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View Full Version : Sangraal vs. super-Adria ? [SUPERMASSIVE AOT SPOILERS]



SoulReaver
April 7th, 2008, 09:41 AM
by "super-Adria" I mean Adria after ascension and before she was partially depowered by the Ark of Truth


what would've been the effect of the Sangraal on uber-Adria ?

in other words would a powerful-enough ascended being resist or even be impervious to its effects (Adria said she would become some sort of all-powerful god if she wiped out the ancients and if that's true then I'd expect a god to at least be unaffected by an electronic gadget), or does the device work the same regardless of the ascended's power ?
(and if it's the latter, couldn't SG have simply assembled another Sangraal before heading for Ori country ?)

g.o.d
April 7th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Adria is stupid, so Sangreal will destroy her as it destroyed the Ori.

Fenrir Foxz
April 7th, 2008, 09:57 AM
Well the Sangraal works by cancelling out ascended beings, so I would think how powerful Adria was wouldn't have made a difference...

Jeffala
April 7th, 2008, 10:20 AM
Agreed. Sangraal v. Adria == "neutralized" Adria.

Mitchell82
April 7th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Well the Sangraal works by cancelling out ascended beings, so I would think how powerful Adria was wouldn't have made a difference...

I agree. I don't think she could have survived it no matter how powerful she is/was.

g.o.d
April 7th, 2008, 11:43 AM
I believe she would probably have bigger chance to discover something wrong is down there and she will be able to destroy it. But if she won't, she'll die. She's still an energy being no matter how powerfull she is.

Sauron18
April 7th, 2008, 02:59 PM
I believe she would probably have bigger chance to discover something wrong is down there and she will be able to destroy it. But if she won't, she'll die. She's still an energy being no matter how powerfull she is.

Actually, I think she'd have a lesser chance. See, although she's powerful, she's still a lone ascended being, limited by both space and time. So yeah, she can perceive a lot, but only about the place where she's at.

The Ori, however, being many ascended beings could likely spread out and still be able to communicate with one another, increasing their presence throughout the galaxy. Something tells me, though, that they tended to remain huddled up in Celestis rather than bother with overlooking their other planets.

g.o.d
April 8th, 2008, 07:37 AM
The Ori, however, being many ascended beings could likely spread out and still be able to communicate with one another, increasing their presence throughout the galaxy. Something tells me, though, that they tended to remain huddled up in Celestis rather than bother with overlooking their other planets.

I agree. That's why they were destroyed

Toast King
April 8th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Actually, I think she'd have a lesser chance. See, although she's powerful, she's still a lone ascended being, limited by both space and time. So yeah, she can perceive a lot, but only about the place where she's at.

The Ori, however, being many ascended beings could likely spread out and still be able to communicate with one another, increasing their presence throughout the galaxy. Something tells me, though, that they tended to remain huddled up in Celestis rather than bother with overlooking their other planets.


I agree. That's why they were destroyed


I tend to agree with that as well. The Ori didn't see humans as a threat to them. And I suppose they believed sending Adria after the sangraal and capturing and "turning" Daniel (if you there informed about that) was enough to put a damper in the plans of the humans to use the Sangraal against them. Which was their ultimate undoing in the end.

Mitchell82
April 8th, 2008, 09:40 AM
Actually, I think she'd have a lesser chance. See, although she's powerful, she's still a lone ascended being, limited by both space and time. So yeah, she can perceive a lot, but only about the place where she's at.

The Ori, however, being many ascended beings could likely spread out and still be able to communicate with one another, increasing their presence throughout the galaxy. Something tells me, though, that they tended to remain huddled up in Celestis rather than bother with overlooking their other planets.
Agreed. They thought they were invincible and that arrogance led to their destruction.

g.o.d
April 8th, 2008, 09:52 AM
Agreed. They thought they were invincible and that arrogance led to their destruction.

like most of powerful races in SG (Tollan, Goa'uld, Ancients in PG)

Mitchell82
April 8th, 2008, 05:06 PM
like most of powerful races in SG (Tollan, Goa'uld, Ancients in PG)

The Tollan were arrogant to a point but that's not what led to their doom.

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 02:50 AM
so there's a consensus - everyone agrees that Merlin's toy would've worked on Adria as well
which admitedly sounds the most likely, so I guess I'll concur with the consensus

damn...guess we've got ourselves another plot hole/device then - add 1 more to the list :/

Sauron18
April 9th, 2008, 03:51 AM
Actually, I forgot about the second part of the topic, and I feel that there is no plot hole.

Sg-1 did not know how to build a Sangraal. Only Merlin had that knowlege, which was lost when he died.

Vala & Mitchell were told how to assemble the last few parts, but as for actually building the whole thing and assembling most of it, that was all Merlin and it's all gone.

Even if they had another Sangraal they would still only succeed in killing Adria and the followers would still be there, so the Ark of Truth would've still been essential. Still, they couldn't have rebuilt the Sangraal.

