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GateWorld
April 10th, 2008, 01:30 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4071.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">GUESS WHAT'S COMING TO DINNER</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 407</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Kara and the crew of the Demetrius bring Galactica a plan to join forces with a group of rebel Cylons, to find both Earth and the Final Five.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Archaeis
May 16th, 2008, 07:00 PM
So there has to be more than one six that thinks like Natalie right?

nckzvnbr
May 16th, 2008, 07:00 PM
At the promos for the next episode, it seems that Six has a medical condition as a result of her time with Tigh, she might be pregnant. Romo is back. Looks like Six also might survive, shows her going into surgery.

somedude
May 16th, 2008, 07:01 PM
I totally didn't see Natalie dying.

And poor gaeta, but at least he only lost the lower portion of his leg.

Vash
May 16th, 2008, 07:01 PM
In two weeks sadly.

Pharaoh Atem
May 16th, 2008, 07:02 PM
i think i speak for almost everyone when i say :eek:

what a great episode

DigiFluid
May 16th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Oh man, great stuff. As good, if not better than last week. I can't believe I have to wait another two weeks for (some) resolution to that ending :| Holiday in the States or soemthing?

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Gaeta's singing has to go on the soundtrack. Wow!

Pretty sweet how the Opera house corresponded with Galactica and the end, and did not expect Sharon to shoot Natalie! :eek:

Also, every scene with Tigh was just hilarious. Wow. The ironies abound.

But WHAT THE FRAK! Two weeks until the next ep?! :( :( :( I want to know what the hybrid has to say to Roslin! And where they've gone..... :eek:

somedude
May 16th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Gaeta for American Idol!

Major Fischer
May 16th, 2008, 07:05 PM
It's a little far fetched to me that either Athena or Caprica would tell Baltar that they are sharing visions with Roslin, and I have doubts that Roslin would have told Tory, so how does he know?

And frankly I'm not sure I have any sympathy for Lee's position. He's playing puppet to Gaius Baltar now? Playing puppet to Tom Zarek wasn't enough? Sorry RDM, you still haven't found that character.

The tension of the baseship jumping into the fleet was totally great. Exactly how I imagined it. Also, I love the look in Adama's face when Tigh orders weapons hold. It's not the first time he's done something instinctual in a crisis, but i have a feeling Bill knows there is something different about that one.

I would have liked to have seen Six land on galactica, but the scene between her and the president and admiral was really interesting in it's dynamic. Does Natalie think all the humans care about is revenge? That says a lot about her comment last week about human justice.

I could have done without some of the meaningful looks between the final four. And frankly the humans would be idiots or should be idiots for not realizing the last cylons would be among them. I think their paranoia has died down a little too much.

I could have done without watching Gaeta loose his leg. And I'm sorry, I don't buy letting him be awake for it. That's just silly.

So everyone is lying. That's doesn't have good consequences if they both carrying out their plans. I've been saying all season that Natalie is Laura Roslin's love child, but I think I'm more right in that joke than I ever wanted to be. You can't have two Laura's facing each other.

The CGI of the interior of the baseship is pretty amazing. As is hte idea that it can heal itself.

The four are undermining the fleet by trying to save their lives. They might as well put a gun to the heads of their friends.

I think Laura was more upset with Tory for sleeping with Baltar than for the religious conversion. Which is what I had predicted before. Tory looked crushed. I think Laura is her only connection to humanity these days. The question I was left with, was why didn't Laura ask Tory if she had started the rumors? She would be the obvious candidate especially if Laura thinks her friendship means "frak". Which by the way, was the most awkward usage of the word.

Gaeta's voice FTW.

Oh, Caprica told him. That still seems unlikely, but I suppose it's true.

Natalie is the dying leader.

Natalie's speech about dying, while standing next to a clearly dying Laura Roslin is just one of the most amazing pieces of rhetoric in the entire series. I'm not sure it can save Laura's presidency. She's become too inhuman. The fact that no one laughed at the joke about compassion really shows it. The actors playing Quorum members were pretty dead eyed. But that might be because they're actors with no lines who probably don't really understand the profound nature of what they've been told. That's the problem with having them suddenly show up this late in the series. You haven't built up any attachment to them.

Oh, new Opera House stuff. Mary looks odd in a bald cap. She has too much hair under it that it makes her head look massive.

Little kid saying byebye is creepy as hell.

She's got to know the truth of the visions. I think that's understandable.

I guess that answers one of the questions about the Last Supper picture. We know who Natalie is accusing. I hope she's not dead. I'm far too attached to that character.

I knew about the abduction ahead of time, but I was still loving it, and loving the music.

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Gaeta for American Idol!:lol:

He's better than that crapfest. ;)

If he doesn't make the soundtrack, I'll be real sad.

Pharaoh Atem
May 16th, 2008, 07:06 PM
.

But WHAT THE FRAK! Two weeks until the next ep?! :( :( :( I want to know what the hybrid has to say to Roslin! And where they've gone..... :eek:

it was a good ending and feelix singing the lien " have her for one day" ....was perfect then the ship jumped

gotta say i think lee misses the days when he knew what was going on galactica ...now he feels powerless

Arative
May 16th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Rather slow moving episode but pretty good. Its interesting that the basestar is self healing. Poor Gaeta but Roslin was right, what a way to find out that he has a good voice. I'm wondering if his song has any significance but I didn't listen to it that closely.

Nice SFX on the basestar jumping into the fleet.

You could see the conflict on Tigh's face when that 6 was explaining what they wanted, how they wanted to find the 5. It will be good to see how the cylons react to being mortal.

I didn't like Athena killing that 6 model but I guess we don't know if she is dead or not. It is interesting to note that the 6 model was named a leader by Kara, she could be part of the opera house vision and with a few bullets in her, she could be the dying leader. What if that 6 leads them all to earth?

Sweet the basestar jumped as soon as the hybrid was plugged back in. Ends on a good cliff hanger.

Xicer
May 16th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Easily my favorite episode of the season, if not the entire series just because of the last five minutes. I mean wow...what more is there to say?

And the next one looks good, anyone else catch Tight punching Adama?

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Easily my favorite episode of the season, if not the entire series just because of the last five minutes. I mean wow...what more is there to say?

And the next one looks good, anyone else catch Tight punching Adama?Yes!And Tigh saying "you dare accuse me" of what? What's Adama accusing him of? I desperately want to know! The two weeks is heartbreaking..... :(

TheGreatLordGeorge
May 16th, 2008, 07:11 PM
best frakking ending ever! I as stunned by the shooting but then the president stranded on a baseship with baltar and cylons....wow

hoof
May 16th, 2008, 07:12 PM
You know what this series feels like? On a roller-coaster, you climb and climb in the first part, it's slow, but the anticipation grows. Then at the top, you hang, start to move, and suddenly shoot downwards going faster and faster. The first 5 episodes were the uphill part. The last one was the hang. Now we are 100% into the descent, accelerating straight down, and about to begin the first few girations. That's what this feels like. And I must admit, after initial skepticism, I like it.

Did not see Natalie being shot coming (until Athena pulled the gun on her of course).

I've been 100% avoiding the previews, or anything. Yet fracking SciFi showed a short preview before the show showing Hera's "6" notebook (thus I wasn't surprised when Athena took a look and saw it). It seems we have to just avoid SciFi altogether to avoid getting spoiled. The first three seasons were really good about not spoiling the big stuff, but jeez, this time they seem to tell us the big stuff long before we see it in the show. Are they going to reveal the final cylon in a next-episode-preview? At this point I wouldn't be surprised. All this spoilerage is really starting to tick me off. Between Callie's death being spoiled, the shooting on the Demetreus, and a few other more minor spoils, they're really sabotaging the shock/surprise factor I love about BSG. If I wanted spoilers, I'd hunt for them on the web, not in the previews.

Anyway, good episode. If this is what the rest of the season is like, it'll be a fun ride!

TheGreatLordGeorge
May 16th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Yes!And Tigh saying "you dare accuse me" of what? What's Adama accusing him of? I desperately want to know! The two weeks is heartbreaking..... :(

I believe he impregnated the six in captivity, which would be interesting considering they are both cylons

nckzvnbr
May 16th, 2008, 07:13 PM
I don't think Natalie is dead, she got shot sure but: Promo for next week showed her going into surgery. Further, the discussion between Adama and Tigh looks pretty intense. Wonder if Six is pregnant. Maybe then Helo is the last Cylon and why Hera is so special and not Nicky. Hmm smells like retcon.

Skydiver
May 16th, 2008, 07:13 PM
fyi, next monday, not the coming monday, but the one after, the 26th i think, is memorial day. And scifi always shows marathons on holiday weekends under the belief that 'no one is home so why waste a new episode'

hence the 2 week delay

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 07:14 PM
I believe he impregnated the six in captivity, which would be interesting considering they are both cylons
Oh frak.....I didn't want to read that. :S

somedude
May 16th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Easily my favorite episode of the season, if not the entire series just because of the last five minutes. I mean wow...what more is there to say?

And the next one looks good, anyone else catch Tight punching Adama?

That may just be Tigh's imagination, like how he imagined shooting Adama.

DigiFluid
May 16th, 2008, 07:23 PM
fyi, next monday, not the coming monday, but the one after, the 26th i think, is memorial day. And scifi always shows marathons on holiday weekends under the belief that 'no one is home so why waste a new episode'

hence the 2 week delay

Blah....it's a holiday weekend up here this weekend and I'm sure the viewer base here is as large as it is down there... Besides, choosing to air it at 10pm on Friday nights isn't exactly conducive to people being home to watch it anyway.

/not griping at you, just at "the man"
//sigh

DigiFluid
May 16th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Oh, also, Baltar's new facial hair arrangement:

W.
T.
F.


Is he trying to look like a carny?

Hart
May 16th, 2008, 07:25 PM
I'm avoiding all the spoilers, so sorry if I sound like a retard ...

Yeah, it seems to me Adama is #1) realizing (finally) that at least some of the five are in his inner circle and #2) I'm kinda thinking he knows something's up with Tigh.

Actually, does anyone get the impression that Adama and Roslin are sorta getting the picture ... that there's getting to be less and less distinguishing features and less and less reasons to distinguish between humans and Cylons? If and when these Cylons lose resurrection capabilities IS there a difference? That was the point of that being so stressed, no?

I wonder if all the prophecy actually is about the Cylons, not so much the RTF.

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Oh, also, Baltar's new facial hair arrangement:

W.
T.
F.


Is he trying to look like a carny?Yeah. Baltar looked weird- I first sorta noticed it with Tori, but then when he was peering round the curtain at Roslin- my mum actually had to ask who it was, and I barely recognized him. He needs another change of look- but with his new predicament that doesn't seem likely to happen soon.

Poor Roslin. Stuck on a basestar with Baltar. And were Starbuck and Helo with them? I can't remember exactly who all was there.....

Edit: and I love that Zerak is stuck doing her dirty work. It's horrible, but I love it. :D

Pharaoh Atem
May 16th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Yeah. Baltar looked weird- I first sorta noticed it with Tori, but then when he was peering round the curtain at Roslin- my mum actually had to ask who it was, and I barely recognized him. He needs another change of look- but with his new predicament that doesn't seem likely to happen soon.

Poor Roslin. Stuck on a basestar with Baltar. And were Starbuck and Helo with them? I can't remember exactly who all was there.....

roslin
helo
kara
baltar
and random member of the galactica crew

somedude
May 16th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Can't Gaeta get a nice Cylon leg, or even a Centurion leg? That would be kickass.

And why does Leoben always wear the same outfit, with the weird red sweater vest thing? Even the other models change clothes.

rarocks24
May 16th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Easily my favorite episode of the season, if not the entire series just because of the last five minutes. I mean wow...what more is there to say?

And the next one looks good, anyone else catch Tight punching Adama?

Yup. Accused him of treason (or at least putting the fleet in danger), and got his ass handed to him for it. I'm wondering if poor ole' Adama is capable of handling Tigh's newfound Cylon strength. Hell, I was wondering why the Cylons didn't question how Anders was able to wrestle a female six to the ground (never mind the fact that he was once a pyramid player).

What I don't get is, the Raiders knew Anders was a Cylon. They scanned him, his eyes all went Cylon red, and backed off. The centurions don't have cylon detection powers? The Centurions all jumping on board with a plan to take hostages isn't surprising. Though I'm amazed they forgave the fact that they took the hybrid offline.

I'm thinking that the confrontation at the Opera House that Athena saw was a plot device to get Natalie into the position of a dying leader (assuming she actually dies). But then that doesn't explain why Six is seen picking up Hera and taking her into the room with of all people, Gaius Baltar.

I'm guessing in the coming weeks, something will happen and the rebels will join the Colonial Fleet permanently. I doubt though we'll keep the basestar, but with the Centurions involved in a plan to take the humans hostage, the question of actual ownership comes into question.

