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View Full Version : The Ronon - Teal'c initial conflict



HyperspaceDaemon
February 18th, 2008, 12:58 AM
This thread is not about who would have won the fight - this was discussed already .

What bothered me was Ronon's childish attitude : when Sam introduced Teal'c to him Ronon was unnaturally aggressive - he didn't even shake hands. He was very rude and aggressive, as if he would have met a hated old enemy .

Ok , they are both warriors and sometimes warriors confront as a training for future battles . But there were really no reasons for hatred .

That's why I think that Ronon's behavior was immature .

On the other hand, Teal'c had the right reaction : he seems a little amused by the temper of the younger warrior. If Ronon wants to fight , Teal'c is of course ready to give him a good fight. Teal'c is much more balanced and self-confident compared to Ronon .

So, Ronon's attitude comes from the fact that he doesn't like to be babysitted. But his aggresive reaction towards Teal'c only proves that he could learn a lot from Teal'c about self-confidence and about focusing on the real enemies !

AGateFan
February 18th, 2008, 01:35 AM
I thought Ronan was slightly out of character. I thought it had been established that hes not some stupid animal or child but was a respected member of the military on his planet. Teal'c is someone he doesnt even know but whom people say is a respected member of the military. It would have made more sense if he treated Teal'c like he treats everyone else when he meets them (which I hope isnt this way, otherwise he needs to be off the first contact team). His reaction would have been more appropriate had it occured after Teal'c did the caffeteria thing to him or if there was some other reason given.

As it was Ronan did just look like an unreasonable, unlikeable child for no good reason and I certainly wouldnt want him as an ambassador to the people of Atlantis. If he's going to be like that, then I recommend leaving him in the gym until you have some wraith to kill, not taking him on exploratory missions and NEVER take him to earth if thats how he is going to treat every other warrior he meets.

jasminaGo
February 18th, 2008, 07:45 AM
Ronan is still very young. No matter what he's been trough, he still has a lot to learn.

I think the fact that the people in Atlantis didn't trust him to pass the interview hurt him, and he acted like every kid who tries to prove himself. He rebelled against the authority and tried to do everything on his own.

Teal'c wasn't offended by his attitude because he's dealt with similar situation in the past. He thought Ronan a lesson in the fight, cause Ronan is used to being the strongest person on base, and it might have gone to his head.

They have a very similar personality, but Teal'c's experience is of incredible value and I think in time Ronan would have the self-confidence to stay calm even if he is insulted or dis-respected.

Vala_M
February 18th, 2008, 07:49 AM
That was my take as well, he was mad because Sam didn't think he could pass his IOA interview on his own.

Vala,

SoulReaver
February 18th, 2008, 09:17 AM
bah, just plain stupid. he acted and looked stupid - you know, Chewie - then again he never was portrayed as a smart kinda bloke anyway, so some consistence there I guess

he did redeem himself later on though, as he came to respect & in the end even appreciate Tealc for the warrior he was :tealc:

Mack_1
February 18th, 2008, 10:12 AM
Ronon wasnít please that Sam thought he couldnít pass the review and she was right, for all we know he is still mad at her for the fact she didnít allow him to bring his friends over to Atlantis when she got the charge of the city/base, yes they team up at the end but as always we didnít see the end of that argument, although at the end Ronon had to acknowledge Carter was right in her assumption.

He probably felt like Tealíc was invading his territory and react it to that, but his disrespect for Carter when he plain ignore her and spiting that water told me he still doesnít like her, Tealíc kind of got the hint thatís why he ask her to steep aside, and you could see he didnít like the way Ronon traded Carter as well.

At the end Ronon did learn from Tealíc, He is older, wiser and calmer, BUT even with all of this there were episodes when Tealíc could go off the handle when he go after his enemies.

So hereís hoping the writers kill the childish attitude in the future and develop a mature Ronon.

Lauriel
February 18th, 2008, 06:07 PM
I disagree that it's out of character. We've seen from Ronon's past that this is the way that he behaves when confronted with someone that he feels could either challenge or hold authority over him. He did the same with Wier, although to a lesser degree since it was obvious he wouldn't have to fight her. He even behaved the same way when faced with the replicator version of himself (who I don't feel qualifies as an enemy, since they had stated their intentions to assist and made it clear that they were not Asuran). He was hostile to Shep and Teyla when he first encountered them as well.

We can see from other Satedan's that we've met that they are agressive at least, if not hostile, until you earn their respect. Add that to the years he's spent running, you have a lifetime of habit that is not going to be erased in two years. I don't think it is a matter of childishness or lack of intelligence. He was raised among people who show respect through superior strength, and he has also had a period of at least eight years where he has repeatedly seen that he can not trust people, and not automatically trusting people was integral to his survival.

I can also see Teal'c behaving in a similar manner when he was younger, given the past history we have seen of him. I think he was able to react so well because he has the age and experience, and a lot more learning than Ronon has, to be able to understand Ronon and know how to handle him. I think that is one of the things he meant when he said that he can see a lot of potential in Ronon- that Ronon can also learn the lessons that he has.

KindlyKeller
February 18th, 2008, 09:02 PM
This was a reminder of how annoying Ronon can be as a character. It felt like a step back for him. I've never liked him much, but this took it to a new level. I suppose what I'm saying is: this wasn't out of character for him, even though he was clearly being a petulant jerk.

MarshAngel
February 19th, 2008, 07:05 PM
I thought the whole Ronon vs. Teal'c thing was unnecessary and self indulgent on the part of the writers and a clear gift to fans of the whole godzilla vs. superman nonsense that keeps popping up all over the place. The only purpose of that fight was to satisfy that neverending question of who would win in fight.

If it seemed out of character that's because they probably started with an end they wanted to acheive and worked backward to get the characters there, disregarding what actually makes sense.

Avenger
February 19th, 2008, 08:55 PM
Ronon is a man of action. He felt that his actions working with the team would be enough to convince the new IOA guy that he was on their side. Everyone else disagreed. Ronon took that as a shot at his loyalty, which angered him. He took the fact that everyone else thought he would benefit from some coaching personally. When he met Teal'C, he was annoyed and angry with the way he was being treated. He took it out on Teal'C. It's not that complicated and this kind of thing happens in real life all the time when two alpha males butt heads.

fordpickup&6pack
February 20th, 2008, 03:44 PM
In my opinion, it showed how shallow and brainless Dex actually is. Supposedly, Sateda was a civilized place, but Dex's behavior leads one to believe that his home was populated by cave-dwelling savages who communicate by showing off unprovoked aggression towards anything that is new to them.

PG15
February 20th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Oy, it's nothing to do with Teal'c being "new", it's that he was a symbol of the distrust the others have for him behaving well while being interviewed. Ronon doesn't like to be look down on.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
February 20th, 2008, 06:18 PM
In my opinion, it showed how shallow and brainless Dex actually is. Supposedly, Sateda was a civilized place, but Dex's behavior leads one to believe that his home was populated by cave-dwelling savages who communicate by showing off unprovoked aggression towards anything that is new to them.

Ronon's behavior does often seem strangely atavistic when you consider that he comes from an advanced world.

IMForeman
February 20th, 2008, 06:24 PM
Ronon's behavior does often seem strangely atavistic when you consider that he comes from an advanced world.

He comes from an advanced world that he saw destroyed in front of him. He then spent years on the run, being hunted by Wraith as a kind of game. If that's not a recipe for going a bit feral... well, I don't know what is.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
February 20th, 2008, 07:03 PM
He comes from an advanced world that he saw destroyed in front of him. He then spent years on the run, being hunted by Wraith as a kind of game. If that's not a recipe for going a bit feral... well, I don't know what is.


Still, I think they characterize him more as a Conan type than like that. I realize it's a bit subjective.

Jill_Ion
February 20th, 2008, 08:36 PM
Still, I think they characterize him more as a Conan type than like that. I realize it's a bit subjective.

Conan O'Brien? (Boy, doesn't that put a picture in my mind!) :lol:

Just kidding, I know you mean the Barbarian. :)

I didn't see Ronon as out of character, and I like his character, so it's all good for me. :ronan:

Lythisrose
February 20th, 2008, 09:02 PM
From JM's blog:

Kosmo writes: ďRonon, in our opinion, would not have been such an immature alfa dog toward someone that is basically a legend at the SGC.Ē

Answer: Are you kidding? Sure he would. Ronon is a major Alpha dog (note the A is capitalized). In Runner, he was established as highly suspicious by nature, and inclined to react first and think later. Yes, heís certainly grown since then, but much of that growth has been expressed in his evolving relationship with Sheppard and co. The Ronon we know and love opened up to his friends on Atlantis over time because they have earned his trust and respect. Tealíc, or any outsider for that matter, has yet to earn that same respect. Furthermore, after all heís heard about Tealíc the kick-ass warrior and living legend, a rep that actually mirrors his own, itĎs no wonder Ronon want to challenge the guy for bragging rights.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/

Lauriel
February 21st, 2008, 04:41 AM
He comes from an advanced world that he saw destroyed in front of him. He then spent years on the run, being hunted by Wraith as a kind of game. If that's not a recipe for going a bit feral... well, I don't know what is.
Good point.


Still, I think they characterize him more as a Conan type than like that. I realize it's a bit subjective.
I think his care and concern for Shep in Outcast show that he is not always written like you suggest. So does his friendship with Teyla. The odd moment like the one where he holds her hand when she argues with Shep over her pregnancy are a case in point (it's late and the ep escapes me for the moment).

BubblingOverWithIdeas
February 21st, 2008, 08:19 AM
I think his care and concern for Shep in Outcast show that he is not always written like you suggest. So does his friendship with Teyla. The odd moment like the one where he holds her hand when she argues with Shep over her pregnancy are a case in point (it's late and the ep escapes me for the moment).

I didn't mean his more tender emotions, I meant his overall image and demeanor. Perhaps he projects a facade?

Lauriel
February 21st, 2008, 06:21 PM
I didn't mean his more tender emotions, I meant his overall image and demeanor. Perhaps he projects a facade?

Do you mean that he projects the 'Conon' facade to people he hasn't developed a bond with? Because I think that is what he does. Given his background, I think it's very in-character. Just my opinion, of course. :)

Avenger
February 21st, 2008, 11:49 PM
Ronon's behavior does often seem strangely atavistic when you consider that he comes from an advanced world.

So, because a civilization is advanced and civilized, everyone is going to be proper and civilized? Sorry, but I don't buy it. Even if we take being hunted by the Wraith for seven years out of the equation, is it not possible for there to be gruff people in a "civilized" society? Are there not people with similar personalities in our real world? Of course there are.

SoulReaver
March 1st, 2008, 12:43 AM
He comes from an advanced world that he saw destroyed in front of him. He then spent years on the run, being hunted by Wraith as a kind of game. If that's not a recipe for going a bit feral... well, I don't know what is.he was also introduced to a new advanced world that we saw accept him & whose people gave him their trust & their friendship. he spent 3 years amongst them (s1 to s4), that's 3 full years which had elapsed since his ordeal. and to top if off his nemesis, the wraith king who started this all, was killed in front if him by those same people, providing final (and long-needed) closure. if all of this is not a recipe for getting over it...well, I don't know what is

IMForeman
March 1st, 2008, 10:59 PM
he was also introduced to a new advanced world that we saw accept him & whose people gave him their trust & their friendship. he spent 3 years amongst them (s1 to s4), that's 3 full years which had elapsed since his ordeal. and to top if off his nemesis, the wraith king who started this all, was killed in front if him by those same people, providing final (and long-needed) closure. if all of this is not a recipe for getting over it...well, I don't know what is

Well, I'll tell you what, sunshine... I'll kill your family in front of you, and all your friends, and your pets... and I'll burn your home to the ground. Then, I will set you loose in a jungle and hunt you. When it's all over, and you've been back in civilization again, you tell me if you're completely over it.

It's very easy for you to say "get over it", but you just try losing everything and see if you find that so easy.

SoulReaver
March 2nd, 2008, 10:51 AM
Well, I'll tell you what, sunshine... I'll kill your family in front of you, and all your friends, and your pets... and I'll burn your home to the ground. Then, I will set you loose in a jungle and hunt you. When it's all over, and you've been back in civilization again, you tell me if you're completely over it.

It's very easy for you to say "get over it", but you just try losing everything and see if you find that so easy.well obviously no I won't, until I get back to you & take out your own family friends pets & houseplants (very important, the house plants -)
heck no, just you would suffice, but in a very "slow" fashion and without allowing you the luxury of being on the loose in a jungle, if ya see what I mean
yup that should do - of course closure would be proportionate to amount of physical pain inflicted, so I'd have to make sure closure is satisfactory -)


(edit> btw who said "completely" ? :tealcanime49:)

anyway, he looked pretty much the same back on his planet (right down to the dreadlocks & the 'tude), sounds more like someone who'd been acting like the "I'm da man" kinda guy his whole life - unless he'd lost yet another family before (due to whatever cause) or some other excuse ?

oh and his "family" at the time amounted to what - one person ? (his g/f)

Razzgard
July 28th, 2008, 06:44 PM
To me it was a huge error on the part of the writers to play Ronan this way. Someone a few post backs said "a step back"...yeah, for sure. If Ronan had to satisfy the testosterone problem...it could have been worked up to through a series of encounters and so on...but the immediate pouty petulance was just shoddy crap from the writer(s).

A trained military man and an honorable warrior...would quickly see the value of showing a little respect to a 100+ year old legendary warrior...and one who is for all intents...part of the same outfit as himself!!

My most eye rolling moment was when Ronan bosses Teal'c around at SGC..."you go this way..I'll go that way"....for crying outloud!!!! This is Teal'c's home territory!!...what a poor poor way to write a character that, for me. I've struggled to like anyway. I agree with the poster above who suggested Ronan be kept locked up and simply let out for battles.

Speaking of ridiculous attitudes...somebody PLEASE...make Cavanaugh go away. He should have been sooo fired...a long time ago.

(W.... Riddik could kick both Teal'c and Ronan's asses at once :)

Trig
June 21st, 2012, 07:02 AM
Yeah I thought Ronin was a dick as well, granted we dont know what Sam had told him about Teal'c but I doubt it was something that would provoke that sort of responce, maybe theres a scene or something that was cut that explains it better?

Lunaeclipse
June 27th, 2012, 03:03 PM
... I thought that Ronon was offended by the fact that they thought he needed help to pass the interview - like he was being treated like a child...and this is not a definite, just how I saw it... But I think he got over that near the end.

The "I'll go this way, you go that way." in a battle way doesn't have to mean disrespect. I took it as Ronon telling Teal what he was going to do, so that the fight would be more effective - so that they weren't going after the same enemy, so to speak.

There is another element, not mentioned that entered my head... depending on what Ronon was told about Teal'c... Teal'c worked for the bad guys at one stage, it may not have been the wraith, but like I said depends on what he knows about them... Teal'c having helped people be enslvaed and hurt in the past may not have escaped Ronon's mind...and Ronon doesn't forget that kind of stuff easy...

...and in addition...Ronon has trust issues...

Trig
June 28th, 2012, 08:21 AM
Good point hadn't even thought about that..

Davey
December 13th, 2018, 06:58 PM
I agree 100% with all the insightful criticisms in this thread regarding Teal'c and Ronon.