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**Icarium** · 23 February 2008, 10:44 AM

What else could I add here? I totally agree. Certainly, I wouldn't enjoy the show without the Wraith as much as now

But I will wait with 'depression mood' until next week...

Icarium

**Mitchell82** · 23 February 2008, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that TPTB will soon eliminate all Wraith from the Pegasus galaxy. Between their own civil war, the Replicators, a poisoned food supply, and now Michael's planned army, Wraith as we know them are unlikely to survive through next season, or two.

I would hate to see that happen. I would also hate to see a 'humanizing' of them in an attempt to give them an alternate food supply. One of the best things about these guys is their appearance - I love the long, white hair, the nasty teeth, the green skin - the great clothes.

Physically, they are perfect as is. I also love how they feed on humans, and would hate to see that option taken away from them. Alternative food source? YES. Lose their taste for humans or their appearance? NO.

And I would really hate to see all Wraith - with their queens and hives and biotech and silky hair and black coats - exterminated from the Pegasus Galaxy like the Ori were in SG1.

I see your point but the only reason the Ori were killed off so soon is because the show was canned and they had to find a way to finish the storyline. I don't think that this is where they are going. The Wraith may be thinned down a bit but killed off? Probably not.

If the Wraith were eliminated, would it affect your personal enjoyment of the show? I know it would for me because - despite my enjoyment of the other characters - I only got hooked on SGA because of the Wraith (similarly, I watched Star Trek mainly for the Klingons). I love an 'enemy' who is well-developed (as the Wraith are slowly becoming), and who can play on both teams (as Todd and his associates do). Instead of eliminating them, I'd really like to see these guys come into their own through a continued development of Wraith characters, instead of just being cannon fodder until another, more menacing, enemy comes along. And I certainly do NOT want to see them written out of the show.

So - your thoughts. I'm really not sure how much - if any - Wraith-love there is out there, so just trying to figure out how others feel about a possible elimination of the Wraith from the Stargate universe.

das

I love the Wraith they are a very unique enemy. I may not like it if they kill them off but they are far from the main reason I watch the show. I watch for the storyline with all the characters and believe even if the Wraith are written off they can still do a damn good job. So yeah I don't want them written off but I won't give up on the show just for that.

**GoSpikey** · 23 February 2008, 12:33 PM

Das, I'm not even going to read this.

They won't kill them all. We really haven't seen much of the Wraith since they tried to attack Atlantis the first time. If they don't come for Atlantis, there's not much fun to it... As the Wraith probably won't attack cos they're too weak and too devided themselves. Don't forget there's probably 5 Hives out there who know that the Lanteans are still out there (Todd's buddies minus the ones who shot his Hive) and yet they don't come.

We see a lot of Todd and Mikey, but Todd isn't directed against the Lanteans, yet, his first goal is the other Wraith, so he doesn't count. Mikey does some damage, but will be stopped some day.

New villain is needed to entertain us in between Wraith episodes.

**PG15** · 23 February 2008, 05:52 PM

They are the villains of this show, and thus, they will be defeated one day.

I don't see the problem here.

**dasNdanger** · 23 February 2008, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by PG15

They are the villains of this show, and thus, they will be defeated one day.

I don't see the problem here.

Well, the problem is that the Wraith are already defeated in nearly every meeting with the Lanteans so far - it gets a bit old after a while. There are alternatives to defeat - a truce, an alliance, a resolution to the feeding problem. All would make for more interesting scenarios than a simple 'defeat - woot! We won!' end to the Wraith.

Originally posted by SpetzAU

My take is that the Wraith will not be eliminated from the SGA universe, the writers just want to severely minimise their presence. This would not disappoint me.

This would not disappoint me, either. Minimize their presence, and let other baddies rise up (ones most of us wouldn't mind seeing killed off), and then use the Wraith more effectively...make their appearances more profound, more meaningful, more developed - which brings me to your other comment:

Here is the problem with the Wraith: there is only ONE charismatic/entertaining Wraith, that being Todd. We need more than one interesting and regularly recurring Wraith. The writers have not developed the Wraith arc adequately enough even after 4 seasons of SGA. I'd bet that deep down, the writers grudgingly acknowledge this.

We have not seen one other regularly recurring Wraith who is tough, greedy, crazy, smart, has mysterious motives or is just plain entertaining.

Let me be clear, Todd as a character is very good, being a Wraith doesn't even come into it. Keep Todd, but put the bulk of the Wraith arc on the backburner. Bring on Michael, he wants to establish a new order in Pegasus. He is a blank slate as far as a story arc goes; here's a chance for a fresh long term arc to be developed.