And can someone please explain this please? We've seen Cylons resurrected on basestars before, so why the need for a resurrection ship or for that matter a resurrection hub? It seems like a convenient plot device to destroy the Cylons ability to download. Granted, I'd love to see the face on Cavil when he finds out about this little gem of information, and it solves a major point of contention.

I almost thought that Natalie was going to say, "if we do this, we become as human as you".

The Quorum of the Twelve was a weak plot device. They were forced on us to help with Lee's plot. And then seeing the dead, clueless look in their faces. There was no connection. The emotions that Natalie supposedly saw in the Quorum were non-existent to the viewers.

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 07:36 PM
[spoiler]I'm thinking that the confrontation at the Opera House that Athena saw was a plot device to get Natalie into the position of a dying leader (assuming she actually dies). But then that doesn't explain why Six is seen picking up Hera and taking her into the room with of all people, Gaius Baltar. I'm wondering if the "Opera House" vision in this case, on Athena's part, was more a thing of paranoia than the vision actually being fulfilled- she had the shared dream the night before so it was fresh in her mind. If her kid just walks off, of course it's going to be the first thing she starts associating as she's looking for her.

the fifth man
May 16th, 2008, 07:38 PM
Great episode tonight. Too bad it had to end. Two weeks before seeing what happens next is going to so suck.:(

unruhbrady
May 16th, 2008, 07:40 PM
In The scifi trailer for 2 weeks from now:

For a couple frames there was someone being sworn in. It looked like lee was being sworn in as president, or something. Keep in mind the RTF has no clue where the base-ship jumped to and may temporarily assume roslin dead.

Pharaoh Atem
May 16th, 2008, 07:41 PM
anyone else find it kinda errie that the survivor count isn't moving much ...it's like there want you to get that number in your head

like something bads going to happen. it's been bugging me lately

nckzvnbr
May 16th, 2008, 07:41 PM
I thought it was ironic that Natalie thought the Humans couldn't be trusted, then had the revelation that it was the Cylons that couldn't be trusted, and then she comes back to the Galactica to be shot by Athena, a Cylon.

If you look up some of the season promos for Lee for season 4 there is one on youtube showing him taking an oath, but with his father present. But the legal thing, if their law is anything like ours would be to make the vice president the president not some quorom member, which would mean Zarek not Lee.

Hart
May 16th, 2008, 07:43 PM
[spoiler]The Quorum of the Twelve was a weak plot device. They were forced on us to help with Lee's plot. And then seeing the dead, clueless look in their faces. There was no connection. The emotions that Natalie supposedly saw in the Quorum were non-existent to the viewers.

Oh, I dunno. I kinda thought that was the point ... the Quorum was so dead and unaffected by her speech which, I think, came across to the viewer (and Roslin and Starbuck, at the least) as kinda deeply moving. There doesn't seem to be as much possible empathy for certain Cylons with people outside the inner circle and I think this is a big issue with the rebel Cylons ... as it probably ought to be.

I wouldn't be surprised if RTF mutiny becomes a significant point a little further down the road. The Cylons have had civil war ... why not the humans? Lord knows (as does Natalie) that it's in our nature. Again, another issues that minimizes the differences between Cylons and humans. Rebel Cylons hooking up with rebel RTF humans - this could be our new tribe.

Pharaoh Atem
May 16th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Oh, I dunno. I kinda thought that was the point ... the Quorum was so dead and unaffected by her speech which, I think, came across to the viewer (and Roslin and Starbuck, at the least) as kinda deeply moving. There doesn't seem to be as much possible empathy for certain Cylons with people outside the inner circle and I think this is a big issue with the rebel Cylons ... as it probably ought to be.

I wouldn't be surprised if RTF mutiny becomes a significant point a little further down the road. The Cylons have had civil war ... why not the humans? Lord knows (as does Natalie) that it's in our nature. Again, another issues that minimizes the differences between Cylons and humans. Rebel Cylons hooking up with rebel RTF humans - this could be our new tribe.

or humans prove that they are worthy to survive and the cylons end up breaking apart completely

unruhbrady
May 16th, 2008, 07:53 PM
im looking at the screencap, Lee is DEF. being sworn into something, zarek and adama are present, but lee is DEF. in the spotlight. There is a microphone aimed at lee on the edge of the pic and behind him someone is holding a remote-control shaped silver device up to eye level and pushing something on it.

kharn the betrayer
May 16th, 2008, 07:55 PM
for the preview for the next episode

was that Lampkin I saw in it since I cant name many if at all any characters other than him that wear sun glasses... I sure hope its him

marielabbott
May 16th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Another great episode...I'd rather not have my three day weekend next weekend and see the new episode instead. :p

The truth of the opera house...we don't really know it yet, do we? I wonder if Athena, by killing Natalie, is actually making what she most fears come true. Like some sort of odd self-fulfulling prophecy.

Feelix, wow, nice seranade. Does anyone know the song he was singing? I'm sure it has some sort of significance.

The wheely ship that was damaged in the premiere looks like it is fully repaired now...will this new alliance bring "wholeness" to the remnants of humanity?

I hope they give Lee something more to do soon. So far I'm not impressed with his political career.

Roslin asking Starbuck for help--that was majorly unexpected for me. I wonder why the hybrid immediately jumped, and to where.

daniel9
May 16th, 2008, 08:10 PM
for the preview for the next episode

was that Lampkin I saw in it since I cant name many if at all any characters other than him that wear sun glasses... I sure hope its him

no one else in the series wears them so its obvious who it is

hm am i the only one who thinks the opera house is a superpowered resurrection hub?

lol i wonder how athena is gonna feel when she finds out she shot the wrong 6? lucky she didnt see baltar like rosslin did or she wouldve gone after caprica

hm why was baltar so trusting to helo? he just went with him to an unknown place. is there a reason for that besides him now being fearless? and who told baltar that gaeta was singing and why would he need to know?

erinanderson
May 16th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Oh, also, Baltar's new facial hair arrangement:

W.
T.
F.


Is he trying to look like a carny?

OMG I am so glad I wasn't the only one wondering WTF was up with Baltar's facial hair. Dear lord please shave it off.

And I am pretty much with everyone else on this. Gaeta's voice = FTW. That man needs his own album. Screw American Idol, I wanna hear more of Gaeta singing.

And seriously was that Lampkin I saw a quick flash of? I ADORE Lampkin and would love to see more of him.

Chev's Ron
May 16th, 2008, 08:39 PM
I knew that none of the Main characters on the Base Ship were going to die when Galactica deployed vipers, but still... The scene was intense. (Good twist on Demetrius not jumping in time)

I wonder what Caprica thinks of the Rebellion. Obviously she would support most of the rebels given her willingness to help Galactica's crew. I just wonder if her defection, like the boomer-apathy on side choosing, is unique to her model.

I certainty wasn't expecting Natalie to be shot, even with Athena's gun raised. Given Hera's response to the dream when she spoke to Athena, I wonder if the Baby "knows" more than her mom and the others. Perhaps death and life... Roslyn and a Newborn, will lead humanity to Earth.

Saul Tigh's willingness to destroy/backstab the Rebel cylons shows his deep fear of discovery. With all the talk about the final five knowing the way to Earth, the four must be having doubts as to Earths existence.

What I mean by that is that if the others "messianic quest" for earth, wrong on that point, then the final five might think that the whole thing is a bunch of hooey.

I only hope that the Rebels are allowed back into the fleet, I really liked the idea of a joint task force.


I think that in the next Episode Saul will either admit that he is a cylon, or come damn close to it. If all else is frakked up, then Saul might just end his friendship with Adama and say the hell with it.

Chev's Ron
May 16th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Crap...Double post delete plz

hoof
May 16th, 2008, 08:49 PM
I was watching the rerun of the episode, when I realized something. The hybrid said Kara was the harbringer of death (how do you spell that word?). The humans and the rebels are planning on destroying the ressurection capacity of the cylons. In a sense, they are bringing death (at some future point) to the Cylons, could this be what the hybrid meant? That Kara would start the events that lead to the loss of the cylon's immortality?

Speaking of which, I have two thoughts about this supposed nexus. If there's only one, and destroying it eliminates the ressurection capacity, then I'd guess that the cylons would've been in trouble had the humans not been destroyed and war had started. After all, once the humans found (and destroyed) this facility, the cylons would no longer be immortal. You'd think that they'd decentralize the system or have the ability to replace it. The fact that they don't (as implied by the rebels) indicates that the human cylons were made by something else, something else that deliberately left that weakness.

Also, since the rebels showed interest in bringing #3 back, Cavil's group should realize that the facility would be a target (at a minimum, to get #3 back). As a result, they'd be wise to set a trap, wait for someone to try to make a move, then kill them. It only makes sense.

hoof
May 16th, 2008, 08:59 PM
Oh man, I just had an epiphany. The song Gaeta is singing at the end has the same tune as the music that's playing when the basestar jumps and Natalie gets shot.

That's got to mean something. No idea what yet :)

JohnnyToxin
May 16th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Two great episodes in a row, sweet!

Did anyone happen to catch what Athena said to Tigh right before she shot Natalie?

Jeffala
May 16th, 2008, 09:19 PM
I liked this episode. It was good enough that I didn't notice that the hour had elapsed.

Trek_Girl42
May 16th, 2008, 10:09 PM
Oh man, I just had an epiphany. The song Gaeta is singing at the end has the same tune as the music that's playing when the basestar jumps and Natalie gets shot.

That's got to mean something. No idea what yet :)Didn't particularly notice that, but that would be because it flows nicely- if I recall there wasn't any break between the basestar jumping and Gaeta singing. To have two different tunes would sound weird. It's simply Bear McCreary being excellent, rather than having any significant meaning I think.

Daedalus-304
May 16th, 2008, 10:17 PM
Shoot, two weeks all because of memorial day.

Well I guess I'll just play Halo or something not-as-fun as a new episode.

Kind of weird that the rebel Cylons don't want to resurrect anymore. I know that that wouldn't be me if I was a Cylon.

AeronPrometheus
May 16th, 2008, 10:46 PM
The song Geita is singing will be season 4's Watchtower, this episode reeked of movie quality shots and music, they even strummed a few lines from the song that led up to Watchtower in the Season 3 cliffhanger while the groups were walking to their respective destinations. The music for this series is outstanding.

Tigh's "Which one of them shot Geita?", spoken in the same breath as Kara's "They're with me". Which was in reference to the skin jobs. What a poetic line, seeing as it WAS a Cylon that shot him. :P Almost as funny as Tigh quoting Charlton Heston in the brig with Six.

I didn't like Tori getting all mopey when the president found her out, that's not how she acts now at all. She should have snapped back and walked out of the room in protest. However her attempted manipulation of Baltar is on the mark.

Tyrol seems to be obsessed with being super-mechanic now, even during the storage locker gang meeting he was cleaning something. Watch at the end of the series he builds his own homemade Centurion and lets it loose on the ship. At least he had the sense to realize that mixing paint wasn't nearly as interesting as following Athena aimlessly through the ship. Don't they have Amber Alert, that thing is a mile long.

I like the idea that the Base Star will heal itself (depleted of raiders oh well, unless they can heal too), by the time it's fully operational they'll manage to blow it up, along with half the namelesses that are currently on board. I laughed at how the Centurions are all "Move, *****es". Hope the ship doesn't have public showers.

Let's see, continue talking about the third dimension of the show or talk about how bad ass the CGI was during the Base Star's popping up inside the fleet. That had to make several captains wet themselves. Ships were going everywhere and Galactica was just waiting for a clean shot, loved it to death. Although why didn't Tigh just say he saw the overlapping FOF tags on Dradius? Was no one else looking? Was the Base Star's comm out also, hard to believe when that frakked up Heavy Raider could talk to Kara.

That's all I've got right now. Damn fine episode, they're pouring all the good gasoline into the rest of the series now, expect each episode to be better than the last.

Sci-Fi
May 17th, 2008, 01:30 AM
The writers are blurring the line...Humans and Cylons are more alike than they care to admit. The distrust, lies or half-truths, and even shooting/killing their own.

Liked the coloring book, as the pages were turned, it started to look like '666' in groups of three. RDM probably threw that in there.

Should be interesting where the baseship jumped to.

Night Marshal
May 17th, 2008, 01:44 AM
More meat and potatoes this week of the major plot thread it fact I think this is the most together(physically) that the story has been since the season opener. I still have mixed feelings on the larger season arc. While I like that kind of show, battlestar has always walked the line of being arc driven and still having one shot episodes. There is no more of that of course there is to much ground to cover and just one season to cover it. At this point I like the journey I think its strong is most parts, not all but most. However I reserve my judgment until I see the end. Because this season will be made or broken on how they finish the show.

Joben
May 17th, 2008, 02:27 AM
Great episode, it had a bit of everything. For the first time this season I feel like the show is moving forward and going somewhere instead of keeping questions unexplained and forgotten.

Also on another note it was good that there were no minor season 1/2 actors killed off - I was worried in the final scene with Gaeta that something was going to happen but thankfully it didn't pan out.

peragrin
May 17th, 2008, 04:15 AM
Easily my favorite episode of the season, if not the entire series just because of the last five minutes. I mean wow...what more is there to say?

