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GateWorld
April 10th, 2008, 02:26 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4031.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE TIES THAT BIND</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 403</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
With Tyrol, Tory, Anders, and Tigh meeting in secret, a desperate and frustrated Cally suspects the Chief of having an affair -- only to discover the truth about him.

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wilsan
April 18th, 2008, 08:01 PM
WOW what a great episode.
You know I knew that Cally was going to die. But I thought she was going to do herself in. Man was I surprised.

rarocks24
April 18th, 2008, 08:01 PM
So, anyone see that backswing of Tori's? Knocked Cally straight across the room.
Boomer and Cavil? She's really fallen. Hope she realizes the mess she's gotten into.
Wonder what the reaction is going to be between Tori and Tyrol. He's gonna be pissed.
Is this the end of our dear friend Natalie, or is something going to come along and whisk her away to safety?

Zamboni
April 18th, 2008, 08:02 PM
No... Just... No...

*sadness*

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2008, 08:04 PM
"vomits" i'll never be able to watch this ep again .....just no

this ep ...... was disturbing

i hope tori goes to cylon hell

ToasterOnFire
April 18th, 2008, 08:06 PM
HOLY FRAK!

Damn that ep was slow, but what an ending! My stomach sank when I thought Cally was going to kill herself and the child, but to see Tori do it! And after she was so compassionate too, WHAT. THE. FRAK! I bet Tori lied to Tyrol about it too.

Kara's storyline was slow slow slow.

Civil war within the cylons, awesome.

Also, can you make me like Lee any less, show? First he was a complete dipwad serving Lampkin and now he's a complete dipwad serving Zarek. What a tool.

wilsan
April 18th, 2008, 08:06 PM
So, anyone see that backswing of Tori's? Knocked Cally straight across the room.
Boomer and Cavil? She's really fallen. Hope she realizes the mess she's gotten into.
Wonder what the reaction is going to be between Tori and Tyrol. He's gonna be pissed.
Is this the end of our dear friend Natalie, or is something going to come along and whisk her away to safety?

That's what I was talking about, I was floored. The scary thing is, it's almost like Tori has excepted being a Cylon.

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 08:06 PM
Episode Regurgitation:

Holy crap! Tori's gone to the dark side!

And Starbuck the artist again.....I love the painting in the ep, and I'm really looking forward to seeing more of the Demitrius story.

After four seasons we FINALLY get a proper look at what happens in the Quorum, beyond "Colonial Day", anyway.

Roslin gets cancer treatment stories. Cute. And Sad.

And Cally! :eek:

And the cylons! Ewwww Cavil/Boomer is creepy, and Cavil is truly the "evil" cylon. Yikes! :S

residualflash
April 18th, 2008, 08:07 PM
omg... i cant wait till next friday :(

Occulus
April 18th, 2008, 08:07 PM
So, anyone see that backswing of Tori's? Knocked Cally straight across the room.

I thought for sure we were going to lose Six this season. This episode was a surprise.

OTOH, now that I think about it, I kind of cringed when Cally went into the airlock with Torri. I've never entirely trust Torri. From the very first time I saw her, I though to myself, "she will be a problem."

Guess I was right.

Zamboni
April 18th, 2008, 08:08 PM
That's what I was talking about, I was floored. The scary thing is, it's almost like Tori has excepted being a Cylon.I think becoming a Cylon has changed Tory. All her inhibitions are gone, like Six, she wanted to experience things without the restriction of morality.

Much like the baby Six killed in the pilot, Tory has done the "Cylon" thing here...

I am mourning for Cally...

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Also, can you make me like Lee any less, show? First he was a complete dipwad serving Lampkin and now he's a complete dipwad serving Zarek. What a tool.I hated him to! Roslin should be held accountable. But I hate seeing it, and I hate whoever's doing it. Though I still admire Lee for his intent. Confusing much? :P

Shipperahoy
April 18th, 2008, 08:11 PM
I'm just not sure about this show anymore. Yeah I'm ticked that they killed Callie but it's more that the characters keep getting more and more outlandish. I'm not digging Apollo the smarmy politician at all. Starbuck the crazy loon is even less appealing. The good thing about Tyrol and Tighe being Cylons was that they were torn about what to do and seemed desperate to hold on to their humanity but with this episode it seems like they're developing the attitude of "Frak it, we're Cylons so we might as well act like one" and that bugs me. Tyrol doesn't even seem to care that Tory killed his wife and the mother of his child, especially going on what they showed in the previews for next week. And don't even get me started on that crazy rhymes with witch Tory. I also HATE HATE HATE that Galactica Boomer has become on of the crazy Cylon masses. It's a weird when one of the most sympathetic characters on the show is becoming Gaius Baltar.

rarocks24
April 18th, 2008, 08:13 PM
HOLY FRAK!

Damn that ep was slow, but what an ending! My stomach sank when I thought Cally was going to kill herself and the child, but to see Tori do it! And after she was so compassionate too, WHAT. THE. FRAK! I bet Tori lied to Tyrol about it too.

Kara's storyline was slow slow slow.

Civil war within the cylons, awesome.

Also, can you make me like Lee any less, show? First he was a complete dipwad serving Lampkin and now he's a complete dipwad serving Zarek. What a tool.

That post is a little misleading. She did save the life of their son.

Cally was a threat to them. Tori's personality has always been that of do what it takes, or the ends justify the means. In this case, a threat to her survival. I doubt Roslin would hesitate to throw Tori out the airlock if the truth came out.

Occulus
April 18th, 2008, 08:13 PM
I think becoming a Cylon has changed Tory.

Something just occurred to me. Torri : Final Five = Sharon Agathon : Skinjobs.

Can we get an *official* spelling for Torri/Tory/Tori, please?

Arative
April 18th, 2008, 08:14 PM
BSG continues to be the best show on TV. Pretty much amazes me every week.

Starbuck is one damaged chick. I could have sworn that in the picture she was painting, the largest of the 3 stars appeared to me at least to look like, a ship of lights from TOS.

Didn't really care for the Apollo story line. I would think that this being the final season, they wouldn't introduce so many storylines. Reminds me of the Simpsons episode, where they are making fun of Star Wars, the phantom menace and it was just a few hours of government procedure.

Was cool to see the cylon's fighting among themselves. I wonder if the Six and Boomer model are gone for good or were they able to be downloaded somewhere.

Nikki Clyne was really great in this episode, its a shame she's gone but damn what a way to go. I think Anders, Tyrol, and Tigh are trying to hold on to their humanity but Tori is fully embracing her cylon side or I think what she perceives as her cylon side.

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 08:15 PM
Anyone else get shivers when Natalie said that it was time to unite the twelve models? :D


And in the (SPACE) preview for next weeks, looks likeColonel Tigh is having visions of Ellen in a Six wig/outfit! :eek:

wilsan
April 18th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Even though the characters are a complete mess, it in some ways makes some sense. In magine you've been stuck on the same boat in the ocean for four years, I'd know I will go nuts. Besides it makes the show interesting.

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Even though the characters is a complete mess, it in some ways makes some sense. In magine you've been stuck on the same boat in the ocean for four years, I'd know I will go nuts. Besides it makes the show interesting.

in the series i think only 2 and a half years have passed since the attacks and that includes one year on new caprica

Zamboni
April 18th, 2008, 08:20 PM
Something just occurred to me. Torri : Final Five = Sharon Agathon : Skinjobs.

Can we get an *official* spelling for Torri/Tory/Tori, please?Huh? Sharon counts twice?

Anyway, it's "Tory". Most people here just use "Tori" because Tori Higgins is an actress on Stargate Atlantis (and this is Gateworld forum).

ToasterOnFire
April 18th, 2008, 08:21 PM
I hated him to! Roslin should be held accountable. But I hate seeing it, and I hate whoever's doing it. Though I still admire Lee for his intent. Confusing much? :P
Yes, I think Roslin should be held accountable but what Lee was doing was more grandstanding than anything really productive. And smirking after he was finished? Dipwad, through and through. I'm convinced that he's gunning for her ever since he decided to out her in the trial. Why her in particular I'm not sure, perhaps her close ties to his dad and potential jealousy issues?


That post is a little misleading. She did save the life of their son.
I get the feeling that she only saved the child because it's a hybrid and/or because it's Tyrol's. Otherwise I bet she would have airlocked the kid too.

wilsan
April 18th, 2008, 08:21 PM
in the series i think only 2 and a half years have passed since the attacks and that includes one year on new caprica

My bad

Occulus
April 18th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Even though the characters are a complete mess, it in some ways makes some sense. In magine you've been stuck on the same boat in the ocean for four years, I'd know I will go nuts. Besides it makes the show interesting.

They're ALL frakked in the head to one degree or another at this point. That's perfectly natural.

If I had a choice of parallel universes to go to, the BSG universe would not be my 'happy place'.

daniel9
April 18th, 2008, 08:23 PM
next week should be very interesting. we get to see how our friend natalie survives. hm and what about leoben? i didnt see him anywhere. and the setup with apollo for the return of a certain character to get his buns in gear against rosslin. i dont see how cavil overrid the hybrids i dont think theyd have wanted to attacked natalie's squad of ships and was that the big and little dipper when starbuck looked out the window of the demetrius? was the ship of lights in the memory starbuck had? will the chief and cally's baby cry uncontrollable in tory's arms like the hybrid baby (forgot the name) cried in boomer's care? the one that wasnt her mother?

DigiFluid
April 18th, 2008, 08:23 PM
Noooooooooooooooooo!

I've hated Tory since her first appearance, and now I have even more reason to.

Not Cally, say it ain't so :(

Occulus
April 18th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Huh? Sharon counts twice?

Anyway, it's "Tory". Most people here just use "Tori" because Tori Higgins is an actress on Stargate Atlantis (and this is Gateworld forum).

It really is 'Tory'? Thanks!

Sharon, Helo's wife. The one we didn't really see tonight.

(I don't think we've been told the whole truth about the Cylons, but more to the point, I don't think they have been told the whole truth about themselves. We've had several instances throughout the series in which the 'programmed machines' have been able to override their programming and make choices. Athena/Sharon is an example of this.)

rarocks24
April 18th, 2008, 08:26 PM
I'm just not sure about this show anymore. Yeah I'm ticked that they killed Callie but it's more that the characters keep getting more and more outlandish.

Some of the characters have remained constant over the years. Adama is still the same man he set out as. I'd like to think Helo has been the same, though he hasn't gotten nearly as much screen-time anymore.


I'm not digging Apollo the smarmy politician at all. Starbuck the crazy loon is even less appealing.

When has she not been a little loony? Agree with you about the Adama thing, not so much because I can't buy that he is a politician, more that it was an abrupt character change for him.


The good thing about Tyrol and Tighe being Cylons was that they were torn about what to do and seemed desperate to hold on to their humanity but with this episode it seems like they're developing the attitude of "Frak it, we're Cylons so we might as well act like one" and that bugs me.

Actually, didn't watch the teaser. But, Cally was suffering from postpartum depression and decided to tank a wrench (somewhat ironic) to Chief's head, several times. And he did seem really depressed and/or pissed in the last few seconds of the episode in which Adama was dropping the bomb. Saving his baby is probably the only thing that is keeping him from murdering her right now (though I granted, haven't seen the preview for next week).


And don't even get me started on that crazy rhymes with witch Tory.

She's a woman who, in her mind, the ends justify the means. There is a sad, cruel, sense of logic in what she did. Partially, for her own survival, and partially for the survival of the others. Just the manner in which she did it, along with the body language, left something to be desired.


I also HATE HATE HATE that Galactica Boomer has become on of the crazy Cylon masses. It's a weird when one of the most sympathetic characters on the show is becoming Gaius Baltar.

She did, but the "Eight" in her began to show again after Cavil had started the Cylon Civil War [or did Natalie start it?] when she said that it is like murdering her sisters. I think Boomer will betray Cavil in the end, I hope.

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Yes, I think Roslin should be held accountable but what Lee was doing was more grandstanding than anything really productive. And smirking after he was finished? Dipwad, through and through. I'm convinced that he's gunning for her ever since he decided to out her in the trial. Why her in particular I'm not sure, perhaps her close ties to his dad and potential jealousy issues? :lol: Funny how Zerak has been reduced to banging the gavel thing for the president- and how grumpy he looked doing it. Sidelined, indeed. Something nasty is bound to come of this. :P

I get the feeling that she only saved the child because it's a hybrid and/or because it's Tyrol's. Otherwise I bet she would have airlocked the kid too.No kidding. Yikes she's gone scary! I fear for Nicky's upbringing. Tory better not become adoptive Mum! And if she lies to Tyrol about what she did, that's just even more evil..... :S
They're ALL frakked in the head to one degree or another at this point. That's perfectly natural.

