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View Full Version : He's back!!!!! What do you think about it?



Skydiver
March 2nd, 2008, 06:37 PM
FOr better or worse, carson is back. What do you think about how his return was handled?

Fantastic, about time.
Not bad. But kinda weird.
I"m glad but...Did they HAVE to do it this way?
Dude, why did they even bother?

haloplayer
March 2nd, 2008, 06:40 PM
Which Carson? The Original Carson died in Sunday and is not coming back. Can you say Clone Carson so we can distinguish between the 2?

PG15
March 2nd, 2008, 06:43 PM
It's obviously the Clone Carson since, as you said, the original never returned.

And I loved it. PM was brilliant in this episode, the clone angle gives him a greater palett now to work with, especially since he's been with Michael for 2 years. I can't wait to see more!

Jumper_One
March 2nd, 2008, 06:46 PM
I thought it was awesome to see Carson again and I'm very much looking forward to s5

Jeffala
March 2nd, 2008, 06:48 PM
I was pretty ambivalent about Carson's death (yeah, it was sad, but it didn't raise my cackles or anything) and felt pretty much the same about his clone's appearance.

I keep expecting him to be evil, but I guess that's too cliché.

Briangate78
March 2nd, 2008, 06:51 PM
So when Thor downloads himself into a new body is he no longer Thor since he is a clone? ;)

I am glad Carson is back in some form, even if he is a clone of the original, he is an exact copy with just the DNA flaw which I am sure they will fix next season.

Killdeer
March 2nd, 2008, 06:52 PM
I'm happy to have him back, and (season 5 spoilers)

I'm really looking forward to his episodes in S5. I hope it turns out to be more than five.

Reiko
March 2nd, 2008, 07:48 PM
Well, I felt a little cheated for him being a clone, but since he's pretty much the same, I'm happy. I'll get over it eventually. PM was great in Kindred II and he should be back for more episodes

than five next year.

The more episodes he's in, the more eppies I'll watch.

Your choice tptb ;)

twinchaosblade
March 2nd, 2008, 07:49 PM
I'm beyond delighted to have Carson back,
clone or no clone. As long as it's essentially him characterwise, I'm more than willing to embrace him and never let go again!

I just think they should integrate him more thoroughly in the upcoming fifth season than letting his character almost fade into insignificance by neglecting him once again. He should be at least a heavily recurring character with a minimum of eight to ten eps. Anything else is a cheap way of not following one concept or the other, meaning Carson in or out. And for me, he absolutely needs to be in! Seeing him again in 'The Kindred' just perfectly underlined how much I missed Beckett on Atlantis. :D

SoulReaver
March 2nd, 2008, 07:53 PM
big deal - it ain't even Carson, just a facsimile with the same face & memories. better than nothing I guess for if they can cure him he'd still be a valuable asset to the team. till then, nighty for him

haloplayer
March 2nd, 2008, 07:55 PM
So when Thor downloads himself into a new body is he no longer Thor since he is a clone? ;)

I am glad Carson is back in some form, even if he is a clone of the original, he is an exact copy with just the DNA flaw which I am sure they will fix next season.

Thats different. Thor is downloading his conscious into a clone body which makes him the same person since it is the same conscious. BUT Clone Carson does not have the same conscious as the Original Carson did.

Im still glad we get a clone but im just trying to say its different then Thor Downloading himself into a new body. Also the Clone has a bunch of differences and not just the DNA flaw.

jelgate
March 2nd, 2008, 07:57 PM
I'm most likely in the minority, but I am against the return of Beckett. Sure with SciFI, you can bring back a character, but I feel that it cheapens the character and death. Your unhappy with a character being dead, don't worry TPTB will bring back the character back with some lame scifi cliche.:rolleyes:. It also takes away the quality of Sunday.

Rosehawk
March 2nd, 2008, 08:12 PM
I am glad they brought Carson back. His performance in Kindred II was top notch and enjoyable to watch.
I would like to see Carson take some dark turns in S5, don't know if they can do that in 5 episodes or not but now they now have an avenue to take the character down a different path. :cool:

TDgamer
March 2nd, 2008, 08:16 PM
I am kind of on the fence on this. Unfortunately there is not really an option for my stance.

On the one hand, I wish they had not. Carson went out in extraordinary fashion in Sunday. It was the perfect exit for him.

On the other hand, I loved having him on the show. His interactions with McKay were awesome. Plus, there would not be this really awesome 4-episode season finale/premiere arc.

Briangate78
March 2nd, 2008, 08:19 PM
Someone sorta said that this not being the real Carson leaves the events of Sunday intact. Another way of putting it is, Sunday is still a powerful episode and it is not cheapened since the original Carson died. With this Carson it is Carson in the flesh and mind and body and whatnot. I feel the clone bit worked. How they would make the original return from the dead would of been cheapened, imo.

SoulReaver
March 2nd, 2008, 08:26 PM
Carson went out in extraordinary fashion in Sunday. It was the perfect exit for him.blown to bits, perfect for him ? that's nice http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif

TDgamer
March 2nd, 2008, 08:26 PM
blown to bits, perfect for him ? that's nice http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif

Haha. Funny, you know what I mean.

SoulReaver
March 2nd, 2008, 08:27 PM
http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/1/labbaipierre.gif

erb
March 2nd, 2008, 08:47 PM
Someone sorta said that this not being the real Carson leaves the events of Sunday intact. Another way of putting it is, Sunday is still a powerful episode and it is not cheapened since the original Carson died. With this Carson it is Carson in the flesh and mind and body and whatnot. I feel the clone bit worked. How they would make the original return from the dead would of been cheapened, imo.

For me, I don't particularly care about leaving the events of Sunday intact. And as I value clone Carson (just like I valued the replicator copies of the team and consider their sacrifices tragic), the death would still be meaningful to me.

bluealien
March 3rd, 2008, 12:16 AM
They should have let him remain dead. Sunday was one of the best and most poignant eps of Atlantis and now its a bit of a joke. Why is everyone treating him like he is the real Carson. A clone with Carsons memories is not the same and there would have been more differences than they showed in the ep... you cannot re-create someone in a lab and have them act the exact same as the original person...

Carson is dead and this copy of him can never be the same and I didn't like how everyone was treating him like the real thing..he is not and the entire Carson storyline line just didnt' interest me at all. He just felt out of place in the ep and just a means to force misplaced emotion on the characters.

Fenrir Foxz
March 3rd, 2008, 12:52 AM
I'm most likely in the minority, but I am against the return of Beckett. Sure with SciFI, you can bring back a character, but I feel that it cheapens the character and death. Your unhappy with a character being dead, don't worry TPTB will bring back the character back with some lame scifi cliche.:rolleyes:. It also takes away the quality of Sunday.

I disagree with that, if anything I believe this Carson being a clone has not in anyway taken from the quality of 'Sunday' and the integrity of that episode has been left intact...


Someone sorta said that this not being the real Carson leaves the events of Sunday intact. Another way of putting it is, Sunday is still a powerful episode and it is not cheapened since the original Carson died. With this Carson it is Carson in the flesh and mind and body and whatnot. I feel the clone bit worked. How they would make the original return from the dead would of been cheapened, imo.

Bwahahaha! :D I believe that someone was me! :P

Original post:

____________________________________________________

I watched 'Sunday' again earlier and a good reason for Carson to have been a clone in TK II hit me... One of the concerns I had with Carson coming back is how it would change how I view that episode and I'm sure others have mentioned it aswell... I'm actually glad that the TK Carson is a clone dispite some fan reactions there is nothing that really makes him anyless the Carson Beckett we knew and the impact of the Original Carson's death in 'Sunday' is left intact...

Can you imagine what that would have been like, watching that final scene of 'Sunday' and knowing that it was not really Carson everyone was morning over??

...IMO after thinking on it, Carson returning as a clone has served the shows integrity rather than taken from it. :cool:

____________________________________________________


The only problem I could have with the Carson we have now is nothing to do with him being a clone... to me he didn't seem like the Carson we knew but that is completely understandable as alot had changed from his perspective since he last saw the others *with the original Carson's memories he will be experiencing the loss of Weir aswell as having to deal with finding out he is a clone and his friends and Family on Earth thinking he is dead*

I expect this will change when we see Carson again in S5, so really I'm happy with how this has turned out and I have nothing bad to say about Carson being a clone or any negative effect his return could have on the character or the S3 ep 'Sunday'... I'm really looking forward to seeing him in S5, getting cured and back to being that Scottish Doc we enjoy seeing on Atlantis :)

Serebii
March 3rd, 2008, 01:15 AM
big deal - it ain't even Carson, just a facsimile with the same face & memories. better than nothing I guess for if they can cure him he'd still be a valuable asset to the team. till then, nighty for him
What is a person if not a sum of all his memories?

SoulReaver
March 3rd, 2008, 03:22 AM
What is a person if not a sum of all his memories?golly, so you're a hard disk ?


if you ponder on this for a moment, you may realize that your statement in fact contradicts itself, and the possibility of this being the real mccoy (the persona)

jenks
March 3rd, 2008, 03:57 AM
How does that statement contradict itself?

Briangate78
March 3rd, 2008, 05:44 AM
For me, I don't particularly care about leaving the events of Sunday intact. And as I value clone Carson (just like I valued the replicator copies of the team and consider their sacrifices tragic), the death would still be meaningful to me.

Well it's good that you value the clone. He is a real person as well.




Carson is dead and this copy of him can never be the same and I didn't like how everyone was treating him like the real thing..he is not and the entire Carson storyline line just didnt' interest me at all. He just felt out of place in the ep and just a means to force misplaced emotion on the characters.

Yes, you are right. The Copy will be even better than the original Carson because he has a lot to prove and he has been through a more terrible ordeal than the original Carson. For the record, I am glad he is back. He adds to the show and is needed for next season.

Pharaoh Atem
March 3rd, 2008, 05:47 AM
Fantastic, what took them so long? :beckett: he's back and that's all that matters but this time with a little twist

ShadowMaat
March 3rd, 2008, 06:22 AM
I'm against it. I think that sometimes the dead should stay dead and not be resurrected in any form, particularly not a loophole-y real-but-not way.

