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View Full Version : They nerfed the Asgard beam?



Zamboni
March 9th, 2008, 12:34 PM
I thought the Asgard beam is the "pwnz all" weapon spanning two galaxies... The best "one hit wonder" of all time! What happened? Now the Wraith ships need TWO HITS to die? And some of them can even withstand it?

Shouldn't the Phoenix just cut through all the Wraith like hot knife through butter? Now it's like hot knife through... frozen butter that's really really thick and cool the knife mid-way and it gets stuck... Then exploded, and butter fly everywhere...

They should totally fit two Asgard "pwnz" beam on each ship... Double the combat capacity... In fact, fit two of everything on there... Two shield generators, two ZPM... And clone a Carter then put her there too!!! I mean, we've got clones running everywhere anyway.

And whatever happened to the Ori Daniel Cloak upgrade? If you want to "hit and run", use cloak!!!

While they're at it, put some Ancient drones on the ships too, forget those useless missiles! They never do anything!!!

Drones >>> Missiles, 'nuff said.

PG15
March 9th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Hooray for exploding butter knife! :D

As for the beam; while, it's unfortunate the fandom raised it to such a high level when all we know is that they can cut through Ori ships (and Asuran Auroras) pretty easily, while we have no clue as to how the Wraith hives will fair with them. Pre-judgement, if anything.

Wayston
March 9th, 2008, 12:44 PM
you also have to make a distinction between ZPM powered ships and not ZPM powered ships

for example you can bet that the ori invasion force all had ZPM's comming out of their ears and that is why they were so good

I'm sure that without them all of the show's ships are defeatable if the opponent is throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them with a reasonable amount of technology installed, regardless of their affiliation

Zamboni
March 9th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Hooray for exploding butter knife! :D

As for the beam; while, it's unfortunate the fandom raised it to such a high level when all we know is that they can cut through Ori ships (and Asuran Auroras) pretty easily, while we have no clue as to how the Wraith hives will fair with them. Pre-judgement, if anything.
Exploding butter knives are no joke... Not only do you get cut by the splinters, but also grease everywhere... You lick the butter drops and go "mmm... sweet creamery butter" and then BAM! You cut your tongue on a piece of metal.

Anyway, if the beam can cut through both Ori and Ancient ships, I'm pretty sure that means it can cut through Wraith ships. Even if you argue that the Wraith is somehow more advanced than the Ancients, there's no way they can be more advanced than the Ori...

The Ori pwnz all!!! Well, except Asgard beam... So in closing, the natural order of the galaxies is this:

Chuck Norris > Asgard Beam > Ori Toilets > Ancient Boats > Wraith Ships

Therefore I say clone Chuck Norris and use him to power the Asgard beam, then we'll be invincible!!! Muwhahahahahah~~~!!!

Xaeden
March 9th, 2008, 12:48 PM
It all depends on where you hit the ship. Being able to cut through something does not mean the ship is destroyed, especially a ship as massive as a Wraith Hive. The trick is to have it hit a location where it can cause secondary explosions. If you don't, it's like firing it into the dirt. You'll create a nice hole, but the beam itself is not capable of creating its own explosion so that's all you'll be left it. That doesn't mean those beams aren't insanely powerful, it just means you have to stay in combat a little longer to get the job done and since Sam was fighting a solo war she was trying to avoid any damage. Normally an Earth ship would fly in, take them both out, and return to Atlantis to make repairs.

As for the cloak, Merlin was the one who did it and it was explained that having a ZPM helped. Nobody has any idea how he did it, let alone how to do it under lesser power requirements so the Oddyssey will remain special in that regard for some time.

The same goes for drones. Sure, it would be nice for Earth ships to carry a supply of drones, but first you have to build an Ancient platform on the ship which a Human can interface with. However, they have no idea how any of that works and no instructions on how to build one.

PG15
March 9th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Well, no arguing with the Chuck Norris part. And really, if you try, he'll materialize behind you and roundhouse kick you to death.

But I think the Hives' massive size and armor contained the beams somewhat.

Zamboni
March 9th, 2008, 01:00 PM
So why don't they just fire the beam across the width of the ship or something? Surely if you cut a ship in half, it doesn't matter if there are secondary explosions...