If I had a choice of parallel universes to go to, the BSG universe would not be my 'happy place'.Yes.....living in essentially a metal box for over a year on end would do that to a person. :S

The BSG universe is one scary place. I'd go to the Chocolate Pudding and Rainbows Universe.....but that's just me. ;)

Occulus
April 18th, 2008, 08:32 PM
Just the manner in which she did it, along with the body language, left something to be desired.

I disagree. I think it was intentional, to mark Tory as the 'Evil Fifth' (regardless of whether she's #5 or not, she's 1/5... oh never fraking mind).

Either I'm reading too much into this, or she was never intended to be a 'good girl' in the first place. I, for one, never once trusted her character.

ToasterOnFire
April 18th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Yeah, the creepiest thing with Tori was that she didn't look sad at all as she airlocked Cally. I could understand her being torn or upset over killing someone to keep your secret safe, but Tori was neither. Yikes.

Someone on TWOP pointed out that Cally started this ep with stars from a baby light passing over her and ended this ep out with the stars.

I always thought that Cally was annoying and I never bought her ship with Tyrol (marrying the guy who beat the crap out of you, squick), but damn did I feel for her when I saw her fate. Just like my reaction to Ellen Tigh.

rarocks24
April 18th, 2008, 08:44 PM
I disagree. I think it was intentional, to mark Tory as the 'Evil Fifth' (regardless of whether she's #5 or not, she's 1/5... oh never fraking mind).

Either I'm reading too much into this, or she was never intended to be a 'good girl' in the first place. I, for one, never once trusted her character.

That's the thing, you can't trust her. She's doing what it takes for HER survival.

Tory jettisoning Cally out the airlock was just as bad as what Saul did to his own wife. Only thing is, he regrets it. She doesn't... yet.

pynapl
April 18th, 2008, 08:45 PM
I disagree. I think it was intentional, to mark Tory as the 'Evil Fifth' (regardless of whether she's #5 or not, she's 1/5... oh never fraking mind).

Either I'm reading too much into this, or she was never intended to be a 'good girl' in the first place. I, for one, never once trusted her character.


I find myself looking at Tory (I keep wanting to spell her name Tori, I really do...) as someone who has completely given up on being human. A sort of "well, if I'm a cylon, I may as well not care anymore" type of attitude. I'm worried that the others of the final five might be slowly adopting that attitude as well. :( (And please tell me that Anders doesn't give himself away to Kara thinking she's a cylon too...As much as I can't see him doing that, I can see him doing that...) Other than that, while I can see "why" Tori airlocked Cally, I find the manner of events disturbing--she really seemed nice/understanding for a moment there...

the fifth man
April 18th, 2008, 08:47 PM
in the series i think only 2 and a half years have passed since the attacks and that includes one year on new caprica

Even if that is true, it is still a long time. And, look at what they've all been through. Repeatedly.

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Yeah, the creepiest thing with Tori was that she didn't look sad at all as she airlocked Cally. I could understand her being torn or upset over killing someone to keep your secret safe, but Tori was neither. Yikes.

Someone on TWOP pointed out that Cally started this ep with stars from a baby light passing over her and ended this ep out with the stars.Woah, good catch.....for whoever noticed that. :P
I always thought that Cally was annoying and I never bought her ship with Tyrol (marrying the guy who beat the crap out of you, squick), but damn did I feel for her when I saw her fate. Just like my reaction to Ellen Tigh.I was so glad that was brought up again in this ep, because it happened.....and then it was like it was forgotten. It's weird watching this show, because we got to know the Chief, and like him. And we as the viewers know that he's a generally good guy, but from an objective point of view, Cally should never have married him after her beat her. Stupid, stupid thing to do. But I still keep having to remind myself of that, because I do like the character of the Chief so much. This show fraks with your mind and your perspectives. A lot. :P

the fifth man
April 18th, 2008, 08:49 PM
Yeah, the creepiest thing with Tori was that she didn't look sad at all as she airlocked Cally. I could understand her being torn or upset over killing someone to keep your secret safe, but Tori was neither. Yikes.



Yeah, I would say it is safe to say she has gone dark-side.

pynapl
April 18th, 2008, 08:49 PM
... This show fraks with your mind and your perspectives. A lot. :P

Well said!! (And I love that about this show!!) :cool:

marielabbott
April 18th, 2008, 08:50 PM
Cally. :( The way they shot many of her scenes in this ep, with a sense of disconnected reality, really sold me on how depressed she was. Oh, Cally. :(

I officially hate Tory. Opening herself up to new experiences indeed....:S She had better have nothing more to do with the Chief, like helping raise Nick. :S

Is Cally's death going to make the Chief cling to his humanity, or go more Cylon? He's always been one of the most human of the characters to me, so I'm not sure if I could stand it if they went the Cylonish route.

I actually yelled out in disgust at Cavil/Boomer. :eek: Yuck. And why?

Wow, base star vs. base star, out of range of resurrection ships? That's a Cylon civil war that's playing for keeps. Was anyone else freaked out by that bloody rag the centurian Cylon was using to clean up with?

Adama reading to Roslin...the one kinda happy moment in the episode. ;) And yet they are still at odds over his decision to allow Kara a ship.

I'm identifiying more with Anders these days than Starbuck--loved the expression on his face while Kara described the way she was feeling and you could see he totally related.

Cally. :(

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 08:52 PM
I find myself looking at Tory (I keep wanting to spell her name Tori, I really do...) as someone who has completely given up on being human. A sort of "well, if I'm a cylon, I may as well not care anymore" type of attitude. I'm worried that the others of the final five might be slowly adopting that attitude as well. :( (And please tell me that Anders doesn't give himself away to Kara thinking she's a cylon too...As much as I can't see him doing that, I can see him doing that...) Other than that, while I can see "why" Tori airlocked Cally, I find the manner of events disturbing--she really seemed nice/understanding for a moment there...It is disturbing, how persuasive she was- I was on the edge of being fooled as well. She's easily as scary as Caprica Six was in the mini. And what's worse is that this just may well be only the beginning of Tory's evilness- what are the chances that she decides to do something so horrible that Tigh or Tyrol expose themselves trying to stop her? :S

Because I do still think that Tigh and Tyrol can hold on to their own humanity. I want to see at least one of them manage it.

pynapl
April 18th, 2008, 08:55 PM
Yeah, I would say it is safe to say she has gone dark-side.


Agreed. After seeing this episode, I feel what triggered it was when she agreed to sleep with Baltar. As soon as she convinced herself to do that, it was like a downward spiral...any thing that made Tory, Tory, she decided to shed.

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 08:59 PM
Cally. :( The way they shot many of her scenes in this ep, with a sense of disconnected reality, really sold me on how depressed she was. Oh, Cally. :(That was freaky, throughout the ep, I absolutely agree on how real it felt. Especially at the beginning, it was scary. :S
Wow, base star vs. base star, out of range of resurrection ships? That's a Cylon civil war that's playing for keeps. Was anyone else freaked out by that bloody rag the centurian Cylon was using to clean up with?I just loved that we were seeing all these centurians with more human like movements.....that one looking furtively over it's shoulder (or as close as that can happen) was bizarre/disturbing/funny all at once. :S And having to say "the magic word". Yikes!
Adama reading to Roslin...the one kinda happy moment in the episode. ;) And yet they are still at odds over his decision to allow Kara a ship.And when the one happy moment is the cancer patient trying to keep from vomiting while having a story read to her as a distraction, you know things are bleak. :P
I'm identifiying more with Anders these days than Starbuck--loved the expression on his face while Kara described the way she was feeling and you could see he totally related.All of these Starbuck/Anders scenes.....the writers are loving their ironies. :P When she finds out the truth..... :S

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2008, 09:02 PM
.......as far as i remember ...no baltar tonight

nice change

pynapl
April 18th, 2008, 09:04 PM
It is disturbing, how persuasive she was- I was on the edge of being fooled as well. She's easily as scary as Caprica Six was in the mini. And what's worse is that this just may well be only the beginning of Tory's evilness...

Yes! So that's what it is! We're getting back to that uneasy feeling from the beginning of it all. (I don't know about anyone else, but as we started to get some of the back stories of the other cylons, I started to forget about how "scary" they are...)


...what are the chances that she decides to do something so horrible that Tigh or Tyrol expose themselves trying to stop her? :S

Because I do still think that Tigh and Tyrol can hold on to their own humanity. I want to see at least one of them manage it.

You bring up a good point: I can see them realizing Tory's manipulation at some point and being forced to do something about it. Because I can definitely see Tory manipulating them. Right now they all feel they have each other--imagine how they react when that support system comes crashing down on them...

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Yes! So that's what it is! We're getting back to that uneasy feeling from the beginning of it all. (I don't know about anyone else, but as we started to get some of the back stories of the other cylons, I started to forget about how "scary" they are...)



You bring up a good point: I can see them realizing Tory's manipulation at some point and being forced to do something about it. Because I can definitely see Tory manipulating them. Right now they all feel they have each other--imagine how they react when that support system comes crashing down on them...The Cylon Meetings sure look to be coming to an end..... :(

marielabbott
April 18th, 2008, 09:08 PM
And when the one happy moment is the cancer patient trying to keep from vomiting while having a story read to her as a distraction, you know things are bleak. :P

Exactly. :p


All of these Starbuck/Anders scenes.....the writers are loving their ironies. :P When she finds out the truth..... :S

I know, I'm getting a bit worried that Anders might tell her and Starbuck might do something she will regret...or at least I'll regret, assuming Anders clings to his humanity. :p

pynapl
April 18th, 2008, 09:15 PM
I'm identifiying more with Anders these days than Starbuck--loved the expression on his face while Kara described the way she was feeling and you could see he totally related.

Yeah. I love the wonderful acting in moments like these. Subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) expressions can go a long way! Cheers to Trucco and Sackhoff! :zelenka25:



All of these Starbuck/Anders scenes.....the writers are loving their ironies.

It really is interesting to see the shift in their characters. It's like they're going through the same thing, only not, at the same time.



When she finds out the truth.....:S
I'm scared too! :S

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 09:15 PM
I know, I'm getting a bit worried that Anders might tell her and Starbuck might do something she will regret...or at least I'll regret, assuming Anders clings to his humanity. :pAnders seems to be the only one who is having pretty much no problem with that. Some issues yes, only to be expected, but so far he seems like he'll cope better than any of the others (which makes me like him all the more- and I fear for the fact that I'm liking characters more and more when their likelihood of being killed off just went up exponentially :S :P). Of course there is a big difference in what Starbuck will regret and what the viewers will regret..... :S

What I want to know is when will we see Leoben in the Resurrection bath. We've seen all the lady cylons multiple times (aside from Tory).....and now Cavil (ew), so when do we get to see Leoben covered in goo? :P

Edit: regarding Anders, I meant to say that he has no problem with it except in how it relates to his relationship with Starbuck. Which I think is interesting, and makes him one very loyal guy.

marielabbott
April 18th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Anders seems to be the only one who is having pretty much no problem with that. Some issues yes, only to be expected, but so far he seems like he'll cope better than any of the others (which makes me like him all the more- and I fear for the fact that I'm liking characters more and more when their likelihood of being killed off just went up exponentially :S :P). Of course there is a big difference in what Starbuck will regret and what the viewers will regret..... :S

What I want to know is when will we see Leoben in the Resurrection bath. We've seen all the lady cylons multiple times (aside from Tory).....and now Cavil (ew), so when do we get to see Leoben covered in goo? :P

Edit: regarding Anders, I meant to say that he has no problem with it except in how it relates to his relationship with Starbuck. Which I think is interesting, and makes him one very loyal guy.

Leoben, yes. :p We haven't seen much of him yet, but I'm betting he and Starbuck have some things to settle at some point. Or at least I hope. I also want to see if/how his religious theories tie into the mythology of the show.

I think you're right about Anders being the most well-adjusted Cylon (if there is such a thing). :p Probably because as you mention he is only thinking of it as how it will affect his relationships--and how human a reaction is that? Very, very different than Tory, who seems to find not a lot of value in human life these days, let alone relationships. (What happened to her abundance of feeling from last week's episode? :S)

I forgot to give kudos for a wonderfully scored episode. I loved the unsettling music they used for the Cally depression scenes especially. :)

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 09:35 PM
This episode was very very very slow. Just a lot of BS here and there. But it ended on a high note. The whole Cally thing was like wow. Still the episode was better than last week for me, but not as good as the season premiere.

pynapl
April 18th, 2008, 09:36 PM
I know, I'm getting a bit worried that Anders might tell her and Starbuck might do something she will regret...or at least I'll regret, assuming Anders clings to his humanity.

