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    SG universe vs Species 8472 had to be done

    When looking at the borg vs stargate universe thread i noticed species 8472's name being thrown about alot so here goes

    species 8472

    can blow up a planet with 4 ships in several seconds (arcturas type explosion)
    live in another universe were the entire universe is filled with liquid substance and as bc-304 use some sort of combustion thruster probably wont work
    have shields
    have vastly superior numbers
    can open up a wormhole anywere in this universe
    Advanced biomecanical technology
    can survive numerous energy weapon hits
    ships can absorb most energy wep fire
    arent stupid tactically
    with a single touch can slowly kill a human by turning his organs into a different form of biomatter


    i know i said i dont like posting these but hey i just did it i cant wait to see the comebacks from this considering there universe is vitualy impossible to be attacked can move instantaniosly throughout the universe and can blow up earth in seconds before the SGC even knows they exist.
    if it wasnt for Carters new plot shield we would be dead



    #2
    Originally posted by a6346 View Post
    When looking at the borg vs stargate universe thread i noticed species 8472's name being thrown about alot so here goes

    species 8472

    can blow up a planet with 4 ships in several seconds (arcturas type explosion)
    live in another universe were the entire universe is filled with liquid substance and as bc-304 use some sort of combustion thruster probably wont work
    have shields
    have vastly superior numbers
    can open up a wormhole anywere in this universe
    Advanced biomecanical technology
    can survive numerous energy weapon hits
    ships can absorb most energy wep fire
    arent stupid tactically
    with a single touch can slowly kill a human by turning his organs into a different form of biomatter


    i know i said i dont like posting these but hey i just did it i cant wait to see the comebacks from this considering there universe is vitualy impossible to be attacked can move instantaniosly throughout the universe and can blow up earth in seconds before the SGC even knows they exist.
    It took 9 bioships combining their firepower to destroy a planet. The amount of firepower each ship has to contribute eclipses what the Ori mothership main cannon delivers which is arguably one of the most (if not the most) powerful ship weapon in Stargate.

    It’s not certain that they have shields. Their ships (and themselves probably) have the ability to alter or modify incoming energy in such a way that it literally dissipates rather than harming (kind of like super soldier armor does). When the cube fired at a bioship, one of the energy bolts struck the front of the bioship and it literally just dissipated with no signs of hitting some sort of energy shielding. No doubt there is probably a limit to how much energy it can dissipate at a given time though at the moment that limit is not known but judging from the little of them we’ve seen, that’s a far away limit.

    They do have vastly superior numbers, having one pilot per bioship seems to allow them that freedom and doesn’t hinder working with each other (they’re a telepathic race). There’s no clear evidence of how many members of their race are in existence but judging from what we’ve seen, they have more than enough if the invasion fleet they sent into Borg territory is any indication.

    I guess it would depend on the parameters of your vs. scenario. Since they’ve only been seen a couple times on Voyager, the writers really haven’t weakened them that much. We saw how formidable one of the creature was in the episode with the Hirogen hunting it. If just one is so hard to kill, imagine a whole army. Modified Borg assimilation nano-probe seems to be the only thing that can neutralize them and even then it’s an iffy since they now have the blueprints for that technology and this technology doesn't exist in the SG universe. Ordinary replicator nanites are nowhere as capable as Borg assimilation nano-probes.

    If they were to invade the SG realm like they attacked the Borg, it’s doubtful that any of the races would survive the ensuing war.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by MacTX View Post
      It took 9 bioships combining their firepower to destroy a planet. The amount of firepower each ship has to contribute eclipses what the Ori mothership main cannon delivers which is arguably one of the most (if not the most) powerful ship weapon in Stargate.
      Most impressive, but I think the real planet buster component was the central ship. The 8 other ones probably just served to generate a coalesced beam, nothing else, since those ships have never shown the ability to fire such energy.
      Besides, the core ship in the middle of the pach wasn't used after that. It's possibly a one shot device with plenty of crazy stuff packed in. That said, it's a formidable and practical weapon.

