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melfan
February 23rd, 2008, 03:43 AM
So we find out he's not a wraithworshipper. he's a wraith...
hybrid. And did Michael look more human this time around?

Platschu
February 23rd, 2008, 03:44 AM
If I know well, his name is Kannan. Canaan is from Bible. ;)

melfan
February 23rd, 2008, 04:10 AM
If I know well, his name is Kannan. Canaan is from Bible. ;)

I haven't seen his name spelled anywhere and the last spelling I've seen is Kanaan, so I just going with that

JackHarkness_Hot
February 23rd, 2008, 04:59 AM
He's looks more human cos as stated in the episode, he has modified on Dr. Beckett's retrovirus to make "the perfect balance" between Wraith and human which resulted the removal of some Wraith in him [Michael] including the feeding mechanism on his hand and thus that is why, he looks more human.

melfan
February 23rd, 2008, 05:13 AM
He's looks more human cos as stated in the episode, he has modified on Dr. Beckett's retrovirus to make "the perfect balance" between Wraith and human which resulted the removal of some Wraith in him [Michael] including the feeding mechanism on his hand and thus that is why, he looks more human.

Figured as much. Don't know what version of him I like.

Oh yea, I do.

Human Michael! :D

JSPuddlejumper
February 23rd, 2008, 06:22 AM
Conan O'Brien will probably die in the next episode.

Having a soap opera like love affair with Teyla wont wash.

melfan
February 23rd, 2008, 07:28 AM
Conan O'Brien will probably die in the next episode.

Having a soap opera like love affair with Teyla wont wash.

:lol:

Oh my god!
Conan O'Brien is the father of Teylas child! :eek:

And here the writers has led us to believe it was Kanaan! :P

Sweetsong
February 23rd, 2008, 08:43 AM
I thought I'd read somewhere that Kanaan was going to be played by Stelios of 300 (Michael Fassbender) that guy certainly was not him. =/

ShadowMaat
February 23rd, 2008, 01:36 PM
Kanaan is the spelling my closed captioning gave. The name nagged at me for a while- not 'cos of the Canaan thing which I caught and dismissed, but because I could have sworn there was a Kanan in SG-1 and sure enough, there was. Minus the extra a. The actor looked really familiar, too. I kept wanting to make him a Jaffa or Goa'uld. Teal'c's friend, maybe. I'm sure it's someone else entirely, but it keeps bothering me. *shrug* Oh well.

Is this the first time we've seen him? Seems a nice enough sort although the fact that he has Wraith genes too seemed awfully convenient. It also had me wondering if they were related. ;) I'd have thought Teyla would have mentioned it a lot sooner if others in her village were wraith detectors, but maybe she made an offhand comment along the way and I never picked up on it. Or forgot. :D

I wonder what Michael did to him. And did he do it to ALL the villagers or just the ones with wraithy senses?

EDIT: Kanaan is how Gateworld is spelling it, too, and looking at pics of him I'm pretty positive he isn't Teal'c's Jaffa buddy, but he still looks kinda familiar.

GoSpikey
February 23rd, 2008, 01:41 PM
:lol:

Oh my god!
Conan O'Brien is the father of Teylas child! :eek:

And here the writers has led us to believe it was Kanaan! :P

Tut tut tut, you've all seen that it's clearly Michael's... :P

Arica12
February 23rd, 2008, 01:44 PM
From a totally shallow point of view I really couldn't see what Teyla was so bothered about over Kanaan. I was hoping for some totally shameless eye candy, instead we go Sheppard's weedy little brother-a-like.

Pity

melfan
February 23rd, 2008, 01:54 PM
Tut tut tut, you've all seen that it's clearly Michael's... :P

If it's turns out that the child has red hair, we see who has the last laugh :P ;)


From a totally shallow point of view I really couldn't see what Teyla was so bothered about over Kanaan. I was hoping for some totally shameless eye candy, instead we go Sheppard's weedy little brother-a-like.

Pity

Shallow person! ;)
I totally understand what you mean, but they have a thing in common. They both have wraith DNA in them, thus makies them a match made in heaven...

prion
February 23rd, 2008, 02:25 PM
Is this the first time we've seen him? Seems a nice enough sort although the fact that he has Wraith genes too seemed awfully convenient. It also had me wondering if they were related. ;) I'd have thought Teyla would have mentioned it a lot sooner if others in her village were wraith detectors, but maybe she made an offhand comment along the way and I never picked up on it. Or forgot. :D
.

I thinkhe was on before. check thsi thread for pictures to compare

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=7780513&postcount=1104

Zamboni
February 23rd, 2008, 03:01 PM
For some reason when I saw the topic title the first thought that entered my mind was...

http://admiralrupert.googlepages.com/kirk.jpg
KHAAAAAAAAAAANNN~~~!!!

Willow'sCat
February 23rd, 2008, 03:34 PM
So we find out he's not a wraithworshipper. he's a wraith...
hybrid. And did Michael look more human this time around?

Is that what he is? A hybrid? I have to say the whole thing was lost on me, I couldn't work out if he was meant to just be a worshipper, an experiment or a new creation, part of Michael's supreme race? A master race I guess? :S

Well it continues to add to the unethical/immoral nature of this retrovirus storyline so I guess it is at least consistent... for a change. :cool:

Rosehawk
February 23rd, 2008, 03:50 PM
Is this the first time we've seen him? Seems a nice enough sort although the fact that he has Wraith genes too seemed awfully convenient. It also had me wondering if they were related. ;) I'd have thought Teyla would have mentioned it a lot sooner if others in her village were wraith detectors, but maybe she made an offhand comment along the way and I never picked up on it. Or forgot. :D

Teyla did mention that there were others, I am not sure the episode but I think it was 'The Gift'. Darn, I don't have time to go check it out right now.

melfan
February 23rd, 2008, 04:17 PM
Is that what he is? A hybrid? I have to say the whole thing was lost on me, I couldn't work out if he was meant to just be a worshipper, an experiment or a new creation, part of Michael's supreme race? A master race I guess? :S

Well it continues to add to the unethical/immoral nature of this retrovirus storyline so I guess it is at least consistent... for a change. :cool:

I hope we get the answers next week

ShadowMaat
February 23rd, 2008, 04:24 PM
Teyla did mention that there were others, I am not sure the episode but I think it was 'The Gift'. Darn, I don't have time to go check it out right now.

I'll take your word for it although that does make me all the more curious as to why Atlantis didn't take advantage of these people when they had the chance. Yes, Teyla had the best relationship with the team, but if anyone had showed even the remotest interest in the Athosians (other than considering them a pain in the ass) then a more in-depth study could have been done into the hows and whys of the "outcasts" abilities as well as giving them a place where they'd fit in and be appreciated.

Er...

OK, given how Teyla gets treated, maybe appreciated isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. ;) It'd have been a good way to make Teyla more central, would have allowed her to show off her wacky leadership skills and it would have given the Athosians an actual purpose beyond birthing Teyla. Then we might actually have gotten to know Kanaan and thus understood and felt her loss more keenly.

GoSpikey
February 23rd, 2008, 04:34 PM
If it's turns out that the child has red hair, we see who has the last laugh :P ;)

*Tries to think of someone on Atlantis with red hair...*

Teyla had it in the beginning...

Maybe Todd bleaches his. :P


Shallow person! ;)
I totally understand what you mean, but they have a thing in common. They both have wraith DNA in them, thus makies them a match made in heaven...

I have to agree, I think. I'd much prefer Michael over Kanaan. Plus, Michael definitely understands Wraith DNA... :P :P :P

I wonder how they're gonna get the people back the way they were. Wraith retrovirus?

GoSpikey
February 23rd, 2008, 04:42 PM
I'd have thought Teyla would have mentioned it a lot sooner if others in her village were wraith detectors, but maybe she made an offhand comment along the way and I never picked up on it. Or forgot. :D

I wonder what Michael did to him. And did he do it to ALL the villagers or just the ones with wraithy senses?

It's what the season 1 episode "The Gift" is all about (ep 1x20). Teyla talks about it, because she's having nightmares about her being a Wraith.

She said that there's some people in her village who can sense the Wraith. Some have a strong gift, others have it in a weak form. She herself has always been among the first ones to feel the Wraith Darts coming. That's why they turned to her for leadership.

Later on, she follows the feeling she gets when a Dart is approaching, straight into a Wraith Hive Ship to see if she can figure out what their plan is to invade Atlantis.

I rewatched this ep, together with Poisoning the Well so I could better follow The Kindred. Turned out to be a very good choice. :D

GoSpikey
February 23rd, 2008, 04:58 PM
then a more in-depth study could have been done into the hows and whys of the "outcasts" abilities as well as giving them a place where they'd fit in and be appreciated.

Er...

OK, given how Teyla gets treated, maybe appreciated isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. ;) It'd have been a good way to make Teyla more central, would have allowed her to show off her wacky leadership skills and it would have given the Athosians an actual purpose beyond birthing Teyla. Then we might actually have gotten to know Kanaan and thus understood and felt her loss more keenly.

Again, "The Gift". Teyla had her DNA checked out, and Dr. Beckett said that at first glance there was nothing wrong with it. It looked very human, and Wraith DNA looks totally different. So she couldn't be that. Then he looked more closely at individual pieces, or whatever, and even more deeper than that. That's when he saw that she possessed a little bit of Wraith DNA. It was kind of a confirmation on what she must have known on a level, but it still wasn't easy to find that out.