I have the same feeling.


Anders seems to be the only one who is having pretty much no problem with that. Some issues yes, only to be expected, but so far he seems like he'll cope better than any of the others (which makes me like him all the more- and I fear for the fact that I'm liking characters more and more when their likelihood of being killed off just went up exponentially :S :P). Of course there is a big difference in what Starbuck will regret and what the viewers will regret..... :S

Edit: regarding Anders, I meant to say that he has no problem with it except in how it relates to his relationship with Starbuck. Which I think is interesting, and makes him one very loyal guy.

Starbuck really seems to be the glue that holds him together. It's almost as though she's the reason (or partly the reason) he's so adamant on remaining true to Sam Anders, pyramid all-star, leader of the rebellion on Caprica, etc., etc. There's something to say about a guy who refuses to throw the towel in after his wife throws all the abuse she has in his direction--and even something better to say when that same man figures out he's a cylon, and he still won't budge in his commitment to her.

Which is why I find myself worried that he's going to put all the cards on the table in the belief that Kara will accept it somehow or relate to him more, and then have everything backfire... (that is, if he doesn’t go all cylon first…)


What I want to know is when will we see Leoben in the Resurrection bath. We've seen all the lady cylons multiple times (aside from Tory).....and now Cavil (ew), so when do we get to see Leoben covered in goo? :P

lol, yes, when will this happen? ;)

ToasterOnFire
April 18th, 2008, 09:37 PM
.......as far as i remember ...no baltar tonight

nice change
Agreed, especially since I think his current cult plotline is kinda slow.


All of these Starbuck/Anders scenes.....the writers are loving their ironies. :P When she finds out the truth..... :S
Ah, but we the viewers know the secret with Anders. We have no idea what the secret is with Starbuck and her return. Maybe it will be a dual reveal and they can have a wtf!-off. :D

pynapl
April 18th, 2008, 09:43 PM
This episode was very very very slow. Just a lot of BS here and there. But it ended on a high note. The whole Cally thing was like wow. Still the episode was better than last week for me, but not as good as the season premiere.

Thus far, I also enjoyed the premiere best. :cool:

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Leoben, yes. :p We haven't seen much of him yet, but I'm betting he and Starbuck have some things to settle at some point. Or at least I hope. I also want to see if/how his religious theories tie into the mythology of the show.

I think you're right about Anders being the most well-adjusted Cylon (if there is such a thing). :p Probably because as you mention he is only thinking of it as how it will affect his relationships--and how human a reaction is that? Very, very different than Tory, who seems to find not a lot of value in human life these days, let alone relationships. (What happened to her abundance of feeling from last week's episode? :S)

I forgot to give kudos for a wonderfully scored episode. I loved the unsettling music they used for the Cally depression scenes especially. :)You got it exactly right in bold. :zelenka25:

Starbuck is remarkably lucky in having Anders there for her (the fact that he's a cylon is kinda irrelevant).....Whatever happens to their relationship, I hope she realizes that before the end (how I loathe those words!). A lesser guy would have told her to just frak off ages ago. Whether that makes Anders incredibly dumb or incredibly wonderful is up for interpretation. :P

Aside from the obvious reasons, seeing Leoben resurrect at some point would make a lot of sense- what with his intense spiritual side and the spiritual connotation of resurrection.

I never even noticed the score- I was so wrapped up in the story (and the lightening strikes outside during it- fear of power outage! :eek:). That's what re-watching is for! :D

Night Marshal
April 18th, 2008, 09:49 PM
once again the cylons steal the show

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 09:50 PM
Ah, but we the viewers know the secret with Anders. We have no idea what the secret is with Starbuck and her return. Maybe it will be a dual reveal and they can have a wtf!-off. :DThat would be one hell of a scene. :eek: :D


Starbuck really seems to be the glue that holds him together. It's almost as though she's the reason (or partly the reason) he's so adamant on remaining true to Sam Anders, pyramid all-star, leader of the rebellion on Caprica, etc., etc. There's something to say about a guy who refuses to throw the towel in after his wife throws all the abuse she has in his direction--and even something better to say when that same man figures out he's a cylon, and he still won't budge in his commitment to her.

Which is why I find myself worried that he's going to put all the cards on the table in the belief that Kara will accept it somehow or relate to him more, and then have everything backfire... (that is, if he doesn’t go all cylon first…)Granted, if roles were reversed and it Anders was the woman taking all that crap from her husband (Starbuck) (:P), we'd all be saying "get the hell out of there!" Which makes me second guess my opinions on Anders's position. But I still love him for it.

And I am so scared that Anders is going to do that as well..... :S

Arative
April 18th, 2008, 10:04 PM
Starbuck's picture does look familar

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1298/p1050330tz0.th.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8186/shipoflightspm1.th.jpg

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 10:15 PM
Cally should be the Final Cylon. Boy would that freak the heck out of Chief. LOL.

Duckey
April 18th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Wow, I was so not prepared for this. This episode hit me harder then the other 2 this season have. I had heard rumours about Cally killing herself, and I was terrified for the baby. Very few shows can leave you absolutely terrified of a character dying like Galactica can. Then, I thought it was all ok, and BAM! Tory shoots her out the airlock. Wow.

My weekend is now screwed up. No joke. But, as bad as it makes everything seem, thats why I love this show. Nothing else has such power, the ability to jab a knife into your heart and twist it around. Its amazing.

Lt. Col. Mcoy
April 18th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Tory's slide started with going to Baltar,and it's just getting worse.

I personally think, however, that she didn't have much choice about spacing Cally. We know Cylons are programmed to protect any children of other Cylons, and I personally think the final five are programmed to preserve their lives and, most importantly, their secrecy. This makes her programming force her to kill Cally on two fronts:

1. Cally is a danger to the baby, which all Cylons must protect.

2. Cally is a danger to the secrecy of the final five, which their programming directs them to protect.



And as icing on the cake:

3. Tory seems to be the type of person who would do it anyway, just to preserve herself; Cylon or human.



Oh, and I fully believe she lied to Tyrol about what happened.

Trek_Girl42
April 18th, 2008, 11:25 PM
Wow, I was so not prepared for this. This episode hit me harder then the other 2 this season have. I had heard rumours about Cally killing herself, and I was terrified for the baby. Very few shows can leave you absolutely terrified of a character dying like Galactica can. Then, I thought it was all ok, and BAM! Tory shoots her out the airlock. Wow.

My weekend is now screwed up. No joke. But, as bad as it makes everything seem, thats why I love this show. Nothing else has such power, the ability to jab a knife into your heart and twist it around. Its amazing.Isn't that just the best storytelling though? That is kind of story that you can take with you. I love it. It becomes sometimes painful to see what these characters that we care about go through, but then when they earn that very rare victory or moment, the sweetness of it is unparalleled (verses, "lets be happy at the end of every week" television- which there's nothing wrong with, but I find it more like candy- fun, but tiring in quantities and not good in excessiveness. BSG type storytelling is vitamins and calcium and all that good stuff you need. :D Of course a balance of both is nice.....and I'm carrying on a bit far with the metaphor. :P). I've always felt that it's the best kind of story, best kind of television, and it's a rare show that makes you care about the characters that much. :)

And of course there are the awesome battles, those are kinda maybe worth watching for too. ;)
Tory's slide started with going to Baltar,and it's just getting worse.

I personally think, however, that she didn't have much choice about spacing Cally. We know Cylons are programmed to protect any children of other Cylons, and I personally think the final five are programmed to preserve their lives and, most importantly, their secrecy. This makes her programming force her to kill Cally on two fronts:

1. Cally is a danger to the baby, which all Cylons must protect.

2. Cally is a danger to the secrecy of the final five, which their programming directs them to protect.



And as icing on the cake:

3. Tory seems to be the type of person who would do it anyway, just to preserve herself; Cylon or human.



Oh, and I fully believe she lied to Tyrol about what happened.That's pretty darn freaky. If they are programmed to preserve their own lives at all cost, we could be looking at major major meltdown at some point in the fleet if one of them is threatened- if this is what gets Tory to airlock a person, gotta wonder what happens with even a greater threat.....

anotherquestion
April 18th, 2008, 11:28 PM
Tory's slide started with going to Baltar,and it's just getting worse.

I personally think, however, that she didn't have much choice about spacing Cally. We know Cylons are programmed to protect any children of other Cylons, and I personally think the final five are programmed to preserve their lives and, most importantly, their secrecy. This makes her programming force her to kill Cally on two fronts:

1. Cally is a danger to the baby, which all Cylons must protect.

2. Cally is a danger to the secrecy of the final five, which their programming directs them to protect.

And as icing on the cake:

3. Tory seems to be the type of person who would do it anyway, just to preserve herself; Cylon or human.

Oh, and I fully believe she lied to Tyrol about what happened.
1.) I really don't believe, now, that the Cavil models' are out to protect any Colonial, hybrid baby or otherwise. The implication to me was that the entire line of Sharons', Leobans' and Boomers' were destroyed in this attack, as well as all the "restored" Centurions, particularly since the Resurrection Ship was out of range. We were led to believe that all the model lines began to self-segregate on their respective basestars and that the Cavil inspired ambush was, literally, "the end of the line" for three models with three notable exceptions: Caprica Six in Galactica's brig, Athena with Helo, and Boomer shacking up with Cavil.
2.) To me, for all intents and purposes, Tory simply saved Nick Tyrol. Cally was doomed once she put herself in the launch tube. It turned out to be expedient for Tory to open the outer hull doors when she was on the sealed side of the airlock, but if she had not intervened at all, Cally and Nick would have died by Cally's hand.
3.) I think it is still too early to see how Tory's story will play out. If she were simply a heartless murderous Cylon, she would have let both Cally and Nick die. Instead she intercedes to save Nick, and for a multitude of reasons disposes of Cally. I don't see how this serves the ends of ending the lives of all the Colonials. I do agree she appears to have relished "embracing her inner Cylon" more than the other known four, but I don't necessarily agree that her tryst with Baltar had much to do with it.

For both sides, the populations are radically winnowing down. The Cylons may be left with only the Doral, Simon, and Cavil models (which, to my mind, would make for a very boring eternity of endlessly resurrected lifetimes). I bet the single Boomer model will never be lonely. They may unbox the D'anna models just to add a bit of spice to their lives, but Cavil, being the control freak that he is, would doubtlessly take steps to lobotomize that line in one way or another, too.

Cally was depressed, for good reasons. The only thing imaginably worse than Tyrol's infidelity would be his inhumanity. That, and her misuse of medication, is what appeared to drive her to the tubes.

I disagree about the assessment that Lee Adama was grandstanding in his new appointed position. He has consistently stood up for the "rule of law", first in opposing the "military coup" ordered by his father to oust Roslin, and, just as forcefully, by bringing Roslin to the stand to make the state prove their case against Baltar. I'm having some memory problems about the Executive Order 112, that Lee brought up so prominently, however. Wasn't this the final act that Zarek put in place before stepping down after New Caprica so the "secret courts" could cleanse the fleet of Collaborators? Didn't he explain this as a method of keeping Roslin's "hands clean"? If so, why couldn't Roslin simply explain it as a bad legacy act that she herself had washed her hands of ? Roslin definitely objected to those "kangaroo courts" and ended them when she came to know of them. When did she flip positions?

From the preview for next week. It looks like Saul Tigh will end up confronting incarcerated Caprica Six, with some new insights on the part of both participants about guilt and other truths and consequences.

Chev's Ron
April 19th, 2008, 12:47 AM
What I was suprised the most about was that Kara was not alone on the Demetrius. (I had been asking myself since last week if she would go nuts out there alone)

Unfortunately with all the course corrections that Kara has been making, the atmosphere in the sewage ship "reeked" of Mutiny. If they are still with kara on the path to earth two episodes from now I will be surprised.

As for Tory, man how come the hottest women on the show = murdering maniacs? I have yet to see a hot colonial woman. Oy... What Tory did to callie is nothing short of apathy. Although, I hate to admit it, It is nice to see a colonial recieve payback for what the colonials have been doing to the cylons.

As for Callie herself, She sort of deserved it... IMO anyone who shoots your lover (Boomer) than tells you that she loves you, deserves to at least be locked away for life... I love how her character was portrayed, even though I hate her for being a demented wuss, but that is what I love about this show, people act like that in RL, and we see not just heros/villians but all types of personalities including those who are annoying or we love to hate.

