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Falcon Horus
February 24th, 2008, 09:26 AM
Finally after much patience and mental preparation I watched The Kindred I... Here be my view:

The good:
* Michael's new look - I think I can positively say he's my favorite villain after Kolya
* Rodney giving his pre-baby present to Teyla - cute
* Rachel did good with what she was given
* the team walking in the field - I sincerely missed that

The bad:
* Teyla's Z-plot

* continuity:
a) oh btw, the Hoffans were destroyed by the Wraith
b) The Kindred continues the Missing story, 11 episodes too late
c) suddenly there's a disease we haven't heard about till now, even though they've been tracking it for a couple of months now

* connecting jewelry to people we've never heard or seen before, it's an empty element
* the forced "Call me Sam"-moment, oh please... give me a break
* the costume department needs to rethink their ways of dressing the characters, they don't look particularly flattering in all that leather, and Teyla doesn't look flattering at all... Rachel looks sexy as hell, even pregnant she is a beauty, but they could have gone with better maternity clothes than some of what is shown.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to add something to the bad here:
"Oh goddess, it's the Orici all over again!"

Overall, I'm glad I didn't anticipate too much, cause it fell flat... F-L-A-T, flat! Not even Carson's appearance phased me. I was bored. And I was thinking... Oh boy, how I'm looking forward to season 5. [insert serious sarcasm]

Oh, and as an afterthought... Heightmeyer wouldn't have misstood in this episode. I can easily write her in and make the plot better than the thin little attempt that was on screen.

Egle01
February 24th, 2008, 09:30 AM
She was not there in Season 4 either, so it's really not much of a loss
Care to explain?

Sparrow_hawk
February 24th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Some nice visuals of the landed Wraith ship on the desert world, much less futzy than usual. And Carson's return still seems very odd to me. Sure I was annoyed when they killed him off, but bringing him back is like flogging a dead horse. A Shetland pony to be precise. I love the visuals of the hive ship. I was especially impressed by the way they have given it a moth-like (or chameleon-like) ability to blend with its surroundings for camoflage.

I think Carson is back to explain how Michael go the information he needed to formulate his attack. But mostly I think he is back because the fans, writers and producers like the character (and the actor who plays him). I'm not sure how it will work in this story-line, but at the moment IMO it seems to be a little contrived.

sweetsamurai
February 24th, 2008, 11:33 AM
My little Beckett is back! I've watched the ending now five times, haha!

He looks so cute in his weird ancient outfit. Loved the look Mckay has when he see's him. I would have had him drop his gun in shock! ANd then accidently shoot him or something, lol.

Can't wait for the second part!!! Hope the week goes swiftly!

I did say long time ago that I hope they don't make Teyla's baby into 'it's the future of the evil guys' as they do in every scifi - ugh - but oh well...

:)

Mitchell82
February 24th, 2008, 01:07 PM
Have to say this was the worst edited episode I have had the misfortune of watching, well besides The Tower which had one or two really bad cuts. You could see the bad editing a mile off, was the guy or gal in the booth suffering a hangover that day? :rolleyes::P

I didn't notice. This ep was really well done.

Mitchell82
February 24th, 2008, 01:12 PM
can you blame him? this ep was awesome! CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D
Of course not! This ep made me go Whacko too!


don't worry dude this ep was amazing, I'm sure enough people were watching especially because of the Carson spoiler. I'm pretty confident that it got at least a 1.3 :)
Agreed. How can an ep this sweet get bad ratings?

cabouse18
February 24th, 2008, 01:44 PM
Of course not! This ep made me go Whacko too!


Agreed. How can an ep this sweet get bad ratings?

Yeah, even if people didn't like the other stuff that was going on....they had to have tuned to just to see Carson!! :D

jelgate
February 24th, 2008, 01:44 PM
Yeah, even if people didn't like the other stuff that was going on....they had to have tuned to just to see Carson!! :D

All 30 seconds of him:P

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 01:52 PM
Ok. The review. In point form. Mostly.

The Carson Return pt 1

The Good:

>Continuity.
Picking up the Hoff [not David] drug thread was an interesting choice that works well for Michael and his aims. Teyla's Wraith sense and Michael using and further perfecting the Wraith telepathic link for his own ends.

>Characterization and schemes of the villains.
Todd is a joy to watch and the writers seem to have found quite the voice for him, part evil scientist, part comedian. Michael is a surprise here. I passed him off as not worthy of being a true threat with his bugs, but here he's pulling all of the heart strings of the Atlantis team: manipulating Teyla's baby and Carson. The sheer evil of taunting Teyla with bits of info on each visit, then bringing her Wraithized lover and baby father to see her while taunting about the bond they have and how it'll grow stronger through the baby... Brilliant. His plan itself sticks it to both Wraith and humans by killing some of them as a prelude to transforming the rest into something not quite human or Wraith, like himself. Glorious self-hatred literally projected onto those you hate. I love it. Todd's aims are entirely self-serving, even to the apparent detriment of other Wraith while Michael's are also entirely self-serving, both to the detriment of humans and Wraith alike. If they're secretly working together while trying to outsmart each other, I'd applaud. I miss Nikita alliances like that.

>Little touches.
Rodney sanitizing his hands despite the hazmat suit. Rodney having almost 'Shep hair' during the Todd scenes. :sheppard::mckay:The look on Lorne's face after 'losing' Teyla. Todd's Wraith complex and his use of the subspace tracker. Did Michael's base look a bit... Genii to anyone else? The smack in the face Michael's cruiser gave Earth by evading Asgard weapons.:thoranime01: The Wraith Worshippers! [More of them! More!] Keeping Rodney away from food, using it as a metaphor for the Wraith's hunger, then showing him gorging himself shamelessly. Rodney's baby gift.:mckay: [Come on, Mr. Genius, how's she supposed to fit those headphones on her large and rotund stomach? :P] Michael appearing in Teyla's dreams as her lover. [Freudian if you look past the obvious tactical advantage.] Teyla's hot leather maternity dress. And, my fave, Teyla poking the bad man with a stick.:D

[B]The Bad:

>Forced continuity. Dr. Firefly would be SO much more appealing now if we'd seen her go through hell trying to save entire populations across a dozen worlds from a deadly plague for at least one episode. Instead, we get an "As you know" introduction to a completely new concept that should have been a concern of her's in Trio, what with being stuck in a hole and unable to continue her research, treat the sick, or even general annoyance at having Carter make her go talk to some idiot miners when she has better things to do. Tptb, as we say in theatre: Show. Don't Tell. Plague, you say? Show. Don't tell. Help make the doc you edged in more interesting, ja?

The same applies to Kanaan, but that was raised in earlier in the season already. Him being another Wraith gene carrier, however, just makes it even worse. You'd swear Beckett would want to be studying as many of them as possible... Or was he?;)

The Ugly:

>Carson.
Nice outfit; being held hostage by Asian Wraith Worshippers? :P
His return is something I'm ambivalent about. I would have preferred he never died or that clues to his still being alive been dropped after 'Sunday'. I'm worried about how he's going to be handled and will give it time before I judge anything.
My real concern is whether it's the 'real' Carson or not. I hope this is the duplicate and the 'real' Carson died in that stupid explosion. I enjoy the classic sci-fi questioning of personhood. Does having someone's DNA and their memories make you them? Does your origin in a gene tank or an Asuran nanite table make you any less human or any less of who you appear to be? I'd love those issues to raised with this Carson. He has no counterpart now, so he's unique. React to that, people.
Also, we can't be sure where his loyalties lie. Remember Ronon's former friends? Remember any of the dozens of means of mind control we've seen across the two shows? The IOA/SGA have to have a seriously hard time with him coming back in whatever form; well, I hope they do. To be honest, I don't want the old Carson back. I'm not saying make him the new leader of the Asurans/Wraith Worshippers/Genii/Gadmeer, but do something interesting and different with his character apart from the jolly ol' doc. Wait... They did something 'interesting and different' with Weir and Ford...

:beckett:[I]RUN, CARSON! RUN!:beckett:

Final Thoughts:
>An enjoyable episode. The Carson Return pt 1 was unavoidably spoiled but the characterization, sensible building on established, sensible plotlines and little touches throughout made it worth it. More like it. Plus more Asgardalus pwnage!:thoranime01:

Score:
>8/10

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Agreed. How can an ep this sweet get bad ratings?
How can a sweet show like Farscape get cancelled?

The non-fandom audience is a cowardly, superstitious lot.

Briangate78
February 24th, 2008, 02:30 PM
The only bad about this episode was that the first half moved kinda slow. As per the spoiler at the end, that was not the producer's/Writer's fault. So yeah just the first half was the only downsize of the episode, and even that was entertaining to me. I figured this being a part 1 or a part 2 episode was going to make this episode a buildup episode. Boy, did it build up.

So I think the word "Suckfest" should not be applied to this episode, IMHO. Maybe a Carsonfest, I also like the idea of "Teylafest". :p But not a suckfest, actually more the opposite.

Oh and I loved Teyla's outfit, she is a beautiful woman and she was amazing in her delivery of her character. Excellent!

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 03:22 PM
Oh and I loved Teyla's outfit, she is a beautiful woman and she was amazing in her delivery of her character. Excellent!
And amazing in the delivery of her baby, we hope. :D:teyla:
This is the type of maternity fashion she'd lacked for most of the season. Most likely, the flimsy and ugly maternity dresses were just for Atlantis and her hot Athosian leather mom outfits were for the offworld missions. That and, if she found her people, how would she explain wearing those atrocities to them?

"Rodney... gave it to me...":mckay:

Klenotka
February 24th, 2008, 03:28 PM
So I watched it again because I had to catch some of the rushed plots and sudden revealations...and I have to say that this was one of Rachel´s worst performances ever :mckay: My opinion, of course. It´s more about like/dislike and I really don´t like Rachel´s style of acting. It´s nothing against the actress, I just don´t like her style.

Willow'sCat
February 24th, 2008, 03:39 PM
So I watched it again because I had to catch some of the rushed plots and sudden revealations...and I have to say that this was one of Rachel´s worst performances ever :mckay: My opinion, of course. It´s more about like/dislike and I really don´t like Rachel´s style of acting. It´s nothing against the actress, I just don´t like her style.I think the problem is more to do with Teyla then Rachel, well from my point of view anyway.;)

I feel they have given Ronon more of a personality (as alien) but left Teyla in the stereotyped, almost Teal'c kind of alien speech patten and seriously it just takes away from her character on screen.

No, I do not want her dropping American sayings into her dialogue but for me the clipped way the character speaks is distracting... I hate it in fanfics and I hate it on the show... let the gal loosen up a bit already, she can still be Teyla alien warrior but give her a dam personally STAT! We never really see her laughing (sure she has loads of burdens at the moment but still...) and she never really teases anyone, maybe that is her people's way :rolleyes: but you know it makes for a boring character.

Rachel has a great laugh use it! ;):)

Of course if she actually got more screen time with relevant dialogue in season's 1-3 we wouldn't have this problem. :rolleyes:

Yeah, maybe I just don't think tptb can write women characters... although Jeannie is a blast! :P

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Interesting beards up there, Willow.

They write Jeannie well because she's meant to be the Anti-Rodney, his equal yet opposite, and push all his buttons. Because they write him so well, they can write someone to really bring down his ego and make him less... Godney well, too.

