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GateWorld
October 30th, 2006, 06:18 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4011.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">HE THAT BELIEVETH IN ME</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 401</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
As Kara miraculously returns to Galactica with the promise of directions to Earth, suspicion is cast on her identity. Baltar considers his new future when he is introduced to a group of people who practically worship him.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Pharaoh Atem
April 4th, 2008, 08:03 PM
this was amazing start for the last season.

loved the space battle poor pixis and the sam eye thing was freaky.

kara is defenlty different but hopefully we will find out what happen to her ...if it's even the real kara.


Yup, but doesn't mean they don't have hidden programming. Until we know what exactly is different about them, we can speculate on things that might be similar. They're machines, so they have to be programmed in some way or the other.

i just have hopes that the final 5 are going to be good .

Trek_Girl42
April 4th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Woohoo! Official thread!

I love this show more than ever. Really. I didn't think my love could grow any greater, but it did.

And poor Pixis. Just the first of what will be many doomed ships this season.....

Pharaoh Atem
April 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Woohoo! Official thread!

I love this show more than ever. Really. I didn't think my love could grow any greater, but it did.

And poor Pixis. Just the first of what will be many doomed ships this season.....

600 + people dead in a less then 20 mins .....

Trek_Girl42
April 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM
600 + people dead in a less then 20 mins .....
Just knew that was coming.....setting the tone for the rest of the series.

I'm betting a known character will be killed off in the next two weeks. Those Battlestar writers can't resist going that long into a season without taking someone out!

the fifth man
April 4th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Great way to start the season. I'm about to watch it again on TV right now.

daniel9
April 4th, 2008, 08:13 PM
and baltar enters heaven

pynapl
April 4th, 2008, 08:16 PM
this was amazing start for the last season.

loved the space battle poor pixis and the sam eye thing was freaky.

kara is defenlty different but hopefully we will find out what happen to her ...if it's even the real kara.



i just have hopes that the final 5 are going to be good .

Yeah, "the sam eye thing was freaky" but for some reason that was my favorite part! :cool:

And I agree, as of now, I still find myself looking at the final five as though they are good. Which is why I felt sorry for Sam at Kara's off-handed remark that if he were a cylon, she would shoot him. Man, what a weight they've got on their shoulders!!

Jeffala
April 4th, 2008, 08:21 PM
I'm betting a known character will be killed off in the next two weeks. Those Battlestar writers can't resist going that long into a season without taking someone out!

One possible spoiler says that Cally # (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Ties_That_Bind#Notes) will die.

Briangate78
April 4th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Great Episode overall. I think the Baltar story-line kinda dragged and was the only slow part of the episode. The ep began strong and ended strong. It was a solid good opener, but not the best Season premiere, imo.

wiseowl777
April 4th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Yeah, "the sam eye thing was freaky" but for some reason that was my favorite part! :cool:

And I agree, as of now, I still find myself looking at the final five as though they are good. Which is why I felt sorry for Sam at Kara's off-handed remark that if he were a cylon, she would shoot him. Man, what a weight they've got on their shoulders!!

that part was really creepy... so they really have that sensor thingys in their heads... is that wat the raiders have always been scanning for the majority of the time? or was it an in built (fight/flight mechanism) that activated in sam to save himself. bc cylons Can kill each other as we saw when the 1 six was excuted.

Jeffala
April 4th, 2008, 08:23 PM
When Thrace is being debriefed/interrogated by Roslin and the Adamas, she says "yellow moon and star". Shouldn't that be "yellow star and moon"?

Trek_Girl42
April 4th, 2008, 08:23 PM
*fingers in ears* I don't want to know what you know Jeffala! :P I'm not even tempted to click on the spoiler tags this year. :D

Jeffala
April 4th, 2008, 08:24 PM
*fingers in ears* I don't want to know what you know Jeffala! :P I'm not even tempted to click on the spoiler tags this year. :D

I am addicted to spoilers! They don't ruin the show for me, they make me anticipate it even more. I try to restrain myself, though, for the sake of others. :p

P-90_177
April 4th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Yeah, "the sam eye thing was freaky" but for some reason that was my favorite part! :cool:

And I agree, as of now, I still find myself looking at the final five as though they are good. Which is why I felt sorry for Sam at Kara's off-handed remark that if he were a cylon, she would shoot him. Man, what a weight they've got on their shoulders!!

Ok I haven't seen the episode yet so I don't really know the proper context but still isn't that a bit hypocritical seeing as she's ok with Athena being a Cylon...............granted she tried shooting her but that's by the by.

Trek_Girl42
April 4th, 2008, 08:29 PM
I am addicted to spoilers! They don't ruin the show for me, they make me anticipate it even more. I try to restrain myself, though, for the sake of others. :p
I despise them. :D Season two aired six months late here, and I got spoiled on the one year later and couple other things by some frakwit in an SG-1 thread.....I've hated spoilers with a passion since then. :P


P-90_177, hypocritical, yes. But that's just part of who Starbuck is. She's inconsistent (well, she's consistent at being inconsistent) and passionate in her anger which in anyone inevitably leads to hypocrisy.

Pandora's_Box
April 4th, 2008, 08:44 PM
I've gotta say that while I thoroughly enjoyed this episode (it was a very solid epi), it wasn't my favourite and not the best season premiere as Briangate mentioned.

Few things I liked:

Baltar and Six: I have always loved these two characters. The miniseries introduced these amazingly complex characters and then season one just took them above and beyond what I could have ever expected from a television show. Even a sci-fi tv show.
Spoiler for speculation (not based on spoilers):
I've been toying with the idea that the Six in his head is actually the voice of the Cylon God. Afterall, it's been established that the polytheistic religion of the humans and its Gods has some basis in fact (Tomb of Athena anyone?) so why not the Cylon God? I wouldn't put it past this show to pull that off.
On top of that, it seems like no matter what Baltar goes through, no matter what hardships or hells he's put through, in the end he'll always be about Gaius Baltar. On any other show and with any other actor this would come off as one-note but not here.

Kara: She's back but is she a cylon? If she's not then where did she get the new Viper? How did she find Earth? Where is this 'feeling' coming from? So many questions!! I love it!

Things I didn't:

Laura Roslin: Something about her reactions to Kara just annoyed me. We;re talking about the woman who asked Kara to retrieve the Arrow of Apollo of an occupied, post-nuclear apocolypse Caprica so that she could take it to the Tomb of Athena of Kobol and find the mythical planet Earth. All of which she'd gotten from scriptures and visions induced by Chamalla. Now she's refusing to believe in the possibility that Kara may have actually found Earth. I understand that the curcumstances are suspect and that Laura thinks she knows the way, but to just summarily dismiss the idea and label her a Cylon? I don't know. Maybe I'll change my mind later.


Overall though, I can't say I was dissapointed. Great beginning to what is sadly the last season of one of the best sci-fi shows, or rather one of the best shows of any genre period.

Can we finally get some mainstream recognition this season, please? James Callis and Tricia Helfer deserve Emmy's. This show deserves Emmy's. Heck...just give one to everybody on the show. The acting and writing is better than on 90% of the shows that usually get the awards.

Trek_Girl42
April 4th, 2008, 08:50 PM
Laura Roslin: Something about her reactions to Kara just annoyed me. We;re talking about the woman who asked Kara to retrieve the Arrow of Apollo of an occupied, post-nuclear apocolypse Caprica so that she could take it to the Tomb of Athena of Kobol and find the mythical planet Earth. All of which she'd gotten from scriptures and visions induced by Chamalla. Now she's refusing to believe in the possibility that Kara may have actually found Earth. I understand that the curcumstances are suspect and that Laura thinks she knows the way, but to just summarily dismiss the idea and label her a Cylon? I don't know. Maybe I'll change my mind later. The problem is that this concerns the safety of the entire fleet, and Roslin isn't going to put the fate of the entire human race in the hands of a woman who, from her point of view, is most logically a cylon. Roslin has always acted in the concern of the fleet surviving even if it meant she had to break with some of her principles/going back on promises, crossing lines she swore she wouldn't. I think this is just another case of her doing the harsh thing in order for the fleet to survive because *she* believes it's the safest option. Sending Kara to get the arrow didn't present the same level of risk that this does.

So I'd have had a problem if she didn't accuse Kara of being a cylon. That would have been out of character.

But it all comes down to the fact that she simply can't take the risk that Starbuck is a cylon, because if she gambles and loses, the human race dies. Erring on the side of caution is preferable.

Pandora's_Box
April 4th, 2008, 08:58 PM
The problem is that this concerns the safety of the entire fleet, and Roslin isn't going to put the fate of the entire human race in the hands of a woman who, from her point of view, is most logically a cylon. Roslin has always acted in the concern of the fleet surviving even if it meant she had to break with some of her principles/going back on promises, crossing lines she swore she wouldn't. I think this is just another case of her doing the harsh thing in order for the fleet to survive because *she* believes it's the safest option. Sending Kara to get the arrow didn't present the same level of risk that this does.

So I'd have had a problem if she didn't accuse Kara of being a cylon. That would have been out of character.

But it all comes down to the fact that she simply can't take the risk that Starbuck is a cylon, because if she gambles and loses, the human race dies. Erring on the side of caution is preferable.

If Kara were a Cylon then this would mean that she'd been one the whole time as has been stated on the show.
Logically then, she was a Cylon when Roslin sent her for the Arrow. Couldn't this then have all been an elaborate trap set up by the Cylons to find Earth? Wouldn't humanity be doomed then anyway and following where the path that started with the Arrow leads just means they're leading the Cylons right to the thirteenth colony?

Pandora's_Box
April 4th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I have to correct what I said earlier about Baltar always being about his own needs and wants despite everything he's gone through.

It's important to note that he doesn't seem to do that in this episode. He is willing to trade his life for that of the young boy. Now, whether he does this as a ploy to gain more standing and trust from these peope or whether he really truly believes that there is a God listening and ready to make the trade, remains to be seen.

I for one am not so certain that Baltar has become such a devout believer yet. I don't even know if I believe he's truly capable of it, but we'll see.

chris777
April 4th, 2008, 09:31 PM
So much for "the plan"

well if you trust the script of this episode one must assume that the final 1 is on board Galactica based on caprica 6's conversation with Laura.
Which also brings up the question why did she not recognize Tigh , unless the "trigger" made them "detectable" so to speak, and Yes it is possible that she only detects the 4 we know, given I am not entirely convinced the writers have even decided on the final one.

Based on the promo for episode 2 it is safe to assume That Cavil is attempting to determine why the raiders caused the cylon fleet to retreat by lobotomizing them. Which brings up a gripe While Iwas impressed with the Fx on the opening scene, and it was quite good, cinematic in fact, the whole "nick of time" save has been pulled off too many times in this show, its getting a bit unbelievable, I understand that it was a nesessity with the setection of anders, and quite likely the writers could not come up with another save, but it is becoming overused, what is this like the 4th of 5th time this sort of save has been pulled off?


As for characterization all the characters flip flop around in their views and opinions.
Laura trust starbuck (with the arrow) she doesnt trust her.
Lee doesn't trust athena(thinking she's boomer) but trust starbuck
trusted Laura, but now trust starbuck
Adama trusted starbuck , now does not
and Starbuck ahh Starbuck Well she trust Athena, but would shoot sam if she found out he was a cylon.
But it is starbuck and she is about as stable as a whirlpool (the eye lol)
it's just strange, I assume its different writers coming in not having a nandle on the characters, but its kind of annoying.
It reminds me of Lees speech in Baltars trial, I know people are hypocrites, but it just seems sort of ridiculous with the pendulum shifting views these people seem to have.

Pretty good overall though.

wilsan
April 4th, 2008, 10:14 PM
The first thing I noticed at the begining of the show was how clean Starbuck's viper was in the teaser before the opening credits. This accually raised a lot of questions, if Starbuck is not a Cylon then how did she get back to the fleet in a new bird? And what's with the time discrepance? These sort of things seem contradictory.

monkey_man132
April 4th, 2008, 10:45 PM
I really enjoyed this episode it was so great man In sci fi shows theres always that cheesy storyline of someone returning from the dead but they are not sure wether its really him/her but this was done good, of course :)

I'm not really a big fan as in I haven't seen many episodes, but I have watches mini series, razor, many episodes here and theres and most of season 3 and I am really liking it!!!

kick ass space battle I love the civilian ships in the heat of it that was so cool the missiles flying and Adama saying "we can take the hits" and for vipers to protect civilian ships, man that was awesome.

third edit :D just forgot to add i friggin jumped when Adama was shot in the face, took me a couple seconds to cool down and then i started thinking it wasn't a real sequence, pheeewwww!!!!

Trek_Girl42
April 4th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Anyone know if we'll be getting the podcasts again this season? I really need my RDM commentary fix..... ;)

hoof
April 5th, 2008, 12:27 AM
Good episode, but there are some obvious questions the characters should be asking:

1) If Kara is a trap intended to get the fleet killed, then why would the Cylons, who obviously know they have the fleet cornered, let them go? Adama and Roslyn should realize that something else is going on and that Kara is not part of the "regular" cylon plan, at least not if the plan was to destroy the fleet. They had their chance and they chose not to finish the humans (or at least most of them). Thus it seems illogical that they'd use Kara to engineer the fleet's demise. That leads to the fairly obvious conclusion that Kara must be part of either someone else's plan, or the Cylons don't (yet) want the humans dead.

