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Daniel Jackson
April 3rd, 2008, 12:00 PM
I like Woolsey as a recurring guest star representative of the IOA, but... most of his appearances (if not all) feature him making catastrophic decissions with SG-1 or Sheppard's team having to clean up the mess. Why on Earth is he being added to the main cast, and why as the Atlantis Expedition leader? I've nothing against Picardo, it's just... it's like putting Kinsey or Maybourne in charge. :S

Madeleine
April 3rd, 2008, 12:02 PM
Much Drama stems from problems and conflicts and danger. Woolsey will provide all three ;)

Daniel Jackson
April 3rd, 2008, 12:05 PM
I agree, but isn't that why they use the Stargate to go off world so problems, conflicts, and danger can... gee... happen off world or follow them back to Atlantis? It makes no sense to bring in a new leader who's purpose is to cause problems. That's just stupid. Why put someone in leadership who's demonstrated that he has no leadership skills at all? I'm all for bringing Woolsey to Atlantis as a regular, but... I just feel the role he has is completely wrong for the character.

Briangate78
April 3rd, 2008, 12:09 PM
Much Drama stems from problems and conflicts and danger. Woolsey will provide all three ;)

^^ What she said. :)

Daniel Jackson
April 3rd, 2008, 12:10 PM
See my above post in response to what he said. I'm curious as to what ya'll have to say in response. :)

Falcon Horus
April 3rd, 2008, 12:12 PM
Much Drama stems from problems and conflicts and danger. Woolsey will provide all three ;)

And you really think we will get to see that... with the current show runners, who said the same about Carter... There would be friction and conflict... mmm... didn't see it then... probably not going to see it with Woolsey.

Pandora's_Box
April 3rd, 2008, 12:12 PM
Rodney McKay's first appearance on SG-1 was the episode '48 hours' wherein his only purpose was to be an extreme character foil for Carter. He was arrogant, condescending, brash. He was a veritable a**hole to her and treated her with extreme disrespect. On top of that, he was very, very wrong about the situation he was brought in to 'help' fix.

His next appearance in the season 6 (I think) season premiere 2-parter redeemed him a little but he didn't really serve more of a purpose than the first time.

TPTB on any show make a habit of using guest characters and sometimes recurring characters (obviously with some exception like Zelenka and Lorne) to bolster the main characters' credibility and abiitities as soldiers, scientists, what-have-you.

Personally, I love Woolsey and Robert Picardo and I think his addition to the cast as Commander of Atlantis will bring up some very interesting topics for the show to discuss.

From what we know of him, he is a man very used to following the rules and doing everything by the book. But we've also seen that he willing to omit certain facts from reports and keep certain things from the IOA because he does realize that the IOA does not in fact want or need to know everything.

I'm interested to see how he balances his duties and responsibilities to Atlantis and Pegasus with his loyalty to the IOA.

This should make for a very interesting season 5.

Naonak
April 3rd, 2008, 12:18 PM
I like Woolsey as a recurring guest star representative of the IOA, but... most of his appearances (if not all) feature him making catastrophic decissions with SG-1 or Sheppard's team having to clean up the mess. Why on Earth is he being added to the main cast, and why as the Atlantis Expedition leader? I've nothing against Picardo, it's just... it's like putting Kinsey or Maybourne in charge. :S
Are you asking why the producers are doing it, or why the IOA are doing it?

I would think the producers are doing it because they think that the character (and actor) can bring something to the show, and the IOA are doing it because they're a bunch of moronic, control-freak bureaucrats...

Daniel Jackson
April 3rd, 2008, 12:19 PM
Personally, I love Woolsey and Robert Picardo and I think his addition to the cast as Commander of Atlantis will bring up some very interesting topics for the show to discuss.
What makes you think he'd make a good leader? Have we seen a single episode where his decissions didn't backfire? The only one I can think of is SG-1 "Inauguration" when he learnes that Kinsey was the wrong man to ally with.


From what we know of him, he is a man very used to following the rules and doing everything by the book. But we've also seen that he willing to omit certain facts from reports and keep certain things from the IOA because he does realize that the IOA does not in fact want or need to know everything.
How does doing everything by the book and occasionally omitting stuff from reports make someone a good leader? What does any of that have to do with leadership?


Are you asking why the producers are doing it, or why the IOA are doing it?
I'm asking why the producers are doing it. The IOA want an opperative in Atlantis, so choosing their own leader is their tream come true.


I would think the producers are doing it because they think that the character (and actor) can bring something to the show
I understand that much. What I don't understand is why they think Woolsey will make a good leader when all previous appearances have shown that he's not?

Briangate78
April 3rd, 2008, 12:23 PM
Are you asking why the producers are doing it, or why the IOA are doing it?

I would think the producers are doing it because they think that the character (and actor) can bring something to the show, and the IOA are doing it because they're a bunch of moronic, control-freak bureaucrats...

I think Woolsey brought to the show, and made it more interesting. It's like everytime I saw Richard Woolsey in the credits, I said to myself it will be an interesting episode with some conflict. I personally want to see him being an @ss in the beginning and then becoming softer and then eventually respected by the Atlantis team.

