Season Five : Complaints and Misgivings

[justhere1971]

and the sad part, male bonding and female bonding aint' all that different.

but, imho, the writers get so caught up in 'we're writing for girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!' taht they seem to forget to just write for the CHARACTERS and let the actors bring gender into it

the only girl bonding they probably want to do is something better suited for showtime after hours

Would this not fit with the direction it's going though? Frat boys sitting around the teevee drinking beer, discussing golf ... etc.?

I think I sneezed. Actually I got very angry at the end of Doppelganger when they all gathered around the table like family. I don't remember Carson and Elizabeth ever being in a similar scene even though John's list of family members did include them. And I have a sneaky suspicion that those new comfy chairs in Elizabeth's Carter's Woolsey's office are meant to show how cozy everybody feels sitting around in there sharing feelings and braiding each other's hair. But at least John's not sitting on her desk.


Thanks. I don't know about eloquent, but frustration brings out my long winded side. Now how do we get TPTB to listen?

I am sure that was the misguided notion. Think back to any of the offices of the commanders we've seen so far. Other than Carter who's had those nice deep seats? Wonder what the requisition form said "team building chairs needed"? And Shep crossing his legs when he sits in those chairs for some reason completely turns me off.

As for the sitting around table as a family. Yeah right. Strangers don't make family. It takes time to build that, unless of course you're born into it.

The show should be renamed BlinkGate.

But yeah, another thing I've noticed is the lack of chemistry (bonding/friendship, not shippy) in s4 compared to the last. Sure there are good moments between Shep and McKay and a great scene between Ronon and Teyla. But I haven't seen much else. Certainly not with the new characters - I haven't seen Keller really bond with anyone and Carter is so wallpapered now that even the McKay/Sam snarkfest/chemistry is absent. So when TPTB threw them all together at that table my "blatant ploy" meter went off. And sure enough, after that ep most interactions went back to their bland, lack of chemistry state.

I dunno, after comparing actor performances in the first season compared to s4 it looks like a lot of the "oomph" went away. It feels like people just reciting their lines because they aren't given more to work with. And I fear that the blandness will continue into next season.

Everyone is going through the motions. I won't be too harsh, I will say there were some moments that worked. But the amount of angst I've seen Shep display this season, I want to send him boxes of tissues. Poor guy. [/sarcasm]

Yeah, I thought about that scene later after watching Trio. I just can't believe they think it's okay to treat Zelenka that way. Yet there has been tons of talk about how they are emphasizing team bonding and character dev in S4. Some of it has just been contradictory and bizarre. I'm thinking about the fact that Shep has suddenly taken an interest in Teyla's life after ignoring her for 3 years, but I guess that's just my ship preference run amok. Yet believable things like the close bond between Teyla and Ronon get pushed aside. I'm afraid S5 is going to give us more of the same. They keep telling us they're a family, yet show us very little. Does this mean Woolsey will be the daddy, now? *pictures Teyla's baby rubbing his bald head and beeping his nose*

So, what games will they play in S5? I see John/Rodney truth or dare in the future. There's not enough alcohol in the metro area to get me through that one.

To treat such a beloved secondary character this way, just makes me wonder what they really think about the characters they create. There's no compassion or care at all. As for Shep & Teyla, please. When I was pg, when my baby moved, I shared that moment with many of my co-workers. In their case, why wouldn't she share it with her team mate? He's the only person in the room at the moment. If it was Ronon, it would've been him. I mean the girl's whole tribe has gone missing, she finds out the father of her baby is gone too. She shares life & death situations with her team, of course she will share a joyous moment with them as well.

Actually, I can see Keller getting everyone together for a nice game of Spin the Bottle. That would provide nice bonding moments, right?

Goodness! AACCK! High-school Musical - Atlantis style.

Why would Michael want to keep Carson alive all this time anyway? For companionship?

It's Carson. Who can kill him off? Oh wait, PTB did ... and then changed their mind.

