PDA

View Full Version : Daudales is gettin' slow...



Spacejumper76
February 22nd, 2008, 08:38 PM
I understand that Caldwell wasn't supposed to destroy it, but honestly, those asgard beams should have been easily able to fry Michael's engines. It's inexcusible!! They cut through Aurora-class ships easier than that!!!

Myles
February 22nd, 2008, 08:39 PM
I understand that Caldwell wasn't supposed to destroy it, but honestly, those asgard beams should have been easily able to fry Michael's engines. It's inexcusible!! They cut through Aurora-class ships easier than that!!!

Wraith have real thick armor, they were fighting for all of a minute and it took 'heavy' damage. I thought it was fine.

s09119
February 22nd, 2008, 08:40 PM
I understand that Caldwell wasn't supposed to destroy it, but honestly, those asgard beams should have been easily able to fry Michael's engines. It's inexcusible!! They cut through Aurora-class ships easier than that!!!

But it's not as if the beams hit and were ineffective; they missed. You forget, the beams are a directional weapon; once you fire, if your target moves you're going to miss. The cruiser was just agile enough to avoid the beams, nothing wrong with that. It's actually good to see that the "almighty Asgard beam" can't KO everything in one try.

EDIT: Besides, all we ever saw/heard fire at the cruiser prior to that last shot were the rail guns; presumably, the beams were never used until we actually saw them.

Aurora24
February 22nd, 2008, 08:41 PM
They need to send whoever was in charge of shooting back to earth till he learns how to actually hit things and replace him with some who can actually hit a target. I suppose we should be grateful that the guy shooting tonight wasn't the one in charge when they launched the attack on the Replicator planet.

reddevil18
February 22nd, 2008, 08:42 PM
Wraith have real thick armor, they were fighting for all of a minute and it took 'heavy' damage. I thought it was fine.
Pleaaaaaaaase...:rolleyes: They were using rail guns up until the end...It was a plot contrivance. You see a Wraith ship that opens fire, you use the beam weapons. Simple as that. I wish they could have found another way of dealing with the situation...

Myles
February 22nd, 2008, 08:44 PM
Pleaaaaaaaase...:rolleyes: They were using rail guns up until the end...It was a plot contrivance. You see a Wraith ship that opens fire, you use the beam weapons. Simple as that. I wish they could have found another way of dealing with the situation...

Since they didn't show anything, who knows. But in reality, yes, the plot dictated the ship couldn't be blown to hell.

reddevil18
February 22nd, 2008, 08:44 PM
But it's not as if the beams hit and were ineffective; they missed. You forget, the beams are a directional weapon; once you fire, if your target moves you're going to miss. The cruiser was just agile enough to avoid the beams, nothing wrong with that. It's actually good to see that the "almighty Asgard beam" can't KO everything in one try.

EDIT: Besides, all we ever saw/heard fire at the cruiser prior to that last shot were the rail guns; presumably, the beams were never used until we actually saw them.Yes, that's fine and well, but the Daedalus is even more maneuvrable. Realistically, the cruiser should've been blown to pieces. They should have used the beam weapons from the get go. It was just something silly, to suit the plot.

s09119
February 22nd, 2008, 08:45 PM
Yes, that's fine and well, but the Daedalus is even more maneuvrable. Realistically, the cruiser should've been blown to pieces. They should have used the beam weapons from the get go. It was just something silly, to suit the plot.

True, but my point still stands about the beams themselves; if your target is slow or big, you can hit it. But if it's small and fast, the beams are going to be pretty mich useless.

reddevil18
February 22nd, 2008, 08:49 PM
True, but my point still stands about the beams themselves; if your target is slow or big, you can hit it. But if it's small and fast, the beams are going to be pretty mich useless.

I agree, but if the plot hadn't required for the ship to survive, the Daedalus wouldn't have been moving in slow motion. We've seen that it's extremely maneuvrable, as it's a relatively small ship...Like I said, they did it to suit the situation. Which is fine, but it gets annoying when, in other episodes, again, to suit the situation, you may see it zipping around, taking out ship after ship with just 2-3 shots...

JSPuddlejumper
February 22nd, 2008, 09:00 PM
LOL. Complete plot device (brings back memories of BAMSR'd), but is even much worse in this case.

Beams slow? In all sci-fi, not SGA bull, beam weapons travel at or near speed of light!

Beams will hit anything if your aiming is on.

1 beam hit = destroyed cruiser, it would definitely cause massive damage leading to its destruction, or dissect a cruiser if it hit sideways (which happened to an Aurora in BAMSR'd, Auroras are far larger than a Cruiser).

So obviously, due to plot device, the Daedalus has been firing maybe 1 rail gun at the cruiser, in very short burst during this time.

Keep in mind that railguns have been upgraded, CGI different, a lot of damage to unshielded Auroras. So if they opened up with all their railguns=dead Cruiser as well.

Obviously, the Daedalus was protecting the Cruiser. Doh. The little baby crusier, here is some Mama's milk

Spacejumper76
February 22nd, 2008, 09:04 PM
That's true, but it erks me, too! It cut through GOD KNOWS HOW MANY AURORAS IN BAMSR!!!! And the Travelers' aurora was able to take out that cruiser easily (once the weapons were up)! Curse you plot line! CURSSSSE YOUUUUUU!

s09119
February 22nd, 2008, 09:05 PM
LOL. Complete plot device (brings back memories of BAMSR'd), but is even much worse in this case.

Beams slow? In all sci-fi, not SGA bull, beam weapons travel at or near speed of light!

Beams will hit anything if your aiming is on.

1 beam hit = destroyed cruiser, it would definitely cause massive damage leading to its destruction, or dissect a cruiser if it hit sideways (which happened to an Aurora in BAMSR'd, Auroras are far larger than a Cruiser).

So obviously, due to plot device, the Daedalus has been firing maybe 1 rail gun at the cruiser, in very short burst during this time.

Keep in mind that railguns have been upgraded, CGI different, a lot of damage to unshielded Auroras. So if they opened up with all their railguns=dead Cruiser as well.

Obviously, the Daedalus was protecting the Cruiser. Doh. The little baby crusier, here is some Mama's milk

No, lasers travel at lightspeed. Beam weapons (being plasma) travel much, much slower. There's nothing wrong with the speed of the beams.

reddevil18
February 22nd, 2008, 09:11 PM
No, lasers travel at lightspeed. Beam weapons (being plasma) travel much, much slower. There's nothing wrong with the speed of the beams.
Indeed. The speed of the beam has been consistent. It's the way the Daedalus moved so slowly and only used rail guns at first that was annoying...But I guess we can blame the chick.
"Sorry, sir..."
"Well, screw you! Take her to the brig!"

pbutter
February 22nd, 2008, 09:22 PM
They did heavy damage to the cruiser with just the railgun's alone, and i dont' think the Asgard beam's would miss, it's just that they were trying to disable the ship, not destroy it. The chick did say "i think so" when caldwell asked her if she could disable it, so she obviously was'nt 100% confident, besides the beam weapons are designed for 1 shot 1 kill, they were never meant to disable.

JSPuddlejumper
February 22nd, 2008, 09:24 PM
Speed of beam weapons are inconsisent, as inconsistent as the speed of the drones.

Examples: Asuran satellite beam weapon hitting the ocean from Orbit in roughly 1-2 seconds (near the speed of light).

Drone example: Drones reaching Annubis fleet in orbit a few seconds after being fired. Then a drone having trouble catching up to a dodging helicopter driven by John.

Hey, it is sci-fi. But don't be under the delusions about consistency.

reddevil18
February 22nd, 2008, 09:26 PM
Speed of beam weapons are inconsisent, as inconsistent as the speed of the drones.

Examples: Asuran satellite beam weapon hitting the ocean from Orbit in roughly 1-2 seconds (near the speed of light).

Drone example: Drones reaching Annubis fleet in orbit a few seconds after being fired. Then a drone having trouble catching up to a dodging helicopter driven by John.

Hey, it is sci-fi. But don't be under the delusions about consistency.
It's been consistent when it comes to the Asgard beam weapons. That drone was "controlled" by Carson, so it's not that unreasonable.

s09119
February 22nd, 2008, 09:27 PM
Speed of beam weapons are inconsisent, as inconsistent as the speed of the drones.

Examples: Asuran satellite beam weapon hitting the ocean from Orbit in roughly 1-2 seconds (near the speed of light).

Drone example: Drones reaching Annubis fleet in orbit a few seconds after being fired. Then a drone having trouble catching up to a dodging helicopter driven by John.

Hey, it is sci-fi. But don't be under the delusions about consistency.

Actually those drones took a good 30 seconds to reach oribt... and you can't comapre the speeds of two different plasma beams to one another; different things altogether. There is no inconsistency.

jelgate
February 22nd, 2008, 09:29 PM
Is it possible that the beams have to be charged before firing. When we attacked the Asurans planet we fired railguns first.

reddevil18
February 22nd, 2008, 09:32 PM
Is it possible that the beams have to be charged before firing. When we attacked the Asurans planet we fired railguns first.True. But I still say we blame the chick...:p

s09119
February 22nd, 2008, 09:34 PM
True. But I still say we blame the chick...:p

"OFF WITH HER HEAD!"

JSPuddlejumper
February 22nd, 2008, 09:37 PM
Lets take your 30 seconds to reach orbit. Imagine that speed! O'Neill's helicopter is doomed. Plot device.

Same goes for the varying rate of speed of beam weapons.

Only a matter of time before the Daedalus or another 304s fires from orbit at a planetary target, and you will see 2-3 second delay at most before it hits...Not 30-1 minute delay. Close to speed of
light speeds.

The beams need at most 1-2 seconds to charge. In the end, the show needs Kindred part II =)

reddevil18
February 22nd, 2008, 09:43 PM
Lets take your 30 seconds to reach orbit. Imagine that speed! O'Neill's helicopter is doomed. Plot device.

Same goes for the varying rate of speed of beam weapons.