Later she goes to visit the village elder Charin, and asks her if she knows where she got it from. Charin explains that there was some talk about an experiment that was done on some people. It ends up with Teyla having a gate address to some secret laboratory where they find a memory stick like Wraith device, which Elisabeth then translates. It appeared that some 5 generations ago, a lone Wraith was experimenting with inserting Wraith DNA into humans, to adapt something about the feeding process, and all of this nicely behind the backs of the other Wraith (he wasn't allowed to do the research.) So he would cull people, change them, and then just put them back on the planet where he took them (I think it was one planet, not multiple). After some time it turned out to have been a very stupid idea, as with the slight insertion of Wraith DNA into a human, the human gets access to the telepathy network of the Wraith. Big mistake. Now, most of the people went insane, or turned into a murderer, because they couldn't shut out the voices. The scientist at first left it at this, because he thought the 'gift' would go away when interbreeding with normal humans. But it didn't. After the altered people were hunted down by the common ones, a lot of them slaughtered, some of them austricized, the Wraith took down all the humans on the planet (must have noticed the gift wasn't going anywhere). So basically the ones who got away are now ancestors of Athosians, the gift doesn't go away, but what they did learn in those generations was a kind of shielding from the network. They no longer go insane cos of the voices.

Teyla didn't even know until this ep that she could hear their voices.

Was this episode in-depth enough for you? About all we didn't get was the scientist's name... ;)

Some guess it's Todd. Maybe some even think of Michael, although he didn't know she was a hybrid...

GoSpikey
February 23rd, 2008, 05:00 PM
Shallow person! ;)
I totally understand what you mean, but they have a thing in common. They both have wraith DNA in them, thus makies them a match made in heaven...

Grrr, should really go to bed (but that's when the silliness comes out of me):

Yo, Teyla, you have Wraith DNA, I have Wraith DNA, so let's make even more Wraith DNA together. :P

Now Mikey and Teyla, that's a match made in heaven... And maybe hell, too. :D

cabouse18
February 23rd, 2008, 05:41 PM
Grrr, should really go to bed (but that's when the silliness comes out of me):

Yo, Teyla, you have Wraith DNA, I have Wraith DNA, so let's make even more Wraith DNA together. :P

Now Mikey and Teyla, that's a match made in heaven... And maybe hell, too. :D

It is definately trouble....that much I know for sure ;) If the only thing that brought her and Kanan together was their similar wraith gene; then that seems a little weak to me but then again the guy is just a frickin plot device....so I can't say that I am all sooo surprised.

melfan
February 24th, 2008, 04:08 AM
*Tries to think of someone on Atlantis with red hair...*

Teyla had it in the beginning...

Maybe Todd bleaches his. :P

Todd with red hair!! :eek:
Or wait a minute! That would totally rock! :D ;)
Todd is the only wraith with red hair,but bleeched it because the other wraith made fun of him :cool:


I have to agree, I think. I'd much prefer Michael over Kanaan. Plus, Michael definitely understands Wraith DNA... :P :P :P

I wonder how they're gonna get the people back the way they were. Wraith retrovirus?

It's a tie between Kanaan and Michael, but Michael has the upperhand
I guess they have to use the antidote they used on Sheppard in Conversion

YutheGreat
February 24th, 2008, 04:24 AM
Michael's plans for Teyla's baby raises a question: When did Michael turn Kanaan not turn him into a hybrid but turn him to serve his cause. It is possible that Michael turned him before he took the Athosians because Teyla was 2 months preganant before the Athosians were taken.

Meaning Michael turned Kanaan long before kidnapping the Athosians. It is possible Kanaan is the reason Michael found the Athosians.

Michael would use his mind powers to look for Teyla with her Wraith DNA but found Kanaan and the Athosians instead. He influence Kaanan to impregnate Teyla with his child and to help him kidnap the Athosians, unwillingly or willingly. just a theory.

rien
February 24th, 2008, 05:33 AM
[QUOTE=GoSpikey;7786385]
It appeared that some 5 generations ago, a lone Wraith was experimenting with inserting Wraith DNA into humans, to adapt something about the feeding process, and all of this nicely behind the backs of the other Wraith (he wasn't allowed to do the research.) So he would cull people, change them, and then just put them back on the planet where he took them (I think it was one planet, not multiple). After some time it turned out to have been a very stupid idea, as with the slight insertion of Wraith DNA into a human, the human gets access to the telepathy network of the Wraith. Big mistake. Now, most of the people went insane, or turned into a murderer, because they couldn't shut out the voices. The scientist at first left it at this, because he thought the 'gift' would go away when interbreeding with normal humans. But it didn't. After the altered people were hunted down by the common ones, a lot of them slaughtered, some of them austricized, the Wraith took down all the humans on the planet (must have noticed the gift wasn't going anywhere). So basically the ones who got away are now ancestors of Athosians, the gift doesn't go away, but what they did learn in those generations was a kind of shielding from the network. They no longer go insane cos of the voices.

