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any_gopher
January 25th, 2008, 08:31 PM
I enjoyed this ep! However, something is bothering me...

How could they test the Ancient drone weapons in the Pegasus Galaxy, when they were present before the Ancients even left the Milky Way? We had them on Earth.

This could be a plothole, or...

is there a possibility that for a time the Ancients inhabited both the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxies?

Now don't get me wrong, I don't go looking for these things lol. But this caught my attention immediately.

DeRoest
January 25th, 2008, 08:37 PM
I enjoyed this ep! However, something is bothering me...

How could they test the Ancient drone weapons in the Pegasus Galaxy, when they were present before the Ancients even left the Milky Way? We had them on Earth.

This could be a plothole, or...

is there a possibility that for a time the Ancients inhabited both the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxies?

Now don't get me wrong, I don't go looking for these things lol. But this caught my attention immediately.
they might have. it might also be just a test facility for these minature sized drones

Major_Griff
January 25th, 2008, 08:38 PM
While for a short time, the Ancients inhabited both galaxies, I think this may be a goof on the writer's part. Its possible that they were attempting to make a portable weapon capable of firing the mini-drones, but I think it was pretty clear what they said in the ep.

Argosy
January 25th, 2008, 08:39 PM
No.

jelgate
January 25th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Okay, its time to educate people on the defination of a plot hole.. A plot hole is defined as illogicial step in the plot of the story. The mini drones thing coming after the drones in Antarticia doesn't mean it is a plothole. It also could be argued that the Antarticia drones were put in place when the Ancients returned from the Pegasus.

any_gopher
January 25th, 2008, 09:01 PM
Okay, its time to educate people on the defination of a plot hole.. A plot hole is defined as illogicial step in the plot of the story. The mini drones thing coming after the drones in Antarticia doesn't mean it is a plothole. It also could be argued that the Antarticia drones were put in place when the Ancients returned from the Pegasus.

Yeah, I wasn't saying it was a plothole. I was saying, COULD it be, or is there an explanation. But, you know, thanks for the lesson and all. ;)

Metonic
January 25th, 2008, 09:31 PM
not a plot hole, minidrones are being tested not drones... but mini drones wouldnt be very useful unless u have a way of being shielded as you fire them. also ud have to take that base every where u go lol.

Drones were not placed in Antarctica on the return trip, if Antarctica was visited upon return, i believe the ancients would of thawed out whats her face, assuming their technology was advanced enough to scan over the surface and see what remains. I'm sure a scan would of shown a frozen body, much like an xray can find somethign that doesnt belong in your body. Lets just say, if your returning to your old outpost and you scan around it and see a frozen body, your gonna wonder wtf happened as no one could get there.

any_gopher
January 25th, 2008, 10:05 PM
not a plot hole, minidrones are being tested not drones... but mini drones wouldnt be very useful unless u have a way of being shielded as you fire them. also ud have to take that base every where u go lol.

See, this is where I'm confused... maybe I need to check a transcript. The way I understood it, the minidrones were built as a prototype test for the larger, regular drones. But if I misheard this, then that kind of explains everything and renders this thread pointless lol.

Tain
January 25th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Didn't Rodney refer to it as the place the Ancients "first developed drone technology"? That would imply drones period, not just the mini-drones.

Dobberman
January 25th, 2008, 10:17 PM
See, this is where I'm confused... maybe I need to check a transcript. The way I understood it, the minidrones were built as a prototype test for the larger, regular drones. But if I misheard this, then that kind of explains everything and renders this thread pointless lol.

That's what I remember too. It may not be a plothole but it certainly seems to be a continuity error.

mizzoueng
January 25th, 2008, 10:19 PM
Rodney did say they had been looking for that device for 2 years. Is there some reference to it in season 2?

The only explanation I could think of was that the original designers of the drones contracted the plauge in the MW and all their knowledge and technology was destroyed due to quaratine protocol.

If this is true, then the Pegasus Ancients would had to have started over on the drone process. Maybe this is why drones were be developed and tested in Pegasus.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:22 PM
That's what I remember too. It may not be a plothole but it certainly seems to be a continuity error.

Not necesairly error. We know Atlantis was on Earth first as was the outpost. However we don't know if drones were present then or if they were made from pegasus technology and they intergrated it into the outpsot.. scratch that. When they went back the outpost would be covered in ice already. My guess is the part about them first developing drones could be Rodney just misreading something. It could have been a prototype for a more portable drone system.

Malakriss
January 25th, 2008, 11:10 PM
The process of Miniaturization implies that the first versions are large and cumbersome. Since the mini-drones are smaller, more agile, and operated on the personal level (requires a necklace instead of a whole jumper), they must be a miniaturization of already existing technology.

The regular size drones were created back in Milky Way and the technology was further researched here in Pegasus. Due to the war with the Wraith and lack of opportunities to use it, they were never mass produced.

RepliVeggie
January 25th, 2008, 11:43 PM
They were obviously created ALONG time before the Ancients fell as they had time to outfit all there technology in the Pegasus Galaxy with them. Also who's to say that Atlantis wasn't in contact with Ayiana back on earth before Antartica was covered in ice. They could have went back and fitted the outposts in MW with them. Also MINI DRONES? Why?

Platschu
January 26th, 2008, 02:32 AM
I hoped they will mention that these mini-droned defeated Anubis over Antarctica. :S

Xeon_1
January 26th, 2008, 05:10 AM
They looked a lot more then the drones from season 7 in antartica those where also smaller then the Atlantis drones
So it could be that this is the testing ground for the newer drones and they had a bunch of "older smaller" drones for comparison to damage output and so on

Dutch_Razor
January 26th, 2008, 06:23 AM
I enjoyed this ep! However, something is bothering me...

How could they test the Ancient drone weapons in the Pegasus Galaxy, when they were present before the Ancients even left the Milky Way? We had them on Earth.

This could be a plothole, or...

is there a possibility that for a time the Ancients inhabited both the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxies?

Now don't get me wrong, I don't go looking for these things lol. But this caught my attention immediately.

Even if it WAS the drones being tested it could always be they were upgrading them, better tracking, maneuvring, more speed etc.

IcyNeko
January 26th, 2008, 11:05 AM
The process of Miniaturization implies that the first versions are large and cumbersome. Since the mini-drones are smaller, more agile, and operated on the personal level (requires a necklace instead of a whole jumper), they must be a miniaturization of already existing technology.

The regular size drones were created back in Milky Way and the technology was further researched here in Pegasus. Due to the war with the Wraith and lack of opportunities to use it, they were never mass produced.

Quoted for truth.

You don't start technology small and enlarge it. It's always the other way around. Start with something on a big scale, and then as tech advances, you shrink it down.

Wraith_Boy
January 26th, 2008, 11:05 AM
The outpost in Antartica had them.

Atlantis had them.

Therefore if you go by what was said in this ep, then the Drones were built while in Pegasus.

Lanteans were defeated by the Wraith. They went back to Earth. Built & installed Drones in the outpost just incase they ever needed to defend themselves in future.

Pogo01
January 26th, 2008, 11:17 AM
The outpost in Antartica had them.

Atlantis had them.

Therefore if you go by what was said in this ep, then the Drones were built while in Pegasus.

Lanteans were defeated by the Wraith. They went back to Earth. Built & installed Drones in the outpost just incase they ever needed to defend themselves in future.


Estimate how many drones were fired by the Antarctic outpost. How many crates did you see the Lanteans carry through the Stargate in "Before I Sleep"? Think about it. The outpost we all know was created before Atlantis left for the Pegasus Galaxy. And obviously any outpost has to be defended somehow, hence the drones.

Besides i'm sure the Lanteans had better things to worry about like their survival then stocking up on drones.. maybe like bringing some real technology but it was stated that the Lanteans barely brought any tech back which is why they had no hope of rebuilding their civilization and spread throughout the galaxy. Otherwise they could've all settled in the numerous outposts posted throughout the Milky Way galaxy.. Theres more than enough technology to rebuild. Not to mention the Ancient Database which practically stored all their information.

Cap116
January 26th, 2008, 12:07 PM
The Ancients left the MW several million years ago for the PG. They left PG to go back to the MW 10,000 years ago. There is PLENTY of time for the Ancients to create the drones and take them back to the MW through the gate.

Maybe it is the place where the improved upon the original drones. Wouldn't be safe to assume that Atlantis was built with the deployment of drones at the three piers. Hopefully, they will explain it later on, if not this season then next season.

NATIK
January 26th, 2008, 12:46 PM
I think its a goof, one of the following things propaply happened:

A) The writer forgot the outpost on Earth.
B) The script contained an error (should have been base of mini drone tech, not all drone tech)
C) Rodney misspoke, either the actor or in character, more likely the actor, and no one picked up on it.

The drones CANNOT have been invented in Pegasus, as the are on the Earth outpost, the Earth outpost predates the Pegasus Ancient and they didnt have the ressources to retrofit it when they went back.

I hope there will be references to that part of this episode in one of the following, perhaps by finding some sort of drone factory or something else that will make us able to construct either normal or mini drones.

Integrabyte
January 26th, 2008, 12:48 PM
They had no CGI to hide the plot holes this time :P. ***heee heee heee, SGA is a canyon!!!!!***

jds1982
January 26th, 2008, 12:58 PM
There's nothing preventing the drones from having been researched and created in Pegasus, and Atlantis from having them before it left for Pegasus. Obviously the Ancients must have had some knowledge of Pegasus before they went, possibly outposts or research centers. Nothing prevents them from having inhabited two galaxies or more at once.

Integrabyte
January 26th, 2008, 01:02 PM
There's nothing preventing the drones from having been researched and created in Pegasus, and Atlantis from having them before it left for Pegasus. Obviously the Ancients must have had some knowledge of Pegasus before they went, possibly outposts or research centers. Nothing prevents them from having inhabited two galaxies or more at once.


You base that on what? Its pure speculation. Cap116 started this thread with the info given by TPTB. According to TPTB the trip was ORI->MW->PG.

jds1982
January 26th, 2008, 01:05 PM
You base that on what? The trip was ORI->MW->PG.

I base it on the fact that you generally don't just move to a place without scouting it first. You may pass through without prior knowledge, but settling down without knowing the lay of the land is just stupid. The Ancients in "Rising" seemed to have a good idea of where they were going.

Mitchell82
January 26th, 2008, 01:42 PM
The outpost in Antartica had them.

Atlantis had them.

Therefore if you go by what was said in this ep, then the Drones were built while in Pegasus.

Lanteans were defeated by the Wraith. They went back to Earth. Built & installed Drones in the outpost just incase they ever needed to defend themselves in future.

That doesnt work. The outpost would have been lost by then and the gate seperated from the outpost or they would have thawed Aiana.

Avenger
January 26th, 2008, 03:34 PM
See, this is where I'm confused... maybe I need to check a transcript. The way I understood it, the minidrones were built as a prototype test for the larger, regular drones. But if I misheard this, then that kind of explains everything and renders this thread pointless lol.

Technologically, bigger comes first, then things get smaller as the technology improves.

Gun technology started as cannons first, then was scaled down through time so that it could be wielded by an individual.

Computers took up entire basements in buildings when first developed. Now, you can hold one in the palm of your hands,

any_gopher
January 26th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Technologically, bigger comes first, then things get smaller as the technology improves.

Gun technology started as cannons first, then was scaled down through time so that it could be wielded by an individual.

Computers took up entire basements in buildings when first developed. Now, you can hold one in the palm of your hands,

I know the way it should be, I'm just talking about how it came across in the dialogue.

Integrabyte: "You base that on what? Its pure speculation. Cap116 started this thread with the info given by TPTB. According to TPTB the trip was ORI->MW->PG." (quoted like this because for some reason, my browser won't let me quote two like it usually does).

Not that it matters, but I started the thread ;-).

gopher65
January 26th, 2008, 04:02 PM
The drones did look suspiciously like the ones from The Lost City p2. In tLC they were less defined than the normal drones, and smaller, just like these ones were. That might also explain why it took thousands of them to destroy a few motherships when in a later episode 3 full sized jumper drones were able to take out a mothership, and a single drone was able to damage a wrath cruiser enough to make it back off.

I'm thinking that the OoC explanation is that the script was a little bit off its intended meaning (or someone didn't do their research before writing it), while the in-universe explanation is that McKay misspoke, and meant to say "the place where all the more advanced drone technology came from that Atlantis and the jumpers use", but he was too excited and he messed it up:).

jds1982
January 26th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Technologically, bigger comes first, then things get smaller as the technology improves.

Not necessarily, if you look at things like ships and airplanes, they were smaller before the technology to make them big was developed. Also there are times when people will start with smaller proof of concept models before building a full size thing. I'm not saying something like this happened with drones, just that technology advances on both ends of the scale, smaller isn't necessarily more advanced. It could be the mini-drones needed less energy to work than larger drones and were therefore easier to build and maintain during the testing phases.

FennerMachine
January 26th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Not all tech starts large & then becomes smaller. Once a civilization reaches a certain tech level they can make small prototypes for testing until they are confident to make larger versions to save on the cost of materials.

For example, Japan is launching a small paper craft treated with special heat resistant substances from the International Space station before making larger craft from the materials being tested.

The Ancients my have done the same sort of thing; start small, perfect them, & then make them to the required sizes later, or they may have just been testing new versions of the drones.
Either way, what was said in the episode did seem a little odd.

But hay, its just TV!:)

Wraith_Boy
January 26th, 2008, 05:03 PM
That doesnt work. The outpost would have been lost by then and the gate seperated from the outpost or they would have thawed Aiana.

Huh!!!!

The returning Lanteans from Atlantis, came back to Earth through the Antartic outpost which still had the Stargate in it at the time!

As for Ayianna. We know Atlantis left the MW somewhere between 5 & 10 million years ago. She was still living then. Therefore how would the Lanteans at the time have had any clue as to her still being around. Stasis pods barely keep a person alive for 10,000 years, never mind someone from millions of years before. Ayianna was out in the snow for whatever reason. She obviously had an accident & ended up being frozen solid. No life signs were coming from her. So nobody would have had a clue she was there!

SG13-NightOps
January 26th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Not sure if anyone has said this already, but ...

They left Earth for Lantea because of the plague.
They left Lantea for Earth again because of the Wraith.

Not entirely a one sided affair. The chair and drones could have been installed after they returned. After all, why would they need a "second" chair on earth Before hand when they had Atlantis there?

Mitchell82
January 26th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Huh!!!!

The returning Lanteans from Atlantis, came back to Earth through the Antartic outpost which still had the Stargate in it at the time!

As for Ayianna. We know Atlantis left the MW somewhere between 5 & 10 million years ago. She was still living then. Therefore how would the Lanteans at the time have had any clue as to her still being around. Stasis pods barely keep a person alive for 10,000 years, never mind someone from millions of years before. Ayianna was out in the snow for whatever reason. She obviously had an accident & ended up being frozen solid. No life signs were coming from her. So nobody would have had a clue she was there!

Uh no. The only thing that makes sense as to how she was so well preserved is that she was in the stasis pod and when the ice shelf moved she got seperated. As to the gate still being at the Outpost we really have no idea if it was still there. Still I don't think that they put the drones there after they returned. They had none of their technology they lived as the humans that were there at that point in time.

RepliVeggie
January 26th, 2008, 08:23 PM
I will bring up the point again. There is nothing saying that Atlantis wasn't still in contact with the MW Galaxy. They could have easily created the drones a million years ago and sent the blueprints back and had there outposts in the MW galaxy with them. The point of the outpost is likely to defend against the Ori should they ever find out where the Alterans went. The Alteran's just never planned on dieing out like they did.


Also I think Aiyana was an ascended ancient who retook human form. There for she was able to keep herself alive.

General Burro
January 26th, 2008, 09:49 PM
yeah i was a test bed for mini drones. nothing else. plus these drones were made to pwn anyone not an alteran (alteran gene). entirely new type as the old ones needs the chair dude to control them. these are auto

kymeric
January 26th, 2008, 10:02 PM
and they didnt have the ressources to retrofit it when they went back.