2) If Kara is a remake (e.g. not the original body), then her fingers are likely not broken from her childhood. If whoever engineered her return provided a clean & new Viper, then they likely didn't re-break her fingers. Thus, if they check her hands for prior breaks and they don't find any, she's a copy. Of course, few people know about her hands, except for her hubby, who's worried about his own background right know.

3) If this really was Kara, I doubt she'd be so dumb as to think Adama would listen to her if she kills the president. It's obvious that if she executes the president, everyone will think she's a cylon who was programmed to do that, and thus can't be trusted (it would be like trusting Boomer right after she shot Adama). Thus, why would she go after the president? Why wouldn't she even think that going after the president would convince everyone that she's a threat?

Frankly, regardless of what they think of Kara, they really should be asking themselves why the Cylons pulled back. In some ways Kara is blinding them to the much more important question of trying to ascertain why the Cylons would choose not to finish them. Obviously something changed mid-battle, obviously something convinced them to change course.

On another note, I do belive this is the first time ever in the series where Gaius actually cared about someone else. Gaius actually wanted the boy to live and felt that if he could die to save the kid, he'd be willing to do it. Considering there was no obvious payback for faking it (esp. when he's about to have his throat slit), I think it's genuine. So have we seen the beginnings of a new Gaius Baltar?

Good episode, but like I expected, it's purpose is to set a bunch of balls rolling, balls that will take many episodes to resolve.

Detox
April 5th, 2008, 12:39 AM
The problem is that this concerns the safety of the entire fleet, and Roslin isn't going to put the fate of the entire human race in the hands of a woman who, from her point of view, is most logically a cylon. Roslin has always acted in the concern of the fleet surviving even if it meant she had to break with some of her principles/going back on promises, crossing lines she swore she wouldn't. I think this is just another case of her doing the harsh thing in order for the fleet to survive because *she* believes it's the safest option. Sending Kara to get the arrow didn't present the same level of risk that this does.

So I'd have had a problem if she didn't accuse Kara of being a cylon. That would have been out of character.

But it all comes down to the fact that she simply can't take the risk that Starbuck is a cylon, because if she gambles and loses, the human race dies. Erring on the side of caution is preferable.

But the thing is, the human race WAS about to die. At the start of the episode, they would've been wiped out if it wasn't for the Cylons retreating.

Her theory is that the Cylons planted Kara and then retreated when Galactica found her. But that makes no sense. If they had the chance to destroy them, but why didn't. Why would they go through the trouble and risks of scheming something, when they had the chance to end it right then and there?

So logically speaking, there would be no logical reason for Kara to be a Cylon plan to destroy the fleet. And Roslin's an idiot for assuming there would.

wiseowl777
April 5th, 2008, 01:28 AM
i dont read spoilers, these all came from my fraked up little head, so no worries :)

theres a huge underlying story here that we probably know nothing abt. my opinion:
1. kara flips over the gun to roslin and says see, my choice (kinda like athena did on kobol)
2. perhaps the cylons were looking for (even though they arnt supposed 2) any signs of the other 5 and thats why they got giddy and retreated (kinda like an 0 we're in, why bother fighting?)
3. kara's not a cylon. wayy to obvious for moore. plus if it was to be a cylon ploy, giving her a new viper would be way to ridiculous of a mistake to make. it has some different meaning... what exactly i have no idea
4. they can not trust kara, espically given the cirumstances of knowing there are still (to them 5 other cylons). -for teh stargate fans, its like wat vala said to the "prior" jackson, abt no listening bc even if they have the "slighest inkling of a doubt it could lead to the end" of the human race
5. and my bigger theory.... i no longer think that the "leader" thats supposed to take us to the promised land is roslin anymore. these guys throw huge sweeping curve balls at us... i think, shes not going to make it till the end, and the leader that takes them there will only lead for a very short period of time, andd itll be the "i think i can make a bigger diff in gov. than by flying, lee adama" -

--- but does any1 have the exact lines that she said describing earth?... did she say yellow moon? and maybe i glanced too fast but those pictures she took of the moon and earth, didnt "earth" look a little reder than usual, or was it my tv?

6. 0 yeah and #6... all of these "cylons" have at some point been sleeping with a main character human... only couple
human cylon
starbuck-------sam
calley---------cheif
helo--------athena
baltar---------6 and diana
ellen---------saul
ellen----------caval
perhaps??
lee-----------dualla?


as for the:
sam-----tori
boomer----cheif
-things.... well u frakin got me!?

-just as long as its not billy the undead cylon, ill be happy :)

AutumnDream
April 5th, 2008, 01:39 AM
So much for "the plan"As for characterization all the characters flip flop around in their views and opinions.
Laura trust starbuck (with the arrow) she doesnt trust her.
Lee doesn't trust athena(thinking she's boomer) but trust starbuck
trusted Laura, but now trust starbuck
Adama trusted starbuck , now does not
and Starbuck ahh Starbuck Well she trust Athena, but would shoot sam if she found out he was a cylon.
But it is starbuck and she is about as stable as a whirlpool (the eye lol)
it's just strange, I assume its different writers coming in not having a nandle on the characters, but its kind of annoying.
It reminds me of Lees speech in Baltars trial, I know people are hypocrites, but it just seems sort of ridiculous with the pendulum shifting views these people seem to have.

Pretty good overall though.

Uh, you don't find it reasonable that given recent circumstances Laura and Adama no longer trust Kara? Are you serious bro? You're criticizing the writers for not making the characters behave as if Maelstrom - Crossroads hadn't happened?

bluestrike
April 5th, 2008, 02:34 AM
It was a really strong opening episode. I felt it only dragged with the Baltar storyline. His character has grown tired at this point.

Integrabyte
April 5th, 2008, 02:56 AM
The BSG syndrome follows in S4 too: more NOISE than BANG. If Gaius does not sleep with someone BSG cannot move on...

P-90_177
April 5th, 2008, 03:23 AM
that was a truly great season opener. best yet in my opinion. so much info and so much to take in. i feel really sorry for starbuck. she seems to be really sincere in her beiefs and she definately is confused about the situation. Shame about the pixis too........good way to start the season though. with a blood bath.

Esquin
April 5th, 2008, 03:27 AM
Integrabyte thats kind harsh.

But seriously everyone the thing about BSG is that the characters are so 3d. You can't just look at their histories and guess what they'll do, can you do that with people in your own life? Will they always make the same decision twice or will 3 years change that.

It's been years since Laura sent Kara back to Caprica for the arrow, a lot has changed this then. Not the least of which being that Kara exploded. Vision are one thing, coming back from the dead is an entierly different matter. They saw her ship disintegrate, so I find it amazing that she's not in the damn brig. Especially consdiering that the colonials know damn well that regardless of if it makes sense as a Cylon plan Cylons are still the only things that come back from the dead.

Pharaoh Atem
April 5th, 2008, 03:32 AM
survivor count 41,398 to 39,698

i do think sam inability to shot the raider was due to his cylon programing

Esquin
April 5th, 2008, 03:39 AM
I think it was him being a scared little nugget and already totally freaking out. Normal human response really, he forgot to hit the weapons free button. Anyone could of done it.

turtlesstartedit
April 5th, 2008, 04:05 AM
Did anyone notice...

That some of four "new" cyclons talked to Boomer and she didn't seem to notice anything about them? If the Chief is really a Cylon, that means there was a little Cylon-on-Cylon action during season 1 when the Chief and Boomer were hot and heavy for each other. It also brings a new sense of humor to the episode when the Chief is confiding in the (at that time unrevealed Cylon) Cavil character and Cavil states something like, "I know you're not a Cylon, because I am and I haven't seen you at any of our meetings."

That when the #6 that is in Baltar's head appeared this time, no "Cylon music" preceded her appearance? Every time he had a vision of her, there was no music. Oversight on the producers' parts, or does it mean something? (I kinda miss the music, it was a little creepy.)

DigiFluid
April 5th, 2008, 04:05 AM
It was a really strong opening episode. I felt it only dragged with the Baltar storyline. His character has grown tired at this point.

I completely disagree, right from the beginning I've found Baltar to be (by far) the most compelling character on the show. Personally, I can't wait to see how his new role figures into the show's final endgame.

My guess: through pursuit of personal interests and no particular malice, he was responsible for the genocide of mankind; in some twisted duality, in pursuing his own interests with no particular malice, he will save the remainder of humanity before the end.

Sci-Fi
April 5th, 2008, 04:13 AM
Great episode, writing to going back to the way it was back in S1. Still wonder why the writers keep letting Baltar get off relatively clean and alive at every turn. The God vs Gods thing better pay off...seem like the writers are doing a replay of our own religious history...would be a lot more interesting if they arrived at Earth with their religion intact to set up a major conflict with whoever is there.

Shan Bruce Lee
April 5th, 2008, 04:39 AM
It was an ok episode. I still think this show would be 100x better without the emo, religion and "frak"

It was cool to see the Cylons actually succeed in destroying one of the fleet's ships for a change. It makes them a serious threat for a change.

BigGator5
April 5th, 2008, 05:24 AM
After watching "He That Believeth In Me," I have an idea on who the Fifth Cylon is:

I want to say Laura Roslin is the Fifth. I say this for a couple of reasons:

1) Just after they first enter the Ionian Nebula in Crossroads Part II, Laura clutch her head in pain. Much like the others where in pain over the music.

2) She was really quick to call Starbuck a Cylon trick.

3) Laura is a little too desperate to find out to find out if Starbuck is a Cylon, going so far as to ask Caprica Six.

4) She could have dismissed the music as an effect of the Chamalla.

5) Laura shared visons with the other two known Cylons on board.

Esquin
April 5th, 2008, 05:42 AM
I think Laura's role as dying leader pulls her from the running. She's suposed to be the dying leader who will take the humans to Earth. PRetty much implies she's Human herself. Plus it'd be a big cope out.

I also don't see her living past the middle of the season.

Then again.. "dying leader". I wonder jsut how bad Starbucks headaches are gonna get....

McSwift
April 5th, 2008, 05:45 AM
much Better Battle Scene Than Razor!!!!

hellrasinb
April 5th, 2008, 05:50 AM
Well I 'm not gonna dwell on who the 12th Cylon is since I've got a good idea as to who it is. Also if you recall the pod cast from season 3's Maelstrom Kara's ressurection and return has huge effect on the fleet and is also a part of the mythology of the series. So does Kara have an instinctive pulse to the
direction of Earth more than likely. Also remember than from this pint on in the remaining 19 episodes characters will fully embrace their true destinies.

If you remember the words that the Hybrid said to Kendra Shaw think about that for a second and consider wether he was referring to Kara or because of
how Cylons mix truth in lies he was really talking about Laura Roslin and that
Kara Thrace is the one who guides Humanity and the Cylon people to a new beginning. But then again I could be wrong about some of these things lol.

Astrofighter
April 5th, 2008, 05:53 AM
After watching "He That Believeth In Me," I have an idea on who the Fifth Cylon is:

I want to say Laura Roslin is the Fifth. I say this for a couple of reasons:

1) Just after they first enter the Ionian Nebula in Crossroads Part II, Laura clutch her head in pain. Much like the others where in pain over the music.

2) She was really quick to call Starbuck a Cylon trick.

3) Laura is a little too desperate to find out to find out if Starbuck is a Cylon, going so far as to ask Caprica Six.

4) She could have dismissed the music as an effect of the Chamalla.

5) Laura shared visons with the other two known Cylons on board.

Ditto, I have been thinking this since the end of season 3.

Someone made mention early that the cavil is lobotomizing raiders to figure out what happened....no....it consists of cutting the connections to and from, or simply destroying, the prefrontal cortex. These procedures often result in major personality changes and possible mental disabilities.

He wasnt giving them lobotomies to find any answers he was doing it so they would over ride their base program and attack the fleet even though the raiders all knew that the final 5 are in the fleet and as such they can't attack the fleet because there is a chance that they would kill the final 5 which is against their programming. That's what cavil is trying to do, by-pass that programming by lobotomizing them.

Jeffala
April 5th, 2008, 05:55 AM
So much for "the plan"

well if you trust the script of this episode one must assume that the final 1 is on board Galactica based on caprica 6's conversation with Laura.
Which also brings up the question why did she not recognize Tigh , unless the "trigger" made them "detectable" so to speak, and Yes it is possible that she only detects the 4 we know, given I am not entirely convinced the writers have even decided on the final one.

Raiders and Centurions have been compared to animals before. That's probably the difference between them and the human models. Perhaps the animals can feel them like the human models can (now that they've triggered perhaps) and the Raider turned for a more intensive scan and then ran like a scalded dog (to abuse the metaphor) when it realized what it was looking at.


After watching "He That Believeth In Me," I have an idea on who the Fifth Cylon is:

I want to say Laura Roslin is the Fifth. I say this for a couple of reasons:

5) Laura shared visons with the other two known Cylons on board.

I've been thinking about this last one for a bit now. I was wondering if maybe the shared visions had something to do with the fact that she has some Cylon DNA in her from the time when Baltar injected her with Hera's blood to cure her of the cancer. Wasn't Hera a part of those visions, too? Not just her appearance, wasn't her mind there too?

Pharaoh Atem
April 5th, 2008, 05:58 AM
i rewatched the ep right before pixis goes up you hear seelix call sam "hardball" and sam calls seellix "longshot"

so i'm assuming it must me there calls sighs

Pharaoh Atem
April 5th, 2008, 05:59 AM
much Better Battle Scene Than Razor!!!!

it worked cause we knew it was open season on the civilians

peragrin
April 5th, 2008, 06:23 AM
Personal gripe. Why does Baltar aways get the harem willing to kill for him?

