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GateWorld
April 10th, 2008, 01:32 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4101.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">REVELATIONS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 410</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
D'Anna's ploy to draw four of the Final Five out of the Colonial fleet leads to a hostage stand-off, with one of the Cylons offers himself as a bargaining chip. A critical clue to the location of Earth is discovered.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Kilharae
June 13th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Holy Crap.

Shipperahoy
June 13th, 2008, 07:01 PM
OMG! I am barely coherant right now the episode was that good. I'll try to be more in depth a little later.

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:02 PM
WOOOOHOOOOO! We found Earth! I wanted to hug all the characters too! :D:D:D:D:D

Until that last bit.....Something nasty went down it seems. :S

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:03 PM
the happiest moment in these peoples lives and it lasted a minute

ToasterOnFire
June 13th, 2008, 07:04 PM
WHAT the HELL?

Also, neither Roslin nor Baltar are the dying leader then?

Chev's Ron
June 13th, 2008, 07:04 PM
This episode can be summed up with one word. Dumfounding.

Not only did we get to see Tigh confront Adama about being a final five (four) but also we saw Kara Thrace's reaction to Anders being a cylon. Personally I am very interested in seeing how that affects their already strained relationship.

Finally, We see earth... Not exactly what everyone was hoping for. But then again, what did they expect the 13th tribe to do? after all, they are human. I can't believe however that no one at all survived, if the civilization was as advanced as it is now, some people hiding in shelters or radiation-bunkers would survive. I mean look at caprica, the resistance lasted for a long time. In modern day USA, there are bunkers designed for people to live in them throughout a nuclear winter.

(Also, if for some reason the colonials settle earth, lose the location of the colonies, and somehow believe that some advanced civilization lives on the colonies, and return there only to find the same thing on caprica, it would be a horrible yet good reminder of all this has happened before...)

The music signal returning was also a nice touch, I know for sure now that Kara's viper is connected to the final five, if it wasn't for D'anna saying that their were only four in the fleet, I would think that Kara was the final cylon.

Can't wait until next year!

Lady Snow
June 13th, 2008, 07:04 PM
I want to have Bear McCreary's babies. That orchestral bit with the yellow sunlight - truly beautiful.

And what the frak was Lee's little striptease on the DRADIS table? I mean, I'm not complaining, per se, but it was... odd.

However, EJO wins the season.

MrBojangles
June 13th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Was that bridge what I think it was?

Fish in a Barrel
June 13th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Well... I wasn't expecting that.

jree
June 13th, 2008, 07:05 PM
that almost looked like the brooklyn bridge in New York at the end.

MrBojangles
June 13th, 2008, 07:05 PM
that almost looked like the brooklyn bridge in New York at the end.

Exactly.

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:05 PM
the happiest moment in these peoples lives and it lasted .......a minuteOh gods yeah. When Lee jumped on the console and threw his jacket I giggled tearyness. :P

Life in the Galacticaverse kinda sucks.....

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:07 PM
oh snapples the planet was nuked

reminds me of the first 2 fallout games which where set in a post nuclear apocalyptic setting(with a 50's twist) ~

Lady Snow
June 13th, 2008, 07:07 PM
WHAT the HELL?

Also, neither Roslin nor Baltar are the dying leader then?

Ditto. Times a million.

rarocks24
June 13th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Was that bridge what I think it was?

Now that you said it, that's exactly what it looks like.

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:08 PM
that almost looked like the brooklyn bridge in New York at the end.Did it? I don't know what Brooklyn Bridge looks like exactly. Must have screencaps NOW.

And I've decided that Bear McCreary is the Cylon God. :D

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:08 PM
i so want a sig, wallpaper and full size panting of the fleet and the sun showing in the background

most beautiful cgi moment ever

fatarse
June 13th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Too intense. Looks like we nuked ourselves. I was hoping that they would give us some clues of who the last cylon is.

skull24
June 13th, 2008, 07:09 PM
They did it, Those stupid mother******s did it! They blow it all up! Arrrrrr Lol
Sucks, they find Earth and it's a radioactive waste land. I'm sure the people of Earth had a plan B. But I guess we will all find out next year.

KhaosNite13
June 13th, 2008, 07:09 PM
I was quite expecting to see the Statue of Liberty. But at least this didn't end in an epic cliffhanger like season 3's mid-season finale.

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:10 PM
i so want a sig, wallpaper and full size panting of the fleet and the sun showing in the background

most beautiful cgi moment everMe tooo! :D


Too intense. Looks like we nuked ourselves. I was hoping that they would give us some clues of who the last cylon is.That last cylon isn't in the fleet according to D'Anna (pretty huge clue), so it is SO Zak. The theory lives! :D

phenioxarisen
June 13th, 2008, 07:11 PM
so is there a time frame for when the last half of the season start or is it just 09 right now?

ToasterOnFire
June 13th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I was sure Tigh was going to bite it. And after he had a hand in airlocking those people post-NC, yeesh. Run Starbuck, run!

Was that the Adama/Roslin s4 promotional pic framed in Adama's study when Roslin convinced him to go to Earth? Aw. :)

Still hoping Tyrol finds out the truth about Tory.

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I was quite expecting to see the Statue of Liberty. But at least this didn't end in an epic cliffhanger like season 3's mid-season finale.How was this not an epic cliffhanger!?!?!?! This was beyond epic! Last year's was wimpy by comparison. :D

jackattack
June 13th, 2008, 07:11 PM
My brain is fried.
I don't know what to say. I just can't believe it.
What are they going to do in the back half?
And what about the dying leader and the Kara's prophecy?
Completely brainfried and amazed.

younger
June 13th, 2008, 07:12 PM
wow, finally they found earth..... i was feeling to proud of colonial of people and clyon too... once they land on earth ...they touch on new york....
now what....of course it mid season final .... but now what?
what next season of 2009 what happening? rebuild earth?

titans
June 13th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Aaaaaaagggghhhhhhh!!!

thorshammer
June 13th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Holy Crap indeed. :eek: Killer ending, Before they landed I was thinking that Earth would not be what they expected it to be and it was possible (since humans are a very violent race) it was all nuked but I thought "Nah, they couldn't/wouldn't do that. It would be to cruel". And sure enough it happened. Wonder what's gonna happen next...

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:14 PM
all this has happen before and it will again

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:15 PM
all this has happen before and it will againAll of this has happened before but it doesn't have to happen again. :D

MrBojangles
June 13th, 2008, 07:15 PM
all this has happen before and it will again

next year :(

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:15 PM
All of this has happened before but it doesn't have to happen again. :D

but it did

first the colonies and now earth :(

maybe the humans rebelled against the cylons

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:16 PM
How was this not an epic cliffhanger!?!?!?! This was beyond epic! Last year's was wimpy by comparison. :D

yes I agree
last years was

OMG they are what and

OMG how are they going to get out of this!


this one was

OMG they reach Earth! the place they have shrived for since the beginning... oh damn its in worse shape than the colonies we left! what are they going to do now *cries*

anotherquestion
June 13th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Me tooo! :D

That last cylon isn't in the fleet according to D'Anna (pretty huge clue), so it is SO Zak. The theory lives! :D

Could be Baltar, D'anna knew he wasn't on Galactica
Could be someone we haven't met yet.
Could be the "real" Kara, dead in her crashed "real" Viper, grasping the homing beacon.

Fjord
June 13th, 2008, 07:16 PM
They did it, Those stupid mother******s did it! They blow it all up! Arrrrrr Lol
Sucks, they find Earth and it's a radioactive waste land. I'm sure the people of Earth had a plan B. But I guess we will all find out next year.

Yeah its called Mars......

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:17 PM
yes I agree
last years was

OMG they are what and

OMG how are they going to get out of this!


this one was

OMG they reach.... Earth the place we have shrived for since the beginning... oh damn its in worse shape than the colonies where! what are we going to do now *cries*Oh gods I know. I was thinking, yeah, just pack up and go back to Caprica. This place is even more depressing. But wow.....to go from one nuked planet all that way just to find another. Heartbreaking. :S:(

Xicer
June 13th, 2008, 07:18 PM
All I can say is...FINALLY!! Though I wasn't expecting the fleet to find Earth so early in the season. Well anyway, the episode title definitely lives up to its name! I guess its kinda sad that they find a post-apocalyptic Earth, but hey, this is the Galactica universe, that's about as happy as things usually get. :p

Lady Snow
June 13th, 2008, 07:18 PM
once they land on earth ...they touch on new york....

Just once, I'd like to see people land on a future Earth in the middle of the (American) midwest. Or, you know, anywhere but New frakking York. Or places that look like New frakking York.

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Could be Baltar, D'anna knew he wasn't on Galactica
Could be someone we haven't met yet.
Could be the "real" Kara, dead in her crashed "real" Viper, grasping the homing beacon.

Could be- Helo is still in the running as well if you interpret it that way, but I think most of our candidates have been wiped (good thing for most of them), Zarek, Dee, Gaeta, Romo, etc.

If you take D'Anna for her word. Which I suspect is good in this case. Why would she lie here?

fatarse
June 13th, 2008, 07:20 PM
They did it, Those stupid mother******s did it! They blow it all up! Arrrrrr Lol
Sucks, they find Earth and it's a radioactive waste land. I'm sure the people of Earth had a plan B. But I guess we will all find out next year.


I felt the same. When I saw the wasteland, I said, "WTF"! When they air the preview to the next episode, I said, "WTF"!! I hope there is not a long wait for the last episode

Bruman
June 13th, 2008, 07:21 PM
You know, I was so surprised when they actually arrived at Earth... I was expecting it further down the line. Then they were rejoicing and all happy and I thought:

"What are they going to do to frack with our minds right now..."

And then I found out!

Great ending... enough closure for the long wait, but enough of an intro to keep us excited about what's next.

What if the final cylon is actually the guy who lived in that bathtub in Razor? The original hybrid.

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Oh gods I know. I was thinking, yeah, just pack up and go back to Caprica. This place is even more depressing. But wow.....to go from one nuked planet all that way just to find another. Heartbreaking. :S:(

I know at least Caprica had more Colour to it(or atleast Happier Colours to it)... Earth had the same bland and drab colours as new Caprica and is in even worse shape!

but hey atleast there rnt any Ape men Running about on this Earth~

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:21 PM
i Hope There Is Not A Long Wait For The Last Episode

2009

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:22 PM
well i guess it's back to new caprica with the rebels cylon fleet

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I felt the same. When I saw the wasteland, I said, "WTF"! When they air the preview to the next episode, I said, "WTF"!! I hope there is not a long wait for the last episodeSCI-FI aired a preview for next year?

MrBojangles
June 13th, 2008, 07:22 PM
but hey atleast there rnt any Ape men Running about on this Earth~

I was expecting a partially destroyed/buried Statue of Liberty as well as apes with pants running around.. Kinda

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:22 PM
SCI-FI aired a preview for next year?

yes they did

Lady Snow
June 13th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Could be Baltar, D'anna knew he wasn't on Galactica
Could be someone we haven't met yet.
Could be the "real" Kara, dead in her crashed "real" Viper, grasping the homing beacon.


Or... it could be Billy.


but hey atleast there rnt any Ape men Running about on this Earth~

Yet. ;)

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:23 PM
SCI-FI aired a preview for next year?

a tiny one it showed tigh holding a gun to someone and Saul saying

"your the fifth" but with no piictures

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:24 PM
yes they did:eek: Noooo! *prepares to look out on youtube all night if she has to* :P

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:25 PM
a tiny one it showed tigh holding a gun to someone and Saul saying

"your the fifth" but with no piictures

as well as


Adama crying over what looks to be a covered up dead body

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:25 PM
a tiny one it showed tigh holding a gun to someone and Saul saying

"your the fifth" but with no piictures
:eek: :eek: :eek:

MrBojangles
June 13th, 2008, 07:25 PM
a tiny one it showed tigh holding a gun to someone and Saul saying

"your the fifth" but with no piictures

And Adama crying over what appeared to be a dead body wrapped in cloth. I guess we can all assume who that is.

Xicer
June 13th, 2008, 07:25 PM
SCI-FI aired a preview for next year?

Yeah but you don't really see much. All I remember was Adama sitting on the ground crying I think. Tigh was holding a gun and some people were looking at something that was covered up (a body?). And at the end it cuts to the BSG logo with Tigh saying in the background "Your the fifth?" or something to that extent.

EDIT: Looks like about three of you beat me to it :p

omega431
June 13th, 2008, 07:26 PM
Earth is the new Kobol? Did they already have their own Exodus?

Also based on the coming attractions for next half (season)it would seem that the 5th cylon is definitely alive and Deanna was apologizing to Col. Tigh in rapture.

Dancing on the dradis table and flinging your jacket over your ex wife's head is not very presidential.

How did they zero in on the templeish ruins, why not set down in the city (yes very NYC like), if there is info to be had it's more likely there. Was that auroras temple?

The pairing off(and lack of) at the end was interesting too, Sam shunning Tory, Cap6 stroking Tigh, Kara alone.

I don't know what a nuclear winter looks like but the planet looks ok from orbit, the light on the surface looks like the harsher light seen on other planets.

GateDragon
June 13th, 2008, 07:26 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

but the gun and words seem unrealted

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:27 PM
as well as


Adama crying over what looks to be a covered up dead bodyOh please no.....it had better not be Roslin. :S

Actually! Because it's never too early to theorize when you haven't even seen the trailer! Zak is the fifth and Tigh shoots him and that's the body Adama is crying over. That works for me. :D

fatarse
June 13th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Me tooo! :D

That last cylon isn't in the fleet according to D'Anna (pretty huge clue), so it is SO Zak. The theory lives! :D

I think the last cylon has been living on earth and caused its destruction.

MrBojangles
June 13th, 2008, 07:29 PM
I just thought of something. The temple (Aurora's) on Earth could be the NYCO. :cool:

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Oh please no.....it had better not be Roslin. :S

Actually! Because it's never too early to theorize when you haven't even seen the trailer! Zak is the fifth and Tigh shoots him and that's the body Adama is crying over. That works for me. :D

or it could be

Lee and he some how ends up kicking the bucket

but Blah stupid mid season break :mad:

Fjord
June 13th, 2008, 07:30 PM
I think the last cylon has been living on earth and caused its destruction.

I also believe the final cylon is living on Earth, although i do not believe that the final cylon caused the demise of Earth

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:32 PM
or it could be

Lee and he some how ends up kicking the bucket

but Blah stupid mid season break :mad:
Still better than Roslin.

This break is going to be agony! :(:S

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Still better than Roslin.

This break is going to be agony! :(:S

yes it is hopefully DollHouse can keep me occupied until then since Im always up for a new Joss show~ (thats assuming it comes on earlier than BSG)

fatarse
June 13th, 2008, 07:34 PM
2009

They are killing me. I might as well head back to the desert for another year to catch the last episode.