Finally, one major question. If that was the extent of the cylon civil war (which I believe that it isn't) Doesn't Cavil realize that he just pissed off the hybrids/centurions all the more? Sure you got rid of the good skinjobs, and might be able to re-supress the centurions, but you just released the hounds from their master you idiot. They were aligned with the good three models, not you. Now that they are leaderless, they might just go on a killing spree to save their own metallic frames.

gravityStar
April 19th, 2008, 02:43 AM
Dammit, lots of things happening this episode that just piss me off.
Next episode I hope Cavil wakes up being glowered at by two Centurions. :cool:

Atlanis
April 19th, 2008, 05:04 AM
Cally....for god sake she's a great charicter!
And to tell the truth I don't think she's dead cause around the image of her begin' sucked into space was FXed with a white cloudness prehaps that was a visision that Saul had about putting a bulit through Adam's eye in the first ep of the season and as for Tory's I think she isn't evil and if she realy did kill Cally I hope she burns in hell

MmmmMcKAy
April 19th, 2008, 05:30 AM
Yikes!!! Great episode. I usually can't stand Cally. but I felt sympathy for her during this episode. Tori was genuinely creepy and menacing. I was shocked when she belted Cally and then airlocked her, but it made sense with the way Tori embraced her Cylon self earlier in the episode.

If Tori had let Cally live, I wonder what Cally would have done. Would she have kept the secret of the 4 cylons for the sake of her son, or would she have run to Adama as soon as she got the chance? Obviously, Tori didn't want to take that risk(although with Cally's recent history of depression, they could make a case for her mental instability).

Poor Cally showed genuine remorse for even thinking of killing her son.


Lee seemed to enjoy being a sh*t disturber.

Kara has no idea what she's doing. Her speech about being apart from her body seems to point to Kara being some sort of different being. Or else she's just plain crazy.

Wonder why Anders chose to separate from the other 3 cylons(I know to be with Kara but is there another reason too?). For some reason, Gaeta looked funny being on that ship with Kara....really out of place.

Cavil is a real *******, isn't he? No ressurection ship nearby for the 6's and 8's. Wonder what will happen?


Love how the Centaurians will only do something if Six says please.:)

Hypochondriac
April 19th, 2008, 05:46 AM
Don't think the 6's and the 8's are dead. It would be stupid to kill them off now. I never liked cally, so don't really care they she's supposedly dead. I would love for Cally to be the final cylon.

Pharaoh Atem
April 19th, 2008, 05:49 AM
Don't think the 6's and the 8's are dead. It would be stupid to kill them off now. I never liked cally, so don't really care they she's supposedly dead. I would love for Cally to be the final cylon.
she got sucked out into space .......she's dead

trakal
April 19th, 2008, 06:13 AM
Don't think the 6's and the 8's are dead. It would be stupid to kill them off now. I never liked cally, so don't really care they she's supposedly dead. I would love for Cally to be the final cylon.

I don't think so as it was established early on in season 1 that Cylons can't have children together, only with a human.

A very good episode now, like most people I wanted Cally to live.

On a side note I liked the Star Trek reference in the episode now.

somedude
April 19th, 2008, 06:37 AM
Thank goodness Cally got airlocked- never much liked her character, she was such a harpy, and whined all the time. Except for Seelix and a few other token characters, almost everyone from the Chief's original deck gang is dead.

Zepro
April 19th, 2008, 08:59 AM
I don't suppose it's significant that Cally mentioned she hadn't slept properly ever since they entereted the Nebula?

P-90_177
April 19th, 2008, 09:25 AM
I don't suppose it's significant that Cally mentioned she hadn't slept properly ever since they entereted the Nebula?

i wondered that. but i think it's more likely that tyrol was just up and about and keeping her wondering ever since the nebula.

Col. Shadow Quinn
April 19th, 2008, 09:34 AM
Anyone notice Weapons Lock 1701D?

metabog
April 19th, 2008, 09:42 AM
I don't think what Tory did is what she would've done had she not been a Cylon. I mean, being one obviously has some kind of effect, just like Tigh imagining killing the Old Man and Anders' glowing eye. It's not like she's saying "hmm now that I'm a cylon I better act like one". It's probably some kind of subtle mind control or trigger.

Trek_Girl42
April 19th, 2008, 09:49 AM
Anyone notice Weapons Lock 1701D?Uh huh. :D

Sci-Fi
April 19th, 2008, 09:55 AM
The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the Cylons made duplicate bodies for every human in the fleet and transferred their consciousness to it. By the time they/reach find Earth, they will all be Cylons and infect the Earth...lol...j/k

Col. Shadow Quinn
April 19th, 2008, 09:58 AM
I don't think what Tory did is what she would've done had she not been a Cylon. I mean, being one obviously has some kind of effect, just like Tigh imagining killing the Old Man and Anders' glowing eye. It's not like she's saying "hmm now that I'm a cylon I better act like one". It's probably some kind of subtle mind control or trigger.

Tory killed Cally because Cally potentially would've revealed the fact to Adama and Rosling and whoever else and thereby was a risk to them. It was the need to survive as well prevent being airlocked themselves that made Tory kill Cally.

marielabbott
April 19th, 2008, 10:05 AM
Starbuck really seems to be the glue that holds him together. It's almost as though she's the reason (or partly the reason) he's so adamant on remaining true to Sam Anders, pyramid all-star, leader of the rebellion on Caprica, etc., etc. There's something to say about a guy who refuses to throw the towel in after his wife throws all the abuse she has in his direction--and even something better to say when that same man figures out he's a cylon, and he still won't budge in his commitment to her.

I agree. It's really made me appreciate his character so much more. I was largely indifferent when he was first introduced, but I have to say he's becoming a favorite character of mine. Which means he's likely to die. :p

I also wonder how much of the Chief's humanity was wrapped up into his commitment to Cally. I know he has Nicky, but I fear that Tory will attempt to manipulate him somehow, or his own programming will begin to influence him, or something...the last time he had suspicions he was a Cylon he reacted violently. What's he going to become now that he knows he is one, and his family is shattered?


Ah, but we the viewers know the secret with Anders. We have no idea what the secret is with Starbuck and her return. Maybe it will be a dual reveal and they can have a wtf!-off. :D

I think you may be onto something here. :D


Unfortunately with all the course corrections that Kara has been making, the atmosphere in the sewage ship "reeked" of Mutiny. If they are still with kara on the path to earth two episodes from now I will be surprised.

I got that vibe too. Something has got to give.


I don't suppose it's significant that Cally mentioned she hadn't slept properly ever since they entereted the Nebula?

Sleeping too much, or not enough, are symptoms of depression, so I chalked it up to that.

Pic
April 19th, 2008, 10:30 AM
Random thoughts on this episode:

So what was with Lee falling for Zarek's ploy and talking about that executive order thing?? I'm thinking there's something nefarious afoot.

Yea! No Baltar in this one!! Woo Hoo! Makes it one of my favorite episodes just for that.

What's going on with Caprica 6? Are we going to see her again soon?

The crew on the Demetrius look miserable. That's not going to go well.

Cylon civil war -- that can't be all of it. There must be more. Natalie was just introduced, can't believe they'd kill her off so quickly (but they've done stranger things).

Cally always annoyed me. Not that I liked her getting airlocked, but she always annoyed me.

Skydiver
April 19th, 2008, 10:32 AM
I don't suppose it's significant that Cally mentioned she hadn't slept properly ever since they entereted the Nebula?
i'm wondering if it ties into Kara somehow. If there's some people tha share a genetic makeup with kara of some sort that makes them succeptible/open to cylon info/broadcasting

like, what if kara and possibly callie are early generation 'half breeds'? a result of some sort of genetic manipulation from the first cylon war, some sort of test that's been left to run its course for years

boxvic
April 19th, 2008, 10:48 AM
I think it is kind of funny that Anders is the most human at this point of all the Cylons. I kind of expected him to be the one that lost it, especially when that Raider scanned him- I thought that triggered something in him. As it is though, he seems to be the one dealing with it the best and holding his humanity. Though I think he is trying so hard to get back with Kara as a means of compensating. He wants things to be like they used to be so he doesn't have to think about what he is. This gives him almost a bit of innocence, and I think it really will lead to him revealing himself to Kara.

As for Torry... she was always a nobody. Didn't mean anything to anyone and was always replaceable. Now though, she's not a nobody. She is letting the power goto her head.

Night Marshal
April 19th, 2008, 11:00 AM
I have to say I have liked Cally since the Mini but since She married the Cheif her character has been painful to watch not quite damsel in distress but not far from it. In a show of strong women Cally was was written like she could hardly doing anything for herself. And this is someone who is Second on Flight Deck, but we really haven't seen that much of that side of her of late.

As for this Episode I would have been so pissed if they let Cally live because it goes against every thing this show has set up. Making the Easy Violent decision rather than the Group hug kind of ending I was worried about. To say nothing of the fact that they set up the whole Episode to show Cally as off balance and on the verge of doing something crazy. The one thing I think Cally gets credit for is when she saw Tory was about to kill her she didn't fight it or scream or insult she should there and took it, and died with Honor.

And I have no problem with what Troy did she saved the baby and kept the secret thats what good cylons do.

Good bye Cally I wish your character was better written. But some how I doubt you will be the last one to die to keep the secret of the final 5.

As for the 6 & 8. This is Scifi if you don't see them get blown up that means there not dead simple as that.

ToasterOnFire
April 19th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Now I'm wondering if Tori killing off Cally was truly spur of the moment. How did Tori know that Cally was in the hanger airlock? And why on earth do the Dylan 4 use notes to signal that they need to meet? Doesn't that seem awfully foolish to advertise? Could Tori have placed that note or put it back up after Tyrol took it down to entice Cally to follow them to the meeting?

If Tori did think this through, it leads to the question why Tori had it in for Cally. Did she see her as an eventual threat to the Dylan 4's secrecy? Was she developing an attachment to Tyrol and thought offing his wife was an acceptable next step? :eek:

Skydiver
April 19th, 2008, 11:27 AM
why not use notes? tyrol was the only one of the four to have anyone that could 'eavesdrop' as it is. the rest are loners. Even though sam and kara are still married, kara's been gone for months, so he's alone too.

anotherquestion
April 19th, 2008, 11:40 AM
Now I'm wondering if Tori killing off Cally was truly spur of the moment. How did Tori know that Cally was in the hanger airlock? And why on earth do the Dylan 4 use notes to signal that they need to meet? Doesn't that seem awfully foolish to advertise? Could Tori have placed that note or put it back up after Tyrol took it down to entice Cally to follow them to the meeting?


It appeared to me that not that much premeditation was involved. Tory was the only one of the Four that noticed the "off the hinge" access hatch to the crawlspace beside the Weapons locker (although the others seemed to hear the noise of the detritus that Cally accidentally kicked off of her precarious perch).

Being alerted that someone was likely eavesdropping, and already having been confronted by Cally earlier at Joe's Bar, Tory had reason to monitor Cally's movements. What followed was more spontaneous than elaborately premeditated.

Hypochondriac
April 19th, 2008, 11:57 AM
What I found funny was starbuck being basically lost. All of last episode she was screaming I have a weird mumbojumbo connection and were going in the wrong direction.

Now she finally has her own ship and can't figure out which way to go. Heck aren't they supposed to jump back to a system they already explored? What happened to her sense?

LoneStar1836
April 19th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Eh, episode was okay. Progressed the story a bit more, but still rather slow...even without the inclusion of Baltar.

Cally was never one of my favorite characters, and I had grown to really, really dislike her last season so the prospect of her being airlocked was very appealing. Course then we get to the episode that fulfills my wish and her death turns into a sad event.

I wasn't sure if BSG was going to push it and have her kill herself and the baby. That would have made her really despicable even though she was in a crazed, drugged out state.

Too bad though that she didn't go on and pushed the button while Tory was locked in there with her. I can't stand Tory, and I can't stand her as a FF. Chief didn't seem too broken up about finding out he was a Cylon. Well she really didn't and seems to be embracing it. Tyrol's revelation evidently didn't help things between he and Cally since she mentioned that that was when things for her got worse and she became so much more depressed. I wonder how her death will affect him knowing that he helped drive her to kill herself.

I don't think Tory will tell Tyrol the truth about her killing Cally. She probably didn't won't even reveal that Cally knew about them. (Though I suppose it will make her wonder if Cally told anyone else about them...so that might be reason enough to eventually reveal that Cally knew.)


I don't see them eliminating the 6s and 8s (and possibly even the 2s) this early...as well as the newly uninhibited Chromdomes (I'm assuming only the ones on 6's, etc. ships were freed from their inhibitors). That would make for one boring Cylon storyline as I don't like the three remaining Cylons.


Hmm they are going to have to do a better job with Lee's new story. He should have discussed that classified doc with Roslin first before calling her out on it like that. (The writers sure are driving a wedge between those two.) Sure he wants that to come to light but he could have at least come to her first. I guess I'll have to wait and see where this is going. Not sure why he'd be so concerned about her appointing people to serve as tribunal judges, at this point in time. Just who are we expecting to go on trial? Unless this is somehow going to eventually come in to play with the FF storyline. (Or will these tribunals also be required to make rulings on the "constitutionality" of laws that she may enact through executive power.)

And yeah, I loved how Zarek has been reduced to sitting at Roslin's right hand with nothing to do but bang the gavel. Had to chuckle at that. :D

munciefan
April 19th, 2008, 12:11 PM
ok, completely stupid question, but I am old and forgetful, but what happened to this first human/cylon baby (i.e., is it back with the fleet?)

it seems like these hybrids are popping up all over the place...

ToasterOnFire
April 19th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Another thing: it's been confirmed that you can see the constellation Orion (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Orion_belt.jpg) during the basestar battle. I can't believe something so blatant would be put in by accident.

Arative
April 19th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Another thing: it's been confirmed that you can see the constellation Orion (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Orion_belt.jpg) during the basestar battle. I can't believe something so blatant would be put in by accident.

Yeah I had read that. But wouldn't that mean they were close to earth? Orion only looks like Orion from earth doesn't it? I mean if we were on another planet, we couldn't see Orion. But it is very interesting.

I do think that Torry just really doesn't want to hang on to her humanity as much as Tyrol, Tigh and Anders do. So that will be interesting to see what happens.

Skydiver
April 19th, 2008, 01:20 PM
orion would look like orion as long as you're 'in line' with earth...so you could be hundreds of light years away, but be in line with earth adn still see orion as we see it

daniel9
April 19th, 2008, 01:24 PM
the big and little dipper was in the scene when starbuck was looking out the window

Arative
April 19th, 2008, 01:41 PM
orion would look like orion as long as you're 'in line' with earth...so you could be hundreds of light years away, but be in line with earth adn still see orion as we see it

Ok that makes sense. I guess they are closer than they realize.

Trek_Girl42
April 19th, 2008, 02:05 PM
the big and little dipper was in the scene when starbuck was looking out the window
Sweet. Must go re-watch looking for constellations. I love the idea of all these subtle hints that they're getting closer. :D

daniel9
April 19th, 2008, 02:46 PM
lol yup and with how close the big dipper is to orion does this mean the demetrius will run into natalie and her gang?

Jumper_One
April 19th, 2008, 03:10 PM
this ep was ok. Cally's death was a little rushed imo but still well done. the Doc was so cool, smoking and pretending to be a ******* while talking about her marriage. I was hoping to see more of Kara and their mission but I guess we'll know soon enough - or not LOL. so what's up with the Cylons? are the 6s and 8s really gone? for once Baltar wasn't mentioned which is ok imo, this was more of a Cally ep. Lee seems to be the pain in the butt I imagined. I'm curious about executive order 112, hopefully this won't be forgotten. his role in Roslin's government will be interesting. not sure what the next ep's about but I'm looking forward to it

LightMeDark
April 19th, 2008, 03:59 PM
I liked the episode (though I suppose I'm in the minority for wanting more Blatar). The only thing that really bugged me was Cally giving Tory the baby...it was just unbelievable to both my fiancee and me. Sure, she was drugged out, but I still don't see her letting anyone take the baby.

daniel9
April 19th, 2008, 04:02 PM
I liked the episode (though I suppose I'm in the minority for wanting more Blatar).

lol youll get what u want in the next ep

LoneStar1836
April 19th, 2008, 06:18 PM
ok, completely stupid question, but I am old and forgetful, but what happened to this first human/cylon baby (i.e., is it back with the fleet?)

it seems like these hybrids are popping up all over the place...
Hera is on Galactica. Three found her on New Caprica and Sharon later found out she was alive and had Helo shoot her so she could resurrect and find Hera. Then Caprica Six helped them escape the basestar.

I can't believe that Sharon and Helo would leave to go on this mission with Kara and leave Hera behind. I doubt that they would take her with them (maybe they did but it wasn't mentioned I don't think), but I can't see both of them leaving her behind after all the stuff they have had to go through.

Mongoletsi
April 19th, 2008, 06:37 PM
Dylan 4
Huh?

daniel9
April 19th, 2008, 07:30 PM
lol i think they meant the 4 of the final 5. cylon4

GateShip One
April 19th, 2008, 07:49 PM
Huh?

Those 4 found out they were Cylons because of All Along the Watchtower, a Bob Dylan song, hence the Dylan 4.

turtlesstartedit
April 19th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Just a point of clarification... the cylon ambush of the other cylons can be totally successful and there will still be sixes and eights around (Caprica 6 is in the brig on Galactica and Boomer 8 is with the Cavils and the like and Athena 8 is with Starbuck). If the ambush is successful, one would assume that the raiders will be lobotomized and the remaining Centurions would be normal non-sentient. Not sure if there are any extra Leobens hanging around...

It really seems like the writers don't have a plan and are making it up as they go... Chief's and Cally's kid would seem to be a half-breed, making Helo's and Athena's less unique... and it bothers me that the six Cylon models in the Cylon fleet aren't always shown... either the producers are being cheap or scheduling errors are preventing them from getting them altogether... even when they do show some of the other models, they don't always have speaking roles, making me wonder if they weren't photoshopped in...

I definitely got suckered into the ending of this episode and didn't see the last couple of twists coming (no I can't watch Cally killing herself and her baby... no wait, Tory is going to kill them... oh no Tory is sweet (great acting btw) and saving them... NO DIDN'T SEE THAT BACKHAND COMING!)... glad the show is on late, would hate to have that feeling of sad surprise stuck with me all day...

Jimmy_J
April 19th, 2008, 08:18 PM
I hated him to! Roslin should be held accountable. But I hate seeing it, and I hate whoever's doing it. Though I still admire Lee for his intent. Confusing much? :P

What intent? Lee Adama (aka the Fool) did it just to strike back like a little spoiled little frak that he always is (that idiot smirk gave it away).

Everything that fool does is to strike back at either Daddy, the President or anyone in authority who hurts his little feelings. Even Tom Z was reacting very negatively (more like WTF?) at the way he brought it up. Tom is using that naive fool for his own purposes but openly outing him as the source in the middle of the meeting is not what Tom intended. He gave the fool too much credit for having a brain in that idiot head.

If you haven't guessed by now I hate the Lee Adama character with a passion.

daniel9
April 19th, 2008, 08:24 PM
What intent? Lee Adama (aka the Fool) did it just to strike back like a little spoiled little frak that he always is (that idiot smirk gave it away).

Everything that fool does is to strike back at either Daddy, the President or anyone in authority who hurts his little feelings. Even Tom Z was reacting very negatively (more like WTF?) at the way he brought it up. Tom is using that naive fool for his own purposes but openly outing him as the source in the middle of the meeting is not what Tom intended. He gave the fool too much credit for having a brain in that idiot head.

If you haven't guessed by now I hate the Lee Adama character with a passion.
we need a certain recent buddyof apollo to come back and get his but in gear

ToasterOnFire
April 19th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Yeah I had read that. But wouldn't that mean they were close to earth?
That was my guess. I'm guessing that the cylons don't know that they're that close to earth, seeing as they wouldn't recognize it or its constellations?


I can't believe that Sharon and Helo would leave to go on this mission with Kara and leave Hera behind. I doubt that they would take her with them (maybe they did but it wasn't mentioned I don't think), but I can't see both of them leaving her behind after all the stuff they have had to go through.
I couldn't believe it either. I also didn't understand why so many people had to accompany Starbuck in the first place. I figured it would be a skeleton crew at best and there wouldn't be nearly as many important people on board.


Those 4 found out they were Cylons because of All Along the Watchtower, a Bob Dylan song, hence the Dylan 4.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I haven't caught on to calling them collectively the final five or FF because we don't know the fifth yet. Sorry for any confusion. :)

pynapl
April 19th, 2008, 09:48 PM
Granted, if roles were reversed and it Anders was the woman taking all that crap from her husband (Starbuck) (:P), we'd all be saying "get the hell out of there!" Which makes me second guess my opinions on Anders's position. But I still love him for it.

And I am so scared that Anders is going to do that as well..... :S

Now that you point that out, and I reread what I wrote… yeah, that is scary that he is putting up with all of that. You’re exactly right, if the roles were reversed, we would be supporting the “leave!” option immediately. (Makes one wonder how much more of the situation he can take before he decides not to put up with it anymore…)


I also wonder how much of the Chief's humanity was wrapped up into his commitment to Cally. I know he has Nicky, but I fear that Tory will attempt to manipulate him somehow, or his own programming will begin to influence him, or something...the last time he had suspicions he was a Cylon he reacted violently. What's he going to become now that he knows he is one, and his family is shattered?

I suspect it’s going to make him more susceptible to Tory’s influence…and if I were him, I’d loose my footing pretty quick after discovering of Cally’s death. I also fear for the well-being of his son… I mean, like you point out, he reacted violently before…and now that he knows he’s a cylon for a fact—I suppose it depends on how well he embraces his inner-cylon, if you know what I mean. Will he see himself as a monster or as someone who can help the human race? (And how will he view his son in that respect?) :confused:


What I was suprised the most about was that Kara was not alone on the Demetrius. (I had been asking myself since last week if she would go nuts out there alone)



I couldn't believe it either. I also didn't understand why so many people had to accompany Starbuck in the first place. I figured it would be a skeleton crew at best and there wouldn't be nearly as many important people on board.

I was taken by surprise by this as well, especially since this mission appears questionable. I understand the need to have others with to validate any of Kara’s findings, but… well, this way it opens the doors for good drama, right? ;)



Another thing: it's been confirmed that you can see the constellation Orion (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Orion_belt.jpg) during the basestar battle. I can't believe something so blatant would be put in by accident.

the big and little dipper was in the scene when starbuck was looking out the window

I must pay attention to the star patterns in future episodes! :cool:



i'm wondering if it ties into Kara somehow. If there's some people tha share a genetic makeup with kara of some sort that makes them succeptible/open to cylon info/broadcasting

like, what if kara and possibly callie are early generation 'half breeds'? a result of some sort of genetic manipulation from the first cylon war, some sort of test that's been left to run its course for years

I found myself wondering about Kara and the potential that her mother might not have told her everything that happened to her during that first war. Genetic Manipulation could have been part of it. (I wonder if that plays into Kara’s “destiny” of sorts…if not genetic manipulation, maybe her mother ran into one of those hybrids that prophesize left and right…)

jenks
April 19th, 2008, 10:13 PM
I was half enjoying this until the end, and then it went a bit mental. I've got no problem with characters deaths, but it seems really convenient that she just went straight for the airlock and didn't just tell someone, anyone that they were Cylons on the way. I know she was bit ****ed in the head by then and on loads of meds but that's not good enough imo. The last scene kind of made the majority of the episode seem pointless, I mean when you think of what was actually conveyed...

AutumnDream
April 20th, 2008, 02:01 AM
The way I saw the Lee thing was, he was trying to help her out by shutting up the various people bickering. She shot him down, basically being ungrateful and humiliating him. So he decided to make her squirm a little because that was a pretty uncool thing for her to do. I dunno, it seems like Laura is just holding the grudge as she usually does. She's been getting pretty hardcore. Lee could have been more mature about it but she wasn't exactly undeserving.

metabog
April 20th, 2008, 06:14 AM
Nooooooooooooo... *sniff*

That was horrible but memorable.

And they're going to unbox the D'Anna's, yeepeeee!!!

And Kara, lol i just wanna frakk!! and frakk and frakk and frakk!!!

SoulReaver
April 20th, 2008, 08:04 AM
I've mixed feelings about Tori : on one hand what she did although tactically wise, was morally wrong - on the other hand it was Cally who went to the airlock in the 1st place and she was about to take an kid along with her, her own kid at that. plus she was one helluvan annoying brat to begin with :|

how the civil wars between 1,4,5 & 2,6,8 plays out should be interesting to see (btw this will seem like hindsight but I swear to gods it isn't, I could smell that ambush the moment Cavil started agreeing to the other camp's terms http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/knyten.gif)


Tyrol doesn't even seem to care that Tory killed his wife and the mother of his child, especially going on what they showed in the previews for next week.more like Tyrol doesn't even seem to know about it


Anyone notice Weapons Lock 1701D?http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/loupiote.gif red alert shields up http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/loupiote.gif

[I]these are the voyagers of the starship Galactica. its continuing mission : to seek out new life & new civilizations Earth (frak the rest, they've trouble enough with their own lives & civilization -)

Dusk
April 20th, 2008, 08:53 AM
Awwwww frak! That was a jaw-dropper! What the hell has happened to Tory? Perhaps she simply feared that Cally would tip off Roslin and Adama about Galactica's Cylon posse. But woah, that's just cold. Right up to the end I thought it was surely a dream of hallucination. Wasn't I surprised?!

And yet, it wasn't the death of Cally that had me worried, but the possible extinction of the 6's and 8's. They cannot be purged, they are my favourite models!! There surely must be a way they escaped the onslaught. I dearly hope so anyway. And I was hoping to see D'Anna... hopefully soon.

I am also shocked that Starbuck got such a heady crew. Interesting.

Major annoyance at Lee digging at the President and being manipulated by Zareck. I just hope in the end Lee fights for Roslin and doesn't antagonize her.

Next week looks like more of the Baltar plot, which for me is the weakest of Season 4's threads at the moment.

Mongoletsi
April 20th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Those 4 found out they were Cylons because of All Along the Watchtower, a Bob Dylan song, hence the Dylan 4.
That's not a bad name for them actually.

Which reminds me; we keep hearing how Lee, or Roslin, or Gaeta, or... well a load of people may be the fifth. But none of them appeared to hear the music - and the others were certainly affected massively by it, so no chance the fifth person would be able to disguise it me thinks. Which leads us to; the fifth must be somebody who wasn't with the fleet at the time (Starbuck/Kendra Shaw) or somebody we didn't see (Zarek?).

I know it's been debated over and over. This episode was clearly meant to make us think Starbuck is the 5th. But we "know" she's not because; a. It'd be too easy for the writers, and b. She's in the "Last Supper" picture (as is Roslin and Lee Adama) - if you didn't know, RDM has categorically stated that anybody in the pic who isn't already "revealed" isn't a Cylon.

Conjecture aside, I think S4 has got off to a hammy, cheesy, and altogether "over the top" start and isn't any improvement on S3 (which started well, but...) It's still good, but not as good as I'd hoped - we'll still lap it up though ;) But lately stuff has been bothering me... the latest being, why do the Cylons always jump in, some distance away, allowing fighters to be scrambled and the fleet to jump? Why not jump in right on top and mince the fleet?

Yeah slowly getting a bit irritated/bored by it - perhaps cos of the massive wait raising expectations so much?

turtlesstartedit
April 20th, 2008, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=Dusk;8097636
And yet, it wasn't the death of Cally that had me worried, but the possible extinction of the 6's and 8's. They cannot be purged, they are my favourite models!! There surely must be a way they escaped the onslaught. I dearly hope so anyway. And I was hoping to see D'Anna... hopefully soon.]


There are other 6's and 8's around (see my previous post)... they won't become extinct. Who knows about the 2's though...

Apollux
April 20th, 2008, 04:09 PM
But lately stuff has been bothering me... the latest being, why do the Cylons always jump in, some distance away, allowing fighters to be scrambled and the fleet to jump? Why not jump in right on top and mince the fleet?

That has been on my mind for a long time as well.

And for those wondering if there are more 2s, 6s & 8s (aside from those already onboard Galactica/Demetrius)...
The filtered spoilers, by Sci-Fi to boot, clearly say that they are more than a couple and in two episodes from now the Demetrius will find and rescue some (if not all) the survivors from the Cylon vs Cylon ambush.. so yeah, they are pretty physically close to each other.

MarshAngel
April 20th, 2008, 04:38 PM
I was half enjoying this until the end, and then it went a bit mental. I've got no problem with characters deaths, but it seems really convenient that she just went straight for the airlock and didn't just tell someone, anyone that they were Cylons on the way. I know she was bit ****ed in the head by then and on loads of meds but that's not good enough imo. The last scene kind of made the majority of the episode seem pointless, I mean when you think of what was actually conveyed...

I think it became overwhelming at that point. If those four of all people could be Cylons, why trust anyone at all? When you're at that point nothing and no one matters. To inform someone would suggest that she cared about the outcome and decisions that would be made and I don't think anything mattered at that point but ending it for herself and anyone who got in her way. I bet that if she'd had a bomb in hand she wouldn't care about the collateral damage either.


I am also shocked that Starbuck got such a heady crew. Interesting.
I was surprised by that as well. It seems a big risk to send off so many good pilots on a trip that might go nowhere and, as far as they know, may be led by a cylon.

SoulReaver
April 20th, 2008, 04:41 PM
but the possible extinction of the 6's and 8's.very unlikely. maybe those caught in the ambush were taken out but that was only a fraction of them
plus they may even have the centurions on their side (depending on how many of these were "freed")

Lightbane
April 21st, 2008, 12:10 AM
Damn... Cally is DEAD!! So did not expect that! Tory is sooo evil, of course she did it to protect the secret.. but she had a sort of cold mocking on her face when she hit the release button.

The Demetrius is looking quite interesting now, Kara seems to be more of a loony then she was before!

There were hints in that episode that seemed to lead the other characters to suspect that Lee or Kara could be the final cylon, because what Kara said to Sam it seemed to make it suspect to him that she could possibly a cylon, and I think it was Lee talking to Tigh that might have sprung something there.

Now does everybody think that the fifth is unknowing like Boomer was? Or do you think this person knows it and is hiding it?

omega431
April 21st, 2008, 08:59 AM
But lately stuff has been bothering me... the latest being, why do the Cylons always jump in, some distance away, allowing fighters to be scrambled and the fleet to jump? Why not jump in right on top and mince the fleet?

Yeah slowly getting a bit irritated/bored by it - perhaps cos of the massive wait raising expectations so much?

Because they don't know exactly where they are and what their velocity vector is before they jump in (which raises the question of FTL communications). They could jump into the fleet and have a ship inadvertently ram them or even jump right into a ship. You want a wide safety margin. Not to mention in this case I don't know that the Cylons knew they would find the Colonials there.

entil2001
April 21st, 2008, 03:28 PM
When a series is working towards a pre-determined end date, the production staff has a tendency to look towards less conventional storytelling. After all, the opportunities for creative expression are fewer and fewer with each passing week. Doing something unusual is pretty much a “now or never” proposition.

This is mostly applicable to the scenes related to Cally and her state of mind. The camera work is designed to communicate her psychological state, particularly the mixture of antidepressants and sleep depravation. Because this dominates the episode, given her eventual death, the effectiveness of the unusual technique is tied directly to the success of the episode. For my part, I thought it was a bit forced.

Similarly, I had some issue with Cally’s mindset that it might be all right for Tyrol to hit her, because then at least she’d know that he felt something towards her. Even if it has already been established as something she might believe (after the events of “Crossroads”, in particular), it’s not something that necessarily needed to be reinforced. Tyrol’s savage beating of Cally, followed by their relationship and marriage, was always a sore spot for me.

It’s troubling, then, to see similar logic now applied to the Sam/Kara relationship. Granted, Kara is in a deeply disturbing psychological state, but it’s the effect of her status as visionary and prophet. Pushing Anders to his limits, hoping he’ll lose control and take her along for the ride, just doesn’t feel right. Then again, everything about Kara since her return has been confusing and contradictory.

Speaking of Kara’s current role, now that Kara’s visions are emerging, other astronomical evidence is beginning to suggest that Earth is not far away at all. The gas giant in Kara’s memory looked suspiciously like Jupiter (tying into the “Eye of Jupiter” reference rather nicely), and in two instances, the constellation of Orion was plainly visible in its familiar configuration, which is only visible from Earth’s general location!

So the fleet should actually be very close to the end goal now. In fact, based on the map acquired in “Home”, they should be able to figure out the right coordinates. They know where the nebula in the Sagittarius Cluster is located on the “Home” map, and the star field probably included the constellation of Orion. All they should have to do now is find the Gemini part of the “Home” map and plot a course. It should be fairly easy.

Of course, at the same time, ever since finding the Ionian Nebula, Roslin has been resisting a number of actions that could complete the exodus to Earth. Not only that, but as seen in the surprisingly entertaining Quorum scenes in this episode, Roslin has been slowly but surely consolidating power and authority. Zarek is concerned, despite feeling that Roslin has her heart in the right place.

Lee might be advised to question both motives: Zarek could be supportive to Roslin in the hopes of taking her place when she dies. It certainly would make sense for Zarek to take Lee under his wing and secure a political ally. Roslin’s motives, however, are more elusive. If the fleet is really as close to Earth as it seems, could she be subconsciously trying to point them in the wrong direction? I’m waiting for the one solid moment that will point to Roslin acting out of character.

That moment came for Tory in this episode, and it has ruffled some feathers. The writers clearly had something in mind for each of the four new Cylons, in terms of how they would react. Tigh is still pushing for everyone to act normally, and Tyrol is trying to maintain a sense of balance (and clearly losing the battle). Anders is dealing more with his identity with his relationship to Kara to change in any other way.

That leaves Tory, the one with the least complicated background, to be the recently-emergent Cylon with a calculated edge. In this episode, she seems to revel in the opportunity to be more than the simple aide to Roslin that she’s been. She sees Cally as a problem, recognizes Nicky as something important, and she acts accordingly to resolve the issue. I wouldn’t call it evil, but she’s certainly no longer thinking and acting out of purely human concerns.

If all characters are created equal, then it’s not really a problem for Tory to take this direction. After all, she is the only one of the four newly-revealed Cylons without a massive history. But on top of Cally’s death, this is another female character (and one of color, for that matter) to take a negative turn. And that’s in addition to Kara’s mental breakdown and Roslin’s health issues. And of course, there’s also the Cylon situation. In the latest round of the now heated Cylon Civil War, the male Cylons effectively wiped out a huge chunk of the female Cylons. The writers might consider striking a balance before much longer.

The Cylon Civil War serves to keep the Cylon fleet away from the Colonial fleet for a time, but it also weakens the Cylons enough that their numbers might be too low to annihilate the Colonials. That, in conjunction with the intervention of the Final Five, could bring about the circumstances of the series’ conclusion. Boomer is clearly an important part of the equation, and I suspect that the severity of the current conflict may be her doing.

Ultimately, despite the high profile death at the end of the episode, this episode felt like it was missing something. Maybe it was my dissatisfaction with the style choice with Cally’s perspective, or my distaste for some of the psychology at play. Generally speaking, I like where the story is heading, but this was not how I would have preferred to get there.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2008
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

MarshAngel
April 21st, 2008, 05:50 PM
...But on top of Cally’s death, this is another female character (and one of color, for that matter) to take a negative turn. And that’s in addition to Kara’s mental breakdown and Roslin’s health issues. And of course, there’s also the Cylon situation. In the latest round of the now heated Cylon Civil War, the male Cylons effectively wiped out a huge chunk of the female Cylons. The writers might consider striking a balance before much longer.

That's just silly. Fiction is free to to take on real life politics and social problems without needing to be subject to them. If this is a case of art imitating life then its worth noting that life doesn't make much of an effort to be fair on issues of race and sex by trying to balance the numbers. What possible enhancement to the plot could be gained by ensuring that color and sex is even?

GateofDOOM
April 21st, 2008, 06:01 PM
Heh. I guess I'm the only person who feels Roslin is getting to big for her britches and seriously needs to be reigned in? When Lee was ratting her out in front of the quorum I was thinking, "Go Lee! Get her, get her, get her!"

She definitely is holding a grudge towards Lee because of the Baltar trial, and I'm not saying what Lee did was the best thing ever, but she needs to understand that not everyone in the fleet is going to agree with her. It's starting to feel like we're getting our dying leader and ramping her up to paranoid and controlling. I guess she's afraid of letting someone else take the helm from her and then leading the humans to disaster (like Baltar did), but she is starting to go overboard. This is not a good combination IMO and I really think Lee needs to push the issues he can.

I also think that some of the stories this season are moving a little slow or are missing something. I'm sure how I feel about this season yet.

Corona
April 21st, 2008, 08:58 PM
Let's see if Cally doesn't pop up in the goo tub on the resurection ship. Maybe this was an expressway there.

Next, Lee may be working with Rosalyn to uncover a conspiracy and Zarek is testing his loyalty. He passed.

Just a thought.