And we still have no idea how the drones work?! What the hell has Rodney been doing? Inventing a new sandwich to go with his coffee?

Ouroboros
March 9th, 2008, 01:00 PM
You can see the nerf happen right on screen to. The first hive they kill takes 2 hits then blows up, then they shoot at the second one and rather than make it half dead they get minimal damage.

Then they have to run away because the Wraith have those nasty little high velocity nerf Darts and Carter had good intel that one of those ***** hivequeens liked to put them in the freezer.

Xaeden
March 9th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Anyway, if the beam can cut through both Ori and Ancient ships, I'm pretty sure that means it can cut through Wraith ships. Even if you argue that the Wraith is somehow more advanced than the Ancients, there's no way they can be more advanced than the Ori...

The Ori pwnz all!!! Well, except Asgard beam... So in closing, the natural order of the galaxies is this:

Chuck Norris > Asgard Beam > Ori Toilets > Ancient Boats > Wraith Ships

Therefore I say clone Chuck Norris and use him to power the Asgard beam, then we'll be invincible!!! Muwhahahahahah~~~!!!

Actually one wouldn't argue that the Wraith are more advanced than the Ori. One would argue that the Wraith designed their ships with better armor where as the Ori had no reason to do so since they designed insanely powerful shields and those beams are quite capable of taking out shields. As such an Ori ship is rather weak without its shields. A single nuke against its hull would take it out (it even has windows - the wraith do not) but a Wraith ship can survive a nuke because it made up for its lack of shield technology by developing a stronger hull. This doesn't make the Wraith more advanced as shield capable races do not have to worry about hull strength as much.

Regardless, the hull doesn't appear to be the issue here, it seems to have to do with the size (which PG15 mentioned). If that beam goes through any ship but does not hit critical systems or somewhere that will cause secondary explosions the ship will survive the attack via the hole in the dirt anology. Someone mentioned in another thread that you can see an Asuran ship survive one hit by a beam, but be taken out by the next. It's doubtful that it just took minimal amount of damage, but if it sealed off those areas there's no reason it couldn't function to some degree and later be repaired.


So why don't they just fire the beam across the width of the ship or something? Surely if you cut a ship in half, it doesn't matter if there are secondary explosions...

And we still have no idea how the drones work?! What the hell has Rodney been doing? Inventing a new sandwich to go with his coffee?

Because we have not seen that those beams are capable of moving once fired. From what we have seen thus far they appear to be limited in that once they are aimed at something they cannot be moved.

As for drones we saw Mckay fire one using only his computer in The Tower. However, in order to be able to destroy a ship you need to be able to fire a swarm and in order to fire a swarm you need a control chair that allows you to interface your mind with the drones. Being able to create a device like that which interacts with one's brain in ways they cannot begin to understand is a bit complicated and totally unbelievable for them to master at this stage.

Myles
March 9th, 2008, 01:06 PM
Actually one wouldn't argue that the Wraith are more advanced than the Ori. One would argue that the Wraith designed their ships with better armor where as the Ori had no reason to do so since they designed insanely powerful shields and those beams are quite capable of taking out shields. As such an Ori ship is rather weak without its shields. A single nuke against its hull would take it out (it even has windows - the wraith do not) but a Wraith ship can survive a nuke because it made up for its lack of shield technology by developing a stronger hull. This doesn't make the Wraith more advanced as shield capable races do not have to worry about hull strength as much.

Regardless, the hull doesn't appear to be the issue here, it seems to have to do with the size (which PG15 mentioned). If that beam goes through any ship but does not hit critical systems or hits somewhere that will cause secondary explosions the ship will survive the attack via the hole in the dirt anology. Someone mentioned in another thread that you can see an Asuran ship survive one hit by a beam, but be taken out by the next. It's doubtful that it just took minimal amount of damage, but if it sealed off those areas there's no reason it couldn't function to some degree and later be repaired.

QFT

Zamboni
March 9th, 2008, 01:16 PM
Because we have not seen that those beams are capable of moving once fired. From what we have seen thus far they appear to be limited in that once they are aimed at something they cannot be moved.