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:36 PM
yes it is hopefully Doll House can keep me occupied until then since Im always up for a new Joss show~Hate to break it to you but Dollhouse won't be airing until January either..... :S

Downloadable version of the trailer (http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/1116361.html)!

That was fast. :P

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:38 PM
Hate to break it to you but Dollhouse won't be airing until January either..... :S

Downloadable version of the trailer (http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/1116361.html)!

That was fast. :P

oh damnit I though it was coming out earlier *headdesk*


fine then since there is nothing on TV that remotley interests me any more until next year im just going to have to fil that (small) gap with more video games... assuming I can afford them~

marielabbott
June 13th, 2008, 07:40 PM
All of this has happened before but it doesn't have to happen again. :D

I loved that line! :D


Just once, I'd like to see people land on a future Earth in the middle of the (American) midwest. Or, you know, anywhere but New frakking York. Or places that look like New frakking York.

I agree. But I guess they don't call the Midwest the flyover states for no reason. :rolleyes:

What an episode! I wonder if I was even breathing during the scene where Tigh told Adama he was a Cylon, it was so intense. And Lee trying to comfort his father afterwards wrung my heart.

I really thought Tigh was going to get airlocked.

Tory, you suck, and I am so glad Anders shunned you at the end.

Anders and Starbuck--can't wait to see where that goes. She didn't put a bullet through his brain, but trusted what he said enough to check out the viper, thereby discovering the way to Earth.

Lee's little tabletop dance was rather odd. :S

Felix is back to work, bless him, I'm glad. :)

I was kind of disturbed to see Hera staring away into space as her parents rejoiced at finding Earth...I don't know, it just gave me the creeps. ;)

All through the celebration, I had a sense of dread. I mean, you know something truly awful is going to come next in this universe. Earth--destroyed. What's next? Back to the status quo of killing each other, or the birth of a new human/Cylon civilization?

the fifth man
June 13th, 2008, 07:41 PM
Amazing episode tonight. And that ending - Wow!!

This wait for the second half of the season is going to be torture though.

Xicer
June 13th, 2008, 07:46 PM
ahh nice find trek girl. let the analysis begin!

well it definitely looks like Tigh is pointing to a gun to Adama. Then it looks like someone is burning a book, judging by the hands I'd say its Roslin. Then we get Starbuck sitting by herself next to some kind of fire (it looks like she's burning a body). For a split second we see someone holding a dogtag and a ring (wedding ring maybe)? And finally of course the part with Adama looking over the body. So basically, someone very important to everyone is about the die really soon, which doesn't really tell us anything new :p

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 07:54 PM
ahh nice find trek girl. let the analysis begin!

well it definitely looks like Tigh is pointing to a gun to Adama. Then it looks like someone is burning a book, judging by the hands I'd say its Roslin. Then we get Starbuck sitting by herself next to some kind of fire (it looks like she's burning a body). For a split second we see someone holding a dogtag and a ring (wedding ring maybe)? And finally of course the part with Adama looking over the body. So basically, someone very important to everyone is about the die really soon, which doesn't really tell us anything new :pOoh, thanks for the play by play. My computer kinda freezes when I run video. :S:P

I did see at the end the "Coming Soon". What. A. Joke. :rolleyes: Are they intentionally trying to mock us?

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Ooh, thanks for the play by play. My computer kinda freezes when I run video. :S:P

I did see at the end the "Coming Soon". What. A. Joke. :rolleyes: Are they intentionally trying to mock us?

its Skiffy i doubt they are smart enough to know what mocking is~

Hohenzollern
June 13th, 2008, 08:01 PM
I would have been disappointed (severely) if there were a Statue of Liberty ruin. While the bridge and its angle are reminiscent of the Brooklyn Bridge; it seemed far too massive; in my humble opinion.

I am thinking that this is an antediluvian Earth. Working with the myths of the Vimanas and their purported weaponry in those legends.

The diagram of the temple in Adama's book somewhat echoed the popular diagrams of Atlantis as described by Plato's recounting. The center area with the circular canals around it, etc.

Some episodes have ancient Scottich <?> or Celtic music, ancient Japanese drums, and Hindi Mantras. In that vein; I wonder if this is an ancient earth?

Are there some screen grabs of each shot of "Earth" both on the ground and in orbit, from this episode? I could not make out the modern continents. I thought I saw the Sinai and Africa but was not sure. Is this an ancient earth or is it our earth at all?

Also, did Kara Thrace remember anything about her supposed trip to Earth; or was that contained in a vision, and she did not actually go? Was the pristine condition of her ship upon returning ever explained?

Mamid
June 13th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Said by me on Sl: i swear I am going to hunt down those ........ >fine gentlemen< who make BSG and make them pay for making us wait till NEXT YEAR for the rest of the season!

rarocks24
June 13th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Just once, I'd like to see people land on a future Earth in the middle of the (American) midwest. Or, you know, anywhere but New frakking York. Or places that look like New frakking York.

Until TPTB say its New York, it could be Hong Kong for all we know (it isn't though, topography is different). Could be LA, or Miami for all we know.

Lady Snow
June 13th, 2008, 08:12 PM
It's still a big city. Whatever happened to small towns? ;)

kharn the betrayer
June 13th, 2008, 08:15 PM
It's still a big city. Whatever happened to small towns? ;)

could be they where all wiped off the face of the planet when the nukes hit <sarcasm>

omega431
June 13th, 2008, 08:21 PM
ahh nice find trek girl. let the analysis begin!

well it definitely looks like Tigh is pointing to a gun to Adama. Then it looks like someone is burning a book, judging by the hands I'd say its Roslin. Then we get Starbuck sitting by herself next to some kind of fire (it looks like she's burning a body). For a split second we see someone holding a dogtag and a ring (wedding ring maybe)? And finally of course the part with Adama looking over the body. So basically, someone very important to everyone is about the die really soon, which doesn't really tell us anything new :p

Yeah Hera was freaky eyed. After the tags/ring looks like a childs hand (Hera) reaching out to something woolen, and the light on her resembles that on 'earth'

Unlike at the end of Crossroads II there is no clear shot of the planets landmass to mark it as earth that I could see.

omega431
June 13th, 2008, 08:23 PM
I am thinking that this is an antediluvian Earth. Working with the myths of the Vimanas and their purported weaponry in those legends.

Are there some screen grabs of each shot of "Earth" both on the ground and in orbit, from this episode? I could not make out the modern continents. I thought I saw the Sinai and Africa but was not sure. Is this an ancient earth or is it our earth at all?

Yeah and the flood was a flood of radiation.

dylantp20
June 13th, 2008, 08:28 PM
And Adama crying over what appeared to be a dead body wrapped in cloth. I guess we can all assume who that is.

I honestly don't think roslin is going to die....she's gone through the whole show assuming she's the dying leader but I'm thinking she's not going to be the one under that sheet......there was a different leader that brought about all the events in this episode, President Adama. Everyone is going to be going into the end of the season expecting roslin to be the one close to everyone that is going to die which is exactly why it won't be her, it'll be someone no one expects.

Darth_Bicyclist
June 13th, 2008, 08:52 PM
It's still a big city. Whatever happened to small towns? ;)

We didn't need the Cylons or a nuclear war to get rid of them. Wal:(Mart already took care of that for us.

Arative
June 13th, 2008, 09:13 PM
Well EJO deserves an emmy for his performance tonight. I mean wow he blew me away.

I'm still processing it but I thought this was a great episode.

This episode confirmed that I don't like Tory at all. Someone needs to airlock her. Anders, Saul and Tyrol all in the air lock was a great scene. I loved Saul standing at attention the whole time, trying to maintain his humanity until the end.

Why was no one wondering about Tyrol's kid. He's half cylon too, its like he doesn't matter as much as Hera.

I can't wait to see what happens from here. Jubilation turned to bitter ashes with the remains of Earth. The last 10 minutes minus the last minute on earth almost felt like a series ender to me.

younger
June 13th, 2008, 09:14 PM
...will colonial and cylon rebuild the earth ..with greater advanced?

nckzvnbr
June 13th, 2008, 09:14 PM
I honestly don't think roslin is going to die....she's gone through the whole show assuming she's the dying leader but I'm thinking she's not going to be the one under that sheet......there was a different leader that brought about all the events in this episode, President Adama. Everyone is going to be going into the end of the season expecting roslin to be the one close to everyone that is going to die which is exactly why it won't be her, it'll be someone no one expects.

Bah, Roslin dies. According to the Patriot Resource, Mary said that after the midseason break she only had a few episodes left. Why is it so hard for people to accept that Roslin probably is the dying leader? I am frankly amazed at how many people want to see her fall flat on her face.

psumetguy2008
June 13th, 2008, 09:21 PM
Ok, so I've tried to ask this on the scifi forums since people are posting screenshots over there now, but I've tried to register TWO addresses already and I can't login with either after confirmation....really gets my gun


Anywho, does anyone have a screenshot of the planet as the sun is peeking over it? I think I saw something that may prove that this is NOT Earth...and shame on RDM for tricking us AGAIN if so...

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 09:22 PM
Well EJO deserves an emmy for his performance tonight. I mean wow he blew me away.

I'm still processing it but I thought this was a great episode.

This episode confirmed that I don't like Tory at all. Someone needs to airlock her. Anders, Saul and Tyrol all in the air lock was a great scene. I loved Saul standing at attention the whole time, trying to maintain his humanity until the end.

Why was no one wondering about Tyrol's kid. He's half cylon too, its like he doesn't matter as much as Hera.

I can't wait to see what happens from here. Jubilation turned to bitter ashes with the remains of Earth. The last 10 minutes minus the last minute on earth almost felt like a series ender to me.His performance, that scene with Lee was absolutely amazing. The two of them there together was the most father-son we've seen from the whole series and it was a role-reversal! That scene should be making Emmy consideration reels. The reaction to the revelation was absolutely perfect, wouldn't have expected anything less from Adama, given that the "love story" between him and Tigh has been so key throughout the series. But wow. It was even more than I expected, such a heartbreaking moment. Poor guy needs some quiet time with Roslin now. :P

Arative
June 13th, 2008, 09:23 PM
I just had another thought. What if the planet they landed on isn't Earth. I mean someone had to return Starbuck. The people of Earth led them to a false planet on purpose. Maybe a test to see if they finally trust each other. I mean the Earth that was shown in season 3 wasn't a cloud filled nuclear waste.

puddlejumper747
June 13th, 2008, 09:23 PM
I am thinking that this is an antediluvian Earth.
Yeah and the flood was a flood of radiation.
I don't understand what either of you is suggesting. :p

Hohenzollern: ..."antediluvian" means BEFORE the flood, so that it hasn't happened yet.
omega431: The planet was definitely nuked... seems like it's set long after the flood, no?


Unlike at the end of Crossroads II there is no clear shot of the planets landmass to mark it as earth that I could see.
But the constellations matched up, right? So it had to be Earth.

But yeah, I could tell something wasn't quite right when the ships beginning to enter the atmosphere: we saw white clouds, blue ocean... and black continents. Yikes. :S

Arative
June 13th, 2008, 09:24 PM
His performance, that scene with Lee was absolutely amazing. The two of them there together was the most father-son we've seen from the whole series and it was a role-reversal! That scene should be making Emmy consideration reels. The reaction to the revelation was absolutely perfect, wouldn't have expected anything less from Adama, given that the "love story" between him and Tigh has been so key throughout the series. But wow. It was even more than I expected, such a heartbreaking moment. Poor guy needs some quiet time with Roslin now. :P

Yeah, EJO actually had saliva running out of his mouth onto Jamie's hand. Now that is dedication to the scene.

puddlejumper747
June 13th, 2008, 09:27 PM
I just had another thought. What if the planet they landed on isn't Earth. I mean someone had to return Starbuck. The people of Earth led them to a false planet on purpose. Maybe a test to see if they finally trust each other. I mean the Earth that was shown in season 3 wasn't a cloud filled nuclear waste.
Alright, but again... what about the constellations?

And then I'm remembering that quote from Olmos...
"It's not a happy ending, we end up with almost nothing."
...so this would sure seem to fit into that. *shrugs*

Trek_Girl42
June 13th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Yeah, EJO actually had saliva running out of his mouth onto Jamie's hand. Now that is dedication to the scene.That's just amazing. To be so into the scene as to get to that point, to make it feel that real without any self-consciousness. What an actor.
(Jamie as well was fantastic)

Between this week and last week, he and MM should have secured their Emmy noms. :(

I think I just fell in love with this show again, for the ten thousandth time.

mrtvr4
June 13th, 2008, 09:37 PM
Until TPTB say its New York, it could be Hong Kong for all we know (it isn't though, topography is different). Could be LA, or Miami for all we know.

Its Sydney

Zatnikitelman
June 13th, 2008, 09:40 PM
Great episode, bit of a letdown at the end. But my dad did keep telling me that if Earth didn't have an organized Star Trek level technology, then it could be of no help. I'm mixed on this. There might not be much military hope, but it is solid ground, not as harsh as NC and Algae planet right?

mrtvr4
June 13th, 2008, 09:41 PM
The ground was radioactive, they scanned it...

ie not inhabitable!

chris777
June 13th, 2008, 09:49 PM
I had to catch the second showing before chiming in, and while I read several of the earlier post before, I see several instances that others have apparently missed.

One if they have reached "earth" it is likely not the final one, probably just another marker. there are several things that have not occurred that have been foreshadowed, rosylins death for instance which was again brought fourth to our attention in recent episodes. I don't thing she is supposed to even live to see it or at the very least set foot on it if memory serves.
The first hybrids warning about starbuck leading them all to their "end" is also obviously at play here as well.
Several dangling plot lines and some interesting new ones, Tighs, and sixes fully "cylon" child which oddly no one seems to care about when the Cylons themselves had believed impossible along with their own experiments and machinations at cylon human hybrids when mysteriouslly one is conceived with no intention (apparently) I would almost suggest that the child could be the final of the 5 but that seems too easy , I also have come to realize that the writers and Ron moore apparently have about as heavily conceived notion of how the overall arc of the series should be, and end, as George Lucas obviously did of the prequel trilogy, that precisely is very open ended.
I remember starting a thread a while back that I presume no one picked up on
specifically poking at the so called cylon "plan" that was an in the opening for the first three seasons, which at least in the series seems to have been lost, It may be revealed in the back half of the season, but given how its in the closing segment I doubt it will be exploited as they may have originally intended it, which is fine, I understand how these things can take on a life of their own especially in collaborative efforts such as these, but given it took 3 seasons for them to think gee maybe since we are doing so little with this "plan" motif it might be a good idea to not open every single episode reminding us of it. But hey maybe its the plan of the first hybrid or the fifth cylon.