We did not get that with Carter. She came on, did her job, and did not have conflict or drama with the other team members. I missed that. Season one with Weir and Sheppard struck a lot of conflict. I also loved how everytime the military would try to push Weir aside she was strong and made it known that she is important and in charge.

Falcon Horus
April 3rd, 2008, 12:24 PM
...and the IOA are doing it because they're a bunch of moronic, control-freak bureaucrats...

We call them Vogons. And proceed with caution when they want to read their poetry to you.

Naonak
April 3rd, 2008, 12:25 PM
I understand that much. What I don't understand is why they think Woolsey will make a good leader when all previous appearances have shown that he's not?
Who says they do?

(If they have, feel free to correct me... ;))

We call them Vogons. And proceed with caution when they want to read their poetry to you.
Ah, random Hitch-Hiker's Guide references... Always good. :D ;)

Madeleine
April 3rd, 2008, 12:36 PM
I agree, but isn't that why they use the Stargate to go off world so problems, conflicts, and danger can... gee... happen off world or follow them back to Atlantis? It makes no sense to bring in a new leader who's purpose is to cause problems. That's just stupid. Why put someone in leadership who's demonstrated that he has no leadership skills at all? I'm all for bringing Woolsey to Atlantis as a regular, but... I just feel the role he has is completely wrong for the character.

Agreed, the role is wrong for the character. But whereas before whenever I've said that I've simply been disagreeing with TPTB, I am pretty sure that TPTB themselves see Woolsey as not heroic-leader material, and so will make something out of that.

Yes, they can easilly make all the drama they want from the Stargate trips, but a trip through the gate can be even more dramatic for a team who don't know if their base will support them as they should....

Anyway, it could all end up being a mess, but it doesn't have to. I'm in wait-and-see mode, with positive leanings since I enjoyed s4.

Pandora's_Box
April 3rd, 2008, 12:38 PM
What makes you think he'd make a good leader? Have we seen a single episode where his decissions didn't backfire? The only one I can think of is SG-1 "Inauguration" when he learnes that Kinsey was the wrong man to ally with.


How does doing everything by the book and occasionally omitting stuff from reports make someone a good leader? What does any of that have to do with leadership?


I'm asking why the producers are doing it. The IOA want an opperative in Atlantis, so choosing their own leader is their tream come true.


I understand that much. What I don't understand is why they think Woolsey will make a good leader when all previous appearances have shown that he's not?

I never said I thought he would make a good leader because as you pointed out, we haven't seen enough of him to come to that conclusion.

My main point was that what we do know of him has been in the capacity of a recurring star and I mentioned my ideas on why those characters are brought onto a show.

I did say, however, that his addition will be an interesting one and I think people should keep their minds open to the possibility that one TPTB begin to develop the character, we might be surprised by what we learn about Woolsey.

I reiterate this point, because I think it's very important, we have ONLY seen him in the capacity of guest star. Before seeing McKay on SGA I have to admit that although I liked seeing a completely irreverant scientist standing up to Carter, I didn't like the character. Nor do I think anybody could have envisioned that he would become such a well-developed and much-loved character on SGA.

I'm just saying keep an open mind. Don't go in with negativity and expectations of crash-and-burn failure. It's not fair to the show, the writers, or Picardo.

Madeleine
April 3rd, 2008, 12:39 PM
And you really think we will get to see that... with the current show runners, who said the same about Carter... There would be friction and conflict... mmm... didn't see it then... probably not going to see it with Woolsey.

Did they say that with Carter?

But they never did much conflict with Carter and anyone-not-a-villain/fool. Carter argued with Maybourne, Kinsey, Woolsey, that general in Chain of Command.... The only 'good guy' she does conflict with has been Rodney, and as a character he was brought in in 48 Hours specifically to wind her up.

Woolsey on the other hand gets to argue with allcomers. I reckon we're reasonably likely to get some real conflict of some degree or other.

Falcon Horus
April 3rd, 2008, 12:41 PM
...once TPTB begin to develop the character, we might be surprised by what we learn about Woolsey.

*chokes on her Evian* ... and not in a good way...

Pandora's_Box
April 3rd, 2008, 12:52 PM
*chokes on her Evian* ... and not in a good way...

There, there. It's okay. You might even find him bearable.

Don't die of shock please, all you unbelievers. :D

rens14
April 3rd, 2008, 12:53 PM
Agreed, the role is wrong for the character.
I don't really see woolsey as a leader but I had the same with sam and she made a good leader so just wait and see before saying negative things

Briangate78
April 3rd, 2008, 12:58 PM
Did they say that with Carter?

But they never did much conflict with Carter and anyone-not-a-villain/fool. Carter argued with Maybourne, Kinsey, Woolsey, that general in Chain of Command.... The only 'good guy' she does conflict with has been Rodney, and as a character he was brought in in 48 Hours specifically to wind her up.

Woolsey on the other hand gets to argue with allcomers. I reckon we're reasonably likely to get some real conflict of some degree or other.

