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Wander2072
March 18th, 2008, 05:16 AM
OK, so is it just me or does te'lc go from having grey hair on the right side to both sides and then back again thoughout this film? :tealcanime49:

Other than that, good work done by all on this. Buy it, Buy it now

kymeric
March 19th, 2008, 04:56 AM
OK, so is it just me or does te'lc go from having grey hair on the right side to both sides and then back again thoughout this film? :tealcanime49:

Other than that, good work done by all on this. Buy it, Buy it now

Scenes get flipped all the time in cinema work. We just usually dont have a white band on one side of the head to make it obvious :O

SylvreWolfe
March 19th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Nope, not just you, it was Teal'c and the bad continuity of the show.

1138
March 20th, 2008, 07:26 PM
A lot of the time a scene is flipped during the editing process. One reason why it happens is to maintain eyeline continuity.

An example of eyelines: If two people are conversing, for example, it's customary in cinema to show them looking towards opposite sides of the screen in shots where only one is visible. To prevent confusion for viewers, the direction they look has to match the direction each is looking when both of them are on screen. The same applies for when a character has to look at something. If the camera work has established that the object they're looking at is to the right of them, it gets confusing when a shot makes them look at the left side of the screen.

When a film is being edited together, they have to make sure the eyelines make sense from shot to shot and sometimes its necessary to do a flip for that shot.

Adrius
March 23rd, 2008, 04:07 AM
Great post. Always interesting to learn things like this :)

SylvreWolfe
March 23rd, 2008, 11:05 AM
Nah, I still chalk it up to them not paying attention and continuity issues. The stripe, itself, also changed size. And, this is not the first time, of many, that details like this were mucked up.

1138
March 23rd, 2008, 09:36 PM
Nah, I still chalk it up to them not paying attention and continuity issues. The stripe, itself, also changed size. And, this is not the first time, of many, that details like this were mucked up.

If you've ever been on a film set, you'd realize there are far too many things to "pay attention" to if you're expecting perfect continuity. When you're on set, you're on the clock and you only get a very limited number of chances to do your filming. You may not always be able to return to do additional shooting. So mistakes happen and make it to the final film. It's a fact of life.

But as I've said, sometimes it's necessary to flip a shot during editing, which is a likely reason for Teal'c's hair to be flipped.

SylvreWolfe
March 24th, 2008, 01:53 PM
If you've ever been on a film set, you'd realize there are far too many things to "pay attention" to if you're expecting perfect continuity. When you're on set, you're on the clock and you only get a very limited number of chances to do your filming. You may not always be able to return to do additional shooting. So mistakes happen and make it to the final film. It's a fact of life.

But as I've said, sometimes it's necessary to flip a shot during editing, which is a likely reason for Teal'c's hair to be flipped.

Or, they just messed things up. How can you not pay attention to continuity? How hard can it be to keep the streak on the same side or to even have it the same size each time, instead of it changing shape from scene to scene? TPTB on this show don't bother with maintaining details or continuity, they never have. They have made mistakes like this since Children of the Gods, mistakes that cannot be chalked up to flipping a shot. It is them not paying attention to the characters on the show. And that, too, is a fact of life. What could be more important than getting the characters right? Another likely reason for the streak to be wrong is that they just messed up.

Bagpuss
March 24th, 2008, 02:24 PM
A lot of the time a scene is flipped during the editing process. One reason why it happens is to maintain eyeline continuity.

An example of eyelines: If two people are conversing, for example, it's customary in cinema to show them looking towards opposite sides of the screen in shots where only one is visible. To prevent confusion for viewers, the direction they look has to match the direction each is looking when both of them are on screen. The same applies for when a character has to look at something. If the camera work has established that the object they're looking at is to the right of them, it gets confusing when a shot makes them look at the left side of the screen.

When a film is being edited together, they have to make sure the eyelines make sense from shot to shot and sometimes its necessary to do a flip for that shot.

That explanation makes sense.:)
I have to say I really only noticed the stripe-flip during part of Teal'c's trek through the snow.
Then I shrugged and carried on watching to see what happened next in the movie.

To me it wasn't a biggie,but then perhaps I'm just easily pleased by seeing the movie at last on Sky ,lol ! :D

1138
March 24th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Or, they just messed things up. How can you not pay attention to continuity? How hard can it be to keep the streak on the same side or to even have it the same size each time, instead of it changing shape from scene to scene?