My biggest gripe I guess is cramming all the really interesting episodes here at the end, like when I was on vacation and they aired Sine Qua Non and noticing how much they actualy did in that one episode, it was like watching a different season, then at the end of the hub it was back to the status quo.
these were very interesting threads that could have been explored, but due to the winding down of the series they just poof them away.
Anyway I am sure some of these things will be tied up in the end, or the possible movies. Just thought I would put at least these points out, their are obviously several others, but those struck me as interesting.

chris777
June 13th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Alright, but again... what about the constellations?


I saw that too but It is possibly the constellations based on starbucks vipers nav, not necessarily based on the ones from way back when, but then again I have always wondered what happened to that bit about Lee recognizing them, but yet they couldn't at least partly figure it out from that?

Fjord
June 13th, 2008, 10:04 PM
Did anyone remember seeing the moon in the visuals of Earth? Doesn't anyone think its odd that the Colonials did not note the existence of any moons nor any of the planets of the sol system?

i think the jist of my point is that i believe the world they have found is a colony of the 13th tribe...maybe the constellations fit because that was where the 13th tribe first settled before moving on to the Earth that we are familiar with.

puddlejumper747
June 13th, 2008, 10:05 PM
The ground was radioactive, they scanned it...

ie not inhabitable!
Yeah, I wondered about that too...

We know they have the capabilities to scan the planet to determine atmosphere content, water, etc... so I thought they might have noticed radiation before landing? Or it's just very weak? But there have to be plants SOMEWHERE, right... otherwise how could the air have enough oxygen to support them? :confused:

chris777
June 13th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Did anyone remember seeing the moon in the visuals of Earth? Doesn't anyone think its odd that the Colonials did not note the existence of any moons nor any of the planets of the sol system?

i think the jist of my point is that i believe the world they have found is a colony of the 13th tribe...maybe the constellations fit because that was where the 13th tribe first settled before moving on to the Earth that we are familiar with.

notice how they kept the surface details from space in shadow

psumetguy2008
June 13th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Fjord, I know right?

That's part of my argument....though, since I can't get a screenshot of what I think I saw, I'll just say it.

Ok, so when the sun was rising over the planet from the view from space, if one looks at the surface of the planet on the DARK side of the circle of illumination, there is, at least I'm fairly sure on this....a small, circular reflection of a star.

I believe firmly that that reflection was Beta Centauri...and that the sun rising over the planet is Alpha Centauri.

The constellations would NOT be different over there by any significant amount versus here.

Fjord
June 13th, 2008, 10:12 PM
Fjord, I know right?

That's part of my argument....though, since I can't get a screenshot of what I think I saw, I'll just say it.

Ok, so when the sun was rising over the planet from the view from space, if one looks at the surface of the planet on the DARK side of the circle of illumination, there is, at least I'm fairly sure on this....a small, circular reflection of a star.

I believe firmly that that reflection was Beta Centauri...and that the sun rising over the planet is Alpha Centauri.

The constellations would NOT be different over there by any significant amount versus here.

Wow i never thought of that.....Alpha and Beta Centauri are only 6 light years from Earth....in space terms...thats virtually nothing...The constellations would very similiar indeed.

I must rewatch that episode!

AncientsRGods
June 13th, 2008, 10:27 PM
Wow i never thought of that.....Alpha and Beta Centauri are only 6 light years from Earth....in space terms...thats virtually nothing...The constellations would very similiar indeed.

I must rewatch that episode!

There are no Earth like planets (we think) within 20 Light-years of Earth,
anyway was that the ruins of a ship at the end? Where the transponder came from?

Anyone think that a long time ago the Cylons wiped out Earth, became skinjobs, assumed human identity, over time became "fully" human, and then those "humans" created the Cylons now.

and before that happened on Earth it happened on Kobalt.

Or the colonials where the survivors of what happened on Earth and settled on the 12 colonies.

psumetguy2008
June 13th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Actually we don't have the ability to detect them even if Alpha Centauri might have one.

DetriusXii
June 13th, 2008, 10:47 PM
I felt something was wrong when they were allowed to descend. If earth was a populated planet with advanced technology, the fleet would be destroyed for trying to enter another government's borders without permission from that government.

Detox
June 13th, 2008, 10:48 PM
Whoa. During that scene when all the shuttles and raptors were headed to earth. I half expected F-302s and drones to suddenly appear and start shooting.

Fjord
June 13th, 2008, 10:55 PM
Actually we don't have the ability to detect them even if Alpha Centauri might have one.

We do have the ability to detect terrestial planets....just not ones the same size as Earth...so far we have found terrestrial planets like Gilese 581 c, but that planet is somewhere between 2-5 times larger than Earth

psumetguy2008
June 13th, 2008, 11:10 PM
Still, that's not earth-like. 5x earth's size would have some pretty crippling gravity.

Plus, it's science fiction. Maybe in the BSG realm, Alpha Centauri has a planet, and the 13th tribe went to war and moved to Earth.

Gaeth
June 13th, 2008, 11:34 PM
Still, that's not earth-like. 5x earth's size would have some pretty crippling gravity.

Plus, it's science fiction. Maybe in the BSG realm, Alpha Centauri has a planet, and the 13th tribe went to war and moved to Earth.

Perhaps they terraformed it.

huntress
June 14th, 2008, 12:04 AM
:scratches Head: I am dumbfounded and speechless. No faith in humanity Mr. Moore, eh? So we nuked ourselves to Kingdom Come and now what...Really honestly. NOW WHAT????

Stormtrooper
June 14th, 2008, 12:05 AM
Dang, Galactica meets Terminator. Excellent episode! :)

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 12:21 AM
that almost looked like the brooklyn bridge in New York at the end.

i had to go out for beer after seeing that we frakin destroyed ourselves and now apparently i am 1400 posts behind (uncatchupable).... my gods yes that was most def the b-lyn bridge and downtown nyc that we saw!! :( i dont know what to do or how to move on from here... i am in utter shock and awe....

AeronPrometheus
June 14th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Could be the "real" Kara, dead in her crashed "real" Viper, grasping the homing beacon.


You speak LIIIEEEEESSS! :samanime15:


I would have been disappointed (severely) if there were a Statue of Liberty ruin. While the bridge and its angle are reminiscent of the Brooklyn Bridge; it seemed far too massive; in my humble opinion.

I am thinking that this is an antediluvian Earth. Working with the myths of the Vimanas and their purported weaponry in those legends.

The diagram of the temple in Adama's book somewhat echoed the popular diagrams of Atlantis as described by Plato's recounting. The center area with the circular canals around it, etc.

Yes, yes and yes. They colonials logically set down near an urban area. But if you go by the time line of the destruction of Atlantis and her sister cities then the survivors, the slaves of the Atlantians, the Adamic humans, are living in caves/mountains/forests/etc. And they're about as advanced as wearing simple garbs and carrying clubs. And they're spread in small pockets across the planet, but...

For everyone who said there were no obvious continental giveaways that this was Earth and that it may be due to being an ancient Earth with different land masses remember the end of Crossroads where we clearly saw Florida.


Whoa. During that scene when all the shuttles and raptors were headed to earth. I half expected F-302s and drones to suddenly appear and start shooting.

Hammond: Dammit, O'Neill could you -wait- until I give the order to fire next time?

O'Neill: Sorry sir, they looked a little menacing.

The thought was running through my mind too, if there was a civilization down there it would have looked like a full blown invasion.

Agent_Dark
June 14th, 2008, 12:39 AM
oh snapples the planet was nuked

reminds me of the first 2 fallout games which where set in a post nuclear apocalyptic setting(with a 50's twist) ~

lol, that's what entered my mind too. Especially with the Galactica having all that 'old' technology.

pretty awesome ep.

AeronPrometheus
June 14th, 2008, 12:53 AM
Anywho, does anyone have a screenshot of the planet as the sun is peeking over it? I think I saw something that may prove that this is NOT Earth...and shame on RDM for tricking us AGAIN if so...


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6627/vlcsnap261358gq9.png

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/650/vlcsnap262725eu4.png

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8924/vlcsnap262835kz1.png

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6962/vlcsnap262898yc7.png

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6195/vlcsnap263015uo4.png


And for anyone wanting to analyze the ground view:


http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5366/vlcsnap263541gn5.png

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8880/vlcsnap263737sz6.png

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1896/vlcsnap263856pb3.png
Dee is hot looking in a trench coat. Had to say...

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/719/vlcsnap263960fb3.png

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4408/vlcsnap264127fo2.png

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1412/vlcsnap264208gn8.png

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7241/vlcsnap264306jq1.png

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6182/vlcsnap264399sc0.png

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4279/vlcsnap264486bv9.png


Welcome. ^_^

daniel9
June 14th, 2008, 01:02 AM
lol with all the time rosslin and baltar spend on that basestar. why dont either of em care enough to ask what the cylon homeworld looks like?

AeronPrometheus
June 14th, 2008, 01:09 AM
Also, am I the only one who actually feels warm fuzzies that Space Park made it all the way to Earth(?)?

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 01:14 AM
for any1 that knows nyc... or even the move "conspiracy theory"... do u think in the foreground that you can semi-make out those 3 smokestacks that sit in front of the city (when coming in from long island)? just what i can kinda-sorta see.... my gods 2009 is wayyyy 2 far away!

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 01:16 AM
also... who els said "O, FRAK" when the showed the scene with adama picking up the radioactive soil of the the future nyc.... what did we dooo to ourselves?! and how lateeee are weee?!

Trek_Girl42
June 14th, 2008, 01:22 AM
also... who els said "O, FRAK" when the showed the scene with adama picking up the radioactive soil of the the future nyc.... what did we dooo to ourselves?! and how lateeee are weee?!Uh huh.....well, I was thinking Adama might have been better off still grieving on Galactica. :(

How much more devastating can you get?

Actually not so sure I want to know the answer to that one..... :S

AeronPrometheus
June 14th, 2008, 01:51 AM
Uh huh.....well, I was thinking Adama might have been better off still grieving on Galactica. :(

How much more devastating can you get?

Actually not so sure I want to know the answer to that one..... :S

It didn't take him long to get that "I want to punch somebody" look on his face again did it?

Admiral Mappalazarou
June 14th, 2008, 02:03 AM
Sooo now alls that left to do is find out what was giving off the signal, heh? Oh yeah, and welcome to Earth;

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n185/mappalazarou/Mappalazarou%202/vlcsnap-59853.png

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 02:43 AM
my review:

oh, frak :eek: I can't wait

Joben
June 14th, 2008, 02:44 AM
Great episode, I can't believe how much was in it. After slowpoking it for the first nine episodes in the season they revealed the final five with a huge amount of time to spare! I had to check the time twice to be sure it wasn't about to end.

Those scenes with Apollo and the Admiral were amazing.

Seeing most of the questions answered as well as finding Earth and the aftermath (we barely saw that after 7 seasons of Voyager!) in only one episode was unbelievable and gave great closure.

I do wish however that the series had ended there, at the scene when they were about to land on Earth. Almost everything had been answered and the celebration scenes were a great sequence, it would have been a really awesome way for the series to go out. With ten episodes to go, it's hard to know where they're going to go from here but more importantly if it's possible for them to match that episode in the finale.

Speaking of this, was this episode written to give closure to the series in case the writers strike led to the rest of the series being canceled? Sorry if this has already been asked.

The music was also excellent, I loved it when the baseship was getting out the nukes.

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 02:45 AM
Bear is genius

*"Finis itineris, - "Journey’s end,
Viatores fatigati, - Weary travellers,
Venientes ad litus longe distantem, - Approach a distant shore,
Collinae virentes, - Verdant peaks,
Superstant nebulam tristem, - Pierce the melancholy haze,
Dies surgit, - The sky breaks,
Unda matutina, - Like a wave,
Omnes passi sumus multa, - We have all suffered,
Omnes superviximus, - We have all survived,
Veniums Terram, - We have arrived at Earth,
Fratres sororesque, - Brothers and sisters,
Inimici et amici, - Enemies and friends,
Osculamini, - Embrace,
Domum venimus, - For we have come home,
Iam plango, - Yet I weep,
Iam plango, - Yet I weep,
Non mortuos, - Not for the fallen,
Sed implacatos, - But for the unforgiven,
Collinae virentes nos excipient, - Green hills await,
Vento sequente, - With wind at our backs,
Caeli aperient, - The heavens part,
Approquinquantibus." - As we approach."*

GateDragon
June 14th, 2008, 03:09 AM
Said by me on Sl: i swear I am going to hunt down those ........ >fine gentlemen< who make BSG and make them pay for making us wait till NEXT YEAR for the rest of the season!

it's scifi not ron moore

Lightbane
June 14th, 2008, 03:16 AM
AHHHHHH! I can't f'ing belive we have to wait until next year!!! Curse you damn pushy writers and your damn strike!

That was such a gooood episode, that is certainly NYC even just with that fragment of bridge you can just form up the image of the Brooklyn bridge and place it there it matches pretty well.

And if the planet had been nuked that would pretty much how it would look like after so long, even with a nuclear explosion the city wouldn't have decayed that badly if it had only recently happened.

The radiation would ionise the atmosphere producing more ozone which in turn creates thicker clouds and more of them which in turn would lower the planetary temperature. Giving the planet that dreary European winter colouring, and beside the entire planet can't be like that. There aren't enough nukes in the world to bomb every corner of it and besides would want to bomb the Africans or South Americans? They don't have much anyway.

Lightbane
June 14th, 2008, 03:18 AM
it's scifi not ron moore

They are only part of the problem the writers are only just getting back to work now :mckay: :mad:

I heard that BSG's production season starts only next month, so I think that Novemeber would be the earliest possible time that it could come on.

turtlesstartedit
June 14th, 2008, 03:24 AM
Yeah, I wondered about that too...

But there have to be plants SOMEWHERE, right... otherwise how could the air have enough oxygen to support them? :confused:

Actually, all the free oxygen in our atmosphere is the result of current and ancient photosynthesis. If photosynthesis were to stop suddenly, suffocation would not be a concern (starvation would though).

Dusk
June 14th, 2008, 04:37 AM
THAT was AMAZING!

More happened in this episode than every season four episode put together! And then some! I'm not going to blabber, but the acting was sharp enough to slice sunbeams, the visuals were eye-wateringly beautiful, and Bear's music: pure harmonic bliss.

What happens next? Isn't it torture having to wait so long to find out?! The best bit is, that aside from that one poor mechanic who got flushed out of an airlock, nobody died! Woo-hoo!

Though after the snippets from interviews I've heard about the second-half of the season, that joy is going to get kicked to high hell before it's all over.

BSG... what a show!

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 04:47 AM
THAT was AMAZING!

More happened in this episode than every season four episode put together! And then some! I'm not going to blabber, but the acting was sharp enough to slice sunbeams, the visuals were eye-wateringly beautiful, and Bear's music: pure harmonic bliss.

What happens next? Isn't it torture having to wait so long to find out?! The best bit is, that aside from that one poor mechanic who got flushed out of an airlock, nobody died! Woo-hoo!

