PDA

View Full Version : timeline theory..



koshin31
March 11th, 2008, 04:47 AM
okay, I saw a few posts, and on other sites as well, I've got a question maybe some of you would like to think about as well.

After Rodney uploaded the program which would CHANGE THE PRESENT timeline, being the timeline which he was living in as an old man, would he and all the others, cease to exist?

Some people seem to think that after he uploaded the hologram program to help get John home, he'd go on with his life..

unless were thinking the time travel in stargate works like that of dragonball Z (lol I know) ..where the timeline stays the same, people go on with their lives, you just change the timeline of a different reality, a reality which was not upto the point in that that your reality was upto.

I'm just wondering, because Carter, nor Rodney, ever explained time travel.


How does time travel work in the stargate world?


BUT, if this is the case.. then shouldn't the timeline CHANGED, soon as rodney had the working THEORY.. because once he had the working theory, in TIME he was going to change the present, so before even DOING ANYTHING, shouldn't the present of CHANGED because of what he was GOING to do, soon as he developed this program?


...thats why I'm thinking seperate time lines... or would time only change once John travelled back in time? ...45,000 years later.... =|

time is a constant.
it should of changed as soon as rodney had the theory !

Roach
March 11th, 2008, 06:25 AM
In Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure one of them, Bill or Ted, needed their car keys... So they just "thought" that at some later point they would put them behind some bushes... and there they were!

But in pretty much any other show/movie there is just one time-line and just by thinking you are going to do something doesn't make it happen.



John Anderton: But it didn't fall. You caught it. The fact that you prevented it from happening doesnt change the fact that it was *going* to happen.

jenks
March 11th, 2008, 08:11 AM
=
time is a constant.
it should of changed as soon as rodney had the theory !

That logic is contradictory, if time were constant then Sheppard would of arrived back 12 days after he was sent to the future and Rodney wouldn't have need to think of anything in the first place. I'm pretty sure the writers use the non-liner idea of time travel, in other words once you travel back in time to create a new timeline and the one you left is either destroyed or carries on without you.

Lauriel
March 13th, 2008, 05:02 PM
I agree with Jenks. Once HoloRodney had succeeded in altering events, the old events no longer occured.

As to the Bill and Ted's theory, even though they thought of the keys and they were there, they had to remember to enact it ie: put the keys in the right spot later on. So it wasn't the thought that changed events, it was the action.

Think of it like this: If I think of eating chocolate, I don't get the extra calories. If I actually eat the chocolate, I do. It's the actions, not the thought, that changes the reality.

Also, I think to accept these altered timeline stories, you need to think of time as fluid, not linear. I don't profess to know the physics of it, but to accept the plot, you need to work with that theory. If you watch it with the theory that all time, past, present and future, are predetermined, the story won't work. Please note, I'm not talking actuality here, just which theory works within the story arc. :)

BubblingOverWithIdeas
March 13th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Koshin31 suggested that Rodney simply vanished after sending the hologram program, which makes no sense. The timeline changed when John was sent back to the past, and that was accomplished thousands of years after Rodney died. So he did have some more decades of life, until time was changed thousands of years later.

Versi
March 16th, 2008, 02:59 AM
Hi first time so here goes

The theory in this episode is flawed.
You can't change the past no matter how you much you try (not intentionally anyway).
Once you travel you travel back in time and change something ther is nolonger no reason for you to travel back in time (read H.G. Wells The Time Machine, or see the movie).
To go back to the episode if Sheppard actually changes the past there would be no reason for McKay to create the hologram any longer.

And i don't believe in different timeline's. Perhaps if the stargate in some way (not impossible, they have done much weirder things) the stargate sends him to another dimension but different timeline's is to unbelievable.

sorry if the english is a bit bad it's been a while

melfan
March 16th, 2008, 03:19 AM
John simply arrive and push the old timeline aside and simply make a new timline. The old is still there, now as an alternate version/universe.
Much like Weir did in season 1, Before I Sleep. The first time they came to Atlantis there where no failsafe, that only came to because Weir ended up in the past, and with help of Janus put things into action that would enable the expedition's survival. From that moment on, she created a new timeline and new reality. This is something like that.

Versi
March 16th, 2008, 04:03 AM
My point is the if you intentionally go back in time to change something and actually succeed then there would be no reason to go back in time now would there.

For an example if i went back in and killed Hitler before the second world war to prevent it then the war don't happen and i probably don't know who Hitler is so there will be no reason for me to go back in time to kill him, therefore i wont kill him so the war will still happen (or something like that).

My point is you can't change the past and you can't create new timeline's.
I can swallow allot of the science they throw at me in the stargate "saga" but to fiddle around with time isn't one of them.

melfan
March 16th, 2008, 08:16 AM
My point is the if you intentionally go back in time to change something and actually succeed then there would be no reason to go back in time now would there.

For an example if i went back in and killed Hitler before the second world war to prevent it then the war don't happen and i probably don't know who Hitler is so there will be no reason for me to go back in time to kill him, therefore i wont kill him so the war will still happen (or something like that).

My point is you can't change the past and you can't create new timeline's.
I can swallow allot of the science they throw at me in the stargate "saga" but to fiddle around with time isn't one of them.

Regarding your Hitler thing
Doesn't that mean that the assination failed? Or that a Doppelganger was shot or continued on the deeds?

andromeda_dan
March 16th, 2008, 08:38 AM
When Mackay found out that Shepard was sent 48,000 years into the future, why didn't he ask to use the puddlejumper with the time travel machine that Jack use to get Shepard back? If the archeologists can find the ZPM the SG1 hid in Egypt when they went back in time, then the puddlejumper would have also been found.

Versi
March 16th, 2008, 08:49 AM
Regarding your Hitler thing
Doesn't that mean that the assination failed? Or that a Doppelganger was shot or continued on the deeds?

No what i mean is that if i kill Hitler before he starts the war then he probably wont become a part of history (i don't thinks his paintings were good enough) so there will be no reason for me to go back in time and kill him, therefore i wont go back in time to kill him and if i don't go back in time to kill him he will still start the war. It's an unbreakable loop that can't be fixed.

And why he don't just use the puddlejumper with the time machine is a good question they seem to make alot of things harder than they need to be

wise one
March 16th, 2008, 09:00 AM
When Mackay found out that Shepard was sent 48,000 years into the future, why didn't he ask to use the puddlejumper with the time travel machine that Jack use to get Shepard back? If the archeologists can find the ZPM the SG1 hid in Egypt when they went back in time, then the puddlejumper would have also been found.

they destroyed it, although there should be one still on maybornes planet since at the end of moebius it was said that sg-1 were supposed to go there in 2 weeks time??

Invictus
March 16th, 2008, 09:00 AM
No what i mean is that if i kill Hitler before he starts the war then he probably wont become a part of history (i don't thinks his paintings were good enough) so there will be no reason for me to go back in time and kill him, therefore i wont go back in time to kill him and if i don't go back in time to kill him he will still start the war. It's an unbreakable loop that can't be fixed.

And why he don't just use the puddlejumper with the time machine is a good question they seem to make alot of things harder than they need to be

It's a little bit complicated, but I understand what you are trying to say. Good theory. It's a little bit like the grandpa paradox, right?:tealcanime49:

Versi
March 16th, 2008, 11:13 AM
It's a little bit complicated, but I understand what you are trying to say. Good theory. It's a little bit like the grandpa paradox, right?:tealcanime49:

Yea something like that

ACharmedAsgard
March 21st, 2008, 12:06 AM
It is the multi reality theory. Every time one decision is made it sprouts other realities in which a different decision was made. This theoretically means that there exists billions of different realities.

This means that Hologram Mckays universe would continue whilst Shep would create a hole new one. This means a time traveller would never visit the same Universe twice

SP90
March 21st, 2008, 10:49 AM
Its an endless cycle. You go back to change something which causes your reason for going back to disappear which means you don't go back which brings the reason for going back, back into existence and causes you to go back. ;)

I understand what you guys are trying to say. I personally subscribe to the multiverse theory where every decision that could be made will be made in one universe/reality or another. Therefore the "old Rodney" timeline continues to exist even after Sheppard goes back to change history with his future knowledge. It just boggles the mind to think too much about it. It's a TV show, just enjoy it. :)

mike-davies
March 22nd, 2008, 10:36 AM
Long time GateWorld fan but this is my first post so I’ll try and make it a good one!

It seems that there aren’t too many “Star Trek” fans here because this territory was well explored in Next Generation’s classic episode “Yesterday’s Enterprise” and I have seen no mention of that.

How to explain timelines? Well, firstly, you have to accept that it’s all theoretical as nobody knows whether time travel is possible. Many people believe that it cannot be – the usual argument being the grandfather paradox, that is, if I travel back in time and kill my own grandfather, how am I going to be born in order to travel back in time to kill my grandfather, etc, etc. However, if one makes a leap of faith and accepts that it may be possible, the most commonly accepted “theory” (the basis of many a plot device for SF writers and the one that solves the grandfather paradox) involves “timelines”, different versions of history that hinge on a causal event.

In this case, that event is not Sheppard being thrown 48,000 years into the future – his disappearance would not by itself have made that much of a difference. What does change things is his return to the present with knowledge of Teyla’s whereabouts significantly earlier than she would otherwise have been found (dead) after her baby had been born.

The point is that Rodney’s work in the “original” timeline to facilitate Sheppard’s return would have no effect until it was ultimately successful 48,000 years in the future. For example, it may have not worked because of circumstances that he was unable to foresee – a point that the holographic Rodney acknowledges when he and Sheppard discover that sand has blocked corridors in the lower levels of the city. Had that particular problem not been solved by Sheppard’s hazardous journey through the sandstorm, the “original” timeline would have continued, both up to and beyond Sheppard's arrival in the Atlantis of the future. Remember also that Rodney did not start his work until well after the 12 days that elapsed between Sheppard’s disappearance and his return to the present, thus proving that Sheppard did not return in that timeline.

However, when Rodney’s work was ultimately successful in the future, the effect was to return Sheppard to the present with knowledge of Teyla’s location – the causal event that will change the timeline and, presumably, the fate of the Pegasus galaxy.

The question of whether the “new” timeline will replace the “original” or whether they will co-exist in alternative universes is another matter! Who knows?

Roll on Season Five!

TheShipper
March 26th, 2008, 10:47 AM
To go back a few posts.
They knew Sheppard was sent 48000 years into the future, but they didn't know the exact time he would get there. So if they did use the time-traveling jumper (if it still exists), they wouldn't know when he would appear thru the gate. So they could possibly spend years trying to find him and never succeed.

bobshort400
April 3rd, 2008, 01:40 AM
Say you built a time machine in your time line and you wanted to kill Hitler. you would go back in time kill him. then a new time line starts above your time line witch would shift down over you time line and make a new one.
now one would now hilter but you because you are not form the new time line . back to a new future to see what has happen .It 2008 and the us is gone britain rules the would .

ps future can be changed but at a cost, (small or big)