As for drones we saw Mckay fire one using only his computer in The Tower. However, in order to be able to destroy a ship you need to be able to fire a swarm and in order to fire a swarm you need a control chair that allows you to interface your mind with the drones. Being able to create a device like that which interacts with one's brain in ways they cannot begin to understand is a bit complicated and totally unbelievable for them to master at this stage.
Arg... Stupid Asgard and their non-swiveling beams! Their lack of sexual reproduction will be their downfall!!!

I don't think it's necessary to have a swarm of drones to kill a ship. Back in SG1 O'Neill took out a Goa'uld mothership with just one drone...

Rodney created an actual replicator capable of self-reasoning and learning, but can't make a drone firing device...? *sigh*...

So basically you're saying that Wraith ships are like the B-17's of the Pegasus? While Ori ships are like... Triplanes...? (but with a super beam)

Which is more powerful, the Asgard beam, or the Ori beam?

Xaeden
March 9th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Arg... Stupid Asgard and their non-swiveling beams! Their lack of sexual reproduction will be their downfall!!!

I don't think it's necessary to have a swarm of drones to kill a ship. Back in SG1 O'Neill took out a Goa'uld mothership with just one drone...

Rodney created an actual replicator capable of self-reasoning and learning, but can't make a drone firing device...? *sigh*...

So basically you're saying that Wraith ships are like the B-17's of the Pegasus? While Ori ships are like... Triplanes...? (but with a super beam)

Which is more powerful, the Asgard beam, or the Ori beam?

I think it was two drones, I could be wrong. In any case, he got lucky. He fired, ran out of drones, asked Carter what now and she said lets hope we get lucky and it hits an area that will cause a secondary explosion. That's exactly what happened. If that was easily repeatable they could just send cloaked jumpers to a planet whenever they detect a Wraith ship approaching one and use it to destroy the ship. But on top of it being a luck factor, Wraith ships are less fragile than Goa'uld ships. Even after being hit by a Mark III and receiving massive damage from secondary explosions after the Daedalus pounded the dart bays, it wasn't destroyed and repaired itself enough to be flyable back to Atlantis a short time later. Meanwhile if you watch the drones destroying the other Hive you can actually see that some drones had enough time to go into the Hive, come out of the Hive, and go back in before the Hive blew up.

As for the replicator - All Rodney did was use a device that already existed to make the replicator. He did not do so from scratch, although we later see that Humans back on Earth managed to do just that. In any case, you're comparing apples and oranges. If he had a device that made control chairs for him out of raw materials, that comparison would work, but instead he'd have to design the whole thing himself with no instructions and no aids whatsoever. That's crazy. It's like trying to get someone from a thousand years ago to build a car. If they stumbled upon a factory that had the supplies ready and produced one just by pushing some buttons that would be like what Rodney did to make the replicator. But, if they had nothing but the car, they are not going to be able to figure out how to build one and they won't even be capable of building the parts required as you need other advanced machines for that. For building a control chair, you'd first have to learn how it interacts with the brain, you'd have to have a far better understanding of how the brain works than we do in modern times, you'd have to have the raw materials, (such as the crystals, which they do not know how to replicate and may not be able to take from other parts as the ones for the chair are probably unique to the chair) you'd have to know the mathematics involved, (which may be beyond his current understanding) and so on.

It's a complicated piece of technology which is just way beyond them right now. All this Ancient tech was made over millions of years by people who had a far better understanding of the universe given that their brains were so much more advanced. What little Earth has been able to create they have done so with extensive aids. Naquadah generators, were built after a painful process where Carter was shown step by step their construction and operation. Ships were made after hacking into Goa'uld computers and tweaking with technology that was easier for them to understand. The result was a very Earth ship with Earth weapons and Earth computers. Besides the use of crystals, engines, and shields the rest of the ship design was all modern Earth tech. Meanwhile the Asgard showed them how to replicate the technology they were given and so on. Nothing they can produce so far has been done by magically looking at a device and saying, "we can make this."

2ndgenerationalteran
March 9th, 2008, 03:42 PM
since when was it the best weapon? Everything they showed us made its strength ambiguous.

An-Alteran
March 9th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Another factor:

Orii ships are 1/3rd the size of a Hive and even they took 1 or two hits of Asgard beams on the hull after the shield failed before they were destroyed.

So you all are compairing apples and oranges.