And the next one looks good, anyone else catch Tight punching Adama?
<orgasmic>JUMP</orgasmic>

Wow Just fracking Wow. I loved this episode. Between Gaeta's sweet voice,(and yes I can see him wanting to be awake for the cutting, In the civil war era and in military hospitals it can be done still that way. The only reason to knock you out completely is for the pain.

On the Basestar, is half the viper wing as well as a number of raptor pilots. Oh yea Basestar's are grown? but Raiders aren't? A Basestar can't replace missing raiders either. this is odd considering the Pegasus could. Maybe Raiders with their downloads require them to be built at the resurrection ship/hub

As Well I can see Six, Baltar, Hera, Baltar's harem, and the remaining Cylons going back to Kobol to restart human life. Starbuck the harbinger of death will kill all Cylons, one way or another.


Oh man, I just had an epiphany. The song Gaeta is singing at the end has the same tune as the music that's playing when the basestar jumps and Natalie gets shot.

That's got to mean something. No idea what yet :)Isn't it the same song that the other 4 heard at their meeting? could be wrong on that though. I don't have an ear for music.

As someone else pointed out the three may not be D'anna but the 3 T's Tigh,Tori, & Tyrol. I bet Tigh gives up Anders, and maybe Tori in the next episode.

Lady Snow
May 17th, 2008, 05:33 AM
For anyone wondering about the music, Bear McCreary's blog has a great (as usual) entry about this past episode: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=349

(My reactions later, I need to watch the episode again.)

Pharaoh Atem
May 17th, 2008, 05:56 AM
For anyone wondering about the music, Bear McCreary's blog has a great (as usual) entry about this past episode: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=349

(My reactions later, I need to watch the episode again.)

Nice!!!!

well we thought the song wired into the ep and we were right :D

i really hope it's on the soundtrack

BSG19
May 17th, 2008, 06:41 AM
I'm surprised that many times it has been said "the Final Five cylons are from Earth" yet no one seems to be in the least disturbed or surprised by that fact. There should have been at least some worry about Earth being compromised by the enemy.

stdhs
May 17th, 2008, 07:09 AM
Why are the colonials letting the centurions just walk around? Wouldn't the first thing to do upon taking over the basestar be to melt them all down into scrap?

peragrin
May 17th, 2008, 07:19 AM
Why are the colonials letting the centurions just walk around? Wouldn't the first thing to do upon taking over the basestar be to melt them all down into scrap?
How about we melt you down into scrap. remember this group of cylons freed the centurions and made them truly sentient. The Centurions might object, Violently.

Jeffala
May 17th, 2008, 07:20 AM
Why are the colonials letting the centurions just walk around? Wouldn't the first thing to do upon taking over the basestar be to melt them all down into scrap?

It's most likely that they can't. The colonials on the base star are probably greatly outnumbered by the Centurions.

And it's not like the Centurions are blindly taking orders anymore, either. They would probably look unkindly on any attempt to scrap them.

nckzvnbr
May 17th, 2008, 09:15 AM
Did anyone notice that the face of the hybrid flashed into Roslin and Athena's dream, but only ver very briefly.

Jumper_One
May 17th, 2008, 10:08 AM
wow this was an amazing ep, so much is happening - finally! first there's the situation with the Demetrius and the base ship. that was extremely well done imo. was it instinct or did Tigh order to hold fire because he's one of the final five? poor Gaeta, he had to lose his leg. it seems that every ep someone dies or in this case loses a limb. his bittersweet singing reminded me of Return of the King when Pippin sings while the troops are being slaughtered. anyway the plan to eliminate the Cylon's ability to resurrect is just awesome! if this works it would mean...well let's not go there because I'm sure there'll be a lot of surprises until they manage to accomplish this. one would be the Cylon plan to kidnap the humans on the base ship once the mission's over. also great scene in Roslin's office, does she still trust Tori? I don't think so.

Lee has an interesting role in this ep. he has no idea what's going on and I'm sure he doesn't like it but somehow he knows how important Roslin is. I didn't expect her to actually do what Lee suggested. the look on the member's faces was actually quite funny, most of them have probably never seen a Cylon before. oh wait no they were all on New Caprica. anyway nice to see Kara back in uniform. I have no idea how she intends to help Roslin understand the visions, we'll see. then there's Hera, what's up with her? I mean her drawings, the visions and then she literally seeks out Six. very strange. I also didn't expect Athena to shoot Six, that was a nice twist which I'm sure will be important in the next eps. they plug it in and the ship jumps. who's onboard? Roslin, Baltar, couple of Marines and of course the Cylons. wow I really hope the next eps will be as exciting as this one!

daniel9
May 17th, 2008, 10:47 AM
hmm u know i am starting to wonder just how many cylons there are out there. with the supposed main resurrection hub of ALL cylons being so close to the fleet. where are the billions of cylons at heading to earth?? what about the cylon homeworld? why is there a need for a main hub? so far we've only seen what a couple of thousand cylons or maybe tens of thousands? those can be taken care of by the normal resurrection ships. so whats the need for the hub? i dont get it

MerryK
May 17th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Just popping in to say...this episode gave me hope that this series really does know where it's going. I'm hooked again!

MmmmMcKAy
May 17th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Another superlative episode. I love how the episode didn't focus one one or two characters but instead included everyone.

Wow at Athena killing Natalie. I'm going to miss her.:( Loved how Athena's dream/vision of looking for Hera was intertwined with her actual pursuit of Hera. Are both Roslin(who hid Herafrom Athena) and Athena(who gave birth to Hera) sensing the future loss of the child. Will Six, Gaius and Hera be the only survivors(going into bright room and the door closing behind them)? Are they the future? Hera certainly senses something.

Gaeta was like a side show freak who everyone had to take a look at. I actually felt bad for him. Why has no one said that Anders shot him? Remember Tigh saying "And who the frak shot Gaeta". He has a lovely voice though. And what a meloncholy song he sang.

Tigh stopping the vipers from going after the Cylon base ship was cool. Geez Tigh, how did you know?;)

Laura telling off Tori was priceless. "I don't care if you have to spend all night on your knees praying or just on your knees".:lol: Tori looked suitably chastised and for the first time in a long time her coolness and confidence were shaken.

Enjoyed watching the viper pilots scatter for the Centurions.

Is Natalie the dying leader? Starbuck's liitle interlude while watching Natalie speak to the Quorum makes you wonder.

Double wow at the Hybrid waking up and initiating a jump with Roslin and Baltar aboard. Are they the hostages now?

Can't wait for the 2 weeks to fly by.

Trek_Girl42
May 17th, 2008, 04:01 PM
Laura telling off Tori was priceless. "I don't care if you have to spend all night on your knees praying or just on your knees".:lol: Tori looked suitably chastised and for the first time in a long time her coolness and confidence were shaken.That was GREAT! Such language coming from Laura! And Tori deserved every bit of it. :D

MmmmMcKAy
May 17th, 2008, 04:08 PM
I forgot to mention the decision to destroy the Cylon resurrection hub. The cylon rebels are more than willing to give up their immortality. That certainly changes things. Everyone will be on an even footing. I wonder how many actual copies of each model there are? How long would it take for them to be wiped out?

Oooooh, and the unboxing of D'Anna will be very exciting. Tigh and company must be sweating bullets.

Jeffala
May 17th, 2008, 04:35 PM
I wonder how many actual copies of each model there are? How long would it take for them to be wiped out?

When they boxed the Threes, Cavil and D'ana were in a large room with several hundred (I think) "tanks".

If that was just one resurrection ship, then I guess it's possible that each ship could accommodate growing several hundred items at one time.

I wonder if you can grow new individuals without the Hub.

I don't think that there is a fixed number of individuals per model, but each model is unique. Caprica Six isn't like Natalie because their personalities are based on different experiences. Individual Cylons would be wary of being killed once there was no more resurrection, but I think they could create as many new iterations as needed. They had to have a basic template for the original iterations of the 7 models.

Trek_Girl42
May 17th, 2008, 04:44 PM
I forgot to mention the decision to destroy the Cylon resurrection hub. The cylon rebels are more than willing to give up their immortality. That certainly changes things. Everyone will be on an even footing. I wonder how many actual copies of each model there are? How long would it take for them to be wiped out?

Oooooh, and the unboxing of D'Anna will be very exciting. Tigh and company must be sweating bullets.That scene where they were discussing it and Tigh was arguing with Roslin was absolute gold when he realized that he'd lost. So darkly hilarious, I couldn't stop laughing at all the ironies abound in the ep. :D

But wow.....when they do get D'Anna out of storage, all is going to hell. :D

Arative
May 17th, 2008, 05:38 PM
Anyone else notice that Lee was still wearing his wedding ring?

Trek_Girl42
May 17th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Anyone else notice that Lee was still wearing his wedding ring?Didn't notice, but didn't Adama sill wear his ring after his divorce? Like father like son..... :P

An-Alteran
May 17th, 2008, 07:44 PM
.She would be the obvious candidate especially if Laura thinks her friendship means "frak". Which by the way, was the most awkward usage of the word.
Actually, considering the context of why she said it (Tory and Baltar), it actually was somewhat appropriate...

jenks
May 17th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Two good episodes in a row? Maybe there's hope for BSG yet...

SoulReaver
May 17th, 2008, 08:54 PM
I believe he impregnated the six in captivity, which would be interesting considering they are both cylonssomehow I don't see Tigh + Caprica6 http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/skylight.gif


we don't know for sure anyway - assuming it's even about a pregnancy

- on one hand we've never seen Caprica6 & Baltar talk to each other ever since Caprica6 was thrown in the brig

- but on the other hand Baltar did say Caprica6 told him about Roslin's visions right ? which would mean that there was some kinda [offscreen] contact between the two, right ? http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/nicobule.gif
did Baltar get to visit her in her cell perhaps ?



as for Gaeta - someone plz put a gag on the bloke ?

jenks
May 17th, 2008, 09:39 PM
I couldn't believe it when I heard this line -

"we tangled with those slit eyed black *******s for three years [...]"

Now I'm not one to be PC, but I'm surprised they chose to word it like that!

GateTrek2004
May 17th, 2008, 09:59 PM
I was watching the rerun of the episode, when I realized something. The hybrid said Kara was the harbringer of death (how do you spell that word?). The humans and the rebels are planning on destroying the ressurection capacity of the cylons. In a sense, they are bringing death (at some future point) to the Cylons, could this be what the hybrid meant? That Kara would start the events that lead to the loss of the cylon's immortality?.

I never thought of that! That actually makes loads of sense as she did put these actions into effect by allowing the leoben onboard the Dem. and then meeting the baseship. Also in Razor-The first hybrid also said almost the same thing that she will lead them to their death. It would fit that she is the harbringer of death, she will being them all to their end- not of humans, but the cylons.

Jeffala
May 17th, 2008, 11:48 PM
- but on the other hand Baltar did say Caprica6 told him about Roslin's visions right ? which would mean that there was some kinda [offscreen] contact between the two, right ? http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/nicobule.gif
did Baltar get to visit her in her cell perhaps ?

Baltar said that he learned of that just before the end of his trial. His attorney was passing information to him from Six.

anotherquestion
May 18th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Why isn't Anders in the brig, at least, and facing charges for shooting Gaeta ?
Athena is living up to her words "to pick a side and stick with it" regardless of the consequences. Kind of ironic since only Colonials actually have taken her child in the past, not the Cylons. Athena has been shot twice and killed once by a Colonial (Helo). Visions count for more than reality, I suppose, at this stage.
Romo Lampkin is in the preview, likely to defend Saul Tigh for literally "consorting" with the enemy.
Perhaps Gaeta is the fifth Cylon, now "clawing his way through the darkness, with great suffering". I guess we'll know if he grows a new leg, like a basestar.
It seems strange that in this season almost every Cylon that has been killed, was offed by another Cylon.
Four of the final five obviously do not know the way to Earth, or they would at least be talking about it. Will the fifth one be the key ?
Wouldn't it be better not to destroy the Resurrection Hub, but rather to seed it with the "Cylon killer virus" as was planned earlier ? Didn't Roslin give the go-ahead to germ warfare ?

Wayston
May 18th, 2008, 01:00 AM
Why isn't Anders in the brig, at least, and facing charges for shooting Gaeta ?

You might as well ask yourself why Gaeta, Helo and the rest of the mutineers aren't in the brig... either they haven't reported on it yet, or if they did they probably didn't tell in too much detail what happened with Gaeta or else everyone agreed it sucked but nobody was to blame...


It seems strange that in this season almost every Cylon that has been killed, was offed by another Cylon.

This has largely been true since the beginning of the series. There have been many cylons killed by actual humans but the overwhelming majority of such killings took place under the leadership of other cylons (and the avid "let's airlock the frakkers" Laura Roslin might still turn out to be a cylon...), because it was Anders leading the Caprica resistance and Anders, Tigh, Tyrol leading the New Caprica resistance - also athena killed cylons while strutting along with Helo on caprica.