I told you already, they might need to flip shots during editing. How hard is that to understand?

Wait, do you pay for your education? It's time to get your money back. Maybe ask for a tax refund if it's public school.



TPTB on this show don't bother with maintaining details or continuity, they never have. They have made mistakes like this since Children of the Gods, mistakes that cannot be chalked up to flipping a shot. It is them not paying attention to the characters on the show. And that, too, is a fact of life. What could be more important than getting the characters right? Another likely reason for the streak to be wrong is that they just messed up.
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As opposed to any other production where the same types of mistakes happen, right? The show is filmed on a weekly basis, which is a very fast paced shooting schedule and you expect them to get everything perfect?

Come back after you've directed a film and had to deal with the hassle of working on set in unpredictable conditions. Until then, you don't know what you're talking about and are being needlessly nitpicky.

brains12
March 26th, 2008, 10:24 AM
They have made mistakes like this since Children of the Gods, mistakes that cannot be chalked up to flipping a shot. It is them not paying attention to the characters on the show.


They're obviously doing something right to keep you watching from CotG to the Ark.

the fifth man
March 26th, 2008, 05:54 PM
I remember noticing that the first time I watched AOT. It actually makes me laugh a little now.

Zamboni
March 27th, 2008, 12:19 AM
The answer is obvious. Teal'C has in fact, lost all his hair, and that piece of gray is in fact, his wig!!!

That's right!!! Teal'C is BALD!!!

(but even Jaffa like to look young)

wolverine_nl
March 27th, 2008, 04:47 AM
I told you already, they might need to flip shots during editing. How hard is that to understand?

Wait, do you pay for your education? It's time to get your money back. Maybe ask for a tax refund if it's public school.



As opposed to any other production where the same types of mistakes happen, right? The show is filmed on a weekly basis, which is a very fast paced shooting schedule and you expect them to get everything perfect?

Come back after you've directed a film and had to deal with the hassle of working on set in unpredictable conditions. Until then, you don't know what you're talking about and are being needlessly nitpicky.

You are correct, nothing is perfect, it doesnt excist and people should realise it, even big blockbusters with a budget of 50 million contains errors, it is made by people, not robots.
Be happy with what you have rather than with what you dont have ;)

cocytus
March 27th, 2008, 07:53 AM
Continuity has never been a strong suit for Stargate.
Even when it was on Showtime...there were always little things that never meshed from scene to scene.
Or episode to episode.

Even things that would have made sense (like Teal'c falling face down on the beach and rising w/o sand on his face or upper torso) fall through the cracks.
If continuity were a priority, a better job would be done.
It isn't...so it isn't...

1138
March 28th, 2008, 02:27 PM
To settle the issue once and for all, look at the scene where the streak is on the wrong side when Teal'c is making his journey through the mountains. Look at the antenna for his radio. It's on his right side, when normally it's on his left. This proves that the scene was flipped during editing: you have more than one feature that has been flipped, which precludes any sort of on set mistake in this case. And don't even think that it was because they also put the radio in the wrong pocket. As you can see from the following picture:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z98/cartoon_wookie/stargate/SG-AOT-PR-CJ-01.jpg

The radio pocket is designed differently from the other pocket and has a special hole for the antenna. Therefore, the shot WAS flipped during editing.

nosaj
March 28th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Come back after you've directed a film and had to deal with the hassle of working on set in unpredictable conditions. Until then, you don't know what you're talking about and are being needlessly nitpicky.

Agreed, as a film student i can tell you from personal experience, film sets are very tough to work on. everything is about speed, time keeping and getting things shot. The hair and makeup people takes tonnes of pictures. I can pretty much safetly say that they probably put his stripe on the right hand side everyday however flipping the shot changed the side. now which would you prefer, teal'c's hair correct and no intergelatic space battles, or intergalactic space battles and a little continuity error from time to time??

personally i think the space battles rock and would prefer all the money keeps going to that rather than making sure teal'c's hair line is right

Mitchell82
March 28th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Nah, I still chalk it up to them not paying attention and continuity issues. The stripe, itself, also changed size. And, this is not the first time, of many, that details like this were mucked up.

It was a minor mistake not as big as you are making it.

SylvreWolfe
March 28th, 2008, 06:42 PM
I told you already, they might need to flip shots during editing. How hard is that to understand?

