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Skydiver
February 13th, 2008, 05:05 PM
Welcome to the Season Five 'Complaints and Misgivings' thread.

To lay out a few ground rules:

This thread, and its mate, 'Season Five: Compliments and Praise' thread are to be the ONLY season specific limited focus threads. Any other, what we would have termed as general 'pro' or 'anti' threads will not be allowed and will be closed down.

The rules of this thread are simple. This is a 'safety zone' for people to express their complaints and misgivings without feeling like they are being forced to defend those opinions. As such, if you disagree with a post, comments such as 'you stupid idiot, season five is the best ever' or 'only idiots don’t love season five' will NOT be tolerated.

ANY AND ALL COMPLAINTS ABOUT SEASON FIVE ARE ON TOPIC HERE.

Bear in mind, you may be complaining that Chuck has too few lines, but someone else's complaint may be that he has too many. Both comments are on topic. And both comments MUST be respected and tolerated. We do not want to see things like 'This is only for complaints about (one certain aspect/character) go away.' People do not have to justify their complaints.

While you are free to complain about any aspect of the SHOW that you do not like, you are NOT allowed to complain about other fans, other forums or members of the cast and crew. You can complain about the CHARACTERS and what they do however.

For example:

'Joe Mallozzi is a twit' is inappropriate.
'I don't like Joe's writing' is okay.

'I'm glad that Amanda has been gotten rid of' is inappropriate.
'Thank goodness Sam has been written off the show' is okay.

Characters are not real people, they are fictional representations, therefore are not availed the same protection as real people. I know that, as a fan of a particular character or actor, it can be difficult to see people making unkind remarks about the character; however it is not against the rules, so you must accept it.

Terms like 'TIIC' (the idiots in charge) are not permissible. Anyone making remarks with terms such as this, even hiding it under spoiler tags, will be a candidate for moderation.

If you see a post that is inappropriate, your job, as it is, is to REPORT THE POST or ignore it and move on. It is not your job to police others and there is nothing wrong with using the report post feature.

We will also not tolerate things such as fans spying on fans. Can we stop you from spying? No. But we can stop you from talking about it. Comments like 'that serves those stupid chuck fans' are inappropriate. It falls under talking about other fans and is not allowed.

To put the rules in a nutshell….complain about the show to your hearts content. But do it while respecting others.

Do not disparage another's opinion.
Do not mock or belittle others.
Do not call others names.

That stuff is off topic. The topic is 'Complaints and Misgivings About Season Five', and it will be enforced.

How will we enforce it?

Glad you asked. :)

We will be using the infraction system. For those of you that have received infractions, until this point in time, we simply used them to communicate issues with posters in a way that allowed us to document the original post, as well as what we say to you in our PM's. The infraction system has a point system linked to it, that, until this point, we've ignored.

But we will be using it now.

Anyone breaking the on topic rules in the Complaints or Complilment thread will be given an infraction. You all know the rules, thus there will not be warnings issued. This post is your warning.

On the rare occasions that we see brand new posters misstepping in the narrow focus treads, they will receive ONE warning. This warning does not apply to our current and active members. You folks that have been here for months and years and have hundreds of posts, you know better.

Infraction One: You are 'gagged' for three days. Which means that you will be placed on read only status. You may make posts, but those posts will be held in the mod queue until your three days are over.

Infraction Two: You are gagged for six days and any posts you make while you are gagged will be deleted.

Infraction Three: You are gagged for two weeks and you will be counseled by a member of the mod team. You will discuss with them what the issues are and see what the problem is. This is also the point where the other mods will get involved. We'll discuss this particular poster's issues amongst ourselves and see what we can do to help.

Infraction Four: You are gagged for a month.

Infraction Five: You are permantly gagged. If you are found to be creating a sock puppet to circumvent the gagging, it will be banned.

While infractions – to this point – have not been cumulative, in the Complaints or Compliments threads, they WILL be cumulative. Any behavior infractions earned in these threads will never expire.

It does sound harsh, however those of you that have never had a post snipped or deleted, you likely won't notice anything different. Those of you that have gotten to know the mods well, you will need to be making adjustments to your behavior.

These infractions will apply ONLY to the limited focus threads. Thus, if you get gagged for 3 days in a Complaint or Compliment thread and then get a sig rule violation in another thread, it won't add up to six days of gagging.

However, if we do see people taking their bicker matches out of the narrow focus threads and into others, we will react. Talking about other fans behind their backs, calling them names and the like is against the rules of this forum and will be dealt with.

We don't want to lose people. However, over the past several months, the nastiness has gotten so horrible and so pervasive, that we really have no other choice. Posters are welcome as long as they follow the rules, however, out of fairness to the majority of our posters, if posters will not behave and respect others, they will need to find somewhere else to play.

________________________________________

Suzotchka
February 13th, 2008, 05:29 PM
I have to say that my biggest concern about S5 is all the cast/character changes. I think it may be too many too fast. I think the show may loose it's cohesiveness.

poundpuppy29
February 13th, 2008, 05:40 PM
I have major issues with the cast changes too over the past 2 seasons

Dr Weir
February 13th, 2008, 05:40 PM
It’s already become very random, now I think TPTB want to add a comedy role by having Woolsey. This is what concerns me the most. Because I was very disappointed the 200th episode in which the silliness got out of control, and I think the same is planned with Woolsey. I can't see any other reason or putting him in charge. Either that or there’ll be lots of annoying conflicts with other characters who disagree with him. It’ll probably be a mixture of the two. I always found the character very dull and boring and can’t imagine someone like him running a beautiful, bustling city like Atlantis.

poundpuppy29
February 13th, 2008, 06:39 PM
I just wish TPTB appreciated the Weir character.

ToasterOnFire
February 13th, 2008, 06:43 PM
First, thank you mods for agreeing to this thread and its sibling! :)

Second, I have a laundry list of things I'm worried about with s5, including:

-Woolsey in charge.
-No Weir.
-Too many new characters for TPTB to handle.
-How they handle Carson's story.
-More Keller.

I'll probably go into more detail later. And unfortunately, with how the changes were handled in s4 I'm not really interested in seeing how the changes in s5 play out. It will take a miracle to draw me back into the show, unfortunately. :(

Jackie
February 13th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Thank you for this thread!

I do have reservations about season 5. IMO season 3 needed some minor tweaking and attention and I do recall posting some concerns back then but the amount of change, the lack of TH appearing as Wier, placing woolsey in charge of the city and the number of stand alone eps that have been in season 4 makes me wonder just what are tptb trying to change the show into.

I don't think Woosley is supposed to be pure comic relief but I do fear the character will be nothing more than a springboard to launch what ever plot rescue or drama they need.

Woosley is an interesting character and has much potential of being pivitol but I don't see him as leadership material.

My fear is they will make him into the next Rodney McKay and Woosley becomes the star of the show and with the exception of Rodney everyone else will be ignored again.

TPTB do seem to focus on developing just a few select characters and when they fail to develop another character that character always seems to fall to some dreadful fate.

I guess my biggest issue is Stagate Atlantis turning into Stargate Woosley.

miss_kaylee
February 13th, 2008, 07:24 PM
Thank you for this thread!

I do have reservations about season 5. IMO season 3 needed some minor tweaking and attention and I do recall posting some concerns back then but the amount of change, the lack of TH appearing as Wier, placing woolsey in charge of the city and the number of stand alone eps that have been in season 4 makes me wonder just what are tptb trying to change the show into.

I don't think Woosley is supposed to be pure comic relief but I do fear the character will be nothing more than a springboard to launch what ever plot rescue or drama they need.

Woosley is an interesting character and has much potential of being pivitol but I don't see him as leadership material.

My fear is they will make him into the next Rodney McKay and Woosley becomes the star of the show and with the exception of Rodney everyone else will be ignored again.

TPTB do seem to focus on developing just a few select characters and when they fail to develop another character that character always seems to fall to some dreadful fate.

I guess my biggest issue is Stagate Atlantis turning into Stargate Woosley.

I agree with you that Woosley is an interesting character. In a way, I kinda want to see how everyone reacts when he takes over. I would like to see how that storyline play out. I also hope we do seem some development with some the other characters. For example, I want see how Teyla is going to jugged being a mother and a proud warrior.

sspader
February 13th, 2008, 07:41 PM
YES....FINALLY.

anyways.


Woolsey??...seriously. Look how he was with Jack in The Return 2.


Point made.


Not so sure about Keller. Not so sure about the SG people coming over. ITA about the taking over part, and the ramifications of that. The show WAS about the Pegasus galaxy, and Atlantis.

Not sure what it is about now.

Whatever happened to the sense that it was just "Them" out there to fend for themselves. AS it was said before in other threads, their link to earth shouldn't have been resurrected.

ToasterOnFire
February 13th, 2008, 07:45 PM
I don't think Woosley is supposed to be pure comic relief but I do fear the character will be nothing more than a springboard to launch what ever plot rescue or drama they need.

Woosley is an interesting character and has much potential of being pivitol but I don't see him as leadership material.

My fear is they will make him into the next Rodney McKay and Woosley becomes the star of the show and with the exception of Rodney everyone else will be ignored again.

TPTB do seem to focus on developing just a few select characters and when they fail to develop another character that character always seems to fall to some dreadful fate.

I guess my biggest issue is Stagate Atlantis turning into Stargate Woosley.
Woolsey as leader is easily my biggest turnoff for s5. Don't like him, don't think he has what it takes to be a main character, don't want to see him progress from over his head to buddy-buddy with the team, don't care period. TPTB wanted conflict, they could have written it in before with either Weir or Carter. TPTB wanted a leader in a Hammond-type role, well how much screentime will they spend on Woolsey's transformation? TPTB were quick to emphasize how Carter had both military and scientific skills, well Woolsey has neither. Blech all around.

ShadowMaat
February 13th, 2008, 07:47 PM
The thing is... Woolsey is yet another SG-1 carry-over, although I suppose technically Weir was, too. ;) Still, I'd rather have a character who wholly belongs to Atlantis rather than one who comes with baggage from another show. Particularly a dead one. Folks used to mock me for worrying about the amount of crossover material, but now look at it- one of our biggest baddies is an SG-1 baddie, Sam, a lead character from SG-1 became a lead character on Atlantis, Woolsey, a PITA from SG-1 is now Atlantis's PITA, Daniel has (or will be?) visiting and so will Teal'c, apparently. Jack's already been and gone. I appreciate that the two shows are set in the same universe, but that doesn't mean that Atlantis should be used as life support for a dessicated corpse.

Atlantis will never be its own show if it's constantly depending on SG-1 for stories and characters. Not that TPTB seem to care about that.

Jackie
February 13th, 2008, 08:19 PM
The thing is... Woolsey is yet another SG-1 carry-over, although I suppose technically Weir was, too. ;) Still, I'd rather have a character who wholly belongs to Atlantis rather than one who comes with baggage from another show. Particularly a dead one. Folks used to mock me for worrying about the amount of crossover material, but now look at it- one of our biggest baddies is an SG-1 baddie, Sam, a lead character from SG-1 became a lead character on Atlantis, Woolsey, a PITA from SG-1 is now Atlantis's PITA, Daniel has (or will be?) visiting and so will Teal'c, apparently. Jack's already been and gone. I appreciate that the two shows are set in the same universe, but that doesn't mean that Atlantis should be used as life support for a dessicated corpse.

Atlantis will never be its own show if it's constantly depending on SG-1 for stories and characters. Not that TPTB seem to care about that.

The cross overs don't bother me as much. However, I do see you point with SG-1 characters being a life line to an extent.

SGA does have some inherent problems in the basic concept of the show.

First problem is the show has no clear cut mission or main story arc. Sure it has tons of little arcs but that only adds up to "stand alone eps" galore.

the next issue is making either the show believable by keeping the tech real or by making the characters so real like that the tech of the shows falls to the background.

What early SG-1 managed to do was keep it real by keeping the alien tech beyond us and making O'Neill, Carter, Daniel and Teal'c such powerful characters that you (meaning us viewers) were so engrossed by the character and what was happening to them that the big round circle thing in the background seemed real as well.

Now, we got the same ship set recycled over and over again...for tons of different ships too. Earth has tons of tech, lots of big honken ships and fighters ALONG with the ancient city...which is basically ignored now too...that it doesn't seem real at all. It's like watching a a bad space trooper vs. big bug movie.

There is no "charm" to the show. What charm it did have...the interactions between Beckett, Wier, Sheppard, Rodney have now been destroyed.

I watched the show in season 3 for the characters...not for the big budget special effects and to see the newest space ship which looks just like the old one. Who cares about new space ships and big bad explosions. That's just filler!

The next inherent problem with the show is by putting it in another galaxy the show has basically made it like we now own our galaxy and we know everything that's out there. There isn't anything left to fond in the milky way...though our galaxy is over 188,000 light years across and one of the biggest spiral galaxies around...we must have concurred it all. We have a moving black hole in the center of our galaxy, we are on collision course with the Andromeda galaxy which is equal in size and yet...we go outside our galaxy...millions of light years to another galaxy to find trouble there. When they did the Ori...same thing. Another galaxy.

Thus, by placing the show in more than one galaxy they have given rise to problems that they solved by bringing in space ships and a midway gate. Hence, Stargate Spaceship.

I also find the notion of sending civilians to another planet, in another galaxy, where they could be stranded, to be so unbelievable that it just boggles my mind as to what government agency would do something that reckless.

The show started out okay in season 1 with placing them stranded and on their own in an alien city that was beyond their scientific ability, an enemy that ate us, allies that were really enemies and sheppar's team having to survive on wits alone.

But in order to "rescue Atlantis" at the end of season 1 they sent the ship, then another ship and then a midway gate.

I think the show would have done better in the long run if they defended the city without outside help and kept the team stranded and on their own.

Of course, if they did that then we wouldn't have all those lovely cross overs. ;)

MatroxMeteor
February 13th, 2008, 10:43 PM
I too have a big problem with Woolsey running Atlantis. It looks wrong to me on many levels. For some odd reason I feel Atlantis should be lead by a woman, preferably civilan. Atlantis is a city of myth and legend and is visually beautiful, with lean and elegant structure - dare I say it is feminine. To me it *feels* right that a woman is in charge. Weir was IMHO an excellent choice, but Carter was quite alright too. Woolsey on the other hand... I'm sorry to say that, but he's not worthy of being in charge of Atlantis. It's so much bigger than he is.

Woolsey is IOA, so he's always been on the opposite side, more or less hindering SGC and Atlantis mission. Even if he has a change of heart, I don't know how well he could fit in, earning trust of people under his command and earning trust and respect of SGA fans. Weir steadily earned trust and respect by her character and decisions. Carter has proven herself over and over during her time in SG-1 and gains trust implicitly. Woolsey on the other hand...

TPTB should take a more global look at what they are trying to do and where they are heading with SGA. It would allow for better character development and better story development. What they have been making is short-sighted, spur-of-the-moment decisions to fit the coming few episodes and that's hurting the series badly.

Anuna
February 13th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Wow, MatroxMeteor! What an interesting view of Atlantis! I liked your post!

My biggest concern with this new season is that we will get lots of drama without any depth - something like explosions just because they look pretty. I fear they will do lots of DRAMA! just because it's SHOCKING! - and all we will have is soap opera effect on screen. I'm sensing Teyla's baby and the daddy will meet some awful fate so we can see more of ptb's favorite ship being pushed up our noses. I sense there will be more Larrin or whatever Larrin - like characters so the boy(s) can have fun. More infantile humor. More whiny Keller. Woolsey will just be a wallpaper on the glass wall of Weir's office - with him they'll be able to do something they could have never done with Weir and that pis push her completely out of the way.

I also think they'll try to do more "team"; in order to make Atlantis more like SG1, which won't work because Atlantis was always a different concept. I don't see any of the charaters really becming smarter.

One positive thing though - no more Weir on screen, no more of butchering her character in front of our eyes. Whatever they do with that rouge replicator storyline won't be original. We'll get another "been there, done that" scenario. And Carson? I don't even dare to think what will happen with him.

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 12:34 AM
My main concerns are;

Even more forced romance.
Larrin.
Lack of team eps.
More sg1 charcters.
Larrin
charcters forced into eps that are not needed just so they can say there, there.
and finaly
Larrin.

I am very aware that although the writters have assured us that the new charcters being added wont take away time from other charcters. i just cant see how thats possible.

They will have to use these newbies when someone else could have been used. I also wonder what stories could have been told if they didnt have to think about how to insert the new charcters in to the action.

The cast is pretty big as it stands why the need for more? I still feel that I know hardly anything about Teyla, Ronan Lorne etc.

It feels to me that they just add more people to the mix to create new stories rather than concentrating on the charcters they have. they also appear to be young women of the pretty variety. what I wouldnt give to see some more mature woman charcters on Sga. Weir was that person for me, she didnt need to resort to using inuendo or cleavage to get what she wanted. she used her diplomacy and conviction to lead. I dont see any charcter filling that void. Carter came closer than most, although Id love to say Teyla, shes been so absent this season that I dont know what shes like anymore.

I hope that my fears for Sga season 5 are wrong, but i just have that horrible feeling that the big space ROMCOM is just around the corner.

Oh and thankyou Mods for allowing this thread. i promise to be on my best behaviour :)

Willow'sCat
February 14th, 2008, 12:46 AM
Well the only real misgiving I have now is Carson. :cool: I just cannot see it working. Even if I buy how they do it (in season 4) having him back in season 5 is going to feel odd and unnecessary.

g.o.d
February 14th, 2008, 01:02 AM
My main concerns are:

stupid and silly written episodes.

filler episodes (Atlantis will be on lockdown again :rolleyes:)

no interesting and well written main story-arc which will connect episodes

current showrunners

clerk as a leader

cast changes

reset button

Teyla and her stupid people + her miraculous child... who cares???

Sheppard's kirking

Larrin

etc.

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 01:21 AM
Well the only real misgiving I have now is Carson. :cool: I just cannot see it working. Even if I buy how they do it (in season 4) having him back in season 5 is going to feel odd and unnecessary.

As much as i want to see Carson, I really dont see how his reintroduction is going to be done without it seeming like a farce.

Also how will they provide enough material for two doctors?

Like I said before how big is this cast going to get, and what charcters will suffer because of it?

Bride of Zelenka
February 14th, 2008, 02:09 AM
[FONT="Arial"][/I'm worried that Mckay will be continued to be undermined by the writers making him a figure of fun a la 'Trio'
also the worst news I've heared about 5 is that Larrin is coming back ( according to Joe M's blog)
I have rarely heared any fans say anything good about her so why dont the guys upstairs listen to us. Its just an embarrassing arc, give Sheppherd someone more mature to tangle with.:SFONT]
and dont be afraid to explore the dark side of Sheppherd

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 02:30 AM
[FONT="Arial"][/I'm worried that Mckay will be continued to be undermined by the writers making him a figure of fun a la 'Trio'
also the worst news I've heared about 5 is that Larrin is coming back ( according to Joe M's blog)
I have rarely heared any fans say anything good about her so why dont the guys upstairs listen to us. Its just an embarrassing arc, give Sheppherd someone more mature to tangle with.:SFONT]
and dont be afraid to explore the dark side of Sheppherd

I have asked on JM'S blog how many eps we will be subjected to Larrin in season 5, he didnt answer my question, sorry.

I would rather NO ship was made canon on the show, i dont think it adds anything. another full ep watching Shep be lead around by (insert dirty thought here) is not something I want to see again.

Unfortunatley the writters at present seem to favour the Romance and childish humour i find totaly unappealing.

Maybe though Larrins ship is blown up next season with her on it. although they may still bring her back....

dana
February 14th, 2008, 02:53 AM
I have asked on JM'S blog how many eps we will be subjected to Larrin in season 5, he didnt answer my question, sorry.

I would rather NO ship was made canon on the show, i dont think it adds anything. another full ep watching Shep be lead around by (insert dirty thought here) is not something I want to see again.

Unfortunatley the writters at present seem to favour the Romance and childish humour i find totaly unappealing.

Maybe though Larrins ship is blown up next season with her on it. although they may still bring her back....

Sorry, but the thing with Shep and Larrin could hardly be called romance in my world. :D :p

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 03:04 AM
Sorry, but the thing with Shep and Larrin could hardly be called romance in my world. :D :p

Arrh but this SGA, thats how romance is done nowadays ;)

Jackie
February 14th, 2008, 03:10 AM
I too have a big problem with Woolsey running Atlantis. It looks wrong to me on many levels. For some odd reason I feel Atlantis should be lead by a woman, preferably civilan. Atlantis is a city of myth and legend and is visually beautiful, with lean and elegant structure - dare I say it is feminine. To me it *feels* right that a woman is in charge. Weir was IMHO an excellent choice, but Carter was quite alright too. Woolsey on the other hand... I'm sorry to say that, but he's not worthy of being in charge of Atlantis. It's so much bigger than he is.



Atlantis has a gender...lol. very cute pov. :)

I guess you could say the decor is very feminine...I just think it's kind of gawdy. The first year was okay but after four years with the same control room and hardly seeing the rest of the city...it's hard to say.

I just think we should have more "city sets" and have more places on the city that would be utilized.

We see the control room/gateroom. Occasionally the jumper bay. We see the infirmary and the deep dark hallway but nothing else. The rest of the city has been ignored and this city is supposed to be huge.



My main concerns are:

stupid and silly written episodes.

filler episodes (Atlantis will be on lockdown again :rolleyes:)

no interesting and well written main story-arc which will connect episodes

current showrunners

clerk as a leader

cast changes

reset button

Teyla and her stupid people + her miraculous child... who cares???

Sheppard's kirking

Larrin

etc.

i agree on what you have posted and just wanted to add to a few bolded ones.

reset button...ah, yes the holy and always butt saving reset button. How I hate that...*poof* it either never really happened or *Poof* we made the show darker.

Some day they hit that reset button and it will go *poof* the show was non-renewed.

Teyla...you're right...not many fans really do care about Teyla. The poor character has been wallpapered for SOOO long that now they gave a a little story arc...many of the viewers don't really care becuase they have no connections with the character.

Larrin...OMG I forgot about that horrible character. Can't stand her...she's just annoying to me. A bit of a pompous snob...like a mean cheerleader...she sits there and antagonizes sheppard who turns into Charlie Brown when he is around her. OMG..they are Charlie brown and lucy.