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 04:08 AM
didn't SG1 have the blueprints for the sangraal ? (even back in Camelot Kvasir said he'd studied part of them. plus now they have the asgard core and we know the asgards could assemble even ancient tech. so they should've been able to make another of those gadgets


and the followers, meh they would've been dealt with - one ship at a time ^_^

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 9th, 2008, 06:33 AM
I think the Sangraal would kill her regardless of how much power she accumulated, she would have to destroy it before it destroys her if she wanted to survive. Anyway, I dont think we will see another Sangraal again... only Merlin knew how to create it and his consciousness ended in Daniel in order to use the device against the Ori as he had long planned. Sure Kvasir might have studied it but studying and understanding are two different things. Example, Carter studied the plans for the Ori satellite over that world in season 9... doesnt mean she knew how to make it as she didnt know how it generated the power necessary to shield as well as fire the device.

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 06:56 AM
actually Kvasir figured it out soon enough (even though he only had part of the specs)

well at least this solves the Ascended Being vs Q debate - Q wins, hands down ^_^

Toast King
April 9th, 2008, 08:43 AM
actually Kvasir figured it out soon enough (even though he only had part of the specs)

well at least this solves the Ascended Being vs Q debate - Q wins, hands down ^_^

Q wins because he is omnipotent and knows everything all the time. Acended beigns have more knowledge but the universe is still infinite to them. So they can only keep track of stuff where they are.

Mitchell82
April 9th, 2008, 09:57 AM
didn't SG1 have the blueprints for the sangraal ? (even back in Camelot Kvasir said he'd studied part of them. plus now they have the asgard core and we know the asgards could assemble even ancient tech. so they should've been able to make another of those gadgets


and the followers, meh they would've been dealt with - one ship at a time ^_^
No he only knew what Merlins device said the Sangreal would do. We never had bluprints of it till Daniel built it.

Mitchell82
April 9th, 2008, 09:57 AM
Actually, I forgot about the second part of the topic, and I feel that there is no plot hole.

Sg-1 did not know how to build a Sangraal. Only Merlin had that knowlege, which was lost when he died.

Vala & Mitchell were told how to assemble the last few parts, but as for actually building the whole thing and assembling most of it, that was all Merlin and it's all gone.

Even if they had another Sangraal they would still only succeed in killing Adria and the followers would still be there, so the Ark of Truth would've still been essential. Still, they couldn't have rebuilt the Sangraal.
Agreed.

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 10:22 AM
No he only knew what Merlins device said the Sangreal would do. We never had bluprints of it till Daniel built it.Kvasir> "there was enough data for us to surmise what this so called anti-ori weapon might be"
Carter> "really ? I wasn't able to make heads or tails of it"
Kvasir> "[techno babble about energy transfer & zpms]"

so the data was the specs for that device. Daniel & Carter weren't able to retrieve all of the data before power ran out so the asgards only had part of it to go on

g.o.d
April 9th, 2008, 10:49 AM
Kvasir> "there was enough data for us to surmise what this so called anti-ori weapon might be"
Carter> "really ? I wasn't able to make heads or tails of it"
Kvasir> "[techno babble about energy transfer & zpms]"

so the data was the specs for that device. Daniel & Carter weren't able to retrieve all of the data before power ran out so the asgards only had part of it to go on

one thing is to know how certain things work, but another thing is to know how to build it. Look, I know how A-bomb work, but I don't know how to build it.

If Asgard would have known how to build it, they could have built it;)

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 11:26 AM
one thing is to know how certain things work, but another thing is to know how to build it. Look, I know how A-bomb work, but I don't know how to build it.

If Asgard would have known how to build it, they could have built it;)well if you know *exactly* how it works then you're damn close to being able to build one, thing is you'd still need the appropriate tools, raw materials & a heck of a lot of patience (edit> also would you recognize an A-bomb if you saw its technical specs & equations instead of just a layman's verbal description ? ^_^)
the asgard know how to build at least some ancient tech (ARWs) but this time they didn't have the complete specs for Merlin's toy so they'd have had trouble assembling one anyway :/

Mitchell82
April 9th, 2008, 12:16 PM
one thing is to know how certain things work, but another thing is to know how to build it. Look, I know how A-bomb work, but I don't know how to build it.

If Asgard would have known how to build it, they could have built it;)
Very well put. Not all of us are Mckay.;)

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 10th, 2008, 02:47 AM
Well from the quote, the Asgard only knew enough to know its function, not its design details. They didnt even have the artifact when Kvasir made his conclusion so its debateable if th Asgard could even make it.

Mitchell82
April 10th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Well from the quote, the Asgard only knew enough to know its function, not its design details. They didnt even have the artifact when Kvasir made his conclusion so its debateable if th Asgard could even make it.

Exactly.

SoulReaver
April 11th, 2008, 02:15 AM
Well from the quote, the Asgard only knew enough to know its function, not its design details. They didnt even have the artifact when Kvasir made his conclusion so its debateable if th Asgard could even make it.depends if Kvasir was looking at a set of equations or just a layman's description of the thing
given the quote I'd opt for the former

Sauron18
April 11th, 2008, 11:55 AM
This brings to mind the question about why Asgard tech can't help them (SGA) build ZPM's. They've got depleted ones (and even fully working ones), and they've got the database, so is there something else that they're missing?

If you can't make a ZPM with the thing itself next to you, then I strongly doubt they'd be able to make a Sangraal, which is essentially a ZPM and then som, without the device close to them....