Wait, do you pay for your education? It's time to get your money back. Maybe ask for a tax refund if it's public school.



As opposed to any other production where the same types of mistakes happen, right? The show is filmed on a weekly basis, which is a very fast paced shooting schedule and you expect them to get everything perfect?

Come back after you've directed a film and had to deal with the hassle of working on set in unpredictable conditions. Until then, you don't know what you're talking about and are being needlessly nitpicky.


And I am suppose to believe something just because YOU say it is so?? Whatever.

Why is it so difficult for these *well educated, professionals* to keep continuity? How hard is it to NOT change something once it has been put to use. How hard is it to maintain something? And I am not just talking about hair, so get over it. Which, I have mentioned several times, but for some reason, you aren't reading those parts. You are only reading the one part that you think you can argue against.

P.S. I am a VP of a production company with a couple under the belt. So, get back to me when you know what you are talking about instead of making excuses for poor planning, poor research, and poor filming.

I expect better from so called professionals.


And attacking my education just shows the lack of your own and your own inability to accept that some people don't think you walk on water. Maybe you should get your money back on whatever education you have, and maybe even sue the school for malpractice and negligence.

SylvreWolfe
March 28th, 2008, 06:47 PM
It was a minor mistake not as big as you are making it.

I would accept it as a minor mistake if it weren't just one of many mistakes they have made over ten years. These are simple mistakes that could have been avoided with just a little, and I mean a very little, thought given to anything. And then they get all pissy with fans who actually notice it.

And, it is as big as I want to make it. It may not mean anything to you, but that doesn't mean the same for me.

As I said before, I expect better from these so called professionals who make grandiose claims of their research.

1138
March 28th, 2008, 10:01 PM
And I am suppose to believe something just because YOU say it is so?? Whatever.

I've since proven that it was a shot that was flipped during editing. See my previous post, or, in case you're too lazy to go back:

To settle the issue once and for all, look at the scene where the streak is on the wrong side when Teal'c is making his journey through the mountains. Look at the antenna for his radio. It's on his right side, when normally it's on his left. This proves that the scene was flipped during editing: you have more than one feature that has been flipped, which precludes any sort of on set mistake in this case. And don't even think that it was because they also put the radio in the wrong pocket. As you can see from the following picture:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...T-PR-CJ-01.jpg

The radio pocket is designed differently from the other pocket and has a special hole for the antenna. Therefore, the shot WAS flipped during editing.



Why is it so difficult for these *well educated, professionals* to keep continuity? How hard is it to NOT change something once it has been put to use. How hard is it to maintain something? And I am not just talking about hair, so get over it.

Yes you are. You kept dismissing my explanation about them flipping the shot during editing:


Nah, I still chalk it up to them not paying attention and continuity issues.


Or, they just messed things up. How can you not pay attention to continuity? How hard can it be to keep the streak on the same side or to even have it the same size each time, instead of it changing shape from scene to scene?


You did it not once, but twice. So don't pretend that you didn't.

You added the part about other continuity issues, to which I replied that you can't expect perfection. But that doesn't change the fact that you repeatedly dismissed my explanation for the streak being on the wrong side, an explanation which I have now proven.



Which, I have mentioned several times, but for some reason, you aren't reading those parts. You are only reading the one part that you think you can argue against.

And you think you can argue against the fact that every production has the same problems?



P.S. I am a VP of a production company with a couple under the belt. So, get back to me when you know what you are talking about instead of making excuses for poor planning, poor research, and poor filming.

Given your ignorance about the film making process, I highly doubt that you are in any way involved in film production. But even if what you say is true, it shows that you don't have any direct experience with filming. Being the VP of a production company is absolutely worthless for the purposes of this discussion since you aren't the person who's actually working on set!



I expect better from so called professionals.

$100 million films have continuity mistakes. Do you seriously think that those films aren't professionally made?



And attacking my education just shows the lack of your own


So you're saying that someone who is knowledgeable about something can't say that someone else is ignorant about that same topic? Very logical.



and your own inability to accept that some people don't think you walk on water.

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You expect perfection, after all, from people under all sorts of stressful shooting conditions where it is impossible to pay attention to everything. Do you expect people to think you walk on water?



Maybe you should get your money back on whatever education you have, and maybe even sue the school for malpractice and negligence.