Teyla didn't even know until this ep that she could hear their voices.

]

hate to disagree but the wraith scientist was right about the telepathy/gift being watered down by breeding with normal humans. he was himself hunted down by his fellow wraith after they discovered his research but by then he had already released his experiments. his fellow wraith then culled the whole planet to destroy any of his surviving experiments but a few were able to escape thru the gate.
they didnt learn how to shield themselves from the network they just lost the ability to connect to the wraith network without concious thought/effort cause the gift got watered down thru the suceeding generations. no doubt those posessing a stronger gift like teyla have more than one ancestor with wraith DNA and probably never occured to them to try and hear the voices or that it was possible.
takes great concentration from teyla for her to connect but wraith can multitask whilst being connected

okay im gonna shut up now before i completely ramble off

GoSpikey
February 24th, 2008, 06:06 AM
hate to disagree but the wraith scientist was right about the telepathy/gift being watered down by breeding with normal humans. he was himself hunted down by his fellow wraith after they discovered his research but by then he had already released his experiments. his fellow wraith then culled the whole planet to destroy any of his surviving experiments but a few were able to escape thru the gate.
they didnt learn how to shield themselves from the network they just lost the ability to connect to the wraith network without concious thought/effort cause the gift got watered down thru the suceeding generations. no doubt those posessing a stronger gift like teyla have more than one ancestor with wraith DNA and probably never occured to them to try and hear the voices or that it was possible.
takes great concentration from teyla for her to connect but wraith can multitask whilst being connected

okay im gonna shut up now before i completely ramble off

I'm going to disagree on this because Elizabeth clearly stated he didn't get found out, I think she either said that he cleaned up himself, or the Wraith did it for him.

I really should watch it again, and not at the dead of night. :P

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 03:40 PM
I fear, poor Conan O'Brien wont survive Kindred Part II.

=(

There ends a lover's tale.

NEXT.

GoSpikey
February 24th, 2008, 03:45 PM
I fear, poor Conan O'Brien wont survive Kindred Part II.

=(

There ends a lover's tale.

NEXT.

*Shoves Michael to the front*

There. You have one. They should at least give it their best before they reverse time... :P

garhkal
February 24th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Michael's plans for Teyla's baby raises a question: When did Michael turn Kanaan not turn him into a hybrid but turn him to serve his cause. It is possible that Michael turned him before he took the Athosians because Teyla was 2 months preganant before the Athosians were taken.

Meaning Michael turned Kanaan long before kidnapping the Athosians. It is possible Kanaan is the reason Michael found the Athosians.

Michael would use his mind powers to look for Teyla with her Wraith DNA but found Kanaan and the Athosians instead. He influence Kaanan to impregnate Teyla with his child and to help him kidnap the Athosians, unwillingly or willingly. just a theory.

That is a very good point. WE never heard of Kanaan before, well iirc, and michael seemed to know a lot more than most other wraiths do about the Athosians.. Perhaps he was a wraith worshiper..

GoSpikey
February 24th, 2008, 04:50 PM
That is a very good point. WE never heard of Kanaan before, well iirc, and michael seemed to know a lot more than most other wraiths do about the Athosians.. Perhaps he was a wraith worshiper..

Kanaan was in another ep before, I think, but don't ask me which one.

Geral
February 24th, 2008, 05:14 PM
I hate the pipsqueak Kanaan. I was glad he was turned into a hybrid and is brainwashed or something. Maybe he'll die and then Teyla goes to Sheppard...

Come on, I was disappointed to find out he was the father. It's got to happen eventually.

ShadowMaat
February 24th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Well, I for one have no objection to Kanaan as a suitor for Teyla. Jeez, we barely know him, how can we possibly object?

Now, if it turns out he's been in Michael's pocket all along and only impregnated Teyla on his orders, then that might be grounds for not liking him, but if the two genuinely love each other, I choose to be happy for them. While it lasts. ;)

melfan
February 25th, 2008, 04:05 AM
Well, I for one have no objection to Kanaan as a suitor for Teyla. Jeez, we barely know him, how can we possibly object?

Now, if it turns out he's been in Michael's pocket all along and only impregnated Teyla on his orders, then that might be grounds for not liking him, but if the two genuinely love each other, I choose to be happy for them. While it lasts. ;)

I agree with you, and I hope to higher power that they genuinely like each other.

GoSpikey
February 25th, 2008, 04:25 AM
I agree with you, and I hope to higher power that they genuinely like each other.

But, but... Michael genuinely likes her too, this time!

He's not slighty bipolar, is he?

melfan
February 25th, 2008, 01:28 PM
But, but... Michael genuinely likes her too, this time!

He's not slighty bipolar, is he?

Bipolar? Never! :P

Just a tad crazy ;)

And he has this, love her, love her not complex going on.
If she escapes, and next time they meet, he will try to kill her
and the next he loves and will do anything to has her by his side!
Are we seeing a pattern?

