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GateWorld
April 10th, 2008, 01:31 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4081.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">SINE QUA NON</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 408</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Zarek assumes the presidency in Roslin's absence, triggering a power struggle within the fleet. Admiral Adama puts the fleet at risk in his search for Laura.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
May 27th, 2008, 04:10 PM
this episode has aired in the UK so i'm opening the thread.

a warning to ALL

this is ONLY for discussion by those that have seen the episodes. Any and ALL countdown or anticipation type posts will be deleted and, if it becomes a problem, I'll happily gag those that clutter this discussion thread up with nonsense, so please keep that kind of stuff to the pre-airing thread

thank you

daniel9
May 27th, 2008, 06:08 PM
might as well move this in here

i dunno why they brought romo back in this ep either. other than to make lee pres. i wonder if romo was the one who did it with caprica 6? and just when did his cat die? im lost. did he get another one like the one he lost?

according to the podcast of the ep where tigh had admiral tags earlier in this season, him becoming admiral=blue about the final cylon. the only person i can think of would be adama lol which isnt good news. since itll mean both the admiral and the commander=cylons. and it would go against rdm saying it wouldnt be one of the main ppl. husker is now allll alone out there. all alone.

athena is back to humming the cylon song . andnatalie is gone. i really thought she was going to last longer. i wonder tho was she really projecting or was that just "God" taking her? perhaps when cylons die they goto a forest and walk to the opera house?

Dusk
May 27th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Wow, aren't things changing?! We have a new President AND a new Admiral in one episode! And both choices are good ones.

Sad to see Natalie go, I much preferred her character than Caprica. Very disappointed in Sharon, she seems to have lost perspective and clarity in executing Natalie, and I had hoped for more than just some brig time as punishment. Adama should have made her stay behind with him as penance.

Romo's return did seem a tad unnecessary, and those feline enthusiasts on here will likely be dismayed to learn that he carries around his dead cat in a gym bag. And his scene at the end with Lee seemed to be a whole lot of fluff and blah, as we yet again see a character so enamored with self-indignation that they project their resentments on others. In this case Romo toys with the idea of taking the life of our presidential hopeful because he will likely make things better for the Fleet and re instill a sense of hope -- a happiness he wishes to deprive humanity of at his own selfish desire. Nice pistol though!

Perhaps the biggest shock of the episode, however, was in learning that Tigh has impregnated Caprica Six!! We had all suspected he was in some form of sexual relationship with the prisoner, but to have delivered her a BABY... and both parents are Cylons!! We had thought this not possible! Yikes! And didn't the Admiral blow steam?! Loved his tussle with Tigh!

And so next episode, we see what was happening on the other side of the coin -- Roslin, Baltar and the Cylon-Colonial tag team take on the Resurrection Hub... here's hoping we finally get to see D'Anna again.

kharn the betrayer
May 28th, 2008, 12:07 AM
i dunno why they brought romo back in this ep either. other than to make lee pres. i wonder if romo was the one who did it with caprica 6? and just when did his cat die? im lost. did he get another one like the one he lost?

the cat we see in this episode wasnt real it was a figment of his imagination

Lee asked why he hadnt fed the cat yet and where it was... now why would he ask where the cat was when it was like right in pretty much plain sight...

oh and Romo is the only one who can see the thing the whole episode

then we have the fact Lee said the cat had been dead for weeks and its quite obvious it hasnt been weeks since the base star went *poof*

Bray
May 28th, 2008, 12:11 AM
Well 8 episodes in and so far....no excitement.

Anyone else praying that all this boring stuff is somehw necessary for something truly awesome to happen.

This season had so much promise but so far it's just been one bitter disappointment after another. The only time that I've even felt a shadow of the excitement of the first 3 seasons was when the Cylon Base Ship jumped into the fleet without the.....urgh what was it's name....you know the sewage ship, and the Galactica rounded on it and was about to fire.

Lady Snow
May 28th, 2008, 12:21 AM
So... Romo projected a cat?

He's totally a Cylon. ;)

---

I was half-very-impressed and half-less-than-impressed with this episode. Things certainly got interesting and tense and I'm always glad to see Tom Zarek onscreen, but it felt a bit clumsy with the pacing and the storylines. I don't know. I'll have to watch it again.

GateofDOOM
May 28th, 2008, 12:47 AM
Well, that was a little, erm, slow.
We only had two episodes with a bit of pace to them and here we're back on the gravy train.

If I was a person in the colonial fleet I would be rioting at the appointment of Saul Tigh. After what he did at the beginning of season two Adama hands him the wheels? The civilian shootings, splintering the fleet etc.
Oh yeah, great choice. I don't care if Adam thinks he's changed, or how dramatic it is to have a Cylon in charge of everything; this kind of news would probably not come as welcome news to the RTF.

So now we have Saul Tigh and Lee Adama shoehorned into their proper positions for the climactic end (of the first half).
I just hope the show gets on with it now.

...Is it a little sick to be hoping for the LQoD days? :P

huntress
May 28th, 2008, 12:57 AM
Well I for one absolutely adored this episode. Yes it was a slow episode again but it was great. Romo Lampkin was in it and the whole episode can be summed up in seven word "All for the love of a woman" I will write a proper review when I am more coherent and after having re-watched it.

Sci-Fi
May 28th, 2008, 01:59 AM
It did appear later on that the cat was just in Romo's mind.

Seems to be a plot device for Zarek not to assume at least, Presidential duties in Roslin's absence. The writers are creating their own political rules if the council 'elects' a new President, while forgetting that Roslin was #43 in line and became President. Roslin at that time wasn't on Adama's 'A' list either.

Somebody will find out about Caprica 6 and Saul sooner or later. A bit odd that Baltar is out of Caprica 6's love life or is she? Head Six must be something else...maybe Count Ilbis?

Overall, not a bad episode. It seems to be a setup for future conflicts in the fleet and may test the remaining survivors and the main characters loyalities and personal beliefs.

pbellosom
May 28th, 2008, 02:39 AM
I liked this ep a lot, I don't mind this sort of political episode because it was still Sci-Fi whereas a lot of the episodes where not much action happened back in season three could just as easily have been set on Earth instead of in space.

So along with Head Baltar and Head Six we now have a Head cat?

I am very interested in the fact that Six is pregnant, any ideas as to how two Cylons are having a child when we were told they couldn't?

Was Natali killed before or after the resurrection hub was destroyed? If it was before then there's still hope for her <crosses fingers>.

I am really looking forward to next weeks one, it will be interesting to see how the Cylons got the humans to fight alongside them even after they were "kidnapped."

Lady Snow
May 28th, 2008, 03:00 AM
Seems to be a plot device for Zarek not to assume at least, Presidential duties in Roslin's absence. The writers are creating their own political rules if the council 'elects' a new President, while forgetting that Roslin was #43 in line and became President. Roslin at that time wasn't on Adama's 'A' list either.

The Quorum wasn't intact in the Miniseries, so we have no way of knowing what they could have been able to do regarding appointing a president. And it's not really different from their "vote of no confidence" they were thinking about bringing against Roslin last episode.



I am really looking forward to next weeks one, it will be interesting to see how the Cylons got the humans to fight alongside them even after they were "kidnapped."

I thought the Viper that Racetrack and Skulls found was empty; i.e. there was no one flying it, so it could have been debris from the destroyed basestar. There's no evidence (yet) that the Colonials fought alongside the Cylons.



