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View Full Version : This is why Earth can't have nice things!



Esquin
February 16th, 2008, 04:53 AM
People keep blowing up all our new toys!

Are these really the best of the best? A pair of lazy guards and a couple of techs who barely know their pinky toe from a power conduit! And then to get midway blown up. It's just disappointing that Earth can't ever have nice things.

JackHarkness_Hot
February 16th, 2008, 04:58 AM
I sense an "Ann Robinson"-moment (Weakest Link) here...

"Who can't tell the difference between their pinky toe and a power conduit? Who needs to go back home and coward away from the Wraith? Vote off the weakest link!"

"Ann.. I'm voting Kavanagh cos he blew up our Midway station.."


:lol: - sorry, I'm bored, lol

The_Carpenter
February 16th, 2008, 05:19 AM
I sense an "Ann Robinson"-moment (Weakest Link) here...

"Who can't tell the difference between their pinky toe and a power conduit? Who needs to go back home and coward away from the Wraith? Vote off the weakest link!"

"Ann.. I'm voting Kavanagh cos he blew up our Midway station.."


:lol: - sorry, I'm bored, lol

lol, I would not like to be Kavanagh right now, he'll never get another job related to the Stargate programme

P-90_177
February 16th, 2008, 05:20 AM
we keep our ships for the most part. only two have been destroyed so far.

Esquin
February 16th, 2008, 05:23 AM
So we keep the things that make us the kings of the universe but when it comes to something that just cuts travel time, then it has to go.

Yeah that's logical :P

reddevil18
February 16th, 2008, 05:25 AM
we keep our ships for the most part. only two have been destroyed so far.

Yeah, 2 out of 5. :S Not that great a record, if you ask me.

elbo
February 16th, 2008, 06:16 AM
I don't like Kavanough, but the destruction of Midway station is not entirely his foul. Actually i'm not sure if bypassing the critical systems and shooting the PG-gate was not necesarely in those circumstances. And it remains a mistery how Kavanough knew that code without being informed about all the stuff the code does.

Maby we should assign blame to the poor security and protocols on the station and how the scientists there cannot recognize Atlantis Gate signatures by other PG gates. Without the corect management Midway was a huge security risk and its destruction is even convenient.

But my big issue is how came a race of people (us) with the most performant ships in known universe is still in constant defensive and pasivity and the Wraith which are in a clear disadvantage inflict us so much damage. What the hack we are waiting for? For Michael or Todd to came with a briliant plan to wipe us out? Or maby we wait for all the PG humans to be feed off and the Wraith to came after us like a last resort. We have Daedalus class ships, maby a good ally in Travelers and a way to track the Wraith hives and stealth and beaming capabilities and there is no justification why we wait for the Wraith to find countermessures. From military perspective this is not acceptable.

reddevil18
February 16th, 2008, 06:56 AM
earth still has the Asgard tech and our ships are still in one piece for now :P

the midway station was underused by the writers so it was time to blow it up
Well, thank God we had a fair amount of episodes in Atlantis itself this season, or else it might have been time to blow it up...:S

jasminaGo
February 16th, 2008, 07:48 AM
Well, thank God we had a fair amount of episodes in Atlantis itself this season, or else it might have been time to blow it up...:S


Now there is an idea :lol:

GeneralLuckyAC
February 16th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Next time people!!, put a damn iris on it! on both gates so the ori dont come in and try to do another crusade there.

Vala_M
February 16th, 2008, 09:35 AM
The weirdest thing is that there was originally an iris, at least on the Milky Way gate in "Adrift" but the writers seemingly went against that.

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/401/html/adrift%5F0221.html
This one shows the dual-gate screen with the Pegasus gate visible and the Milky Way one to the far left
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/401/html/adrift%5F0222.html
The second picture shows an iris on the Milky Way gate.

So the whole premise for the episode is kind of wrong.

Vala,

jefferyb
February 16th, 2008, 09:56 AM
I am usually not one to complain about the glory that is stargate But , come on that was the weakest excuse for a midway infiltration and distructions ever.

Major_Griff
February 16th, 2008, 10:43 AM
I'm like 99% sure that when McKay says no need for an iris or shield in the previously segment, that it was added in.

IMForeman
February 16th, 2008, 11:04 AM
I sense an "Ann Robinson"-moment (Weakest Link) here...

"Who can't tell the difference between their pinky toe and a power conduit? Who needs to go back home and coward away from the Wraith? Vote off the weakest link!"

"Ann.. I'm voting Kavanagh cos he blew up our Midway station.."


:lol: - sorry, I'm bored, lol

Nah, you've gotta keep him around till the final round. If you want to keep your win, you want to going up against him. He's stupid... doesn't even know the Princess Rosyline's surname. Tactical voting, Jack. Tactical voting.

GeneralLuckyAC
February 16th, 2008, 11:05 AM
yeah i remember that episode and he never said "no need for a iris"

Mitchell82
February 16th, 2008, 11:10 AM
I'm like 99% sure that when McKay says no need for an iris or shield in the previously segment, that it was added in.

Yeah it was. As to the topic Kavanaugh is an ass and even though he was responsible for Midway blowing up it was not entirely his fault.

Major_Griff
February 16th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Yeah it was. As to the topic Kavanaugh is an ass and even though he was responsible for Midway blowing up it was not entirely his fault.

Agreed, and as as others have said, they should have set the self destruct themselves as soon as they lost the gateroom.

Mitchell82
February 16th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Agreed, and as as others have said, they should have set the self destruct themselves as soon as they lost the gateroom.

No they wanted to try and save the station first.

Vala_M
February 16th, 2008, 11:40 AM
I'm like 99% sure that when McKay says no need for an iris or shield in the previously segment, that it was added in.

He doesn't say it.

Vala,

Mitchell82
February 16th, 2008, 12:08 PM
He doesn't say it.

Vala,

Uh yes he does in the beginning of the ep in the "Previously on Stargate Atlantis."

JSPuddlejumper
February 16th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Midway can easily be rebuilt.

No if Earth lost Atlantis...

Or if Earth lost a 304, the time to build another one 1 year or so, large cost etc...

nx01a
February 16th, 2008, 06:59 PM
I loved the Midway station! Well, with Carter going, they won't need it for the opening credits anymore, so...
The reason we lose out nice things is because we don't know how to care them. Or secure them. Or we lend them out to idiots, like Kavanagh.

Dobberman
February 16th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Uh yes he does in the beginning of the ep in the "Previously on Stargate Atlantis."

But he never actually said it before, so by putting it in the "Previously on stargate" they basically lied

PG15
February 16th, 2008, 07:27 PM
I really don't think those people were "the best of the best". Why would you need those guys in an iron box in the middle of nowhere?

nx01a
February 16th, 2008, 07:32 PM
Kavanagh was being given control of one of the most important installations Earth has and he considered it beneath him. That's obviously the way the SGC/IOA/etc. thought about it or else, fully operational or not, it would have been better staffed and guarded. Macro or no macro, both gates would have an iris and full IDC protocols. It's one of the lines of defense against threats from another galaxy and it's treated like a joke. In the event of something going wrong with one of the Stargates along the way, Midway would probably have to be the staging ground for a rescue attempt. Or what if there were problems aboard a 304 in the void? Earth got sloppy with this one and got burned because of it. Here's hoping for more common sense with Midway II. Ok, here's hoping for a Midway II.

Esquin
February 16th, 2008, 07:49 PM
I really don't think those people were "the best of the best". Why would you need those guys in an iron box in the middle of nowhere?

The entire SGC program is supposed to only have the best of the best. When you really think about it unfit people like DR Lee shouldn't even be allowed off-world. Sorry but it's the truth, you'd expect them to crew the midway station and the 304's with people who live up to NASA shuttle crew standards. But I digress.

Why do we get to keep the ships that make us kings of all existence while the little space station that's basically doing nothing is blown up. It just seems a little silly to me. I get the dark feeling they're trying to do but come on, blow up the 304's. All of them, give a bit of desperation back instead of making us rulers of all that is and was.

nx01a
February 16th, 2008, 07:56 PM
rulers of all that is and was.
And will be. We are the 5th race.;)
And I don't think Bill Lee is anywhere near incompetent. He's a scientist and he's very good at what he does. Kavanagh should really be reassigned to work on Earth, like Bates, like all the annoying characters. No, shot.
I do agree that everyone who works in SGC or Atlantis, etc. should be heavily trained both physically and militarily. Lee with the hand gun was a prime example. Even Rodney's carrying heavy weapons like a pro. None of this 'cardio' nonsense from Keller, or terror at crossing a perfectly stable rope bridge. It's a given: if you work with the SGC, you'll end up in firefights with the enemy far away from the luxury of a jumper or beaming tech.

reddevil18
February 16th, 2008, 08:00 PM
come on, blow up the 304's. All of them, give a bit of desperation back instead of making us rulers of all that is and was.
I disagree. It would be the completely wrong thing to do. If that ever happened, thenI'd know that the writers are desperate. The show presented the technological evolution of Earth throughout the years in which the SG program has been operational. Perhaps the leaps in tech have been a bit too big, but they've always come thanks to outside interference, mainly the Asgard. They just can't go back now. That's how it is. If they can't find a way to work around this, then perhaps they've run out of steam and it's time to put an end to it all. Personally, I think that, instead of bringing in a bigger, more powerful enemy and wiping out our fleet or something, once again making us huge underdogs(similar to the Ori), the best thing would be to scale it down a bit. At least for a while. Focus on the "personal" enemies, the ones with a "face", like Michael, Todd and even Kolya(hey, they said they MIGHT bring him back). More close encounters with Michael's bugs and other similar planetray matters, instead of things blowing up in space. At least for a while. Like I said in the season 5 desires thread, a great ground battle is even better than a space battle at times, so it wouldn't really mean less excitement.
Basically, my idea would be to work around the ships and all that for a while, but without going the route of Quarantine or Trio(which were good, but nothing worth doing again), instead of completely taking away any kind of advancement the human race has made within the last 11 years.

nx01a
February 16th, 2008, 08:03 PM
Earth's nice things aren't being shared with the people of Earth. The SGC/IOA's being stingy.
'Careful reverse engineering', my foot. I want my flying car now! Until I get it, no pretty space stations for you!

reddevil18
February 16th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Earth's nice things aren't being shared with the people of Earth. The SGC/IOA's being stingy.
I want my flying car and, until I get it, no pretty space stations for you!
:lol: The Asgard didn't give them the specs for that one...:p
"I'm still waiting to meet an ancient race that's invented the car"...Well said, John, well said.

JSPuddlejumper
February 17th, 2008, 04:03 AM
Interesting to see how they will bring in more powerful enemies:

How can you have more powerful enemies, when you already fought the Ori and their uber powerful ships?

1) Ori 2) MW Replicators, Asurans 3) Annubis, Wraith 4) Aphosis 5) Regular G'ould.

Unless SGC is going to have hand to hand combat with Ascended beings...

They have exhuasted the more powerful stream. It is time to bring in beings that are advanced or semi-advanced that are not really enemies, but smart opponents.

jenks
February 17th, 2008, 04:15 AM
Have they actually said that they're bringing in more powerful enemies?

JSPuddlejumper
February 17th, 2008, 04:59 AM
There are no more powerful enemies than Ascended beings (Ori).

So I think they have exhausted that stream of 'more powerful' enemies stream on SG.

So they will bring in either Micaheal's ridiculous and lame Alien knock offs for a few epiosodes, or possibly a new advanced race (just entering Pegasus?) as the new 'enemies' for Season 5.

YutheGreat
February 17th, 2008, 05:12 AM
lol, I would not like to be Kavanagh right now, he'll never get another job related to the Stargate programme

Kavanagh is always funny but this is the biggest bobo anyone has done so far. I mean Bill has made a mistake in Arthur's Mantle and Fletcher from AVengers has made some mistakes but this is the biggest mistake anyone has ever done.

reddevil18
February 17th, 2008, 05:50 AM
Kavanagh is always funny but this is the biggest bobo anyone has done so far. I mean Bill has made a mistake in Arthur's Mantle and Fletcher from AVengers has made some mistakes but this is the biggest mistake anyone has ever done.
Well, there was that one small mistake with Daniel telling the Ori all about the Milky Way. Oh, and John waking up the Wraith. And Rodney destroying a solar system...Well, you get the point...

JackHarkness_Hot
February 17th, 2008, 05:51 AM
Kavanagh is so not funny, YutheGreat! :D

He's so bad and a total moron that deserved to be fed by the Wraith, or get flushed out of the airlock or get tortured by Baal...

:lol:

MechaThor
February 17th, 2008, 06:15 AM
People keep blowing up all our new toys!

Are these really the best of the best? A pair of lazy guards and a couple of techs who barely know their pinky toe from a power conduit! And then to get midway blown up. It's just disappointing that Earth can't ever have nice things.

Well in truth we should not have alot of this nice toys anyways, I mean look how long its takern to build the International Space Stataion (its still not finnished), Yet we can build a battle cruiser in a few months and the midway station in the void between galaxies within a year!
This is what happens when you rush things, they blow up!

What I don't understand is why Earth don't just go buy some nice new Ha'taks from the Jaffa? Or take some from a minor Goa'uld? That would increase Earths Fleet size, firepower and save some money. I mean think how much money must have been wasted on the Midway Station! Instead they could of popped two gates onto a Hatak (for free) and fly it out there with an upgarded hyperdrive, easy.

reddevil18
February 17th, 2008, 06:30 AM
Well in truth we should not have alot of this nice toys anyways, I mean look how long its takern to build the International Space Stataion (its still not finnished), Yet we can build a battle cruiser in a few months and the midway station in the void between galaxies within a year!
This is what happens when you rush things, they blow up!

What I don't understand is why Earth don't just go buy some nice new Ha'taks from the Jaffa? Or take some from a minor Goa'uld? That would increase Earths Fleet size, firepower and save some money. I mean think how much money must have been wasted on the Midway Station! Instead they could of popped two gates onto a Hatak (for free) and fly it out there with an upgarded hyperdrive, easy.
The ISS isn't being built by using alien tech. They have to do it the all fashioned way: transport one module at a time once in a while, when they launch a space mission. Seriously, the comparison shouldn't even be made.
And why would the Jaffa sell them ships? And what exactly would they ask in return? And yes, they'd increase the fleet size, but what would be the use, since Ha'Taks are inferior to Hives? A couple of shots from a Hive and the Ha'Tak's gone. True, in greater numbers, they'd be able to overtake the Hive, but a lot of Ha'Taks would be destroyed. That would mean that they just threw away whatever they paid for them. And that's not even mentioning the human cost. So, why not build a new 304, complete with the Asgard upgrades? It may take a while, but just one of 'em is better than a fairly large Ha'Tak fleet.

Vala_M
February 17th, 2008, 06:44 AM
Uh yes he does in the beginning of the ep in the "Previously on Stargate Atlantis."

I meant in the original episode "The Return, Pt. 1" it wasn't said so it doesn't count being said in the "Previously..." thing because that was added in add to the fact that in "Adrift" we saw an iris closed screen on the Midway Space Station dialing screens.

Vala,

MechaThor
February 17th, 2008, 06:44 AM
The ISS isn't being built by using alien tech. They have to do it the all fashioned way: transport one module at a time once in a while, when they launch a space mission. Seriously, the comparison shouldn't even be made.
And why would the Jaffa sell them ships? And what exactly would they ask in return? And yes, they'd increase the fleet size, but what would be the use, since Ha'Taks are inferior to Hives? A couple of shots from a Hive and the Ha'Tak's gone. True, in greater numbers, they'd be able to overtake the Hive, but a lot of Ha'Taks would be destroyed. That would mean that they just threw away whatever they paid for them. And that's not even mentioning the human cost. So, why not build a new 304, complete with the Asgard upgrades? It may take a while, but just one of 'em is better than a fairly large Ha'Tak fleet.

Not all Hat'aks are rubbish, newer Anubis upgarded ones could beat an Asgard ship! Then all we would need to do is put the asgard modifications into the Hataks! Hell Ha'taks have done more damage to 304s than Hives ever have! Also who said anthing about Hataks vs Hives? We could just use them as Earth defences or like I said, use one as the new midway Station!

its bigger and stronger, plus has weapons and hyperdrives, They are set-up almost like space stations and we know they can have onboard gates and fit pubble jumpers! an Easy and cheap new Midway.

Its true we have alien technology, but we don't use that technlolgy to build the stuff! Earth just adds the alien tec on! Its still got to be built by hand, bit by bit, and with alien upgardes surly that would make the build time longer? as it would be more complex!
I mean it takes well over year to plan, build and test just one tiny Space Rover to land on Mars, yet we can build, plan and test a galactic capable hyperdrive in no time at all! let along understand how to work the alien tec we used to build it in the 1rst place!

So again if you build a nice thing too fast, its going to blow up!

reddevil18
February 17th, 2008, 06:53 AM
Not all Hat'aks are rubbish, newer Anubis upgarded ones could beat an Asgard ship! Then all we would need to do is put the asgard modifications into the Hataks! Hell Ha'taks have done more damage to 304s than Hives ever have! Also who said anthiung about Hataks vs Hives? We could just use them as Earth defences or like I said, use one as the new midway Station!

its bigger and stronger, plus has weapons and hyperdrives, They are set-up almost like space stations and we know they can have onboard gates and fit pubble jumpers! Easy and cheap.

As true we have alien technology, but we don't use that technlolgy to build the stuff! Earth just adds the alien tec on! Its still got to be built by hand, bit by bit, and with alien upgardes surly that would make the build time longer? as it would be more complex!
I mean it takes well over year to plan, build and test just one tiny Space Rover to land on Mars, yet we can build, plan and test a hyperdrive in no time at all! let along understand how to work the alien tec we used to build it in the 1rst place!

So again if you build a nice thing too fast, its going to blow up!
It'll only blow up if the writers are stuck and don't know what else to do. Excitement and all that. Not to mention the fact that none of our destroyed ships/stations/whatever came about because of build deffects - it was either human error or they were simply overpowered. So, again, the "if you build a nice thing too fast, its going to blow up!" argument doesn't stand. The build quality is quite high.
And the ships are used to defend our planet. You'd think they actually care more about them than a damn Mars Rover, no?
And we don't know that the pieces are "built by hand"...Most likely, they're using the Asgard tech the way Sam did in Unending. Once they have the raw material, they can simply "replicate" entire hull sections into existance. And even if they don't, I imagine that entire corporations are used to build the things. Just like in...Covenant, was it? Private corporations are hired to build different sections of the ship. They don't know what it is and what it's used for, they just do it. They all work on it simultaneously. The sections are shipped to the main assembly site and they put it all together - again, probably with the help of Asgard beaming tech.

Vala_M
February 17th, 2008, 06:57 AM
And why would the Jaffa sell them ships? And what exactly would they ask in return? And yes, they'd increase the fleet size, but what would be the use, since Ha'Taks are inferior to Hives? A couple of shots from a Hive and the Ha'Tak's gone. True, in greater numbers, they'd be able to overtake the Hive, but a lot of Ha'Taks would be destroyed. That would mean that they just threw away whatever they paid for them. And that's not even mentioning the human cost. So, why not build a new 304, complete with the Asgard upgrades? It may take a while, but just one of 'em is better than a fairly large Ha'Tak fleet.

After seeing the way the Jaffa view Earth as of season 9, I stopped asking that question as well. And another problem is that they would want to be paid in Naqahdah which is very valuable to Earth.


Don't be silly people in the Stargate Universe don't go to the toilet, which is why there are no toilets anywhere in Atlantis, the SCG on Cargo ships and Hataks!

Actually, they HAVE shown bathrooms in the SGC in "Ascension"

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s5/503/html/5x03%5F369.html

Vala,

Lord batchi ball
February 17th, 2008, 07:00 AM
Kavanagh was being given control of one of the most important installations Earth has and he considered it beneath him. That's obviously the way the SGC/IOA/etc. thought about it or else, fully operational or not, it would have been better staffed and guarded. Macro or no macro, both gates would have an iris and full IDC protocols. It's one of the lines of defense against threats from another galaxy and it's treated like a joke. In the event of something going wrong with one of the Stargates along the way, Midway would probably have to be the staging ground for a rescue attempt. Or what if there were problems aboard a 304 in the void? Earth got sloppy with this one and got burned because of it. Here's hoping for more common sense with Midway II. Ok, here's hoping for a Midway II.

Well I thought Kavanagh should be stationed at the NORTH POLE. Away from basically everything and everyone. Counting caribu.

MechaThor
February 17th, 2008, 07:06 AM
Actually, they HAVE shown bathrooms in the SGC in "Ascension"

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s5/503/html/5x03%5F369.html

Vala,

Oh yes I remember now! my bad, I stand corrected, thanks you. All we need now is a Hatak toilet!

Wait a sec... is this not from the other Thread?


It'll only blow up if the writers are stuck and don't know what else to do. Excitement and all that. Not to mention the fact that none of our destroyed ships/stations/whatever came about because of build deffects - it was either human error or they were simply overpowered. So, again, the "if you build a nice thing too fast, its going to blow up!" argument doesn't stand. The build quality is quite high.
And the ships are used to defend our planet. You'd think they actually care more about them than a damn Mars Rover, no?
And we don't know that the pieces are "built by hand"...Most likely, they're using the Asgard tech the way Sam did in Unending. Once they have the raw material, they can simply "replicate" entire hull sections into existance. And even if they don't, I imagine that entire corporations are used to build the things. Just like in...Covenant, was it? Private corporations are hired to build different sections of the ship. They don't know what it is and what it's used for, they just do it. They all work on it simultaneously. The sections are shipped to the main assembly site and they put it all together - again, probably with the help of Asgard beaming tech.

I was using that as an exsample! It takes top scientists and companies over a year to build just that one tiny Robot, Even if the ships are built to befend Earth, They would still take alot longer to build! Atleast longer than your average space prode. Also when the 304s and the Midway where being built Earth did not have the Asgard upgrades and the Asagrd matter builder from "Unending".

Anyways, no matter what you say I will still think Earth builds its stuff too fast, I mean its always great to see a new 304, but a part of me will always think "When did they start building that one?", as this is just my point of view!

jyh
February 17th, 2008, 09:16 AM
I think the big mistake in creating Midway was in relying on ONE PERSON (Rodney) to create all or most of the macros or systems or equations, or whatever. Obviously they weren't as infallible as he thought. When it comes to scientific things, usually a lot of minds are better than just one (oversight), so they can ensure that all problems are foreseen and dealt with. I don't think the IOA--not to mention all the other countries represented in it--would agree to having such a monumental task completed by a single member country, let alone a single egoistic individual. No way that all that work, including gate programs and security systems, could or should possibly be constructed by one single person.

I really do hope the Midway station is rebuilt. Obviously they now know of all sorts of security upgrades that need to be incorporated.

Mitchell82
February 17th, 2008, 09:29 AM
But he never actually said it before, so by putting it in the "Previously on stargate" they basically lied

How do you figure? I don't see it as lying.

reddevil18
February 17th, 2008, 09:32 AM
How do you figure? I don't see it as lying.
Indeed. It's "manipulating the truth"...:p

Mitchell82
February 17th, 2008, 09:34 AM
Indeed. It's "manipulating the truth"...:p

Touche.

garhkal
February 17th, 2008, 01:21 PM
I sense an "Ann Robinson"-moment (Weakest Link) here...

"Who can't tell the difference between their pinky toe and a power conduit? Who needs to go back home and coward away from the Wraith? Vote off the weakest link!"

"Ann.. I'm voting Kavanagh cos he blew up our Midway station.."


I love the Weakest link.. And therefore love the comparrison here.


Kavanagh is so not funny, YutheGreat! :D

He's so bad and a total moron that deserved to be fed by the Wraith, or get flushed out of the airlock or get tortured by Baal...

:lol:

I was hoping that the lead wraith fed on him rather than that other nameless scientist..

Dobberman
February 17th, 2008, 02:03 PM
How do you figure? I don't see it as lying.

Because it was never previously on Stargate and they said it was. And this time it wasn't a joke like in 200 ;)

YutheGreat
February 18th, 2008, 05:40 AM
Kavanagh is so not funny, YutheGreat! :D

He's so bad and a total moron that deserved to be fed by the Wraith, or get flushed out of the airlock or get tortured by Baal...

:lol:

True but his stupidity and cowardice is what makes him funny.

Gelasius
February 18th, 2008, 06:29 AM
i thought it was standard protocol to engage the iris or in that case the sheild if there is an unscheduled off world activation.


Defiant