That's the only interesting aspect of this character. She is supposed to be a rogue rebel leader but that really comes across weak. She is also a plot device and only shows up to move the story in a certain direction. Makes no real contribution to the over all arc...which is lacking away ways and just seems to be a filler type character. kind of like writing the script and just knocking out a character to spout lines and have Sheppard google at.

I think the first season was better over all becuase that was the only season with a main arc..."we're stranded here and now we have to fend for ourselves." since then...it's all been fillers.

g.o.d
February 14th, 2008, 03:17 AM
Teyla...you're right...not many fans really do care about Teyla. The poor character has been wallpapered for SOOO long that now they gave a a little story arc...many of the viewers don't really care becuase they have no connections with the character.
Teyla had a great potential during S1 but after that she has became useless. And her people? they had been forgotten for almost two years and suddenly they're back with a silly story-arc. Why should we care about them?



I think the first season was better over all becuase that was the only season with a main arc..."we're stranded here and now we have to fend for ourselves." since then...it's all been fillers.

I agree, I loved S1. There was a great story-arc with a new amazing enemy. And now? Big emptiness with silly filler episodes

Alipeeps
February 14th, 2008, 03:23 AM
I have my concerns about the return of Carson too. I'm staying mostly spoiler-free atm so don't know much about how they plan to bring him back so I'll wait and see and hope that it's done well (Paul said at the P3 con that he thinks it's very interesting and very well done the way they've done it so fingers crossed)... my concern is that in general bringing back a character that's been previously killed off is kinda tacky and, by it's nature, kinda stretching the boundaries of suspension of disbelief (yeah, I know, we're talking about a show about wormhole travel and life-sucking aliens! :lol:).

I like the character and I was sad when they killed him but I kind of fear that bringing him back will lesson the impact of his death and the method they use to bring him back will seem cheesy or silly.

Skydiver
February 14th, 2008, 04:03 AM
The topic is 'complaints and misgivings about season five' not 'what i don't like about gateworld'

SGFerrit
February 14th, 2008, 04:40 AM
My main concern is the continuation of the Asuran storyline... sans Weir:( I hope hey can pull it off, and that they still leave it so that she is alive somehow. I don't see how they could, but I hope they can.

FoolishPleasure
February 14th, 2008, 04:52 AM
I'm glad we got this thread!

What concerns me about season 5, and what I don't want to see:

Keller becoming a reg.

No Weir

Beckett - is he back for a few episodes before they kill him off again?

Larrin - uck, no more!

Asurans/Replicators - this was just carrying over more baggage from SG1.

JM and gang are poking fun of Zelenka and I don't like it. How are they going to treat him in season 5?

Woolsey

More SG1ifying of SGA (bringing Jack, Daniel, Teal'c, Woolsey, Carter, Doc Lee, etc.) They aren't SGA characters and I'd rather see more of our own gang and less of the old SG1 guard.

I'm tired of the producers bringing in young babes, like Larrin, Keller, the new Vega chick. They are only there for boob appeal.

I don't want to see anymore episodes that feel they were written by college freshmen in Creative Writing I!

borgprincess
February 14th, 2008, 05:03 AM
They dropped in the line about the 'real' Weir being killed off-screen, and that was when Weir was supposed to be recurring. Now that Torri's not coming back, they're not going to have the motivation to leave any hope for her future return. I just wish they'd given some proper thought and consideration to how they were going to develop this Asuran arc- one ep hardly sounds like enough to justify all the possibilities the mere 30 secs at the end of BAMSR brought up. This could've been such a rewarding storyline, and it's a shame and a major waste that it's gone down the drain because they couldn't be bothered paying it enough attention.

I thought Weir was supposed to be 'developed' by what they did to her in FS/Adrift, instead, it's pretty obvious it was just a method to get rid of her in an interesting enough way they could justify it as an 'arc' when the objective was to ditch her all along. I can't find any other explanation for the way they've ignored all the cool plotlines made possible in LL/Mortal Coil/BAMSR. If Carson could get 5 eps after he was blown up [it *sounded* fatal at the time], how much more could they have done with Weir and the changes that happened to her [especially considering all the clones running around, lol] and the shifts in power in Pegasus?

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 05:15 AM
Thank you for this thread guys!

So far since I've not seen S5 yet ;) these are my concerns:


No Weir - I think the way it was handled was shoddy.

Woolsey in - Alright, so bring in the character that has been portrayed as a nay sayer to command Atlantis. Makes perfect sense. I wonder how much trouble he will have making any decision.

Carson - brought back to life. I think they are diminishing the impact of his death by doing so. I suppose I have to wait & see their explanation before completely making up my mind.

Keller - As a regular. I just can't understand this move. She brings nothing to the table for me. She's pretty to look at for some, but if Carson is back why the need for her to be a regular? What has she contributed? I want repli Keller back before the real one.

Asuran & Wratih - can we just go back to the wraith? Aren't they threat enough?

Larrin & Travellers - exactly what are they adding to the story? Other than Larrin fulfilling some misguided notion of hot female, and possible love interest for Shep, what has Atlantis/SGA gained from them? They have a ship. Whoop-dee-doo. Larrin likes to tie Shep up and beat him. Okay, moving on.

The clownification (not a word, I know) of the scientists.

I am sure I will find more. :D

Suzotchka
February 14th, 2008, 05:22 AM
I'd like to know why the guys get all the 'hot' girls and we get Woolsey. :mckay:

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 05:33 AM
I'd like to know why the guys get all the 'hot' girls and we get Woolsey. :mckay:

ITA! I want more Shep types. :D

marielabbott
February 14th, 2008, 05:35 AM
Thanks for these threads! :)

Concerns for season 5:

No Weir. And no proper pay-off to the end of BAMSR.

I weary of SG-1 crossovers, and we'll have Daniel next year.

Introduction of new characters that may further dilute/damage the character dynamics I used to love.

Woolsey as commander--I have no idea how that is going to play out.

Larrin returns.

Keller becomes a regular/Carson is only there for 5 eps.

More Earth based episodes like this year.

More episodes that focus only on a few characters instead of the expedition or Sheppard's team.

Canon romance. :S

The_Carpenter
February 14th, 2008, 05:40 AM
My main misgiving about Season 5 is Carter no longer being in command, firstly because I think she was just settled in to her new role and had alot of potential as the Atlantis Commander in Season 5. Secondly three commanders in as many years is a bit unbelievable for such a important outpost.

SMB_BOOKS
February 14th, 2008, 05:42 AM
I'd like to know why the guys get all the 'hot' girls and we get Woolsey. :mckay:

LOL - now THAT was funny.

My Season 5 Concerns:

Woolsey in charge - seriously how long can the inept, bumbling, administrative bureaucrat storyline last? It might be amusing for an episode or two, but after that, it is going to get OLD. Although, if TPTB really view the leader of the expedition as support only, at least he won't be onscreen much.

Larrin. Can't stand the character. Hate the hormonal, sexual innuendo comments and behaviors her character inspires. I like to see women portrayed in a strong, confident, intelligent and compassionate manner. The way Larrin has been written and portrayed, I get NONE of those things from her.

Keller is a regular. I can't remotely identify with or warm up to this character. First it was the whining, then it was the flirting, throughout I've picked up on the immaturity. Just can't believe we lost a strong female character, and gained another female character that doesn't even come close. Yep, I know Weir leaving has nothing to do with Keller arriving. Just making a comment about the shift of portraying women of substance to something altogether different. Not my cup of tea.

The potential for increased use of sophomoric, frat-boy humor. In small doses, it can be humorous. The use of it in SGA, however, seems to be on a distinct rise.

The potential continued use of belittling characters by other characters. It is one thing to tease each other and make a joke. SGA used to use these moments sparingly and at least to me, seemed to be less annoying than some of the things I've seen this Season.

No Weir (as portrayed by Torri) in Season 5. Again, a strong, confident, intelligent and compassionate female character sacrificed for some unknown reason. That decision by those in charge won't ever be made right for me.

At this point, I really don't think I plan to watch Season 5. Could there be something out there that might make me change my mind? Sure - I'm a strong, confident, intelligent and compassionate woman who reserves the right to change my mind - if it suits me! ;)

The_Carpenter
February 14th, 2008, 05:44 AM
I agree, it would of been nice just to keep the commander the same. That is no ones fault really, because of Sanctuary, they had to replace, and had no choice.

Indeed, but its still a shame :)

mcbarr
February 14th, 2008, 05:57 AM
I'd like to know why the guys get all the 'hot' girls and we get Woolsey. :mckay:

This phenomenon is not restricted to Stargate, apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLn8v4BPvUw


I agree, it would of been nice just to keep the commander the same. That is no ones fault really, because of Sanctuary, they had to replace, and had no choice.

Yes, it is. If the current showrunners had kept Weir in the first place (who was fully committed to the show), none of this mess would have happened.

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 06:01 AM
Scientists on Stargate tend to get a very bad deal; even when they're allowed to be serious (instead of buffoonish incompetents) they're mocked and belittled. Even the lesser characters like Dr. Lee suffer. He used to be a pretty decent character, but the last time I saw him it was like he was channeling Felger (who is a sore point all on his own). McKay has always been a bit of a twit, but now he's being used more for comic relief and Zelenka... *winces* It's frustrating and not a little insulting. I, for one, am sick of seeing intelligence being treated as something bad or something to be ridiculed. It sends a bad message. Yeah, I have a sense of humor and yes, I can appreciate the occasional bit of poking fun, but this feels constant, like I'm getting hit over the head with the fact that intelligent people are undesirable losers.

Women, alas, aren't much better off than the scientists. There's an old thread about Stargate writing women (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=3120) that covers a lot of the salient points, but while that thread died quietly in 2005, the issues expressed there are continuing and in some cases seem to be getting worse. It might just be me, but I feel as if there are a lot of "bimbo" characters in Atlantis. Any intelligence they may have tends to take a back seat to their form-fitting wardrobe and if they're saying anything relevant to the situation chances are that Shep and McKay are too busy staring at her bulging chest (or her ass) to hear a word she's saying. :rolleyes: And they ALL have some chemical imbalance that forces them to flirt with Sheppard and/or McKay. Again, I find it kind of insulting. Why can't there be more strong, intelligent female characters who wear sensible clothing and maintain a professional attitude? Of course, that's part of the problem right there, isn't it? Expecting intelligence on Atlantis. ;)

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 06:07 AM
This phenomenon is not restricted to Stargate, apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLn8v4BPvUw



Yes, it is. If the current showrunners had kept Weir in the first place (who was fully committed to the show), none of this mess would have happened.

Do we know if Woolsey is contracted for more than this season? its just I dont think the show itself could cope with another leader change if we get a season 6.

Also how many eps do you think he will be in. Carter was under utalised this season (good for me I cant stand her) but bad for the episodes as I think you could sense the loss of not having the leader there. I hope thats not going to be the case in season 5

Hammond was in eps briefly from what I can gather, but still had presence. I hope woolsey can pull that off in this role.

marielabbott
February 14th, 2008, 06:16 AM
Do we know if Woolsey is contracted for more than this season? its just I dont think the show itself could cope with another leader change if we get a season 6.

Also how many eps do you think he will be in. Carter was under utalised this season (good for me I cant stand her) but bad for the episodes as I think you could sense the loss of not having the leader there. I hope thats not going to be the case in season 5

Hammond was in eps briefly from what I can gather, but still had presence. I hope woolsey can pull that off in this role.

I don't think we know anything about Picardo's contract at this point. JM has stated again and again that he views the leader as a support role, so I'm guessing Woolsey will not be present much...but at the same time, to make Woolsey a believable leader, he's going to need some screen time and character development. That's why I'm confused about this choice and what their plan is.

mcbarr
February 14th, 2008, 06:20 AM
Do we know if Woolsey is contracted for more than this season? its just I dont think the show itself could cope with another leader change if we get a season 6.

Also how many eps do you think he will be in. Carter was under utalised this season (good for me I cant stand her) but bad for the episodes as I think you could sense the loss of not having the leader there. I hope thats not going to be the case in season 5

Hammond was in eps briefly from what I can gather, but still had presence. I hope woolsey can pull that off in this role.

Well, I think TPTB wouldn't know how to answer those questions themselves. They don't seem to think long term... However, if they give Woolsey a Lantean holodeck, Sheppard and McKay are finished. :D

ToasterOnFire
February 14th, 2008, 06:27 AM
Oh, I had forgotten about Larrin coming back in s5. Thanks for reminding me! :S :P


Well the only real misgiving I have now is Carson. :cool: I just cannot see it working. Even if I buy how they do it (in season 4) having him back in season 5 is going to feel odd and unnecessary.
Carson's storyline could be very cliched and cheesy. It will all come down to how TPTB handle Kindred. But having him in 5 eps in s5? It feels like TPTB are shoehorning him in to "repair" the damage caused when they killed him in Sunday. And I won't be surprised if they kill him off again...


I'd like to know why the guys get all the 'hot' girls and we get Woolsey. :mckay:
Because we're in the wrong demographic, obviously. But there's a good chance that Kannan is a looker. Isn't he one of the actors from 300 or something? Too bad he's probably going to die, if not die twice...


Teyla had a great potential during S1 but after that she has became useless. And her people? they had been forgotten for almost two years and suddenly they're back with a silly story-arc. Why should we care about them?
Yep, I don't care about the Athosians because TPTB don't care about them either. And what a choppy story arc for Teyla - neither her nor the Athosians have been mentioned in the past 3 eps!


Of course, that's part of the problem right there, isn't it? Expecting intelligence on Atlantis. ;)
Heh. :D

Jackie
February 14th, 2008, 06:33 AM
I'm happy...these are some very good post with real concerns to look at. :)


Teyla had a great potential during S1 but after that she has became useless. And her people? they had been forgotten for almost two years and suddenly they're back with a silly story-arc. Why should we care about them?

I loved S1. There was a great story-arc with a new amazing enemy. And now? Big emptiness with silly filler episodes

Exactly, the writer's figured out they ignored her too long but couldn't come up with a story arc that would be part of an over all arc for her. Just a filler arc about super baby and mysterious daddy. Her people being missing doesn't impact us becuase we haven't seen them since season 1.

If they left her people in the city and made them regulars trying to cope with people from another galaxy that has more advanced technology then we would care if they were missing or dead.




I have my concerns about the return of Carson too. I'm staying mostly spoiler-free atm so don't know much about how they plan to bring him back so I'll wait and see and hope that it's done well (Paul said at the P3 con that he thinks it's very interesting and very well done the way they've done it so fingers crossed)... my concern is that in general bringing back a character that's been previously killed off is kinda tacky and, by it's nature, kinda stretching the boundaries of suspension of disbelief (yeah, I know, we're talking about a show about wormhole travel and life-sucking aliens! :lol:).

I like the character and I was sad when they killed him but I kind of fear that bringing him back will lesson the impact of his death and the method they use to bring him back will seem cheesy or silly.

But, but, but he never really died...he was kidnapped by aliens. lol.


My main concern is the continuation of the Asuran storyline... sans Weir:( I hope hey can pull it off, and that they still leave it so that she is alive somehow. I don't see how they could, but I hope they can.

I think it will be difficult to get us engaged in that story line with no weir in it. I often wonder if tptb realize that Dr. Weir was so loved and drew in a great crowd of fans? They obviously new Beckett was well loved and admittedly "killed" him off to shake things up and get higher ratings. But they way tptb wrote weir out and what little grace they have shown towards the actress I can't help but wonder if they honestly thought the fans wouldn't care about the character being gone.

IMO continuing the weir arc without weir is a reflection of season 4. JM stated, "Weir will have her very own arc and be in 4 episodes." which in reality boiled down too...Weir was conveniently left in enemy hands and we will not touch on her for a most of the season. Then we will show the team believing she's dead but we will leave a little hook for the audience to show she's still alive and she won't really be in four eps...just 1 where she is unconscious and 1 where she's a repi/human combo meal. We will give her 10 minutes for the ep where the team thinks she's dead and that's it--nothing more.


I'm glad we got this thread!

What concerns me....

Asurans/Replicators - this was just carrying over more baggage from SG1.

JM and gang are poking fun of Zelenka and I don't like it. How are they going to treat him in season 5?....

I'm tired of the producers bringing in young babes, like Larrin, Keller, the new Vega chick. They are only there for boob appeal...............

I don't want to see anymore episodes that feel they were written by college freshmen in Creative Writing I!.......

I'm a little baffled by what they are doing to Zelenka and considering tptb repuation of butchering characters I get the feeling his head is on the butcher block. My theory is that due to Zelenka being so popular with the fans and the fact they don't want Zelenka to be full time they are butchering him so fans would demand he become a reg on the show.

I have noticed the influx of "hot chicks" to the show too. Characters we like would like to see on the show...like Officer Novak (hiccups) we never see or hear from again. Of course the clevage is aimed at the target demographic and everyone knows sex sells.

The repi/asurans are another fine example of the lack of creative writing that has been churned out. Couldn't think of another enemy that would be interesting like the wraith or have have puppets or anything requires the actor to don lots of make up...so, we got human replicators. (I preferred the bug ones...they were far more menacing)

Freshman might turn out better writing to be honest.


..........

I thought Weir was supposed to be 'developed' by what they did to her in FS/Adrift, instead, it's pretty obvious it was just a method to get rid of her in an interesting enough way they could justify it as an 'arc' when the objective was to ditch her all along. I can't find any other explanation for the way they've ignored all the cool plotlines made possible in LL/Mortal Coil/BAMSR. If Carson could get 5 eps after he was blown up [it *sounded* fatal at the time], how much more could they have done with Weir and the changes that happened to her [especially considering all the clones running around, lol] and the shifts in power in Pegasus?.......

you hit the nail on the head. The repi wier arc had good potential but they never really wanted to follow it up. Then pushing that arc back till season 5 shows just how enthused they are about writing it too.

OR...my conspiracy theory is.....th=ptb didn't want the arc to have weir in it to begin with so they figured if they pushed it back far enough they could make it seem like the actress ditched them and it wasn't their fault.

Why even have a story arc that you don't plan on visiting for a whole year? That makes absolutely no sense unless you really do want the actress to turn the script down.

So, it's possible that they did intend for Wier not to be in the arc but just needed an out where they wouldn't look worse in the fans POV.

I can't help but frrl like the actress has been manipulated and so have we.


I'd like to know why the guys get all the 'hot' girls and we get Woolsey. :mckay:

But we get don't just get woosley...we get Rodney's political clone. Everybody just LOVESSSSS Rodney. Or at least tptb think so.


My only complaint is Weir not returning next season. There was so much potential in that story arc that could of likely gone on for several episodes. I am afraid if they visit the story arc without Weir, it will not be as interesting and likely very dull.

I would guess...short lived and dull with hot new actress with huge cleavage, in tight leather and high heels delivering Weir like lines.


LOL - now THAT was funny.

My Season 5 Concerns:............

Keller is a regular. I can't remotely identify with or warm up to this character. First it was the whining, then it was the flirting, throughout I've picked up on the immaturity. Just can't believe we lost a strong female character, and gained another female character that doesn't even come close. Yep, I know Weir leaving has nothing to do with Keller arriving. Just making a comment about the shift of portraying women of substance to something altogether different. Not my cup of tea.
...........

Ah, yes...keller...the teenage wonder doc. I suppose she's thier version of doogie houser...md.

Yep, whinny and immature about somes up the character. Funny, I loved JS as the wraith girl who wanted to be human.

Anyways, between Rodney, Keller and Woosley the show should have lots and lots of whining, crying, shivering, shaking, thumb sucking moments to share with us. ;)

Oh, so much to look forward too.

blue-skyz
February 14th, 2008, 06:42 AM
Larrin. Can't stand the character. Hate the hormonal, sexual innuendo comments and behaviors her character inspires. I like to see women portrayed in a strong, confident, intelligent and compassionate manner. The way Larrin has been written and portrayed, I get NONE of those things from her.
I disagree. Larrin is all of those things: strong, confident, intelligent and compassionate. She’s not one of us and she’s not of our culture. The first three, strength, confidence and intelligence are obvious from her position as captain of a ship with the Travelers, the respect that her people give her and her ability to go toe-to-toe with Sheppard. Her compassion and motivation are driven by her own people. As she said, “Look, I know you don't agree with my tactics, but I wasn't lying about why I need this ship. I'm doing this for my people.”

One of my misgivings is the opposite of most of those expressed here.
My fear is that we will not see enough of Larrin in S5.

Larrin and the Travelers have so much potential, I hope TPTB don’t waste it.
I would like to see them figure prominently in at least 4 episodes of S5.

I fear they will miss this opportunity to have Sheppard temporarily interested in a woman that is his equal, a woman that is truly an interesting character.

(A complementary misgiving is that TPTB will provide suggestions that Sheppard is interested romantically with any of the female characters on Atlantis, especially Teyla. Hopefully, no main character ships will ever be canonized.)

Falcon Horus
February 14th, 2008, 07:05 AM
Season 5 as it stands now...

Woolsey - Uhm yeah... well... In my eyes he's the kind of guy who flees from the scene and lets his army/expedition deal with the crisis. He's a coward and a beaurocrat (sp?), a paper-pusher.

Also what happened to the militarization of Atlantis all of a sudden? I asked that same question in JM's blog and he told me to wait and see. It would be explained in season 5. I bet it will. :rolleyes: And I'm still waiting for Teyla's arc too.

Weir - No Weir cause TH ain't coming back to reprise her role as the wonderful diplomat. And I can't blame her. FCOL, ONE episode to deal with the Asuran-end of BAMSR? Come on, that's just ridiculous. That last scene was grand in potential and it was a powerful moment. It made for a great cliffhanger too. Unfortunately TPTB didn't deliver the closing in season 4 but chose to do the rest in season 5... Well, it seems they didn't have a clue to begin with.

Carter - well, can't say I'm sad seeing her go. Didn't like her on Atlantis in the first place.

Keller - regular as of the start of season 5. Wanna bet she goes boom in an episode called Saturday to shake things up a bit? :p Can't say I'm too thrilled about it.

Captain Vega - Is she going to be taking Lorne's place of being back-up team? Looks like she's there to cater to the key demographics.

Carson - he went boom... seems like The Kindred will reveal that little detail.

Larrin - If she should suddenly change into an actual leader-type, I might not have a problem with her, but as it stands she's nothing more than a sexual object that Sheppard can lust after. I highly doubt he's upset about being tied to a chair when she's around... kinky Shep.