Willow'sCat
February 24th, 2008, 04:24 PM
Interesting beards up there, Willow.Could you put that in english?


They write Jeannie well because she's meant to be the Anti-Rodney, his equal yet opposite, and push all his buttons. Because they write him so well, they can write someone to really bring down his ego and make him less... Godney well, too.And Kate is a really good actress and Martin Gero is a really good writer. ;)

I think the stuff about Jeannie pushing McKay's buttons is true but it is not why I think she is a blast. ;)

nx01a
February 24th, 2008, 04:37 PM
I meant your sig. Not that they use beards.
Sigh, never mind.

garhkal
February 24th, 2008, 04:38 PM
You'd swear Beckett would want to be studying as many of them as possible... Or was he?

If he was, maybe that is how Michael got a hold of him..

Cynycal
February 24th, 2008, 05:30 PM
How can a sweet show like Farscape get cancelled?

The non-fandom audience is a cowardly, superstitious lot.


I actually don't help in the ratings since I only watch episodes that I've downloaded never watch any television live, and I don't have a single friend that does either, now ten years ago that was different but since its become readily available online who wants to actually schedule their life around when some television station decides is a good time for the show, I imagine that the current system of ratings is so outdated that all shows with a tech-savvy audience are likely suffering in that department a great deal, perhaps there should be a legal download count from places like Amazon and Itunes that are also submitted as ratings, that still (quite obviously) leaves the bootleggers out of the pictures and I know that there are a great deal of people that torrent every episode only to buy the DVD when they come available, none of that really seems like it would be a good system for recording "ratings" though, maybe those days are just on their way out the door period. with so many people doing this / using tivo ..etc.. commercials are likely suffering a great deal as well and that is unfortunate in a way because they support our shows financially I suspect that either product placement will run rampant in coming years or some type of subscription Blu-Ray service will become available.

man that was a mess of words, sorry about that. :sheppardanime23:

cabouse18
February 24th, 2008, 06:18 PM
I think the problem is more to do with Teyla then Rachel, well from my point of view anyway.;)

I feel they have given Ronon more of a personality (as alien) but left Teyla in the stereotyped, almost Teal'c kind of alien speech patten and seriously it just takes away from her character on screen.

No, I do not want her dropping American sayings into her dialogue but for me the clipped way the character speaks is distracting... I hate it in fanfics and I hate it on the show... let the gal loosen up a bit already, she can still be Teyla alien warrior but give her a dam personally STAT! We never really see her laughing (sure she has loads of burdens at the moment but still...) and she never really teases anyone, maybe that is her people's way :rolleyes: but you know it makes for a boring character.

Rachel has a great laugh use it! ;):)

Of course if she actually got more screen time with relevant dialogue in season's 1-3 we wouldn't have this problem. :rolleyes:

Yeah, maybe I just don't think tptb can write women characters... although Jeannie is a blast! :P

I agree that they don't lend much to Teyla's personality. They have evolved Ronon's character in the sense that he uses some earth refrences and even enjoys watching movies but with Teyla they seem to have left her character at stage one. Even over the years Teal'c became more 'earthy' Like you said above I don't want her spouting lines from movies or using slang but a personality shake up would be nice. Loosen her up a little. We got some glimpes of that last season towards the end but it was fleeting.

But I don't think it is Rachel....I like her acting; the problem lies with the character and restrictions and constrictions the writers seem to place on her.

Chailyn
February 24th, 2008, 08:25 PM
This one was meh, which sucks since I was really looking forward to it and not even just for the Carson angle. I wanted to see what the Teyla story would be about because that whole "my missing people" plot has produced a big, fat nothing so far.

Anyway, the bright spots:

-Lorne's team was cool. Poor Lorne looked so whipped after he lost Teyla.
-Michael retains his nice ability to remain as the sympathetic bad guy.
-S1 virus re-explored.

The disappointments:

-I found Teyla's storyline completely boring. I know we're supposed to care that the Athosians are gone, but I didn't care much back during "Missing" and after dropping the story for the last several weeks, I could care even less now. Obviously, so could the writers as the Athosians have convienently been turned into space zombies. They're red shirt fodder now. I'm thinking no more development for them!
-The Teyla/baby/soap opera is going exactly as I feared.
-I was hoping that Teyla wouldn't have an easy decision to make and that she'd have to make the choice whether to stay with her (non-space zombie) people or return to Atlantis. Obviously, much like Ronon in Reunion, that hard decision is out of her hands now. She'll just go with the flow of the plot, gain very little character development by not actually having to make a tough call, and return to Atlantis in the end. It even has a nice, little bow tied on top. :cool:
-The fact that they had to use the same freakin Beckett scene in their teaser. Even if they faded to black during the promo with Carson yelling, "What took you so long?", I would have been happy to at least see Carson for the first time during the actual episode. I know this isn't SGA's fault, but it still sucked. :(

GATEGOD
February 24th, 2008, 08:35 PM
-Michael retains his nice ability to remain as the sympathetic bad guy.

Yea. That is the best part of this episode in my opinion. It leaves you feeling that he's been pushed to this and that he's just trying to survive all be it at an extremely radical way. I love that about his character. If they had never did what they did to him he would still be that evil wraith but because of what they did he has the human quality to him and is forced to be an outcast. It makes you feel bad for him even though he is doing all these horrible things. I love it!

Ruffles
February 25th, 2008, 07:57 AM
Well, do the Athosian pregnancies last as long as our ones do?? Perhaps theirs is longer and he impregnated her in vengance.

That's an interesting idea, but she's undergone quite a bit of medical treatment. Someone in the infirmary would have noticed that she wasn't advancing at the same rate as a normal pregnancy would dictate.

And Athosians in general are just as human as everyone else. Admittedly the miniscule amount of Wraith DNA she has could affect it, but Keller or someone would have noticed.

I still think its a normal baby with Teyla and Kanaan as parents. I think Michael has gone off the deep end and is saying things to push her buttons.

But I've been known to be wrong. Once or twice. ;)


I will say the "sweet" Rodney/Teyla scene that I'd been looking forward to all season was a huge disappointment. :( I might have imagined S1 Rodney being that completely egotistical, but I don't expect it from Rodney now. That's not to say I expect him to be a sensitive people person, but this was going a little far, just for the sake of a laugh. And I'm starting to get really irritated about Rodney being used for comic relief this season. The Ronon/Rodney exchange on the way to the village wasn't funny either - that particular joke has been overdone on this show, and Rodney's always the brunt of it.

I saw both of these a little different.

Rodney's gift - He is actively taking interest in Teyla's child. In his mind, what could be greater than encouraging the baby to develop his love of science. Instead of assuming that a backward Athosian would be unable to understand it (like McKay would have in earlier seasons), he assumes Teyla's child can be brilliant and wants to give him a headstart. The very idea of Rodney thinking of a gift - and he had to spend a lot of time on this - shows sensitivity on his part. I find it incredibly sweet that he cares about Teyla enough to care about her son's well-being. He could have gone the easy way - had Jeannie pick something out from Baby Gap and send it. Instead, he spends hours recording his theories. For an unborn infant.

Ronon's teasing - I think Ronon's comment in and of itself is his way of showing respect and admiration of Rodney's abilities. He's fond of McKay or he wouldn't have said anything at all. He was obviously teasing, and the look they shared (to me) showed that Rodney understood it as well. Otherwise, a typical Conan zinger would have been tossed right back at him. Most guys I've been around seem to show affection by insulting each other. Weird, but a total guy thing to do.

marielabbott
February 25th, 2008, 08:16 AM
I was looking forward to this episode, for the return of Carson and the end of a string of lackluster fillers. Well, I’m afraid I’m disappointed. The episode wasn’t as terrible as some we’ve seen this season, but it wasn’t the really good ep I was hoping it would be.

It was great to see Teyla again (finally). Though it was rather disturbing how everyone was treating her search for her people as a waste of time. Has the expedition forgotten how instrumental the Athosians were in helping them settle into the Pegasus galaxy? Hmm, well, I guess I forgot too, since they’ve actually been missing since season 1. I did initially LOVE the Teyla/Rodney scene (why do we so rarely see these two together??). It was sweet—and ruined by the very next scene where Rodney reveals to Sheppard he doesn’t actually believe Teyla and is all about moving on and forgetting her people. That’s the kind of friend I would lay down my life for. :rolleyes:

Once again, I’m glad Carter is leaving Atlantis. The forced “Call me Sam” remark to Teyla reminded me of her lack of chemistry with the other characters.

I really liked Lorne in this episode. We learn he’s from the Bay area, an extremely expensive and beautiful place to live. :) Liked the interrogation scene with him and Teyla. Really liked his hang-dog expression after he lost her. And he’s really rather deadly with that P-90. :D

Also liked the call back to the Hoffmans. And loved Carson’s return, but if he turns out to be a replicator, I am not going to be at all thrilled.

Michael and his plans for Teyla’s baby…what’s the Athosian word for cliché, because that should be the child’s name. I really do not like where this is headed. And Kanaan and the other Athosians are now transformed into Michael’s evil hybrids…great, just great (sarcastic tone). Maybe we’ll also learn that Michael is actually Teyla’s biological father—maybe that’s the bond about which Michael was speaking. :rolleyes:

I wanted to like this episode, but I didn’t. :(

francis
February 25th, 2008, 09:05 AM
right I know most of you will ignore this but my guess as to how carson has come back is he ascended then deascended (like daniel did)propably in responce to what michael is doing (i.e killing people with a drug he invented).the signs are there in sunday for those with the wit to see them

Falcon Horus
February 25th, 2008, 11:58 AM
right I know most of you will ignore this but my guess as to how carson has come back is he ascended then deascended (like daniel did)propably in responce to what michael is doing (i.e killing people with a drug he invented).the signs are there in sunday for those with the wit to see them

Except JM said no one ascended, unless he suddenly changed his mind.

jelgate
February 25th, 2008, 12:50 PM
I hope its not ascension. That concept has been done to death. But I highly doubt ascension is involved

Integrabyte
February 25th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Except JM said no one ascended, unless he suddenly changed his mind.

Hmm...funny how he remembered everyone ;). Daniel did not recognise anyone ;). No ascension is involved with Carson ;)

Falcon Horus
February 25th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Hmm...funny how he remembered everyone ;). Daniel did not recognise anyone ;). No ascension is involved with Carson ;)

Good point... :)

Integrabyte
February 25th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Good point... :)

...it comes with the Antiness :P.

jelgate
February 25th, 2008, 01:41 PM
...it comes with the Antiness :P.

I thought they came up with bad points:P

*runs away*

Briangate78
February 25th, 2008, 01:46 PM
I thought they came up with bad points:P

*runs away*

LOL, good one. :p

shrap
February 25th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Do you think Carson has been worrying about his wee turtles the whole time?

cabouse18
February 25th, 2008, 02:39 PM
Do you think Carson has been worrying about his wee turtles the whole time?