Though after the snippets from interviews I've heard about the second-half of the season, that joy is going to get kicked to high hell before it's all over.

BSG... what a show!
and what have you heard?

gravityStar
June 14th, 2008, 04:51 AM
I've been asking myself; what is that building they are standing in at the end. Seriously, I've been skimming streetview pictures in google maps trying to find a building that matches architecturally. Big, stone base, almost gothic look to the windows, with steel supports creating a low dome at one end of the building.

I say that this is supposed to be a church or temple, but...

Does anybody know if there is a building in Real Life that matches this?

Pic
June 14th, 2008, 04:54 AM
Yea! Adama is home, his son is happy!
No! D'Anna is screwing with them. Frakkin' ultimatums.
Tory sucks
Saul/Adama. then Adama/Son - Scenes made of awesomeness.
President Adama steps up.
The cool 3 of the 4 fix Starbuck's broken viper.
Just before President Adama airlocks them.
Let's make a deal - shiny viper points to earth - let's all go!
Many happy moments - Felix is happy, fleet is happy, Saul is drinking, Tyrol sits with Nicki, Sam looks at Kara hopefully, Adama/Roslin are happy - Lee gets undressed (yummy)
Earth is dead.

I'm not yet coherent enough for more than that.

Time to run away from spoilers now since the wait will be so long. Anyone up for a re-watch of the first half of s4 next week?

Dusk
June 14th, 2008, 05:03 AM
and what have you heard?

Well, for instance (and this is a very light type of spoiler, not specific at all...)

Edward James Olmos, who plays Adm. William Adama in the series, told British magazine SciFiNow that audiences will be shocked with the way the series ends when it hits television screens next year. "It's not a happy ending," Olmos said. "We end up with almost nothing."

Sounds wonderful.

GateDragon
June 14th, 2008, 05:35 AM
this is so heartbreaking .........i woke up this morning and my first thought i last nights ep

LivingAsgard
June 14th, 2008, 05:58 AM
Maybe this episode was based on Experiment in Terra (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Experiment_in_Terra) from the original series? I hope so. :(

Adar0
June 14th, 2008, 06:20 AM
Has anyone had this idea?

That it might not be Earth? think of it this way, as the ships went down the continents are obscured and show no real shape to landmass thus we cant identify Earth from that. We know for instance that the Final five will lead Humanity to Earth, in this episode Kara Thrace lead man kind to the apocalypse. That is what Hybrids have said to her, "you will lead man kind to the apocalypse" well she has lead them to the site of one, if that's what they meant. I don't think its Earth at all i think its another colony that the 13th tribe settled on until something awful happened, they then travelled to Earth after that. The 13th also built a temple on the Algea planet and RDM indicated that they would have built a city around the temple but couldn't due to budgeting. The planet they are on could just be another colony, but a stepping stone colony to Earth. Even if you look at the old Series the colonials find another colony before they reach Earth and they take it for Earth until they come to their senses.

Other things like about Kara and her involvement in leading humanity to Earth as well as other factors like Laura Roslin isn't dead yet "They will be lead by a dying leader who will not live to see the promised land" other things such as what the Hybrid said in Razor, "they will all be carried to Earth on the wings of a Angle" . I see nothing resembling an angle that carried them to Earth, or even something in the name of a ship that could symbolise a tie to an angle (eg Pegasus, a mythical winged horse). My theory any ways :P

Admiral Mappalazarou
June 14th, 2008, 06:41 AM
I think the whole idea of it not being Earth makes the entire second half of the episode pointless....which is why I think it is Earth, but we just haven't seen it fully yet, just some ruins. The fleet has been led there by some higher force, and we have yet to find out why this nuclear wasteland is so important...

huntress
June 14th, 2008, 06:52 AM
Uh huh.....well, I was thinking Adama might have been better off still grieving on Galactica. :(

How much more devastating can you get?

Actually not so sure I want to know the answer to that one..... :S

Ditto. I really don't want to know. I mean - come one lets face it, those poor people really need a break because there is only so much a human being can bear before he or she breaks

1. The lost billions of people and their homes
2. they are down to a little under 40.000 people of the whole human population
3. they are stuck in overcrowded, stinky spaceships and the only thing that kept them going was the hope of reaching a new home, a home called Earth - the fabled 13th colony and what do they get?

A nuclear winterlandscape. highly radioactive with no life at all - a completely dead world. The 13th colony wiped itself out.

If I were one of the colonists I would be at the end of my tether. It was the only thing that kept them all going and that hope, that dream has turned not only to ashes but to a nightmare.

Combined with this
Edward James Olmos, who plays Adm. William Adama in the series, told British magazine SciFiNow that audiences will be shocked with the way the series ends when it hits television screens next year. "It's not a happy ending," Olmos said. "We end up with almost nothing."

all I can say is "Oh "joy" " :(

xSFx
June 14th, 2008, 06:58 AM
We know for instance that the Final five will lead Humanity to Earth, in this episode Kara Thrace lead man kind to the apocalypse. That is what Hybrids have said to her, "you will lead man kind to the apocalypse" well she has lead them to the site of one, if that's what they meant.It can't be their destination.
Perhaps "Earth" stands for something else, like salvation, rather than just the name of a planet.

The final five will lead humanity to Earth. There were only four here.
Roslin is supposed to die before they reach Earth. She is still alive.
Kara Thrace will lead them to the apocalypse. She did.
Possible scenario:
I believe there were survivors of the Nucular War, who fled to a "new Earth", and they left some clues as to where they were going, but the clues can only be decyphered with the help of the 5'th.


Hohenzollern: ..."antediluvian" means BEFORE the flood, so that it hasn't happened yet.
omega431: The planet was definitely nuked... seems like it's set long after the flood, no?What flood? The one that happened before or after Hephaestus gave the fire to the humans?


I felt something was wrong when they were allowed to descend. If earth was a populated planet with advanced technology, the fleet would be destroyed for trying to enter another government's borders without permission from that government.

Whoa. During that scene when all the shuttles and raptors were headed to earth. I half expected F-302s and drones to suddenly appear and start shooting.I was expecting Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum myself.


for any1 that knows nyc... or even the move "conspiracy theory"... do u think in the foreground that you can semi-make out those 3 smokestacks that sit in front of the city Earth was an inside job ! =)

xSFx
June 14th, 2008, 07:04 AM
Anywho, does anyone have a screenshot of the planet as the sun is peeking over it? I think I saw something that may prove that this is NOT Earth...and shame on RDM for tricking us AGAIN if so...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap01.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap02.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap03.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap05.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap06.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap07.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0010.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0011.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0012.jpg

xSFx
June 14th, 2008, 07:04 AM
And now, for pics of sad humans/sylons:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap000010.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap000011.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap000012.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0000.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0001.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0002.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0003.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0005.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0006.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0007.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0008.jpg


And now, pics of the nucular waste:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0010.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0011.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0012.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/SFdixit/Screenshots/bscap0014.jpg


I love how Roslin keeps her composure at all times. She's not dead yet, so she still has hope.

Lady Snow
June 14th, 2008, 07:04 AM
I was expecting Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum myself.

Jeff Goldblum! BRILLIANT! :lol:

Lady Snow
June 14th, 2008, 07:28 AM
This is rather suggestively familiar, though I'm pretty sure a close analysis of the shape will prove that it is not what it resembles at first glance:


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/osc630/caps/bscap0014.jpg

Did anyone else get this?

I'm still trying to work out my real reactions and get them in a form of English that won't be corrected later on. :)

xSFx
June 14th, 2008, 07:37 AM
What is that thing?

GateDragon
June 14th, 2008, 07:45 AM
rubble

mizzoueng
June 14th, 2008, 07:52 AM
All in all a very good episode. I did not like how easily Tori turned on humanity though. She just jumped ship and was going to stand idelly by as Deanna was going to destroy the rest of humanity in one fail swoop.

Is any one else just wondering what is so special about the final 4? The fifth appears to be the puppet master, signaling the other 4, saving Kara, making the new Viper, making the single nav in her Viper to find Earth.

Saif Blade
June 14th, 2008, 07:52 AM
This is rather suggestively familiar, though I'm pretty sure a close analysis of the shape will prove that it is not what it resembles at first glance:


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/osc630/caps/bscap0014.jpg

Did anyone else get this?

I'm still trying to work out my real reactions and get them in a form of English that won't be corrected later on. :)

A raptor?

mizzoueng
June 14th, 2008, 08:04 AM
This is rather suggestively familiar, though I'm pretty sure a close analysis of the shape will prove that it is not what it resembles at first glance:


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/osc630/caps/bscap0014.jpg

Did anyone else get this?

I'm still trying to work out my real reactions and get them in a form of English that won't be corrected later on. :)

Not sure what you see there. I guess based on the shaes, it could be a: tombstone with a cross on it, a male __nis, or maybe just some rubble

oh, and if anyone has a screen cap of the book that Lee and Kara were looking at, you will see a very close resemblence of the center dome of the depiction of Earth in it and the demolished dome that is found.

Jumper_One
June 14th, 2008, 08:05 AM
WOW!!! amazing ep, incredible mid-season finale! they finally find Earth and it's a nuclear wasteland, poor guys. and now we have to wait until 2009? :mad: I wonder how the Cylons will react. also what about the final Cylon? hm maybe this isn't Earth because the fifth Cylon will lead them there. anyway great ep!

rarocks24
June 14th, 2008, 08:13 AM
All in all a very good episode. I did not like how easily Tori turned on humanity though. She just jumped ship and was going to stand idelly by as Deanna was going to destroy the rest of humanity in one fail swoop.

Is any one else just wondering what is so special about the final 4? The fifth appears to be the puppet master, signaling the other 4, saving Kara, making the new Viper, making the single nav in her Viper to find Earth.

I think there are survivors from this nuclear holocaust (there would always be survivors, in mostly rural areas) that the Colonials will find sometime toward the end of the series, but that it will be not even 1% of our population. I think the Colonials will find out that the Final Five were Earth's version of their Significant Seven, and left for the colonies to ensure this doesn't happen again. But there's only 5 of them, and need 7 others to help preach some sort of message. But the 7 are rebellious and do it anyway, and make the mistake that the Five did.

Wouldn't it just be grand if what remains of the 13th tribe went looking for it's 12 brothers at the same time what remains of the 12 tribes went looking for it's 13th brother? And what if the final cylon is with them, guiding them?

Mamid
June 14th, 2008, 08:14 AM
it's scifi not ron moore

Good. so I have the appropriate targets....

Next year.

BAH!!!

SGFerrit
June 14th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Fantastic episode, 10/10. If they had been unable to finish the season order and this had ended up being the finale, I would have been content. Thankfully we have even more to come!:)

I think there is more than meets the eye, I believe there will still be humans left somewhere, whether they colonised the moon, Mars or Titan, or even if there are still pockets of humans left on Earth. Keep in mind we only saw the ruins of one nuked city. There are so many cities the world over that could still be standing and inhabited, I don't think the fleet can scan planet surfaces from space and they have to rely literally on what they can see from their Raptors. Earth is a big bloody planet lol. They can't see it all straight away.

Either way, I think Earth will be the new Kobol. A new civilisation will be set up here eventually, only for it to eventually splinter hundreds or thousands of years down the road, like what happened 'originally'.

P.S: Keep in mind everyone, we moan now that the new episodes are far away, but when they do come we will be all the more greatful for them!

Can't wait to see what happens! I thank god Atlantis starts in a couple of weeks, because I need a fix of my favourite shows!

ssfblue
June 14th, 2008, 08:22 AM
Oh man, once I saw how desolate the planet was after they landed, I honestly wanted to commit suicide myself. Well of course not really but I would have if I were in their shoes. I mean, when they found Earth while still in orbit, that music was SOOO HAPPY then BAM! I mean, what a fracking slap in the face and kick in the nuts the ending of that episode was.

I mean, I half expected something to be wrong since it was not the final episode; however, I just got so caught up in their joy.

I love this show.

"Oh sirrah, how deliciously absurd!" - Hedonism Bot

Xicer
June 14th, 2008, 08:27 AM
This is rather suggestively familiar, though I'm pretty sure a close analysis of the shape will prove that it is not what it resembles at first glance:


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/osc630/caps/bscap0014.jpg

Did anyone else get this?

I'm still trying to work out my real reactions and get them in a form of English that won't be corrected later on. :)

It looks sorta like a Viper but I think your just looking too hard.

Hypochondriac
June 14th, 2008, 08:28 AM
I honestly thought the fleet would be attacked after it made the jump to "Earth" A bunch of unknown ships suddenly appearing above your planet, looks mighty threatening.

I really hate Tori, she's such a *****. The president asks her to please convince Diana not to kill the humans and she says "I done taking orders from you" What the hell?

Really liked Tigh in this episode, but they did have plot induced stupidity. Tigh and and the other 3 could have told Diana to back down and let the humans go. Or they will never come over. Instead of having the stupid threat of killing them.

Also first thing they should have done after diana took hostages is to have the rest of the fleet to jump to the emergency coordinates.

Adrius
June 14th, 2008, 08:35 AM
There aren't enough nukes in the world to bomb every corner of it

Yes there are.

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 08:37 AM
the only thing that bothers me, is that the dieing leader is Not supposed to SET FOOT on the planet earth and here we see all candidates for that role on the so called planet "earth". maybe this isnt earth! yeah to me it looks like a ruined nyc, but then again, in the the season 3 finale, rdm made the earth as clear as can be... we see the outline of north america and he made florida very obvious. why all the clouds to cover it up? it looks to be like a permanent cloud cover, and it wasnt so in that episode.
-also, how long would the soil be radioactive after a nuclear blast? the city looks like its been abandoned way longer than 50+ years and i mean hiroshima and nagasaki have ppl living in them again (i dont know if those were just different types of bombs.) but with that it would make me think that the devastation was more recent. plus shouldnt there be some ppl left living in like fiji er something?

-also, if this is earth and it is abandoned... who made and gave kara her shiny new viper?

nckzvnbr
June 14th, 2008, 08:39 AM
The planet was a terraformed Mars. (sarcasm added) All in all, if it is Earth so be it. I think a destroyed Earth will make for a more interesting plot pointthan a technologically marvelous Earth.

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 08:40 AM
-also does any1 have screenshot from when they pan around the ruins they are standing in... to me some of the stones looked like they had christian crosses on them, suggesting that they are in a church of somekind...

nckzvnbr
June 14th, 2008, 08:40 AM
the only thing that bothers me, is that the dieing leader is Not supposed to SET FOOT on the planet earth and here we see all candidates for that role on the so called planet "earth". maybe this isnt earth! yeah to me it looks like a ruined nyc, but then again, in the the season 3 finale, rdm made the earth as clear as can be... we see the outline of north america and he made florida very obvious. why all the clouds to cover it up? it looks to be like a permanent cloud cover, and it wasnt so in that episode.
-also, how long would the soil be radioactive after a nuclear blast? the city looks like its been abandoned way longer than 50+ years and i mean hiroshima and nagasaki have ppl living in them again (i dont know if those were just different types of bombs.) but with that it would make me think that the devastation was more recent. plus shouldnt there be some ppl left living in like fiji er something?