Couldn't agree with you more - with the exception of Michael. I no longer see Michael as Wraith - and so I don't think he should be the other face of the Wraith, but be developed on his own.

But I, too, would love to see more Wraith strongly developed - yes - put the cannon fodder-Wraith on the back burner, and introduce more individual Wraith to develop. Todd is a given, but I would love to see James Lafazanos return as a re-occurring Wraith character, though I don't know if that's possible. But he was very good, too...and there is at least one of his characters who is still 'alive' out there - the Wraith from Condemned. He would be a nice counterpart for Todd - One all superior and 'civilized' and slimy as a snake (and it's SO obvious), and the other a little rougher around the edges, but ultimately the more gentlemanly - and perhaps the more deceitful - of the two. Or they could just create new, interesting Wraith characters. I mean, we've had at least three re-occurring Genii characters, and they're not nearly as interesting as the Wraith (but they are MUCH more fun to kill off!).

Getting back to Michael - yes - he can develop his new way, see how that goes. Clean slate, as you say. No objection to that as long as it doesn't spell an end to all Wraith. But a galaxy is a big place, so he could certainly try things his way...until he needs to be annihilated, too.

Thanks, everyone - enjoying your comments! Keep 'em coming!

das

**Sparrow_hawk** · 23 February 2008, 08:00 PM

Aaaiiiiii! Eliminate the Wraith? You should never even THINK nasty, depressing thoughts like that.

Like you, das, I got hooked on SGA for the Wraith. I saw the last few minutes of the Seer, then went back and picked up the rest of the episodes. Would it affect my enjoyment of the show if the Wraith were eliminated? Definitely! To be honest, I would probably stop watching SGA.

I confess that I have a soft spot for villains. Nothing makes me happier than a great villain or anti-hero mixed into a plot. The Wraith fit the bill perfectly. They are visually stunning and their life-draining attack is truly creepy. They are a novel concept that still has a great deal of potential.

Feeding on humans is IMO an essential part of their nature. Taking away their "need to feed" would render them essentially impotent as villains.

Todd is a great character and I still haven't completely figured out what he is up to -- which is as it should be. Michael is a great character in his own right. He reminds me of a lot of tragic, doomed anime villains, driven by horrendous events in their past to create what they believe is a better world. This often involves wiping mankind off the face of the earth so the planet can get a fresh start.

Spoiler:

Rather than minimize the Wraith's role I would like to see the writers continue to feature them in story arcs as they do now. But, please, NOT humanized. And I would enjoy seeing the occasional reluctant alliance between Wraith and Lanteans. But not TOO often.

Rant ended.

**Blistna** · 23 February 2008, 08:17 PM

First off, I purposely only read the first post here -- so if i repeat something, sorry!

Anyway...I like the Wraith, but I don't think they are going away. I think they are going to be less of a concern...i think they new hybrids will be worse of a threat (like others have said...he is smarter, and I think it was because he was with us for a short while). Also, he has "help"....

But, with that said, their bio-tech wont go away because of Micheal -- he knows wraith tech, why would he make different ones? But really, Season Four/Five will probably be like season 7/8, where the goa'uld became less of an enemy, and the replicators become more of a problem...but in this case, its' the Wraith are less of a problem, and Micheal and his hybrids become more of a problem.

But I do think that Todd will survive. And I think he will be our greatest enemy in the end -- I mean, he worked with us, knows how we think -- hell, he alone might know where Earth is (he was at earth, and who knows...maybe he put acvtivated his tracking device...and the spoiler tag could have posible spoilers for season five or the rest of the season)

Spoiler:

.

So...yea.

**dasNdanger** · 23 February 2008, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Sparrow_hawk

Aaaiiiiii! Eliminate the Wraith? You should never even THINK nasty, depressing thoughts like that.

Like you, das, I got hooked on SGA for the Wraith. I saw the last few minutes of the Seer, then went back and picked up the rest of the episodes. Would it affect my enjoyment of the show if the Wraith were eliminated? Definitely! To be honest, I would probably stop watching SGA.

Yeah, I'm afraid that would happen with me, too. Back when I watched Star Trek Voyager, there was this one episode where Janeway made a god-like decision (against the advice of others), and it totally turned me off of the show, and I never watched again. I watch TV to be entertained - not pissed off or worse - depressed - so I won't invest my time and energy in a show that robs me of joy. And right now, the Wraith bring me joy.

I confess that I have a soft spot for villains. Nothing makes me happier than a great villain or anti-hero mixed into a plot. The Wraith fit the bill perfectly.

My biggest 'problem' is that I don't see them as villains! I see them as antagonists...yes, but not true villains. A villain is someone evil to the core (as Michael may now be - as Kolia was), but the Wraith do not fit that bill simply because they are acting - not on hate or evil impulses - but on the instinct to feed, and to survive. They are just a different species. Are they creepy and scary? Yes. But I can't see them as villains any more than I can see spiders as 'evil', just because I happen to be afraid of them.

They are visually stunning and their life-draining attack is truly creepy. They are a novel concept that still has a great deal of potential.

Visually stunning - totally agree. The most stunning of all was Steve - really wish they'd bring someone like him back. His air of conceit and confidence was perfect...I just love to look at him - truly a work of art.

I don't find their feeding to be creepy. I find it rather fascinating. It is their most basic need...their whole reason for fighting, for attacking, for hunting. When they feed they are fulfilling their goal, fufilling their reason for emerging from the hive in the first place. It reminds me of the day I was sitting at my kitchen window, and a beautiful hawk swooped down and took out a pigeon in my back yard. I could have felt sorry for the pigeon, but I didn't. I sat there watching - fascinated - as the hawk fed upon the pigeon - the way it looked around, keeping a sharp eye out for danger...the way took care of its own needs and means of survival.

So...yeah - the feeding thing doesn't creep me out. It SCARES me - wouldn't want to be on the sucking end of that hand - but I simply see it as their means of survival, and nothing sinister in it at all.

Feeding on humans is IMO an essential part of their nature. Taking away their "need to feed" would render them essentially impotent as villains.

Exactly. Find an alternative food source, perhaps - but never take away their complete 'need to feed'. Even with an alternative food source, a Wraith could still DESIRE to feed on humans, a desire that he'd have to work very hard to suppress if he wished to peacefully co-exist with humans. I said elsewhere that I would not mind seeing such a turn - if only a FEW Wraith decided to accept this alternative. But would hate to see the majority become vegetarians, or something...that would be silly.

Todd is a great character and I still haven't completely figured out what he is up to -- which is as it should be. Michael is a great character in his own right. He reminds me of a lot of tragic, doomed anime villains, driven by horrendous events in their past to create what they believe is a better world. This often involves wiping mankind off the face of the earth so the planet can get a fresh start.

Spoiler:

Yeah - Todd is still hard to read, but I love him anyway. And Michael is certainly a tragic character - no matter what he does, I still feel an amount of pity for him. However, I do not like his plans for the Wraith, and so - in that regard - I don't feel the same towards him - or his future - as I feel towards Todd.

Rather than minimize the Wraith's role I would like to see the writers continue to feature them in story arcs as they do now. But, please, NOT humanized. And I would enjoy seeing the occasional reluctant alliance between Wraith and Lanteans. But not TOO often.

Again - totally agree. Don't want to OVERdo the alliance thing (unless it becomes a permanent alliance, without the need to 'ask' for help each time one or the other needs something). Certainly don't want the Wraith humanized. They must keep that gorgeous hair, those wonderful clothes, those beautiful TEETH!

But more importantly, they need to keep their edge...so even when making alliances, I want to see a bit of danger in their eyes. But no more of the betrayal stuff from Allies - again, that aspect of the Wraith has already been explored - let's see them uphold their end of the bargain (as Todd has been doing), and see what develops from there. I love the idea of the different Wraith factions - this allows us to be friends with some, and enemies with others. Just as long as all of our allied Wraith don't keep getting killed off, as like what happened in The Seer, when Todd's hive went boom.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Originally posted by Blistna

First off, I purposely only read the first post here -- so if i repeat something, sorry!

Anyway...I like the Wraith, but I don't think they are going away. I think they are going to be less of a concern...i think they new hybrids will be worse of a threat (like others have said...he is smarter, and I think it was because he was with us for a short while). Also, he has "help"....

But, with that said, their bio-tech wont go away because of Micheal -- he knows wraith tech, why would he make different ones? But really, Season Four/Five will probably be like season 7/8, where the goa'uld became less of an enemy, and the replicators become more of a problem...but in this case, its' the Wraith are less of a problem, and Micheal and his hybrids become more of a problem.

But I do think that Todd will survive. And I think he will be our greatest enemy in the end -- I mean, he worked with us, knows how we think -- hell, he alone might know where Earth is (he was at earth, and who knows...maybe he put acvtivated his tracking device...and the spoiler tag could have posible spoilers for season five or the rest of the season)

Spoiler:

.