:lol:

ShadowMaat
February 25th, 2008, 03:16 PM
The disappointments:

-I found Teyla's storyline completely boring. I know we're supposed to care that the Athosians are gone, but I didn't care much back during "Missing" and after dropping the story for the last several weeks, I could care even less now. Obviously, so could the writers as the Athosians have convienently been turned into space zombies. They're red shirt fodder now. I'm thinking no more development for them!
I think part of the problem is that the Athosians have been portrayed more as a nuisance than anything else. Or at least that's the impression I always got. First they were underfoot and in the way and then they were interrupting tense situations with their weird need for rituals and then they were out of the way but still causing problems, and then they needed to be moved AGAIN. Other than a couple of eps in S1 we haven't really gotten to know any other Athosians, either as individuals or as a people. They're just a blob moving from place to place and now that they've gone poof, so what? Dunno about anyone else, but I never felt emotionally invested in the Athosians and their plight. And Kanaan? We should care about him because he's obviously important to Teyla and even has Wraith genes (and what an "oh, by the way" moment that was! :rolleyes:), but again there's no emotional investment in his story. He's just some random Athosian guy. Sure, we can feel some sympathy for Teyla on a generic "missing loved one" basis, but we don't even know what she sees in the guy beyond what little we've been told. Told, not shown.

I know that the whole pregnancy storyline wasn't where they originally planned to go with the character, but it would have been nice if there had been some kind of base for them to build on rather than making stuff up on the spot and pretending there'd been some background for it. Offscreen, of course.

Falcon Horus
February 25th, 2008, 03:32 PM
Offscreen, of course.

Oh but they love the off-screen writing... :mckay:

GoSpikey
February 25th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Oh but they love the off-screen writing... :mckay:

*Does, I think, Mitchell's job?*

:indeed:

:lol:

Integrabyte
February 25th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Oh but they love the off-screen writing... :mckay:

..or they die in a dream :P

Willow'sCat
February 25th, 2008, 04:05 PM
I meant your sig. Not that they use beards.
Sigh, never mind.Ah, I see... you threw me; my sig is on rotation, I had no idea what you were on about! lol :P

I have to agree with some of comments on Michael, I am more sympathetic to him then appalled by his actions. Which is down to the writers inability to give us any clear or justifiable reason why Michael shouldn't have done what he has done. I mean basically the guy is Wraith, not the most "moral" of all entities in the PG... so what was our excuse?

I just can't get past the events that have lead us to here... hmm, if this was any other show I would call this a "biting commentary on the war in Iraq" but as it is Stargate I think they just blundered their way into something they still don't fully know how to get out of... hmm, that does sound familiar. :cool::rolleyes:

Anyway bottom line I have more sympathy for the enemy right about now then I do for the Atlantians. That cannot be what tptb have had in mind. :S:cool:

Falcon Horus
February 25th, 2008, 04:28 PM
..or they die in a dream :P

Exactly. :cool:

*wonders if this also counts as applying Jelgate's 4th law*

jelgate
February 25th, 2008, 04:33 PM
Exactly. :cool:

*wonders if this also counts as applying Jelgate's 4th law*

At least your character died on screen (Setup for 4th law)

Briangate78
February 25th, 2008, 04:34 PM
At least your character died on screen (Setup for 4th law)

LOL! Good one! :p

Falcon Horus
February 25th, 2008, 04:35 PM
At least your character died on screen (Setup for 4th law)

Hook. Line. And sinker... That she did, and she looked darn sexy too. :p

cabouse18
February 25th, 2008, 05:54 PM
I think part of the problem is that the Athosians have been portrayed more as a nuisance than anything else. Or at least that's the impression I always got. First they were underfoot and in the way and then they were interrupting tense situations with their weird need for rituals and then they were out of the way but still causing problems, and then they needed to be moved AGAIN. Other than a couple of eps in S1 we haven't really gotten to know any other Athosians, either as individuals or as a people. They're just a blob moving from place to place and now that they've gone poof, so what? Dunno about anyone else, but I never felt emotionally invested in the Athosians and their plight. And Kanaan? We should care about him because he's obviously important to Teyla and even has Wraith genes (and what an "oh, by the way" moment that was! :rolleyes:), but again there's no emotional investment in his story. He's just some random Athosian guy. Sure, we can feel some sympathy for Teyla on a generic "missing loved one" basis, but we don't even know what she sees in the guy beyond what little we've been told. Told, not shown.

I know that the whole pregnancy storyline wasn't where they originally planned to go with the character, but it would have been nice if there had been some kind of base for them to build on rather than making stuff up on the spot and pretending there'd been some background for it. Offscreen, of course.

It is called a loop hole....one which they exploited. They want us to be invested in Kanan but that is hard when we have only just met him now and he is more like a plot device than an actual character. Like you said, RL's pregnancy was spur of the moment but that doesn't mean that the storyline has to be.

I mean I nearly spat when Teyla said that Kanan had the Wraith gene. I mean we were aware that some of the Athosians have the gene but for them to throw it in then and now just comes off less believable and as more of a "whoops we forgot to say it before...so lets say it now so everyone knows." It should have been brought up in SOW when all of a sudden her superpowers were even more super (another loop hole IMO, btw)

I can't get invested in Kanan and to be honest I don't want to....his part in this storyline is sooo secondary and serves no other purpose than to explain the pregnancy....hence plot device. He won't make it out of the season premiere alive (at least that is what I hope)

EdenSG
February 25th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Wow, this was a really cool episode.

There were lots of things I really liked:

Lots of stuff going on. Loved how the writers pulled in plotlines from various other episdes. It creates good follow through and continuity. Especially liked how the Hoff vaccine/plotline from “Poisoning the Well” was used as the “plague” killing humans – it fits quite well with the direction the story is going.

Rodney and Teyla: Great scene between them in the beginning. Loved his gift – so like McKay to want to pass on his knowledge. I thought it was very sweet - in a McKay sort of way. :)

Carter – in this episode Carter was well used, she seemed to fit/work well – the best so far this season. She executed command comfortably and competently and we saw more bonding with established character’s – in particular referring to the scene between her and Teyla when Teyla is asking to go off world then Carter says call me Sam.

Teyla: Yea! Lots more of Teyla this week. She looks so innocent and beautiful pregnant but she can still kick b*tt when she needs to.

Loved John’s line, “It’s Teyla, we owe her one.” Something about the way JF delivered it – it just hit the mark very well.

I really loved seeing the team – John, Rodney, Ronon & Teyla – out on a “mission” together again. After so many stand alone eps and eps focused on only a few characters it was just great relief to see them all together again,and it felt long overdue.

Lots of Lorne! The look on his face when he came through the gate without Teyla was the perfect combination of guilt and fear.

Great scenes between Teyla and Michael.

Caldwell made an appearance! Even though his appearance was not very long, it always has an impact because I think MP has such a strong screen presence that with even only a few lines he can leave a strong impression.

Carson is Back!!!!!!! I loved his line “What took you so long?” and the expression on everyone else’s face - priceless.

A few things I was not too crazy about:

I thought the battle between the Daedulas and the Wraith cruiser was sort of weak.

Some of the cuts between scenes were rather abrupt as on several occasions it took me a few moments to get oriented as to what storyline we were in. One notable exception to this was in the beginning, the scene with Teyla and Rodney where she tells him of his vision and he assures her that he believes her and then it shifts right into the next scene with him telling John “I don’t really believe her.” It was very well done.

Also, I really wish the writers had spent more time in previous episodes on the missing Athosians and Kanaan plotlines. By the time we got to this episode it was like “oh the Athosians, that’s right, they’ve been missing for a while” and “oh, so that is Kanaan.” Because they have not been seen/discussed much there is limited emotional investment in these two significant plot lines. Addressing the fact that they were missing and more of Teyla’s anguish over the Athosinas and Kanaan being gone in a few prior episodes would have have upped the big climax and made this episode a bit more suspenseful.

However, overall I thought it was a pretty strong episode and I really, really liked it.
It was not the best episode of season 4 but definitely one of the better ones.

Can’t wait for Part 2 next week.

ShadowMaat
February 25th, 2008, 07:21 PM
I mean I nearly spat when Teyla said that Kanan had the Wraith gene. I mean we were aware that some of the Athosians have the gene but for them to throw it in then and now just comes off less believable and as more of a "whoops we forgot to say it before...so lets say it now so everyone knows." It should have been brought up in SOW when all of a sudden her superpowers were even more super (another loop hole IMO, btw)
It should have been a continuing storyline from The Gift on. That would have validated the Athosians existence and been a way to introduce us to Kanaan. Springing it on us now makes it seem like it's something TPTB never thought about until now and only thought of it because they needed to do something.


I can't get invested in Kanan and to be honest I don't want to....his part in this storyline is sooo secondary and serves no other purpose than to explain the pregnancy....hence plot device. He won't make it out of the season premiere alive (at least that is what I hope)
Of course he won't make it. In fact, he's probably going to be portrayed as a bad guy so that we'll have a grieving Teyla clinging to Our Hero, Sheppard and thus appease all the Shep/Teyla shippers out there and give the writers more fodder for another agonizingly drawn out, contradictory and generally obnoxious shipped/not-shipped extravaganza like the S/J stuff we got on SG-1. :rolleyes:

Also, while I'm glad that Carson fans are happy to have their favorite doctor back, his appearance right there at the end was a bit of a "frak you" to Teyla's whole story. Weak though I thought it was, at least it was hers, but then you get to the end and WHAM! you find out it's really all just a way to bring Carson back into the limelight. There is a method in 't, but I still think it's kind of a sad confluence of events and I wish the story could have been written in a way that didn't steal Teyla's thunder.

Crichiel
February 25th, 2008, 08:55 PM
You know, I just can't figure out what to say for this episode (so I should shut up, I suppose!) :P The thing is, now (3-4 days later), I don't remember a lot of specifics about it already. I don't remember DISliking it, but I didn't come away thinking "Wow!" either. Teyla's whole storyline bored me to tears. I think RL honestly tries, but I have just never had an interest in her as a lead character (and I agree with others who said her speech pattern can get really annoying). I like to see her play off the others, but the Teyla-centric stories are my least favourite.

Also, I think the first part of a 2-parter always suffers anyway, in that they have the less-than-glamourous job of setting up the second part. And 'skiffy' didn't help by putting the one big spoiler in the promos. :(

Ok, that said, I DID love the way so many old threads were pulled together for this episode. The writers did a fantastic job of bringing together
Todd, Michael, Michael's creations, Beckett, the Hoffans and their 'cure' for the Wraith . That was very impressive and by itself changed my rating for the episode from a 5 to a 7.

DarthAltaran
February 25th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Maybe they'll wrap up the Elizabeth storyline with the return of Carson

nx01a
February 25th, 2008, 09:29 PM
Of course the Athosians are red shirt fodder.
The most prominent Athosian was Halling, and Christopher Heyerdahl is no doubt making far more money and having far more fun with far better lines playing Todd than he ever did playing Halling.

What I'd pay money to see is Todd wraith Halling.
Green screen suicide, anyone?:D

PG15
February 25th, 2008, 10:00 PM
Ronon's teasing - I think Ronon's comment in and of itself is his way of showing respect and admiration of Rodney's abilities. He's fond of McKay or he wouldn't have said anything at all. He was obviously teasing, and the look they shared (to me) showed that Rodney understood it as well. Otherwise, a typical Conan zinger would have been tossed right back at him. Most guys I've been around seem to show affection by insulting each other. Weird, but a total guy thing to do.