-also, if this is earth and it is abandoned... who made and gave kara her shiny new viper?

I thought the prophecy said specifically that the dying leader would not set foot in the promised land. Who is to say that Earth is the promised land.

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 08:41 AM
-haha that 1 ship that they launched on the initial survey really made me think it was the prometheus...

Hypochondriac
June 14th, 2008, 08:41 AM
A destroyed earth is stupid. It's basically New Caprica again. They found a planet they believe they will be safe on but need to rebuild/add infrastructure to live on it.

ssfblue
June 14th, 2008, 08:41 AM
yeah... the writers making us THINK it's Earth might be another one of their clever ploys to trick us.

GateDragon
June 14th, 2008, 08:42 AM
I thought the prophecy said specifically that the dying leader would not set foot in the promised land. Who is to say that Earth is the promised land.

exactly the promise land could be a another planet ...

earth could be a road sign to a bigger better place

SGFerrit
June 14th, 2008, 08:46 AM
Has anyone had this idea?

...Laura Roslin isn't dead yet "They will be lead by a dying leader who will not live to see the promised land"...

Well... She kind of hasn't gotten to see the promised land. It was supposed to be sanctuary, the thriving home of their long lost brothers and sisters. It isn't. It is something none of them saw coming, far from the promised land it was supposed to be, if you get what I mean. But I'm probably totally wrong:D

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 08:46 AM
from scifi forum:

The city in the closing scenes last night was not New York, in fact if you poke around Google Earth and Live Search you will find that it is actually Sydney Australia. They are standing near what is not St Aloysius' College, which has a large cross on one of the buildings, could be the same one shown laying on the ground. The bridge structure is very similar to the Sydney Harbor Bridge. They would be walking on the opposite shore from the Sydney Opera House, do I have to say Opera House twice.

GateDragon
June 14th, 2008, 08:49 AM
i just hope that the fleet stays there and explorers i'm sure some written material must have survived

acce
June 14th, 2008, 08:50 AM
I was quite expecting to see the Statue of Liberty.


LOOOOL - I said the same thing to my brother lol!

Corona
June 14th, 2008, 08:52 AM
Great ep!

Adama drooling on Lee's hand! Eww!

D'Anna is such a *****!

Earth so quickly? Couldn't be. Not with half a season to go.

All the ships descending. Did anyone else expect an Earth response to this 'invasion'?

Radioactive soil? I see this coming to an ugly end and like some, expected a Statue of Liberty sticking up although that would be real cheesey.

That dome ruins looks like the temple in the drawing.

What year do you suppose it is?

I wonder if they could find Cheyenne Mountain complex or would have a way to find any other cold war structures.

Lastly I find the comments on Sci Fi boards not as knowledgeable on the show as those (hidden?) here! More rookies I guess!

NEXT YEAR! FRAK!

DigiFluid
June 14th, 2008, 08:53 AM
I guess the dead Six was the dying leader who didn't get to see the Promised Land.

Or else it is indeed Roslin. She's dying, and they're at Earth, but it certainly isn't the Promised Land they were expecting.

Xicer
June 14th, 2008, 09:00 AM
There aren't enough nukes in the world to bomb every corner of it

I'm pretty sure the U.S. alone has enough nukes to kill the world several times over. Russia has a bit more than us, and then there are all those other little nuclear states as well.

GateofDOOM
June 14th, 2008, 09:05 AM
What an episode.

The music was absolutely astonishing. I don't think the soundtrack has been this good since "Pegasus".

When the RTF was cheering in orbit around earth I had this horrible sinking feeling. Turns out, for good reason. Nuclear Wasteland! This is not the paradise the colonials needed.

Gack! Can't...wait...

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 09:32 AM
What an episode.

The music was absolutely astonishing. I don't think the soundtrack has been this good since "Pegasus".


yeah, I'm still watching that scene again and again and again....:-)

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 09:40 AM
http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/101203.jpg

Pepermint Jaffa
June 14th, 2008, 09:45 AM
exactly the promise land could be a another planet ...

earth could be a road sign to a bigger better place

Or, is it possible this isn't Earth? Since the constellations from Kobol matched, it probably is, but I'm just wondering. I thought it was odd that they wouldn't show the continents as the ships were descending. And at the end of season 3 when they zoomed to a view of Earth...I could have sworn it included a lot of green.

P-90_177
June 14th, 2008, 09:56 AM
Wow. what an ep. every minute was incredible. Olmos was particularly intense. the moment when he's having what was essentially a crisis of faith was intense and brilliantly acted. actually there wasn't a single performance that didn't shine here. But the Admiral and President Adama were particularly good. I reckon this proved my theory that Lee would make a damn good leader.

DigiFluid
June 14th, 2008, 10:04 AM
There aren't enough nukes in the world to bomb every corner of it

Uh, yes there are. That's what made that whole 50 year "Cold War" thing so ****ing scary. The United States and the ex-Soviet Union independently have nuclear arsenals sizeable enough to completely destroy the world multiple times over each. To say nothing of the numerous states with smaller nuclear arsenals like the UK, France, Israel, etc.

Trek_Girl42
June 14th, 2008, 10:12 AM
-also does any1 have screenshot from when they pan around the ruins they are standing in... to me some of the stones looked like they had christian crosses on them, suggesting that they are in a church of somekind...I haven't got one yet, but I did see one last night where there was clearly a very large cross marked on a slab of stone on the ground.
from scifi forum:

The city in the closing scenes last night was not New York, in fact if you poke around Google Earth and Live Search you will find that it is actually Sydney Australia. They are standing near what is not St Aloysius' College, which has a large cross on one of the buildings, could be the same one shown laying on the ground. The bridge structure is very similar to the Sydney Harbor Bridge. They would be walking on the opposite shore from the Sydney Opera House, do I have to say Opera House twice.Reallly! I like!!!!!


http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/101203.jpgWow. That does look about right. :D

I'm SO glad that they're not going the everybody lands in America cause hey, that's where everyone goes route.

P-90_177
June 14th, 2008, 10:24 AM
You know I just noticed something....Tyrol was behaveing very odd in this episode......All the way through he just seemed....quite ammused by the idea of being shoved out an airlock or the fact that Earth was a Nuclear wasteland.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_011.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_012.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_014.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_018.jpg

Trek_Girl42
June 14th, 2008, 10:29 AM
You know I just noticed something....Tyrol was behaveing very odd in this episode......All the way through he just seemed....quite ammused by the idea of being shoved out an airlock or the fact that Earth was a Nuclear wasteland.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_011.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_012.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_014.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_018.jpg
I think that's very in character for him (probably the same reaction I'd have if I stepped on that planet). What do you do when things gets so unbelievabley bad beyond what you could conceive? Well, some people smile because they just can't do anything else.

atb
June 14th, 2008, 10:32 AM
I'm pretty sure this theory has been suggested before, but I can't find the original thread in the forums. It was also suggested on the SciFi forums.

The theory is based on the "All this has happened before..." notion. Basically Earth is the original version of Caprica. So those who lived on Earth, let's call them Terrans, created bio-mechanical beings called Humans who eventually rebelled and destroyed the Terrans by nuking Earth. The few Terrans that survived eventually hooked up with the Humans, had some kids, and started a new Human civilization on Caprica. Eventually this civilization created bio-mechanical beings called Cylons who rebelled, and so on.

So some ideas that come out of this are:

- Maybe the 12 Lords of Cobol were the first 12 hybrids between Terrans and Humans? (Hera, Nicholas)

-Could the Final Five be the first skin jobs created by the Humans? The equivalent being the first 7 models of Cylon skin jobs?

-I think the final model to be revelead is someone who has been around since the Humans were created, he/she has their own ageneda in orchastrating these events to occur over and over.

Cap116
June 14th, 2008, 10:42 AM
You know I just noticed something....Tyrol was behaveing very odd in this episode......All the way through he just seemed....quite ammused by the idea of being shoved out an airlock or the fact that Earth was a Nuclear wasteland.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_011.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_012.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_014.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/NDVD_018.jpg



I just think he was ready to get it over with, after the blow up at Adama after Cally died. Probably just ready to stop hiding it.

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 10:43 AM
I'm pretty sure this theory has been suggested before, but I can't find the original thread in the forums. It was also suggested on the SciFi forums.

The theory is based on the "All this has happened before..." notion. Basically Earth is the original version of Caprica. So those who lived on Earth, let's call them Terrans, created bio-mechanical beings called Humans who eventually rebelled and destroyed the Terrans by nuking Earth. The few Terrans that survived eventually hooked up with the Humans, had some kids, and started a new Human civilization on Caprica. Eventually this civilization created bio-mechanical beings called Cylons who rebelled, and so on.

So some ideas that come out of this are:

- Maybe the 12 Lords of Cobol were the first 12 hybrids between Terrans and Humans? (Hera, Nicholas)

-Could the Final Five be the first skin jobs created by the Humans? The equivalent being the first 7 models of Cylon skin jobs?

-I think the final model to be revelead is someone who has been around since the Humans were created, he/she has their own ageneda in orchastrating these events to occur over and over.

it has all happened thousands years ago (Kobol, etc.) and these buildings on Earth didn't look so old.

I think humans evolved on Earth and later moved on Kobol ->12 tribes + 1 tribe returned to Earth and it's possible they've destroyed themselves.

g.o.d
June 14th, 2008, 10:45 AM
I just think he was ready to get it over with, after the blow up at Adama after Cally died. Probably just ready to stop hiding it.

well, some people under pressure collapse, some don't (they create another forms of "protection").

GateDragon
June 14th, 2008, 10:48 AM
i think galen was relvied that he doesn't have to hide anymore. i big burden off his back

hell i proabaly would be smilling too in his situation

Fjord
June 14th, 2008, 10:58 AM
it has all happened thousands years ago (Kobol, etc.) and these buildings on Earth didn't look so old.

I think humans evolved on Earth and later moved on Kobol ->12 tribes + 1 tribe returned to Earth and it's possible they've destroyed themselves.

Why would the people of Earth revert to the ancient greek religon and set up prophecies? Already in our current world, belief in religon has begun to fall and the notion of prophecy is less and less believed...If the people of Warth came to Kobol i think they would be scientific colony...

dosed150
June 14th, 2008, 11:06 AM
I don't understand what either of you is suggesting. :p

Hohenzollern: ..."antediluvian" means BEFORE the flood, so that it hasn't happened yet.
omega431: The planet was definitely nuked... seems like it's set long after the flood, no?


But the constellations matched up, right? So it had to be Earth.

But yeah, I could tell something wasn't quite right when the ships beginning to enter the atmosphere: we saw white clouds, blue ocean... and black continents. Yikes. :S

i knew something was amiss when they said there were no dradis contacts at least the iss and maybe some of the bigger satelites would show up on dradis

LoneStar1836
June 14th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Umm...WOW!


Had to digest that episode after last night.




And what the frak was Lee's little striptease on the DRADIS table? I mean, I'm not complaining, per se, but it was... odd.

However, EJO wins the season.lol! I was like wtf is he doing? That jarred me out of the moment. :S I'd have rather him gone over and given Dee a hug or something. I mean they were married after all and had an amicable break-up. It would have been nicer if he had been standing somewhere near Kara, but.....


Yeah, EJO really sold that. And MH did a fantastic job in this ep as well. I was about ready to start tearing up the room as well if they had airlocked Tigh. :mckay:


This episode confirmed that I don't like Tory at all. Someone needs to airlock her. Anders, Saul and Tyrol all in the air lock was a great scene. I loved Saul standing at attention the whole time, trying to maintain his humanity until the end.Me too! on both accounts.

They wrote and played Tigh's reveal perfectly. The guy's a hero for willingly sacrificing himself to save the other humans. Though I think he may have done it more for his dear friend than to save the others. The character has always been one of my favorites. Loyal friend to the very end.


I was quite expecting to see the Statue of Liberty. But at least this didn't end in an epic cliffhanger like season 3's mid-season finale.Heh, me too. I was actually looking for it but so glad that they didn't put it in there.


Still hoping Tyrol finds out the truth about Tory.Me too as I absolutely cannot stand that *bleep*.


Just once, I'd like to see people land on a future Earth in the middle of the (American) midwest. Or, you know, anywhere but New frakking York. Or places that look like New frakking York.I know. Enough with New York. Though I'm thinking that's not New York. Heck it's not even our earth so to speak.

Though I like the idea that it could possibly be Sydney with it's strong association to an opera house.

I'm tempted to say that they haven't found earth yet, but I think they have. It's just not our earth. It's similar but doesn't have the exact same history as ours.


How did they zero in on the templeish ruins, why not set down in the city (yes very NYC like), if there is info to be had it's more likely there. Was that auroras temple?Imo, it has to be. Why reference it at the beginning of the episode as well as show us a picture of it? It think that was supposed to be a clue that this was the earth referenced in their religious texts.



I just had another thought. What if the planet they landed on isn't Earth. I mean someone had to return Starbuck. The people of Earth led them to a false planet on purpose. Maybe a test to see if they finally trust each other. I mean the Earth that was shown in season 3 wasn't a cloud filled nuclear waste.I kind of want to think that but then I'm not sure RDM would keep jerking us around like that.

Though if RDM and co. wanted us not to be unsure, they would have given us proof with a reveal of a continent outline, but the thick cloud cover made it impossible for me to make anything out definitively. Obviously our earth with the continental layout does exist in the world of BSG since they revealed it to us at the end of last season.


The planet was a terraformed Mars. (sarcasm added) All in all, if it is Earth so be it. I think a destroyed Earth will make for a more interesting plot pointthan a technologically marvelous Earth.In a way, me too. I actually like this outcome more so. When it was revealed that this "earth" was radiated, it didn't surprise me and it didn't tick me off. It rather fits with the whole story, imo.

Hey they could all pack up and head on back to Kobol. ;) That planet had it all, and that's where the story supposedly began. I just don't think people want to spend another two years in those ships.

Can't wait to see where they go from here in the second half. I think the second half will be way way more character driven than story driven.

Silverbeacher
June 14th, 2008, 11:17 AM
Expounding on the idea that this "earth" is actually in the Alpha Centauri system

from the Wiki (ok, not the perfect source but usually pretty good on the science stuff)

1.) Alpha Centauri A and B ar main sequence Yellow-White stars, with A just slightly more massive than Sol, and B slightly smaller/dimmer.

2.) From an observer the celestial sky would look almost identical to what would be seen from Earth with only a few minor exceptions.