Starbuck isn't cylon, but I do wonder if she got thrown through a wormhole? From One gas giant to a neabula? That could be how that particular nebula was formed by gas that has been dragged through that wormhole. Why it wraps around earth and back again is a mystery. Or maybe it's the Jupiter's storm spot. Maybe the three places(perhaps more) are linked. She could get gun camera footage of earth, and then got sucked out to where all the gas goes (nebula).


Why did she get a shiny new fighter, was gone for 2 months/6 hours? If she is a copy does she still have her ovaries, various broken bones that the old Kara had? Doc's medical exam wasn't very good if it didn't mention that stuff. X-rays would have detected most of it.

Briangate78
April 5th, 2008, 06:43 AM
Starbuck went through the Stargate to reach Earth! :p

Mainer82
April 5th, 2008, 06:45 AM
Did anyone notice...

That some of four "new" cyclons talked to Boomer and she didn't seem to notice anything about them? If the Chief is really a Cylon, that means there was a little Cylon-on-Cylon action during season 1 when the Chief and Boomer were hot and heavy for each other. It also brings a new sense of humor to the episode when the Chief is confiding in the (at that time unrevealed Cylon) Cavil character and Cavil states something like, "I know you're not a Cylon, because I am and I haven't seen you at any of our meetings."

That when the #6 that is in Baltar's head appeared this time, no "Cylon music" preceded her appearance? Every time he had a vision of her, there was no music. Oversight on the producers' parts, or does it mean something? (I kinda miss the music, it was a little creepy.)I'm wondering the same thing, if 6 can detect the final 5 why couldn't Boomer? Maybe she can't because she is not thinking about them / searching for them like the 6's are?

Julie
April 5th, 2008, 06:55 AM
pooor pixis .....

love the return of funny baltar

daniel9
April 5th, 2008, 07:23 AM
lol next week is gonna be fun. caval is gonna find out what results from him lobotomizing the raiders. hehehe

marielabbott
April 5th, 2008, 07:27 AM
About Laura being the final Cylon...I'm kind of torn on that. Does the dying leader that leads the remnant of humanity to Earth necessarily have to be human? I know it's definitely implied, but has it been implicitedly stated somewhere?

I guess it ties in to how the final five are different from the rest of the Cylons. Do they have the same destruction of humanity MO, how did the Cylons evolve, where does the Cylon God fit in? Why are the other Cylons programmed to avoid thinking about them? Is there another intelligence at work, and if so, what does it/they want?

somedude
April 5th, 2008, 07:43 AM
I was amazed by the battle scenes. They were so gorgeous in HD.

Extrenix
April 5th, 2008, 08:59 AM
Awesome ep.
Intense battle scene.
Excellent opener.
and finally baltar gets a haircut and shaved his face !!!!

LoneStar1836
April 5th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Great Episode overall. I think the Baltar story-line kinda dragged and was the only slow part of the episode. The ep began strong and ended strong. It was a solid good opener, but not the best Season premiere, imo.Agreed.

Scattered will always be my fav. I think I even liked season 2's better, but I wasn't expecting a whole lot from this episode so I didn't come away disappointed. It served its purpose as a setup episode to get the season rolling.

Wow. They knocked off another 600 just like that. At least that interesting looking ship survived ...for now....


He wasnt giving them lobotomies to find any answers he was doing it so they would over ride their base program and attack the fleet even though the raiders all knew that the final 5 are in the fleet and as such they can't attack the fleet because there is a chance that they would kill the final 5 which is against their programming. That's what cavil is trying to do, by-pass that programming by lobotomizing them.That's what I'm thinking too. Next week's episode looks like a good one. Dammit! We have to wait a week. :mckay:


If she is a copy does she still have her ovaries, various broken bones that the old Kara had? Doc's medical exam wasn't very good if it didn't mention that stuff. X-rays would have detected most of it.If she is a copy, Simon knows about the broken fingers etc. I'd wager Leoben knows about the fingers as well...if she is a copy sent by the group of known seven Cylons. They aren't going to mess up those details.

But.....I don't think she is some kind of copy and definitely do not think she is a Cylon or has been one from the beginning. She is the real deal, imo. Human through and through. *crosses fingers that that is true* I'll just go along for the ride on how they explain what happened to her rather than try to guess.

As far as Kara going after Laura at the end...Is pointing a gun at Laura going to make her change her mind and reverse her suspicions? No way, but Kara has always been impulsive and irrational at times. She has really seen earth and just can't believe that the fleet is jumping away from their destination.


*whines* Do we need a fifth and final Cylon? I don't want any of the other major characters to be revealed as one. :mckay: If there has to be a fifth, make it Dee.

Jumper_One
April 5th, 2008, 09:37 AM
Starbuck went through the Stargate to reach Earth! :p

:lol:

I thought it was a cool season premiere. the battle scenes were awesome and the story interesting. didn't like the Baltar storyline though, those people remind me too much of the telepaths in s5 of B5 :S (btw that was Leela Savasta right? :D). anyway once again someone tries to kill him and he survives. no surprise imo. good to know how Kara feels about Cylon husbands LOL ;) I thought it was interesting that Lee mentioned Zak, especially since some people suggested he might be the final Cylon. I guess Kara will convince Roslin and the fleet will head back to the nebula. looking forward to the next ep!

TheQuestionMan
April 5th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Bloody brilliant *******s with an evil cliffhanger.

No body does it better. Simply the best television around.

QM

g.o.d
April 5th, 2008, 10:05 AM
great show, great episode

Trek_Girl42
April 5th, 2008, 10:19 AM
I think Laura's role as dying leader pulls her from the running. She's suposed to be the dying leader who will take the humans to Earth. PRetty much implies she's Human herself. Plus it'd be a big cope out.

I also don't see her living past the middle of the season.

Then again.. "dying leader". I wonder jsut how bad Starbucks headaches are gonna get....
Nah. She's going to die, but it'll be in the last four episodes of the series. My bet anyway.


i rewatched the ep right before pixis goes up you hear seelix call sam "hardball" and sam calls seellix "longshot"

Love it! I have to go re-watch in a few minutes. Didn't Seelix had trouble scoring on the pyramid game in the bar? :P

As far as Kara going after Laura at the end...Is pointing a gun at Laura going to make her change her mind and reverse her suspicions? No way, but Kara has always been impulsive and irrational at times. She has really seen earth and just can't believe that the fleet is jumping away from their destination.
Someone else in the thread mentioned this idea (can't remember who), but I agree with it.Starbuck will do an Athena, flip the gun around and hand it to the president, HOWEVER, guessing from the commercials Roslin is going to hold the gun on Starbuck. But she won't of shoot of course.

LoneStar1836
April 5th, 2008, 10:37 AM
Someone else in the thread mentioned this idea (can't remember who), but I agree with it.[SPOILERS]Starbuck will do an Athena, flip the gun around and hand it to the president, HOWEVER, guessing from the commercials Roslin is going to hold the gun on Starbuck. But she won't of shoot of course.I thought about that moment but they have already done that in the show.

speculation talk about the speculation talk......:DI suppose Starbuck could repeat it, but it doesn't make as much sense since Boomer had been programmed to kill Adama and tried to carry out the deed. Same can't be said for Kara. It loses its impact, imo, and don't think that RDM would pull a repeat.

I could be wrong, but it just wouldn't carry as much weight as the original if played out in the same manner....so I kinda hope that's not where they are going with it.



On another note, I hope Conner...the dude from Stargate: Atlantis...isn't dead after the way that woman was beating the *bleep* out of him. I liked seeing him pop up last season even if he didn't have all that much to do (except bar tend) after Collaborators, but he was a familiar face.

metabog
April 5th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Gaius Baltar = Jesus Christ.

munciefan
April 5th, 2008, 12:15 PM
I am thinking that the cylons also want to know where earth is, to wipe out the remaining humans....saw that some of the 5 were in the fleet, and bid a hasty retreat, so that (at least) 4 of the 5 could lead them to earth, to wipe out the 13th tribe.

Trek_Girl42
April 5th, 2008, 12:46 PM
I am thinking that the cylons also want to know where earth is, to wipe out the remaining humans....saw that some of the 5 were in the fleet, and bid a hasty retreat, so that (at least) 4 of the 5 could lead them to earth, to wipe out the 13th tribe.Yup, between the final five (or four anyway), and the fact that the humans are still ahead in finding earth, wiping out the fleet at this point would be a very stupid move on the part of the cylons.

Re-watched the ep, spotted the part where Seelix was called Longshot, still missed hearing Anders's callsign though.

DOIKECARTER
April 5th, 2008, 12:55 PM
Ok I haven't seen the episode yet so I don't really know the proper context but still isn't that a bit hypocritical seeing as she's ok with Athena being a Cylon...............granted she tried shooting her but that's by the by.
I felt worse by watching Lee, Adama and Roslin adviced by 3 cylons (Chief, Tigh and Tory

marielabbott
April 5th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Has anyone else watched the original BSG? I watched it on DVD a few years ago, so I don't remember a lot, but I read an interesting theory that harkens back to the original series. Remember the beings of light that took Starbuck and Apollo, and when they left they couldn't remember them, or explain to anyone what happened to them (if I'm remembering correctly)? Maybe Starbuck's experience can be explained that way, maybe they're writing a reimagining of that plot line.

Lady Snow
April 5th, 2008, 01:04 PM
i rewatched the ep right before pixis goes up you hear seelix call sam "hardball" and sam calls seellix "longshot"

so i'm assuming it must me there calls sighs

Well-spotted!


and finally baltar gets a haircut and shaved his face !!!!

That was possibly the best thing Baltar's done in ages.

---

Another honest question: When the Four were revealed, Sam had on a leg brace and was gimpy. When he was going into his Viper, he had neither a leg brace nor a limp. I know they needed everyone with a modicum of flight experience in the birds, but still.

Still a great episode. I think next week'll be better, though. :)

A Clockwork Lime
April 5th, 2008, 01:06 PM
Gaius Baltar = Jesus Christ.
That's pretty much what they were trying to protray. If you also notice, I believe most of the scenes showing large shots of his followers -- or, you might say, disciples -- showed twelve of them huddled around him. He was also persecuted and put on a virtual cross via his trial, but after everyone assumed he was going to be a dead man... he survived and began what's shaping up to be a new life as a messiah.

It's all a red herring, though. If anyone on the show is going to be a Christ figure, it's going to be Kara. She's the one who's returned from the dead and has been gifted with an ability to lead the survivors to their view of heaven. She's pulled off miracles time and again through the series and has been persecuted and tested at every turn. Recovering the arrow of Athena, surviving the perverse Cylon experiments on Caprica, escaping from the grasps of death by "converting" an enemy Cylon Raider, etc. Now she's struggling to find people to believe in and follow her despite the established status quo, because she's "seen" her God -- Earth -- and knows she can lead everyone to him.

Interesting thing is that they both went through a baptism of blood of sorts. Baltar when they tried to kill him, Kara when she blew up a Raider.

As others have said, the time descrepency is likely due to the means of FTL she used to travel so far so quickly. Einstein for the win. The ship is definitely a mystery, but if you think about it... why would anyone who could recreate both Kara and the ship in exacting detail not bother to ding the ship up like it was when she left? Especially since that would be such an obvious thing to notice? My only guess is that whatever method of travel was employed, it functioned sort of like the transporters in Star Trek; cleaning up a few obvious errors when it rebuilt the ship on the other end. Pretty lame guess, admittedly, but it's all I have at the moment.

Oh, and as a final note, it's easy to answer why none of the Seven ever recognized Tigh or anyone else. Six explained it quite simply. They were programmed to never think about them, even when they could obviously feel their presence. The question is: Why where they programmed that way?

Trek_Girl42
April 5th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Another honest question: When the Four were revealed, Sam had on a leg brace and was gimpy. When he was going into his Viper, he had neither a leg brace nor a limp. I know they needed everyone with a modicum of flight experience in the birds, but still.
I've been thinking the same- remember back to season one when Starbuck couldn't fly because of her leg. But isn't it Anders's left leg that's hurt? And it's the right one that's used to hold the thruster down or whatever and bear the 6 Gs. If I'm remembering back to "The Hand of God" correctly. :P

But you're right, he should still be limping. :jack_new_anime06:

Pic
April 5th, 2008, 01:25 PM
I, too, grow weary of the Baltar storyline and am glad TPTB don't devote most of the show in that direction (I could see a bit less). Someone said 'red herring' and I agree. It's distracting.

I''m so glad Lee and Adama are speaking. I didn't like the tension the end of s3.

I don't think Laura is the 5th cylon - she's in the "last supper" picture and RDM said that the final cylon wasn't there. Also, she'd be too obvious of a choice.

I'll go along with the theory that the final cylon is female (what have I got to lose). They seem to have a balance on the gender thing and another male would tip the balance too much. Although I was liking Felix for it before that thought. Maybe Dee would be a good choice since she's been a regular character since the beginning, unless they come up with someone new.

Or, the 5th was on Pixis (sp?) and blew up --- and we'll never know. :::kidding:::

Trek_Girl42
April 5th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Ron Moore has updated his blog, the podcast will be along later this week. Also there's a photo from his directing debut. And I can't figure if it's spoilery or not.....so proceed with caution. To be on the safe side. ;)

http://rondmoore.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2008/4/5_Yes%2C_we_have_no_Podcast.html

munciefan
April 5th, 2008, 02:00 PM
I actually think the Baltar storyline is very interesting. He is very hedonistic, and it will be interesting to see if he can redeem himself in some way (didn't Baltar in the original series do so eventually?)

Pandora's_Box
April 5th, 2008, 02:54 PM
I actually think the Baltar storyline is very interesting. He is very hedonistic, and it will be interesting to see if he can redeem himself in some way (didn't Baltar in the original series do so eventually?)

Redeem himself for providing the Cylon's with the means to destroy the twelve colonies and nearly eradicate all of humanity? How? I can't imagine a way that would be possible. But that's just my opinion.

Pharaoh Atem
April 5th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Redeem himself for providing the Cylon's with the means to destroy the twelve colonies and nearly eradicate all of humanity? How? I can't imagine a way that would be possible. But that's just my opinion.

he didn't know that until the day it happen

ArthurKing
April 5th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Ahh ... shaking off the profile dust, having last visited on April 16th, 2007! :cameron:

a) (most important) I honestly am not sure if the supposed '4' on galactica are, in fact, Cylons. I know Moore has stated that they are Cylons - show runners state things to mislead fans all the time. I'm not sure what it is or why I feel this way. Oddly enough, I was ready to accept the premise at the end of the 3rd season. I was SHOCKED, but it seemed like another BSG-style twist that fit in with the show's penchant for, well, not fitting in.

However, after watching the opener ... I just can't shake the feeling that they aren't Cylons. I'm not sure why - I think I'm going to rewatch and look for cues. Now, to be clear: I think that, at this point, all 4 honestly think they are Cylons. Nevertheless ...

[NB: Although I don't care too much for the Indian chick. Perhaps they'll toss her out the airlock before they do the reveal that they are still humans. ::fingers crossed::]

b) I believed that they killed Adama during Tigh's visualization/dream scene. On any other show, I would have immediately dismissed it as "oh, it's a dream", but, BSG being BSG, I actually believed it. Of course, I was standing up in my chair shouting "OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! THEY KILLED ADAMA" But, if any show has the (pardon the expression) brass balls to pull something like that, it would be BSG. Having said that: I'm certainly glad that they didn't do it.

c) My thoughts on how the next episode will open re: sbux & Roslyn: I'm fully expecting one of those 'look, I could have killed you but here I am standing over you and telling you "I am a human"!" sort of deals - Starbuck trying to prove her humanity. Nevertheless, I think we can all agree that (at least in short term) it's not going to work! To the brig she goes ...

d) I can't believe we have to wait 6 more days for the next epsiode. I forgot what the Friday-Friday Galacticrack withdrawal cycle was like over these many hiaitus months. Now, it's back in full force!

Oka
April 5th, 2008, 03:38 PM
This show is so fascinating. I had some problems with this episode, mainly the Baltar/Jesus thing that seems kind of sudden, but it might work out in the end. However, there were so many good moments between the characters that it basically overshadowed any flaws it might have had. Gods am I glad BSG is back!

There have been some missteps along the ride but there are just so much good stuff you tend to look past it. They take risks, and that's part of what makes the show great.

And the space battles... wow.

I've followed this show since the mini-series and it feels like we're close to the end now. :(

gravityStar
April 5th, 2008, 03:51 PM
That's pretty much what they were trying to protray. If you also notice, I believe most of the scenes showing large shots of his followers -- or, you might say, disciples -- showed twelve of them huddled around him. He was also persecuted and put on a virtual cross via his trial, but after everyone assumed he was going to be a dead man... he survived and began what's shaping up to be a new life as a messiah.

It's all a red herring, though. If anyone on the show is going to be a Christ figure, it's going to be Kara. She's the one who's returned from the dead and has been gifted with an ability to lead the survivors to their view of heaven. She's pulled off miracles time and again through the series and has been persecuted and tested at every turn. Recovering the arrow of Athena, surviving the perverse Cylon experiments on Caprica, escaping from the grasps of death by "converting" an enemy Cylon Raider, etc. Now she's struggling to find people to believe in and follow her despite the established status quo, because she's "seen" her God -- Earth -- and knows she can lead everyone to him.

Think back to were Baltar comes from. Hedonistic, selfish, no faith. Back in the mini-series on Caprica, he desperately wanted to take that old woman's number and get in the transport. He was trying to think of something to do or say that would get him saved.

Now, in this episode he is willing to make a deal with God and give up his life. That deal doesn't mean much, because face it; people make deals with God all the time where they don't intend to keep up their part of the bargain. But here is Gaius Baltar, willing to actually go through with it, and give up his life. He has become a man of faith. I'm not calling him a saint, or a savior, or whatever. But one thing is certain; he believes.



As others have said, the time descrepency is likely due to the means of FTL she used to travel so far so quickly. Einstein for the win. The ship is definitely a mystery, but if you think about it... why would anyone who could recreate both Kara and the ship in exacting detail not bother to ding the ship up like it was when she left? Especially since that would be such an obvious thing to notice? My only guess is that whatever method of travel was employed, it functioned sort of like the transporters in Star Trek; cleaning up a few obvious errors when it rebuilt the ship on the other end. Pretty lame guess, admittedly, but it's all I have at the moment.

The brand-new viper is a statement itself. Whoever built it, this was the _first_ one. Think about that, somebody built a Viper, their _first_ Viper and it's perfect. It isn't just a copy, or a bad replica. No, it's perfection.



Oh, and as a final note, it's easy to answer why none of the Seven ever recognized Tigh or anyone else. Six explained it quite simply. They were programmed to never think about them, even when they could obviously feel their presence. The question is: Why where they programmed that way?
The Cylons have a plan. But I think only a select few of them know what it is. All the others Cylons have been manipulated into executing it.

ArthurKing
April 5th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Think back to were Baltar comes from. Hedonistic, selfish, no faith. Back in the mini-series on Caprica, he desperately wanted to take that old woman's number and get in the transport. He was trying to think of something to do or say that would get him saved.

Now, in this episode he is willing to make a deal with God and give up his life. That deal doesn't mean much, because face it; people make deals with God all the time where they don't intend to keep up their part of the bargain. But here is Gaius Baltar, willing to actually go through with it, and give up his life. He has become a man of faith. I'm not calling him a saint, or a savior, or whatever. But one thing is certain; he believes.


Ah, one thing you may be overlooking is Baltar's genius ability to manipulate and control a situation. I'd encourage you to watch the scene again. Pay very close attention to Baltar's facial expressions and where he puts his eyes.

A very plausible interpretation is that he saw the boy getting better and then orchestrated the scene so that he could play up the 'prophet' role while simultaneously ensuring his stability in this temporary refuge. Notice earlier, he didn't say one way or the other in terms of whether the boy would ultimately die (they ended the scene with the woman's trailing voice). Then, as he sees him recovering, he realizes it's 'safe' to make his prayer, etc.

In Ron Moore's mind, Gaius Baltar is about one thing and one thing only: Gaius Baltar. I remember a while back I thought he was having a 'redepmtive' moment as well (I think in the episode where the nuclear weapon went off in the fleet?). It didn't pan out.

Also consider: Baltar is in a very precarious position! He has nowhere to go! He's with a cult whose protection of him will only continue if he appeases their sense of him being some great religious figure! Danger is on all sides, even from his supposed protectors! (I'd point to the start of the bathroom scene where the woman removes the razor. Look, the camera work was clearly playing up the dangerous ambiguity in that first moment: is she going to harm him?) Baltar's mind is working the whole time to save his #1 priorty: Baltar!

Good first post, btw, and welcome to the boards!

Night Marshal
April 5th, 2008, 04:39 PM
As so beings the first ten episode teaser that will leave us hanging for at least six mouths. I have to say I really not sure why they felt they had to end with such a fake cliffhanger. Everyone knows there not going to kill Roslin, But they sure as hell pushed that Drum as loud and has hard as they could to make you think something bad was going to happen. And if you have learned anything from BSG if there going to surprise you there not going to have two minutes of drums before they do the deed.

I think the reactions to Kara coming back are as you would expect there no reason to listen to her. I also liked how four Cylons are fighting with who they are. And I hope that leaving the Viper will finally make Lee less Emo.

But all that said BSG is still kinda Meh it just doesn't have the same hold on me it once did. I think that will change as this season goes on and next week show looks much better than this one. But I will wait and see. I just found out I'm going to be nelson house for this may sweeps and I haven't decided if BSG has earned my vote yet.

jenks
April 5th, 2008, 04:49 PM
Another snooze fest wrapped around some high quality CGI, can't say I'm surprised. This 'intense' way they all try to speak now is really getting beyond a joke, they all sound like they've got a sore throat, BSG is on the verge of turning to cheese they're trying so hard. :S

Zamboni
April 5th, 2008, 05:05 PM
Gaius Baltar = Jesus Christ.I didn't know Jesus was so popular among the ladies...

I mean, he's banged pretty much every cylon, human, and imaginary chicks in the entire show!!!

What's his power, turn water into Viagra?!

And I can't believe yet another "to be continued"... Dammit I want more... NOW!!!

*clutches head and screams like Starbuck... but in a manly manner*

LoneStar1836
April 5th, 2008, 05:45 PM
didn't like the Baltar storyline though, those people remind me too much of the telepaths in s5 of B5 :S Missed this on my first read of the thread. Yeah, they do kind of remind me of them. :S And I really disliked that storyline on B5. I couldn't stand Byron or the actor that played him.... Luckily I like James Callis. :D

I do think the Baltar stuff in this ep did drag it down. His story is not my favorite, though I do find he and his part in the story of BSG interesting.



The brand-new viper is a statement itself. Whoever built it, this was the _first_ one. Think about that, somebody built a Viper, their _first_ Viper and it's perfect. It isn't just a copy, or a bad replica. No, it's perfection.Interesting take.

The Viper is obviously a key to understanding what's going on with Kara.

Welcome to the board. :)

frakurface
April 5th, 2008, 05:48 PM
great season premiere!

Andy_Actual
April 5th, 2008, 06:02 PM
This is my first entry...I thought that last night's episode was great, especially the first 10 minutes! Watched it with my wife (both of us are fans) and when the first commercial break came on we just looked at each other, opened mouthed and wide-eyed! Of course, I wasn't expecting anything in Episode 1 in terms of answers, of course not...it's a season-setter, an opener, a bloody tease is what it is! As for the speculation on the whole situation, I think the writers have done a great job in creating a show that spurs people into discussion and guessing what is going on. My take on Starbuck's return is that she DID die, (the gun-camera shows it, Apollo saw it and she'd been gone for ages). Now she's back with a brand-new Viper, and she was gone for 6 hours "and change" so she reckons. So I think that the power at work over the whole story (the one that could be God, or the Gods, or the Cylon God or whatever it is) has Starbuck unknowingly 'working' for them, and I think she really will lead the humans to Earth. It would fit in with her whole drawing circles business and what the hybrid and Leoben cylons have been saying all along. I also disagree with the 'anti-Baltar' guys: he's brilliant and he will play a pivotal role in the story as it progresses, probably playing a 'Jesus' type role to the Cyclon God? I love this show!

Dusk
April 5th, 2008, 06:04 PM
Yes, a very satisfying season opener, no doubts there. I gasped loudly when those missiles struck the Space Park - it's my favourite ship!! Thank goodness it is only battle scarred. And I think one struck the bow of the Astral Queen too. No loss there really. This sequence in particular was riveting, because the Cylons have never been able to launch a strike on the entire fleet before, and there were tens of thousands of people just sitting helpless whilst the battle raged around them. The opening population figure looks to suggest that almost 2000 perished during the conflict.

I really have little or no interest in the Baltar storyline, however. Especially suggestions that he has healing abilities or at least some divine connection with the Cylon god.

I'm also a little perturbed by Roslin's intense disbelief of Kara, and her mounting paranoia about the final five. I have my bets who the unrevealed Cylon is, just speculation I admit, but it would certainly make for an interesting revelation.

Andy_Actual
April 5th, 2008, 06:27 PM
I agree with the Roslin thing. She seems to have 'turned' a little bit. First there was the moment at the end of Season 3 when the final 4 were 'activated', the fleet lost power and she was definitely AFFECTED. Now she's being all chummy with the Six after all their visions together. I was also interested in her facial expressions in this episode. She seemed to smile in a knowing way when the Cylon fleet appeared. But I have real difficulty in believing she's the 12th (my wife is CONVINCED of it!!) because surely the final cylon would be someone who has been manipulating the whole situation? How can she have been doing any manipulating when she was ready to be shot by a cylon firing squad back on New Caprica with Richard Hatch? And she was SO keen on having the cylons wiped out by the disease in Season 3 that Helo put a stop to. I don't know. Maybe the 12th cylon will be someone new and totally unexpected like Dirk Benedict! LOL!

somedude
April 5th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Is this the first episode where we've seen a Raider destroyed and spray blood on a Colonial fighter? I just thought it seemed like a weird moment when Starbuck flew thru that cloud of Cylon blood.

scorp76
April 5th, 2008, 07:33 PM
All I got to say is that the brand new Starbuck and her new Viper are proudly sponsored by the Ship Of Lights Inc.

Sam didn't shoot the Raider was because in his head something said, "Dude, I can fix the situation. Let me contact the Raider and tell it that the revered final 5 is on Battlestar. The 7 are trying to kill us!"

Finally, Roslin is accusing Starbuck as being a Cylon may be due to the fact that she does not want to admit she is leading the colonials the wrong way since she is 'the dying leader that leads the humans to Earth.'

Actionhank
April 5th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Great Episode. That's why I love this show.

Now into medias res:
What do you think of the theory that the raiders are with the final five? I mean they have painted the pentagon (which's "penta" stands for the number Five in greek) on their wings + now they backed off after exchanging red glows with Anders...

the fifth man
April 5th, 2008, 07:52 PM
Great Episode. That's why I love this show.

Now into medias res:
What do you think of the theory that the raiders are with the final five? I mean they have painted the pentagon (which's "penta" stands for the number Five in greek) on their wings + now they backed off after exchanging red glows with Anders...

Very interesting theory. I'll give you that.:)

Lady Snow
April 5th, 2008, 08:20 PM
Finally, Roslin is accusing Starbuck as being a Cylon may be due to the fact that she does not want to admit she is leading the colonials the wrong way since she is 'the dying leader that leads the humans to Earth.'

That's an interesting take that I hadn't previously considered. Could Roslin's mistrust of Starbuck be a factor of Roslin's sheer desire to fulfill the prophecies? If there's one thing I've learned from Harry Potter, it's that prophecies are what you make of them - interesting.

ToasterOnFire
April 5th, 2008, 08:29 PM
A nice premiere. Really, it's great to have BSG back period after a drought of over a year. :)

The intro battle was some great CGI and I liked the ironies and undertones between the revealed 4 and everyone else as well as the mystery surrounding Starbuck.

Some parts were slow though, especially the Baltar storyline. I'm really over having women fawn over Baltar. Meh. Was the guy who assaulted Baltar in the bathroom the resistance guy who played Ladon on SGA? I couldn't tell for sure.

I had two questions that didn't get answered on the TWOP boards:

1) How did Starbuck know where to find Roslin in the end? Was it common knowledge that the president was bunking in Adama's quarters (pardon my squee)? Are we to assume that she found her way in a cutscene? Or is the whole scene with Kara, Roslin, and the gun some kind of daydream like Tigh shooting Adama?

2) Starbuck winced and grabbed her head right after the fleet jumped, presumably moving them further from Earth. Roslin had a similar reaction after they jumped toward the end of Crossroads 2. Are these reactions related?

Fenrir Foxz
April 5th, 2008, 08:37 PM
Starbuck went through the Stargate to reach Earth! :p

So that's what that big swirling cloud Starbuck flew into in S3 was :P


I thought it was a cool season premiere. the battle scenes were awesome and the story interesting. didn't like the Baltar storyline though, those people remind me too much of the telepaths in s5 of B5 :S (btw that was Leela Savasta right? :D).

Indeed it was :D ...Yeah the whole Baltar thing is a bit confusing :P but I expect it will become more understadable as the season progresses...


anyway once again someone tries to kill him and he survives. no surprise imo. good to know how Kara feels about Cylon husbands LOL ;) I thought it was interesting that Lee mentioned Zak, especially since some people suggested he might be the final Cylon. I guess Kara will convince Roslin and the fleet will head back to the nebula. looking forward to the next ep!

I bet Anders freaked a bit when Kara said that :P


Great Episode. That's why I love this show.

Now into medias res:
What do you think of the theory that the raiders are with the final five? I mean they have painted the pentagon (which's "penta" stands for the number Five in greek) on their wings + now they backed off after exchanging red glows with Anders...

That's a really good theory ;)

Arative
April 5th, 2008, 08:46 PM
'm not sure what to make of the final 5. We've seen no indication that any human cylon replaced an existing human, memories and all, so to me that means Tigh has always been a Cylon. Which means he was a cylon, when the original caprican cylons were chrome toasters. So where did he and the other 4 come from? I don't think that the chrome toasters created the human cylons.

The 7 don't know who the 5 are but know they exist and have been programed not to think about them. The raiders and I think the basestars are able to recognize the 5 and that's why they retreated. So who really controls the basestars and raiders? The 7 or some unknown force that predates the chrome toasters and the 7?

I'm sure that Kara is not cylon. If I remember correctly, the original series had some god-like white beings and they brought Starbuck back to life. I think who ever brought Kara back, with a new viper and all will be similar to these white beings from TOS.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

Actionhank
April 5th, 2008, 09:01 PM
'm not sure what to make of the final 5. We've seen no indication that any human cylon replaced an existing human, memories and all, so to me that means Tigh has always been a Cylon. Which means he was a cylon, when the original caprican cylons were chrome toasters. So where did he and the other 4 come from? I don't think that the chrome toasters created the human cylons.
Hmmm, what about "aging" anyways? How old are they really? This all happened and will happen again... Could be meant literally or what? :eek:
Maybe once every 100 years they are resetted and there we go again - they are already rebuilding Caprica you know. Or is it just one big mind frak? Because that's what life probably is. :)

metabog
April 5th, 2008, 09:12 PM
I didn't know Jesus was so popular among the ladies...

I mean, he's banged pretty much every cylon, human, and imaginary chicks in the entire show!!!

What's his power, turn water into Viagra?!

And I can't believe yet another "to be continued"... Dammit I want more... NOW!!!

*clutches head and screams like Starbuck... but in a manly manner*

And that's why it's so interesting, he's turning from a womanbanging coward to a messiah.

anotherquestion
April 5th, 2008, 09:47 PM
The beginning of the last season started out with both a bang and a whimper. Some moments were magical, others undercut the continuity of character for one of the principals, and one moment was simply cheating.

The cheating moment was the "vision" Saul had of shooting Adama. This seemed like a cheap carny trick to me, only included for shock value. As if we hadn't been anticipating the new material and revelations feverishly enough. This was entirely an outright manipulation of the audience and a major break in the compact between the shows writers and the viewers. We haven't see "take backs" like this. The closest thing I can remember is when Baltar saw Adama "drowning" little Hera in the stream on Kobol, but he was obviously in a fuge state at that time, and that vision was followed by several others that were meaningful in the larger arc of the story and also prophetic. Saul shooting the "old man" (if only in his dreams) was simply a cheap shot (pun kinda intended), unless the writers give us more and better rationale later on.

Baltar's uncharacteristic willingness to sacrifice himself totally betrayed what he has always been about, betrayal itself, for the sake of self preservation, and for its own sake. Wouldn't a better time for such nobility have come before he caved in to the Cylons on New Caprica and signed the death warrant for so many Colonials ? I mean this is the same sort of incident ("my boy was shot by one of your police") that he just stood trial for, crimes for which he showed no remorse, mounted a vigorous defense against, and had just conceived a plan for a follow up suit for damages, if I'm remembering correctly, which he wished to hatch with Rollo Lampkin. I don't think we saw any incident in the hours after the trial (which this episode represents) that could explain such a turnaround of character, even the viral infection of the other young boy (why is his life more important than the one snuffed out by his order?).

One small moment, not much observed or commented on, was the substitution of "One will be revealed" for "And they have a plan" in the opening mantra of the series. It seems likely the the revelation of the final Cylon is the culmination of the Cylon Plan. Although the teasers for next weeks episode tend to imply that the Cylons, are going to become more divided than ever, leading to the obvious question, "Whose plan is being played out?"

The words of the "first hybrid" from Razor were spoken from a perspective of timeless detachment ("this has all happened before and it will all happen again") that asserts a vison of fatalism and predestination, mingled with a contradictory admonition to Kendra, that Starbuck will lead to the end of the human race, intoned with the kind of emphasis that this would be an undesirable outcome from the hybrid's perspective. I suppose this could be a "last gasp" effort at misdirection toward Kendra, but, if things are happening in a big cycle of repetition, then what's the use of warnings of any kind? Destiny has a way of playing out with a grim repetitive spiral that swirls like the maelstrom that Kara plunged into.

One of the big moments was the loss of so many lives (the count of the living dipping below 40,000 for the first time) in the battle with the Cylons. Anders saved the fleet, and the teasers implied that he passed along more knowledge than his own nature, but that of the others in the "final five".

Another big moment was, of course, the return of Kara Thrace which also bordered on another "jump the shark" situation. How many times have we seen a series in which a principal character asserts secret and hidden knowledge that they possess but are not willing or able to fully disclose? This is the central plot premise for "Lost" and the "X files" among many others. A little bit of that goes a long way. Kara knows the way to Earth only by "feeling" when she is moving further away from it, which in three-dimensional space, does not seem very promising as a navigational vector. There would be uncounted headings that would move in a different direction leading closer to Earth, but never actually reaching it. So her "true knowledge" seems to be of limited value. So is her fear of "getting out of reach" of her sense of direction to Earth (she may not know where the fleet is going, but Gaeta does, and the fleet could easily jump back to where they came from without Starbuck's "help"). If they did reverse course, the the Starbuck Geiger counter could start clicking away again.

scorp76
April 5th, 2008, 10:08 PM
Anyone wants to take bets Boomer knows that Galen and Sam are cylons. It looks like she comes over to 'check out if they are OK' after just being activated.

Arative - I'm sure that Kara is not cylon. If I remember correctly, the original series had some god-like white beings and they brought Starbuck back to life. I think who ever brought Kara back, with a new viper and all will be similar to these white beings from TOS. That's the Ship Of Lights where the angels are. Though we haven't seen the demon or devil yet like in the TOS but am sure one of the major characters will represent that being.

anotherquestion - Another big moment was, of course, the return of Kara Thrace which also bordered on another "jump the shark" situation. How many times have we seen a series in which a principal character asserts secret and hidden knowledge that they possess but are not willing or able to fully disclose? This is the central plot premise for "Lost" and the "X files" among many others. A little bit of that goes a long way. Kara knows the way to Earth only by "feeling" when she is moving further away from it, which in three-dimensional space, does not seem very promising as a navigational vector. There would be uncounted headings that would move in a different direction leading closer to Earth, but never actually reaching it. So her "true knowledge" seems to be of limited value. So is her fear of "getting out of reach" of her sense of direction to Earth (she may not know where the fleet is going, but Gaeta does, and the fleet could easily jump back to where they came from without Starbuck's "help"). If they did reverse course, the the Starbuck Geiger counter could start clicking away again. I think Kara was indicating that once severed from the connection she is forever severed.

wiseowl777
April 5th, 2008, 11:14 PM
i rewatched the ep right before pixis goes up you hear seelix call sam "hardball" and sam calls seellix "longshot"

so i'm assuming it must me there calls sighs

-awesome catch rite there!... and it makes sense with celix being the 1 not allowed to become a pilot originally bc her "job was too important" and then sam with the obvious pyramid/basketball thingy

wiseowl777
April 5th, 2008, 11:59 PM
everyone keeps talking about these ships or of light... i never watched the original series bc i couldnt see past the walls of the womb, but i doubt that theyd suddenly at the end throw in some being with advanced powers or technology.

to, me theres something even bigger going on thats obviously yet to be revealed. i mean we have 3 people here, who's best explainations are that they are cylons. if there is infact only 1 left then how do u explain the other 2? laura's visions, baltars visions and amazing guesses that are the work of god and then kara's resurrection with a shiney new viper. 2, not even 1!, need to be explained w/o the "tehy were really a cylon" trick... and who knows if neither of the 3 are, then wat the frak is going on?

-i did like what some1 had b4 abt the raiders maybe being on the side of the final 5. perhaps, since they are "alive", they sided with the 5, who eventually were defeated/exiled/beilieved killed, and now that they have proof of their existence there will be infighting and revolution among them. perhaps, their lack of knowledge that they were cylons was the only way to protect themseleves from the other faction (kinda liek ur ori/alteran rift), and then the only thing the 5 could do to futher their own safety was to enter that do not recognize programming into their "basecode"?

-for the person who said that athena acted like she recognized him... i think that was moore frakin with us again, i mean even though neither of them were switched on, cheif and boomer didnt sense anything (even when boomer told cheif she thought she was a cylon), and sam and tori didnt sense anything either, b4 the switch on, so i really do think that they cant sense them sense them... just maybe the 6 is different.

-for ppl that believed that these 4 were only thinking they are cylons, when they could be hybrids, or messengers or have some other role that made them come to the incorrect conclusion that they were cylons.... i was on that boat with ya... but ever since that glowy thing went of in sam's head, how does 1 not say hes not a cylon and that the other 3 are any different from him?


-the thing that bothers me... currently stationed randomly up to the heads of whoever that were killed in the attacks, how did tigh, boomer and chief end up stationed on the same ship, the "only 1" that happened to survive the attacks? not to mention, if the 5th has been a galatica member all along thats still 4! then just so happens that sam and the other guy (tour guide from the start), ended up on that same ship as well?... i mean pegasus had 1.. why did galactica end up with 5. (id include deanna, 6, and leoben.. but they coulda been placed in the surviving fleet during some time of confusion)... just crazy random odds wouldnt ya think?

wiseowl777
April 6th, 2008, 12:09 AM
-the whole... all this has happened before thing i think will also be the decieder... perhaps;
1st every1 lived on kobol... then they made machines that destroyed each other, planet was nuked and they had to leave.
they found 12 colonies settled, but the earth ppl, were really pissed and said see ya well be fine on our own. now they built machines, get nuked and go off on their own to find earth setting up yet another repeat...
-i think thats a logical explaination... and for the time period we get there... id say the past... around 2000 yrs ago, perhaps after they land, with ships in orbit, cylons come and the fleet ends up "sacrificing itself" as well as whoever stayed up on this ships this time (bc after the last time i think theyll think 2x abt settling) and most of the fleet is destroyed, except baltar and his crazy followers who do what they do best and hid. ... so they live and as many said b4 me baltar= jesus... and then we bring ourselves to well.. today!

wiseowl777
April 6th, 2008, 12:11 AM
i know thats like more than 1 theory on the show, but please, shoot them down, add to them, watever, id actually like to read some thoughts... after all thats what this whole threads for, right?