And as a guy, I can back that up 100%. :D

Crichiel
February 26th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Of course
What I'd pay money to see is Todd wraith Halling.
Green screen suicide, anyone?:D

:lol: OMG! That would be hilarious! I hated Halling and love Todd! :wraithanime11:

Briangate78
February 26th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Rodney's gift - He is actively taking interest in Teyla's child. In his mind, what could be greater than encouraging the baby to develop his love of science. Instead of assuming that a backward Athosian would be unable to understand it (like McKay would have in earlier seasons), he assumes Teyla's child can be brilliant and wants to give him a headstart. The very idea of Rodney thinking of a gift - and he had to spend a lot of time on this - shows sensitivity on his part. I find it incredibly sweet that he cares about Teyla enough to care about her son's well-being. He could have gone the easy way - had Jeannie pick something out from Baby Gap and send it. Instead, he spends hours recording his theories. For an unborn infant.

Ronon's teasing - I think Ronon's comment in and of itself is his way of showing respect and admiration of Rodney's abilities. He's fond of McKay or he wouldn't have said anything at all. He was obviously teasing, and the look they shared (to me) showed that Rodney understood it as well. Otherwise, a typical Conan zinger would have been tossed right back at him. Most guys I've been around seem to show affection by insulting each other. Weird, but a total guy thing to do.

This is what we call continued character development, imo Thaaaaaaank you. :p Season one Rodney would be too worried about himself to even think of Teyla or anyone. Season two, Ronon would not even say a word to Rodney. I think Ronon and Mckay became closer as friends in "Tao of Rodney" and "Sunday". Like I said from last season, Carson's death has changed Rodney. I think it has made him a stronger person, but he still has his flaws as we saw with him trying to propose to Katie.

AutumnDream
February 26th, 2008, 12:39 PM
I think part of the problem is that the Athosians have been portrayed more as a nuisance than anything else. Or at least that's the impression I always got. First they were underfoot and in the way and then they were interrupting tense situations with their weird need for rituals and then they were out of the way but still causing problems, and then they needed to be moved AGAIN. Other than a couple of eps in S1 we haven't really gotten to know any other Athosians, either as individuals or as a people. They're just a blob moving from place to place and now that they've gone poof, so what? Dunno about anyone else, but I never felt emotionally invested in the Athosians and their plight. And Kanaan? We should care about him because he's obviously important to Teyla and even has Wraith genes (and what an "oh, by the way" moment that was! :rolleyes:), but again there's no emotional investment in his story. He's just some random Athosian guy. Sure, we can feel some sympathy for Teyla on a generic "missing loved one" basis, but we don't even know what she sees in the guy beyond what little we've been told. Told, not shown.

I know that the whole pregnancy storyline wasn't where they originally planned to go with the character, but it would have been nice if there had been some kind of base for them to build on rather than making stuff up on the spot and pretending there'd been some background for it. Offscreen, of course.

Yeah, everything you've said here is a good example of how many the SGA writers tend not to think like... writers. There's a certain logistical way you approach situations as a writer, first considering 1)what story elements you want to include 2)what you want to get across with those elements 3)the most effective way to approach the execution in order to achieve the desired effect. In many SGA scripts, it comes across more like some teenager's fanfiction writing, wherein the "author" suddenly thinks up a bunch of "cool" plot elements and throws them all in his word processor without going through any of the above steps. As a result things that could have been very potent end up being weak and understated, or worse - weak and overstated. (Teyla plot)

Chailyn
February 26th, 2008, 12:57 PM
Of course he won't make it. In fact, he's probably going to be portrayed as a bad guy so that we'll have a grieving Teyla clinging to Our Hero, Sheppard and thus appease all the Shep/Teyla shippers out there and give the writers more fodder for another agonizingly drawn out, contradictory and generally obnoxious shipped/not-shipped extravaganza like the S/J stuff we got on SG-1. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to touch the shipper speculation, lol, but I am bothered that these tough choices seem to be removed from the characters. Ronon's friends went "evil" so it nullified any choices he had to make. Now, Teyla's people and lover are hybrids. Unless Carson can reverse the effects, it looks like they're going to be "evil" too. Really tough decision for Teyla. It's a shame since these decisions are what define characters. It's all just too easy and convenient. On the other hand, I recognize that RL threw them a curve ball with her pregnancy. This wasn't Plan A by any means. Regardless though, I haven't been happy with the way they've handled it.

And I agree about Michael. I'm sympathetic to the guy too.

Sam_Carter
February 26th, 2008, 01:00 PM
CARSON!!!!!!!!
OH MY GOD!!! YAAAAAAAAAAY!!!
SO SQUEEDIDILY HAPPY!!!!!!!

Just saw the episode, oh it's so good to see Paul back. Missed him so much. Can't wait till next tuesday!!!!

jannagalaxy
February 26th, 2008, 01:10 PM
:oI think it was a cool episode and it sounds like to me that Micheal is after Teyla, but I could be wrong. He seemed to be talking to Teyla like he's the father of her unborn son.
I think the character is so cool and so is Connor Trinner - :)

I'm suprised John didn't start off with Todd about the attack on Midway Station.

Loved when Rodney give Teyla a pressie that was so adorable....until it was him talking, I don't think it's morrally right to brainwash an unborn child. :o

But the end!!!! OMG!!!!!! CARSON!!!!!!! It brought a tear to my eye!!!!

But the end nearly was cut off. The credits where shoved in the corner....flaming skyone :(

Anyhow, can't wait for next weeks! :)

cabouse18
February 26th, 2008, 01:56 PM
I'm not going to touch the shipper speculation, lol, but I am bothered that these tough choices seem to be removed from the characters. Ronon's friends went "evil" so it nullified any choices he had to make. Now, Teyla's people and lover are hybrids. Unless Carson can reverse the effects, it looks like they're going to be "evil" too. Really tough decision for Teyla. It's a shame since these decisions are what define characters. It's all just too easy and convenient. On the other hand, I recognize that RL threw them a curve ball with her pregnancy. This wasn't Plan A by any means. Regardless though, I haven't been happy with the way they've handled it.

And I agree about Michael. I'm sympathetic to the guy too.

Yeah as much as Michael is the bad guy. He is the bad guy you love b/c you almost feel for him. Connor is a great actor and has done a phenomenal job of portraying Michael as someone who really has no one and has turned bitter b/c of it. He really does have an obsession with Teyla and I think his feeling of their "connection" are genuine.

I have been saying that while RL threw them a curve ball with her pregnancy, the writers could have handled it differently. I think the story they decided to go with has many holes and it shows as the season winds down and comes to a conclusion (somewhat).

ShadowMaat
February 26th, 2008, 01:59 PM
On the other hand, I recognize that RL threw them a curve ball with her pregnancy. This wasn't Plan A by any means. Regardless though, I haven't been happy with the way they've handled it.
If TPTB had bothered to lay any kind of groundwork for the character then it might have been easier to cobble together a story for her. But all we've gotten have been dribs and drabs about her Wraith genes, dragged out whenever it's convenient for the plot-at-hand, but otherwise pretty much ignored- much like Teyla herself, IMO. Then Rachel drops the bombshell about her pregnancy and all of a sudden the writers have to scramble to invent stuff for Teyla and pretend that it's been part of her back story all along.

cabouse18
February 26th, 2008, 02:11 PM
If TPTB had bothered to lay any kind of groundwork for the character then it might have been easier to cobble together a story for her. But all we've gotten have been dribs and drabs about her Wraith genes, dragged out whenever it's convenient for the plot-at-hand, but otherwise pretty much ignored- much like Teyla herself, IMO. Then Rachel drops the bombshell about her pregnancy and all of a sudden the writers have to scramble to invent stuff for Teyla and pretend that it's been part of her back story all along.


Excactly....I like Teyla and feel she has been ignored and while they had a different plan for her character this season....this was NOT the type of storyline to use in order to try and bring her character to a)forefront and/or b) develop the character. I hate when the show throws stuff into a character that would have seemingly been going on either off screen or been there the entire time and finally after 4 years they feel the need to mention it for the first time.

Falcon Horus
February 26th, 2008, 02:13 PM
If TPTB had bothered to lay any kind of groundwork for the character then it might have been easier to cobble together a story for her. But all we've gotten have been dribs and drabs about her Wraith genes, dragged out whenever it's convenient for the plot-at-hand, but otherwise pretty much ignored- much like Teyla herself, IMO. Then Rachel drops the bombshell about her pregnancy and all of a sudden the writers have to scramble to invent stuff for Teyla and pretend that it's been part of her back story all along.

IMHO, spot on!

Integrabyte
February 26th, 2008, 02:46 PM
I love Teyla's line :"Whoever did this, they will pay!!!"

I would have believed that in S1 or S2. But now, it was something hollow. Who will make them pay? She will? She is pregnant she is no condition to go hunting. The IOA does not care about the Athosians, Shep and co don't care either. Lucky she got a ride on that cruiser otherwise nobody would have helped her :P.


The expedition has better things to do:

1. Drinking games.
2. Play who would you date games in a ditch.
3. Bond in the infirmary
4. Babysit brats
5. Organise fights for profit


...and so on and so forth :P

Alan
February 26th, 2008, 03:02 PM
Absolutely fantastic episode! Brilliant! What a cliffhanger! Can't wait for Part 2!

10 out of 10! :)

Mekarri
February 26th, 2008, 08:33 PM
Meh. Probably not, but it doesn't really matter. We know we didn't know. :D

This is actually the first ep I've seen since Doppelganger. I saw Lorne in the previews and I knew they were doing the Big Reveal with Carson and since the Psych finale was last week I had nothing better to do with my time and was bored enough to see if the show was as bad as I remember. ;) The ep wasn't cringe-worthy, but I don't think it was very good, either. The dialogue felt clunky in places, and not just that trader dude's. The story seemed awkwardly strung together as well and designed to pass time without accomplishing much.

IMO, what Teyla should have done was gone to Shep or Sam and said, "Hey look, I know you guys are kinda busy right now, but I've had a vision of Kanaan. I haven't mentioned it before, but he and I are a lot alike; we both have Wraith DNA and I think he may be trying to contact me the way I've contacted the Wraith. Is it okay if I go to this planet he mentioned and see what I can find?" And, since Teyla has proven herself time and again over the years, they should damn well believe her and let her go without the "It's probably nothing, so don't waste too much of our time, Mamacita" attitude. Let her go on her own or send a team with her, but have a little faith in one of the members of your primary team.

Hello everyone,

I love SGA but completely agree about the way they treat and see Tayla. Her character has changed from a leader to someone who needs others to look after her and to second guess her. Being pregnant she does have to take more precaution, that a given, but doesn't she still have a brain? I always thought that Teyla was an intelligent woman. It would be nice if they were to show her the respect that she has earn.

nx01a
February 26th, 2008, 10:19 PM
I was a bit surprised how they dismissed this. There're Ascended Beings and all sorts of technologies and species able to make telepathic contact. They still had no idea what happened to her people. To dismiss something potentially paranormal just because she's the pregnant little woman is not only disrespect, it's bad exploring.

Bad explorers! Bad!

Elinor
February 26th, 2008, 11:05 PM
Gosh! That was a jam-packed full of good stuff eppie that was! I'm really intrigued to see where they're going with this one. Spoiler freeness is definitely working for me!

:)

Alan
February 27th, 2008, 05:30 AM
Gosh! That was a jam-packed full of good stuff eppie that was! I'm really intrigued to see where they're going with this one. Spoiler freeness is definitely working for me!