Someone asked about Thor, but as far as I'm concerned, the Asgard don't count. They're already clones and when they transfer their consciousness (which is, as someone pointed out, the original and not a copy) the old body is destroyed, so beyond maybe a brief transfer period, there is only ever one Thor, one Heimdall, one Hermiod, etc. Now, if you wind up with a situation where there are TWO Thors existing simultaneously for an extended period before one of them is killed, then there might be an issue of which was the "real" one.

In regards to Sunday, yes, I do feel that Carson's return- even in clone form- cheapens the original's death. Sunday was an emotionally powerful episode for a lot of people and some fans were upset about it for a long while afterwards. Now, however, they can watch it and know that it's only temporary and that Carson (or a version of him, anyway) will be back in the next season. Maybe it's still sad, but I think it loses some of that resonance when you know he'll be back.

I'm also of the opinion that a clone isn't the same as the original, particularly not when both exist simultaneously and have different experiences. Add in that in this case Carson 2 may have been tampered with by Michael and you're another step removed from "our" Carson. IMO, of course. A number of people seem perfectly happy to accept Carson 2 as the real deal and that's fine for them; in fact, it'll probably make watching the show a lot easier and more enjoyable, but for me it won't be the same and I don't care if the whole team comes out and says, "Yes, this is our Carson, returned to us!" because as far as I'm concerned, it isn't. The clone is just a cheap copy and it was made only so that TPTB could bring back a much loved character and thus boost their ratings and from where I'm sitting it looks as though they're sacrificing everything to do it- from the "real" Carson's sacrifice in Sunday to Teyla's story arc in Kindred to the integrity of TPTB themselves, something has been lost and at this point I'd say those things are irretrievable.

Let the dead stay dead; don't use cheap gimmicks and worn-out loopholes to bring someone back even when you can use the excuse of it not being the "real" person. If you ask me, these tricks are over-used in scifi in general and on Stargate in particular.

Jackie
March 3rd, 2008, 06:41 AM
I expected him to be a clone when JM stated "in the flesh." Then hearing he would only be in 5 eps next year sealed the clone theory for me...if it was real carson there would be more of a reason to bring the actor back full time and get rid of the Keller chick.

Anyways, Paul's acting was superb and set against the rest of the cast he should indeed be a full time regular. He's one of the few actors on the show that can keep my attention even when only stating a few words. Ronon cannot do that!

As far as the cheapening of "sunday" ep goes...well, IMHO Sunday sucked so bad that it could not possibly be cheapened.

The ep was awful and didn't do the character justice...killed by an exploding piece of fatty tissue...please! No one would go fishing...*rolls eyes*

If anything, Carson's return helped undo the injustice Sunday left me feeling. No one deserves to die in a "joke" sort of way. I hated the time looping done in Sunday and the so called "mystery" to changing a piece of body tissue into a deadly exploding force.

I would have liked to see Carson as the original but alas, that will never happen due to the box tptb wrote themselves into by using Carson as a ratings ploy. For some odd reason tptb's theory that "if you kill him they will watch" never panned out and behold the ratings didn't have major returns.

So, I am forced to resign any hope for seeing Stargate return with a confident doctor or leader for that matter.

ToasterOnFire
March 3rd, 2008, 07:07 AM
I'll vote whatever option is close enough to "meh".

bluealien
March 3rd, 2008, 07:12 AM
I expected him to be a clone when JM stated "in the flesh." Then hearing he would only be in 5 eps next year sealed the clone theory for me...if it was real carson there would be more of a reason to bring the actor back full time and get rid of the Keller chick.

Anyways, Paul's acting was superb and set against the rest of the cast he should indeed be a full time regular. He's one of the few actors on the show that can keep my attention even when only stating a few words. Ronon cannot do that!

As far as the cheapening of "sunday" ep goes...well, IMHO Sunday sucked so bad that it could not possibly be cheapened.

The ep was awful and didn't do the character justice...killed by an exploding piece of fatty tissue...please! No one would go fishing...*rolls eyes*

If anything, Carson's return helped undo the injustice Sunday left me feeling. No one deserves to die in a "joke" sort of way. I hated the time looping done in Sunday and the so called "mystery" to changing a piece of body tissue into a deadly exploding force.

I would have liked to see Carson as the original but alas, that will never happen due to the box tptb wrote themselves into by using Carson as a ratings ploy. For some odd reason tptb's theory that "if you kill him they will watch" never panned out and behold the ratings didn't have major returns.

So, I am forced to resign any hope for seeing Stargate return with a confident doctor or leader for that matter.

Dead is dead.. People die in all sorts of way and you could probably argue that none of them deserved to die in any sort of way.. but dead is dead. And for me Carson is dead and buried and was mourned by his friends. Then a clone of him just appears and they are willing to treat him like he was the real Carson..that to me makes a joke of Carson's death. I didn't really have a problem with Carson dying as it brings realism to the show when someone actually dies. Sunday is one of the best eps for me because it shows real emotion and caring and that lives can be snuffed out at the most unexpected times.

But Kindred 2 and Carson's return as a clone marginalizes death. Why should any of them fear death.. you just just create a clone and it will as good as the real thing. A life is more than a biological creation fitted with a few memories. The clone has never experienced anything of Carson's life so how can he make sense of anything that happened it him.. This is not Carson so why is he being treated like he has returned from the dead. Carson is still dead and buried and this is just a copy who cannot possibly act in exactly the same way as the original Carson as he has never experienced any of the memories that he has been given...

I said goodbye to Carson in Sunday and the character never really interested me enough in the first place to care about his return and the way it was done just turned me off his character completely. Maybe if he hadn't been a clone I may have taken to him a bit more but either way I couldn't see him as the doctor again in Atlantis and think it would have been much better for the writers to have let the character rest in peace..:S

Naonak
March 3rd, 2008, 07:15 AM
So when Thor downloads himself into a new body is he no longer Thor since he is a clone? ;)
:indeed:

Thats different. Thor is downloading his conscious into a clone body which makes him the same person since it is the same conscious. BUT Clone Carson does not have the same conscious as the Original Carson did.
He does, as far as "Misbegotten". Then he has the memory of being Michael's captive, instead of the rest of season 3.


Im still glad we get a clone but im just trying to say its different then Thor Downloading himself into a new body. Also the Clone has a bunch of differences and not just the DNA flaw.
Such as?

desh
March 3rd, 2008, 07:52 AM
Is it just me, or does every character that comes back from the dead after a long hiatus have freakishly large muscles?

Jeffala
March 3rd, 2008, 08:15 AM
Is it just me, or does every character that comes back from the dead after a long hiatus have freakishly large muscles?

Well, he had two years to work out in that cell.

Briangate78
March 3rd, 2008, 08:22 AM
Here is my take on the whole thing.

1.) The fans who wanted Carson back, got him back.
2.) They did not technically bring back Carson from the dead as people seem to claim.

3.) In my opinion it was clever, and bringing back the original Carson would not have worked, IMHO.

4.) The chemistry and feelings from the other characters were right on the money, IMO. Especially Rodney, which truly won me over in "The Kindred"

5.) Carson is back and he will be even better than the original and has already proved this in "The Kindred", imo. He has been in a jail cell for 2 years, and it showed in "The Kindred" when he shot those guards. That is character development, imo. Even if it was a different person, it still is Carson.

Pharaoh Atem
March 3rd, 2008, 08:24 AM
Here is my take on the whole thing.


3.) In my opinion it was clever, and bringing back the original Carson would not have worked, IMHO.
.

and it keeps it open for paul to add some new elements to carson and just say it's due to miceah's cloning him.

Jackie
March 3rd, 2008, 08:25 AM
Dead is dead.. People die in all sorts of way and you could probably argue that none of them deserved to die in any sort of way.. but dead is dead. And for me Carson is dead and buried and was mourned by his friends. Then a clone of him just appears and they are willing to treat him like he was the real Carson..that to me makes a joke of Carson's death. I didn't really have a problem with Carson dying as it brings realism to the show when someone actually dies. Sunday is one of the best eps for me because it shows real emotion and caring and that lives can be snuffed out at the most unexpected times.

But Kindred 2 and Carson's return as a clone marginalizes death. Why should any of them fear death.. you just just create a clone and it will as good as the real thing. A life is more than a biological creation fitted with a few memories. The clone has never experienced anything of Carson's life so how can he make sense of anything that happened it him.. This is not Carson so why is he being treated like he has returned from the dead. Carson is still dead and buried and this is just a copy who cannot possibly act in exactly the same way as the original Carson as he has never experienced any of the memories that he has been given...

I said goodbye to Carson in Sunday and the character never really interested me enough in the first place to care about his return and the way it was done just turned me off his character completely. Maybe if he hadn't been a clone I may have taken to him a bit more but either way I couldn't see him as the doctor again in Atlantis and think it would have been much better for the writers to have let the character rest in peace..:S

A fictitious character's death is not dead...they never really existed. I will NOT compare a fictitious character's death with a real person's death. There is no comparison...I've seen death first hand and have lost many, many friends and family.

There is now way in h3ll I will ever place a fictitious character as a living being to begin with.

Because I never viewed Carson as anything more than a character, killing him proves no point at all. He's not real to begin with...they admitted they only killed the character off for a ratings ploy...to "shake things up."

Killing off the character for the sole purpose of "shaking things up" and getting us to watch their show was just a stupid move. Because the motive for office Carson was meaningless to begin with.

Knowing that the motive is meaningless...how does that add any value to the death of the character? It doesn't...thus, the episode they wasted to kill him in was utter crap.

erb
March 3rd, 2008, 08:38 AM
Here is my take on the whole thing.

3.) In my opinion it was clever, and bringing back the original Carson would not have worked, IMHO.

5.) Carson is back and he will be even better than the original and has already proved this in "The Kindred", imo. He has been in a jail cell for 2 years, and it showed in "The Kindred" when he shot those guards. That is character development, imo. Even if it was a different person, it still is Carson.

3.) I don't know if I would call it clever, as yet, since there are still a lot of unanswered questions as to how it was done. (I will grant that on the surface this seems to be the easier route to take.) I want to know how the clone has Carson's memories.

Now bringing back the original Carson could be clever depending on how it was done.

5.) Better? I'll grant you different, but even original Carson being a prisoner for a period of time could give us different.
But I can't argue with the idea of there being potential for interesting storylines with the clone. But will the potential be realized?

Briangate78
March 3rd, 2008, 09:08 AM
3.) I don't know if I would call it clever, as yet, since there are still a lot of unanswered questions as to how it was done. (I will grant that on the surface this seems to be the easier route to take.) I want to know how the clone has Carson's memories.

Now bringing back the original Carson could be clever depending on how it was done.

5.) Better? I'll grant you different, but even original Carson being a prisoner for a period of time could give us different.
But I can't argue with the idea of there being potential for interesting storylines with the clone. But will the potential be realized?

I think it will be. I said TPTB would be crazy for an example not to continue certain story arcs. Sadly one of them will be revisted without a character since the actress turned down the offer. As per Carson, he is returning, so the opportunity will be there for this potential.

I was very pleased with the outcome of "The Kindred". It felt real and not forced his return.

Willow'sCat
March 3rd, 2008, 01:46 PM
What do I think? Bad idea. :cool:

Not clever. Cliched.
Not original. Has been done to *cough* death many, many times before. Pandering. My yes indeed! That is all this is!

Rarely works. Afirmative.

I am just happy that this thing will only appear in 5 eps in season 5, and given the history of tptb when it comes to what constitutes an "appearance" I am thinking I will not watch this thing much at all. :D *small blessings*

Thunderbird 2
March 3rd, 2008, 01:49 PM
I've just read the transcript.

In reading the script its easy to imagine the actors playing their characters in this story, and thanks to his strong presence in the role, I know Paul McGillion will have been fantastic. The development of McKay is a nice pay off too, but nevertheless, I am disappointed by this.

As an audience member, I feel manipulated. - My fondness for the character is being used as a bribe to watch the programme, but that has failed because its not the same character! The character has been brought back in such a way that all bets are indeed off. Could the real Beckett still be out there in another of Michael’s facilities? What if this Beckett and the Sunday Beckett are both clones? Urgh, it feels like a soap plot with a Sci Fi twist. The whole evil twin carry on!

As a writer myself, I keep thinking, - could they be doing a double bluff here? They knew we would guess 'clone Beckett.' Perhaps they are setting us up for a Beckett I Beckett II and Beckett III - which one is the 'real' one - You decide! Then I think, considering that Ford was dropped, and Weir is now part Borg (and realistically -probably won't be seen again) can the writers really salvage some good story material from this development? I am sceptical. - SG1 and The Trek franchise have done the whole cloning sub genre, and the whole key essential enzyme thing to keep the guy alive is completely iffy. - Unless as I say the real Beckett is out there and this one is another copy. The Dominion in Star Trek Deep Space Nine explored these aspects of cloning with the Vorta and Jem Haddar well - but to such a point that this feels like a retread.

I don't like feeling like this, - part of me is screaming that I should be grateful that Paul McGillion is back as a sort-of version of Beckett. But assuming this is it, and there is no clever involved plot arc within plot arc at work here, for me it just isn't enough. I can only hope I am proved wrong.

Hypochondriac
March 3rd, 2008, 02:41 PM
I'm glad they bought him back. This was the only episode in which I didn't hate the Rodney character. The interaction between them was great. The episode showed me Rodney really isn't a stuckup ass, and can care for people.

Falcon Horus
March 3rd, 2008, 03:52 PM
It's the best joke ever... but they shouldn't have bothered. A clone?!? Come on!

Integrabyte
March 4th, 2008, 03:00 AM
They could have done it better :P. This whole clone idea screws up the timeline and brings inconsistencies :P

Skydiver
March 4th, 2008, 04:29 AM
i kinda think they shoulda killed the clone in Sunday and had this be the real carson. they didn't need to put him in stasis to 'get rid' of him until next season. he just had to go home and see his mother and needed time to deal with being a prisoner

don't get me wrong, it's nice to see him back, but it jsut feels like his death was now nothing but a cheap publicity stunt. Just like any other 'death' will be. something done to spice up a story or rile up fans but something that can be easily undone as they hit a version of the reset switch

Thunderbird 2
March 4th, 2008, 04:58 AM
i kinda think they shoulda killed the clone in Sunday and had this be the real carson. they didn't need to put him in stasis to 'get rid' of him until next season. he just had to go home and see his mother and needed time to deal with being a prisoner

don't get me wrong, it's nice to see him back, but it jsut feels like his death was now nothing but a cheap publicity stunt. Just like any other 'death' will be. something done to spice up a story or rile up fans but something that can be easily undone as they hit a version of the reset switch

Indeed - Hallowed are the Mods! Thanks Skydiver, its nice that I am not the only one thinking along those lines. I do hope that the season 5 eps will go a long way to correct this whole carry on, but for my money I am paying closer attention the the SG1 movies.

That brings up another thought - this clone of Beckett, they couldn't let him return to Earth. How could they? Even though he acts like Dr B, there is no way to know what kind of mental programming Michael put into the clone. It would be too dangerous. I guess that means the end of the possibility of seeing Becketts family, far less the chance for Dr B to return to Scotland.

(Do we have a crying Beckett Smilie?)

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 05:28 AM
It's the best joke ever... but they shouldn't have bothered. A clone?!? Come on!

Oh yeah it was a joke. Best joke EVAH! Funniest episode EVAH!. I laughed my @ss off when they put Carson into the stasis chamber and everyone was saying goodbye.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb265/rakdos11/brian-griffin-family-guy-t-shirt.jpg

Mitchell82
March 4th, 2008, 06:40 AM
Great! I missed him alot IMO he is the Scotty of SGA. Yeah his career is more like Bones but I think you get my point. I am thrilled he is back.

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 06:47 AM
Great! I missed him alot IMO he is the Scotty of SGA. Yeah his career is more like Bones but I think you get my point. I am thrilled he is back.

Yup, and I think it was well done also. So how are you feeling? Heard you were under the weather over the weekend.

The.Road.Not.Taken
March 4th, 2008, 06:50 AM
i am glad because i wanna see his interarction with keller but i really didn't like the way they did it

Mitchell82
March 4th, 2008, 06:52 AM
Yup, and I think it was well done also. So how are you feeling? Heard you were under the weather over the weekend.

Slightly better but the flu takes along time to get over. After getting a fever on Sunday night I knew I was pretty sick so I went to the ER and my blood pressure was very low. The minute they first took it it was 60/40. Not only do I have the flu I have a sinus infection. So long story short I'm feeling slightly better but I wouldn't wish this on my worse enemy. Now Jelgate maybe.........J/K.;)

Mitchell82
March 4th, 2008, 06:53 AM
i am glad because i wanna see his interarction with keller but i really didn't like the way they did it

Personally I think they did that really well. She definatly looked uncomfortable for obvious reasons. I can't wait to see more of that.

Skydiver
March 4th, 2008, 07:00 AM
Indeed - Hallowed are the Mods! Thanks Skydiver, its nice that I am not the only one thinking along those lines. I do hope that the season 5 eps will go a long way to correct this whole carry on, but for my money I am paying closer attention the the SG1 movies.

That brings up another thought - this clone of Beckett, they couldn't let him return to Earth. How could they? Even though he acts like Dr B, there is no way to know what kind of mental programming Michael put into the clone. It would be too dangerous. I guess that means the end of the possibility of seeing Becketts family, far less the chance for Dr B to return to Scotland.

(Do we have a crying Beckett Smilie?)
becket WOULD bring up the tricky ethical issues of who is 'real' and identity and self and all that...but i doubt they'll touch on it.

they toyed with it with clone jack and then dropped it and i bet they'll drop this too. clone carson (cc for short) will be like the AU harry on voyager, dude, killed him off for effect then lookee here, a nice and easy replacement. :rolleyes:

i would think it'd be just as heart breaking had it been the real carson in captivity who is then dealing with just how easily he was replaced.

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 07:04 AM
i am glad because i wanna see his interarction with keller but i really didn't like the way they did it


Personally I think they did that really well. She definatly looked uncomfortable for obvious reasons. I can't wait to see more of that.

I loved when Keller puts her arm around Carson while helping him to the stasis chamber and says we will find a cure and will have top people working on this. That really touched me. :)


becket WOULD bring up the tricky ethical issues of who is 'real' and identity and self and all that...but i doubt they'll touch on it.

they toyed with it with clone jack and then dropped it and i bet they'll drop this too. clone carson (cc for short) will be like the AU harry on voyager, dude, killed him off for effect then lookee here, a nice and easy replacement. :rolleyes:

i would think it'd be just as heart breaking had it been the real carson in captivity who is then dealing with just how easily he was replaced.

I think it will make it more of a moral issue and more interesting. This new Beckett who thinks and acts like the original Beckett will have a lot to prove, or want to prove that he is Beckett and not just some clone.

Linzi
March 4th, 2008, 07:12 AM
I'm not happy with Carson's return. He died in Sunday and it's an insult to me, who sobbed her heart out when he got blown up, that he's back as a clone, and what position is he going to hold in season 5? Saw it coming a mile off, knew he'd have genetic issues...predictable much.

He should have stayed dead or come back as CMO, IMO.

Spoilers for season 5, and Beckett and Keller:


If he was coming back in season 5 as CMO, in a reduced, recurring role I would be happy. But, Keller is CMO and now a regular, and where does that leave Beckett? I think TPTB have made a mistake here, to be frank.

I liked Beckett as CMO. I never doubted him, his skills or his compassion. Can't say the same for Keller, to be honest. Now what? Beckett's back for five episodes squeezed in as a doctor helping out on teams? That's doing to him what I hated in previous seasons: squeezing him in episodes for the sake of it. It didn't work then, and Beckett became a clown and supposed comic relief, which irritated me. Why should it work now? If TPTB wanted him back, he should have returned in his old role, as CMO, IMO.

Keller hasn't worked out in the role. She's not compassionate, certainly not believable as CMO, too full of self doubt and doesn't have a commanding medical presence. She should have been cast as a junior doctor. I feel I've given her long enough to settle in, and I'm not loving her. I don't dislike her, but Carson should be back as CMO, even if he's a clone, I think.
Just my two cents on the situation. :)

Mitchell82
March 4th, 2008, 07:12 AM
I loved when Keller puts her arm around Carson while helping him to the stasis chamber and says we will find a cure and will have top people working on this. That really touched me. :)
Same here.