What I thought was odd was that she retreated. The weapons performed fine.

kirmit
March 9th, 2008, 04:14 PM
Actually one wouldn't argue that the Wraith are more advanced than the Ori. One would argue that the Wraith designed their ships with better armor where as the Ori had no reason to do so since they designed insanely powerful shields and those beams are quite capable of taking out shields. As such an Ori ship is rather weak without its shields. A single nuke against its hull would take it out (it even has windows - the wraith do not) but a Wraith ship can survive a nuke because it made up for its lack of shield technology by developing a stronger hull. This doesn't make the Wraith more advanced as shield capable races do not have to worry about hull strength as much.

The Ori ship took 2 or 3 hits to it's hull after the shields had failed, same as the armoured wraith ships so the Ori ships must've been armoured pretty well. The first Ori ship was only blown up quickly because they hit the engines which caused a massive explosion. Also the Oddy had a ZPM plugged in when taking on the Ori ships, that may of affected how strong the beam was, it did look more refined than the current ones, which would mean the Ori hull is even stonger than wraith. Oh yeah also the Hives do have windows, you can see them all over the ship and actually see Michael looking out of one in his quarters during 'No Mans Land'.

Xaeden
March 9th, 2008, 04:33 PM
The Ori ship took 2 or 3 hits to it's hull after the shields had failed, same as the armoured wraith ships so the Ori ships must've been armoured pretty well. The first Ori ship was only blown up quickly because they hit the engines which caused a massive explosion. Also the Oddy had a ZPM plugged in when taking on the Ori ships, that may of affected how strong the beam was, it did look more refined than the current ones, which would mean the Ori hull is even stonger than wraith. Oh yeah also the Hives do have windows, you can see them all over the ship and actually see Michael looking out of one in his quarters during 'No Mans Land'.

Actually, my argument had to do with the size of the ship and if you hit systems that will cause secondary explosions. Same as you. The part that you quoted was my explaination of what one might say in regard to what Zamboni was discussing, but further down I say that I don't think the hull is an issue here at all (it only is in regards to other types of weapons). Any sizable ship can take a hit from an Asgard beam and survive depending on where you hit it given that the beams don't generate their own explosions as I mentioned (their power has to do with their ability to quickly breach an enemy's defenses) and the more massive the ship, the less likely you will be to hit such an area.

Also, yes I'm inclined to think the ZPM played a factor in beam strength as well, but I don't see how it does anything in regards to how quickly an unshielded ship is destroyed. Rather I suspect that it just affects how quickly those beams can take down a shield. However, until we see a ZPM powered 304 attack a replicator warship or until we see a regular 304 attack an Ori ship (which isn't bound to happen) we can't know for sure.

Anyway, thanks for the info regarding windows. I completely missed that and will go back and look.

andy tyler
March 9th, 2008, 04:37 PM
The cloak only works on a ZPM powered ship.

DANIEL: we're cloaked
O'NEILL: the ship doesnt have that
DANIEL: it does now, having a ZPM helps

PG15
March 9th, 2008, 04:56 PM
What I thought was odd was that she retreated. The weapons performed fine.

Same. I figured that she may have wanted to avoid taxing the shields since they were basically going from ship to ship to ship to...etc.

Zamboni
March 9th, 2008, 05:08 PM
On a separate note, why is it that the Wraith weapon blobs are so accurate now? In almost all Wraith-to-Wraith battles, we see the blobs flying slowly and inaccurate, and the Wraith ships are always next to each other in close proximity...

Did Michael's transformation into human make him realize all the Wraith's faults or something? The Wraiths are now equipped with super ships!!!

And Rodney didn't just "push a button" to make a replicator... Not only that, it seems to contradict what Niam (or whatever his name was) told Weir...

Didn't the Asurans come about after the replicator cells bonded together by themselves to imitate the Lantians?

Anyway, it's Rodney McKay! He can make a computer out of rubber bands and tape!!! (or is that MacGyver?)

He ought to invent a weapon that fires ancient drones that shoots Asgard beams!!! Also it'd be fueled by coffee, so we get a running joke of him choosing between victory and his coffee supply...