Actually, they did not. All they said was that Carter was going to chew out an officer, and that was Ellis. In fact, she had no conflinct at all. There was a little in "The Kindred" when she was questioning the ambush and Carson's loyalties.

Madeleine
April 3rd, 2008, 02:07 PM
I don't really see woolsey as a leader but I had the same with sam and she made a good leader so just wait and see before saying negative things

I wans't saying anything negative! I don't think Woolsey will make a good leader, but I think that might be good for the show.

I think a few pillocks and jobsworths and baddies are good for a show. Perfect people are more likely to be boring people ;)

Skydiver
April 3rd, 2008, 02:13 PM
my personal opinion????

amanda left, thus leaving a void in the area of 'city administrator'

tptb had worked with picardo before and like him both as an actor and as a person. so when the opportunity came up to use a familiar face that they all liked to work with to fil a void, they decided to make woolsey the new boss.

How well will they handle it? i dunno. my biggest issues with woolsey stem from him being the perennial 'well meaning but ineffectual burocratic blunderer' who is often little more than a plot device to prove that our heros are usually right and the 'suits' are usually wrong

so it'll be interesting how they make a character that's been so plagued by being 'bad/making poor decisions' into the role of a leader. Because, to this point, he's never been a leader. he's just been a middle man fulfilling the orders of others

Falcon Horus
April 3rd, 2008, 02:14 PM
You might even find him bearable.

Oh, it's not that I don't find him unbearable... I find him to be hilariously stupid and beaurocratic in all his glories.

It's the part where he will be developed that has me going ... Yeah right!

Pandora's_Box
April 3rd, 2008, 02:30 PM
Oh, it's not that I don't find him unbearable... I find him to be hilariously stupid and beaurocratic in all his glories.

It's the part where he will be developed that has me going ... Yeah right!

Good.Point.

Why start with him?

I can hope.....right?

Falcon Horus
April 3rd, 2008, 02:33 PM
I can hope.....right?

You can.

But I won't.

Linzi
April 3rd, 2008, 02:53 PM
Hmmmm. I think that Woolsey was added simply because AT left, as Sky said. TPTB needed to fill the void. They looked at their choices. RP is a damn good actor, (IMO), TPTB obviously like him personally and he is well known in the scifi world - Star Trek has loyal fans and maybe RP will bring in some viewers?

Now, what does that all mean? Well, I'm hopeful it will mean some conflict. Conflict, for me = drama = entertainment = lessons learned for the characters. Will this happen? Who knows.

I liked Carter as leader. Thought she was a great addition to the cast, if under utilised at times. I'd like to have seen her again, in season 5, with more stories and more interaction with the cast. It wasn't to be, sadly. But that was AT's choice because new and different opportunities opened up for her. :)


The good news for me, is the fact the RP is an actor I like and respect. Yes, Woolsey can be mightily irritating, but up to now, he's rather served as a plot device, rather like McKay did in SG1, ( as others have mentioned already). So, I'm hopeful he'll initially be a complete pain in the butt to the team, but that he'll mellow, support the team loyally and that I'll come to love him. That's my hope, and only time will tell. I do enjoy conflict though! ;) :)

Raddo
April 3rd, 2008, 03:15 PM
Rodney McKay's first appearance on SG-1 was the episode '48 hours' wherein his only purpose was to be an extreme character foil for Carter. He was arrogant, condescending, brash. He was a veritable a**hole to her and treated her with extreme disrespect. On top of that, he was very, very wrong about the situation he was brought in to 'help' fix.

His next appearance in the season 6 (I think) season premiere 2-parter redeemed him a little but he didn't really serve more of a purpose than the first time.

TPTB on any show make a habit of using guest characters and sometimes recurring characters (obviously with some exception like Zelenka and Lorne) to bolster the main characters' credibility and abiitities as soldiers, scientists, what-have-you.

Personally, I love Woolsey and Robert Picardo and I think his addition to the cast as Commander of Atlantis will bring up some very interesting topics for the show to discuss.

From what we know of him, he is a man very used to following the rules and doing everything by the book. But we've also seen that he willing to omit certain facts from reports and keep certain things from the IOA because he does realize that the IOA does not in fact want or need to know everything.

I'm interested to see how he balances his duties and responsibilities to Atlantis and Pegasus with his loyalty to the IOA.

This should make for a very interesting season 5.


Yes I agree that they have hinted Woolsey is changing - playing the game a little bit. I think that is an interesting point that maybe a good arch for his character is to see him conflicted between his loyalty between The Atlantis team and the IOA.

Will he form the "these are my people and I will defend their honour?" or will he be like an outsider looking in mistrusted by the others. You can draw comparisons to the Jonas Quinn and Jack O'Neill story line where you see main characters from the good guys with conflict between each other (ie Jack O'Neill's dislike for Jonas and his eventual respect for Jonas over the course of the season (or was it???)) That would provide for a different type of story which can only be good for us veiwers!!

Will he be "audited" by an IOA colleague? how will that go will the team support him?

It might be good to see a Commander that was not just an all round good person, great motivater, tactician, stratagist ect. like Hammond:hammond:, O'Neill:jack:, Weir(?):weir: Landry, Carter:sam:.