GoSpikey
February 25th, 2008, 01:39 PM
Bipolar? Never! :P

Just a tad crazy ;)

And he has this, love her, love her not complex going on.
If she escapes, and next time they meet, he will try to kill her
and the next he loves and will do anything to has her by his side!
Are we seeing a pattern?

Poor Teyla, her whole life is dedicated to keeping her family safe from the Wraith, now one shows up and wants to elope with her... :P

Or better:

She does everything to keep them safe, and this one comes in, takes them all, makes them Half-Wraith Hybrids, and throws them straight in battle. :cool:

LiquidSky
February 25th, 2008, 08:23 PM
All I can say when I just watched The Kindred PT1.and Kanaan was in Telya's visions I figured it was Michael b/c they do have some kind of connection with her Wraith DNA. About Kanaan, his is just Micheal's puppet to lure Telya to for his experiments.;)


LS

pigletpie
February 25th, 2008, 11:26 PM
Kanaan is the spelling my closed captioning gave. The name nagged at me for a while- not 'cos of the Canaan thing which I caught and dismissed, but because I could have sworn there was a Kanan in SG-1 and sure enough, there was. Minus the extra a. The actor looked really familiar, too. I kept wanting to make him a Jaffa or Goa'uld. Teal'c's friend, maybe. I'm sure it's someone else entirely, but it keeps bothering me. *shrug* Oh well.

Is this the first time we've seen him? Seems a nice enough sort although the fact that he has Wraith genes too seemed awfully convenient. It also had me wondering if they were related. ;) I'd have thought Teyla would have mentioned it a lot sooner if others in her village were wraith detectors, but maybe she made an offhand comment along the way and I never picked up on it. Or forgot. :D

I wonder what Michael did to him. And did he do it to ALL the villagers or just the ones with wraithy senses?

EDIT: Kanaan is how Gateworld is spelling it, too, and looking at pics of him I'm pretty positive he isn't Teal'c's Jaffa buddy, but he still looks kinda familiar.

but it's not teal'c's "buddy" kanan is the tok'ra that saved jack's life in "frozen" and then left him when they were capured by ba'al in "abbys" botom line: kanan is a tok'ra :mckayanime18:^_^

melfan
February 26th, 2008, 07:54 AM
Poor Teyla, her whole life is dedicated to keeping her family safe from the Wraith, now one shows up and wants to elope with her... :P

Or better:

She does everything to keep them safe, and this one comes in, takes them all, makes them Half-Wraith Hybrids, and throws them straight in battle. :cool:

:lol: :indeed:

YutheGreat
February 26th, 2008, 08:26 AM
If Kanaan was for real. I mean that he really loves her why should I object. I mean I will be dissappointed she did not end up with John but Its John's fault.

John and Teyla aren't Jack and Sam. There are a lot of similarities between these two couples. I admit but Teyla is not US military. Of course he might be afraid his judgment might be impaired. Duty over love I guess is what John is for.

Michael may have at one point have been angry at Teyla during his period of Identity Crisis because he blamed her for his mutation. Now he knows who he is he is a Hybrid as is Teyla. As Sam said it brought you together. Admittedly, she was refering to Teyla and Kanaan when she said it but it is something to consider.

Oh a thought occured maybe the fact that he is now a kind god to his new race have played a factor. He may have a kind of gratitude for Teyla for making him this deity.

I posted an idea for story arc in the Season 5 thread that may deal with this Triangle of John-Teyla-Michael.

melfan
February 26th, 2008, 11:36 AM
If Kanaan was for real. I mean that he really loves her why should I object. I mean I will be dissappointed she did not end up with John but Its John's fault.

John and Teyla aren't Jack and Sam. There are a lot of similarities between these two couples. I admit but Teyla is not US military. Of course he might be afraid his judgment might be impaired. Duty over love I guess is what John is for.

Michael may have at one point have been angry at Teyla during his period of Identity Crisis because he blamed her for his mutation. Now he knows who he is he is a Hybrid as is Teyla. As Sam said it brought you together. Admittedly, she was refering to Teyla and Kanaan when she said it but it is something to consider.

Oh a thought occured maybe the fact that he is now a kind god to his new race have played a factor. He may have a kind of gratitude for Teyla for making him this deity.

I posted an idea for story arc in the Season 5 thread that may deal with this Triangle of John-Teyla-Michael.