SoulReaver
March 9th, 2008, 07:20 PM
I thought the Asgard beam is the "pwnz all" weapon spanning two galaxies... The best "one hit wonder" of all time! What happened? Now the Wraith ships need TWO HITS to die? And some of them can even withstand it?uh you're kidding right ? you are kidding, right ? right ?

have you seen the size of a hive ? these things are ****in huge. a 304 is like a gnat next to these things. they can survive a direct hit from a naquadah-enhanced nuke. the very idea that only 3 hits from the asgard beams (which would look like needles if scaled correctly btw), only powered by mere naquadah generators at that, could destroy a hive is the apex of absurdity not to mention inconsistency :mckay:

I reckon that hive was already damaged by a previous pass. this at least would make some sense. this would need to be confirmed on JM's blog though (ie. PG, we need your services ^_^)

SoulReaver
March 9th, 2008, 07:24 PM
but I agree the wraith guns were unusually accurate - although they were also kinda underpowered, judging by how long a 304's shield could sustain concentrated fire from 3 hives (in the end when sam rammed the phoenix into that hive, the shields were still up - wtf...)

2ndgenerationalteran
March 10th, 2008, 01:45 AM
Rewatching it they hit in such a way that they significantly destroyed structural integrity. They hit the sides of that center gap in the hull making it longer and a final shot on the side pretty much turning the "O" shape into a "C" twising it till it blew up. Second ship not so much on target, but for the first one they had more than enough time to target. Doesnt exactly have to be a super powerful weapon if you know how to use the specific weapon to its specific advantages which they pulled off when they had the first strike and time.

Zamboni
March 10th, 2008, 02:53 AM
uh you're kidding right ? you are kidding, right ? right ?

have you seen the size of a hive ? these things are ****in huge. a 304 is like a gnat next to these things.
Size matters not...

Or maybe she lied...

Konrad9
March 10th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Size matters not...

Or maybe she lied...

If you're in a Hive and your primary systems are hundreds of meters apart from each other, you're not going to get the kind of chain reactions, catalysts, or wildcat destabilization of the ship's engines.

Likewise, if you're in a 304 and your primary systems are right on top of each other, one of Q's class-4 pen grenades will wreck you.

Ranlier
March 10th, 2008, 08:18 AM
The Asgard Beam weapons, it should be noted, are by their nature Anti-Sheild weapons- which makes them perfect against Auroras and Ori motherships (both of which rely nearly entirely on sheilds for their defense.

Hives, however, are based on strong regenerative hulls. Its like stabbing a person with a pencil- it WILL take more than a few hits to take them down.

Drones were created to function more like bullets, tearing through hulls and sheilds alike, which is why they're more effective.

jasminaGo
March 10th, 2008, 08:33 AM
The Asgard Beam weapons, it should be noted, are by their nature Anti-Sheild weapons- which makes them perfect against Auroras and Ori motherships (both of which rely nearly entirely on sheilds for their defense.

Hives, however, are based on strong regenerative hulls. Its like stabbing a person with a pencil- it WILL take more than a few hits to take them down.

Drones were created to function more like bullets, tearing through hulls and sheilds alike, which is why they're more effective.

Unless you hit a person in the heart, or in this case an immportant system which will cause all other systems to shutdown or overload.

MechaThor
March 10th, 2008, 09:34 AM
I thought the Asgard beam is the "pwnz all" weapon spanning two galaxies... The best "one hit wonder" of all time! What happened? Now the Wraith ships need TWO HITS to die? And some of them can even withstand it?

Shouldn't the Phoenix just cut through all the Wraith like hot knife through butter? Now it's like hot knife through... frozen butter that's really really thick and cool the knife mid-way and it gets stuck... Then exploded, and butter fly everywhere...

They should totally fit two Asgard "pwnz" beam on each ship... Double the combat capacity... In fact, fit two of everything on there... Two shield generators, two ZPM... And clone a Carter then put her there too!!! I mean, we've got clones running everywhere anyway.

And whatever happened to the Ori Daniel Cloak upgrade? If you want to "hit and run", use cloak!!!

While they're at it, put some Ancient drones on the ships too, forget those useless missiles! They never do anything!!!

Drones >>> Missiles, 'nuff said.

Ok so lets have Earth have a beam weapon that wins EVERYTIME! Like that won't get boring!

The Wraith are Atlantis main villian and am sure they will be around for a long time to come, If we could beat them so fast there would be no fear that the wraith are any danger!
Also Hives are pretty dam big, can self heal and have been know to take a few gd hits in the past!