Pharaoh Atem
April 6th, 2008, 01:37 AM
i loved how lee nearly tackles kara ....after they makes it back to the ship and having a tear in his eye after doing so.

turtlesstartedit
April 6th, 2008, 04:24 AM
SERIOUSLY... What happened to the creepy "cylon music" that immediately preceeds #6 when she appears in Baltar's head? Did they get a new music editor? Did they forget that they used to do that? Am I the only one whoever noticed the auditory cue that she was going to appear? Does it mean something?

Kudos to the person that noticed that if Tigh is a Cylon, then Tigh was a Cylon during the 1st Cylon War when the Cylon's were only toasters! How can that be?

Personally, I started watching this show because of the crazy, sexual hallucinations of Baltar, and he remains my favorite character. However, I have noticed that all the characters are just as complexly written and full of contradictions as Baltar. CGI has never impressed me; I watch this show for its writing and acting. For the record, I went from a casual observer watching for Baltar/#6 to a dedicated fan during the season finale of the 1st season. I was totally suckered in... I kept waiting for plot complications, but it seemed like everything was going the colonists' way. I finally gave up, and figured that there wasn't going to be a cliff-hanger, and then Boomer shot the old man! I was totally blindsided, and artistically the producers did it in such a way that you never saw it coming... I was hooked!

My own take on Baltar is that once he was vindicated, he discovered that most people still didn't like him and wanted him dead. Instead of feeling set free by the verdict, he felt more alienated and alone. The irony is not lost on him that he was safer when he was on trial for his life. His willingness to sacrifice his life for the boys is still classic Baltar. BALTAR IS (AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN) A MORAL COWARD; HIS WILLINGNESS TO DIE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SAVING THE BOY AND IS STILL ALL ABOUT HIM. BALTAR IS SCARED TO CONTINUE LIVING IN THIS NEW SITUATION HE HAS FOUND HIMSELF IN, SO HIS COWARDINESS IS COMING THROUGH AS A DESIRE TO STOP FIGHTING AND DIE. During the trial, Baltar was so focused on winning and defeating his adversaries that he never bothered to ask himself whether his life was worth living. Baltar is still the same Baltar: he has only shaved and changed clothes! Baltar is nothing if not an opportunistic surviver! (Even if he is filled with self-loathing and a desire to die...) Remember: Baltar has not told his "followers" anything he truly believes or has discovered on his own. He is only repeating the words of #6.

Which brings me back to the "creepy Cylon" music that used to precede the appearing of #6 in Baltar's head. Someone please comment, explain, or at least tell me I'm not the only one who noticed this...

Pharaoh Atem
April 6th, 2008, 06:30 AM
i didn't notice it i've watched the ep 8 times and i still hadn't noticed it untill you posted that.

it might be a foreshadowing

Jeffala
April 6th, 2008, 08:48 AM
I felt worse by watching Lee, Adama and Roslin adviced by 3 cylons (Chief, Tigh and Tory

I loved that bit. Especially when you think back and remember that three (Tyrol, Tigh, Anders) were also the leaders of the resistance on New Caprica.


Idea: I think maybe the Cylon "God" has some sort of plan and to achieve that plan, he created 12 humanoid cylons. 7 were programmed to destroy humanity and 4 (or 5) were programmed to save it. The two groups would eventually wind up bringing that plan to fruition. This plan would have to be something other than humanity's complete destruction, but something important enough that it wouldn't mind that billions of humans were killed in order to achieve that goal.


If only 4 were programmed to save humanity, I'm not sure what the fifth's purpose is.

LoneStar1836
April 6th, 2008, 09:27 AM
^^Just a reminder that you do not need to spoiler tag anything in this thread that happened in this episode. :) Talk of specifics in future episodes definitely needs to be tagged and labeled as such.




Was the guy who assaulted Baltar in the bathroom the resistance guy who played Ladon on SGA? I couldn't tell for sure. I'm pretty sure that was him. His hair was shorter.


I had two questions that didn't get answered on the TWOP boards:

1) How did Starbuck know where to find Roslin in the end? Was it common knowledge that the president was bunking in Adama's quarters (pardon my squee)? Are we to assume that she found her way in a cutscene? Or is the whole scene with Kara, Roslin, and the gun some kind of daydream like Tigh shooting Adama?I'm just going to assume common knowledge. It's a ship. I'm sure people like to gossip. Who specifically told Kara? Could have been anybody. Maybe she passed someone in the hall and asked them. Just one of those little story details that wasn't spelled out.

I don't think it's going to be a dream sequence.



I'm not completely sold on Tigh's little dream sequence. It was kind of out of nowhere. I'm going to go on the assumption that it was just him thinking about how Boomer was triggered and then ended up shooting Adama thus leading him to think that maybe that's what he might eventually do. So there he was standing in CIC with this new revelation that he is supposed to be a Cylon so he had a moment where he was imagining himself doing the same thing...more out of fear that he might be here to kill his friend rather than some kind of programming kicking in causing him to have flash of shooting Adama. Strange that he chose to imagine himself shooting him in the eye that he himself is missing.


2) Starbuck winced and grabbed her head right after the fleet jumped, presumably moving them further from Earth. Roslin had a similar reaction after they jumped toward the end of Crossroads 2. Are these reactions related?Quite possibly. I think it's more than just a coincidence.

Legionnaire
April 6th, 2008, 09:36 AM
That's an interesting take that I hadn't previously considered. Could Roslin's mistrust of Starbuck be a factor of Roslin's sheer desire to fulfill the prophecies? If there's one thing I've learned from Harry Potter, it's that prophecies are what you make of them - interesting.

Heres a thought that goes along with that...perhaps Roslin is actually afraid that she isn't the prophet and that Starbuck is actually the "dying leader that leads the humans to earth."

Lady Snow
April 6th, 2008, 10:09 AM
During the trial, Baltar was so focused on winning and defeating his adversaries that he never bothered to ask himself whether his life was worth living.

Welcome to one of the pervasive themes of the show. :) Maybe Baltar's finally trying to discover why he's worthy to survive (if at all).


Heres a thought that goes along with that...perhaps Roslin is actually afraid that she isn't the prophet and that Starbuck is actually the "dying leader that leads the humans to earth."

Very true.

LoneStar1836
April 6th, 2008, 10:30 AM
to, me theres something even bigger going on thats obviously yet to be revealed. i mean we have 3 people here, who's best explainations are that they are cylons. if there is infact only 1 left then how do u explain the other 2? laura's visions, baltars visions and amazing guesses that are the work of god and then kara's resurrection with a shiney new viper. 2, not even 1!, need to be explained w/o the "tehy were really a cylon" trick... and who knows if neither of the 3 are, then wat the frak is going on?Well heck maybe the supposed final 4 that have been revealed are not really the final 5 Cylons. :P Total mind frak there. :D

Yeah we've got 3 wildcards left in the game: Roslin, Baltar, and Kara. What's the deal with them? Your guess is as good as mine. And I'm not quite sure that all answers will ever be revealed. The writers may decide to leave some questions open to your own interpretation in the end.


-i did like what some1 had b4 abt the raiders maybe being on the side of the final 5. perhaps, since they are "alive", they sided with the 5, who eventually were defeated/exiled/beilieved killed, and now that they have proof of their existence there will be infighting and revolution among them. perhaps, their lack of knowledge that they were cylons was the only way to protect themseleves from the other faction (kinda liek ur ori/alteran rift), and then the only thing the 5 could do to futher their own safety was to enter that do not recognize programming into their "basecode"?
I think the final 5 came into existence before the revealed 7 did. So one could assume that the final 5 had a hand in creating/programing the hybrids, raiders, even the other 7 Cylons. That's why the raiders, basestars, heck maybe even the chromdomes (though possibly not as they are probably more easily programed since they had no problem battling Anders on Caprica) are ultimately loyal to the final 5 . Just a possibility. Why the split/variation in the so-called plan is anybody's guess.


-for the person who said that athena acted like she recognized him... i think that was moore frakin with us again, i mean even though neither of them were switched on, cheif and boomer didnt sense anything (even when boomer told cheif she thought she was a cylon), and sam and tori didnt sense anything either, b4 the switch on, so i really do think that they cant sense them sense them... just maybe the 6 is different.I don't think Athena has a clue either. She is just not interested in the final 5, imo, so she doesn't think about them like Three and Caprica do.


-for ppl that believed that these 4 were only thinking they are cylons, when they could be hybrids, or messengers or have some other role that made them come to the incorrect conclusion that they were cylons.... i was on that boat with ya... but ever since that glowy thing went of in sam's head, how does 1 not say hes not a cylon and that the other 3 are any different from him?Yeah the scanning of Anders does throw a wrench into that, but I'm still not so keen on Tigh being a Cylon. :mckay:


-the thing that bothers me... currently stationed randomly up to the heads of whoever that were killed in the attacks, how did tigh, boomer and chief end up stationed on the same ship, the "only 1" that happened to survive the attacks? Luck of the draw? Fate? Destiny? All part of the "plan"? A various combination of those?

Same goes for the others. Anders being a final 5 really has to make you wonder. He could have easily been killed on Caprica. And how was his rescue from Caprica a given? Other than it involved Kara who evidently has a major part to play in this.

I would really love to know just at what point last season did RDM and Eick decide to have these 4 be revealed as Cylons.

daniel9
April 6th, 2008, 11:08 AM
there was cylon music when head six appeared. but it is VERY subtle. hm next week=very fun. the start of the cylon civil war. the first appearance of head baltar inside baltar. hm im gonna miss head six and am i the only one who thinks head six wasnt looking at baltar after the healing of that boy?

anotherquestion
April 6th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Among the many unusual characteristics of this episode, was the amount of material "revealed" both in the episode itself, and in the teasers for next week.

Specifically:

The skinjobs are programmed not to think about the final five (revealed by imprisoned Six to Roslin). Although the Sixes are not always highly regarded for their honesty, this must be true. Otherwise Cylons involved in closely intimate relationships with members of the Final Five (like Boomer the 1st with the Chief) would surely have glomed onto their presence.
The non-skinjob Cylons, specifically the Raiders, appear to have no such "inhibition routine" (Also revealed in the episode when the Raider appeared not only to think about the Final Five, but to actively seek them out). The same "awareness" may extend to the Centurions (hinted at in the teasers) which makes for a crumbling apart of the social order in the Cylon community.
The teasers hint that the skinjobs are "lobotomizing" the Raiders, presumably to keep them in murderous form for the remaining Colonials, regardless of the danger that poses for the Final Five. The danger must be genuine (that is, the Five are not able to resurrect like the other skinjobs, or else, what's the real harm?).
At least one of the Six models appears to be aligning with the Centurions and the Raiders and against the Cavils and other skinjobs (hinted at in the trailers). Seems even the Cylons now have a Cylon problem.


The as yet unrevealed questions are just as intriguing: What "flipped the switch" on the Final Four (proximity to Earth or something else) ? How did the Cylons meet in the same time and space as the RTF? If Kara is not a Cylon, how did she "resurrect"? If she is a Cylon, as a clever poster mentioned earlier, her bones would not show up as being broken (her skeleton would be as pristine as her Viper).

LoneStar1836
April 6th, 2008, 02:01 PM
The teasers hint that the skinjobs are "lobotomizing" the Raiders, presumably to keep them in murderous form for the remaining Colonials, regardless of the danger that poses for the Final Five. The danger must be genuine (that is, the Five are not able to resurrect like the other skinjobs, or else, what's the real harm?).That's been my belief ever since they were revealed last season.

These guys are unique and once they die, that's it.


If Kara is not a Cylon, how did she "resurrect"? If she is a Cylon, as a clever poster mentioned earlier, her bones would not show up as being broken (her skeleton would be as pristine as her Viper).Stuff like that should show up in medical records. With as many fist fights as Kara has been in while in the military, she should have had plenty of reasons to have had her hands x-rayed at some point or another and thus be a point of comparison. If they wanted to make sure Kara wasn't a Cylon copy of the real Kara, you'd think Cottle would be extensive in his exam and pick up on that.

Andy_Actual
April 6th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Good point about the bells just before 6 appeared. I think that all stopped when Baltar appeared for 6 when she was in the cell and Tigh was having a go at her...might be wrong. I agree ENTIRELY with you regarding Baltar's motivations. He is SELFISH and his choosing to die wasn't anything to do with saving the boy (if he was, who was he trying to impress? A couple of strangers?) he was willing to die to selfishly escape his new and sh*t situation which is being hated by just about everyone except some fit women who seem to worship him!

Andy_Actual
April 6th, 2008, 04:00 PM
General theory: Bearing in mind that Tigh fought in the first cylon war and one could assume (before the final 4 were revealed) that skinjobs didn't exist in the first war, they actually did somehow. Was he the first model? He's the oldest of the 4 and the other three aren't even near 40 years old. If he was around in the first war - as a cylon skinjob - who made him? And knowing (from the Razor dvd) that a young Bill Adama stumbled upon a 'body factory' which was the cylons experimenting with making human-like models, again, HOW WAS TIGH A CYLON? His part in the first war isn't imagined, so what's up with that? During the revelation he even says to the other 3 something like, "40 years in the service, and now this". OK. 40 years ago, you were a cylon back then. HOW?? And at what point in history did the toasters 'get clever' and rebel? I know this is sounding like I'm taking this more seriously than a grown man should, but I am honestly FASCINATED by the storyline of BSG! AND I WANT ANSWERS! But I guess I'll have to wait, and every episode this season is going to be amazing because the writers will start to answer all of these questions for us!

A Clockwork Lime
April 6th, 2008, 04:43 PM
RE: Starbuck's journey to Earth.