      It’s not certain that they have shields. Their ships (and themselves probably) have the ability to alter or modify incoming energy in such a way that it literally dissipates rather than harming (kind of like super soldier armor does). When the cube fired at a bioship, one of the energy bolts struck the front of the bioship and it literally just dissipated with no signs of hitting some sort of energy shielding. No doubt there is probably a limit to how much energy it can dissipate at a given time though at the moment that limit is not known but judging from the little of them we’ve seen, that’s a far away limit.
      It can be known if non handicaped bioships have been destroyed. What about the bioships which hit cubes and immediately got destroyed by the minor impact?
      Railguns would have a field day against such targets, assuming those crashed bioships didn't suffer from any malfunction.

      They do have vastly superior numbers, having one pilot per bioship seems to allow them that freedom and doesn’t hinder working with each other (they’re a telepathic race). There’s no clear evidence of how many members of their race are in existence but judging from what we’ve seen, they have more than enough if the invasion fleet they sent into Borg territory is any indication.
      They may open a rift anywhere they like, but they haven't got very far as I get it. FTL travelling speeds in Trek are rather slow in comparison to Stargate.

      I guess it would depend on the parameters of your vs. scenario. Since they’ve only been seen a couple times on Voyager, the writers really haven’t weakened them that much. We saw how formidable one of the creature was in the episode with the Hirogen hunting it. If just one is so hard to kill, imagine a whole army. Modified Borg assimilation nano-probe seems to be the only thing that can neutralize them and even then it’s an iffy since they now have the blueprints for that technology and this technology doesn't exist in the SG universe. Ordinary replicator nanites are nowhere as capable as Borg assimilation nano-probes.
      If they were to invade the SG realm like they attacked the Borg, it’s doubtful that any of the races would survive the ensuing war.
      [/quote]

      Borg nanites are precisely meant to control alien species. The asuran/replicator nanites aren't, though they clearly are capable of controlling humans and spreading like hell within one's body.
      Well, of course, if there's a human with a "strong mind", the asuran nanites loose.

      The S8472 survived for so long because their natural defenses could destroy the Borg nanites. The replicators have shown the ability to use other means to control people.

      There's also the simple fact that replicators are way tougher than the Borg, and if a replicator won't use nanites to puppetize someone, they'll still aim for the spinal cord and shortcircuit the brain.

      S8472 would get screwed against the replicators, no matter what they try.
      Replicators have numbers, assimilate just as much and just as fast as the Borg, they even expand upon assimilated tech, they can take any kind of advanced firepower in the guts and not budge, they're far more modular than the Borg, and their neutronium forms are just ultimate tough *****es.
      Let the replicators capture one single bioship, which all evidence considered would be rather easy, and it's the end.

      Now, you can say that the replicators are the baddies in SG, but no one said it was a nice vs nice contest.
      The Al'kesh is not a warship - Info on Naqahdah & Naqahdria - Firepower of Goa'uld staff weapons - Everything about Hiveships and the Wraith - An idea about what powers Destiny...

      Comment


        #4
        But their tech is organic, would the reps be able to asimilate it?(talking about MW replicators here of ocurse)

        Now the biggest advantage i see for the replicators is time dialation technology, the kind Fifth used to escape a black hole. Even if a bioship fire a beam at the Rep ship then it slows down time, rearanges it's blocks so the beam goes though a hole in the midddle, then goes back to normal.

        Comment


          #5
          The only problem in SG is the replicators but im going to argue the same way people argue in other threads and most likely will in this one.

          The replicator cell wouldnt work they just wouldnt the 8472 immune system is to strong and replicator cells wouldnt even get scratched.

          They can open subspace corridors whenever and wereever they like but still have warpdrive so they dont use it all the time obviosly it would give away there position if it did they could be tracked and enemy forces could move on them.

          When a single species 8472 ship attacked voyager it knocked alot of the systems offline if it wasnt for warp engines they wouldnt have escaped thats just from a single shot and as i personally think that intrepid shields are on par with asgard shields then the BC-304 would be overun easy. I say there shields are that strong because theres no evidence of the other, starfleet shields are more advanced because they have the ability to modify there freqeuncy alowing them to adapt wereas asgard shields cant do that.

          who's to say railguns would do any damage to species 8472 bioships all it would take is a shield and there useless even then they can heal themselves pretty fast.

          That bioship that was destroyed by the cube ramming into it was destroyed because it had a ship the size of a wraith hive ship only more dense and bigger in hieght a cube is obviosly cube shaped and 1 side is the length of a wraith hive and seriosly what ship would survive being hit by a ship that size and from what we seen in other episodes it was only lightly damaged.