I like it that the Hives can stand there own unlike them one hit wonder Ha'taks.

Supergateship1
March 10th, 2008, 12:37 PM
Seems to me, the asgard beam weapons are powerfull, but it depends on where you hit the hive ship, if you hit round about the center, where the power seems to come from, and you get lucky them 3 shots will take it out completly, how ever if grace the back end of it to the side, it wont do too much damage to the massive thing. The best place to take out a hive with one shot would have to be the dart bays, afterall, judging at what the rail guns donw in no man's land, you fly in super fast, get yourself side by side and aim a running shot across the bay, and if your lucky you will get min damage and take out the ship in one shot or completly disable it, making it easy to kill in your own time, special good if you have 2 of more hives ships your in a fight with.

or you could just beam a shaped nuke over to outside the dart bays and sit back and watch it go boom.

Zamboni
March 10th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Ok so lets have Earth have a beam weapon that wins EVERYTIME! Like that won't get boring!Earth already wins every time... Even without the Asgard Pwner Beam.

And whoever said pencil can't kill, hasn't seen The Bourne Identity... Though that was a pen, not pencil, less splinters this way.

nx01a
March 10th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I always loved the Shadow Vessel slicer beams from Babylon 5. Cut ships right in half in one sweep. Alas, the Asgard plasma beams can't do that.

I'm quite happy with the power of the beams and their effectiveness against Hive Ships. Two shots looked like they effective crippled one, the third shot was just to make sure the job was done.

Xaeden
March 10th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Earth already wins every time... Even without the Asgard Pwner Beam.

And whoever said pencil can't kill, hasn't seen The Bourne Identity... Though that was a pen, not pencil, less splinters this way.

Earth wins the important iconic battles that determine the faith of something that would result in it making it hard for the show to continue without. However, there are a lot of smaller battles in-between where that is not the case. Earth ships frequently have to retreat from battles, are badly damaged, and in two rare cases so far they've been destroyed. His point was that if Earth ships could automatically destroy the enemy without any effort whatsoever the show would become boring. Ship to ship battle scenes wouldn't last very long and there would be less of an element of danger as you'd expect a 304 to come out ahead unless overwhelmed by much greater numbers. But it would be odd to suddenly encounter Wraith fleets in every ship episode when they've spent the last 5 years establishing that they are too divided for that and cannot support traveling in large groups for very long as they survive by going from planet to planet and they cannot get enough food that way to supply larger numbers.

rarocks24
March 10th, 2008, 03:25 PM
I thought the Asgard beam is the "pwnz all" weapon spanning two galaxies... The best "one hit wonder" of all time! What happened? Now the Wraith ships need TWO HITS to die? And some of them can even withstand it?

Shouldn't the Phoenix just cut through all the Wraith like hot knife through butter? Now it's like hot knife through... frozen butter that's really really thick and cool the knife mid-way and it gets stuck... Then exploded, and butter fly everywhere...

They should totally fit two Asgard "pwnz" beam on each ship... Double the combat capacity... In fact, fit two of everything on there... Two shield generators, two ZPM... And clone a Carter then put her there too!!! I mean, we've got clones running everywhere anyway.

And whatever happened to the Ori Daniel Cloak upgrade? If you want to "hit and run", use cloak!!!

While they're at it, put some Ancient drones on the ships too, forget those useless missiles! They never do anything!!!

Drones >>> Missiles, 'nuff said.

The issue with that is, the Aurora class ships are significantly smaller than the Wraith vessels. And didn't it take a couple of shots to KO an Ori vessel as well?

JSPuddlejumper
March 10th, 2008, 06:04 PM
3 shots to kill a 11km Wraith Hives is amazing. That is destroying a Hive in 2 SECONDS of fire. Which is about what I predicted. Which is about what I predicted for a Ori ship fire as well (2-3 shots).

The beam cannot destroy the Hive in 1 shot because it is short burst, no where close to a sustained beam. The beam would need go on for 3-4 km's to dissect the Hive width wise.

Why did Sam retreat: Only reason I could see was the hit and run tactics. Moving from 1 ship to another without 1 engagement taxing the ship too much. Because the 304 could have easily destroyed both Hives, but may have to go in for repairs after the second engagement. That 'minimal' damage comment/farce aside.