It dawned on me while watching this episode again at the idea of following the Eye of Jupiter may be quite literal, but that the text is flawed. The Eye of Jupiter may be the other end of the wormhole/gateway/watever. Why do I think this? Because that's the point that Kara said she blacked out; after she passed a "gas giant with beautiful rings," aka Saturn. And Jupiter would be the next planet she encountered, of which there's angry "eye" in the form of a storm that's raged on for centuries for no apparent reason. What if that reason is that it's such a gateway?

RE: Tigh being a Cylon all these years.

You have to remember one of the themes of this show is that "this has all happened before and it will all happen again."

For some reason there has been a split amongst Cylon society. There was also no real reason for the Cylons to assault the Colonies. Why did they do it? Why were these Final Five all well-integrated into Colonial society? Why do all of them, the Chief in particular, worship the Twelve Lords of Kobol rather than the One True God?

Now ask yourself why were there only Twelve Lords of Kobol? Why were they each named for one of the twelve signs of the western zodiac of our culture? Why do they even know about Earth or how there would be roadsigns leading the way? Why doesn't Earth have its own Lord of Kobol?

What if Kobol wasn't the original home of the Colonists? What if they all came from Earth? What if Kobol was the original colony? What if those colonists had used some form of advanced AI to pilot their great ships across the starts while the colonists slumbered in cryogenic chambers? What if during that time, these AIs became truly sentient? What if they were the original Cylons who created their own orgranic bodies, and went on to lead these colonists after their arrival on Kobol?

Then what if one of these Cylons -- perhaps originally thirteen in number -- rebeled and became corrupted? What if he were ostricized to the stars? What if he loomed in the heavens for eons while Kobol blossomed into its golden age and faded into memory? What if he came upon the next evolution of Cylons after they had been ostricized from the new Colonies of Kobol? What if he posed as their One True God, preaching the evils of the Twelve Lords of Kobol? What if he were the Count Iblis of the new series? And what if he created/corrupted the Seven Models in his own image?

And what if the twelve Lords of Kobol didn't disappear over time? What if some of they chose to simply integrate themselves into colonial life, and over time simply forget or "programmed" themselves to forget so that they could do so freely? What if Tigh and the other Five are the last of those?

And let's say all of this is somewhere near accurate. What if the attack on the colonies had nothing to do with the colonists themselves, but "God" exacting revenge on the children of those that had ostricized him? What if it were a holy war to decimate the Final Five? What if the other Seven were programmed to never think about them so that they could complete God's will unquestionably? What if Cavil's lobotomizing of the Raiders is similiar to what "God" did to the seven?

And let's say some of the original colonists of Kobol knew their true origin? What if they decided to return to their home world, Earth? And what if God didn't know the way back because, say, he was only programmed to monitor the life signs of the colonists during their original exodus from Earth? What if, after learning of the Fleet and their goal, has chosen to persue them back to Earth so that he can get the revenge he so desprately craves? And what if those colonist returning to Earth knew of the existance of this thirteenth Lord of Kobol and set booby traps along the way? Such as, say, a satellite that functioned as a plague?

What if there really was a plan?

Pharaoh Atem
April 6th, 2008, 06:33 PM
the tigh moment in the CIC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rlziajZgiE

scorp76
April 6th, 2008, 08:36 PM
Did they ever mention that the original 5 were actually cylons just the original 5?

I mean if we were to follow the theory someone posted somewhere (don't where) about the last 5 are being actually Kobal Lords (or clones) that would explain why they are helping the colonials fight the cylons not to mention that's why they appear to be human and finally can influence the toasters since they were their original creations.

kNaSbOLL
April 6th, 2008, 11:09 PM
If Starbuck is the prophet should not she be dying as Roslin was? or is my english that bad that I cant understand the meaning of dying.

Agent_Dark
April 7th, 2008, 12:14 AM
If Starbuck is the prophet should not she be dying as Roslin was? or is my english that bad that I cant understand the meaning of dying.

who said that she isn't dying?

kNaSbOLL
April 7th, 2008, 12:23 AM
Ja jävlar.

kNaSbOLL
April 7th, 2008, 12:27 AM
who said that she isn't dying?

Thats my point to, that she is dying. She has been brought back from the dead, with visions just for the simple reason to bring them to Earth. When they go further and further away from Earth she is dying faster and faster.

Its nothing more with it if she is the prophet.

DarthNick
April 7th, 2008, 12:30 AM
A truly superb season opener. The CGI scenes where the best ever, Vipers and Raiders dodging each other within the fleet.... sweet.

The hole Baltar story line, interesting to follow but i hope to the gods that there not going to go JC on him.

The main reason Laura seems so hessitant is that i think see is afraid to loose control of the fleet/presidency now starbuck has come back with proof of earth (the photo's). perhaps kara will shoot Laura and Laura will download into a new body making her a Cylon as well, i dunno, but what i do know is that Adama should start lissening to Kara.

Can't wait to see the Cylon stuff next week!

BSG FTW!

dec55
April 7th, 2008, 06:19 AM
The big question is, will Athena get payback when she finds out about her new cylon friends....and give Chief and Tigh grief....:lol

My guess is that the final five will contact Athena first,just to get a sympathetic
ear from one who at least has an idea what they are going through.

lizzy4ever
April 7th, 2008, 08:56 AM
The only thing I have to reproach to this ep is that it's too short;)
After waiting so long, I wasn't disappointed, even if we have more questions than answers! I like the way things are never certain in BSG: I mean for a while we could have believed Laura was the prophet and that the fleet was in the right path to Earth, but now it's all put back in question with the return of Kara.

I can't wait to see more!

Trek_Girl42
April 7th, 2008, 09:17 AM
The big question is, will Athena get payback when she finds out about her new cylon friends....and give Chief and Tigh grief....:lol

My guess is that the final five will contact Athena first,just to get a sympathetic
ear from one who at least has an idea what they are going through.
If that happened, I bet she'd tell Adama- loyal to her uniform and all. What a scene that would be! :P Of course Adama would turn on her for accusing Tigh of being a cylon, but then Adama would take this conversation to Tigh, and Tigh being the loyal friend to the end would confess if to be true and then all hell would break loose..... :D

DOIKECARTER
April 7th, 2008, 09:32 AM
After watching "He That Believeth In Me," I have an idea on who the Fifth Cylon is:

I want to say Laura Roslin is the Fifth. I say this for a couple of reasons:

1) Just after they first enter the Ionian Nebula in Crossroads Part II, Laura clutch her head in pain. Much like the others where in pain over the music.

2) She was really quick to call Starbuck a Cylon trick.

3) Laura is a little too desperate to find out to find out if Starbuck is a Cylon, going so far as to ask Caprica Six.

4) She could have dismissed the music as an effect of the Chamalla.

5) Laura shared visons with the other two known Cylons on board.
It´s not really a spoiler, but as I´m making comments about what you´ve said:


Remember that photoshoot in EW? Ron Moore told the 10th cylon wasn´t there...and Laura is.
Besides, we´ve been told several times neither Adama nor Roslin are Cylons. I can´t remember where I read this one.

LoneStar1836
April 7th, 2008, 02:58 PM
It´s not really a spoiler, but as I´m making comments about what you´ve said:


Remember that photoshoot in EW? Ron Moore told the 10th cylon wasn´t there...and Laura is.
Besides, we´ve been told several times neither Adama nor Roslin are Cylons. I can´t remember where I read this one.
But you can't really trust what RDM says when it comes to this topic, imo.

After he went through such trouble last year trying to put out fake script pages, etc. for the reveal in Crossroads, I wouldn't put it past him to put out fake info on who the final one is or isn't.

I'm hoping it's not any of the remaining main characters like he says, but I wouldn't bet any money on it.:D

Trek_Girl42
April 7th, 2008, 03:14 PM
But you can't really trust what RDM says when it comes to this topic, imo.

After he went through such trouble last year trying to put out fake script pages, etc. for the reveal in Crossroads, I wouldn't put it past him to put out fake info on who the final one is or isn't.

I'm hoping it's not any of the remaining main characters like he says, but I wouldn't bet any money on it.:DNah. There's a huge difference between putting out fake pages and outright lying in an interview. Lying about it, saying a character isn't a cylon but they really are and it has been actually decided, is in my opinion just wrong and extremely disrespectful to the fans. (I'm sure RDM recognizes this) But there is of course a difference between lying and saying something two years ago, then deciding this year to go in that direction instead. Sly misdirection is fine, of course. Which is what I think false pages fall under- since they are there specifically to hinder the morons who feel they have to spoil everything by putting this stuff on the internet, from getting the correct material, and not the fans who are simply speculating.

I'd trust him on what he says about the Last Supper photo. He has stated it on two occasions, and it makes sense.

LoneStar1836
April 7th, 2008, 04:05 PM
Nah. There's a huge difference between putting out fake pages and outright lying in an interview. Lying about it, saying a character isn't a cylon but they really are and it has been actually decided, is in my opinion just wrong and extremely disrespectful to the fans. (I'm sure RDM recognizes this) But there is of course a difference between lying and saying something two years ago, then deciding this year to go in that direction instead. Sly misdirection is fine, of course. Which is what I think false pages fall under- since they are there specifically to hinder the morons who feel they have to spoil everything by putting this stuff on the internet, from getting the correct material, and not the fans who are simply speculating.

I'd trust him on what he says about the Last Supper photo. He has stated it on two occasions, and it makes sense.I understand what your saying and really do want to take his word for it (because like you said outright lying in an interview would be something that he shouldn't do out of respect for the fans), but I'm not 100% sold....maybe 95%. With as much crap as I have put up with from tptb of Stargate, I'm always a little leery.

entil2001
April 7th, 2008, 04:42 PM
It’s been nearly a year since the end of the third season, and after such a long wait, it shouldn’t be surprising that the audience would have high expectations. In fact, those expectations were nothing but heightened after the taste provided by “Razor” in November. It’s practically a given that this episode failed to meet those lofty desires, but that may prove to be a good thing.

For some, the third season finale was all about throwing everything and anything against the wall, seeing the patterns that formed when it congealed, and using that as the roadmap to the series’ conclusion. On the other hand, it also felt like a finale that was meant to shock the system, reinvigorating it towards the goal of a more frantic finish.

Three major items dominate this episode, all of them focusing on matters of faith. The Baltar situation is the most straightforward. Baltar finds himself among a small group of monotheists who consider him to be a prophet, even a savior. The fact that they are mostly young, attractive women does not escape his notice, and does take advantage of his new opportunities. Yet very quickly, his perspective turns more serious.

Baltar is brought a young child with a deadly illness, in the hopes that his prayers might save him. This leads him to a rare moment of honest self-reflection. He admits his own failing, his own weaknesses, and offers himself in place of the boy. It’s not something that Baltar would have done in the beginning of the series. Shortly thereafter, during an attempt on his life, he is ready and willing to die in payment for his sins. Part of that is self-pity and guilt, but it does make one wonder if Baltar might become someone worthy of the adoration his harem provides. (Though I could easily see his most violent protector becoming a problem before much longer.)

Second, we have the situation with the four newly revealed Cylons. All of them are in a position of trust within the fleet, and in the face of Kara’s return, none of them are suspected. Ironically, Anders effectively saves the fleet when a Raider seems to scan and recognize him. (This brings up an interesting point; are the more “primitive” Raiders more aware of the hidden Five than the humaniform models?). Tigh and Tyrol both reaffirm their own humanity on a constant basis, even as they all fear taking action against their apparent WILL.

What makes this interesting is the callback to the first season, when Boomer was caught between suspicions about her true nature, her programming, and her humanity. Not only does the audience know that she failed to overcome that programming, but we’ve seen Athena successfully chart her own course (at least, it appears to be so). Now we have the same situation but amplified by a factor of four, and with a more profound effect on the Cylons themselves.

The third and final aspect is directly related to Kara Thrace and her return from apparent death. Clearly she wants Adama to believe in her, but pragmatism is getting in the way. Also, the circumstances of her return are questionable at best, and given justified fleet paranoia, grounds for exactly the treatment she’s given. In her nearly-religious assurance, she’s completely dismissing everyone else’s perspective.

Which is not to say that she’s wrong, because it’s far more interesting if she’s absolutely right. Kara’s bloodhound psychic alarms are remarkably similar to Roslin’s reaction upon the fleet’s arrival in the Ionian Nebula. Roslin’s reaction was preceded by visions shared with Caprica Six. One could speculate that the “activation” of the four of the Final Five at the exact same time was a meaningful correlation.

In my comments for “Razor”, I noted that the prophesies regarding Kara Thrace and her role in the destruction of Humanity may have been easily misinterpreted. What if Kara is meant to bring about the end of both the Human and Cylon races as they are, by bringing them together based on a common legacy? After all, in “Eye of Jupiter” and “Rapture”, the Temple of Five was built by Humans over 4000 years earlier.

One theory I’ve had for some time is that every “cycle” of the story begins with Human and Cylon separate and at war, and ends with the two races merging into one species. They recover to the point of sending out colonists. The colonists struggle to find their own identity while the “originals” continue to evolve. The colonists are seeded with the genetic material necessary to survive the next cycle, while the “originals” help both of their “children” to find their way.

So by this theory, the Final Five are not constructed Cylons in the sense of the seven humaniform models, but rather, genetic Cylons: Humans embedded with ancient Cylon DNA. Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Tori would not have false memories of their lives because they truly lived them. They are Human, but a part of them is also Cylon.

