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GateWorld
January 29th, 2008, 04:08 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s4/index.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/407.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s4/index.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">JI YEON</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 407</FONT>
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Unable to trust their "rescuers," Sun decides to move to Locke's camp -- prompting Juliet to do everything in her power to keep her and Jin with the beach camp. Sayid and Desmond meet the captain of the freighter face-to-face.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s4/index.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

padr49904
March 13th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Great episode, i'm likeing the end a lot.

Can someone tell me what they were saying when she was having her baby? A thunderstorm warning thing was going across the screen the whole time and it covered the words up.

Amalthea
March 13th, 2008, 06:12 PM
:eek: I am so crushed! How shocking was that?! So sad.

I got pretty angry during the whole flashback flashforward confusingness, but then it was just sad. Great episode! Can't wait for next week.

In response to the previous poster, if you mean the doctors, they just told her that he wasn't here yet, and that they might have to do a c-section, she didn't want one, but then the baby came anyway.

Up here some preview for Dancing With the Stars obscured her and Jin's heart to heart, but I got the gist of it anyway. How annoying is that!

SierraGulf1
March 13th, 2008, 06:15 PM
The ending did confuse me a bit... Did Jin fake his own death? It would be unusual and unlikely that the flashforwards of Jin and Sun would take place at different time periods, but then again I've also heard that one of the Oceanic Six would die, not just be thought dead. It's got me wondering.

But as interested as I am in that, Michael's return has me much more interested. I think the way they brought him back was perfect: it wasn't overly dramatic, there was very little build-up (except for the slow walk-up toward the camera, which enhanced it further given unspoiled folk would come to the realization around the same time as Sayid) so that it was just as much a slap in the face to the viewer as it was to Sayid. The "introduction" between Michael and Sayid was well done, and I look forward to some unrestrained confrontation next week.

Throw in the ending, Bernard/Jin moment (albeit it did seem like a plot device), the Sun/Jin moments, and the Juliet/Sun moments, and you've got an excellent episode. Early season three was clearly a temporary slump; Lost continues to deliver week after week.

Suzotchka
March 13th, 2008, 06:22 PM
Yea, I'm totally confused about why Jin and Sun aren't together? Is he in an AU or did he go crazy upon returning and not remember Sun?

Skydiver
March 13th, 2008, 06:46 PM
i was under the impression that jin's dash to the hospital was in the past...cause he was working for sun's dad, which i don't see him doing now.

I didn't catch the date on the tombstone, but i got the idea that jin died/is going to die, getting sun and the baby off hte island

so sun is one of the oceanic six with hurley, jack and kate.

SierraGulf1
March 13th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Actually, that clears up quite a bit, Skydiver. Jin's parts were flashbacks while Sun's parts were flashforwards. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Jin's fate is sealed, then, at some point or another. Glad he's still around for a while, though.

JayShadow
March 13th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Jin's was a flashback to 2000, because of the year of the dragon reference when he was buying stuffed animals.

Date on the tombstone was the day of the plane crash, so something is very fishy with his "death".

TheGreatLordGeorge
March 13th, 2008, 08:52 PM
That is actually a question I have. Is the future we are shown set in stone?

warmbeachbrat
March 13th, 2008, 09:07 PM
*mops up tears* That was SO sad....:(

JayShadow
March 13th, 2008, 09:40 PM
That is actually a question I have. Is the future we are shown set in stone?

Yes. That's why they mentioned that whole course correction thing in last year's Desmond episode. So that you know what we see in the future won't change.

memnarch
March 14th, 2008, 12:43 AM
NOOOOOOOO!!!! NOT JIN!!!! Jin's a great character whom I will miss when he dies. Luckily though, that won't happen for a while yet. It's good that he's not off the show. Yet. The preview for episode 8 did say that "someone will die." Who that is...well...Also, I think it's rather interesting that Hurley was the only one who came to the funeral...Although, it could be that Jack was engaged at a hospital, Kate couldn't leave California, and Sayid was off killing for Ben. I guess we're supposed to assume too that Jin was the last of the Oceanic Six, since he had a grave, but still, it could've been merely a symbol of his death on Island.

Anyway, on to the other major event in the episode: Michael. I suspected, as soon as Naomi was introduced, that Michael was on the Freighter and that he was Ben's spy when that was brought up in the premiere. As for why he's there and how...well, prepare for some spoilers, some of which are concrete and some are merely speculation:

A few sneak peaks have been made available (already!) for the next episode. They're located here: http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/
In the second one, Michael is confronted by Sayid on the deck of the Freighter and is asked why he's there. Michael answers cryptically that he's "there to die." I believe that Michael may be there to destroy the Freighter for Ben. I'm also relatively certain that Michael's story has something to do with time travel, although I'm not sure whether he went to the future or the past. This also accounts for Walt's increased age when appearing to people on the Island. Although, I can't imagine why Michael would be there to die if Walt was still alive though...

Anyway, in regards to the bloodstain in Sayid and Desmond's new...I hesitate to call them accommodations...the angle of the blood on the wall seems to indicate that the person who died there either shot themselves or was shot by someone. And given the attitude of the captain, I'd say the latter's rather likely.

Overall, **1/2 stars

MarshAngel
March 14th, 2008, 04:12 AM
*mops up tears* That was SO sad....:(

I know. It made me cry too.
It was sad and beautiful but leaves the question....how did he die?
And another question...wouldn't the date of his death mess with her "supposed" conception date?

Suzotchka
March 14th, 2008, 05:04 AM
The date on Jin's tombstone is Sept 2004 - the day the plane crashed. So I believe that it's possible that Jin is still alive on the island because we know that he did survive the crash.

Aren't we missing 1 of the Oceanic 6? We have: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun and Sayid. Aaron can't count because he wasn't on the passenger list. Michael is off the island, but he is only on the boat. So we still need 1 more person to be revealed. Am I right in thinking that?

Suzotchka
March 14th, 2008, 06:47 AM
Just had another thought - could it be Jin that is in the coffin??

Skydiver
March 14th, 2008, 07:12 AM
i don't think it's jin. the coffin person had no one to mourn them, jin would.

Suzotchka
March 14th, 2008, 07:20 AM
i don't think it's jin. the coffin person had no one to mourn them, jin would.

True. But it is a man that's in the coffin. The scrap of newspaper that Jack carries around refers to the body of a man being found.

Erised
March 14th, 2008, 07:46 AM
I'm so confused!!

Skydiver
March 14th, 2008, 09:01 AM
that's just how they like it :)

JayShadow
March 14th, 2008, 09:44 AM
Aren't we missing 1 of the Oceanic 6? We have: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun and Sayid. Aaron can't count because he wasn't on the passenger list.

Oceanic 6 sounds like a media invention. I doubt the media cared about the technicalities and thought it was easier to call them the Oceanic 6 instead of the Oceanic 5 and one kid that was born on the island.

mizzoueng
March 14th, 2008, 10:33 AM
So Jin isn't one of the Oceanic 6?

Do remember that according to the story Jack told on the stand that 8 survived the crash but only 6 made it back to the mainland. We still don't know who that is.

The whole flashforward/flashback was just mean on the writers part. I had all my hopes up for Jin and Sun, especially him being a father now when he was nearly sterile before the crash. But when he said he was only married for "2 months" I knew it was a flashback. good catch on the year of the dragon though!

Does anyone have a screen cap of his tombstone? I thought it said October 29th 2004?

lastly, I don't think Aaron counts. I know the media would count him, but I think there is one more person out there alive.

JayShadow
March 14th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Do remember that according to the story Jack told on the stand that 8 survived the crash but only 6 made it back to the mainland. We still don't know who that is.

lastly, I don't think Aaron counts. I know the media would count him, but I think there is one more person out there alive.

A few things that the producers have mentioned leading up to now. First they said the 2 that didn't survive in the cover story aren't really important. It just sounded better than saying 6 survived and all of them got off. They could always change that in the future, but as of now it's not important.

They also said we'd know all 6 after last night's episode.

As for the tombstone, sorry for the size, but I made it optional at least :)
9/22. Day of the crash.
http://lost.cubit.net/s4inv/4x07_tombstone.jpg

Suzotchka
March 14th, 2008, 01:41 PM
what also confuses me is that Aaron looks to be about 3 (?) years old while Sun just had her baby. So that begs the question of just when do each of them get off the island?

Aaron is calling Kate mommy. So he obviously doesn't remember Claire (If the Aaron in question is indeed Clarie's and not Kate's own child she named Aaron). So were Aaron/Kate rescued now or in 3 years?

Does anyone know the timeline of the flash forwards? Obviously Sun's would have to be one of the first since she needed to get off the island within 3 weeks or so.