Lady Snow
April 21st, 2008, 11:53 PM
Today, I'm going to start by talking about Lee. :)


I disagree about the assessment that Lee Adama was grandstanding in his new appointed position. He has consistently stood up for the "rule of law", first in opposing the "military coup" ordered by his father to oust Roslin, and, just as forcefully, by bringing Roslin to the stand to make the state prove their case against Baltar. I'm having some memory problems about the Executive Order 112, that Lee brought up so prominently, however. Wasn't this the final act that Zarek put in place before stepping down after New Caprica so the "secret courts" could cleanse the fleet of Collaborators? Didn't he explain this as a method of keeping Roslin's "hands clean"? If so, why couldn't Roslin simply explain it as a bad legacy act that she herself had washed her hands of ? Roslin definitely objected to those "kangaroo courts" and ended them when she came to know of them. When did she flip positions?

The executive order Zarek gave in "Collaborators" was never given a number nor made public - not even, I believe, to the Quorum. EO112, as per Roslin's own description, had only been proposed and had not yet been finished. I'm guessing this is what was in the "Classified" folder Zarek gave Lee, but that could have been about anything from a new color scheme for the upholstery to the Demetrius' mission. I'm pretty sure Roslin flipped positions, as it were, after Baltar's trial. Remember her conversation with the Admiral? That certainly suggested to me that she wants to control the judicial branch so as to get her preferred result, at least in the high-profile cases. Is Lee and/or Zarek wrong for calling public attention to this? Absolutely not. Cain did the same thing to Adama regarding the independent tribunals - and now that precedents have been established, it's important for the RTF (who are still clinging to Colonial law ) to separate the branches of government.

---


[b]The way I saw the Lee thing was, he was trying to help her out by shutting up the various people bickering. She shot him down, basically being ungrateful and humiliating him. So he decided to make her squirm a little because that was a pretty uncool thing for her to do. I dunno, it seems like Laura is just holding the grudge as she usually does. She's been getting pretty hardcore. Lee could have been more mature about it but she wasn't exactly undeserving.
emphasis mine

I don't know about Lee trying to help Roslin out, but you nailed the single most important thing about that entire scene - when Lee stood up to talk, everyone else shut the frak up. Everyone. Not even the reporters were talking. When Roslin was talking, there were murmurs; nobody listened to Zarek trying to call order; and when that poor sap from Sagittaron (what happened to Sarah?) was talking, not even Roslin was listening to him. But Lee, for whatever reason, already commands more attention among the other delegates than does anyone else. It could be his military experience, especially when he brought up the Demetrius; it could be his sheer newness, and people might want to see which way he's leaning before they disregard him; it could be his high-profile status, what with the Baltar trial and his heroics in the military. I don't know, but I do find it pretty amazing that a "junior delegate" can rather easily shut up a room full of politicians and reporters.

---


Heh. I guess I'm the only person who feels Roslin is getting to big for her britches and seriously needs to be reigned in? When Lee was ratting her out in front of the quorum I was thinking, "Go Lee! Get her, get her, get her!"

She definitely is holding a grudge towards Lee because of the Baltar trial, and I'm not saying what Lee did was the best thing ever, but she needs to understand that not everyone in the fleet is going to agree with her. It's starting to feel like we're getting our dying leader and ramping her up to paranoid and controlling. I guess she's afraid of letting someone else take the helm from her and then leading the humans to disaster (like Baltar did), but she is starting to go overboard. This is not a good combination IMO and I really think Lee needs to push the issues he can.
emphasis mine

Yeah, these past few episodes have really built up doubt in Roslin, both as the "dying leader" and as a level-headed leader. I've certainly fallen under the influence of those who are sick of her. :) We'd seen it in private matters (like her conversation with the Admiral), but to bring such doubt out in a public forum such as the Quorum is certainly hammering the point home. I think it's also important that we take a step back here and remember that Roslin has never won an election. She has had leadership handed to her on a silver platter - twice. Does she need to be challenged? Frak yes. Does it appear anyone before Lee has done that (during the course of a term)? Not so much.

I can't fault Lee for standing up and speaking out in his first Quorum session. He wasn't asked to be the Caprica representative so he could sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else, he's there to participate and to make a difference - his words to Kara when describing how it felt like his destiny. If making a difference is opposing acts that counter established Colonial democracy and standing up to the increasingly-tyrannical Roslin (and apparently seeming like a whiny ***** in the process [a sentiment with which I certainly do not agree]), then so be it.

On a somewhat lighter note, I thought the Quorum representatives were elected (see "Colonial Day," when Starbuck informs Baltar that he got the super-genius vote after he became Caprica's representative). Are they not anymore? Did Roslin change this, too? ;)


[More later - this post feels massive already. :)]

Lightbane
April 22nd, 2008, 03:22 AM
I belive Sarah got killed by the cylons, the representative for Geminon? She died I belive, but it might be a different one I'm thinking of though because it happened on Kobol

Skydiver
April 22nd, 2008, 05:43 AM
it would be the twist of a lifetime if callie was the 12th. not only cause it'd come out of left field, but also because the cylons have cured their inability to procreate...unless nicky isn't galen's son

I do think that roslyn has it in her to be too domineering. 'i know what's best for you so let me do it' forgetting that she's not a dictator

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 22nd, 2008, 06:42 AM
it would be the twist of a lifetime if callie was the 12th.

I don't think so. I think Nicky isn't like Sharon's baby. The final five are different to other 'skinjobs'...Maybe its how they were made, or what they were made of. Either way, I don't think Cally is coming back...at least not as the Cally we knew.

She might be in a flashback or an illusion or something though.

Pharaoh Atem
April 22nd, 2008, 06:47 AM
the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..

Briangate78
April 22nd, 2008, 07:07 AM
it would be the twist of a lifetime if callie was the 12th. not only cause it'd come out of left field, but also because the cylons have cured their inability to procreate...unless nicky isn't galen's son

I do think that roslyn has it in her to be too domineering. 'i know what's best for you so let me do it' forgetting that she's not a dictator

That would be a very very clever twist.


the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..

Because they don't know if Cally is a Cylon or not. They sure did a job on Col Tigh on New Caprica. That is truly hurting their own.

Skydiver
April 22nd, 2008, 08:26 AM
the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..
umm....and one of the sixes blew away a room full of cavils and then the cavils blew up ships full of othe cylons

that directive doesn't seem to matter much anymore

MarshAngel
April 22nd, 2008, 10:04 AM
the hybrid said that 'they will not hurt there own" and yet tori killed cally ..

I think the Hybrid was specifically talking about only the Raiders, which I'm assuming, like the Centurions are probably programmed not to kill any of the human-form Cylons unless reprogrammed to do so.

wilsan
April 22nd, 2008, 11:31 AM
I think the Hybrid was specifically talking about only the Raiders, which I'm assuming, like the Centurions are probably programmed not to kill any of the human-form Cylons unless reprogrammed to do so.

I'm not so sure, now that the Centurians have free will they may kill them if they see them and if they don't know who they are. But based on the reactions of the raiders when the one saw Sanders, they may have the same reaction.

Falcon_prv
April 22nd, 2008, 01:26 PM
Like in Southpark;

OMG they killed Callie

Bray
April 22nd, 2008, 01:57 PM
Callie NOOOOOO!

generaloneill
April 22nd, 2008, 02:28 PM
Wow, I was so not prepared for this. This episode hit me harder then the other 2 this season have. I had heard rumours about Cally killing herself, and I was terrified for the baby. Very few shows can leave you absolutely terrified of a character dying like Galactica can. Then, I thought it was all ok, and BAM! Tory shoots her out the airlock. Wow.

My weekend is now screwed up. No joke. But, as bad as it makes everything seem, thats why I love this show. Nothing else has such power, the ability to jab a knife into your heart and twist it around. Its amazing.

agreed i never saw that coming i'm still in shock i was expecting tyrol to show up and stop her opening the airlock.

the starbuck/demetrius story was so boring. :ronananime17:

favourite scene adama reading to roslin.

least favourite character in this episode tory go to cylon hell you frakking toaster do us a favour don't resurect puts a gun to tory's head and opens fire :jack_new_anime25: :ronananime16:


Anyone notice Weapons Lock 1701D?

i did bit weird seeing that number on galactica

i hope cally will be the 12th model it would be worth it to see the look on tory's face when the 12th model is revealed to be cally. RIP Cally

Ed
April 22nd, 2008, 02:51 PM
im thinking the sixs eights and twos abandon ship in heavy raiders or even normal raiders with the centorians go back to where ever the threes got boxed and un box them

i liked six saying please to the centurians thats going to bite her in the ass soon

anotherquestion
April 22nd, 2008, 05:00 PM
Let's see if Cally doesn't pop up in the goo tub on the resurection ship. Maybe this was an expressway there.

Next, Lee may be working with Rosalyn to uncover a conspiracy and Zarek is testing his loyalty. He passed.

Just a thought.

I think it would have been more interesting to have seen if little Nicky showed up in a tub of goo, had Cally fulfilled her original intentions.

GrahamTastic
April 22nd, 2008, 07:58 PM
Great episode. REALLY sad though!! Talk about intense...
And yeah...starbuck storyline= really slow

daniel9
April 23rd, 2008, 11:39 AM
lol i wonder whatd happen if cally returned because of the ship of lights?

TameFarrar
April 23rd, 2008, 02:49 PM
I have to say I was pretty much *Blahed* by this whole episode.

I would have cared that Cally died had I even understood why she had gone around the bend and was so emotionally unstable that she would be willing to kill herself as well as her child. Sorry but I don't think RDM showed that well enough. It was too fast, too frantic and made her death ....not much

Tory....and here we thought the fianl 5 might be a bit more enlightened than the other 7...guess what...NOT.

I don't know if it is my disgust at RDM for bringing a minor character to the forefront or my dislike of the performance of this actress. But I completely am bored by the Tory storyline and have gotten coffee most times she and anyone are on screen. This character came out of nowhere and is now a huge part of the show. Annoys me that RDM & co couldn't use a character that we at least had something invested. As it is I feel nothing and could care less what happens to at least Tory and Anders.... Tigh and Tyrol I have at least some time invested in and they are interesting when they are not acting like junkies needing a fix.

Starbuck and the Hunt for Red.Oct......Opps I meant Earth :) What a mess of a character . Kara was a bit disoriented and willing to do many things to get some belief in her. But now here she is actually on her way and Adama did give her a chance....and this is what we see. A demented Kara Thrace that is acting like *Capt Ahab*...where was that white devil whale hiding anyhow. Then the whole thing with Anders...excuse me... Ummmm could they have made Anders any more pathetic...I didn't believe so...until now. :(

The Cylon storyline was at least interesting, intriguing and had a nice surprise moment. The CGI was excellent as well.

For the first time since this show aired....I am seriously not worried about seeing it.... it is getting to convaluted and and too dark to make me even care if they find earth... let alone deserve to live there.

Pharaoh Atem
April 23rd, 2008, 02:52 PM
the way i took the hybrids message was that the final 5 won't hurt anyone on galactica .....

..i didn't think of the raiders

TameFarrar
April 23rd, 2008, 07:24 PM
the way i took the hybrids message was that the final 5 won't hurt anyone on galactica .....

..i didn't think of the raiders

LOL I guess someone should have told Tory about that message BEFORE she went into that airlock :) ;)

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2008, 07:45 PM
callie going crackers would have been more believable had we actually seen it over the past few eps, or at least had galen mention how whacked his wife had been acting.

it's almost as if, rdm decided to kill her but could only get the actress for one eps, so she was brought back just to kill her

You know, even if they couild have only gotten her for one week, couldn't they have sprinkled a scene or two earlier in the run, just to establish callie cracking up?

Classic
April 24th, 2008, 01:22 AM
Have I missed something? Why hasn't there been a fuss made over the second hybrid child (Callie and Tyrol's) as there was with Hera? Is is because the original 7 cylon models don't know about the 4 on Galactica? Perhaps it's because the father here is the Cylon, rather than the mother? Did Torrey make sure she saved the child because it's a hybrid? (I don't think it's because she's a humanitarian). Does anyone think this will be part of the developing story of season 4? I'd love to know what Callie was thinking when she was thinking of taking her child out with her for a walk in space. Or was she not thinking at all, just completely going off the deep end, so to speak.

GateofDOOM
April 24th, 2008, 02:03 AM
Spoiler tag for length!