...Is it a little sick to be hoping for the LQoD days? :P

No. It's a lot sick, you sicko. :p

AeronPrometheus
May 28th, 2008, 06:57 AM
Slow episode but important none the less, the only reason the series is slowing down now is to set the stage. This felt like a prelude to the upcoming episode which will be the real follow up to Guess what's coming to dinner.

One thing felt amiss though, why didn't we hear Gaeda singing during the two ER sequences? Asleep?


Was Natali killed before or after the resurrection hub was destroyed? If it was before then there's still hope for her <crosses fingers>.

Good point, that's one way to transfer a character from one location to the other, isn't it?

I find it ironic that during everything Tigh is going through his judgment is actually seemingly solid. He's more a commander now that he was before so why the hell did Adama go after him for getting some... relief? Half of Adama's crew has been screwing Cylons it seems, why would this be any different? Why mess with something that seems to be keeping Tigh on the level even if only to make people think that there's nothing wrong?

Funny scene when Adama said "you've been going through things I can't even begin to imagine" and Tigh's expression is "You ain't just whistling Dixie!". Why does that old fart get all the priceless moments these days?

Also is it possible that conception between two Cylons (Tigh/Six) is due to Tigh being one of the final five? The standard models cannot copulate but perhaps the originals can?

Legionnaire
May 28th, 2008, 07:39 AM
We know Cylon women can have children and we know members of the final five can help conceive, since Chief has already produced a kid, so I don't think Tigh and 6 is such a stretch, other than the whole "cylons can't have children together" deal, but as someone said, the Final Five are "different" from the other models, so I'm sure the same rules don't apply. And it seems to me that Tigh, if he's done this, was acting out of his love for Ellen, not 6, since he consistently sees her in 6's face.

Also, I believe Natalie is dead and gone because I seem to recall her saying earlier on the baseship, before it jumped to Galactica, that they were too far away from any resurrection ship or hub to come back, thus when she shot New Caprica 6 she was dead dead.

Pharaoh Atem
May 28th, 2008, 10:02 AM
Great ep

lee become president of the colonies

Lee “I, Leland Joseph Adama, do now avow and affirm.”
Priest: “That I take the office of the President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol without any moral reservation or mental evasion.”
Lee: “That I take the office of President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol without any moral reservation or mental evasion.”
Priest: “That I will protect and defend the articles of colonization.”
Lee: “That I will protect and defend the articles of colonization.”
Priest: “With every fiber of my being.”
Lee: “With every fiber of my being.”
Priest: Congratulations, Mr. President.

WOOT!!!!







bill gives up his command and gives saul the rank of admiral

we get romo and jake the dog back all in one ep :D


loved that bill used husker at the end of the ep ....felt like watching razor again. i always thought lee's name was just lee ....kinda funny to hear his say "Leland Joseph Adama" :D

can't wait for "the hub" and seeing saul in command :D:D

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 28th, 2008, 10:55 AM
So... Romo projected a cat?

He's totally a Cylon. ;)

I actually just think, because of what he lost in the bombing of the 12 colonies, that he's gone a bit doo-la-li, which would explain why he's talking to an invisible cat whilst jotting down stuff on a white board.

I really liked this episode. I love Lampkin. Not too sure about Saul Jr inside Six though. We'll see how it plays out.

nckzvnbr
May 28th, 2008, 12:00 PM
Six's pregnancy at this point does nothing to further the story other than to show the viewer that it is possible for Cylon species biological procreation, or at least between a SS and FF. More than anything I think that this plot device is to prepare the viewer for something to come. It may lead the viewer to question whether or not Helo, or even Cally, could be the last Cylon.

One thing I noticed about the Tigh/Six relationship was that it seems Six loves Tigh, and Tigh loves the Ellen that appears in Six. Six's words to Tigh sounded very loving and affectionate, even more so than when she talked with Baltar.

Romo Lampkin did not make any sense in this episode compared to the three he had been in. His whole tirade with pretending to intend to shoot Lee was confusing. Lee probably would have accepted the position anyway. I was expecting a better and more powerful use of Romo. To say the least, I was dissapointed with how they used Romo in this episode. Romo seems to be falling apart, something that Mark Shepard did very well. One observation about Lee by Romo I found enjoyable was that everything Lee had received in life had been handed to him, which would appear to be true. Lee then is as much a manipulator as Lampkin in that he gets people to do what he wants by making them think it was their idea. But whereas Romo is consciously manipulative, I think Lee does it unconsciously.

A question about the hub. What if the hub is in range but not a resurrection ship. Would a cylon consciousness downloaded be automatically boxed or would the conciousness cease to exist. I think a safety measure would be that the consciousness would be boxed automatically. If this is true, then Natalie may have a chance of being resurrected, unless the Hub was destroyed. I found it interesting that instead of the Ship (which Laura dreamed about) or the Opera House (which D'Anna dreamed about while being downloaded), Natalie dreamed/projected/death experience about a forest. Further, there was something in that forest that she reached out to, which is similar to the three that was killed aboard the basestar by the crazy centurion.

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 28th, 2008, 12:18 PM
Six's pregnancy at this point does nothing to further the story other than to show the viewer that it is possible for Cylon species biological procreation, or at least between a SS and FF. More than anything I think that this plot device is to prepare the viewer for something to come. It may lead the viewer to question whether or not Helo, or even Cally, could be the last Cylon.

One thing I noticed about the Tigh/Six relationship was that it seems Six loves Tigh, and Tigh loves the Ellen that appears in Six. Six's words to Tigh sounded very loving and affectionate, even more so than when she talked with Baltar.


I have to disagree with the Six loving Saul bit. She sounded like she was manipulating him because she knew that he thought she was someone else and she was using that to her advantage.

Pharaoh Atem
May 28th, 2008, 01:54 PM
oh and i would like to say how hot racetrack was during the EVA :D

Pic
May 28th, 2008, 02:11 PM
I'm (unforutnately) not in the UK. But I couldn't resist, and I'm not saying anything more...


I'm unclear why Natalie's dead (or if, rather) - isn't she in the 'Last Supper' photo? I was so sure she wasn't going to die. Hmm...

Romo and Head!Cat - how bizarre. Was Lee simply playing Romo or did Lee really not think of himself for the presidency? I'm thinking he was strategizing for himself all along, but not sure how I feel about that.

Caprica6 is pregnant but are we sure Tigh's the dad? He seemed shocked and perhaps he couldn't deny it because he doesn't know what he does when he's with her. She looks all Ellen-like and he gets mind-frakked (but does he get physically frakked, I dunno). I could see this as a misdirection. How long ago was Caprica6 on the basestar with Baltar? I'm not saying it's not Tigh, I'm just not sure I'm ready to jump to that conclusion yet.

I love racetrack!! If she's the final cylon I'll.... I don't know... kick something maybe. And throw a childish tantrum. I was so worried that they'd kill her off when she got out of the raptor.

nckzvnbr
May 28th, 2008, 02:37 PM
It is never explicitly stated that Saul is the father of the child Six is carrying. However, if the recording instruments and gaurds typically obvserve the prisoner at all times other than when Saul is in there, then it is more probable than not that Saul is the father. Adama is smarter than to make baseless accusations and if one of the Marine gaurds was messing around with Six it would have been scuttlebut on the ship. Further, Six was with the fleet during the two months that Kara was gone and the 50 some days the Demetrius was gone. For Baltar to be the father, it would have to be an extremely long gestation period. The most reasonable inference at this point is that Saul is the father. Like I have mentioned above, I think the fact that FF can cause pregnancy in a SS is more important to prepare us for something later. Essentially so that it will be easier for the viewer to accept an idea that has some foundation rather than a "jump the shark" moment."