ItsDan
March 14th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Does anyone know the timeline of the flash forwards? Obviously Sun's would have to be one of the first since she needed to get off the island within 3 weeks or so.

She needed to be off the island within 3 weeks, but she wouldn't have had the kid for a number of months after that. Decyphering the order these things happen is has become part of the mystery.

Skydiver
March 14th, 2008, 04:09 PM
she'd have had the kid within 3-4 months after gettinig off the island.

juliette said that they all develop issues in the middle of their second trimester - month 5 or so - and since gestation lasts 9 months, sun's flashback was no more than 4 months down the road

marty2006
March 14th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Another quality episode i had a feeling jin wasnt heading to the hospital to meet sun but i couldnt believe the twist they pulled off with it being a flashforward and a flashback also with jin apparently being dead didnt see it coming, anyone else notice sun was watching a re-run of nikkis tv show in her flashforward or atleast thats what was on the tv anyway as she switched it off.

JayShadow
March 14th, 2008, 11:13 PM
what also confuses me is that Aaron looks to be about 3 (?) years old while Sun just had her baby. So that begs the question of just when do each of them get off the island?

Does anyone know the timeline of the flash forwards?

They all get off at the same time, which is why they're the Oceanic 6. Your confusion seems to be that you're assuming their flash forwards take place close together, when in several cases a lot of time has passed. They're exactly like flashbacks in that way. They don't line up at one set time for all of them.

So Sun's flashback would be the first, and Jack's would be the last. Everyone else falls somewhere in between where it's hard to tell without more reference points. I'm sure future episodes with flash forwards will make it easier to pinpoint when everything happens.

Nyarlathotep
March 15th, 2008, 01:21 AM
Aren't we missing 1 of the Oceanic 6? We have: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun and Sayid. Aaron can't count because he wasn't on the passenger list. Michael is off the island, but he is only on the boat. So we still need 1 more person to be revealed. Am I right in thinking that?

I don't think we can count Sayid as one of the 6 yet - as he is working for Ben it is possible Ben is allowing him off the Island and that he was not 'rescued' with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sun...

Aerilon
March 15th, 2008, 02:50 AM
I was under the impression that the '6' were officially named as Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, Sun and Jin. I have doubts that Jin has faked his own death either... Something just doesn't add up with that.

Anyway, that episode was well sad, especially toward the end, when we found out what Jin had in fact died.

I was a little 'WTF' when Hurley turned up, I thought him and Sun had a relationship going or something... Wasn't until they were shown in the cemetary that it all became clear. Was a very sad ending, shame to see Jin dead also. I doubt though, that his death is faked. I doubt he'd leave Sun, and she seemed quite genuine in the fact she was crying and what not..

I liked how they had the stories from both Jun and Suns perspective, yet being set in different time frames. Wasn't until near the end, that we figured out it was different. I would guess, that Jin's death, has something to do with the family of whom he gave the Panda. Either that, or it was one of the people Sayid & Ben are out to get.

The whole Michael / Walt storyline should seriously pick up next week too.. Can't wait to see that.

Suzotchka
March 15th, 2008, 05:52 AM
I don't think we can count Sayid as one of the 6 yet - as he is working for Ben it is possible Ben is allowing him off the Island and that he was not 'rescued' with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sun...

Well they said that the episode Ji Yeon would confirm the last of the "Oceanic 6" so I'm pretty sure that the 6 are: Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun, Aaron, Hurley.

Others such as Juliet or Desmond might get off the island but are not part of the 6. I hope Juliet makes it off the island. I like her!

And we still don't know what happened to the 2 kids who were taken by the others right after the plane wreck, right? We saw them briefly when Sawyer and Kate were being held. And speaking of which, where are the rest of Ben's friends?

SoulReaver
March 15th, 2008, 06:20 AM
Lost continues to deliver week after week.this episode "delivered" all right http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif

Dusk
March 15th, 2008, 06:41 AM
Why are people confused about Jin? He's surely not dead. The Oceanic 6 are covering up for all those they left back on the island. I'm sure Jin is still there, with Locke and the others. So yes it was sad that he missed his daughter's birth, but they will be reunited in the future.

MICHAEL! At last! I had almost forgot what he did before we last saw him, but then it all came back. Tsk tsk, nasty nasty.

Hurley flying to Seoul to see Sun and Ji Yeon was touching, and it is interesting to note that the big guy is relieved nobody else was going to be there, as if he was on bad terms with the other 4.

I was expecting to see much more of Regina. Shame.

10/10 to the set decorators, the scenes in Seoul were brilliant!


And speaking of which, where are the rest of Ben's friends?

I believe we will be exploring that in the back-half of this season.

And finally, I think I have figured out the mystery of the plane full of people at the bottom of the ocean, BUT, I'm not going to say, since I respect fans of this show enough to not dribble spoilers.

But for those of you at least wanting a clue...

Take note of the pilot as seen in "Confirmed Dead" and then become familiar with the branch of particle physics known as supersymmetry... good luck!

Suzotchka
March 15th, 2008, 07:08 AM
Why are people confused about Jin? He's surely not dead. The Oceanic 6 are covering up for all those they left back on the island. I'm sure Jin is still there, with Locke and the others. So yes it was sad that he missed his daughter's birth, but they will be reunited in the future.


How do you know he's not dead? There could've been a tragic accident on the island.

I like Jin, and I really hope he's NOT dead. But right now, it can go either way.

Why would Sun have a grave for him if he's not dead?

warmbeachbrat
March 15th, 2008, 07:16 AM
I don't think we can count Sayid as one of the 6 yet - as he is working for Ben it is possible Ben is allowing him off the Island and that he was not 'rescued' with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sun...

Didn't Sayid say to that guy he killed on he golf course that he was one of the Oceanic 6?

Nyarlathotep
March 15th, 2008, 08:17 AM
Didn't Sayid say to that guy he killed on he golf course that he was one of the Oceanic 6?

I think you're right :) I stand corrected!

As for the producers annoncing stuff about the final one of the 6 being revealed - I try not to read stuff like that as I prefer each episode to be as much of a surprise as possible (so I was kind of gutted to read here that the preview for next week announced someone was going to die - I'd rather not have known that at all! :) ).

dosed150
March 15th, 2008, 10:24 AM
How do you know he's not dead? There could've been a tragic accident on the island.

I like Jin, and I really hope he's NOT dead. But right now, it can go either way.

Why would Sun have a grave for him if he's not dead?

the grave could just be a cover up but the way sun called out for jin and how upset she was when she was just with hurley makes it look real, why would she have to pretend in front of hurley

GATEGOD
March 15th, 2008, 10:51 AM
This episode made me so sad. I so wanted Jin to get off the Island. From what I could make out the Jin with the Panda was from the past ? Idk I watched it where I couldn't read any of the translations so I don't know what they were saying.. for the entire ep .. but I got the jist of it. So Jin wasn't one of the survivors?

Amalthea
March 15th, 2008, 12:49 PM
Why would Hurley go to all the trouble of flying to Seoul to comfort Sun at Jin's grave if Jin wasn't really dead? It's wishful thinking to think he's alive.

Therefore, I would argue that Jin is not an Oceanic 6, and rather Michael is the 6th and he's the one in the coffin. I imagine in an attempt to escape, something goes horribly wrong, it's Michael's fault, Jin and possibly Claire die in the ensuing struggle. Thus, they have to make some cover story and what we've heard so far is it.

I think the timeline goes something like this:
1. Sayid goes to work for Ben
2. Sun has the baby
3. Kate goes to trial
4. Hurley goes to the mental hospital
5. Michael's body is found/Jack goes nuts

JayShadow
March 15th, 2008, 01:03 PM
the grave could just be a cover up but the way sun called out for jin and how upset she was when she was just with hurley makes it look real, why would she have to pretend in front of hurley

There's always the possibility that the Oceanic 6 think he's dead too due to whatever happened getting off the island. Not enough to go on. Still 50/50 to me.

memnarch
March 15th, 2008, 03:27 PM
OKAY, SO IT'S BEEN CONFIRMED!!! AARON WAS ONE OF THE OCEANIC SIX, SO JIN WAS NOT COUNTED AMONG THEM. ANYONE ELSE WHO GETS OFF THE ISLAND WILL NOT BE COUNTED AMONG THEM. Here's the list:

Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Aaron, Sun

+Ben...

Dusk
March 15th, 2008, 05:26 PM
He's not dead. I'll place a few hundred thousand won on it! There are so many ways that Sun and Hurley could be under the impression Jin is dead but he's really still alive. Or maybe they were being watched, and it's all about keeping up appearances. Come on, as if someone isn't keeping tabs on the Oceanic 6. Besides, the REAL death happens next week, as per the previews.

mizzoueng
March 15th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Thanks for the screencap! green!

Last thing, what does the tombstone say? I would assume there is something next to birthdate, perhaps her name? But Jin's didn't look like hers at all.....

Skydiver
March 15th, 2008, 06:48 PM
for all we know, sun and hurley KNOW that jin isn't really dead..but they have to pretend that he is to protect him

LoneStar1836
March 16th, 2008, 12:16 PM
Good episode.

I think Jin is dead and that he dies on the island :(, but not in next week's episode. I think that will be someone else. I suppose Sun could be trying to give the appearance that Jin is gone, but the feelings seemed too real. If I knew the person was still alive, I wouldn't be going to their fake grave to introduce the baby. *shrug* I guess with this show you can't be sure about things which seem to appear to be obvious. :D

Though I kept thinking that they might pull a fast one and not reveal Michael as the Ben insider on the boat. His name has kept being in the opening credits and he was the obvious one, but I thought that just maybe they might have a different reveal. So if they went with the obvious reveal there, then they might just have Jin be the advertised death next week.


Okay so Michael is the final one of the Oceanic 6 (and it seems to be shaping up that way...dang I was so hoping that was Ben in that coffin.) I was thinking that Ji Yeon could be considered the 6th, but if Aaron is not, then she is not.

ItsDan
March 16th, 2008, 05:19 PM
Jin saying he'd do anything to protect the baby and Sun is pretty clear foreshadowing. Jin I suspect will die on their way off the island, or shortly after arriving home, and do so in a way that protects his family.

Darren
March 16th, 2008, 06:07 PM
I think the whole episode is a doube red herring. We're meant to think that Jin survived and we're seeing his flash-forwards, only to learn that he died. Red herring. In fact, I think that move itself is a red herring.

You can't escape the date of death on the coffin: September 22, 2004. (What is the 1980 date on the left?!) That means he is NOT one of the Oceanic Six, and is in fact part of the island cover-up (everybody but 8 died in the crash).

Jin could in truth be alive or dead. He could have remained behind on the island (perhaps by choice, in order to get Sun off under still unknown circumstances). In that case, Sun is grieving the fact that they are apart and she may never see him again. Or he could have been killed at some point before Sun left, so that her grieving for him is about his death.

Remember, Boone probably has a grave marker saying "09-22-2004" as well. And he didn't die on that day.

Suzotchka
March 16th, 2008, 06:24 PM
You can't escape the date of death on the coffin: September 22, 2004. (What is the 1980 date on the left?!) That means he is NOT one of the Oceanic Six, and is in fact part of the island cover-up (everybody but 8 died in the crash).


The 1980 date is for Sun's date of birth. It must be a a place/marker where they would both be buried.

Wyrminarrd
March 17th, 2008, 02:28 AM
The writers have set things up nicely for them selves, they can either kill Jin and say "Hey, we prepared you all for this!" or they can keep him alive and say that it was all part of the cover up. My personal guess is that Jin is still alive but part of some bargain that got Sun of the island involves Jin never getting to leave, thus being as good as dead to Sun. I also thing that the grave scene was staged by Sun and Hurley in order to cover for Sun´s crying out for Jin.

I have to say that the flashbacks/flashforwards completely fooled me, so congratz to the writers there.

Micheal... I really hope he´s the one in the coffin, that guy just deserves an unattented funeral.

Mike1989
March 17th, 2008, 12:20 PM
I hope that Jin doesn't die he is one of my favourite characters. But it is possible he does die but it would have to be on the island or the boat. As I cannot see Jin being the one in the coffin over in the States, nor can I see Jin not being there for his wife. So it either means he dies on the Island or he died when they got back. Now the one thing which made me wonder was the date on the grave stone it said the date the plane crashed, therefore Jin cannot have escaped the island. As if he died off the island that would have been the date on his grave, combined with the fact that he was one of the oceanic six...

So I suppose in retrospect he coudl be dead, in the sense he was in the one in the coffin and as such no one knew him and didn't come to the funeral. But Jack said he wasn't a friend and I think Jin would be classed as a friend to Jack after all they have been through a lot. So my best bet is that JIn never escaped the island but could be alive on the island with the rest of the survivors who didn't get off. Either that or he died trying to get Sun off the island but that too wouldn't make no sense due to the fact that it still wouldn't solve how SUn got off if he died.

Therefore my beleif is that Jin is alive, he isn't one of the oceanic six. Sun and Hurley are at the grave stone pretending that he's dead. Now there is another thing did they actually say he was dead?

I can't remember hearing either of them say that. Other than SUn saying I wish you were here now. Wish may refer to him still being on the island itself. So I don't think he died at all, my bet is that the final member of the oceanic six is none other than Rose. She has cancer, if not for the island she would be dead. She didn't go with Locke setting up a possible factor that she leaves the island. So she leaves, dies and is the one in the coffin which no one attends the funeral. That what I think anyway.

knowles2
March 17th, 2008, 04:33 PM
That is actually a question I have. Is the future we are shown set in stone?

No, in fact I am certain the future will change. Because one we keep seeing in the future is they got off that island in very strange circumstances and were bribe, forces to keep their mouths shut.

In Desmond visions I square we sure Clare and gang getting on a very official looking rescue helicopters, and not the one the freighter crew has.

I think Desmond done something which change the future, and it that future that we are seeing at the moment. Of course the future cannot be change something(time traveling jack) will have to self correct the future and Desmond vision will happen as it been seen, think of all the future events as just red herrings, it will not be like that when the series ends, virtually guaranteed.


No down to the episode. Brilliant, the twist at the end court me off guard. And was nice. Sun moment at the grave was very heart warming, and if she would faking it then she did a bloody good job at.

I believe Jin is dead and was most likely killed by ben and syid. The simply reason he and sun would do all they could to rescue the remaining survivors on the island, possible using her dad company resources or hurley money if he still got it.

And given his job before arriving to the island was beating the **** out of people, I am sure he would not have no trouble gaining Intel to get back to the island and rescue his friends.

miss_kaylee
March 17th, 2008, 04:42 PM
You can't escape the date of death on the coffin: September 22, 2004. (What is the 1980 date on the left?!) That means he is NOT one of the Oceanic Six, and is in fact part of the island cover-up (everybody but 8 died in the crash).

Jin could in truth be alive or dead. He could have remained behind on the island (perhaps by choice, in order to get Sun off under still unknown circumstances). In that case, Sun is grieving the fact that they are apart and she may never see him again. Or he could have been killed at some point before Sun left, so that her grieving for him is about his death.

Remember, Boone probably has a grave marker saying "09-22-2004" as well. And he didn't die on that day.
I think Jin is alive too. Why show the date on the coffin if he dies for real? Wasn't there a guy in both Jack's and Hurley's flash forward trying to get info on the rest of the survivors on the island?

YodaMate
March 18th, 2008, 12:18 AM
Be very careful watching ads and even occasionally listening to producer's comments, for they can be misleading, particularly if they are preserving a twist at the end of an episode.

The tombstone is not necessarily the death of Jin. In fact, the date on the tombstone proves that Jin is NOT an Oceanic 6, his official 'death' is the same day of the plane crash.

Sun would've been just as devastated at Jin being left behind on the island, permanently seperated from him. After all, she did call out for him during the throes of her pregnancy, which makes more sense if he is alive out there. The Oceanic 6 are sticking like glue to the story that the other 68 survivors died, even amongst themselves, Kate noted that Jack almost sounded like he believed it.

If Jin is alive, it's an interesting parallel between the Sun/Hurley scene and Naomi's briefing by Abaddon (her boss) ; "what if i encounter the survivors?" "there were no survivors of Oceanic Flight 815" "yes but what if..."

Also, Aaron can NOT be an Oceanic 6 ; he doesn't fit into Jack's story of "8 of us survived the crash but 2 died" because he wasn't born yet on the day of the crash. Plus, officially the world doesn't know Aaron's true identity because it is widely believed that he is Kate's son.

It is highly unlikely that Ben has assumed a passenger's identity and thus is part of the Oceanic 6 because of the sheer amount of media attention on them. Then again, Ben is an excellent liar and he has the resources to pull it off (although i doubt he would give his enemies a way to reach him like that).

In all, it seems more likely that the last member of the Oceanic 6 has yet to be revealed.

More intriguing were the developments on the boat. I picked from the end of Season 3 that Michael would be on the freighter, but there was no way i ever expected him to be undercover. His flashbacks are going to be Awesome.

How odd that the girl threw herself overboard, wrapped in chains no less. I wonder if there's some significance to that.

Also very cool was that Grant Bowler is the Captain. A third Aussie at last !

SoulReaver
March 18th, 2008, 07:16 AM
many also claimed that boone sharon eko even nikki & paulo etc. were alive, or would be brought back to life or what not, and this never happened

folks just face it : jin's dead. I wish I were wrong, but from what's been shown so far imo there's hardly anything to suggest this. now since nothing's set in stone (those flash-forwards were one possible future) this may change, but technically he is dead, and he was the one in that coffin. it's that simple, really



I'd also hoped that Michael would be the one in the coffin btw

marty2006
March 18th, 2008, 08:47 AM
many also claimed that boone sharon eko even nikki & paulo etc. were alive, or would be brought back to life or what not, and this never happened

folks just face it : jin's dead. I wish I were wrong, but from what's been shown so far imo there's hardly anything to suggest this. now since nothing's set in stone (those flash-forwards were one possible future) this may change, but technically he is dead, and he was the one in that coffin. it's that simple, really



I'd also hoped that Michael would be the one in the coffin btw

Its not that simple at all, all it showed was a tombstone saying jin died when the plane crashed for all we know he couldnt get off the island and thats why sun is so upset, the tombstone would have been necessary to go along with the 'only 8 survived' story, i mean if hes stuck on the island and sun is back in korea he may aswel be dead as she cant see him or contact him and shes having a baby on her own.

JayShadow
March 18th, 2008, 09:54 AM
No, in fact I am certain the future will change. Because one we keep seeing in the future is they got off that island in very strange circumstances and were bribe, forces to keep their mouths shut.


That is the future. It will not change. They've stated this multiple times. More importantly the future you're seeing isn't the end of the series by a long shot.

Here's a very basic outline of the final 3 seasons that Damon Lindelof gave in a NY Post interview:

"Season 4 is about who gets off the island and the fact that they need to get back. Season 5 is about why they need to get back, and season 6 is about what happens when they get back."

knowles2
March 18th, 2008, 11:13 AM
yeaaaaaaah, those people have soooooo been known to tell the truth., no they have been so honest in the past , they been on the record admitting they lied about stuff, so their nothing that makes me want to believe them now.

Why have they bought in time travel and such if they not gonna used it in a meaningful way.

I still think their will be more plot twists and that the producer.

And if they did reveal that the future we seeing now is all faked and everything will change, it would take away the drama of seeing Sun cry. Whiles telling everyone it set in stone it keeps the drama their, even it they have to lie to maintain the surprise. you decided what they would do, because I was them I know what I would, I would be lieing to my teeth maintain that until the very end.

"Season 4 is about who gets off the island and the fact that they need to get back. Season 5 is about why they need to get back, and season 6 is about what happens when they get back."

Their nothing in the above which says the future is set in stone. What if they need to get back to the island the change the past to make the future better for them all.

what ever happen their nothing in the above statement which would rule out that these flashforwards all meaning nothing through change in time line.

SoulReaver
March 18th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Its not that simple at all, all it showed was a tombstone saying jin died when the plane crashed for all we know he couldnt get off the island and thats why sun is so upset, the tombstone would have been necessary to go along with the 'only 8 survived' story, i mean if hes stuck on the island and sun is back in korea he may aswel be dead as she cant see him or contact him and shes having a baby on her own.yeah well by the look on her face, hers certainly was no less than the expression of a grieving widow, unless she's a very good actor (the character I mean, not the actor :-)

Zonks
March 18th, 2008, 01:25 PM
i just watched this episode and i was like does jin die? i'm quite confused:S
i though the name of the baby girl was cute:)

marty2006
March 18th, 2008, 02:40 PM
yeah well by the look on her face, hers certainly was no less than the expression of a grieving widow, unless she's a very good actor (the character I mean, not the actor :-)

she could be crying due to the fact that she quite possibly will never see the man she loves again if hes stuck on the island, hes as good as dead (if he isnt already that is)

Darren
March 18th, 2008, 03:31 PM
folks just face it : jin's dead. I wish I were wrong, but from what's been shown so far imo there's hardly anything to suggest this.
Why does he have an official D.O.D. of 9-22-2004? He's "officially" dead, which means there isn't much more evidence that he's really dead than that the rest of the non-Oceanic 6 survivors are really dead back on the island. The only evidence is Sun crying, which I think is evenly balanced out by Sun calling out for him in the hospital.


now since nothing's set in stone (those flash-forwards were one possible future) this may change, but technically he is dead, and he was the one in that coffin. it's that simple, really
The flash-forwards are part of the story of LOST, just as much as the flash-backs are. It's not one possible future -- that's just not how this story is being told. If it were one possible future and the point of Seasons 4, 5, and 6 was to avert it, it would be pointless to tell those future stories.

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that Jin was in the coffin. The evidence is actually against it, since the guy is well-liked by everyone and already had a headstone in the ground by the time Ji Yeon was born -- probably long before Jack breaks down, grows a beard, and wants to go baack.

Skydiver
March 18th, 2008, 05:20 PM
if the coffin folks are referring to is the one jack visits...it can't be jin. Sun is home, even hiding from her dad, i can't see Jin's death being unremembered by everyone, and i also can't see him going to the US and letting sun - who's preggers with his child - go home to daddy

the coffin jack visited had no mourners. someone died and no one cared/liked hi/her enough to mourn them.

ben? Juliette? michael? (especially if walt is still on the island) Sawyer? whomever it is is someone that no one mourned or was allowed to mourn

SoulReaver
March 18th, 2008, 05:47 PM
The flash-forwards are part of the story of LOST, just as much as the flash-backs are. It's not one possible future -- that's just not how this story is being told. If it were one possible future and the point of Seasons 4, 5, and 6 was to avert it, it would be pointless to tell those future stories.but if that really is the one & only future then might as well consider it the present (and the story on the island, flashbacks (and the parts before the island, flashbackbacks or flashflashbacks))
kinda takes away most of the intrigue if we know exactly how it's all gonna end beforehand (though we'd know it ain't a happy end, so at least that would change from the usual "happy endings" flavour)

there have already been time travel phenomena in the series, with the present timeline being altered (s4 the constant) so I reckon there could perhaps be another one where Desmond, or someone else, "travels" into the future (as known by the viewers so far), his knowing future events would inevitably alter his present actions, and thus the timeline. kinda like Back To The Future but without the De Lorean

Darren
March 19th, 2008, 10:47 AM
It's certainly possible, but that traditional sci-fi plot device doesn't seem to be the way that the writers are telling the story of LOST. What makes it such a unique series is that it is not entirely linear. For three years we've been seeing the middle of the story (Island) filled out by the beginning of the story (Pre-Island life). The flash-forward reveal at the end of Season Three was a huge shift in this because the writers revealed that they were doing to also tell the end of the story (Post-Island life) at the same time as the beginning and the middle.

It's totally unique, and that's part of what makes it so great.

JMS did it a tiny, tiny bit in B5. The point of Sheridan's flash-forwards in "War Without End" were NOT to show a dark future that he had to try and avert; for Joe the interesting thing was to let the audience know something about the end point, then tell the story of how things got to be that way and finally to reveal the full context of just what was going on in the Centauri Palace.

SoulReaver
March 19th, 2008, 11:05 AM
well like I said I certainly hope it ain't entirely linear - especially knowing s4 will be the last :/


I'm really gonna have to watch B5 one of these days. the only ep I ever watched (or was it a movie ? a pilot perhaps) was in german and was about a war between humans & aliens called minbaris with the latter being more advanced (they had beam weapons whereas humans only had pulse weapons) and the war had started because of a misunderstanding or something (the human ship attacked first 'cause they felt threatened). IIRC there was also a doctor who refused to put his knowledge of minbari biology into making a genetic bioweapon at the military's behest (to turn the tide of the war)

/OT

marty2006
March 19th, 2008, 03:15 PM
well like I said I certainly hope it ain't entirely linear - especially knowing s4 will be the last :/


:S season six will be the last

SoulReaver
March 20th, 2008, 09:21 AM
:S season six will be the last6 seasons ?

source ? :tealcanime49:

marty2006
March 20th, 2008, 10:03 AM
6 seasons ?

source ? :tealcanime49:

damon lindeloff and carlton cuse also abc themselves, it was supposed to be 5 season but abc wanted it another season so season 5 and 6 will only have 16 episodes instead of 24

SoulReaver
March 20th, 2008, 10:27 AM
that's good news...

though the flashback and even the flashforward thing will have gotten old by then...
what will they come up with next, "flashasides" ? http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif

marty2006
March 20th, 2008, 03:32 PM
Lol whos knows but i know ill never get bored with it :)

SgaIsBad
August 30th, 2008, 10:36 AM
flash forwards rock!