Some interesting stories to come I suspect

ps I move a motion for a Woolsey smilie (and a Landry one)

jelgate
April 3rd, 2008, 03:48 PM
Adding Woosley was a controversal decision. Their is a fine line of using his character. You want to continue to make him a pain in the mikta but not nearly as much as the past. He should kind of mirror McKay's growth on Atlantis. In the end this move will really help or really hurt Atlantis

Buck32
April 3rd, 2008, 05:18 PM
Rodney McKay's first appearance on SG-1 was the episode '48 hours' wherein his only purpose was to be an extreme character foil for Carter. He was arrogant, condescending, brash. He was a veritable a**hole to her and treated her with extreme disrespect. On top of that, he was very, very wrong about the situation he was brought in to 'help' fix.

His next appearance in the season 6 (I think) season premiere 2-parter redeemed him a little but he didn't really serve more of a purpose than the first time.

TPTB on any show make a habit of using guest characters and sometimes recurring characters (obviously with some exception like Zelenka and Lorne) to bolster the main characters' credibility and abiitities as soldiers, scientists, what-have-you.

Personally, I love Woolsey and Robert Picardo and I think his addition to the cast as Commander of Atlantis will bring up some very interesting topics for the show to discuss.

From what we know of him, he is a man very used to following the rules and doing everything by the book. But we've also seen that he willing to omit certain facts from reports and keep certain things from the IOA because he does realize that the IOA does not in fact want or need to know everything.

I'm interested to see how he balances his duties and responsibilities to Atlantis and Pegasus with his loyalty to the IOA.

This should make for a very interesting season 5.


What they said!!!

prion
April 4th, 2008, 09:49 AM
Adding Woosley was a controversal decision. Their is a fine line of using his character. You want to continue to make him a pain in the mikta but not nearly as much as the past. He should kind of mirror McKay's growth on Atlantis. In the end this move will really help or really hurt Atlantis

Woolsey is probably the best choice. Unfortunately they killed Elizabeth, so she can't come back, and Carter was (dodging flames) so nice that there was no conflict and it was boring. Hopefully the writers will have a better handle on Woolsey than they did on Carter and provide some conflict, because Woolsey isn't military - he works for bureaucrats. If he's in charge, will he say "shoot down that ship" and Shep has no recourse but to follow orders and then oops, blew up wrong ship?

Briangate78
April 4th, 2008, 10:45 AM
Woolsey is probably the best choice. Unfortunately they killed Elizabeth, so she can't come back, and Carter was (dodging flames) so nice that there was no conflict and it was boring. Hopefully the writers will have a better handle on Woolsey than they did on Carter and provide some conflict, because Woolsey isn't military - he works for bureaucrats. If he's in charge, will he say "shoot down that ship" and Shep has no recourse but to follow orders and then oops, blew up wrong ship?

Conflict? Yup! Watch eps like "Hot Zone" That is Conflict that I missed. Weir was great with sticking it to the military and being that thorn in their side. I want to see Woolsey be like that, and I think he could be. It is just going to create a lot more drama. Carter like you said was too nice, and well they respected her because she was a member of SG-1 for so many years. I mean she is "The" Samantha Carter! :p

jasminaGo
April 4th, 2008, 11:11 AM
To create a conflict with Sam and the other characters on Atlantis was immposible. She had too much of a back story to suddenly walk in and start acting like she owns the place and argue with everyone.

With Woolsey it would be easy. It's what he always does. And that's what has been a problem for me in the past. He makes a bad decision, the lead characters prove him wrong, and it looks like he's learned a lesson. Inauguration, Prototype, The scourge. But then they bring him back the next time they need conflict and it's like he has a reset button, doesn't remember what happened the last time and makes the same mistakes again.

I'm sure there will be development for him in S5 and he'll prove to be a good leader in time, but with what we've seen so far he souldn't be let near any command position.

ToasterOnFire
April 4th, 2008, 11:50 AM
As it stands, Woolsey is not qualified to lead Atlantis. The canon reason he was brought on will probably be because the IOA forces him in so they can control the city or somesuch.

Woolsey will probably require screentime to develop him from a PITA into a capable leader. Which is great and all, except TPTB have repeatedly stated that the leader of Atlantis is meant to be more of a minor role like Hammond, much like what they did with Carter in s4. I'm pretty confident that Woolsey will have more screentime and lines than Carter did in s4. It will be interesting (but in no way surprising) to see if TPTB alter their own guidelines to fit the situation.

I have zero interest in Woolsey, and it's the major reason why I've lost interest in the upcoming season.

Teslan
April 4th, 2008, 12:12 PM
The argument against the reset button thing, is that these types take a while to get it through their heads. Look at Kinsey in SG-1. Always causing trouble for these guys even though they seemed to have some idea of what they are doing.

But I agree he is going to have to eventually start to understand that while the Atlantis team takes a lot of risks, and some of them over-the-top, they have been doing it long enough to minimize the damage. Which is all you can really ask for in their particular situation.

Mitchell82
April 4th, 2008, 02:44 PM
And you really think we will get to see that... with the current show runners, who said the same about Carter... There would be friction and conflict... mmm... didn't see it then... probably not going to see it with Woolsey.