So...yea.

I wouldn't mind Michael and his hybrids becoming more of a problem - as long as the Wraith continue to exist, and show up every so often (both as ally, and as threat). In the end I hope Todd doesn't become our greatest enemy, simply because EVERYone expects him to - they say he's the next 'Ba'al' (sp?). But isn't that just rehashing SG1 plots? It seems too boring and redundant to me. I would much rather see Todd defy ALL expectations, and prove himself our greatest ally - THAT would have a much greater impact, I feel, because we are all expecting him to turn on the Lanteans at any moment. So, it would be the unpredictable course to have him remain our friend, instead of rising to be our ultimate enemy.

But - I suppose that depends on the writers...and, to some extent, the actor's influence. Most actors prefer the role of villain, and would jump at the chance to have his character rise to be the most wicked of them all. So...well...even if Todd does turn on the Lanteans, I'll still love him...just it'll hurt a little more to watch the shows.

Thanks for your comments!

das

**ciannwn** · 24 February 2008, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

but I would love to see James Lafazanos return as a re-occurring Wraith character, though I don't know if that's possible. But he was very good, too...and there is at least one of his characters who is still 'alive' out there - the Wraith from Condemned.

I'd love to see James Lafazanos play this character again as well. One good thing about the Wraith makeup, though, is that the same Wraith can be played by different actors. The 'Condmend' Wraith could be brought back if they found an actor with the same height and build.

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

I would also hate to see a 'humanizing' of them in an attempt to give them an alternate food supply. One of the best things about these guys is their appearance - I love the long, white hair, the nasty teeth, the green skin - the great clothes. Physically, they are perfect as is. I also love how they feed on humans, and would hate to see that option taken away from them. Alternative food source? YES. Lose their taste for humans or their appearance? NO.

Maybe Wraith will be able to adapt Michael's technology so they can eat ordinary food without becoming too human in appearance. It's unlikely that they'd want to be human looking hybrids if they could get lunch without going that far.

What puzzles me is the colour of Michael's hair. In 'Michael' I thought the expedition dyed it but it started turning white again. It's now back to being dark even though all the Wraith who were humanised with Beckett's retrovirus kept their original hair colour.

**GoSpikey** · 24 February 2008, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by PG15 View Post

They are the villains of this show, and thus, they will be defeated one day.

I don't see the problem here.

The problem being that Das and me thunk Wraiths?

**JSPuddlejumper** · 24 February 2008, 02:28 PM

Keep Todds/Baals (same thing in SG1) faction alive for old time sakes.

Get rid of the rest of the trash.

Introduce a whole knew enemy from another dimension or universe into Pegasus.

**jelgate** · 24 February 2008, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by GoSpikey View Post

The problem being that Das and me thunk Wraiths?

I didn't know that was possible

**GATEGOD** · 24 February 2008, 04:54 PM

The day the writers kill off the Wraith is the day I stop watching. It was somewhat stupid in my eyes for the system lords to be basically wiped out and to be replaced with a completely new evil enemy that we just now find.. even though the system lords has been going on for so many years, now that the humans are here it ends in 8 years.. yea.. right. So just as they 'limited' the Goa'uld I pray that they don't kill off the Wraith. They already added the replicators to SGA as they did to SG-1. They probably will add the ori or some evil enemy that no one has ever heard of later down the line, but please leave the wraith...

**dasNdanger** · 24 February 2008, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by ciannwn

I'd love to see James Lafazanos play this character again as well. One good thing about the Wraith makeup, though, is that the same Wraith can be played by different actors. The 'Condmend' Wraith could be brought back if they found an actor with the same height and build.

Yes - but could another actor pull off the 'drool'???

Maybe Wraith will be able to adapt Michael's technology so they can eat ordinary food without becoming too human in appearance. It's unlikely that they'd want to be human looking hybrids if they could get lunch without going that far.

Well - cure or not - they certainly can't make Todd look human or else everyone will be going, "Hey - wait...Halling's a...WRAITH??" Talk about confusing those who don't obsess about the show as deeply as we do...

What puzzles me is the colour of Michael's hair. In 'Michael' I thought the expedition dyed it but it started turning white again. It's now back to being dark even though all the Wraith who were humanised with Beckett's retrovirus kept their original hair colour.

I think it's because he kept experimenting until the retrovirus finally worked. He only seems to have one spiracle on his face now, too...so...no longer an albino life-sucking bugman, but a human with Wraith DNA.

das

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