The Kosh question.

[P-90_177]

Ah Kosh, A mystery Wrapped in an Enigma within an Encounter suit. I always enjoyed his character. It was a shame they had to get rid of him but there is a question I want to ask.

As clearly indicated by season 4, the Vorlons had very little regard for the life of lower life forms. Afterall they began wipeing out entire populated worlds. Even the other Kosh seemed much more agressive and un-caring. However my question is this. How do you think the Original Kosh felt about humans and all the other races. He certainly took a special interest in Sheridan and he seemed much warmer (if that's possible for a vorlon) So was he aware of the fact that his race were prepared to destroy everything to stop the shadows? Would he have agreed to that himself?

[Jeffala]

Kosh Naranek was one of the oldest Vorlons. I believe that he held a very favorable view of the younger races, like an uncle with their favorite nephews and nieces. I also think he was a stabilizing force within the Vorlon command structure who worked to keep their more aggressive members in check.

When he was killed, not only were the Vorlons outraged, but they also no longer had his influence to keep them in check and the more radical members like Kosh Ulkesh were allowed to put more extreme plans into action.

The Vorlons destroyed any lower races who were influenced by the Shadows. They were seen as tainted, as the good tissue on the edge of the cancer that had to be cut away as well.

[gopher65]

Jeffala, is that from Books, Fan Fiction, or is it actual canon? People post things sometimes, and I'm never sure where they get them from

[Jeffala]

I think that Kosh Naranek's age is canon.

The behavior of the Vorlon against the Shadow supporters is just analysis of their actions. For instance, after the destruction of the Shadow forces on Centauri Prime and the execution of Morden, the Vorlon were going to destroy the planet simply because Londo was still alive. They would kill 3 billion to eliminate Londo.

The Vorlon reaction to Kosh's death is supposition. Everything else is just my opinion.

[P-90_177]

I think that Kosh Naranek's age is canon.

The behavior of the Vorlon against the Shadow supporters is just analysis of their actions. For instance, after the destruction of the Shadow forces on Centauri Prime and the execution of Morden, the Vorlon were going to destroy the planet simply because Londo was still alive. They would kill 3 billion to eliminate Londo.

The Vorlon reaction to Kosh's death is supposition. Everything else is just my opinion.

that's some damned detailed theory. sounds very plausible.

[maneth]

I had the same theory myself. Kosh Naranek certainly seemed a lot more flexible than the other.

I wonder how canon Naranek and Ulkesh are, I can't remember ever hearing Vorlons referred to as anything except Kosh.

[Jeffala]

I wonder how canon Naranek and Ulkesh are, I can't remember ever hearing Vorlons referred to as anything except Kosh.

I think that JMS said that they're not names, but rather titles. I just find it easier to use Naranek and Ulklesh than "brown-ish Kosh" and "purple Kosh".

And actually from looking a bit deeper, the second "Kosh" wasn't really named Kosh. His designation was Ulkesh Naranek.

Go to linky and search for "title/designation".

[Xicer]

I remember Kosh being reffered to as "Kosh Naranek" once or twice in the show, though I might just have dreamt that. But I do remember JMS saying that Naranek was more of a title, not a name.

[Anubis69]

I remember Kosh being reffered to as "Kosh Naranek" once or twice in the show, though I might just have dreamt that. But I do remember JMS saying that Naranek was more of a title, not a name.

As do I... Wasn't it an ISN broadcast or something?

The techno-mage trilogy dealt with Kosh a bit, he seemed to genuinely care for the younger races and would give them the benefit of the doubt. Even the technomages, who were effectively

Spoiler:

the Shadows equivalent of telepath and weapons to be used in the war,

were given a chance to do the "good" thing by Kosh at least twice. I also remember reading that Ulkesh was a more military commander type of Vorlon wheras (classic) Kosh was more ambassadorial in the way he had more... tact.

[Ice Wolf]

I see it as the first Kosh was one of the Vorlons that still held dear to the original intent of the Vorlons, to guide and look after the younger races. Whereas the second Kosh was consumed by the Ideological battle between the Vorlons and Shadows (Order vs Chaos) and saw things in Black and White, You were either with the Vorlons totally or you were with the Shadows and were to be destroyed, 'he' couldnt see the gray areas and was a fanatic to the cause of Order.

[gopher65]

The techno-mage trilogy dealt with Kosh a bit, he seemed to genuinely care for the younger races and would give them the benefit of the doubt. Even the technomages, who were effectively

Spoiler:

the Shadows equivalent of telepath and weapons to be used in the war,

were given a chance to do the "good" thing by Kosh at least twice. I also remember reading that Ulkesh was a more military commander type of Vorlon wheras (classic) Kosh was more ambassadorial in the way he had more... tact.

Whoawhoa. Where are you getting that from? Books? Cause I don't remember anything about

Spoiler:

technomages being the Shadows equivalent of telepath and weapons to be used in the war,

being in the show. Although I didn't actually watch all of Crusade.

[Anubis69]

Whoawhoa. Where are you getting that from? Books? Cause I don't remember anything about

Spoiler:

technomages being the Shadows equivalent of telepath and weapons to be used in the war,

being in the show. Although I didn't actually watch all of Crusade.

Yeah, books. It was probably supposed to be a major revelation regarding Galen in Crusade as it progressed but i've no idea.

But (major, book ruining, spoilers for the technomage trilogy btw)

Spoiler:

IIRC, they were supposed to be used in Valen's shadow war (not too sure about that tbh) and the implants the technomages utilise were created by the Shadows. The technomages couldn't even reverse-engineer the technology once they'd broken away from the Shadows and as a result periodically a member of the circle "picked up" the implants directly from the shadows.

I can't remember a lot of the hows and whys but that's the jist of it. It's probably on Wiki somewhere.

[jds1982]

Ah Kosh, A mystery Wrapped in an Enigma within an Encounter suit. I always enjoyed his character. It was a shame they had to get rid of him but there is a question I want to ask.

As clearly indicated by season 4, the Vorlons had very little regard for the life of lower life forms. Afterall they began wipeing out entire populated worlds. Even the other Kosh seemed much more agressive and un-caring. However my question is this. How do you think the Original Kosh felt about humans and all the other races. He certainly took a special interest in Sheridan and he seemed much warmer (if that's possible for a vorlon) So was he aware of the fact that his race were prepared to destroy everything to stop the shadows? Would he have agreed to that himself?

Yes.

[jds1982]

Seriously though, yes I believe Kosh knew what lengths his people would go to, just as he knew what the Shadows would do when the Vorlons entered the war. By ordering the Vorlon attacks, Kosh not only effectively committed suicide, he sent the Vorlons on their homicidal course of vengeance. However, it was the only course of action that could lead to any kind of resolution to the Shadow wars.

[Night Marshal]

I remember Kosh being reffered to as "Kosh Naranek" once or twice in the show, though I might just have dreamt that. But I do remember JMS saying that Naranek was more of a title, not a name.

In the 36 hours episode of Babylon 5 from season 2 the Vorlon is call Kosh Naranek by the reporter. can't think of any other times off the top of my head