I disagree. I think we will. As to adding him to the main cast well all base commanders (Sg-1 and SGA) always have been.

SGLAB
April 5th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Rodney McKay's first appearance on SG-1 was the episode '48 hours' wherein his only purpose was to be an extreme character foil for Carter. He was arrogant, condescending, brash. He was a veritable a**hole to her and treated her with extreme disrespect. On top of that, he was very, very wrong about the situation he was brought in to 'help' fix.

His next appearance in the season 6 (I think) season premiere 2-parter redeemed him a little but he didn't really serve more of a purpose than the first time.

TPTB on any show make a habit of using guest characters and sometimes recurring characters (obviously with some exception like Zelenka and Lorne) to bolster the main characters' credibility and abiitities as soldiers, scientists, what-have-you.
Personally, I love Woolsey and Robert Picardo and I think his addition to the cast as Commander of Atlantis will bring up some very interesting topics for the show to discuss.

From what we know of him, he is a man very used to following the rules and doing everything by the book. But we've also seen that he willing to omit certain facts from reports and keep certain things from the IOA because he does realize that the IOA does not in fact want or need to know everything.

I'm interested to see how he balances his duties and responsibilities to Atlantis and Pegasus with his loyalty to the IOA.

This should make for a very interesting season 5.

To the bolded I hate those kinds of characters and not in a love to hate them kind of way. They're there to prop up the "Heroes" looking stupid so the "Heroes" look good.

So now as the leader he'll either be changed to be team sheppard's cheerleader or a doormat for team Sheppard to walk all over.

Reiko
April 5th, 2008, 12:50 PM
.: Pretty much what everyone else said is what I think - the big PTB needed someone to keep Weir's seat warm fill the vacant leadership spot, and to them, the most humour potential entertaining choice would be none other than our dear friend Richard Woolsey. Do they like controversy or something?

.: Now, Mallozzi and Co. could have at least been charitable and asked Torri back full-time, which a large portion of fans want. (If they were being really generous, they would buy the cast bunches of chocolate too.) Because -gasp!- at the end of BAMSR it was revealed the real Elizabeth wasn't dead!

.: Now, bring back Elizabeth, and because now they have two female cast members, (because nobody here wan't to be accused of being sexist), we can have Carson back as well! All is restored to order in fandom (or at least considerably more than now).

.: But no. Of course, bringing back Elizabeth could be interpreted as admitting their mistakes, and by now everybody knows the big TPTB does no wrong!

.: Ahem, back on subject - I have no problem with Woolsey as the SGA resident pain-in-the-ass IOA guy (and that chemistry with Jack in the Return - hot, hot, HOT) but as leader of Atlantis? Gime a break. :mckay:

EdenSG
April 5th, 2008, 06:53 PM
my personal opinion????

amanda left, thus leaving a void in the area of 'city administrator'

tptb had worked with picardo before and like him both as an actor and as a person. so when the opportunity came up to use a familiar face that they all liked to work with to fil a void, they decided to make woolsey the new boss.

How well will they handle it? i dunno. my biggest issues with woolsey stem from him being the perennial 'well meaning but ineffectual burocratic blunderer' who is often little more than a plot device to prove that our heros are usually right and the 'suits' are usually wrong

so it'll be interesting how they make a character that's been so plagued by being 'bad/making poor decisions' into the role of a leader. Because, to this point, he's never been a leader. he's just been a middle man fulfilling the orders of others

I agree with everything you said but look at it from a different viewpoint. I think all the problems you pointed out with Woolsey have the possibility of making the show more interesting. Sort of what Madeleine W said previously, too perfect is boring, and Woolsey is not a perfect character.

I think your statements;
“who (Woolsey) is often little more than a plot device to prove that our heroes are usually right and the 'suits' are usually wrong”
“plagued by being 'bad/making poor decisions' into the role of a leader. Because, to this point, he's never been a leader, he's just been a middle man fulfilling the orders of others”

are particularly discerning. He has been a plot device – to either make the characters look smart, brave, intelligent, etc or as a foil for a main character. But often, even when used as a plot device or a middle man I think I have seen glimpses of another, more understanding side of him as well.

Two examples that come to mind are #1. In “Misbegotten” he writes the final report in a way that the IOA will keep Weir as commander of Atlantis because he believes she would be best as leader of Atlantis. #2. In “The Last Man” when he was giving Rodney and Keller the speech on cutting back resources, not helping the humans of Pegasus, “our primary goal is to defend Atlantis” - while it did feel like he was reading a prepared statement from the IOA, it was what he added in his own words that struck a cord with me – he said, (in response to Keller reminding him there are people dying out there) “I know and believe me, if I thought there was anything I could do about it, I would.” Of all his lines, he delivered that one with more of a sincere feeling and he slightly emphasized the word “I”. So I think it may indicate he has a very human and even understanding side and has some uncertainties when it comes to the IOA. Perhaps he is a bit conflicted by what he believes to be right and what the IOA dictates? If he is, then I think in the beginning we may see some of this conflict. I actually don’t expect him to be perfect. I think we may see him falter as a leader and have differences with the other main characters and even the IOA - which I think will be interesting to watch.