          About the central bioship we dont know what happened to it it might have been destroyed but most likely it went about and destroyed more planets even then species 8472 still had more of them later in the episode 'scorpion' 7 is told the borg are underattack in another system something like 30 cubes several million drones and 5 planet's destroyed

          im arguing like all the blind SG fans are
          if it wasnt for Carters new plot shield we would be dead


          Comment


            #6
            Battel plan for SG verse:

            -reprogram MW replis to atack 8472 but not others. then give them some important uber tech(time dialation, asgard beams, etc)

            I'm also questioning hte efectiveness of 8472 beams on reliblocks, we know the absorbed and chanedled energy so couldn't a RepliCruiser once hit simply use that energy to fire back on the bioship?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
              Most impressive, but I think the real planet buster component was the central ship. The 8 other ones probably just served to generate a coalesced beam, nothing else, since those ships have never shown the ability to fire such energy.
              Besides, the core ship in the middle of the pach wasn't used after that. It's possibly a one shot device with plenty of crazy stuff packed in. That said, it's a formidable and practical weapon.
              Nothing is really certain as we didn’t see too much of them but from what was shown of the planet killer “mini-fleet,” the center ship looked to be about the same size as the other ships with just slightly different “wings” and protrusions. It’s not certain, what the exact role is but from what is shown, it looks to be some sort of channel ship that channels the energy from the other 8 ships into a single beam (probably with power from the central ship being added to it as well).

              I’m not sure I agree that the central ship was providing most of the energy for the planet killing beam, tactically that’s not a very efficient design to have to utilize 9 of your warships when say 3 or 4 would be sufficient. If the central type ships have that much power, it would be better tactics (as well as better use of equipment) to have 2 central type ships (or even 1) channel their energy to another central type ship to generate the needed firepower.

              Let’s also not forget that weapons fires from the bioships have only been seen for very short bursts when used against the Borg ship as well as Voyager (the beams that actually impacts the ships that is… I can’t say much about some of their aim). When we see it used with the planet killer mini-fleet, it’s for a longer duration almost like the beams were being used to charge the central ships.


              Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
              It can be known if non handicaped bioships have been destroyed. What about the bioships which hit cubes and immediately got destroyed by the minor impact?
              Railguns would have a field day against such targets, assuming those crashed bioships didn't suffer from any malfunction.
              The one that crashed with the cube during the attack supposedly ends up being hunted by the Hirogen in a later episode. That’s the assumption anyways. The flashback scenes point back to that event.

              I wouldn’t say a bioship is indestructible; it’s just harder to destroy. Not to mention it doesn’t look like they have a shortage of ships or pilots.



              Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
              They may open a rift anywhere they like, but they haven't got very far as I get it. FTL travelling speeds in Trek are rather slow in comparison to Stargate.
              That’s also unknown. In one of the other episodes they appeared in, they recreated Starfleet in a simulation aboard some sort of giant space station they made (which they said they had a dozen or so) to try and understand this new enemy that helped the Borg, the humans. they used some sort of technology to make them look like humans and were planning to infiltrate earth. It seems unlikely they would have gone through all the trouble if they were stranded in Borg space/territory.



              Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
              Borg nanites are precisely meant to control alien species. The asuran/replicator nanites aren't, though they clearly are capable of controlling humans and spreading like hell within one's body.
              Well, of course, if there's a human with a "strong mind", the asuran nanites loose.

              The S8472 survived for so long because their natural defenses could destroy the Borg nanites. The replicators have shown the ability to use other means to control people.

              There's also the simple fact that replicators are way tougher than the Borg, and if a replicator won't use nanites to puppetize someone, they'll still aim for the spinal cord and shortcircuit the brain.

              S8472 would get screwed against the replicators, no matter what they try.
              Replicators have numbers, assimilate just as much and just as fast as the Borg, they even expand upon assimilated tech, they can take any kind of advanced firepower in the guts and not budge, they're far more modular than the Borg, and their neutronium forms are just ultimate tough *****es.
              Let the replicators capture one single bioship, which all evidence considered would be rather easy, and it's the end.

              Now, you can say that the replicators are the baddies in SG, but no one said it was a nice vs nice contest.
              Borg nanites are designed to turn a humanoid into a Borg as well as repair and maintain said Borg (Enterprise’s contribution to the Borg mythos).

              Which doesn’t say much for asuran nanite (it was not one of my favorite episodes… it kicked the asuran down a peg in that one).

              That’s a big assumption that 8472’s body is anything like a normal humanoid.

              Replicator nanites would be instantly destroyed by the creature’s immune system much like the Borg nanites were and those were even tougher. And if the creatures and their ships are made of the same thing, the same would happen with nanites trying to infiltrate the bioships… they’re better off trying to destroy them.

              How exactly would the capture of one of the aliens and their vessel be an “end” for 8472 assuming of course it could be done as easily are you're suggesting? Having knowledge of the humans hasn’t helped them destroy earth. They probably have vast amounts of data on the wraith, yet that hasn’t really helped them in their fight with the waith has it. One on one, the asuran ships wouldn’t stand a chance against the bioship and there isn’t a shortage of bioships like there are asuran ships. The fleet of 40 Auroras would be decimated in the first wave of attacks followed by Asuras. Remember that these arn't just giant dumb aliens (well, at least not till they're seen again in the Trek universe and taken down a peg by the writers).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by a6346 View Post
                The replicator cell wouldnt work they just wouldnt the 8472 immune system is to strong and replicator cells wouldnt even get scratched.
                But replicators can possess people via other means, and neutronium nanites through the head... nope, the S8472 won't beat that.

                They can open subspace corridors whenever and wereever they like but still have warpdrive so they dont use it all the time obviosly it would give away there position if it did they could be tracked and enemy forces could move on them.
                The replicators would be able to follow the aliens in their dimension if the aliens would open these windows there.
                Not that it matters much, since after an assimilation of technology, the replicators would move to own the fluidic space as well.

                NIAM: In these tiny killing machines, the Ancients imbued an aggression that surpassed even that of their enemy. The technology allowed for organic assimilation and self-replication to increase their effectiveness ... and replicate they did.
                Depending on what organic means here, we're speaking about neutronium nanites getting inside bodies, and eventually assimilating lifeforms such as us, or the aliens.
                Look, it wasn't particularily hard for the asurans to create Weir, or clones of the F4.

                When a single species 8472 ship attacked voyager it knocked alot of the systems offline if it wasnt for warp engines they wouldnt have escaped thats just from a single shot and as i personally think that intrepid shields are on par with asgard shields then the BC-304 would be overun easy.
                The Voyager wasn't that brutally damaged either. The beam's most evident effect was messing up with the Voyager's impulse drives and putting her into spinning.

                I say there shields are that strong because theres no evidence of the other, starfleet shields are more advanced because they have the ability to modify there freqeuncy alowing them to adapt wereas asgard shields cant do that.
                Any proof that the Asgards actually need to do that?
                Besides, the Asgards know that the Goa'uld modulate their shield frequency to let matter streams pass through. It's very possible that the Asgards do the same when they beam people out or in.

                who's to say railguns would do any damage to species 8472 bioships all it would take is a shield and there useless even then they can heal themselves pretty fast.
                Because all evidence, thus far, points to mere blunt shocks literally ripping off bioships. I'm asking for more information on those ships, because it's a bit off, but thus far, it's the impression I get.
                The bioships have great dissipation abilities against phasers and radiations, but suck big times against kinetic shocks.
                The Borg and co would have quickly reverted to kinetic weapons if it was true. Well, you could say the same about the Asgards I suppose. Maybe the Borg, Federation and Asgards suffered from the same technological superego, and didn't even think about returning to primitive rock throwing techniques.

                That bioship that was destroyed by the cube ramming into it was destroyed because it had a ship the size of a wraith hive ship only more dense and bigger in hieght a cube is obviosly cube shaped and 1 side is the length of a wraith hive and seriosly what ship would survive being hit by a ship that size and from what we seen in other episodes it was only lightly damaged.
                The size of the Cube is irrelevant. If the bioship was as hard as steal and the Cube as weak as a bag of plumes, it wouldn't make a difference if the Cube was moon sized or not.
                What matters is that a bioship crashed into a cube, and we can see the relative velocity, which is far from impressive, so we need more info on this case, because it's a tad odd.

                I'll try to find videos of that incident.

                About the central bioship we dont know what happened to it it might have been destroyed but most likely it went about and destroyed more planets even then species 8472 still had more of them later in the episode 'scorpion' 7 is told the borg are underattack in another system something like 30 cubes several million drones and 5 planet's destroyed.
                We don't know the extent of the destruction, but it's possible we're dealing with other planet busters, but nothing preclude mere planet bombardments. That said, against the Borg, busting the whole planet would probably be way better.
                That has to suck for Stargate. That's still a lot of planet busters. Species relying on planet resources would be screwed. Humans, Jaffa, etc. The Replicators wouldn't care at all, though. They can live in the cold of space if they want.

                Sorry, the Replicators win.
                The Al'kesh is not a warship - Info on Naqahdah & Naqahdria - Firepower of Goa'uld staff weapons - Everything about Hiveships and the Wraith - An idea about what powers Destiny...

                Comment


                  #9
                  OK: We're using MW replicators. SInce earth has the tech to make them and reprogram them.

                  edit: Oragahn, if you find the said videos tehn please link htem, we want to have a look too

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
                    But replicators can possess people via other means, and neutronium nanites through the head... nope, the S8472 won't beat that.
                    How exactly is this relevant to 8472? Nanite hand through the head would equal one less nanite hand.


                    Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
                    The replicators would be able to follow the aliens in their dimension if the aliens would open these windows there.
                    Not that it matters much, since after an assimilation of technology, the replicators would move to own the fluidic space as well.
                    Which replicator are we talking about here? The last time I checked neither of the two had any interest in biological creatures being integrated into their own. 8472’s technology is integrated into their biology so unless the MW or PG replicators were trying to follow in the footsteps of the Borg I don’t see that scenario happening. Not that it would help anyways if they are able to resist assimilation from the Borg (who is a lot better at the organic assimilation than the replicators are) there’s little hope of the MW/PG replicators doing it.



                    Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
                    Depending on what organic means here, we're speaking about neutronium nanites getting inside bodies, and eventually assimilating lifeforms such as us, or the aliens.
                    Look, it wasn't particularily hard for the asurans to create Weir, or clones of the F4.
                    Creating Weir and the others were basically copy and paste for the replicator that is of course having had access to the originals. Neutronium hand into 8472 is likely to result in one handless replicator. Unless it’s otherwise revised in the series, it’s assumed that any chemical, biological, or technological attack on 8472 on the cellular level would result in immediate neutralization by their immune system.



                    Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
                    The Voyager wasn't that brutally damaged either. The beam's most evident effect was messing up with the Voyager's impulse drives and putting her into spinning.
                    Because the beam more than likely just grazed the ship… voyager would likely not survive a direct prolong beam hit.


                    Originally posted by Mister Oragahn
                    Because all evidence, thus far, points to mere blunt shocks literally ripping off bioships. I'm asking for more information on those ships, because it's a bit off, but thus far, it's the impression I get.
                    The bioships have great dissipation abilities against phasers and radiations, but suck big times against kinetic shocks.
                    The Borg and co would have quickly reverted to kinetic weapons if it was true. Well, you could say the same about the Asgards I suppose. Maybe the Borg, Federation and Asgards suffered from the same technological superego, and didn't even think about returning to primitive rock throwing techniques.
                    Evidence from?


                    I don’t recall ever seeing a bioship being hit by missile and the one bioship that collided with the cube shows up in a later episode with only minor damage.


                    There isn’t much info about the species.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MacTX View Post
                      How exactly is this relevant to 8472? Nanite hand through the head would equal one less nanite hand.
                      Terminator style, no fancy immune system uis gonna protect you form that.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Crazy Tom View Post
                        Terminator style, no fancy immune system uis gonna protect you form that.
                        so impaling 8472 with a metal hand?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by MacTX View Post
                          so impaling 8472 with a metal hand?
                          Yep. I'd find a pic ilustrating but i can't find one

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Crazy Tom View Post
                            Yep. I'd find a pic ilustrating but i can't find one
                            Like what RepliCarter did to Daniel?

                            That's not very efficient.

                            First you have to capture the alien, then kill it. By the time you're able to kill enough aliens to make a dent in their numbers, they would have long wipe out the races of the MW and PG.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by MacTX View Post
                              Like what RepliCarter did to Daniel?

                              That's not very efficient.

                              First you have to capture the alien, then kill it. By the time you're able to kill enough aliens to make a dent in their numbers, they would have long wipe out the races of the MW and PG.
                              More like shoving a spike thorugh you brain, that doesn't take that long.

                              Comment

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