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View Full Version : So what exactly was the point of getting to Earth?



jds1982
February 18th, 2008, 05:00 AM
Maybe I'm missing something, but the Wraith plan didn't exactly seem viable. Sure they got to Earth, and maybe established a beachhead but then what? They're gonna conquer six billion people with a cruiser full of Wraith and stunners? The Wraith's only real advantage over Earth is their ships, and they wouldn't have any. Plus they know Earth has weapons that could easily wipe out any beachhead they established, which they were gonna do, although I don't know why, there were like ten Wraith left, and they had control of the iris again. Not to mention it wouldn't be that hard to disable the gate bridge. I don't get it, if this was their actual plan, it was idiotic. Maybe they were trying for something else, maybe disabling the bridge was their actual objective, could this have been a suicide mission? If it was though, why not just send a freaking bomb through?

elbo
February 18th, 2008, 06:56 AM
Maybe I'm missing something, but the Wraith plan didn't exactly seem viable. Sure they got to Earth, and maybe established a beachhead but then what? They're gonna conquer six billion people with a cruiser full of Wraith and stunners? The Wraith's only real advantage over Earth is their ships, and they wouldn't have any. Plus they know Earth has weapons that could easily wipe out any beachhead they established, which they were gonna do, although I don't know why, there were like ten Wraith left, and they had control of the iris again. Not to mention it wouldn't be that hard to disable the gate bridge. I don't get it, if this was their actual plan, it was idiotic. Maybe they were trying for something else, maybe disabling the bridge was their actual objective, could this have been a suicide mission? If it was though, why not just send a freaking bomb through?

Very good observation. I tried for some time to make sense of their actions and no luck. Unless they launch an all out hive attack like they did with Atlantis, they have no chance to get an hold on Earth and they have a lot of tactical informations now to know this. Let's assume that in 'Allies' they lacked our tactical, security defences data. Anyway, any civilasation who reached few bilion people and few thousands years of technological and philosophical evolution is not something you take out with 2 hives or 1-2 thousands drones. I would expected their actions to go toward developing or stealing inter-galactic hyperdrive tech, which i think is their only way to survive.

jdbond
February 18th, 2008, 07:02 AM
I concur. The moment I saw the episode, I was like what the hell wraith are trying to achieve. Their action made no sense unless they were simply trying to send some folks for "lookout" so that later the whole bunch can come.

SoulReaver
February 18th, 2008, 08:10 AM
merely a scouting & reconnaissance mission, most likely

what I found surprising was the DoD's (over)reaction to the invasion - nuke the whole facility ?? what the hell, these are just wraith, not replicators http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/av68.gif

Road Dogg JR
February 18th, 2008, 08:24 AM
Here's what I kinda put together from it

The cruiser was carrying two waves of troopers, a commander and a computer tech, the first wave would come through to take over Midway. They were expecting some loses but not alot, once midway was secured the stun bomb would then be sent through to the SGC. Once the bomb disabled everybody in <x amount> of space (let's just say the whole base), what was then left of the first wave except the commander and computer tech would then be sent through to the SGC and secure the base and feed on anybody who wasn't effected by the bomb (hence why only 5 or so troopers were fed upon). The second wave would then come through to Midway and proceed to the SGC and most likely with the computer tech who would then secure the computers. Once an effective beach head was established, the unconscious personnel rounded up, the commander where then probably call for his hive(s) and then the rest of Earth would've been invaded, this is more then likely where the cloning facility would've came into play.

The only thing they weren't counting on was getting their butts kicked by only two men. But that's just my theory

Dutch_Razor
February 18th, 2008, 12:07 PM
The Wraith don't have very fast hyperdrives, they need to stop often at planets so they can't use their hives to come to Earth, at least that's what I heard from it?

Icarium
February 18th, 2008, 12:42 PM
As far as I remember, they can but they need to do stops because their ships must regenerate. So getting to Earth would take them more time than e.g. Dedalus - more than 3 weeks.

Icarium

Gate-builder
February 18th, 2008, 03:01 PM
At the moment their ships don't have the intergalatic hyperdrives needed to get to earth. And even if they did they would need to make frequent stops to let their ships recover from the radiation of hyperspace.

Lauriel
February 18th, 2008, 03:08 PM
Here's what I kinda put together from it

The cruiser was carrying two waves of troopers, a commander and a computer tech, the first wave would come through to take over Midway. They were expecting some loses but not alot, once midway was secured the stun bomb would then be sent through to the SGC. Once the bomb disabled everybody in <x amount> of space (let's just say the whole base), what was then left of the first wave except the commander and computer tech would then be sent through to the SGC and secure the base and feed on anybody who wasn't effected by the bomb (hence why only 5 or so troopers were fed upon). The second wave would then come through to Midway and proceed to the SGC and most likely with the computer tech who would then secure the computers. Once an effective beach head was established, the unconscious personnel rounded up, the commander where then probably call for his hive(s) and then the rest of Earth would've been invaded, this is more then likely where the cloning facility would've came into play.

The only thing they weren't counting on was getting their butts kicked by only two men. But that's just my theory
I loved this ep, but this was my biggest problem with it as well. I also thought the scenario you have painted here was most likely the goal. However, why were the wraith heading for the surface rather than taking control of the SGC? That part has had me stumped for the last few days. SGC was already in lockdown, so no one could get in. Why weren't they trying to secure a foothold and gain control of the gate, thereby establishing their beachhead?

Also, on Earth's behalf, would a nuclear strike be effective on an underground facility? Wasn't the whole point of underground facilities like Norad and Cheyenne that they were more likely to survive surface attacks? Surely one of the first considerations of the military was making the their facility as invulnerable as possible to this kind of Earth-based strike?

Naonak
February 18th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Also, on Earth's behalf, would a nuclear strike be effective on an underground facility? Wasn't the whole point of underground facilities like Norad and Cheyenne that they were more likely to survive surface attacks? Surely one of the first considerations of the military was making the their facility as invulnerable as possible to this kind of Earth-based strike?
They've mentioned in other eps (like "Reckoning") that they drop the nuke down the missile silo/gateroom. :)

Lauriel
February 18th, 2008, 03:16 PM
They've mentioned in other eps (like "Reckoning") that they drop the nuke down the missile silo/gateroom. :)
Ah, thank you. I must confess my attention wandered through some of the SG-1 eps. *ducks missiles*

YutheGreat
February 18th, 2008, 03:20 PM
The invasion was a bit off. The Wraith was smart enough not to invade the world with kids because they had to take it on foot without guns. How will they take a planet with 6 billion people with just foot soldiers. They needed 12 hiveships to take Atlantis.

After capturing midway I was expecting a hiveship to drop out of hyperspace and occupy/secure it The first wave was there only to incapacitate the personel so they cannot use the self destruct on midway.

Once they fortified midway they get the gate address of Earth and Atlantis from the midway computer. They send their stun bomb on Atlantis then invading it. After Atlantis is secure then you go after Earth. You attack Atlantis first to prevent them from attacking from the Pegasus Gate, like what Shepard did.

Between the SGC and Atlantis the Wraith had a better chance of securing Atlantis, after all the personel was knocked unconscious, because Atlantis is in Pegasus. After All the SGA personnel is knock unconscious a Hiveship could waltz right in unencumbered. They final capture Atlantis Yeah Hey for them.

Now they focus all their efforst to Earth. They should have secured a beachhead in one of the poorer planets in the Milkyway. Set up an out post. Then relay coordinates of the milky way to the entire Wraith fleet. The result Wraith are in the Pegasus Galaxy and Jack O'neil can now command all SG units to fight them, I know Landry is in command of the SGC but I like O'neil more. hehehe.

Lauriel
February 18th, 2008, 03:32 PM
The invasion was a bit off. The Wraith was smart enough not to invade the world with kids because they had to take it on foot without guns. How will they take a planet with 6 billion people with just foot soldiers. They needed 12 hiveships to take Atlantis.

After capturing midway I was expecting a hiveship to drop out of hyperspace and occupy/secure it The first wave was there only to incapacitate the personel so they cannot use the self destruct on midway.

Once they fortified midway they get the gate address of Earth and Atlantis from the midway computer. They send their stun bomb on Atlantis then invading it. After Atlantis is secure then you go after Earth. You attack Atlantis first to prevent them from attacking from the Pegasus Gate, like what Shepard did.

Between the SGC and Atlantis the Wraith had a better chance of securing Atlantis, after all the personel was knocked unconscious, because Atlantis is in Pegasus. After All the SGA personnel is knock unconscious a Hiveship could waltz right in unencumbered. They final capture Atlantis Yeah Hey for them.

Now they focus all their efforst to Earth. They should have secured a beachhead in one of the poorer planets in the Milkyway. Set up an out post. Then relay coordinates of the milky way to the entire Wraith fleet. The result Wraith are in the Pegasus Galaxy and Jack O'neil can now command all SG units to fight them, I know Landry is in command of the SGC but I like O'neil more. hehehe.
Do me a favour? Don't let any wraith near your computer. :p That line of attack makes a lot of sense.

Atlantis Team member
February 18th, 2008, 03:36 PM
merely a scouting & reconnaissance mission, most likely

what I found surprising was the DoD's (over)reaction to the invasion - nuke the whole facility ?? what the hell, these are just wraith, not replicators http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/av68.gif



MY guess is RECON IN FORCE and as for the DOD wanting to destroy the SGC I would think getting a strike force together to retake the base would have been a better move!

Beside that I thought it was a great episode.

Ice Wolf
February 18th, 2008, 03:43 PM
TPTB wanted to destroy the midway station. They then came up with this lameish ill-concieved way of doing it.

Lord batchi ball
February 18th, 2008, 04:07 PM
I figure me missed the real reason the Wraith attacked. Maybe it was to realease a virus or secure some kind of tech or plant a broadcasting beacon. But I think the real reason has yet to be revieled.

And a nuclear hit will destroy the moutain complex. The faculity was built when pinpoint targeting was non exsistant. The idea was to conceal the base as much as possible. Not be able to withstand direct hits.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
February 18th, 2008, 04:11 PM
They're gonna conquer six billion people with a cruiser full of Wraith and stunners? The Wraith's only real advantage over Earth is their ships, and they wouldn't have any.

They could have eventually sent Darts through to Earth, but they would be shot down.


The invasion was a bit off. The Wraith was smart enough not to invade the world with kids because they had to take it on foot without guns. How will they take a planet with 6 billion people with just foot soldiers. They needed 12 hiveships to take Atlantis.

After capturing midway I was expecting a hiveship to drop out of hyperspace and occupy/secure it The first wave was there only to incapacitate the personel so they cannot use the self destruct on midway.

Once they fortified midway they get the gate address of Earth and Atlantis from the midway computer. They send their stun bomb on Atlantis then invading it. After Atlantis is secure then you go after Earth. You attack Atlantis first to prevent them from attacking from the Pegasus Gate, like what Shepard did.

Between the SGC and Atlantis the Wraith had a better chance of securing Atlantis, after all the personel was knocked unconscious, because Atlantis is in Pegasus. After All the SGA personnel is knock unconscious a Hiveship could waltz right in unencumbered. They final capture Atlantis Yeah Hey for them.

Now they focus all their efforst to Earth. They should have secured a beachhead in one of the poorer planets in the Milkyway. Set up an out po t. Then relay coordinates of the milky way to the entire Wraith fleet. The result Wraith are in the Pegasus Galaxy and Jack O'neil can now command all SG units to fight them, I know Landry is in command of the SGC but I like O'neil more. hehehe.

That's a good plan, except that the Wraith possess no intergalactic hyperdrive as far as we know, so their hiveships aren't fast enough to reach Midway or Earth without a journey of, say, years. The void between Pegasus and the Milky Way is much bigger than a galaxy. That's why Sheppard, McKay, Lee, and Kavanaugh couldn't just take their puddle jumper to the nearest gate in the void, it would be too far away.

Any way you look at it, the Wraith plan was pretty much doomed to failure. They must be (a) stupid (b) desperate (c) overconfident or (d) any combination of the above.

Ice Wolf
February 18th, 2008, 04:23 PM
Any way you look at it, the Wraith plan was pretty much doomed to failure. They must be (a) stupid (b) desperate (c) overconfident or (d) any combination of the above.

or (e) poorly written

Lauriel
February 18th, 2008, 04:29 PM
what I found surprising was the DoD's (over)reaction to the invasion - nuke the whole facility ?? what the hell, these are just wraith, not replicators http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/av68.gif
I just had a thought (yes, it did hurt!:p). We didn't hear Coolidge's message. He was panicked, and had very little information himself. Ronon and Te'alc's assessment of the situation went something along the lines of 'there's a lot of them and two of us'. So it's possible he misrepresented the situation to the DoD. Saying something like 'Ronon and Te'alc seem sure they can handle a few Wraith' and 'My God, they've overrun the base, we're doomed!' will have completely different responses from the DoD. My guess is that Coolidge's message sounded more like the latter. :)


I figure me missed the real reason the Wraith attacked. Maybe it was to realease a virus or secure some kind of tech or plant a broadcasting beacon. But I think the real reason has yet to be revieled.
They did say it was to create a beachhead, which automatically implies invasion. However, you'd have to trust the Wraith was giving the honest reason for that to apply. ;) It wouldn't surprise me if you are right, here. Anyway, that's the only info we have to go on so far.


And a nuclear hit will destroy the moutain complex. The faculity was built when pinpoint targeting was non exsistant. The idea was to conceal the base as much as possible. Not be able to withstand direct hits.
Thanks for the explanation.

YutheGreat
February 18th, 2008, 04:46 PM
That's a good plan, except that the Wraith possess no intergalactic hyperdrive as far as we know, so their hiveships aren't fast enough to reach Midway or Earth without a journey of, say, years. The void between Pegasus and the Milky Way is much bigger than a galaxy. That's why Sheppard, McKay, Lee, and Kavanaugh couldn't just take their puddle jumper to the nearest gate in the void, it would be too far away.

Even if they cannot reach earth in this episode after capturing Atlantis they can eventually find a way there. Once Earth looses atlantis they loose their foothold in the Pegasus Galaxy so the Wraith can have complete control over PG. Victory!

BubblingOverWithIdeas
February 18th, 2008, 05:03 PM
or (e) poorly written

That falls under (a) stupid, or possibly (a-addendum) lazy.


Even if they cannot reach earth in this episode after capturing Atlantis they can eventually find a way there. Once Earth looses atlantis they loose their foothold in the Pegasus Galaxy so the Wraith can have complete control over PG. Victory!

I missed that part. Good point, these Wraith know where Atlantis is, know that it's occupied, and are willing to attack its people. Why don't they do so directly?

Road Dogg JR
February 18th, 2008, 06:09 PM
I loved this ep, but this was my biggest problem with it as well. I also thought the scenario you have painted here was most likely the goal. However, why were the wraith heading for the surface rather than taking control of the SGC? That part has had me stumped for the last few days. SGC was already in lockdown, so no one could get in. Why weren't they trying to secure a foothold and gain control of the gate, thereby establishing their beachhead?



Kinda simple at least IMO, their info on the SGC was limited, they just knew Midway would take them to Earth, the first wave was probably given orders to secure the base and proceed outside to guard the base. If anything they thought it was a one story base and wouldn't be hard to get out of, not at the bottom of the mountain.

Lauriel
February 18th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Kinda simple at least IMO, their info on the SGC was limited, they just knew Midway would take them to Earth, the first wave was probably given orders to secure the base and proceed outside to guard the base. If anything they thought it was a one story base and wouldn't be hard to get out of, not at the bottom of the mountain.

Yeah, perhaps. But if they didn't guard and hold the gate, and left enemies behind to wake up from the stun blast and block the other's advance and their own retreat, then they are at the least as guilty of the same arrogance people are accusing Earth of having for not installing shields. As was proved, there was no guarantee that thier troops would be able to immediately follow them. In order to establish the beachhead, they would need to start with the gate and then consolidate the base. They didn't do that, rather headed straight for the nearest exit. I see your point though, and I think it's the most likely possibility.

Xaeden
February 18th, 2008, 06:42 PM
Kinda simple at least IMO, their info on the SGC was limited, they just knew Midway would take them to Earth, the first wave was probably given orders to secure the base and proceed outside to guard the base. If anything they thought it was a one story base and wouldn't be hard to get out of, not at the bottom of the mountain.

The problem is that the Wraith get nothing out of reaching the surface. They cannot conquer the planet on foot and stepping out of the base only serves to alert the military that they're there. Which would've resulted in the base being destroyed (thus cutting off any further waves). Followed by the Daedalus flying to another planet and uploading the macro to dial the Midway station so they could confirm that Wraith got there through Midway and then taking that out and after that, a few days of chasing the Wraith (that reached the surface before the bombing) through the woods. There was no way this could've gone any other way then them all dying within a short amount of time. They couldn't have established a beachhead, they couldn't have gotten enough food to make it worthwhile given their loses, and their actions were counterproductive to getting information - If that was their plan they should've secured the base so nobody waking up could alert the military to their being there and they shouldn't have tried to get to the surface before the scientist got through. Time was against them as the longer they were there the more likely their presence would be detected, but their only goal was to get out of the base which is a futile exercise given Earth's level of military strength. They could've sent every Wraith footsoldier from the entire Pegasus galaxy (which wouldn't have happened anyway as it was just a matter of time before the base was bombed and further waves were cut off) and they still would've been marching to their deaths.

2ndgenerationalteran
February 19th, 2008, 12:22 AM
I was thinking it was an initial beach head but they would move to some other MW planet regain stength and terrorize until they are strong enough to take on earth. That or hide in the mountains hunting hunters and campers.

jonos101
February 19th, 2008, 02:58 AM
Even if they cannot reach earth in this episode after capturing Atlantis they can eventually find a way there. Once Earth looses atlantis they loose their foothold in the Pegasus Galaxy so the Wraith can have complete control over PG. Victory!

just coz we dont have atlantis dosent mean we dont have a foothold in the galaxy, we could use the alpha siteor set up bas on another planet

YutheGreat
February 19th, 2008, 05:29 AM
just coz we dont have atlantis dosent mean we dont have a foothold in the galaxy, we could use the alpha siteor set up bas on another planet

True but it is nowhere in the level of Atlantis. Further, it will be hard to supply it. If I blow up midway. The only supply line will be the 2 304s and that takes weeks, since Atlantis has the only gate back to Milky way. Earth will have to send troops with no way of getting back.

Actually, it is more strategic to leave Earth alone for the time being because a couple of hiveships are no match for all the forces in the Milkyway. So better strategy is after claiming Atlantis. I will use Ancient tech to modify my hive. I will personally look for Todd and Michael and recruit their armies to my warriors. They will serve as my leiutenants in my new order.

I will go after every Wraith faction and unite them under my banner. After the Wraith are all under my command I go after the Travellers.

After Larrin is one of my worshippers. I will go after the Genii.

After a few months, Pegasus will be my dominion. This the point I go after Earth.

artbrann
February 19th, 2008, 10:10 AM
I would send thru a long range subspace transmitter, smallish one, tell the troops to get to the surface and drop it somewhere discreet

then look for the signal on the looong range scanners
point the ships so they approach in a V like shape, so as they don't run into the 304s while in route, then put most of the crew to sleep, with minimal crew to do the hyperspace hops and wake up the rest of the crew once they were in the galaxy

Xaeden
February 19th, 2008, 10:52 AM
I would send thru a long range subspace transmitter, smallish one, tell the troops to get to the surface and drop it somewhere discreet

then look for the signal on the looong range scanners
point the ships so they approach in a V like shape, so as they don't run into the 304s while in route, then put most of the crew to sleep, with minimal crew to do the hyperspace hops and wake up the rest of the crew once they were in the galaxy

A transmitter wouldn't work all the way in the Pegasus galaxy, but it's not necessary anyway. If they want the location of Earth all they need is the gate address. But that too is useless. It would take them untold decades
to reach Earth with their current hyperspace capabilities. By the time they got there Earth's fleet and defensives would be extensive. The Wraith wouldn't stand a chance and I don't see how their flight formation prevents them from running into 304s. Earth could easily track them and with their constant need to drop out of hyperspace Earth could keep sending forces to pick off the Wraith ships near the edge of a larger fleet and quickly jump into hyperspace so this tactic could be repeated a few days later when they have to drop out again. The only way an invasion into the Milky Way is possible is if they can first upgrade their hyperdrive engines.

Ed
February 19th, 2008, 12:09 PM
they could of opened the silo and deployed darts but they were going in completly blind knowing nothing of the SGC or earths military

what would be a good twist is that some of the wraith dialed out from SGC to another MW world

and despite midway being destroyed both gates are still there so it would still work by jumper or dart

wise one
February 19th, 2008, 12:28 PM
i dont think the wrqaith know how many humans occupy earth and their knowledge of the base was very limited just miday and codes and thats about it

well atleast area 51 have alot of wraith bodies to study and maybe a few alive ones that tealc zatted

Mister Oragahn
February 19th, 2008, 02:53 PM
So what exactly was the point of getting to Earth?

Make some pointless and mindless action episode full of clich├ęs, predictable outcomes and utmost stupid decisions.
Now, the writers are 200% commited to SGA, in order to provide the best scripts ever!

Stay tuned to get more of your intelligence insulted.

JSPuddlejumper
February 19th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Isn't it obvious? So they could be bi tch slapped by Teal'C and Ronon.

Their 'plan' was laughable. Hell, even 12 Hives would have a great deal of trouble conquering Earth. The Antartic chair can launch 1000's of drones and 304's win own the Hives.

Girlbot
February 19th, 2008, 04:04 PM
Buffet!!!!!!!

PG15
February 19th, 2008, 05:46 PM
Isn't it obvious? So they could be bi tch slapped by Teal'C and Ronon.

Their 'plan' was laughable. Hell, even 12 Hives would have a great deal of trouble conquering Earth. The Antartic chair can launch 1000's of drones and 304's win own the Hives.

Trying to invade from orbit is very different from trying to invade from the inside out.

Girlbot
February 19th, 2008, 05:49 PM
Trying to invade from orbit is very different from trying to invade from the inside out.
Is that like trying to find your way out of a brown paper bag?

PG15
February 19th, 2008, 05:59 PM
Yes. Yes it is.

jds1982
February 19th, 2008, 06:00 PM
Trying to invade from orbit is very different from trying to invade from the inside out.

Exactly, even if they managed to bring more troops to Earth through the stargate, so what? They'd be wiped out quickly because they not only came through a strategic bottleneck, they walked into a big hole in the ground that keeps them pretty well contained. Invading a technologically advanced civilization through a stargate is just suicide. I would have bought the episode more if they were just supposed to be a raiding party looking for information on technology and defenses, or if they were trying to invade Atlantis by way of the Midway station.

Girlbot
February 19th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Exactly, even if they managed to bring more troops to Earth through the stargate, so what? They'd be wiped out quickly because they not only came through a strategic bottleneck, they walked into a big hole in the ground that keeps them pretty well contained. Invading a technologically advanced civilization through a stargate is just suicide. I would have bought the episode more if they were just supposed to be a raiding party looking for information on technology and defenses, or if they were trying to invade Atlantis by way of the Midway station.
And notwithstanding, they do stick out like a sore thumb. so even if the got topside, they might just have a problem fitting in. Unless of course they happened to find some of those buttons that SG1 had to change themselves into another form

Lauriel
February 19th, 2008, 06:25 PM
Exactly, even if they managed to bring more troops to Earth through the stargate, so what? They'd be wiped out quickly because they not only came through a strategic bottleneck, they walked into a big hole in the ground that keeps them pretty well contained. Invading a technologically advanced civilization through a stargate is just suicide. I would have bought the episode more if they were just supposed to be a raiding party looking for information on technology and defenses, or if they were trying to invade Atlantis by way of the Midway station.

However, from their point of view, they had no way of assessing the terrain they were about to invade. That's obviously preferable, but in this case, if they had a way of getting there to plan the attack to suit the territory, they wouldn't have had to enter in this fashion anyway. The needs dictated the strategy- ie: this was the only way they could get to Earth, not the most preferable.

If they had done an reco raid, they would have given away the element of surprise, and would lose their only means of getting to Earth to attack. It was an all or nothing strategy.

trombonist15
February 19th, 2008, 09:43 PM
A bunker buster could easily destroy the SGC.

Pheonix Commander
February 20th, 2008, 12:03 AM
It would make sense that the Wraith were under prepared. The are used to being the top of the food chain and arrogant like the goa'uld. It would have been some time since they were last challenged, probably the Ancients and they win that fight. The push to earth smelt a little of desperation. I think the recent battles against us and the replicators have hurt morale and unity in the ranks of the Wraith. It may not have been the general consensus amongst the Wraith to attack earth, which it would seem would be the right option, but rogue elements may exist - and i think these Wraith may have been some - and they could have just been on a mad power grab that ultimately failed. It wouldn't be the first ever poor military decision made by anyone I'm sure. :ronan::tealc:

Gate-builder
February 20th, 2008, 03:36 AM
If Ronon and Teal'c hadn't turned up the Wraith could have caused some serious strife. For example they could have massed enough troops at the SGC then invaded Atlantis via the SGC Stargate. They could have hacked the IDC like they did on Midway.

They could have found information on intergalactic hyperdrives so they could upgrade their ships and send them to Earth.

They could have taken all the gate addresses from the dialing computer and invaded other planets in the MW, either directly from Earth or from Midway.

The list goes on. It seemed odd to me that the Wraith didn't seem to have much of a plan about what to do after they got to the SGC

Icarium
February 20th, 2008, 04:37 AM
It would make sense that the Wraith were under prepared. The are used to being the top of the food chain and arrogant like the goa'uld. It would have been some time since they were last challenged, probably the Ancients and they win that fight. The push to earth smelt a little of desperation. I think the recent battles against us and the replicators have hurt morale and unity in the ranks of the Wraith. It may not have been the general consensus amongst the Wraith to attack earth, which it would seem would be the right option, but rogue elements may exist - and i think these Wraith may have been some - and they could have just been on a mad power grab that ultimately failed. It wouldn't be the first ever poor military decision made by anyone I'm sure. :ronan::tealc:

For sure it had nothing to do with consensus. The Wraith are divided and basically it seems they have a race of some kind. The first who reaches Earth will have rich food supply and can destroy all enemies (both Lanteans and Wraith). At least it is what they believe. I don't think we can talk about rouge groups because each group acts fot its own sake.
I agree with the claim that they are used to being the superior force in the galaxy and that they underestimate humans on Earth.

Icarium

Icarium
February 20th, 2008, 04:50 AM
If Ronon and Teal'c hadn't turned up the Wraith could have caused some serious strife. For example they could have massed enough troops at the SGC then invaded Atlantis via the SGC Stargate. They could have hacked the IDC like they did on Midway.
They could have found information on intergalactic hyperdrives so they could upgrade their ships and send them to Earth.
They could have taken all the gate addresses from the dialing computer and invaded other planets in the MW, either directly from Earth or from Midway.
The list goes on. It seemed odd to me that the Wraith didn't seem to have much of a plan about what to do after they got to the SGC

Well, I don't think they could because they didn't seem interested in doing so. Their aim was to reach the surface and I think we can agree that it wouldn't help them in any way. I agree about what they could have done but they didn't care about obtaining any info from the computers (didn't send even one scientist or commander to do so). When Ronon and Teal'c were finishing the last Wraiths near the lift, some people already started to recover from stunnig.The Wraith could kill more people in the base but they couldn't threaten the safety of the Earth. As Pheonix Commander mentioned above, till now Wraith were the top of everything. Their victories were rather easy and they did not encounter any serious resistance. That could be the reason for the lack of a plan.

Icarium

sg1adam
February 20th, 2008, 05:06 AM
We may never know fully the reason behind the attack, we can only speculate upon it. I personally think that it was a good episode, and I also feal that picking at the little plot holes and ripping it apart achives nothing at all.

We don't know (yet), how extensive the stun bomb range was, it might have been a few kilometers, and for anybody says, "I know", or "it can't have been that great a range", like I said, we don't know because it wasn't revealed. Perhaps it's range was designed to be a couple of kilometers, so as to render everyone with eyesight unconscious to make the invasion go smoother INITIALLY.

Only time will tell.

Lauriel
February 20th, 2008, 05:11 AM
We may never know fully the reason behind the attack, we can only speculate upon it. I personally think that it was a good episode, and I also feal that picking at the little plot holes and ripping it apart achives nothing at all.

We don't know (yet), how extensive the stun bomb range was, it might have been a few kilometers, and for anybody says, "I know", or "it can't have been that great a range", like I said, we don't know because it wasn't revealed. Perhaps it's range was designed to be a couple of kilometers, so as to render everyone with eyesight unconscious to make the invasion go smoother INITIALLY.

Only time will tell.

We're not exactly picking apart a plot hole. That is an overly used term. We are discussing an aspect within the episode. Why did they react the way they did? For starters, they had no possible way of having any information on the land they were invading. What would you do if you were in their situation? We're interested in this aspect, that's all. As you pointed out, there were many things we don't know (and thus enjoy speculating:)) and hopefully more will be revealed at a later date. In the meantime, what the hell did the SGC do with the stunned wraith?;):)

Icarium
February 20th, 2008, 05:27 AM
We may never know fully the reason behind the attack, we can only speculate upon it. I personally think that it was a good episode, and I also feal that picking at the little plot holes and ripping it apart achives nothing at all.

We don't know (yet), how extensive the stun bomb range was, it might have been a few kilometers, and for anybody says, "I know", or "it can't have been that great a range", like I said, we don't know because it wasn't revealed. Perhaps it's range was designed to be a couple of kilometers, so as to render everyone with eyesight unconscious to make the invasion go smoother INITIALLY.

Only time will tell.

I liked the episode but I'm curious what could be the reason of the Wraith acting that way and not the other and I want to know what other people think about it. 'Only time will tell' attitude won't exactly help and does not encourage any discussion.


We're not exactly picking apart a plot hole. That is an overly used term. We are discussing an aspect within the episode. Why did they react the way they did? For starters, they had no possible way of having any information on the land they were invading. What would you do if you were in their situation? We're interested in this aspect, that's all. As you pointed out, there were many things we don't know (and thus enjoy speculating:)) and hopefully more will be revealed at a later date.

Thank you for saying that :)



In the meantime, what the hell did the SGC do with the stunned Wraith?;):)

I think they were finished off later, maybe some were taken for study (e.g. Area 51?) And we have the bomb now, so maybe some counter measures may be designed :)

Icarium

jds1982
February 20th, 2008, 05:46 AM
However, from their point of view, they had no way of assessing the terrain they were about to invade. That's obviously preferable, but in this case, if they had a way of getting there to plan the attack to suit the territory, they wouldn't have had to enter in this fashion anyway. The needs dictated the strategy- ie: this was the only way they could get to Earth, not the most preferable.

If they had done an reco raid, they would have given away the element of surprise, and would lose their only means of getting to Earth to attack. It was an all or nothing strategy.

The Wraith have known for a long time, ever since Rising in fact, that Earth is heavily populated, heck that's the reason they're all awake. They know that Earth's ground forces have defeated them in the past, and they know Earth has nuclear weapons. So they should know that Earth would be an impossible nut to crack with only groundforces. Unless of course the Wraith are suffering from collective Alzheimer's.

jasminaGo
February 20th, 2008, 06:14 AM
I know exactly what the Wraith were doing on Earth, a can explain why they didn't care much about securing the GateRoom, sorry "The Embarkation Room" or the Control Room or why they didn't try to get some kind of information.

I know exactly why their only goal seemed to be getting out of the mountain :mckayanime18:

They wanted to get to Minnesota, and capture O'Neill's cabin :jack_new_anime07:

:jack_new_anime06:

JSPuddlejumper
February 20th, 2008, 06:23 AM
The Odyssey can probably take on 5-6 Hives.

Each Daedalus class battlecruiser can take on 2-3 Hives.

Probably 4 ships Earth has by now. Lowest estimate 3*2+5=11 Hives. Antartic chair can probably take out 10 Hives, it can fire 1000's drones at once, powered by a ZPM. Antartic chair destroyed Annubis Super Ha'tak and 40 Ha'tak fleet!

11+10=21 Hives.

So to take Earth, they are going to need over 20 Hives...

Wraith had 62 Hives, Earth destroyed like 17, Asurans at least 20...So only 25Hives left. No way can they launch a successful attack on Earth, especially since the Wraith are so fractured right now.

This is forgetting Jaffa Ha'taks and Ori ships.

Lythisrose
February 20th, 2008, 08:23 AM
So what exactly was the point of getting to Earth?

They wanted to go to Disneyland! (sorry):o

The.Road.Not.Taken
February 20th, 2008, 08:25 AM
So what exactly was the point of getting to Earth?

They wanted to go to Disneyland! (sorry):o

the point they wanted to to earth is because they are cool lol:D

dhsuperman
February 20th, 2008, 09:23 AM
I have a general theory as to the reason for attacking SGC.
It is very likely that this group of wraith were a rogue group that are not acting under the collective body of the wraith. We know very well that the wraith have been divided into factions all thanks to the tari. It was hinted that they got their information from Todd, though a firm connection is not certain yet. It could be that during his time on atlantis, Todd found something on the computers, something of extreme interest that would warrant sending a strike force through midway to the SGC if only to lead to their deaths.
My theory is that the plan to get to the surface was merely a cover to the real plan. I think that something else happened that we are not supposed to know about yet. I think the wraith obtained something, whether it be information, plans, or an object, and then quickly gated out while teal'c and ronon were eradicating the wraith. So what i'm saying is that it could be that something bigger is at work here that will surface later on.

Xaeden
February 20th, 2008, 09:29 AM
The Odyssey can probably take on 5-6 Hives.

Each Daedalus class battlecruiser can take on 2-3 Hives.

Probably 4 ships Earth has by now. Lowest estimate 3*2+5=11 Hives. Antartic chair can probably take out 10 Hives, it can fire 1000's drones at once, powered by a ZPM. Antartic chair destroyed Annubis Super Ha'tak and 40 Ha'tak fleet!

11+10=21 Hives.

So to take Earth, they are going to need over 20 Hives...

Wraith had 62 Hives, Earth destroyed like 17, Asurans at least 20...So only 25Hives left. No way can they launch a successful attack on Earth, especially since the Wraith are so fractured right now.

This is forgetting Jaffa Ha'taks and Ori ships.

Well I'm sure they have more 25 Hives. There was never an actual starting number for us to work with. We were just told that Mckay was able to detect "at least" 60 so there could've be a lot more than that. Meanwhile Cruisers are quite formitable in and of themselves.

But attacking Earth is near impossible at the moment. Earth has three plot points protecting it from a Wraith invasion. The first is the tainted ZPM. If the Wraith are coming in one large fleet they could meet it at one of its stop points and utilize it and a cloaked jumper to destroy them all (if the Wraith aren't coming in one large fleet it gives 304s time to do hit and run tactics all the way back to Earth). The second is Merlin's device. As long as Earth didn't lose one of its two ZPMs or as long as its possible for Atlantis to get its ZPM to Earth ahead of a fleet, the Wraith will find nothing there. The third is the outpost. Not only can it launch whatever number of drones its currently stocked with it, but Atlantis could send its stockpile over to Earth and they could strip the Tria of drones if they have not already, allowing it to do a massive amount of damage to any fleet (more so than you figured above - I counted back in Travellers and as memory serves they only needed 30 drones to take out that Cruiser).

Secondary to all this, I think Earth ships can do more damage than you give them credit for and you're right Bra'tac might be able to get some motherships involved especially if he convinces them the rest of the Milky Way is next. Then there's little things like how many 302s are currently stationed on Earth. They can do a lot of damage in and of themselves as seen by how Sheppard was able to take out the hyperdrive engines of that one Hive with his 302, they just have to fight their way through darts first. On top of that, Earth has a Goa'uld bomber, (that "probably" has been repaired by now) some cargo ships, and Atlantis could supply it with jumpers. The Cargo ships and jumpers could be used to exploit the Wraith's lack of shields by sending pilots off to suicide missions against the Hives. If all these things (plus the outpost) come together just right they should be able to force a Wraith retreat even if they cannot win against the Wraith being all in. Earth would suffer quite a bit though, especially in the aftermath with all those darts left behind and trying to chase them down while they find ways to do the most damage possible since they're trapped and aren't trained to die quietly.

But, the real problem would be if those ZPMs weren't destroyed in Spoilers of War. If the Wraith rebuild that facility and start using untold numbers of Wraith warriors to build more ships and to use themselves as food...Then they later develop inter-galactic hyperdrive engines, Earth is going to badly need Merlin's device up and running.

Icarium
February 20th, 2008, 10:30 AM
My theory is that the plan to get to the surface was merely a cover to the real plan. I think that something else happened that we are not supposed to know about yet. I think the wraith obtained something, whether it be information, plans, or an object, and then quickly gated out while teal'c and ronon were eradicating the wraith. So what i'm saying is that it could be that something bigger is at work here that will surface later on.

Certainly we cannot exclude this possibility. Maybe there's a reason why they sent cannon fodder only. However, I think it is more likely that they hid something in SGC that is supposed to help in another attack or gather info rather than that they obtained anything. After all, they would have to go back through Midway and it seems unlikely.

BTW, I see it's your first post. Welcome to the forum :)

Icarium

Jeffala
February 20th, 2008, 10:52 AM
merely a scouting & reconnaissance mission, most likely

Either that or a midnight snack.


what I found surprising was the DoD's (over)reaction to the invasion - nuke the whole facility ?? what the hell, these are just wraith, not replicators

Take into account the report that the idiot IOA rep gave them. Who knows what kind of over-blown story he sold them.

Integrabyte
February 20th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Cookies ;)

SoulReaver
February 20th, 2008, 06:22 PM
Either that or a midnight snack.plenty of these back home, unless they thought a change of galaxy would make for a different taste

also they had no way of knowing the time on earth

IMForeman
February 20th, 2008, 06:35 PM
They wanted to see how Single Female Lawyer ended. Their verdict: "good, but not great."