I think it will make it more of a moral issue and more interesting. This new Beckett who thinks and acts like the original Beckett will have a lot to prove, or want to prove that he is Beckett and not just some clone.
Especially with Woolsey at the helm. Lots of potential for conflict.

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 07:35 AM
I'm not happy with Carson's return. He died in Sunday and it's an insult to me, who sobbed her heart out when he got blown up, that he's back as a clone, and what position is he going to hold in season 5? Saw it coming a mile off, knew he'd have genetic issues...predictable much.

He should have stayed dead or come back as CMO, IMO.

Spoilers for season 5, and Beckett and Keller:


If he was coming back in season 5 as CMO, in a reduced, recurring role I would be happy. But, Keller is CMO and now a regular, and where does that leave Beckett? I think TPTB have made a mistake here, to be frank.

I liked Beckett as CMO. I never doubted him, his skills or his compassion. Can't say the same for Keller, to be honest. Now what? Beckett's back for five episodes squeezed in as a doctor helping out on teams? That's doing to him what I hated in previous seasons: squeezing him in episodes for the sake of it. It didn't work then, and Beckett became a clown and supposed comic relief, which irritated me. Why should it work now? If TPTB wanted him back, he should have returned in his old role, as CMO, IMO.

Keller hasn't worked out in the role. She's not compassionate, certainly not believable as CMO, too full of self doubt and doesn't have a commanding medical presence. She should have been cast as a junior doctor. I feel I've given her long enough to settle in, and I'm not loving her. I don't dislike her, but Carson should be back as CMO, even if he's a clone, I think.
Just my two cents on the situation. :)

Season 5 Spoilers..

With at least 5 eps next season they are setting up for a return. He will be that doctor/scientist going on missions like in the old days. I sorta read some spoilers. I hope and truly believe he will get more than 5 eps. 5 eps is not set in stone according to Joe M.

As per the clone thing. It makes the show more SCI FI and brings it back to it's genre roots. I thought this through and bringing back the original Carson would of been very hard to do. Even if Michael was able to create a clone, could he have done this in such a short time between the events of "Misbegotten" and "Sunday" which was really only a few months in the time-line.

ShadowMaat
March 4th, 2008, 07:37 AM
Especially with Woolsey at the helm. Lots of potential for conflict.
Actually, I can see that as a way to rally support for Carson Copy (CC, right? ;)). Right now the team's still a bit iffy on CC and they want to believe it's "their" Carson come back to them- more or less- but Michael's interference may have made things a bit hinky. No one blames CC per se, but there still seems to be a bit of a question about him (or I felt there was, anyway).

When Woolsey shows up he's undoubtedly going to be anti-CC, rightly pointing out that the "real" Carson died and that CC poses a security threat. If not calling for him to be outright destroyed, he certainly isn't going to want CC to be let in on any info about Atlantis, its missions, its personnel, or anything else that might be leaked back to our enemies. He'll probably try to make it more of a POW situation than a Lost Friend Returned. And in a way, he's right: this isn't Carson, it's just a copy and we don't know what his "true agenda" might be- heck, he might not even know (sleeper agent, anyone?), but he's already "proven" himself to be unreliable in that confrontation with Michael and we can't be sure just how much control Michael retains over him or how far away that influence extends. Can he be controlled over vast distances? Can Michael "read" CC's thoughts? Maybe CC will even agree with him; I figure he's gotta be feeling guilty over his inability to rescue Teyla.

This, however, will firmly solidify the team in CC's corner. Even if they agree that it isn't the original Carson it's still some version of him and thus he's a friend, not an enemy. I also don't know how the team reacted when Woolsey was around the last time or what will precipitate his takeover, but there'll probably be some resentment there and a tendency to take the opposite stance from him. Plus, like I said, it's Carson. Maybe not the original but undoubtedly real enough for his friends. They'll want to bolster his confidence and will believe (more or less) that the encounter with Michael wasn't his fault and that something can be done to counteract any control Michael may still have over him. Team Atlantis will circle their wagons and rally around their friend and Woolsey's paranoiac tendencies will be ignored as bureaucratic BS.

Of course, for now he's still a Scotsicle so he can be wholly ignored until a more convenient time. ;)

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 07:45 AM
Actually, I can see that as a way to rally support for Carson Copy (CC, right? ;)). Right now the team's still a bit iffy on CC and they want to believe it's "their" Carson come back to them- more or less- but Michael's interference may have made things a bit hinky. No one blames CC per se, but there still seems to be a bit of a question about him (or I felt there was, anyway).

When Woolsey shows up he's undoubtedly going to be anti-CC, rightly pointing out that the "real" Carson died and that CC poses a security threat. If not calling for him to be outright destroyed, he certainly isn't going to want CC to be let in on any info about Atlantis, its missions, its personnel, or anything else that might be leaked back to our enemies. He'll probably try to make it more of a POW situation than a Lost Friend Returned. And in a way, he's right: this isn't Carson, it's just a copy and we don't know what his "true agenda" might be- heck, he might not even know (sleeper agent, anyone?), but he's already "proven" himself to be unreliable in that confrontation with Michael and we can't be sure just how much control Michael retains over him or how far away that influence extends. Can he be controlled over vast distances? Can Michael "read" CC's thoughts? Maybe CC will even agree with him; I figure he's gotta be feeling guilty over his inability to rescue Teyla.

This, however, will firmly solidify the team in CC's corner. Even if they agree that it isn't the original Carson it's still some version of him and thus he's a friend, not an enemy. I also don't know how the team reacted when Woolsey was around the last time or what will precipitate his takeover, but there'll probably be some resentment there and a tendency to take the opposite stance from him. Plus, like I said, it's Carson. Maybe not the original but undoubtedly real enough for his friends. They'll want to bolster his confidence and will believe (more or less) that the encounter with Michael wasn't his fault and that something can be done to counteract any control Michael may still have over him. Team Atlantis will circle their wagons and rally around their friend and Woolsey's paranoiac tendencies will be ignored as bureaucratic BS.



You basically gave an example to why Clone Carson could have a lot of potential and is a more "Complexed" and "Dynamic" story arc than if the real Carson returned.

Don't we want a 3D show and not just something simple and everything is all happy joy joy at the end? What fun is that?

Carson has a lot to prove, and this whole Michael thing is very interesting in how it will play out.

Mitchell82
March 4th, 2008, 08:18 AM
Actually, I can see that as a way to rally support for Carson Copy (CC, right? ;)). Right now the team's still a bit iffy on CC and they want to believe it's "their" Carson come back to them- more or less- but Michael's interference may have made things a bit hinky. No one blames CC per se, but there still seems to be a bit of a question about him (or I felt there was, anyway).

When Woolsey shows up he's undoubtedly going to be anti-CC, rightly pointing out that the "real" Carson died and that CC poses a security threat. If not calling for him to be outright destroyed, he certainly isn't going to want CC to be let in on any info about Atlantis, its missions, its personnel, or anything else that might be leaked back to our enemies. He'll probably try to make it more of a POW situation than a Lost Friend Returned. And in a way, he's right: this isn't Carson, it's just a copy and we don't know what his "true agenda" might be- heck, he might not even know (sleeper agent, anyone?), but he's already "proven" himself to be unreliable in that confrontation with Michael and we can't be sure just how much control Michael retains over him or how far away that influence extends. Can he be controlled over vast distances? Can Michael "read" CC's thoughts? Maybe CC will even agree with him; I figure he's gotta be feeling guilty over his inability to rescue Teyla.

This, however, will firmly solidify the team in CC's corner. Even if they agree that it isn't the original Carson it's still some version of him and thus he's a friend, not an enemy. I also don't know how the team reacted when Woolsey was around the last time or what will precipitate his takeover, but there'll probably be some resentment there and a tendency to take the opposite stance from him. Plus, like I said, it's Carson. Maybe not the original but undoubtedly real enough for his friends. They'll want to bolster his confidence and will believe (more or less) that the encounter with Michael wasn't his fault and that something can be done to counteract any control Michael may still have over him. Team Atlantis will circle their wagons and rally around their friend and Woolsey's paranoiac tendencies will be ignored as bureaucratic BS.

Of course, for now he's still a Scotsicle so he can be wholly ignored until a more convenient time. ;)

That is exactly why I can't wait to see how this plays out.

raduzhok
March 4th, 2008, 08:30 AM
I made a point of not looking at/reading anything about s5 because I prefer to be surprised. It was difficult, however, to not know Carson was returning. That, however, left a lot of personal speculation on how it would happen.

I was excited to see Carson in the preview before The Kindred aired... My imagination went wild... my thought was, it might be replicator carson, but they explained that he was a clone in K2.

What was disheartening was the fact that for an hour I got to see Carson, in whichever form, and then suddenly, at the end, they're putting him in the deep freeze. I thought, why bother to have brought him back if you're just going to send him away? That above everything made me feel cheated.

Obviously, from reading this thread, it points to a fuller (5 eps???? are they planning on really killing him off this time?) return next season. I can only hope that it's not going to be so short lived that it will have not been worthwhile. I love Paul, and have always enjoyed seeing him. I watch the old eps and cheer when he's still in the credits. I just fear that it's all a tease and I'll end up being disappointed, again.

The impact of what happened in SUNDAY was heart wrenching. If they put him down now, it will never have that same powerful emotional effect. I will always be glad to see Carson, to hear Carson, but I'm not sure I'll be glad what they've done to/with him.


What is a person if not a sum of all his memories?

That doesn't bode well for those who have amnesia!


As an audience member, I feel manipulated. - My fondness for the character is being used as a bribe to watch the programme... I don't like feeling like this, - part of me is screaming that I should be grateful that Paul McGillion is back as a sort-of version of Beckett. But assuming this is it, and there is no clever involved plot arc within plot arc at work here, for me it just isn't enough. I can only hope I am proved wrong.

That's exactly how I felt... manipulated... and as I said, only to have it seem like a carrot was being dangled in front of me... to have Carson put on a back burner (as they have done with Elizabeth).

Waiting to see what happens (which may be a long wait since the last of S4 is airing this Friday and who know when S5 will show up in the schedule)...