Because he has been a plot device, we have never really had a chance to see him in a leadership role and it will be interesting to see the effect on his character and how being in the role of leader evolves/changes his character. As you said a lot of the responsibility falls on how the writers deal with the character. But on the other hand I really think RP is a great actor, a lot of experience in this genre and has a great screen presence, and I think he will excel in the role.

So in the end, where I can see the potential problems/issues with Woolsey being commander, I am more intrigued by the possibilities.

Skydiver
April 5th, 2008, 09:12 PM
it'll depend on how it's handled and if they use a light touch...or a sledge hammer :)

for woolsey to be believable, he can't even be quite as heavy handed as he was in Last Man. he can't be the 'leader you love to hate' because, well we'd just have general bauer for 20 episodes. (or 19)

to be interesting, he needs to stand up for them...and then NOT stand up for them. he needs to allow some things but not others, in other words, he needs to be unpredictible, but have a reason for his unpredictibilty

if he's the 'sniveling fraidy cat that gives jack an opening to quip' like he was in Return, it'll get really old really fast to have an endless parade of episodes where shep & co outsmart him and pull one over on him

Mitchell82
April 5th, 2008, 09:54 PM
it'll depend on how it's handled and if they use a light touch...or a sledge hammer :)

for woolsey to be believable, he can't even be quite as heavy handed as he was in Last Man. he can't be the 'leader you love to hate' because, well we'd just have general bauer for 20 episodes. (or 19)

to be interesting, he needs to stand up for them...and then NOT stand up for them. he needs to allow some things but not others, in other words, he needs to be unpredictible, but have a reason for his unpredictibilty

if he's the 'sniveling fraidy cat that gives jack an opening to quip' like he was in Return, it'll get really old really fast to have an endless parade of episodes where shep & co outsmart him and pull one over on him
It can easily go either way though I have faith that it will be done well.

Amalthea
April 5th, 2008, 10:47 PM
All I have to ask is really, how often was Hammond an integral part of an SG1 plot? Or Landry?

It seems to me the answer is not very often. The reason that I think we ran into trouble when Jack was commander and to some extent when Sam was in charge of Atlantis, was that we really wanted more from them since we already knew them and loved them and wanted more. I don't imagine the love being an issue for Woolsey.

The reason that we didn't require more from Landry and Hammond, I think was for several reasons, not the least of which was the fact that they were generals, so that tells you a lot about the character. It's like insta-backstory. I think they tried to do that for Weir with the UN etc stuff, but it didn't quite work, since really, the mainstream don't really know exactly what a diplomat's life is like. No insta-story so they tried to involve her in Atlantis plot lines more, which got a little messy in creating authority and chain of command. Couple that with the fact that the writers don't write women well and well, her fate was sealed.

I guess what I'm saying is Woolsey is a bureaucrat. He's a politician. We know what those guys are like, therefore, we know what will guide his decisions when he's in charge of Atlantis. His backstory is understood. That's why I don't think he's going to be as involved in the plot as much as Weir, Carter or Jack. If they're wise, they will treat him as a Hammond after some initial sparks and it'll be good. They'll evolve him as they evolved Rodney, and this will likely mark the end of the cast changes. And that's why he's been added to the cast.

So, that's what I think. All I can say to close is: please, please give Woolsey better shoes to do this in. The running shoes from The Last Man really didn't do it for me. LOL

Dyevanna
April 6th, 2008, 03:29 AM
I can see why they brought back a previously known character as opposed to creating a wholly new one for the role, considering the fact that a new character would require too much screen-time to develop.

While I was initially opposed to the idea, I'm gradually coming around. It's about time we had some conflict on base again.

Bey0nd
April 6th, 2008, 05:33 AM
Oh, it's not that I don't find him unbearable... I find him to be hilariously stupid and beaurocratic in all his glories.

It's the part where he will be developed that has me going ... Yeah right!

Woolsey should be left stranded on a planetary wasteland

IlluZen
April 6th, 2008, 08:49 AM
Personally, I really like the actor who plays Woolsey (I liked him as the Doctor in Star Trek Voyager). I can't wait to see what he brings into the mix here on Atlantis.

Raddo
April 6th, 2008, 01:28 PM
All I have to ask is really, how often was Hammond an integral part of an SG1 plot? Or Landry?

It seems to me the answer is not very often. The reason that I think we ran into trouble when Jack was commander and to some extent when Sam was in charge of Atlantis, was that we really wanted more from them since we already knew them and loved them and wanted more. I don't imagine the love being an issue for Woolsey.

The reason that we didn't require more from Landry and Hammond, I think was for several reasons, not the least of which was the fact that they were generals, so that tells you a lot about the character. It's like insta-backstory. I think they tried to do that for Weir with the UN etc stuff, but it didn't quite work, since really, the mainstream don't really know exactly what a diplomat's life is like. No insta-story so they tried to involve her in Atlantis plot lines more, which got a little messy in creating authority and chain of command. Couple that with the fact that the writers don't write women well and well, her fate was sealed.