[Chrysalis]

I just watched No Man's Land last night. Didn't go out of my way to watch it. It just happened to be on tv at 11pm. How they could look at Elizabeth/Torri in that episode and think she needed to go is beyond me. She was the strongest thing in it, IMO.

M&M's names as executive producers in the credits came as about the most disappointing thing in the whole ep.

I love that Paul's back, for the Beckett fans, but I wish he and Torri had BOTH said no to them.

[Falcon Horus]

Ooh, Ford, Carson, and Weir on a boat fishing while the Titanic sinks in the background. Maybe toss in Grodin and Kate too? Manip!

It seems I have to get those stick-figures out again.

[mcbarr]

It seems I have to get those stick-figures out again.

Stick them here:

Spoiler:

[Reiko]

You know what it boils down to IMHO. Most of us seem to be women and we think seeing Teyla with a family would be very interesting. We'd love to see how she works motherhood into her team duties, how her culture does family relationships,etc.

I'm with you there, Southern Red. SGA has a large female audience and despite all the hints TPTB still thinks they're writing to geeky college-aged boys living in their mother's basement watching reruns of Star Trek, or men that share, the (lets say) sentiments and passions that they do. I think SGA will lose about half it's audience over te treatment of Teyla and Liz. Even Carson, too. (Admittedly he's my dream guy ) Look at the unhappy groups - Save Elizabeth, Save Carson, Anti's - they're nearly all female.

Maybe it's because men tend not to be very proactive. Or men are satisfied easier. Or men don't know what good stories are. Really, I don't care - I could think all day and wouldn't figure them out.

Plus I see zero friendship between Teyla and Keller, even after all the babysitting in Missing.

Same here. I hate it when people are all "oh they're best friends now!!!" In fact Teyla secretly hates Keller IMO. Teyla likes Carson better. Teyla secretly blames Keller for killing Kate. Keller gets on Teyla's nerves and I can see it it the subtext. Really! Maybe sometime I'll get around to finishing my annontated script of Missing, complete with pictures

I got very angry at the end of Doppelganger when they all gathered around the table like family. I don't remember Carson and Elizabeth ever being in a similar scene even though John's list of family members did include them.

Pisses me off immensely too Seeing Carter and especially Keller sitting down with them was revolting. Another sign of the new family being forced down our throats shoved up our asses by TPTB and them just expecting us just to go along with it. Thing is to be part of the family Carson and Elizabeth never even needed to sit at the table. TPTB is getting really desperate.

I'm also with what Anuna said - Elizabeth and Carson are also team members and perhaps some of the most important parts. Radek to me is a main character. All seven main character hold their own special part. And lately two of those parts have been missing and that leaves the rest in seriosu inbalance.

As for the sitting around table as a family. Yeah right. Strangers don't make family. It takes time to build that, unless of course you're born into it.

That also really pisses me off. For some reason I though Shep, Rodney, ROnon and Teyla would become more ... closed off. But apparently Liz and Carson are exchangable with Carter and Keller. Do a simple switch. Then - look! We've a big happy family again!

As for Shep & Teyla, please. When I was pg, when my baby moved, I shared that moment with many of my co-workers. In their case, why wouldn't she share it with her team mate? <...> She shares life & death situations with her team, of course she will share a joyous moment with them as well.

I agree with you here - I saw it just as a team-mate moment for what it is. For some reason however I don't think that was what TPTB was trying to imply

[marielabbott]

I am sure that was the misguided notion. Think back to any of the offices of the commanders we've seen so far. Other than Carter who's had those nice deep seats? Wonder what the requisition form said "team building chairs needed"? And Shep crossing his legs when he sits in those chairs for some reason completely turns me off.

A few weeks ago I happened to check out a book from my library about body language. This is part of what it says about crossed legs: "...the way a person uses their legs and feet reveals where they want to go. In other words, they show a person's commitment to leaving or staying in a conversation. Open or uncrossed leg positions show an open or dominant attitude, while crossed positions reveal closed attitudes or uncertainty." (The Definitive Book of Body Language, p. 211)

Maybe we could speculate from this Sheppard's real feelings toward Carter and sitting in her comfortable chairs. The book talks about how we subconciously pick up these kind of signals, so maybe that's why seeing those scenes turned you off.

As for the sitting around table as a family. Yeah right. Strangers don't make family. It takes time to build that, unless of course you're born into it.

Exactly.

I'm with you there, Southern Red. SGA has a large female audience and despite all the hints TPTB still thinks they're writing to geeky college-aged boys living in their mother's basement watching reruns of Star Trek, or men that share, the (lets say) sentiments and passions that they do. I think SGA will lose about half it's audience over te treatment of Teyla and Liz. Even Carson, too. (Admittedly he's my dream guy ) Look at the unhappy groups - Save Elizabeth, Save Carson, Anti's - they're nearly all female.

Maybe it's because men tend not to be very proactive. Or men are satisfied easier. Or men don't know what good stories are. Really, I don't care - I could think all day and wouldn't figure them out.

No, we wouldn't figure them out. Nor they us. I know, Reiko that you meant no disrespect to the men among us, but I just wanted to give a shout out to them for, you know, saying they too want *gasp* good stories and characters, and not urging Carter to flash children, along with McKay. After some of the frat house humor the male PTB have shoved down our throats, it's nice to know that some of the male fans also find it insulting to their intelligence. Kinda restores my faith in their nobility.

[ShadowMaat]

Oh, I wouldn't discount all men as being primarily driven by sex and violence. All jokes aside, guys are just as likely to want a good story and solid characterization as girls and they shouldn't be discounted just because of sterotypes. Might as well say that all girls (or most of them) want some emotionally driven love story with a happy ending. Bleah.

As for understanding them, well, I dunno about you, but if I started to understand TPTB I'd be worried about myself.

[Skydiver]

lol

sometimes i think i understand them too much...cause i can usually peg what they're gonna do from episode to episode.

And you're right, not all males hunger for boobs, butts and bombs

but that seems to be the priority when people are making stuff. maybe because it's so easy to hammer out

[ShadowMaat]

I think the boobs, butts, and bombs thing is a priority because it's a stereotype and because while folks might like other things as well they still like the three B's, which reinforces the stereotype and generates more of the same old ****. It may not be true of everybody, of course, but it's true for enough to keep the cycle going. And hey, it's called the lowest common denominator for a reason. *shrug*

[Reiko]

How they could look at Elizabeth/Torri in that episode and think she needed to go is beyond me. She was the strongest thing in it, IMO.

I love that Paul's back, for the Beckett fans, but I wish he and Torri had BOTH said no to them.

I believe the first and foremost reason they let Torri go is to make room for Amanda now that SG1 was cancelled. They wanted to string her fans along to Atlantis. It's pure speculation, I know, but it's what I think. I don't care really about the excuses they made to "new interesting directrion" and such.

I love that Paul's back too, of course He has been incredibly gracious towards the fans in coming back for episodes despite what tptb put the poor guy through. Honestly I don't know if him saying no would have gotten the message across further. It's pretty obvious that tptb would rather have Keller. JM's defense of Keller is almost hilarious at this point...

Maybe we could speculate from this Sheppard's real feelings toward Carter and sitting in her comfortable chairs. The book talks about how we subconciously pick up these kind of signals, so maybe that's why seeing those scenes turned you off.

Love the citation I'm gonna have to pick up a body language book. Not to be projecting onto the actor or anything, but Joe F was one of the actors that most prominantly voiced his dislike towards the producer's decision to get rid of Paul and Torri.

After some of the frat house humor the male PTB have shoved down our throats, it's nice to know that some of the male fans also find it insulting to their intelligence.