Huge assumption, the outpost was in mint condition when sg1 found it all they needed was new batteries which Lanteans would have had easily when they came back.


Just cause ppl cant imagine an answer dosent make it OMGPLOTHOLE

RepliVeggie
January 27th, 2008, 01:56 AM
just cause ppl cant imagine an answer dosent make it OMGPLOTHOLE


People seem to assume that Atlantis had no contact with the MW galaxy at all. Why? No clue. Aiyana was likely left behind to man the outpost and stuff.

2ndgenerationalteran
January 27th, 2008, 02:12 AM
The drones seem to have definitely been made in the Pegasus galaxy, that gives no indication of time. When Atlantis went to Pegasus it doesn't mean that it was the first time they ever stepped foot in that galaxy. That outpost could have outdated the Atlantis's inhabitance in the Pegasus galaxy, if they were at war when drones were invented it only makes sense to make their research facilities as remote as possible (especially if they could just dial in to get there).

Or, After Atlantis left Earth it doesn't mean that they didn't contact Earth again until they went back 10,000 years ago. The Antarctic Outpost could have been active and upgraded when the Ancients were in Pegasus. Even when they left if the ancients upgraded the chair to use drones they could have brought the entire stash of drones from Atlantis to stock the outpost in case of attack, explaining why Atlantis has only a couple dozen drones left.

When ever someone mentioned Lantian infantry i can probably assume we all thought they would carry rifles and grenades like more standard troops. If the ancients used these mini drones as weapons for infantry that would give a whole new perspective on Lantian infantry and ground based war time tactics. Imagine each soldier with a mini neural mini drone controller and a swarm of mini drones, instead of exploding on spot they penetrate and if needed they could carry an explosive charge. That would be revolutionary in war. I really hope that the writers would take this idea and run with it, because i think that this would be really original.

RepliVeggie
January 27th, 2008, 02:51 AM
I doubt the Lantians had foot soldiers. It isn't really something you need when you have space ships. I know they have security guards like but I dunno about infantry. Who knows though.

Prior_of_the_Ori
January 27th, 2008, 05:01 AM
I never thought they had soldiers... they would be safe behind their advanced shields, technology and starships so there was no need for soldiers especially for a race devoted to science. I would imagine that the mini-drones were developed when it became clear that they were being overrun by the Wraith and that no matter how advanced they were, the Wraith kept coming especially on the ground so it might have facilitated the need for smaller anti-personnel weapons. Or perhaps they developed these devices in order to help the Human civilizations against the Wraith as the Lanteans couldnt be everywhere.

Boz4646
January 27th, 2008, 08:16 AM
During this episode, Rodney assumed that this was the testing grounds for the first drones. I cant remember, but was there a direct reference to some data Rodney finds confirming this was the original test grounds? They also said Ancient scientists hid research from each other. That is why Harmony had a secret pendent/key. Could this research outpost be something different than the original drone outpost? Maybe they were making modifications to the drones, maybe personal drones instead of battleship drones like what we have already seen. I wish the writers could have elaborated this topic more.

nemesis24
January 27th, 2008, 09:11 AM
i do agree with what some people have said about drones starting off as smaller ones that then became bigger, this could be for a number of reasons - they wanted to increase the yield of the drones so they were more affective against sheilds or bigger hive ships.

what could have happened though is the drone concept was created in the MW then carried on in the PG, when the smaller drones showed potential they went with it and made it bigger and better. also in rising when the city left the MW there were still ancients in the galaxy but were over run with a plague, perhaps the ancients in the PG kept in contact with people in the MW to see what happened about said plague - if they were in contact with the MW it could show why drones were latter found on earth.

either way things dont really add up and all we can assume is the time aspect of when drones were invented. personally in rising i think the drone that "someone" was working on seemed to be quite big which would discount it being a mini-drone.

methosivanhoe
January 27th, 2008, 09:16 AM
perhaps it actually went the other way...

going on common sense and what we know about Technology in general, maybe the larger drones came first, they were installed in Atlantis, PJ's and the outposts around the galaxy (Like on earth) and then, after they had been using them for a while, The Ancients found a way to actually minaturise the technology creating the mini-drones.

i know for a fact that it's a lot easier to create technology that's large in mass, especially with weaponry, than it is to actually minaturize the technology and still have it have the same effectiveness.

thats how i understand it anyway, larger drones came first, the mini drones were experimental and never finished but were actually the second evolution of the drone weapon.

M

jds1982
January 27th, 2008, 10:00 AM
I doubt the Lantians had foot soldiers. It isn't really something you need when you have space ships. I know they have security guards like but I dunno about infantry. Who knows though.

You always need foot soldiers, unless you plan on simply wiping out planets.

MechaThor
January 27th, 2008, 11:25 AM
I enjoyed this ep! However, something is bothering me...

How could they test the Ancient drone weapons in the Pegasus Galaxy, when they were present before the Ancients even left the Milky Way? We had them on Earth.

This could be a plothole, or...

is there a possibility that for a time the Ancients inhabited both the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxies?

Now don't get me wrong, I don't go looking for these things lol. But this caught my attention immediately.

Even with old technologies like the Drones, You would still need to test and upgrade them. I am sure the Drones have been around with the ancients for years. However they would still needed to have had a testing facility in the PG, especailly when the wraith where around. There they could test, new features in the Drones and new programming to make them better and more effective against the Wraith/Replicators. Like making mini-versions! OR MASSIVE VERSIONS!

I am sure it was a bit of a Writers goof, But in my mind they would still have needed a place to test the next batch of Drones!

I don't remember Mckay saying "this is where the Drones where invented and made" Just TESTED!

SP90
January 27th, 2008, 11:47 AM
Quoted for truth.

You don't start technology small and enlarge it. It's always the other way around. Start with something on a big scale, and then as tech advances, you shrink it down.

If thats the case then why were the NEWER Saturn rockets BIGGER than the OLDER Mercury rockets? ;)

I had another intersting thought during the episode. I was thinking the Ancients may have based the drones phasing technology on that lifeform they found that could zip thru trees. They both have that yellow glowing look and sound very similar when their flying around.

2ndgenerationalteran
January 27th, 2008, 12:09 PM
^except for that they didn't leave puncture holes in the trees, and i dont think the PG ones can do that those were the SG1 light bugs


You always need foot soldiers, unless you plan on simply wiping out planets.

Agreed, especially when giving cover for evacuating planets.

I rewatched it Rodney was pretty confident that that was the original drone creation site. The way he was talking about it saying that was what they were looking for for the last 2 years indicates that it has a drone production plant on it as well. Is this a plot hole, no, not necessarily there are many good and reasonable explanations if you think.

RepliVeggie
January 27th, 2008, 12:51 PM
You really only need foot soldiers if you were invading a planet. Either for taking it over to save people or destroy. I can just see the ancients zooming around in puddle jumpers or other small attack craft to do that.


Also I was thinking. What if Mini-Drones were being designed as a defense/security system for their bases/outposts. They seem to work more like a security system then a offensive weapon.

jds1982
January 27th, 2008, 01:18 PM
You really only need foot soldiers if you were invading a planet. Either for taking it over to save people or destroy. I can just see the ancients zooming around in puddle jumpers or other small attack craft to do that.


Also I was thinking. What if Mini-Drones were being designed as a defense/security system for their bases/outposts. They seem to work more like a security system then a offensive weapon.

There are places a Puddle Jumper can't go, places your enemy could hide. The only way you could get them is to have ground troops go after them, or at least something similar to ground troops, attack bots or something.

wise one
January 27th, 2008, 04:07 PM
they were scientists not soldiers

they mite have what the asurans did which was send out a grup to check on things like in that ep i forgot it called with the replicator team with wier in it..this mortal coil i think


those mini drones were smart they were programmed to attack other people without the ancient gene

but maybe they did have infantry maybe to capture a wraith or two for study they were scientists

but the only problem is that it is limited in range since if it was active on auto then it would of swarmed the castle everyone was living in so you might need to keep a few of those consoles in places around the area to protect from darts or something

2ndgenerationalteran
January 27th, 2008, 08:06 PM
we do know they had a army, well navy sort of. but this would make sense as a security system or suppression fire so a retreat could be made or for a percision attack. It would be intimidating as a offensive weapon as a swarms of hundreds of these would be closing in on you, most people would run from a swarm of bees, this would be worse

Lythisrose
January 27th, 2008, 09:11 PM
These drones probably ended up being some sort of "natural selection" over the generations on this planet, by which I mean that those with the gene would be more likely to survive than those who didn't. They might end up with quite a concentration of "super ATA gene" carriers.

DarkSullivan
January 28th, 2008, 11:23 AM
I enjoyed this ep! However, something is bothering me...

How could they test the Ancient drone weapons in the Pegasus Galaxy, when they were present before the Ancients even left the Milky Way? We had them on Earth.

This could be a plothole, or...

is there a possibility that for a time the Ancients inhabited both the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxies?

Now don't get me wrong, I don't go looking for these things lol. But this caught my attention immediately.Well the mini drones could be fro enemy soldiers and not for ships. (Just thinking)

Xaeden
January 28th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Huh!!!!

The returning Lanteans from Atlantis, came back to Earth through the Antartic outpost which still had the Stargate in it at the time!

As far as we know the Ancient Outpost never had the Stargate in it. The U.S. government found it on the surface (or it was the surface before a thin level of ice covered it up) sort of nearby from where the Outpost was buried and it was never said anywhere that it was originally in the Outpost and the Ancients moved it after coming back to Earth.


People seem to assume that Atlantis had no contact with the MW galaxy at all. Why? No clue. Aiyana was likely left behind to man the outpost and stuff.

Because it doesn't fit. The Ancients leaving Atlantis to return to Earth were described as people who hoped to rebuild back on Earth but after being dismayed by the lack of technology they gave up and either ascended, lived their lives out on Earth, or headed for the Stargate. If they had constant contact with the Milky Way they would know if the technology existed there for what they needed ahead of time. Further more, there are a bunch of other little references. Such as Thor saying that the Ancients left this part of space some time ago (in response to an Sg-1 question about them) suggesting that they were aware of Atlantis leaving. Yet, they did seem to know of any Ancients running around mantaining outposts or whatever. Then there's the issue of the plaque - It would make sense that the Ancients in the Pegasus galaxy would not risk stepping foot in the Milky Way for fear that the plaque was still active somewhere and the last of their population could die out of scouts somehow got infected and brought it back. Which was actually possible - If anyone dug up Aiyana at any point, the plaque could've been active again. There precautions that be can taken to prevent infection, but it doesn't seem worth it just to refit an outpost with drones. It just doesn't make sense as it had no military application whatsoever considering their entire population was in the Pegasus galaxy and you don't need to use ZPM power to travel back and forth just for research.

freyr's mother
January 28th, 2008, 12:47 PM
Okay, its time to educate people on the defination of a plot hole.. A plot hole is defined as illogicial step in the plot of the story. The mini drones thing coming after the drones in Antarticia doesn't mean it is a plothole. It also could be argued that the Antarticia drones were put in place when the Ancients returned from the Pegasus.

But we saw the outpost get left behind in Rising 1. It also said, several million years ago. So even if they did bring them back, where did they put them. The outpost would have been buried under the mile of ice. Besides, the ancients that decided to stay on earth just blended with earth's population. Definate plothole, unless they were experimenting with Anti-personnel drone technology.

RepliVeggie
January 28th, 2008, 12:53 PM
But we saw the outpost get left behind in Rising 1. It also said, several million years ago. So even if they did bring them back, where did they put them. The outpost would have been buried under the mile of ice. Besides, the ancients that decided to stay on earth just blended with earth's population. Definate plothole, unless they were experimenting with Anti-personnel drone technology.


There is nothing wrong with the idea that the Ancients developed Drones in Pegasus. They likely were just in contact with Earth still. Who knows what happened at the outpost to cause Aiyana and the Stargate to be seperate from the outpost.

gopher65
January 28th, 2008, 01:59 PM
There is nothing wrong with the idea that the Ancients developed Drones in Pegasus. They likely were just in contact with Earth still. Who knows what happened at the outpost to cause Aiyana and the Stargate to be seperate from the outpost.