:)

Here, here! Me too! :)

randy23
February 27th, 2008, 01:33 PM
The bad:
* Teyla's Z-plot

* continuity:
a) oh btw, the Hoffans were destroyed by the Wraith
b) The Kindred continues the Missing story, 11 episodes too late
c) suddenly there's a disease we haven't heard about till now, even though they've been tracking it for a couple of months now

* connecting jewelry to people we've never heard or seen before, it's an empty element
* the forced "Call me Sam"-moment, oh please... give me a break
* the costume department needs to rethink their ways of dressing the characters, they don't look particularly flattering in all that leather, and Teyla doesn't look flattering at all... Rachel looks sexy as hell, even pregnant she is a beauty, but they could have gone with better maternity clothes than some of what is shown.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to add something to the bad here:
"Oh goddess, it's the Orici all over again!"

Overall, I'm glad I didn't anticipate too much, cause it fell flat... F-L-A-T, flat! Not even Carson's appearance phased me. I was bored. And I was thinking... Oh boy, how I'm looking forward to season 5. [insert serious sarcasm]

Oh, and as an afterthought... Heightmeyer wouldn't have misstood in this episode. I can easily write her in and make the plot better than the thin little attempt that was on screen.

ahh.. Beckett helped the Hoffans(sp?) improve the drug. Remember? The fact there's a Beckett clone suggests some guidance in creating the drug for Micheal, whether forced or voluntary. This is a continuity series so it should come to no shock that past events have a connection with the present. The rest of your post is your subjective view.

CassandraSGA
February 27th, 2008, 01:36 PM
Here, here! Me too! :)

Second that! Unfortunately, I knew that Carson was making a comeback but luckily I didn't know when so it was a complete surprise to see his sweet face!
I liked this eps. I love how Ronon teases Rodney and it was great to see more of Lorne. I wish they wouldn't give the list of guest stars up front since "Connor Trineer" is quite a giveaway to the plot. But he can stay as looooooong as he likes I have to say. He is easily one of the most interesting characters around.
I hope they're not going to make the Teyla baby story too much like an eps from SG 1 Season 10, and the whole Orici nonsense.
Can't wait for part II

Falcon Horus
February 27th, 2008, 03:09 PM
ahh.. Beckett helped the Hoffans(sp?) improve the drug. Remember? The fact there's a Beckett clone suggests some guidance in creating the drug for Micheal, whether forced or voluntary. This is a continuity series so it should come to no shock that past events have a connection with the present. The rest of your post is your subjective view.

Not sure what part that refers to in my post... Excuse me my ignorance there. :o

Beckett did help the Hoffans, I remember that since I am currently in the process of running a SGA marathon.
But it's the fact that they forgot about the Hoffans for 3 whole seasons and suddenly they're back. That's not continuity, that's searching the archives for a way to try to be plausible on your storytelling. Maybe we should be lucky they remember them, cause there are quite few things and persons we'll never hear or see again, who fell down the black hole of storytelling.

Matt G
February 27th, 2008, 03:44 PM
1. Liked Todd.

2. Interesting how they worked the Hoffans in, yet you just knew that was how Beckett linked in.

3. Micheal's work. Hmmm...sly one. So now the Athosians are...hybrid things?

4. The biggest unanswered questions all concern Beckett!

Very different from last week's ep but still very good! :)

PG15
February 27th, 2008, 05:23 PM
But it's the fact that they forgot about the Hoffans for 3 whole seasons and suddenly they're back. That's not continuity, that's searching the archives for a way to try to be plausible on your storytelling.

What is your definition of continuity, then? As far as I know, referencing back to past events is maintaining the continuity.

Crichiel
February 27th, 2008, 07:17 PM
What is your definition of continuity, then? As far as I know, referencing back to past events is maintaining the continuity.

No kidding! I never thought that continuity had a time limit!! :rolleyes:

AutumnDream
February 27th, 2008, 08:39 PM
That's not continuity, that's searching the archives for a way to try to be plausible on your storytelling.

That's true. It actually takes effort and planning to follow through with a story as it is happening. Dropping a line or two about it years later does not really constitute continuity in any practical sense. That said, I did enjoy Poisoning the Well when it aired and thought S1 was very good. They definitely could have found a way to make that story play a part in something larger much earlier though.

ShadowMaat
February 27th, 2008, 09:47 PM
Continuity usually involves dropping hints along the way leading up to a Big Reveal. Although I do have a legitimate question, seeing as I haven't been watching: have there been any hints/references to any illnesses, or even rumors of sickness since Carson disappeared? Casual mentions made in passing as such-and-such team comes back from a mission or when AR-1 is in some token village? Unexplained deaths? Missing persons, other than the Athosians? Maybe even Wraith inexplicably turning up dead? That would have been a good way to hint at things and build up the mystery without devoting whole episodes to it. The leap from Poisoning the Well to Kindred is pretty big, but it'd be moderately less so if the idea had been seeded a little earlier. Or did Carson ever give indication that he was continuing to work on the Hoffan drug after PtW? That would help, too, and add to Michael's reasons for abducting him.

PG15
February 27th, 2008, 10:16 PM
I think this is a recent development, so no.

nx01a
February 27th, 2008, 10:34 PM
While I do think it's a perfect fit to have Michael using the Hoffan drug, I dislike how this thread was introduced.

Plague across a few worlds, you say? 30% of the population dead, you say? Where was the Atlantis medical/humanitarian aid? Where was Dr. Firefly while people were dying? Talking about Colbert in a hole with Sam and Mckay?:P This type of incident is what would give her more depth and should not have been given a 'As you know' bit of handwaving to establish it [just like Kanaan having the Wraith gene and being a childhood friend was stuck in]. How much more disturbed would we be if we'd seen an episode with plague victims dropping left, right and centre, and the Atlantis team trying to help? How much more of a twisted being would Michael appear once we've seen his handywork beforehand? I'd have enjoyed that far more than 'Harmony' or 'Trio'. Hopefully Keller will get some serious screentime during the Carson and the Athosian transformation medical investigations.

I agree with ShadowMaat that continuity can work well with the little bits dropped along the way for the diehard viewers, but just picking up a 3 year old thread because it fits perfectly is also good. Unfortunately, tptb missed a chance for a good episode with lotsa people dying and much angst on Keller's part as character development.

PG15
February 27th, 2008, 10:43 PM
Plague across a few worlds, you say? 30% of the population dead, you say? Where was the Atlantis medical/humanitarian aid? Where was Dr. Firefly while people were dying? Talking about Colbert in a hole with Sam and Mckay?:P This type of incident is what would give her more depth and should not have been given a 'As you know' bit of handwaving to establish it. How much more disturbed would we be if we'd seen an episode with plague victims dropping left, right and centre, and the Atlantis team trying to help? How much more of a twisted being would Michael appear once we've seen his handywork beforehand? I'd have enjoyed that far more than 'Harmony' or 'Trio'. Hopefully Keller will get some serious screentime during the Carson and the Athosian transformation medical investigations.

Hmmm...plague victims dropping off one by one, with our team and doctors unable to help...

Sounds like "The Powers that Be" from SG1. Ripoff!!! :p

nx01a
February 27th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Lol! True, but it's how you do it. There isn't an original plot, sci-fi or otherwise, under the sun; it's how you craft the plot to suit your characters and situation.

Ripoff? Sam's experience on previous outbreaks would be a good thing. ;)

PG15
February 27th, 2008, 10:54 PM
Lol! True, but it's how you do it. There isn't an original plot, sci-fi or otherwise, under the sun; it's how you craft the plot to suit your characters and situation.

Shoot, I guess I need to work on my irony. ;)

To be honest, Stargate has never been good at foreshadowing or long-term planning, so I wasn't surprised that we get blindsided by this sudden plot turn. Just the fact that they referenced the past is good enough, as that's usually all Stargate does anyway.

They refer back a lot, but never forwards. ;)

nx01a
February 27th, 2008, 11:03 PM
Mm. That's true. My preferred style of sci-fi writing is the JMS/Babylon 5 'plot the whole thing' way of doing a series. Know where you want it to end, be flexible with the little things.

The Hoffan drug was a great choice, I'm glad tptb are mining the great history they've already established on the show.

And your sarcasm/irony came across fine, esp. with the aid of smileys. :P

CassandraSGA
February 28th, 2008, 02:48 AM
Wasn't it mentioned after "Poisoning the Well" that the Hoffans had been destroyed by the Wraith?? It must have been mentioned somewhere cos I knew that had happened and I'm not related to any of the writers of the show.
I think the conitunuity thing has been fine. Michael is an ongoing plot line and it's not like their adventures are a weekly thing. (Teyla is already over 6months pregnant and it hasn't been that long in terms of the show ) This disease has been spreading for a while but that's all back story innit.

Rachel500
February 28th, 2008, 04:27 AM
Continuity for me is simply consistency in characterisation, backstory, ongoing consequences that relate to established events, etc.

There is bad and good continuity. For example, the invincibility device that shows up in S1 and then shows up in S3 demonstrates bad continuity in that it suddenly changes properties without any explanation for the change. Good continuity is McKay's lemon allergy, ability to eat in times of crisis, etc - or Teyla's comment to Shep that she'll head for the gate at the first sign of trouble which alludes back to their previous discussions on her being off-world on missions and pregnant.

The issue for me in the introduction of the plague, reintroduction of Michael, and the revisit to the Athosians are missing stuff is not so much with the continuity of these elements (it could be argued some of it is good, some bad) as with the actual story-telling in how they were introduced/reintroduced.

Arcs need to be planned very carefully with references in stories that don't focus on them so they stay fresh in the audiences' minds. The series did a good job of introducing the Athosians are missing stuff, good follow-up in The Seer, in Teyla's expression of worry regarding her child being without a family in Quarantine but the search for her people, her worries, etc really hasn't been touched upon in the last half of the season making it seem jolting when its suddenly the focus of a story again.

There needs to be build-up, foreshadowing, hints, references. Unfortunately, I think focusing on arcs is still a bit of a work in progress for TPTB - they are much more used to story of the week stuff. Hence why we suddenly get the plague without any build-up. With a little bit more thought they could have used a then unknown plague as the reason for the visit to the mining planet in Trio which would have led nicely into this.

I have more sympathy with them over introducing Kanaan given they were surprised with Luttrell's real life pregnancy but again, it would have been nice to have seen him earlier even in flashback so we got a little more invested in him as a character.

I think its great they are focusing on arcs; I just hope they continue to improve on how they execute them.

ShadowMaat
February 28th, 2008, 06:56 AM
Plague across a few worlds, you say? 30% of the population dead, you say? Where was the Atlantis medical/humanitarian aid? Where was Dr. Firefly while people were dying? Talking about Colbert in a hole with Sam and Mckay?:P
Yeah, there's that, too. I'm tired of telling, not showing, and if it's gotten to the point where multiple worlds are experiencing a 30% death rate, doesn't that imply it's been around a while? Shouldn't someone have noticed sooner? Or was it of no particular interest until now? How convenient. :P

Falcon Horus
February 28th, 2008, 07:26 AM
I never thought that continuity had a time limit!! :rolleyes:

Did I say there was?


What is your definition of continuity, then? As far as I know, referencing back to past events is maintaining the continuity.

*points down to Shadow's post*


Continuity usually involves dropping hints along the way leading up to a Big Reveal.


Although I do have a legitimate question, seeing as I haven't been watching: have there been any hints/references to any illnesses, or even rumors of sickness since Carson disappeared? Casual mentions made in passing as such-and-such team comes back from a mission or when AR-1 is in some token village? Unexplained deaths? Missing persons, other than the Athosians? Maybe even Wraith inexplicably turning up dead? That would have been a good way to hint at things and build up the mystery without devoting whole episodes to it. The leap from Poisoning the Well to Kindred is pretty big, but it'd be moderately less so if the idea had been seeded a little earlier. Or did Carson ever give indication that he was continuing to work on the Hoffan drug after PtW? That would help, too, and add to Michael's reasons for abducting him.

Nope, not a peep.


Continuity for me is simply consistency in characterisation, backstory, ongoing consequences that relate to established events, etc.

*points up* Also, not a bad explanation of how I would view continuity.



I think its great they are focusing on arcs; I just hope they continue to improve on how they execute them.

I'm still waiting for it ... the arc, I mean...

randy23
February 28th, 2008, 07:50 AM
Not sure what part that refers to in my post... Excuse me my ignorance there. :o

Beckett did help the Hoffans, I remember that since I am currently in the process of running a SGA marathon.
But it's the fact that they forgot about the Hoffans for 3 whole seasons and suddenly they're back. That's not continuity, that's searching the archives for a way to try to be plausible on your storytelling. Maybe we should be lucky they remember them, cause there are quite few things and persons we'll never hear or see again, who fell down the black hole of storytelling.

Well since the SGA expedition does explore and meet new people, races -- writers trying to consistently insert past groups for the sake of recognizing their existence is unrealistic; however, the writers do make a point to referrence certain groups from time to time.

Hoffans' information is continuity, as it is relevant to the story in which the writers are trying to present. The character, Orlin, came back in SG1 to aid and shed light about the Ori's true intentions; Micheal's situation and the use of the Hoffan's drug is no different.

Falcon Horus
February 28th, 2008, 07:55 AM
Well since the SGA expedition does explore and meet new people, races -- writers trying to consistently insert past groups for the sake of recognizing their existence is unrealistic; however, the writers do make a point to referrence certain groups from time to time.

I don't expect them to be mentioned every other episode... but you can recognize the fact that suddenly mentioning the Hoffans as semi-important to the story (Michael using the drug for his own agenda) is more like a "Oh remember the Hoffans and their drug. Remember that story from way back. How about we use that again... Like a surprise-element, like showing them we havn't forgotten about them." ... You can bet on it, they weren't looking for continuity but more a plot device to get their story going. And after the Kindred they will never mention the Hoffans or their drug again till maybe in season 8 (which I don't see happening)... so never again.

jelgate
February 28th, 2008, 08:19 AM
I don't expect them to be mentioned every other episode... but you can recognize the fact that suddenly mentioning the Hoffans as semi-important to the story (Michael using the drug for his own agenda) is more like a "Oh remember the Hoffans and their drug. Remember that story from way back. How about we use that again... Like a surprise-element, like showing them we havn't forgotten about them." ... You can bet on it, they weren't looking for continuity but more a plot device to get their story going. And after the Kindred they will never mention the Hoffans or their drug again till maybe in season 8 (which I don't see happening)... so never again.

Well, its not like they haven't done that before. The Gamekeeper chair was used in S2 and their was no mention of it until S8

Briangate78
February 28th, 2008, 08:24 AM
Well, its not like they haven't done that before. The Gamekeeper chair was used in S2 and their was no mention of it until S8

Hey at least they are using some classic story and combining it with a new story arc and mixing it with a return of a foe and a lost friend. Gotta say it was clever thinking. No wonder why the show is maintaining it's audience from last season ( Feels good to say that since it's true) ;) :p

Falcon Horus
February 28th, 2008, 08:39 AM
Well, its not like they haven't done that before. The Gamekeeper chair was used in S2 and their was no mention of it until S8

Wait... *thinks* ... Avatar? Only saw season 8 once... If I remember correctly it was the semi-game environment episode...and again the chair was a plotdevice.

Briangate78
February 28th, 2008, 08:41 AM
Wait... *thinks* ... Avatar? Only saw season 8 once... If I remember correctly it was the semi-game environment episode...and again the chair was a plotdevice.

Yeah it was the episode where Teal'c goes into the virtual game and he gets stuck and then Daniel goes in to try and help get him out.

jelgate
February 28th, 2008, 08:45 AM
Wait... *thinks* ... Avatar? Only saw season 8 once... If I remember correctly it was the semi-game environment episode...and again the chair was a plotdevice.

That was my point. Stargate has done continunity like this for years as a plot device. Its not actually a new idea in the franchise

(I apologize for spelling errors. I am sleep deprivied.)

Ruffles
February 28th, 2008, 09:45 AM
I thought revisiting the Hoffan storyline was very clever. They never meant to go this route originally, but with Rachel's pregnancy they made adjustments. I'm sure in late S2, they never considered having Teyla pregnant. We were given almost certainties at the end of PtW that the Wraith would destroy the Hoffans. I can't imagine where the fact that Shep and co (or another team) returned to Hoff and found them all dead would fit in a later ep.

I understand the complaint about Kanaan, and it would have been good to have seen him earlier (having a voiceover in Missing of Teyla describing him while actually showing them together would have been nice), but again, Rachel told them she was pregnant as they were writing Missing (and had several other eps already written). S*** happens. We could have seen the Athosians more often, but frankly they aren't that interesting - a bunch of farmers and hunters that like the Lantians.

PtW was a pivotal ep for Beckett in learning who he was. While they could have had Michael create some other kind of toxin/disease in his bid for galactic domination - why? They already had one that was lethal to humans and Wraith. What more could Michael want? I thought it was brilliant to use it as a foreshadowing of Beckett returning (although if I hadn't been spoiled to the fact he was returning, I wonder if I would have picked up on it).

I agree that they could have shown a disease-ravaged town with people dying as medical personnel worked feverishly in the background or could have had the other teams (that we don't see) mention sickness on planets they've visited. I guess I assumed that "for some time" meant in the past couple of months, and we know that time is relative in the Stargate world - sometimes weeks or months have passed between eps. The fact that we hadn't seen any evidence of it onscreen this season never even hit my radar.

ShadowMaat
February 28th, 2008, 09:45 AM
Just because they've been doing it for years doesn't make it right. :P I want to say people grumbled about the "Oh, by the way..." with the chair, too, although that was a long while back and I could be mis-remembering it.

randy23
February 28th, 2008, 09:50 AM
I don't expect them to be mentioned every other episode... but you can recognize the fact that suddenly mentioning the Hoffans as semi-important to the story (Michael using the drug for his own agenda) is more like a "Oh remember the Hoffans and their drug. Remember that story from way back. How about we use that again... Like a surprise-element, like showing them we havn't forgotten about them." ... You can bet on it, they weren't looking for continuity but more a plot device to get their story going. And after the Kindred they will never mention the Hoffans or their drug again till maybe in season 8 (which I don't see happening)... so never again.

Falcon, there's still another part to this story. We'll have to wait and see, like how Beckett was brought back to life, how Micheal came across the Hoffan's drug apart from probing or possibly torturing Beckett, who seemed to be in pretty descent shape at the end of Kindred.

ShadowMaat
February 28th, 2008, 11:20 AM
Actually, I have a pretty good idea how Carson might still be alive. He's been snatched up by a Wraith dart before, hasn't he? So his pattern might still have been in a buffer somewhere, ready to be copied out again.

Or at least that's the first thing I thought of when I saw it was the Wraith that had him. *shrug* Can't remember far back enough to say how likely it is, but if, for instance, he'd been buffered in S1, that might explain the relevance of the Hoffans while building off events in S2, although that'd put a pretty weird spin on things with Michael seeing as Carson didn't "create" him until S2. If true, I wonder if Michael has told Carson of his origin and the Good Doctor's part in it or if he chose to keep him in the dark and just made general references about how he came to be.

It'd be an interesting direction to take. Maybe I will watch part 2 just to see how they explain things.

Or am I wildly off base and what I'm guessing never actually happened? Or at least never happened on the show itself. Knowing TPTB's penchant for offscreen storytelling (with an emphasis on telling, not showing), anything is possible. :P

Falcon Horus
February 28th, 2008, 11:22 AM
That was my point. Stargate has done continunity like this for years as a plot device. Its not actually a new idea in the franchise

In my point of view that's not continuity, that's using a previous imported idea and re-using it later as a plotdevice, and with no other intention than a means to an end.

Continuity is continuing a story right... The Hoffan drug is no longer about the Hoffans and their fight, it's about Michael who happened to stumble across the formula, probably thanks to Beckett. Therefor, plotdevice.


Falcon, there's still another part to this story. We'll have to wait and see, like how Beckett was brought back to life, how Micheal came across the Hoffan's drug apart from probing or possibly torturing Beckett, who seemed to be in pretty descent shape at the end of Kindred.

Yes, and we will continue the conversation after saturday when we know more, okay? :)

jelgate
February 28th, 2008, 11:25 AM
In my point of view that's not continuity, that's using a previous imported idea and re-using it later as a plotdevice, and with no other intention than a means to an end.

Continuity is continuing a story right... The Hoffan drug is no longer about the Hoffans and their fight, it's about Michael who happened to stumble across the formula, probably thanks to Beckett. Therefor, plotdevice.


Their is no denying it is a plot device. Almost every element in a story is a plot device. Maybe I'm too general

Yes, and we will continue the conversation after saturday when we know more, okay? :)

Friday for some of us.

Integrabyte
February 28th, 2008, 03:01 PM
In my point of view that's not continuity, that's using a previous imported idea and re-using it later as a plotdevice, and with no other intention than a means to an end.

Continuity is continuing a story right... The Hoffan drug is no longer about the Hoffans and their fight, it's about Michael who happened to stumble across the formula, probably thanks to Beckett. Therefor, plotdevice.



Yes, and we will continue the conversation after saturday when we know more, okay? :)


Agreed on both counts ;). G U I L T Y!!! In order to support this continuity in SGA, give Michael that Aurora class ship we saw in the trailer and let us know through a simple phrase that Michael stole it and now masters the ATA gene and he injected all his zombies so they can fire drones. They could easily use this because he had Carson.


***** 10 sarcasm smileys in here :P ****

Briangate78
February 28th, 2008, 03:17 PM
In my point of view that's not continuity, that's using a previous imported idea and re-using it later as a plotdevice, and with no other intention than a means to an end.

Continuity is continuing a story right... The Hoffan drug is no longer about the Hoffans and their fight, it's about Michael who happened to stumble across the formula, probably thanks to Beckett. Therefor, plotdevice.



Yes, and we will continue the conversation after saturday when we know more, okay? :)


I have to disagree. I was watching "Michael" just before. They surely did continue that story arc and the character development into "The Kindred". Well that is how I see it. Everyone has a different view of how they see it of course. I think it was well done how it tied into the earlier story arcs and it truly showed a continuity.

Mitchell82
February 28th, 2008, 03:58 PM
I was looking forward to this episode, for the return of Carson and the end of a string of lackluster fillers. Well, I’m afraid I’m disappointed. The episode wasn’t as terrible as some we’ve seen this season, but it wasn’t the really good ep I was hoping it would be.
Personally I don't think any eps this season has been terrible, actually the only terrible ep in 4 seasons was "The Tower" though I do enjoy it.