I was talking to some fellow guys at school (and yes, these are teenage boys) and they thought it was rather immature at what tptb were writing. Most of my friends (ones that don't even watch SGA) are appalled at the whole, lets say 'situation' going on

I think the boobs, butts, and bombs thing is a priority because it's a stereotype and because while folks might like other things as well they still like the three B's

Stereotype is a big point you have there. With the whole 'common demographic' I think tptb might unintentionally be aiming for it perhaps, or we're blaming the three B's on the horny key demo Just something to consider.

[Integrabyte]

not all males hunger for boobs, butts and bombs[/B]

but that seems to be the priority when people are making stuff. maybe because it's so easy to hammer out

It does not take a lot of brains to portray something like that.

[Reefgirl]

I'm with you there, Southern Red. SGA has a large female audience and despite all the hints TPTB still thinks they're writing to geeky college-aged boys living in their mother's basement watching reruns of Star Trek, or men that share, the (lets say) sentiments and passions that they do. I think SGA will lose about half it's audience over te treatment of Teyla and Liz. Even Carson, too. (Admittedly he's my dream guy ) Look at the unhappy groups - Save Elizabeth, Save Carson, Anti's - they're nearly all female.

{Spoilered for length}

Spoiler:

Maybe it's because men tend not to be very proactive. Or men are satisfied easier. Or men don't know what good stories are. Really, I don't care - I could think all day and wouldn't figure them out.



Same here. I hate it when people are all "oh they're best friends now!!!" In fact Teyla secretly hates Keller IMO. Teyla likes Carson better. Teyla secretly blames Keller for killing Kate. Keller gets on Teyla's nerves and I can see it it the subtext. Really! Maybe sometime I'll get around to finishing my annontated script of Missing, complete with pictures



Pisses me off immensely too Seeing Carter and especially Keller sitting down with them was revolting. Another sign of the new family being forced down our throats shoved up our asses by TPTB and them just expecting us just to go along with it. Thing is to be part of the family Carson and Elizabeth never even needed to sit at the table. TPTB is getting really desperate.

I'm also with what Anuna said - Elizabeth and Carson are also team members and perhaps some of the most important parts. Radek to me is a main character. All seven main character hold their own special part. And lately two of those parts have been missing and that leaves the rest in seriosu inbalance.



That also really pisses me off. For some reason I though Shep, Rodney, ROnon and Teyla would become more ... closed off. But apparently Liz and Carson are exchangable with Carter and Keller. Do a simple switch. Then - look! We've a big happy family again!

I agree with you here - I saw it just as a team-mate moment for what it is. For some reason however I don't think that was what TPTB was trying to imply

I can't green you so have an unofficial one

I'm really sick of the Frat humour, why can't the network see people are unhappy with the show, having a bit of a look around reciently and the number of 'disatisfied' threads is slowly creeping up, surely they can't keep blaming the 'Shrill and Hysterical Lemmings' for 'seeing problems that aren't there', surely someone from the network should take them aside and say "Look, there are serious problems out there in fandom and you're not making it any better, if the ratings slip anymore we're going to have to rethink season 5" TPTB need a serious kick up the arse the insults to intelligence and the insults by JM aren't funny anymore

[Integrabyte]

I can't green you so have an unofficial one

I'm really sick of the Frat humour, why can't the network see people are unhappy with the show, having a bit of a look around reciently and the number of 'disatisfied' threads is slowly creeping up, surely they can't keep blaming the 'Shrill and Hysterical Lemmings' for 'seeing problems that aren't there', surely someone from the network should take them aside and say "Look, there are serious problems out there in fandom and you're not making it any better, if the ratings slip anymore we're going to have to rethink season 5" TPTB need a serious kick up the arse the insults to intelligence and the insults by JM aren't funny anymore

Solutions will be drafted when ratings decrease dramatically. SGA is like any other show: 90% profit, 10% fans .

[dana]

Solutions will be drafted when ratings decrease dramatically. SGA is like any other show: 90% profit, 10% fans .

No way! Last time it was 98%.

[Reefgirl]

Solutions will be drafted when ratings decrease dramatically. SGA is like any other show: 90% profit, 10% fans .

Ain't that the truth