It seems that boobs have become more important than brains, frat-boy humor is the key to everything and big explosions rule the galaxy. Characters are being treated like carbon copies of themselves (if they ever were more) and great stories stopped being born from great minds, cause those minds have lost quite a bit of their greatness.

Stargate Atlantis is but a breath away from becoming The Bold & The Beautiful: Stargate Atlantis or Baywatch Pegasus.

Like I mentioned earlier at the moment I'm still waiting for Teyla's arc and since she has been ignored pretty much throughout season 4, without much surprise really. Yes, Rachel's pregnancy got a bit in the way, but then I'm saying "What was the excuse the previous two seasons?". It's a shame how Teyla has been treated over the years, and how she will be treated in the coming season. There is no doubt that it won't change much, no matter the (empty) promises TPTB make about how they will change all that.

The reasons why I am not thrilled about season 5:

- I learned the hard way that looking forward to something, comes back to bite you in the butt .... and snuffs the flame that was glowing inside me. Yes, I'm talking about the death of Kate. I'm still very bitter over that decision and no, she won't be back. She's not one of those lucky characters who never die in sci-fi.

- empty promises made by TPTB

- the severe lack of quality in season 4

- the knowledge that they will squander their budget on big explosions and visual effects and are left with nothing and have to resort to filler episodes that bring nothing to the story other than to be boring and stupid, and usually ignore 3/4 of the characters

- more new characters, means less screentime for Ronon, Teyla, Lorne, Zelenka, Chuck, ....

- ....

I will be cautiously looking towards the news about season 5 and I don't think this was my last post in this thread. I will be back! (she said)

Suzotchka
February 14th, 2008, 07:13 AM
Keller is a regular. I can't remotely identify with or warm up to this character. First it was the whining, then it was the flirting, throughout I've picked up on the immaturity. Just can't believe we lost a strong female character, and gained another female character that doesn't even come close. Yep, I know Weir leaving has nothing to do with Keller arriving. Just making a comment about the shift of portraying women of substance to something altogether different. Not my cup of tea.

I agree. Keller as a regular is laughable. She is whiny and immature.

I'm waiting for someone to get killed due to her lack of leadership skills. (Just please don't let it be Shep). :sheppardanime23:

Chailyn
February 14th, 2008, 07:20 AM
JM and gang are poking fun of Zelenka and I don't like it. How are they going to treat him in season 5?

Yeah, this a concern for me. I think he's heading for Dr. Lee territory, which is completely OOC, imo, because this is Zelenka! He's the rational, grounded scientist, a complete foil to Rodney.

Although, according to JM, I think this is the direction they want to go in for Zelenka, which has me scared for S5. Maybe he'll start cross-dressing next! :S (spoilers for JM's blog)

Itxas lamia writes: “…the most destacable one being the infamous ‘Zelenka bashing’ one.

[…]…honestly I can’t imagine Weir saying such things.”

Answer: In all fairness, there is a scene from the season 3 episode Common Ground in which two dozen pairs of women’s shoes are discovered in Zelenka’s closet including Weir’s missing patent leather pumps. Unfortunately, the scene was cut for time but the deleted footage can still be found among the boxset special features.

Seriously?? He's breaking into people's rooms and stealing their stuff?? They wanted to include that in Common Ground? :S


I'm tired of the producers bringing in young babes, like Larrin, Keller, the new Vega chick. They are only there for boob appeal.

I'm holding off on judging Vega until we see her, but I'm a bit disappointed in the need to even bring her on. What happened to Cadman? I liked her. In fact, she was one of the only Stargate female characters that I liked. Now, I'm not a guy, but I thought the actress who played her was very attractive. Maybe the actress was unavailable? :(

The only thing that will make me completely write-off Vega is if she starts taking scenes that normally would have gone to Lorne. JM assured us that it wouldn't happen, so I'm trying to have some faith in that, but it's still a concern for me. Lorne is like a shot of morphene. Even if an episode is crappy, seeing him just makes everything hurt a little less. ;)

Southern Red
February 14th, 2008, 07:28 AM
I hope you people realize what you have done. Now that you have stated your misgivings, dislikes and fears for season 5 in a public forum where TPTB and everybody is free to read them you can expect the following in S5.

1. Boobs, boobs and more boobs. The bigger the better, especially when enhanced by tight outfits and inappropriate for the occasion cleavage.
2. Larrin will be a regular in S6. I have to say for the record that I like her, but accept the fact that most probably don't.
3. Woolsey will be in every episode, have a hero moment where he saves everybody, lift lots of weights during the hiatus and join a team in S6. Probably Capt. Hot New Chick's.
4. Keller will have at least one episode devoted entirely to her. It will focus on how she suffered to become the youngest CMO in two galaxies. Ronon will propose marriage.
5. Carson will be fazed out, mentioned less and less and finally never heard of again.
6. The replicator arc will confirm Weir's death at the hands of Oberoth and the last few milliseconds of BAMSR will be ignored. Noone on Atlantis will ever mention her again.
7. Everyone in the main cast will pair off, either with each other or a recurring character. Kanan is a dead man.

There's probably more, but I gave myself a headache. It seems like we are destined to get the exact opposite of what thread after thread confirms a lot of us want. Even though I am looking forward to S5, I'm doing it through the eyes of someone who started watching a lovely formal event with strings, waiters in tuxedos, and ladies in tiaras and ballgowns that has turned into a food fight. I'm still watching in rapt fascination. But at times it's while my hands are over my mouth to cover the hysterical laughter.

YappiChick
February 14th, 2008, 08:00 AM
I would guess...short lived and dull with hot new actress with huge cleavage, in tight leather and high heels delivering Weir like lines.

Because, since she has nanites in her, she can change her appearance. LOL

One of my biggest concerns is the additions/changes to the cast. I don't think they have consistantly delivered on giving us background stories for the characters. (It took four years to find out Shep had a brother, for example.)

I think if they could cultivate the characters into more three diminsional people, they would find the need to add more filler (i.e. more actors) would be nullified. Right now, my interest in the main characters waning...

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 08:28 AM
I disagree. Larrin is all of those things: strong, confident, intelligent and compassionate. She’s not one of us and she’s not of our culture. The first three, strength, confidence and intelligence are obvious from her position as captain of a ship with the Travelers, the respect that her people give her and her ability to go toe-to-toe with Sheppard. Her compassion and motivation are driven by her own people. As she said, “Look, I know you don't agree with my tactics, but I wasn't lying about why I need this ship. I'm doing this for my people.”

One of my misgivings is the opposite of most of those expressed here.
My fear is that we will not see enough of Larrin in S5.

Larrin and the Travelers have so much potential, I hope TPTB don’t waste it.
I would like to see them figure prominently in at least 4 episodes of S5.

I fear they will miss this opportunity to have Sheppard temporarily interested in a woman that is his equal, a woman that is truly an interesting character.

(A complementary misgiving is that TPTB will provide suggestions that Sheppard is interested romantically with any of the female characters on Atlantis, especially Teyla. Hopefully, no main character ships will ever be canonized.)


I didnt get any of that from watching travellers.

I found her totaly unbelievable. I didnt see many of her people so cant say wether or not she was there due to respect or wether she tied her superior officer to a chair and used sexual inuendo to get her position.

I saw no compassion. no nothing to make me want to see her again. especialy if it means a plot has to be sacrifised so I can watch her and shep play kissy face err :S

Travellers had uber potential. if Larrin had been an older, wiser and less flirtasious after torturing somebody. I would have believed in her charcter more.

As it was I saw no chemistry between Shep and Larrin so felt the ep was wasted, on me at least.

I hope if we are subjected to more of her I get to see, what you see in her, at the moment Im afraid I dont. :(

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 08:56 AM
Turning Zelenka into some kind of sexual pervert is just another way TPTB have invented in order to demean intelligence. They seem to think that being smart means you're socially inept, reclusive, and/or perverse. Lovely image to create, guys. :rolleyes:

JoeHundredaire
February 14th, 2008, 09:22 AM
1. Boobs, boobs and more boobs. The bigger the better, especially when enhanced by tight outfits and inappropriate for the occasion cleavage.What's wrong with this?
Even though I am looking forward to S5, I'm doing it through the eyes of someone who started watching a lovely formal event with strings, waiters in tuxedos, and ladies in tiaras and ballgowns that has turned into a food fight. I'm still watching in rapt fascination. But at times it's while my hands are over my mouth to cover the hysterical laughter.Best... quote... ever.

Suzotchka
February 14th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I have to say that I really hate the whole conversation about Radek in "Trio". It seemed out of place and why would a leader even get into that type of discussion?

I won't even go into the whole 'who would you rather' conversation which just showed Kellers immaturity. And why Carter would even contribute to that conversation is beyond me.

Both conversations really bugged me.

mcbarr
February 14th, 2008, 09:28 AM
Turning Zelenka into some kind of sexual pervert is just another way TPTB have invented in order to demean intelligence. They seem to think that being smart means you're socially inept, reclusive, and/or perverse. Lovely image to create, guys. :rolleyes:

IMO, TPTB should stop projecting their perversions on the characters.

Jackie
February 14th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Because, since she has nanites in her, she can change her appearance. LOL

One of my biggest concerns is the additions/changes to the cast. I don't think they have consistantly delivered on giving us background stories for the characters. (It took four years to find out Shep had a brother, for example.)

I think if they could cultivate the characters into more three diminsional people, they would find the need to add more filler (i.e. more actors) would be nullified. Right now, my interest in the main characters waning...

heck you don't even need that...just a new actress with a new character talking about the famous repi-weir and how the former leader would like to talk to them but won't...then, blah, blah, blah...till weir is never mentioned again...like ford.


Turning Zelenka into some kind of sexual pervert is just another way TPTB have invented in order to demean intelligence. They seem to think that being smart means you're socially inept, reclusive, and/or perverse. Lovely image to create, guys. :rolleyes:

oh yeah...can't leave Zelenka as a shy and smart guy who counter's Rodney's stupidity. havens, sheppard is supposed to counter Rodney's stupidity and flirt with everything...human or not...that has boobs in the process.

Can't let another scientist be smarter than the golden boy McKay...then Rodney would look even more incompetent than normal.

So season 5 looks like this to me:

Scene 1:

The Wraith are attacking the city.....

Woosley under desk with radio in hand screaming for Sheppard to do something.

mcKay trapped in engine room fixing something while explaining to Dr. Keller just how much better he works when someone is threatening him.

Keller trying to figure out how to shoot the P-90 and shoots Rodney in the rear end. Then she freaks!

Sheppard and Ronin, running around and shooting things.

teyla trying to hide baby from Wraith and barricades herself in her room with Micheal the Wraith trying to steal the kid from her.

The captain porter..potter...whatever...comes to the rescue.

Zelenka fixes whatever Rodney can't and then makes a fleeting pass at young doctor. Ronin then threatens to kill Zelenka for hitting on "his chick" later.

scene ends with everyone sitting at a table, patting themselves for a job well done and Zelenka has black eye.

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 09:32 AM
LOL! I do think TPTB project far too much onto their characters. Putting a little bit of yourself into your creations is one thing, but when it comes at the expense of the characters themselves it may be time to take a step back and rethink the situation. I suppose an argument could be made that this is the message TPTB want to send, complete with objectifying women, turning men into horndogs and insulting intelligence, but if that's the case it's a message I have no interest in hearing.

Killdeer
February 14th, 2008, 09:44 AM
A complementary misgiving is that TPTB will provide suggestions that Sheppard is interested romantically with any of the female characters on Atlantis, especially Teyla.

That's also a huge misgiving of mine - now that Rachel's pregnancy is over, I'm very very fearful of them trying to play up Shep and Teyla. :(


Although, according to JM, I think this is the direction they want to go in for Zelenka, which has me scared for S5. Maybe he'll start cross-dressing next! :S (spoilers for JM's blog)

Itxas lamia writes: “…the most destacable one being the infamous ‘Zelenka bashing’ one.

[…]…honestly I can’t imagine Weir saying such things.”

Answer: In all fairness, there is a scene from the season 3 episode Common Ground in which two dozen pairs of women’s shoes are discovered in Zelenka’s closet including Weir’s missing patent leather pumps. Unfortunately, the scene was cut for time but the deleted footage can still be found among the boxset special features.

Seriously?? He's breaking into people's rooms and stealing their stuff?? They wanted to include that in Common Ground? :S

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was disturbed by that. Good grief - Zelenka was always a great character! Why try to make him into some sort of creep? :( I'm very fearful for Zelenka in S5.

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 09:47 AM
Look at it this way, if they decide to kill Zelenka off in S5, it'll probably be a blessing- at least if he's dead TPTB won't be able to further destroy his character. ;)

Really, though, it'd be a pretty sad and desperate situation if you want your favorite characters killed off just to spare them any humiliation...

Killdeer
February 14th, 2008, 09:48 AM
I think it's simple humor with Zelenka. He is a guy, it is a normal response. :p

Stealing shoes is a normal guy response? :eek: :confused:

Suzotchka
February 14th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Stealing shoes is a normal guy response? :eek: :confused:

stinky socks I can see. ;) But shoes? :P :eek:

Killdeer
February 14th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Look at it this way, if they decide to kill Zelenka off in S5, it'll probably be a blessing- at least if he's dead TPTB won't be able to further destroy his character. ;)

Really, though, it'd be a pretty sad and desperate situation if you want your favorite characters killed off just to spare them any humiliation...

It's sad, but I completely agree with you. :S

marielabbott
February 14th, 2008, 09:58 AM
I think it's simple humor with Zelenka. He is a guy, it is a normal response. :p

Um, I guess the guys I know are not normal then. Thank goodness! :p

erb
February 14th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Stealing shoes is a normal guy response? :eek: :confused:

I think Brian should only speak for himself. ;)

Wonderful. Zelenka has a foot/shoe fetish. *tries to scrub her brain of the image of him sniffing the shoes he's taken*

Way to ruin a great character.

marielabbott
February 14th, 2008, 10:01 AM
I think Brian should only speak for himself. ;)

Wonderful. Zelenka has a foot/shoe fetish. *tries to scrub her brain of the image of him sniffing the shoes he's take*

Way to ruin a great character.

That's a fear I have for next season. I think they've damaged various characters this season, by forcing them to behave out of character to fit various plots, and I'm afraid this will simply continue into season five.

blue-skyz
February 14th, 2008, 10:13 AM
I hope if we are subjected to more of her I get to see, what you see in her

I hope her role in next season is limited to like one episode. :S
Travelers and BAMSR were the setup for what could turn out to be one of the more interesting story arcs in all of SGA. I hope TPTB develop the Travelers into a significant aspect of the show. It is possible, since their sets would be primarily ship related and not cities; the main problem with developing advanced peoples.

The Travelers certainly are the most interesting people we have met so far and have the potential to add a lot of context and texture to Pegasus. The only other interesting group of people in Pegasus are the Genii. It would be nice to see more of them too.

Larrin is a product of the Travelers culture. I hope we all get to see and understand a lot more about her. When she speaks to her own people, she turns off the act that she puts on for Sheppard. There is a lot to learn about this woman who lives in space; captains a ship; knows how to fix hyperdrives; is willing to go into battle to stop the Replicators from wiping out human worlds; fights, schemes, connives, tortures, flirts and betrays for the good of her people; and, maybe, sacrifices whatever personal feelings she has for Sheppard for her duty to them.

All that said, I still don’t think Larrin’s actions are meant to be taken seriously where Sheppard is concerned. Their relationship seems to be developing into a light hearted and adversarial standoff, a kind of semi-romantic competition. Sheppard is being written more seriously in his role as commander in S4 as he should have been sooner. But SGA has a lighter side and JF has great comedic talents, Sheppard’s relationship with Larrin is a way to keep some of the comedy and still have him function as a believable commander. It works for me. I hope TPTB take the time to continue its development.

I’ve watched Travelers many times now and I like it better every time.
I like Larrin better every time, too.

I hope TPTB don’t blow the possibilities.

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 10:14 AM
Just a reminder for anyone *New* :)
Please read the first post before posting....those of you that have posted in a *Dedicated* thread before already know the rules....:)


Thanks
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

ToasterOnFire
February 14th, 2008, 10:15 AM
LOL! I do think TPTB project far too much onto their characters. Putting a little bit of yourself into your creations is one thing, but when it comes at the expense of the characters themselves it may be time to take a step back and rethink the situation. I suppose an argument could be made that this is the message TPTB want to send, complete with objectifying women, turning men into horndogs and insulting intelligence, but if that's the case it's a message I have no interest in hearing.
It's been often argued in the past that TPTB focus on Shep and McKay the most because they can relate to those characters - Shep is the hot, smart guy who has all the girls flirt with him (TPTB fantasy) and McKay is the geeky guy filled with flaws and poor social skills (TPTB reality). :D

But because of this the characters that TPTB cannot relate to suffer. It's pretty obvious that none of the writers has a background in diplomacy - otherwise Weir might have been used better. And Teyla really suffers because TPTB don't seem to have a clue with what to do with her. RL's pregnancy all but forced them to give Teyla some development, and even that is lacking.

This PTB has been running in circles and falling back on "safe" SG1 themes for a while now. It's past time to bring in new writers to get them out of their rut. Hell, I think it's too late now. :S


Look at it this way, if they decide to kill Zelenka off in S5, it'll probably be a blessing- at least if he's dead TPTB won't be able to further destroy his character. ;)
But IT'S SF! No one stays dead in SF! ;) Look at Carson - he got handed probably the stupidest death ever and TPTB even brought him back from that! Maybe after his 5 eps are up he'll be killed by a falling piano or something. :S


ETA: And I think the comment with Zelenka and the shoes was supposed to be a joke. But at the rate this show is going it might be a major plotline for s5. NEW OTP: ZELENKA/SHOES!!! :D

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 10:17 AM
I think Brian should only speak for himself. ;)

Wonderful. Zelenka has a foot/shoe fetish. *tries to scrub her brain of the image of him sniffing the shoes he's taken*

Way to ruin a great character.
When did this happen? :confused: Whatever next? Oh yeah Woolsey will be commender, that's what comes next once characters start smelling shoes!

The deranged TPTB humour starts....

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 10:19 AM
I honestly thought the whole Zelenka w/ Shoes in closet comment was a joke. Was it really a thought/idea to put in the episode?

Awww how can anyone want to degrade Dr.Z?

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 10:21 AM
SGA is turning into Scubs.

sexy_penguin
February 14th, 2008, 10:27 AM
It's been often argued in the past that TPTB focus on Shep and McKay the most because they can relate to those characters - Shep is the hot, smart guy who has all the girls flirt with him (TPTB fantasy) and McKay is the geeky guy filled with flaws and poor social skills (TPTB reality). :D

But because of this the characters that TPTB cannot relate to suffer. It's pretty obvious that none of the writers has a background in diplomacy - otherwise Weir might have been used better. And Teyla really suffers because TPTB don't seem to have a clue with what to do with her. RL's pregnancy all but forced them to give Teyla some development, and even that is lacking.

This PTB has been running in circles and falling back on "safe" SG1 themes for a while now. It's past time to bring in new writers to get them out of their rut. Hell, I think it's too late now. :S


But IT'S SF! No one stays dead in SF! ;) Look at Carson - he got handed probably the stupidest death ever and TPTB even brought him back from that! Maybe after his 5 eps are up he'll be killed by a falling piano or something. :S


ETA: And I think the comment with Zelenka and the shoes was supposed to be a joke. But at the rate this show is going it might be a major plotline for s5. NEW OTP: ZELENKA/SHOES!!! :D

I hope the Zelenka thing was a joke. Although not very funny at that.

I agree with everything you've said here Toaster!

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 10:31 AM
And I think the comment with Zelenka and the shoes was supposed to be a joke. But at the rate this show is going it might be a major plotline for s5. NEW OTP: ZELENKA/SHOES!!! I originally joked about Woolsey being in charge on Gateworld and look what happened. Better not give TPTB more ideas......

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 10:46 AM
I'm a man and I though the comment McKay made to Sam was a disgrace. Sam should have decked him. The Sam/Keller conversatio about sam's personal life gets cut so we can see McKay look like a perv again. That comment would not happen with RDA and Gekko IMO. TPTB of Atlantis cannot help to show their love for McKay and Sheppard and any other characters can be reduced or kicked off the show IMO.

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 10:50 AM
Travelers and BAMSR were the setup for what could turn out to be one of the more interesting story arcs in all of SGA. I hope TPTB develop the Travelers into a significant aspect of the show. It is possible, since their sets would be primarily ship related and not cities; the main problem with developing advanced peoples.

The Travelers certainly are the most interesting people we have met so far and have the potential to add a lot of context and texture to Pegasus. The only other interesting group of people in Pegasus are the Genii. It would be nice to see more of them too.

Larrin is a product of the Travelers culture. I hope we all get to see and understand a lot more about her. When she speaks to her own people, she turns off the act that she puts on for Sheppard. There is a lot to learn about this woman who lives in space; captains a ship; knows how to fix hyperdrives; is willing to go into battle to stop the Replicators from wiping out human worlds; fights, schemes, connives, tortures, flirts and betrays for the good of her people; and, maybe, sacrifices whatever personal feelings she has for Sheppard for her duty to them.

All that said, I still don’t think Larrin’s actions are meant to be taken seriously where Sheppard is concerned. Their relationship seems to be developing into a light hearted and adversarial standoff, a kind of semi-romantic competition. Sheppard is being written more seriously in his role as commander in S4 as he should have been sooner. But SGA has a lighter side and JF has great comedic talents, Sheppard’s relationship with Larrin is a way to keep some of the comedy and still have him function as a believable commander. It works for me. I hope TPTB take the time to continue its development.

I’ve watched Travelers many times now and I like it better every time.
I like Larrin better every time, too.

I hope TPTB don’t blow the possibilities.

If they keep the interaction between them just talk, id be happier. I just have this horrible feeling that there gonna set up a romance that will be detramental to other plots etc. I want to learn about the travellers just not in a flirty way. Maybe we will get to meet the big honcho/ette in charge that would be interesting.
:)

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 10:56 AM
my issue with Larrin and all the other female aliens SGA has run ito so far has been that it all has had that *Kirk* feeling...or overall the whole *Star Trek* feeling. Sadly I do believe TPTb think themselves the next Sci-Fi frontiersmen :( and SGA is that frontier. I wonder if they realize space is a vaccum and no one really hears you scream...cause its all so bad....;)

Jackie
February 14th, 2008, 10:59 AM
Look at it this way, if they decide to kill Zelenka off in S5, it'll probably be a blessing- at least if he's dead TPTB won't be able to further destroy his character. ;)

Really, though, it'd be a pretty sad and desperate situation if you want your favorite characters killed off just to spare them any humiliation...

Death won't stop tptb from completely destroying a character. if they choose they will continue to do so.


Stealing shoes is a normal guy response? :eek: :confused:

Only if that "normal" guy was a serial rapist or killer looking for a trophy. :mckay:

[mod snip}


I honestly thought the whole Zelenka w/ Shoes in closet comment was a joke. Was it really a thought/idea to put in the episode?

Awww how can anyone want to degrade Dr.Z?

of course it's a joke...just it's a sick joke. tptb still think that "Stargate is a comedy disguised as a sience fiction show." as JM stated in his blog.


I'm a man and I though the comment McKay made to Sam was a disgrace. Sam should have decked him. The Sam/Keller conversatio about sam's personal life gets cut so we can see McKay look like a perv again. That comment would not happen with RDA and Gekko IMO. TPTB of Atlantis cannot help to show their love for McKay and Sheppard and any other characters can be reduced or kicked off the show IMO.

I can just imagine how much better SGA could have been for the last few years if Gekko remained in charge. Currently SGA reflects season 9 and 10 of SG-1...I didn't care for that version of stargate either. Of course, those two seasons were to be a new show called Stargate Command.

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 10:59 AM
*falls off chair laughing*

My problem with Larrin is where is the credibility? If she's busy beating & then trying to seduce her captives, where is she earning her people's trust? Exactly what have we seen to imply that? We're suppose to make a lot of leap of faith in SGA these days, and even with it being sci-fi some human elements should not be forced.

Falcon Horus
February 14th, 2008, 10:59 AM
...or overall the whole *Star Trek* feeling. Sadly I do believe TPTb think themselves the next Sci-Fi frontiersmen :( and SGA is that frontier.

To boldly go where no men has gone before... I don't think I wanna know where that is. :S

Jackie
February 14th, 2008, 11:07 AM
*falls off chair laughing*

My problem with Larrin is where is the credibility? If she's busy beating & then trying to seduce her captives, where is she earning her people's trust? Exactly what have we seen to imply that? We're suppose to make a lot of leap of faith in SGA these days, and even with it being sci-fi some human elements should not be forced.

Larrin? Oh, boy is that character poised for a major let down. Yep, she's kinky I guess...and sheppard's IQ drops by half every time she's around and he always seems to be in a bind.

Larrin is the next incarnation of Vala...excpet CB could hold your attention better.

Larrin is the "space pirate" of SGA. She doesn't really come across as the leader of a society, just the captain of a rogue ship. She's really no "Han Solo" either...a bit flaky and fickle. Changed directions at the drop of a hat. I guess she was supposed to be that way...I think Larrin as a actual "pirate" would have been easier to swallow than a society of traveling pirates that lie, cheat, steal and are heavily into bondage.

mcbarr
February 14th, 2008, 11:13 AM
I originally joked about Woolsey being in charge on Gateworld and look what happened. Better not give TPTB more ideas......

I also made that joke. :D But when you think of it, Woolsey was TPTB's safest choice. Think about it. If they brought Caldwell, or any other military officer, or any other serious person for that matter, to take command of Atlantis, such a move would reflect badly on Carter and her leadership skillz, and that cannot happen. ;)

By choosing Woolsey, they can blame Carter's removal from command on the IOA and so forth. And, as JM made clear, he considers the leadership position on Atlantis support role. Maybe he thinks that, by putting a low profile character like Woolsey in charge of Atlantis, those annoying fans will stop complaining about the expedition leader being wallpapered, you know, so they can concentrate on their fave characters, idiotic jokes, sexual innuendos, etc.


Larrin is the "space pirate" of SGA. She doesn't really come across as the leader of a society, just the captain of a rogue ship. She's really no "Han Solo" either...a bit flaky and fickle. Changed directions at the drop of a hat. I guess she was supposed to be that way...I think Larrin as a actual "pirate" would have been easier to swallow than a society of traveling pirates that lie, cheat, steal and are heavily into bondage.

And her people are the new Lucian Alliance.

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 11:23 AM
Bringing in Woolsey means TPTB can pretend to have dissension in the ranks again and build up a lot of false conflict between Woolsey and Sheppard. As Capt. Jack would say, "Wow, how homoerotic." :D Alas, it won't be that kinda conflict and the result will probably side mostly with Shep doing whatever the hell he wants, same as always. :rolleyes:

Chrysalis
February 14th, 2008, 11:41 AM
I also made that joke. :D But when you think of it, Woolsey was TPTB's safest choice. Think about. If they brought Caldwell, or any other military officer, or any other serious person for that matter, to take command of Atlantis, such a move would reflect badly on Carter and her leadership skillz, and that cannot happen. ;)


Good point. I hadn't looked at it like that before. Isn't it funny how they'll go to any length to protect Carter's image, but they're perfectly willing to destroy Weir. The character has been treated appallingly, but JM and co don't care, because to them, the SGA character are expendable. Unlike the SG1 characters.

And whoever said he said Atlantis is comedy disguised as scifi --- I don't know about you, but that just says to me that he'd rather not be doing scifi. He probably sees it as beneath him. If that's the case, it's an insult to every SG fan out there.

blue-skyz
February 14th, 2008, 11:52 AM
my issue with Larrin and all the other female aliens SGA has run ito so far has been that it all has had that *Kirk* feeling..
I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sheppard is constantly compared to Kirk. My mouth always drops open every time I read it.

Someone who thinks he is “constantly Kirking” please list for me every Kirk-like instance that you see.

There are four kisses in 76 episodes: Sanctuary, Epiphany, The Tower and Travelers.
Don’t bother listing them.

mcbarr
February 14th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Good point. I hadn't looked at it like that before. Isn't it funny how they'll go to any length to protect Carter's image, but they're perfectly willing to destroy Weir. The character has been treated appallingly, but JM and co don't care, because to them, the SGA character are expendable. Unlike the SG1 characters.

It could also be argued JM & Co. can't mess with Carter due to the future SG-1 movies cause from the little I've seen of s4, they also treated her like garbage, but yeah, not to the point of destroying the character.

Suzotchka
February 14th, 2008, 11:57 AM
There are four kisses in 76 episodes: Sanctuary, Epiphany, The Tower and Travelers.
Don’t bother listing them.

And the one between him and Weir in the Long Goodbye and the one with him and Teyla in ... ?

marielabbott
February 14th, 2008, 12:01 PM
And the one between him and Weir in the Long Goodbye and the one with him and Teyla in ... ?

Conversion. ;)

blue-skyz
February 14th, 2008, 12:01 PM
And the one between him and Weir in the Long Goodbye and the one with him and Teyla in ... ?
He wasn't himself. They don't count.

Chrysalis
February 14th, 2008, 12:06 PM
Um... Tame has said to stay on topic, meaning positivity about s5 needs to go somewhere else.

For those who are saying how great S5 is, and how they have no issues, a reminder from Skydiver about what will happen for breaking the rules of this thread, which is for Complaints and Misgivings:

Anyone breaking the on topic rules in the Complaints or Complilment thread will be given an infraction. You all know the rules, thus there will not be warnings issued. This post is your warning.

On the rare occasions that we see brand new posters misstepping in the narrow focus treads, they will receive ONE warning. This warning does not apply to our current and active members. You folks that have been here for months and years and have hundreds of posts, you know better.

Infraction One: You are 'gagged' for three days. Which means that you will be placed on read only status. You may make posts, but those posts will be held in the mod queue until your three days are over.

Infraction Two: You are gagged for six days and any posts you make while you are gagged will be deleted.

Infraction Three: You are gagged for two weeks and you will be counseled by a member of the mod team. You will discuss with them what the issues are and see what the problem is. This is also the point where the other mods will get involved. We'll discuss this particular poster's issues amongst ourselves and see what we can do to help.

Infraction Four: You are gagged for a month.

Infraction Five: You are permantly gagged. If you are found to be creating a sock puppet to circumvent the gagging, it will be banned.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 12:12 PM
I wonder if AT or DH protested about the line. I would have. It's suppose to be Atlantis and not Animal House. Regarding Gekko it was a dark day when they left. I feel like sending out a search part for Gekko.

stclare
February 14th, 2008, 12:15 PM
I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sheppard is constantly compared to Kirk. My mouth always drops open every time I read it.

Someone who thinks he is “constantly Kirking” please list for me every Kirk-like instance that you see.

There are four kisses in 76 episodes: Sanctuary, Epiphany, The Tower and Travelers.
Don’t bother listing them.


The Tower, man that was a bad ep. I could never get how Shep forgot about Rodney being trapped down in that ship, whilst he got his groove on with Princess Bride. I mean he ordered rodney to shoot the drones knowing it could colapse on my poor wee Rodders. Shame on you shep, why wernt you trying to get to your team mate.

For me Kirking doesnt mean sex. I see kirking more as a state of mind I think shep get into, (ala the ep with volcano cant think of the name) He didnt actualy kiss her but the kirkyness was there in the way he acted around her. same with travellers I think he looses his credibility when confronted with women by pulling that act. I want to see him act respectfull not try and pull the "look at me arnt i pretty" card.

I dont think we will ever agree on Larrin or Kirking because we see them in different ways.

nice chatting with you though :)

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 12:28 PM
I also made that joke. :D But when you think of it, Woolsey was TPTB's safest choice. Think about. If they brought Caldwell, or any other military officer, or any other serious person for that matter, to take command of Atlantis, such a move would reflect badly on Carter and her leadership skillz, and that cannot happen. ;)

By choosing Woolsey, they can blame Carter's removal from command on the IOA and so forth. And, as JM made clear, he considers the leadership position on Atlantis support role. Maybe he thinks that, by putting a low profile character like Woolsey in charge of Atlantis, those annoying fans will stop complaining about the expedition leader being wallpapered, etc., you know, so they can concentrate on their fave characters, idiotic jokes, sexual innuendos, etc.

TPTB must not think much of us. :(

Isn't jefferyb's comment off topic? Are his kind of posts allowed here?

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 12:31 PM
TPTB must not think much of us. :(

Obviously. :rolleyes: They make the show dumb just in case we can't figure it out, they ignore any concerns fans have and if you're outspoken about your complaints you get ridiculed for it. To say nothing of the insults that sometimes get worked into the eps themselves.

And I've reported the offending post.

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 12:38 PM
And I've reported the offending post.So did I hours ago.

I just don't understand how SGA has gotten this bad. I would have thought tptb would have learned from the cancellation of SG1 and I just don't get it, it's like they want to ruin the show and get it cancelled also. Maybe there's a hidden agenda.

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 12:47 PM
I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sheppard is constantly compared to Kirk. My mouth always drops open every time I read it.

Someone who thinks he is “constantly Kirking” please list for me every Kirk-like instance that you see.

There are four kisses in 76 episodes: Sanctuary, Epiphany, The Tower and Travelers.
Don’t bother listing them.
It doesn't have to be kisses. He constantly flirts and when he doesn't, the women are. I wasn't bothered at first but then it started to get ridiculous, it's like TPTB are playing out their fantasies! Also all the women tend look similar and are mostly button nosed and blond, it would be nice to have more ordinary looking women for a change.

ToasterOnFire
February 14th, 2008, 12:49 PM
I just don't understand how SGA has gotten this bad. I would have thought tptb would have learned from the cancellation of SG1 and I just don't get it, it's like they want to ruin the show and get it cancelled also. Maybe there's a hidden agenda.
Nah, I think that TPTB are doing the best job they can from their POV and that they're happy with how things are going. That is, unfortunately, my major reason why I'm not planning on tuning in next season. If they think everything is peachy and I think things are mediocre at best, I'm not expecting something to radically shift next season for me to start truly enjoying the show again. Sure some old characters will go and some new characters will appear, but I think the underlying problems (big reset button, minimizing or ignoring characters, frat boy humor, objectifying women) will still be there to muck things up.

I said it last season when they swapped Carter for Weir and I'll say it again for the upcoming season. I think there are fundamental problems with the writing and if that's ignored in favor of shiny!new characters and enemies then it's akin to polishing a rotting apple. Or putting a new coat of paint on the Titanic. :D

blue-skyz
February 14th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Um... Tame has said to stay on topic, meaning positivity about s5 needs to go somewhere else.

For those who are saying how great S5 is, and how they have no issues, a reminder from Skydiver about what will happen for breaking the rules of this thread, which is for Complaints and Misgivings
This is not an "anti" SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or that was what I assumed from reading the rules.

It is a place to express misgivings about possible happenings in the future of the show.
Or express complaints about things that have happened on the show that will affect the future or decisions that have been announced about the future of the show.

All related to Season 5...I assume.

Misgivings can be expressed in relation to other aspects of the show to give them context….I assume.

I can be generally approving of the way the show is going and still have complaints and misgivings.
The impression that I got from the rules was that this was the place to express them.
Or so I assumed.

I assume that all of the following are acceptable here:
-Teyla never gets enough screen time and is poorly developed.
-Teyla is on screen too much for a character that has so little to offer.
OR
-Sheppard and McKay are overused, while the other team members are underused.
-Sheppard and McKay the main characters and are not together on screen enough.
OR
-There may not be enough Larrin to suit me.
-Any Larrin in S5 will be too much Larrin.
Etc. etc.

So maybe there should be some clarification.

Is this an “anti” SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or is it open to gentler discussion?

Skydiver
February 14th, 2008, 01:06 PM
it is meant to be a place to commiserate over your complaints and misgivings. no matter what they may be.

it's not a place to say 'ok, so you think teyla's baby is a sucky thing but i don't

if you disagree with someone's complaint, this isn't the place to 'convince' them that they're wrong. agree with what you agree with, ignore what you don't

blue-skyz
February 14th, 2008, 01:21 PM
I see kirking more as a state of mind I think shep get into, (ala the ep with volcano cant think of the name) He didnt actualy kiss her but the kirkyness was there in the way he acted around her
I agree with you about The Inferno. Close to the bottom of my list. I’ve been told that Sheppard was teasing McKay, because McKay was interested in her. Could be, but poorly executed. I still don’t see Kirk, though. I do think it was meant as a joke, just weirdly done.

So, given you do see Kirk, The Inferno is number one on the list.

Killdeer
February 14th, 2008, 01:33 PM
I agree with you about The Inferno. Close to the bottom of my list. I’ve been told that Sheppard was teasing McKay, because McKay was interested in her. Could be, but poorly executed. I still don’t see Kirk, though. I do think it was meant as a joke, just weirdly done.

So, given you do see Kirk, The Inferno is number one on the list.

I don't generally see "kirking", and I didn't have a problem with Inferno, but I still have a huge problem with The Tower. That one was really really bad - I agree with stclare on that.

Regarding the Zelenka/shoes subject (which was where we were at on my lunch break :)), was that really supposed to be a joke? I'm a little confused now - I thought JM said it was an actual scene in Critical Mass that was filmed, and then cut for time.

Willow'sCat
February 14th, 2008, 01:43 PM
As much as i want to see Carson, I really dont see how his reintroduction is going to be done without it seeming like a farce.

Also how will they provide enough material for two doctors?

Like I said before how big is this cast going to get, and what charcters will suffer because of it?Ah but there is the thing... we have no idea how Carson is going to come back, is he even going to be a Doctor on the show anymore? He may just be a "friend" to the others, I am sorry to say this but Carson could end up with 5 minutes screen time in most of his eps, I see nothing in what Joe M has said to indicate the episodes Carson is in are going to be "Carson eps" they could just be eps he happens to appear in, big difference.

Jackie
February 14th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Bringing in Woolsey means TPTB can pretend to have dissension in the ranks again and build up a lot of false conflict between Woolsey and Sheppard. As Capt. Jack would say, "Wow, how homoerotic." :D Alas, it won't be that kinda conflict and the result will probably side mostly with Shep doing whatever the hell he wants, same as always. :rolleyes:

they also want to make sure to attract an star trek people too...at least i would gather by the move. same with B. Bowder and C. Black...attract the 'other fans" to our show by hiring actors from other successful shows.

if it is meant as a move to give shep an authority figure to pull whatever he wants on...then they might as well placed Rodney in charge. Then again, wooley is pretty close to being Rodney.


Good point. I hadn't looked at it like that before. Isn't it funny how they'll go to any length to protect Carter's image, but they're perfectly willing to destroy Weir. The character has been treated appallingly, but JM and co don't care, because to them, the SGA character are expendable. Unlike the SG1 characters.

And whoever said he said Atlantis is comedy disguised as scifi --- I don't know about you, but that just says to me that he'd rather not be doing scifi. He probably sees it as beneath him. If that's the case, it's an insult to every SG fan out there.

that was me that quoted JM and yes, he meant it too. He was talking about the franchise in general...I think.

To me...it just reflects the "Animal House" humor they like to explore and employee a wee but too much.


I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sheppard is constantly compared to Kirk. My mouth always drops open every time I read it.

Someone who thinks he is “constantly Kirking” please list for me every Kirk-like instance that you see.



I get the impression that Kirking is in reference to having all the alien chicks practically throw themselves at him or constantly flirt with him. Gets rather annoying after a while.


The Tower, man that was a bad ep. I could never get how Shep forgot about Rodney being trapped down in that ship, whilst he got his groove on with Princess Bride. I mean he ordered rodney to shoot the drones knowing it could colapse on my poor wee Rodders. Shame on you shep, why wernt you trying to get to your team mate.

For me Kirking doesnt mean sex. I see kirking more as a state of mind I think shep get into, (ala the ep with volcano cant think of the name) He didnt actualy kiss her but the kirkyness was there in the way he acted around her. same with travellers I think he looses his credibility when confronted with women by pulling that act. I want to see him act respectfull not try and pull the "look at me arnt i pretty" card.

I dont think we will ever agree on Larrin or Kirking because we see them in different ways.

nice chatting with you though :)

lol...yep, that's kirking in my book.


It doesn't have to be kisses. He constantly flirts and when he doesn't, the women are. I wasn't bothered at first but then it started to get ridiculous, it's like TPTB are playing out their fantasies! Also all the women tend look similar and are mostly button nosed and blond, it would be nice to have more ordinary looking women for a change.

Having one aline girl flirt with him or any other guy from the team once in a while...when it affects the plot is fine. You're right, after a while it became the running gag.


Nah, I think that TPTB are doing the best job they can from their POV and that they're happy with how things are going. That is, unfortunately, my major reason why I'm not planning on tuning in next season. If they think everything is peachy and I think things are mediocre at best, I'm not expecting something to radically shift next season for me to start truly enjoying the show again. Sure some old characters will go and some new characters will appear, but I think the underlying problems (big reset button, minimizing or ignoring characters, frat boy humor, objectifying women) will still be there to muck things up.

I said it last season when they swapped Carter for Weir and I'll say it again for the upcoming season. I think there are fundamental problems with the writing and if that's ignored in favor of shiny!new characters and enemies then it's akin to polishing a rotting apple. Or putting a new coat of paint on the Titanic. :D

New coat of paint on the titanic...I like that.

The issues have been and will remain in the writing no matter how many cast members they pink slip. The shiny new toy only attracts so many new viewers while losing the old character has the potential of far more damage.


This is not an "anti" SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or that was what I assumed from reading the rules.

It is a place to express misgivings about possible happenings in the future of the show.
Or express complaints about things that have happened on the show that will affect the future or decisions that have been announced about the future of the show.

All related to Season 5...I assume.

Misgivings can be expressed in relation to other aspects of the show to give them context….I assume.

I can be generally approving of the way the show is going and still have complaints and misgivings.
The impression that I got from the rules was that this was the place to express them.
Or so I assumed.

I assume that all of the following are acceptable here:
-Teyla never gets enough screen time and is poorly developed.
-Teyla is on screen too much for a character that has so little to offer.
OR
-Sheppard and McKay are overused, while the other team members are underused.
-Sheppard and McKay the main characters and are not together on screen enough.
OR
-There may not be enough Larrin to suit me.
-Any Larrin in S5 will be too much Larrin.
Etc. etc.

So maybe there should be some clarification.

Is this an “anti” SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or is it open to gentler discussion?

I would consider this an anti thread to discuss what issues you have with the show. if you don't have issues there is another thread to post what you like about the show.

I'm not here to bash the show and flame people. I'm hear to discuss issues I have about the changes and general writing with others who feel similar to the way I do.

Chailyn
February 14th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Regarding the Zelenka/shoes subject (which was where we were at on my lunch break :)), was that really supposed to be a joke? I'm a little confused now - I thought JM said it was an actual scene in Critical Mass that was filmed, and then cut for time.

We must have been on our lunch breaks at the same time. :D

JM says that it was a scene filmed for Common Ground (which makes no sense considering the serious tone of CG but whatever). I didn't think he was joking, but maybe he was. I hope that he was. It's just that after the Sam/Keller conversation about how Zelenka follows women around, sniffing their hair, and how they both thought he was creepy...well the stealing women's shoes would seem to fit. I hope it was just a bad joke on JM's part. Otherwise, Zelenka might graduate to stealing panties and wearing red lipstick in Season 5. :S

bluealien
February 14th, 2008, 01:49 PM
I didnt get any of that from watching travellers.

I found her totaly unbelievable. I didnt see many of her people so cant say wether or not she was there due to respect or wether she tied her superior officer to a chair and used sexual inuendo to get her position.

I saw no compassion. no nothing to make me want to see her again. especialy if it means a plot has to be sacrifised so I can watch her and shep play kissy face err :S

Travellers had uber potential. if Larrin had been an older, wiser and less flirtasious after torturing somebody. I would have believed in her charcter more.

As it was I saw no chemistry between Shep and Larrin so felt the ep was wasted, on me at least.

I hope if we are subjected to more of her I get to see, what you see in her, at the moment Im afraid I dont. :(

This is how I see her. Nothing of substance whatsoever and it annoys me that she kidnaps Sheppard,, has him beaten up and almost killed but yet he seems to forgive all of this because she is hot. I wonder if Wallace had been a hot babe would Shep have sacrificed her to the Wraith..
I have no interest in seeing Larrin again. She was just fluff and I would much rather see Shep have a mature emotional liason with someone rather than cheesy immature fluff.

My only other concern is the addition of more characters to the mix. My main interest is Shep/Teyla/Ronan and McKay with a side helping of Lorne and Zelenka. These are the characters I want to see fleshed out. I have no interest in another team or Larrin or any other of the myriad of characters that we will be getting in season 5. I liked Carter in Command and really felt she was beginning to fit in nicely. I understand that AT has now other committments and cannot remain as leader of Atlantis, but Woolsey would have been the last person I would have suggested to take her place.