I also wonder if the fact that Natalie died, or at least she appears to have done thus, means that every person to the left of Six (red dress) (left from viewer's perspective) in the "Last Supper" photo is going to die. Natalie died, we assume Roslin will die.

Pharaoh Atem
May 28th, 2008, 03:37 PM
i think i caught a mistake

after lee is talking to zarek about about a search committee you wear a man asking zarek

"is the government in danger" he says "well let's face facts jim, the past 5 YEARS isn't a true government but a agreement with a military strong man and a political strong women.

the problem is "5 years"

the fleet at last check it only had been 2 and a half years since the attacks

AeronPrometheus
May 28th, 2008, 05:03 PM
oh and i would like to say how hot racetrack was during the EVA :D

I seriously thought she was going to bite it. This is how the writers surprise us now, we're steeled to the fact that half the cast is going to die so they confuse us by avoiding a perfect opportunity to take someone out. :P

And we learned the black dude's call sign. Skulls.

Cree
May 28th, 2008, 05:47 PM
what is this last supper picture people are going on about?

this episode was mad, so many changes!
Im actually gutted that they killed natalie.. lets hope she isnt fully dead!

Shipperahoy
May 28th, 2008, 07:50 PM
The most important thing about this episode...Leland? LELAND?! Seriously? Have they mentioned that before? How did I miss that? No wonder he goes by Lee. What was Adama thinking?

Garbo
May 28th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Loved it although the lack of Starbuck was not cool.

Adama and Saul fighting- I nearly died of love.

Natalie dying- not cool

Adama loves Laura- let's all say it... AW!

Adama risking everyone for his love for Laura- I may be a total A/R shipper, but uh... I wonder if he's taking chamalla right now or Laura's just awesome in the rack, one or the other

Caprica6 pregnant- Going with the Adama risking everything and everyone for Laura, it's turning into Days of our Galactica

Adama said something akin to "You found out a lot about yourself" and Saul's face toward the camera was priceless!

I had no idea that Bill could get hotter and sexier continuously through one episode. Doesn't that nominate him for some award? Like the Academy of "I'm frakkin Bill Sexy Adama"?

End shot brought the best of shipper in me. Can't help it and am slightly ashamed.

Over all a great episode!

nckzvnbr
May 28th, 2008, 11:52 PM
Well I think Adama was put in a position where he had two choices: 1. leave the rendezvous point and probably never see Laura again because it would be likely she would already be dead from her cancer; or 2. go find her so that they could at least spend the remaining moments of her life together. Never seeing someone you care about ever again is a pretty powerful motivator. In light of his attachment to Rosland, I think his choice is understandable.

Pharaoh Atem
May 29th, 2008, 02:06 AM
so who is saul's XO???

im hoping Helo :)

Pic
May 29th, 2008, 04:29 AM
so who is saul's XO???

im hoping Helo :)

I think he's on the basestar, isn't he?

Pic
May 29th, 2008, 04:34 AM
I also wonder if the fact that Natalie died, or at least she appears to have done thus, means that every person to the left of Six (red dress) (left from viewer's perspective) in the "Last Supper" photo is going to die. Natalie died, we assume Roslin will die.

ACK!!
I hadn't thought of this, but...
ACK!!

Of course, EJO mentioned that it's like everyone dies - or something like that. Oh, I'm not going to like this, am I?

Except Baltar, I'm good with him dead. I'm not liking his storyline and I'm glad he wasn't in this episode. I hope RDM pulls a rabbit out of him.. erm.. hat (?)... for Baltar's story, but for now I think that plot stinks.
Baltar --- To the airlock!
You know Roslin should've done it...;)

Cree
May 29th, 2008, 04:43 AM
yeah helo is on the basestar, im thinking starbuck or dualla :D

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 29th, 2008, 04:46 AM
i think i caught a mistake

after lee is talking to zarek about about a search committee you wear a man asking zarek

"is the government in danger" he says "well let's face facts jim, the past 5 YEARS isn't a true government but a agreement with a military strong man and a political strong women.

the problem is "5 years"

the fleet at last check it only had been 2 and a half years since the attacks

I thought it was at least three or four, counting the one year on new caprica and the months that followed.

Garbo
May 29th, 2008, 06:28 AM
Well I think Adama was put in a position where he had two choices: 1. leave the rendezvous point and probably never see Laura again because it would be likely she would already be dead from her cancer; or 2. go find her so that they could at least spend the remaining moments of her life together. Never seeing someone you care about ever again is a pretty powerful motivator. In light of his attachment to Rosland, I think his choice is understandable.

I agree, but I was just sort of shocked (especially since they have been denying their feelings and now this). RDM is going all cheesepuff on us; I love it, but I was just sort of shocked.

talyn2k1
May 29th, 2008, 09:42 AM
yeah helo is on the basestar, im thinking starbuck or dualla :D

I'm hoping for Gaeta with a swanky new leg.

rarocks24
May 29th, 2008, 10:15 AM
i think i caught a mistake

after lee is talking to zarek about about a search committee you wear a man asking zarek

"is the government in danger" he says "well let's face facts jim, the past 5 YEARS isn't a true government but a agreement with a military strong man and a political strong women.

the problem is "5 years"

the fleet at last check it only had been 2 and a half years since the attacks

2 years of travelling, then the time on New Caprica (with the time jump), followed by another year and a half of travelling? 2 + 1 + 1 + .5 = 4.5 years...

so...

AeronPrometheus
May 29th, 2008, 12:27 PM
so who is saul's XO???

im hoping Helo :)

Gaeta, get him back on his fee-- I mean foot. :)

Pharaoh Atem
May 29th, 2008, 01:43 PM
feelix could be a possibility as XO but i really don't think he's mentally ready to just jump back into duty.

starbuck is the CAG right now due to help being gone

my choice would be Dee she was XO on pegasus during new caprica

Lady Snow
May 29th, 2008, 02:01 PM
starbuck is the CAG right now due to help being gone

my choice would be Dee she was XO on pegasus during new caprica

Bingo. That's entirely my guess, unless they bring up someone from Pegasus (Hoshi, anyone? ;) )

---


Adama said something akin to "You found out a lot about yourself" and Saul's face toward the camera was priceless!


Entirely agreed. :D

---


The most important thing about this episode...Leland? LELAND?! Seriously? Have they mentioned that before? How did I miss that? No wonder he goes by Lee. What was Adama thinking?

FOR REALS, YO!!!111!eleventyone!!11

Sorry. I just get a bit worked up. (Though I must admit to being a fan of the Red Unbuttoned Shirt o' Porn our dear Leland had on...)

---


It is never explicitly stated that Saul is the father of the child Six is carrying. However, if the recording instruments and gaurds typically obvserve the prisoner at all times other than when Saul is in there, then it is more probable than not that Saul is the father.

I really hope Saul isn't the father. It feels completely out of character, even if he is seeing Ellen. I mean, he and Ellen never had kids - why start now? I'm going to cross my fingers and hope it's Baltar.

Or maybe she's the virgin Mary. Whatever. I don't care who the father is as long as it's not Saul.

Pharaoh Atem
May 29th, 2008, 02:04 PM
Bingo. That's entirely my guess, unless they bring up someone from Pegasus (Hoshi, anyone? ;) )



i would freak out if it was hoshi :D that would be cool :D

ToasterOnFire
May 29th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Is the UK going to air next week's ep early too? And the midseason finale?

Something's fishy about Romo, and I'm not just talking about him seeing dead cats (!).

Shut UP, Leland.

Damn, was that whole ep dedicated to A/R shippers or what? :D

Pharaoh Atem
May 29th, 2008, 02:42 PM
Is the UK going to air next week's ep early too? And the midseason finale?

Something's fishy about Romo, and I'm not just talking about him seeing dead cats (!).

Shut UP, Leland.

Damn, was that whole ep dedicated to A/R shippers or what? :D

and it's about time

BSG has turned me into a shipper ( points to sig"

Garbo
May 29th, 2008, 08:40 PM
and it's about time

BSG has turned me into a shipper ( points to sig"

Frak yeah! I've read spoilers for "The Hub" so that might royally outdo Sine Qua Non. We need more romances like this one (and less of the "OMGZ I like you let's jump into bed!").

By the way, I loved that Adama knew the Latin translation for Sine Qua Non. Gives me hope for the human race. :D Maybe we'll go backwards, become polytheistic, AND embrace the old customs of classical education. *shuts down nerdy self*

Romo is a fruitcake.

nckzvnbr
May 29th, 2008, 09:01 PM
According to the Skyone listings online I have read, the next two episodes of BSG will be aired earlier than in North America.

AeronPrometheus
May 30th, 2008, 12:33 AM
According to the Skyone listings online I have read, the next two episodes of BSG will be aired earlier than in North America.

That settles it, I'm moving to England. :cool:

Pic
May 30th, 2008, 05:03 AM
According to the Skyone listings online I have read, the next two episodes of BSG will be aired earlier than in North America.

Apparently that has changed.

http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2308881&st=0&p=5284209&#entry5284209

Don't move yet.

SoulReaver
May 30th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Sad to see Natalie go, I much preferred her character than Caprica. Very disappointed in SharonI agree, Sharon screwed up big time on this. ok so she had visions & hallucinations - so what, that ain't an excuse for executing an unarmed person even if they're the "enemy" - Adama was right in that she betrayed his trust. Sharon knew full well that Nathalie would stay dead (no resship nearby at least as far as she knew & as far as we know, + damaged basestar so no downloading there either)

a pity about Nathalie, though I'll also admit I never saw in her more than some sort of "Caprica6 stand-in"
they'd better not kill off Cap6 :jonas13:



kinda disappointed in Lampkin too - he lost his only tether to a past he hopelessly clings to, so he wants to doom the rest of mankind along with him ? bad move there m8. selfishness at its finest. must be the lawyer in him I guess :/



good to see Bill & Saul's little quarrel didn't damage their friendship in any way, although with hindsight I guess that was foreseeable. I'd wager that even if (and when) Adama gets to find out about his friend's true origins this will change little if anything, although he might take offense at the fact that Tigh didn't confide in him (assuming he never does later on)



go go Lee, you're the best ! :cool:



and last but not least...Jake is alive & well :sheppardanime21: :sheppardanime21:

Lampkin had better take good care of the little fellow :daniel09:



edit> one thing I don't get - the colonials know latin ? :tealcanime49:
now the fact that they spoke or appeared to speak english could be interpreted in a way that didn't defy credibility - for example it was just some sort of "dubbing" from a non-terran language (kobolian or whatever) into english, much like in the Star Wars universe
but in having Lampkin citing & Adama translate a piece of latin the writers were quite categorical : they do indeed speak latin, the same latin spoken back on earth. so...what the bloody hell ? :tealcanime49:

P-90_177
May 30th, 2008, 02:33 PM
Wow. only just got to see this and it was a fantastic ep. Things just keep getting better. I guess I was wrong about Lee becoming Vice-President but my will he make one hell of a President. Roslin may get a shock when she gets back. Will she be pleased for Lee or will she be a bit miffed that someone stole her posistion. Cos something tells me that the fleet will end up not really wanting to let Mister Adama leave that spot.

Romo is back! Yay! He was once again awesome. I felt so sorry for him in the end though. But also YAY FOR JAKE! I love that dog! I was actually hoping Apollo was going to keep him when we saw him but it's good for Lampkin. But now a question remains. Was Romo Projecting the cat? Or was he just cukoo? I actually find myself hoping he's a cylon now that my Zarek being a cylon president seems to be shot out of the Window.

But now we have Cylon in command of the fleet. Admiral Tigh. I never thought I'd see the day. But Tigh is awesome so I'm quite pleased for him. I think Lee will keep him in check if he does something a bit mad. Though 6 being preggers is an interesting turn of events. Wonder how that's being dealt with. AND, since in season 1 the cylons felt that the thing that was missing to stop cylons from having children is love, does that mean Saul is in love with 6 like she was trying to get him to admit?

Pharaoh Atem
May 30th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Wow. only just got to see this and it was a fantastic ep. Things just keep getting better. I guess I was wrong about Lee becoming Vice-President but my will he make one hell of a President. Roslin may get a shock when she gets back. Will she be pleased for Lee or will she be a bit miffed that someone stole her posistion. Cos something tells me that the fleet will end up not really wanting to let Mister Adama leave that spot.



i too am happy with lee becoming president .....he really is a bright light in a dark and possibility never ending tunnel

new thinking,youth and lee has always had a good sense of right and wrong. plus the fleet loves him military and civilians :)

DigiFluid
May 30th, 2008, 06:47 PM
I wasn't terribly impressed :/

The episode jumped around far too much, the pacing was all off, Lampkin was bizarrely wedged into the episode....really the whole thing felt awkwardly done. After GWCTD, I had very high anticipation for SQN but was tremendously let down.

Lee's selection as President was staggeringly predictable right from the get-go of this episode, which is really not pleasant in a BSG episode. Adama's departure was unexpected in a bad way. The sine qua non concept was a nice idea but it wasn't really explored very well....at all.

I honestly can't remember the last time a BSG episode has disappointed the way this one did (oh right, The Woman King). Maybe it'll get the 'Pegasus'/'Unfinished Business' treatment on the DVD release and it'll be halfway decent. Maybe.

Hope next week is better.

tgmd
May 30th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Wait wait wait...

Apollo's first name is Leeland?

Skydiver
May 30th, 2008, 06:58 PM
poor guy

Trek_Girl42
May 30th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Gaeta, get him back on his fee-- I mean foot. :):lol: Then that would really make it the pirate ship Galactica. :D


This episode made me fill with giddy happiness. Seriously awesome stuff, and holy crap they continue to shake up the status quo on this show! Never expected to see Adama step down! Loved that he used his callsign in the Raptor- bought time we saw him flying! :)

ADAMA AND TIGH IN A FISTFIGHT! "You know how many times I've had to repair this?" LOL! :D

This ep was all about the long running (b)romance between Tigh and Adama and Adama and Laura, and it's hard to say which one I liked more. :zelenka25:

And then there was the Romo thing, the head!cat was really creepy and sad and I love it. Poor Romo. I adored the kitty, and I wanted him back.....but not in a gym bag. I don't like dogs, but I'll admit that it was nice to see Jake back- that he wasn't forgotten. And hopefully Romo will be a little less crazy. The room with the teeny tiny window made me laugh.

Also pretty sweet to see the perspective of the civilian people- to see Galactica jump away from the window of Colonial One, that was a great visual. This show still manages to find some pretty sweet firsts, and of course that end scene of sitting in the raptor putting on his glasses and reading as the camera pulled back was absolutely beautiful.