Rad

Chailyn
March 4th, 2008, 08:37 AM
I hate the way they brought him back. :cough: cliche :cough:

I also hate that he's put on ice until a plot calls for him.

But, at this point, I can swallow it. While I liked some aspects of Sunday, it was far from being a good episode. It was filled with its share of melodrama and cliche too. So, I guess it makes sense for a cliche to fix a cliche. :cool:

Seeing Carson again, especially next to Keller, really makes me happy that he's back. Paul's a great actor, and he brings a lot of warmth to the show that I've found missing. I just wish it was fulltime. TPTB write males so much better than females, so in a way I wish they'd just play to their strengths and focus on writing the characters that they're good at. I've given up on expecting miracles. :mckay:

Very happy that Carson's back! :)

erb
March 4th, 2008, 08:37 AM
becket WOULD bring up the tricky ethical issues of who is 'real' and identity and self and all that...but i doubt they'll touch on it.

they toyed with it with clone jack and then dropped it and i bet they'll drop this too. clone carson (cc for short) will be like the AU harry on voyager, dude, killed him off for effect then lookee here, a nice and easy replacement. :rolleyes:

i would think it'd be just as heart breaking had it been the real carson in captivity who is then dealing with just how easily he was replaced.

Yes. You could get some good storytelling from this development, but, like you, I am not counting on it. I don't feel they are interested in delving into issues such as this.

And I also agree it would be just as heartbreaking for it to have been the original kept in captivity all this time and coming back to face all that has happened in his absence.

So...yes, I would be fine with either original or clone Carson. But I do want a detailed explanation of whatever the final verdict is and I want some meat to his story. Which, due to past experience, leaves me ambivalent about the future.

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 08:52 AM
Yes. You could get some good storytelling from this development, but, like you, I am not counting on it. I don't feel they are interested in delving into issues such as this.

And I also agree it would be just as heartbreaking for it to have been the original kept in captivity all this time and coming back to face all that has happened in his absence.

So...yes, I would be fine with either original or clone Carson. But I do want a detailed explanation of whatever the final verdict is and I want some meat to his story. Which, due to past experience, leaves me ambivalent about the future.

I think this is something the writers are going to do very well. I have high hopes for Carson, and hope we may get more than 5 eps which is very possible.

LoneStar1836
March 4th, 2008, 08:54 AM
I voted the first choice.

Not necessarily because I think this is such a great story idea (I have almost zero faith in the writers) but because I'm happy to see Paul McGillion as well as his character again. I missed him. :(


Ratings/fan stunt? But of course.

Cliche? Without a doubt.

Do I care? No.


PM's appearance in Kindred, pt 2 was the only thing I liked about the episode. I enjoyed his character's interaction with the other characters even though the story behind his return is absurd. But then I thought the "real" one's death was just as absurd....

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 08:55 AM
TPTB write males so much better than females, so in a way I wish they'd just play to their strengths and focus on writing the characters that they're good at. I've given up on expecting miracles. :mckay:

Out with the ladies, let's turn this into an all-male show... Oh wait, it already is. Bimbo's don't count as ladies anyway. :mckay:

Killdeer
March 4th, 2008, 08:56 AM
Ratings/fan stunt? But of course.

Cliche? Without a doubt.

Do I care? No.


PM's appearance in Kindred, pt 2 was the only thing I liked about the episode. I enjoyed his character's interaction with the other characters even though the story behind his return is absurd. But then I thought the "real" one's death was just as absurd....

My thoughts exactly.

jelgate
March 4th, 2008, 08:56 AM
Out with the ladies, let's turn this into an all-male show... Oh wait, it already is. Bimbo's don't count as ladies anyway. :mckay:

FH, don't make me get pitcher of happiness.

silvercomet
March 4th, 2008, 09:00 AM
I'm glad to have him back - as long as TPTB don't do this several times like with Daniel in SG-1. Too often is too often.

And I'm curious how his character development will be.

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 09:04 AM
FH, don't make me get pitcher of happiness.

Oh no, no need... my pitcher of happiness is sitting in my closet in the form of a Streamlight Scorpion flashlight (like the one they use in the show) and a P-90 harness. :D

jelgate
March 4th, 2008, 09:06 AM
Oh no, no need... my pitcher of happiness is sitting in my closet in the form of a Streamlight Scorpion flashlight (like the one they use in the show) and a P-90 harness. :D

I demand pics (please):D:D:D. PM if you don't want post them

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 09:17 AM
I demand pics (please):D:D:D. PM if you don't want post them

I'll make some later, and PM them.

Chailyn
March 4th, 2008, 09:22 AM
Out with the ladies, let's turn this into an all-male show... Oh wait, it already is. Bimbo's don't count as ladies anyway. :mckay:

:lol:

I'm sorry to say that's where my thoughts are heading. While I'd like to see some good, developed women on the show, it's going into a fifth season already! I think the damage has unfortunately been done.

But, don't worry FH, they're bringing back Larrin, right? Maybe we'll finally get some female development after all! And there's always Keller...:P

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 09:27 AM
But, don't worry FH, they're bringing back Larrin, right? Maybe we'll finally get some female development after all! And there's always Keller...:P

ARGH!!!! .... *runs away screaming*

I classify her under "bimbo". :p

Chailyn
March 4th, 2008, 09:33 AM
ARGH!!!! .... *runs away screaming*

I classify her under "bimbo". :p

*pats back* At least we got Carson back. Maybe Season 5 will be Teyla's big year. Miracles can happen. ;)

jelgate
March 4th, 2008, 09:39 AM
ARGH!!!! .... *runs away screaming*

I classify her under "bimbo". :p

I call a few other things that aren't PG.

ciannwn
March 4th, 2008, 12:04 PM
This was the episode that my husband I were waiting for all season and we weren't disappointed. It was great to see Beckett back and neither of us care about the fact that he's a clone.

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 12:05 PM
This was the episode that my husband I were waiting for all season and we weren't disappointed. It was great to see Beckett back and neither of us care about the fact that he's a clone.

That's how I feel. :) Clones are people too! :p

Integrabyte
March 4th, 2008, 12:45 PM
ARGH!!!! .... *runs away screaming*

I classify her under "bimbo". :p


Go away Falcon!!! :P :P . She is H O T. That is all that matters!!! : P: P:P :P



I hope Carson shoots Keller and Larrin the way he shot those hybrids :D

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 12:52 PM
Go away Falcon!!! :P :P . She is H O T. That is all that matters!!! : P: P:P :P

Well.... err... no, she isn't. Jill Wagner is good looking, yes. But Larrin not so much.

But of course, you're right about the rest.

Poor Carson doesn't stand a chance like this.

Repli!kat
March 4th, 2008, 01:20 PM
Out with the ladies, let's turn this into an all-male show... Oh wait, it already is. Bimbo's don't count as ladies anyway. :mckay:

You are right - since TBTB seem to be he(( bent on getting rid of all the real ladies of SGA...
I mean, if Michael is such a fricken all fired genius DNA manipulator, get him to give Carson boobs and we won't even need the bimbos! :mad:

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 01:26 PM
I mean, if Michael is such a fricken all fired genius DNA manipulator, get him to give Carson boobs and we won't even need the bimbos! :mad:

Something like this you mean...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/SGAngeL204/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/PDVD_139.jpg

Fenrir Foxz
March 4th, 2008, 01:39 PM
Something like this you mean...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/SGAngeL204/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/PDVD_139.jpg

:eek: OMG!!! Carson has become a woman! :P

*Runs out of the thread screaming*

Skydiver
March 4th, 2008, 01:41 PM
that is not a manip that i can tell, where did you get that from?

Jeffala
March 4th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Something like this you mean...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/SGAngeL204/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/PDVD_139.jpg

******!Carson?

Fenrir Foxz
March 4th, 2008, 01:43 PM
that is not a manip that i can tell, where did you get that from?

It's from David Hewlett's 'A dog's Breakfast'... PM stars in it with DH and RL... Christopher Judge also makes an appearence ;)

*Runs out again from the Carson as a woman pic*

Skydiver
March 4th, 2008, 01:50 PM
well, if they ever show CC going back to earth, just like radar o riley, carson can play his own mother

Fenrir Foxz
March 4th, 2008, 01:52 PM
well, if they ever show CC going back to earth, just like radar o riley, carson can play his own mother

:lol:

A very creepy mother that would be! :eek:

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 01:53 PM
that is not a manip that i can tell, where did you get that from?

Trust me if it were I wouldn't have posted it in the first place. But like Fenrir said, it's from A Dog's Breakfast.

Jumper_One
March 4th, 2008, 02:43 PM
It's from David Hewlett's 'A dog's Breakfast'... PM stars in it with DH and RL... Christopher Judge also makes an appearence ;)

*Runs out again from the Carson as a woman pic*

yup awesome movie :D

Integrabyte
March 4th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Was that Paul?

Falcon Horus
March 4th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Was that Paul?

Yes, that was Paul. He is absolutely brilliant in A Dog's Breakfast.

Pheonix Commander
March 4th, 2008, 03:03 PM
I thought kindred 2 was amazing. Michael is the Baal of pegasus! Carson being back was great, he was a character i never saw the incredible appeal of, i was to stuck on his intreging accent. I personally think the clone angle is a good one, but the solution is a lot easier to find then i think they realize.

Surely a quick call to Earth sending the formula through that we now they already found when working in the lab, they could tee the Odyssey up to make it using the asgard core? We could have Carson 24/7 in a few days!:beckett:

Mitchell82
March 4th, 2008, 03:15 PM
I'm not happy with Carson's return. He died in Sunday and it's an insult to me, who sobbed her heart out when he got blown up, that he's back as a clone, and what position is he going to hold in season 5? Saw it coming a mile off, knew he'd have genetic issues...predictable much.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Carson is back and he is the same ol' Carson clone or not.


He should have stayed dead or come back as CMO, IMO.
I'm very pleased with how they did this. I wouldn't like him usurping Keller. They could use him as a doctor once they are sure he is not a security risk.


Spoilers for season 5, and Beckett and Keller:


If he was coming back in season 5 as CMO, in a reduced, recurring role I would be happy. But, Keller is CMO and now a regular, and where does that leave Beckett? I think TPTB have made a mistake here, to be frank.
I agree that it was a mistake to kill Carson but I don't believe their choice here was. I love Keller especially her interaction with Carson.