Dusk
May 18th, 2008, 03:28 AM
Marvelous! Finally, things are happening!

Highlights

The opening arrival of the damaged base star and the Fleet's scramble.

The resurrection hub... no doubt we'll be seeing more very soon.

Seeing the deckhands and pilots inside the base star prepping Vipers for launch.

Roslin's dressing down of Tory for her betrayal and slutty antics with Baltar.

The final moments...

Lowlights

Scenes with the Quorum... what a pack of snotty scumbags.

The entire 'ordeal' with Gaeta. Talk about lament of the curly haired pirate. I have nothing against opera and ballads, but their use here was quite off. He's lost a leg, yes how awful, but at least he has his life, which is more than the vast majority of Colonials could say.



It also disturbs me greatly that so many of you are in the know about future events, marked by the heavy peppering of spoiler tags throughout this thread. You do realise that the best way to appreciate and enjoy this show is without revealing spoilers right? I don't care as long as I'm not spoiled, but I'm just saying, why read the end of a book before reading the build-up?

Two weeks wait... argh, now that's something to sing sadly about.

Actionhank
May 18th, 2008, 04:21 AM
remember this group of cylons freed the centurions and made them truly sentient.
Say What?!?
:D

I like the series more than ever before. What a great episode.
Cylons and humans become more and more alike. I wonder if they'll blend into one.

wwlh
May 18th, 2008, 06:00 AM
Pretty sweet how the Opera house corresponded with Galactica

Forgive my not knowing the name of the episode - but when Baltar is living on the Cylon Baseship - and we see him stumbling around not knowing where he's going - but we six moving through the corridors...though she's projected the enviroment of a forest so she know's where she's going....

Whoever is creating the vision of the opera house - must know the layout of the Galactica...

the final cylon??

Pic
May 18th, 2008, 07:57 AM
Here's a thought about the 6,2,8 motivation. The cylons are willing to destroy the "Hub" because they know now that they can reproduce (Hera) so they're ready to take the next evolutionary step and continue their race in the way the humans do? and with the humans, too?

errrr... (anyway, I left Nicky out on purpose, they don't know about him).

Jeffala
May 18th, 2008, 09:36 AM
Lowlights

Scenes with the Quorum... what a pack of snotty scumbags.

Yeah. How dare the government demand oversight of their President. And how dare they demand answers when it's revealed that the President is sharing the same dream as two Cylons. Why on Earth would they think that's something to be concerned about?

ziggythecat
May 18th, 2008, 12:48 PM
i didn't see this posted but it's the one thing that has stuck in my head about the episode. Right before Athena shoots Natalie, during the part of her vision where Six picks up Hera, Tyrol is the one who actually gets her and takes her away in real life. I wonder if this has any underlying meaning.

Trek_Girl42
May 18th, 2008, 12:53 PM
i didn't see this posted but it's the one thing that has stuck in my head about the episode. Right before Athena shoots Natalie, during the part of her vision where Six picks up Hera, Tyrol is the one who actually gets her and takes her away in real life. I wonder if this has any underlying meaning.Meh. More irony than anything else I think. That Athena is trying to protect her child from the cylons, but it's two cylons that are trying to help her (Tigh and Tyrol).

Lady Snow
May 18th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Wouldn't it be better not to destroy the Resurrection Hub, but rather to seed it with the "Cylon killer virus" as was planned earlier ? Didn't Roslin give the go-ahead to germ warfare ?


Because that's where the D'Annas are, and they need at least one of them alive. And I'm pretty sure that was a one-time-only thing, but I could be wrong on that.


Forgive my not knowing the name of the episode - but when Baltar is living on the Cylon Baseship - and we see him stumbling around not knowing where he's going - but we six moving through the corridors...though she's projected the enviroment of a forest so she know's where she's going....

Whoever is creating the vision of the opera house - must know the layout of the Galactica...

the final cylon??

Brilliant! I love it! I only hope it doesn't necessitate one of the two humans in the scene being Cylons (even though they're in the Last Supper pic, which itself could be a misdirection).

dec55
May 18th, 2008, 03:31 PM
The kid that plays Hera is just adorable.....:)

Dusk
May 18th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Yeah. How dare the government demand oversight of their President. And how dare they demand answers when it's revealed that the President is sharing the same dream as two Cylons. Why on Earth would they think that's something to be concerned about?

Haha, of course they have a purpose and reason for behaving like snotty scumbags, but every time Roslin addresses them it's like she's holding tea at Space Park's chimp enclosure. I guess that's why I don't really mind, because Roslin doesn't give a damn about the Quorum, she thinks they are snotty scumbags too.

Jeffala
May 18th, 2008, 06:09 PM
Haha, of course they have a purpose and reason for behaving like snotty scumbags, but every time Roslin addresses them it's like she's holding tea at Space Park's chimp enclosure. I guess that's why I don't really mind, because Roslin doesn't give a damn about the Quorum, she thinks they are snotty scumbags too.

I wonder about the political structure of the Twelve Colonies, specifically, if there was any action that the Quorum could take to remove a President and if those rules are still in place among the fleet.

I also wonder if the military (read: Roslin's bed buddy Adama) would allow the lawful removal of the President by the Quorum if it could be justified.

Lady Snow
May 18th, 2008, 09:36 PM
I wonder about the political structure of the Twelve Colonies, specifically, if there was any action that the Quorum could take to remove a President and if those rules are still in place among the fleet.


I'm pretty sure the Vote of No Confidence Lee mentioned to Roslin is a way to get the President out of office.

Agent_Dark
May 18th, 2008, 10:30 PM
It's a little far fetched to me that either Athena or Caprica would tell Baltar that they are sharing visions with Roslin, and I have doubts that Roslin would have told Tory, so how does he know
Caprica Six told Lampkin while he was interviewing her for Baltar's trial, and Lampkin then told Baltar. Baltar said as much in the episode.

Trek_Girl42
May 18th, 2008, 10:50 PM
I'm pretty sure the Vote of No Confidence Lee mentioned to Roslin is a way to get the President out of office.Yup, and gotta wonder, consideringthe pic or clip or whatever from next week's ep might just be the first step there- looked like Lee was being sworn in as something- my presumption would be (temporary or not) Vice President, while Zerak takes over (temporary or not).

Theory: Now what would be interesting, would be if Zerak were made President (or temporary president or whatever the case may be). Roslin, with the Cylons unboxed D'Anna, she told them who the final five were and revealed Zerak as the last Cylon. Roslin and co. would come back, the entire fleet could fall in a state of destruction, and would definitely be in chaos at the least, and part of the mid-season cliffhanger would be with Zerak being the cylon having the power of the feet in hand (possibly by activating hidden programming in the other four). Boom. See you in 2009.
But maybe I should stop crappily pre-writing the show now..... :P

Darth_Bicyclist
May 18th, 2008, 11:03 PM
I never thought of that! That actually makes loads of sense as she did put these actions into effect by allowing the leoben onboard the Dem. and then meeting the baseship. Also in Razor-The first hybrid also said almost the same thing that she will lead them to their death. It would fit that she is the harbringer of death, she will being them all to their end- not of humans, but the cylons.

Dialog from Razor is NOT a spoiler!

While I agree with the idea that the show is now trying to tell us that the "harbinger of death" statement has to do with the destruction of the Resurrection Hub and the subsequent mortality of the Cylons, it's important to remember the actual words of the First Hybrid in Razor:


Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.


So, either the First Hybrid was lying, or didn't get the vision quite right, or the real God, RDM, decided to change this plot point. Or, I'm missing something else....

P.S. It's "harbinger," not "harbringer."

Darth_Bicyclist
May 18th, 2008, 11:18 PM
And I am pretty much with everyone else on this. Gaeta's voice = FTW. That man needs his own album. Screw American Idol, I wanna hear more of Gaeta singing.

Better him than Rachel Luttrell:
http://gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/213.shtml#production

:teyla::jack_new_anime25:

Arturis
May 18th, 2008, 11:21 PM
I wonder about the political structure of the Twelve Colonies, specifically, if there was any action that the Quorum could take to remove a President and if those rules are still in place among the fleet.

I also wonder if the military (read: Roslin's bed buddy Adama) would allow the lawful removal of the President by the Quorum if it could be justified.

Nah, they just wouldn't support Lee militarily and prop up Roslin, petty little dictator that she is, so that Adama can continue to be her wet nurse.

Lady Snow
May 18th, 2008, 11:49 PM
While I agree with the idea that the show is now trying to tell us that the "harbinger of death" statement has to do with the destruction of the Resurrection Hub and the subsequent mortality of the Cylons, it's important to remember the actual words of the First Hybrid in Razor:


Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.


So, either the First Hybrid was lying, or didn't get the vision quite right, or the real God, RDM, decided to change this plot point. Or, I'm missing something else....

Here's where we can play the game "Fun with Pronouns." :D Who is "they"? Humans? Cylons? Is it the same group to whom she is bringing the apocalypse - and is this group the same as the one who gets death?

Oh, prophecy, you tricksy little hobbit.

P-90_177
May 19th, 2008, 01:13 AM
Better him than Rachel Luttrell:
http://gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/213.shtml#production

:teyla::jack_new_anime25:

I really enjoyed Rachel Lutrells singing in that episode. It was fantastic.

But Gaetas was also very good in this one. Not neccesarily becuase he's esspecially good but because there was just so much sorrow and sadness behind his voice.

OfF3nSiV3
May 19th, 2008, 12:09 PM
have you guys realized that TPTB made us care for a Cylon (Natalie) ?!

Trek_Girl42
May 19th, 2008, 12:11 PM
have you guys realized that TPTB made us care for a Cylon (Natalie) ?!They did that ages ago with other cylons. Boomer, Athena, Caprica to an extent. ;)

m57lyra
May 19th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Ok, big job...

I am wondering if anyone got the lyrics that gaeta was singing?

With the whole music/dylan 4 tie-in, I am wondering if his lyrics have anything to do with him being the 5th (not who I want it to be!)

But a lot of it was about a she and losing someone think, so i am wondering if the lyrics were a clue.

m57lyra
May 19th, 2008, 01:37 PM
I could have done without watching Gaeta loose his leg. And I'm sorry, I don't buy letting him be awake for it. That's just silly.



Not silly.

I am betting you have never had a c-section, during which they slice your belly open, extract a baby, then take your uterus out, turn it this way and that, make sure it is ok, rest it on your belly and make sure that everything behind it looks hunkey dorey (since they are in there anyway), do a bit of clean up, then put everything back and zip you up.

And you are completely awake, hear everything, and just have an epidural.

I had two of those. General anethesia is awful stuff. I personally would not choose to be put under unless an epidural wasn't possible.

m57lyra
May 19th, 2008, 01:45 PM
[spoiler]I'm thinking that the confrontation at the Opera House that Athena saw was a plot device to get Natalie into the position of a dying leader (assuming she actually dies).

You don't have to die to have been dying.

You can be dying, but be saved. She's in the running no matter what.

Trek_Girl42
May 19th, 2008, 03:25 PM
Ok, big job...

I am wondering if anyone got the lyrics that gaeta was singing?

With the whole music/dylan 4 tie-in, I am wondering if his lyrics have anything to do with him being the 5th (not who I want it to be!)

But a lot of it was about a she and losing someone think, so i am wondering if the lyrics were a clue.Music and lyrics (http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=349#more-349). Also, if you scroll down to the bottom of the blog entry there's an intriguing bit talking about the role of music in a future BSG episode that's currently filming. No spoilers, but it is very teasing- I'm desperate to know what he's talking about. :P

DigiFluid
May 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM
General anethesia is awful stuff. I personally would not choose to be put under unless an epidural wasn't possible.

I was given a general when I had my wisdom teeth out, no complaints. Except for being woken up later by Nurse Farking Ratchet manhandling my mouth to change the gauze. Wasn't too happy with that.

entil2001
May 19th, 2008, 04:03 PM
By the end of the first act, I understood the transitional nature of this episode, and I concluded that it would be better to sit back and enjoy the ride. After all, the introductory phase of the season arc had taken some time to build momentum, which finally came to fruition with “Faith”, so it only makes sense that the complication phase of the arc would involve a bit of pawn-taking. Sure enough, that’s exactly what happened.

That’s not to say that the episode was without action; it’s just that it was more about careful consideration of specific plot points. It’s very much like a chess game between the Humans and the Cylon Rebels, played out on several levels. And like a chess game, the true intrigue and fascination is not in the checkmate, but in the quiet and delicate movements long before the endgame. Because this season is more serialized than ever before, the nuances require careful attention.

In the larger scheme of things, the proposed alliance between the Humans and Cylon rebels had to be contentious, and it’s great to see all the complications emerge. It’s now perfectly clear why the writers had to build up the tension between the Quorum and Roslin. Without that background, the depth of disagreement between them would have felt abrupt. Natalie’s speech in front of the Quorum was one of the best elements of the episode.

The Cylon civil war, and the deep philosophical differences at its core, was also necessary to explore in previous episodes, because now there’s no question that finding the Final Five is more important to the rebels than the promise of eternal resurrection. This, of course, ties into the many prophecies regarding Kara Thrace. Her role as the “harbinger of death” could very well mean her role in bringing true death to the Cylons. In turn, this makes them more human, and sets the stage for their eventual mergence (in my speculation) with the Colonial survivors.

The topic of Roslin’s visions is also front and center, initially in terms of Baltar’s sermons and then in a far more active role. It always seemed incredibly important that Roslin was sharing the visions with Athena and Caprica Six, but oddly enough, it never occurred to me that Hera would also be actively sharing them. Hera’s dash through Galactica, leading to Natalie’s horribly-timed death, was one of the more disconcerting elements. (The callback to Baltar’s vision from “Kobol’s Last Gleaming” is also a great continuity nod.)

Taken in context with Roslin’s vision and Gaeta’s endless singing, it could be interpreted that Galactica itself is the “Opera House”. After all, if the Final Five are supposed to be in the Opera House, and the Cylon rebels know they’re in the fleet, it all adds up to that possible conclusion. And that makes sense, because if there’s any stage where the final endgame should play out, it’s on the Galactica.

The sudden jump of the rebel basestar, with so many main characters now trapped upon it, should make for some interesting drama. The mission to the resurrection hub may still be viable, if the hybrid leaps to the previously programmed position, but the operation is no longer as relatively clean as it was. In particular, it puts Kara, Roslin, and Baltar all in a unique position to see their destinies unfold.

Kudos must be given to the writers for letting all of the character movements play out with subtlety. Some of the character interactions are more powerful than the snippets of action for a reason. This is an episode that delves into the complex emotions of a sudden and unexpected chance to level the playing field. It might have been a bit better to see some reactions from the command staff regarding the mutiny or the crew of the Demetrius regarding Cally’s death, but there’s really no time for it. The attention is better spent on the varying reactions of the newly revealed Cylons to the new status quo.

Kudos must also go to Mary McDonnell for her performance all season. I don’t know if the actress is intentionally starving herself a bit to sell Roslin’s illness, or if it’s a masterful makeup job, but the effects of the cancer are pronounced. There’s a visceral feeling, just from one look at Roslin, that the end is near, and it helps to sell the notion that her methods are truly driven by that relentless specter.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2008
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

omega431
May 19th, 2008, 06:29 PM
Ok, big job...

I am wondering if anyone got the lyrics that gaeta was singing?

With the whole music/dylan 4 tie-in, I am wondering if his lyrics have anything to do with him being the 5th (not who I want it to be!)

But a lot of it was about a she and losing someone think, so i am wondering if the lyrics were a clue.

See the Bear McCreary blog (http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=349), there is also a thread on his music buried somewhere on here.

Platschu
May 20th, 2008, 09:08 AM
I hope Natalie can be saved by surgery. Maybe she will download her memories (the trap of Centurions!) to one of the Final Five. Maybe the imprisoned Six will touch her hand before her death, so she can inform Adama and Tigh.

SoulReaver
May 20th, 2008, 09:08 AM
And can someone please explain this please? We've seen Cylons resurrected on basestars before, so why the need for a resurrection ship or for that matter a resurrection hub?exactly (though I'm not sure about resurrection on basestars)

why a resurrection hub ? Natalie said the hub controls the resships, but why the hell are the resships remote-controled in the 1st place ? :confused:
cylons upload to the nearest resship so obviously it is that resship that handles all the downloading resurrecting etc. so why does a resship need instructions from yet another ship ? not only does it makes little sense with regards to the previous eps but it makes even less sense in the way of practicality :mckay:


Oooooh, and the unboxing of D'Anna will be very exciting. Tigh and company must be sweating bullets.IMO Tigh doens't have much to worry about

for one thing when found out he can always pretend he never knew who/what he was

second he can tell Adama, Roslin & co exactly what he told his "peers" : 'what about New Caprica ? what about Helen ? etc.'
heck, what about his missing eye ?
of all the main characters he was the one who went through the worst of it - at the hand of the cylons - while Adama & co were sitting in their comfy chairs doing drills & signing papers
obviously the guy who suffered the most at the hands of the enemy has to be a good guy in the eyes of the colonials no ?

Mongoletsi
May 20th, 2008, 10:33 AM
of all the main characters he was the one who went through the worst of it - at the hand of the cylons - while Adama & Roslin were sitting in their comfy chairs doing drills & signing papers
Roslin was on New Caprica mate, got imprisoned, and nearly executed.

You're right though, he's probably suffered the most. Although Gaeta is now sans leg, and was almost airlocked, and was a pariah for most of his time on NC, so he's a contender, not that I want him to be a Cylon.

Hypochondriac
May 20th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I'm interested in seeing how the 3's will reveal the 4 cylons in the fleet. Do you really expect anyone to believe the seconds in command, chief of staff, head mechanic, and former resistance leader are cylons without any proof? I expect them to laugh and say how gullible do you think we are

m57lyra
May 20th, 2008, 12:52 PM
See the Bear McCreary blog (http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=349), there is also a thread on his music buried somewhere on here.

Thank you. Ok, I do not think that my theory that Gaeta is the 5th or Gaeta's song was "calling" the Dylan 4 to their "final programming" (some kind of further awakening stage) based on what I read there (kind of like they were activated by the watchtower transmission). (Glad... for some reason do not want Gaeta to be the 5th!)

Jeffala
May 20th, 2008, 01:36 PM
exactly (though I'm not sure about resurrection on basestars)

why a resurrection hub ? Natalie said the hub controls the resships, but why the hell are the resships remote-controled in the 1st place ? :confused:
cylons upload to the nearest resship so obviously it is that resship that handles all the downloading resurrecting etc. so why does a resship need instructions from yet another ship ? not only does it makes little sense with regards to the previous eps but it makes even less sense in the way of practicality :mckay:

Doesn't downloading copy all of an individual's memories to all other of that model who later come online or download to a new body? The Hub is probably a central repository for that data.

The Resurrection Ships probably aren't remote controlled, but most likely take orders from the Hub and both the Hub and the Ships operate under a different command structure from the rest of the Cylon fleet.

CellarDwellar
May 20th, 2008, 01:40 PM
BAH! My original rant got owned by a computer failure, therefore this is the shorter, less rant-rific version of it full of spoiler tags over my speculation.


1 - Disappointed with this episode! The lack of Baltar was very pleasing, although I was disappointed since last time with our two-timing religious figurehead due to his surprising lack of character.


2 - Not liking the final 5 drag-out. My speculations in the tag.
Tory, Chief, and Anders are hybrids. They're not part of the final 5, but of the original hybrids that came from the final 5.

Sol is the only one who's up for the ballgame there; if I heard right, the hybrid said there was 3 to be revealed. Sol is the eldest, and the final 5 are supposed to be...original? Hm. Hard to say.

Adama knew Sol for 30 years, meeting him 10 years after the cylon war and such; very much so space for the originals to have spawned. The other 3 are just too young.


3 - As I am an Apollo/Starbuck fan, I'm saddened that there was no eye contact, no sigh of relief, no anything; just Apollo lookin' pretty ticked with the President and serious that Rebellion 6 was talking at the front about being mortal, nothing else. Fun times.


4 - Athena > Rebellion 6 comments.
P R E D I C T A B L E A S H E L L.
More predictable than anything else I've seen on this show, and pardon the language, I am absolutely OUTRAGED by it. Hera drawing a bunch of pictures of six, and all the shared visions, pointed a very stern figure towards one of the sixes dying.

Of course, the best one to die for the best twist is, of course, Rebellion 6.
ERROR 1: Athena is not the type to shoot, and kill, someone in front of her daughter Hera, be it an "enemy", cylon, or human.
ERROR 2: Too much lead-up.
ERROR 3: Very bad scene to begin with. So little emotional movement from Athena, and much confusion in Rebellion 6. I felt angry enough to chuck a pillow at my tv, because Athena was so badly played. Hera did beautiful! <3


5 - The lack of Baltar pleases me!


6 - Tory got what she finally deserved, and it fell into character with her afterward emotional bakfhaslgjhkglag and the President's reserved decision making. I'm glad she finally got a kick in the face though, ever since she killed Cally I've been begging for some sort of payback. I'll take this as it.


7 - "Harbringer of death" comment being taken too far /rolls eyes.

It's like the dying leader prophecy; all hoo hash.


8 - The cliff hanger. My god, the cliff hanger. It wasn't even exciting; what's so bad about the opera house? It's a pretty opera house.

I'm joking. I'm probably not going to watch fridays episode, because I have no interest in it and I'd rather go chill at Anime North in Toronto then sit in front of the tv at the right time to watch some naked hybrid babble nonsense to a prophecy-sick cancer lady.

9 - (EDIT) The Ressurection Hub, the main one, is bull. I don't honestly believe that the cylons would be as foolish as to have a main hub that, if destroyed, all other ones would lose capability of allowing downloads; I mean, come on. They're artificial intelligence, and I know humans wouldn't be that idiotic. So why should robots?

It just doesn't flow well.

SoulReaver
May 20th, 2008, 02:46 PM
Roslin was on New Caprica mate, got imprisoned, and nearly executed.duh - my bad m8...somehow even after seeing her in that cylon jail I still have trouble picturing her anywhere other than sitting at a desk :jonas12:


You're right though, he's probably suffered the most. Although Gaeta is now sans leg, and was almost airlocked, and was a pariah for most of his time on NC, so he's a contender, not that I want him to be a Cylon.'cept that Tigh was tortured at the hands of the enemy, it wasn't some internal strife or something. and as you said Gaeta was once a suspect, and hey he spent most of his time in an office whereas Tigh was either in an enemy holding cell or out there fighting the enemy (using very questionable methods at times, admittedly). so in terms of treason his record is "clean", officially at any rate
Gaeta may be a candidate but doesn't come close to being a serious contender
Saul Tigh is very likely the one Deanna apologized to when she was having that vision of the final5



Doesn't downloading copy all of an individual's memories to all other of that model who later come online or download to a new body? come again ? :confused:


The Hub is probably a central repository for that data.if that were so then why does a resship need to be in relative proximity to the cylon ? if their memories are uploaded to the hub (to be later transmitted to a resship & dumped into a clone) then distance between cylon & resship should not factor in...

Jeffala
May 20th, 2008, 03:18 PM
come again ? :confused:

When Boomer was killed on Galactica and later downloaded, her individual memories were transferred to the other Eights who later downloaded or were brought online.

I.E. Athena had the memories of Boomer when she downloaded after Helo shot her so she could rescue Hera.


I could have sworn that that's what one of the Sixes said on the captured base star.

ToasterOnFire
May 20th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Another great ep with shocker after shocker. The basestar jump, Tory's secrets revealed, Hera acting all creepy (what's with people obsessively drawing things on this show?) Athena shooting Natalie, the hybrid freaking out. Awesome. I hope it keeps on going like this until the end.

I missed it - was there a reason why the basestar and the Demetrius had to jump simultaneously? Why didn't the Demetrius jump first to warn the RTF of what was coming?

Tigh practically foaming at the mouth to blow up the boxed 3s, hahaha! :D

Did Leoben set up the hybrid jump and are the humans within now the hostages that the cylons discussed earlier? Or was it all the hybrid?

Lee is still a waste of space. I wouldn't be surprised if TPTB are setting up a Lee/Zarek takeover, whether with Roslin's blessing or not, but man I just can't stand righteous!Lee. Shut up, Lee.

While I thought Gaeta's singing was lovely, it was featured way too much for my tastes. Two cut scenes of it was plenty.

Trek_Girl42
May 20th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Saul Tigh is very likely the one Deanna apologized to when she was having that vision of the final5
Nah, I'm thinking Anders. D'Anna tried to shoot Anders with that giant gun when they were trapped in the stairwell in Downloaded. The only reason she didn't succeed was because Six dropped a rock on her head.
I missed it - was there a reason why the basestar and the Demetrius had to jump simultaneously? Why didn't the Demetrius jump first to warn the RTF of what was coming? Drama. :D

At least I don't think there was an explanation. But I was a bit distracted at the beginning of the ep. Either way, it'll probably be covered on the podcast as a contrivance for more action. Not complaining! But where is that podcast anyway?????

m57lyra
May 20th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Sol is the only one who's up for the ballgame there; if I heard right, the hybrid said there was 3 to be revealed. Sol is the eldest, and the final 5 are supposed to be...original? Hm. Hard to say.



The hybrid didn't say that. She said that the 3 would led them to the 5.

Meaning: De'Anna, the boxed 3 model - who saw the 5 in the temple right before she kicked the bucket for the last time.

De'Anna, "the 3", knows who the 5 are, and can lead everyone to them.

