PDA

View Full Version : Middle Ages/Renaissance-age people across the Pegasus Galaxy



FallenAngelII
January 29th, 2008, 03:09 AM
How come there are so man people stuck in the Middle Ages, Renaissance or inbetween in the Pegasus galaxy? They've had 10,000 years since the Ancients left the Pegasus galaxy to progress. Who knows how long they were around before then (the Ancients came there "millions of years ago", after all).

Yes, the Wraith this and the Wraith that. But why are they stuck in the Middle Ages/Renaissance all the time? Why not some other Earth-ish epoch? Or a completely new one? Especially since so many of these peoples have Ancient tech at their disposal.

The Tower and now this. Two groups of people who've had Ancient technology (and the gene to operate it) for over 10,000 years and we're supposed to believe their technological development stayed stagnant?

ykickamoocow
January 29th, 2008, 04:20 AM
I would imagine its because of the Wraith. In the episodes "The Brotherhood and Poisoning the Well" it is stated that their society progresses then the Wraith come and as a result they tend to stall in their technological development.

The_Carpenter
January 29th, 2008, 07:58 AM
I would imagine its because of the Wraith. In the episodes "The Brotherhood and Poisoning the Well" it is stated that their society progresses then the Wraith come and as a result they tend to stall in their technological development.

Bingo we have a winner.

FallenAngelII
January 29th, 2008, 09:06 AM
I would imagine its because of the Wraith. In the episodes "The Brotherhood and Poisoning the Well" it is stated that their society progresses then the Wraith come and as a result they tend to stall in their technological development.
Umm... then how come in "The Tower" they had ancient technology to, you know, drone any approaching ships into Kingdom Come? Surely with technology like that, the Wraith just left them alone because it'd be too much trouble to fight them.

And they stuck with the Renaissance-level because?

Also, the people in "Poisoning the Well" were kinda evolved very much beyond the level of the peoples of "Harmony" and "The Tower" (once you take their Ancient tech away). It's not like there's a mandate that they can never go beyond Renaissance-level.

Major_Griff
January 29th, 2008, 09:19 AM
It is established that the Wraith will only let societies get to a certain level before they come and bring down the hammer. That is why the Genii pose as simple farmers and keep all their advanced stuff in their underground tunnels. That is also why the planet that the Terrainians relocated to had underground tunnels. As for The Tower, I think the Wraith decided to leave them alone since they have the means to defend themselves but are still simple folk that won't go crusading against the Wraith.

garhkal
January 29th, 2008, 09:59 AM
It is established that the Wraith will only let societies get to a certain level before they come and bring down the hammer. That is why the Genii pose as simple farmers and keep all their advanced stuff in their underground tunnels. That is also why the planet that the Terrainians relocated to had underground tunnels. As for The Tower, I think the Wraith decided to leave them alone since they have the means to defend themselves but are still simple folk that won't go crusading against the Wraith.

From Sateda we know that the wraith obliterate anyone who can pose a threat to them, so i wonder why they never felt that way with the Tower people?

Bachall
January 29th, 2008, 10:21 AM
I've had a long quibbble that these societies are all European based. The Ancients spoke some kind of dog Latin - you'd think we'd see some, at least Mediterranean type cultures, Near East (like Asia Minor, not the overdone Nile and North Africa), etc.

Ebeneezer_Goode
January 29th, 2008, 10:23 AM
I've had a long quibbble that these societies are all European based. The Ancients spoke some kind of dog Latin - you'd think we'd see some, at least Mediterranean type cultures, Near East (like Asia Minor, not the overdone Nile and North Africa), etc.

The Ancients have been gone for 10,000 years.

Bachall
January 29th, 2008, 11:04 AM
I think the implication of the Latin is that some of them influenced the cultures which eventually produced, among other things, classical Latin. The Indo-European had as its center, for the time of the rise of modern civilization, the Mediterranean culture. And yet they are largely ignored. Ditto the Indus Valley and the Tigris-Euphrates.

I know it's because they haven't really thought that hard about it, or making it fit with real history. Unlike the Egyptian used in the movie and early series, I suppose Latin roots are highly accessible to both writers and audience.

It's just annoying to see unused opportunity to bypass a cliche in favor of some interesting but easily researched culture (imagining Etruscan or Cretan type costumes and architecture here - fun!).

Ah well. It's not a huge thing for me. I only say something about it maybe once per episode, to my long-suffering SO. "Can't you just WATCH it? It's not Tolstoy!"

Major_Griff
January 29th, 2008, 11:09 AM
From Sateda we know that the wraith obliterate anyone who can pose a threat to them, so i wonder why they never felt that way with the Tower people?

In Reunion, we found out that the Setedans were running ops against the Wriath. So they were actively being a thorn in the Wraith's collectives sides, so that is why they wiped out the Setedans as opposed to the tower people. The tower folk were content to stay on their world with their strictly defensive weapons and not bother the Wraith.

Bachall
January 29th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Incidently, to the OP:

Feudal cultures are naturally stable, especially in the face of extreme external threats like the Wraith. By definition it has measures built into the system to ensure continuance.

Remember Teyla in "Rising" expressed a fear of going near the Ancient city. If this type of fear was galaxy wide, there would be a strong pressure against any kind of change. This could make a feudal system last indefinitely without a positive outside pressure or drastic internal change (like plague or natural disaster).