3.) A habitable planet is theoretically possible around Centauri and also due to the stars orbiting pattern with each other, while the Secondary Star (in either case) would appear in the sky to be very bright (170-2300x brightness of a Full Moon), still not bright/close enough to adversely affect climate/photosynthesis

huntress
June 14th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Has anybody else here read the Faded Sun trilogy by C.J. Cherryh? I don't know why, but my mind constantly drifts to that trilogy when I think of the season ending, maybe also because the technology in the trilogy is a bit similiar because shipy also jump like they do on BSG (but have a more drastic effect on the crew) In the trilogy two Mri and a human travel with a special ship all the way back to the original home planet of the Mri which is now ancient and cold and has very little life. On their way they jump to all those different planets that were planets on which the Mri used to live and all of them are dead wastelands. Is this the fate of the humans too in BSG?

Everything that has happened before, will happen again

Chev's Ron
June 14th, 2008, 11:39 AM
I think there is more than meets the eye, I believe there will still be humans left somewhere, whether they colonised the moon, Mars or Titan, or even if there are still pockets of humans left on Earth. Keep in mind we only saw the ruins of one nuked city. There are so many cities the world over that could still be standing and inhabited, I don't think the fleet can scan planet surfaces from space and they have to rely literally on what they can see from their Raptors. Earth is a big bloody planet lol. They can't see it all straight away.


True, there are alot of cities left in the world, however, in "water" and the "new caprica" eps we see them scanning the surfaces of planets for water and viability. If it wasn't for Adama's "frak it, we go in...It is the end of the line" I would be suprised at why they didn't scan then enter.

Hohenzollern
June 14th, 2008, 11:47 AM
I don't understand what either of you is suggesting. :p

Hohenzollern: ..."antediluvian" means BEFORE the flood, so that it hasn't happened yet.
omega431: The planet was definitely nuked... seems like it's set long after the flood, no?
:S

Antediluvian can also be used, figuratively, to describe something of great age. In this case both work. Why can't the planet be nuked before the events in the myth of the "Great Flood"? Such as the ideas or imagining touched upon in the Epic Poem the Mahabharata?

Couldn't the names of the characters and their religions of Polytheism be the precursors to that of the Ancient Greeks?
Recall the the original BSG series; the words at the opening of the first episodes?

"Don't let your minds be cluttered up with the prevailing doctrine." - Alexander Fleming (1881-1955).

Hohenzollern
June 14th, 2008, 11:52 AM
Has anybody else here read the Faded Sun trilogy by C.J. Cherryh? I don't know why, but my mind constantly drifts to that trilogy when I think of the season ending, maybe also because the technology in the trilogy is a bit similiar because shipy also jump like they do on BSG (but have a more drastic effect on the crew) In the trilogy two Mri and a human travel with a special ship all the way back to the original home planet of the Mri which is now ancient and cold and has very little life. On their way they jump to all those different planets that were planets on which the Mri used to live and all of them are dead wastelands. Is this the fate of the humans too in BSG?

Everything that has happened before, will happen again

No, I have not read that book but will definitely look into it. Re your italics of Everything that has happened before...; that is spot on. Ghosh sums it up:

"European scholarship regards human civilization as a recent progression starting yesterday with the Fiji islander, and ending today with Rockefeller, conceiving ancient culture as necessarily half savage culture." It is a superstition of modern thought that the march of knowledge has always been linear." "Our vision of "prehistory" is terribly inadequate. We have not yet rid our minds from the hold of a one-and-only God or one-and-only Book, and now a one-and-only Science."

~ wrote Shri Aurobindo Ghosh (1872-1950) philosopher of modern India

MerryK
June 14th, 2008, 12:00 PM
I so wanted to stop the episode after they were all rejoicing, because that would have been a perfect end to the series, and I knew RDM was going to frak with it. Now I have some serious anger boiling inside—they'd better not just give up! I don't care if Earth is destroyed or not, I just want to see Humans and Cylons living together and making new life. After all the messages about humanity's nobility allowing them to survive, and how necessary hope is, it wouldn't make sense for the ending to be nihilistic.

Also, I'm probably the only one who hated EJO's performance here. Loved Lee, though, and everyone else was good, though not outstanding.

But they found Earth. I'd be spitting nails if the series ended and they didn't, so I'm glad that point is out of the way.

P-90_177
June 14th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I want to have Bear McCreary's babies. That orchestral bit with the yellow sunlight - truly beautiful.

And what the frak was Lee's little striptease on the DRADIS table? I mean, I'm not complaining, per se, but it was... odd.

However, EJO wins the season.

Well he's probably wanted to standon the DRADIS table for a while now. I mean come on. You're in the colonial Navy for however long it is. you've served on loads of battlestars, seen them all.........ah part of you would just want to do something crazy.............


Earth is the new Kobol? Did they already have their own Exodus?

Also based on the coming attractions for next half (season)it would seem that the 5th cylon is definitely alive and Deanna was apologizing to Col. Tigh in rapture.

Dancing on the dradis table and flinging your jacket over your ex wife's head is not very presidential.

How did they zero in on the templeish ruins, why not set down in the city (yes very NYC like), if there is info to be had it's more likely there. Was that auroras temple?

The pairing off(and lack of) at the end was interesting too, Sam shunning Tory, Cap6 stroking Tigh, Kara alone.

I don't know what a nuclear winter looks like but the planet looks ok from orbit, the light on the surface looks like the harsher light seen on other planets.

He wasn't President at that point. ;)

hoof
June 14th, 2008, 12:03 PM
I'm 100% convinced that this is Earth. It's just so RDM to have them a) reach earth early, and b) earth is a wasteland.

Every "seeking someplace special" series has the destination reached at the end of the series. Every series that does that has some big happy ending that completes the story. Since BSG is kind of an anti-trek, anti-utopian series, this makes perfect sense. Nobody expects them to reach earth this early. Nobody expected that the earth would be devastated. That's what makes it so special, and a "oh sorry, this really isn't Earth" could be a cop-out and very un-RDM. That's why it *has* to be earth. It's much more devastating and significant if it is indeed earth.

The second half of the series is going to be awesome *becase* this is Earth and it's a wasteland. Now we get to see the fleet and the cylons react to the dream smashed. Now we get to see the RTF go through the "WTF" moment. Plus, there are a gazillion loose ends (What about the human/cylon hybrids? What is the real story behind the final 5? Who is the last? Who/what is Kara and who provided the "special" viper? What happened to Earth? What happens with the cylon civil war, and what do the other 3 models do when the inevitable confrontation occurs between them and the 2/6/8's + humans? Will the alliance fall apart now?)

So how will the series end? Will it be a Lord of the Rings post-climax ending (where there isn't some final surprise at the end, but a deposition on what happens after the final arc is complete), or will it be a sudden/violent ending? Or something else? Only RDM (and the BSG crew) knows =)

I half expected Tigh to get ejected out of the port. We're so close to the end that losing him wouldn't be crippling, it could also add to the Adama storyline. Plus, I'm fully expecting main characters to start dying off in the final episodes.

What I find fascinating is the assumption that the Earthlings destroyed themselves amongst many posters. I'm of the "this has all happened before" school of thought, and that Earth is what it is because of a war. I like the idea that the Final Five destroyed the 13th tribe, then left for the other 12's with some big plan (maybe to stop the cycle, prevent the repeat of the past). OTOH, a nuclear war wouldn't leave much radiation behind after 4000 years, not enough to set off a geiger counter like that, which suggests Earth was destroyed more recently than that (remember, Kobol wasn't radioactive, and with radiation half-lifes, 4000 years can easily reduce radiation levels to habitable levels). That suggests the final five only recently arrived at the colonies, too late to stop the creation of the new cylons and the repeat of what happened with them. Or they left with some plan, but Earth was destroyed while they were gone.

And finally, I'm curious about the motivations behind D'anna not outing the fifth. Obviously the series writers wants to spring that reveal later on, but with nothing more to motivate her to keep that info hidden, you'd think she'd at a minimum seek out the 5th.

Next year is too far away!

DigiFluid
June 14th, 2008, 12:46 PM
'Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, she will lead the human race to its end'

Having been to Earth several months ago, which now we see is destroyed...

Hmm....

Gaeth
June 14th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Perhaps the other Cylons that didn't join the alliance with humanity got there first somehow and nuked it? Perhaps not, but interesting to think about.

AeronPrometheus
June 14th, 2008, 01:49 PM
There aren't enough nukes in the world to bomb every corner of it and besides would want to bomb the Africans or South Americans? They don't have much anyway.

What was the statistic? There is enough nuclear firepower right now to destroy the planet 20 times over?

Kezia
June 14th, 2008, 01:50 PM
Perhaps the other Cylons that didn't join the alliance with humanity got there first somehow and nuked it? Perhaps not, but interesting to think about.

That is an interesting possibility.

On a completely unrelated note, I was kinda hoping we'd find out which of the final five D'Anna was apologizing to in THAT scene. :o

Unless it's the final unrevealed cylon...



'Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, she will lead the human race to its end'

Having been to Earth several months ago, which now we see is destroyed...

Hmm....

Ah-ha. :)

AeronPrometheus
June 14th, 2008, 02:00 PM
'Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, she will lead the human race to its end'

Having been to Earth several months ago, which now we see is destroyed...

Hmm....

THAT would be interesting... I smell a flashback. I also smell time travel, and I love time travel! :)

Zatnikitelman
June 14th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Damn it people! It IS Earth! Wherever you got the info about the sky not being that different from Earth is bull cookies! Many of the stars in the Zodiacial constellations are relatively close to Earth. Right off hand, one of the stars in Aires is only 12 light years away. The Centauri Trinary system is only about 5 light years from Earth. Unless the constellations closer stars lied pretty much on a straight line between Earth and Centauri, the view would be significantly different, at the very least the constellations would be screwed up enough so that they wouldn't match. The farther stars would be about the same, that much is right. But for these constellations it's pretty significant.

CellarDwellar
June 14th, 2008, 03:01 PM
I was angry because now I have to wonder about the following:

- Who is Adama crying over?
- Who the hell is the fifth?
- What about the One True God?
- Hera?
- When will Roslin finally die of her cancer?
- Why aren't they doing the same thing they did before to stop Roslin's cancer...?
- Why doesn't the Admiral kill Baltar?
- Will Loveboat Galactica ever conclude? =3=
- What will the new alliance become like after the discover of a nuclear wasteland for Earth?
- What happened to the twelve colonies?
- What did the Cylons do that was so bad?
- Will Kara's mysterious reincarnation ever be frakkin' explained?
- WHO IS ADAMA CRYING OVER?! >_<



What disappointed me in the episode?
- The lack of clarity.
- The fact that none of the designated cylon hopefuls were changed; it was all previously confirmed. We didn't get to see all five, so technically we were ripped off as a fanbase of a promised revelation.
- Adama looked at everyone hugging each other and jumped up on the planning map thinger, and waved his coat around; what on earth, dude. What, the, frak.
- Sol Tigh didn't get flushed out the airlock.
- The knowledge of having to wait a year for 4.5

What made me happy?
- "What has happened before, doesn't have to happen again."

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 03:17 PM
i knew something was amiss when they said there were no dradis contacts at least the iss and maybe some of the bigger satelites would show up on dradis

based on that thinking... there should hundreds of contacts! despite the destroyed civilization, we have thousands of satellites flying around up there that wouldnt have been affected by that devastation in space. and they should be relatively intact!

Kezia
June 14th, 2008, 03:22 PM
- Who is Adama crying over?
The way I saw it was that Adama was already on some major stress at the point, and Saul (his closest friend whom he had known for 30 years) coming out as a cylon simply pushed him over the edge.


- Who the hell is the fifth?
- What about the One True God?
- Hera?
- When will Roslin finally die of her cancer?
- Why aren't they doing the same thing they did before to stop Roslin's cancer...?
- Why doesn't the Admiral kill Baltar?
- What will the new alliance become like after the discover of a nuclear wasteland for Earth?
- What happened to the twelve colonies?
- What did the Cylons do that was so bad?
- Will Kara's mysterious reincarnation ever be frakkin' explained?
Well, all I can say is RDM is definitely doing something right. :)
Here's to Season 4.5.


- Will Loveboat Galactica ever conclude? =3=
If you're talking about Roslin/Adama, I thought it was very well written.


- The lack of clarity.
Lack of clarity?????
This is BSG we're talking about here!


- The fact that none of the designated cylon hopefuls were changed; it was all previously confirmed. We didn't get to see all five, so technically we were ripped off as a fanbase of a promised revelation.
They found Earth. I'd say that's a big revelation.


- Adama looked at everyone hugging each other and jumped up on the planning map thinger, and waved his coat around; what on earth, dude. What, the, frak.
I agree that it was a bit weird, but they'd finally found earth and after all they'd been through I'd cut him some slack.
It was quite funny though.


- Sol Tigh didn't get flushed out the airlock.
:eek:

Personally, I was so incredibly relived that Kara arrived at the eleventh hour to save Tigh, and also pretty much the entire human race at that point.

If she hadn't stopped Lee, things would have escaleted and D'Anna would probably have nuked the entire fleet right then and there.


What made me happy?
- "What has happened before, doesn't have to happen again."
Agreed!

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Snow
Just once, I'd like to see people land on a future Earth in the middle of the (American) midwest. Or, you know, anywhere but New frakking York. Or places that look like New frakking York.

I know. Enough with New York. Though I'm thinking that's not New York. Heck it's not even our earth so to speak.


all you guys always hate on new york... why wouldnt u land in new york is the question? when coming in from orbit looking for people to make contact with, are you really going to aim for a field in the middle of america next to some cows? nope, youll come down in the most populated area you could find! and guess what, nyc alone has 8 million ppl. thats why you landing in nyc and not indianapolis....
-now you can argue why nyc over los angeles or other big cities... new york just has easily recognizable landmarks. i mean how many places can ppl from around the world recognize a building, or even just a frakin bridge! so its way easier for the directors to throw up the brooklyn brdige then say that big roundish tall building in l.a.
-so thats whyy u always see beautiful nyc :)!

Trek_Girl42
June 14th, 2008, 03:45 PM
all you guys always hate on new york... why wouldnt u land in new york is the question? when coming in from orbit looking for people to make contact with, are you really going to aim for a field in the middle of america next to some cows? nope, youll come down in the most populated area you could find! and guess what, nyc alone has 8 million ppl. thats why you landing in nyc and not indianapolis....
-now you can argue why nyc over los angeles or other big cities... new york just has easily recognizable landmarks. i mean how many places can ppl from around the world recognize a building, or even just a frakin bridge! so its way easier for the directors to throw up the brooklyn brdige then say that big roundish tall building in l.a.
-so thats whyy u always see beautiful nyc :)!Except that this time it's not New York or even America. :D

beale947
June 14th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Somthing I've just thought of. A new angle to the whole 'Kara Thrace is the Harbinger of death etc. etc.'