I want next week. Now already. :P


And after this whole Caprica Six thing, Helo has moved onto my Cylon Hit List.....Who'd have thought? :eek:

nckzvnbr
May 30th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Is Ander's with the basester?

marielabbott
May 30th, 2008, 07:56 PM
A solid episode. :D

Lots of nice moments focusing on Adama's relationship to Roslin. I never thought I'd see him step down, but Roslin is a great motivator. :p

Lee (Leeland?!) as president was an outcome I was expecting since Lee said no to Zarek's question early in the episode. It looks like his political career is finally taking off now.

Great to see Romo, and even though he was rather off his rocker, I liked it. He was so masterfully manipulative previously that he hardly seemed human; here we see his clever mind twisting about, trying to make sense of his tragic past. And the death of his poor cat--he really carried it around for weeks in a tote bag? Didn't other people smell it? :S

So, um, it's fairly certain that Saul and Caprica 6...yuck. :S And a major reveal that she is pregnant. I too think it's possible because he's a "different" type of cylon, being a final 5. I was kind of surprised that Adama chose to leave him in charge so soon after giving him that speech about judgement, but at the same time it is a testament to Adama's trust, and the strength of their friendship. And he certainly is a different man than the last time he was in charge. :p

Next week's ep looks promising. :D

CKO
May 30th, 2008, 08:07 PM
poor Lee

Leland... *snickers* Joseph Adama

im still snickerin w/ the Leland thing..

yea i so think that Bill is so head over heals with Laura... the poor man just needs to admit it to her

Trek_Girl42
May 30th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Didn't other people smell it? :SThank you! Dead cat, gotta be stinky. I could imagine that working on a civilian ship which might potentially be smelly. But he carried to colonial one several times and Lee(land) didn't notice or say anything? Maybe he was just being polite..... :P
Leland... *snickers* Joseph Adama

im still snickerin w/ the Leland thing..Hehe. Giggles abound with this one. I image the fan art with thought bubbles appearing above his and Adama's heads in that scene will start rolling in soon..... :P

nckzvnbr
May 30th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Maybe Romo just febreezed the hell out of his bag?

nckzvnbr
May 30th, 2008, 09:42 PM
That settles it, I'm moving to England. :cool:

Sorry, but today they announced they were not going to air either episode on the earlier dates.

blazertrek50
May 30th, 2008, 11:25 PM
Is Ander's with the basester?

Yes he is and yes that is who Deeanna (the unboxed 3) is talking to in the coming attractions even though we do not see him, when she says you probably don't know that you are one of the final five....

Chev's Ron
May 31st, 2008, 12:01 AM
I am very interested in the fact that Six is pregnant, any ideas as to how two Cylons are having a child when we were told they couldn't?

"

Now we know that cylons can have children with humans, The final five can have children with humans, and cylons can have children with the final five.

Well all we need is a normal cylon-cylon baby to complete the set. :).

In all serious, I adored the episode, Romo's change in charactor is a shock for me, but it still makes since.

I know the fleet will be even more pissed when they learn their new commander is a cylon. They hated tigh before...

Well, I hope that Athena stays loyal to the colonials.

Still, I am left with a big "wow" and very impressed with the episode. My favorite scene is the Tigh-Adama brawl, just like old friends ;).

My only complant is that the episode seemed disjointed in places, however every "joint" was candy in itself, so I must put this in the top five episodes I have seen so far in the series.




Caprica6 is pregnant but are we sure Tigh's the dad? I'm not saying it's not Tigh, I'm just not sure I'm ready to jump to that conclusion yet.



Well, the doctor would obviously see Six in her trimester before, as the two were together Months AGO, and she would be showing some belly... It has to be Tigh, because RDM hasn't shown us any scenes of Baltar physically going to 6, also, The doc sounded in his speech that he found Saul's DNA inside Six.

InterestingMonster
May 31st, 2008, 04:30 AM
Maybe Romo just febreezed the hell out of his bag?

LOL...that's hilarious!

peragrin
May 31st, 2008, 04:34 AM
yes Anders is on the Basestar, In fact I am fairly confident that the 3 is talking about him in the preview for next week.

Tigh is once again in charge of the fleet, but since the final five know the way to earth does that mean Tigh will lead the fleet there?

Husker is back, I am glad he saw reason to stay behind. The Galactica randomly jumping away was also cool. I like how the hub appears to be destroyed But you don't hear anything about what happened.

My only real question is how can the hybrids "know" where the Hub is only after it jumps? I wonder if there is a unique FTL jump signature that the hybrid mind can follow. Possibly something to do with the resurrection process?

Also note while Tigh is in charge of the military Lee is at least in charge of Tigh. Something that wasn't there before.

As For Romo performance with the Gun i think he was honestly trying to make sure Lee wasn't purposely setting himself up to become the leader. The lead up was Romo annoyed that it appeared that Lee was trying to set himself up as president without appearing to do so. The gun was to gauge lee's reaction to that idea. A Perfect Romo Performance.

GateDragon
May 31st, 2008, 04:53 AM
boy dee must me kicking herself ....she could have been married to the president of the 12 colonies :p

SoulReaver
May 31st, 2008, 06:52 AM
Gaeta, get him back on his fee-- I mean foot. :)yeah, poor guy

sure wouldn't wanna be in his shoe :(

Charon
May 31st, 2008, 07:35 AM
i too am happy with lee becoming president .....he really is a bright light in a dark and possibility never ending tunnel

new thinking,youth and lee has always had a good sense of right and wrong. plus the fleet loves him military and civilians :)

A hesitant light maybe, Lee's virtue's compel him to act even if he does not know what to do; progress for the sake of progress. Will he overcome his "living in dad's shadow" complex at the cost of the fleet? One thing is for sure, there are more stumbling blocks to come. :S

Jumper_One
May 31st, 2008, 09:11 AM
I really enjoyed this ep. it was nice to see Romo again, not sure about his cat though :S I thought Lee was becoming Vice-President, guess those spoilers were wrong. their search for Roslin and pregnant 6 leads to the highlight of this ep imo: the fight between Adama and Tigh. then the Admiral puts him in charge and stays behind while the fleet jumps aways. wow! I never would've suspected this. the shippers must be very happy :P what else? oh yeah Nathalie dies and Athena ends up being thrown in the brig. I hope the next two eps will be as exciting as this one

Trek_Girl42
May 31st, 2008, 11:03 AM
As For Romo performance with the Gun i think he was honestly trying to make sure Lee wasn't purposely setting himself up to become the leader. The lead up was Romo annoyed that it appeared that Lee was trying to set himself up as president without appearing to do so. The gun was to gauge lee's reaction to that idea. A Perfect Romo Performance.That's exactly what I thought (though there was definitely a mix of crazy in there- I can't get that poor cat out of my head!), I have to wonder if there was a following scene that had to be cut that made this a little clearer, or whether the intent was to make it ambiguous.

SoulReaver
May 31st, 2008, 11:31 AM
As For Romo performance with the Gun i think he was honestly trying to make sure Lee wasn't purposely setting himself up to become the leader. The lead up was Romo annoyed that it appeared that Lee was trying to set himself up as president without appearing to do so. The gun was to gauge lee's reaction to that idea. A Perfect Romo Performance.that's what I thought at first ( Romo tells Lee he wants to kill him for being a "beacon of hope" -> then Lee proves that he is indeed a beacon of hope -> then Romo "spares" him for the very reason for which he wanted to kill him in the 1st place. so a test appeared to be the only logical explanation) : he pretended to be pissed

but the thing is Romo really did appear sincere when he said he sought mankind's downfall. plus the fact that his cat was killed. plus the fact that he valued that cat to such extent that he continued imagining/projecting it long after it was dead => genuine reasons to be pissed

so all in all...I dunno, all of this was ambiguous at best
now if for example there had been an extra scene where it was shown that the gun wasn't loaded, things would've been a lot clearer..

peragrin
May 31st, 2008, 03:02 PM
that's what I thought at first ( Romo tells Lee he wants to kill him for being a "beacon of hope" -> then Lee proves that he is indeed a beacon of hope -> then Romo "spares" him for the very reason for which he wanted to kill him in the 1st place. so a test appeared to be the only logical explanation) : he pretended to be pissed

but the thing is Romo really did appear sincere when he said he sought mankind's downfall. plus the fact that his cat was killed. plus the fact that he valued that cat to such extent that he continued imagining/projecting it long after it was dead => genuine reasons to be pissed

so all in all...I dunno, all of this was ambiguous at best
now if for example there had been an extra scene where it was shown that the gun wasn't loaded, things would've been a lot clearer..Actually I think Romo was really pissed, he doesn't like being used and thought at first Lee was using Romo to become president. When it didn't appear to be true he changed his mind.

PRP, I just hope we get some more as he is always confusing yet fun to watch.

SoulReaver
May 31st, 2008, 03:17 PM
Actually I think Romo was really pissed, he doesn't like being used and thought at first Lee was using Romo to become president. When it didn't appear to be true he changed his mind.so basically the real reason was that he suspected Lee of planning this all along, and so he stated a false reason instead (about his cat, beacons, hope & all the rest) so as to test Lee and (dis)confirm those suspicions ? http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/666%20.gif

AeronPrometheus
May 31st, 2008, 11:53 PM
so all in all...I dunno, all of this was ambiguous at best
now if for example there had been an extra scene where it was shown that the gun wasn't loaded, things would've been a lot clearer..

He should've left the gun behind on Lee's desk much like he left the cane in the hallway. Then lee pops it open and sees that the firing mechanism is frakked and the gun never would have worked.

BTW, for those interested, the gun Romo used is pretty old. It was seen in the movie Bad Boys at the very end. It's called a COP 357 Derringer, designed by a group in California for off-duty police officers (Compact Off-Duty Police). The company that made these is now defunct but the gun turns up at auctions from time to time. Usually going for $500 to $600 US dollars.

"The COP has an interesting and unusual firing mechanism. The weapon has an internal hammer and the pistol has one firing pin for each barrel. As the trigger is pulled, an internal ratchet is actuated that lines up to a cocking hammer and one of the four firing pins. After the trigger has traveled to the end of its stroke, the internal hammer is released, exerting force on the ratchet which in turn pushes one of the firing pins forward, igniting the primer, and firing the bullet. Each subsequent pull of the trigger causes the ratchet to line up with the next firing pin in the sequence and firing the bullet in that chamber, until the gun is out of ammunition or the shooter stops pulling the trigger.

The weapon is made entirely of Semi-matte stainless steel, except for the grips, which are made of checkered wood. It is very tough and is relatively heavy at 28 ounces unloaded. It is fairly blocky which makes it harder to conceal than many two barrel derringers are."

Aeron

Briangate78
June 1st, 2008, 10:01 AM
This episode was an utter mess. So now Lee is president? Give me a fraking break. I hate politics in real life. Why I have to deal with it on a SCI FI show just drives me crazy. Tigh impregnates a Cylon ,attacks the admiral, and is now acting Commander? So first Starbuck goes on a gutsy mission and now Adama? It just seems the the producers took all the storylines and characters, put it into a launcher and "Boom" this is Season 4. :S Looks like Adama got the "I'm going crazy and don't know how to handle the situation" plot for this episode. :S They need to start to tie up those loose ends. I fear that there are way too many now, and will 12 eps be enough to tie them all up? Heck if this was not the last season I'd say, ok we have some new developments, cool, but it is the final season.

acce
June 1st, 2008, 11:24 AM
There is only one possible reason why Caprica-6 is pregnant: ''Immaculate Conception''.
She is to give birth to the cylon messiah! It is the will of the Cylon god! Vade Retro Humanus In nomine Cylon Deus!

dec55
June 1st, 2008, 12:43 PM
Loved that Athena and Hera are back together.

Just love Grace Park ...and the little girl that plays Hera is just
adorable.

Mongoletsi
June 1st, 2008, 01:22 PM
Head!Cat
Just don't.

Pic
June 1st, 2008, 02:19 PM
Just don't.

What? You no like Head!Cat?
Maybe Head!Cat is the final cylon... LOL!

meow ;)

Trek_Girl42
June 1st, 2008, 02:44 PM
What? You no like Head!Cat?
Maybe Head!Cat is the final cylon... LOL!

meow ;)Wasn't his name Lance? And no, head!cat is the cylon god. :D

happyclam
June 1st, 2008, 04:02 PM
That's exactly what I thought (though there was definitely a mix of crazy in there- I can't get that poor cat out of my head!), I have to wonder if there was a following scene that had to be cut that made this a little clearer, or whether the intent was to make it ambiguous.

So what we have here is all the signs of a smelly cat... subtle clues that the 5th Cylon is most likely Phoebe Boufay... ;)

wwlh
June 1st, 2008, 04:15 PM
I feel a little foolish asking about this since I jumped in here hoping to see someone else mention it....

OK - just in case I turn out to be on to something...

If the "dying leader" is supposed to "understand the truth of the Opera House"...and 6 is a contender for the title of "dying leader" - it seemed to me that her vision on the operating table points to the Doctor (Cottle..Coddle - not sure of the spelling) being the final Cylon.

yes? no? maybe?

Trek_Girl42
June 1st, 2008, 04:21 PM
I feel a little foolish asking about this since I jumped in here hoping to see someone else mention it....

OK - just in case I turn out to be on to something...

If the "dying leader" is supposed to "understand the truth of the Opera House"...and 6 is a contender for the title of "dying leader" - it seemed to me that her vision on the operating table points to the Doctor (Cottle..Coddle - not sure of the spelling) being the final Cylon.

yes? no? maybe?
Hah! I have to admit to having a"Cottle could be the cylon!" moment when she reached up to him. :P

GateDragon
June 1st, 2008, 04:29 PM
I feel a little foolish asking about this since I jumped in here hoping to see someone else mention it....

OK - just in case I turn out to be on to something...

If the "dying leader" is supposed to "understand the truth of the Opera House"...and 6 is a contender for the title of "dying leader" - it seemed to me that her vision on the operating table points to the Doctor (Cottle..Coddle - not sure of the spelling) being the final Cylon.

yes? no? maybe?

she was just projecting a happy environment to try to advod the pain

i don't think Natalie's death had anything to do with the opera house

Joben
June 1st, 2008, 06:16 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a cat person but those scenes with the cat in it when you watch it again are really sad :(

the fifth man
June 1st, 2008, 06:54 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a cat person but those scenes with the cat in it when you watch it again are really sad :(

I would definitely agree with that.