Only a matter of time before the Daedalus or another 304s fires from orbit at a planetary target, and you will see 2-3 second delay at most before it hits...Not 30-1 minute delay. Close to speed of
light speeds.

The beams need at most 1-2 seconds to charge. In the end, the show needs Kindred part II =)
Well, the Asuran weapon didn't take 2 seconds to reach the planet. It was a sustained beam that kept going as the satellite was turning towards the planet...Again, you can't compare it to the Asgard beam.
As for the drone, like I said, Carson was controlling it...

Myles
February 22nd, 2008, 10:00 PM
Lets take your 30 seconds to reach orbit. Imagine that speed! O'Neill's helicopter is doomed. Plot device.

Same goes for the varying rate of speed of beam weapons.

Only a matter of time before the Daedalus or another 304s fires from orbit at a planetary target, and you will see 2-3 second delay at most before it hits...Not 30-1 minute delay. Close to speed of
light speeds.

The beams need at most 1-2 seconds to charge. In the end, the show needs Kindred part II =)


I don't think TBTP are going to show the dely to keep things consistent. They are producing television, even if it is sci fi. It takes as long as they deem neccesary for the scene at hand. That can be seconds or minutes.

suse
February 22nd, 2008, 10:01 PM
Lets take your 30 seconds to reach orbit. Imagine that speed! O'Neill's helicopter is doomed. Plot device.

Same goes for the varying rate of speed of beam weapons.

Only a matter of time before the Daedalus or another 304s fires from orbit at a planetary target, and you will see 2-3 second delay at most before it hits...Not 30-1 minute delay. Close to speed of
light speeds.

The beams need at most 1-2 seconds to charge. In the end, the show needs Kindred part II =)

Joe Straczynski ("The Great Maker" of Babylon 5) once said that ships move at the speed of plot. Not sure if that was a quote or original. Apparently so do the weapons.

suse

rarocks24
February 22nd, 2008, 10:29 PM
Pleaaaaaaaase...:rolleyes: They were using rail guns up until the end...It was a plot contrivance. You see a Wraith ship that opens fire, you use the beam weapons. Simple as that. I wish they could have found another way of dealing with the situation...

It was necessary to move the plot forward. Had they opened up with their uber-beam weapons, Michael and Teyla would be dead. And we know THAT isn't going to happen, so...

xenomorph1211
February 22nd, 2008, 11:07 PM
One thing that bothered me is that the Wraith cruiser seemed to do more damage to the Deddy's shields than anceint drones....(the ship shook more under Wraith fire than drones.)

pbutter
February 22nd, 2008, 11:26 PM
I would say that the wraith have very powerful weapon's similar to the ones the Asgard earlier (they are both blue bolts) had on their ship's, wraith ship's also have a faster rate of fire than Asgard ships.

garhkal
February 22nd, 2008, 11:28 PM
"OFF WITH HER HEAD!"

Na, just let her be first in line at the gate when the wraith come next time!!

Major_Griff
February 22nd, 2008, 11:49 PM
You're all forgetting that Teyla's hero shield and Connor Trineer's star power shield were both extended around the cruiser, there by rendering the Daedulus useless.

xenomorph1211
February 23rd, 2008, 12:08 AM
You're all forgetting that Teyla's hero shield and Connor Trineer's star power shield were both extended around the cruiser, there by rendering the Daedulus useless.

LOL! Nice one!

Detox
February 23rd, 2008, 01:49 AM
What?!

When they wanted to kill the damn thing, they used Railguns. But when they needed to keep it alive, they used the Asgard beam weapon?

I think Caldwell needs a new weapons officer.

Ouroboros
February 23rd, 2008, 03:21 AM
What?!

When they wanted to kill the damn thing, they used Railguns. But when they needed to keep it alive, they used the Asgard beam weapon?

I think Caldwell needs a new weapons officer.

Exactly. You can't explain it with "they were only using railguns" it's just too damn stupid.

"We're being attacked sir!"

"Dur return fire with only the ****tiest weapon we have! We'll be far more likely to die this way! Johnson get down to the hanger bays! Weapons officer, as soon as Johnson gets to the bays you will cease firing the railguns. At this point Johnson will begin to pelt the Wraith ship with stale muffins from the mess hall. If that doesn't get us all killed fast enough for my satisfaction I will then expect everyone to begin throwing their internal organs at the enemy vessel."

Just wait. With all the over the top wanktech they've given Earth now this won't be the last time we see bull**** like this. This is just the teaser preview.

peragrin
February 23rd, 2008, 04:53 AM
better question why didn't the daedulas scan the ship for Teyla's tracker the moment the ship arrived.

You are told that a particular place holds a special hostage, one that is important to you. You go there scan the place, and find out she isn't there, but you do a manual search anyways. A little while later a much slower ship than your arrives. My first orders would be to raise shields, and scan that ship for Teyla. Then bring weapons online and disable the vessel's hyperdrive, and sublight engines. You need prisioners, and Information.

Damn Plot shields.

The_Carpenter
February 23rd, 2008, 04:56 AM
Exactly. You can't explain it with "they were only using railguns" it's just too damn stupid.



Why would you assume that the Asgard beam weapons are ready to fire as soon as you hit the on button?

The energy must come from somewhere likely fed into a capacitor which would take time to charge up. In BAMSR the 304s knew they were about to head into a combat situation and so already had the weapons charged, whereas here they were caught by surprise.

The_Carpenter
February 23rd, 2008, 04:58 AM
better question why didn't the daedulas scan the ship for Teyla's tracker the moment the ship arrived.

You are told that a particular place holds a special hostage, one that is important to you. You go there scan the place, and find out she isn't there, but you do a manual search anyways. A little while later a much slower ship than your arrives. My first orders would be to raise shields, and scan that ship for Teyla. Then bring weapons online and disable the vessel's hyperdrive, and sublight engines. You need prisioners, and Information.

Damn Plot shields.

Likely Michael had a dampening field around Teylas cell, makes sense your enemy's have the ability to beam any of there people you capture off your ship shall you:

A) sit down say oh dear not again and have a cup of tea
or
B) develop and install technology that blocks the signal that's being transmitted to the enemy ship

JSPuddlejumper
February 23rd, 2008, 05:44 AM
"Why would you assume that the Asgard beam weapons are ready to fire as soon as you hit the on button?"

Unending. Instantly they were ready to fire for the first time, once the general gave the order.


That Cruiser was obviously super duper plot shielded cruiser. Teyla (unkillable character), Michael (still more appearances to go)...If the Asgard beam connected=death to both.

Hell, the entire 304 fleet wouldn't be able to connect it with the beams.

Charge time for the Asgard beams = roughly 1 second or so (see BAMSR'd).

Now if a 304 beam connected that cruiser = instant death. That is why both beam shots missed! And missed by a mile! LOL.

"Cruiser already suffered some heavy damage" Railguns at work. Caldwell was toying with the Cruiser and testing out the new railguns on it. After BAMSR'd, he should have known that the new railguns are pretty good, not sucking totally like the old stuff.

As for Wraith weapons, I speculated as well that either they are close or as good as the Asgard ones. They certainly use the same CGI effects.




But with the Asgard shields and weapons, Cruiser is absolutely no match, 12 Cruisers, ok. But probably need to the entire Cruiser fleet to take out the ZPM Odyssey.

The_Carpenter
February 23rd, 2008, 05:57 AM
"Why would you assume that the Asgard beam weapons are ready to fire as soon as you hit the on button?"

Unending. Instantly they were ready to fire for the first time, once the general gave the order.


The Odyssey had a ZPM installed which were supplementing the ships power supply.

More power = reduced charge up time.

As such the battle in Unending is not a viable comparison.

elbo
February 23rd, 2008, 05:58 AM
Actually we learned an important lesson in this episode. Wratih could easily take us out with few Cruisers. 5 Cruisers per Deadalus class ship should be a walk in the park. We just have to give them more time to regrup, form bigger alliances, create new races, build more ships, after the recent conflicts. Because we are the best at waiting. Maby we even wait until we drain all the ZPMs we have left and let Atlantis a sitting duck. I mean, i think our plan is to wait untill all the Wraith die from old age and we don't even have to fight.

JSPuddlejumper
February 23rd, 2008, 06:12 AM
1 HIT from the Asgard beam would destroy a Cruiser. Daedalus class had at least 3 beam weapons, some speculate 6. So, in optimal conditions (not surronded by all sides), the Daedalus would own a small fleet of Cruisers.

Of course, I would say 3-4 plot shield protected Cruisers will take out the Daedalus. Guranteed! Unless the Daedalus was plot shield protected as well, then all will survive the combat and retreat.

Since the beams are so hard to connect, and primarily railguns are used against plot protected Cruisers.

3 Ha'taks engaged Adria's Ori ship, 1-2-3 seconds later, all 3 Ha'taks were destroyed. Same thing would happen to the Cruisers vs 304's, unless plot shieded Cruiser.

SGFerrit
February 23rd, 2008, 06:24 AM
Is it possible that the beams have to be charged before firing. When we attacked the Asurans planet we fired railguns first.

We know fine well that it takes time to charge the Asgard weapons, It was said in BAMSR before the Asuran Aurora dropped out of hyperspace.

And to those who use Unending as a benchmark, don't. They were installed by the Asgard. These ones were backward engineered and installed by Earth. Hardly the same thing.

Anyway, I can't spend my time in here. Kindred was one of the best episodes of the season, and I ain't gonna get all pissy about some percieved inconsistencies.

jenks
February 23rd, 2008, 07:02 AM
Daudales? Seriously?

JSPuddlejumper
February 23rd, 2008, 08:08 AM
^lol.

The Dadaless, or any other 304 so far have not missed any shots against any ships they faced...

Suddenly, 2 shots point blank missed by a mile.

Obviously, plot/unkillable character (Teyla) based shields.

Same went for the battle at BAMSR'd.

Myles
February 23rd, 2008, 08:10 AM
^lol.

The Dadaless, or any other 304 so far have not missed any shots against any ships they faced...

Suddenly, 2 shots point blank missed by a mile.

Obviously, plot/unkillable character (Teyla) based shields.

Same went for the battle at BAMSR'd.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I remember the Oddy missing an Ori ship once or twice.

Specter177
February 23rd, 2008, 08:22 AM
You must remember, Marks wasn't there. So far, we've never seen him miss.

Mister Oragahn
February 23rd, 2008, 08:35 AM
Considering the ranges at which the ships fight, I wonder why they bother with missiles, energy cannons and railguns, and not just use huge rams, big hammers and giant trinium clubs.

kymeric
February 23rd, 2008, 09:43 AM
Everyone is ignoring the size difference between a hive an aurora and a cruiser. A hive is ginormous, an aurora is big, but a cruiser is little and manuverable so it actually has a chance of dodging the beam weapons.

As others have said the beams are very slow compared to most weapons. Giving time to dodge. If you get hit youre dead. Do you think Deaddy could shoot some darts with its beams at all? Would you scream plothole at that too?

McSwift
February 23rd, 2008, 09:49 AM
True, but my point still stands about the beams themselves; if your target is slow or big, you can hit it. But if it's small and fast, the beams are going to be pretty mich useless.

I agree with your points too.

Remember in a S5 episode of SG1 where an Al'kesh went up against a Ha'tak ship? The Al'Kesh was far more maniverable than a Ha'tak. The weapons on the Ha'tak was not able to hit the Al'kesh just because that ship was far too manuvable.

pbutter
February 23rd, 2008, 09:55 AM
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I remember the Oddy missing an Ori ship once or twice.

No, it never missed.
I also remember about the girl saying something about getting a lock on the engines, so they were just trying to take out the engines and disable it, without destroying it.

Also, Michael was probably piloting the cruiser, and he's been onboard the 304 before so he knows exactly where the bridge was located, and aiming right for it, thats why the 304 bridge was rocking more than usual.

Freekzilla
February 23rd, 2008, 10:18 AM
Speed of beam weapons are inconsisent, as inconsistent as the speed of the drones.

Examples: 1.)Asuran satellite beam weapon hitting the ocean from Orbit in roughly 1-2 seconds (near the speed of light).

Drone example: 2.)Drones reaching Annubis fleet in orbit a few seconds after being fired. Then a drone having trouble catching up to a dodging helicopter driven by John.

Hey, it is sci-fi. But don't be under the delusions about consistency.

1.)That wouldn't even be close to the speed of light, not by a long shot. If you take the average orbital distance, we can use a "safe" figure for earth for instance, of 100 miles, then used your 1-2 second time frame, (we'll use 2 seconds in this case), then that beam was traveling at 50 miles per second (50mi/s). Now, as you may or may not know, light travels at 186,282.397 miles per second. So, it's not even close to the speed of light. So you are completely wrong on that point. Even if it was 1000 miles from the surface, it would only be 500 miles per second, still well short of what you claim is the speed of light in this case.

2.) Wrong again. The drones took about a minute to reach orbit. Watch that scene again. Several characters had time to say several lines before they reached Anubis. The thing you are completely ignoring though, is the implied time difference that TV requires. For instance, look at when Sheppard went through the Intergalactic Gate Bridge the first time. They clearly tell you that it takes 30 minutes to get completely through the network to earth, or 15 minutes per side, yet, we see Shep's jumper go in the gate at Atlantis and something like 10 seconds later we see him coming out at midway. So, did it really only take 10 seconds, or did it take the full 15 minutes but we are expected to understand that a certain period of time had been implied to have passed? This sort of thing happens ALL the time in TV shows and is necessary because it is the only way to show everything without it being both boring and taking forever to tell. It's called time compression. Now, there is also something slightly different about the two examples you used for drones. Beckett was trying to stop the drone and/or was not guiding it to the target. Therefore, the drone was probably guiding itself instead of having the person in the control chair influence it's performance/guidance.


Indeed. The speed of the beam has been consistent. It's the way the Daedalus moved so slowly and only used rail guns at first that was annoying...But I guess we can blame the chick.
"Sorry, sir..."
"Well, screw you! Take her to the brig!"

Well, the rail guns can remain loaded and ready to fire at all times, while the beam weapons need to be charged up first. So, it would be a good idea to have those rail guns ready to go so you can respond quickly, but it is a little curious that they didn't have all weapons ready to go knowing that they could have been going into a hostile situation. But as for the Daedalus moving slowly, I think part of that was for two reasons: 1.) that Wraith Cruiser surprised them, apparently nothing appeared on sensors when they arrived, so they relaxed their readiness level. 2.) Maybe they wanted to stay well in range of the planet in case the strike team needed to be beamed up quickly. Maybe they felt that they didn't need to zoom around like they normally do. It was just one cruiser after all. It's not exactly as big a threat as a hive or a group of ships. Who knows.


That's true, but it erks me, too! It cut through GOD KNOWS HOW MANY AURORAS IN BAMSR!!!! And the Travelers' aurora was able to take out that cruiser easily (once the weapons were up)! Curse you plot line! CURSSSSE YOUUUUUU!

Oh really? It completely destroyed several Repli-Aurora class ships? Gee, and I thought it only did very heavy damage to them. I must have missed the huge explosions where those auroras blew up.. :rolleyes: Drones and the Asgard beam weapons are not equivalent and perform differently. It's completely logical that one would be more effective against a Wraith ship than the other weapon type. In fact, I am glad that is apparently the case. Otherwise, the threat posed by the Wraith would be diminished to the point of making the story boring.


LOL. Complete plot device (brings back memories of BAMSR'd), but is even much worse in this case.

Beams slow? In all sci-fi, not SGA bull, beam weapons travel at or near speed of light!

Beams will hit anything if your aiming is on.

1 beam hit = destroyed cruiser, it would definitely cause massive damage leading to its destruction, or dissect a cruiser if it hit sideways (which happened to an Aurora in BAMSR'd, Auroras are far larger than a Cruiser).

So obviously, due to plot device, the Daedalus has been firing maybe 1 rail gun at the cruiser, in very short burst during this time.

Keep in mind that railguns have been upgraded, CGI different, a lot of damage to unshielded Auroras. So if they opened up with all their railguns=dead Cruiser as well.

Obviously, the Daedalus was protecting the Cruiser. Doh. The little baby crusier, here is some Mama's milk

Actually, a Wraith cruise is around the same size as a Aurora class ship IIRC. Maybe not as long, but close in total mass, as the cruiser is wider. You have to remember that Auroras are supposed to be much smaller than hive ships, and a hive ship is many times the size of the cruisers, especially since a hive can have 3 cruisers attached to it and they are clearly much smaller, but not to the point of being as small as you are saying. Watch "The Siege 1,2,3" again. The hive has been guessed at being anything from 5km to 11km long. So, here is a link showing a screen cap of both the hive and cruiser side by side. And, new upgraded rail guns? What's your source for this claim?

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/120/html/siege404.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/119/html/bscap002.html

And I think you are grossly over estimating that 1 beam shot=kill of a Wraith cruiser. Aurora class ships are not armored like wraith ships. But, they do have shields, so in a way it evens out.



Lets take your 30 seconds to reach orbit. Imagine that speed! O'Neill's helicopter is doomed. Plot device.

Same goes for the varying rate of speed of beam weapons.

Only a matter of time before the Daedalus or another 304s fires from orbit at a planetary target, and you will see 2-3 second delay at most before it hits...Not 30-1 minute delay. Close to speed of
light speeds.

The beams need at most 1-2 seconds to charge. In the end, the show needs Kindred part II =)See above.


better question why didn't the daedulas scan the ship for Teyla's tracker the moment the ship arrived.

You are told that a particular place holds a special hostage, one that is important to you. You go there scan the place, and find out she isn't there, but you do a manual search anyways. A little while later a much slower ship than your arrives. My first orders would be to raise shields, and scan that ship for Teyla. Then bring weapons online and disable the vessel's hyperdrive, and sublight engines. You need prisioners, and Information.

Damn Plot shields. Maybe they were a little more concerned about not dying first than scanning for a subcutaneous locator beacon. Besides, we as viewers have the benefit of both hindsight and seeing both sides of the story. Not so with the characters in the show. And remember, hindsight is always 20/20. ;)

Integrabyte
February 23rd, 2008, 11:05 AM
This ship must be new. Daudales, who built it?

pbutter
February 23rd, 2008, 11:18 AM
Daudales ?
It's spelt Daedalus, named after a greek engineer or something.

reddevil18
February 23rd, 2008, 12:20 PM
Daudales ?
It's spelt Daedalus, named after a greek engineer or something.
Or something...
And remember kids, dyslexia is not funny...Well, it is, but...yeah...

Integrabyte
February 23rd, 2008, 12:21 PM
Or something...
And remember kids, dyslexia is not funny...Well, it is, but...yeah...

I would use another word :P. Il.....

reddevil18
February 23rd, 2008, 12:28 PM
I would use another word :P. Il.....Oooohhh...A game!!! Ummm...Illinois?

Mitchell82
February 23rd, 2008, 12:52 PM
Pleaaaaaaaase...:rolleyes: They were using rail guns up until the end...It was a plot contrivance. You see a Wraith ship that opens fire, you use the beam weapons. Simple as that. I wish they could have found another way of dealing with the situation...

Then Teyla would have been killed. It was handled fine.

reddevil18
February 23rd, 2008, 12:59 PM
Then Teyla would have been killed. It was handled fine.Yeah, that's my point. We can find all kinds of silly excuses, but the fact remains that the only reason the cruiser survived was, as others have said, the "plot shield" - Teyla couldn't die.

Mitchell82
February 23rd, 2008, 01:04 PM
Yeah, that's my point. We can find all kinds of silly excuses, but the fact remains that the only reason the cruiser survived was, as others have said, the "plot shield" - Teyla couldn't die.

Exactly. In normal circumstances yes the cruiser would have been space debris. I'm still fine with how it was done.

nub
February 23rd, 2008, 01:19 PM
I haven't read this entire thread but imo it should have gone like this.

1. The Daedalus comes out of hyperspace over the planet.
2. Sheppard and the team beam down and begin fighting those wraith worshippers.
3. sheppard and the team overcome them and win the battle.
4. wraith cruiser appears out of hyperspace.
5. colonel w/e his name is radios down to sheppard to say hurry up, wraith crusier has appeared.
6. The worshipper guy tells sheppard he's too early, i.e teyla is on the ship
7. The commander of Daedalus orders something like "target the ship with the beam weapons and destroy it"
8. sheppard radios back saying don't destroy the ship just in time for the commander to delay the order.

and the rest continue as normal.

Avenger
February 23rd, 2008, 01:25 PM
Everything I've seen indicates that the beam weapons are fixed cannons. They can't move to track their target like the rail guns can. What we have is a moving ship (the Daedalus) trying to attack a moving target, which is small and quite maneuverable (compared to a Hive). The situation is no different than someone with a pistol trying to hit a moving target while the shooter is moving as well. The chance of actually hitting someone in that kind of situation is well below 5%.

The beam weapons are extremely effective against large and/or slow targets. They become much less effective when trying to hit a small, fast target.

Zamboni
February 23rd, 2008, 01:53 PM
Caldwell was clearly drunk. He even sounded funny. Isn't it obvious that the bridge crew were playing the "let's take a shot every time the shield goes down one percent" drinking game? Look!
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5995/beergi5.jpg

reddevil18
February 23rd, 2008, 01:57 PM
Everything I've seen indicates that the beam weapons are fixed cannons. They can't move to track their target like the rail guns can. What we have is a moving ship (the Daedalus) trying to attack a moving target, which is small and quite maneuverable (compared to a Hive). The situation is no different than someone with a pistol trying to hit a moving target while the shooter is moving as well. The chance of actually hitting someone in that kind of situation is well below 5%.

The beam weapons are extremely effective against large and/or slow targets. They become much less effective when trying to hit a small, fast target.
The cruisers might be smaller compared to Hives, but they're still fairly large ships, bigger than the Daedalus. So you can't really call them "small" targets. If it were a dart, or an Alkesh...
And this image proves that they're not fixed cannons:
http://i32.tinypic.com/bg9ohd.png
It doesn't have a 360 degree view, but they're definately not fixed. That would mean that the ship would have to face its target at all times...

Avenger
February 23rd, 2008, 02:57 PM
Alright, nix the fixed deal, but we're still taking about a moving target trying to hit another moving target. In BAMSR, the Auroras were quite stationary.

garhkal
February 23rd, 2008, 04:15 PM
I would say that the wraith have very powerful weapon's similar to the ones the Asgard earlier (they are both blue bolts) had on their ship's, wraith ship's also have a faster rate of fire than Asgard ships.

Plus i have noted that the closer an enemy is when they DO shoot, the more the ship seems to shake...


better question why didn't the daedulas scan the ship for Teyla's tracker the moment the ship arrived.

Michael removed it.

JSPuddlejumper
February 23rd, 2008, 06:03 PM
Time to deal with reality people!

Daedalus did not take out the Cruiser with 1 shot BECAUSE of PLOT SHIELDS.

Plain and simple.

None of the 304's has ever missed with the beams, not once! And no, they are not fixed cannons.
The beams move ultra fast. In other sci-fi shows, it depends, but usually close to or at light speed.

Avenger
February 23rd, 2008, 07:17 PM
They fired all of a dozen times. That's not exactly a large sample size. Expecting a 100% hit rate is absurd.

JSPuddlejumper
February 23rd, 2008, 08:13 PM
What is more absurd is anybody trying to come up with an explanation as to why the Daedalus missed, and why the railguns were used until the very end, 2 beam shots by the way and they missed by a mile.

Explaination is very simple and has been used in SGA before, SG1 and many other shows: Unkillable main character on board.

pbutter
February 23rd, 2008, 08:59 PM
I've said this before, I think they missed because they were trying to disable the the cruiser, by trying to take one of it's engines out, plus, it was only a cruiser... not that big of a threat.

BTW, does anyone have a youtube link to the fight scene.

Avenger
February 23rd, 2008, 09:11 PM
What is more absurd is anybody trying to come up with an explanation as to why the Daedalus missed, and why the railguns were used until the very end, 2 beam shots by the way and they missed by a mile.

Explaination is very simple and has been used in SGA before, SG1 and many other shows: Unkillable main character on board.

Why is it absurd to think of reason why they missed? Yes, the reason is that the script said they miss. And there is a character onboard who can't be killed. However, there are still reasonable explanations as to why and stretching our imaginations a little bit to figure some kind of reasonable explanation that fits within the confines of what we saw on screen happens all the time.

Blistna
February 23rd, 2008, 09:24 PM
Indeed. The speed of the beam has been consistent. It's the way the Daedalus moved so slowly and only used rail guns at first that was annoying...But I guess we can blame the chick.
"Sorry, sir..."
"Well, screw you! Take her to the brig!"

Plus remember...they were aiming for the engines, not the ship. So give them a break.

nx01a
February 23rd, 2008, 10:52 PM
In BAMSR, the Auroras were quite stationary.
In BAMSR, the Auroras were quite useless.

I just think it's cool and highly fitting that Michael's cruiser should be the one to inflict damage upon AND evade Asgard shields and weapons, respectively.

With him on our side, I bet he would have cured the Asgard disease, too. :mckay:
Damn, where's the Michael smiley?! We need a Michael smiley!

nx01a
February 23rd, 2008, 10:54 PM
Plus remember...they were aiming for the engines, not the ship. So give them a break.
The engines're kind of on the ship. :P
But I know what you mean.

Freekzilla
February 23rd, 2008, 11:43 PM
Time to deal with reality people!

Daedalus did not take out the Cruiser with 1 shot BECAUSE of PLOT SHIELDS.

Plain and simple.

None of the 304's has ever missed with the beams, not once! And no, they are not fixed cannons.
The beams move ultra fast. In other sci-fi shows, it depends, but usually close to or at light speed.


What is more absurd is anybody trying to come up with an explanation as to why the Daedalus missed, and why the railguns were used until the very end, 2 beam shots by the way and they missed by a mile.

Explaination is very simple and has been used in SGA before, SG1 and many other shows: Unkillable main character on board.

What I find curious is that you keep claiming that the Asgard beam weapons will destroy a cruiser in one single shot, especially considering there is absolutely zero evidence that that would be the case. In fact, we don't even know how the Asgard weapons will perform against any Wraith ship. If we take a guess and estimate, as that is the best we can do right now, I highly doubt that would be the case. It took 4-5 shots of those same beam weapons coming from two Daedalus class ships to destroy the first Repli-Aurora. And we do know that Aurora class ships are not as heavily armored as wraith hives and cruisers. So we can safely say your 1 shot = instant death claim is totally debunked.

Two, you keep screaming, and almost quite literally, "at or near the speed of light" blah blah blah. You seem to be trying to equate light speed to mean instantaneous impact, which cannot be the case, in ANY SciFi series or genre. The problem is, while light is fast, it still takes time to cover distances. Now, here's a quote from wikipedia and it is scientifically correct:


The speed of light in a vacuum is an important physical constant denoted by the letter c for constant or for the Latin celeritas ("swiftness").[1][2] It is the speed of all electromagnetic radiation, including visible light, in a vacuum. More generally, it is the speed of anything having zero rest mass.

And in what show do the energy beams move at or near the speed of light? I've seen a lot of scifi shows and can't remember ANY energy weapons being instantaneous, or moving at the speed of light. Just because an energy beam emits light, doesn't mean the beam itself is moving at the speed of light. You are just seriously over estimating things and grossly misunderstand what it means to be moving at the speed of light. If something was moving at the speed of light, it would be out of your perceptual range. To demonstrate, take an rifle bullet and hold it at arms length. At this distance and speed (stationary), you can see it clearly. Now, have the bullet fired in a path that is again at arms length from you and moving across your field of view. Do you see the bullet actually fly past you? Nope. You can't see it, it's too fast for you to perceive. It is possible to see the affects of it flying past you in very rare occasions, and it is really hard to see those effects. And that rifle bullet, say a M16/M-4 bullet is ony moving it 2400 feet per second or 1636 Miles per hour. So, if you can observe the motion of an object, then it is not moving at the speed of light. There are other things to consider, like the Doppler Effect, but saying something is moving at the speed of light just because it seems very fast to you is just plainly wrong.

Ouroboros
February 24th, 2008, 12:27 AM
I really can't believe there's still people here trying to say that that cruiser didn't eat at least a few minutes of "beam weapons" before they tried to cripple it. We know it's not going to die in one shot already from the simple fact that they tried to use the beams to cripple it's engines, you know, as in not blow it to pieces with 1 hit.

You can't resist the retroactive canon folks. The cruisers will pwn joo now. They're each the equal of at least a squadren of repli auroras which die in but a single salvo of wank.

If it makes you feel better you could say it probably always should have been this way. The Wraith beat the ancients with their own 10,000 year old out of date tech. It always was kinda stupid to think that old outdated ancient **** would actually be any threat to modern Wraith after they'd had 10,000 years to improve on the tech that was evidently already good enough to defeat the ancients 10,000 years ago.

It should have been a case of "Aurora?!?!? lol, what museum is it from?" from the begining.

If you don't like that than just wait. The balance of plot will swing again soon enough with no regard to what went before. This is just the year of the Wraith cruiser.

DmitriWillguard
February 24th, 2008, 01:37 AM
It always was kinda stupid to think that old outdated ancient **** would actually be any threat to modern Wraith after they'd had 10,000 years to improve on the tech that was evidently already good enough to defeat the ancients 10,000 years ago.

Actually, it's pretty clear that they haven't made any upgrades, based on what the Ancient satellite weapon did to that Hive Ship before the siege. And the Orion's drones pwning a hive ship. And all the other examples we've seen where Ancient tech went up against Wraith tech.

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 04:17 AM
"What I find curious is that you keep claiming that the Asgard beam weapons will destroy a cruiser in one single shot, especially considering there is absolutely zero evidence that that would be the case. In fact, we don't even know how the Asgard weapons will perform against any Wraith ship. If we take a guess and estimate, as that is the best we can do right now, I highly doubt that would be the case. It took 4-5 shots of those same beam weapons coming from two Daedalus class ships to destroy the first Repli-Aurora. And we do know that Aurora class ships are not as heavily armored as wraith hives and cruisers. So we can safely say your 1 shot = instant death claim is totally debunked."

You need to understand SCALE. Hives are 11km, so obviously it is much more likely have more armor than an Aurora (about 1400 meters).

Aurora, premiere warship of the Ancients, obviously it will have superb armor. Crusier (500-600 meters TOPS).



First Aurora, if they stopped at 2 beam shots it would have been destroyed. It was completely on fire and would have blew up on its own!!! REWATCH. First Aurora, they kept firing, they were uncertain about what the beams would do, thus it got disintergrated as they kept firing.

2nd Aurora, 1st shot did damage to the front section, 2nd shot nearly dissected the Aurora at the middle and easily destroyed it!

Crusier, far smaller than an Aurora. 1 shot will destroy a Cruiser. Cruiser is FAR FAR smaller than an Aurora. Only way the Cruiser can survive a beam hit, if it glanced it at the sides. Any direct hit=instant death.

Lantean satellite, dissected a Hive (11km) with a beam weapon and very very easily! That beam continued on after the dissection.


Now get real people. The beams are uber. You are trying to have a silly argument, like S09119 and a few others had with me, saying the Asgard beams wont work on Auroras, only designed to take out Ori shields, blah, blah, blah and blah!

That is why both shots missed, otherwise Cruiser is dead on contact. Unkillable main character death, reoccuring season 5 character dead.

If the Asgard beams work on Ori ships (made with help of Ascended beings!)and destroys them, they will take out lessers ships like Auroras, Hives, Ha'taks, Cruisers etc easy.


Doh!

reddevil18
February 24th, 2008, 06:29 AM
I really can't believe there's still people here trying to say that that cruiser didn't eat at least a few minutes of "beam weapons" before they tried to cripple it.They were using rail guns.
We know it's not going to die in one shot already from the simple fact that they tried to use the beams to cripple it's engines, you know, as in not blow it to pieces with 1 hit. No, we don't. All we know is that they were TRYING to cripple it. If they had hit the engines, maybe it would still have blown up.


You can't resist the retroactive canon folks. The cruisers will pwn joo now. They're each the equal of at least a squadren of repli auroras which die in but a single salvo of wank.Where the hell did yuu get that? Maybe you need to understand what "canon" means. The Repli-Auroras aren't as good as the real thing, but they'd still take out a cruiser with just a few drones.

It always was kinda stupid to think that old outdated ancient **** would actually be any threat to modern Wraith after they'd had 10,000 years to improve on the tech that was evidently already good enough to defeat the ancients 10,000 years ago.And, again, where exactly are you getting this "modern Wraith" tech idea? It was obvious from the beginning that they didn't improve their tech. And it makes sense. They hardly seem the explorer type. They did what they needed to drive their enemy away and then proceeded to eat people.

YutheGreat
February 24th, 2008, 06:43 AM
They did heavy damage on a cruiser. It is probably the Reason Michael decided to run In my opinion it wasn't that bad. Plus there are differences in fighting Auroras and Wraith ships. Among them:

1. The Asuran Aurora's we fought were always caught off guard since we had the subspace transponder to detect them wherever they were. The very first Aurora the Daedalus and Appollo took out just came out of hyperspace. As we know in hyperspace automaticcally no shields or weapons.

It is the reason why:

The Asgards were able to destroy the 3 replicator vessel on its way to the Asgard homeworld using The O'neil's self destruct in small victories.

The Asgards were able to destroy the Fifth's ship, made purely of replicator blocks, on its way to Orilla in the episode the New Order

2. Wraith ships are much larger than Auroras.

3. One also has to take into consideration the Wraith won the war against the Ancients. So there ships can survive hits from multiple drones.

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 06:52 AM
If the Cruiser was hit my 1 beam = total annihilation. Thus it was not. 2 beam hits missed completely.

Wraith Cruisers are quite small.


As for the Hives, it will obviously take several beam hits to destroy one of them.


By the way, "very good replicas" the Asuran Aurora's. Not very bad Replica's. Ancient build Larren Aurora performance proved that Asuran Aurora's=Ancient Aurora's, minus ZPM.

Dutch_Razor
February 24th, 2008, 07:05 AM
Yes, that's fine and well, but the Daedalus is even more maneuvrable. Realistically, the cruiser should've been blown to pieces. They should have used the beam weapons from the get go. It was just something silly, to suit the plot.

Actually if you think about it, they might have been waiting for Sheppard to confirm Teyla (and the Athisians) weren't on that ship, trying to disable the engines via rail guns with minimum risk.

GeneralLuckyAC
February 24th, 2008, 07:52 AM
yeah, dont want to go accsidently blowing up all of the athosians.

s09119
February 24th, 2008, 08:00 AM
I really can't believe there's still people here trying to say that that cruiser didn't eat at least a few minutes of "beam weapons" before they tried to cripple it. We know it's not going to die in one shot already from the simple fact that they tried to use the beams to cripple it's engines, you know, as in not blow it to pieces with 1 hit.

You can't resist the retroactive canon folks. The cruisers will pwn joo now. They're each the equal of at least a squadren of repli auroras which die in but a single salvo of wank.


Um... what? The beams missed the cruiser twice; there was no impact.

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 08:58 AM
The Wraith can block Asgard beaming tech, perhaps they also have a countermeasure against an accurate weapons lock from Asgard sensors and weapons?

Nah, it all comes down to primary character shield and secondary plot shield.

reddevil18
February 24th, 2008, 10:37 AM
They did heavy damage on a cruiser. It is probably the Reason Michael decided to run In my opinion it wasn't that bad. Plus there are differences in fighting Auroras and Wraith ships. Among them:

1. The Asuran Aurora's we fought were always caught off guard since we had the subspace transponder to detect them wherever they were. The very first Aurora the Daedalus and Appollo took out just came out of hyperspace. As we know in hyperspace automaticcally no shields or weapons.

It is the reason why:

The Asgards were able to destroy the 3 replicator vessel on its way to the Asgard homeworld using The O'neil's self destruct in small victories.

The Asgards were able to destroy the Fifth's ship, made purely of replicator blocks, on its way to Orilla in the episode the New OrderYes, that was because they wanted to take advantage of their lack of shields. But the beams can obviously pass through a powerful shield after a few shots.


2. Wraith ships are much larger than Auroras.A cruiser is about the same, maybe a bit smaller, which takes the "it's a small target" thing out of the equation. And its size and "hull regeneration" wouldn't be able to help for long, without shields. So, maybe not one hit from the beam weapons, but 3 or so...


3. One also has to take into consideration the Wraith won the war against the Ancients. So there ships can survive hits from multiple drones.That argument is useless. They won because of numbers. Even Todd explained in SoW. The Ancient ships were so powerful that they became overconfident and sent their ships alone deeper into Wraith territory. Eventually, being swarmed by Wraith, the ships either were destroyed or captured. And we don't really know how Wraith ships are built. Maybe they're grown and they had facilities to produce ships similar to the cloning facility for their warriors. But the fact remains that Wraith tech is vastly inferior and as long as they didn't surround the Daeddy from all sides, with dozens of ships, there's no way they'd come out on top.
No, this is a plain and simple "plot shield". There's no point in discussing it any further. Heck, they even made sure it made sense, by having the chick instead of Marks. If he were there, they wouldn't have missed. Like I said - blame the chick! :D

RepliVeggie
February 24th, 2008, 11:45 AM
The weapons officer was trying to barely hit the engines so it makes sense, she was trying hit hit a 20 foot area on the ship or so.

reddevil18
February 24th, 2008, 11:50 AM
The weapons officer was trying to barely hit the engines so it makes sense, she was trying hit hit a 20 foot area on the ship or so.
She's useless! If Russell Crowe were the captain, she'd get at least 20 lashes!

Avenger
February 24th, 2008, 11:54 AM
Crusier, far smaller than an Aurora. 1 shot will destroy a Cruiser. Cruiser is FAR FAR smaller than an Aurora. Only way the Cruiser can survive a beam hit, if it glanced it at the sides. Any direct hit=instant death.

You're making assumptions based on thoughts in your head hear. There is no visual evidence from any of the episodes to indicate how the beam weapons will effect a Wraith ship. In other words: Fail


Lantean satellite, dissected a Hive (11km) with a beam weapon and very very easily! That beam continued on after the dissection.

Not the same technology. We're talking about a massive Ancient satellite vs. ship board Asgard beam weapons. You can't use one kind of beam technology and assume it's the same as another. Again: Fail



Now get real people. The beams are uber. You are trying to have a silly argument, like S09119 and a few others had with me, saying the Asgard beams wont work on Auroras, only designed to take out Ori shields, blah, blah, blah and blah!

At the time that the beam weapons were first used on the Ori, all we had seen was them working against Ori ships. Questioning whether they would work against Auroas before we actually see them work against Auroras is not a stupid argument. We've seen plenty of examples where one kind of weapon is effective against one kind of ship and completely ineffective against another in other SG episodes.


If the Asgard beams work on Ori ships (made with help of Ascended beings!)and destroys them, they will take out lessers ships like Auroras, Hives, Ha'taks, Cruisers etc easy.

Until it's show on screen, all you're doing is making assumptions. You know what they say about people who assume.

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 01:28 PM
^^The combined firepower of all Jaffa Hatak's had no effect on the Supergate, then we can safely assume that the Ori ship's are made of equally strong materials, and if Asgard beam weapons could burn a hole through Ori ship's hull, then they would easily devistate Wraith Cruisers from a single shot.

The_Carpenter
February 24th, 2008, 01:32 PM
^^The combined firepower of all Jaffa Hatak's had no effect on the Supergate, then we can safely assume that the Ori ship's are made of equally strong materials, and if Asgard beam weapons could burn a hole through Ori ship's hull, then they would easily devistate Wraith Cruisers from a single shot.

Why would you assume that?

The supergate segments are likely comprised of Naquadah like the other Stargates. Additionally the segments are held together with in a energy field of some description which may of acted like a form of shield.

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 02:54 PM
You know what they say about people who assume.
You assume I'm assuming what you're assuming that I'm assuming, I assume.

My take on the Asgard plasma beams and the Wraith:

The Asgard made them as their final offensive weapon ever, and specifically in the battle against the Ori. We don't know whether the beams were designed specially for taking out Ori Motherships or not, but we've seen them destroy the Ori ships in a handful of shots as well as destroying Auroras with ease. Granted, the knowledge may have come from Ascended Beings, but the rings aboard suggest the tech is still potentially in line with Ancient technology. It fits that weapons able to take out potentially Ancient in lineage ships [Ori] would work against pre-ascended Ancient Auroras. And they did.

You're right that one kind of energy can't just be substituted for another. Try shooting an Ascended Ancient with a staff blast, see what happens. The satellite beam and the Asgard beam might be two completely different things, and probably are since one requires lots of hardware and little energy while the other requires relatively little hardware but probably more energy than from a naguadah generator.

As far as we've seen, the Wraith have no shields and depend wholely and solely on the organic hulls of their ships for protection. They can't stay in hyperspace for long periods due to radiation affecting the organics, which need time to regenerate. So we know the ships are vulnerable to radiation/energy from hyperspace and the defense satellites. I'm saying that a ship without energy shielding and with an organic hull that's already shown vulnerability to at least two forms of radiation [not to mention their own bolts] to might also be vulnerable to a beam able to take out energy shields and trinium/naquadah/neutronium/whatever hulls. Considering how easily the Asgard beams have taken out ships like that, perhaps they would take out Wraith ships a bit easier and with fewer shots necessary? Well, a cruiser, perhaps. The larger mass and potentially thicker hull might make Hive destruction take a bit longer.

Anyway, I just wanted to weigh in with my fanboy 2 cents worth. And hopefully not get caught up in any person assault.:o

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 02:57 PM
She's useless! If Russell Crowe were the captain, she'd get at least 20 lashes!
Thankfully, the phone-thrower is not her Master and Commander on the far side of Pegasus.

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Why would you assume that?

Why not ?
Why would I ? ..Well, i have common sense.



The supergate segments are likely comprised of Naquadah like the other Stargates. Additionally the segments are held together with in a energy field of some description which may of acted like a form of shield.
Why would you assume that ?
BTW, Carter stood on the thing, there was no shield.

The_Carpenter
February 24th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Why not ?
Why would I ? ..Well, i have common sense.

Why would you assume that ?

Hmmm, evidence shows that all stargates previously were made of Naquadah we have no evidence to suggest otherwise


Carter stood on the thing, there was no shield.

Yes she did stand on it, but there is an energy field holding the segments together as stated in Beachhead, now such an energy field may have a effect on the strength of the energy weapon fire aimed at the supergate.

reddevil18
February 24th, 2008, 03:07 PM
Thankfully, the phone-thrower is not her Master and Commander on the far side of Pegasus.
What do you mean "thankfully"? :mckay: I'd have paid good money to see that!

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Damn some of you guys are so dense, and possibly low IQ or very young children:

Asgard beams went through Ori ships.

Asgard beam nearly dissected an Aurora in half (BAMSR'd, battle over Asuras).

And you think a tiny Wraith Crusier can withstand beam hits? Are you out of freaking minds.

If the Wraith Crusier did survive beam hits, it must have been about 5-6 beams. If that is the case, then Earth should call it a day and surrender.

Obviously a tiny piece of junk like a Wraith Cruiser >> Ori ship (build with the help of Ascended beings no less!) and Auroras (premiere warship of the Ancients).

Then the Wraith should just go ahead and conquer the universe, and right now.

In reality: Plot shields, hell the Daedalus was firing very few railgun fire, see the fight! It missed by a mile 2 beams, 'trying' to hit the engines. Wraith Crusier=fragile egg compared the Daedalus. Hell on a good day, I would not be least bit surprised if the Daedalus can defeat a DOZEN cruisers at once. Crusier will be destoryed with 1 beam hit. Daedalus has at least 3 beam cannons.

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 03:18 PM
Yes she did stand on it, but there is an energy field holding the segments together as stated in Beachhead, now such an energy field may have a effect on the strength of the energy weapon fire aimed at the supergate.

I seriously doubt it, we have never seen such a thing in Stargate, besides, it makes absolutely no sense, why would an energy field holding the stargate segments together have an effect on weapons fired at it, Carter herself, was beamed on top of the segment with no problem whatsoever, not with beaming, or with standing on it.

Avenger
February 24th, 2008, 03:19 PM
Until the beam weapon is shown actually hitting a Wraith ship, we have no idea what will happen. For all we know, the fact that Wraith ships are partly organic could have some strange effect on the weapon. Or it could shred the ship. The point is that we don't know yet. All we do know is that physical weapons, rail guns and drones, damage Wraith ships. The point is that we don't actually know yet.

reddevil18
February 24th, 2008, 03:19 PM
Damn some of you guys are so dense, and possibly low IQ or very young children:

Asgard beams went through Ori ships.

Asgard beam nearly dissected an Aurora in half (BAMSR'd, battle over Asuras).

And you think a tiny Wraith Crusier can withstand beam hits? Are you out of freaking minds.

If the Wraith Crusier did survive beam hits, it must have been about 5-6 beams. If that is the case, then Earth should call it a day and surrender.

Obviously a tiny piece of junk like a Wraith Cruiser >> Ori ship (build with the help of Ascended beings no less!) and Auroras (premiere warship of the Ancients).

Then the Wraith should just go ahead and conquer the universe, and right now.

In reality: Plot shields, hell the Daedalus was firing very few railgun fire, see the fight! It missed by a mile 2 beams, 'trying' to hit the engines. Wraith Crusier=fragile egg compared the Daedalus. Hell on a good day, I would not be least bit surprised if the Daedalus can defeat a DOZEN cruisers at once. Crusier will be destoryed with 1 beam hit. Daedalus has at least 3 beam cannons.
Yes, "plot shields". Yes, it doesn't make sense, especially as they only shot ONE of the beam weapons, instead of using the one on the right side, which had a clear view of the cruiser, instead of the left, which was obstructed by the Daeddy's own hull. But there's no need to call anyone "thick" or "with low IQ's"...

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 03:22 PM
I think some people need to rewatch the fight, and think rationally.


I do not think the Daedalus has gotten slow, just a few people on these boards.

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 03:31 PM
^^Ha Ha, ..That's very funny.. you're comical.
But, i think we should all stop name calling, besides, i think it will be reaveled very soon on the show. I think there is a ship based episode this season.. i think it's called "Daedalus" something.. of Just "Daedalus"

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Ok, no more name calling.

Anyway, Lantean satellite dissected a 11km Hive. A HIVE. And actually, the beam continued on after the dissection. So much for Wraith uber armor.

Wraith Crusier, 500-600 meters long, at most only 300 meters wide. A great target for dissection.

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 04:03 PM
Ah.. dagnamit!! it's actually seaon-5, it's called "Daedalus Variations", i'm pretty sure it'll have something to do with the ship, i just hope the ship does'nt go boom..

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 04:04 PM
'Variations' might imply some kind of time travel or even quantum reality alternate versions of the ship. Hopefully, at least one of them will go boom.

Avenger
February 24th, 2008, 04:21 PM
Anyway, Lantean satellite dissected a 11km Hive. A HIVE. And actually, the beam continued on after the dissection. So much for Wraith uber armor.

And how much bigger was that satellite weapon than what's mounted on the Daedalus?

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 07:21 PM
I have screen captions of the 2 beams that missed the Cruiser: Well over 1 mile in length is the beam. Maybe my imagination, but they seemed to have grown in length since BAMSR'd, just could be the angle.

Anyway, if any those connected, they should dissect the Cruiser any any angle.

If the ships engage again we will know. Hopefully, if Michael is on board, he will escape the blast, as he is likely in Season 5.

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 07:42 PM
You know, you can alway's post the screenshot.

reddevil18
February 24th, 2008, 07:49 PM
He's right. The beam keeps going well out of the frame.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2dsla1u.png

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 08:00 PM
I am usually right =)

Damn, it looks like that baby can dissect a Hive! It should not be able to, though.

And about combat capabilities, I never been wrong so far.

JSPuddlejumper
February 24th, 2008, 08:08 PM
If they were aiming at the engines, that is way too much power. It would have dissected the ship in half. Which shows that the Asgard beams are not useful for crippling ships, only good for destroying things.

Generally 1 shot kills, however for a Hive (unless it hits a sensitive spot), it will take several hits to take out.

Should have stuck to the railguns. And aim better.

Freekzilla
February 24th, 2008, 09:32 PM
You need to understand SCALE. Hives are 11km, so obviously it is much more likely have more armor than an Aurora (about 1400 meters).

Aurora, premiere warship of the Ancients, obviously it will have superb armor. Crusier (500-600 meters TOPS).

First Aurora, if they stopped at 2 beam shots it would have been destroyed. It was completely on fire and would have blew up on its own!!! REWATCH. First Aurora, they kept firing, they were uncertain about what the beams would do, thus it got disintergrated as they kept firing.

2nd Aurora, 1st shot did damage to the front section, 2nd shot nearly dissected the Aurora at the middle and easily destroyed it!