I liked Beckett as CMO. I never doubted him, his skills or his compassion. Can't say the same for Keller, to be honest. Now what? Beckett's back for five episodes squeezed in as a doctor helping out on teams? That's doing to him what I hated in previous seasons: squeezing him in episodes for the sake of it. It didn't work then, and Beckett became a clown and supposed comic relief, which irritated me. Why should it work now? If TPTB wanted him back, he should have returned in his old role, as CMO, IMO.

Keller hasn't worked out in the role. She's not compassionate, certainly not believable as CMO, too full of self doubt and doesn't have a commanding medical presence. She should have been cast as a junior doctor. I feel I've given her long enough to settle in, and I'm not loving her. I don't dislike her, but Carson should be back as CMO, even if he's a clone, I think.
Just my two cents on the situation. :)

I disagree on all points especially on the lack of compassion with Keller since I defiantly have seen the opposite.

jelgate
March 4th, 2008, 06:32 PM
The real Carson died in Sunday. The clone is a rip off.

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 06:58 PM
The real Carson died in Sunday. The clone is a rip off.

Jaffa KREE!!! :p

Jumper_One
March 4th, 2008, 07:05 PM
The real Carson died in Sunday. The clone is a rip off.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Sam/image3127.jpg
:D

Briangate78
March 4th, 2008, 07:06 PM
I think folks are upset that Carson might end up like wallpaper and will get no focus or he'll be part of the background frozen.

Fenrir Foxz
March 4th, 2008, 07:06 PM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Sam/image3127.jpg
:D

Go on Sam... SHOOT HIM!!! :P

Jeffala
March 4th, 2008, 07:10 PM
I think folks are upset that Carson might end up like wallpaper and will get no focus or he'll be part of the background frozen, sorta like this...


http://i28.tinypic.com/6ygwg7.jpg

LMFAO

Wheel his stasis chamber into the control room so he can be part of the action!

Fenrir Foxz
March 4th, 2008, 07:15 PM
I think folks are upset that Carson might end up like wallpaper and will get no focus or he'll be part of the background frozen, sorta like this...


Pic removed :P

ROFLMAO!!! :D

Jumper_One
March 4th, 2008, 07:20 PM
I think folks are upset that Carson might end up like wallpaper and will get no focus or he'll be part of the background frozen, sorta like this...


http://i28.tinypic.com/6ygwg7.jpg

:lol:


Go on Sam... SHOOT HIM!!! :P

:indeed:

Linzi
March 5th, 2008, 01:52 AM
I'm sorry you feel that way. Carson is back and he is the same ol' Carson clone or not.

I'm not sorry I feel that way. Carson to me is a bit of a spare part now. With such a large cast, I think it could well be a problem for season 5. With the main cast now back up to 6 and Beckett and the other recurring characters, I can see there possibly being the potential for too little time being devoted to some characters.




I'm very pleased with how they did this. I wouldn't like him usurping Keller. They could use him as a doctor once they are sure he is not a security risk.


Because we really need another doctor, don't we? ;) The problem is, Keller is CMO. Let's be honest, when Carson was a regular TPTB struggled to write consistently for him because a doctor just wasn't needed that often, hence him being squeezed into episodes where he didn't fit and, IMO, his character suffering because of it. I'd be happy for him to usurp Keller personally. For me, she's just not CMO material. Partly because of age, partly because of the way Keller has been written, and party because of the way Jewel has portrayed her. I never once doubted Carson as CMO. Never. I do Keller. Rarely, for me, has she shown the self assured behaviour Carson showed as CMO. I thought she had great potential in FS, and liked her in Quarantine. Missing did her no favours at all that I can see. As CMO, I feel she's very lacking sometimes in the ways I've described above.


I agree that it was a mistake to kill Carson but I don't believe their choice here was. I love Keller especially her interaction with Carson.


I know it wasn't the present PTB's choice to kill Carson, and in retrospect whoever made the choice wasn't really being that sensible that I can see. However, I think Carson could have been brought back in a reduced role as CMO. As I said previously, Keller herself I don't have a problem with. It's her position. And I say that as someone who's favourite character isn't Beckett. Sure, I've always liked him and didn't want him to be killed, but I accepted that and moved on. Hence me not wanting him back unless he's CMO; the role in which he excelled, IMO.



I disagree on all points especially on the lack of compassion with Keller since I defiantly have seen the opposite.
Well, respectfully, I'll have to disagree with you then ;) I can't agree that Keller has shown much compassion, she is in that respect inferior to Carson, IMO. As a junior doctor? I think Keller would be great. Her insecurity and lack of self assurance would then be understandable, and realistic. In fact, seeing Carson take control of the Genii who was Michael's spy, Nobil, (sp?) just showed me what Keller lacks, to be honest. She doesn't have the commanding presence Beckett had.

So, I do worry how Beckett can be successfully incorporated into future storylines, because I don't think the position they've left him in, combined with Jewel's Keller remaining as CMO and being promoted to a regular cast member bodes well at all. My feeling is this could have been done better. :)

Integrabyte
March 5th, 2008, 04:28 AM
Yes, that was Paul. He is absolutely brilliant in A Dog's Breakfast.

You mean him? :D

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/198/vlcsnap933288ws5.png
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7463/vlcsnap933350db8.png

Falcon Horus
March 5th, 2008, 04:30 AM
You mean him? :D

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/198/vlcsnap933288ws5.png
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7463/vlcsnap933350db8.png


I should watch that movie again... Later today, after class & Torchwood. *nods*

bluealien
March 5th, 2008, 08:04 AM
I'm sorry you feel that way. Carson is back and he is the same ol' Carson clone or not.
Well that's the problem .. he is not the same ol' Carson but the tpb seem to think that a clone is just as good as the real thing and have him acting like the same ol' Carson. Can a clone replace someone you love and just take over where they left off.



I'm very pleased with how they did this. I wouldn't like him usurping Keller. They could use him as a doctor once they are sure he is not a security risk.
I moved on from Carson and have accepted Keller now as CMO.. she's not prefect by any means and I still find her unbelievabe as CMO at times, but I'd prefer her any day now over a Carson clone, but I'm sure the clone will get dragged out of statis every now and then to solve some medical problem that Keller can't deal with..



I agree that it was a mistake to kill Carson but I don't believe their choice here was. I love Keller especially her interaction with Carson.

I don't know about it being a mistake. It's realistic that people die in dangerous situations and I thought Sunday was one of the most poignant eps of SGA but now it's just a joke IMO. Carson was never a big part of SGA for me.. I thought his character was ok but SGA has being doing fine without him.

Integrabyte
March 5th, 2008, 09:53 AM
I should watch that movie again... Later today, after class & Torchwood. *nods*


Carson is not a clone in there, that is for sure :D. This clone idea stinks :P

Skydiver
March 5th, 2008, 09:55 AM
with kindred tehy did what tptb did for Meridian...turned an emotional episode into a joke

Integrabyte
March 5th, 2008, 09:57 AM
with kindred tehy did what tptb did for Meridian...turned an emotional episode into a joke

The only difference, Daniel's memories came back with some more goodies. The new Carson missed quite a lot and I wonder how he'll get those memories in S5 :P

Mitchell82
March 5th, 2008, 11:34 AM
The real Carson died in Sunday. The clone is a rip off.

I disagree. He may be a clone but he is still the same ol' Carson.

Integrabyte
March 5th, 2008, 11:37 AM
I disagree. He may be a clone but he is still the same ol' Carson.

Slight problem :P. He does not have tons of memories, whereas the real Carson... :P

Mitchell82
March 5th, 2008, 11:39 AM
Slight problem :P. He does not have tons of memories, whereas the real Carson... :P

True he doesn't have all his memories but the heart of the character is still there.

Integrabyte
March 5th, 2008, 11:43 AM
True he doesn't have all his memories but the heart of the character is still there.

He is incomplete. This is not the Carson we knew before he died in Sunday. The heart might be there but it still is not the same. The expedition and clone Carson are not on the same wavelength. The real Carson developed his relationship with everyone to a certain level. The "clone" Carson has no idea how close these people were. He was a bit shocked to see Rodney happy like a kid on X-mas eve. This is crap from TPTB. This reminds me of Anubis, Oma could not send him back all the way so he remained between plaines. TPTB did not fully reset Carson, but only a little :P

Willow'sCat
March 5th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Oh yeah it was a joke. Best joke EVAH! Funniest episode EVAH!. I laughed my @ss off when they put Carson into the stasis chamber and everyone was saying goodbye.

Well I laughed. It was so funny that fans now have this thing in deep freeze. I am so sure that is what the fans wanted. LOL! :p

meezergater
March 5th, 2008, 11:56 AM
*grinn*, Hell, i will have a Carson in my deepfreeze anytime;))
(mmmh does sound a bit creepy though;))

Mitchell82
March 5th, 2008, 01:09 PM
He is incomplete. This is not the Carson we knew before he died in Sunday. The heart might be there but it still is not the same. The expedition and clone Carson are not on the same wavelength. The real Carson developed his relationship with everyone to a certain level. The "clone" Carson has no idea how close these people were. He was a bit shocked to see Rodney happy like a kid on X-mas eve. This is crap from TPTB. This reminds me of Anubis, Oma could not send him back all the way so he remained between plaines. TPTB did not fully reset Carson, but only a little :P
I see your point and yes he is not the same Carson things are different and there is bound to be varried reactions. I still think the core of the character despite the differences is unchanged.

Skydiver
March 6th, 2008, 04:30 AM
he'll just read elizabeth's forgotten journals and be all caught up on the plot in no time thanks to the eidetic memory michael gave him ;)

Briangate78
March 6th, 2008, 05:57 AM
He is incomplete. This is not the Carson we knew before he died in Sunday. The heart might be there but it still is not the same. The expedition and clone Carson are not on the same wavelength. The real Carson developed his relationship with everyone to a certain level. The "clone" Carson has no idea how close these people were. He was a bit shocked to see Rodney happy like a kid on X-mas eve. This is crap from TPTB. This reminds me of Anubis, Oma could not send him back all the way so he remained between plaines. TPTB did not fully reset Carson, but only a little :P

You are right he is not the same. He will be even better than the original Carson!

