 07:19 AM
Hopefully they will fully unfold what they have been hinting at for seasons now.

I wouldn't count on it. I bet they've forgotten about that a long time ago.
Yeah, wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you. What they were probably hinting at was that Shep is the heroic team leader who will always end up saving the day because he is simply awesome. :)

Southern Red
August 8th, 2008, 08:02 AM
I've been watching thourgh season one (I got all seasons a week ago :D) and in the episode with the mist people, they meantiomned that SheppardWas the only one to truelly be able to manipulate his false reality. I didn't really think of it the first time through but they seem to be hinting all the time that sheppard isn't a normal person. Even the ascended girl who he gets intimate with said that it felt like being with her own kind, being with Sheppard.

Hopefully they will fully unfold what they have been hinting at for seasons now.

Oh dear. We seem to be dashing your hopes a lot. So very sorry. But someone, I think it may have been Gero, said in an interview that they are pretty much dropping the super Shep idea in relation to the gene. Wouldn't want him to be more powerful, smarter or in any way superior to McKay you know. That last part was just me being p***y.

Yaskaleh
August 8th, 2008, 08:22 AM
My hopes can never be dulled unless Atlantis ends and no closure on Super Sheppard ;).

Arica15
August 8th, 2008, 09:16 AM
Oh dear. We seem to be dashing your hopes a lot. So very sorry. But someone, I think it may have been Gero, said in an interview that they are pretty much dropping the super Shep idea in relation to the gene. Wouldn't want him to be more powerful, smarter or in any way superior to McKay you know. That last part was just me being p***y.

I think it's a fair comment, McKay is promoted (and now keller as well) at the expense of everyone else.

The slightly strange quality that Sheppard had in season 1 is a story begging to be told, but sadly the writers seem incapable beyond anything that doesn't involve the afore mentioned Keller and McKay.

New writers please.

Yaskaleh
August 8th, 2008, 09:48 AM
Don't. Just don't. Don't start that here in this thread. Been nagged enough in every other thread.

I'm a huge McKay/Keller fan besides being a Super-Sheppard fan.

Arica15
August 8th, 2008, 09:53 AM
Don't. Just don't. Don't start that here in this thread. Been nagged enough in every other thread.

I'm a huge McKay/Keller fan besides being a Super-Sheppard fan.

Why not? no one's nagging you, you disagree fair enough but I do happen to think Sheppard's been neglected in favor of those who cannot be mentioned

Sheppard and something that was established as being a big part of the character is being ignored in favor of other characters, why not say it if it's what I think?

I want to see the gene story but with writing of this calibre maybe it would be a good thing if they just leave it as an unexplored possibility, may be better that way.

Yaskaleh
August 8th, 2008, 09:55 AM
Well, can't dissagree with that. But my beef is that people just use McKay and/or Keller for blame. The problem is that EVERYTHING has gone before what I'd call the first mystery of Atlantis, Sheppard, his gene and why he is so strong.

Arica15
August 8th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Well, can't dissagree with that. But my beef is that people just use McKay and/or Keller for blame. The problem is that EVERYTHING has gone before what I'd call the first mystery of Atlantis, Sheppard, his gene and why he is so strong.

Fair enough but I also think your right about everything else coming before Sheppard.

I don't know, maybe there afraid of where the storyline might take them?

Yaskaleh
August 8th, 2008, 10:35 AM
Probably so. Though I can't understand why. Would have given them more to work with which would then prolong the possible lifelength of Atlantis.

GhostPoet
August 8th, 2008, 10:56 AM
I'd be almost afraid to see them go down the route of exploring his gene more. I don't want him to become some sort of ancient super-soldier or something. :)

Yaskaleh
August 8th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Well, super-soldier would inply that he would be more than he otherwise would be. Exploring the power of his gene would just be exploring his potential.

Heaven
August 8th, 2008, 11:38 AM
considering how badly Teyla's "gift" was handled I have little faith they can make Sheppard's gene story work this late in the series.
it's a shame really, the most exciting things in season 1 were Sheppard's gene, Teyla's gift, and the wraith shadows.

two of them have been abandoned and the the other completely mishandled imo.

Yaskaleh
August 8th, 2008, 11:59 AM
:indeed: