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GateWorld
January 30th, 2008, 06:30 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/415.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/415.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/415.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">OUTCAST</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 415</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
While on personal leave on Earth, Sheppard and Ronon learn that scientists have engineered a human-form Replicator -- who is now on the loose.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/415.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Sweetsong
February 1st, 2008, 07:00 PM
Couple things I liked, all the insight into Sheppards background. He obviously came from an afluent family, I never expected that. His brother was a total *$&*$! I would never have mentioned him to anyone either.

How do you box someone in when they are next to a pier, thus the reason the replicator got away.

And was Ellis on vacation? There was liberal use of the Appollo's beam technology but zero view of the ships leader.

Since this ep seemed reminescent of Terminator,Dr. Lee's vat of lava reference was expected. Heh, Ava replicator saved their butts. They had me fooled though I was a bit skeptic about them letting her loose on earth, the virtual reality thing was downright clever.

Malakriss
February 1st, 2008, 07:00 PM
BEAMING! Is the name of the game.

Cap116
February 1st, 2008, 07:02 PM
It was cool to see the development of Sheppard's background. I think we have pretty much seen everyone else's background except his. This episode just proves that you can't go anywhere with Ronon, cuz something always happens.

Pharaoh Atem
February 1st, 2008, 07:03 PM
It was cool to see the development of Sheppard's background. I think we have pretty much seen everyone else's background except his.

and it's about time :)

Sweetsong
February 1st, 2008, 07:05 PM
The past two eps have seen the team a bit fractured. No Teyla either for obvious reasons. I do like the earth episodes, though they never have any interation with what is left of SG-1 at Stargate Command.

I know Midway will feature Teal'C but where is Vala Cam and Daniel? Ok they could be off world and yea the search team didn't spend much time at the SGA, but I guess I wouldn't mind seeing even a little reference to them.

TheGreatLordGeorge
February 1st, 2008, 07:06 PM
Atlantis does earth based episodes alot better than SG1.


Does she know she is in a "Matrix"?

smushybird
February 1st, 2008, 07:07 PM
Who wrote this ep? I liked that the writer thought to give us a scene with Rodney showing his concern for John. Very nicely done. I was proud of Rodney.

I liked this whole episode. Season 4 continues to be excellent.

Was Sheppard's brother older or younger?

AGateFan
February 1st, 2008, 07:07 PM
Wow, I was right it was Terminator 2.

Nice little background on Sheppard....for some reason I thought his Dad was military.

I dont know why little things catch my eye, but why was ronan wearing a watch. I mean I understand they should have him blend in more human like clothes but why would he bother with a watch. I liked his table manners at the wake.

Episode was wholey predictable, saw the "twist" coming a mile a way. Though I do guess I missed the reason for the male replicator and his subsequent flight. Also Bates didnt seem all that injured ...but then I guess if that old guy could so easily take him out maybe its best he not be in the military any longer.

Meh, not horrible, not great just meh....

EDIT: Oh I was pleasantly suprise with the compromise ending for the good guy terminat...replicator. They didnt scrw her over but didnt do something absurdly stupid either.

Xicer
February 1st, 2008, 07:08 PM
I liked this episode, better than the last. One of my favorite Earth-based Atlantis episodes by far, and it was great to see Bates again. I'll admit the story was incredibly predictable at some parts, but still enjoyable.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2008, 07:08 PM
Great episode!

Where does Ronan get his "earth digs?" lol he's always sporting something different. (even a rollex!)

Shep's background wasn't what I expected. His ex-wife was awesome though. Espescially when she was talkin sh*t to him.

And bringing Bates back was awesome.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2008, 07:10 PM
I dont know why little things catch my eye, but why was ronan wearing a watch. I mean I understand they should have him blend in more human like clothes but why would he bother with a watch. I liked his table manners at the wake.

lol guess I'm not the only one that caught it

Alicia
February 1st, 2008, 07:11 PM
I liked the Sheppard background story a lot, too.
But it was a shame Rodney only got this little, little scene. The whole episode I have been waiting for the end, when we'd switch back to Atlantis and get another Rodney-scene to round it off, so I was disappointed when it never came. (Also: I was really disappointed that Rodney couldn't accompany them!) I don't care that we didn't see Teyla for 2 episodes (though I like her, too), but I missed Rodney sincerely.

Briangate78
February 1st, 2008, 07:12 PM
Good episode, better from the last 2! I liked how they beamed him up and let him fall into the Earth's atmosphere, that was unexpected. I loved the twist with Ava being a replicator, nice surprise there. When Dr. Lee's computer went out when he was scanning I figured something was going on with that. So Ava was not bad she was just a replicator built on human emotions.

It was good to get some back info on Sheppard and see where he came from. The ending was nicely done with him returning to see his brother. So overall, a B+ episode. Good action, nice drama, suspense, mystery, and a cool plot twist with an unexpected ending.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2008, 07:13 PM
Atlantis does earth based episodes alot better than SG1.


Does she know she is in a "Matrix"?

I don't think she does.

SpikeBad
February 1st, 2008, 07:16 PM
Atlantis does earth based episodes alot better than SG1.


Does she know she is in a "Matrix"?

The Matrix has her!

idlewild202
February 1st, 2008, 07:20 PM
Eh, this episode was OK. I was kinda bored to be honest, but it still had it's good parts.

Seeing Bates again was really nice, finally got a good explanation of where he went. Glad to see he's not totally gone from the Stargate universe as a character, albeit a very small part still.

Oh man... Sheppard's dad's house.... that barn and arena, oh I want it! Haha, out of the entire episode that was the one thing that really caught my attention, the arena, I picked it out the very first shot and asked my sister "Was that a riding arena?" Then the shot were you could see it and the jumps and the nice nice NICE barn in the back... oh I was drooling. I want a setup like that one... anyway, moving on!

It was nice to learn more of Sheppard's family... his ex-wife, um... wow, that explains why he falls for hot alien women... he fell for a hot human woman to start with. She was cool though, she didn't annoy me at all, I was half expecting her too, but she didn't. Sounds like she is a smart, capable woman. Her and John just didn't mesh.

What else... hehe, Ronon and the food, that made me chuckle.

I liked how they ended it, with the alternative reality thing, until I learned that's what it was I was very skeptical about actually letting a Replicator live on earth. So when it turned out to be an AR, I was very pleased, did not see that coming, I like unexpected endings :)

Oh, I LOVED the CG shots of the Apollo in orbit around earth, those were NICE. 'Specially the one with the sun on the horizon and the Apollo flying into frame from the bottom, that one was nice.

But, all in all, it wasn't a very solid ep IMO, a nice ep, but not solid.

ladyjanus
February 1st, 2008, 07:24 PM
Pretty good ep, better than the last one. Can't find too much to fault this week.

Nice action sequences, great fight between Ava and the Replicator. Would have liked to have seen a little bit more Shep backstory, maybe a nice flashback or two or three, but overall a good ep.

Oh, and it's really nice to know that the Shepherd family tree can produce more than just the one gorgeous hunk.

Mustn't forget Shep and Ronan in civvies. (Gulp) Love a man in a well cut suit, don't you?

ladyjanus

jelgate
February 1st, 2008, 07:30 PM
Jelgate's Two CentsThis was such an improvement from last weeks episode. Quite a bit of long over do development for Sheppard and moderate action from fighting the Earth Replicator. A big advantge was the fact that McKay had a very minimal role in this episode. Don't get me wrong, I like McKay, but this episode allowed the friendship between Ronon and Sheppard to shine. It really shows how much Ronon cares about Sheppard and the unspoken bond they have like in the Atlantis gate room when Ronon tells Sheppard he is going. Sheppard doesn't even have to ask why, because of the friendship that has developed over the years. A long time ago (Letters from the Pegasus) we wondered why Sheppard didn't talk to his family. It has became clear that they drifted apart due to the fact that Sheppard didn't want to follow in his father footsteps. Loved the hostility between Sheppard and his wife. Very interesting to see what had caused them to break up. I laughed when Nancy said she tried to see what he had been up to in the last few years This episode also once again showed Sheppard's dark side. It wasn't as bad as Miller's Crossing, but he blackmailed a scienctist to find out how to capture the Replicator. Speaking of the scienctist, he sure was a moron. Did he really think he would be abl to stop the Replicator. That said, it was kind of predictible that he was going to be killed by the ReplicatorThe action squences were nicely done and showed just how cunning the Earth Replicator was. He took miltiple shots from gunfire and was still able to run away. Even when he was corned on that metal structure, the Replicator was able to think on his feet and jump into the river (I'm assuming its a river). Even though that was predictible (TV is filled with predictibillities) Ava being a Earth Replicator had me so shocked, I had to make an emergency trip to the bathroom. Speaking of Ava, that fight between her and the male Replicator was fantastic. Good Job BamBam. Putting a transporter beacon to defeat an enemy was differently different. But I ask, would they have done the same thing if was human and had the same abilities. Speaking, of that the CGI shot of the Replicator falling to Earth was amazing. Good to see Bates . He still has that non-trusting attiude that he had back in Season One. I also found that in this episode, Dr. Lee was humerous and helpful without being annoying like he was in Adrift and Lifeline Was it right for the SGC to dissemble Ava. She most likely didn't pose that much of a security risk. I realize that she is a Replicator, but she never did anything that was wrong.
*ponders*
My only compliant is that they didn't mention what Teyla was doing. TPTB told us why McKay couldn't go with that nice friendship scene between the two friends, but not a mention of Teyla. Overall, one of the best episodes this season.
P.S: Did anyone see how they gave JF credit for this episode.

joebags
February 1st, 2008, 07:31 PM
It was nice to finally get some Sheppard backstory, after four years, but the whole replicator plot was boring. Long chase scenes and lots of gunfire don't make a good story.

Carter. Poor Carter with her one line of dialogue. I bet Amanda can't get away from this show fast enough.

Bates was a nice touch though.

I would hope for a better episode next week but we are apparently getting lots of Keller, and I can't stand her. Skipping that one. Will shoot for week after next and hope for improvements.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2008, 07:33 PM
I wouldn't say Shep was blackmailing the guy for information. I think "bluffing" is a better word. (IMO)

Crichiel
February 1st, 2008, 07:34 PM
This episode was different in tone from what I was expecting. I read way too many spoilers and make too many guesses! But I really loved the episode overall.
-Loved the continuity with Bates. I had wondered what happened to him
-I generally dislike the roles Kari Wuhrer has done before (John's ex-wife), but I really liked her here and found her believable as John's ex
-I liked the storyline with the Replicators in general. Very cool
-I LOVED that John came from an affluent family. I don't know why, but it was totally unexpected and I guess I just like that most shows have this stereotype of heroes rising from poor families where they had to "Learn that they could be something more!"(to be read using the movie-phone voice guy)
-Short as it was, the scene between John and Rodney was great and also that Ronon just silently went with John, no explanation

So, one of the better ones this season. My only REAL complaint is that I feel like all the episodes this season, the team is fractured. It was such a major complaint people had in the later seasons of SG-1, you would think TPTB would be more conscious of not repeating that. But then again, they have said over and over in the commentaries how hard it is to film as fast as they do, and even more so when you use the whole cast and have to make sure you get all the coverage.

Vala_M
February 1st, 2008, 07:35 PM
Very nice episode. As was said above, Atlantis does Earth-based episodes better than SG-1 did ironically!

I never noticed Ronon wearing a watch, I will have to pay more attention on the second airing.

Sheppard from a rich family, I never would have saw that coming. Ronon goes to Earth again and this time took his gun. The whole beaming people up and down was a little too convenient though. Ellis wasn't shown because of budget constraints probably. We did get Dr. Lee though. I liked the whole "I was on vacation" part. It was his unlucky day I guess. The Replicator being able to be killed with guns kind of felt like a cop out though as human form Replicators were always impervious to Earth weapons. Was it intentional or a design flaw? Earth is getting Neutronium now apparently. I didn't suspect that Eva was a Replicator until just about 30 seconds before they discovered it. Interesting. I was glad that she helped them capture him in the end though. I hate that they destroyed her body and just let her live in the artificial Aurora stasis pod computer. But I guess that's better than her just being shut down or destroyed. They should have kept her in the SGC, especially because she was programmed to be friendly. I wonder if she consented to that or they fooled her?

I'm glad that we found out what happend with Bates, honestly, I found out months ago online but it's nice to see it as well.

And where was N. John Smith's boat cameo scene at? Did stupid scifi edit it out? Joe Mallozzi mentioned to look for him on his blog.

Very cool episode. I still can't stand waiting for "Midway though".

Vala,

jelgate
February 1st, 2008, 07:40 PM
I wouldn't say Shep was blackmailing the guy for information. I think "bluffing" is a better word. (IMO)You can still blackmail a person and still be bluffing.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2008, 07:41 PM
It was nice to finally get some Sheppard backstory, after four years, but the whole replicator plot was boring. Long chase scenes and lots of gunfire don't make a good story.

It does for me :ronananime01:

ToasterOnFire
February 1st, 2008, 07:47 PM
It wasn't great, but certainly better than the drek that was the last 2 eps. I was hoping for more about Shep than what we got and I could have done without all the chase scenes. The fight between the two replicators was well choreographed though. Also: Bates, yay!

Why did this ep feature Dr. Lee so prominently? Rodney could have done the same job, and he's actually a main character on SGA instead of a tertiary character on SG1. :mckay:

Why couldn't the replicator turn into a metal box or something to hide? Is there a canon (not fan speculation) reason for this, or was this a "dumbing down" of the enemy just to make it easier for the good guys?

jelgate
February 1st, 2008, 07:53 PM
Why couldn't the replicator turn into a metal box or something to hide? Is there a canon (not fan speculation) reason for this, or was this a "dumbing down" of the enemy just to make it easier for the good guys?I don't even know if alien Replicators could do that. Besides this one was made out of Earth materials versus Ancient materials

Ancavge
February 1st, 2008, 07:54 PM
Good show overall, I wasnt surprise about the ending, since i thought the female bot at the end, said something about her being in a virtual reality, right before john exist the VR world. And that was a interesting way to destroyed that repl. man. Ronon was also funny, "This food is free right?"

Ruffles
February 1st, 2008, 08:05 PM
Words cannot express how much I loved this ep. OK, I am an unapologetic Sheppard fan, and I've been waiting to learn something about him. Outcast delivered!!!

First, JF does a phenomenal job expressing Sheppard's emotions - the shock at his father's death, his obvious discomfort talking to Rodney about it, his uneasiness at going home, being uncomfortable around his brother and ex-wife, the grief at his father's casket. He portrays all of Sheppard's emotions and still gives him that closed-off feeling. I particularly liked his anger with his brother about the will and his threats to Richard about jailing the girl if he didn't cooperate.

I heard enough spoilers to know about the wealthy background, the brother and the ex-wife. While I still crave more (what happened to cause such division, where did Shep go to college and what was his major, who did he work for when he flew those secret missions to North Korea, where were the rest of the houses he grew up in, what happened to his mom....), what I learned was wonderful. He didn't want to fit in the box his dad had for him. He left because he thought that's what his dad wanted even though it wasn't. He kept secrets because he had to even though it cost him his marriage.

Nancy - LOVED her. Not only was she beautiful, she was smart and kind and seemed to genuinely care about him even after the divorce. It takes someone with a lot of heart and forgiveness to go to the wake of her ex-father-in-law. She was willing to risk her career to help John even without knowing why, but she wasn't a push-over and didn't want anything in return other than for him to be careful. I loved when she told him she empathized now with his inability to tell her his secrets then, and when she told him she knew him. I think she really does (and so few do).

Ronon - I love him more every single episode. He doesn't ask Sheppard's permission to go to Earth. He just packs a bag and goes - even walks through the gate first before John can protest. He doesn't ask a lot of uncomfortable questions, but he's there, checking on Sheppard occasionally to make sure he's doing OK. The buffet scene was hilarious, but when he sees Sheppard at the casket and backs away.... Did I mention I love him?

Rodney - not there much, but a very nice scene at the beginning. I understand from a filming point of view that DH was shooting Trio, but I thought the official explanation showed a terrific side of Rodney. He needed to go fix the array on the kid planet. Quite a bit of difference from the guy who sent Zelenka to do it in Critical Mass. And I love that he recognized Shep was hurting and offered to talk. John isn't quite there yet though.

Replicator storyline - I loved the continuity with Miller's Crossing. The hunt was good. It was great to see Bates again. I hope he'll return someday soon. While Bill Lee was still humorous (the sunburn and that shirt!) he was also competent. Is he part of the Apollo crew now? I didn't see the girl-as-replicator coming. I figured she had been bought off. So good to see Smart Sheppard in action - beaming the male replicator into space for a low-orbit crash and burn, and downloading the female replicator into the Virtual Environment a la Aurora (yea for continuity again!). They totally had me going until Shep disappeared after he talked to her.

As a Shep whumper, I appreciated the fight scene complete with choking and collapsing. As a Shep fan, I appreciated the closing scene with him attempting to reconcile with his brother.

Green for anyone that can post a readable caption of the newspaper article the girl downloaded at the beginning about Mr. Sheppard's death. More green if you can tell me what state was printed on the license plates.

*happy sigh*

dasNdanger
February 1st, 2008, 08:06 PM
I enjoyed the episode very much. Good to see a bit of Sheppard's background - I have a little more sympathy for that Wraith-Killer now. :p

He seems so socially uncomfortable, I felt kinda bad for him. I love it when he squirms in situations like this - makes him very likeable.

The whole thing about the falling out with his father, and the stuff his brother said to him about leaving, and all...well...knowing all that John has gone through since joining the Atlantis team, it kinda hurt ME - the viewer - to hear his brother put him down. I know it's only fiction, but I still felt like yelling at his brother for being such an idiot. I hope - someday - his brother learns of how heroic John has been...

Ronon and the buffet - LOLOLOL! "This is free, right?" Too funny!!

Hubby picked up on the Terminator thing right away - and complained about the whole 'been there-done that' thing...which would have ruined the show...BUT...it didn't, for one simple reason: they acknowledged the rip-off by talking about what would be done in the movies. "If this was the movies we'd dip him in a vat of molten steel, or a volcano..." - THAT saved the episode by acknowledging the connection to stuff we've already seen. LOVE when a show ties threads of popular culture together.

I was almost ready to revolt - AGAIN - near the end, when they were talking about what to do with the female replicator. When they started talking about her working at Stargate, I was like "NO WAY!! If ANYone gets that job, it should be Todd!!" - but then they fixed that, too...so...I was happy.

Good episode - especially for the glimpses into Sheppard's old life. Like I said, makes me feel a bit more sympathetic towards the guy.

das

prion
February 1st, 2008, 08:20 PM
OUTCAST

Just a running commentary as I watch...

* Sheppard showing Ronon ice skating stuff? Boy, the stock is getting low on Atlantis. Time to get some bootlegged movies ;)
* Are Ronon's shirts getting, er, lower?
* The scene where Sheppard got informed of his father's death. It was all in the eyes. Flanigan does such a good job of conveying that kind of angst with just a look.
* Would someone with a high-def TV please screencap the newspapers at RepliAva on Shep's dad. I could not read the headline. Accursed ordinary TV!
* BEST scene was McKay coming to Sheppard's quarters to offer his condolescences. And like guys, so much said, sorta, without saying anything.
* Sheppard waiting to go through the gate and then, zap, Ronon just comes up beside him "Where are you going?" "With you." Jus tlike that. Talk about loyalty!
* Damn, that looked like a pricey rental car but then the entire Greenwich-CT style estate just screamed money.
* Shoot, see, this is why you take all spoilers with a grain of salt. Brother was David, not Graham. Ah, but it was fun to mock the name while it lasted ;)
* You could see the get in the gate winner at the buffet table where Ronon was taking everything. He was the guy grinning like an idiot ;) Hmm, maybe his character thought he was in the will...
* We find out that Sheppard basically sorta rebelled against Dad, and it wouldn't surprise me when he went to college he joined the ROTC and went into the military that way.
* Alas, we don't know why it's so complicated between Dave and Sheppard, but it's all those family dynamics.
* "I told you I had an ex-wife, right?" Honestly, I didn't see any real chemistry between Nancy (the ex) and Sheppard.
* It took me about ten minutes to figure out Ava was RepliAva. She just looked like a replicator. They 're all sorta... thin, young and have long hair ;)
* Ah, Dave is pissed that Sheppard is leaving the wake and snipes about the top secret stuff. I suppose the 'black mark' stuff was known in the family. But Dave asking if he'd challenge the will.
* Skipping past Terminator redux (it was pretty good, particularly bringing back Bates and here's a question - I thought Dr. Lee was married. didn't he mention he had kids? yet he's scoping out bikinis??)
* Wow, Ronon's bulletproof vest was awful short...
* I like that Sheppard figured out Dr. Poole was up to something when he went in to see the replicator.
* So, we found out Nancy hasn't seen John for four years, so the last time she probably saw him was probably after the fiasco in Afghanistan, or before he went to Antarctica (since he said he did 11 months there was I recall). And there's now canon he flew top secret type missions (yes, fanfic writers are now blessed to go wild, not that we haven't already).
* In the car, well, I still couldn't see the two married, but I could see them divorced. Weird.
* Loved Dr Lee's suggestion they melt the replicator down like the Terminator, and then they instead burned him up in orbit like in Mission to Mars (in which Kavan Smith had a small role)
* Ah, the replicator beating the crap out of Ronon and Sheppard and pinning Shep to the wall like a bug, but then RepiAva saves him, but Ronon still attacks him. Geez, he must have been a Jack Russell Terrier in another life... ;)
* The solution to save Ava was pretty ingenious and unexpected. Glad they didn't toast her.
* Sheppard going back to the estate to talk with his brother, so we can assume they're ironing out problems...

Overall, it was a pretty good episode, but I'd really wanted a bit more on Sheppard than on chasing the weplicator around ;) We go tto see what dissolved his marriage (the job, basically, and a bit of emotional distance as well). I suppose if the show lasts long enough, Nancy could promote to Homeworld Security and then find out the ex-hubby is battling aliens in a distant galaxy... ;)

I'm looking forward to fanfic on this. Sorry to see that Teyla wasn't there, but this was no doubt one in which the actress was probably pretty pregnant.

And that's all I can think of right now.

Oh wait, one more thing. The tie. Sheppard's shimmering red and blue tie as he and Dave talked. ;)

prion
February 1st, 2008, 08:22 PM
Oh wait wait, something I didn't like about the episode...

the Horse. WHere was the scene with Sheppard and the horse? It was my favorite promo shot....

the fifth man
February 1st, 2008, 08:24 PM
Overall, I thought this was a pretty good episode. It was nice to get so much more on John now. Where he came from, that he had a brother, meeting his ex. And the Replicator story was pretty good too.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2008, 08:28 PM
OUTCAST

Just a running commentary as I watch...

* Sheppard showing Ronon ice skating stuff? Boy, the stock is getting low on Atlantis. Time to get some bootlegged movies ;)

They were talking about the Will Ferrel movie.

ladyjanus
February 1st, 2008, 08:37 PM
Didn't really notice in the first viewing, but I am so intrigued now by the notion that Shepherd grew up in a home with a horse barn and a riding ring right there at the back door. And horses, too. I heard one whinnying in the background just now. Shepherd must know how to ride.

Horses are not something that either of the Stargates have used much at all. I can only recall the one ep from SG-1 with the Mongol tribes and the kidnapping of Carter and she gets to steal a horse and try to escape. (Short scene of O'Neal on horseback. sigh...)

Would love to see an ep with Shepherd horseback. (Okay, having a little fantasy moment here.... hmmmm ... boots and jeans and a beat up Stetson pushed back on his head ... A'ight, I'm back...)

That was one of the things I liked about "Firefly" too. That mix of old west and sci fi...

BTW — sitting here watching the ep again and I'm noticing the score, the music behind the hunt for the Replicator. Cool... Have the TPTB thought about putting out a CD of some of the music from the show?

ladyjanus

SGalisa
February 1st, 2008, 08:41 PM
aww... nice to see some SHEP story... (sigh) ...but alas, it was merely only a morsel sip for parched SHEP minds! ;)

...guess we Shep viewers will just have to take glimpses into his earlier life (before stepping thru that Stargate for the first time) in drips and drabs... and hopefully get more of his mysterious background before the series gets killed off (and we're all very aware of those network contracts with the fine print at the bottom! grrrrrrrrrr.... grunt!)

I am curious... since we don't know what Shep's mom looks like (yet, that I know of), Dylan Neal as "Dave" has the same height as Joe/Shep, but both are definitely very different (sandy blonde to dark brunette and maybe facial structure, too) as *siblings*...
soooooooooooo ......... is it possible Shep was adopted..? or do both brothers have the same "Ancient" gene, but no one knows that yet, because "Dave" seemed like a spur of the moment idea... (Joe's..?)

I was expecting a little more dialogue over "the will" being contested issue, and Shep coming right out and telling Dave he (Shep) wasn't there or living to fight for their dad's "will" (money).. Shep don't need it! He's got nearly *ALL* of Atlantis and other worlds, too! So much MORE than his brother could *EVER* imagine... wonder what Dave would think if he *only* knew (me thinking jealousy on Dave's part..!).. :p


I did enjoy seeing Ronan get to shine in action, while chasing the rogue replicator (I forget the actual technical name they gave it).



Why couldn't the replicator turn into a metal box or something to hide? Is there a canon (not fan speculation) reason for this, or was this a "dumbing down" of the enemy just to make it easier for the good guys?

As I understood it (and I'm no scientist *g* =) Because according to the story, the replicator was based on nanites (or a repair code), not a block code, thus, it was unable to reshape itself into anything else and multiply as the other replicators that Jack O'Neill (SG-1) and company have been chasing down for years and years... Every time that nanite guy got hit with something and repaired its "holes," I kept thinking of the 2nd Terminator movie with Aaaahnold and Robert Patrick (Colonel Marshall Sumner from SG-Atlantis' "Rising" episode) as the morphing critter out to destroy the Terminator..!! :eek:
It seemed the nanites idea used in "OUTCAST" are in similar sort of technology. :D

SGalisa
February 1st, 2008, 08:54 PM
Oh wait wait, something I didn't like about the episode...

the Horse. WHere was the scene with Sheppard and the horse? It was my favorite promo shot....

maybe it'll be on the DVD... :)
I was looking for it too, but forgot after most of the action went chasing after the nanite replicator, instead...


And Kari as Nancy.. nice change from Sliders. Director of Homeland Security, ehhh, and she doesn't have clearance to dig into Sheppard's request without risking her life and new job position..? Oooo!

So happy to see *Nancy* realized, as Shep's ex-wife, that *whatever* he's involved in, it's very, VERY BIG...!!!!!!! (that's an understatement!) :D


Plus, before I forget, that ending with Ava (female *social* replicator) being put into the Ancient virtual world was a definite creative, end solution... I thought they put her away into an old folks home, or some secret place at (Stargate's version of) Area 51 for high risk folks... ;)

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2008, 09:08 PM
BTW — sitting here watching the ep again and I'm noticing the score, the music behind the hunt for the Replicator. Cool... Have the TPTB thought about putting out a CD of some of the music from the show?

ladyjanus

There's a CD for SG-1 'Children of the Gods' and one for Atlantis 'Rising' but aside from that I don't know.

GateTrek2004
February 1st, 2008, 09:11 PM
Who wrote this ep? I liked that the writer thought to give us a scene with Rodney showing his concern for John. Very nicely done. I was proud of Rodney.

I liked this whole episode. Season 4 continues to be excellent.

Was Sheppard's brother older or younger?

According to the Opening credits it was Joe Flannigan based on an Idea

Night Marshal
February 1st, 2008, 09:13 PM
Having both Dylan Neal and Bates in the eps is cool if you ask me just to have two B5 alum(even if it is The Legend of the Rangers). Stargate has been kinda B5 light over the years good sign for the future.

Lord batchi ball
February 1st, 2008, 09:17 PM
I really liked this episode, overall greatness.

Really good episode for Shep.

When I saw Sheps dad died I was stunned, Shep had a Dad!! Here I thought Shep was spawn of RDAs likeness.

JK


Sheps ex was hot

Sheps brother was an a**

Bates, it was great to see him but I felt sorry for him. The last time we saw him he got the crapped kicked out of him and this he got knocked out by a elderly,overwieght ex-scientist. poor guy

What a great twist with Eva the Rep, totally did not see that coming. really
I also like what they did with her at the end, very good.

Where do they get the neutrontinum form?

justhere1971
February 1st, 2008, 09:22 PM
OUTCAST

Just a running commentary as I watch...

* Sheppard showing Ronon ice skating stuff? Boy, the stock is getting low on Atlantis. Time to get some bootlegged movies ;)
* Are Ronon's shirts getting, er, lower?
* The scene where Sheppard got informed of his father's death. It was all in the eyes. Flanigan does such a good job of conveying that kind of angst with just a look.
* Would someone with a high-def TV please screencap the newspapers at RepliAva on Shep's dad. I could not read the headline. Accursed ordinary TV!
* BEST scene was McKay coming to Sheppard's quarters to offer his condolescences. And like guys, so much said, sorta, without saying anything.
* Sheppard waiting to go through the gate and then, zap, Ronon just comes up beside him "Where are you going?" "With you." Jus tlike that. Talk about loyalty!
* Damn, that looked like a pricey rental car but then the entire Greenwich-CT style estate just screamed money.
* Shoot, see, this is why you take all spoilers with a grain of salt. Brother was David, not Graham. Ah, but it was fun to mock the name while it lasted ;)
* You could see the get in the gate winner at the buffet table where Ronon was taking everything. He was the guy grinning like an idiot ;) Hmm, maybe his character thought he was in the will...
* We find out that Sheppard basically sorta rebelled against Dad, and it wouldn't surprise me when he went to college he joined the ROTC and went into the military that way.
* Alas, we don't know why it's so complicated between Dave and Sheppard, but it's all those family dynamics.
* "I told you I had an ex-wife, right?" Honestly, I didn't see any real chemistry between Nancy (the ex) and Sheppard.
* It took me about ten minutes to figure out Ava was RepliAva. She just looked like a replicator. They 're all sorta... thin, young and have long hair ;)
* Ah, Dave is pissed that Sheppard is leaving the wake and snipes about the top secret stuff. I suppose the 'black mark' stuff was known in the family. But Dave asking if he'd challenge the will.
* Skipping past Terminator redux (it was pretty good, particularly bringing back Bates and here's a question - I thought Dr. Lee was married. didn't he mention he had kids? yet he's scoping out bikinis??)
* Wow, Ronon's bulletproof vest was awful short...
* I like that Sheppard figured out Dr. Poole was up to something when he went in to see the replicator.
* So, we found out Nancy hasn't seen John for four years, so the last time she probably saw him was probably after the fiasco in Afghanistan, or before he went to Antarctica (since he said he did 11 months there was I recall). And there's now canon he flew top secret type missions (yes, fanfic writers are now blessed to go wild, not that we haven't already).
* In the car, well, I still couldn't see the two married, but I could see them divorced. Weird.
* Loved Dr Lee's suggestion they melt the replicator down like the Terminator, and then they instead burned him up in orbit like in Mission to Mars (in which Kavan Smith had a small role)
* Ah, the replicator beating the crap out of Ronon and Sheppard and pinning Shep to the wall like a bug, but then RepiAva saves him, but Ronon still attacks him. Geez, he must have been a Jack Russell Terrier in another life... ;)
* The solution to save Ava was pretty ingenious and unexpected. Glad they didn't toast her.
* Sheppard going back to the estate to talk with his brother, so we can assume they're ironing out problems...

Overall, it was a pretty good episode, but I'd really wanted a bit more on Sheppard than on chasing the weplicator around ;) We go tto see what dissolved his marriage (the job, basically, and a bit of emotional distance as well). I suppose if the show lasts long enough, Nancy could promote to Homeworld Security and then find out the ex-hubby is battling aliens in a distant galaxy... ;)

I'm looking forward to fanfic on this. Sorry to see that Teyla wasn't there, but this was no doubt one in which the actress was probably pretty pregnant.

And that's all I can think of right now.

Oh wait, one more thing. The tie. Sheppard's shimmering red and blue tie as he and Dave talked. ;)

ITA. I say that a lot to your posts don't I? Sorry! :D

idlewild202
February 1st, 2008, 10:16 PM
Oh wait wait, something I didn't like about the episode...

the Horse. WHere was the scene with Sheppard and the horse? It was my favorite promo shot....There was a promo with a horse? I must see this...


Didn't really notice in the first viewing, but I am so intrigued now by the notion that Shepherd grew up in a home with a horse barn and a riding ring right there at the back door. And horses, too. I heard one whinnying in the background just now. Shepherd must know how to ride. That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!! My train of thought went something along the lines of wait a second... he grew up at a house with a barn... with lots of horses..... does he know how to ride?!


Would love to see an ep with Shepherd horseback. (Okay, having a little fantasy moment here.... hmmmm ... boots and jeans and a beat up Stetson pushed back on his head ... A'ight, I'm back...)Weeeeellll.... considering those were jumping standards and poles I saw in that arena... The proper attire for that setting should be english jodphurs/breeches and tall boots with a polo shirt and helmet ;)
Though, I'd still take wranglers and a stetson as well, lol :D

Okay... anyway, lol, I'm a horse nut... I'm not a big Sheppard fan... but now that I know he grew up in a family that owned a barn, that just made him all the more appealing!!

Major_Griff
February 1st, 2008, 10:19 PM
I thought this was okay. I really wanted to like this ep, but it really fell flat for me. There were a lot of parts that I liked, and the entire time I was waiting for when the ep would start gelling for me but it never happened. I think this was the worst ep of the seasons thus far, but compared to the worst eps of previous seasons, that's not too bad. 6.5/10

Leliana McKay
February 1st, 2008, 10:24 PM
Well, that was different. Not exactly what I expected.
Those Earth based episode can be tricky. Often you lose a lot of the scifi-ness. This one had a bit of this feeling until we found out that Ava was a replicator .

So what can I say...good episode. We finally learn a bit about the crappy life of John Sheppard. A rebel rich boy who ran away from the boring life of being what his daddy wanted him to be. Sounds awfully familiar, I guess I have seen too many tv shows or movies.
The feeling is surreal though. Watching John among those rich, snobbish, self-centered people (oups John is self centered too) .
We didn't get to see John/the horse relationship...damn that was my favorite promo pic too.

The replicator storyline was bit weird. But this is scifi so I guess it is supposed to be weird. I loved the reveal of Ava. I didn't see that coming but halfway through the episode I felt something was missing... I was right.

I loved Ronon going all rambo in the warehouse, Doc Lee and crazy lava ideas, Ronon eating at the wake, Rodney (no need to say more).

Like usual I wrote a review on my live journal (http://lelianamckay.livejournal.com/26938.html#cutid1) if you're interested.

LoneStar1836
February 1st, 2008, 10:27 PM
Considering the last two episodes, this one was a definite improvement for me even though Qurantine had some nice character moments as well as some vomit inducing character moments.

I’ve read nothing about the back half of this season other than the vague mentions of there being a Shep centered episode with backstory so I suppose this episode was the only one that had peaked my interest as one to look forward to even though it being coupled with a “capture the replicator” story was a turn-off as well as the mention of an ex-wife. The ex-wife bit turned out to not be as bad as I had imagined (I think I was more scared of what kind of terrible actress they would have play the part than I was of the fact that Shep had an ex...luckily the actress did a respectable job), but the replicator part was as uninteresting as I thought it would be. Didn't see the woman turning out to be a replicator (they actually had a decent actress here as well...I don't know what it is about Stargate and the one off women actresses they hire but I usually end up disliking their acting), though I wasn't really that invested in trying to figure out the course of that story plot...I was just watching the show rather than engaging in it.

Though I will say that the ending (putting her in VR) was a nice little way to end it without resorting to deactivating, a dark room at Area 51, or the ever so stupid idea that the Replicator could be maintained in the real world and not pose a security risk. And I actually believed that last option was the one they went with until the VR reveal. Sorry, but with the dumbing down of both Stargate worlds, I would have not put it past tptb to make such an unrealistic decision in the story. So kudos for the reveal, but it still does not renew my faith in the writing. I still do not like that they turned Dr. Lee into the butt of jokes these past few seasons…I liked his character before he became some goofy idiot inserted for a laugh. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the Shep stuff was interesting and JF did a nice job with it. :) Loved the little character moments, especially the ones with Ronon. I’m so glad that McKay did not come along. I like the Shep/Ronon friendship pairing as I’ve grown somewhat tired of them always pairing Shep and McKay. Ronon at the food table. lol! :D He was so much better utilized in this Earth episode than in Miller’s Crossing in which I thought his inclusion was pointless.

I did not picture Shep coming from such an affluent background and having such a jackass for a brother. Rather weird imagining him having such a background, but it’s not totally off key. Now if they had tried to pass that off for Mitchell on SG-1, I would have never bought it so at least Shep’s demeanor kind of fits it.

Anyway, the episode wasn’t half bad…not outstanding but not terrible. It could have been better, imo, especially with regard to the replicator story, which I found completely dull and lacking, not to mention that I didn’t like the actor picked to play the doctor who created the replicators.

Oh and yay! Bates was back.:) I was ticked that they ever got rid of the character in the first place. For a nobody actor (to me anyway), I like the actor that plays him and thought the character added to the show in season one, even though I didn’t like how the writers always portrayed him.

morjana
February 1st, 2008, 10:57 PM
SGA - SciFi Channel Updates for Outcast:

From the SciFi Channel's Stargate Atlantis site, updates for February 1, 2008:

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/

"Outcast"

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=0419&act=1

* Episode Synopsis

* Episode Photos


NEW Alex Levine Blog update for “Outcast:”

http://blog.scifi.com/stargate/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/trio/episode.jpg

NEXT new episode: "Trio:" During an off-world mission, Carter, McKay and Dr. Keller become trapped in an underground mining chamber rocked by fierce seismic tremors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/trio/t1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/trio/t2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/trio/t3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/trio/t4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/trio/t5.jpg

Trailer for "Trio:"

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=212376

NEW Quiz:

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/quizzes/adventures/index.php?start=1

Adventures on Earth

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/quiz_pic_adventures.jpg

Feb. 2, 2008

Our newest trivia quiz will test your knowledge of the Atlantis team's various (mis)adventures that have taken place here on good ol' Earth.



NEW Video:

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/featurettes/index.php

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/jewel/2.jpg

Feb. 1, 2007

In the last segment of her video Q&A series, Jewel Staite (Jennifer Keller) answers a selection of choice questions from SCIFI.COM's Stargate Atlantis Forum.


Or

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=212830

or

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/featurettes/index.php?Clip=14

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/getinthegate25.jpg

GET IN THE GATE SWEEPSTAKES - The Iris Closes March 14, 008!

http://www.scifi.com/getinthegate/


<><><><>

From the MGM Stargate site:

Unlock the Gate Sweepstakes

http://stargate.mgm.com/promotions/sweepstakes_code.php

The Gate closes on March 13, 2008.

Argosy
February 1st, 2008, 11:20 PM
Shep being highborn explains a few things about him.

All around good episode to me.

Though I did have to look up who played Ava since the shots of her engaging the male Replicator looked as if it was the actress and not a stunt double & sure enough... Emma Lahana (Ava Dixon Replicator chick) use to play a Power Ranger, so the chances are good that it was her and not a stunt lady (for the most part).

While I appreciate the Shep backstory & likewise enjoyed the Replicator story as well…I got to admit that I saw Ava as a Rep coming from a mile away.

1138
February 2nd, 2008, 01:24 AM
The episode tried to cram too much at once. There was the replicator story and Sheppard's backstory but they tried to link the two by having Sheppard ask his ex-wife for help. I understand having to provide enough character material for John, but it sort of leaves the replicator storyline a bit shallow.

I noticed that Ava Dixon / Emma Lahana looks a lot like one of my university classmates. So apparently I went to school with a replicator.

g.o.d
February 2nd, 2008, 04:31 AM
I give it 0,5/5

0,5 for that good music when they were chasing replicator

lostinspace
February 2nd, 2008, 04:38 AM
Guys, I loved this episode.

We had so many plays on "team" and "family" well-balanced action and drama, overall solid acting from leads and guests alike, on top of good writing and music, and FCOL - continuity and backstory! Woot.

A few questions for all you die hard fans out there:

1) Where could I get high res screen caps of the episode (beyond what's available at MGM/Sci Fi)? In particular, has anyone seen a blown up copy of the Globe business article which headlined "Utilities mogul Patrick Sheppard dies at 69" (I think)?

2) Any bets on who's the older brother? The ep left a lot to our imagination (which is good I guess), but I'm inclined to think that John was older, and thus, there was more disappointment/conflict about him *not* fulfilling his duty and living up to dad's expectations.

3) I guess the "burning up in re-entry" was a reference to The Ark, since it couldn't really be past experience in the USAF?

4) Where did those visual reality pods come from? Was that from Aurora, or some other SG-1 episode?

SierraGolf-OneNiner
February 2nd, 2008, 05:13 AM
I overall liked the episode.

I loved the fact that there was no Keller in this episode and that Rodney only had the few lines in the beginning. Imo we had too much Rodney this Season.

It was cool to see Ronon at the wake. Well his line about the food was hilarious. And we finally got to see Dr. Lee again he is just great. They should get him more often on the show. He brings in a new fresh wind and is always funny.

The hunt for the replicator was well done especially the music. I so knew that Ava was a replicator. Her first scene actually screamed this at me. It was so obvious!

I really missed the SGC and Landry this episode. I was also hoping to see Walter again.

It was nice to find out what happened to Bates. However wasn't Bates a US Marine like Colonel Sumner? It made no sense for me that he would be discharged by the Air Force if he is a Marine.

SGFerrit
February 2nd, 2008, 05:50 AM
I enjoyed this ep, very much. I really like seeing Shep getting the backstory, and I like the Shep/Ronon dynamic and the loyalty between the two of them. I thought the Ava-replicator was great, and loved how she came to save Shep and Ronon, and the fight scene was cool. The way they managed to sort out the problem of her existence was very clever, but I still feel sorry for her. Even though she has a world of her own now, it is still all imaginary:( There have now been two great female Replicator characters this season, Fran and Ava. I like that they aren't all evil, much like the Wraith are now being portrayed with Todd, but that is a bit more of a shady area.

I liked Quarantine and Harmony, but I loved this ep, and I now look forward to Trio. And after Trio of course the concluding episodes of the season should be really fantastic:cool:

Noneareleft
February 2nd, 2008, 05:56 AM
The one thing I don't get is that he asked his ex for help, when he could get just about any information himself. I know she was "there" but why risk it?
I know he couldn't pick up the phone and call the President like Hammond or Jack... but now with how far things have progressed and the amount of connections and higher ups that are in the know and pro SGC, I mean he could have just called Jack himself and got the information....


But they had to develop that relationship so I guess that will do.

Atlanis
February 2nd, 2008, 05:59 AM
Emma was great as Avea, and I do hope to see her again she was great,
Loved the preformance and the final costume she was dam right sexy in it!

---
Just remembered somthing form Joe's gateworld interview:
"Well, this person made that short list then, and we're very excited about his/her/its(?) addition to our cast of regulars."

the thing that I am intrested in is: we're very excited about his/her/its(?)
It's a posssability that Avea is the new commander and

Avea :
I guess I'll never see you again

Sheppard:
The one thing I have learned from this buisness is : neveer say never

--
There's also a huge hint that she may be the new regular in season 5

reddevil18
February 2nd, 2008, 06:12 AM
Oh, I LOVED the CG shots of the Apollo in orbit around earth, those were NICE. 'Specially the one with the sun on the horizon and the Apollo flying into frame from the bottom, that one was nice.


Yeah, I loved that...Very beautiful...
http://i28.tinypic.com/8wmkx2.jpg

DuncTK421
February 2nd, 2008, 06:29 AM
This was a pretty good ep. I liked the Blades of Glory discussion, as well as Ronon in the food line. Emma played a good part and really put her training to use in that fight scene.

Also, don't know if it was mentioned before, but I loved the LOTR reference with the volcano and returning to whence it came.

Jonzey
February 2nd, 2008, 06:36 AM
I thought it was a good episode. I have to say though, I didn't like what they did to the repligirl at the end. The whole mistrust of every single replicator is getting a bit old. It started with Fifth, but since then there've been loads of replicators willing to join their side but it always ends the same way. Surely this one, isolated, independantly thinking replicator would be fine working on earth, and provide great insight into replicators. Isn't it bordering on racism? ok, maybe not that much, but we trusted other races before.

Cautious Explorer
February 2nd, 2008, 06:50 AM
Considering the last two episodes, this one was a definite improvement for me even though Qurantine had some nice character moments as well as some vomit inducing character moments.

I’ve read nothing about the back half of this season other than the vague mentions of there being a Shep centered episode with backstory so I suppose this episode was the only one that had peaked my interest as one to look forward to even though it being coupled with a “capture the replicator” story was a turn-off as well as the mention of an ex-wife. The ex-wife bit turned out to not be as bad as I had imagined (I think I was more scared of what kind of terrible actress they would have play the part than I was of the fact that Shep had an ex...luckily the actress did a respectable job), but the replicator part was as uninteresting as I thought it would be. Didn't see the woman turning out to be a replicator (they actually had a decent actress here as well...I don't know what it is about Stargate and the one off women actresses they hire but I usually end up disliking their acting), though I wasn't really that invested in trying to figure out the course of that story plot...I was just watching the show rather than engaging in it.

I agree. After the last couple of episodes I was ready to completely give up on this show, but I did want to finally see Sheppard's back story. What a pleasant surprise. I do wish the backstory had featured more, since that was far more interesting to me than yet another replicator story.

An added bonus was the actresses. Both were quite good. I especially liked Sheppard's ex. I loved that she was shown as a warm and intelligent woman. That's become a very rare thing in SGA.


Though I will say that the ending (putting her in VR) was a nice little way to end it without resorting to deactivating, a dark room at Area 51, or the ever so stupid idea that the Replicator could be maintained in the real world and not pose a security risk. And I actually believed that last option was the one they went with until the VR reveal. Sorry, but with the dumbing down of both Stargate worlds, I would have not put it past tptb to make such an unrealistic decision in the story. So kudos for the reveal, but it still does not renew my faith in the writing. I still do not like that they turned Dr. Lee into the butt of jokes these past few seasons…I liked his character before he became some goofy idiot inserted for a laugh. :rolleyes:


At least Dr. Lee wasn't there solely for laughs. He got to be the go-to scientist rather than the fool that makes Carter look good. I found him enjoyable here.


Anyway, the Shep stuff was interesting and JF did a nice job with it. :) Loved the little character moments, especially the ones with Ronon. I’m so glad that McKay did not come along. I like the Shep/Ronon friendship pairing as I’ve grown somewhat tired of them always pairing Shep and McKay. Ronon at the food table. lol! :D He was so much better utilized in this Earth episode than in Miller’s Crossing in which I thought his inclusion was pointless.

The fact that Rodney wasn't coming along was one of the main reasons I had hope for this episode. I like the Sheppard/Ronon dynamic much better. I always want to see more Sheppard, but it seems like Rodney always has to come along as a package deal. I've grown very tired of Rodney.


I did not picture Shep coming from such an affluent background and having such a jackass for a brother. Rather weird imagining him having such a background, but it’s not totally off key. Now if they had tried to pass that off for Mitchell on SG-1, I would have never bought it so at least Shep’s demeanor kind of fits it.

Anyway, the episode wasn’t half bad…not outstanding but not terrible. It could have been better, imo, especially with regard to the replicator story, which I found completely dull and lacking, not to mention that I didn’t like the actor picked to play the doctor who created the replicators.

Oh and yay! Bates was back.:) I was ticked that they ever got rid of the character in the first place. For a nobody actor (to me anyway), I like the actor that plays him and thought the character added to the show in season one, even though I didn’t like how the writers always portrayed him.

Again, I agree. A little more thought could have been put into the replicator story. Something more than the escape, the chase, the capture/kill. It felt like an excuse for a good chase scene instead of a plot.

I miss Bates too. It was great to see him back. Although the poor guy was made to look somewhat incompetent being knocked out the way he was.

All in all this was a good episode. I had fun watching it. Ronon and Sheppard make a great team.

Sweetsong
February 2nd, 2008, 07:02 AM
Oh, I LOVED the CG shots of the Apollo in orbit around earth, those were NICE. 'Specially the one with the sun on the horizon and the Apollo flying into frame from the bottom, that one was nice.


Now is it really wise for them to park their earth based spaceships in orbit where any yahoo with a telescope can see it? Heh.

jonno
February 2nd, 2008, 07:13 AM
We had so many plays on "team" and "family" well-balanced action and drama, overall solid acting from leads and guests alike, on top of good writing and music, and FCOL - continuity and backstory! Woot.

Continuity & backstory - what have we come to! :p

Yeah, very solid, lots of nice things about it. Not necessarily brilliantly exciting but it was good to have something solid, thought through and well performed. Left with a nice satisfied feeling.

Oh - and nice to see Dr. Lee not being an utter buffoon for once, and actually looking like the kind of mind that would be employed by the secretest project in the world!

prion
February 2nd, 2008, 07:30 AM
They were talking about the Will Ferrel movie.

Ah, thanks. Never saw that movie, but yea, it's an ice skating flick ;)

prion
February 2nd, 2008, 07:33 AM
ITA. I say that a lot to your posts don't I? Sorry! :D

thanks. I slink away in shame admitting I had to look up what ITA meant as I knew it as another technical acronym but not "I totally agree" ;)

kymeric
February 2nd, 2008, 07:37 AM
Whoa awesome terminatoresque story. Loved the neck snappings! Suprised by the ending, but its open to reboot her for a sequal if needed. Im suprised Sheppard has a silverspoon, makes him different from most of the heroes out there. I think this ep kinda cements him as the central character of SGA, but Rodneys up there too.

Oh and the burning up on reentry was awesome! Nice trick on the tag in the knife. Very JasonX in the incinerating in the atmosphere. When i die thats how i wanna go ^.^

stclare
February 2nd, 2008, 07:38 AM
sorry 1/5 as i was bored to tears. im also fed up with no team eps. the dynamic duos of rodney/shep or ronan/shep do nothing for me.

prion
February 2nd, 2008, 07:40 AM
There was a promo with a horse? I must see this...


Not in a video, but a photo

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/wraithfodder/SGA-Outcast/OC87horse.jpg



1) Where could I get high res screen caps of the episode (beyond what's available at MGM/Sci Fi)? In particular, has anyone seen a blown up copy of the Globe business article which headlined "Utilities mogul Patrick Sheppard dies at 69" (I think)?

2) Any bets on who's the older brother? The ep left a lot to our imagination (which is good I guess), but I'm inclined to think that John was older, and thus, there was more disappointment/conflict about him *not* fulfilling his duty and living up to dad's expectations.

3) I guess the "burning up in re-entry" was a reference to The Ark, since it couldn't really be past experience in the USAF?

4) Where did those visual reality pods come from? Was that from Aurora, or some other SG-1 episode?

1 - No doubt the hi-rez image will show up on LIve Journal (where the creative fans tend to cluster). Give 'em a day or so and someone will cap it :)

2 - I think John is the older brother; but man, they don't look a bit alike in any context. Of course, same mother? And what is it in every movie that mom is always dead?? Oh wait wait, that's cuz men are useless without the women around ;)

3 - Lots of things burn up in re-entry, tons of space junk, and with Sheppard watching far too many movies, he's seen a few re-entry burns for entertainment, but yup, "The Ark" was basically his experience :)

4 - I figured from the Aurora although that ship blew up so.... hmmm...



The one thing I don't get is that he asked his ex for help, when he could get just about any information himself. I know she was "there" but why risk it?
I know he couldn't pick up the phone and call the President like Hammond or Jack... but now with how far things have progressed and the amount of connections and higher ups that are in the know and pro SGC, I mean he could have just called Jack himself and got the information....

But they had to develop that relationship so I guess that will do.

Yeah, he could have easily just called HomeWORLD security and they'd have even more classified access. Having the ex-wife access it just brings her into the plot, otherwise, we wouldn't have seen her past the wake. a plot contrivance, really.

And a quibble. There's Bates, who had a severe head injury (subdural hematoma) and he gets whacked in the head and knocked out again? Medically, he should have been in the hospital after that as benig unconscious means concussion and on top of damage already done previously (which got him rotated out of the service) means hitting on head is BAD.

s09119
February 2nd, 2008, 07:55 AM
I liked the idea, but the execution was terrible. I enjoyed the Sheppard & ex-wife scenes more than the A Plot, and I'm really hoping we see her again.

Score: a very generous **

JSPuddlejumper
February 2nd, 2008, 08:12 AM
Great episode, 10/10, best episode since BAMSR'd.

Southern Red
February 2nd, 2008, 08:16 AM
First things first. Major kudos to all the actors particularly Joe Flanigan. He just keeps getting better and better. The scene with his brother was some of the best acting I've ever seen him do. If he ever gets up on the big screen, watch out all you Hollywood leading men. Your days are numbered.

Finally some Sheppard background, just not enough. But will it ever be. I'm not really quibbling, but it would be nice for confirmation that his mother ever existed. I'm one of the few I guess who was not the least bit surprised that he comes from a wealthy family. His hobbies of golf and surfing, his obvious education beyond the basic college requirements, (War and Peace? Most men would have picked something else for a long read IMHO.) just the way he carries himself seems to indicate that kind of history to me. Did someone say his father was a "utilities mogul" and wasn't there a mention of Reading? Monopoly anyone? LOL.

I didn't like Nancy at first, but she grew on me. She seemed tender with him but it looks like neither of them would go back.

The brother also seemed to have mellowed a bit at the end. I wonder if Nancy talked to him and told him that his brother apparently is a big damn hero? *raspberries* Though if I'm honest, I have to say I saw the brother's point. John has been thinking all these years that his father doesn't want him around and holds things against him, loves his brother better, thinks he's a loser, yadda yadda. But it's all not true. The brother has been there helping run things and probably listening to his father talk about how much he regrets what happened and misses John yadda yadda. So I can see both sides. Though somebody desperately needs to give John a real comforting hug without ulterior motives and he needs to let them.

Loved Rodney's support. Guy conversations without words tickle me. Loved Ronon's support. He was adorable in this.

The action part was interesting and exciting. When the scientist, whose name escapes me, confronted his creation, I said to my husband "They're doing Frankenstein now? Whatta 'ya bet he kills him? And there's even a young girl." But that comparison in no way took away from the plot. I also liked the Terminator parts. I enjoy episodes that mimic movies because I love seeing these guys in those roles. And I'm not a whumper, except when it involves dirt and sweat and torn shirts...what? Oh, anyway I liked the whump here, but I was screaming for Shep to kick him in the *****.

I know this is a done deal, but I just have to say to any PTB who might be lurking today that for S5 Sheppard has shown his ability to lead and should be given command of his city. Thank you kindly.

SaberBlade
February 2nd, 2008, 08:17 AM
I must admit I liked the episode a lot. I thought Ronan at the funeral was well done, it was great having Bates back, I'll always be a power ranger fan so having the Yellow Dino Thunder ranger there was great (and they even put her martial arts to use and she improved her accent) plus they were able to develop the Replicator's into something more than over powered Terminator's.

I was a bit disappointed by the actor for the Terminator. At first he looked like Edward Atterton and I thought this was a good thing until I saw more and noticed that it wasn't him at all. I'm not saying Adrian Hein did a bad job, I was just disappointed it wasn't who I thought.

Was it just me, or did John's wife have a hint of orange to skin colour?

reddevil18
February 2nd, 2008, 08:31 AM
4 - I figured from the Aurora although that ship blew up so.... hmmm...


What about the Tria? JM said that it's floating between the two galaxies. Perhaps they just couldn't fix the dyperdrive and just decided to strip it - get all the good parts and that's that...Just speculation, of course...

Zoser
February 2nd, 2008, 08:33 AM
Couple things I liked, all the insight into Sheppards background. He obviously came from an afluent family, I never expected that. His brother was a total *$&*$! I would never have mentioned him to anyone either.

How do you box someone in when they are next to a pier, thus the reason the replicator got away.

And was Ellis on vacation? There was liberal use of the Appollo's beam technology but zero view of the ships leader.

Since this ep seemed reminescent of Terminator,Dr. Lee's vat of lava reference was expected. Heh, Ava replicator saved their butts. They had me fooled though I was a bit skeptic about them letting her loose on earth, the virtual reality thing was downright clever.
This might just bite them in the a$$ some day or possible save their butts.

reddevil18
February 2nd, 2008, 08:36 AM
Okay, about the whole Replicator in the VR world thing...She said that she wasn't allowed to work in any scientific field...Why? Since she's in a VR world and can't harm anyone, why not let her think that she works for the government and have someone oversee her work. A replicator's bound to be fairly clever...Might have come up with something useful...

Wilson3Girl
February 2nd, 2008, 08:37 AM
Loved seeing Bates! :)

Dr. Lee! That sunburn!

The scene between Rodney and Shep at the beginning was awesome: "Wanna talk?" :( Hewlett and Flanigan play so well against each other. I've said before that I love the McShep banter, but I'm also a huge fan of their more angsty scenes.
You could just feel the misery coming off of Shep in that scene and Rodney was so sad for him and so upset that he couldn't go with him---how great that Rodney put in a request to accompany John back to Earth. I'm sure they had that talk later down the line. I like Ronon and Shep paired together but not as much as Shep and Rodney---those two are the main reason that I watch this show. They are the stars imho. yomv.

I did love how Ronon just strolled into the gateroom and informed Shep that he was going with him, and how he walked through the gate first so that Shep didn't have time to respond.

Sorry to see that there was no mention of Teyla. At least they explained why Rodney wasn't going, but no Teyla explanation? Yes, yes, I know that she was far along in her pregnancy, but it would've only taken a second to utter a line about her absence. The team is like a family, and I think that at the very least we should've gotten a mention about Teyla.

I'm in the minority here about John's brother Dave being an *ss. I don't agree. Obviously he and John had issues and then John was gone for 4 yrs. (or more?). Dave said that he'd tried before to get in touch with him but that the air force wasn't always dependable about getting messages delivered. The remark about the money was meant to hurt John. Siblings say awful things like that----especially when they're holding grudges (shades of "McKay and Mrs. Miller" anyone?). He told John that their father regretted what had gone on between the two of them---if he was a real monster, he wouldn't have told that to John. I'm glad to see that they were going to work it out at the end of the episode---too bad we didn't get to be a fly on the wall for that----or at least a part of that conversation. I would've liked to have heard just what it was that came between John and his Dad. I would've happily given up some of the replicator stuff in exchange for more of Shep's family drama, but I'm a sucker for character stuff and I realize others would rather see space battles and chase scenes etc. Oh well.

Did I mention that I loved seeing Bates again?

Wilson3Girl

Jill_Ion
February 2nd, 2008, 08:42 AM
I enjoyed this episode very much. Ruffles did a great review, IMHO, and I agree with much/all that she said.

Still, I'm gonna throw my 1/50 $ into the Puddle.

JF did a great job - again! :) He doesn't have to bawl his eyes out to show how deeply he's hurting. I loved seeing him in civvies. Yowza! :sheppardanime23:

I loved the scene between Shep and Rodney. At one point, I thought Rodney would try to give Shep a hug. There was that kind of caring and bonding. Also, I thought it was nice the reason McKay wasn't going was so he could save a planet of children, even the wacky kids of M7G-677!

Loved Ronon just packing up and going with Shep - no questions, no offers, he just went. JMm looked soooo good in this ep, and I loved it when he was kicking butt. He also was very funny at the buffet table! But Ronon's friendship with Shep really shined in how he was there when Shep needed him, but gave Shep space when he needed to be alone. Ronon rocks!

Dr. Lee was great! Like others, I like the character, and don't always want him to be the fall guy. Funny intro - pulled off of vacation - but then he was serious scientist guy.

I thought from the beginning that Ava was a replicator, but then changed my mind, then changed it back before the big reveal. Like someone else said, she just looked like a replicator. The fight between her and the male replicator was pretty cool. Loved how Shep dealt with the male rep - burned up on re-entry. I also was glad they didn't show a replicator nanite surviving or hinted that there were other replicators on Earth.

I was about to throw a pillow at the TV when I saw Shep and Ava talking and walking at the end. I couldn't believe they had "let her go." Then Shep disappeared, in a non-Asgard-beaming manner, and voila, a peaceful resolution. If they had imprisoned her, she would've spent all her time trying to escape. Now at least, she can have some kind of life.

I was surprised and happy to see Bates. He wasn't my favorite character from S1, but even though I disliked him, I understood his point of view. I'm glad he is doing well. And Dean Marshall looked very handsome in his suit. :) Bummer he got another bump on the noggin, though!!

Actually, all of the men, from Dave (not really my type) to Bates to Our Heroes to the soldiers who were hunting the replicator were all very handsome. Nice eye candy for us men-loving fans! :)

I was spoiled that Shep was from money. Wish they'd used that horse scene - sigh - love that pic! I thought the house and grounds were beautiful. And the flowers arrangements for the wake were gorgeous - very expensive looking! But it did surprise me when I learned his family was rich. Just didn't imagine him so. No bother either way - just an impression.

I thought Dave was kinda being a jerk - even though I give them both some leeway since they were grieving and Dave has no idea what Shep has been doing all these years. Interesting hinting about the divide between Shep and his dad. I did like that Dave told Shep that their dad regretted the break-off of communication. But I wish they had been able to resolve their problems when his dad was still alive. Ahhh, like Methos said, "One of a million regrets!" I'm glad Dave and Shep were going to talk at the end. I think Shep making the effort to bridge the gap between him and Dave showed a strength and growth in character - especially from a man who keeps everything inside!

The ex - beautiful woman. Also, well acted and strong. I give her kudos for attending the funeral. I didn't like that she kept bringing up all of Shep's "faults" from their marriage - so many years ago - but maybe she'd never had the chance to get that all off her chest. Still - she was being a little too much "You were a bad husband!" for me. Maybe I'll see it differently after a few more views. I think there was a little bit of chemistry between them, but more of a faint echo of chemistry from years before. Plus, she's remarried. Ahhh...lost love. I'm glad it wasn't a smoochy, angsty reunion. More to do with business and getting things done, like saving the world!

I was kinda mad that Nancy was mad at Shep for doing his job, which involved last minute secret missions. It's not like Shep was off playing golf with the guys, FCOL! I mean, I understand the frustration of not being able to share everything with one's spouse and the tension that can cause, but y'know, if my hubby doesn't tell me the confidential business stuff he has to do, and occasionally has to leave last minute on business, I'm not going to divorce him for it.

But of course, part of her anger or frustration was probably from fear and worry that Shep could be killed on those secret missions. I dunno. Perhaps military spouses or police/firefighter spouses can address these feelings better.

OK, done for now. :sheppard: :ronan:

Jill_Ion
February 2nd, 2008, 08:45 AM
Though somebody desperately needs to give John a real comforting hug without ulterior motives and he needs to let them.

I'm willing to give Shep a hug. Can't promise no ulterior motives, though! :sheppard:

idlewild202
February 2nd, 2008, 08:49 AM
Now is it really wise for them to park their earch based spaceships in orbit where any yahoo with a telescope can see it? Heh.Yeah... I've always wondered about that... and it kinda bugs me, but eh, whatever. It's a plot hole, they can't really do anything about it unless they want to go hide it behind the moon, lol. Or just take it out of orbit.

reddevil18
February 2nd, 2008, 08:52 AM
Well, they need to be in orbit for all the beaming they do. And, come on...who would believe a guy with a telescope that says "Ooohhh, there's a giant ship in orbit!"?

jelgate
February 2nd, 2008, 08:55 AM
Yeah... I've always wondered about that... and it kinda bugs me, but eh, whatever. It's a plot hole, they can't really do anything about it unless they want to go hide it behind the moon, lol. Or just take it out of orbit.Asgard technolgy can prevent ships from being seen by humans.

idlewild202
February 2nd, 2008, 08:56 AM
Ah, thank's jelgate, I didn't know that. :)

But even still.... I wonder if, when a ship is in orbit, the SGC notifies big observatories and whatnot that they are not allowed to aim their telescopes at X area of the sky were the ship will be flying during orbit. Just in case.

reddevil18
February 2nd, 2008, 08:58 AM
Asgard technolgy can prevent ships from being seen by humans.

It prevents them from being detected by radar/sensors/whatever, but it doesn't make them invisible to the naked eye(with a telescope). Only the Odyssey, with its ZPM, can cloak at the moment.

prion
February 2nd, 2008, 09:50 AM
Okay, the question is solved. See, hi-rez images are up:)

The online newspaper said 'Globe Business'

Utilities Mogul Patrick Sheppard Dies at 69

You can find that cap and others at http://a-pilgrim-soul.livejournal.com/70845.html

So, Shep's dad must be worth a pretty penny what with the way utilities strangle every last cent out of the customer ;)

JackHarkness_Hot
February 2nd, 2008, 10:44 AM
Now this episode explains the Colonel's high IQ, Sheppard's dad wanted him to either go to Stanford or Harvard University.. explains a lot, coming from a rich family, glad to see he didn't become like his elder brother. When the elder brother asked if Ronan was his work colleague, it was funny cos he felt like he was implying if the two of them were in a relationship, which I thought was kinda funny.

Now, I'm not really a hug fan of Earth-based episodes, it's too boring and this episode was kinda okay I suppose, Bates now works for the IOA so glad to see not all Stargate characters disappear forever!

So a primitive form of a Replicator-humanoid is about, to be honest, these kind of stories are kinda done to death. Also, Sheppard always wear those clothes when he's on official leave from active duty. You got other clothes John!

It's unfortunate that Dr. Bill Lee got so badly burnt. The best scene of the entire episode was the Replicators fighting it out, reminded me of the scene between Teyla and Sona back in Season 1 when Atlantis had to be evacuated during a massive storm.

It's kinda sad about Ava's fate but at least she isn't totally dead. The ending though between John and his older brother.. okay.. what does a rich boy got to say to his down-to-earth younger brother that has the best job of the entire universe? Hmm..

8/10 - it was a good episode, kept you on your toes in some bits. Not a bad episode at all.

Ruffles
February 2nd, 2008, 11:05 AM
The one thing I don't get is that he asked his ex for help, when he could get just about any information himself. I know she was "there" but why risk it?
I know he couldn't pick up the phone and call the President like Hammond or Jack... but now with how far things have progressed and the amount of connections and higher ups that are in the know and pro SGC, I mean he could have just called Jack himself and got the information....


But they had to develop that relationship so I guess that will do.

My take on that was they expected someone in the military to be involved. By having someone he trusted (Nancy) pull the information for him, he didn't risk tipping off the potential buyer.


I thought it was a good episode. I have to say though, I didn't like what they did to the repligirl at the end. The whole mistrust of every single replicator is getting a bit old. It started with Fifth, but since then there've been loads of replicators willing to join their side but it always ends the same way. Surely this one, isolated, independantly thinking replicator would be fine working on earth, and provide great insight into replicators. Isn't it bordering on racism? ok, maybe not that much, but we trusted other races before.

Unless my eyes deceived me, the pod John was in was at the SGC. So they got the best of both worlds - replicator girl available to consult whenever they need her (just pop into her VE world) without having a replicator running around the base.


I'm in the minority here about John's brother Dave being an *ss. I don't agree. Obviously he and John had issues and then John was gone for 4 yrs. (or more?). Dave said that he'd tried before to get in touch with him but that the air force wasn't always dependable about getting messages delivered. The remark about the money was meant to hurt John. Siblings say awful things like that----especially when they're holding grudges (shades of "McKay and Mrs. Miller" anyone?). He told John that their father regretted what had gone on between the two of them---if he was a real monster, he wouldn't have told that to John. I'm glad to see that they were going to work it out at the end of the episode---too bad we didn't get to be a fly on the wall for that----or at least a part of that conversation. I would've liked to have heard just what it was that came between John and his Dad. I would've happily given up some of the replicator stuff in exchange for more of Shep's family drama, but I'm a sucker for character stuff and I realize others would rather see space battles and chase scenes etc. Oh well.

Wilson3Girl

I agree with you on Dave. What I heard was a bitter brother who had shoulder all the family responsibility while John did whatever he wanted. We know better, but Dave doesn't. I like what you said about him telling John that Dad had regretted the division between them. If Dave had really been vindictive, he could have said tons of hurtful things instead.

I would love to know what caused the divisiveness in the family, but I doubt we ever will. The writers left it intentionally vague for a reason. And that allows me to use my imagination to fill in the details.


Now this episode explains the Colonel's high IQ, Sheppard's dad wanted him to either go to Stanford or Harvard University.. explains a lot, coming from a rich family, glad to see he didn't become like his elder brother. When the elder brother asked if Ronan was his work colleague, it was funny cos he felt like he was implying if the two of them were in a relationship, which I thought was kinda funny.

And I took it to mean that Dave didn't believe John was really doing what he said. Nancy knew John flew secret missions so I would assume Dave knew the same thing. I think his inability to contact John fueled his imagination in what John was involved in (undercover work, espionage, spying) and one look at Ronon solidified it.

david3565
February 2nd, 2008, 11:10 AM
The odd thing that struck me is why they transferred Ava into VR. Why not one of the duplicate android bodies they recovered after "Tin Man" (ep. 18) on SG-1? They made a point of keeping it in continuity by mentioning it much later (season eight or nine), in an aside from none other than Dr. Lee, that they were planning to use one for hostile off-world environments. It certainly would have taken away the principal danger, which was her nanite construction.

toomanysides
February 2nd, 2008, 11:14 AM
I'm wondering on who authorize the course of action taken on Ava. Landry?

Jill_Ion
February 2nd, 2008, 12:05 PM
Just my opinion, but I saw Dave as the younger brother.

Callie
February 2nd, 2008, 12:12 PM
Did Bates’ injuries when attacked by the Wraith in The Siege result in him having a piece of metal put into his skull? That seems the only explanation for why, when Poole thumps him over the head with a piece of wood, it makes a metallic thunk!

What’s with the new throat mics? Are they NID issue?

Bill was transported up to Apollo from his vacation, yet later is wearing a standard Apollo scientist’s jumpsuit with his name tag on it. Does he take the name tag everywhere he goes; did he have it beamed up specially from Stargate Command; or is it the sole role of a member of the crew to print out name tags to order?!

Kudos to Andy Mikita, the director: when Ronon comes down the metal staircase where the Replicator has just gone, he comes down backwards and aims his blaster through the stairs rather than just running down without looking properly. Similarly, when John comes out of the warehouse, he stops and looks out of the door to make sure he doesn’t run into the line of fire of the approaching soldiers. It’s all common sense, but often a director wouldn’t think to do it.

When Bill revealed that Ava was dead, I thought we were going to go into Blade Runner territory and that Ava wouldn’t know that it was a Replicator, so I was relieved when that didn’t happen.

I really liked the scene in the car between John and Nancy. Normally in a scene like that there’d be some residual chemistry and a hint of regret from one or both of them that they’d broken up, but there seemed to be no trace of that here, which was a good thing.

I did wonder for a while where they got the stasis pods from, seeing as Aurora blew up, but Orion might have had some too, which they removed before they got her blown up too.

reddevil18
February 2nd, 2008, 12:16 PM
Bill was transported up to Apollo from his vacation, yet later is wearing a standard Apollo scientist’s jumpsuit with his name tag on it. Does he take the name tag everywhere he goes; did he have it beamed up specially from Stargate Command; or is it the sole role of a member of the crew to print out name tags to order?!
:lol: Well, maybe they have one just in case he decides to drop in...:p Or maybe he left it on the Apollo in "Lifeline" and went home in civvies...:cameron:

Jumper_One
February 2nd, 2008, 12:16 PM
this was certainly a nice action packed ep. no Teyla or Keller and only 15 secs of Carter and Rodney. I'm glad Shep joined the USAF and didn't turn out like his brother (although he might be a nice person, we just didn't see much of him), even though he could've gone to Stanford or Harvard. one of the best scenes was Ronon asking 'Is this food free?' and after a nod 'Excellent'. that was awesome :P

I totally forgot about Bates and Lee, it was nice seeing those guys again. Shep's ex was ok too imo, I was expecting someone a lot worse. and Eva's a replicator too? I definitely didn't see that one coming although she did act somewhat strange but I would've never guessed this. the replicator fight scene was really cool, one of many highlights. and finally after what sic, seven years on SG it's Dr Lee's idea that saves the day (sort of...). pretty good plan to beam him into low earth orbit, there won't be much left of him. whoa and the end, I thought they were crazy letting her go but alas turns out they downloaded her consciousness - I should've known :rolleyes:

all in all a pretty cool action packed Earth ep and I'm definitely looking forward to Trio :)

Callie
February 2nd, 2008, 12:21 PM
Oh, and my picture wasn't all that clear, but did one of the headlines on the newspapers in Ava's lab read, “Air Force Colonel Wins Second Binder Prize”?! Is there a real Binder Prize, or is it just a nod to Carl?

reddevil18
February 2nd, 2008, 12:33 PM
Oh, and my picture wasn't all that clear, but did one of the headlines on the newspapers in Ava's lab read, “Air Force Colonel Wins Second Binder Prize”?! Is there a real Binder Prize, or is it just a nod to Carl?

Yup, that's what it says...I'm guessing it's a nod to Carl...
http://i32.tinypic.com/20rl501.jpg

Mitchell82
February 2nd, 2008, 12:46 PM
Yup, that's what it says...I'm guessing it's a nod to Carl...
http://i32.tinypic.com/20rl501.jpg

Yeah like the subtle notes on the bulletin board in season 10's Bad Guys.

Mitchell82
February 2nd, 2008, 12:49 PM
Wow this was a great episode. Way more than what I expected. Sheps ex was very interesting. Who played his brother? He looked so familiar. Ava being replicator was a nice touch. Loved how awkward Ronon looked when Sheps ex came over. Great to see Bates again and I actually didn't want to kill him this time. Very good ep. 10/10.

SGalisa
February 2nd, 2008, 01:39 PM
Wow this was a great episode. Way more than what I expected. Sheps ex was very interesting. Who played his brother? He looked so familiar.

That was Dylan Neal. Some people have mentioned that Dylan starred on B5, but I know him more recently from Tv's vampire/detective series BLOOD TIES, as "Mike" -- Mike is Vicki Nelson's ex-police partner, and former boyfriend. Mike is a natural skeptic, too, of all things supernatural -- which includes *vampires*... (which is what Mike's competition in Vicki's choice for crime-fighting partners and her latest *boyfriend* is on Blood Ties... Mike is very jealous... *snicker!*..)


... just waiting for "Dave" to come back in a future SG-Atlantis episode to hear about the Wraith! *grin!!* :D
"*agh!!! vampires!!!* ...so John, how'd *you* get mixed up with them..???" :p

DanielleG
February 2nd, 2008, 02:01 PM
Now is it really wise for them to park their earch based spaceships in orbit where any yahoo with a telescope can see it? Heh.


I was watching SG-1 Yesterday and the episode "Fair Game" was on and Oneil wondered why the Asguard had his ship over earth, because Satalites and stuff can pick it up, well Thor (The Asguard) said that their technology will keep him from being detected. I am guessing the Apollo has the same technology.

freetoken
February 2nd, 2008, 02:04 PM
415 was an engaging enough episode... one of the better ones this season I think, certainly better than the previous. The practical, life on Earth episodes allow the actors more time to actually, you know, act... rather than just shoot up spacecraft.

Linzi
February 2nd, 2008, 02:09 PM
Ok. So I've had a busy day and am tired!

But, I loved this! It didn't disappoint. This is a wonderful episode, IMO.

Kudos to AM and of course, to Joe Flanigan. Sheppard deserved this episode and it didn't disappoint. I'm a very happy Sheppard fan tonight. :)

Ruffles
February 2nd, 2008, 02:09 PM
Kudos to Andy Mikita, the director: when Ronon comes down the metal staircase where the Replicator has just gone, he comes down backwards and aims his blaster through the stairs rather than just running down without looking properly. Similarly, when John comes out of the warehouse, he stops and looks out of the door to make sure he doesn’t run into the line of fire of the approaching soldiers. It’s all common sense, but often a director wouldn’t think to do it.

I noticed that too. I thought it was such a Ronon thing to do. I wonder who actually thought of it. Good job to all involved.


Yup, that's what it says...I'm guessing it's a nod to Carl...
http://i32.tinypic.com/20rl501.jpg

That is awesome.

P-90_177
February 2nd, 2008, 02:38 PM
Well i just saw this ep and I think it was brilliant. SG-1 alawys made some great episodes when they were based on Earth and SGA seems to be able to do the same. Quite diferent to what we're used to in fact. Good to see some more about sheps past.

retiredat44
February 2nd, 2008, 02:57 PM
does Sheppard know his ex-wife is a Slider? :lol:

P-90_177
February 2nd, 2008, 03:01 PM
does Sheppard know his ex-wife is a Slider? :lol:

erm.....is she?:S

kymeric
February 2nd, 2008, 03:20 PM
erm.....is she?:S

Is she the one who replaced the little chick?

SaberBlade
February 2nd, 2008, 03:44 PM
Is she the one who replaced the little chick?

Yes she is.

prion
February 2nd, 2008, 04:19 PM
Did Bates’ injuries when attacked by the Wraith in The Siege result in him having a piece of metal put into his skull? That seems the only explanation for why, when Poole thumps him over the head with a piece of wood, it makes a metallic thunk!.

Don't think so. And even if he had a metal plate in his skull, you wouldn't get that sound. However, Bates would probably be dead as people who sustain serious head injuries are told to avoid future head injurires, as they could easily kill them.

justhere1971
February 2nd, 2008, 04:42 PM
thanks. I slink away in shame admitting I had to look up what ITA meant as I knew it as another technical acronym but not "I totally agree" ;)

Do you know how many times I have to look up all the acronyms around here? :D

Oh I saw Dave as the older brother -- for whatever reason. Also, can I offer Shep a hug too please? No ulterior motive, promise ;)

Jumper_One
February 2nd, 2008, 04:44 PM
Do you know how many times I have to look up all the acronyms around here? :D

Oh I saw Dave as the older brother -- for whatever reason. Also, can I offer Shep a hug too please? No ulterior motive, promise ;)

yeah right :rolleyes: :P

Dena Jo
February 2nd, 2008, 06:29 PM
Re: the ex-wife, I *loved* the fact that her coloring was similar to Teyla's...

Krichton
February 2nd, 2008, 06:45 PM
I'm a little disappointed with what they did with Eva. Considering Atlantis is at war with the replicators she would have been able extremely valuable to them. Maybe even as a team member. She would have been like Data on TNG :)

nx01a
February 2nd, 2008, 07:21 PM
I think Atlantis believes the replicator threat to be over, but they're obviously cautious and would never allow a replicator to run free on the base, much less be put on a team to watch others' backs.

An enjoyable episode. John's a poor lil rich boy, eh? His brother's comment about the will doesn't seem as evil once you listen to the rest of his side of it: John never contacted them and now has suddenly turned up, perhaps with a change of heart/financial sense. The brother's looking out for the best interest of the company and employees. Yes, and himself. Nice to see he wasn't entirely greedy or ruthless and that John was at fault also.

I had forgotten about Bates. Disliked him, hoped he had died earlier but nooooo... he's back for more 'sci-fi knocked unconscious but no brain damage' fun. Someone, put him out of my misery.

Ava being a replicator... I actually saw that one coming. When she mentioned how the professor was like a father to her, I think something clicked and I was just waiting for it. I would have probably shut her down and dropped her from low Earth orbit, considering how this consciousness-in-computer thing lends itself so easily to taking over surrounding technology at the first chance. Who knows what sub-programming she's got going on in there? I'm also a bit skeptical about whether or not Earth-level technology could actually make a human-form replicator. The Ancients/Asurans had that special table. Exactly how did we do it? Let loose some 'make yourself into a human male'-programmed nanites onto 200lbs of neutronium?
Despite all of the above arguments... I WANT MORE FRAN!!!!!!

John's ex. Mmm.
Rodney and John. Aww.
Lee's sunburn. Eww.

Not sure I like the new cgi 304.

I hope more mention of this mystery 'buyer' comes up again. Another 'evil' person within the black ops Stargate world? And a colonel to boot. Wonder if it's Carter? Oooh. :P A 'trio' of Earth-based replicator stories, perhaps? Even a trilogy? :P

Despite being played for comic effect again, it's nice to see Dr. Lee actually do something meaningful that doesn't require Carter being there. And what was the point of Carter being in this episode for 30 seconds? To fulfill contractual obligations?

Nice episode, good to see tptb listening to the actors who play these characters and fleshing out their histories more. I remember reading somewhere that tptb didn't use Flanigan's ideas about his character in his backstory, but obviously they used them here. I doubt that any other actor on the show except Hewlett or Tapping has the clout to actually get them to do that, though. Here's to more character development amidst the space battles and 'splosions!

jelgate
February 2nd, 2008, 07:24 PM
I'm a little disappointed with what they did with Eva.?* Considering Atlantis is at war with the replicators she would have been able extremely valuable to them.?* Maybe even as a team member.?* She would have been like Data on TNG :)As far as Atlantis knows, the Asurans have beem neutralizied

nx01a
February 2nd, 2008, 07:28 PM
Okay, the question is solved. See, hi-rez images are up:)

The online newspaper said 'Globe Business'

Utilities Mogul Patrick Sheppard Dies at 69

So, Shep's dad must be worth a pretty penny what with the way utilities strangle every last cent out of the customer ;)

If John now owns all the utilities, who owns all the trains? I bet Rodney does.:mckay:

Chezlee
February 2nd, 2008, 07:49 PM
I like this episode I give it a 7 out of 10. It was nice to see some Shepperd background and I think it supports his character. I thought that Ava seemed really forced in her techobabble in the beginning, but I guess it made sense later on when I found out she was a replicator. That was kinda predictable though, my mom was watching with me and she said that she was a repicator when she first showed up and we have never seen previews.

Cool effect, the bad replicator burning up in reentry that was awesome :) and I thought it was pretty neat how they put her in the virtual environment,

Killdeer
February 2nd, 2008, 07:55 PM
Finally watched Outcast. Don't really have a lot to say at the moment - I'm kinda tired. Maybe I'll have more to say after I rewatch. But I liked it - I thought it was a good episode. I think it raised more questions than it answered though. I was hoping that we would find out more about just what happened between Sheppard and his father, what was so bad that he would totally write them off, so much so that he wouldn't even send a message in Letters from Pegasus. And that question didn't get answered. As I feared, this was more about the action/adventure, chasing the replicator, and Shep's backstory was just a little bit of filler here and there, not the focus.

I hope we get to come back to it, and get some more answers later. Because as backstory goes, I was rather disappointed. We know more about why Rodney and Jeannie didn't speak for so many years than why Shep broke ties with his family. We got just enough to be tantalizing, but not enough to answer any questions at all. :(

I think we can safely say that the fan supposition that Shep was in special ops is unofficially confirmed with this ep. I liked Nancy well enough. She does look an awful lot like Chaya to me though. Maybe that's why Shep was so taken with Chaya when they met. :)

I liked the scene where Rodney came to talk to Shep. That was nice, and Ronon just showing up to go with Shep was awesome.

While I wished they'd have spent more time on Shep's backstory rather than the replicator, that story was itself well put together, and I probably wouldn't have had an issue with it had it been its own separate episode. Or at least if we'd gotten more details on Shep's history. I was unfortunately spoiled about Ava being a replicator, but that was well done I thought, and I was sad that she was dismantled in the end. I wonder if we'll see her again in some form. I hope we don't do the cliche of her coming back to get revenge - that was done to death with Fifth (I HATED Fifth).

It was good to see Dr Lee again, and Bates. I kept thinking that this would have been a good place to drop Ford's name, but unfortunately no such luck.

Umm...guess that's all my incoherant ramblings for the moment. :o

Vapor
February 2nd, 2008, 08:00 PM
Pretty good one, I have to say. Easily my favorite ep since "Be All My Sins Remember'd."

It's an ep that we seriously should have had a long time ago- one that gives us some backstory and history to Sheppard's character, who has always been such a background-free kind of presence, which bugged me.

This ep was filled with guest stars from other shows I've enjoyed, including Shep's brother Dawson's Creek), his ex-wife (Sliders), and Eva (Power Rangers). They all did pretty well in their respective roles, I think.

Nice to see Bates return, after disappearing toward the end of season one. I find it amusing that he ended up working for the IOA, which has been a constant thorn in the sides of pretty much every main character in the franchise for a long time now. Since, ya know, he was doing that back when he was an officer on Atlantis.

The story overall was cool, though I think it might have moved just a little bit too slowly. I dunno. The pacing just felt like it could have been tighter in some of the family scenes. It felt like they were reaching for a certain degree of authenticity, but it didn't really work 100% all the time. Leave the pockets of empty space to Galactica. They're so good at it.

Replicator on the run on Earth. This right here is just plain fun times, kids. The action was great. Especially after Eva is revealed to also be a Replicator and started kung-fuing the other guy. Loved it. And I'm usually a bit dissapointed by physical combat on this show.

The method of killing the Replicator was cool. Although I could have done without the movie referrence. I'm sorrry, I know they do this all the time, but I will almost never like it. Especially when it actually solves a problem within the show. :/

Scrapping Eva was kinda sad. Knowing Shep's history, I half-expected one or both of them to try to Kirk it up towards the end there, but it just wasn't in the cards this time, I guess. Which I suppose it good, cuz... yeah.

All in all, it was a good ep. At least in the better half of episodes this season that have aired so far. WAY more interesting to me than last week's... display.... ugh....

"Outcast" gets an A. Development. Action. Drama. Brief Comedy. It's all I really need.

PG15
February 2nd, 2008, 09:31 PM
This was a facinating episode. In many respects, it's very different from your typical Atlantis fare, and that's what made it enjoyable for me. Season 4, so far, has been extraordinary, and this episode just adds to it even more.

Alan McCullough created a very tight script. Every scene was relevant, and the dialogue was very smooth. For those scenes where Shep, Ronon, Lee, and Bates were talking about the situation, I found the continous flow of words that ultimately led to action a very nice touch on the part of the writer and the actors. It felt very much like they weren't being overwhelmed, and sometimes it's nice to feel like our heroes have a handle on things.

Speaking of Bates, it was nice to see him return! The fact that he's now involved with the ever-present IOA gives him a much greater chance of future visits, which I'm looking foward to. I liked very much his entrance, especially the fact that he was still showing a lot of respect towards Shep.

But really, the number 1 thing that set this episode apart from all the others is that, for me, the character info didn't seem tacked on. A lot of times in past Stargate episodes, when there is a lengthy scene featuring info on a character's past, it feels very expositional. You are basically told straight out that this character suffered this in the past, or he lost something when he was a kid, etc, when in reality, noone would express all of these hidden facts about himself this easily. Outcast offered a great amount of info on Sheppard, but it did it very gradually and subtly. At no time did I feel uncomfortable at being spoonfed info. I suppose you can attribute that to the fact that we didn't actually get that much info to begin with, but what they did offer, coupled with the Sheppard we know, offered a very good picture of what Shep's past was like. This will require some thinking.

I guess it's not too hard to figure out that I loved the scenes where Shep met with his family. Dylan Neal did a great job portraying Dave, a man who seems to be on the verge of ranting to John about what his absence has cost the family, and especially his father, but held it back, given the situation. Kari Wuhrer, in a similar vein, did a great job as well. Their first conversation was excruciatingly awkward...just the way I like it. Again, going back to the subtle/not-expositional way of character development, I gotta say that the slow revealing of why John's marriage fell apart and how Nancy is now reflecting about her own feelings made it very realistic. The scene in Central Park, 5 minutes away from where I live by the lake was marvelous. Once again, a normal Stargate scene like this would've involved Nancy going on and on about why their marriage broke apart, with very little to do with the plot at hand. Instead, Shep's "final straw that broke the camel's back" favor finally made her release all of that pent-up thoughts. It was great how she mirroed Dave's "typical" line.

But really, the star of the episode, and the person who really got to me, was Sheppard. This was some of the best stuff Joe Flanigan has ever done, IMHO. The initial scene, when he found out that his father died, with the usual, subtle facial movements that he is SO good at, really hit me hard just how disturbed he was at this news. Then, the McKay-Sheppard scene (I have learned not to use the "/" ;)), which also floored me. Rodney had a constant..."pained" expression on his face, and you just know that he's trying so very hard not to accidentally say something stupid, which, as you know, happens often. A supporting Rodney is virtually unheard of, so this was a treat. At the same time, Joe delivered a very subdued performance, except for that one part where he had to remind Rodney that he's "fine". The face he made right before he said it was...well, hard to describe, but very impacting.

I've always been facinated by Sheppard, and this episode was the perfect vehicle to drive that facination even further. It really showed what exactly it is that made him tick, even though the info wasn't delivered to us. The scenes set during the Wake was...mind-boggling, because it was hard to figure out exactly what he was thinking, which was the point. Here is a man that was obviously trying to hide his feelings, as he's always done. And why not? Evidently his father was never satisfied with him, so why show any feelings towards the man? He's just going to brush you away. I loved that. His little talk with Ronon right before Nancy came was certainly enlightening, and fully deserving of the title of "Outcast". It can be no more obvious, the way he described all the people that were at the wake, that this is definitely not a place where he belonged.

Lastly, there was that, again, subtle moment when he had to leave. Dave releases some of his anger, and Shep releases some of his own. But, just as he was about to leave, he turns back a little. That was powerful, at least for me. What was he going to do? His final line sounded...well, pretty final, so what else was there to say? Obviously he had something to get off of his chest, which is why he went back to Dave at the episode's end...so yeah, definitely worth a thought.

Now that I've let my thoughts flow as I'm writing this, I've realized that this episode handled the character drama a lot more maturely than your typical Stargate fare. Perhaps it was the fact that it was a very serious situation, or the fact that the character stuff was based in the real, and not mixed with any bits of scifi (the scifi stuff came later), I don't know, but in terms of a character dealing with issues, this was one of the best episodes.

Heck, I was all ready to give it a 9, but I think I'll give it a 10 instead...but I'm not quite done yet.

Shifting gears to the action bits...once again, LOVED IT. I gotta give a few dozen thumbs up for Joel's score in this one. Very different, but AWESOME. I loved the electronic vibes I was getting, especially during the initial run-in with the replicator. It was fast, it was bombastic, and it was melodious, in that it wasn't your typical action sequence music, where it would be all about the quick beats, with very little actual music going on. This was different; it actually had a running (ha! Pun!) theme in the background as we get beat after beat after beat. So yeah, LOVED THE MUSIC. JOEL, YOU AWESOME.

The action itself was equally spectacular. Again, it was fast, with many cutting-between-scenes and characters. It was very much a chase, and the editing and direction made it that much more exciting. The fight sequence at the end between Ava and...Adem (Adem <-> Adam, Ava <-> Eve...no? Well, I'm gonna use it anyway) was second only to the Shep-Shep fight in Doppleganger. I love fights where the camera is kept moving, but in smooth motions, so that initial arc around the fighters was very nicely done. Very epic. Props to BamBam!!

Oh, and loved how Adem first woke up, his eyes had to "adjust" to become eyes. Very creepy.

Now, Ava...she's hot. :D I thought her actress portrayed her very well, very likable, very innocent, and I'll tell you now, I did not see the first twist coming, at all. Although, she did kind of remind me of Fran after it was revealed, so I guess it all works out.

And that end! I thought, when Shep mentioned that Bill's idea was good, that they were going to fully do an homage (;)) to T2 and lure Adem to a smelting factory or something. But man, that solution came out of nowhere, and I loved it. :D

So yeah, the twists. Wow...ok, these were NICE. I knew something was up during the scene right before the reveal; that was pretty obvious, with the long focus on Ava doing the typical "I've got something to hide" look...but, of course, when the twist was revealed, I didn't see it coming at all. Actually, given that look she gave Adem when he was about to attack Poole (sp?), I thought that she might have liked him...like, like like him. But nope, totally different. The second twist, however, was even huger! Obvious I thought that that was the end of Ava, that she will just be watched at all times while she begins a normal life. Then, when they stopped the camera and just shot Shep whole-bodied, I thought, for a mad moment, that he was going to get beamed up (which would've been stupid, obviously). When he disappeared, I was...blown away, because I thought he had engaged a Sodan cloaking device...then WOAH!! AURORA PODS!! That was...yeah, amazing, I thought.

And this gives a perfect opportunity for her to return! We know the Asurans had the tech to replicate someone whose consciousness was stored in the collective so...who knows. We'll see.

Oh, and I gotta give it up to Mark Savela and his team for those shots of the Apollo in orbit. They were stunning, and different from the usual stock footage. The one shot with the Apollo heading for a sunrise was just...desktop wallpaper material. ;)

Hehe, loved "sunburned and peeling Lee". I wonder what happened...did they actually put that make up on Bill Dow just for this joke, or did he really get sunburned? Hmmm...gotta ask JM about this.

Altogether, an exhilarating action-adventure story that blew my mind...twice, coupled with a magnificent, mature, and subtle character study of John Sheppard with a star line-up of guest stars that I would love to have back at a future time. The things I've learned here about our lead character truly reveals why he is the way he is, that, even when amongst friends and family, he sometimes feel like an Outcast.

Score: 10/10

P-90_177
February 2nd, 2008, 09:36 PM
You know i've been thinking. Obviously Shep hasn't been left the company in his dads will. That was most likely daves. It just seemed like Dave was a business man that was following in his dads footsteps....But dave also said that their dad regretted what happend between him and shep so obviously he wasn't left out of the will.....So............what do you think shep got? A nice little inheritance perhaps?

Quinn Mallory
February 2nd, 2008, 11:03 PM
I know this probably doesn't say much, but this is probably my favorite Earth-based episode for both SG-1 and SGA. I thought the character development of Sheppard were quite good (although somewhat expected...everyone who is willing to give up their family to live off-world has either no family or has been an outcast in his/her own family). I liked the Kari Wuhrner character despite me having some personally mix reaction to her from her slider days (hated her character there for the most part). Her extra interactions with Sheppard were good despite being very contrived. What's also contrived was how Ava saved Sheppard although it was an interesting end for that character at the end. It was also quite good to see Bates back again.

One more piece of nitpick, does this counts as one of Amanda's 14 (or so) episodes for the season? Particularly with the recent news about season 5, I was hoping to see more AT before the season is over.

PG15
February 2nd, 2008, 11:07 PM
Yeah, this episode counts as part of that. However, it also means that she will be in every episode from here on out.

Linzi
February 3rd, 2008, 02:24 AM
I know this probably doesn't say much, but this is probably my favorite Earth-based episode for both SG-1 and SGA. I thought the character development of Sheppard were quite good (although somewhat expected...everyone who is willing to give up their family to live off-world has either no family or has been an outcast in his/her own family). I liked the Kari Wuhrner character despite me having some personally mix reaction to her from her slider days (hated her character there for the most part). Her extra interactions with Sheppard were good despite being very contrived. What's also contrived was how Ava saved Sheppard although it was an interesting end for that character at the end. It was also quite good to see Bates back again.

One more piece of nitpick, does this counts as one of Amanda's 14 (or so) episodes for the season? Particularly with the recent news about season 5, I was hoping to see more AT before the season is over.
I have to agree with you here.

I've never enjoyed an Earth episode so much. I thought this was so well done.

I didn't see Sliders with Kari in it, so I can't comment on her in that, but I did like her as Nancy. I felt Nancy was played just right, and she was a woman with a brain, ambition and who was beautiful too. She was a worthy ex for Shep, IMO.

PG - I really loved your review. If I hadn't have had a little too much bubbly last night, I'd comment and agree with it all. However, my head is pounding a little too much! :eek: Great thoughts though and articulately put. :)

fammann
February 3rd, 2008, 05:08 AM
I realy liked that ep. I think season four is getting better and better.
Things I liked most:

- Shep backstory. A lot of his behavior makes sense now. Like when he is back on earth (or not realy) in that season 1 ep. His behavior felt wrong to me for the soldier type that I thought he was. But now it makes perfect sense.

-The MUSIC. That was the best music on SGA ever. When they are chasing that replicator. This analog synth sounds. Very unusual for SGA but great. I was getting a bit bored with the music. All the heroic ochestra stuff was getting on my nerves. So that was a nice change in style.

- Loved the character stuff with ronan and mckay. (Not them together. Each of them with shep).

Negative:
It's not realy negativ but I'm hoping we soon get a team episode. But with rachel being pregnant it's not possible at the moment. I'm just starting to miss that dynamic.

Edit: I also liked the dynamic between shep and his ex. Hope we see her again.

P-90_177
February 3rd, 2008, 05:10 AM
-The MUSIC. That was the best music on SGA ever. When they are chasing that replicator. This analog synth sounds. Very unusual for SGA but great. I was getting a bit bored with the music. All the heroic ochestra stuff was getting on my nerves. So that was a nice change in style.



I thought the music sounded like it should be from a bond movie in places. :D

Linzi
February 3rd, 2008, 05:28 AM
I realy liked that ep. I think season four is getting better and better.
Things I liked most:

- Shep backstory. A lot of his behavior makes sense now. Like when he is back on earth (or not realy) in that season 1 ep. His behavior felt wrong to me for the soldier type that I thought he was. But now it makes perfect sense.

-The MUSIC. That was the best music on SGA ever. When they are chasing that replicator. This analog synth sounds. Very unusual for SGA but great. I was getting a bit bored with the music. All the heroic ochestra stuff was getting on my nerves. So that was a nice change in style.

- Loved the character stuff with ronan and mckay. (Not them together. Each of them with shep).

Negative:
It's not realy negativ but I'm hoping we soon get a team episode. But with rachel being pregnant it's not possible at the moment. I'm just starting to miss that dynamic.

Edit: I also liked the dynamic between shep and his ex. Hope we see her again.
I do know what you mean, and I'm glad Ronon was with Sheppard here. I love the team dynamic too, but understand about Rachel not being available.

I really love Outcast. The more I see it the more I like it and the more I understand Sheppard. It was good that the backstory fitted in really well with the replicator plot. The fact that Ava found Sheppard because of his father's death being reported in the press. It all made sense and was beautifully interwoven.

I have to say, I thought Joel's score was wonderful. Really well done. Though, in all fairness, when isn't it? I do agree though that it was particularly excellent in this episode.

I thought the music sounded like it should be from a bond movie in places. :D

I was more reminded of Terminator! :lol: But I can see what you mean :)

fammann
February 3rd, 2008, 06:09 AM
I thought the music sounded like it should be from a bond movie in places. :D

For me it sounded a bit like one of those old John Carpenter action films ("Assault on Precinct 13", "Escape from New York"). And the first Terminator movie. I guess it's just the low budget 80 action movie style music.

Killdeer
February 3rd, 2008, 07:54 AM
An additional comment to clarify what I meant about the backstory:

I guess I didn't feel like we learned anything about Sheppard's history that we didn't already know from the Outcast spoilers. When we first heard about the episode, we discovered that Hey, Sheppard isn't an orphan! He had a father and has a brother. He has an ex-wife (which we had pretty much guessed from Sunday). We knew that there had been some sort of break between him and his family. But what we wanted to know, and what I felt this episode completely FAILED to answer was WHY? Why did Sheppard break from his family? Why did he and his dad not talk? What was so horribly bad that he would not even send them a message in Letters from Pegasus when they thought they were all going to die? Even Rodney, with all his lack of people skills, sent Jeannie a message, even though they were not speaking at that time. I thought we were going to get the answers to those questions in this episode, and we didn't. We really didn't get the answers to anything relating to his family that we didn't already know months ago from episode spoilers.

I guess the spoilers set up a lot of questions, and this episode was billed as the episode that would answer the questions about why Sheppard broke from his family, why he acts like he doesn't have a family, and so forth, and it completely did not even begin to do that. I guess I felt like it was false advertising. :S :D

Actionhank
February 3rd, 2008, 09:20 AM
Good episode. I liked the writing of the episode and didn't see it coming that Ava was a replicator. Good, realistic character behavior also for all actors. Bill getting a sunburn on his vacation - LOL. Ronon asking if the food was free at the wake - LOL x 2.

Then the many references: LOTR, Terminator 2, Star Trek IX (the beaming markers), The Matrix even a little Blade Runner.

I liked the soundtrack very much - I think it also got elements of at least some the above movies in it.

Bottom line: Very good episode, great entertainment.

LoneStar1836
February 3rd, 2008, 09:22 AM
I agree. After the last couple of episodes I was ready to completely give up on this show, but I did want to finally see Sheppard's back story. What a pleasant surprise. I do wish the backstory had featured more, since that was far more interesting to me than yet another replicator story.Well I've resigned myself to go down with the ship. :D A show usually has to get truly awful for me to abandon it if it was a show that I once loved. I still want to love SGA but some of the things tptb do grate on my nerves so I just don't get as excited about the show as I did in season one. There are some golden episodes here and there but it fluctuates.

Anyway, yeah I do wish the backstory had been fleshed out better, but I guess I should be thankful for what we did get, even though it wasn't much. The replicator stuff wasn't awful but it just wasn't that interesting. I guess I've had my fill of replicator stories and that's coming from someone who really liked the Replicator episodes on SG-1.



At least Dr. Lee wasn't there solely for laughs. He got to be the go-to scientist rather than the fool that makes Carter look good. I found him enjoyable here. True for this episode at least thankfully.

The sunburn was a little overboard, but I suppose I can't call him an idiot because one time in my life I made the same stupid mistake about not wearing sunblock at an airshow and ended up looking like that...minus the raccoon mask. :D


Again, I agree. A little more thought could have been put into the replicator story. Something more than the escape, the chase, the capture/kill. It felt like an excuse for a good chase scene instead of a plot.Agreed and that is usually my problem these days with SGA. The intelligent plots seem to be lacking. You get some good ones now and then but not consistently. I know every one can't be perfect, but they can try.


I miss Bates too. It was great to see him back. Although the poor guy was made to look somewhat incompetent being knocked out the way he was. I know. :rolleyes: I did have to frown at that. But that frown turned to a smile when the doc bought the farm...that character/actor bugged me.




I'm in the minority here about John's brother Dave being an *ss. I don't agree. Obviously he and John had issues and then John was gone for 4 yrs. (or more?). Dave said that he'd tried before to get in touch with him but that the air force wasn't always dependable about getting messages delivered. The remark about the money was meant to hurt John. Siblings say awful things like that----especially when they're holding grudges (shades of "McKay and Mrs. Miller" anyone?). He told John that their father regretted what had gone on between the two of them---if he was a real monster, he wouldn't have told that to John. I'm glad to see that they were going to work it out at the end of the episode---too bad we didn't get to be a fly on the wall for that----or at least a part of that conversation. I would've liked to have heard just what it was that came between John and his Dad.While I do agree with what you said (nicely expressed btw :)), I still think the brother was an ass. :P I do have two younger siblings...6 and 11 years my junior...but luckily for us we get along better now than we ever did as kids. I can see Dave being ticked off, but he knows what John does for a living (surely he can't be a total ditz about people in special forces), but the jab at John about the money was really low even if he may have not really meant it. Shep didn't care about the money before and now you [Dave] imply that is his only reason for showing up. Total ass, imho.


I would've happily given up some of the replicator stuff in exchange for more of Shep's family drama, but I'm a sucker for character stuff and I realize others would rather see space battles and chase scenes etc. Oh well.Same here. While I have never considered Stargate in general to be a character centric franchise, Atlantis does have more of a character focus than SG-1 ever had, imo. So I am more invested in the characters on this show than I ever was for SG-1. With SG-1, I never really care about the background of any of the characters...I watched the show for the good, thought provoking, action/adventure episodes. Seems nowadays on SGA, I watch the show more for the character interactions/character moments than I do for the plots.



Finally watched Outcast. Don't really have a lot to say at the moment - I'm kinda tired. Maybe I'll have more to say after I rewatch. But I liked it - I thought it was a good episode. I think it raised more questions than it answered though. I was hoping that we would find out more about just what happened between Sheppard and his father, what was so bad that he would totally write them off, so much so that he wouldn't even send a message in Letters from Pegasus. And that question didn't get answered. As I feared, this was more about the action/adventure, chasing the replicator, and Shep's backstory was just a little bit of filler here and there, not the focus.There was some debate about that as to whether or not he sent one. He's seen filming the one for Sumner but then I believe the background changed when they showed a cut of him signing off saying goodbye or whatever to what seemed like somebody else.

So I'd like to think that he did tape a message for whatever family he had.

Jill_Ion
February 3rd, 2008, 09:24 AM
I get what you're saying, Killdeer. Not sure if they want to fill in the backstory in the future or leave it for fanfic.

I *think* because John is supposed to be very smart, good with numbers, etc. his father expected him to go into business or into the family business. If he's the oldest son, then that expectation would have been stronger. John seems to have problems with following orders or directions or influences that go against his core values or personal desires. Why exactly I dunno, but it's just his personality, I guess.

His father may have thought John was going to settle down, maybe have some kids, and even though he was in the military, live a life that his father could approve of or understand. The divorce from Nancy may have demonstrated to Patrick (dad) that John couldn't "commit" or whatever, and his dad would've been especially disappointed because he really liked Nancy.

A guess, but probably a long way from any answer provided by TPTB, is that John and his dad had some big blowup, with the requisite talk of failure, lack of commitment, unable to live up to expectations, comparing siblings, etc. and may have included an exchange of "I'm outta here!" and "If you leave, don't come back!"

Unfortunately, John took his father's words (whatever they were) to heart and probably thought his dad really didn't want to see him. This feeling may have been mixed with a need to show his dad some spectacular accomplishment or the typical adult-kid-still-mad-at-parent dynamic. I'm sure, like many of us, they thought they'd have time to reconcile. Kinda sad, really.

Actionhank
February 3rd, 2008, 09:31 AM
I didn't think Sheps brother was a total a**hole either. One has to try to put himself into his position: Cared about dad while Sheppard was doing
god knows what - obviously Sheppard was (maybe still is) not good with family stuff - his mariage also broke for instance. At least he set other priorities in his life.
Ok, the money thing was low but you have to keep in mind the circumstance - it was the wake and Sheppard went off again - so one could get the impression. And like he said: It's hard to evaluate a person you don't often get to see, who seems not very interested in it either.

Egle01
February 3rd, 2008, 10:07 AM
'Outcast' was many times better than 'Harmony'. It was a good ep. I noticed interesting soundtrack. Something different. :)
John having issues with brother and dad made me again a little more realize consequences, when you're in a different galaxy. For those things, I gave 'Outcast' high rating.

I understand that Sam had no place on this mission, but I still hoped to see little more of her. :o

Mitchell82
February 3rd, 2008, 11:26 AM
I know this probably doesn't say much, but this is probably my favorite Earth-based episode for both SG-1 and SGA. I thought the character development of Sheppard were quite good (although somewhat expected...everyone who is willing to give up their family to live off-world has either no family or has been an outcast in his/her own family). I liked the Kari Wuhrner character despite me having some personally mix reaction to her from her slider days (hated her character there for the most part). Her extra interactions with Sheppard were good despite being very contrived. What's also contrived was how Ava saved Sheppard although it was an interesting end for that character at the end. It was also quite good to see Bates back again.

One more piece of nitpick, does this counts as one of Amanda's 14 (or so) episodes for the season? Particularly with the recent news about season 5, I was hoping to see more AT before the season is over.
I agree. I was a bit worried as she was horrible in Sliders but she did a great job here. My only disappointment was how little Carter was in the ep.

watcher652
February 3rd, 2008, 11:56 AM
Am I the only one who thinks John's ex-wife Nancy looks like Larrin, the Traveler who told John, "I'll call you"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0415%20Outcast/SGA0415Outcast0906629.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0405%20Travelers/SGA0405Travelers0653830.jpg

I'm still working on my comments. I think I'm up to minute 17, hah!

reddevil18
February 3rd, 2008, 11:59 AM
Am I the only one who thinks John's ex-wife Nancy looks like Larrin, the Traveler who told John, "I'll call you"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0415%20Outcast/SGA0415Outcast0906629.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0405%20Travelers/SGA0405Travelers0653830.jpg

I'm still working on my comments. I think I'm up to minute 17, hah!

People have remarked upon that ever since the casting was announced, I believe.
Yeah...And it kinda makes sense...It's John's type...Though, most female forms are probably his type...:p

Mitchell82
February 3rd, 2008, 12:14 PM
Am I the only one who thinks John's ex-wife Nancy looks like Larrin, the Traveler who told John, "I'll call you"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0415%20Outcast/SGA0415Outcast0906629.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0405%20Travelers/SGA0405Travelers0653830.jpg

I'm still working on my comments. I think I'm up to minute 17, hah!
A little but not that much.

SGalisa
February 3rd, 2008, 12:25 PM
I guess I didn't feel like we learned anything about Sheppard's history that we didn't already know from the Outcast spoilers. When we first heard about the episode, we discovered that Hey, Sheppard isn't an orphan! He had a father and has a brother. He has an ex-wife (which we had pretty much guessed from Sunday). ... I thought we were going to get the answers to those questions in this episode, and we didn't. We really didn't get the answers to anything relating to his family that we didn't already know months ago from episode spoilers.

I guess the spoilers set up a lot of questions, and this episode was billed as the episode that would answer the questions about why Sheppard broke from his family, why he acts like he doesn't have a family, and so forth, and it completely did not even begin to do that. I guess I felt like it was false advertising. :S :D

ummmm... I know this wasn't mentioned, but just in case *someone* else says it -- I wouldn't put all the complaining against Joe Flanigan for pitching the story idea of diving into some of Shep's past and not getting enough of it as "false advertising" (overall).

Pulling back on what we viewers might have been expecting, as to what was actually shown does raise more questions than it answered. Yes, in a way, I'm slightly disappointed that the details of Shep's family life was too short (some irony in that statement, too). But after reading reading that other topic about the chronic complaints of what happens if something is never done to please every viewer on Stargate, was definitely helpful, and I'm trying to stay hopeful for future stories to surface.. ;)

I didn't see the spoilers for it until last week (been avoiding reading them, on purpose! *grin*). So this entire episode was a surprise *treat* for me.

It may have a decision by TPTB to pull back, because they might have decided to spread the info out over periods of time, not throw it out to us all at once. What would then be left for the mystery..?

My question is now that we know Shep has a brother named "Dave" -- does Dave also have the "Ancient" gene code in him, or was Shep really adopted, and that's why all ties got severed as badly as they ended up... why Shep feels so alone in the universe -- him without his own blood-born *family* that is really part of his own genetic blood line... I know the gene can skip generations and even with family lines, but to add those other aspects would enhance this so much more...

...and I have to admit, having Dylan (Mike) from the Tv series titled "Blood Ties" and asking this question about Shep's SG-Atlantis' storyline BLOOD TIES, or sort of intriguing, in the ironic sense of program title wording... :D

Should Dylan Neal be in need of more work, it'd be nice to bring him back for a recurring role on SG-A. However, I would also like to see him back on BLOOD TIES -- if a network would pick it up for renewal... and then he could still come back between BT eps..
:)

so... who is their mom? or did they have separate moms? Half-brothers or what...? hmmm??? :cool:

Killdeer
February 3rd, 2008, 12:30 PM
ummmm... I know this wasn't mentioned, but just in case *someone* else says it -- I wouldn't put all the complaining against Joe Flanigan for pitching the story idea of diving into some of Shep's past and not getting enough of it as "false advertising" (overall).


I wasn't complaining about Joe Flanigan. In fact, I believe Joe Flanigan didn't even pick the backstory portion of this episode - his idea was the replicator story.


But after reading reading that other topic about the chronic complaints of what happens if something is never done to please every viewer on Stargate, was definitely helpful, and I'm trying to stay hopeful for future stories to surface.. ;)

Well, I was under the impression that this thread was to talk about our opinions pro and con regarding the episode, not just how much we loved it.

I actually said in my first post that I thought it was a good episode. I just had a problem with this particular aspect.

PG15
February 3rd, 2008, 12:35 PM
I think somebody has already mentioned this, but I had a revelation this morning.

Once again, Joel's score was awesome, but it was only then that I realized that it was actually an electronic version of the original Replicator theme! Listen, especially, to the part where the replicator is first spotted by Bates and Poole. The alternating 2-pitch and the constant rhythm: replicator theme.

SO. AWESOME.

SGalisa
February 3rd, 2008, 12:47 PM
I thought the character development of Sheppard were quite good (although somewhat expected...everyone who is willing to give up their family to live off-world has either no family or has been an outcast in his/her own family). I liked the Kari Wuhrner character despite me having some personally mix reaction to her from her slider days (hated her character there for the most part).


I agree. I was a bit worried as she was horrible in Sliders but she did a great job here. My only disappointment was how little Carter was in the ep.

I've seen Kari Wuhrer (Nancy, Shep's ex-wife in SG-A =) in other programs and movies. She was more known in some of those for flaunting her body, more than her brains --- one of those details my hubby seemed to notice about her (in those other programs/films)...

In "Outcast," I found her encounter here, as Nancy, with Shep quite interesting... knowing some of the *other* gals seem to flock to Shep's side, and Nancy didn't. Even when she hugged Shep during their initial greeting, and more as a *condolence hug*, and he didn't return a hug (as he did with Teyla a few eps ago!), it was definitely Shep holding back with the division lines. Who was reaching out to whom? She tried, but Shep wasn't responding -- at all, except to get some top secret info... job, job, job! He's married to his job! ;)

SGalisa
February 3rd, 2008, 12:56 PM
I wasn't complaining about Joe Flanigan. In fact, I believe Joe Flanigan didn't even pick the backstory portion of this episode - his idea was the replicator story.

Well, I was under the impression that this thread was to talk about our opinions pro and con regarding the episode, not just how much we loved it.

I wasn't targeting you or anyone, but mentioned it just in case someone *else* brought it up... (not you)... please, there's no need to go into defense mode at all on this...

maybe I'll send a greenie to point out what and where it was, too... ;)

and I did compliment you elsewhere about something else you said (I think it was in the pre-discussion topic), because I agreed with it... but when I tried to post it, the forum wasn't posting messages... it was that time of the year for the system to go nutzo...

I was having Gateworld withdrawal symptoms all over again -- until after OUTCAST aired. I even checked the alphasite (also down/on the fritz), especially because of this particular episode...
... :eek:

Killdeer
February 3rd, 2008, 12:59 PM
I wasn't targeting you or anyone, but mentioned it just in case someone *else* brought it up... (not you)... please, there's no
need to go into defense mode at all on this...

It's ok. Sorry about the defensiveness. :o I've had a headache for two days, and people can sometimes be a little condescending if you're not "rah rah rah" about everything. I apologize. :)

jelgate
February 3rd, 2008, 01:02 PM
It's ok.?* Sorry about the defensiveness. :o?* I've had a headache for two days, and people can sometimes be a little condescending if you're not "rah rah rah" about everything.?* I apologize. :)Some people take things too personally.

SGalisa
February 3rd, 2008, 01:02 PM
It's ok. Sorry about the defensiveness. :o I've had a headache for two days, and people can sometimes be a little condescending if you're not "rah rah rah" about everything. I apologize. :)

ehhh, no problem. It's usually our first impressions and quick reading that gets some of us (me included) into further debates... eeeek!

As for my promise of reinforcement to what you *did* say in the pre-discussion OUTCAST topic,
okay, it's done. Please check your "My Controls" link to see what I wrote... :)
hope you like it! (hope I sent it right, too...! yikes!)

SGalisa
February 3rd, 2008, 01:24 PM
Why did this ep feature Dr. Lee so prominently? Rodney could have done the same job, and he's actually a main character on SGA instead of a tertiary character on SG1. :mckay:

I thought about that too, but wondered if the reasoning was being that the SGC didn't want to use more stress on the gate system and the ZPM at Atlantis than necessary. They wanted someone pronto, so they spent extra money and flew Dr. Lee in from his vacation... which technically might actually be cheaper for the SGC to pay for getting someone already nearby on earth, than getting McKay in a distant galaxy, somewhere. Plus, McKay went off-world to visit the planet with the kids ... just a tiny detail I only just remembered... so he might *not* have been yet available to come over to earth, as quickly as the SGC and Shep needed technical help.. ;)

Also, the whole vacation line with Dr. Lee was sort of funny to begin with... hmmm, an indirect nod to the SG-1 series being out of Tv commission now, and subjected to limited eps by DVD, instead.. and the actor (for Dr. Lee) possibly being on hiatus between new job huntings..?



Hehe, loved "sunburned and peeling Lee". I wonder what happened...did they actually put that make up on Bill Dow just for this joke, or did he really get sunburned? Hmmm...gotta ask JM about this.

yeah, I kinda wondered if they sprayed on the red sunburn too (he had goggles on)... the entire vacation line was interesting.. typical guy line -- watching grown girls in bikinis with family nearby (hey, my dad did it too..!!), but interesting from a generalized Stargate perspective with most of the entire SG-1 team and SGC being put into a back burner type of mode for any potential visitations for future eps (on or off any new eps of DVDs).

MechaThor
February 3rd, 2008, 03:35 PM
Man, yet ANOTHER GREAT EPISODE!
Why could series 9 and 10 of SG-1 be this good?

Anyways, No real complants about this ep, Only good stuff. Such as:

-Sheppards Family is intresting and his X is Hot. I hope his Brother don't share the same online fate as Carters.
-Ronan on Earth, is always great. I would love to see Teyla and Ronan get lost on Earth on their own once, in like a shopping center of something!
- The New location was GREAT and looked cool. It made the cahse scenes look like something from a film, especailly when Ronan chased the rep up the Cargo Crane
-Both Dr Lee and Bates Where great. Loved Bills shirt.
-Great way to killl the rep, uisng the beaming tech. I doubt the Asgard would have liked us using it like that however!
-The Music was excellent in this ep. The new theme during the chase scenes worked great. It was like a mix of James Bond and something out of the Xbox 360 game "Mass Effect"
-Nice ending with the virtual world twist for the other rep, very smart!

9/10

P-90_177
February 3rd, 2008, 03:39 PM
I really enjoyed seeing bates in this too. I thought he was an ass in season 1 but obviously he was just doing what he thought was best for the team. The IOA seems to suit him though.

visose
February 3rd, 2008, 04:22 PM
I know this is scifi and there are lots of science stuff they get wrong on purpose to make it more interesting, but the "buringing up on re-entry" I think was maybe too much.
Things burn up on reentry because they are moving through the atmosphere at really high speeds. Satelites move at 30000 km/h or so, depending on the orbit. If you place a static object on the atmosphere and they fall by the force of gravity, they won't burn, as i understand it. Correct me if i'm wrong please. Skydivers don't burn up! While on the atmosphere, you reach what its called 'terminal velocity', that means that the atmosphere slows you down and you don't keep accelerating, so the replicator wouldn't reach a speed similar to the satelites that burn up on reeentry.

Actionhank
February 3rd, 2008, 05:05 PM
I know this is scifi and there are lots of science stuff they get wrong on purpose to make it more interesting, but the "buringing up on re-entry" I think was maybe too much.
Things burn up on reentry because they are moving through the atmosphere at really high speeds. Satelites move at 30000 km/h or so, depending on the orbit. If you place a static object on the atmosphere and they fall by the force of gravity, they won't burn, as i understand it. Correct me if i'm wrong please. Skydivers don't burn up! While on the atmosphere, you reach what its called 'terminal velocity', that means that the atmosphere slows you down and you don't keep accelerating, so the replicator wouldn't reach a speed similar to the satelites that burn up on reeentry.
I'm not a physicist but I believe you can pick up pretty much speed from orbit down. That is because there are not many molecules causing friction up there. So basically "terminal velocity" would be much higher for example in the thermosphere than in the troposphere. Temperature can get pretty high in the thermosphere but I don't think a massive body would heat up just from this much because of the few particles floating around.
Edit: But later on he could heat up pretty much because of his high speed.

But, please - there must be physicists on this forum. I could be wrong. :)

Vapor
February 3rd, 2008, 08:10 PM
An additional comment to clarify what I meant about the backstory:

I guess I didn't feel like we learned anything about Sheppard's history that we didn't already know from the Outcast spoilers. When we first heard about the episode, we discovered that Hey, Sheppard isn't an orphan! He had a father and has a brother. He has an ex-wife (which we had pretty much guessed from Sunday). We knew that there had been some sort of break between him and his family. But what we wanted to know, and what I felt this episode completely FAILED to answer was WHY? Why did Sheppard break from his family? Why did he and his dad not talk? What was so horribly bad that he would not even send them a message in Letters from Pegasus when they thought they were all going to die? Even Rodney, with all his lack of people skills, sent Jeannie a message, even though they were not speaking at that time. I thought we were going to get the answers to those questions in this episode, and we didn't. We really didn't get the answers to anything relating to his family that we didn't already know months ago from episode spoilers.

I guess the spoilers set up a lot of questions, and this episode was billed as the episode that would answer the questions about why Sheppard broke from his family, why he acts like he doesn't have a family, and so forth, and it completely did not even begin to do that. I guess I felt like it was false advertising. :S :D

Yeah, see, that's why I don't read many spoilers. For one, well, I don't wanna be spoiled. But it also could potentially create a lot of major expectations for things that may never actually happen. As seems to have been the case for you with "Outcast."

As far as the reason for Shep's attitude toward family goes? I personally just assumed that there was a big falling out between Shep and Dad-Brother, because he didn't want to be whatever they were, and it just intensified more and more until they just didn't speak anymore. I didn't feel cheated out of an explanation, cuz I didn't feel I was missing one.

But that's just me...

ToasterOnFire
February 3rd, 2008, 08:14 PM
I must be the odd (wo)man out here, as I didn't notice the music in this ep at all. Hell, the last time I noticed the music on SGA was way back in M&MM with that wonderful section when Jeannie was painting out physics equations in her home. :S


I thought about that too, but wondered if the reasoning was being that the SGC didn't want to use more stress on the gate system and the ZPM at Atlantis than necessary. They wanted someone pronto, so they spent extra money and flew Dr. Lee in from his vacation... which technically might actually be cheaper for the SGC to pay for getting someone already nearby on earth, than getting McKay in a distant galaxy, somewhere. Plus, McKay went off-world to visit the planet with the kids ... just a tiny detail I only just remembered... so he might *not* have been yet available to come over to earth, as quickly as the SGC and Shep needed technical help.. ;)
Oh, I think it made complete sense to have Dr Lee from an internal, canon-only POV. McKay was busy, Dr Lee was available, fine. What I was curious about was the behind the scenes decision as to why TPTB decided to feature him so prominently instead of spending screentime on SGA characters instead. I'd much rather see a scene back on Atlantis with Rodney and Teyla talking about her pregnancy, more screentime with Bates and Shep/Ronon, and/or more backstory with Shep.

SG13-NightOps
February 4th, 2008, 12:00 AM
another meh. cant give specifics, but it just didnt reach out and grab me like others have. it was really really slow, and then jumped forward rapidy, then went really really slow again, then another jump, rinse and repeat.

wasn't my cup of tea.

visose
February 4th, 2008, 03:30 AM
I'm not a physicist but I believe you can pick up pretty much speed from orbit down. That is because there are not many molecules causing friction up there. So basically "terminal velocity" would be much higher for example in the thermosphere than in the troposphere. Temperature can get pretty high in the thermosphere but I don't think a massive body would heat up just from this much because of the few particles floating around.
Edit: But later on he could heat up pretty much because of his high speed.

But, please - there must be physicists on this forum. I could be wrong. :)

I thought about that, but he starts to burn up a couple of seconds after he is transported.
Shepperd says "lower earth orbit", that's where the international space station is, at an altitude of around 350 km.

I'll do some high school physics without including the air resistance, to see what distance in vacuum he has to free fall to get to a decent speed:
vf^2 = vi^2 + 2gd, solve for d (distance)
vi: inital speed, its supposed to be 0 m/s
vf: final speed, satelites burn on reentry because they travel at about 20,00-30,000 km/h. Lets say a replicator burns at 10,000 km/h (2777m/s)
g: gravity, 10 m/s^2
RESULT:
d = 386 km, this means the replicator would need to travel that distance in vacuum before reaching atmosphere to burn up. So maybe if he was placed at double the altitude of the space station is, it could happen, i guess this is still "lower earth orbit". Note that i'm making up the speed the replicator needs be to start to burn up (among other things).
Yes, i'm reaaaly bored. It would be nice if someone that know what he is talking about could clarify this.

Admiral Mappalazarou
February 4th, 2008, 04:39 AM
It wasn't as predictable as I first thought. I liked stargates take on Terminator 2 and how they finally dealt with the replicator threat. I didn't mind the character moments. Not a bad episode.

MechaThor
February 4th, 2008, 04:52 AM
I thought about that, but he starts to burn up a couple of seconds after he is transported.
Shepperd says "lower earth orbit", that's where the international space station is, at an altitude of around 350 km.

I'll do some high school physics without including the air resistance, to see what distance in vacuum he has to free fall to get to a decent speed:
vf^2 = vi^2 + 2gd, solve for d (distance)
vi: inital speed, its supposed to be 0 m/s
vf: final speed, satelites burn on reentry because they travel at about 20,00-30,000 km/h. Lets say a replicator burns at 10,000 km/h (2777m/s)
g: gravity, 10 m/s^2
RESULT:
d = 386 km, this means the replicator would need to travel that distance in vacuum before reaching atmosphere to burn up. So maybe if he was placed at double the altitude of the space station is, it could happen, i guess this is still "lower earth orbit". Note that i'm making up the speed the replicator needs be to start to burn up (among other things).
Yes, i'm reaaaly bored. It would be nice if someone that know what he is talking about could clarify this.

WOW I have no idea what you are talking about, When not none, But little.

Anyways as far as the speed of burn up after the beaming goes, Remember its a TV show which had only a few mins left of screentime, +CGI cost. There4 a long and realistic fall and burn-up would have been too much.
I like to think that what they did show us, was just a "TV" quicker version, allowing us to just get the basic Idea.
However if they had just beamed him into the middle of the sun or the planets core, we would not have this problem, But it also would not have looked as cool!

As for the fact that he was static upon beam up, maybe when they beamed him into space they some how, made him un-beam traveling at a valocity? I mean the beams seem to re-form people from sitting to standing, so I ma sure you could reprogram the beam to give his valocity a kick start?

Finally: Ronan being disapointed about the title of "Blades of Glory" was great!

Pajus
February 4th, 2008, 08:06 AM
Seeing this discussion, I have spent 4 hours trying to create a program that would simulate the poor Replicator's re-entry. I call it "The Replicator skydiver". It simulates atmospheric density, non-homogenous (=realistic) gravity field and a few more things. I have presumed, that the Replicator weights app. 90kg and was falling from a height of 200 km:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w273/pajus_photos/Replicator%20Skydiver/ReplicatorSkydiver1.png

I seriously doubt the Replicator would be damaged, let alone something better

If anyone has different parameters, my program will be more than happy to calculate them

Falcon Horus
February 4th, 2008, 08:31 AM
Wow, that was one boring episode... *snore*

The good:
* Ronon having a go at the food at John's father's funeral
* Ronon appearing next to John in the gate room
* Ronon in Earth-clothes is a definite hit
* Bill burned and talking about his skimpy bikini's - *snort*

Note: I'm not a Ronon-fan, or at least he isn't one of my favorites, but I can appreciate him in all his glory.

The rest:
* Meh... & boring...
* something fishy about Ava from the get-go

prion
February 4th, 2008, 08:45 AM
You know i've been thinking. Obviously Shep hasn't been left the company in his dads will. That was most likely daves. It just seemed like Dave was a business man that was following in his dads footsteps....But dave also said that their dad regretted what happend between him and shep so obviously he wasn't left out of the will.....So............what do you think shep got? A nice little inheritance perhaps?

Nope, I figure Dave now has controlling interest in the companies because he's probably been working on them with dad for a while. Dave is following in his dad's footsteps, probably has no problem with it, but I think dad left something for John in the will. If he had regrets up to the end, he's not going to just cut John out of the will. He's probably left him with some sizable assets but not company holdings, but there may be a cavaet in the will that if John wanted to come into the family business, he could. Personally I think all John would have wanted was to reconcile with his father. He's not a materialistic person.


An additional comment to clarify what I meant about the backstory:

I guess I didn't feel like we learned anything about Sheppard's history that we didn't already know from the Outcast spoilers. When we first heard about the episode, we discovered that Hey, Sheppard isn't an orphan! He had a father and has a brother. He has an ex-wife (which we had pretty much guessed from Sunday). We knew that there had been some sort of break between him and his family. But what we wanted to know, and what I felt this episode completely FAILED to answer was WHY? Why did Sheppard break from his family? Why did he and his dad not talk? What was so horribly bad that he would not even send them a message in Letters from Pegasus when they thought they were all going to die? Even Rodney, with all his lack of people skills, sent Jeannie a message, even though they were not speaking at that time. I thought we were going to get the answers to those questions in this episode, and we didn't. We really didn't get the answers to anything relating to his family that we didn't already know months ago from episode spoilers.

I guess the spoilers set up a lot of questions, and this episode was billed as the episode that would answer the questions about why Sheppard broke from his family, why he acts like he doesn't have a family, and so forth, and it completely did not even begin to do that. I guess I felt like it was false advertising. :S :D

For viewers who don't read spoilers, the episode probably gave them a lot. For us fans who know virtually everything, it was like, okay, some setup, but honestly, no real answers (except clarification of the 'black ops' top secret missions he did, although he only said top secret so it's not necessarily nefarious kill a lot of people type black ops stuff). I'd love to have had a hint of what divided the family.


Am I the only one who thinks John's ex-wife Nancy looks like Larrin, the Traveler who told John, "I'll call you"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0415%20Outcast/SGA0415Outcast0906629.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0405%20Travelers/SGA0405Travelers0653830.jpg

I'm still working on my comments. I think I'm up to minute 17, hah!

No, not at all. NOT. ;) Yes, definite similarities, but the casting folk seem to go for actresses who all sorta look alike. I mean, look at how many women have that same hairstyle... John seems attracted to brunettes with long hair (while Rodney salivates over blondes with short hair) He also seems attracted to strong, independent women, and Larrin and Nancy are of the same type. However, with Larrin, he doesn't have the 'sorry, hun, gotta vanish for a top secret mission. can't make dinner' problem. he's only got problems with 'sorry, can't give you my home address' and maybe the fact she might tie him up again (and I have no idea why she tied him up as it was pretty silly).

MechaThor
February 4th, 2008, 09:44 AM
Am I the only one who thinks John's ex-wife Nancy looks like Larrin, the Traveler who told John, "I'll call you"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0415%20Outcast/SGA0415Outcast0906629.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/watcher652/Atlantis%20Episodes/Season%204/0405%20Travelers/SGA0405Travelers0653830.jpg

I'm still working on my comments. I think I'm up to minute 17, hah!

Kind of but, NO!
Theres is a few similarities, like how they are both woman and facing the same direction, also the hair and eye colours match.
But I see where you was coming from!

If I was John however I would pick his X as she is hotter! *(wel they both R but the X still wins)

Raven56
February 4th, 2008, 10:02 AM
For viewers who don't read spoilers, the episode probably gave them a lot. For us fans who know virtually everything, it was like, okay, some setup, but honestly, no real answers (except clarification of the 'black ops' top secret missions he did, although he only said top secret so it's not necessarily nefarious kill a lot of people type black ops stuff). I'd love to have had a hint of what divided the family.
I avoid as many spoilers as I can - I much prefer the surprise factor; but even for me I almost yelled when they finished the episode on the closing door - I WANTED MORE! :o



...he's only got problems with 'sorry, can't give you my home address' and maybe the fact she might tie him up again (and I have no idea why she tied him up as it was pretty silly).
I think she just likes tying him up! ;) Can't say as I blame her :lol:
Also, to be more serious (yeah, right :cool:), it does throw him off balance, and anything that does that will be a plus for Larrin. I know a lot of people hate her, but I just got through rewatching the episodes, and she's okay, in my book.

solarscreen
February 4th, 2008, 10:35 AM
I enjoyed this episode. I'm glad it was JFs idea and that it was good enough to become part of the story. It shows Joe is invested in the show and really puts himself into it.

Not a big commentary this time but a couple of notes:

1. The brother
Some see him as an @ss but we definitely did not get the WHOLE history of John Sheppard. John is somewhat of a rebel and even the military has had to keep an eye on him. The brother's attitude could be well justified if we consider more of their past. I see John as the younger brother. He was not going to inherit the family business but he was expected to tow the family line. This can cause a backlash in teen attitude and the brother's comment about money is not necessarily shallow or snide. John could have been a problem for the family and expensive as well. His father tried hard to bring him around but they finally had their toe to toe blow up and John left and decided to go the danger boy route. John would not really know how his father felt because of the way men just don't communicate very effectively, because John was at the height of his teen invincibility, and because of the last time the two actually did speak. John told Nancy that his father would have probably said the best thing he ever did was marry her. I think this spoke to being mature and responsible versus how he was at home. As his brother said, if I have the wrong impression it's not my fault. I'd say the brother showed his maturity and levelheadedness at the end when John came back to see him.

2. I really like how the writers are handling these interpersonal relationship issues and putting a good solid emphasis on them. Nancy early on spoke about how she felt not knowing where he was or what he was doing and his always being gone. Nobody ever knows how they will react to those situations until they are in them. Having been deployed to Kuwait and Somalia in my career, I can tell you that some relationships did not survive those times away and the fears the deployments brought to spouses minds. And yet, the writers did not leave this at that point. Near the end of the ep, Nancy tells John that the way she looked at John is the way Grant looks at her now. I think it shows that she has begun to realize that life can deal difficult situations to each of us and that we may not realize how it affects those who care about us and are also involved in that situation. I appreciated that moment of realization from her and that she told him about it. It doesn't fix what has already happened but it does help him deal with how things are now.

Of course, Ronon helped keep things up and Atlantis flavored!

garhkal
February 4th, 2008, 10:43 AM
Well, finally saw it. Not much to say for once. it was an ok filler epsode.. The only 2 good parts i had were the reintroduction of bates and the going into sheps backround a little more.. other than that i had no real feelings for it.

reddevil18
February 4th, 2008, 11:19 AM
* Bill burned and talking about his skimpy bikini's
:S Thanks for that mental picture...

Falcon Horus
February 4th, 2008, 11:54 AM
:S Thanks for that mental picture...

Sorry! :p

Mitchell82
February 4th, 2008, 12:01 PM
Man, yet ANOTHER GREAT EPISODE!
Why could series 9 and 10 of SG-1 be this good?
To me they were but thats a discussion for somewhere else.


Anyways, No real complants about this ep, Only good stuff. Such as:

-Sheppards Family is intresting and his X is Hot. I hope his Brother don't share the same online fate as Carters.
-Ronan on Earth, is always great. I would love to see Teyla and Ronan get lost on Earth on their own once, in like a shopping center of something!
- The New location was GREAT and looked cool. It made the cahse scenes look like something from a film, especailly when Ronan chased the rep up the Cargo Crane
-Both Dr Lee and Bates Where great. Loved Bills shirt.
-Great way to killl the rep, uisng the beaming tech. I doubt the Asgard would have liked us using it like that however!
-The Music was excellent in this ep. The new theme during the chase scenes worked great. It was like a mix of James Bond and something out of the Xbox 360 game "Mass Effect"
-Nice ending with the virtual world twist for the other rep, very smart!

9/10

I agree everything was great in this ep. I like your Mass Effect comparison. That is the first game since Oblivion I'v loved the music so much. Joel always does a great job.

Platschu
February 4th, 2008, 12:03 PM
This episode was bad. A reused replicator story in the middle of a funeral?! 3/10 point. :(

Mitchell82
February 4th, 2008, 12:11 PM
This episode was bad. A reused replicator story in the middle of a funeral?! 3/10 point. :(

I'm curious how was it reused?

reddevil18
February 4th, 2008, 12:16 PM
I'm curious how was it reused?

As am I...

jelgate
February 4th, 2008, 12:23 PM
As am I...Make that three. Can't seem to recall a previous episode that involves a Tauri Replicator on Earth.

Linzi
February 4th, 2008, 12:24 PM
I'm curious how was it reused?
Me too. I don't remember an episode where a team member's father had died and he/she was called away from the funeral wake to go chase a human form replicator who was loose on earth...:confused:

TOIVA
February 4th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Well, quite an average episode, but it could have been better. Where is all the team?? Again only Sheppard (and Ronon). I think there should be more of classic stargate episodes: (all)the team passes through a stargate, explores a new world...:cool:

Jumper_One
February 4th, 2008, 12:29 PM
I'm curious how was it reused?


As am I...


Make that three. Can't seem to recall a previous episode that involves a Tauri Replicator on Earth.


Me too. I don't remember an episode where a team member's father had died and he/she was called away from the funeral wake to go chase a human form replicator who was loose on earth...:confused:

I think you guys scared him away :P

Zelos
February 4th, 2008, 01:18 PM
Not the most exciting episode but good none the less. Great to finally get some background on Sheppard, even if it did leave me with more questions! But I guess those will have to wait.
I can't complain about the twist with Ava because I accidentally read about it here before I sat and watched the episode. Way to spoil it for myself, smooth, very smooth. I guess I may have seen it coming regardless but who knows.
Loved Ronon and the food, a man after my own heart there (what's this? Free food? *grabs*) always entertaining to see him in a different environment.
Also loved the scene with Rodney at the beginning, trying his best to console Sheppard whilst maintaining his usually awkwardness in these situations.
So yes, good for an Earth episode, great to see more of Ronon, great to see something about Sheppard's background, but just not as exciting as some of the other episodes.

Ah and I forgot - great to see Bates again! It always bugs me when characters just disappear without much explanation so it was nice to see one actually come back!

gatechick
February 4th, 2008, 02:52 PM
I hate to say this as I have been enjoying season 4 so far, but this had to be the worst ep I have seen this season. It was just plain boring. It seemed to drag on forever. I wish they had spent time exploring more of Shep's family life. I found the replicator story dumb. On the plus side I got to see Shep in that hot blazer and jeans ensemble at the end of the ep. Yummy!!!

Jill_Ion
February 4th, 2008, 05:16 PM
I hate to say this as I have been enjoying season 4 so far, but this had to be the worst ep I have seen this season. It was just plain boring. It seemed to drag on forever. I wish they had spent time exploring more of Shep's family life. I found the replicator story dumb. On the plus side I got to see Shep in that hot blazer and jeans ensemble at the end of the ep. Yummy!!!

:sheppard: Shep makes everything better! :)


I think you guys scared him away :P

Oh poo. I wanted to be the Fifth person who wanted to know.

But I probably would've been left in some time dilation field, so maybe it's for the best.

EdenSG
February 4th, 2008, 05:59 PM
Great episode!

Loved the backstory on Sheppard. I like that fact he came from a rich family – seems to suit his character well. It answered many questions I had. Of course it didn’t answer all questions – I didn’t expect it - but it gave us some pretty good insight.

Nancy was perfectly written as his ex. smart, pretty, caring - but not a push over.

Loved the scene at the beginning with Rodney.

Loved that Ronon went with him – didn’t even ask.

Liked the Terminator feel as Sheppard & Ronon were chasing down the replicator in the docks.

The music was different – I really liked it, fit the story well.

Great script by Alan.

Outstanding acting by JF. The way he expresses emotions is remarkable. Especially with Rondey in the beginning, when he stood over his Dad’s coffin, talking with his ex-wife then with his brother – just to name a few.

nx01a
February 4th, 2008, 11:00 PM
:sheppard: Shep makes everything better! :)



Oh poo. I wanted to be the Fifth person who wanted to know.

But I probably would've been left in some time dilation field, so maybe it's for the best.
I saw what you did there.;)

visose
February 5th, 2008, 01:18 AM
Seeing this discussion, I have spent 4 hours trying to create a program that would simulate the poor Replicator's re-entry. I call it "The Replicator skydiver". It simulates atmospheric density, non-homogenous (=realistic) gravity field and a few more things. I have presumed, that the Replicator weights app. 90kg and was falling from a height of 200 km:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w273/pajus_photos/Replicator%20Skydiver/ReplicatorSkydiver1.png

I seriously doubt the Replicator would be damaged, let alone something better

If anyone has different parameters, my program will be more than happy to calculate them

Very nice!
Although the initial altitude may be too low. Wikipedia says lower earth orbit can be up to 2000 km. Nevertheless by this data it seems impossible to happen how its depicted in the show unless when transported, its given a velocity.


WOW I have no idea what you are talking about, When not none, But little.

Anyways as far as the speed of burn up after the beaming goes, Remember its a TV show which had only a few mins left of screentime, +CGI cost. There4 a long and realistic fall and burn-up would have been too much.
I like to think that what they did show us, was just a "TV" quicker version, allowing us to just get the basic Idea.
However if they had just beamed him into the middle of the sun or the planets core, we would not have this problem, But it also would not have looked as cool!

As for the fact that he was static upon beam up, maybe when they beamed him into space they some how, made him un-beam traveling at a valocity? I mean the beams seem to re-form people from sitting to standing, so I ma sure you could reprogram the beam to give his valocity a kick start?

Finally: Ronan being disapointed about the title of "Blades of Glory" was great!

I agree pretty much with everything you said. But its sci-fi, so lets just discuss how wrong they got it!

Smo
February 5th, 2008, 02:00 AM
It's to much to read trough all pages from the beginning so sorry if i'm repeating someone else's post...Does anyone remember good old ST:TNG? and dr Moriarty?...Well i do and i feel ripped off by writers...they just took the whole ending of ST episode and squashed it into SGA...oh may frelling flying spaghetti monster! how cheap was that?!

Raven56
February 5th, 2008, 04:30 AM
It's to much to read trough all pages from the beginning so sorry if i'm repeating someone else's post...Does anyone remember good old ST:TNG? and dr Moriarty?...Well i do and i feel ripped off by writers...they just took the whole ending of ST episode and squashed it into SGA...oh may frelling flying spaghetti monster! how cheap was that?!
Not everybody watches the same shows. I don't remember 'good old ST:TNG and dr Moriarty'.
Half the episodes of ANY show nowadays are taken straight from the classic '50s and '60s scifi by Norton, Heinlein, Asimov, Zelazny, etc., especially if you take only one tiny plot piece and compare it.

Jill_Ion
February 5th, 2008, 04:43 AM
I saw what you did there.;)

Hee hee! Cool. :)


It's to much to read trough all pages from the beginning so sorry if i'm repeating someone else's post...Does anyone remember good old ST:TNG? and dr Moriarty?...Well i do and i feel ripped off by writers...they just took the whole ending of ST episode and squashed it into SGA...oh may frelling flying spaghetti monster! how cheap was that?!

I remember that ep and thought both eps were cool. I was glad both teams were able to find a peaceful resolution - however it ultimately ended.

Also, that particular ST:TNG ep first aired twenty years ago. I don't think it was cheap, nor particularly squishy. ;)

Achaja
February 5th, 2008, 05:06 AM
So...the best thing in this ep. for me was to see Dr Lee's face- red like tomato haha :D and I give 7/10 :)

Smo
February 5th, 2008, 06:22 AM
TNG not TOS please not 60's! was it 20 years ago? am i so old? seams i'm extremely ignorant about the passage of time, anyway...Yes people don't watch all, yes ideas get recycled, yea people this and that. Point remains- it was done before in the SAME manner. If there is only so much ideas we can come up with then its quite hypocritical to call the show original or fresh...and please don't twist it into something else- i wouldn't argue if it was something similar or it would be the same idea approached differently or something like that. I feel ripped off cause it was cloned ending and i saw the original. You don't have to argue with me or try to set me straight.

Jill_Ion
February 5th, 2008, 08:42 AM
TNG not TOS please not 60's! was it 20 years ago? am i so old? seams i'm extremely ignorant about the passage of time, anyway...Yes people don't watch all, yes ideas get recycled, yea people this and that. Point remains- it was done before in the SAME manner. If there is only so much ideas we can come up with then its quite hypocritical to call the show original or fresh...and please don't twist it into something else- i wouldn't argue if it was something similar or it would be the same idea approached differently or something like that. I feel ripped off cause it was cloned ending and i saw the original. You don't have to argue with me or try to set me straight.

Not sure if you were talking to me or someone else. I know I wasn't trying to argue with you or set you straight. No twisting or whatever. Just expressing my opinion.

I was surprised as you that the TNG ep we were talking about was so old. Guess it makes sense when I think about it.

Lythisrose
February 5th, 2008, 09:39 AM
I liked this episode alot and that's probably because Shep is my favorite character, and JF's acting (so love his facial expressions) just always pleases me immensely!
I enjoyed seeing some of Shep's back story, and am a little bit glad that many things were still left to the imagination. Maybe it will lead to more exploration of his character in the future.
I had read a few of the episode comments before I saw the ep and knew that Ava was a replicator. But I didn't know she was a "good replicator" - so when she was looking through the pictures and articles at the beginning for a while I thought that she'd engineered papa Sheppard's heart attack somehow to get Shep back to earth.
I don't think that Dave looked like John, but not all brothers and sisters look alike, in my family we have the range from blue eyed blonde to hazel eyed dark brunette,(no questioning my parents please). And I totally think Dave thought that John had brought his boyfriend to the wake when he saw Ronon.
I liked the ex wife and Ava, it was nice to see Shep with women interacting at a mature level.
Loved seeing Bates again and Dr. Sunburn.
Can't even begin to comment rationally about John and Ronon in civvies!
Appreciated that they had the "friendship scene" with John and Rodney in the beginning as I was wondering how they could explain Rodney not going. The writers seem to have been developing this friendship so much over the course of the season that it would have been strange if Rodney had not even attempted to go.
Most everything else has been said by others, and I can't find too much I didn't like about Outcast. I guess I wondered why he needed to contact Nancy for security info, when the SGC could have had a direct line in to even higher levels of info.
Anyway, this one will be one of my favorites. :)

Raven56
February 5th, 2008, 10:08 AM
I liked this episode alot and that's probably because Shep is my favorite character, and JF's acting (so love his facial expressions) just always pleases me immensely!
:indeed:

I guess I wondered why he needed to contact Nancy for security info, when the SGC could have had a direct line in to even higher levels of info.
Anyway, this one will be one of my favorites. :)
I think it was because they weren't sure who was involved - there was some mention of a buyer for the replicator, possibly military or ex-military (ie could be NID), so they weren't sure if anyone in SGC, NID, or HWS might be connected.

Fenrir Foxz
February 5th, 2008, 11:07 AM
I think it was because they weren't sure who was involved - there was some mention of a buyer for the replicator, possibly military or ex-military (ie could be NID), so they weren't sure if anyone in SGC, NID, or HWS might be connected.

Funny than is pretty what I thought aswell :)

Raven56
February 5th, 2008, 11:17 AM
Funny than is pretty what I thought aswell :)

Cool. I love it when a plan comes together.... :D
Just as an aside, the way I work out my "huh?"s is 3 fold:
1. Has anything been said on any episode before that explains this?
2. If not, has anything been implied on any episode before that might be used to explain this?
3. If not, chalk it up as an 'oops'. :)

Fenrir Foxz
February 5th, 2008, 11:26 AM
Cool. I love it when a plan comes together.... :D
Just as an aside, the way I work out my "huh?"s is 3 fold:
1. Has anything been said on any episode before that explains this?
2. If not, has anything been implied on any episode before that might be used to explain this?
3. If not, chalk it up as an 'oops'. :)

:lol:

Good way of looking at it ;)

Promethius30
February 5th, 2008, 12:05 PM
nice to see some big action sequences

Alan
February 5th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Fantastic! A great episode! Definitely far superior to the abysmal Harmony!

A certainly well-deserved 10 out of 10 vote from me! :)

beale947
February 5th, 2008, 12:56 PM
It was a very good episode. I'm glad that we finally got to see some of sheppards background.

Definatly didn't see the RepliAva twist coming, and liked the reference too T2.
Loved Lee in this episode. Poor him, he had his first holiday in 3 years and onlyto have it end before it started:P does anything good happen to him?

And Tanya as Sheps. ex-wife:P He sure does pick them. Lucky SOB :P

Mitchell82
February 5th, 2008, 01:18 PM
I think you guys scared him away :P

Damn I hate unanswered questions.

Raven56
February 5th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Damn I hate unanswered questions.

:lol:

Matt G
February 5th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Well...

1. Interesting how Ronan just bowled through the Gate.

2. OK, so John not doing Mensa is a family rebellion thing.

3. Didn't really see the second rep coming, did like the Rep vs Rep battle.

4. OK, they put her in VR. Methinks trhere's no great wisdom in this but we'll see.

Overall, good, best ep since Spoils of War at least though not on my awesome list!

jclark19
February 5th, 2008, 02:42 PM
Brilliant episode but I thought it was definately one of the better episodes of this season but also think it would have worked better as an sg-1 episode! :)

Jumper_One
February 5th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Damn I hate unanswered questions.

:lol:

imiscarson
February 5th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Does anyone know who played Sheppards brother? He looks so familiar.

generaloneill
February 5th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Wow, I was right it was Terminator 2.

I dont know why little things catch my eye, but why was ronan wearing a watch. I mean I understand they should have him blend in more human like clothes but why would he bother with a watch. I liked his table manners at the wake.



I never noticed ronon wearing a watch i have to watch outcast again

Just noticed when going through the screencaps for miller’s crossing at stargatecaps
I never noticed That ronon was wearing a watch in that episode as well.
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/409/html/mcrossing0185.html


A few questions for all you die hard fans out there:

1) Where could I get high res screen caps of the episode (beyond what's available at MGM/Sci Fi)? In particular, has anyone seen a blown up copy of the Globe business article which headlined "Utilities mogul Patrick Sheppard dies at 69" (I think)?



www.stargatecaps.com is where you will find them they haven't been uploaded yet but they will be eventually
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/

Pics of the newspaper
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=51019




Was Sheppard's brother older or younger?

Older at least that's the impression i got on first seeing him


Ronon goes to Earth again and this time took his gun.
Vala,

Ronon brought his gun with him to earth in miller's crossing.

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/409/html/mcrossing0575.html

Did you miss that episode?


-Ronan on Earth, is always great. I would love to see Teyla and Ronan get lost on Earth on their own once, in like a shopping center of something!



That i'd like to see

Ronon sees a weapons store

Ronon to teyla see you later

Teyla see you later i've found a maternity shop to go into (mothercare):lol:

Loved the scene between shep and rodney

John's brother what a *******

Liked Sheppard’s ex-wife i was expecting her to be a ***** but was pleasantly surprised

The replicator burning up on re-entry was cool

Wasn't expecting ava to be a replicator nice twist

I hated that doctor who created the replicator and didn't feel any sympathy for him when the replicator killed him

Loved the new scenes of the apollo in space it's about time there were new ones the usual ones are getting old

ATLANTIS. John Sheppard and Ronon Dex are walking along a corridor.

DEX: I watched it last night. There was hardly any fighting.

SHEPPARD: That's 'cause it's not about fighting.

DEX: Then why's it called "Blades of Glory"?

SHEPPARD: 'Cause it's about ... skate blades.

DEX: And this is a real sport? Men and women dancing around on ice?

SHEPPARD: Unfortunately.

DEX: Your planet's weird.

SHEPPARD: Mmm, you can say that again. :lol:

A LITTLE LATER. Ronon has found a food table in the garden and is loading as many sandwiches and cakes as he can onto a plate. He looks up at a man and woman who are watching him from the other side of the table.

DEX: This is free, right?

WOMAN: Yes, it's free. :lol:

hopefully there will be more episodes in which ronon gets to go to earth.

Amalthea
February 5th, 2008, 06:10 PM
It was a good episode, overall. I think Ava establishing her backstory was a little forced at the beginning, though and made her suspicious right away.

I agree with everyone who said that it was nice to get some Shep backstory! I would never have thought he came from all that. I can only imagine how angry his dad was when he went military. Although the nice makeup scene with his handsome brother at the end was nice.

Ronon in jeans is just too hot. They had many butt shots I noticed as well. :ronan:

Lastly, what happened to the week quarantine they're supposed to spend on the midway station? I think it they forgot about it for convenience's sake.

Overall, very nice! People really need to stop playing with nanites! Bad things happen! lol

Elinor
February 5th, 2008, 10:45 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. At last! A good chunk of back story for Shep. What I loved about it was that, although we got questions answered about his history, this only threw up another set of questions. So there's still a hint of mystery about the guy. I like that! That was nicely done by the writers.

I didn't twig that Ava was a replicator and the ending she had I didn't see that coming either, so that was interesting.

I thought all the guest stars were good. Especially liked Kari as Shep's ex. She just seems right for the part. Hope we see her again some time. As others have said, he does seem to like the long-haired brunettes doesn't he?! Heh! There's hope for me yet then!!

Ronon is just going from strength to strength this season. I've always thought he was a good character but he's getting more interesting this year. S'good!

As for Joe Flanigan...well...I think he's the best thing since sliced bread!! Such a fab actor.

:)

Raven56
February 6th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Lastly, what happened to the week quarantine they're supposed to spend on the midway station? I think it they forgot about it for convenience's sake.
IIRC it's 24 hours quarantine, and I'm pretty sure that bereavement/emergency leave would end up being exempt, with just a quick checkup by the SGC doctors before release.

garhkal
February 6th, 2008, 07:55 AM
Okay, about the whole Replicator in the VR world thing...She said that she wasn't allowed to work in any scientific field...Why? Since she's in a VR world and can't harm anyone, why not let her think that she works for the government and have someone oversee her work. A replicator's bound to be fairly clever...Might have come up with something useful...

Perhaps cause if she works in science, she might find out she is stuck in that VR world..

reddevil18
February 6th, 2008, 08:44 AM
Perhaps cause if she works in science, she might find out she is stuck in that VR world..

How exactly would that happen?

Mitchell82
February 6th, 2008, 09:31 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. At last! A good chunk of back story for Shep. What I loved about it was that, although we got questions answered about his history, this only threw up another set of questions. So there's still a hint of mystery about the guy. I like that! That was nicely done by the writers.

I didn't twig that Ava was a replicator and the ending she had I didn't see that coming either, so that was interesting.

I thought all the guest stars were good. Especially liked Kari as Shep's ex. She just seems right for the part. Hope we see her again some time. As others have said, he does seem to like the long-haired brunettes doesn't he?! Heh! There's hope for me yet then!!

Ronon is just going from strength to strength this season. I've always thought he was a good character but he's getting more interesting this year. S'good!

As for Joe Flanigan...well...I think he's the best thing since sliced bread!! Such a fab actor.

:)
Agreed. Finally we see more of Sheps backstory.

metabog
February 6th, 2008, 12:52 PM
I know this is scifi and there are lots of science stuff they get wrong on purpose to make it more interesting, but the "buringing up on re-entry" I think was maybe too much.
Things burn up on reentry because they are moving through the atmosphere at really high speeds. Satelites move at 30000 km/h or so, depending on the orbit. If you place a static object on the atmosphere and they fall by the force of gravity, they won't burn, as i understand it. Correct me if i'm wrong please. Skydivers don't burn up! While on the atmosphere, you reach what its called 'terminal velocity', that means that the atmosphere slows you down and you don't keep accelerating, so the replicator wouldn't reach a speed similar to the satelites that burn up on reeentry.

Yeah... when I saw that part I was like "OH COME ON......"

Don't these people have a scientific advisor when coming up with these ideas?

jckfan55
February 6th, 2008, 01:32 PM
This was an ok episode. I liked seeing a little of Shep's backstory & it was good to see that TPTB remembered Bates. I really liked that Dr. Lee wasn't a dolt in this episode. They did too much of that in the last couple of seasons. I mean he wouldn't have the job if he was a complete idiot, would he?

Buck32
February 7th, 2008, 05:44 AM
This was an ok episode. I liked seeing a little of Shep's backstory & it was good to see that TPTB remembered Bates. I really liked that Dr. Lee wasn't a dolt in this episode. They did too much of that in the last couple of seasons. I mean he wouldn't have the job if he was a complete idiot, would he?


An average episode the only good bits were the twist at the end and shepherd's family dynamics. otherwise a bit of a yawner.

garhkal
February 7th, 2008, 09:09 AM
How exactly would that happen?

Scientifi inconsistencies in her 'reality'..

Mitchell82
February 7th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Yeah... when I saw that part I was like "OH COME ON......"

Don't these people have a scientific advisor when coming up with these ideas?

Actually what happened to the Replicator actually would happen. He was high enough in the atmosphere that he would burn up. He was way higher than any skydiver.

nx01a
February 7th, 2008, 05:25 PM
Don't these people have a scientific advisor when coming up with these ideas?
No Andre Bormanis. Sorry.

visose
February 8th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Actually what happened to the Replicator actually would happen. He was high enough in the atmosphere that he would burn up. He was way higher than any skydiver.

We went over this on earlier posts. Someone in the forum made a program that calculated the speed of the replicator factoring atmosphere density and variable gravity. It seemed impossible to happen the way is shown in the episode. I guess he should be much much higher and should have to be accelerating for a long time.
It would be nice if someone who knows about this stuff read this forum, but they probably have better things to do :P

Jill_Ion
February 8th, 2008, 03:05 PM
Darn those brainy scientists and their better things! :mckay:

:lol:

morjana
February 8th, 2008, 03:21 PM
We went over this on earlier posts. Someone in the forum made a program that calculated the speed of the replicator factoring atmosphere density and variable gravity. It seemed impossible to happen the way is shown in the episode. I guess he should be much much higher and should have to be accelerating for a long time.
It would be nice if someone who knows about this stuff read this forum, but they probably have better things to do :P


I'm in the camp that the SFX was accurate.

I'm not a physicist, astronomer, or a rock scientist, but I can search for information.

I looked up:

1) both HALO (High Altitude Low Opening) and HAHO (High Altitude High Opening) for the highest reported altitude these jumpers have, well, jumped, is 25,000 feet.

2) the altitude of the Space Shuttle while in orbit: between 200 and 240 MILES.

Now, there are 5,280 feet per mile.

A HAHO jump of 25,000 feet is approximately 5 miles.

The Space Shuttle (and I would presume, the Daedelus') orbit of 200 MILES is therefore 40 times HIGHER than the HAHO jumper!

As the Replicator fell to Earth, it would have passed through ever increasing atmosphere. More atmosphere = more resistance, drag. More resistance = lots of friction, burning, disintegration. The Replicator only had its arms and legs to help slow down it's re-entry. Obviously, not sufficient to prevent its destruction.

EDIT: Oh, I also researched the five layers of the atmosphere:

http://www.srh.weather.gov/srh/jetstream/atmos/layers.htm

Which are (bottom to top): troposphere (extends 4-12 miles above the earth's surface), statosphere, esosphere, thermosphere and exosphere.

The Space Shuttle is in the thermosphere - ABOVE the Aurora's and the Meteors that we see in the Earth's skies.



Morjana

Jessica Simpson said, "I'm not a rock scientist!"

Clem
February 9th, 2008, 06:33 AM
I can't help but think what they did to Ava was a huge waste.

Instead of letting her live and contribute to the SGC off-screen (which is actually a nifty idea), they "save" her programming and destroy the parts.

All i could think was "you let Teal'c, Teyla and Ronon join your teams you hypocrites..."

Being wasteful seems like a running theme this year. Carter, Weir, Ava...how many characters do you need to write out and ignore.

visose
February 9th, 2008, 06:39 AM
I'm in the camp that the SFX was accurate.

I'm not a physicist, astronomer, or a rock scientist, but I can search for information.

I looked up:

1) both HALO (High Altitude Low Opening) and HAHO (High Altitude High Opening) for the highest reported altitude these jumpers have, well, jumped, is 25,000 feet.

2) the altitude of the Space Shuttle while in orbit: between 200 and 240 MILES.

Now, there are 5,280 feet per mile.

A HAHO jump of 25,000 feet is approximately 5 miles.

The Space Shuttle (and I would presume, the Daedelus') orbit of 200 MILES is therefore 40 times HIGHER than the HAHO jumper!

As the Replicator fell to Earth, it would have passed through ever increasing atmosphere. More atmosphere = more resistance, drag. More resistance = lots of friction, burning, disintegration. The Replicator only had its arms and legs to help slow down it's re-entry. Obviously, not sufficient to prevent its destruction.

EDIT: Oh, I also researched the five layers of the atmosphere:

http://www.srh.weather.gov/srh/jetstream/atmos/layers.htm

Which are (bottom to top): troposphere (extends 4-12 miles above the earth's surface), statosphere, esosphere, thermosphere and exosphere.

The Space Shuttle is in the thermosphere - ABOVE the Aurora's and the Meteors that we see in the Earth's skies.



Morjana

Jessica Simpson said, "I'm not a rock scientist!"



As I said before, on an earlier post a guy actually made a program that calculated the replicators speed that included all this data you mentioned about atmospheric layers, their density and altitude, and the speed wasn't even close than what it should be to start burning in the atmosphere.
I shouldn't have mentioned skydivers in my first post, i know they are much lower, i just wanted to make a point about atmosphere not letting you speed up.

PG15
February 9th, 2008, 10:50 AM
I can't help but think what they did to Ava was a huge waste.

Instead of letting her live and contribute to the SGC off-screen (which is actually a nifty idea), they "save" her programming and destroy the parts.

All i could think was "you let Teal'c, Teyla and Ronon join your teams you hypocrites..."


None of those people can hack into the SGC's computer by inserting their hands into the keyboard.

Get real. They're not going to let a replicator, no matter how hot or trustworthy, within the confines of the SGC.

Easter Lily
February 10th, 2008, 03:53 AM
Well, it's about jolly time... Why did it take them 4 jolly seasons before we got any substantial family backstory on Sheppard?
So our boy was born with a silverspoon... well, I didn't expect that but that he was estranged from his family was less surprising. He had to be... given he hardly talks about them. There are still a lot of questions though, that need answering. Hopefully that'll happen soon.


Overall, very nice! People really need to stop playing with nanites! Bad things happen! lol
All the naughty people need to get smacked and sent to stand in a corner. ;)



As for Joe Flanigan...well...I think he's the best thing since sliced bread!! Such a fab actor.

:)
Sometimes I think he's wasted on this show... they sure don't use him enough, at least not in the way that utilizes all his abilities.

Not a bad episode overall... decent acting and a fun terminatoresque plot for a bit of action.

Pajus
February 26th, 2008, 06:15 AM
Yeah... when I saw that part I was like "OH COME ON......"

Don't these people have a scientific advisor when coming up with these ideas?

With the affronts to physics I've seen in the recent episodes, I think the poor guy has been fired


Actually what happened to the Replicator actually would happen. He was high enough in the atmosphere that he would burn up. He was way higher than any skydiver.

Only in your dreams... And the dreams of the one, who wrote that scene


I'm in the camp that the SFX was accurate.

I'm not a physicist, astronomer, or a rock scientist, but I can search for information.

I looked up:

1) both HALO (High Altitude Low Opening) and HAHO (High Altitude High Opening) for the highest reported altitude these jumpers have, well, jumped, is 25,000 feet.

2) the altitude of the Space Shuttle while in orbit: between 200 and 240 MILES.

Now, there are 5,280 feet per mile.

A HAHO jump of 25,000 feet is approximately 5 miles.

The Space Shuttle (and I would presume, the Daedelus') orbit of 200 MILES is therefore 40 times HIGHER than the HAHO jumper!

As the Replicator fell to Earth, it would have passed through ever increasing atmosphere. More atmosphere = more resistance, drag. More resistance = lots of friction, burning, disintegration. The Replicator only had its arms and legs to help slow down it's re-entry. Obviously, not sufficient to prevent its destruction.

EDIT: Oh, I also researched the five layers of the atmosphere:

http://www.srh.weather.gov/srh/jetstream/atmos/layers.htm

Which are (bottom to top): troposphere (extends 4-12 miles above the earth's surface), statosphere, esosphere, thermosphere and exosphere.

The Space Shuttle is in the thermosphere - ABOVE the Aurora's and the Meteors that we see in the Earth's skies.



Morjana

Jessica Simpson said, "I'm not a rock scientist!"

Here you go. 200 miles coming up
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w273/pajus_photos/Replicator%20Skydiver/ReplicatorSkydiver2.jpg
Once again - not enough. Not by a longshot


As I said before, on an earlier post a guy actually made a program that calculated the replicators speed that included all this data you mentioned about atmospheric layers, their density and altitude, and the speed wasn't even close than what it should be to start burning in the atmosphere.
I shouldn't have mentioned skydivers in my first post, i know they are much lower, i just wanted to make a point about atmosphere not letting you speed up.

It's called "Terminal velocity" and it's app 130 ft/s for objects of human size and weight during a breaking run (eg. you expose as great a surface as you can to aerodynamic resistance) and 250 ft/s during a direct diving run. There is no way you can hit the ground faster during a free fall

slam34
February 27th, 2008, 01:01 PM
About time we got some backstory on John. Just enough to tease, though. Not enough to satisfy. Lot's of delicious family-squabble potential there. This episode opened up a wealth of future possibilities, including John's ex-wife's job and relationship being perfect vehicles to bring her back into Atlantis' story line. Think Rodney's sister or Sam's father. I would love to see Kari Wurher reprise the character. I thought it was well done.

The replicators never needed to outlive the SG1 series. They're like roaches. Stomp'em, spray 'em, nuke'em, burn'em up in the atmosphere, whatever. You'll never get rid of them, hehe. Too convenient and tempting to the writers.

Ronon on earth: always a good idea, and likely more fun in the future.

icelator
March 2nd, 2008, 10:39 PM
Someone may have already said this but if not I need to say this: they have ANTI REPLICATOR WEAPONS in both series. other than that this episode was really good, especially after that godawful last episode.

morjana
May 25th, 2008, 08:25 PM
As I said before, on an earlier post a guy actually made a program that calculated the replicators speed that included all this data you mentioned about atmospheric layers, their density and altitude, and the speed wasn't even close than what it should be to start burning in the atmosphere.
I shouldn't have mentioned skydivers in my first post, i know they are much lower, i just wanted to make a point about atmosphere not letting you speed up.

Saw this article posted today and remembered this debate in "Outcast:"

French skydiver prepares for record jump from 40km (25 miles)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080526/en_afp/canadafrancespaceparachute

NORTH BATTLEFORD, Canada (AFP) - French skydiver Michel Fournier takes his life in his hands when, weather permitting, he leaps from a balloon 40 kilometres (25 miles) above Canada's western plains.


The 64-year-old parachutist said it was his life's dream to make the record jump, which will begin at the outer reaches of the stratosphere -- about four times higher than the cruising altitude of a commercial jet.

Fournier spent Sunday resting and making the final arrangements in the small city of North Battleford, Saskatchewan, from where he will head up into the heavens in a stratospheric balloon and then throw himself off.

He will be wearing a pressurized suit capable of withstanding temperatures of minus 100 degrees Celsius (minus 148 Fahrenheit) as he hurtles to Earth at more than 1,500 kilometers per hour.

If he succeeds, Fournier will actually break four world records: for fastest freefall, longest freefall, highest jump, and highest altitude reached by a man in a balloon. It could also someday lead to rescuing astronauts in-flight.

His team leader, Richard Correa, said the moment just after take-off was the most risky, as it would be impossible to eject during the balloon's ascent.

But if Fournier loses consciousness during the jump, his parachute will automatically open.

The team will decide at 2:30am (0830 GMT) whether the weather conditions are right for the venture, which is estimated to take about three hours in total, in addition to two hours for preparation. Rain was falling late Sunday.

"This project is a great scientific and human challenge," said Fournier, a former military officer. "This is my baby, my dream. I just want to realize my dream."

His latest skydiving attempt, several years in the works, comes after two unsuccessful jumps in 2002 and 2003 and speaks to his determination. His balloon tore the last time, but he bought a new one for this trial.

If all goes well, Fournier is expected to land some 30 kilometers southwest of North Battleford -- chosen for its remote location in case something goes wrong with the balloon -- where a helicopter will be waiting to pick him up.

Before Fournier, in 1960 American Joseph Kittinger jumped from 31,333 meters as part of a medical experiment, and in 1962 Russian Evgueni Andreiev jumped from 24,483 meters to set a world free-fall record.

Pajus
May 25th, 2008, 11:10 PM
Saw this article posted today and remembered this debate in "Outcast:"

French skydiver prepares for record jump from 40km (25 miles)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080526/en_afp/canadafrancespaceparachute

NORTH BATTLEFORD, Canada (AFP) - French skydiver Michel Fournier takes his life in his hands when, weather permitting, he leaps from a balloon 40 kilometres (25 miles) above Canada's western plains.


The 64-year-old parachutist said it was his life's dream to make the record jump, which will begin at the outer reaches of the stratosphere -- about four times higher than the cruising altitude of a commercial jet.

Fournier spent Sunday resting and making the final arrangements in the small city of North Battleford, Saskatchewan, from where he will head up into the heavens in a stratospheric balloon and then throw himself off.

He will be wearing a pressurized suit capable of withstanding temperatures of minus 100 degrees Celsius (minus 148 Fahrenheit) as he hurtles to Earth at more than 1,500 kilometers per hour.

If he succeeds, Fournier will actually break four world records: for fastest freefall, longest freefall, highest jump, and highest altitude reached by a man in a balloon. It could also someday lead to rescuing astronauts in-flight.

His team leader, Richard Correa, said the moment just after take-off was the most risky, as it would be impossible to eject during the balloon's ascent.

But if Fournier loses consciousness during the jump, his parachute will automatically open.

The team will decide at 2:30am (0830 GMT) whether the weather conditions are right for the venture, which is estimated to take about three hours in total, in addition to two hours for preparation. Rain was falling late Sunday.

"This project is a great scientific and human challenge," said Fournier, a former military officer. "This is my baby, my dream. I just want to realize my dream."

His latest skydiving attempt, several years in the works, comes after two unsuccessful jumps in 2002 and 2003 and speaks to his determination. His balloon tore the last time, but he bought a new one for this trial.

If all goes well, Fournier is expected to land some 30 kilometers southwest of North Battleford -- chosen for its remote location in case something goes wrong with the balloon -- where a helicopter will be waiting to pick him up.

Before Fournier, in 1960 American Joseph Kittinger jumped from 31,333 meters as part of a medical experiment, and in 1962 Russian Evgueni Andreiev jumped from 24,483 meters to set a world free-fall record.

Okay, let's see how accurate The Skydiver actually is:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w273/pajus_photos/Replicator%20Skydiver/FrenchGuy.jpg

SQUEEEEEEEEE It's very accurate

Arica12
May 29th, 2008, 11:40 AM
About time we got some backstory on John. Just enough to tease, though. Not enough to satisfy. Lot's of delicious family-squabble potential there. This episode opened up a wealth of future possibilities, including John's ex-wife's job and relationship being perfect vehicles to bring her back into Atlantis' story line. Think Rodney's sister or Sam's father. I would love to see Kari Wurher reprise the character. I thought it was well done.

The replicators never needed to outlive the SG1 series. They're like roaches. Stomp'em, spray 'em, nuke'em, burn'em up in the atmosphere, whatever. You'll never get rid of them, hehe. Too convenient and tempting to the writers.

Ronon on earth: always a good idea, and likely more fun in the future.

I agree I really liked Nancy and i thought i would hate her - would love to see more of her, she's a good foil for Shep.

jenks
May 29th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I've only just noticed that she's the same actress that played Tanya (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O4OPuXFfmbg) on Red Alert 2!

RononXSpecialist
November 6th, 2008, 02:33 AM
Definitly a favorite, good action scene with Ronon and the Replicator, after the Replictor hit Ave in the head with the Oxygen tank and threw her against the pallet Ronon came up and punched him in the face 3 times as hard as he could. :O THAT WAS INTENSE. And wow Doctor Lee was SOOO BURNT.

Orion25
December 21st, 2008, 05:53 PM
I loved the back story and I hope Sheppard and his brother had patched up to clear the air.

I didn't see Ava as an advanced replicator model at all. I enjoyed that twist in the story. One thing I noted, was when Lee said that he had cracked Dr. Poole's passwords, we got a close up shot of Ava. It appeared to me that it was hint that the team will be finding the real Ava information because repli-Ava's expression was neutral, innocent as if there won't be anything otherwise. I don't recall her saying an apology afterward to Sheppard that she was replicator, has she? I may have missed it.

Anyway, I was hoping Ava would tell the colonel something along this vein, "I know working along side a replicator is very long journey to come, but in case you need my help again to fight against the other Replicators, do look me up?" Haha, I'm creating my own fanfic. I don't think Sheppard would ever entertain such a suggestion but who knows what the future could bring.

Another thing, for me, I think Ava knows and even understands why she is in the VR world. She had seen what the team did to the rogue replicator. It wasn't said much, only it was left to our imaginations. I felt it was hint that she knew and since she was equipped with emotions, moral code etc. She realized that this was the best option for her until such a time they'll let her out of the VR world. Maybe the SGC could develop an anti-reprogramming code for Ava in the future.

Do you think we'll see her in one episode in Stargate: Universe? :)

Yanks4Life23519
January 16th, 2009, 11:00 AM
In this episode, I love how Ronon knows when he needs to leave and give John his personal space. He first does it when Sheppard is standing over his dad's casket; you can see Ronon come in but he immediately leaves, knowing John wanted some alone time. He also did it after Sheppard introduces Ronon to his ex-wife...he meets her then kind of drifts off. I like that about Ronon.

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 11:52 AM
In this episode, I love how Ronon knows when he needs to leave and give John his personal space. He first does it when Sheppard is standing over his dad's casket; you can see Ronon come in but he immediately leaves, knowing John wanted some alone time. He also did it after Sheppard introduces Ronon to his ex-wife...he meets her then kind of drifts off. I like that about Ronon.

yeah me too, ronan in a suit is always amazing though

Jumper_One
March 29th, 2009, 07:23 PM
Jedi43 writes: “Quick question, who played John’s dead father in the wake picture in “Outcast”?”

Answer: Someone we hired to play the role (in the picture).
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/march-29-2009-my-foray-into-harlequin-romance-international-sf-a-gentle-reading-reminder-the-next-one-is-going-to-hurt-my-final-four-pick-a-fursome-surprise-visitor-and-the-mailbag-whew/

major davis
May 4th, 2009, 04:57 PM
One of the best and most professionally shot episodes i have ever seen.

9.5/10

Ragitsu
July 6th, 2010, 11:44 PM
His ex wife's name is re-entry?

Falcon Horus
July 7th, 2010, 09:19 AM
His ex wife's name is re-entry?

Err... what? *iz confuzzled*

mrscopterdoc
September 8th, 2010, 04:10 PM
Not one of my favorite episodes although seeing Ronon in jeans is always nice :P

fumblesmcstupid
September 13th, 2010, 03:14 AM
is John older or younger? I think younger!

maneth
February 19th, 2011, 09:43 AM
I think so too. Cool ep, loved the replicators and the Terminator jokes.

Blizzah
June 21st, 2011, 08:58 AM
It is weird having so little Rodney but it was a good episode. Was definitely influenced by T2 and the replicator fight scene was awesome.

I have often wondered about Shep's life back on earth so it was interesting to have this story. I find that the earth episodes make you realize just how trivial some problems can be in day to day life when taken in the context of cullings. I thought Shep's reaction to his brothers accusation (that he was back for the money) very genuine and it could not have been more wrong. Like who needs money when you are saving the galaxy or multiple galaxies.

Mirelinde
October 18th, 2011, 10:52 AM
But I'm pity for this replicator... it wasn't his fault he has been created "over law", he simply wanted to live!
And pity for Ava too: in "matrix" clever person will understand finally that the world is not real, she is not a fool...

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 21st, 2012, 03:03 PM
Average episode.


Nice to see Bates again
Forgot Emma was in this one the first time around, though her accent slipped a couple of times I notes
The score was amazing, incorporating the Replicator theme. Kudos to Joel (RIP) and Neal


Monday, 3 doctors (one in the military, a medical doctor, and one with a giant ego) get trapped in a building. This is an episode I remember.

Krisz
September 23rd, 2012, 08:13 PM
What is it with various people building replicators?! They are bad news, when will people learn?! :P

More sympathy for the devil here with the female replicator, giving her a virtual life rather than destroying her completely.

It was good to see some back story for Sheppard. So he escaped from the rich kid world! Loved the looks Ronon got! He looked wonderfully out of place at the funeral and handled it well, it was for me, not really being a Ronon fan one of the best Ronon moments. Just made a nice change from the 'killing things' mode he's in for most of the time.

Matt G
September 25th, 2012, 02:06 PM
MIdweek...another ep of Atlantis...

1. Again the Atlantis crew wind up on Earth, looking back this felt more like an SG1 episode, surprised Ava didn't try to contact the SGC.

2. Poole was seriously naive.

3. Also not sure how you program in empathy.

Still, a solid ep.

Lythisrose
September 27th, 2012, 09:50 PM
From Joe Mallozzi's Blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/september-24-2012-the-doggy-update-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-outcast/):

photo of Nancy, John, Ronon: http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/outcast.jpg

OUTCAST (415)

Actor Joe Flanigan came to us with a story idea. He wanted to do an episode in which Sheppard teams up with Ronon to hunt an escaped human-form replicator on Earth. That intriguing notion resulted in Outcast, an episode that not only saw Sheppard and Ronon teaming up to hunt down an escaped human-form replicator on Earth, but also allowed us a rare opportunity to explore Sheppard’s backstory. I love episodes that allow us fresh insight into our characters and, for that reason, Outcast stands out as one of my favorites of the show’s fourth season.

The character of Nancy, played by Kari Wuhrer, was briefly considered as a possible candidate to succeed Samantha Carter as commander of the Atlantis expedition.

The winner of a walk-on role appears at the buffet line scene early in the episode, smiling amiably as Ronon loads up.

Our fearless stunt coordinator, James “Bam Bam” Bamford took it upon himself to execute the crazy replicator high fall escape in the middle of the episode. Crazy.
Photos:
Director Andy Mikita (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1103.jpg)

We weren’t counting on rain for that “a walk in the park” scene. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1104.jpg)

A break in the downpour. Quick! Shoot it! (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1105.jpg)

Kari Wuhrer was terrific as John’s ex. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1106.jpg)

Going over the final scene in the chill late September weather. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1107.jpg)

The run-through. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1108.jpg)

Waiting to shoot. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1109.jpg)

Setting up the replicator beam out. (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1110.jpg)

A sun-burned Dr. Lee (http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1111.jpg)

Vids:
U.F.O.
http://videos.videopress.com/vXGAkfuf/m2u00111_dvd.mp4

The Replicator Plunge:
http://videos.videopress.com/eUM6xN2w/replicator-free-fall_dvd.mp4

Lieutenant Sparrow
September 28th, 2012, 02:05 AM
Well all the eps on this disc have been very average.

I just hate earth based eps really.

Ronon looked so out of place.

Bates. Forgot how he even left Atlantis.

Sheps brother. What an ass.

Falcon Horus
September 28th, 2012, 12:29 PM
The character of Nancy, played by Kari Wuhrer, was briefly considered as a possible candidate to succeed Samantha Carter as commander of the Atlantis expedition.

Now that I would have loved to have seen... :p

Arica15
September 28th, 2012, 01:38 PM
Now that I would have loved to have seen... :p

You and me both.........another fabulous opportunity exclusively not brought to you by TPTB!

Falcon Horus
September 28th, 2012, 02:16 PM
.........another fabulous opportunity exclusively not brought to you by TPTB!

I bet you anything they have a copyright on it.

Arica15
September 28th, 2012, 11:00 PM
I bet you anything they have a copyright on it.

Oh Probably.

This is the most frustrating thing about TPTB; the more and more you hear about the decisions they made in the last two years of SGA the more and more you realise that the problem was not that they didn't have good ideas any more, it was that they didn't use them. Every time instead of using the challenging and difficult storyline they picked the easy straight forward route..........GRRRR!!!!!!

jelgate
September 30th, 2012, 05:54 PM
I remember on GW when this episode aired one Physics poster said the Replicator would survive the rentry. Another Physics person said the person was full of dren (Farscape term) and the Replicator would burn up. To this day I do not know who is right. Overall its not good but its not bad. I was disappointed on the Sheppherd background we got for this For years we had no insight who Shepphed was before he joined the expedition. With a lot of the other Earth people we knew some of their background but nothing for the lead. I was excited of the promise of the development of Shepphed but was disappointed on the revelations we actually got in this episode. Too much time was devoted to chasing the rogue Replicator. That part of the story was not too bad. It was action enough to keep me enough and I liked the surprise that Ava was a Replicator. I also like the solution of beaming him into space regardless of whatevver the realism. of the solution. Ronon had no purpose in this episode. Although that is Ronon 90% of the time

Matt G
October 1st, 2012, 02:04 PM
Now that I would have loved to have seen... :p

The personal dynamics would have been interesting but do we even have any idea what her skillset was like? At this point she didn't even seem to have heard of the Stargate. Now Woolsey may have had bad history with our guys but at least he had plenty of Gate experience.

Arica15
October 2nd, 2012, 01:39 AM
The personal dynamics would have been interesting but do we even have any idea what her skillset was like? At this point she didn't even seem to have heard of the Stargate. Now Woolsey may have had bad history with our guys but at least he had plenty of Gate experience.

Well it would have been a completely new challenge. And given that she seemed to be a pretty senior intelligence agent/analyst I think we can assume that she had a pretty high skillset.

But personally I think it might have been what Atlantis needed in Season 5. It would have brought the relationship between Sheppard and the head of the expedition back to the centre of the show (which in Season 1 was a definite plus point). It would also have been fascinating to watch a former couple - who given what was seen in Outcast - who still at least care what happens to each other struggle to adapt to a highly professional and highly stressful environment.

As I say I would loved to have seen it; but then I was always partial to a bit of Shep whump, be it physical or emotional.;)

Matt G
October 2nd, 2012, 04:29 AM
Even if she is a senior agent...the US government(let alone any other governments) have w holad of those type of people on the books. Weir was a really big name in diplomatic circles. Sam was...a veteran of the legendary SG1 team and scientific genius. Woolsey...was the IOA man with the most offworld experience.

Nancy...was a relative nobody compared to those three. No doubt competent and maybe in a pinch capable of running Atlantis but I doubt she'd have even been well enough known to the IOA to make the shortlist.

Lythisrose
October 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
Even if she is a senior agent...the US government(let alone any other governments) have w holad of those type of people on the books. Weir was a really big name in diplomatic circles. Sam was...a veteran of the legendary SG1 team and scientific genius. Woolsey...was the IOA man with the most offworld experience.

Nancy...was a relative nobody compared to those three. No doubt competent and maybe in a pinch capable of running Atlantis but I doubt she'd have even been well enough known to the IOA to make the shortlist.

But they could have written her any history they wanted to in order to make her an acceptable candidate.
See Cam Mitchell.... oh, wait...:P

I honestly would have loved to see Nancy again.