SoulReaver
May 21st, 2008, 01:17 AM
When Boomer was killed on Galactica and later downloaded, her individual memories were transferred to the other Eights who later downloaded or were brought online.in other words her memories were copied to several clones ? :confused: there are several Athenas with the same memories ? if so which would be the "correct" one ? (and how would they decide ? -)


I.E. Athena had the memories of Boomer when she downloaded after Helo shot her so she could rescue Hera.

I could have sworn that that's what one of the Sixes said on the captured base star.so each cylon has the combined personalities of all its model's clones ? (talk about schizophrenia http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif)

SoulReaver
May 21st, 2008, 01:24 AM
Nah, I'm thinking Anders. D'Anna tried to shoot Anders with that giant gun when they were trapped in the stairwell in Downloaded. The only reason she didn't succeed was because Six dropped a rock on her head.ha yeah I'd forgotten about that one
still compared to Tigh, Anders got off prett ywell. Deanna threatened Anders but never made good on her threat (thanks to cap6) plus he still has his 2 eyes anyway

you're prolly right though since it was Deanna it must've been Anders...

I wonder how Cavil would react before the 5, especially before Tigh (I'm not 100% sure he'd apologize :-)

GateofDOOM
May 21st, 2008, 01:39 AM
I sure didn't recognize Lee Adama at the beginning of the episode when he was demanding answers to Baltar's accusations. Since when has Lee paid any attention to Baltar anyway?
He was a little better in the later scene when he told Roslin that the Quorum was considering a vote of no-confidence.

At this point Lee feels pretty useless. He's been shoved into a position that doesn't entirely fit his character (it's close, but no cigar) and he's been getting pretty limited screen time because he's just not that important to the overall plot right now. As someone who liked Lee in season 1-3, I'm starting to get annoyed. When will we see the old Lee again? When will the reason that Lee needed to be moved be revealed?

Otherwise the episode was pretty good. If not as good as "Faith" IMO.

The thing that has me smiling is that Helo is now stranded on base ship full of eights who now (presumably) have some of Athena's memories. Oh Boy is that gonna be awkward! :D
...I hope!

Jeffala
May 21st, 2008, 05:15 AM
in other words her memories were copied to several clones ? :confused: there are several Athenas with the same memories ? if so which would be the "correct" one ? (and how would they decide ? -)

so each cylon has the combined personalities of all its model's clones ? (talk about schizophrenia http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif)

No, I don't think so. Leave the personalities out of the equation for a minute.

When an individual downloads, her memories are copied to the Resurrection Ship (and presumably the Hub). When other individuals within that model download, a copy of those memories are included along with all of the memories of the other individuals of that model.

As for several Athenas, I don't think that's the case. As we've seen, Boomer is very different from Athena and Natalie is very different from Caprica Six. Their personalities are different even though they contain the same data.


This is just a theory based on what I think I heard in the dialog.

SoulReaver
May 21st, 2008, 12:55 PM
No, I don't think so. Leave the personalities out of the equation for a minute.

When an individual downloads, her memories are copied to the Resurrection Ship (and presumably the Hub). When other individuals within that model download, a copy of those memories are included along with all of the memories of the other individuals of that model.

As for several Athenas, I don't think that's the case. As we've seen, Boomer is very different from Athena and Natalie is very different from Caprica Six. Their personalities are different even though they contain the same data.


This is just a theory based on what I think I heard in the dialog.good - which brings us back to the original question : why a hub for resurrection ? leave the other individuals out for a moment (a hub can be used as a repository for all cylons, yes, but that's another matter - we're talking about the resurrection of an individual, not storage)
when one cylon gets killed why the need for a hub when a resship alone should suffice ? Gina said resships have all the necessary equipment, so just download memories to nearest resship's system, and from resship system into new clone & presto, one cylon resurrected

m57lyra
May 21st, 2008, 01:45 PM
good - which brings us back to the original question : why a hub for resurrection ? leave the other individuals out for a moment (a hub can be used as a repository for all cylons, yes, but that's another matter - we're talking about the resurrection of an individual, not storage)
when one cylon gets killed why the need for a hub when a resship alone should suffice ? Gina said resships have all the necessary equipment, so just download memories to nearest resship's system, and from resship system into new clone & presto, one cylon resurrected

Ooooooo - I loves me a good game of shoot the Continuity Editor...

So, what you say is true UNLESS... the hub is like a client/server (being the server side) that has to authorize a d/l (a client operation) into a new body. No one ever said the resships are standalone (no one ever said they *weren't* either, granted).

FTR - my favourite continuity bloop is the Die Hard scene (Die Hard 2?) suposedly in Washington National Airport where Bruse Willis uses a PcBell public phone. Ooopses!

SoulReaver
May 21st, 2008, 03:03 PM
Ooooooo - I loves me a good game of shoot the Continuity Editor...

So, what you say is true UNLESS... the hub is like a client/server (being the server side) that has to authorize a d/l (a client operation) into a new body. No one ever said the resships are standalonewell yeah that's kinda the point : why shouldn't they be standalone ?
why bother with such a server to start with ? (at least for resurrection anyway)
why would the cylons thrust spokes in their own wheels ? (unless it's for the sheer challenge of it, still, makes 'em kinda masochistic doesn't it ?)

while we're at it why not have all those hubs act in turn as clients connected to one giant megahub ?
I mean they've done such fine work @ complicating things thus far, why stop there ? http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif

UNRE4L
May 21st, 2008, 04:50 PM
I loved the episode tbh. The storyline is still very appealing, unlike stargate where I just dont see anything specific happening.

wiseowl777
May 21st, 2008, 09:48 PM
2 things:

-whats with the numbering on the cylons... now that we def know for sure that we have 1-6,8... why is 7 lacking/ out of order? (traitor in the mist maybe?)

-my theory on the kara/harbinger thing: it would be in my opinion a real bad ending to see the cylons win and us not get to earth. having said that - perhaps we defeat the cylons, and make it to earth, and what we find on earth is what brings death to the rest of the RTF. perhaps they are all cylons on earth and discover what was done to their brothers and sisters and send a couple of nukes at galactica and the fleet just as we arrive there. every1 dies, cylon, colonials and earth is left alone once again...
(id say its a fair twist, given how the show has gone thus far)


-as a funny aside... any1 ever realize that in the visions baltar andthe c6 always walk out the doors of the opera house main hall into this mysterious bright light... its just the lobby of opera house! maybe their visions are just about how hera ran out of popcorn and wanted a refill! :cameron:

Albee
May 22nd, 2008, 04:15 AM
-whats with the numbering on the cylons... now that we def know for sure that we have 1-6,8... why is 7 lacking/ out of order? (traitor in the mist maybe?)


I've been wondering about that as well. Is the final cylon number 7?

Lady Snow
May 22nd, 2008, 04:52 AM
-as a funny aside... any1 ever realize that in the visions baltar andthe c6 always walk out the doors of the opera house main hall into this mysterious bright light... its just the lobby of opera house! maybe their visions are just about how hera ran out of popcorn and wanted a refill! :cameron:

Actually, they're walking back into the opera house, as the vision keeps getting clearer. This last time we saw it, there were seats and the stage visible. I think... I'm trying to hunt down a screencap to make sure. But it would make sense, since the Five have only ever been revealed inside the theater proper, not outside.

Chev's Ron
May 22nd, 2008, 07:14 AM
good - which brings us back to the original question : why a hub for resurrection ? leave the other individuals out for a moment (a hub can be used as a repository for all cylons, yes, but that's another matter - we're talking about the resurrection of an individual, not storage)
when one cylon gets killed why the need for a hub when a resship alone should suffice ? Gina said resships have all the necessary equipment, so just download memories to nearest resship's system, and from resship system into new clone & presto, one cylon resurrected

Actually there is only one way that makes since, when we last destroyed a Ressurection Ship we were told that would keep them from ressurecting... for a time. But since we have found out numberous ressurection ships are in existance, perhaps they are being BUILT at a central Hub.

This hub would store the blueprints and the hardware necessary to construct more resurrection ships, once it is destroyed, the cylons only have a limited number of ships. Destroy the rest and "presto" the cylons lose their ability to resurrect.

Now unless the ships and the skinjobs were created by people from Earth as has been speculated, the cylons eventually could replicate the factory-hub and build more ships, but it would take a long time to do so. More than enough time for the colonials to kill many of the cylons.:)

MarshAngel
May 22nd, 2008, 08:12 AM
I haven't thought this through completely but the resurrection hub might be where the replacement bodies are grown and then placed in storage on resurrection ships to be used when a cylon gets killed and downloaded. Resurrection ships would need to be swapped out with fresh ones, while the empty ones return to the hub for new bodies. Once the hub is destroyed, no new bodies. You can only download to what's in existence. Once that's done, there is no more. The consciousnesses might exist within the resurrection ships but with nowhere to go.

SoulReaver
May 22nd, 2008, 08:38 AM
Actually there is only one way that makes since, when we last destroyed a Ressurection Ship we were told that would keep them from ressurecting... for a time. But since we have found out numberous ressurection ships are in existance, perhaps they are being BUILT at a central Hub.

This hub would store the blueprints and the hardware necessary to construct more resurrection ships, once it is destroyed, the cylons only have a limited number of ships. Destroy the rest and "presto" the cylons lose their ability to resurrect.

Now unless the ships and the skinjobs were created by people from Earth as has been speculated, the cylons eventually could replicate the factory-hub and build more ships, but it would take a long time to do so. More than enough time for the colonials to kill many of the cylons.:)
I haven't thought this through completely but the resurrection hub might be where the replacement bodies are grown and then placed in storage on resurrection ships to be used when a cylon gets killed and downloaded. Resurrection ships would need to be swapped out with fresh ones, while the empty ones return to the hub for new bodies. Once the hub is destroyed, no new bodies. You can only download to what's in existence. Once that's done, there is no more. The consciousnesses might exist within the resurrection ships but with nowhere to go.now these theories at least make some sense :tealc:

it wouldn't prevent the cylons from downloading in the immediate future but it would represent a logistic catastrophe by crippling their resources
(of course on the other hand their only threat is in the form of a single damaged battlestar - for the colonials to kill all of them would take far longer than to rebuild a new hub IMO)

problem is that's not what Natalie said - what she said implied that destroying the hub would prevent all downloads ie. with immediate effect. she seemed quite categorical too (unless she was lying, but this would mean she was lying to the quorum as well)

SoulReaver
May 22nd, 2008, 08:50 AM
btw ppl have been theorizing aboiut Caprica6 being pregnant in the next ep and said it's Tigh


but why would it necessarily be Tigh ?

- for one it would draw too much attention to a guy who's desperately trying to keep off the humans' radars now that he knows what he is
if Adama & co. learnt that during all this time when he was supposed to be interrogating a cylon prisoner he was instead being nice to her (too nice -), this would definitely throw up a red flag

- besides it's true that Cap6's been locked up in that cage for a spell, so she has...needs. but Tigh ? come on - she can't be that desperate can she ? :/

- for Cap6's pregnancy to be noticed in the next ep would mean that several months would've elapsed in the space of just 2 episodes. such a mid-season time-jump would be a first in the series. besides it wouldn't fit with s4's "seamless" storyline so far (the chain of events from s4 premiere up to the last episode has had no "rupture" as of yet & could be considered one big episode)



now on the other hand : how long has she been in that cell ?
she came onboard the BSG ~20 eps ago (in ep 3x12). how long is that - a few months at most ?
and how long does it take to notice a bun in the oven - 5 months ? give or take a few weeks depending on the patient, size of foetus etc.
before she was captured she was onboard a basestar spending her time with none other than...Gaius Baltar. remember in the beginning of s3 when she told Baltar she used to think they'd have a kid ? ('I used to think you & I would have a baby one day' - ep 3x05)
now we know that it's more difficult for cylons to procreate (cylon hormones are a bit more finicky perhaps -) but we also know another thing, that Cap6 was really, reeeeeally attached to Baltar. heck he was her 1st luv after all - so that Baltar & Cap6 could have a hybrid offspring on the way is quite plausible, and as I pointed out it would tally with the timeline

m57lyra
May 22nd, 2008, 09:20 AM
This hub would store the blueprints and the hardware necessary to construct more resurrection ships, once it is destroyed, the cylons only have a limited number of ships. Destroy the rest and "presto" the cylons lose their ability to resurrect.

But hello?! After 5k years don't you think everyone would have embraced the idea of multiple offsite backups and disaster recovery protocols?

DarkSullivan
May 22nd, 2008, 10:20 AM
It's a little far fetched to me that either Athena or Caprica would tell Baltar that they are sharing visions with Roslin, and I have doubts that Roslin would have told Tory, so how does he know?

And frankly I'm not sure I have any sympathy for Lee's position. He's playing puppet to Gaius Baltar now? Playing puppet to Tom Zarek wasn't enough? Sorry RDM, you still haven't found that character.