Keller has not impressed me at all. I like Jewel and have nothing against her but feel she was totally miscast for the role of chief CMO. What is the obsession with actors that IMO are way too young for the roles they are being given. We will now have this new captain who looks no older than my daughter and once again we are meant to believe she is a captain and has years of experience in the military... is there a shortage of good female actors in their thirties and forties...

I hope these new characters don't take away from the main team as this is what keeps me watching SGA. I want to see more team eps and not so many separate character eps. I'd like to see more emhpasis on the characters we already have and good meaty stories centered around each of them. They are the core of the show and IMO that is where the focus should be. I'd like to see more serious emotional attachments and please let Sheppard show some emotion.. not just those looks that JF does so well ..but give the man some lines that shows he has feelings, because no one could let all the crap he has endured roll off their back without some sort of emotional consequenses.

Killdeer
February 14th, 2008, 01:49 PM
JM says that it was a scene filmed for Common Ground (which makes no sense considering the serious tone of CG but whatever). I didn't think he was joking, but maybe he was. I hope that he was. It's just that after the Sam/Keller conversation about how Zelenka follows women around, sniffing their hair, and how they both thought he was creepy...well the stealing women's shoes would seem to fit. I hope it was just a bad joke on JM's part. Otherwise, Zelenka might graduate to stealing panties and wearing red lipstick in Season 5. :S

That's just really really disturbing. Wow. I have never ever seen Zelenka in that light. :S I really hope they don't go that direction. :(

Jackie
February 14th, 2008, 02:00 PM
This is how I see her. Nothing of substance whatsoever and it annoys me that she kidnaps Sheppard,, has him beaten up and almost killed but yet he seems to forgive all of this because she is hot. I wonder if Wallace had been a hot babe would Shep have sacrificed her to the Wraith..
I have no interest in seeing Larrin again. She was just fluff and I would much rather see Shep have a mature emotional liason with someone rather than cheesy immature fluff.

My only other concern is the addition of more characters to the mix. My main interest is Shep/Teyla/Ronan and McKay with a side helping of Lorne and Zelenka. These are the characters I want to see fleshed out. I have no interest in another team or Larrin or any other of the myriad of characters that we will be getting in season 5. I liked Carter in Command and really felt she was beginning to fit in nicely. I understand that AT has now other committments and cannot remain as leader of Atlantis, but Woolsey would have been the last person I would have suggested to take her place.

Keller has not impressed me at all. I like Jewel and have nothing against her but feel she was totally miscast for the role of chief CMO. What is the obsession with actors that IMO are way too young for the roles they are being given. We will now have this new captain who looks no older than my daughter and once again we are meant to believe she is a captain and has years of experience in the military... is there a shortage of good female actors in their thirties and forties...

I hope these new characters don't take away from the main team as this is what keeps me watching SGA. I want to see more team eps and not so many separate character eps. I'd like to see more emhpasis on the characters we already have and good meaty stories centered around each of them. They are the core of the show and IMO that is where the focus should be. I'd like to see more serious emotional attachments and please let Sheppard show some emotion.. not just those looks that JF does so well ..but give the man some lines that shows he has feelings, because no one could let all the crap he has endured roll off their back without some sort of emotional consequenses.

excellent points...the actresses are way to young for the roles they were given. A captain would be much older and keller would also be much older. Why would a kid be second in command of the infirmary? doesn't they have adults working there too?

As far as making the leader's role more believable...if the new leader was a retired general or colonel...then I could see having a civilian placed back in charge. One of the reason's given to us for offing weir was they wanted it to be a military command.

Can't help but wonder what qualifies for military command in tptb's eyes.

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 02:04 PM
Larrin is just a sex ploy, nothing more and nothing less. A complete waste of viewing time. TPTB used to write much better developed female characters, like I was just thinking of that SG1 episode with the old woman who destoryed worlds. Now they're just hot sex objects and most of the men prevented. It's become like a sex show from what I read. Apart from the obvious negative implications this has, it also takes the sci fi from the show away.


she was totally miscast for the role of chief CMO. What is the obsession with actors that IMO are way too young for the roles they are being given. We will now have this new captain who looks no older than my daughter and once again we are meant to believe she is a captain and has years of experience in the military

Goes back to the point I just made. TPTB thinks men only want to see young hot flirtatious girls. What women want to watch doesn't count.

Chailyn
February 14th, 2008, 02:07 PM
That's just really really disturbing. Wow. I have never ever seen Zelenka in that light. :S I really hope they don't go that direction. :(

I hope so too. JM was probably just joking. I hope. Even still the whole hair sniffing thing is still pretty bad. Keller and Carter really think he is creepy, which is weird because I've never seen Zelenka like that. He sometimes acted a little weird around Weir, but I just always thought he was shy around women, maybe even had a little crush on her. I never saw him trying to sniff her hair. Hopefully, they'll drop this character trait in Season 5. I don't want to see him turn into comic fodder like Dr. Lee. :S

Dr Weir
February 14th, 2008, 02:20 PM
I hope so too. JM was probably just joking. I hope. Even still the whole hair sniffing thing is still pretty bad. Keller and Carter really think he is creepy, which is weird because I've never seen Zelenka like that. He sometimes acted a little weird around Weir, but I just always thought he was shy around women, maybe even had a little crush on her. I never saw him trying to sniff her hair. Hopefully, they'll drop this character trait in Season 5. I don't want to see him turn into comic fodder like Dr. Lee. :S
OMG I hated the episode where they showed him fantasying about kissing Carter. That was so disgusting! They made Dr Lee and his friend stars for an entire episode! It was so stupid and boring.

I didn't know the joke was made by JM and that Zelenka was smelling Carter's and Keller's hair! :S It's getting extremely creepy and unrealistic, in rl if a man did that continually it would be considerate sexual harassment and he could be fired.

Killdeer
February 14th, 2008, 02:21 PM
OMG I hated the episode where they showed him fantasying about kissing Carter. That was so disgusting! They made Dr Lee and his friend stars for an entire episode! It was so stupid and boring.

Actually, that was Felger, not Dr. Lee. I like Dr Lee. :) I loathe and despise Felger. :mad: But I agree with you about the episode(s). Avenger 2.0 especially is my most hated Stargate episode ever.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Please do not get me started on Felger and that episode. IMO SG-1 and Atlantis should be serious shows. It's seems with Gekko out of the way things changed and TPTB started turning SG-1 into a comedy. I really noticed how TPTB treated Sam and having many of the guest star falling for Sam. Let's not forget Orlin as kid hitting on Sam. I stop watching SG-1 after that episode.

erb
February 14th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Keller and Carter really think he is creepy, which is weird because I've never seen Zelenka like that.

I've never seen Zelenka like that, either. Keller, on the other hand, I could totally buy as a stalker.:p

I certainly hope they don't continue with the creepifying (making up words here) of Zelenka, but I think some damage is already done thanks to the words of blonde and blonder.

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 03:06 PM
they also want to make sure to attract an star trek people too...at least i would gather by the move. same with B. Bowder and C. Black...attract the 'other fans" to our show by hiring actors from other successful shows.
Actually, this is one case where I don't think the casting has to do with drawing in a particular show's audience... or at least not the Trek audience. Woolsey was an SG-1 character. If his addition is meant to bait anyone into watching, I'd be it's the SG-1 fans.


I get the impression that Kirking is in reference to having all the alien chicks practically throw themselves at him or constantly flirt with him. Gets rather annoying after a while.
That's how I see it, yeah. And yes, it was getting obnoxious two seasons ago. :rolleyes:


I would consider this an anti thread to discuss what issues you have with the show.
"Anti" is a very toxic term these days and it's one of the reasons it isn't in the thread title. It's a thread for voicing your complaints and concerns, yes, but it doesn't necessarily have to imply total hatred/opposition. And the people who keep trying to defend characters/stories/the show are posting in the wrong place and need to be reported, but there are different ways to interpret a complaint. If I correctly remember what Sky said in the pro/anti discussion thread, complaining about a character not being around enough is as on topic as complaining about that same character being around too much. But I've been on Sudafed for two days, so my judgment may be impaired. ;)

As for Dr. Lee and Felger, it's unfortunate but I can actually understand how people might confuse the two. Once upon a time, Lee was a fairly normal, likable minor character. Then the writers needed some comic relief for an ep of Atlantis and Lee became a buffoon. That worked well for them, so they continued to write him as a bumbling twit, much like another (and much reviled) character from SG-1: Felger.

Personally I loved Felger the first time he was on, but I think they should have stopped there because his return appearance was... embarrassing and painful to watch. They took a goofball character and made him into someone who was so criminally incompetent that it was impossible to believe he could hold down a job that didn't involve flipping burgers. I'm kinda surprised he hasn't shown up on Atlantis, but then he doesn't need to, does he? TPTB can just use Lee, instead. And what the writers have done to Lee is, IMO, far worse than what they did to Felger because while Felger was always meant to be a bit of a joke, Lee used to be a serious and competent character. Seeing him reduced to such low levels is depressing, but it's yet another example of TPTB's apparent hatred of anything resembling intelligence. I can't watch him anymore; it's too embarrassing.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 03:17 PM
IMO this is what happens when you have TPTB who are too buddy buddy with each other. There is no one around that will step up and say we cannot do this or why did you do this? We had that with Gekko? It used to be about making a great show and not making friends among TPTB and Actors. It really is like a frat house. There is a severe lack of maturity being displayed.

Chrysalis
February 14th, 2008, 03:23 PM
IMO this is what happens when you have TPTB who are too buddy buddy with each other. There is no one around that will step up and say we cannot do this or why did you do this? We had that with Gekko? It used to be about making a great show and not making friends among TPTB and Actors. It really is like a frat house. There is a severe lack of maturity being displayed.


I wish I could green you, but you talk too much sense, so I already did for another post!!

I agree 100 percent with the buddy buddy issue --- but I don't think many of the actors are as in with the writers as people think. You just have to hear JF talk at a convention about how every time he tries to ask for changes, they go "Too late". Can we not kill Carson? "Too late, we already told Paul". He gets a script and goes to them on the same day to ask for something to be changed "Too late" is the reply.

I think the writers/producers are part of a boy's club. And I bet there are people on other productions in Vancouver who'd agree with that. I believe they have something of a reputation for it.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Thanks alyssa. TPTB also need more Women writers desperately. The male members of TPTB are too comfortable. TPTB have no problem shaking up the cast. It's time they had some of their own medicine.

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 03:46 PM
I don't know if having women writers would help because I've seen some awful stuff done by women. What's needed is writers of ANY gender who have a fuller understanding of people in general, women in particular, and relationships in all their forms.

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 03:57 PM
I don't know if having women writers would help because I've seen some awful stuff done by women. What's needed is writers of ANY gender who have a fuller understanding of people in general, women in particular, and relationships in all their forms.

Hey I don't care what gender they are, just as long as we get decent writing. It would probably help to have both gender on staff, to toss ideas back & forth. But as Ses & Alyssa mentions, there is no real accountability these days. At least that's the impression that comes off.

Agent_Dark
February 14th, 2008, 04:06 PM
We will now have this new captain who looks no older than my daughter and once again we are meant to believe she is a captain and has years of experience in the military... is there a shortage of good female actors in their thirties and forties...

28 is teh correct age for a USAF/US Army/USMC O-3 (captain).

ToasterOnFire
February 14th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Hmmm...it's really funny/not funny that we can't decide whether Joe M is joking about some OTT scene with Zelenka and shoes. Sign of the times? O_O


I am sorry to say this but Carson could end up with 5 minutes screen time in most of his eps, I see nothing in what Joe M has said to indicate the episodes Carson is in are going to be "Carson eps" they could just be eps he happens to appear in, big difference.
Yeah, it could be like what happened with Weir. She was touted to be in 4 eps in s4, but was unconscious in most of one and had only 10 seconds or so in another...

Chrysalis
February 14th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Yeah, it could be like what happened with Weir. She was touted to be in 4 eps in s4, but was unconscious in most of one and had only 10 seconds or so in another...

I wouldn't be surprised at all. If they had any intention of truly doing something with the character, he'd be in more than five episodes.

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 04:40 PM
I wouldn't be surprised at all. If they had any intention of truly doing something with the character, he'd be in more than five episodes.
Or they could just keep him dead. They took a stand in killing off Carson, at least stand by it!

Cory Holmes
February 14th, 2008, 05:07 PM
Or they could just keep him dead. They took a stand in killing off Carson, at least stand by it!
They can't. they actually had people protesting outside of Bridge Studios (complete with flags and placards) to bring him back.

I never cared for Carson and didn't miss him at all, but apparently I'm in the minority...

erb
February 14th, 2008, 05:12 PM
I have plenty of misgivings about season five, but Keller being a regular is the one most likely to make me miss episodes.

What a waste of air time this character is. She has yet to demonstrate anything which makes her an interesting character for the scifi genre. And being a Doogielia Howser doesn't cut it.

What will she contribute to the storyline besides flirting with the male cast?

Falcon Horus
February 14th, 2008, 05:30 PM
Or they could just keep him dead. They took a stand in killing off Carson, at least stand by it!

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper were showrunners back then. They took a stand. JM & PM are just rectifying a mistake (what they think was a mistake, cause I have to admit Sunday is one of my fave episodes of season 3) made back then, unbeknowest to themselves, however, they have created a far worse mistake... They just don't know it yet.

jelgate
February 14th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Brad Wright and Robert Cooper were showrunners back then. They took a stand. JM & PM are just rectifying a mistake (what they think was a mistake, cause I have to admit Sunday is one of my fave episodes of season 3) made back then, unbeknowest to themselves, however, they have created a far worse mistake... They just don't know it yet.

I have to agree that it is mistake to bring back Beckett. He died a heroes death why taint that with a unrealastic return. Their is a fine line with Beckett's return.

(Sunday is one of my favorites too;))

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 06:04 PM
Brad Wright and Robert Cooper were showrunners back then. They took a stand. JM & PM are just rectifying a mistake (what they think was a mistake, cause I have to admit Sunday is one of my fave episodes of season 3) made back then, unbeknowest to themselves, however, they have created a far worse mistake... They just don't know it yet.

It's unfortunate. I don't want to play the blame game, but seriously 3 years it worked. Well. Then this mess, only reminds me of a children's party where after playing well together, they start to get tired, and only way they can resolve it is by making a whole lot of mess.

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 06:19 PM
I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sheppard is constantly compared to Kirk. My mouth always drops open every time I read it.

Someone who thinks he is “constantly Kirking” please list for me every Kirk-like instance that you see.

There are four kisses in 76 episodes: Sanctuary, Epiphany, The Tower and Travelers.
Don’t bother listing them.
For me its not really about the kissing or the flirting itself...its more the overall mentality behind it and the writing that goes along with it. Its how they make the character out to be.

In the Original Star Trek Kirk always dealt with the *women or woman of the planet* and usually ended up either fighting on their behalf, sort of as a chivalrous action, kissing the woman or drooling around her and making a mistake that put the crew in some sort of jeopardy and the action began.

That is not to say that Spock or McCoy didn't have their moments as well with a woman or two or some sort of sexual tension that got the whole crew in trouble its just that Kirk was the main Lead Male and did it the most often....That is what I think of when I call it Kirking.

So my definition is a bit different then most others here on the Forum. Its sort of a *dumbing down of a Male Lead JUST because there is a woman in the scene...does that make more sense???

Skydiver
February 14th, 2008, 06:30 PM
in other words, when the lead male thinks with his hormones ;)


I think my biggest issue is it's just so cliche.

sexy alien chick (like they never have size 12 women on these planets) falls for the 'wmah' who then falls victim to testosterone, does silly things in a 'mine is bigger' contest to 'prove' himself to said lady...and is rarely called for his actions, rather his friends look upon him as 'cool' and 'neat' and 'whatta guy' :rolleyes:

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 06:33 PM
in other words, when the lead male thinks with his hormones ;)

Yeah, well, Shep is operating at a disadvantage since apparently hormones are all he has to think with- at least judging from the way he's written. :rolleyes:

Skydiver
February 14th, 2008, 06:37 PM
i see a lot of similarities between shep and cameron.

devil may care recklessness and disregard for one's own safety

falling for a pretty face and low cut gown

but, to sheps' credit, he hasn't quite descended to cam's supreme level of silliness...yet ;)

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 06:39 PM
in other words, when the lead male thinks with his hormones ;)


I think my biggest issue is it's just so cliche.

sexy alien chick (like they never have size 12 women on these planets) falls for the 'wmah' who then falls victim to testosterone, does silly things in a 'mine is bigger' contest to 'prove' himself to said lady...and is rarely called for his actions, rather his friends look upon him as 'cool' and 'neat' and 'whatta guy' :rolleyes:

Seriously I'd like to see an episode outright like that. Why not get it out of everyones system? Let them all act out all of their fantasies. :D

Skydiver
February 14th, 2008, 06:42 PM
the naked time
the naked now
hathor

it's been done ;)

for once i'd like the alien to NOT be a sexpot. i'd like rod or shep do to something for them because it's the right thing to do, not because they're trying to 'score'

i'd like it to be 'gee, these people need help' instead of 'wow, the princess is hot, guess we should help her'

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 06:43 PM
ROFLMAO!!!! :D That is it EXACTLY!!! its is not about kissing or sex...it this


sexy alien chick (like they never have size 12 women on these planets) falls for the 'wmah' who then falls victim to testosterone, does silly things in a 'mine is bigger' contest to 'prove' himself to said lady...and is rarely called for his actions, rather his friends look upon him as 'cool' and 'neat' and 'whatta guy' :rolleyes:

and I have to get behind the idea that the entire Star gate Franchise needs new writers.....man I am behind THAT 100%....200%....300% :)

Pajus
February 14th, 2008, 06:51 PM
What will she contribute to the storyline besides flirting with the male cast?

Having babies with the male cast, maybe?


I have to agree that it is mistake to bring back Beckett. He died a heroes death why taint that with a unrealastic return. Their is a fine line with Beckett's return.

(Sunday is one of my favorites too;))

I've got a fee?ing I'll be writing many How it should have been stories about that one


i see a lot of similarities between shep and cameron.

devil may care recklessness and disregard for one's own safety

falling for a pretty face and low cut gown

but, to sheps' credit, he hasn't quite descended to cam's supreme level of silliness...yet ;)

And Cam has not descended to Sheppard's level of criminal behavior... yet

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 06:52 PM
Tame great to hear from you. I hate Kirking with a passion. I though TPTB and RDA did a great job with the Jack character. Jack did not go around trying to be a ladies man our making crude comments to Women. Jack was with three Women. Kynthia, The first woman he was with and he was drugged. The second woman Laira, Jack though he was stuck on the planet forever and the third women Kerry, Jack though Sam was getting married.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Please let's not give TPTB any ideas. Were almost getting it as it is. If seen less fantasy in The Wizard Of Oz.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 06:56 PM
It's uncanny Sky. No wonder those two seemed to get along so well.

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 06:56 PM
It does somewhat boggle the mind that the same PTB that made such a good ensemble show for so many years has begun to make this show more and more about *frat boy humor* .....*sigh*

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Tame I'm not sure it's really the same TPTB that had a big hand in the early success of SG-1. I think of Brad Wright being around in the early days. RCC and JM came aboard later. They were bumped up from writers to show runners. With all due respect I think RCC and JM have done a bad job as show runners. Being a writer does not mean you can be a good show runner.

Skydiver
February 14th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Tame great to hear from you. I hate Kirking with a passion. I though TPTB and RDA did a great job with the Jack character. Jack did not go around trying to be a ladies man our making crude comments to Women. Jack was with three Women. Kynthia, The first woman he was with and he was drugged. The second woman Laira, Jack though he was stuck on the planet forever and the third women Kerry, Jack though Sam was getting married.
jack had fun flirting...but that's all it ever was. (cept for those 3 of course)

he knew where to draw the line and keep things above board and respectful

he never really descended into 'american pie' type of leering

Skydiver
February 14th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Tame I'm not sure it's really the same TPTB that had a big hand in the early success of SG-1. I think of Brad Wright being around in the early days. RCC and JM came aboard later. They were bumped up from writers to show runners. With all due respect I think RCC and JM have done a bad job as show runners. Being a writer does not mean you can be a good show runner.
things did change with season four of sg1. joe and paul et al arrived.

with season 8 on stargate, gekko left, then rick left and, to me, the flavor of hte show drastically changed.

with sga, we have a change from brad to joe with season four

as - to my opinion - stargate has proven, change the chief cook, adn the whole flavor changes

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Tame I'm not sure it's really the same TPTB that had a big hand in the early success of SG-1. I think of Brad Wright being around in the early days. RCC and JM came aboard later. They were bumped up from writers to show runners. With all due respect I think RCC and JM have done a bad job as show runners. Being a writer does not mean you can be a good show runner.
I think you are correct
and I have to agree
Brad Wright will be MISSED!!!!

Can I just say that my favorite producer is Brad Wright. Please don't flame me. :S

since I wouldn't allow anyone to be flamed here :D I will have to just agree with you :D

Brad Wright is my fave as well and I do think SGA is showing the lack of his involvment VERY MUCH!!!!

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 07:10 PM
things did change with season four of sg1. joe and paul et al arrived.

with season 8 on stargate, gekko left, then rick left and, to me, the flavor of hte show drastically changed.

with sga, we have a change from brad to joe with season four

as - to my opinion - stargate has proven, change the chief cook, adn the whole flavor changes

good analogy!

each pairing of Showrunners has made some drastic and some subtle changes

unfortunately NOT all of them have made the show better :(

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I think Brad Wright has done a good job. I think it's also fair to lay some blame at Scifi's feet as well. I get the feeling Showtime let Bridge have more control. It would not surprise me if SciFi is the cause of a lot of problems.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:18 PM
Good points. There has also been talk of Brad writing a third movie and having a bigger involvement from RDA in the movie. I would love to see RDA play the star in one of these movies. The show always had great success with RDA. I would still love to see an SG-1 movie with just the original cast. I hope RDA time is used well for the 2nd movie.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Very interesting indeed. It's seems it's been more creative decision than actor. Torri already said she did not ask off the show and I doubt Rainbow and Paul did as well. I could be wrong.

ToasterOnFire
February 14th, 2008, 07:21 PM
with season 8 on stargate, gekko left, then rick left and, to me, the flavor of hte show drastically changed.
Didn't they also lost their military advisor after s8? That also changed SG1 IMO, especially with how the Sam/Cam leadership fiasco was handled. I don't think SGA ever had an advisor and therefore it never had that strict military realism that SG1 had in its early years.

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I think Brad Wright has done a good job. I think it's also fair to lay some blame at Scifi's feet as well. I get the feeling Showtime let Bridge have more control. It would not surprise me if SciFi is the cause of a lot of problems.

well the Promo Dept ruins A LOT with those ads of thiers that is for sure :eek: I have had more things spoiled for this show by that then here on the Forum...*Sheesh*

justhere1971
February 14th, 2008, 07:23 PM
That an the unfortunate episode leaking. Once is an accident, twice a massive oversight, 3rd time - I will be joining Mulder on an X-files. TY.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:24 PM
Your secret is safe. I get the feeling Brad was not happy as well. I still think in 20 years we may get a behind the scenes special and we may discover SciFi was pushing for these cast changes. If that's the case I'll owe RCC and JM an apology.

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 07:26 PM
Your secret is safe. I get the feeling Brad was not happy as well. I still think in 20 years we may get a behind the scenes special and we may discover SciFi was pushing for these cast changes. If that's the case I'll owe RCC and JM an apology.

well until then.... I am going to continue believing that BOTH of them leave alot to be desired as showrunners :)

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:29 PM
TPTB might as well shown Sam/Cam flipping a coin for leadership of SG-1. Mitchell has no gate training and is just handed SG-1 over Sam with a ton of training. Mitchell plays a part in helping SG-1 and get injured and he automatically gets to pick his assignment? Mitchell was doing his job.

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 07:32 PM
I don't think folks realize how much say the network has in the decision making. Yes, If I want the best case scenario it would be to keep Weir on Full-time and as leader. Do you ever think someone from SCI FI said to the producers, well we are cancelling SG-1, and you have Amanda Tapping still under contract, maybe you should put her on SGA?
I think the networks have some say in every show personally

however I don't think this far into a show they would force any casting changes. In the case of Weir and Sam... I firmly believe that was the TPTB just making a decision

I was not real thrilled with even MORE SG-1 cross over...cause i think Shadow made the best point earlier that SGA was making it as its OWN SHOW for just a little while before they started bringing over the SG-1 cast and the show has just never really been on its own.... sadly I feel that has been lazy show making and lazy writing on TPTB's part

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:33 PM
I could see that happening. I think the mistake that was made was TPTB should have tried checking with AT to see if she wanted to commit to Atlantis for the long haul before putting her on Atlantis. AT has been playing the same character for 11 years and TPTB new of her involvement with her new show. Now TPTB have more cast changes.

cajuncayenne
February 14th, 2008, 07:34 PM
I have never recovered from near the ending of season 3. :(My complaints include the rapid cast changes. Characters we cared about gone and replaced then replaced again.

I don't feel that the writers write very well. Some do but most do not. Female characters often appear wooden and inconsistent. Season 5 brings a team of women and a full time keller. No doubt they will be extremly youg and attractive and be poorly written. Teyla is a huge example. She has never been written well. This includes the boyfriend thing.

I have huge misgivings about Keller. These complaints stand by themselves even when you take away the fact that she repaced carson in order to draw in more male viewers and so she could give ronin a girlfriend. I like the actress but not the character. She will be left in charge so Carson will be a lab checker or expendable team member number 5.

The multiple changes in leadership also concern me. I liked Weir even when the writers did what I mentioned above. I like woolsey but he will be comic relief or a huge void. It will depend on how Shep and McKay are writen. I don't care for anything Larrin related and I think the lack on canon memory is annoying.

Here is the big kicker....I don't want sg1 characters on atlantis. Thats why the show was made. So it would not be sg1. I don't want Sam, Daniel or Tealc to have two part arcs on Atlantis. I want Atlantis characters to be well written and used in well written stories about themelves.

ses110
February 14th, 2008, 07:39 PM
I never excepted Mitchell and Vala. I though SG-1 would not work as soon as i heard about BB and CB. It's nothing against BB and CB. They seem like great people. I though it was to much of a change and a shock to the system in bringing in two stars from another SciFi show. I though most long time fans would not except it. I think TPTB should have just added the Hailey character. That gives you two women on SG-1 and you could have the teacher and mentor relationship. It would have been interesting and the Show would still feel like SG-1. I also though the Ori were a bad idea.

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 07:47 PM
I guess I don't really think of Woolsey as an SG-1 character since he was only a few episodes. However, I would like to see SGA stand on it own feet and not continue to rely on SG-1 throwbacks ...be it story lines, characters OR writers ;)

that would be my biggest misgiving AND complaint...

oh and I have long lamented how horribly they write the women...again I will site Shadow's earlier post though ALL of the writers in this franchise have written the women poorly, be it male or female. So the need for some GOOD fresh writers would be a welcome relief

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 07:51 PM
perhaps a female writer?

possibly...you would hope a female writer would have a bit more insight into how a female would react in certain situations BUT if even the female writer is not a good writer it won't much matter

ShadowMaat
February 14th, 2008, 08:22 PM
I've just come up with a brilliant theory to explain everything: Atlantis is TPTB's midlife crisis. It explains everything! What do men having a midlife crisis do? Cling to their treasured past (SG-1) and go after younger and younger women (just look at the cast). A man going through a midlife crisis can be a lot like a horny teenage male- obsessed with sex/women, fast rides and in this case we'll add in big explosions, too (and not go in any pervy directions with that, thank you). Atlantis has a LOT more ships than it used to- none of them bigger than Atlantis itself, and we all know men are obsessed with size. :P

That's gotta be it. All the problems with Atlantis, from the prevalence of busty females to the juvenelizing of the characters to the bigger and better ships to the inability to stay on one subject (or one cast line-up)... SGA is a midlife crisis. I rest my case. :)

TameFarrar
February 14th, 2008, 08:45 PM
and viola...just like that we know the answer...wanna take on Male Bonding rituals next ;)

Redhooks
February 14th, 2008, 09:23 PM
My biggest complaint for season 4, which is now a misgiving for season 5, is the overall uneveness of the episodes for this series. It is hard for me to believe sometimes the same writers have written some excellent episodes and then turn around and put out some real stinkers. I think that the writers on the show are competent enough, but by having them around for so long most of the good ideas have already been mined from their brains. I think that they just need some new blood in the room when they are "spinning" ideas for episodes. I think that is why there seems to be a number of episodes that seem like re-hashes of previous SG-1 stories because it was probably the same writer who came up with the original idea and still thinks it is good one. As much as this show is written by "committee," it seems like it waters down some of the more interesting off-beat type episodes. "Too many cooks spoil the soup." I also think the lack of a show bible has been detrimental to some continuity over the 4 seasons it has been on.

I noticed a lot of hate for Larrin in the early posts on this thread and I have to say as a big Jill Wagner fan, I am not real happy with how Larrin has been written so far, either. In the spring and summer when there was a lot of talk about this character and how she was going to be a strong female leader, I thought this was a great role for Jill to get. Then when I started seeing some of the preview clips for Travelers, I started to become worried that Larrin was being written much different than my intrepretation of a strong character. When I saw the episode I knew that a strong, smart female leader was not the way the character was written. She was more the cliched hot, strutting hard-ass female who did not show much in the way of leadership ability.

While Travelers does have some good moments, I think the overall plot was poorly conceived in that it was a bad introduction episode for "the new, powerful, and technologically advanced human race" that TPTB had been touting all summer. We really learn nothing detailed about the Travelers and are only given brief glimses as to who they are and how did they get to the point that they are at. I think I learned more about the Travelers by reading and seeing interviews with Joe Mallozzi and Paul Mullie than I did in the episode. Instead, Travelers was more a comic relief/action exercise with a lot of over the top dialogue and not much substance outside of a few good ideas ("you should have said initiate inertia dampners" being the best idea/moment of the whole episode.) Sheppard was alternately shown as very dumb/out of character and then smart and competent. Unfortunately, the dumb moments out numbered the smart ones to me. In BAMSR, Larrin was not given any intelligent lines and again was used as comic relief although I thought it was better done than it was in Travelers due to the fewer times it occurred. It seemed like she was there only because the Travelers ships were needed and there was no real explanation as to why they would join an alliance with the Wraith and let them know they existed. I hope in season 5 that she is written more of the way she was promised when season 4 was being filmed then what ended up on the TV.

Linzi
February 15th, 2008, 12:26 AM
Like Ali, I have concerns about Carson in season 5. I don't understand why you'd kill off a character, just to bring him/her back really. I'm hoping I'm wrong and that the way he's incorporated into the show will be good.

I have one main concern though. That's the character focus episodes. I haven't always enjoyed the way in season 4 that some episodes have been dedicated to one sole character to the exclusion of everyone else. I understand season 4 had baby issues, and so understand, but I'm not sure I want episodes with one character and not really anyone else. Even if it's my favourite character. I enjoy my fav characters WHEN they interact with the team, and I am worried that if this trend continues into season 5 that I will be disappointed at the lack of a team feel to the show. :)

Reefgirl
February 15th, 2008, 01:31 AM
My only complaint is Weir not returning next season. There was so much potential in that story arc that could of likely gone on for several episodes. I am afraid if they visit the story arc without Weir, it will not be as interesting and likely very dull.
Unless they hit that Reset button with a jackhammer and bring back Blonde Weir from SG-1 you're going to be out of luck, I seriously doubt that Brunette Weir (Seeing as we're not allowed to mention actors by name) will be seen again, not after they way the Ways were parted


I've just come up with a brilliant theory to explain everything: Atlantis is TPTB's midlife crisis. It explains everything! What do men having a midlife crisis do? Cling to their treasured past (SG-1) and go after younger and younger women (just look at the cast). A man going through a midlife crisis can be a lot like a horny teenage male- obsessed with sex/women, fast rides and in this case we'll add in big explosions, too (and not go in any pervy directions with that, thank you). Atlantis has a LOT more ships than it used to- none of them bigger than Atlantis itself, and we all know men are obsessed with size. :P

That's gotta be it. All the problems with Atlantis, from the prevalence of busty females to the juvenelizing of the characters to the bigger and better ships to the inability to stay on one subject (or one cast line-up)... SGA is a midlife crisis. I rest my case. :)
I couldn't have said it better myself, I'd green you but I can't so have an unofficial one

At the moment I can't think of a good enough reason to watch series 5

Personally I think the bringing back of Carson is a knee-jerk reaction to the hysteria from 2 years ago when it was announced that he was leaving the show, the show runners realized that they'd made a huge mistake with their decisions to get rid of him and bringing him back to rectify their mistake and drag the Carson fans back is too little too late.

The cast changes don't bother me but the facts that the boobs are getting bigger is, why not get Pamela Anderson and Jordan in and stop fannying around trying to convince the fan's that this is the direction the show needs to go in and the characters will bring depth to Atlantis :rolleyes:

My biggest gripe is the lack of fresh writers, the only thing that will save the show and make me watch again is if they clear out the Frat Boy mentality that has ruined the last series and a half of a once great show and get in some fresh blood, like Paul Cornell and Stephen Moffat who can write proper creepy sci fi

Kliggins
February 15th, 2008, 02:40 AM
I think the networks have some say in every show personally

however I don't think this far into a show they would force any casting changes. In the case of Weir and Sam... I firmly believe that was the TPTB just making a decision

I was not real thrilled with even MORE SG-1 cross over...cause i think Shadow made the best point earlier that SGA was making it as its OWN SHOW for just a little while before they started bringing over the SG-1 cast and the show has just never really been on its own.... sadly I feel that has been lazy show making and lazy writing on TPTB's part

I have never been a fan of the SG1 over in SGA from season 1. I always wanted SGA to be its own show and that has been disappearing more each year. It is only one of the things that disturbs me about season 5.

Kliggins
February 15th, 2008, 02:50 AM
For me its not really about the kissing or the flirting itself...its more the overall mentality behind it and the writing that goes along with it. Its how they make the character out to be.

In the Original Star Trek Kirk always dealt with the *women or woman of the planet* and usually ended up either fighting on their behalf, sort of as a chivalrous action, kissing the woman or drooling around her and making a mistake that put the crew in some sort of jeopardy and the action began.

That is not to say that Spock or McCoy didn't have their moments as well with a woman or two or some sort of sexual tension that got the whole crew in trouble its just that Kirk was the main Lead Male and did it the most often....That is what I think of when I call it Kirking.

So my definition is a bit different then most others here on the Forum. Its sort of a *dumbing down of a Male Lead JUST because there is a woman in the scene...does that make more sense???

You make perfect sense and I am surprised the PTB continue to do it, becauase it really doesn't work in today's television. In the late 60's,(:rolleyes:) yes, I remember them, a lot of television was like that with the male leads being very manly and the females being helpless. I kind of give Kirk and those like him a little slack because of the era the show aired. Now, I think it just weakens a character and makes that character seem dated as if they should be in Star Trek and not SGA.

VSS
February 15th, 2008, 03:36 AM
I've just come up with a brilliant theory to explain everything: Atlantis is TPTB's midlife crisis. It explains everything! What do men having a midlife crisis do? Cling to their treasured past (SG-1) and go after younger and younger women (just look at the cast). A man going through a midlife crisis can be a lot like a horny teenage male- obsessed with sex/women, fast rides and in this case we'll add in big explosions, too (and not go in any pervy directions with that, thank you). Atlantis has a LOT more ships than it used to- none of them bigger than Atlantis itself, and we all know men are obsessed with size. :P

That's gotta be it. All the problems with Atlantis, from the prevalence of busty females to the juvenelizing of the characters to the bigger and better ships to the inability to stay on one subject (or one cast line-up)... SGA is a midlife crisis. I rest my case. :)

I think you're right. As a new SGA fan it's just not coming together for me. First, I had to get to know the characters, some of which I already knew from SG-1 and a couple of eps like "Rising." and "Critical Mass" (sigh- the good old days). But the Keller character doesn't work for me and now they're adding at least two or three more members- I have lost track- add Carson back and it's four. How the heck can there be any character development? It was already over-casted to begin with. In SG-1 you had a really small cast and it was possible to get to know them . With SGA it's the adventure of the week and I am very disappointed. Someone pointed out there are 4 stand-alone eps in a row this half of the season. I think I'm going to be confused. They're picking flash over substance. My feeling is that they want Season 5 and the end of the show to go out with a big bang- and not a lot else.

Skydiver
February 15th, 2008, 04:13 AM
i don't care about the gender of the writers, i'd just like someone with some fresh ideas and some sense of dignity

i'm tired of all alien women being pretty, thin little things with her boobs hanging out throwing herself all over shep or rod. or the male aliens being lascivious letchers that are only good for a yuk-yuk joke.

i'm sick of jokes at the cost of other characters and juvenile humor.

i want cruddy slapstick, i'll put in American Pie or some other piece of drek.

the show used to have some real dignity and didnt need explosions to tell a story.

i think back to Tangent, where the characters were separated for 90% of the show, but there was this quiet desperation to save jack and teal'c...and this dignified impendinig death sense and it was just fun. these people cared for and about each other.

beyond the clumsy shep/teyla and shep/weir, there's not much caring going on iwth the sga crew. (my opinion, no offense to anyone that likes it....i just personally wouldn't use shep for anything but sex :) . he's too immature for anything beyond that. and these writers couldn't write a real relationship if their lives depended on it)

and honestly, shep is such an immature soul, who would want him???? its' like cameron being the 'wow, what a great leader' in season 9 and 10....who then acted like a 19 year old on ritalyn.

you can't have 'responsible leader' and 'roguish youthfulness' in the same character. but these writers seem obsessed with that characterization.

Linzi
February 15th, 2008, 04:35 AM
i don't care about the gender of the writers, i'd just like someone with some fresh ideas and some sense of dignity

Have to say, there are as many poor female as male writers around. I don't think women write better than men, or vice versa, personally.



i'm tired of all alien women being pretty, thin little things with her boobs hanging out throwing herself all over shep or rod. or the male aliens being lascivious letchers that are only good for a yuk-yuk joke.

I'm tired of the medieval style costumes. For goodness sakes, don't the denizens of the Pegasus Galaxy wear anything else? ;)




i'm sick of jokes at the cost of other characters and juvenile humor.

Didn't like the attack on Zelenka in Trio. Unforgiveable, totally unbelievable and not funny in my eyes. I actually was insulted on poor Radek's behalf. I can't believe that one slipped through the net, so to speak :(


i want cruddy slapstick, i'll put in American Pie or some other piece of drek.

the show used to have some real dignity and didnt need explosions to tell a story.

i think back to Tangent, where the characters were separated for 90% of the show, but there was this quiet desperation to save jack and teal'c...and this dignified impendinig death sense and it was just fun. these people cared for and about each other.

beyond the clumsy shep/teyla and shep/weir, there's not much caring going on iwth the sga crew. (my opinion, no offense to anyone that likes it....i just personally wouldn't use shep for anything but sex :) . he's too immature for anything beyond that. and these writers couldn't write a real relationship if their lives depended on it)

You'd use Shep for sex? :eek: I'm shocked! I'd NEVER do that! ;) Honest, I wouldn't...no way...I'd never think of him in that way...it's just not who I am...yeah, right! ;)

No arguments from me on the ship stuff. YUK. Shep settle down? Good grief, I don't think so somehow!



and honestly, shep is such an immature soul, who would want him???? its' like cameron being the 'wow, what a great leader' in season 9 and 10....who then acted like a 19 year old on ritalyn.

you can't have 'responsible leader' and 'roguish youthfulness' in the same character. but these writers seem obsessed with that characterization.


You know I love Shep to bits, but him settle down? Nope. I just can't see it. I don't see him as immature per se, more a restless soul who doesn't want the emotional baggage which inevitably comes with a relationship. But, I don't disagree relationship stuff isn't written well by the writers often. I can't get over Katie and Rodney. The pair of them seems so disfunctional and naive together. Are people in their thirties really like that? :lol: Sorry if anyone here is! ;) )

marielabbott
February 15th, 2008, 04:46 AM
Is anyone else very fearful that Teyla's baby will be kidnapped? :S Man, I do not want to see that happen. Cliche, cliche, cliche.

justhere1971
February 15th, 2008, 04:54 AM
Is anyone else very fearful that Teyla's baby will be kidnapped? :S Man, I do not want to see that happen. Cliche, cliche, cliche.

By aliens? :lol: I will go in with you on that bet -- if there is a bet.

Integrabyte
February 15th, 2008, 04:54 AM
i'm tired of all alien women being pretty, thin little things with her boobs hanging out throwing herself all over shep or rod. or the male aliens being lascivious letchers that are only good for a yuk-yuk joke.

I had nothing with the girls until they started abusing this idea. I liked Chaya because there was more about her than the rest. She was alone all that time and she needed some company. It is understandable that she wanted to hook up with John. The second woman, the one learning to ascend started to show a pattern. John was a magnet for ascending women. Okay, I said no worries, John stayed there all that time she cared for him, it is normal. Then the lady from inferno started hitting on him. The glass was getting slowly full. The glass was spilled and shattered when Larrin showed up. The only reason for them to hook up was their toight pants :P. Whenever I see Sheppard with a woman, I fast forward because I know she will drool all over him and his gel.


i'm sick of jokes at the cost of other characters and juvenile humor.

The target audience wants that so we are the minority. What we would like to see does not apply for everyone :P.



the show used to have some real dignity and didnt need explosions to tell a story.

Here is a noodle for you. Spot on. Some people think size matters some CGI :P



beyond the clumsy shep/teyla and shep/weir, there's not much caring going on iwth the sga crew. (my opinion, no offense to anyone that likes it....i just personally wouldn't use shep for anything but sex :) . he's too immature for anything beyond that. and these writers couldn't write a real relationship if their lives depended on it)


You are trying to impress me aren't ye? :P

Amazing post Sky, you should do it more often ;)

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 04:57 AM
I've just come up with a brilliant theory to explain everything: Atlantis is TPTB's midlife crisis. It explains everything! What do men having a midlife crisis do? Cling to their treasured past (SG-1) and go after younger and younger women (just look at the cast). A man going through a midlife crisis can be a lot like a horny teenage male- obsessed with sex/women, fast rides and in this case we'll add in big explosions, too (and not go in any pervy directions with that, thank you). Atlantis has a LOT more ships than it used to- none of them bigger than Atlantis itself, and we all know men are obsessed with size. :P

That's gotta be it. All the problems with Atlantis, from the prevalence of busty females to the juvenelizing of the characters to the bigger and better ships to the inability to stay on one subject (or one cast line-up)... SGA is a midlife crisis. I rest my case. :)

That's it! :D Oh my goddess, that's the answer to everything. Can't green you but this is so totally correct.... Unfortunately :(

To the bolded part -> You shouldn't have added the part in brackets. You really shouldn't have said that. :S


get in some fresh blood, like Paul Cornell and Stephen Moffat who can write proper creepy sci fi

Holy hell... yes! Y-E-S!!!


Is anyone else very fearful that Teyla's baby will be kidnapped? :S Man, I do not want to see that happen. Cliche, cliche, cliche.

Well, I'm quite sure something's going to happen to the wee lad. The temptation not to is just way too big, and it would turn Teyla darker, right? Right? ... Yeah right... :rolleyes:

Alipeeps
February 15th, 2008, 05:09 AM
Although, according to JM, I think this is the direction they want to go in for Zelenka, which has me scared for S5. Maybe he'll start cross-dressing next! :S (spoilers for JM's blog)

Itxas lamia writes: “…the most destacable one being the infamous ‘Zelenka bashing’ one.

[…]…honestly I can’t imagine Weir saying such things.”

Answer: In all fairness, there is a scene from the season 3 episode Common Ground in which two dozen pairs of women’s shoes are discovered in Zelenka’s closet including Weir’s missing patent leather pumps. Unfortunately, the scene was cut for time but the deleted footage can still be found among the boxset special features.

Seriously?? He's breaking into people's rooms and stealing their stuff?? They wanted to include that in Common Ground? :S



I honestly thought the whole Zelenka w/ Shoes in closet comment was a joke. Was it really a thought/idea to put in the episode?

Awww how can anyone want to degrade Dr.Z?

It was a joke guys - just Mallozzi being his usual sarcastic self. If you're not sure, think about this: Zelenka wasn't even in Common Ground and they wouldn't have brought David in just to film a scene like that that bore no relation to the rest of the story.


I would consider this an anti thread to discuss what issues you have with the show. if you don't have issues there is another thread to post what you like about the show.

I'm not here to bash the show and flame people. I'm hear to discuss issues I have about the changes and general writing with others who feel similar to the way I do.

This thread is open to people of all opinions to express their misgivings... it's not just those "who feel similar to the way [you] do"... someone's misgivings may be the exact opposite of your misgivings but they're still misgivings and still on topic.


I have one main concern though. That's the character focus episodes. I haven't always enjoyed the way in season 4 that some episodes have been dedicated to one sole character to the exclusion of everyone else. I understand season 4 had baby issues, and so understand, but I'm not sure I want episodes with one character and not really anyone else. Even if it's my favourite character. I enjoy my fav characters WHEN they interact with the team, and I am worried that if this trend continues into season 5 that I will be disappointed at the lack of a team feel to the show. :)

Yeah, I'm kind of with you there. I have enjoyed some of the solo character focus eps well enough (selfishly, the ones with Sheppard in! ;)) but they're not necessarily ones I would rewatch a lot... I like pretty all the characters but I like them as a team and how they interact with each other. Short of the obvious - Sheppard - I'm not really interested enough in any of the other characters to be all that interested in an episode that focuses pretty much exclusively on them. I mean, I was pleased for Rachel to get Missing and have such a focus on her character for the episode... and I enjoyed the ep.. but I've never rewatched it. I'm not interested enough in Teyla on her own (or Teyla and Keller). Now, an ep that focused on Teyla but showed her interacting with Rodney and Sheppard and Ronon etc.. I would probably really enjoy.

As Linzi said, I think the unusual amount of these episodes in Season 4 has been mostly down to baby issues, with Rachel's pregnancy and both Jason and David facing impending fatherhood, so I do hope it is a trend that doesn't continue in Season 5.

marielabbott
February 15th, 2008, 05:10 AM
By aliens? :lol: I will go in with you on that bet -- if there is a bet.

Micheal is my theory. Please, don't let this be true. :S



Well, I'm quite sure something's going to happen to the wee lad. The temptation not to is just way too big, and it would turn Teyla darker, right? Right? ... Yeah right... :rolleyes:

If they want dark--I mean really depressing dark--and solve the problem of what to do with the child, they could kill him. But I don't think TPTB would do that. Nor do I want them too. But kidnapping would add some angst for Teyla and keep her stepping through the gate, searching for him. It seems like an easy solution, that's why I'm really afraid the writers will take this route. :S I would much rather see her struggle with being a parent to a normal child and balancing her duties on the team.

Reefgirl
February 15th, 2008, 05:14 AM
i don't care about the gender of the writers, i'd just like someone with some fresh ideas and some sense of dignity

i'm tired of all alien women being pretty, thin little things with her boobs hanging out throwing herself all over shep or rod. or the male aliens being lascivious letchers that are only good for a yuk-yuk joke.

i'm sick of jokes at the cost of other characters and juvenile humor.

i want cruddy slapstick, i'll put in American Pie or some other piece of drek.

the show used to have some real dignity and didnt need explosions to tell a story.

i think back to Tangent, where the characters were separated for 90% of the show, but there was this quiet desperation to save jack and teal'c...and this dignified impendinig death sense and it was just fun. these people cared for and about each other.

beyond the clumsy shep/teyla and shep/weir, there's not much caring going on iwth the sga crew. (my opinion, no offense to anyone that likes it....i just personally wouldn't use shep for anything but sex :) . he's too immature for anything beyond that. and these writers couldn't write a real relationship if their lives depended on it)

and honestly, shep is such an immature soul, who would want him???? its' like cameron being the 'wow, what a great leader' in season 9 and 10....who then acted like a 19 year old on ritalyn.

you can't have 'responsible leader' and 'roguish youthfulness' in the same character. but these writers seem obsessed with that characterization.
A green is winging it's way to you as we speak, that's hit the nail on the head perfectly

I know it's been said before but it's about time Sheppard and Rodney came out of a very overcrowded closet, after all everyone likes to jump on a successful bandwagon and as Torchwood is doing so well on both sides of the Atlantic I'd have thought the writers would have sneaked a little M/M action to boost ratings, they've tried everything else.

Linzi
February 15th, 2008, 05:17 AM
Is anyone else very fearful that Teyla's baby will be kidnapped? :S Man, I do not want to see that happen. Cliche, cliche, cliche.
I don't want that to happen either, because I actually get pretty distressed about kidnapped baby plots. It reminds me of when that's happened to people in RL. :( But what concerns me is how she can carry on on the team with a young baby to look after. How can that happen, if she's nursing etc ? So it's possible it might, I suppose, because it's a convenient way to off load the sprog. Maybe the father could look after him? Or Teyla's people? But would Teyla do that, let go of her child? Hmmm, it's going to be very difficult to explain this one, I think.

Suzotchka
February 15th, 2008, 05:20 AM
Well, I'm quite sure something's going to happen to the wee lad. The temptation not to is just way too big, and it would turn Teyla darker, right? Right? ... Yeah right... :rolleyes:

Last time they wanted things darker they changed the uniforms to leather. :P

justhere1971
February 15th, 2008, 05:25 AM
Micheal is my theory. Please, don't let this be true. :S

If they want dark--I mean really depressing dark--and solve the problem of what to do with the child, they could kill him. But I don't think TPTB would do that. Nor do I want them too. But kidnapping would add some angst for Teyla and keep her stepping through the gate, searching for him. It seems like an easy solution, that's why I'm really afraid the writers will take this route. :S I would much rather see her struggle with being a parent to a normal child and balancing her duties on the team.

And how much will I remember Scully. Nope, no rehashed plots any where to be seen.


Last time they wanted things darker they changed the uniforms to leather. :P

& lowered the lights. But I must say I did enjoy Shep's slight dark turn.

TameFarrar
February 15th, 2008, 05:28 AM
I don't want that to happen either, because I actually get pretty distressed about kidnapped baby plots. It reminds me of when that's happened to people in RL. :( But what concerns me is how she can carry on on the team with a young baby to look after. How can that happen, if she's nursing etc ? So it's possible it might, I suppose, because it's a convenient way to off load the sprog. Maybe the father could look after him? Or Teyla's people? But would Teyla do that, let go of her child? Hmmm, it's going to be very difficult to explain this one, I think.

I have to say here I too hope TPTB don't go this route

first because of the RL implications... but also because SGA isn't about this TO ME. Getting this into one character's whole personal drama is just over the top IMHO and they have done that way to much already with Shep and Rodney.

Even though it is part of the show at this point I have to say I really wish it hadn't of been because it takes the show to a place I am not sure i want to to go.

I miss the *Team*, it is the same lament I had for many moons over SG-1 when TPTB decided *Hey lets get all involved in the characters lives*
They can't seem to find a good writing balance in giving background as they write a great story for the *team*. There have been many a show where the team isn't always all together but each character is doing something that fits into the overall story arc and goal of the show so everything ties together and if it takes one or two episodes it does all pull the finely woven strings into a wonderful woven tapestry of story telling.

I miss that A LOT :(

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 05:29 AM
As Linzi said, I think the unusual amount of these episodes in Season 4 has been mostly down to baby issues, with Rachel's pregnancy and both Jason and David facing impending fatherhood, so I do hope it is a trend that doesn't continue in Season 5.

Or it's due to the fact they gave all their money to the FX-people and had nothing left for the other episodes. They should stop throwing their money out of windows and doors like that... Big explosions don't bring anything to the story other than being pretty (to some).


Last time they wanted things darker they changed the uniforms to leather. :P

And let's not forget, the lights went out... The electricity-bill has gone down considerably in season 4.

TameFarrar
February 15th, 2008, 05:30 AM
Last time they wanted things darker they changed the uniforms to leather. :P

LOLOLOL I never realized that before :D

marielabbott
February 15th, 2008, 05:33 AM
And let's not forget, the lights went out... The electricity-bill has gone down considerably in season 4.

LOL, yes, I hope the lighting gets brighter in season 5. :) Was it a scene in TMC that was so dark you could barely see the sparring fight? If there's sparring, I want to be able to see it.

FoolishPleasure
February 15th, 2008, 06:42 AM
It was a joke guys - just Mallozzi being his usual sarcastic self. If you're not sure, think about this: Zelenka wasn't even in Common Ground and they wouldn't have brought David in just to film a scene like that that bore no relation to the rest of the story.


On JM's blog, he was being completely sarcastic when he mentioned Zelenka stealing Weir's shoes in Common Ground. That was never written or filmed. He was just being snarky because so many people called him on the Zelenka thing. Heaven forbid any of TPTB would admit they did something dumb.

Killdeer
February 15th, 2008, 06:45 AM
I miss the *Team*, it is the same lament I had for many moons over SG-1 when TPTB decided *Hey lets get all involved in the characters lives*
They can't seem to find a good writing balance in giving background as they write a great story for the *team*. There have been many a show where the team isn't always all together but each character is doing something that fits into the overall story arc and goal of the show so everything ties together and if it takes one or two episodes it does all pull the finely woven strings into a wonderful woven tapestry of story telling.

I miss that A LOT :(


I agree. SG-1 started going down that road in S7 and I really think it was a mistake. I always thought things started going downhill for SG-1 in S7 (and really hit bottom in S8). And S9-10 weren't great either, although I don't have some of the same issues that other people have with those seasons. SG-1 was much better pre S6, when they focused on the team and didn't have so much of the individual character episodes. There wasn't much team IMO for SG-1 past S6 (And I'm leaving S6 out because that whole season is mostly a blur to me so I can't give an opinion on it).

Yet Mallozzi has said that S7 & 8 (along with 4-his first season) are his favorites. That's why I'm concerned that this trend toward individual character episodes is not simply scheduling issues but may be in some ways because that's just the way he likes it. And if that's the case, we may be in for more of this next year. I hope not, but it does have me worried.


On JM's blog, he was being completely sarcastic when he mentioned Zelenka stealing Weir's shoes in Common Ground. That was never written or filmed. He was just being snarky because so many people called him on the Zelenka thing. Heaven forbid any of TPTB would admit they did something dumb.

Thank you - that's a relief. :S I loaned my SGA sets out so I couldn't check. :o

Yes, there was near unanimous disapproval of the Zelenka bashing.

Killdeer
February 15th, 2008, 06:56 AM
I agree about Season 9. But I thought Season 7 was excellent. It was a step up from Season 6. We had eps like Heroes and Lost City in S7! I enjoyed Season 8 because it had a great start and a great finish, but there is a catch the season finale was not the best. The season should of ended with Threads, imo.

I like a season to be consistant. Two or three awesome episodes a season don't make it great. S8 had the Reckoning 2 parter, which was one of the best, but I still think S8 is the worst season of the run. (I wasn't so crazy about Threads, but yes, it should have been the season ender). S7 had a few good episodes, but it also had episodes like Revisions, Space Race, Avenger 2.0, and Fragile Balance, and there was very little team to be seen, except in the season beginning and ending.

It's a trend that I'm afraid that Atlantis will repeat. We've already seen it start this season - hopefully it doesn't continue.

TameFarrar
February 15th, 2008, 06:57 AM
I agree about Season 9. But I thought Season 7 was excellent. It was a step up from Season 6. We had eps like Heroes and Lost City in S7! I enjoyed Season 8 because it had a great start and a great finish, but there is a catch the season finale was not the best. The season should of ended with Threads, imo.

Guys I am gonna respectfully redirect you back to SGA season 5 :D now

while its okay to make references to whatever I don't want to see this go off into a tangent about SG-1 and its short comings when the thread is about Season 5 and the complaints and misgivings for that Season :)

ShadowMaat
February 15th, 2008, 07:10 AM
The way I see it, Teyla's baby only has three options:

1. Get kidnapped.
2. Grow instantly to adulthood (on the younger side, of course).
3. Both.

TPTB aren't going to stick themselves with a squalling baby for years on end. We'll never see the poor thing grow up. And there are a lot of genre shows to rip off- X-Files, Angel, 4400, SG-1, and those are just the ones off the top of my head. :rolleyes: Maybe we'll wind up with another Adria, since that's the easiest source for TPTB to cannibalize. That's just what Atlantis needs, too: another busty young female.

As for Zelenka, whether the shoes thing was a joke or not, they're still leaning towards making him some kind of perv and I hate that. I bet if Shep went around sniffing hair it'd be seen as cool and kinda sexy, but for Radek it's just creepy. :rolleyes:

ses110
February 15th, 2008, 07:50 AM
I remember TPTB always use to say No RDA no new seasons. It was their mantra. I'm still surprised Season 8 was not the last. We could have had three or four Movies by now. RDA always said he was interested in doing SG-1 Movies. I think it was a classic example of a show going on past it's prime. Most TPTB do not know when and how to wrap up a show.

Suzotchka
February 15th, 2008, 07:52 AM
I could get behind the idea of RDA in S5. Even if we had a handful of episodes. It's better than Woolsey.

Bring back Jack!

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 07:53 AM
Most TPTB do not know when and how to wrap up a show.

And they also don't know how to let go of the cancelled one and focus on the surviving one. :S

ShadowMaat
February 15th, 2008, 07:55 AM
I'd be more interested in whether or not TPTB would try to continue the show if/when Joe F decides to bail. Or if all his complaints and misgivings will be "forgotten" provided they give him enough money. ;) That could work in our favor- if they start paying off Joe to stick around, they might have to eliminate some of the buxom babe roles they keep creating. On the other hand, though, it's more likely that Lorne and Zelenka would get killed than one of the more nubile characters. *sigh*

ses110
February 15th, 2008, 07:56 AM
Very true. I do get the feeling Bridge wanted Season 8 to be the last and just focus on Atlantis. I think that would have been the best course of action.

Jackie
February 15th, 2008, 07:56 AM
And they also don't know how to let go of the cancelled one and focus on the surviving one. :S

it's par for the course. Just look at the general direction of the show. It's all over the place with a collage of stand alone eps.

Tptb also don't seem to be able to pick one plot arc and stick with it.:mckay:

Jackie
February 15th, 2008, 07:58 AM
I'd be more interested in whether or not TPTB would try to continue the show if/when Joe F decides to bail. Or if all his complaints and misgivings will be "forgotten" provided they give him enough money. ;) That could work in our favor- if they start paying off Joe to stick around, they might have to eliminate some of the buxom babe roles they keep creating. On the other hand, though, it's more likely that Lorne and Zelenka would get killed than one of the more nubile characters. *sigh*

Joe has been demoted from star of show to Rodney's side kick. Wouldn't blame him if he bailed too.

but then...who would they cast as sheppard? I know...ben!:cameron::S

ses110
February 15th, 2008, 07:59 AM
I give JF a lot of credit for trying to make things better. I'm not sure he gets enough support from the rest of the cast. I'm sure there is fear from most actors to even speak up and complain.

erb
February 15th, 2008, 08:02 AM
As for Zelenka, whether the shoes thing was a joke or not, they're still leaning towards making him some kind of perv and I hate that. I bet if Shep went around sniffing hair it'd be seen as cool and kinda sexy, but for Radek it's just creepy. :rolleyes:

I hate them trying to make him some kind of pervert, as well.

My husband said the same thing you did when I was talking to him about Zelenka and sniffing hair. A studly character would cast a different light on the action.

I'm sure if Ronon had done the same, Keller would have described it dreamily as being so romantic. But, I gather Zelenka is supposed to be creepy according to Carter and Keller.

Thanks for that. :mad:

Jackie
February 15th, 2008, 08:04 AM
I give JF a lot of credit for trying to make things better. I'm not sure he gets enough support from the rest of the cast. I'm sure there is fear from most actors to even speak up and complain.

there is fear for most employees to speak up and complain in other business too. Over all...if you're not happy where you are working it's best to find another job.

Staying in a job that you hate just makes ya miserable along those in the same boat with you.

It think the show would be set to be tied if DH found another job.

AT left and the best they could do to replace her was Woosley. Just imagine what they would do with no Rodney! (Maybe actually try to write for the other characters?)

Jackie
February 15th, 2008, 08:08 AM
I hate them trying to make him some kind of pervert, as well.

My husband said the same thing you did when I was talking to him about Zelenka and sniffing hair. A studly character would cast a different light on the action.

I'm sure if Ronon had done the same, Keller would have described it dreamily as being so romantic. But, I gather Zelenka is supposed to be creepy according to Carter and Keller.

Thanks for that. :mad:

I also ways like Zelenka becuase he would foil with Rodney. One of the best Zelenka moments was in the first few eps this season when he got a projectile of debris through his leg and he had to continue to fix the thing on the outside of the city. Towards the end of the ep, they have him returning to work with a cane and leg brace becuase he knew he was needed.

Yep, give him one heroic moment then turn him into a perv...that sound like tptb to me.

Chrysalis
February 15th, 2008, 08:08 AM
Gah! I can't green any of you! Stop talking so much sense! :p

My thoughts on SG1 after season 8 -- I think they just wanted to get to the magical 10 years, just as on Atlantis, they wanted the magical 100 eps. I don't think Atlantis is guaranteed a life beyond season five. The five is all it takes to reach 100 eps. After that, it's on its own.

Joe Flanigan's the only one who speaks out because he knows his worth in the whole thing. I heard him speak at Burbank. He talked about actors knowing who they are and going for jobs like that instead of trying to be the leading man when they're a character actor, etc. He's leading man material. He knows that.

I heard Jason Momoa speak once too, about how he went out skateboarding with Joe, and the whole time he was watching him going "If this guy hurts himself, I'm out of a job". They all know how important Joe is in the equation. That gives him the ability to speak about his views without being under thread of the axe.

They did originally want Ben Browder for the role, but really -- if they brought him in as a replacement because Joe wanted out or anything like that, it would kill the show. Without him, they have no show, just as SG1 was effectively over and just filling time to get to 10 years without RDA.

ses110
February 15th, 2008, 08:10 AM
TPTB better hope DH does not leave because they will be forces to write for other characters. I guess that's why TPTB give Rodney most of the screentime and storylines. I give DH a lot of credit for playing the McKay character. It cannot be easy. It also cannot be easy fro the rest of the cast who get very little screentime. It cannot help cast harmony.

ses110
February 15th, 2008, 08:18 AM
alyssa your not helping either making so much sense youself. It's getting out of control. lol. I think you nailed it with the 100 episode. That's a magical number and IMO a big reason Atlantis is getting a fifth season. Scifi also wanted that 200 episode of SG-1 for the record. I doubt most of Hollywood cares less about that record.

magictrick
February 15th, 2008, 08:23 AM
Well there are 11 pages already and I can't read through all of it, so most likely most of these have been mentioned already.

I don't find the cast/character changes appealing. To be more specific the leadership change to Woolsey is not something I'm looking forward. I don't mind the character as the occasional guest on the show, but his personality is annoying and seeing him as the leader of Atlantis is just too much.

I guess him and the rest of the Atlantis team would be squaring off a lot more than with previous leaders (who seemed to be more protagonists, whereas Woolsey seems to be more antagonist) and this is supposed to spice up the show, but I'm having doubts on whether it would work.

Weir not coming back is also a downside. In fact, that whole story line of writing her off the show was not done in the best way. This opened room for too many cast changes to happen, not something of an SG formula. SG-1 succeeded because the cast was so consistent for the first 7 seasons - now SGA is just shuffling characters everywhere.

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 08:24 AM
On the other hand, though, it's more likely that Lorne and Zelenka would get killed than one of the more nubile characters. *sigh*

It would suprise me in the least if Zelenka were to bite the dust in season 5. :(


Just imagine what they would do with no Rodney! (Maybe actually try to write for the other characters?)

They replace him with Kavanagh.http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/tease.gif


I heard Jason Momoa speak once too, about how he went out skateboarding with Joe, and the whole time he was watching him going "If this guy hurts himself, I'm out of a job".

Now I'm envisioning JF doing all these cool tricks and stuff on his skateboard. :p


It also cannot be easy fro the rest of the cast who get very little screentime. It cannot help cast harmony.

I had a funny thought last night as I finished wordcount for The Game. I wondered briefly how Rachel and Jason find their lines. Do they highlight them or point them to the right page? :p

ses110
February 15th, 2008, 08:28 AM
I heard aboth that. I just think it very hard for a show to continue without the big star and RDA was a producer as well. He brought more to the table than just acting. After 8 years and your star wants to leave I think you should end the show. I know it was not the Jack O'Neill show but he is a very difficult chracter to replace.

ToasterOnFire
February 15th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Is anyone else very fearful that Teyla's baby will be kidnapped? :S Man, I do not want to see that happen. Cliche, cliche, cliche.
I fear Teyla's baby will be a no-win sitation for me. It's born with super wraith-sensing abilities? Meh. It's some freak experiment of Michael's? Meh. It's stolen and/or killed? Meh. It's perfectly normal and the show turns into SGA: The Baby Years? Yeah, even a talented PTB would have trouble pulling that off, and this PTB ain't that.

I would have rather seen TPTB not bring RL's pregnancy into canon and instead focus on the disappearance of her people. Up the angst and conflict too - so far all we've seen are some mildly harsh words between Shep and Teyla, followed by Teyla agreeing with pretty much everything he's said. Nah, I'd rather see Shep and Carter outright forbid Teyla to take time off from the team to find her people and Teyla say "Screw this then, I'm going off on my own." Maybe even bring Ronon into it - perhaps he'd support her over the Earthers and go with her. I've been wanting a PG vs. Earthers conflict since the teases in Trinity. I doubt TPTB will ever go there - conflict within the team is not their cup of tea.

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 08:32 AM
I would have rather seen TPTB not bring RL's pregnancy into canon and instead focus on the disappearance of her people. Up the angst and conflict too - so far all we've seen are some mildly harsh words between Shep and Teyla, followed by Teyla agreeing with pretty much everything he's said. Nah, I'd rather see Shep and Carter outright forbid Teyla to take time off from the team to find her people and Teyla say "Screw this then, I'm going off on my own." Maybe even bring Ronon into it - perhaps he'd support her over the Earthers and go with her. I've been wanting a PG vs. Earthers conflict since the teases in Trinity. I doubt TPTB will ever go there - conflict within the team is not their cup of tea.

^^Would make a great fanfic... :D

dana
February 15th, 2008, 08:35 AM
I fear Teyla's baby will be a no-win sitation for me. It's born with super wraith-sensing abilities? Meh. It's some freak experiment of Michael's? Meh. It's stolen and/or killed? Meh. It's perfectly normal and the show turns into SGA: The Baby Years? Yeah, even a talented PTB would have trouble pulling that off, and this PTB ain't that.

I would have rather seen TPTB not bring RL's pregnancy into canon and instead focus on the disappearance of her people. Up the angst and conflict too - so far all we've seen are some mildly harsh words between Shep and Teyla, followed by Teyla agreeing with pretty much everything he's said. Nah, I'd rather see Shep and Carter outright forbid Teyla to take time off from the team to find her people and Teyla say "Screw this then, I'm going off on my own." Maybe even bring Ronon into it - perhaps he'd support her over the Earthers and go with her. I've been wanting a PG vs. Earthers conflict since the teases in Trinity. I doubt TPTB will ever go there - conflict within the team is not their cup of tea.

Or any conflict TBH...I have yet to see the Sheppard/Carter conflict they were promising. Who knows maybe there will be conflict Sheppard/Woolsey, since Misbegotten he wanted to put a smackdown on him. :)

Reefgirl
February 15th, 2008, 08:48 AM
It would suprise me in the least if Zelenka were to bite the dust in season 5. :(
If you think the fandom imploded with Weir and Carson were killed off you wait until TPTB announce they're killing off Zelenka :eek: I've trapsed around these boards and lurked in some very strange pthreads and I've never found anyone who's had a bad word to say about Zelenka. I've seen posts that go something like "ABC was a total jerk in this ep he deserved everything he got" or "XYZ should never have been bought in in the first place, she can't cope" I've never seen any comments like that about Zelenka anywhere, it's the first time I've seen universal condemnation of the treatment of a character, usually there has been some "HA!! about bloody time too" from someone, but not this time. If TPTB keep up this line with Zelenka it's not going to come back and bite them on the a$$, it's going to chew it up and spit it out

miss_kaylee
February 15th, 2008, 08:54 AM
If you think the fandom imploded with Weir and Carson were killed off you wait until TPTB announce they're killing off Zelenka :eek: I've trapsed around these boards and lurked in some very strange pthreads and I've never found anyone who's had a bad word to say about Zelenka. I've seen posts that go something like "ABC was a total jerk in this ep he deserved everything he got" or "XYZ should never have been bought in in the first place, she can't cope" I've never seen any comments like that about Zelenka anywhere, it's the first time I've seen universal condemnation of the treatment of a character, usually there has been some "HA!! about bloody time too" from someone, but not this time. If TPTB keep up this line with Zelenka it's not going to come back and bite them on the a$$, it's going to chew it up and spit it out
True dat. Isn't a lot of poster unhappy they way Carter, McKay and Keller talked about Zelenka in Trio?

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 08:55 AM
...it's the first time I've seen universal condemnation of the treatment of a character, usually there has been some "HA!! about bloody time too" from someone, but not this time. If TPTB keep up this line with Zelenka it's not going to come back and bite them on the a$$, it's going to chew it up and spit it out

Oh, I completely agree. He's such a likeable character and David Nykl does such an awesome job bringing him to life. I just love his Czech murmuring and you can bet on it I will promptly start laughing when he starts off in Czech. He's hilarious, and serious when it calls for it.

ShadowMaat
February 15th, 2008, 08:58 AM
It'll be interesting to see what happens to Zelenka now. Will TPTB stubbornly pursue the "Zelenka is a creep" line they tried to draw in Trio? Or will they back off and pretend it never happened and complain about fans being all shrill and lemminglike again and imagining things that were never there? :rolleyes:

Or, as has already been suggested, they could just kill him off and wash their hands of the whole thing. Saves them the trouble of having to figure out what to do and acts as an "up yours" to fans at the same time.

marielabbott
February 15th, 2008, 09:03 AM
I fear Teyla's baby will be a no-win sitation for me. It's born with super wraith-sensing abilities? Meh. It's some freak experiment of Michael's? Meh. It's stolen and/or killed? Meh. It's perfectly normal and the show turns into SGA: The Baby Years? Yeah, even a talented PTB would have trouble pulling that off, and this PTB ain't that.

I would have rather seen TPTB not bring RL's pregnancy into canon and instead focus on the disappearance of her people. Up the angst and conflict too - so far all we've seen are some mildly harsh words between Shep and Teyla, followed by Teyla agreeing with pretty much everything he's said. Nah, I'd rather see Shep and Carter outright forbid Teyla to take time off from the team to find her people and Teyla say "Screw this then, I'm going off on my own." Maybe even bring Ronon into it - perhaps he'd support her over the Earthers and go with her. I've been wanting a PG vs. Earthers conflict since the teases in Trinity. I doubt TPTB will ever go there - conflict within the team is not their cup of tea.

Yeah, I've been thinking it may have been unwise to bring the pregnancy into canon as well. Since Teyla's been missing totally from the last few eps anyway, I like your idea of having her go off to search for her people. That would explain her absence and give some emotional weight to it. As it is, she's just not there.

Speaking of conflict, I've always wanted to see a civilian vs. military episode. They hardly touched that topic since season 1. Those scenes in Tabula Rasa where the military was hunting down civilians, and rogue Radek was beating up majors with pipes--terrific. Let's see some real conflict between the military and civilian members of the expedition over something.

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 09:07 AM
Those scenes in Quarentine where the military was hunting down civilians, and rogue Radek was beating up majors with pipes--terrific. Let's see some real conflict between the military and civilian members of the expedition over something.

That would have been Tabula Rasa.... :p

Reefgirl
February 15th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Oh, I completely agree. He's such a likeable character and David Nykl does such an awesome job bringing him to life. I just love his Czech murmuring and you can bet on it I will promptly start laughing when he starts off in Czech. He's hilarious, and serious when it calls for it.
He's very good at what he does is David Nykl and he really has bought Radek to life


It'll be interesting to see what happens to Zelenka now. Will TPTB stubbornly pursue the "Zelenka is a creep" line they tried to draw in Trio? Or will they back off and pretend it never happened and complain about fans being all shrill and lemminglike again and imagining things that were never there? :rolleyes:

Or, as has already been suggested, they could just kill him off and wash their hands of the whole thing. Saves them the trouble of having to figure out what to do and acts as an "up yours" to fans at the same time.
But there's always that Big Red Reset button which, when pressed, Keller will find herself trapped with Radek and snog the breath out of him

marielabbott
February 15th, 2008, 09:11 AM
That would have been Tabula Rasa.... :p

Right you are. :o Though if that had happened in Quarentine, it would've made the ep a bit more, you know, exciting. ;)

Chrysalis
February 15th, 2008, 10:38 AM
If you think the fandom imploded with Weir and Carson were killed off you wait until TPTB announce they're killing off Zelenka :eek: I've trapsed around these boards and lurked in some very strange pthreads and I've never found anyone who's had a bad word to say about Zelenka. I've seen posts that go something like "ABC was a total jerk in this ep he deserved everything he got" or "XYZ should never have been bought in in the first place, she can't cope" I've never seen any comments like that about Zelenka anywhere, it's the first time I've seen universal condemnation of the treatment of a character, usually there has been some "HA!! about bloody time too" from someone, but not this time. If TPTB keep up this line with Zelenka it's not going to come back and bite them on the a$$, it's going to chew it up and spit it out

TPTB wouldn't care. JM has said himself, he's not writing what the fans want, he's writing what he wants to see. It's 'his' show, and he's made that abundantly clear.

They make decisions and they stick with them, no matter how unpopular. Weir gone, Keller in, Keller as a regular for crying out loud.

I don't count the Beckett thing, because he wasn't in charge when Paul was sacked. Everything else, though, is down to the current showrunners. They made the wrong decision, IMO, by sacking Torri and bringing in Amanda, and when Amanda left, it took them by surprise. They're now scrambling to cover, panicking, and making even more bad moves.

This show will be lucky not to be cancelled before season five has even aired half its episodes.

Chrysalis
February 15th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Actually, cable shows are given the full current season run and then do not return for the following season when they are cancelled.

I'm not saying they won't screen all of season five. I'm saying that I wouldn't be surprised if during season five they got the 'thanks but no thanks' message about season six.

Nice turnaround on your attitude towards Torri/Weir btw :rolleyes:

Suzotchka
February 15th, 2008, 11:03 AM
I also think that there's been too much influx of SG-1 characters. Sam, Teal'c, Daniel.... at least Sam I could understand. I would've preferred they kept Weir. But putting my issue with that aside, Sam is the next logical choice.

Don't get me wrong, I love the occasional crossover episode. Pegasus Project was great. But I don't want to see SG-1 on SGA regularly. The characters on SGA already need more development. Can't we just stick with them? I feel like SG-1 wasn't cancelled it was SGA. :(

marielabbott
February 15th, 2008, 11:07 AM
I also think that there's been too much influx of SG-1 characters. Sam, Teal'c, Daniel.... at least Sam I could understand. I would've preferred they kept Weir. But putting my issue with that aside, Sam is the next logical choice.

Don't get me wrong, I love the occasional crossover episode. Pegasus Project was great. But I don't want to see SG-1 on SGA regularly. The characters on SGA already need more development. Can't we just stick with them? I feel like SG-1 wasn't cancelled it was SGA. :(

Yes. Exactly. I'm a SGA-only fan, so I don't even really know these charactes that keep coming in. Not that fans of both series may not have problems with it. But I don't know Daniel, so his appearing isn't going to be a big highlight of the season for me. I'd rather have the spotlight on SGA characters, the ones who don't get a lot of screentime, perhaps.

Chrysalis
February 15th, 2008, 11:16 AM
I also think that there's been too much influx of SG-1 characters. Sam, Teal'c, Daniel.... at least Sam I could understand. I would've preferred they kept Weir. But putting my issue with that aside, Sam is the next logical choice.

Don't get me wrong, I love the occasional crossover episode. Pegasus Project was great. But I don't want to see SG-1 on SGA regularly. The characters on SGA already need more development. Can't we just stick with them? I feel like SG-1 wasn't cancelled it was SGA. :(

Absolutely. Atlantis was a spin-off until SG1 was cancelled. Now it's a spin-off in name only.

I mean Teal'c. WTH? Why on earth was this character even considered, apart from the fact that TPTB wanted to do a big "Who's better out of Teal'c and Ronon" ep?

Reefgirl
February 15th, 2008, 11:49 AM
TPTB wouldn't care. JM has said himself, he's not writing what the fans want, he's writing what he wants to see. It's 'his' show, and he's made that abundantly clear.

They make decisions and they stick with them, no matter how unpopular. Weir gone, Keller in, Keller as a regular for crying out loud.

I don't count the Beckett thing, because he wasn't in charge when Paul was sacked. Everything else, though, is down to the current showrunners. They made the wrong decision, IMO, by sacking Torri and bringing in Amanda, and when Amanda left, it took them by surprise. They're now scrambling to cover, panicking, and making even more bad moves.

This show will be lucky not to be cancelled before season five has even aired half its episodes.

Sounds like toys are being thrown out of the pram again

ShadowMaat
February 15th, 2008, 11:49 AM
I get the impression that the conversation in Trio wasn't supposed to be any great plot point that they intend to follow through on, just a random throw-away joke that they thought was funny and probably didn't even realise the implications of...
Yeah, TPTB seem to have a history of making distasteful and offensive jokes without realizing their "implications." :rolleyes:

Dr Weir
February 15th, 2008, 11:58 AM
Absolutely. Atlantis was a spin-off until SG1 was cancelled. Now it's a spin-off in name only.

I mean Teal'c. WTH? Why on earth was this character even considered, apart from the fact that TPTB wanted to do a big "Who's better out of Teal'c and Ronon" ep?
They must have gotten the idea from one of the numerous “who's better” threads here. Lame. Ronan and Teal'c are two completely different and individual characters and can't be compared.

Southern Red
February 15th, 2008, 12:13 PM
They must have gotten the idea from one of the numerous “who's better” threads here. Lame. Ronan and Teal'c are two completely different and individual characters and can't be compared.

JM confirmed on his blog that they got the idea for the Ronon/Teal'c fight from a thread here and thought it would be a great idea. I'm not against the idea per se, but I am not surprised at their thought process. Something like this which appeals to their target demographic is right up their alley. But for the last 3 years there have been numerous thoughtful posts giving suggestions for how to better incorporate Weir into the mix, and many requests that they do what they supposedly went to Atlantis to do, namely explore the city and learn about the Ancients, yet all those were ignored.

They know how much everybody loves Zalenka. Yet they are now treating him as an object of derision because it suits them.

They know we have been begging for more background on Sheppard since day one. Yet they wait 4 years to tell us he has a brother and a dead rich father.

They know a lot of us hate all the buxom babes. Yet it looks like there are more to come.

I said before that they seem to do the exact opposite of what a lot of dedicated fans want. If they are doing what you want (general you), enjoy it. Because I see a few groups of fans being deliriously happy in S5 and the rest of us having to use the supermarket approach to viewing. Some of course are going to shop else where. But they don't care.

Dr Weir
February 15th, 2008, 12:13 PM
Please do not get me started on Felger and that episode. IMO SG-1 and Atlantis should be serious shows.
I absolutely agree. Excellent point! One thing to have the odd joke like in rl but it's not the fast show or mad tv where absolute anything goes for a laugh! And when stargate gets that bad it's not even funny, just disturbing. If I want comedy I’ll show a comedy show. I watch SGA for sci fi.

Let's not forget Orlin as kid hitting on Sam. Oh god that episode was absolutely appealing! I forced myself to watch half, and then deleted it. I felt bad for making myself watch that much....

Integrabyte
February 15th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Send this Porter character shopping and bring Teal'c for S5 :P :P :P :P.

ses110
February 15th, 2008, 12:31 PM
I liked when Jack was funny. I did not enjoy the Felger character or the 100 and 200th joke episodes TPTB made. IMO the 100th and 200th are milestones and deserve the best possible episode. Regarding the Orlin episode I changed the channel beofre the end of the episode. I was not enjoying season 9 at all and that was the last staw. It felt to me like a totally different show.

Ruined_puzzle
February 15th, 2008, 12:32 PM
When I saw the picture of Captain Vega I thought OMG THE POWER RANGERS. Then I started singing the theme song. Go go power rangers. I don't why but she reminded me of one of them, now I will always think of her as the pink ranger.

I hate what they are doing to Zelenka, hate. From what I'm hearing they're turning him into a perv, for what reason excactly?

Dr Weir
February 15th, 2008, 12:32 PM
JM confirmed on his blog that they got the idea for the Ronon/Teal'c fight from a thread here and thought it would be a great idea.
I'm right? :O TPTB must be incredibly desperate for ratings if they’ll sink so low as to pick up on a done to death juvenile idea of pitting two characters against each other on the sole bases they’re both black. And before anyone says they’re both warriors, so are Sheppard, Mitchell, Sam (originally) Teyla etc. What else do Ronon and Teal’c have in common?

I was going to watch this episode but now I've read what's it about, forget it! I never read those threads so why would I want to see it acted out? It reflects very badly on TPTB if they can't think up of their own ideas and have to rely on this kind of crap! They can't do their job anymore then can they?

Anuna
February 15th, 2008, 12:41 PM
.
I said before that they seem to do the exact opposite of what a lot of dedicated fans want. If they are doing what you want (general you), enjoy it. Because I see a few groups of fans being deliriously happy in S5 and the rest of us having to use the supermarket approach to viewing. Some of course are going to shop else where. But they don't care.

Yeah, you go and make a show for yourself, and not for the viewers. That's a great philosophy! What bothers me is to see how stupid science fiction has become thanx to SGA. Fro crying out loud, science fiction is supposed to make you smarter.

Dr Weir
February 15th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Yeah, you go and make a show for yourself, and not for the viewers. That's a great philosophy! What bothers me is to see how stupid science fiction has become thanx to SGA. Fro crying out loud, science fiction is supposed to make you smarter.
Not if it copies ideas below it....

If they're making a show for themsleves, they are wasting a hell of a lot of MGM's and sci if's money....wouldn't this bother the two companies?

Anuna
February 15th, 2008, 01:07 PM
Not if it copies ideas below it....

If they're making a show for themsleves, they are wasting a hell of a lot of MGM's and sci if's money....wouldn't this bother the two companies?

Stupidity makes a good sell. I'm baffled by people who prefer stupid over smart entertainment.

Skydiver
February 15th, 2008, 01:14 PM
guys, let's take it easy ascribing motives to members of the cast. You may know what they've said at cons, but you can't know thier true feelings and motivations, so please keep your comments to your own opinions and leave the actors out of it

ShadowMaat
February 15th, 2008, 01:27 PM
JM confirmed on his blog that they got the idea for the Ronon/Teal'c fight from a thread here and thought it would be a great idea.
*tries to think of a polite, non-insulting way to express her feelings*

Hmmm. I think it speaks volumes that TPTB not only culled this from an internet forum, but that they thought it was a good idea. So much for not getting ideas from the fans, eh? Maybe they only go for the bad ones. And why do they go for the bad ones?? Because they think they're cool. *headdesk* Desperation? Doesn't begin to cover it.


They know how much everybody loves Zelenka. Yet they are now treating him as an object of derision because it suits them.
They're probably treating him with derision because fans like him. And because, as I've said before, Zelenka is intelligent. TPTB can't have an intelligent character without cutting them down one way or another.


They know we have been begging for more background on Sheppard since day one. Yet they wait 4 years to tell us he has a brother and a dead rich father.
In my opinion, I think TPTB despise fandom (except when they can steal bad ideas from them) and go out of their way to be contrary and/or insulting. If it isn't a "frak you" denial of what fans want, it's an in-your-face "in-joke" about fandom itself. Look at some of the "fun" they've poked at us over the years.


They know a lot of us hate all the buxom babes. Yet it looks like there are more to come.
Because THEY like buxom babes and don't give a damn if fans don't like it. If anything, it's an added bonus.

You're right; they do tend to do the opposite of what fans (in a general sense) want... or they make us regret ever wanting whatever it was in the first place.

Shipperahoy
February 15th, 2008, 01:52 PM
I just want to take the time to point out that there is already an anti season 4 thread so please try to keep to discussion of what info has been released for season 5, i.e. casting changes and the plot synopses that have been put out and not about season 4 episodes.

EdenSG
February 15th, 2008, 03:08 PM
I have some misgivings over what direction Teyla’s baby storyline might take in season 5.

Some of the proposals that I have seen include:
- baby grows up real fast
- baby is kidnapped or disappears
- baby dies
- normal baby grows up on Atlantis with Teyla
- dad takes normal baby to grow up on the new Athosian planet

I am not real comfortable with any of these storylines and I am not sure what the writers could come up with that could make this work. I worry that it might be too cliché or too much like a soap opera. Oh well, I guess I will have to wait and see.

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 03:11 PM
I just said in the Teyla Appreciation Thread that the wee lad can be a normal baby on Atlantis, which doesn't necessarily mean he has to have 40 minutes of screentime. TPTB have proven they can write like that. Look at Teyla, she's living proof of that.

EdenSG
February 15th, 2008, 03:20 PM
I just said in the Teyla Appreciation Thread that the wee lad can be a normal baby on Atlantis, which doesn't necessarily mean he has to have 40 minutes of screentime.

True, that could be a viable option, but then I think about babysitters, is she nursing, baby gets sick - wait, that's the problem, I guess I am thinking more like a concerned mother than a concerned fan! :)

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 03:36 PM
True, that could be a viable option, but then I think about babysitters, is she nursing, baby gets sick - wait, that's the problem, I guess I am thinking more like a concerned mother than a concerned fan! :)

All that happens off-screen.... That's the beauty of off-screen writing. :)

SMB_BOOKS
February 15th, 2008, 04:00 PM
I just saw this on JM's blog.....for all of us who have concerns and misgivings about Woolsey leading the expedition in Season 5.....



AJM writes: “How many episodes will Robert Picardo be in next season, in every single one or on a format like Amanda Tappings run in season 4?”

Answer: He’ll be appearing in 14 of 20.


I'm confused. I thought the expedition leader was a supporting role. Isn't that what JM said in response to some of the concerns Weir fans were sharing on his blog?

OH wait, lemme guess....Woolsey will only show up in 15 seconds of each of the 14 episodes he's in. That must be it. ;)

justhere1971
February 15th, 2008, 04:04 PM
I just saw this on JM's blog.....for all of us who have concerns and misgivings about Woolsey leading the expedition in Season 5.....


I'm confused. I thought the expedition leader was a supporting role. Isn't that what JM said in response to some of the concerns Weir fans were sharing on his blog?

OH wait, lemme guess....Woolsey will only show up in 15 seconds of each of the 14 episodes he's in. That must be it. ;)

This is exactly why I've stopped going over there. Just this sort of back & forth on reasoning. No consistency that I can see.

Suzotchka
February 15th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Does anyone know how many episodes AT will be in?

Jumper_One
February 15th, 2008, 04:23 PM
At least 1. :p

from JM's blog

Samantha Carter will appear in several episodes.

Given Amanda’s upcoming commitment, it’s impossible to offer an exact number of episodes. As I said, it really has everything to do with a) her schedule and b) the types of stories we come up with. However, I can say that, at present, we do have her locked in for two.

Skydiver
February 15th, 2008, 04:26 PM
my gut is, if she's in more, it'll be in the second half, after sanctuary has finished taping

personally? i'll be surprised if she gets another one. i think the show will just roll on without her

Chrysalis
February 15th, 2008, 04:29 PM
my gut is, if she's in more, it'll be in the second half, after sanctuary has finished taping

personally? i'll be surprised if she gets another one. i think the show will just roll on without her

You're probably right, but I'm sure TPTB will string her fans along, letting them believe she'll be in more and have a decent role, just as they did with Torri. Playing mind games with fans seems to be what they do best.

Skydiver
February 15th, 2008, 04:38 PM
let's just say, i keep my expectations low :)

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 04:40 PM
14 out of 20... Seems to be the standard as regular. So, I take it then that Teyla wasn't a regular in season 4? :S

Skydiver
February 15th, 2008, 04:47 PM
teyla's actress was pregnant

it's a different situation.

the writers would do what rachel needed done

mcbarr
February 15th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Overall, it seems s5 won't be much different from crappy s4. TPTB still believe s4 was the best EVAH, eh? :D

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2008, 04:57 PM
teyla's actress was pregnant
it's a different situation.
the writers would do what rachel needed done

Of course, and you know the answer to that (by now, I reckon) -> What was the excuse the previous seasons?

:cool: