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knowles2
February 17th, 2008, 03:28 AM
Their are some things that really get on my nerves.

1. does every single one IOA agent have to be unlikable. I mean seriously I would have love this agent to have been totally different for once, he treats women lousy but when it comes to his job, he actually quite good at it , would have like if he went with Ronan and Teal'c and help them out, especially at the end if he walk around the corner and took the two wraiths out, it would look so much cooler. I getting bored with all IOA characters turning out arrogant and stupid.

2. I personally think it would of been slightly better if Kavalagh actually did shut down the wormhole safely, and it something Mackay did that destroyed the station, it more fun picking on Mackay than Kavalagh.

3. Carter should have sent a nuclear warhead through to destroy the cruiser that landed on the planet, It would have destroyed the wraith vessel, leaving one less to worry about and stop them sending reinforcement through the gate and plus it limit the threat of them sharing the information with other wraith and could have eliminated the one that told them about Midway.

4. Shepperd got in to that space suit, I mean if Shepperd could do that, then why did he not just climb into the Jumper, and it usually takes several people to put an astronaut into a space suit in gravity. It just did not makes sense and it was obvious that the writers did not know how to get him out of that situations, so just decided to have Shepperd suddenly appear in the space suit, stupid writing, they are arrogant for thinking audience are so stupid.

5. Using the puddle jumper as a escaped pod is a stupid idea, they had at least five people then, I mean seriously anymore than ten people on that station at once and they would have to start pulling straws or something to decides who survive, they must of sent through more two people at once to the station, plus there were more than 3 in the control center on the station. surely the gang who design the station must have relies a wraith incursion could mean they had 20 or more soldiers to evacuate, talk about not building backup into the lifeboat system.

6. Wraith being so pathetically weak throughout the episode, anyone other than a main cast character they die instantly, then suddenly come a main character, oops they lose their intelligent, I mean seriously how many wraith do they have to see dead before they realize their guys with guns round the corner shooting wraith as they appear, before they start to realize what's going on and go the other way or take cover and shoot.

but apart from that it was pretty good episode.

ciannwn
February 17th, 2008, 07:37 AM
6. Wraith being so pathetically weak through out the episode, anyone than main cast character they killed instantly, then when suddenly come the main character, oops they loose their and their intelligent

It's one of the Stargate universe laws. US Marines are useless when fighting Wraith, superbugs etc. and these, in turn, are useless when fighting any of the main characters. :D

SoulReaver
February 17th, 2008, 08:37 AM
It's one of the Stargate universe laws. US Marines are useless when fighting Wraith, superbugs etc. and these, in turn, are useless when fighting any of the main characters. :Dyup so it balances out

Lord batchi ball
February 17th, 2008, 08:48 AM
Their are some things that really get on my nerves.

1. does every single IOA agent have to be unlikable. I mean seriously I love this agent to actually to of been totally different, he treats women lousy but when it comes to his job, he actually quite good at it , would love him to actually to of went with Ronan and Teal'c and help them out, especially at the end if he walk around the corner and took them two wraiths out it would look so much cooler. I getting bored with all the IOA characters turning out arrogant and stupid.

Because we have to hate someone, otherwise the show would be all happy and such.



3. Carter should of sent a nuclear warhead through to destroy the cruiser that landed on the planet, It would of destroyed wraith vessel, one less to worry about and stop them sending reinforcement through the gate and plus it limit the threat of them sharing the information with other wraith and obviously could eliminated the one that told them the info on Midway.

Why because then we would be out of nuc. And also they might not have had any other than the one that was on the self destruct. And you can't compromise your security to destroy part of the enemy.


4. Shepperd got in to that space suit, I seriously stupid, I mean if Shepperd could do that, then why did not he just climb into the Jumper, and it usally takes several people to put an asterought into a space suit in gravity. It just did not makes sense and it was obvious that the writers did not know how to get them out of it so just decided to have Shepperd be arrogant about it, stupid writing. .

Maybe he did'nt know the code to get through the door



6. Wraith being so pathetically weak through out the episode, anyone than main cast character they killed instantly, then when suddenly come the main character, oops they loose their and their intelligent, I mean seriously how many wraith do they have to see dead before they relies their one guy with guns round the corner shooting wraith as they appear, before they start to relies going the other way or take cover and shoot from behind the cover.

but apart from that it was pretty good episode.

Thats what makes a show :D

kymeric
February 17th, 2008, 09:10 AM
I dont think ive ever had a single boss who wasnt a dillweed. I find the ioa believable, lulz.

jds1982
February 17th, 2008, 10:41 AM
I personally liked the Wraith trying to stun their way through the door.

Mitchell82
February 17th, 2008, 10:51 AM
Their are some things that really get on my nerves.