When did it turn in to a John-Teyla-Michael triangel??
Personely I can't see Teyla with Michael, it's somehow wrong.
I can't picture her with John, never have really, and with Kanaan being introduced as the father of her child, even less

esheppard
February 26th, 2008, 01:02 PM
I haven't seen his name spelled anywhere and the last spelling I've seen is Kanaan, so I just going with that
So far that is the only spelling I've seen of his name aswell.
As far as him looking more human, I agree.
From what I heard from the show, he has plans for Teyla's baby. But I might be jumping to conclusions.

shydancer7
February 26th, 2008, 08:44 PM
If anyone is interested, I looked up the symbol on Kanaan's necklace. This is what I found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion

ShadowMaat
February 26th, 2008, 09:34 PM
If anyone is interested, I looked up the symbol on Kanaan's necklace. This is what I found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion

Hmm... Taken as the symbol of Manannán mac Lir it has interesting connotations.


In Celtic mythology, Manannán mac Lir is the god of the sea. He is often seen as a psychopomp, and considered to have strong connections to the Otherworld islands of the dead, as well as to weather and the mists between the worlds.


In Jungian psychology, the psychopomp is a mediator between the unconscious and conscious realms. It is symbolically personified in dreams as a wise man (or woman), or sometimes as a helpful animal.

Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? Did TPTB know about this and deliberately choose this symbol? And if so, how come all of their research isn't this cool and accurate? ;) Or did they just pick a pretty symbol they'd seen around (I've certainly seen it) and it just happened to click in the right place? :P

YutheGreat
February 27th, 2008, 06:22 AM
melfan When did it turn in to a John-Teyla-Michael triangel??

I mean with regards to our discussion. I mean we have ships:
John Teyla
Teyla Kanaan

However Kanaan seems to have been controlled by Michael the time that Kanaan and her were together. Since it seems that the baby is his.

cabouse18
February 27th, 2008, 02:43 PM
melfan When did it turn in to a John-Teyla-Michael triangel??

I mean with regards to our discussion. I mean we have ships:
John Teyla
Teyla Kanaan

However Kanaan seems to have been controlled by Michael the time that Kanaan and her were together. Since it seems that the baby is his.

I too thought that. But after rewatching the ep a couple of times...I am not too sure. The baby is Kanan's but whether or not Michael knew about it before the visions in the ep is anyone's guess....I personally don't think he did.

That said, I think it would be more intersting if the kid was Michael's :D

ShadowMaat
February 27th, 2008, 03:03 PM
I too thought that. But after rewatching the ep a couple of times...I am not too sure. The baby is Kanan's but whether or not Michael knew about it before the visions in the ep is anyone's guess....I personally don't think he did.
I wish I could believe that. Unfortunately I think TPTB are probably leaning towards making Kanaan evil; it makes it easier to kill him off. Killing him off is, of course, more convenient than keeping him around and actually having to write for him and/or admit he exists, which at the very least would require giving Teyla lines. And if Teyla's given lines, it takes time away from Shep and McKay.

Of course, the other possible alternative isn't much better: turn Kanaan into another Sha're; "under the influence" of the bad guys and taken away to parts unknown with Teyla desperately trying to find and rescue her poor lost love, all the while not knowing if he can even be saved/cured once she finds him. :rolleyes:

GoSpikey
February 27th, 2008, 03:15 PM
I too thought that. But after rewatching the ep a couple of times...I am not too sure. The baby is Kanan's but whether or not Michael knew about it before the visions in the ep is anyone's guess....I personally don't think he did.

That said, I think it would be more intersting if the kid was Michael's :D

And remember my third theory. Michael = scientist = kinda dad to all of the Wraitified Athosians, and Teyla getting one is just a bonus.

cabouse18
February 27th, 2008, 03:27 PM
I wish I could believe that. Unfortunately I think TPTB are probably leaning towards making Kanaan evil; it makes it easier to kill him off. Killing him off is, of course, more convenient than keeping him around and actually having to write for him and/or admit he exists, which at the very least would require giving Teyla lines. And if Teyla's given lines, it takes time away from Shep and McKay.

Of course, the other possible alternative isn't much better: turn Kanaan into another Sha're; "under the influence" of the bad guys and taken away to parts unknown with Teyla desperately trying to find and rescue her poor lost love, all the while not knowing if he can even be saved/cured once she finds him. :rolleyes:

They are going to kill him off....I think I said this somewhere else and if I said it here already I apologize but Kanan is nothing more than a plot device. Wikipedia describes a plot device as:


A plot device is an element introduced into a story solely to advance or resolve the plot of the story. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author; it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief.

I think we can all agree that Kanan and this particular story line lies in the bold words of the definition;)

GoSpikey
February 27th, 2008, 03:37 PM
Why can't people stop compairing this show to SG-1? It's 2 different shows.

cabouse18
February 27th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Why can't people stop compairing this show to SG-1? It's 2 different shows.

Yup....just b/c the characters cross over from time to time doesn't mean the shows have much of anything else in common! There is a reason they call it a SPIN-OFF!! It is supposed to be spun off from the original show/premise but different in the sense that it can stand alone.

GoSpikey
February 27th, 2008, 04:02 PM
That said, I think it would be more intersting if the kid was Michael's :D

Just think of the trauma it would be for Teyla to find out she's been brainwashed and violated by a Wraith, like that! :P

ShadowMaat
February 27th, 2008, 04:47 PM
Why can't people stop compairing this show to SG-1? It's 2 different shows.

I'll stop once TPTB start treating them like two separate shows. ;)

cabouse18
February 27th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Just think of the trauma it would be for Teyla to find out she's been brainwashed and violated by a Wraith, like that! :P

Yeah on second thought....EEEEEEEWWWWWWWW:S

YutheGreat
February 27th, 2008, 06:03 PM
I think the shock for this Trauma has begun to Set In already don't you?
She saw and heard Kanaan in that manner. Knowing that all the other Athosians are Hybrids. The baby is the last hope she has left and Michael has already hinted to that fact he has somehow fathered. Of course if he confirms it that may be another story all together.

jelgate
February 27th, 2008, 09:53 PM
Why can't people stop compairing this show to SG-1? It's 2 different shows.

I can't answer without receiving an infraction.

Fenrir Foxz
February 27th, 2008, 09:57 PM
I can't answer without receiving an infraction.

:lol:

That bad huh? :P

cabouse18
February 28th, 2008, 02:40 PM
I can't answer without receiving an infraction.

PM me with those thoughts....I am dying to hear them ;)

melfan
February 29th, 2008, 07:04 AM
melfan When did it turn in to a John-Teyla-Michael triangel??

I mean with regards to our discussion. I mean we have ships:
John Teyla
Teyla Kanaan

However Kanaan seems to have been controlled by Michael the time that Kanaan and her were together. Since it seems that the baby is his.

Just had a tought, A JOhn/Teyla/Michael triangle could work!
Michael is somewhat of a hybrid now, Teyla has wraith DNA and John as almost been turned into a hybrid. They are a match made in heaven! :D :P

GoSpikey
February 29th, 2008, 09:26 AM
Just had a tought, A JOhn/Teyla/Michael triangle could work!
Michael is somewhat of a hybrid now, Teyla has wraith DNA and John as almost been turned into a hybrid. They are a match made in heaven! :D :P

*Sigh*

Bit obsessive about that, aren't ya? :D

Michael/Teyla, just the two of them, would be greater. :P

ShadowMaat
February 29th, 2008, 10:18 AM
Isn't there a ship thread for this stuff?

So Kanaan was always intended to die? Is that fact or speculation? If true, it seems like another example of bad writing to me. You need to make Character A pregnant so you create Expendable Character B to explain how while "wasting" as little time as possible on it and getting rid of Expendable Character B as soon as you can. What a waste of potential.

melfan
February 29th, 2008, 11:53 AM
*Sigh*

Bit obsessive about that, aren't ya? :D

Michael/Teyla, just the two of them, would be greater. :P

Who, me?

*looks innocent* :D

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Isn't there a ship thread for this stuff?

So Kanaan was always intended to die? Is that fact or speculation? If true, it seems like another example of bad writing to me. You need to make Character A pregnant so you create Expendable Character B to explain how while "wasting" as little time as possible on it and getting rid of Expendable Character B as soon as you can. What a waste of potential.

Yes; Not only typical but the epitomey of a PLOT DEVICE as well!!!

Kanan's actual survival is unknown but based on how these things usually go...the dude is as good as toast.

PG15
February 29th, 2008, 04:36 PM
What exactly is a plot device, anyway? Isn't it just something that moves the plot forward? Why is that a bad thing?

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 04:55 PM
What exactly is a plot device, anyway? Isn't it just something that moves the plot forward? Why is that a bad thing?

A plot device as described by Wikipedia is:


A plot device is an element introduced into a story solely to advance or resolve the plot of the story. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author; it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief.

It is something that moves the plot forward but when it does badly...it comes across badly.

ShadowMaat
February 29th, 2008, 05:09 PM
There's nothing wrong with plot devices per se, and yes, it could be said that EVERYTHING is a plot device, but I think the issue is more with how they get used. Do they have a deeper meaning beyond as a way to get from Point A to Point B? Is there any background from which it is drawn? Does it fit into the context of what we already know about the plot/characters? Does it deepen our understanding of those plots/characters? Has it ever been seen/used/referenced before? Will it ever be seen/used/referenced again?

Kanaan, for instance, could have been seeded into the background of the show as part of a continuing plot. Not only is he the love interest of a lead character, but he also shares some traits with her... traits which have been explored in multiple episodes and are considered to be fairly important.

I know I mock about offscreen storytelling, but this is a case where it might have worked; just a few words here and there about him, spread through a couple of seasons with a couple of appearances to solidify the details and Kanaan could have been a fully-realized character instead of a hollow construct.

I guess I just dislike it when things happen (or characters are created) just because TPTB need it to be that way rather than because its a logical progression. TPTB needed a father for Teyla's baby and thus Kanaan was created. Whole cloth. Practically from thin air. Heck, if we'd at least had some background on the Athosians as a people and seen more of their world it might have helped put the situation into context, but no, we got none of that.

I can understand the need to occasionally fill a gap with whatever is handy, but it seems to happen far too often where Stargate is concerned. Kanaan is merely the latest example.

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 05:20 PM
There's nothing wrong with plot devices per se, and yes, it could be said that EVERYTHING is a plot device, but I think the issue is more with how they get used. Do they have a deeper meaning beyond as a way to get from Point A to Point B? Is there any background from which it is drawn? Does it fit into the context of what we already know about the plot/characters? Does it deepen our understanding of those plots/characters? Has it ever been seen/used/referenced before? Will it ever be seen/used/referenced again?

Kanaan, for instance, could have been seeded into the background of the show as part of a continuing plot. Not only is he the love interest of a lead character, but he also shares some traits with her... traits which have been explored in multiple episodes and are considered to be fairly important.

I know I mock about offscreen storytelling, but this is a case where it might have worked; just a few words here and there about him, spread through a couple of seasons with a couple of appearances to solidify the details and Kanaan could have been a fully-realized character instead of a hollow construct.
I guess I just dislike it when things happen (or characters are created) just because TPTB need it to be that way rather than because its a logical progression. TPTB needed a father for Teyla's baby and thus Kanaan was created. Whole cloth. Practically from thin air. Heck, if we'd at least had some background on the Athosians as a people and seen more of their world it might have helped put the situation into context, but no, we got none of that.

I can understand the need to occasionally fill a gap with whatever is handy, but it seems to happen far too often where Stargate is concerned. Kanaan is merely the latest example.

You said it well Grasshopper :D

Rachel's pregnancy was a last minute thing but there plenty of eps in between the beginning of the season and when we (the audience) found she was pregnant (ala Missing). Somehwere all they had to do was drop Kanan's name once or twice in conversation with Ronon b/c he already had his suspicions considering she apparently always talked about him (which IMO is a plot hole, not plot device). TPTB had ample opportunity and time to come up with something better thought out than just pulling/creating a man/character out of thin air for the sake of explaining to us what has become a major storlyine for this season. Kanan is not only the latest example of this; he is the worst.

I take it back...it is not a plot hole; it is a BLACK HOLE!

PG15
February 29th, 2008, 05:23 PM
No, that's not a plothole. A plothole is an inconsistency that can't be easily explained (or at least that's how I was taught).

ShadowMaat
February 29th, 2008, 05:27 PM
It isn't a plot hole, it's just lazy writing. ;)

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 05:31 PM
It isn't a plot hole, it's just lazy writing. ;)

Which in turn get sucked into a black hole and turns into the current lazy writing;)

ShadowMaat
February 29th, 2008, 05:33 PM
BTW, when the inconsistencies are consistent can you still call them inconsistencies? :P Or maybe they're just persistent inconsistencies...

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 05:36 PM
BTW, when the inconsistencies are consistent can you still call them inconsistencies? :P Or maybe they're just persistent inconsistencies...

and at which point do you stop calling them inconsistencies? and stop noticing them? ;)

Jumper_One
February 29th, 2008, 05:43 PM
PLOTHOLE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plothole) ;)

A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome.
**snip**

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 05:46 PM
PLOTHOLE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plothole) ;)

Can we just all agree that this show tends to defy all logic?;) jk

jelgate
February 29th, 2008, 06:22 PM
PLOTHOLE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plothole) ;)

It drives me crazy that every unexplained action in an episode is called a plothole by some fans.

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 06:23 PM
It drives me crazy that every unexplained action in an episode is called a plothole by some fans.

what would you call it?

PG15
February 29th, 2008, 06:25 PM
An "unexplained action", perhaps? ;)

GoSpikey
March 2nd, 2008, 05:14 AM
An "unexplained action", perhaps? ;)

:lol:

melfan
March 2nd, 2008, 06:09 AM
:lol:

or that the plot has jumped into a paralell universe and got lost somewhere
This need investigating :lol:

GoSpikey
March 2nd, 2008, 03:17 PM
or that the plot has jumped into a paralell universe and got lost somewhere
This need investigating :lol:

Yet another spin-off. :lol:

Think they'll visit the Ori/Ida galaxies in Universe, or whatever it's gonna be called?

cabouse18
March 2nd, 2008, 05:27 PM
Yet another spin-off. :lol:

Think they'll visit the Ori/Ida galaxies in Universe, or whatever it's gonna be called?

Oh God :rolleyes: ;)

escyos
April 29th, 2010, 11:39 PM
if you watch 'suspiscion' from season 1, when the Athosians are walkign towards to gate, theres a guy who looks and awful lot like Kanaan