Also by this theory, Kara would have been saved by the previous cycle’s “humans”, those now on Earth, so she could lead the fleet home. They would have been able to give her a new Viper and the sense of where to lead the fleet. It’s possible that Roslin is equally “attuned” because of her use of the kamalla drug. On the other side of the equation, the Cylons may also be following such instructions through the guidance of the “hybrids” and Cylons like D’Anna and Caprica Six.

Of course, all of that speculation may be wrong, and that is the allure of the final season. This is the season where the answers should finally be forthcoming (albeit in chunks, thanks to the writers’ strike and Sci-Fi Channel scheduling), and there will certainly be unexpected twists and turns. However, I do feel that the foundation has been laid in the previous seasons, and it all comes down to a matter of context. This episode is just the first step in that process.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2008
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

Trek_Girl42
April 7th, 2008, 05:25 PM
I understand what your saying and really do want to take his word for it (because like you said outright lying in an interview would be something that he shouldn't do out of respect for the fans), but I'm not 100% sold....maybe 95%. With as much crap as I have put up with from tptb of Stargate, I'm always a little leery.
Yeah.....the Stargate ptb are in a whole different universe.....so to speak. I never want to read any interviews with any of them because they just - for some bizarre reason - seem to throw pretty much the whole plot out there, which is disappointing to see. :( Ron Moore has earned my trust and respect over the past four years, so I'll believe him. He's always been very respectful of fandom- not too involved and not too distant, very impressive. :)

trombonist15
April 7th, 2008, 08:47 PM
I stood up and screamed when the fleet got hit by Cylon missiles. That was a really tense scene.

Skydiver
April 8th, 2008, 04:30 AM
i think the sam eye thing - and maybe someone has already said this, i'm not going to read every post - remember when, maybe it was in the preview at the end, we see callas???? (dean stockwell's cylon) and the woman says 'stop lobotomizing the raiders'....i thnk that the raiders won't kill thier own kind, and calfas???? was 'fixing' that because i think he wants to kill off his fellow cylons.

i think he's close to the head of the 'rebellion',...or maybe he's the stalwart of the conservative side and six is the 'leader' of the 'humans aren't all bad' rebellion.

he wants to kill off all the non-believer cylons and they don't, and the raiders are on 'their side' so to speak

i think the humans are going to have front row seats to a 'great cylon rebellion'

Integrabyte
April 8th, 2008, 09:26 AM
i think the humans are going to have front row seats to a 'great cylon rebellion'

Wonder how many will get tickets :P. From what I see, Saul and the other Cylons aboard the Galactica are bound to do something :). Saul shooting Bill was very interesting ;). Not the first time when a Cylon does that tho :P.

LoneStar1836
April 8th, 2008, 09:45 AM
i think the sam eye thing - and maybe someone has already said this, i'm not going to read every post - remember when, maybe it was in the preview at the end, we see callas???? (dean stockwell's cylon) and the woman says 'stop lobotomizing the raiders'....i thnk that the raiders won't kill thier own kind, and calfas???? was 'fixing' that because i think he wants to kill off his fellow cylons.

i think he's close to the head of the 'rebellion',...or maybe he's the stalwart of the conservative side and six is the 'leader' of the 'humans aren't all bad' rebellion.

he wants to kill off all the non-believer cylons and they don't, and the raiders are on 'their side' so to speak

i think the humans are going to have front row seats to a 'great cylon rebellion'As in non-believers in the one true "god"? Or is that all those who don't despise the humans?

Remember to take into account that Brother Caval is an atheist. Or that is the attitude that he gives off as well as RDM mentioning in one of the season 3 podcasts that Caval was an atheist.


I do agree that a rebellion has been brewing and is going to come to a boil this season.

Lady Snow
April 8th, 2008, 09:59 AM
Remember to take into account that Brother Caval is an atheist. Or that is the attitude that he gives off as well as RDM mentioning in one of the season 3 podcasts that Caval was an atheist.


He does more than give off an attitude: he flat-out says "There is no God" ("LDYB, II"). So yes, I consider him to be a front-runner for any sort of anti-religious movement within the Cylon fleet; I can see the Fives and the "Simons" following him, and maybe some of the Eights, but we have to figure that any religious movement is going to include the "Leobens" and the Sixes... and the boxed Threes.

LoneStar1836
April 8th, 2008, 10:04 AM
He does more than give off an attitude: he flat-out says "There is no God" ("LDYB, II"). So yes, I consider him to be a front-runner for any sort of anti-religious movement within the Cylon fleet; I can see the Fives and the "Simons" following him, and maybe some of the Eights, but we have to figure that any religious movement is going to include the "Leobens" and the Sixes... and the boxed Threes.Forgot about that. I was always amused with how he liked to use air quotes when he referred to the Cylon god.

I agree with your split and who would probably go with who.

Dezdmona
April 8th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Don't know if this has been posted here, but considering the division that has been brewing between the Cylons, it seems appropriate to take a look at it.
In the DVD version of Razor the first Hybrid has a lengthy monologue that is prophetic foreshadowing:

At last, they’ve come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the Promised Land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

And, who is "her"?

pynapl
April 8th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Don't know if this has been posted here, but considering the division that has been brewing between the Cylons, it seems appropriate to take a look at it.
In the DVD version of Razor the first Hybrid has a lengthy monologue that is prophetic foreshadowing:

At last, they’ve come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the Promised Land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

And, who is "her"?

I think "her" is: Kara. Anders finds Kara. By this point they essentially are enemies.

Although I'm probably wrong about that. Trying to get my thoughts straight about that (totally awesome) monologue makes my head hurt... :S

Skydiver
April 9th, 2008, 03:58 AM
i thnk

the four galactica cylons will be 'too human' to follow thier programmed directives. and they'll help the humans escape the others, the six's and lehbon's and caval's etc who all think they are 'without sin' and are trying to kil the humans.

the irony will be, love and understanding and faith will make the machines human and the six 'bad' ones, in trying to wipe out humanity, are really destroying the very thing that would allow them to become human

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 07:05 AM
apparently Baltar didn't take long to make himself at home with his new harem friends hehe...

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 07:11 AM
btw they were wrong about Boomer, she did resist her programming/conditioning, to some extent. it's surprising no one else has noticed this so far

gravityStar
April 9th, 2008, 10:05 AM
-the thing that bothers me... currently stationed randomly up to the heads of whoever that were killed in the attacks, how did tigh, boomer and chief end up stationed on the same ship, the "only 1" that happened to survive the attacks? not to mention, if the 5th has been a galatica member all along thats still 4! then just so happens that sam and the other guy (tour guide from the start), ended up on that same ship as well?... i mean pegasus had 1.. why did galactica end up with 5. (id include deanna, 6, and leoben.. but they coulda been placed in the surviving fleet during some time of confusion)... just crazy random odds wouldnt ya think?

If you remember the mini-series, there was a cylon-transponder attached to the bottom of the dradis-display in CIC. Galactica surviving the attack was never an accident.


General theory: Bearing in mind that Tigh fought in the first cylon war --8<--SNIP----
I do not believe it has ever been shown in this show that Tigh served during the first Cylon war. I could be wrong, and invite you to point me to the correct episode for this. All indications are that some parts of his service record are forged. It is all just part of his cover story.

Mongoletsi
April 9th, 2008, 01:56 PM
If you remember the mini-series, there was a cylon-transponder attached to the bottom of the dradis-display in CIC. Galactica surviving the attack was never an accident.
That's a seriously good point. I'd never actually considered that before.


I do not believe it has ever been shown in this show that Tigh served during the first Cylon war. I could be wrong, and invite you to point me to the correct episode for this. All indications are that some parts of his service record are forged. It is all just part of his cover story.
No, he definitely served in the first war mate. He's spoken about being boarded in the 1st war and fought hand-to-hand when they got boarded. He mentioned the name to Adama once - I think it was famous for a bad defeat.

Jeffala
April 9th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Another thing to consider is that Tigh and Adama have been friends for over twenty years. They Cylon "God"'s plan, whatever it is, has been in the works for decades.

SoulReaver
April 9th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Galactica surviving the attack was never an accident.then why did the cylons keep trying to destroy it ever after ? :confused:

Mongoletsi
April 9th, 2008, 02:17 PM
then why did the cylons keep trying to destroy it ever after ? :confused:
I was about to say "eeeeexactly" and point out I was being sarcastic above. However, what if it was "God's" will that Galactica survive the attack. We're assuming the Cylon "God" had no say in the initial attack.

But no, the regular Cylons must've put the thing there as part of the attack - it may have served some function in the run-up. Presumably they knew Galactica's system's weren't networked.

gravityStar
April 9th, 2008, 02:52 PM
No, he definitely served in the first war mate. He's spoken about being boarded in the 1st war and fought hand-to-hand when they got boarded. He mentioned the name to Adama once - I think it was famous for a bad defeat.
I know that's what he says, and what he believes. It is not necessarily true.
Adama and Tigh first meet on a freighter after the war. There is nobody left alive who knows about what Saul Tigh did before those two met. Hell, Adama and Tigh met before Saul met Ellen.

P-90_177
April 9th, 2008, 09:17 PM
btw they were wrong about Boomer, she did resist her programming/conditioning, to some extent. it's surprising no one else has noticed this so far

Well yes but that only got her so far in the end. She couldn't resist shooting the old man. Besides the others still don't know what she did before the moment when she shot him. Likewise they have no idea that she was struggleing with the knowledge that she was a cylon. As far as everyone is concerned Boomer was just a cylon sleeper agent and she had no idea that she was one until she shot adama.

Apollux
April 9th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Don't know if this has been posted here, but considering the division that has been brewing between the Cylons, it seems appropriate to take a look at it.
In the DVD version of Razor the first Hybrid has a lengthy monologue that is prophetic foreshadowing:

At last, they’ve come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the Promised Land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

And, who is "her"?

Well, that´s the mother of all Spoilers !!! (and one I actually believe true).

gioia
April 10th, 2008, 02:05 AM
Welcome back my dear friend. I've really missed you.

It was wickedly cool. Superb stuff for a season premier. Love the Adama's scene- I think they're really going to directin oflee for president.

the opening battle scenes were awesome. It was the first time a battle scene amazed me after the Revenge of Sith.

SoulReaver
April 10th, 2008, 10:01 AM
Well yes but that only got her so far in the end. She couldn't resist shooting the old man. no no it's the shooting I was talking about - she did shoot him but even then she resisted her conditioning

remember she was suppsoed to kill Adama, and she fired @ point blank range - why didn't she simply put a bullet between his 2 eyes ? instead she shot him twice causing serious but not lethal injuries, the only explanation is that she was able to resist the "kill Adama" directive to some extent

SoulReaver
April 10th, 2008, 10:03 AM
I was about to say "eeeeexactly" and point out I was being sarcastic above. However, what if it was "God's" will that Galactica survive the attack. aye tnat's possible - this ain't "pure sci-fi" after all

Andy_Actual
April 10th, 2008, 03:37 PM
It was wickedly cool. Superb stuff for a season premier. Love the Adama's scene- I think they're really going to direction oflee for president.

I think that we're definitely going to see Lee take a crucial role as a civilian. I wouldn't be surprised if the Adamas become a team (one military, one government) to overpower whoever is the problem maker (I'm almost convinced that will turn out to be Roslin). I think they might make things difficult further still by having Bill and Roslin 'get it on' so that the old man is in love with her, and then they'll be some episode down the road where he must shoot her to save someone close to him, and it'll be very difficult for him. Hopefully not lame though. Can't wait to see the cylons break apart into bickering factions! Looks like a toaster is ordered to shoot up the cylon CIC in the promo! It's gonna be good! :)

Platschu
April 12th, 2008, 11:02 PM
Adama's death was so shocking. Wow. What a scene!

Bray
April 18th, 2008, 12:19 AM
I was pretty tired when I watched it last night, but does anyone else feel they are kinda loosing it?

I hope they explain some things in the next few episodes but it was just so confusing last night.

I did see the whole Cylon 'civil war' coming though as soon as they said dumb down the raiders I thought, this is how the cylon war against the humans started because the humans tried to control what the cylons could know.

I do like that story line, when did the president get her cancer back? I can't remember that resurfacing

LoneStar1836
April 18th, 2008, 07:54 AM
I do like that story line, when did the president get her cancer back? I can't remember that resurfacingLast episode of season 3 during Baltar's trial. It was revealed that her cancer was back when Lee questioned her.

Bray
April 21st, 2008, 02:36 AM
Ah it would have been helpful to have seen the last 2 or 3 episodes before season 4 aired.

I had completely forgot about the trial.

Pic
April 24th, 2008, 05:38 AM
Ah it would have been helpful to have seen the last 2 or 3 episodes before season 4 aired.

I had completely forgot about the trial.

So, there's an up-side to not having cable? Since the DVD's were just released recently, it's all fresh for me. In fact, I had to scramble to see s3 in time for the premier.
I can't imagine a year wait.
I'm just so happy it's being streamed (legally) on scifi.com

Lady Snow
April 24th, 2008, 09:30 AM
I know that's what he says, and what he believes. It is not necessarily true.
Adama and Tigh first meet on a freighter after the war. There is nobody left alive who knows about what Saul Tigh did before those two met. Hell, Adama and Tigh met before Saul met Ellen.

But Adama somehow knows how well Tigh flies a Viper (Miniseries, discussing Kara). Is this from rumor? Hearsay? Or did he actually get his hands on Tigh's service records?

I know not. But it's fun to speculate. :)

daniel9
May 5th, 2008, 01:02 PM
podcast is finalllly up