I got fully paid for my education, so it'll be quite hard to get my money back. As for suing for malpractice and negligence - that sounds nice but they're not the correct law suits to file if one feels that they were cheated by their school. The terms you're looking for are: fraudulent accreditation and breach of contract. You might want to write them down, for reference. ;)

nosaj
March 29th, 2008, 03:53 PM
I applaud that last post and i agree that being a VP of a production company isnt worth the paper its written on. You have no on set work and that means you dont understand the way it works. I can tell you this though. EVERY single film, tv show or short has had continuity errors, equipment visable or technical indescretions and if you dont believe me go by IMDB.com and have a little looksee yourself

Agent_Dark
March 29th, 2008, 03:59 PM
sylverwolfe, you lost the argument long ago. stop digging yourself further. also, pink text = fail imo. it's not a good colour to try and read on a forum.

Mitchell82
March 29th, 2008, 04:34 PM
I would accept it as a minor mistake if it weren't just one of many mistakes they have made over ten years. These are simple mistakes that could have been avoided with just a little, and I mean a very little, thought given to anything. And then they get all pissy with fans who actually notice it.

And, it is as big as I want to make it. It may not mean anything to you, but that doesn't mean the same for me.

As I said before, I expect better from these so called professionals who make grandiose claims of their research.
I refuse to repeat the same thing again and again. You've lost this argument awhile ago give it up.

Edsplano
March 31st, 2008, 09:06 AM
Then let's cancel production on EVERYTHING until the hair gets right.

gkyun
April 2nd, 2008, 06:50 AM
TBH I'd much prefer Teal'c to have grey hair on both sides. That particular strip on the side just seems too "hip" for my taste. It looks more like a fashion thing than a sign of seniority to me.

cheese
April 2nd, 2008, 07:02 AM
The continuity was pretty lazy in AoT. I don't expect absoulte perfection, I think it's fun to spot the little mistakes. Teal'c stripe is a pretty stupid thing to have in the first place, but if you're going to have it than at least get it right. It wouldn't have been much effort at all to color it black in scenes where they had to flip the image to effort and money required to do that would be tiny. To consistantly get a fairly simple effect like that wrong just looks lazy. The whole film in my opinion lacked polish and this is an example of it.

While I see your point the pink text is pretty horrible on the eyes SylvreWolfe :s

Mitchell82
April 2nd, 2008, 11:38 AM
TBH I'd much prefer Teal'c to have grey hair on both sides. That particular strip on the side just seems too "hip" for my taste. It looks more like a fashion thing than a sign of seniority to me.

I like the way it is but I wouldn't mind your way either.

HyperCaz
April 16th, 2008, 02:51 PM
glad I wasn't the only one driven insane by it - although I'll admit I didn't notice until my Mum pointed it out in one of the heroic-mountain-climbing scenes. :o

I'd like it on both sides, if only to avoid the confusion of flipping shots!

Mitchell82
April 17th, 2008, 10:17 PM
glad I wasn't the only one driven insane by it - although I'll admit I didn't notice until my Mum pointed it out in one of the heroic-mountain-climbing scenes. :o

I'd like it on both sides, if only to avoid the confusion of flipping shots!

I didn't notice at first either though it's not a huge goof.

NIKIN
April 19th, 2008, 10:20 AM
I didn't really notice it, it was one of those things where I saw it, shrugged it off and neer thought about it again until reading this thread.

Also, SylvreWolfe you lost the arguement, please just let it go. It was down to the way they edited it that the hair ended up on the wrong side in order to make the sequence look right. I'm sure if they hadn't flipped it there would be someone complaining that Teal'c was walking in the wrong direction or something. The way you are complaining it sounds like the makeup artist some how cocked up in a major way and coloured the wrong side of his head

Mitchell82
April 20th, 2008, 04:01 PM
I didn't really notice it, it was one of those things where I saw it, shrugged it off and neer thought about it again until reading this thread.

Also, SylvreWolfe you lost the arguement, please just let it go. It was down to the way they edited it that the hair ended up on the wrong side in order to make the sequence look right. I'm sure if they hadn't flipped it there would be someone complaining that Teal'c was walking in the wrong direction or something. The way you are complaining it sounds like the makeup artist some how cocked up in a major way and coloured the wrong side of his head
Thank you!