My complaint is that there are many different known expressions of the feudal culture other than the overdone European model. There is the familiar and beautiful Japanese. There are less known cultural models available to anyone: Russian, Islamic/African, Indus valley, MesoAmerican.

Mitchell82
January 29th, 2008, 12:30 PM
Umm... then how come in "The Tower" they had ancient technology to, you know, drone any approaching ships into Kingdom Come? Surely with technology like that, the Wraith just left them alone because it'd be too much trouble to fight them.
They wern't a threat. If the Wraith came with a fleet of hives they would have destroyed them. Not to mention their power was dwindling.


And they stuck with the Renaissance-level because?

Also, the people in "Poisoning the Well" were kinda evolved very much beyond the level of the peoples of "Harmony" and "The Tower" (once you take their Ancient tech away). It's not like there's a mandate that they can never go beyond Renaissance-level.
Because do to the constant culling of them by the Wraith they can't evolve too much.

Heaven
January 29th, 2008, 01:55 PM
The Goauld have been gone 5000 years, yet we developed modern science and technology only in the last few centuries... without the wraith.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 29th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Umm... then how come in "The Tower" they had ancient technology to, you know, drone any approaching ships into Kingdom Come? Surely with technology like that, the Wraith just left them alone because it'd be too much trouble to fight them.

The rulers in 'The Tower' used the tech to keep their own people from becomig a threat to themselves.

2ndgenerationalteran
January 29th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Umm... then how come in "The Tower" they had ancient technology to, you know, drone any approaching ships into Kingdom Come? Surely with technology like that, the Wraith just left them alone because it'd be too much trouble to fight them.
Or they destroyed the hive that claimed that planet territory and the rest of the wraith dont know about it...


And they stuck with the Renaissance-level because?
the only people who had rights were the few living in the tower, they cant be expected to come up with the knowledge we gained in several hundred years with millions of people. Plus technologically they were content, they had everything but food as a given constant, their quality of life probably could not be improved so there is no motivation to innovate.


Also, the people in "Poisoning the Well" were kinda evolved very much beyond the level of the peoples of "Harmony" and "The Tower" (once you take their Ancient tech away). It's not like there's a mandate that they can never go beyond Renaissance-level.
And they were a threat to the wraith and presumably wiped out, they said they have been destroyed and rebuilt several times and the fact that they had books as their knowledge storages hints that they didnt make it far enough to invent the computer to store data electronically. Ronon's people didnt seem to make it to that point either.

I'm disapointed that there are no greek or roman cultures in pegasus so far.

garhkal
January 30th, 2008, 08:11 AM
I've had a long quibbble that these societies are all European based. The Ancients spoke some kind of dog Latin - you'd think we'd see some, at least Mediterranean type cultures, Near East (like Asia Minor, not the overdone Nile and North Africa), etc.

Well, since most of the cultures seem to be trade related, it does give a reason why each looks similar to one another..

geewillie86
January 31st, 2008, 10:34 AM
In The Tower there was little need or drive for the people to advance scientifically. They were protected by the tower. On top of that, the peasants were too busy with their subsistence farming and tribute providing to advance. The royalty had little use for technological advancement because they relied on the ancient tech.

In Harmony I bet that the wraith weren't prevented from culling the people by mini-drones. They might be able to take out a bunch of people, but I doubt they could take out a hive ship or a cruiser. Maybe they could take out a dart if the queen / king were lucky. After all, they were grateful for the warning from Atlantis. I doubt that it would have been a big deal for them if they could defend themselves.

We can take advantage of the ancient tech because we were at a decent level of technological development to understand some of it.

Either way, tptb did a good job to address this concern when they introduced the travelers. They realized that we need more advanced humans in the PG. Also, lets not forget the Genii, who have an interesting way of preserving their advanced society. The Olesians were another example of advancement.

I doubt that having ancient tech at one's disposal is motivation for advancement when a society is in its medieval/renaissance stage for the same reasons that the people protected by the tower were stagnant. There's also a lot of fear (advanced or not) that technological advancement would attract the attention of the wraith. Remember that Teyla's people were afraid to go to their old city for fear that the wraith would bear down on them.

From a plot development point of view, it wouldn't make sense to have too many societies at a serious level of development. It would be easier to defeat the wraith if the PG did.

wise one
January 31st, 2008, 12:18 PM
well there are and were some space faring races or had the development to fly

like the travelers, their possible the most advance race in the PG excluding the wraith and such

and there was that race that had to download it conscience into weir and john, and the race from the ark some like the people from condemned

maybe without wraith interfernece they could get on track and progress yet it will take hundreds of years

nx01a
January 31st, 2008, 03:46 PM
Honest answer: wood & skins and fake boulders are cheaper than LCDs and pseudo-metallic walls.:P

Yeah, the Wraith cull and keep people in check. Society fails a few times until they settle on one form that lets them survive cullings and keep a semi-cohesive social structure. Those structures appear to be either hunter/gatherer in tents and caves, or feudal in castles etc.

Mikefm3
February 1st, 2008, 06:14 AM
Well basically in this case and most cases in the Pegasus galaxy the people were being harvested by the wraith so their advancement was halted every time there was a culling, the exception would be the Genii which have industrialized weapons and technology.