I guess what I'm saying is Woolsey is a bureaucrat. He's a politician. We know what those guys are like, therefore, we know what will guide his decisions when he's in charge of Atlantis. His backstory is understood. That's why I don't think he's going to be as involved in the plot as much as Weir, Carter or Jack. If they're wise, they will treat him as a Hammond after some initial sparks and it'll be good. They'll evolve him as they evolved Rodney, and this will likely mark the end of the cast changes. And that's why he's been added to the cast.

So, that's what I think. All I can say to close is: please, please give Woolsey better shoes to do this in. The running shoes from The Last Man really didn't do it for me. LOL

Yeah those shoes stood out a mile. They were awful!!!!!
:jack_new_anime06:

alex153
April 6th, 2008, 01:36 PM
I'm sure Woolsey will be a nice character to have on Atlantis, helps keep it interesting and could cause some nice scenarios.

But on the other hand, I have liked most characters on the show, including Keller which everyone seem to hate. I had a serious problem with Kavanough though, the guy annoys me big time.

Reiko
April 6th, 2008, 02:11 PM
But on the other hand, I have liked most characters on the show, including Keller which everyone seem to hate. I had a serious problem with Kavanough though, the guy annoys me big time.

.: Really? Gero insisted everybody would looovve Keller :rolleyes:

jenks
April 6th, 2008, 02:16 PM
He probably wasn't counting on a knee-jerk reaction from the fans who weren't happy with the cast changes.

Reiko
April 6th, 2008, 02:25 PM
He probably wasn't counting on a knee-jerk reaction from the fans who weren't happy with the cast changes.

.: Yeah, probably :S

.: That's what you get for pointless cast changes.

PG15
April 6th, 2008, 02:27 PM
Well, no. That's what you get with fans who stick to kneejerk reactions.

EdenSG
April 6th, 2008, 05:12 PM
it'll depend on how it's handled and if they use a light touch...or a sledge hammer :)

for woolsey to be believable, he can't even be quite as heavy handed as he was in Last Man. he can't be the 'leader you love to hate' because, well we'd just have general bauer for 20 episodes. (or 19)

to be interesting, he needs to stand up for them...and then NOT stand up for them. he needs to allow some things but not others, in other words, he needs to be unpredictible, but have a reason for his unpredictibilty

if he's the 'sniveling fraidy cat that gives jack an opening to quip' like he was in Return, it'll get really old really fast to have an endless parade of episodes where shep & co outsmart him and pull one over on him

I agree. :)

Pandora's_Box
April 6th, 2008, 06:14 PM
it'll depend on how it's handled and if they use a light touch...or a sledge hammer :)

for woolsey to be believable, he can't even be quite as heavy handed as he was in Last Man. he can't be the 'leader you love to hate' because, well we'd just have general bauer for 20 episodes. (or 19)

to be interesting, he needs to stand up for them...and then NOT stand up for them. he needs to allow some things but not others, in other words, he needs to be unpredictible, but have a reason for his unpredictibilty

if he's the 'sniveling fraidy cat that gives jack an opening to quip' like he was in Return, it'll get really old really fast to have an endless parade of episodes where shep & co outsmart him and pull one over on him

I don't know about 'unpredictable' but I agree that he can't be a pushover. Once he becomes a regular and the Commander of Atlantis, his work as a plot device needs to stop. That means no snivelling or whining. No acquiesing to Sheppard's every request or bearing the brunt of his sarcastic retorts.

Obviously he'll agree with some things and disagree with others but we as the audience need to be able to see the logical steps it takes him to arrive to his decisions. We may not agree with them but they at least need to make sense.

I disagree with upredictable. He needs to be predictable. We need to know where he stands as a character and as Commander. Was he put there as an IOA watchdog or was he put there because someone honestly thinks he's the best man for Atlantis? The writers need to establish this and then we, the audience, have to be able to see where his decisions are coming from.

If TPTB fail to do this then I'm afraid all the naysayers with knee-jerk reactions will have been right and all of Picardo's talent will go to waste.

Willow'sCat
April 6th, 2008, 06:31 PM
That's what you get for pointless cast changes.Pointless to some a blessing to others. :)

Woolsey can't be any worse then Weir. :S Just not possible!

Given the actor has proven he is good at his profession I think he will take what he is given and make it work. Of course a lot is about the writing but it is also about the actor.

I have much confidence in this actors abilities.

As for main cast? Well he is part of the main cast in the way Hammond was I assume, but on SGA the leader seems to put in the credits so I guess he will as well. :cool: I doubt he will be over used like Weir was, or used in an inappropriate way like going off world too much, certainly there is no need for him to be armed as such, well no more need then say any scientist or whatever on Atlantis. The military will protect him.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing him take a few hand to hand combat lessons from Ronon. :D:p

Mitchell82
April 6th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Woolsey should be left stranded on a planetary wasteland
Can't do that that's where Kavanaugh is.;)

IlluZen
April 7th, 2008, 01:23 PM
I don't know about 'unpredictable' but I agree that he can't be a pushover. Once he becomes a regular and the Commander of Atlantis, his work as a plot device needs to stop. That means no snivelling or whining. No acquiesing to Sheppard's every request or bearing the brunt of his sarcastic retorts.