She is the Harbinger of death as it was her viper and her discovery of the signal which led them to earth which was destroyed.
The fleet will obviously go beserk, and prehaps the infighting in the fleet will be the 'lead the Human race to their end.'

Though it could be simply interpreted as she lead them to the end of their journy.

Edit: Is it me or does Adama look like Koyla in his clothes when he's on the surface?

DetriusXii
June 14th, 2008, 03:59 PM
I'm having doubts that the planet was radioactive. Earth has background radiation which isn't harmful to us humans. We can't conclude that earth was destroyed in a nuclear holocaust based off the Geiger counter since if earth was still dangerously radioactive, the colonials would need to leave immediately.

My question is if the city ruins contain any history. With the absence of life, the only thing that could destroy artifacts is atmospheric forces. The ruins are left standing. One could assume that something, inside the ruins, could end up being preserved.

LoneStar1836
June 14th, 2008, 04:06 PM
all you guys always hate on new york... why wouldnt u land in new york is the question? when coming in from orbit looking for people to make contact with, are you really going to aim for a field in the middle of america next to some cows? nope, youll come down in the most populated area you could find! and guess what, nyc alone has 8 million ppl. thats why you landing in nyc and not indianapolis....
-now you can argue why nyc over los angeles or other big cities... new york just has easily recognizable landmarks. i mean how many places can ppl from around the world recognize a building, or even just a frakin bridge! so its way easier for the directors to throw up the brooklyn brdige then say that big roundish tall building in l.a.
-so thats whyy u always see beautiful nyc :)!Because I'm not as enamored with NYC as New Yorkers are. :P:)

Why not aim for Florida (if we stick to North America) as its peninsula does catch your eye from space?

I don't think they would do a census count before deciding which city to land in. :P:D


But I like the idea that they could be in Sydney.


I wonder if that once they got into earth's orbit if they weren't able to get a better reading of where the transmission to the Viper was coming from and that that helped them to determine where they would send down the landing party.

wiseowl777
June 14th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Except that this time it's not New York or even America. :D


i have no qualms with them not picking my home... just suprised that the RTF would pick the smallest continent to land on as opposed to even landing somewhere in europe... plus i didnt recognize that as sydney until some1 said that on this thread and ive actually been there! -hehe

-great episode though!

MmmmMcKAy
June 14th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Dear gods, this show is bleak.:( I LOVE IT!!!!!!:)

Wow, Tory couldn't wait to leave the humans behind and join the Cylons, could she. She's completely severed her previous life. It doesn't matter at all to her. She's cold.

I'm glad Tigh finally told Adama the cylon news. Poor Bill. His whole world was rocked. He and Anders and Tyrol look relieved. It's been hell for them.

Cool to see everyone joyous for a change but I knew it wouldn't last. Earth went boom boom. ;)

What now? There are lots of questions yet to be answered.....ie Kara's return, the 5th cylon, how will cylons and humans get along, where will they go now, or will they stay on Earth etc.

huntress
June 14th, 2008, 04:12 PM
After all the messages about humanity's nobility allowing them to survive, and how necessary hope is, it wouldn't make sense for the ending to be nihilistic.



Mmmh are you sure you have watched the same show we have because your comment is for me pure hillarity. Nobility? Nobility??? Right. They are so noble, that they will turn against their own species and collaborate with the enemy, they are so noble, that the airlock people without a second thought. Humanity isn't noble at all in BSG nor is it in real life. I don't know where you get the idea of nobility. The 13th colony e.g. We people of Earth were so noble that we nuked and distroyed Earth.

No. Humanity has never been noble. Our history is made up of wars and there hasn't been a single time in history, when there hasn't been some kind of war going on in some part of the world. Every day an average of 560 Rainforest species go extinct. This equals one species extinction every 2 minutes and 33 seconds and now have a good guess why that is so.....Humanity and noble. What a joke.

Also regarding the landing. Once just ONCE do I want to see some aliens land somewhere that is neither NYC nor the US. That is the reason why I loved ID4. there at least the aliens were everywhere. LOL

marielabbott
June 14th, 2008, 04:17 PM
all you guys always hate on new york... why wouldnt u land in new york is the question? when coming in from orbit looking for people to make contact with, are you really going to aim for a field in the middle of america next to some cows? nope, youll come down in the most populated area you could find! and guess what, nyc alone has 8 million ppl. thats why you landing in nyc and not indianapolis....
-now you can argue why nyc over los angeles or other big cities... new york just has easily recognizable landmarks. i mean how many places can ppl from around the world recognize a building, or even just a frakin bridge! so its way easier for the directors to throw up the brooklyn brdige then say that big roundish tall building in l.a.
-so thats whyy u always see beautiful nyc :)!

I have no New York hate. :) But NYC has been used so often in so many sci-fi shows/films, that's it become cliche to see it's ruins, and BSG usually tends to eschew cliches. So I'm glad they went for (apparently) Sydney instead.

Oh, and random info, Indianapolis and it's surrounding towns is home to nearly 2 million people, and there is a serious lack of cows there. ;)

omega431
June 14th, 2008, 06:10 PM
Antediluvian can also be used, figuratively, to describe something of great age. In this case both work. Why can't the planet be nuked before the events in the myth of the "Great Flood"? Such as the ideas or imagining touched upon in the Epic Poem the Mahabharata?

"Don't let your minds be cluttered up with the prevailing doctrine." - Alexander Fleming (1881-1955).
I really was just thinking the 13th tribe was meant as the antideluvian society and was trying to be humorous in suggesting that they were wiped out by a flood of radiation.

hoof
June 14th, 2008, 07:03 PM
based on that thinking... there should hundreds of contacts! despite the destroyed civilization, we have thousands of satellites flying around up there that wouldnt have been affected by that devastation in space. and they should be relatively intact!

Not if whatever devastated the planets went after the satellites first, or at the same time. Think about the cylon assault on Caprica. When that devastation occurred, *everything* was destroyed, including stuff in space.

If they simply blew themselves apart via nuclear exchange, yes, there should be satellites. If they invented cylons (final 5?) who wiped them out later on, then the case can be made that there are no satellites.

Alternately, you could say the devastation occurred thousands of years ago. In that case, all low earth orbit satellites would have reentered by then (due to atmospheric drag, this is why the ISS needs to be reboosted regularly), and all statellites further away would have eventually shut down and not be emitting anything (and thus virtually invisible to the fleet unless they have *really* powerful active detection systems).

Chev's Ron
June 14th, 2008, 07:18 PM
based on that thinking... there should hundreds of contacts! despite the destroyed civilization, we have thousands of satellites flying around up there that wouldnt have been affected by that devastation in space. and they should be relatively intact!

Actually, after 200 years on our earth, any sattelite in orbit's altitude would decay until it reentered the atmosphere. If it is 4000 years later or 10000 years later as some assume, there is no way in hell a sattelite of any kind would still be afloat. Only a deep space station a long long way further from earth than the ISS would still be in the sky.



My question is if the city ruins contain any history. With the absence of life, the only thing that could destroy artifacts is atmospheric forces. The ruins are left standing. One could assume that something, inside the ruins, could end up being preserved.

Actually, there were a few plants (dead though and mostly vines) but those would have rotted away along time ago with the humidity of being near an ocean, so there is still plant life to decay and destroy buildings.

Also, according to several spoiler sources, and photos from later on in the season, there are forests on earth that kara and leoben walk through, I guess the Austrailians just got the worst of the nukes. (What the hell did austrailia do wrong?)

hoof
June 14th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Also regarding the landing. Once just ONCE do I want to see some aliens land somewhere that is neither NYC nor the US. That is the reason why I loved ID4. there at least the aliens were everywhere. LOL

You may have gotten your wish this time. I doubt that's New York. They landed a) next to the sea, b) next to a bridge abutment. The bridge is in bad shape, and we don't have the box-grid roadbead characteristic of the Brooklyn Bridge. Plus, being a suspension bridge, the road bed would collapse with the severing of the support cables, that obviously didn't happen here.

If you look carefully, there looks like a "Y" in the "river" the bridge is going across. There's a group of destroyed buildings, a gap, then in the distance more buildings, almost as if the buildings were on a penninsula pointing towards the camera (as opposed to pointing to the left that manhattan would be if this were the Brooklyn Bridge). In Google Earth, the river the Brooklyn Bridge goes over arcs to the right, and there would be a shoreline and more detroyed buildings easily visible as a continuous curtain going past the bridge view at this position, unless something made a big crater in that part of the island.

No, this isn't NYC, or if it is, that isn't the Brooklyn Bridge. There's too much wrong with the view at this position, especially with the curve of the supposed "river".

hoof
June 14th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Actually, after 200 years on our earth, any sattelite in orbit's altitude would decay until it reentered the atmosphere. If it is 4000 years later or 10000 years later as some assume, there is no way in hell a sattelite of any kind would still be afloat. Only a deep space station a long long way further from earth than the ISS would still be in the sky.

Only for low earth orbit satellites. Anything about about 1500 miles would still be up there, it just wouldn't be functional after that long. Given how huge space is, if the satellite doesn't transmit, you'd need some sort of really powerful active sensor to detect them.

Agent_Dark
June 14th, 2008, 07:55 PM
Also, according to several spoiler sources, and photos from later on in the season, there are forests on earth that kara and leoben walk through, I guess the Austrailians just got the worst of the nukes. (What the hell did austrailia do wrong?)

Probably just the population centres that got nuked. Sydney, if indeed the ruins are of Sydney, is a major city with 4.5million people.

Trek_Girl42
June 14th, 2008, 08:02 PM
Dear gods, this show is bleak.:( I LOVE IT!!!!!!:):lol: Yes! :D

Having seen the ep three times now, a couple more random thoughts:
I love that Heeding the Call came back, especially as Tigh was walking towards Bill's quarters.

Tory seemed rather casual when Lee said that Tigh was in the airlock, but looked horrified when he said that Tyrol and Anders were as well. I love that Anders shrugged her off at the end. :D

The look on D'anna's face on Earth sums it up perfectly. And Lucy lawless was just plain fantastic.

Gaeta likes Hoshi? Normally I'd be yeah, just a hug, but that hug was a little too fierce to ignore..... And good for him, Gaeta needs some love! Also, the Gaeta scene at the beginning was excellent, nice to see that the Gaeta/Dee friendship is still there- I want more of that!

"Are you guys going to just sit here flapping your lips or are we going to go find earth?" That whole scene with Lee, Bill and Laura was absolutely lovely for all their relationships. Bill looked so small in his dressing gown. :( Also even though it's ridiculously sweet I feel like yelling at Laura "No don't say that!" when she tells him that she wants to see him pick up that first fistful of Earth. Poor Bill. :S

Haven't cared much for Lee for about two seasons. Absolutely love him again after this ep. He grew up and got smart, and his speech to D'anna about setting aside differences was fantastic. And JB was VERY good in this ep. I think it's his best work of the series.

The whole Starbuck running to tell Lee sequence may not have been the smartest thing vs. phoning, but from a dramatic perspective it was definitely the right choice. Intercutting her with Lee and Tigh in the airlock couple with one hell of a musical sequence was absolutely amazing and it needed that exciting pace rather than get on the phone: "Hi Lee, those frakkin' Cylons gave us Earth".

Again mentioning the music. Wow. Bear McCreary's best work on Galactica ever! The choirs were fantastic and absolutely every piece was perfect emotionally.

Zatnikitelman
June 14th, 2008, 08:03 PM
Someone on another forum postulated that one of their friends said it could be San Francisco. Any thoughts on this? I don't really think so, but want a quote before I go and burst their bubble *rubs hands evily*

chyron
June 14th, 2008, 08:05 PM
::WAHH!! WAHH!! ARRGGHH!!! SNIFF, SNIFF, SNORT WAHHH!!! (rolling on the floor crying like a baby):: I'm in a hotel room and thought I didn't have SciFi....I just looked at the guide, and didn't flip through the channWAHHH!! WAHHH!!! I could have watchargghhhh! itsniff, sniff, WAHHH!!! MOMMY!!)

MerryK
June 14th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Mmmh are you sure you have watched the same show we have because your comment is for me pure hillarity. Nobility? Nobility??? Right. They are so noble, that they will turn against their own species and collaborate with the enemy, they are so noble, that the airlock people without a second thought. Humanity isn't noble at all in BSG nor is it in real life. I don't know where you get the idea of nobility. The 13th colony e.g. We people of Earth were so noble that we nuked and distroyed Earth.

No. Humanity has never been noble. Our history is made up of wars and there hasn't been a single time in history, when there hasn't been some kind of war going on in some part of the world. Every day an average of 560 Rainforest species go extinct. This equals one species extinction every 2 minutes and 33 seconds and now have a good guess why that is so.....Humanity and noble. What a joke.

Oh, I'm not saying they are noble. I never said that—I said that their nobility was what allowed them to survive—that is, only their morality kept them alive. That is not to say that they are noble, just that they sometimes show nobility. Sure, they screwed up, and it turned out badly for them, and they regretted it. The show has time and time again shown that being honest and loyal is generally better than the opposite, even if sometimes it doesn't work out too well. Humanity has great potential for nobility that it doesn't usually rise to, but when it does, there are nearly always positive consequences.

The Ori
June 14th, 2008, 08:37 PM
Brilliant ending to the mid-season!! Can't wait for the final half!

Fjord
June 14th, 2008, 10:13 PM
The Earth that the Colonials have encountered is supposedly 22nd century Earth according to some sources i have hard on other threads. Does anyone think that the Humans may have created advanced enough satelites by then which automatically ascend into higher space if their orbit began to decay?

Also, shouldn't the moon have showed up on the dreidus?

Also the last time i checked, Mexico city was the largest city on Earth...Is it not resaonable for foreign visitors to land in Mexico City rather than NY or Sydney?

Xenocide
June 14th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Also the last time i checked, Mexico city was the largest city on Earth...Is it not resaonable for foreign visitors to land in Mexico City rather than NY or Sydney?

Well the largest city by population is Mumbai, India. And the largest metropolitan area by population is Tokyo. Mexico City is 9th and 3rd respectively.

Fjord
June 14th, 2008, 10:48 PM
Well the largest city by population is Mumbai, India. And the largest metropolitan area by population is Tokyo. Mexico City is 9th and 3rd respectively.

wow...things have changed lol....so then yeah, shouldn't the colonials have landed in Tokyo?

Dusk
June 14th, 2008, 10:50 PM
I took a walk down to Kirribilli in Sydney this afternoon, I live really close. It's a wet and windy Winter's day, and I have to tell you it really does look like the scene in this episode. However, the connection with the Opera House... Roslin's vision is set in the Opera House on Kobol is it not? Our Opera House is something quite different inside. Still, it was great to stand on the foreshore there in the dark, windy weather and feel, just for a moment, that I was with the crew on a post-apocalyptic Earth. Magical!