The tension of the baseship jumping into the fleet was totally great. Exactly how I imagined it. Also, I love the look in Adama's face when Tigh orders weapons hold. It's not the first time he's done something instinctual in a crisis, but i have a feeling Bill knows there is something different about that one.

I would have liked to have seen Six land on galactica, but the scene between her and the president and admiral was really interesting in it's dynamic. Does Natalie think all the humans care about is revenge? That says a lot about her comment last week about human justice.

I could have done without some of the meaningful looks between the final four. And frankly the humans would be idiots or should be idiots for not realizing the last cylons would be among them. I think their paranoia has died down a little too much.

I could have done without watching Gaeta loose his leg. And I'm sorry, I don't buy letting him be awake for it. That's just silly.

So everyone is lying. That's doesn't have good consequences if they both carrying out their plans. I've been saying all season that Natalie is Laura Roslin's love child, but I think I'm more right in that joke than I ever wanted to be. You can't have two Laura's facing each other.

The CGI of the interior of the baseship is pretty amazing. As is hte idea that it can heal itself.

The four are undermining the fleet by trying to save their lives. They might as well put a gun to the heads of their friends.

I think Laura was more upset with Tory for sleeping with Baltar than for the religious conversion. Which is what I had predicted before. Tory looked crushed. I think Laura is her only connection to humanity these days. The question I was left with, was why didn't Laura ask Tory if she had started the rumors? She would be the obvious candidate especially if Laura thinks her friendship means "frak". Which by the way, was the most awkward usage of the word.

Gaeta's voice FTW.

Oh, Caprica told him. That still seems unlikely, but I suppose it's true.

Natalie is the dying leader.

Natalie's speech about dying, while standing next to a clearly dying Laura Roslin is just one of the most amazing pieces of rhetoric in the entire series. I'm not sure it can save Laura's presidency. She's become too inhuman. The fact that no one laughed at the joke about compassion really shows it. The actors playing Quorum members were pretty dead eyed. But that might be because they're actors with no lines who probably don't really understand the profound nature of what they've been told. That's the problem with having them suddenly show up this late in the series. You haven't built up any attachment to them.

Oh, new Opera House stuff. Mary looks odd in a bald cap. She has too much hair under it that it makes her head look massive.

Little kid saying byebye is creepy as hell.

She's got to know the truth of the visions. I think that's understandable.

I guess that answers one of the questions about the Last Supper picture. We know who Natalie is accusing. I hope she's not dead. I'm far too attached to that character.

I knew about the abduction ahead of time, but I was still loving it, and loving the music.
I have never thought of that. And if Natalie dies she might ressurect because just as she was shot the base star jumped away. They might be near a ressurection ship.

m57lyra
May 22nd, 2008, 11:25 AM
I have never thought of that. And if Natalie dies she might ressurect because just as she was shot the base star jumped away. They might be near a ressurection ship.

Natalie was aboard Galactica when shot, not the base star.

Mongoletsi
May 22nd, 2008, 04:12 PM
righteous!Lee
"righteous not Lee"?

Wish ppl would stop doing that ;)

Jeffala
May 22nd, 2008, 05:23 PM
"righteous not Lee"?

Wish ppl would stop doing that ;)

What I love is that it could also be read "Rightous bang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark) Lee".

CellarDwellar
May 22nd, 2008, 07:13 PM
"righteous not Lee"?

Wish ppl would stop doing that ;)

I never considered Lee righteous. Is he righteous? o_O What they're having his character do now, is a bit out there imo. I always figured him self-serving and stupid. >_>

I'm still a little curious how the actor changes his entire accent...my first theory was being kicked in a sensitive area every time he goes on stage xD

Chev's Ron
May 22nd, 2008, 10:28 PM
But hello?! After 5k years don't you think everyone would have embraced the idea of multiple offsite backups and disaster recovery protocols?

True, assuming the cylons were existing 5k years ago. (the earth origin theory) Also, no show is perfect, I hope this actually isn't a plothole, but It may be.

Finally, the cylons could have become complacent, they are only skinjobs after all.;) Perhaps the jumping ability of the HUB made them feel impervious. Similar to the colonials on New Caprica. Hidden in nebula's and hard to find.

Still, it is a big plothole, but I cannot think of another reason for the destruction of the hub to halt or severly hinder ressurection.

Argh, one more week to go!

Skydiver
May 23rd, 2008, 08:57 AM
I haven't thought this through completely but the resurrection hub might be where the replacement bodies are grown and then placed in storage on resurrection ships to be used when a cylon gets killed and downloaded. Resurrection ships would need to be swapped out with fresh ones, while the empty ones return to the hub for new bodies. Once the hub is destroyed, no new bodies. You can only download to what's in existence. Once that's done, there is no more. The consciousnesses might exist within the resurrection ships but with nowhere to go.
that actually makes sense. the hubs make/distribute the bodies, and the res ships just use their inventory to complete the download.

probably what is biting the cylons in the tush is....every cylon 'grows up' independantly. meaning, all the ginas, in the beginning, were imprinted with the same memory set and attitudes, etc. but, as they learn and grow and die and are reborn, every gina slowly becomes different as she is altered by her life experiences. All the ginas may look the same and may have started from the same 'zero point' but they are all different now, as governed by thier experiences.

Kinda like how you could take two identitical twins, separate them at birth, raise them in different surroundings adn end up with two totally different entities, even though, genetically, they are identitical.

Every time a specific six resurrects, she changes a bit. she's altered by what she's learned and experienced.

It's also possible that, the six's that remain within the cylon ranks, thus never really experience anything different, don't change much, while the sixes that are out and about and out of contact with others, learn and grow and change.

and i think this 'growth' is something the cylons didn't count on when they made the skin jobs. I think they underestimated how much a model can change, thus were caught unawares by the changes and simply couldn't conceive that 'one of their own' might be different.

An-Alteran
May 23rd, 2008, 06:16 PM
...Kinda like how you could take two identitical twins, separate them at birth, raise them in different surroundings adn end up with two totally different entities, even though, genetically, they are identitical...
Actually that will happen anyway, even if they are raised together.

Mongoletsi
May 23rd, 2008, 06:37 PM
Argh, one more week to go!
Had forgotten about that! So there was no need for this Brit to stay up then...

Skydiver
May 23rd, 2008, 07:58 PM
Actually that will happen anyway, even if they are raised together.
true. but i would think the further your average cylon is from the 'cult' of the hive, the more they can change.

two sixes live in the compound, they change a little, but if a third six spends her whole life on Tauron, she'll change more since she has less influence from others and more from humans

AeronPrometheus
May 23rd, 2008, 08:09 PM
good - which brings us back to the original question : why a hub for resurrection ? leave the other individuals out for a moment (a hub can be used as a repository for all cylons, yes, but that's another matter - we're talking about the resurrection of an individual, not storage)
when one cylon gets killed why the need for a hub when a resship alone should suffice ? Gina said resships have all the necessary equipment, so just download memories to nearest resship's system, and from resship system into new clone & presto, one cylon resurrected

If I may use a computer reference...

Consider the Base Stars computers accessing the internet. They have raw bodies stored on their ships to allow skin jobs to resurrect right? Now picture the Resurrection Ships as wireless access points. They control the software (The download) and the ships have to be within range to get a signal. Now the Resurrection Hub is... a hub. The place where the wireless internet is distributed to the Rez Ships and therefore the Base Stars. The Hub also probably has stores of raw bodies, replacement Raiders, original software backups, etc.

As a computer oriented person it makes a lot of sense, they are after all computers. Although everyone who pointed it out is right, the Cylons aren't that good and making backups. However, there turned out to be additional Rez Ships, watch there be additional Hubs.

Aeron

SoulReaver
May 23rd, 2008, 08:34 PM
If I may use a computer reference...

Consider the Base Stars computers accessing the internet. They have raw bodies stored on their ships to allow skin jobs to resurrect right? Now picture the Resurrection Ships as wireless access points. They control the software (The download) and the ships have to be within range to get a signal. Now the Resurrection Hub is... a hub. The place where the wireless internet is distributed to the Rez Ships and therefore the Base Stars. The Hub also probably has stores of raw bodies, replacement Raiders, original software backups, etc.ok but why would they need a hub (or an "internet") to ressurrect when a simple LAN (to pick on on the analogy) suffices ? nearby resship picks up signal, extracts data therein, dumps data into onboard clone & finito. no need to use a network to that effect (though of course like I said it would serve other purposes). that'd be kinda like using 2 faxes just to make a [local] photocopy...

btw have skinjobs ever resurrected on a basestar ? :tealcanime49:


As a computer oriented person it makes a lot of sense, they are after all computerswho, the skinjobs ? :confused: not really

AeronPrometheus
May 24th, 2008, 03:04 PM
ok but why would they need a hub (or an "internet") to ressurrect when a simple LAN (to pick on on the analogy) suffices ? nearby resship picks up signal, extracts data therein, dumps data into onboard clone & finito. no need to use a network to that effect (though of course like I said it would serve other purposes). that'd be kinda like using 2 faxes just to make a [local] photocopy...

What if the Hub is connected to the Cylon homeworld? We don't yet know the scope of this network, we just became aware of the Hub in the last couple of episodes. So the Hub is connected to an ISP of sorts. :P

It may look like all that is needed is a LAN, all we see is the same data coming back to where it was before it got lost, but if any of the mixed memories stuff is to be believed then perhaps all that data gets ricocheted to who knows where, filed and sorted (defragged? analyzed by others?), before coming back over the network.

As for the fax machine analogy... If I want to use my cell phone to call someone who's standing three feet away from me on their cell phone I still have to relay the signal to a cell tower, then the comm center, then back through the towers to the other guy's phone. Sure it'd be a lot simpler if I could (within a given range) go from phone to phone (and there are phones that do that) but that's mostly how things work. Who said the Cylons are anymore organized? They accidentally left the OG hybrid floating in space with obsolete Cylons!


btw have skinjobs ever resurrected on a basestar ? :tealcanime49:

Thought they did, or are they afterwards shipped to their corresponding Base Star? That's a hell of waste jumping to the nearest Rez Ship everytime someone dies.


who, the skinjobs ? :confused: not really

Yeah in a sense, they're flesh and bone but they're also software. How else would Boomer have been able send a virus to the Base Star by sticking a fiber optic cable into her arm? Oh and the glowing backbone looks real natural. ;)

SoulReaver
May 24th, 2008, 04:35 PM
u know, I thought of that mobile phone analogy - however is there's a fundamental difference : when you call someone your call is explicitly directed at that person. it is they you seek & no one else. hence the need for "hubs" to identify caller & callee

a more valid analogy would be a Talkie-Walkie broadcasting a signal for any nearby (and correctly tuned) TW to pick up. a skinj doesn't care where he or she uploads - any properly equiped & functional resship in a relative vicinity is all it takes


They accidentally left the OG hybrid floating in space with obsolete Cylons!"OG hybrid" ??
if you're talking about that old-man hybrid, wasn't he a construction of those older cylons ? :tealcanime49:


Thought they did, or are they afterwards shipped to their corresponding Base Star? That's a hell of waste jumping to the nearest Rez Ship everytime someone dies.maybe basestars also have resurrection equipment but nowhere near enough resources (clones) to handle wide-scale resurrections (like another basestar blowing up)


Yeah in a sense, they're flesh and bone but they're also software. How else would Boomer have been able send a virus to the Base Star by sticking a fiber optic cable into her arm? Oh and the glowing backbone looks real natural. ;)then is 7 of 9 also a computer ? ;)

ToasterOnFire
May 24th, 2008, 05:03 PM
"righteous not Lee"?

Wish ppl would stop doing that ;)
Yes, since you took the time to point that out twice I'll take the time to inform you that your wish has been both registered and rejected. Oh, and you may want to avoid the TWOP forum too. Carry on. :)

AeronPrometheus
May 25th, 2008, 12:23 AM
u know, I thought of that mobile phone analogy - however is there's a fundamental difference : when you call someone your call is explicitly directed at that person. it is they you seek & no one else. hence the need for "hubs" to identify caller & callee

a more valid analogy would be a Talkie-Walkie broadcasting a signal for any nearby (and correctly tuned) TW to pick up. a skinj doesn't care where he or she uploads - any properly equiped & functional resship in a relative vicinity is all it takes

*shrugs*, I'm leaning towards the "we don't yet see the whole picture" idea and the Rez Hub serves more than a tertiary purpose.


"OG hybrid" ??
if you're talking about that old-man hybrid, wasn't he a construction of those older cylons ? :tealcanime49:

Yes. Remember Razor? Boomer said that when the return for decommissioning signal was given not all the old Cylons came back.


maybe basestars also have resurrection equipment but nowhere near enough resources (clones) to handle wide-scale resurrections (like another basestar blowing up)

Yeah, that would be the job of a couple Rez Ships probably, but it's logical to assume (And I swear they mentioned this on a 3rd season episode) that they'd be able to pick up stragglers straight from a Base Star.


then is 7 of 9 also a computer ? ;)

No, Seven is a cyborg. A lesser one now, but some of the tech had to be left in place to keep her alive. She started human and was given implants. Boomer was from the start; software in an artificially grown body. Big difference.