Crusier, far smaller than an Aurora. 1 shot will destroy a Cruiser. Cruiser is FAR FAR smaller than an Aurora. Only way the Cruiser can survive a beam hit, if it glanced it at the sides. Any direct hit=instant death.

Lantean satellite, dissected a Hive (11km) with a beam weapon and very very easily! That beam continued on after the dissection.

Now get real people. The beams are uber. You are trying to have a silly argument, like S09119 and a few others had with me, saying the Asgard beams wont work on Auroras, only designed to take out Ori shields, blah, blah, blah and blah!

That is why both shots missed, otherwise Cruiser is dead on contact. Unkillable main character death, reoccuring season 5 character dead.

If the Asgard beams work on Ori ships (made with help of Ascended beings!)and destroys them, they will take out lessers ships like Auroras, Hives, Ha'taks, Cruisers etc easy.

Doh!

Yeah, premiere warship of a race that was pretty passive most of the time.

Only reason the first two shots did any damage at all was because the Repli-Aurora didn't have it's shields up. Without those shields, it was a forgone conclusion what would happen. And the point is, the Aurora's shields are in one way analogous to a wraith's hull armor. The intent is the same, but the method is different. So, do you really think that Aurora would have gone down that fast if it had it's shields up? I don't think so.

Now, what gives you the idea that a Wraith cruiser is so much smaller than an Aurora class ship? Do you have any evidence to support you claim? Now, you have stated 11km as a size for the hive ship. Can't really argue that, as it is still up in the air, but I have seen estimates that ranged from 5-6km up to 11km. So nothing we can do about that now. BUT, if we stick with your 11km size figure, then how big would the cruisers be in comparison? Here is some screen captures that illustrate the size comparison between a Hive and Cruiser. Clearly the cruiser is much smaller than the hive. But, if the Hive is 11km long, then quite obviously the cruiser is more than the 500-600 meters you claim. LOOK AT THE SCREEN CAPS, IT'S RIGHT THERE.

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/120/html/siege404.html
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s1/119/html/bscap002.html

Now, try to explain that. You claim 500-600 meters for a wraith cruiser, which would indeed make it smaller than an Aurora. But the evidence proves you wrong. So you cannot claim that "a wraith cruiser would be destroyed in one shot from the Asgard beams because it is much smaller than an Aurora". In fact, the scaling done on another thread has put the Wraith cruiser at around 1100 meters. You yourself stated that a Aurora is around 1200 meters long. So, yes, if a cruiser is indeed 1100 meters long, it would be smaller than a Aurora. But no wheres near to the extent your claim depends on.

Furthermore, trying to compare the satellite weapon and the damage it caused is speculative at best. The two technologies are different, and for two reasons, 1.) they came from two different races and 2.) the ambient color of the beam itself. Therefore, your comparison between the two is irrelevant.

So, what we end up with is this. Your size comparison is wrong. Your weapons comparison is irrelevant as they are different technologies from two different races. The first Aurora didn't have it's shields up so the evidence it provides is incomplete. The second Aurora we see hit by the Asgard beams was also being attacked by atleast 1 wraith hive ship, and possibly by darts and F-302's, so the damage done by those beams can't be used as direct evidence to support your claim. Your conclusions are premature and are based on flawed information. However, there are two things I sort of agree with you on, to an extent. One being that the Asgard beams will be effective against the wraith cruisers and will very likely do significant damage. The second being, that the fact that Teyla was on board the cruiser was a factor for that ship surviving, while true from a perspective, it's not quite in the context you are ranting about. It's survival is part of the story and necessary to further that story. What would you have liked, have a main cast member killed off? If yes, why, don't you like Teyla?

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 09:36 PM
^^Even with shield's, i doubt an Aurora could withstand one direct hit, in-fact, i'm confident that the beam weapon would take her shield's out with a single hit.


Why don't they ever fire anti-ship missiles ?
I understand that dart's could intercept them, but there are hardly any around...

Freekzilla
February 24th, 2008, 09:40 PM
And how much bigger was that satellite weapon than what's mounted on the Daedalus?

The satellite is actually quite huge. I've heard estimates range from several hundred meters to half the size of Atlantis. Kinda hard to judge really, as there is little to go on. Either way, it's safe to say that it is not small.

pbutter
February 24th, 2008, 09:43 PM
^^What ?
Where do you get this stuff ?
The satellite is about the size of a hatak, the guy in the puddlejumper said so when he saw it.

February 24th, 2008, 09:50 PM
If they were aiming at the engines, that is way too much power. It would have dissected the ship in half. Which shows that the Asgard beams are not useful for crippling ships, only good for destroying things.

Generally 1 shot kills, however for a Hive (unless it hits a sensitive spot), it will take several hits to take out.

Should have stuck to the railguns. And aim better.

YUP!

Ouroboros
February 24th, 2008, 09:53 PM
They were using rail guns.

See my first post in this thread for my response to this "theory".


Where the hell did yuu get that? Maybe you need to understand what "canon" means. The Repli-Auroras aren't as good as the real thing, but they'd still take out a cruiser with just a few drones.

Don't be silly, repli auroras aren't allowed to have drones anymore. That one that fired a few off in BAMSR (that didn't kill the shrunken hiveship), those were the last ones they had.


And, again, where exactly are you getting this "modern Wraith" tech idea? It was obvious from the beginning that they didn't improve their tech. And it makes sense. They hardly seem the explorer type. They did what they needed to drive their enemy away and then proceeded to eat people.

I got that silly idea from reality. You know the idea that the modern US military might not be all that scared to have to face the dreaded native Americans again.

I was trying to point out that the whole idea that the Wraith tech wouldn't be better after 10,000 years is what is stupid. I know it isn't like that in the show, at least not until this retcon sticks, that's what I'm complaining about. It's stupid that it wouldn't be. I mean ****, 10 THOUSAND years to improve.

That's why I posted about this originally as a joke that anyone who doesn't like the apparent retcon here could at least take comfort in knowing that it probably should have been like this since the begining. I really need to start using smaller words when I post here.

Avenger
February 24th, 2008, 09:58 PM
The satellite is actually quite huge. I've heard estimates range from several hundred meters to half the size of Atlantis. Kinda hard to judge really, as there is little to go on. Either way, it's safe to say that it is not small.

Oh, I know. I was just trying either reddevil or PuddleJumper to admit that comparing the satellite to Asgard beam is irrelevant. They don't want to budge on that point though.

I'd green you on your longer post up there, but I can't right now.

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 10:10 PM
I was trying to point out that the whole idea that the Wraith tech wouldn't be better after 10,000 years is what is stupid. I know it isn't like that in the show, at least not until this retcon sticks, that's what I'm complaining about. It's stupid that it wouldn't be. I mean ****, 10 THOUSAND years to improve.
War and conflict usually drive technological advances. If the Wraith were already masters of their domain with no other threats to challenge them, hybernating for long periods, they probably got complacent and weren't advancing their tech that much or that quickly.

This transcript is from 'Allies' pt 1. Of course, it may have been part of a ruse, the best lies are usually between 2 truths.

McKAY: The organic base of a lot of your technology -- it's, uh, it's quite amazing. Very, um, resilient.

WRAITH: Many of the problems we encounter eventually heal themselves, yes, but there are smaller, more complex issues.

McKAY: Ah. Such as the programming code to make your old ships do new things?

WRAITH: Or bypassing inoperable systems, yes. It has been so long since we have fought a real battle. (It looks smug as it walks away.)

McKAY: Yes, well, I imagine I'd forget a lot in ten thousand years too. (He and Ronon follow after the Wraith.)

WRAITH: Before the civil war, there were Keepers who maintained the entire fleet, but they have made their own alliances.

DEX (insincerely): Sorry about that.

WRAITH: Without your help, this damage may have been irreparable.

Some advances, like making people like Teyla with Wraith DNA, were because of desire, not necessity. Attacks from humans have probably helped progress Wraith tech considerably in 4 years, from the anti-Asgard beaming jammers to creative ways to manipulate stargates [Midway]. As far as we've seen, examples of 10,000 Wraith tech are at least visually similar to current ones.

Freekzilla
February 24th, 2008, 10:38 PM
^^What ?
Where do you get this stuff ?
The satellite is about the size of a hatak, the guy in the puddlejumper said so when he saw it.

Well there has been many discussions about scaling since SGA began. Both here and on other boards. Why?

jonos101
February 25th, 2008, 03:00 AM
I am usually right =)

Damn, it looks like that baby can dissect a Hive! It should not be able to, though.

And about combat capabilities, I never been wrong so far.

the word EGO! comes to mind. "I never been wrong so far" riiiiight. the skys green to

talyn2k1
February 25th, 2008, 04:44 AM
Exactly. You can't explain it with "they were only using railguns" it's just too damn stupid.

"We're being attacked sir!"

"Dur return fire with only the ****tiest weapon we have! We'll be far more likely to die this way! Johnson get down to the hanger bays! Weapons officer, as soon as Johnson gets to the bays you will cease firing the railguns. At this point Johnson will begin to pelt the Wraith ship with stale muffins from the mess hall. If that doesn't get us all killed fast enough for my satisfaction I will then expect everyone to begin throwing their internal organs at the enemy vessel."

Just wait. With all the over the top wanktech they've given Earth now this won't be the last time we see bull**** like this. This is just the teaser preview.

I don't think there are many people on this thread who are denying that the Daedalus *should* have been using the Asgard Beam Weapons from the second the Cruiser dropped out of hyperspace.
But it cannot be denied that the weapons fire we heard up to the point where the beam weapons were fired *was* railgun fire.

I'm not saying its not stupid that they were using railguns rather than just blowing the cruiser to pieces the second they could charge the beam weapons, but I don't see how anyone with the ability to hear can deny that the Daedalus was firing railguns throughout that battle up until the end where they used the beams.

Simple explanation for the beams missing is that they were only trying to skim the engines. They weren't going for a direct hit as that most likely would've decapitated the ship anyway. If they were just trying a glancing blow on the engines, its no wonder they missed, although any gunner worth his wages wouldn't miss by that much!

In both Kindred 1 and Midway there have been some stupid, nay moronic, plot devices that have been used to further the episode despite their obvious idiocy. I've got no problem with PTB maybe overlooking a little something or the introduction of sensible plot devices (aka 'plot holes' to the uninformed), but some of the methods they used to keep the story afloat in the last few episodes were quite idiotic and, in most cases, completely unnecessary.
Worst thing is, I loved Midway and thought Kindred was still a very good episode despite the obvious 'duh-ness'.
I think the only way I can watch them and enjoy repeat viewings is because I know I can vent on the GW forums and be amused by those who get 1 million times more irate about these things than I do, sometimes to the extent where they can't see the obvious.

Ouroboros
February 25th, 2008, 04:45 AM
For the Record yes I'm aware that the show chose to depict the Wraith as not having advanced their tech for 10,000 years and yes I'm aware that you can make excuses to explain why. I've made them before myself.

In reality though you;ve got admit it does seem rather ridiculous when scrutinized. I mean ten thousand years. I think a lot of people don't really appreciate fully just how much time that actually is. Ten thousand years ago there was barely even any human civilization at all on Earth for example. All those ancient civilizations you learned about in school, Egypt, Rome, Greece etc are all younger than the day the Wraith would have all started to do nothing but sit on their asses technologically.

Just look at the differences between WW1 and WW2 or even the start of WW2 and the end. Even doing something ridiculous like comparing 2008 technology to the Roman Empire doesn't even begin to approach the amount of time we're supposed to believe the wraith managed to do nothing at all technologically. They even still use the same ship designs from 10,000 years ago, thats literally worse than triremes in the modern US navy.

If you can't see how that can sound unbelievable and ridiculous now then I don't think there's any more I can add to convince you.

Just to head of the inevitable though before I end this post lets review...

For the Record yes I'm aware that the show chose to depict the Wraith as not having advanced their tech for 10,000 years and yes I'm aware that you can make excuses to explain why. I've made them before myself.

Mister Oragahn
February 25th, 2008, 07:11 AM
Well, reaching a technical plateau isn't too far fetched either.

We just have to pretend that the Wraith had no wish to get better and better tech, just got satisfied with what they had, and since it can grow and regenerate itself to some extent, they just kept a caste of tech savy Wraith just in case.
It's not like they need anything better since they agreed to live through a boring existence and spending most of their time in stasis or so.

There are tribes on Earth which have not tried to get better tools than those used millenia ago, and though they do sometimes wear T-shirts, they're still like people stuck in the past (doesn't mean it's bad either, from a certain point of view).

I can also understand how 100 years of continuous fight and race for technology has been a burden to the Wraith, and how that time of order was nothing more that well deserved retirement and break to them.

Ultimately, when you know you've defeated the Lantians, maybe you don't think you need to develop any better technology, and just get used to what you have now. This tech may even become revered in a kind of way, so grandiose that the Wraith wouldn't even think about changing it.

JSPuddlejumper
February 25th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Ego? Well, like I said I have not been wrong about any ship encounters or combat abilities thus far. You can look up all my threads about ship combat abilities. I have been dead on.

For example: I said by comparing the performance of the Odyssey vs Ori ships, the 304s would own the Aurora's, which they have. It was controversial back then, and I have been proven correct. I have also said the shields of the Aurora are mediocre, which have been proven right once again. Etc and etc.

As for ship scaling.... There is a 'side by side' comparison of the Daedalus versus the Cruiser: Siege Part III, LOOK IT UP. The Cruiser is right on top of the Daedalus! You can clearly see that the Crusier is a little bit 'shorter' than the Daedalus!

Before saying I am wrong, do some research.

Most on this thread agree with me: Daedalus was not firing any beams prior to the 2 that missed, most likely 1 beat would destroy the Cruiser as long as it hit dead on (no glancing blow).

pbutter
February 25th, 2008, 09:36 AM
Well there has been many discussions about scaling since SGA began. Both here and on other boards. Why?

Because they are wrong. The scientist who was in the puddlejumper, after he saw the Satellite, said, "it's about the size of a Gould mothership.

s09119
February 25th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Ego? Well, like I said I have not been wrong about any ship encounters or combat abilities thus far. You can look up all my threads about ship combat abilities. I have been dead on.

For example: I said by comparing the performance of the Odyssey vs Ori ships, the 304s would own the Aurora's, which they have. It was controversial back then, and I have been proven correct. I have also said the shields of the Aurora are mediocre, which have been proven right once again. Etc and etc.

...oh, please. You're still being called an ignorant person in half of those threads, mostly because:

1. JM said that, in response to "why are the Asuran Auroras so weak?"

"They're very good replicas... but they're not the originals.

2. You make rediculous claims with nearly no evidence.

3. You mock the opinions of others and demand responses from people yet ignore half of the posts directed at you.

4. I could go on, but I have other threads to check for responses.




Anywho, I happen to agree with one point of yours here, that being that no beams were fired prior to when we actually saw them.

Avenger
February 25th, 2008, 12:59 PM
Well, reaching a technical plateau isn't too far fetched either.

We just have to pretend that the Wraith had no wish to get better and better tech, just got satisfied with what they had, and since it can grow and regenerate itself to some extent, they just kept a caste of tech savy Wraith just in case.
It's not like they need anything better since they agreed to live through a boring existence and spending most of their time in stasis or so.

There are tribes on Earth which have not tried to get better tools than those used millenia ago, and though they do sometimes wear T-shirts, they're still like people stuck in the past (doesn't mean it's bad either, from a certain point of view).

I can also understand how 100 years of continuous fight and race for technology has been a burden to the Wraith, and how that time of order was nothing more that well deserved retirement and break to them.

Ultimately, when you know you've defeated the Lantians, maybe you don't think you need to develop any better technology, and just get used to what you have now. This tech may even become revered in a kind of way, so grandiose that the Wraith wouldn't even think about changing it.


After the Wraith defeated the Ancients, they didn't have a lot of reason to advance their technology because there weren't a lot of civilizations who could match their technology. Plus, they did a pretty good job of keeping the technology level quite low. And if you take into account that the Wraith were hibernating as well, they didn't have a lot of time to advance.

JSPuddlejumper
February 25th, 2008, 02:42 PM
S09119, you are a fanboy of the Ancients. You find no fault in the Ancients, believe they are uber, their warships (Aurora's) invincible etc and etc. And to try to cover this up, you said you like the Wraith, do get real. Time to come out of the closest.

This is disputed by what is shown on screen. Aurora's getting owned. Ancients not winning any war or conflict.

I however am not fanboy of some (or any) ridiculous fictional 'race'. Be it the Asgard, Ori, Nox, Ancient, Wraith etc and etc.

I base my analysis on facts and what is observed.

Avenger
February 25th, 2008, 02:47 PM
No you don't because if you based your analysis on what you see, you wouldn't be making the claim, though it is likely, that the Asgard beam weapon will shred a Wraith cruiser. And now your sinking to making name calling, calling people fan boys because they can effectively construct an argument that counters yours.

JSPuddlejumper
February 25th, 2008, 02:50 PM
What do we see the Asgard beam do:

1) Shred those massive Ori ships.
2) Shred large Aurora's

Is Wraith armor any special? Lantean satellite, carved up a Hive with uber ease.

Now, why would anyone think Asgard beams will not work on a small Cruiser?

Just needs some simple analysis skills.

JSPuddlejumper
February 25th, 2008, 02:52 PM
"calling people fan boys because they can effectively construct an argument that counters yours"

I just call it the way I see it. Do you really think I am wrong? Just look at what he posts.

However, I bring up + and -'s of all races.

Avenger
February 25th, 2008, 03:01 PM
You fail to acknowledge anything that counters your opinion. You either say that it's absurd or call someone a fan boy. Want me to start calling it as I see it?

s09119
February 25th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Bold:

S09119, you are a fanboy of the Ancients. You find no fault in the Ancients, believe they are uber, their warships (Aurora's) invincible etc and etc. And to try to cover this up, you said you like the Wraith, do get real. Time to come out of the closest.

Alright, I've given a good dozen arguments supporting my ideas, all of which have been well-recieved here... I never said Aurora-class warships are invincible, merely pointed out the facts; a heavily-damaged one took out a hive with ease and withstood several minutes of bombardment by another, and JM's comment (as most everyone has agreed) was inferring that Asuran ships were not as good as the originals.

This is disputed by what is shown on screen. Aurora's getting owned. Ancients not winning any war or conflict.

Why don't you ever listen? The Ancients only fought one war; the one with the Wraith. They didn't fight the Ori because, as I explained above, they didn't want to use their only tactic remaining to silence the Ori, which would involve denying others of free will.

I however am not fanboy of some (or any) ridiculous fictional 'race'. Be it the Asgard, Ori, Nox, Ancient, Wraith etc and etc.

*Sigh*

I base my analysis on facts and what is observed.

As do I...

jonos101
February 25th, 2008, 03:16 PM
...oh, please. You're still being called an ignorant person in half of those threads, mostly because:

1. JM said that, in response to "why are the Asuran Auroras so weak?"


2. You make rediculous claims with nearly no evidence.

3. You mock the opinions of others and demand responses from people yet ignore half of the posts directed at you.

4. I could go on, but I have other threads to check for responses.


Anywho, I happen to agree with one point of yours here, that being that no beams were fired prior to when we actually saw them.

my point exactly. i was just about to post something along those lines

JSPuddlejumper
February 25th, 2008, 03:17 PM
^When they are using common sense and not talkiing bull, sure.

There is no going against the facts that the Aurora's have been stinking up the screen...Fanboys can try to come with excuses.

jonos101
February 25th, 2008, 04:04 PM
^When they are using common sense and not talkiing bull, sure.

There is no going against the facts that the Aurora's have been stinking up the screen...Fanboys can try to come with excuses.

i dont need to make an excuse coz JM said why in his blog. which other people have told you before