It was great to see Teyla again (finally). Though it was rather disturbing how everyone was treating her search for her people as a waste of time. Has the expedition forgotten how instrumental the Athosians were in helping them settle into the Pegasus galaxy?
Compared to the situation we were in I understand their reasoning for that. I don't think they were implying it was a waste of time just not a high priority with the situation with hundreds of thousands of people dieing.

Hmm, well, I guess I forgot too, since they’ve actually been missing since season 1.
No they haven't.

I did initially LOVE the Teyla/Rodney scene (why do we so rarely see these two together??). It was sweet—and ruined by the very next scene where Rodney reveals to Sheppard he doesn’t actually believe Teyla and is all about moving on and forgetting her people. That’s the kind of friend I would lay down my life for. :rolleyes:
Rodney is a scientist, not surprising he didn't believe her. He was trying to console a friend. I liked that scene.


Once again, I’m glad Carter is leaving Atlantis. The forced “Call me Sam” remark to Teyla reminded me of her lack of chemistry with the other characters.
Really? I thought that proved there is chemistry with the characters.


I really liked Lorne in this episode. We learn he’s from the Bay area, an extremely expensive and beautiful place to live. :) Liked the interrogation scene with him and Teyla. Really liked his hang-dog expression after he lost her. And he’s really rather deadly with that P-90. :D

Also liked the call back to the Hoffmans. And loved Carson’s return, but if he turns out to be a replicator, I am not going to be at all thrilled.
This we can agree on.;)


Michael and his plans for Teyla’s baby…what’s the Athosian word for cliché, because that should be the child’s name. I really do not like where this is headed. And Kanaan and the other Athosians are now transformed into Michael’s evil hybrids…great, just great (sarcastic tone). Maybe we’ll also learn that Michael is actually Teyla’s biological father—maybe that’s the bond about which Michael was speaking. :rolleyes:

I wanted to like this episode, but I didn’t. :(
I disagree. The direction this is headed into looks to be good one IMO.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 28th, 2008, 05:14 PM
Continuity is continuing a story right... The Hoffan drug is no longer about the Hoffans and their fight, it's about Michael who happened to stumble across the formula, probably thanks to Beckett. Therefor, plotdevice.


Maybe the Hoffans were the plot device used to introduce the drug. :sheppardanime23:

cabouse18
February 28th, 2008, 05:17 PM
Maybe the Hoffans were the plot device used to introduce the drug. :sheppardanime23:

That could be too ;)

nx01a
February 28th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Agreed on both counts ;). G U I L T Y!!! In order to support this continuity in SGA, give Michael that Aurora class ship we saw in the trailer and let us know through a simple phrase that Michael stole it and now masters the ATA gene and he injected all his zombies so they can fire drones. They could easily use this because he had Carson.
***** 10 sarcasm smileys in here :P ****
Oh my, YES!

GREEN for you!

A bit extreme, but that's the basic idea of just retcon inserting really important details into the backstory that make you go, ugh?
Funny enough, I'd rather Michael had an Aurora than those Travelers and their Space Hussy. [No offense to other Space Hussies.;)]

nx01a
February 28th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Maybe the Hoffans were the plot device used to introduce the drug. :sheppardanime23:
That might be true, but I don't think so. A few SGA episodes have served little purpose overall than to give the team technology. Usually, the tech is used really quickly after its introduction, so quickly as to make its origin episode even more conspicuous for its sole reason for existing. The Hoffan ep is a bit stale. :P
'The Tower' was a plot device to replenish the drones and get new jumpers. 'Inferno' [which I think was a great episode and had the relationship mentioned afterwards] was a plot device to get the Hippaforalkus. 'Harmony' was a plot device to get the mini-drones. 'Irresistable' was a plot device to lose the viewers...

Ltcolshepjumper
February 28th, 2008, 07:20 PM
That's most likely true.
A few SGA episodes have served little purpose overall than to give the team technology.
'The Tower' was a plot device to replenish the drones and get new jumpers. 'Inferno' was a plot device to get the Hippaforalkus. 'Harmony' was a plot device to get the mini-drones. 'Irresistable' was a plot device to lose the viewers...

True.

Mitchell82
February 28th, 2008, 09:15 PM
That might be true, but I don't think so. A few SGA episodes have served little purpose overall than to give the team technology. Usually, the tech is used really quickly after its introduction, so quickly as to make its origin episode even more conspicuous for its sole reason for existing.
True however what Tech in Kindred? Cause so far we haven't seen any.

The Hoffan ep is a bit stale. :P
It ma be old though the Hoffan storyline was added in Kindred for the drug thing.

'The Tower' was a plot device to replenish the drones and get new jumpers. 'Inferno' [which I think was a great episode and had the relationship mentioned afterwards] was a plot device to get the Hippaforalkus.
Agreed however...
'Harmony' was a plot device to get the mini-drones. 'Irresistable' was a plot device to lose the viewers...
I disagree. The mini drones havent been seen since so it was just a filler ep. A good one but just that. Irresistable well I liked it.....:o

jelgate
February 28th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Irresistable well I liked it.....:o

You sir are banned from the forum.

Mitchell82
February 28th, 2008, 09:20 PM
You sir are banned from the forum.

Because I like an ep that the majority hates? :jack_new_anime05:Gee and I thought we lived in a democracy.;)

jelgate
February 28th, 2008, 09:21 PM
Because I like an ep that the majority hates? :jack_new_anime05:Gee and I thought we lived in a democracy.;)

In America, Canada, and most of Europe, yes. But in Darren Land their is no democracy.

Mitchell82
February 28th, 2008, 09:25 PM
In America, Canada, and most of Europe, yes. But in Darren Land their is no democracy.
Well thankfully opinion is not a forum violation.

ShadowMaat
February 28th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I disagree. The mini drones havent been seen since so it was just a filler ep.
Wait three years, then maybe they'll be used again. :P

jelgate
February 28th, 2008, 10:25 PM
Well thankfully opinion is not a forum violation.

Yet

Integrabyte
February 29th, 2008, 02:44 AM
I disagree. The mini drones havent been seen since so it was just a filler ep. A good one but just that. Irresistable well I liked it.....:o

My God you actually survived to see the mini drones? Hee hee, I wanted to jump off a cliff when I saw Harmony :P. Back to the Kindred :


Ingredients:

1. One new baddie bored with his zombies calls Teyla using Kanaan's number.
2. One Teyla with random vissions after so many filler episodes.
3. One random plot burried in the previous seasons.
4. One big cliche with our new baddie: He wants the baby of doom.
5. Horrbile script for one loved character.


DIRECTIONS
1. Give viewers a feisty trailer and attract them by portraying things that are not there.
2. Shove as much pointless information with no continuity as you can
3. Surprise the audience with the loved character.
4. Give this loved character the best line after 20 filler episodes: `...what took you so long?? `
5. Bake for 42 minutes and hope that nobody will notice the huge gap between this episode and the previous related episode.


Serve hot with a bottle of EVIAN :P

SpinningChevron
February 29th, 2008, 05:25 AM
This episode was brilliant, it started off slow but once it got going i did not want it to stop, great writing, Todd, Michael, Carson, Caldwell and Teyla's people all coming together in one episode with lots of twists and turns... Brilliant.

valaCB
February 29th, 2008, 07:37 AM
What a great episode and Carson Beckett is back!!!
I was spoiler free and it was worth it!

Falcon Horus
February 29th, 2008, 08:03 AM
Back to the Kindred :


Ingredients:

1. One new baddie bored with his zombies calls Teyla using Kanaan's number.
2. One Teyla with random vissions after so many filler episodes.
3. One random plot burried in the previous seasons.
4. One big cliche with our new baddie: He wants the baby of doom.
5. Horrbile script for one loved character.


DIRECTIONS
1. Give viewers a feisty trailer and attract them by portraying things that are not there.
2. Shove as much pointless information with no continuity as you can
3. Surprise the audience with the loved character.
4. Give this loved character the best line after 20 filler episodes: `...what took you so long?? `
5. Bake for 42 minutes and hope that nobody will notice the huge gap between this episode and the previous related episode.


Serve hot with a bottle of EVIAN :P

LOL :lol:

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 01:56 PM
My God you actually survived to see the mini drones? Hee hee, I wanted to jump off a cliff when I saw Harmony :P. Back to the Kindred :


Ingredients:

1. One new baddie bored with his zombies calls Teyla using Kanaan's number.
2. One Teyla with random vissions after so many filler episodes.
3. One random plot burried in the previous seasons.
4. One big cliche with our new baddie: He wants the baby of doom.
5. Horrbile script for one loved character.


DIRECTIONS
1. Give viewers a feisty trailer and attract them by portraying things that are not there.
2. Shove as much pointless information with no continuity as you can
3. Surprise the audience with the loved character.
4. Give this loved character the best line after 20 filler episodes: `...what took you so long?? `
5. Bake for 42 minutes and hope that nobody will notice the huge gap between this episode and the previous related episode.


Serve hot with a bottle of EVIAN :P


:indeed: :lol:

Talk about using BAD plot devices over and over and over and over again! Do you think TPTB Recycle bottles and cans on the set as well? ;)

Falcon Horus
February 29th, 2008, 02:40 PM
Do you think TPTB Recycle bottles and cans on the set as well? ;)

Saves time and money, which they then spend on too much CGI.

cabouse18
February 29th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Saves time and money, which they then spend on too much CGI.

:indeed:

Briangate78
February 29th, 2008, 04:18 PM
This episode took an older story and mixed it with a new story arc. I think it was very clever how they used these story arcs to mark the return of an enemy and a friend. I also love Teyla's direction. When you see Kanaan looking over her and is all brainwashed and a hybrid it was just very powerful. The feelings were real and you really feel bad for Teyla who is in this situation. You have Teyla being captured and Michael has plans for her, while Sheppard and Co. race to try and rescue her, and in return end up rescueing Carson, lol. Excellent writing!

-Major Woody
February 29th, 2008, 06:35 PM
For some reason, I expected the planet Hoff to be a frozen wasteland. :confused:

Jumper_One
February 29th, 2008, 06:39 PM
For some reason, I expected the planet Hoff to be a frozen wasteland.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/GARTH20KNIGHT204.jpg

:lol:

ShadowMaat
February 29th, 2008, 07:00 PM
For some reason, I expected the planet Hoff to be a frozen wasteland. :confused:

That's Hoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoth). Wrong series. ;)

Jill_Ion
March 3rd, 2008, 06:44 PM
For some reason, I expected the planet Hoff to be a frozen wasteland. :confused:


That's Hoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoth). Wrong series. ;)

Can't say for sure, but he may have been kidding.

My hubby joked about the same thing.

Hey, whad'ya expect from sci-fi fans? :lol:

Jill_Ion
March 5th, 2008, 04:36 PM
My mini-review of The Kindred I:

I really liked this ep. Nah, I loved it. :) For me, this is what a great SGA ep is. I've seen many comments from people on this thread that said if Sci-Fi hadn't spoiled the Great Carson Reveal at the end, they would've enjoyed it more. As someone who managed to be 99% spoiler-free and forgot this was supposed to be a Carsonesque ep, the Team finding Carson at the end was very, very cool. :beckett:

I was excited from the first moments of this ep cuz from the credits I saw that Michael, Todd, and Lorne were going to be in it. Plus, there was lots of Teyla and Sam. I've really liked Teyla this season, dealing with a very normal, natural state (pregnancy) in a not-so-normal situation (for Earthlings).