Trek_Girl42
June 15th, 2008, 12:37 AM
I took a walk down to Kirribilli in Sydney this afternoon, I live really close. It's a wet and windy Winter's day, and I have to tell you it really does look like the scene in this episode. However, the connection with the Opera House... Roslin's vision is set in the Opera House on Kobol is it not? Our Opera House is something quite different inside. Still, it was great to stand on the foreshore there in the dark, windy weather and feel, just for a moment, that I was with the crew on a post-apocalyptic Earth. Magical!*is rather jealous* Who says that there aren't two Opera Houses.....

I really want there to be a connection there. :D

Anyone else notice that at the very end of the ep as the camera panned across SYDNEY, through the sound of the crashing waves, was the sound of the exact same signal as from Kara's viper? :D

GateDragon
June 15th, 2008, 05:18 AM
Picture this is the best i could do

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn83/phantomlink84/earthhd.jpg

Deckker
June 15th, 2008, 06:07 AM
I believe Firmly its Sydney.

As for the reason why Sydney, is it not the most dense city near the bottom of the southern hemisphere? So if you came to Earth upside down, it would be a logical choice.

The other possible, is that much of US and Europe are now underwater due to the army of nukes everyone fired at each other.

Starbuck
June 15th, 2008, 06:16 AM
WELL. Frak me.

What an episode. Woah.

I like the idea that the ruins are of Sydney. I didnt even think of that and I'm originally from there! My first thought as was the same with a lot of people was 'wait for the statue of liberty...wait...wait...'. So it will be interesting to see if this theory pans out. I went back and flicked through frame by frame that last scene (sad I know) couldn't help but notcie the curviture of some ruins in the background to the left of the screen just before the moved to the bridge. It sort of did resemble what could have been the formations of the opera house. It is in the right position and all. I don't know what relevance this has (if any at all) but I found interesting. Opera house...THE opera house...I dont know. Is it 2009 yet?

Main thing that annoyed me about the episode however was the lack of 'WTF-ING!' over the revelation of the four. Mainly because these guys were friends and family of the people aboard not just randoms. I expected a rather enourmous reaction from all involved. ESPECIALLY starbuck who had recently said she would put a bullet in sammy's (poor sammy) head should she ever find out he was a cylon.

Apollo's little happy dance on the dradis table was amusing yet a little bit odd.
Speaking of, I'm a little worried of the fate of our dear Mr. President.

Otherwise overall a fantastic episode that I can't wait to see the end of.

One more thing, I still think Zak Adama is the fifth. Have from the start. Considering starbucks whole big destiny thing and the "adama is a cylon" from s1, that, lets face it was NEVER explained, I think I have some substance for my theory.

peragrin
June 15th, 2008, 06:24 AM
I loved this episode. I could only watch it sunday morning as I was gone all day friday and saturday(thank the gods for DVR )This episode was franfriggintastic. An emotional roller coaster, that I will have to watch several more time.


From the lack of plant growth in sydney, the damage was done within a couple hundred years. The Final five either came from, or traveled to earth saw the destruction and traveled back to the Colonies. Earth if they did have star travel would have arrived at Kobol a long time ago.

While there could be survivors only a long search will find them.

Also why not land in Sydney? It probably has lower radiation levels than the east coast of the USA, or even Europe. NYC, Philly, Washington DC could be taken out with a single nuke, but probably have several dozen targeting them right now. Sydney is in Australia? think Canada only warmer, Just replace the eh? with Mate, and grizzly bears with crocodiles. Also who says they didn't scan the planet before and landed in an area with limited radiation?

ToasterOnFire
June 15th, 2008, 06:54 AM
It's been semi-confirmed that the ruins are NOT New York. From a mod at TWoP:

Okay.

I have it on very good authority that we are not looking at the Brooklyn Bridge, and that this is not NYC. Which bums me out -- the show's about 9/11, of course they should land in NYC -- but ... it's not.

Being unspoiled, I can't know more than that, and being professional, my Deep Throat wouldn't tell me more anyway, but trust me when I say this is straight-up confirmed: Not New York.

Kezia
June 15th, 2008, 08:10 AM
Wow, this episode seems to get better with each viewing.

The end scene... I thought it was brilliant how we got to see practically the entire cast congregated in a single place for the first time in the entire series.

What more can I say... It felt like the most meaningful scene in the entire series and that's saying something:
- Bill grabbing the "first fistful of earth"
- Laura's non-expression when D'Anna walked up to her with "what the frak" written all over her face... that was priceless
- The tracking shot of the human-cylon couple walking across the entire scene
- Galen smiling to himself like it was the funniest thing in the world
- Caprica Six walking up to Saul to comfort him
- The final shot of Helo and Athena looking out over the ruined landscape
- The final final shot of the "broken bridge"

Overall, just an amazing, amazing episode. :D

SGFerrit
June 15th, 2008, 09:26 AM
It's been semi-confirmed that the ruins are NOT New York. From a mod at TWoP:

Okay.

I have it on very good authority that we are not looking at the Brooklyn Bridge, and that this is not NYC. Which bums me out -- the show's about 9/11, of course they should land in NYC -- but ... it's not.

Being unspoiled, I can't know more than that, and being professional, my Deep Throat wouldn't tell me more anyway, but trust me when I say this is straight-up confirmed: Not New York.

I hope he's joking.

Trek_Girl42
June 15th, 2008, 09:40 AM
Picture this is the best i could do

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn83/phantomlink84/earthhd.jpgWow that's gorgeous- mind if I snurch for my desktop? My caps kinda suck worse than Earth. :P
One more thing, I still think Zak Adama is the fifth. Have from the start. Considering starbucks whole big destiny thing and the "adama is a cylon" from s1, that, lets face it was NEVER explained, I think I have some substance for my theory.I agree with the theory, through I don't get why the "Adama is a cylon" is continually brought up. What Leoben said is irrelevant. He was mind-frakking Roslin, because that's what Leoben does. All he wanted to was to stir up trouble in the RTF and it worked- I sewed the seeds of distrust and Roslin ended up in the brig soon afterwards! There was never any intent of truth in what he was saying, so I don't think it should go into consideration when determining the final cylon.
I loved this episode. I could only watch it sunday morning as I was gone all day friday and saturday(thank the gods for DVR )This episode was franfriggintastic. An emotional roller coaster, that I will have to watch several more time.


From the lack of plant growth in sydney, the damage was done within a couple hundred years. The Final five either came from, or traveled to earth saw the destruction and traveled back to the Colonies. Earth if they did have star travel would have arrived at Kobol a long time ago.

While there could be survivors only a long search will find them.

Also why not land in Sydney? It probably has lower radiation levels than the east coast of the USA, or even Europe. NYC, Philly, Washington DC could be taken out with a single nuke, but probably have several dozen targeting them right now. Sydney is in Australia? think Canada only warmer, Just replace the eh? with Mate, and grizzly bears with crocodiles. Also who says they didn't scan the planet before and landed in an area with limited radiation?:lol:


It's been semi-confirmed that the ruins are NOT New York. From a mod at TWoP:

Okay.

I have it on very good authority that we are not looking at the Brooklyn Bridge, and that this is not NYC. Which bums me out -- the show's about 9/11, of course they should land in NYC -- but ... it's not.

Being unspoiled, I can't know more than that, and being professional, my Deep Throat wouldn't tell me more anyway, but trust me when I say this is straight-up confirmed: Not New York.YES! Sydney lives!

Well, not exactly..... :P

nemesis24
June 15th, 2008, 09:53 AM
another point that made me think "ummm" was earlier when the chief was looking over the viper he said if someone wanted to make a new viper and send it back then thats the way to do it (or something along those lines), which got me thinking if someone sent a viper back to the fleet with the ability to find earth then the question remains as to who sent the viper back...

Platschu
June 15th, 2008, 10:00 AM
I was a bit disappointed. I think it could be better as a two parter or an extended episode. It went so quick that they couldn't show us the real reactions of the Final Five. Only Adama, Baltar, Roslin and Starbuck reacted somehow, but the other characters hadn't got screen-time to show their emotions. The revelation of Anders and Tyrol was strange and easy going, because I waited something bigger and more dramatic. I loved the music, when Starbuck ran to save Tigh. This drum and chorus song was phenomenal. :) I liked the end of the episode that they made a truce with the Cylons. ;)

DigiFluid
June 15th, 2008, 10:53 AM
I hope he's joking.

The miniseries script was written not long after 9/11, the bleak disaster of the attacks as well as the prevalent feel of "what the hell is going on?" and "is the world coming to an end?" were very much inspired by 9/11 and its immediate aftermath. We've known that ever since the mini first aired.

SGFerrit
June 15th, 2008, 11:06 AM
The miniseries script was written not long after 9/11, the bleak disaster of the attacks as well as the prevalent feel of "what the hell is going on?" and "is the world coming to an end?" were very much inspired by 9/11 and its immediate aftermath. We've known that ever since the mini first aired.

New York and America are always used to represent Earth in TV. Just look at the end of season 3. Ron even admitted it was because some American viewers may not have recognised it as Earth if they had shown another continent like Europe, Africa or Australia. I'm happy they went with something different for a change.

DigiFluid
June 15th, 2008, 11:08 AM
Me too. And the idea that it could be Sydney (Opera House! Opera House!) excites me to no end.

Skydiver
June 15th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
'Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, she will lead the human race to its end'

Having been to Earth several months ago, which now we see is destroyed...

Hmm....

that's a cool theory. what if kara's viper, in skimming earth, triggered the self-defense missiles of all sides, all the nuclear powers thought their enemies were attacking them and all let their missiles loose...she was the catalyst to apocalypse

of course, it could also have been some sort of natural disaster. a comet/meteor impact? Massive super volcano explosion that set off a giant tsunami that wrecked all/most of the major coastal cities?


I have no New York hate. :) But NYC has been used so often in so many sci-fi shows/films, that's it become cliche to see it's ruins, and BSG usually tends to eschew cliches. So I'm glad they went for (apparently) Sydney instead.

Oh, and random info, Indianapolis and it's surrounding towns is home to nearly 2 million people, and there is a serious lack of cows there. ;)

NYC gets used because its silhouette is almost instantly recognizible. And it's easy for US film companies to get to and deal with. The Eiffel tower, Big Ben, the Sydney Opera house, the golden gate bridge, those are a handful of cities whose skylines/architecture are universally recognizable.

Someone has to be there alive. Even the worst nuclear disaster or natural disaster...nothing is 100% fatal. There are so many people spread out so far across the globe, someone is alive.

of course, there is another irony...if earth is truly a nuclear wasteland, the cylons are the only ones that can stay. they were immune to the radiation on caprica, so we can guess that they're immune here too.

and maybe that's what'll be revealed. that earth was 'sanitized' to leave it open for cylon colonization. maybe that's what they learned from new caprica, that they can't co-exist with the humans, so they needed to remove them to have earth all to themselves

xSFx
June 15th, 2008, 11:23 AM
This is from BSG - Razor


Hybrid: Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity. And in the midst of their confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in the shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know emnity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many. And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of the angel - - not an end, but a beginning.

Let's analyse that in the light of the latest episode.

Skydiver
June 15th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Hybrid: Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves.

pretty self explanatory. tigh, tori, galen, sam, all struggled.

The pain of revelation bringing new clarity.

I think we saw that too. they found earth, and didn't even know it

And in the midst of their confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one.

I'm wondering....six and tigh? he sees six as his wife which he murdered, and seems a wee bit fond of her :)

The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.

which is cylons and humans working together

And the fifth, still in the shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.

so...#5 'knows' that s/he is a cylon, but isn't quite ready to admit it.

I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know emnity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many.

this civil war will end with all the cylons un-allied. they will no longer be blindly committed to a single cause, but will all do as they all think best


And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of the angel - - not an end, but a beginning.

so the 5th cylon will be revealed/found on earth. presuming that earth is the promised land, and not just a pit stop

DigiFluid
June 15th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Let's analyse that in the light of the latest episode.
That's a good idea..


Hybrid: Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity.

Easy enough, that seems to describe the events of 'Crossroads'.


And in the midst of their confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.

The second half, pretty plainly, seems to discuss the continued alliance between the Colonials and the rebel Cylons.

The first half still puzzles me a little, "he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing." Could this refer to Saul and Caprica? Supposed enemies, him drawn to love of Ellen, her inexplicably drawn to the Five?


And the fifth, still in the shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.
Tough call here. Immediately, I think of Baltar. He's sought redemption for his sins, even if he won't admit it to himself, through his newfound prophet role. He confessed these sins to Roslin when bleeding to death in last week's episode.

And yet, I'm really convinced that Baltar is not a Cylon. But who among the RTF still seeks redemption?


I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know emnity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many.

Cylon civil war, no doubt.


And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of the angel - - not an end, but a beginning

For a long time now I've thought that the end will be a permanent union between mankind and Cylon, so that's immediately what I think of when I read this; but the "wings of an angel" throws me off a bit. Could that refer to the final Cylon? Or perhaps it refers to the "dying leader"?

m57lyra
June 15th, 2008, 11:53 AM
I've been asking myself; what is that building they are standing in at the end. Seriously, I've been skimming streetview pictures in google maps trying to find a building that matches architecturally. Big, stone base, almost gothic look to the windows, with steel supports creating a low dome at one end of the building.

I say that this is supposed to be a church or temple, but...

Does anybody know if there is a building in Real Life that matches this?

It doesn't match a real life building.

At the beginning of the epiode, they were looking at a book with an illustratio of the Temple of Aurora. It had a central domed structure with ribs that looked like the dome ribs lying on the ground.

They were standing at that temple.

m57lyra
June 15th, 2008, 12:09 PM
from scifi forum:

The city in the closing scenes last night was not New York, in fact if you poke around Google Earth and Live Search you will find that it is actually Sydney Australia. They are standing near what is not St Aloysius' College, which has a large cross on one of the buildings, could be the same one shown laying on the ground. The bridge structure is very similar to the Sydney Harbor Bridge. They would be walking on the opposite shore from the Sydney Opera House, do I have to say Opera House twice.

I *completely* disagree. The orientation of the bridge buttress is completely wrong and there are no other structures that would suggest the aurora-like temple anywhere near it.

Here is a link to zoom in and out and look at the surrounds of the opera house:

http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/2580/Australia/New_South_Wales/Sydney/Sydney_Opera_House

DigiFluid
June 15th, 2008, 12:13 PM
I *completely* disagree. The orientation of the bridge buttress is completely wrong and there are no other structures that would suggest the aurora-like temple anywhere near it.

Here is a link to zoom in and out and look at the surrounds of the opera house:

http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/2580/Australia/New_South_Wales/Sydney/Sydney_Opera_House

Of course not, the Temple of Aurora is fictional. It's called artistic license.