Lauriel
February 21st, 2008, 12:07 AM
The Wraith have known for a long time, ever since Rising in fact, that Earth is heavily populated, heck that's the reason they're all awake. They know that Earth's ground forces have defeated them in the past, and they know Earth has nuclear weapons. So they should know that Earth would be an impossible nut to crack with only groundforces. Unless of course the Wraith are suffering from collective Alzheimer's.
But once they've secured the 'gate, they can send through unlimited troups, assuming (as seems to be the case) that they are the same ones involved in the cloning facility. Just because that facility was destroyed doesn't mean that the technology to create it was, nor that there may be more out there.




Wraith had 62 Hives, Earth destroyed like 17, Asurans at least 20...So only 25Hives left. No way can they launch a successful attack on Earth, especially since the Wraith are so fractured right now.
Hmm, interesting. I wonder how they make more ships? The cloning techniques brings an uncertainty factor in to this as well, since the ships are -darn, forget the word, half tech, half organic. Bloody memory. :(


I have a general theory as to the reason for attacking SGC.
It is very likely that this group of wraith were a rogue group that are not acting under the collective body of the wraith. We know very well that the wraith have been divided into factions all thanks to the tari. It was hinted that they got their information from Todd, though a firm connection is not certain yet. It could be that during his time on atlantis, Todd found something on the computers, something of extreme interest that would warrant sending a strike force through midway to the SGC if only to lead to their deaths.
My theory is that the plan to get to the surface was merely a cover to the real plan. I think that something else happened that we are not supposed to know about yet. I think the wraith obtained something, whether it be information, plans, or an object, and then quickly gated out while teal'c and ronon were eradicating the wraith. So what i'm saying is that it could be that something bigger is at work here that will surface later on.
Wow, I like that. Lots of intrigue and interesting stuff to happen later on, if that's the case. :):)

jds1982
February 21st, 2008, 01:15 PM
But once they've secured the 'gate, they can send through unlimited troups, assuming (as seems to be the case) that they are the same ones involved in the cloning facility. Just because that facility was destroyed doesn't mean that the technology to create it was, nor that there may be more out there.


No they can't. They are going to be limited by how many troops thay can send through the gate at one time, and granted if they have many of them stored in a dart's culling beam buffer they could bring a lot of them, but it's not unlimited. They are going to be limited in their points of exit from the base, which limits the number of troops they can send out to engage the enemy. I don't know if you've seen 300, but if you have, you know that nearly unlimited troops don't mean squat if you can only use a small portion of them at one time. If things get to the point where ground troops can no longer handle the incursion, Cheyenne mountain would be destroyed by a nuclear strike. So there's be lots of dead Wraith and any others to be sent through the stargate would be walking into...well the irradiated remains of a mountain. However I imagine that before that ever happened, Earth would send a 304 to knock one of the gates in the gate bridge out of place, and thereby ending their threat to Earth. The Wraith only had one way to Earth, and it was not only easily defended against, but easily disabled. There is no "securing the gate" against a nuclear strike.

rarocks24
February 21st, 2008, 02:26 PM
But once they've secured the 'gate, they can send through unlimited troups, assuming (as seems to be the case) that they are the same ones involved in the cloning facility. Just because that facility was destroyed doesn't mean that the technology to create it was, nor that there may be more out there.

Hmm, that's even assuming they can recover the ZPMs from the old outpost, which is doubtful.


Hmm, interesting. I wonder how they make more ships? The cloning techniques brings an uncertainty factor in to this as well, since the ships are -darn, forget the word, half tech, half organic. Bloody memory. :(

Just because a ship is made out of an organic material doesn't mean that it was grown like a tree. There's a mechanical superstructure more than likely built separate, and then the Wraith developed a group of organisms that they use for their organic hulls, corridors, etc.

garhkal
February 21st, 2008, 02:42 PM
plenty of these back home, unless they thought a change of galaxy would make for a different taste

also they had no way of knowing the time on earth

Perhaps they gain some knowledge off of those they feed from, and though if they fed off of earth humans they could learn some good info..

rarocks24
February 21st, 2008, 02:47 PM
Perhaps they gain some knowledge off of those they feed from, and though if they fed off of earth humans they could learn some good info..

Whilst not impossible, highly unlikely because first off, the Wraith wouldn't care for such information, so they wouldn't be looking for it, or even know of the ability. Second off, it goes against everything we already know about the Wraith and the feeding process. No Wraith has ever learned anything from feeding. Feeding as a form of torture is used to extract information VERBALLY, but just slamming their palms against a human and extracting information is bogus. The Wraith Queen would have just fed on Sheppard to learn what she needed to know in The Hive/SoW instead of projecting mental images of a perhaps sexual nature? Not to mention ask him about the ship.

Lauriel
February 21st, 2008, 04:48 PM
No they can't. They are going to be limited by how many troops thay can send through the gate at one time, and granted if they have many of them stored in a dart's culling beam buffer they could bring a lot of them, but it's not unlimited. They are going to be limited in their points of exit from the base, which limits the number of troops they can send out to engage the enemy. I don't know if you've seen 300, but if you have, you know that nearly unlimited troops don't mean squat if you can only use a small portion of them at one time. If things get to the point where ground troops can no longer handle the incursion, Cheyenne mountain would be destroyed by a nuclear strike. So there's be lots of dead Wraith and any others to be sent through the stargate would be walking into...well the irradiated remains of a mountain. However I imagine that before that ever happened, Earth would send a 304 to knock one of the gates in the gate bridge out of place, and thereby ending their threat to Earth. The Wraith only had one way to Earth, and it was not only easily defended against, but easily disabled. There is no "securing the gate" against a nuclear strike.
Yeah, you've got a point there. Still, the Wraith were literally going in blind. They don't know (to our knowledge) the layout or defence capabilities of Earth. They must have decided it was worth the risk, and the ability to send more troops through once the gate was secure would have been a large factor in thier plans. Hence the beachhead concept. I should have written 'from a Wraith POV' in my above post though. :)


Just because a ship is made out of an organic material doesn't mean that it was grown like a tree. There's a mechanical superstructure more than likely built separate, and then the Wraith developed a group of organisms that they use for their organic hulls, corridors, etc.
Thanks for the answer. :):)

Integrabyte
February 22nd, 2008, 12:21 AM
Mitchell's brownies were so delicious that the Wraith had to get some ;)

jds1982
February 22nd, 2008, 05:09 AM
Yeah, you've got a point there. Still, the Wraith were literally going in blind. They don't know (to our knowledge) the layout or defence capabilities of Earth. They must have decided it was worth the risk, and the ability to send more troops through once the gate was secure would have been a large factor in thier plans. Hence the beachhead concept. I should have written 'from a Wraith POV' in my above post though. :)

Here's the thing, it's a bad plan, even from..especially from a Wraith POV. It was destined to fail and accomplish nothing other than the destruction of Midway, which was not their goal. The Wraith had to realize it couldn't work, unless their terribly stupid, which while I hope they're not,more and more they appear to be. So their horrible plan is either the case of bad writing (most likely), or they were there for something besides their stated intentions (probably not). Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the episode, I just don't think the Wraith's plan made any sense.