Highlights were any scene with Shep (of course! :sheppard: ), Todd's "Highlander" comment, Teyla and Sam's conversation about going back to the planet, finding out Lorne is from San Francisco, Michael's calm insanity, and Carson!!! When I first watched it, even though Michael's people were supposed to be guarding "someone," I thought the Team was going to find a nursery, ready and waiting for Teyla. Maybe there'd be other pregnant women in there? I dunno, kind of a callback to LOST.

Also, the opening scene with Kanaan's "funeral" was beautifully shot. I also thought she'd break out in song, a la Eowyn in The Two Towers. (Yes, I know Teyla sang at a funeral before, but this was different.)

So, overall, this was a great ep to me. It makes me smile. :) <---see?

Sheyla4ever
July 23rd, 2008, 08:00 AM
Hello!
I have a question about this episode and i'm hoping someone can help me.

How can Michael know about Teylas pregnancy? He was the one who had sent her this visions. He must have known about it before. But how long and how does he know? His intention for sending Teyla visions was her unborn baby.
Have I missed something?

kind regards, Sheyla4ever

PG15
July 23rd, 2008, 12:35 PM
Well, if he can reach into her mind and give her a vision, then I'm sure he can find out if she's pregnant or not. Also, he must've known from Kanaan that they had had wild Athosian sex. So, put 2 and 2 together...

Candy88
August 11th, 2008, 04:23 AM
Sci-Fi mentioned Carson's returns in their ad's???

Yikes, how annoying. Not surprising to me though really, it's all part of which I never watch the Sci-Fi channel, I just can't stand how they do things (who shows ad's for other TV shows WHILE your watching a different TV show?, talk about a mood-killer!!!).

Feel sorry for everyone who does watch SG-A on Sci-Fi though. Must have been like the trailer for 'The Empire Strikes Back' featuring the clip where Darth Vader tells Luke that he's his father.

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 09:22 AM
beckett returning in classic stargate style :D

jelgate
March 11th, 2009, 11:25 AM
But classic I assume you mean cliche:P

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 11:32 AM
But classic I assume you mean cliche:P

by but i assume you mean by ;)

but stargate have returning dead characters down to an art haha

jelgate
March 11th, 2009, 11:34 AM
A boring art. It cheapens their death if the characters can return so easily

Falcon Horus
March 11th, 2009, 02:56 PM
But classic I assume you mean cliche:P

Yes, very.


but stargate have returning dead characters down to an art haha

Really? Then why haven't all other dead characters returned yet?

Or...

Why haven't the returns been anything but cliche? I reckon there are much more realistic ways to have a dead character reappear.


A boring art. It cheapens their death if the characters can return so easily

True.

major davis
May 4th, 2009, 06:05 PM
Yeah. Mikeys back!!!

8.5/10

mrscopterdoc
September 10th, 2010, 01:45 PM
I love this eppy. Teyla smacking the guy with the big stick, and then pushing him over in the chair is great. :D

maneth
February 20th, 2011, 09:16 AM
Yeah, never underestimate a pregnant woman. At least not one who's such a great fighter. And yeah, I've been waiting for Beckett to show up again.

Skie
March 21st, 2011, 06:17 AM
Well, it actually was a good idea to pick up the Hoffan drug again, but please why AGAIN Micheal. This guy is just incredibly ridiculous how he manages to pull things off.
I summarize: a) survives a bombardment on this planet in MISBEGOTTEN b) escapes from a hive, apparantly the only one who manages besides the other 20 or so wraiths, c) finds out about the Taranans and has enough resources to build several labs on different planets d) creates those super bugs and escapes because Sheppard is too stupid enough to sweep him up together with Teyla and Rodney e) creates his super-hybrids, which by the way he can mentally control f) gets his hands on the Hoffan drug and refines it g) aquired a hive ship
h) Manages to get the feeding away without any consequences, whereas Keller can't do this, see INFECTION i) Does not only clone Beckett but ALSO his memories with now equipment to do so
WELL AS SAID BEFORE THIS IS GIGA-MEGA-SUPER-MICHEAL

Um, Hoffan was destroyed by the wraiths because they were not happy about getting killed through feeding. If the wraiths are just a bit intelligent, wouldn't they take all the research with them to get a cure or a screening test? Well, you know, some of the Hoffans could escape or distribute the drug further, I'm sure if I can think of that so can the wraith.

Todd hinting to them who is responsible for the dispersal of the drug: "... there can be only one". Come on, if you have something to trade you don't wanna make it less valuable by blabbing it.

Todd has now the research on the Hoffan drug but never manages to get something out of it. It doesn't even get mentioned again.

Blizzah
June 23rd, 2011, 06:37 AM
Mike is unstoppable, if every Wraith was as smart as him there would not be a show, the Wraith would have taken over Atlantis a long time ago..Lucky for us. The Hoffman drug I had forgot about, so it was nice to see it resurface. It makes for a very interesting weapon against the Wraith.

WraithRichard
June 23rd, 2011, 11:13 AM
Todd has now the research on the Hoffan drug but never manages to get something out of it. It doesn't even get mentioned again.

I though they never managed to write the handwave of 'that laptop was destroyed in fighting other wraith'. I mean, as ridiculous as some handwaves get, at least use them.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 26th, 2012, 04:22 PM
Slightly better than average episode.

Now we know where Teyla's people went, kidnapped by Michael.

I remember when this episode aired, SciFi really blew the cliffhanger with Beckett and all.

Tomorrow, the conclusion.

Krisz
September 26th, 2012, 10:15 PM
CARSON BECKETT: Finally. It's about bloody time.

(He stands up.)

BECKETT: What took you so long?

So the Save Carson Beckett campaign got its payoff in this episode. I thought it was quite interesting how they brought him back, finding the poor lonely guy who'd waited two years to be saved.

I quite like the Michael arc, it has a darker aspect to it with his horrific experimentation and total disregard of human and Wraith life. He's a more interesting villain due to his various hangups and a self given right to make people pay for them. He laid a pretty ingenious trap for Teyla, really cruel luring her with visions of her lover and father of her child, only to see what Michael did to him and most of her people.

Lythisrose
September 27th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Joe Mallozzi's Blog Entry (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/09/27/september-27-2012-quinto-quarto-dinner-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-kindred-i/):

Photo of Carson (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1125.jpg)

KINDRED I (418)

According to the trailer that the network ran for this episode: “You won’t believe the last five minutes”. These words were uttered as viewers were shown the deceased but very much alive-looking Carson Beckett looking up as someone says: “Carson!”. My question was: “Why won’t they believe the last five minutes. You’ve already ruined it for them.” It was reminiscent of the network trailer for SG-1?s The Curse that showed Osiris, eyes glowing, blasting members of the team – effectively ruining our end of episode reveal. Which was, in turn, reminiscent of the TV Guide blurb for SG-1?s Solitudes: “Jack and Sam are stranded in the Antarctic”, an episode in which Jack and Sam believe they’ve been stranded off-world until they discover they’re actually been on Earth all along. In the Antarctic! Surprised? No?

At the SGA season 3 wrap party, I informed a glum Paul McGillion that I had a great idea to bring Carson back. It involved cloning, Michael, and a shocking and unexpected appearance by the beloved Scot. Well, in the end, cloning and Michael anyway.

The placeholder title for this episode was “Rise of the Googlions”. Why? Because that’s the title fellow Executive Producer/writer Carl Binder suggested and it stuck. From a former blog entry: “Oh, dear. This is what happens when you hang on to a gag title a little too long. Sooner or later, it makes it onto the schedule, the Art Department starts using it in their design updates, and producer John N. Smith can be heard uttering the words: ‘We should check out that location. We might be up there for Googlions.’ For all of you who have been racking your brains trying to come up with the hidden meaning behind the ‘Rise of the Googlions’ title, allow me to reveal it for you. … ‘Rise of the Googlions’ was nothing more than an inane title Carl came up with off the top of his head. To all those who wasted any amount of time searching the Internet for clues about the googlions, blame Mr. Binder who unwittingly sent you all out on a wild goose chase.”

Matt G
September 29th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Midweek, another ep of Atlantis...

1. It's amazing how many of the details of this ep I forgot.

2. Including that it was a two parter.

3. And the conversations Teyla had with people.

4. Eventually remembered that Carson's return was the cliffhanger though.

Lieutenant Sparrow
September 30th, 2012, 02:08 AM
Not a bad ep.

The return of the Hoffan drug. Also Michael and Todd in the same ep.

Our first look at Michaels perfect hybrids.

Why is it the earth ships always seem to use railguns before they start using the asgard beams? The cruiser would have been destroyed in 2 or 3 shots if they had of.

The return of Beckett. Was pretty shocking the first time I saw this ep.

garhkal
October 2nd, 2012, 02:56 PM
Maybe the Asgard beamers need to get charged up, but the rail guns don't..

jelgate
October 6th, 2012, 10:26 PM
SciFi dropped the ball on this one. I remember us all complaining about the promo for weeks. But the be honest complaining is what we did. If we weren't fighting another we were complaining. Anyone Part I is really about Teyla and by extenstion the plague that is sweeping through the Pegasus. With the Stargates its a wonder this doesn't happen too often. I liked the plague part of this story. I thought it was interesting to bring what at the time seemed like a filler episode and use the plot for an extenstive arc. This is also the episode where I think Micheal lost credibility. He always blames Atlantis for his actions but whn you start commiting murder to 30% of a population I think that defense goes out the window. On the other hand I think Teyla arc (Yes FH its an arc:P) was poorly done. Maybe its due to Luttrell's pregnancy. Maybe it was lack of interest in the writers. Whatever the reason I felt like this story was underutilized. Teyla's people missing has emphasis in Missing and The Seer and then its dropped. As a result I am uninterested in this episode in Teyla's search for her people.

Falcon Horus
October 7th, 2012, 03:10 AM
On the other hand I think Teyla arc (Yes FH its an arc:P)...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/Dragon.gif


...was poorly done. Maybe its due to Luttrell's pregnancy. Maybe it was lack of interest in the writers. Whatever the reason I felt like this story was underutilized. Teyla's people missing has emphasis in Missing and The Seer and then its dropped. As a result I am uninterested in this episode in Teyla's search for her people.

Yet, I agree with this... :)

Cluas
February 23rd, 2013, 11:21 AM
Teyla is a pretty good interrogator :teyla:

Was Luttrell really pregnant at the time, or was it just a pillow?

Disappointing end. Why would some dead guy show up, just to say:"About bloody time"?
Ok I will see part 2 now, even though the ending felt really silly...

Falcon Horus
February 23rd, 2013, 12:31 PM
Was Luttrell really pregnant at the time, or was it just a pillow?

She really was.

Cluas
February 23rd, 2013, 02:58 PM
She really was.

Cool. Thanks I didn't know for a fact, but I was pretty sure I read it somewhere.

:teylaanime03:

Falcon Horus
February 23rd, 2013, 03:00 PM
Cool. Thanks I didn't know for a fact, but I was pretty sure I read it somewhere.

:teylaanime03:

Yes, hence why the supposedly big Teyla-arc had to be revised by TPTW in order to incorperate the pregnancy. Also, the reason why there's suddenly an Athosian in the picture named Kanaan. ;)