Integrabyte
March 6th, 2008, 06:17 AM
You are right he is not the same. He will be even better than the original Carson!

A vote of confidence from Brian. Who can argue with that?

Briangate78
March 6th, 2008, 06:20 AM
A vote of confidence from Brian. Who can argue with that?

Just making it be known, that's all. ;)

maxbo
March 6th, 2008, 08:40 AM
What do I think of Carson's return? I loved it. In fact, I loved it even more than I thought I would. I didn't realize how much I had missed Carson until he returned and his being a clone didn't hinder that enjoyment one bit.

My only concern is that I wonder what the ultimate plan is for Carson because although his being a clone didn't effect my appreciation of the character, I wonder if that will be used as a reason to kill him off again after Season 5.

As it stands right now, there is no regular place in Atlantis for this new Carson because, as a clone, he can't be the CMO again and he's only scheduled for 5 episodes in Season 5, so I'm concerned about what will happen to him on the long run.

Briangate78
March 6th, 2008, 08:48 AM
What do I think of Carson's return? I loved it. In fact, I loved it even more than I thought I would. I didn't realize how much I had missed Carson until he returned and his being a clone didn't hinder that enjoyment one bit.

My only concern is that I wonder what the ultimate plan is for Carson because although his being a clone didn't effect my appreciation of the character, I wonder if that will be used as a reason to kill him off again after Season 5.

As it stands right now, there is no regular place in Atlantis for this new Carson because, as a clone, he can't be the CMO again and he's only scheduled for 5 episodes in Season 5, so I'm concerned about what will happen to him on the long run.

I think it's an opportunity to write him back into the show. If there is a Season 6 pick-up, I think his episode quantity will at least double from Season 5. Also, he is returning for at least 5 eps. I think they might add more towards the back of the season. Not all the eps have been scripted out yet.

Arica12
March 6th, 2008, 08:50 AM
I'm glad Carson's back, I enjoyed the Kindred and at least having Carson there gives me a reason to watch some episodes next year (I will not be watching the rest).

I guess what I'm disappointed about is not the clone angle, I like ethical dilemas and moral ambiguity, what I'm disappointed about is how....unoriginal this story was. I mean I enjoyed it, it was good, but it was predictable. Nothing happened that hadn't already been guessed months ago. I wanted to see something big, something epic. Start a new storyline, jut something that made me go wow!!!, not, that was quite good!

maxbo
March 6th, 2008, 09:10 AM
I think it's an opportunity to write him back into the show. If there is a Season 6 pick-up, I think his episode quantity will at least double from Season 5. Also, he is returning for at least 5 eps. I think they might add more towards the back of the season. Not all the eps have been scripted out yet.

That's what I'm hoping for. Afterall, at the beginning of Season 4, Keller was only confirmed for 8 episodes and that increased as the Season went on. I suppose we'll have a better feel of how they're going to handle this once we see the Season 5 episodes.

Briangate78
March 6th, 2008, 09:12 AM
That's what I'm hoping for. Afterall, at the beginning of Season 4, Keller was only confirmed for 8 episodes and that increased as the Season went on. I suppose we'll have a better feel of how they're going to handle this once we see the Season 5 episodes.

Yeah, we have to see what Season 5 holds. Again, I still like to see more than 5 eps. I think 7 or 8 sounds pretty healty. :)

miss_kaylee
March 6th, 2008, 09:21 AM
What do I think of Carson's return? I loved it. In fact, I loved it even more than I thought I would. I didn't realize how much I had missed Carson until he returned and his being a clone didn't hinder that enjoyment one bit.

My only concern is that I wonder what the ultimate plan is for Carson because although his being a clone didn't effect my appreciation of the character, I wonder if that will be used as a reason to kill him off again after Season 5.

As it stands right now, there is no regular place in Atlantis for this new Carson because, as a clone, he can't be the CMO again and he's only scheduled for 5 episodes in Season 5, so I'm concerned about what will happen to him on the long run.
Could the writer bring him over to the purposed third spin off series?

jelgate
March 6th, 2008, 09:23 AM
Could the writer bring him over to the purposed third spin off series?

Then people will be yelling SGA ripoff versues the SG1 ripoff.

miss_kaylee
March 6th, 2008, 09:36 AM
Then people will be yelling SGA ripoff versues the SG1 ripoff.
True, I would think from a viewer stand point, you bring a known character to it so it kinda connect the shows without being a ripoff. Plus then you can keep Keller on SGA and you got a use for Carson.

maxbo
March 6th, 2008, 09:53 AM
Could the writer bring him over to the purposed third spin off series?

Hmmm, I wouldn't mind seeing that.

ShadowMaat
March 6th, 2008, 11:39 AM
If it was bringing over one character I don't think it'd be much of a problem (although there are always those who'd beg to differ). The problem is that crossovers seem to be like potato chips: one is never enough.

You start off with CC as your bridge. Fine. Then at some point CC runs into a problem that coincidentally happens to be Keller's area of expertise. Boom, now Keller's visiting. But fine, crossovers are expected, right? Then something else comes up and Shep pops by for a visit. Maybe he brings Rodney with him. After all, I'm sure Rodney can find some trouble to cause in whatever show he's on. OK, still understandable and maybe this time it's a situation only Rodney could handle. But then there's a political situation that develops and requires Woolsey's help. Or maybe even the coordinated effort of the whole team. Hmmm. It's bound to happen, right? I mean, politics follow you everywhere and Woolsey sure knows the political game. Then maybe for a switch it's Atlantis who needs the help and sends, I dunno, Teyla for help. Atlantis has needed SG-1's help often enough so needing SGU's help isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it doesn't end there, does it? Soon someone gets killed off of SGU and bingo, they decide to bring in Lorne as a replacement. Bump him up a rank to make it extra spiffy. Lorne fans will be happy to follow their favorite guy and naturally SGU fans won't complain because crossovers happen and it's only to be expected, right? And at least TPTB are giving us someone we know instead of creating a whole new character, as they are wont to do.

Maybe now they can work on the Carson/Lorne dynamic and reveal aspects of a long friendship we never knew existed on Atlantis. All for the good, right? But it doesn't end there. Maybe at some point Ronon has to pop by for a visit and test out SGU's Alien Warrior Dude to make sure he measures up. Plus, of course, visit with Carson and Lorne. After all, they used to work together so it'd be weird if they didn't hang out. And let's not forget Caldwell and the other ship captains, they're bound to be passing through SGU's neck of the woods on occasion.

Or if you like you can reverse things a bit and have Keller be the crossover character who needs CC's help at some point and then you can add a whole new 'ship when you bring Lorne over because naturally those two had a thing for each other on Atlantis. :rolleyes:

ANYWAY, I'll be interested to see how the Keller vs. CC thing is handled next season... and if both of them manage to come out of it alive. ;) I have a feeling that whatever happens some of the Carson fans won't be happy about it. I also worry about Keller's future. I know she's not a popular character, but I don't like to see ANY character treated like dirt and the fact that she's going to be a regular next season makes me very leery. That's what they did to Carson and look at the mess that made. At the very least we probably won't be seeing much of her anymore, which should make some people happy, although when we do see her it'll probably be for frivolous and non-essential reasons that relate more to Jewel's contract than a need for the character. With at least two new female characters being introduced AND the change in command to handle, there just won't be time to deal with Keller anymore.

I also wonder how much time will actually be spent on developing a cure for CC's genetic issues. Even if they raid Michael's lab and steal his supply of quik-fix, a character who needs regular injections would be very inconvenient on a show like Atlantis. More likely they'll find some permanent solution and it'll all be forgotten and CC will be written as the "real" Carson instead of as a clone who spent two years as a Wraith POW.

miss_kaylee
March 6th, 2008, 01:01 PM
If it was bringing over one character I don't think it'd be much of a problem (although there are always those who'd beg to differ). The problem is that crossovers seem to be like potato chips: one is never enough.

You start off with CC as your bridge. Fine. Then at some point CC runs into a problem that coincidentally happens to be Keller's area of expertise. Boom, now Keller's visiting. But fine, crossovers are expected, right? Then something else comes up and Shep pops by for a visit. Maybe he brings Rodney with him. After all, I'm sure Rodney can find some trouble to cause in whatever show he's on. OK, still understandable and maybe this time it's a situation only Rodney could handle. But then there's a political situation that develops and requires Woolsey's help. Or maybe even the coordinated effort of the whole team. Hmmm. It's bound to happen, right? I mean, politics follow you everywhere and Woolsey sure knows the political game. Then maybe for a switch it's Atlantis who needs the help and sends, I dunno, Teyla for help. Atlantis has needed SG-1's help often enough so needing SGU's help isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it doesn't end there, does it? Soon someone gets killed off of SGU and bingo, they decide to bring in Lorne as a replacement. Bump him up a rank to make it extra spiffy. Lorne fans will be happy to follow their favorite guy and naturally SGU fans won't complain because crossovers happen and it's only to be expected, right? And at least TPTB are giving us someone we know instead of creating a whole new character, as they are wont to do.

Maybe now they can work on the Carson/Lorne dynamic and reveal aspects of a long friendship we never knew existed on Atlantis. All for the good, right? But it doesn't end there. Maybe at some point Ronon has to pop by for a visit and test out SGU's Alien Warrior Dude to make sure he measures up. Plus, of course, visit with Carson and Lorne. After all, they used to work together so it'd be weird if they didn't hang out. And let's not forget Caldwell and the other ship captains, they're bound to be passing through SGU's neck of the woods on occasion.

Or if you like you can reverse things a bit and have Keller be the crossover character who needs CC's help at some point and then you can add a whole new 'ship when you bring Lorne over because naturally those two had a thing for each other on Atlantis. :rolleyes:

ANYWAY, I'll be interested to see how the Keller vs. CC thing is handled next season... and if both of them manage to come out of it alive. ;) I have a feeling that whatever happens some of the Carson fans won't be happy about it. I also worry about Keller's future. I know she's not a popular character, but I don't like to see ANY character treated like dirt and the fact that she's going to be a regular next season makes me very leery. That's what they did to Carson and look at the mess that made. At the very least we probably won't be seeing much of her anymore, which should make some people happy, although when we do see her it'll probably be for frivolous and non-essential reasons that relate more to Jewel's contract than a need for the character. With at least two new female characters being introduced AND the change in command to handle, there just won't be time to deal with Keller anymore.