Trek_Girl42
June 1st, 2008, 08:21 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a cat person but those scenes with the cat in it when you watch it again are really sad :(Me too. My cat was in the room as well as I rewatched, and that bit where it looks up mournfully at Romo..... :S

kharn the betrayer
June 2nd, 2008, 08:09 AM
Me too. My cat was in the room as well as I rewatched, and that bit where it looks up mournfully at Romo..... :S

poor Kitty im an animal person as well ;_;

Pepermint Jaffa
June 2nd, 2008, 08:27 AM
This episode was an utter mess. So now Lee is president? Give me a fraking break. I hate politics in real life. Why I have to deal with it on a SCI FI show just drives me crazy. Tigh impregnates a Cylon ,attacks the admiral, and is now acting Commander?

I agree, unfortunately. This episode felt more like a bad soap opera.

Pepermint Jaffa
June 2nd, 2008, 08:31 AM
As For Romo performance with the Gun i think he was honestly trying to make sure Lee wasn't purposely setting himself up to become the leader. The lead up was Romo annoyed that it appeared that Lee was trying to set himself up as president without appearing to do so. The gun was to gauge lee's reaction to that idea. A Perfect Romo Performance.

So the dead cat was just part of the performance? If it was just a performance, they wouldn't have shown Romo "seeing" a cat that wasn't really there.

Briangate78
June 2nd, 2008, 08:45 AM
I agree, unfortunately. This episode felt more like a bad soap opera.

This episode went to the dogs, literally. At least Jake the dog survived. :lol:

Mongoletsi
June 2nd, 2008, 09:09 AM
This episode was an utter mess.
Agreed.

It highlighted a lot of issues I had with BSG being miiiiiles away from "real life" of late...

- Tigh would simply not have been allowed to go on with 6 that long, if at all.
- bóllocks about Adama staying behind. Head of the military stripping the fleet of two irreplaceable resources (himself and a Raptor)*
- I can't be bothered going on... after the last two (really) ace episodes, it's back to square one. Thought we were gearing up to go out on a massive high?

* Especially with another (Roslin) gone too. Lee and Tigh now run the show? Urgh.

HOWEVER... we now know the named of "tatooed Asian pilot" ;)

As an aside, the South Park with Bono as The World's Biggest Crap was just on, hilarious. Want Bitty!!!

Briangate78
June 2nd, 2008, 09:23 AM
Agreed.

It highlighted a lot of issues I had with BSG being miiiiiles away from "real life" of late...

- Tigh would simply not have been allowed to go on with 6 that long, if at all.
- bóllocks about Adama staying behind. Head of the military stripping the fleet of two irreplaceable resources (himself and a Raptor)*
- I can't be bothered going on... after the last two (really) ace episodes, it's back to square one. Thought we were gearing up to go out on a massive high?

* Especially with another (Roslin) gone too. Lee and Tigh now run the show? Urgh.

HOWEVER... we now know the named of "tatooed Asian pilot" ;)

As an aside, the South Park with Bono as The World's Biggest Crap was just on, hilarious. Want Bitty!!!

I think the biggest problem with this episode was everything was rushed and forced. It did not feel right having Tigh take over command and Lee becoming president. I think the issue here is instead of tying up those loose ends, they added an abundance of more. Sure if there was going to be a 5th season with another 20 eps, it would make sense, however there are only 12 eps left in the show. They should be resolving issues rather than starting new ones.

Boo Boo
June 2nd, 2008, 10:42 AM
I really didn't care for this ep at all. Tigh in command now, and Lee prez, I just don't get it. Sharon/Boomer or whatever you want to call her should have been disposed of a long time ago. I don't like her.


Tigh would simply not have been allowed to go on with 6 that long, if at all.
- bóllocks about Adama staying behind. Head of the military stripping the fleet of two irreplaceable resources (himself and a Raptor)*


I couldn't agree more. Adama should have stayed with the fleet instead he is acting like a love sick puppy.

entil2001
June 2nd, 2008, 04:05 PM
Now that the introductory phase is well and truly over, complication must inevitably settle in, tossing pieces around the board in a seemingly random fashion. One problem with a deeply serialized format, particularly when a roadmap to resolution has been set, is filling in the blanks in sufficient depth. Motivations need to be established, and they must be tenable.

This episode, on the surface, is a bit boring and pretentious, and there will be a number of fans declaring it “horrible” or “filler” as a result. Some of that is a reaction to the approach, not the content. The content itself is grounded convincingly in the continuity of the series, even in instances where it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Zarek has always been a dangerous figure, a political rival to Roslin with complex subversive motives. This makes him a fun character to have around, but in realistic terms, not someone that should necessarily be in the presidential role. It’s not surprising that Adama would stonewall Zarek and push him out of favor, denying the Quorum any cooperation while he stands in Roslin’s place. What is surprising is how well Zarek takes that opposition.

Perhaps Zarek saw where the wind was blowing, and recognized that he would have someone more pliant to his manipulations in Lee Adama. I noted in an earlier review that Zarek seemed to be grooming Lee for this role, and sure enough, now he’s President Adama. His entire personality fits into the prototypical and idealistic notion of what a president should be, after all, and the writers spend a great deal of time making that case.

Oddly, they use Romo Lampkin as the messenger to the audience, and for the most part, it works. Lampkin was an interesting mentor to Lee already, so why not continue in that fashion? He’s also a bit mad, so there’s always a question of where the demented brilliance ends and the madness begins. The bit with the cat doesn’t quite add up, but it does play well with Lampkin’s style of manipulation. Forcing Lee to recognize and justify his fitness as president under gunpoint doesn’t seem all that outlandish for him!

So generally speaking, while Lee continues to be a bland character (even when striking a supermodel pose in red civilian threads), his character progression fits what has come before. The same is true for Adama, though the writers seem to take his personal quest to retrieve Roslin over the line of rationality.

That Adama would risk everything, including the fleet, to find someone he loves is not in question. This is the same Adama who would not give up on Kara in “You Can’t Go Home Again”, and that Adama will do nearly anything. It’s incredibly dangerous to have a military commander with such attachments, but under the circumstances, other options simply don’t exist. Which is why, in the end, it’s so interesting to think of Adama setting forth on this personal quest. He continues to risk, but he’s decided not to risk everyone else in the process.

Of course, that’s from his point of view; in reality, he’s just placed a Cylon in control of the entire fleet (and one with an admitted history of bad command decisions). Things seem on the verge of going horribly, horribly wrong without Roslin and Adama at the helm, and yet that may be deceptive. Lee is far more likely to listen when it comes to the idea of accord with the Cylons, and this new responsibility might finally push Tigh out of his post-revelatory funk.

That said, did Adama need to resign to make this story work? I’m not sure that it was necessary, because he could have placed Tigh in charge without the additional drama. Much like the over-the-top farewell for Lee earlier in the season, it seems like the writers elected to skip the subdued approach and went for the overkill. It was particularly odd with respect to their previous argument (and fistfight) regarding Caprica Six.

Tigh’s relationship with Caprica Six continues to be an odd plot point. I’m not sure that I’m sold on the idea just yet, but it’s clear that this situation is meant to distinguish the known Cylons from the Final Five in a fundamental way. This must be true, because the known Cylons were unable to reproduce; that was one key component of why they had to keep some of Humanity alive. Without that factor, the Cylons could feel justified in wiping out the rest of the Colonials.

On the other hand, if my theory regarding the origins of the Final Five are correct, then Tigh’s ability to impregnate Caprica Six makes sense. According to the theory, the Final Five are more software than hardware, a kind of genetic meme seeded within Humanity in each new turn of the wheel. If so, then Tigh has the right biology, since he is effective what is meant to be created. (This also means that the Final Five could, potentially, have origins older than the previous cycle.)