Because of this:


Because it doesn't fit. The Ancients leaving Atlantis to return to Earth were described as people who hoped to rebuild back on Earth but after being dismayed by the lack of technology they gave up and either ascended, lived their lives out on Earth, or headed for the Stargate. If they had constant contact with the Milky Way they would know if the technology existed there for what they needed ahead of time.

There are numerous references throughout the years that imply that there was no contact between Earth and Pegasus until the ancients came back. They didn't even know what was on Earth.

Mitchell82
January 28th, 2008, 03:27 PM
Because of this:



There are numerous references throughout the years that imply that there was no contact between Earth and Pegasus until the ancients came back. They didn't even know what was on Earth.

Thank you! Also Merlin said something about it in "The Quest" can't remember exactly what though.

robby
January 28th, 2008, 04:23 PM
It's possible the PLAGUE killed the MW ancients long before the PG Ancients came back. I don't recall there really being reference as to when the plague hit. It's likely that in the Millions of years that they were seperated, they probably called each other every now and then. Fully powered city and a fully powered Outpost, both being the only way to contact each other in their respective galaxies (assuming other gates in the MW also can't dial Pegasus, though based on what we know about the MW games, the DHD technology is probably different).

Mitchell82
January 28th, 2008, 10:31 PM
It's possible the PLAGUE killed the MW ancients long before the PG Ancients came back. I don't recall there really being reference as to when the plague hit. It's likely that in the Millions of years that they were seperated, they probably called each other every now and then. Fully powered city and a fully powered Outpost, both being the only way to contact each other in their respective galaxies (assuming other gates in the MW also can't dial Pegasus, though based on what we know about the MW games, the DHD technology is probably different).

The plague killed them after they returned from Pegasus. From season 6's Full Circle:
"It says that a plague hit the Ancients near the apex of their civilization and some learned to Ascend and the rest died off." Not word for word but close.

jelgate
January 28th, 2008, 11:06 PM
The plague killed them after they returned from Pegasus. From season 6's Full Circle:"It says that a plague hit the Ancients near the apex of their civilization and some learned to Ascend and the rest died off." Not word for word but close.I'm sorry that wrong. They left for the Pegasus Galaxy because of the plague. When they returned to Earth, their were only a small number of Ancients left who died out or ascended

FallenAngelII
January 29th, 2008, 02:57 AM
I noticed this too.

There are several possibility:
* Plothole
* Some Ancients were left behind, but I doubt this because, hello, plague (Ayiana only survived because she got frozen and, hey, the Ancients died out in the Milky Way) and the two factions communicated with each other throughout the ages.
* After the development of drones, some Ancients returned prematurely to the Milky Way to settle
* 10,000 years ago, not all Ancients simply led quiet lives or Ascended, some actually continued their work (like Janus) and thus, we have drones in the Milky Way.

Dutch_Razor
January 29th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Quoted for truth.

You don't start technology small and enlarge it. It's always the other way around. Start with something on a big scale, and then as tech advances, you shrink it down.

Unless we're talking rockets, planes, cars ;)

2ndgenerationalteran
January 29th, 2008, 06:23 PM
whats interesting is that there is a thread in the science and tech forrums talking about drones and got side tracked to this issue aswell...

PG15
January 30th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Something from TPTB:


Prior of the Ori writes: “McKay said that the planet was where they first developed Drone technology, does this mean they never had it back in the Milky Way?”

Answer: No, that was an oversight. The drone technology was developed in the Milky Way, but the mini-drone version was perfected in Pegasus.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/january-30-2008-and-the-big-news-iscoming-soon-plus-botm-nominees/

2ndgenerationalteran
January 30th, 2008, 10:26 PM
two new things, this sounds great a possible field weapon that may be introduced later

Prior_of_the_Ori
January 31st, 2008, 11:31 AM
Something from TPTB:

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/january-30-2008-and-the-big-news-iscoming-soon-plus-botm-nominees/

I thank Joe for that answer he gave me :D was about to post that but you beat me to it ;)

RepliVeggie
January 31st, 2008, 12:33 PM
Cool. Joe rocks for answering our questions.