A 304 (minus beinge ambushed) is equaled to about 3 Hives (just as I predicted as well), regular 304 is not the uber Odyssey. A regular 304's shields strength is quite a bit less with the beams eating so much power. Now if they get drones on there, shield strength will less. The ZPM Odyssey should be able to take on 8-12 Hives at once, depending on the scenario.

That is why the ZPMless Asuran Aurora's, and Larren's Aurora's shields were not all that great.

Ori ships are far superior to the Wraith Hives and superior to the Aurora's. Ori ships >=Best Ancient build ZPM Aurora's.

2ndgenerationalteran
March 10th, 2008, 08:11 PM
Larrem's Aurora's shields were doing just fine, the crew was completely reserved in BAMSR and in no indication of stress at all, only that they just got a new objective. No sound of impacts to shields, nothing.

Zamboni
March 10th, 2008, 11:26 PM
Errm... Who's Larrem?

Also, I wonder if a drone could go in from the stern of a Wraith ship and then come out the bow of the ship (or vice versa)... Would that equal automatic kill?

I mean, that's like the Titanic right? It's gotta hit something important... The drones are fast, guided super missiles, why do they always waste them like P-90 bullets and send hundreds flying in circles? Just send a couple up the enemy wazoo! That'll kill them good!

2ndgenerationalteran
March 11th, 2008, 12:07 AM
Larren* the traveler chick.

And theoretically a drone could plow legnth wise through a hive, in the rising it blasted through several hundred meters of ice without taking much damage.

jasminaGo
March 11th, 2008, 02:46 AM
Larren* the traveler chick.

And theoretically a drone could plow legnth wise through a hive, in the rising it blasted through several hundred meters of ice without taking much damage.

You mean Larrin?

And you're right about the drones.

nicks_hammer
March 11th, 2008, 04:20 AM
I could be wrong but I don't think that Asuran Auroras are on the same level as an Aurora with anicents controlling it. I have been wrong once though.

Avenger
March 11th, 2008, 09:34 AM
Earth already wins every time... Even without the Asgard Pwner Beam.

And whoever said pencil can't kill, hasn't seen The Bourne Identity... Though that was a pen, not pencil, less splinters this way.

Yes, you can kill someone with a pencil, if you hit a critical part of the body with your first couple of stabs; the heart, the aorta, the carotid or femoral artery, etc. But of you just manage to stab someone in the arm or leg, or any where else, the person will not die right away and will be able to recover with the proper medical care (fleeing and repairing).

Zamboni
March 11th, 2008, 11:22 AM
You mean Larrin?

And you're right about the drones.

Ok so why don't they use the drone that way? They're always wasting ammo and then complain about the drone reserves...

LOL @ Larrin the traveler chick... For a second there I was like "huh? What traveler chick"? LOL

I wonder if Shepard actually visits the chicks who slept with him in the past? Did he ever go back to visit that ancient chick who was stuck protecting that planet? I mean, why doesn't he just go back (with some roses maybe) and ask her about the Asurans and stuff? She's already been sentenced to be on that planet forever, what else could the Ancients do to her if she revealed some info to John? Give her a sex change?

Avenger
March 11th, 2008, 11:40 AM
So, who has Sheppard actually slept with? Or is his sleeping with these women something that you came up with in your head?

jenks
March 11th, 2008, 01:36 PM
Chaya, Teer, Mara...

Avenger
March 11th, 2008, 06:23 PM
And again, did he actually sleep with them? Is there any evidence that he did? There isn't, and that's my point.

jonos101
March 11th, 2008, 09:00 PM
And again, did he actually sleep with them? Is there any evidence that he did? There isn't, and that's my point.

if he was a man he would

2ndgenerationalteran
March 12th, 2008, 01:09 AM
^Chaya, really?

On topic, as to why they dont use it as killer squids of doom minus the explosions, less damage i guess. Drones may have been effective but penetrating and emerging on the opposite end of a ship is gonna take time and explosions would do the damage much more efficiently.

jenks
March 12th, 2008, 04:24 PM
And again, did he actually sleep with them? Is there any evidence that he did? There isn't, and that's my point.

Oh come on, what more evidence would there be?