You really think that just because they make him a regular they'll stop using him as a plot device? McKay has been a regular since the beginning of the show and they still abuse him as comic relief, or play the cowardly/inept scientist card whenever they want to make everyone else look braver. :mckay:

Pandora's_Box
April 7th, 2008, 02:06 PM
You really think that just because they make him a regular they'll stop using him as a plot device? McKay has been a regular since the beginning of the show and they still abuse him as comic relief, or play the cowardly/inept scientist card whenever they want to make everyone else look braver. :mckay:

Granted, yes. But that's not all they use him for. Most of the time. He's had his fair share (some would claim more than his fair share) of character-development episodes or moments. Even though some of them (again, some would say most of them) haven't atually stuck, doesn't negate the fact that they existed.

So far, Woolsey has only existed as a plot device. While I don't really expect (just hope) that TPTB will truly make him a competent Commander, I do expect them to give him episodes or moments when he is a competent Commander. If that makes any sense outside of my head.

It seems to be what they do with all their characters; one moment they're 3-dimensional characters and the next they're caricatures of their former selves. Sigh.....

Teslan
April 7th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Granted, yes. But that's not all they use him for. Most of the time. He's had his fair share (some would claim more than his fair share) of character-development episodes or moments. Even though some of them (again, some would say most of them) haven't atually stuck, doesn't negate the fact that they existed.

So far, Woolsey has only existed as a plot device. While I don't really expect (just hope) that TPTB will truly make him a competent Commander, I do expect them to give him episodes or moments when he is a competent Commander. If that makes any sense outside of my head.

It seems to be what they do with all their characters; one moment they're 3-dimensional characters and the next they're caricatures of their former selves. Sigh.....

I fully agree with your post, if by comptent Commander you don't mean someone who is always right and in agreement with the team. Best case scenario IMHO, would be to have Woolsey retain his uneasy respect for the team. He could play out as someone who often goes along with their suggestions on a lot of issues purely out of deference. But when some more problematic issue arises he could make his own decisions, sometimes making things worse, and thus, proving the team right; but sometimes improving things.

Its the back and forth that would work best, I think. He wouldn't have come off as a doormat or a complete nudnik.

Pandora's_Box
April 7th, 2008, 06:30 PM
I fully agree with your post, if by comptent Commander you don't mean someone who is always right and in agreement with the team. Best case scenario IMHO, would be to have Woolsey retain his uneasy respect for the team. He could play out as someone who often goes along with their suggestions on a lot of issues purely out of deference. But when some more problematic issue arises he could make his own decisions, sometimes making things worse, and thus, proving the team right; but sometimes improving things.

Its the back and forth that would work best, I think. He wouldn't have come off as a doormat or a complete nudnik.

Precisely what I meant. No one is ever always right or ever always wrong, so why expect Woolsey to be portrayed in one of those two lights? I think we've seen that the writers are capable of writing well-intentioned fallible characters, so why should Woolsey be any different?

SpaceCowboy
April 7th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Okay, I'm going out on a limb, and I'm going to look outside the Stargate universe for a moment. Another of my favorite shows, "24", has a very similar and recurring situation. You have the Counter Terrorist Unit based in LA that operates as a semi-autonomous part of the CIA, almost as if they were located in another galaxy. During each season, CTU is faced with increasingly perilous situations that often result in the death, or near death of main cast members. Most importantly, however, at some point in every episode, Division, the suits that run things in DC, have to send someone in to take over. Invariably, this new "director" comes to understand that the way CTU does things is the right way to do things and gets out of their way and starts to run interference for them with the suits in DC. In other words, he or she becomes one of the team.

I hope that this is the kind of story line we can expect with Woolsey. While I have limited knowledge of his interaction with the SG-1 folks, his presence in the Atlantis story has not been unacceptable. He is a bureaucrat, no question. He is one used to following the rules, yawn. But, he is also smart enough to know how to hitch his wagon to the biggest and baddest horse in the barn. Hopefully he will be savvy enough to be able to walk that tightrope between what the IOA wants and the reality of life in the PG.

Finally, I echo the kudos for RP. I have liked him as an actor since he was on China Beach (now I have just dated myself). Maybe McKay should find a hidden command routine in the Lantean Mainframe that turns out to be an Emergency Medical Holigram. :) And then they let Woolsey name it, much to Sheppard's chagrin.

Detox
April 7th, 2008, 11:45 PM
I like Woolsey as a recurring guest star representative of the IOA, but... most of his appearances (if not all) feature him making catastrophic decissions with SG-1 or Sheppard's team having to clean up the mess. Why on Earth is he being added to the main cast, and why as the Atlantis Expedition leader? I've nothing against Picardo, it's just... it's like putting Kinsey or Maybourne in charge. :S

Well, it's a key difference between Kinsey and Woolsey, and that's Woolsey's honest, and despite all the mistakes and complaints he's made, everything he does, he does with good intentions in mind.