1. does every single IOA agent have to be unlikable. I mean seriously I love this agent to actually to of been totally different, he treats women lousy but when it comes to his job, he actually quite good at it , would love him to actually to of went with Ronan and Teal'c and help them out, especially at the end if he walk around the corner and took them two wraiths out it would look so much cooler. I getting bored with all the IOA characters turning out arrogant and stupid.
How many politicians are actually likable? My point is they are supposed to be arrogant pricks.


2. I personally think it would of been slightly better if Kavalagh actually did shut down the worm hole safely, and it something that Mackay did destroyed the station, it more fun picking on Mackay than Kavalagh.
No. Mckay has done his share of boo-boos. Much better that Kavanaugh is responsible.


3. Carter should of sent a nuclear warhead through to destroy the cruiser that landed on the planet, It would of destroyed wraith vessel, one less to worry about and stop them sending reinforcement through the gate and plus it limit the threat of them sharing the information with other wraith and obviously could eliminated the one that told them the info on Midway.
One the warhead wouldn't have done a thing unless you could get it to the ship which would take awhile. Second the gate and equipment could easily survive the explosion.


4. Shepperd got in to that space suit, I seriously stupid, I mean if Shepperd could do that, then why did not he just climb into the Jumper, and it usally takes several people to put an asterought into a space suit in gravity. It just did not makes sense and it was obvious that the writers did not know how to get them out of it so just decided to have Shepperd be arrogant about it, stupid writing.
I'll grant you that him getting into by himself is unlikely but how is this arrogant?


5. What a stupid idea the puddle jumper as a escaped pod is, they had at leased five people then, I mean seriously anymore than ten people on that station at once and they would have to start pulling straws or something to decides who survive, I mean they must sent through more two people at once to station, plus their were more than 3 in the control center on the station. plus surly the gang who design the station must of relies a wraith incursion could mean they 20 or more solders to evacuate, talk about not building backup into the life boat system.
Escape pods are for emergency use and it actually was quite logical. I don't see the issue.


6. Wraith being so pathetically weak through out the episode, anyone than main cast character they killed instantly, then when suddenly come the main character, oops they loose their and their intelligent, I mean seriously how many wraith do they have to see dead before they relies their one guy with guns round the corner shooting wraith as they appear, before they start to relies going the other way or take cover and shoot from behind the cover.

but apart from that it was pretty good episode.

Um the were going against the two toughest characters in the franchise so I disagree.

gopher65
February 17th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Yeah that Spacesuit thing really bugged me. He was so weak that he couldn't even crawl toward the jumper, but he could pause time for 3 to 5 hours and labour his way into a spacesuit? Right.... that makes sense. They should have had him jump in a handy airtight closet. It would have been convenient, but at least it wouldn't have been flat out completely impossible.

And before anyone says "duuude, you're watching a show with aliens and wormholes, and you're complaining that the spacesuit isn't realisitic??", remember what Tolkien said. (Paraphrased heavily) "You can create any type of world you want, with any type of magic in it that you want. But the world must be believable and internally consistent."

In other words you have have a wizard cast a magical spell as long as that is believable within the context of his world, but you can't have an ordinary human do something out of context, like drink a glass of potassium cyanide and feel just peachy afterwards. Why? Cause your audience knows nothing about Wizards, but they know darned well that a normal human can't just drink a glass of cyanide and survive. It breaks the suspension of disbelief and jolts your audience out of the story.

To put it yet another way, if you use real world items in a fantasy story like Stargate then you have to make sure they work exactly the same way as they do in the real world. You can't have a level 300 character in WoW unless you specifically explain how that is possible in your universe. You can't have an insta-wear spacesuit. You can have ships with hyperdrives, but you can't have a standard issue Ford Focus with rocketlaunchers built in as standard. The audience knows that isn't true, cause it is something that exists in the real world.

Esquin
February 17th, 2008, 12:17 PM
Ok so we can all agree 2 things didn't make sense.

Sheperd being Mr time pause I'm gonna get into a space suit in 15.6 seconds man.

And the Wraith trying to stun open a door. I mean we've seen plenty of evidence that suggests multiple stuns don't do a damn thing to a person besides make them fall down more. What the heck did they think they were going to do to a 10 inch trinium bulkhead?

Little_McKay
February 17th, 2008, 01:01 PM
My main complaint:

It's Dr. Kavanagh!!!

There's about 20 versions of his name on the forum - it's KAVANAGH!!!! No l's no u's!!!

Anyway, the space suit thing did indeed bug me. However, did he know the code to get to the jumper? Did Dr. Lee pipe up and tell him?

Also, Kavanagh was more likely to do something stupid - if McKay had made the error to destroy Midway I'd have been pissed off at the writers for making him so dumb. I already thought ill of the writers for making McKay dumb enough to not realise that people dialing out of an uninhabited planet wasn't an immediate give away, with that fact having to be pointed out!

Not THAT many people are supposed to go through the Midway station at any time so there SHOULDN'T be a lot of people on the station. Therefore one jumper should normally be enough - this was a unique situation. We don't know how many jumpers there are spare in the first place. If they over stocked it with jumpers there may have been one less when they needed it to blast those asteroids in the beginning of season 4! lol.

Also, they were NOT planning on any wraith attacks - ever! It was a "secure" macro and assumed to be 100% safe - maybe an incorrect assumption, but they never planned for attacks of need for escape.

kymeric
February 17th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Ok so we can all agree 2 things didn't make sense.

Sheperd being Mr time pause I'm gonna get into a space suit in 15.6 seconds man.

And the Wraith trying to stun open a door. I mean we've seen plenty of evidence that suggests multiple stuns don't do a damn thing to a person besides make them fall down more. What the heck did they think they were going to do to a 10 inch trinium bulkhead?

I thought the stunning the door thing was odd, but i thought, meh they know their weapons they must be doing something that they think will work. Otherwise..... they wouldnt be doing it. Do stun staffs have a blowupdoor setting? These were long metal stunners rite? Not the organic ones with little lights?

Sheppard must have ordered the easymode spacesuits for midway ^.^

Detox
February 17th, 2008, 03:29 PM
1. does every single IOA agent have to be unlikable. I mean seriously I love this agent to actually to of been totally different, he treats women lousy but when it comes to his job, he actually quite good at it , would love him to actually to of went with Ronan and Teal'c and help them out, especially at the end if he walk around the corner and took them two wraiths out it would look so much cooler. I getting bored with all the IOA characters turning out arrogant and stupid.

Bates and Woolsey are pretty likable. And the guy wasn't that bad, in the end he gave Ronon his full approval and blessings.


4. Shepperd got in to that space suit, I seriously stupid, I mean if Shepperd could do that, then why did not he just climb into the Jumper, and it usally takes several people to put an asterought into a space suit in gravity. It just did not makes sense and it was obvious that the writers did not know how to get them out of it so just decided to have Shepperd be arrogant about it, stupid writing.

Jumper bay was locked. Only Midway personnel had the codes, that's why Dr. Lee had to open it.


5. What a stupid idea the puddle jumper as a escaped pod is, they had at leased five people then, I mean seriously anymore than ten people on that station at once and they would have to start pulling straws or something to decides who survive, I mean they must sent through more two people at once to station, plus their were more than 3 in the control center on the station. plus surly the gang who design the station must of relies a wraith incursion could mean they 20 or more solders to evacuate, talk about not building backup into the life boat system.

What else would they use as a lifeboat then? Earth doesn't have any transport vessels. Besides, Puddle Jumpers can hold quite a bit of people, at least 15, probably more, as seen in Rising Pt2 and Letters from Pegasus.

Also, it's spelt realize, not relies.

kirmit
February 17th, 2008, 03:36 PM
I personally liked the Wraith trying to stun their way through the door.

Lol that bit really made me laugh, what the hell were they hoping to happen :P.

P-90_177
February 17th, 2008, 03:38 PM
there really are only three things i have a problem with in that ep.

1. the speed shep got into that Suit. Ordinarily I can come up with an explanation for practically any plot hole but that one really eludes me. would have been easier if they'd opened the hatch to the Jumper and found John inside already.

2. The fact that shep was able to fight off a wraith despite him already suffocateing, although I supose it is possible that wraith require much more oxygen than humans.

3. We've seen that gates are not so easily destroyed so why not go back in the jumper and dial the gate. though a lack of power may have something to do with it anyway.

peragrin
February 17th, 2008, 04:58 PM
Lol that bit really made me laugh, what the hell were they hoping to happen :P.

The wraith use organic ships though. multiple stun weapons might overload the power supplies and pen up the doors. you go with what you know.

sure it is implausible but it is all I got. There are suits that you can get into in 15 seconds usually back mounted hard suits that are more like mini spaceships(or subs) that wasn't one of them.

Politicians are generally rude pushy people. they like getting their way. I don't find it surprising. Woolsely has been around the block a few times. getting ganged up by replicators, shot at, and etc has shown him that these people do more than what reports indicate. The new guy will calm down once he gets shot at a few more times.

i am sure teyla will help.

gopher65
February 17th, 2008, 07:20 PM
3. We've seen that gates are not so easily destroyed so why not go back in the jumper and dial the gate. though a lack of power may have something to do with it anyway.
The gates would have been spinning pretty fast. Matching velocities and spin rates with a gate so that it is at a relative stop to the puddle jumper would be no mean feat. I'm surprised that they didn't try though. Or maybe they did, and thought it wasn't worth the risk? Or maybe the writers just didn't think of that... again. :mckay:

This episode really reads (errrr... watches) like it was written in an incredible rush, as if they didn't have time to proofread it for continuity errors and silly mistakes. I suspect that when the season 4 DVDs come out the commentary will mention something along those lines. "I only had 4 days to pen this script, so it didn't come out as well as it might have."

Lorr
February 17th, 2008, 07:53 PM
Ok, my 2 cents...

Shep getting in the suit so fast. It was a stretch, but they didn't show that it was all buttoned up, did they? How long did they imply it took to get into the suits, properly sealed for use in space, in Adrift?

I agree the Wraith may have been thinking the stunners would overload the door's circuits. Even the geeks inside were a little worried.

I think a Jumper was a perfect escape pod. It has engines, defenses, radio, etc. The gates would have been moving rather rapidly. It may have moved out of range of its coordinates and could not be dialed. Without being able to stop its flight and fix the position, it was useless.

Rodney blowing up one more thing would have been too much, and too stupid.

Coolidge needed to mark his territory, so the attitude was not surprising. The surprising part was that he did not hold a grudge against Ronon for pretty much saying he was a coward for wanting to leave Teal'c behind. Shows there is hope for him.

I can forgive the few things for the overall very good episode. 43 minutes isn't a lot of time to tell the story.

kymeric
February 17th, 2008, 08:02 PM
Wernt the wraith trying to stun the door all drone clones? There not the smartest aliens in the universe. Theyre prolly alittle deedeedee. Cannon fodder.

PG15
February 17th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Shep got out of that suit pretty fast too.

Maybe it was an emergency suit...or something. ;)

Shan Bruce Lee
February 17th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Their are some things that really get on my nerves.

1. does every single IOA agent have to be unlikable.

I generally find most politicians with a civillian background unlikeable :sheppardanime31:


2. I personally think it would of been slightly better if Kavalagh actually did shut down the worm hole safely, and it something that Mackay did destroyed the station, it more fun picking on Mackay than Kavalagh.

Not for me. I like seeing Ronon push Kavanagh. :ronananime01:


3. Carter should of sent a nuclear warhead through to destroy the cruiser that landed on the planet, It would of destroyed wraith vessel, one less to worry about and stop them sending reinforcement through the gate and plus it limit the threat of them sharing the information with other wraith and obviously could eliminated the one that told them the info on Midway.

Great! Then there'd be no episode!


4. Shepperd got in to that space suit, I seriously stupid, I mean if Shepperd could do that, then why did not he just climb into the Jumper, and it usally takes several people to put an asterought into a space suit in gravity. It just did not makes sense and it was obvious that the writers did not know how to get them out of it so just decided to have Shepperd be arrogant about it, stupid writing.

It was a little too easy, I agree. Still don't think it's that big of a deal though.


5. What a stupid idea the puddle jumper as a escaped pod is, they had at leased five people then, I mean seriously anymore than ten people on that station at once and they would have to start pulling straws or something to decides who survive, I mean they must sent through more two people at once to station, plus their were more than 3 in the control center on the station. plus surly the gang who design the station must of relies a wraith incursion could mean they 20 or more solders to evacuate, talk about not building backup into the life boat system.

I don't think the puddle jumper was an "escape pod" I think they just kept it around incase they needed to do something outside the station. The Midway Station was designed to only be accessable from either Atlantis or the SGC (which is why the Wraith needed all that equipment to get to it in the first place) so there wasn't really any need for a large security detail.


6. Wraith being so pathetically weak through out the episode, anyone than main cast character they killed instantly, then when suddenly come the main character, oops they loose their and their intelligent, I mean seriously how many wraith do they have to see dead before they relies their one guy with guns round the corner shooting wraith as they appear, before they start to relies going the other way or take cover and shoot from behind the cover.

but apart from that it was pretty good episode.

It's the Stormtrooper/Cylon Syndrome A.K.A. "Henchmen" - These stories are about the heroes because they're the ones that are capable of pullin this stuff off. Otherwise they could just use a different SG team for every episode. (just think about how many times an SG-1 episode included the line "SG-[insert any number but 1] was wiped out, Sir")

Avenger
February 17th, 2008, 11:06 PM
1.) IOA = bureaucracy. Bureaucrats and people of action (aka military) never get along.

3.) Nuking the planet probably would have destroyed the gate and rendered the Pegasus side of the gate bridge useless. Not exactly the best first choice of tactics.

4.) Sheppard might not have had the proper codes to get into the jumper airlock.

5.) It's not really a problem if the station crew is three people, which it was, and even then, it was going to be two once Dr. Lee left.

6.) That called "It's a TV show and anyone but the main cast is expendable and the main cast always kicks ass". Stargate has always been like this.

o-0
February 17th, 2008, 11:09 PM
I've recently brought myself to accept such flaws as these in tv shows and now I enjoy them much more. You should do the same.


I seriously stupid
No argument there. Please brush up on your English ASAP.

An-Alteran
February 18th, 2008, 12:24 AM
It's one of the Stargate universe laws. US Marines are useless when fighting Wraith, superbugs etc. and these, in turn, are useless when fighting any of the main characters. :D

Rock, paper, scisors? So would the main characters be useless against the Marines?

ciannwn
February 18th, 2008, 02:28 AM
Rock, paper, scisors? So would the main characters be useless against the Marines?

No, because the Marines' job is to expire whenever they're fighting anyone and everything. It's so we can pretend that the main characters are super heroes when they dispose of anyone and everything that wiped the Marines out. :D

gopher65
February 18th, 2008, 07:02 AM
I think a Jumper was a perfect escape pod. It has engines, defenses, radio, etc. The gates would have been moving rather rapidly. It may have moved out of range of its coordinates and could not be dialed. Without being able to stop its flight and fix the position, it was useless.
Planets move around stars reeeeeallllly fast. And stars move around the central core reallllly fast. If a gate can't take being moved at a few metres/second then every gate would be immediately rendered useless due to planetary and stellar motion.

No, the gates weren't used for the same reason that Walter didn't activate the Iris, and the same reason that Carter didn't nuke that Cruiser, and the same reason that John didn't just step into a handy airtight closet instead of pausing time, and the same reason why the Wraith were idiots in this episode.

It was partly the fault of the person who wrote the episode, but mostly the fault of the people who edited the script. Obviously they all fell asleep on the job.

Avenger
February 18th, 2008, 09:43 AM
Stepping into an airtight closet is the worst idea ever. Seriously. Think about it for one second. As soon as said air tight closet is opened, all the air that was inside would rush would have rushed out. Then once John gets inside and seals it, there would be no air to breath and he would have died. Seriously, if you're going to come up with "better ideas", take the time to make sure it's actually better.

Mack_1
February 18th, 2008, 09:49 AM
I know this is a show BUT Sheppard joining on the whole fight/betting was so annoying, isnít he a Col. In the USA? I know there are civilians and all, but were those he draw the line? :mckay:

Sheppard getting into that suit, he was dying the last scene we saw, and doesnít it take two or three people to help one to get into them?

The whole SGC was with out a commander, and the first to woke up were the politicians and the technicians, what happen to the soldiers and SGTeams.

gopher65
February 18th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Stepping into an airtight closet is the worst idea ever. Seriously. Think about it for one second. As soon as said air tight closet is opened, all the air that was inside would rush would have rushed out. Then once John gets inside and seals it, there would be no air to breath and he would have died. Seriously, if you're going to come up with "better ideas", take the time to make sure it's actually better.
Umm... air doesn't move instantly. It takes time for air to completely evacuate an area. So once he opened the closet, the air pressure inside would normalize with that of the immediate area of the station (in which the pressure would be rapidly, but not instantly, dropping). He could then step inside and close the door. The air would be thin, but humans can survive for a while on very thin air. Not for a long while mind you, but it was only like a minute or 2 before they repressurized. Even in a vacuum a human can last 30 seconds to 2 minutes (though with damage). He'd have been fine.

By the way, someone mentioned that the wraith might need more oxygen than humans, and that's why John was able to overpower the lead Wraith. I think that's not a bad idea. The wraith obviously have the ability to rapidly use energy (their bursts of strength), and more energy usage means more oxygen usage. So that may be why that Wraith was so weak compared to John:).

knowles2
February 18th, 2008, 11:27 AM
Because we have to hate someone, otherwise the show would be all happy and such.

Why because then we would be out of nuc. And also they might not have had any other than the one that was on the self destruct. And you can't compromise your security to destroy part of the enemy.

Maybe he did'nt know the code to get through the door



He had a radio, calling the station crew for the password would of taken a hell of a less time than putting on space suit, which usually takes hours and several people to help to be able to used.




It's one of the Stargate universe laws. US Marines are useless when fighting Wraith, superbugs etc. and these, in turn, are useless when fighting any of the main characters. :D


yup so it balances out

Suppose, of its just dodgy writing, directing of the script.



I dont think ive ever had a single boss who wasnt a dillweed. I find the ioa believable, lulz.




How many politicians are actually likable? My point is they are supposed to be arrogant pricks.

Actually not all are arrogant little pricks. Some are actually alright and likable.


One the warhead wouldn't have done a thing unless you could get it to the ship which would take awhile. Second the gate and equipment could easily survive the explosion.

I doubt it could survive survives a nice mark 9 nuclear bomb. And that ship was no bigger than a cruiser, couple of drones can inflict a lot of damage on a single cruiser, a Nuc would destroy a cruiser.



I'll grant you that him getting into by himself is unlikely but how is this arrogant?

Mistake, fixed.


My main complaint:

It's Dr. Kavanagh!!!

There's about 20 versions of his name on the forum - it's KAVANAGH!!!! No l's no u's!!!

Anyway, the space suit thing did indeed bug me. However, did he know the code to get to the jumper? Did Dr. Lee pipe up and tell him?

Not THAT many people are supposed to go through the Midway station at any time so there SHOULDN'T be a lot of people on the station. Therefore one jumper should normally be enough - this was a unique situation. We don't know how many jumpers there are spare in the first place. If they over stocked it with jumpers there may have been one less when they needed it to blast those asteroids in the beginning of season 4! lol.

Also, they were NOT planning on any wraith attacks - ever! It was a "secure" macro and assumed to be 100% safe - maybe an incorrect assumption, but they never planned for attacks of need for escape.

Yeah And it cocky rodney doing the programing, If I was the person signing this off, I would of made sure to quadruple the security at the station, put in a auto shut down of the system if alien life signs are detected, but hey that just me.

Well sorry about spelling Kavanagh wrong, it seems everyone else gets it wrong through, I blame the writers for choosing a difficult name to spell.



Shepperd had a thing called a radio, would taken a hell of lot more effort that putting a space suit on.

What else would they use as a lifeboat then? Earth doesn't have any transport vessels. Besides, Puddle Jumpers can hold quite a bit of people, at least 15, probably more, as seen in Rising Pt2 and Letters from Pegasus.

Also, it's spelt realize, not relies.[/QUOTE]

A puddle jumper just have then mention their several at the station, or when Shepperd ask, say the nearest one is, which would of pointed to them having more than one on the station, thus it makes me happy and fixed a design flaw in the station/plot hole.

Thanks for the spelling mistakes it fixed now.


there really are only three things i have a problem with in that ep.

1. the speed shep got into that Suit. Ordinarily I can come up with an explanation for practically any plot hole but that one really eludes me. would have been easier if they'd opened the hatch to the Jumper and found John inside already.

The only one I can come up with is one of ascended female girlfriends decided to save his ass, it the only explanation.


2. The fact that shep was able to fight off a wraith despite him already suffocating, although I suppose it is possible that wraith require much more oxygen than humans.

Possible I suppose.


3. We've seen that gates are not so easily destroyed so why not go back in the jumper and dial the gate. though a lack of power may have something to do with it anyway.

Most likely.



This episode really reads (errrr... watches) like it was written in an incredible rush, as if they didn't have time to proofread it for continuity errors and silly mistakes. I suspect that when the season 4 DVDs come out the commentary will mention something along those lines. "I only had 4 days to pen this script, so it didn't come out as well as it might have."

The problem is the primary things wrong with the episode should either been fixed during the production of the episode, surly the entire cast did not spot their was no way for Shepperd to get in and out of that space suit in time allowed. Maybe all the writing crew plus, all the production crew and plus the actors themselves were just having a off day.::S


Ok, my 2 cents...
I agree the Wraith may have been thinking the stunners would overload the door's circuits. Even the geeks inside were a little worried.

They would of **** their pants if it was just polite knock at the door. And the other problem surly the Wraith assault crew would bought something more powerful to get past these kinds of problems.


I can forgive the few things for the overall very good episode. 43 minutes isn't a lot of time to tell the story.

Their was not much of a story their anyway, ninety percent of it was teal'c and Ronon shooting wraith, or beating each other up, fixing these mistakes would of made the episode even better.


Shep got out of that suit pretty fast too.

Maybe it was an emergency suit...or something. ;)

Maybe, I think it more likely to be one of his ascended girlfriends, it the only explanation.



3.) Nuking the planet probably would have destroyed the gate and rendered the Pegasus side of the gate bridge useless. Not exactly the best first choice of tactics.


it would not. Mackay already rerouted the gate bridge through another gate. Plus we know disabling one Stargate through the use of explosives does not affect any other stargate unless the gate is connected with it, which if we set the bomb to destinate 5 seconds after sending it through, the gate would closed down, thus not affecting any other gate in the system.



4.) Sheppard might not have had the proper codes to get into the jumper airlock.

He had a radio, dah, why not used it.


5.) It's not really a problem if the station crew is three people, which it was, and even then, it was going to be two once Dr. Lee left.


Wrong, there were three in the control room. two walking in the corridor. A further two in the gate room. Their would of been a leased two to four more in reserves for shift rotation, so at least 15 , plus additional guests would have been on the station at any one time. Plus surviving in a single puddle jumper with fifteen people on board for at least two weeks, with enough food and water, it simple not plausible.


6.) That called "It's a TV show and anyone but the main cast is expendable and the main cast always kicks ass". Stargate has always been like this.
Yeah but they can get stun/beaten/tortured, all are rather fun to watch.


I've recently brought myself to accept such flaws as these in tv shows and now I enjoy them much more. You should do the same.

Nay, that mean the writers can do dumb and stupid writing. Instead of thinking through their stories and making sure the story makes sense with in the universe they have created.

Lorr
February 18th, 2008, 12:31 PM
I do understand that planets move very fast, etc., etc., but I was only offering a possibility. The calculations for the coordinates of a planet based, surface or orbiting, gate may include the orbit of the planet around it's star. A gate out in the void between two galaxies may require something a little more complex.

Just because a full explanation is not shown for each and every detail, doesn't mean there isn't one. Would the screen time taken to show the Jumper chasing the gate and trying to dial, or Sheppard getting in and out of the suit, contributed so much to the story that it was necessary? It would have been very nice to see, but TPTB can cram in only so much exposition in the alloted time. Science fiction requires some suspension of disblief.

Avenger
February 18th, 2008, 12:32 PM
Umm... air doesn't move instantly. It takes time for air to completely evacuate an area. So once he opened the closet, the air pressure inside would normalize with that of the immediate area of the station (in which the pressure would be rapidly, but not instantly, dropping). He could then step inside and close the door. The air would be thin, but humans can survive for a while on very thin air. Not for a long while mind you, but it was only like a minute or 2 before they repressurized. Even in a vacuum a human can last 30 seconds to 2 minutes (though with damage). He'd have been fine.


Sheppard was feeling the effects of the lack of air after fighting the Wraith. Also, the air pressure in the closet would have been greater than the pressure outside the closet. As soon as the closet is opened, the pressure would rapidly equalize, leaving the air level in the closet exactly the same as the air level outside. No, finding a suit with it's own air supply was the best thing Sheppard could have come up with.

Lauriel
February 18th, 2008, 05:15 PM
I know this is a show BUT Sheppard joining on the whole fight/betting was so annoying, isnít he a Col. In the USA? I know there are civilians and all, but were those he draw the line? :mckay:
Not really. As to actually setting up the fight- if he didn't, they would have fought anyway, only without anyone to intervene if it got too intense. This way it was monitored, assistance was nearby, and because of the warrior ethics of both of them, they were able to gauge each other and begin to develop a modicum of respect, which was later developed more through fighting together against the Wraith. Even Sam recognised this, in spite of having her own reasons (which I respect, too) for stopping the fight, she apologised later to Te'alc for not letting him continue. Given all of that, John joining in the betting that was occurring anyway is entirely in character, and harmless. It is also a part of his character that he would have stopped the fight regardless of betting if there was a real need to.


The whole SGC was with out a commander, and the first to woke up were the politicians and the technicians, what happen to the soldiers and SGTeams.
This is only my two cents worth, but they entered the room in the first place because they heard a loud noise. When they entered, Coolige was on the floor with his chair upturned. I got the impression that he'd toppled off his chair, and that was what brought him to conciousness early. :)


Sheppard was feeling the effects of the lack of air after fighting the Wraith. Also, the air pressure in the closet would have been greater than the pressure outside the closet. As soon as the closet is opened, the pressure would rapidly equalize, leaving the air level in the closet exactly the same as the air level outside. No, finding a suit with it's own air supply was the best thing Sheppard could have come up with.
Agreed with the airtight closet. As to the suit, yes, I agree that there are some plot inconsistencies there, however given that Shep was so out of it that he couldn't even call out to the others when they passed in front of him (McKay only noticed him when he heard the sound of the oxygen) then it is plausible that he could use his remaining strength to haul himself into the suit. He might have missed a button or two, figuratively speaking, but adreneline and survival instinct can't be overlooked either.

As to him using the radio - well, agreed, that would have been his best solution. However when you're oxygen starved and have been punched in the head by a Wraith a few times, you can be forgiven for not thinking coherently. :)

Mack_1
February 18th, 2008, 08:45 PM
[QUOTE=Lauriel;7755765]Not really. As to actually setting up the fight- if he didn't, they would have fought anyway, only without anyone to intervene if it got too intense. This way it was monitored, assistance was nearby, and because of the warrior ethics of both of them, they were able to gauge each other and begin to develop a modicum of respect, which was later developed more through fighting together against the Wraith. Even Sam recognised this, in spite of having her own reasons (which I respect, too) for stopping the fight, she apologised later to Te'alc for not letting him continue. Given all of that, John joining in the betting that was occurring anyway is entirely in character, and harmless. It is also a part of his character that he would have stopped the fight regardless of betting if there was a real need to.
yeah I could agree with this, but his reaction when Sam intervine wasn't like the someone just supervising, he was to munch into the fight.



This is only my two cents worth, but they entered the room in the first place because they heard a loud noise. When they entered, Coolige was on the floor with his chair upturned. I got the impression that he'd toppled off his chair, and that was what brought him to conciousness early. :)
Could be, but remember when they when to the control room? all the tecs. were awake and they were some of the first ones to get hit by the wave that knock them out.

Lauriel
February 19th, 2008, 02:45 AM
yeah I could agree with this, but his reaction when Sam intervine wasn't like the someone just supervising, he was to munch into the fight.

That actually compliments my point. He was most definitely against Ronon drawing his weapon earlier. We have also seen him intervene in arguments with his team (Rodney and, well, most people) and fights (Teyla and Bates). So we have seen that he will intervene if necessary. The fact that he was "into the fight" shows that he considered it still to be safe, given the abilities of the two fighting. And his combat and command experience makes him reasonably knowledgeable - at least, there is nothing in canon to dispute this assessment.



Could be, but remember when they when to the control room? all the tecs. were awake and they were some of the first ones to get hit by the wave that knock them out.
Again, this works in with my suggestion (which is only that, a suggestion :)). If they got stunned first, you would expect them to be amongst the first to revive. The exception was the poor bloke who fell off his chair. ;)

Phenix
February 19th, 2008, 07:28 AM
You are overlooking Sheps' assault on the control room. The wraith were able to override a security lock out but couldn't figure out how to lock a door.

There were a TON of plot holes in this episode but it was still enjoyable. If they managed to fix all the plots holes then you would have had the makings of a feature film which wouldn't be such a bad idea if and only if the Wraith were able to establish a beach head on Earth.

Lorr
February 19th, 2008, 06:52 PM
That actually compliments my point. He was most definitely against Ronon drawing his weapon earlier. We have also seen him intervene in arguments with his team (Rodney and, well, most people) and fights (Teyla and Bates). So we have seen that he will intervene if necessary. The fact that he was "into the fight" shows that he considered it still to be safe, given the abilities of the two fighting. And his combat and command experience makes him reasonably knowledgeable - at least, there is nothing in canon to dispute this assessment. I think Shep had a deep suspicion that if Ronon and Teal'c didn't sort it out immediately, it would have happened later, maybe on Earth. He knew Ronon was "upset" at the whole idea of the interview and it was felt he needed a babysitter. It was far better they dealt with it and got it over with.


You are overlooking Sheps' assault on the control room. The wraith were able to override a security lock out but couldn't figure out how to lock a door.
The Wratih were probably just thinking the humans wouldn't get that far, so did not need to lock the door.

ori soldier
February 21st, 2008, 02:12 PM
6. Wraith being so pathetically weak through out the episode, anyone other than a main cast character they die instantly, then suddenly come a main character, oops they loose their intelligent, I mean seriously how many wraith do they have to see dead before they realize their guys with guns round the corner shooting wraith as they appear, before they start to realize whats going on and go the other way or take cover and shoot.

.

I completly agree with you i was actually bored during the action "sequences" which involved sheppard ronon or teal'c running round a corner seeing wraith and just standing there shooting they didnt cover they just stood there shooting it was bullcrap i mean the wraith would have killed them and also its just not exciting if u watch sg-1 i.e ep heroes and exodus in the firefights the team is taking cover, running, wipping out and shooting not just standing there shooting it was the most measly action i have ever seen <Snip>

Avenger
February 21st, 2008, 11:56 PM
In either of the SG shows, you can count on the type of action sequences we saw in Midway in any episode that involves the team fighting in corridors and hallways. The only difference this time was that instead of it just being Teal'C (in SG-1 episodes) or Ronon (in SGA episodes), it was two of them running around corners with guns blazing.

Skydiver
February 22nd, 2008, 05:16 PM
Complain all you want, but keep it civil or keep it to yourself please

gopher65
February 22nd, 2008, 08:50 PM
Complain all you want, but keep it civil or keep it to yourself please
I try:).

Sarge300491
March 15th, 2008, 03:17 AM
ok a few things i didn't get about this:

1. As soon as the air was being sucked out, the wraith started dropping, yet Sheppard was still able to move for a bit longer and able to fight off the wraith and kill him.... he then drops to the floor and makes it into a suit?

2. The puddle jumper is scooped up onto the deadalus, and the door opens? what did Ronon rip the door open....

3. Mackay tells Ronon that Shepperd sealed himself inside and then opened the door and he is sleeping..... if he sealed himself inside then how can Mackay wave his arm and open the door?

Kanetsidohi
September 10th, 2008, 10:43 AM
I agree with what you say although what amused me more was that Sheppard was stronger than a Wraith while he was suffocating. Ok, maybe he's a diver fan, and can hold his breath a lot :) but he was about to pass out, and even so he managed to get inside the space suit? Well, ok :D

But what really upset me are all the dead soldiers, I know is needed for the story but for once I would like someone to knowledge the lost. It's like what happened with the soldier that died along with Carson, I love Carson but I can't help thinking about the poor soldier, did he got the same fancy farewell?

It may have problems but, for me, this episode was far, far better than the last I watched.