Jeffala
February 22nd, 2008, 08:15 AM
Mitchell's brownies were so delicious that the Wraith had to get some ;)

I'm trying to figure out if this is a double entendre or if brownies really are brownies...


;)

Darkdreams
February 22nd, 2008, 12:17 PM
Everyone knows that they are only here for the Tacos, Taco Bell tacos will help sustain the wraith so they dont have to rely on humans anymore

JSPuddlejumper
February 22nd, 2008, 06:34 PM
Currently, Antartic chair has 1000s of drones, restocked from the other Atlantis city ship run by the blue bloods. Taking out 10 Hives, that was a definite low ball on my part. Conceivably, it could probably take out 50+ Hives before it runs out of drones. The Hives (all Wraith tech) is very suspectible to drones, almost like Ha'taks.

I was trying to point out that at a minimum, Earth can defeat a force of 20 Hives. 10 by the drone chair, 10 by the 4 304's.


Probably at maximum close to 100 Hives by itself without calling in outside help.

It is inconveiable that the Wraith will ever have remotely close to that due to lack of feeding stock in Pegasus. The 10's of millions of clones built by say ZPMs will turn on each other due to starvation very quickly if they remain active...When they fought the Ancients, the galaxy was full of cows, uhh, humans to feed off of.

"But, the real problem would be if those ZPMs weren't destroyed in Spoilers of War. If the Wraith rebuild that facility and start using untold numbers of Wraith warriors to build more ships and to use themselves as food...Then they later develop inter-galactic hyperdrive engines, Earth is going to badly need Merlin's device up and running."

A 304 will be built at least every 6 months I would think, if Earth has any brains. Earth can call in help from the Jaffa, and the Ori (would completely own the Wraith).

When the Wraith were fighting the Ancients, the Ancients had no powerful allies to help them, and the 304s > Auroras.

Integrabyte
February 23rd, 2008, 02:27 AM
So many pages and we do not want to admit that it was one of the most pointless things in SGA :P

Girlbot
February 26th, 2008, 07:07 AM
So many pages and we do not want to admit that it was one of the most pointless things in SGA :P
PLOT HOLE

BloomGate
February 26th, 2008, 08:17 AM
I think that the Wraith's plan was reasonable. I see their plan being as follows:

1. They take control of Midway - and hold it. This was the biggie. I don't see how the Wraith would think it unreasonable that taking over Midway and holding it until an Earth ship showed up would be impossible.

2. Send recon to Earth - There they wouldn't expect to hold it indefinitely, but hopefully long enough to get some gate addresses of other planets in the MW. The key is that they hope to get in and out somewhat quickly.

3. Retreat from Earth to their own "Alpha Site" in the MW. They could then send more troops/supplies via the Midway station. They probably had an estimate on how long before an Eath ship could reach Midway (a week at least?) and would have that long to send more troops/supplies to their Alpha site.

4. If they had 2 ZPMs, they could setup direct PG/MW transport via the system after Midway was destroyed.

Another main complaint that I see repeatedly in this thread is about the Wraith looking for exits once at the SGC. What if they weren't looking for exits, but looking for entrances so they can hold their position for awhile?

I see that as a reasonable plan. I think it probably would have worked had it not been for Ronan and Teal'c.

Girlbot
February 26th, 2008, 09:16 AM
OK but they underestimated the fact that the SGC and Midway would actually sacrifice themselves in a self destruct. Wraith aren't all that self sacrificing.

Lauriel
February 26th, 2008, 10:05 PM
OK but they underestimated the fact that the SGC and Midway would actually sacrifice themselves in a self destruct. Wraith aren't all that self sacrificing.

Since some of them carry self-destruct style explosions in their armour, I'd have to disagree. While the sentiment might not be equal, they are willing to blow themselves up to take an enemy with them. That's essentially what the SGC had planned.

nx01a
February 26th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Except the SGC's nuke option was delusional overkill against this particular incursion.

BloomGate
February 27th, 2008, 03:43 AM
OK but they underestimated the fact that the SGC and Midway would actually sacrifice themselves in a self destruct. Wraith aren't all that self sacrificing.

I would think that they expected to be able to neutralize the folks at Midway and the SGC before they could initiate a self destruct. As I pointed out, they expected to be able to take over Midway and hold it, and didn't expect to stay on Earth very long.

SoulReaver
March 2nd, 2008, 09:54 AM
I would think that they expected to be able to neutralize the folks at Midway and the SGC before they could initiate a self destruct. As I pointed out, they expected to be able to take over Midway and hold it, and didn't expect to stay on Earth very long.yup they never even expected SGC to be able to send an SOS (as for that guy Coolidge waking up, especially before the other...hmm...wrong move there, writers)

Joben
June 3rd, 2008, 10:43 PM
A tiny niggle with this episode I had was when Atlantis connected to the Wraith-controlled gate which was the path to Midway and once they figured out the Wraith were there Sheppard said to close the gate. If they'd just kept it open for the 38 minutes any further waves wouldn't have been able to go through until they'd readied their strike force.

This is a common flaw though and hard to work around e.g. during The Siege in the first season the Wraith could have continually dialed into Atlantis to prevent their leaving, or the System Lords could have continually dialed the Earth gate from SG1 Season 1 onwards to prevent them from leaving, but it would make for some pretty boring television :P

And after the 'loss' of Midway, couldn't they just build another station? Most of the Stargates should still be there and they could do an iris system since the Wraith know about it now.

A few flaws in the episode, but it was pretty good for the action.

PG15
June 3rd, 2008, 11:00 PM
About that last one; they may not want to build another station, since it'll be vulnerable to Wraith attack like with this one. Even if they better fortify it, the Wraith will still know that there is another way to Earth that doesn't require hyperdrives, and they'll exploit it.

garhkal
June 4th, 2008, 07:44 AM
But not if there is a shield or Iris blocking the gate.

jelgate
June 4th, 2008, 03:19 PM
Their are always ways around an iris.