The main issue with this episode is not necessarily what happens, but how far the writers went to justify those choices. I personally think they oversold some of the plot turns, making them feel forced and unnatural, where a more subtle approach would have been in keeping with what has been seen. With this being the final season, and with expectations so high, maybe it’s a product of a desire to make every moment count.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2008
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

AeronPrometheus
June 2nd, 2008, 10:30 PM
Words that actually make sense!

Quoted for truth.

Matt G
June 3rd, 2008, 03:07 PM
1. WHAM! Nice hit Bill! :D

2. Not dead cert I buy Saul fracking Caprica either though!

3. Lee as President. OK...right...I think everyone trusts him more than Zarek though.

4. Admiral Tigh! :eek:

And next week we get the flipside of this coin!

Pic
June 4th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Now that I've had a bit more time to digest this episode, got a couple other comments/questions/diatribes.

Ok, still a little freaked about Head!Cat. Did someone kill Romo's cat because he participated in Baltar's legal defense? That would've been a while ago, and talk about stinky. Probably smelled worse than the Demetrius.

The blurring of the lines between "us and them" is becoming so pronounced. They did a great job of trying to ease us into this - Adama's perceptions especially. He yells at Athena for shooting and unarmed woman (woman, not cylon/enemy/toaster/etc). His beef with Saul seems to be that he's getting it on with a prisoner and got her pregnant - not so much the getting it on with a cylon thing. I heard this thought on a podcast, too, so I don't think I'm the only one seeing this - anyone here getting this vibe?

Sexy-shirt Lee -- ahem, I mean... Mr. President, sir... What the frak is Zarek going to do now? He's gotta be seriously pissed. Do you think Laura will see this move as a good move? I've kinda wondered if she's been so hard on him as a politician to toughen him up or distance him from her policies which she realizes may go down as unpopular - doing whatever it takes to survive sort of thing.

Ok, that's it. I'm ready to see X'Anna play mind-games with everyone now.

P-90_177
June 4th, 2008, 10:30 AM
Now that I've had a bit more time to digest this episode, got a couple other comments/questions/diatribes.

Ok, still a little freaked about Head!Cat. Did someone kill Romo's cat because he participated in Baltar's legal defense? That would've been a while ago, and talk about stinky. Probably smelled worse than the Demetrius.

The blurring of the lines between "us and them" is becoming so pronounced. They did a great job of trying to ease us into this - Adama's perceptions especially. He yells at Athena for shooting and unarmed woman (woman, not cylon/enemy/toaster/etc). His beef with Saul seems to be that he's getting it on with a prisoner and got her pregnant - not so much the getting it on with a cylon thing. I heard this thought on a podcast, too, so I don't think I'm the only one seeing this - anyone here getting this vibe?

Sexy-shirt Lee -- ahem, I mean... Mr. President, sir... What the frak is Zarek going to do now? He's gotta be seriously pissed. Do you think Laura will see this move as a good move? I've kinda wondered if she's been so hard on him as a politician to toughen him up or distance him from her policies which she realizes may go down as unpopular - doing whatever it takes to survive sort of thing.

Ok, that's it. I'm ready to see X'Anna play mind-games with everyone now.

I think that Roslin is probably gonna be glad Zarek wasn't left in charge. But I suspect that if she doesn't die before she gets back to the fleet that there may be some conflict between her and lee. I mean no doubt they'll write Lee as a damn good president (as he should be cos Apollo is awesome. :cool:) and no one will want to see him go and get roslin back. No one within government anyway. But as I say she may be more pleased just knowing that zarek isn't going to be in charge.

peragrin
June 5th, 2008, 05:29 AM
On the other hand, if my theory regarding the origins of the Final Five are correct, then Tigh’s ability to impregnate Caprica Six makes sense. According to the theory, the Final Five are more software than hardware, a kind of genetic meme seeded within Humanity in each new turn of the wheel. If so, then Tigh has the right biology, since he is effective what is meant to be created. (This also means that the Final Five could, potentially, have origins older than the previous cycle.)


That is an interesting thought. The final five can't download into new bodies directly but can only be reborn by a specific genetic memory sequence. Hence they are more like programmed Humans, instead of cylons programmed to be human. You can find humans today that look just like their grandparents or great grandparents. so the look can easily be duplicated. It also explains how 3 of the final 5 cylons are 30 ish years old though the cylon war ended 40 years ago. The older models passed on the genetic memory of what passed. Galen's father was very big into the 5 priests who worshipped the one who can't be named. maybe he really was one of those priests.

Rac80
June 6th, 2008, 02:32 PM
That is an interesting thought. The final five can't download into new bodies directly but can only be reborn by a specific genetic memory sequence. Hence they are more like programmed Humans, instead of cylons programmed to be human. You can find humans today that look just like their grandparents or great grandparents. so the look can easily be duplicated. It also explains how 3 of the final 5 cylons are 30 ish years old though the cylon war ended 40 years ago. The older models passed on the genetic memory of what passed. Galen's father was very big into the 5 priests who worshipped the one who can't be named. maybe he really was one of those priests.

Well i must agree on the genetics thing, my hubby looks almost exactly like his grandfather's grandfather (and he's the only one in his generation that does) maybe he's a cylon!!?!?!?!?!?
I never thought of Galen's father in that light.

CellarDwellar
June 6th, 2008, 07:00 PM
I have no comment to this episode. =3= It made me cringe.

Bruman
June 8th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I'm not 100% convinced that Tigh impregnated Caprica 6. He didn't admit it (which would be in character to admit things he did), and he didn't deny it. I think that Tigh is not entirely sure what happens when he's with 6. Maybe he had sex with 6 thinking 6 was Ellen, or maybe not. I think his silence is more confusion about "did I do that?" than trying to cover up anything.

But it's definitely an interesting development.

I like Lampkin as a character, but his role was kind of unnecessary in this episode. I wish they could have used him better.

I wondered about the characters knowing Latin, but chalked it up to suspension of disbelief and the idea that they must have had legal principles there too.

Adama looked mighty masculine in his flightsuit. He didn't have to resign from the military though... he could have just given himself a break.

AeronPrometheus
June 8th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Adama looked mighty masculine in his flightsuit. He didn't have to resign from the military though... he could have just given himself a break.

He wasn't sure he would be coming back. He was risking everything he had to be with Roslin. So he at least made it where if something bad happened the fleet wouldn't fall apart.

Can't wait to see Admiral Tigh.

DarkSullivan
June 12th, 2008, 09:57 AM
OMG, Natalie dies!!!!! I thought she would live, and see everything through to the very end, but i guess not. :(

Pic
June 12th, 2008, 10:37 AM
OMG, Natalie dies!!!!! I thought she would live, and see everything through to the very end, but i guess not. :(

I also thought it strange that she dies and she's in the Last Supper pic. Maybe that picture is only relevant to the first half of s4?

Pharaoh Atem
September 24th, 2008, 05:48 PM
Bill: i trusted you

i love how EJO delivered that line you can really feel how upset and dishearten bill was over thsi

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2008, 04:40 AM
ialways assumed lace was killed in the first ep of the season during the cylon attack. but now that i think about it lance was proabaly killed by someome who was upset that romo got baltar off

automatic
March 8th, 2009, 05:57 PM
The One?

helo or felix