PG15
March 12th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I'd say at least a make out session that didn't end when the scene ended, if you know what I mean. ;)

Zamboni
March 12th, 2008, 11:49 PM
I'd say at least a make out session that didn't end when the scene ended, if you know what I mean. ;)You mean like the Sam sex scenes?

But seriously, he definitely did more than just idle chatting with both the Ancient chick and the Volcano chick (I'm terrible with names, especially made up ones)...

I mean, are we suppose to think that Shepard made out with them and then just never called? The guy rarely goes back to Earth and there's little sign of fraternization among his peers so he's gotta be channeling his energy elsewhere...

It's not like he's busy *every* day... It just seems that way because every episode needs some excitement.

I mean, there's no evidence of him taking showers every day either, are you saying he *never* showers?

I think sex on Atlantis is just one of those "behind the scenes" events that go on but never shown.

Wow... This thread got way sidetracked... Oh well, where there's violence, there's sex. Besides, we were already talking about ship-length penetration anyway.

jonos101
March 13th, 2008, 03:34 AM
maybe we need a new thread " Who John Shepperd Slept With "

Jumper_One
March 13th, 2008, 01:37 PM
maybe we need a new thread " Who John Shepperd Slept With "

how about a poll? :P

jelgate
March 13th, 2008, 04:28 PM
how about a poll? :P

Make sure Jumper_One is a poll option:P

Jumper_One
March 13th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Make sure Jumper_One is a poll option:P

:eek:
:lol:

jonos101
March 14th, 2008, 03:06 AM
Make sure Jumper_One is a poll option:P

what happened between Jumper_One and shep is his businese :D

jelgate
March 14th, 2008, 05:32 AM
what happened between Jumper_One and shep is his businese :D

Not anymore.

*looks at hidden cameras recording Jumper_One*

Jumper_One
March 14th, 2008, 02:26 PM
what happened between Jumper_One and shep is his businese :D

indeed it is :S :eek:


Not anymore.

*looks at hidden cameras recording Jumper_One*

err...

nx01a
March 14th, 2008, 02:34 PM
ship-length penetration
Am I the only one who caught that? :P

The strength of the beams is pretty much what it should be, 2 beams to cripple a Hive, 3 to destroy it. One beam blast 'transphasic torpedo'-type stuff wouldn't make the battles any fun.

And drones're my fave weapons til the end, but the Asgard plasma beam weapons are more time and resource-saving than a swarm of drones. Not as pretty, but more effective. You'd need a swarm of a dozen or more drones to destroy a Hive, and you're most likely not getting any of those drones back. Compared to two 2 second beams, that's mighty wasteful. Save the drones for the Asurans. :P

Zamboni
March 14th, 2008, 06:20 PM
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2027/dvdfz1.jpg

Jumper_One
March 14th, 2008, 06:23 PM
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2027/dvdfz1.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

2ndgenerationalteran
March 14th, 2008, 06:27 PM
oh thats gonna be pulled off so soon but that is deserving of some green :lol:

Arcturus8
March 14th, 2008, 08:31 PM
I don't think it's necessary to have a swarm of drones to kill a ship. Back in SG1 O'Neill took out a Goa'uld mothership with just one drone...


Actually I am 98% certain it was two drones

Zamboni
March 14th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Actually I am 98% certain it was two dronesWell still a lot less than either the Aurora's drone swarm or the swarm that took down Anubis...

I mean, if they do it a couple times then that's fine, it serves the dramatic effects and because they're new at the technology.

But come on... Look at how the Asurans used them: one drone for one jumper (the one chasing Sheppard around the city). I say in season five they should fit drones on the 403's...

JSPuddlejumper
March 15th, 2008, 08:07 AM
^Plot shield and plot holes.

Don't think too much about it

Xaeden
March 16th, 2008, 06:03 AM
Well still a lot less than either the Aurora's drone swarm or the swarm that took down Anubis...

The drone swarm that took down Anubis actually took down his fleet of 30+ ships, along with his own flagship which is bigger than motherships. Where as the two drones fired from the jumper only took out one mothership and again, it was an extremely lucky shot. It just happened to hit and explode in the right area to cause an explosion that was capable of destroying the entire ship. If they continued to fire two drones randomly into every mothership and waited for it to blow up, they'd be in big trouble as in almost every case it would result in giving the mothership time to fire back while whoever fired the drones scratched their heads in the moments before being blown up.