The executive order Zarek gave in "Collaborators" was never given a number nor made public - not even, I believe, to the Quorum. EO112, as per Roslin's own description, had only been proposed and had not yet been finished. I'm guessing this is what was in the "Classified" folder Zarek gave Lee, but that could have been about anything from a new color scheme for the upholstery to the Demetrius' mission. I'm pretty sure Roslin flipped positions, as it were, after Baltar's trial. Remember her conversation with the Admiral? That certainly suggested to me that she wants to control the judicial branch so as to get her preferred result, at least in the high-profile cases. Is Lee and/or Zarek wrong for calling public attention to this? Absolutely not. Cain did the same thing to Adama regarding the independent tribunals - and now that precedents have been established, it's important for the RTF (who are still clinging to Colonial law [but that's a different story entirely...]) to separate the branches of government.

I don't know about Lee trying to help Roslin out, but you nailed the single most important thing about that entire scene - when Lee stood up to talk, everyone else shut the frak up. Everyone. Not even the reporters were talking. When Roslin was talking, there were murmurs; nobody listened to Zarek trying to call order; and when that poor sap from Sagittaron (what happened to Sarah?) was talking, not even Roslin was listening to him. But Lee, for whatever reason, already commands more attention among the other delegates than does anyone else. It could be his military experience, especially when he brought up the Demetrius; it could be his sheer newness, and people might want to see which way he's leaning before they disregard him; it could be his high-profile status, what with the Baltar trial and his heroics in the military. I don't know, but I do find it pretty amazing that a "junior delegate" can rather easily shut up a room full of politicians and reporters.

Yeah, these past few episodes have really built up doubt in Roslin, both as the "dying leader" and as a level-headed leader. I've certainly fallen under the influence of those who are sick of her. :) We'd seen it in private matters (like her conversation with the Admiral), but to bring such doubt out in a public forum such as the Quorum is certainly hammering the point home. I think it's also important that we take a step back here and remember that Roslin has never won an election. She has had leadership handed to her on a silver platter - twice. Does she need to be challenged? Frak yes. Does it appear anyone before Lee has done that (during the course of a term)? Not so much.

I can't fault Lee for standing up and speaking out in his first Quorum session. He wasn't asked to be the Caprica representative so he could sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else, he's there to participate and to make a difference - his words to Kara when describing how it felt like his destiny. If making a difference is opposing acts that counter established Colonial democracy and standing up to the increasingly-tyrannical Roslin (and apparently seeming like a whiny ***** in the process [a sentiment with which I certainly do not agree]), then so be it.


I just wanted to say I agree with everything you said...which is really odd because I am generally a contrarian. :D
Go Lee! Get Her! Get Her! Get Her!


Then the whole thing with Anders...excuse me... Ummmm could they have made Anders any more pathetic...I didn't believe so...until now.

Heh. My sentiments exactly.
Now everybody do a little imagining. Imagine that Anders is a girl and Starbuck is a guy. How objectionable do you find this depiction of Anders if he is a girl? Why is this behavior (accepting and even seeking abuse) more excusable in a guy? This guy needs some counseling, fast.

Lady Snow
April 24th, 2008, 10:32 AM
Real question: Concerning Boomer and Cavil... we're all assuming it's his idea, right? He's Model #1, he's making the public decisions. What if Boomer's running the show? I find it rather difficult to believe Cavil could seduce Boomer, or even find some way to require her services (the way he did with Ellen) - so why could this not go the other way? Couldn't Boomer have the agenda, wanting to see the religious Cylons gone? She has been rather disillusioned by the humans, and perhaps that's unhinged her more than we'd previously thought.

Skydiver
April 24th, 2008, 10:36 AM
interesting premise. boomer is using cavil to discredit his own 'kind' so that they can be shut down.

that'd be a cool twist

kudzoorude
April 24th, 2008, 02:13 PM
Got a thought to ponder.

Isn't it interesting that the guys in the 7 can't reproduce (presumption: with humans or skinjobs). But you have Chief with a son... Hmmm...

If the male skinjobs could reproduce with humans, wouldn't we have seen some evidence of it by now. The only thing I've heard of was that the Cylons were harvesting female reproductive organs. Might be nothing though.

TameFarrar
April 24th, 2008, 02:36 PM
RDM has already stated in Interviews that they are basically ignoring Tyrol's son and the whole hybrid issue with him.

Now RDM could have been lying or not know that he might come up with a story later. But at the time of the interviews that was his basic answer (paraphrased by me of course :))

I thought Dee was just as pathetic and in need of counseling in the whole *I wanted you as long as Kara would let me* cry fest.
So seeing Anders doing basically the same type of *self-abuse* for whatever his reasons are. Just made me cringe. This is the top people in the story and their aides in some way and all of them are essentially amoral, and seemingly sociopathic.

About the only decent human being on this show any longer is that little boy who got better from meningitis. ...

really makes me wonder what sorts of relationships the writers are using as their *template*

Albee
April 24th, 2008, 03:49 PM
I think the writers have set up Lee to be the final cylon as he has all of a sudden decided to be a politician, getting himself into a position of power and in te last episode he cliamed he didn;t know why he was changing career......it just reminds me of Leoben claiming that Adama was a cyclon - we all though he meant the admiral at the time but now.....

Albee
April 24th, 2008, 03:51 PM
Real question: Concerning Boomer and Cavil... we're all assuming it's his idea, right? He's Model #1, he's making the public decisions. What if Boomer's running the show? I find it rather difficult to believe Cavil could seduce Boomer, or even find some way to require her services (the way he did with Ellen) - so why could this not go the other way? Couldn't Boomer have the agenda, wanting to see the religious Cylons gone? She has been rather disillusioned by the humans, and perhaps that's unhinged her more than we'd previously thought.

Not something I had considered before ...but seriously liking your suggestion!

Skydiver
April 24th, 2008, 06:08 PM
I think the writers have set up Lee to be the final cylon as he has all of a sudden decided to be a politician, getting himself into a position of power and in te last episode he cliamed he didn;t know why he was changing career......it just reminds me of Leoben claiming that Adama was a cyclon - we all though he meant the admiral at the time but now.....
yeah, but lee is in the photo, and RDM has said anyone in the photo that's not already outed as a cylon isn't

Night Marshal
April 25th, 2008, 01:22 AM
yeah, but lee is in the photo, and RDM has said anyone in the photo that's not already outed as a cylon isn't

He could be lying. Its hardly uncommon in TV anymore and Ron Moore has said in the past how mad he was about the cliffhanger at the end of season two getting out. And honestly this is the Cliffhanger that could make or break the show.

The theory I like the best is there is one Cylon in the picture that you might be over looking. The one that lives in Baltars head. I can see Ron Moore having had hid the last Cylon in plan sight since the Mini. This would also resolve the Mystic and real world elements of the show that seem very much at odds.

I think there might be a reason why Ron Moore hasn't recorded the Podcast. Those podcast are what are going to go out with the DVD's and if he's putting out miss information he would have to record them again. And most likely be a cold day in heck before that happens with his work load. If your going to put out miss information like you did last season with starbuck your going to do it in print, and web articles that no one is going to care about in a few mouths. I don't think Moore wants to do that kind of tight rope walking he had to do in Malstorm last year. Simple solution don't record them at all and get your well thought out press do the work for you.

Major Fischer
April 25th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I think there might be a reason why Ron Moore hasn't recorded the Podcast. Those podcast are what are going to go out with the DVD's and if he's putting out miss information he would have to record them again. And most likely be a cold day in heck before that happens with his work load. If your going to put out miss information like you did last season with starbuck your going to do it in print, and web articles that no one is going to care about in a few mouths. I don't think Moore wants to do that kind of tight rope walking he had to do in Malstorm last year. Simple solution don't record them at all and get your well thought out press do the work for you.

The Podcasts have been recorded and sent to skiffy, they're having technical issues. You can see it discussed on RDM's blog.

Back40
April 26th, 2008, 09:35 AM
My vote is for Zack Adama to be the final Cylon. Fits with Leobhan's comment to President Roslin that "Adama is a Cylon", and fits with the idea I have had since the end of Season 3 that the final reveal would not be someone we've seen (other than in flashbacks), but still someone we know as a character. Then Lee's comment after Starbuck returned about "what if it were Zack that got off that ship, would it make any difference, would knowing he was a Cylon change how we feel about him" made me think a bit more.....

Matt G
April 26th, 2008, 04:01 PM
1. "We're not evil", we've just got Tigh as a de facto leader!' Callie getting spaced had the frackhead's name all over it.

2. It's not like the Cylons are much of a threat to the Colonials anymore, they're beating the cack out of each other!

3. Kara doesn't know where she's going baby...lay back enjoy the ride...

4. Lee bugging Roslin in the quorum, no issues here.

5. Zack Adama as the final Cylon. I don't buy that idea. Having Tigh, a vet of the first Cylon war be a skinjob(when they supposedly weren't around) is one thing. Neither of the younger Adamas can be Cylons though, their Dad's known them all their lives!

CellarDwellar
April 27th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Spoiler tag due to cross-reference with later episodes.

Tory killed Callie and stole their baby.

Episode later, nothing on that whole situation done at all; how would Chief have reacted if he knew? And more so, how did Tory pull off getting the baby back to Chief to begin with?

Silly writers.

And I agree with previous statements; there was no lead up to her cracking, it was like she randomly decided she was going to go nuts and that was the end of that.

LoneStar1836
April 27th, 2008, 10:48 AM
Spoiler tag due to cross-reference with later episodes.

Tory killed Callie and stole their baby.

Episode later, nothing on that whole situation done at all; how would Chief have reacted if he knew? And more so, how did Tory pull off getting the baby back to Chief to begin with?

Silly writers.

And I agree with previous statements; there was no lead up to her cracking, it was like she randomly decided she was going to go nuts and that was the end of that.They were already having marital problems in previous episodes going back to last season. I can believe that she could possibly reach the point that she did without having to see the build-up laid out in front of me.

As to the next episode and the baby....Tory could have made up any kind of story about finding the baby...outside the launch tube or somewhere else. She could have even brought the baby back to their quarters and have found Tyrol still unconscious and have put him back and Tyrol might have never known he was gone. I think that's just one of those details that the writers are just leaving up to the viewer to ponder rather than giving a definitive answer at this point.

It's like we have to wonder about how they found out that Cally was actually dead. Sure she went bonkers and whacked the Chief but you wouldn't just jump to the next conclusion that she had gone and killed herself when she couldn't be found. Did Tory tell someone what she had witnessed? Did Cally go splat on some Viper's windshield? Sure they would have had the activation of the launch tube doors recorded, but unless they have cameras that watch those (which obviously they don't or it would have recorded the confrontation with Tory), they don't know that she spaced herself for sure...because how can you space yourself when Chief's key is outside the airlock. That has to raise some questions. :S What did Tory do with the key? etc. etc.

daniel9
April 28th, 2008, 12:52 PM
podcast is up

nckzvnbr
May 10th, 2008, 05:49 PM
RDM didn't even know the episode name. What is up with that? See Podcast for this episode.

LordAnubis82
September 25th, 2008, 11:38 AM
death of Cally - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Angela V
October 22nd, 2008, 08:20 PM
Holy Frak! I guess good thing about seeing the show a few months later is that I stay away from spoilers. Had NO idea Callie was going to get killed off. I fell for Tory's act. So was in shock when it happened. I liked Callie and wish all ill will towards Tory.

Has Starbuck EVER been sane?!? She's so messed in the head I'm surprised anyone takes her seriously.

Celesto
November 3rd, 2008, 02:24 PM
WOW what a great episode.
You know I knew that Cally was going to die. But I thought she was going to do herself in. Man was I surprised.

Damn yeah! Wanna to continue watchiiiiing...long time till Jan.

Gamma626
September 6th, 2010, 01:21 PM
That's frakking stupid. Callie was in my top 3 characters and some random character comes in and kills her off? BS! I don't even want to continue damn watching!

TBA
September 6th, 2010, 02:21 PM
Hmm, who are your other favourite characters?

Anyway, the show improves again with the mid-season finale, and especially after that with the Mutiny Arc, which is just epic.

Gamma626
September 6th, 2010, 02:26 PM
Oh trust me. I'll finish. Just to see Tori get hers.

I like

Lee
Athena
Callie
Starbuck
Chief.


But each season that changes.

TBA
September 7th, 2010, 10:16 AM
No love for Romo? :(

And yeah, Tori definately gets hers :P

Gamma626
September 7th, 2010, 11:03 AM
Well, so far he's only been in four episodes.

However, the actor that plays him is AMAZING.

Morgania
November 2nd, 2010, 09:48 PM
However, the actor that plays him is AMAZING.

I know him better as 'Badger' in Firefly.

the fifth man
January 2nd, 2011, 07:51 PM
Just watched this one tonight with my wife. She was pretty shocked with that ending. I told her, with this being the final season, anything can happen.