SoulReaver
May 25th, 2008, 04:09 AM
No, Seven is a cyborg. A lesser one now, but some of the tech had to be left in place to keep her alive. She started human and was given implants. Boomer was from the start; software in an artificially grown body. Big difference.a cyborg is a technologically enhanced organism so Boomer pretty much qualifies... Boomer may be able to control computers & broadcast her memories & all the rest of it thanks to...whatever circuitry...but at the core she's still organic if not human. technically speaking she's even less of a cyborg than 7 of 9 for at least one reason : her "mechanical/organic" ratio is way, way lower than Seven's (we can see that, and also for the fact that even closer scrutiny cannot tell the difference between cylons & humans : whatever silica pathways or machinery the cylons have is in infinitesimal quantity). also Seven needs her borg implants to live which means the technological components are so intertwined with her organic self that they might as well be be considered an integral part of her (ie. she's even "more" than just a cyborg as the implants' purpose is more than mere enhancement), whereas for the cylons...we don't know :| (what happens if the embedded circuitry is somehow removed - do they just live as humans unable to download or are they too unable to survive ?)

the fact the Seven was born whereas Boomer not is kinda irrelevant (what about those borg babies in TnG ? they couldn't have been born, and the nanites & implants or whatever were included as they were grown so they started off as cyborgs). if a "pure" human were grown instead of born (SW clone trooper-style) would that make it any less human than one who came into the world in ole fashion ? (in a way clone troopers would appear even less humans than the cylons as the cylons as least can override their conditioning - even Boomer did, to a degree - whereas the troopers, despite not being cyborgs, cannot)
heck even the colonial military's troopers appear less human. they make excellent drones with little if any free will (must be some good "programming" eh ?) - they're more like centurions, lol

Deckker
May 25th, 2008, 06:00 AM
Depending on the nature of the systems design, they may not have the ability to build a network of such redundancy for a network of such a scale. They do have a limited range still.

The Cylon Homeworld, probably does have a resurrections system. However due to the distance they have traveled. I think its safe to say they have travelled some 1,000 light years already. Not a unreasonable number if you think about it. They would need to make their central systems mobile and the cost of making several mobile HQ is prohibitive.

So My guess, is that when the Cyclons decided to move to Earth, they spend an enormous amount of resources to uproot everything and make them mobile and move. The undertaking of any long -term voyage is surely limited by the lack of raw materials .

While the human fleet was rag tag, the cyclon prepared themselves for a long journey.

This is my thought, in the end, there is not enough genetic material to repopulate the human race, the remanding genetic will come from the cyclons.

Deckker
May 25th, 2008, 06:00 AM
dp

AeronPrometheus
May 25th, 2008, 11:37 AM
a cyborg is a technologically enhanced organism so Boomer pretty much qualifies... Boomer may be able to control computers & broadcast her memories & all the rest of it thanks to...whatever circuitry...but at the core she's still organic if not human. technically speaking she's even less of a cyborg than 7 of 9 for at least one reason : her "mechanical/organic" ratio is way, way lower than Seven's (we can see that, and also for the fact that even closer scrutiny cannot tell the difference between cylons & humans : whatever silica pathways or machinery the cylons have is in infinitesimal quantity). also Seven needs her borg implants to live which means the technological components are so intertwined with her organic self that they might as well be be considered an integral part of her (ie. she's even "more" than just a cyborg as the implants' purpose is more than mere enhancement), whereas for the cylons...we don't know :| (what happens if the embedded circuitry is somehow removed - do they just live as humans unable to download or are they too unable to survive ?)

the fact the Seven was born whereas Boomer not is kinda irrelevant (what about those borg babies in TnG ? they couldn't have been born, and the nanites & implants or whatever were included as they were grown so they started off as cyborgs). if a "pure" human were grown instead of born (SW clone trooper-style) would that make it any less human than one who came into the world in ole fashion ? (in a way clone troopers would appear even less humans than the cylons as the cylons as least can override their conditioning - even Boomer did, to a degree - whereas the troopers, despite not being cyborgs, cannot)
heck even the colonial military's troopers appear less human. they make excellent drones with little if any free will (must be some good "programming" eh ?) - they're more like centurions, lol

Okay... Semantics aside the origins of Seven and Boomer are starkly different.

Yeah you can pretty much be liberal when labeling what they are when all is said and done and I agree that it's the viewpoint that sets them apart.

(We have a nice collection of "drones" of our own waging war in the desert right now)

Cylons began and slaves, they broke away, created their own elite humans to replace the sentient Centurions (Psychologically, they needed to take the place of their human oppressors), they built their own slaves the new Centurions, and now those are sentient and on the verge of breaking away.

As far as the show is concerned, they're computers because humans can step back and look at their evolutionary path and go "We started this whole thing". It's a parallel to what we are and what -we- are evolving into. What is out there right now stepping back, looking at us, and going "We started this whole thing"?

P.S. Seven of Nine was not incubated on a Borg ship, she was captured at a young age on her parent's exploration ship; the Raven. I'm so pathetic that I remember all this. :daniel:

SoulReaver
May 25th, 2008, 12:00 PM
yeah Anika & her parents were assimilated because the multispectral cloaking on their shuttle failed for a brief moment allowing the borg cube they were trailing to detect them
/ST-g33k & proud of it http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/dave%20mustaine.gif

btw we're computers too http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/idee.gif (ok so we're born & we reproduce but then again do do the replicators -)

AeronPrometheus
May 25th, 2008, 03:21 PM
multispectral cloaking

That was such a cheap plot device. :P Why couldn't they be inventive and have the ship ducking in and out of an asteroid field? Cause if the Borg took their technology like they're suppose to, all the cubes should now be able to "multi-spectral" cloak.

...Waaay off topic (Proud Trekkie for 15 years)

Jeffala
May 25th, 2008, 03:43 PM
That was such a cheap plot device. :P Why couldn't they be inventive and have the ship ducking in and out of an asteroid field? Cause if the Borg took their technology like they're suppose to, all the cubes should now be able to "multi-spectral" cloak.

...Waaay off topic (Proud Trekkie for 15 years)

The Raven didn't have a cloaking device. It had "multi-adaptive shielding" that preventing the cubes' sensors from detecting the ship.

SoulReaver
May 25th, 2008, 05:47 PM
they called it 'multispectral shielding' but technically it was a cloak, and - afaik - only a cloak (shield => protection against weapons, cloak => protection against sensors)


cause if the Borg took their technology like they're suppose to, all the cubes should now be able to "multi-spectral" cloak.in Dark Frontier iirc Queeno said they'd assimilated that tech which means borg sensors can now defeat it
and since that tech was meant to be effective against mostly borg sensors the borg have no use for it

besides cloaking ain't exactly the borg's MO
the 800-pound gorilla does what it wants & lets everyone know it. it doesn't need to hide nor does it want to http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/knyten.gif

AeronPrometheus
May 25th, 2008, 09:49 PM
they called it 'multispectral shielding' but technically it was a cloak, and - afaik - only a cloak (shield => protection against weapons, cloak => protection against sensors)

in Dark Frontier iirc Queeno said they'd assimilated that tech which means borg sensors can now defeat it
and since that tech was meant to be effective against mostly borg sensors the borg have no use for it

besides cloaking ain't exactly the borg's MO
the 800-pound gorilla does what it wants & lets everyone know it. it doesn't need to hide nor does it want to http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/knyten.gif

Hehe

Q: Where does a 64 cubic kilometer Borg cube travel?
A: Anywhere it wants.

But if their MO is to be a gorilla, then why the spheres, tactical cubes, scout cubes, etc...?

SoulReaver
May 26th, 2008, 03:39 AM
But if their MO is to be a gorilla, then why the spheres, tactical cubes, scout cubes, etc...?a gorilla doesn't have to justify itself either :jonas13:

besides playing gorilla doesn't preclude doing it in style



anyway the tactical cubes could be the result of their confrontation with 8472 (those "bioguns" were effective against borg shields and it was most likely the 1st time they encountered an energy-weapon to which they couldn't adapt) so they started putting armour plating on their cubes..

AeronPrometheus
May 26th, 2008, 10:25 AM
a gorilla doesn't have to justify itself either :jonas13:

besides playing gorilla doesn't preclude doing it in style



anyway the tactical cubes could be the result of their confrontation with 8472 (those "bioguns" were effective against borg shields and it was most likely the 1st time they encountered an energy-weapon to which they couldn't adapt) so they started putting armour plating on their cubes..

Not a very enthusiastic upgrade... Especially since the bulk of the fleet remained standard cubes that future Janeway happily torpedo'd. In fact it wasn't an "upgrade" at all, they simply started making different, smaller cubes along slide the classic.

For those of you just now joining the conversation, this thread has been officially hijacked.

:vortex04:

SoulReaver
May 26th, 2008, 10:40 AM
maybe they keep the smaller more maneuverable armour-plated cubes for the bioships & the rest of their forces for their "normal" ops..

btw notice by the end of s7 they'd also upgraded their disruptors probably because borg disruptors were shown to be somewhat effective against the bioships (Tuvock said so)


For those of you just now joining the conversation, this thread has been officially hijacked assimilated.fixed http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/alkpone.gif

AeronPrometheus
May 26th, 2008, 08:31 PM
maybe they keep the smaller more maneuverable armour-plated cubes for the bioships & the rest of their forces for their "normal" ops..

btw notice by the end of s7 they'd also upgraded their disruptors probably because borg disruptors were shown to be somewhat effective against the bioships (Tuvock said so)

I'd have to watch the entire seventh season over again to remember all of that. I forgot about the Borg weapons improvements but at that point it was all riding on the Queen's ego. She had the means to win against Voyager but her own self got in the way. It was a wee too late in the game for them to start considering hardware upgrades.

P.S. It's Tuvok.

SoulReaver
May 26th, 2008, 11:15 PM
ah voyager was another matter - the borg were up against weapons from the future and some armour-shield that made the voyager near invincible...besides queeno was up against not one but two janeways ^_^ (not that janeway made the best leader but still she had her moments)
P.S. It's Tuvok.whoops
guess I mixed up with Spock :/

Mongoletsi
May 27th, 2008, 04:43 AM
What's with the Trektalk? Euuuugh... :D

SoulReaver
May 27th, 2008, 04:49 AM
negative, we will pursue. resistance is futile :jonas13:

rarocks24
May 27th, 2008, 08:12 AM
What's with the Trektalk? Euuuugh... :D

We are Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.






























Unless your Species 8472. Then you can resist all you want.

Legionnaire
May 27th, 2008, 10:47 AM
So how about that Battlestar Galactica :p

rarocks24
May 27th, 2008, 12:11 PM
So how about that Battlestar Galactica :p

Irrelevant. We have assimilated the Galactica.

SoulReaver
May 27th, 2008, 12:55 PM
So how about that Battlestar Galactica :pthe galactica is irrelevant
this thread is irrelevant
this topic as you know it is over
trektalk will continue. you must comply http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/alkpone.gif

Legionnaire
May 27th, 2008, 01:47 PM
the galactica is irrelevant
this thread is irrelevant
this topic as you know it is over
trektalk will continue. you must comply http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/alkpone.gif

But I am so lost....so confused....this is a whole new world for which I am unprepared...

SoulReaver
May 27th, 2008, 01:52 PM
But I am so lost....so confused....this is a whole new world for which I am unprepared...loss is irrelevant
confusion is irrelevant
preparation is......irrelevantI bet you expected something differentif so you should've known better :difference is irrelevant

Pic
May 28th, 2008, 01:57 PM
A page and a half of Star Trek?!?!!?
Come on people.
OK, the first reference is comparing Boomer with 7of9 (somewhat off topic, but whatever). After that, you are all out of control.


Relating to this episode - did Athena shoot Natalie6 before, after or at the same time as they plugged in the hybrid and jumped away? It's all muddy for me.

Matt G
May 29th, 2008, 01:40 PM
1. Good point...why 'did' Tigh call the weapons hold!

2. Gaeta's singing sounds like a red herring, though I'm not ruling out Roslin as final Cylon at this point.

3. Tigh is just trying to cover his backside but he's created a mess.

4. Athena shooting Natalie...no good can come of this!

No good can come of this mess generally, not seen the next ep yet but it'll be interesting to see where we go from here!

AeronPrometheus
May 30th, 2008, 12:30 AM
1. Good point...why 'did' Tigh call the weapons hold!

I don't understand why he said "I dunno, just a hunch" The dradius clearly showed a Colonial FOF tag superimposed with the Base Ship tag. Maybe he thought it was a civvy ship that hadn't yet gotten out of the way or something.

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2008, 04:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3gUY940chg

Gaeta's Lament :jack_new_anime07:

the fifth man
January 12th, 2011, 07:25 PM
I had forgotten what a good one this episode was. My wife and I watched it tonight. She can't believe how close she is getting to the end.