I also wonder how much time will actually be spent on developing a cure for CC's genetic issues. Even if they raid Michael's lab and steal his supply of quik-fix, a character who needs regular injections would be very inconvenient on a show like Atlantis. More likely they'll find some permanent solution and it'll all be forgotten and CC will be written as the "real" Carson instead of as a clone who spent two years as a Wraith POW.
I understand about crossovers. That was the only way I could think of where Beckett and Keller could both shine without pushing the other one to the back ground. The only other solution I could have think of would have been having them both recurring but since Keller is a regular, it going not happen this season. It would not fair to her to pushed a side by a recurring person. Maybe the only other way to bring him back without hurting Keller's slot is that instead of being the doctor, he goes to the scientist role more.

Thunderbird 2
March 6th, 2008, 02:33 PM
Sometimes crossovers can work - Star Trek has done it quite well in the past, and anyone who has been watching the current third season of Torchwood will have been plesantly suprprised too! (No spoilers there, don't worry.)

I guess I am disapointed, because I feel like the character that represents me and a lot of things I believe in (and not just because I am Scottish!) was taken away from me in a pointless and somewhat unbelievable way, and the writers have brought a different version in thats ' a broken toy.' Like the - "replace the dead goldfish and hope they don't notice its got a gammy fin" kind of thing. It makes their lives easier narratively speaking, while trying to keep the absolute finality of Sunday intact. - "Doctor Beckett is dead, get over it folks." I know I am being unfair - I don't envy them their job - but its how I feel.

In a bigger scale, Atlantis has always niggled the media critic in me because it has always tried to be bigger in scale and scope compared to SG1. Unfortunately, many of the aspects that make SG1 so strong to me are the smaller things. Team cameraderie, the careful and clever use of history, political intrigue, mythology and the blending in the real world amongst the thumps bangs and explosions. - Not to mention a steady transition of development in the characters, their situations and who is who in the cast. - To me, Atlantis has never quite been able to match up to that. No mythology beyond the city itself, clunky and unbalanced character development (Shep and Mckay yes, versus Teyla and Ford no,) and a serious lack of granduer or sense of wonder. I kept watching then reading, because there are aspects of the programme I like, and there is potential for something spectacular here.

Dr Beckett was a refreshing aspect of grounded reality. He was a normal person doing his job, thinking about everyone else, and what little we saw of him as a person reminded me that these people had lives before the stargate programme, and aren't all military, scientific egg head or diplomatic types. He was the essence of civillians caught up in something far beyond us and quite special.

In Poisoning The Well Dr Becketts strength comes from his overwhelming need to help other people. When that backfires in the episode he take the burden of responsibility on his shoulders for what he has done, and on a personal level pays the price too. Its a strong story and everyone does well in it, but it is very much the good Doctor's tale beacuse it is about him as a person as miuch as a medical man.
Added to that Mr McGillion's powerful presence in the role helped to act as 'glue' between all the characters. It was Beckett Teyla turned to for help with Charran, and only Beckett could draw Weir out of herself in Return Part II. Beckett brings out the better qualities in Mckay (something I thought impossible) and he is a reminder that even those of us who have had a fairly normal upbringing can make a difference.

I guess I am disapointed because it was too much to expect that we could get that character back. In plotline terms the family connection aspects have been transfered to McKay with his sister. (The Hewlett sibings are facinating to watch at work.) Keller is the Doctor on call now, nixing the medical aspects and expertise, and from the fact Clone Carson is a copy, any and all new aspects of the character can be explained away, while doing away with established details. - Carson killed 20 Wraith single handedly? must be his genetic manipulation! Urgh.

The result is a new character that can be used to manipulate the viewer into watching - yes he is Carson, while giving the narrative freedom to have him do anything, anywhere at any time and explain it away that he isn't Doctor Beckett. I'm sorry guys, I didn't mean to write a book, but Dr Beckett was, and still my favorite Sci Fi character. Its just a shame that the character is dead and buried and the writers couldn't have found a way to bring him back.

As for the Carson clone - I am doing a mental reset button. Same actor? Very good. Different character? - (Picks up a copy of SG1 - "Roswell" and walks off...)

ShadowMaat
March 6th, 2008, 05:59 PM
It would not fair to her to pushed a side by a recurring person. Maybe the only other way to bring him back without hurting Keller's slot is that instead of being the doctor, he goes to the scientist role more.
Fair? Since when has anything in life been fair? ;) Would it be fair to boot Keller to make room for Carson? No, but look what happened with Jonas and Daniel. Is it fair to bump someone up to regular just so you can say, "See? We can make it dangerous, we can kill off REGULARS!"? Nope, but Beckett's already been down that route. Whatever happens with the Keller/Beckett thing, odds are someone's going to lose. And it'll be anything but fair. ;)

Having Carson in a non-doctor role or maybe more in Research Mode while Keller handles the hands-on stuff is an interesting thought, but I'm not sure if fans could accept that. Granted, TPTB have made it pretty clear that they generally don't give a fig what fans think/want, but they also tend to put their characters in pretty little boxes and Carson's box says "doctor" so I dunno if they'd be able to find another box for him. :D

ciannwn
March 7th, 2008, 01:06 AM
Having Carson in a non-doctor role or maybe more in Research Mode while Keller handles the hands-on stuff is an interesting thought, but I'm not sure if fans could accept that.

I could accept that. The way SGA went, Beckett ended up as more of a researcher than a doctor anyway as far as his function on the show is concerned.

Integrabyte
March 7th, 2008, 01:37 AM
It would not fair to her to pushed a side by a recurring person. Maybe the only other way to bring him back without hurting Keller's slot is that instead of being the doctor, he goes to the scientist role more.

Why not? He was with the expedition from the beginning, she showed up 3 years later because he died. Now that he is back, and if you recall in First Strike she wanted a temporary assignment, she can skedaddle :P. Nobody is forcing her to stay. In this episode Carson showed Keller what perseverance and determinance means. She was like, oh well...code is complicated we won't be able to do anything, so let us give up. She felt embarrased that Carson dying was working his ass off so at the end she played the hero 'I have my best team working on the cure'. Hahaha the same way they were working on this random plague that suddenly appeared? She plays drinking games, whom would you ... games, almost snoggs Ronon, whines Teyla to death and suddenly in one episode we find out that she was very busy with a virus outbreak in the PG. Hahhaha, she cracks me up ....

elliecat
March 7th, 2008, 03:28 AM
Why not? He was with the expedition from the beginning, she showed up 3 years later because he died. Now that he is back, and if you recall in First Strike she wanted a temporary assignment, she can skedaddle :P. Nobody is forcing her to stay. In this episode Carson showed Keller what perseverance and determinance means. She was like, oh well...code is complicated we won't be able to do anything, so let us give up. She felt embarrased that Carson dying was working his ass off so at the end she played the hero 'I have my best team working on the cure'. Hahaha the same way they were working on this random plague that suddenly appeared? She plays drinking games, whom would you ... games, almost snoggs Ronon, whines Teyla to death and suddenly in one episode we find out that she was very busy with a virus outbreak in the PG. Hahhaha, she cracks me up ....

ha ha love what you're saying! agree agree agree. poor carson i'd be worried about getting out of stasis ever again
what with all her man-hunting, whining and drinking games, where will she find the time to find a cure? poor mary sue, you knew it would be tough on atlantis, admit you can't handle it and GO HOME!

meezergater
March 7th, 2008, 03:35 AM
mmhhh, i think Keller and Carson did pretty wel in their scenes together on The Kindred 2.
and the fact that Carson was allowed to step in with the wounded guy brought back to atlantis and what's more allowed to step into the theatre to operate on him allongside Keller (if all for his own failing health at that moment) makes me think that in essence they don't have a problem at Atlantis in bringing back Carson into the medic-team.
He still is the expert in his field, which they need badly and he has the extra knowledge about what Michael all perfromed in the last 2 years with his virus.
Count in the fact that Carson is the more experienced Doc/CMO as also was shown when he took into full gear over the hessitating Keller and i think that a double Doc-team wouldn't be much of a problem and in fact for the character of Keller not a bad at all, to lift some of that "plain" aspect and get her caracter more in perspective as the junior doc.

also other options could go to keep them both in the show, like one of the two goes with the bad guys. (allthough in the case of Carson i don't think that would go very well with the fans;)).

I think this slightly other Carson, which is somewhat "Darker' and troubled then the good old happy doc, but still has all the loved Carson features is very interesting and has lots of more oportunities for the show and for Paul to play out some real interesting dillema's and other sides of the Carson personallity.

just my 2 cents

PG15
March 7th, 2008, 02:24 PM
ha ha love what you're saying! agree agree agree. poor carson i'd be worried about getting out of stasis ever again
what with all her man-hunting, whining and drinking games, where will she find the time to find a cure? poor mary sue, you knew it would be tough on atlantis, admit you can't handle it and GO HOME!

Obviously you don't know what a Mary Sue is.

And Beckett's in S5; you don't have to worry about that.

AutumnDream
March 7th, 2008, 07:26 PM
It's good to see Beckett. I was never a huge fan but I always liked him. I don't have any particular problem with Keller, other than her being exactly the sort of static "role" character the show relies on. If SGA goes on another 5 seasons, I'm sure she will be exactly the same then as she is now. We might know a couple more trivial facts about her, but the character will still amount to the role. She will deliver exposition about the latest medical crisis and deal with it. That's it. If characters are going to be restricted to their "role boxes", I'd probably rather see Beckett as the medical exposition puppet instead.

stargatelvr
March 11th, 2008, 02:04 PM
It was awesome to finally have him back. And heartbreaking, because he's only got five next season.

queerofatlantis
March 12th, 2008, 08:04 AM
it was good to have carson back. i liked the way him and keller worked together.

Sailornova
March 13th, 2008, 08:27 PM
I love having Carson back! I think they proved that you CAN have 2 doctors
working together! They NEED to fix Carson so he'll live!! Ronan was funny in the episode! Rodney needed to hug Carson, though!:)