PDA

View Full Version : 'Harmony' (414) General Discussion



Pages : [1] 2

GateWorld
January 24th, 2008, 07:48 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/414.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/414.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/414.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">HARMONY</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 414</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Colonel Sheppard and Dr. McKay must protect a child princess on a pilgrimage before she can become queen, and learn that she has dangerous enemies threatening her life.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/414.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

mi4si
January 25th, 2008, 07:52 PM
mini drones

Kribby
January 25th, 2008, 07:59 PM
I only saw the last 30 minutes but... I am very amused! Cute oneshot.

OaTmEaLfAiRy
January 25th, 2008, 08:00 PM
I wasn't expecting it to be the comedic episode it was. I love the pic at the end, and all the mention of beating Rodney.

Sweetsong
January 25th, 2008, 08:01 PM
There's always at least one thing in each episode that cracks me up, in this one it was...

Genii over radio: Huron, what's your status?
John pretending to be Huron: good.
Genii over radio: Elaborate
John: Real good.

/lol
To tell you the truth I thought the beast might have been the one from "Epiphany" it sure sounded like it, mini drones threw me for a loop.

And the ending was classic, rodney got the last laugh.

prion
January 25th, 2008, 08:01 PM
Wow, who would have thought one would feel absolute sympathy for Rodney McKay?

The ads were so-so, and it could have easily been this year's "The Tower," but it was well written and the Sheppard-McKay snark was in high gear, and I gotta admit, Rodney's suggestion of stunning the kid was so funny, cuz you could see Sheppard was actually thinking about it! Yeah, Harmony's like a little female Rodney McKay, well, with the ego, not the brains.

Shall do a running commentary... and it won't be huge.

"When you get cranky, you get hit." Heh..

And Rodney's nose leads them to the cave with the kid cooking up dinner.

Ohmygawd, Harmony was hitting on Sheppard. "One day I'll need a king." Bwahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!

And Harmony asking Rodney about love? And then Rodney promises not to get in the way of Harmony pursuing Sheppard? Aw, how sweet, and so funny. Snort.

Oh, and Jerry Penacoli from EXTRA was the second Genii taht Shepaprd stunned.

Loved how Shepaprd called Harmony "little lady."

And how Harmony thinks Sheppard is an idiot for taking her pendant, but now she adores McKay for saving her.

OHMYGAWD, THE PAINTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bwahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Things learned from this episode. Rodney and Katie aren't an item anymore, at least not the way he was talking about the sisters.
Women of all ages fall for Sheppard ;)
And for McKay ;)

This was funny!!!!

idlewild202
January 25th, 2008, 08:04 PM
:lol:

I honestly thought this was going to be a boring episode, instead I was laughing my tail off the entire time!! Rodney has met his match! LOL.

Favorite line was "She is a stuck up, know it all brat.... oh, ha ha ha ha"

I love John/Rodney eps, they are classic. And the ending was wonderful, oh that was to funny!! :D

Great episode, I really loved it. The second half of this season continues to impress me!

Shan Bruce Lee
January 25th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Genii over radio: Huron, what's your status?
John pretending to be Huron: good.
Genii over radio: Elaborate
John: Real good.

That was the best part of the show lol

Alicia
January 25th, 2008, 08:06 PM
Finally Sheppard and McKay together again! I so totally loved it! Way better than the last few episodes! Seeing those to together is just never getting old and I was lying there laughing throughout the whole episode!

Xicer
January 25th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Well...it was at least 20x better than The Tower. Definitely not the best episode of the season but pretty good for a filler. Story was meh. It was great seeing the Genii again, though they were a bit vague as the why they were there in the first place.

Some of the dialogue made me cringe, and for some reason I just didn't like the way Harmony spoke most of the time, but she did have some good lines.

Mini-drones, cool idea. They sorta remind me of those electric bee things in one of the earlier episodes of SG1. Only much more lethal of course. :P

Painting at the end was priceless...

My favorite line is definitely the part where Harmony talks about Rodney's annoying voice. I think she speaks for us all. :P

Briangate78
January 25th, 2008, 08:09 PM
After some of the darker eps and real character hardships like losing Weir this season, this was a good fun episode with some suspense and action. I am still laughing at the painting. :lol:

Does anyone have a screencap? :p

The ep was good for what it was. A nice stand alone eps that got us some laughs and a little Ancient technlogy background.

creed462
January 25th, 2008, 08:09 PM
I think the mini drones are a good addition

JohnRico
January 25th, 2008, 08:10 PM
I hate kid episodes like this on all shows but that painting at the end made it worth it.

SpikeBad
January 25th, 2008, 08:12 PM
I think that this episode should have had the full team in it instead of just John and Rodney. They should have at least had Ronan with them so the little girl could start crushing on him too.

And it would have been great if they showed both John and Ronan looking scared in the painting at the end with Rodney looking like the hero. That would have made that great painting look ten times better!

Landers
January 25th, 2008, 08:14 PM
A rather bland episode. The bratty kid got irritating pretty quickly, and it was obvious that McKay and Harmony would "bond" - a big deal was made of their friction and there was no where else for the story to go.

The Genii didn't seem to respond when McKay mentioned Ladon, so I assume it was some rogue group.

Drones. How exciting. *yawn*

The painting at the end was cute, but I wish there had been more to the plot. It just seemed to be a lot of rambling around the woods.

Ah well, better luck next week.

jelgate
January 25th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents
Every season has a bad episode or two. This one was Atlantis's Travelers. It actually was better than Travelers but the first 30 minutes were not that entertaing. I wouldn't haved blamed McKay if he had shot Harmony in the face. She was so annoying not to mention stupid. What was this stupid girl thinking. And what happened to that girls personality. One minute she is planning to hire bounty hunter to kill McKay, the next minute she is starting to understand him. Running away from Sheppard and McKay when she knew that the Geni were around. Why is it always the queen's sister that tries to assinate the queen. And don't even get me started on the fact that Carter, Ronon and, Teyla were missing from this episode with no explantion. Okay, now that is done, lets discuss the positive aspects to the episode. A little Ancient history is always nice to hear about. They developed mini-drones before actually drones, how interesting. As much as McKay whined in this episode, it nice to know that when it comes down to it, he is willing to sacrfice himself. Their was a lot of enjoyable humor in this episode like when Sheppard said his spidersense detected an ambush and the potrait that was made that showed McKay protecting the girl. Not a good episode, but considering this the 2nd bad episode of S4, I can be forgiving. I surelly hope Outcast is better.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Wow I've got to say this is definatly not what I expected. From all the spoilers and vids I was expecting a bland slow moving dull story. Wow was I surprised. It moved a bit slow at first and Harmony was getting a bit anoying then it picked up. Harmony proved the ying to Rodney's yang and they obviously had great chemistry. Man she reminded me of my neice when she was that age. I suspected that the older sister that was very curt at the start was the one responsible. Mini drones now that was interesting. This was a very cute, funny and all around fun episode. Way better than I feared. My one question is I wonder if Laden truly authorized this. I can't see him wanting to kill a kid. My guess is they were a rouge group. The painting at the end... LMAO! 9/10.

Vala_M
January 25th, 2008, 08:18 PM
This episode was great! I was expecting it to be dull but it wasn't. I don't know about anyone else but it felt like an eternity every time a commercial came on. I wonder if those were more rogue Genii or something. And did anyone else notice that Jodelle Ferland (Harmony) was also a young Adria in "Flesh and Blood"? Also, one of the medeival shields in the castle was originally used for Maybourne's planet in "It's Good To Be King"? The one with the Stargate in one of the quadrants.

Mini drones? What was that about? And McKay mentioning that they were searching for that planet for two years. What was that about? I know it was another instance of something being written in that was never mentioned before but apparently was something they were looking for for a while but we never heard about it. Why would the Ancients have made mini drones before going full size? And do they get reused or are more created automatically? Since it would be a problem if they ran out. Another planet with people with the ATA gene, interesting. I kept hearing people say that this was going to be like "The Tower", now, I liked that episode so when I say it was like it, I mean in a good way, except this episode was better. And yeah, I thought that the beast was going to be something like in "Epiphany" as well.

Harmony falling for Sheppard was unexpected for me, I'm surprised the writers went there, I guess alien planets have different customs. I liked how she ended up favoring McKay in the end though. That was funny.

The painting was great at the end. How was it painted so quickly?

Vala,

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 08:20 PM
After some of the darker eps and real character hardships like losing Weir this season, this was a good fun episode with some suspense and action. I am still laughing at the painting. :lol:

Does anyone have a screencap? :p

The ep was good for what it was. A nice stand alone eps that got us some laughs and a little Ancient technlogy background.

Agreed and definatly one I will cherish. I usually love these fun eps and depsite my fears this was very good. A nice shift from drama to comedy for a change.

s09119
January 25th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Wow... I was seriously expecting another "The Tower", and so I braced myself for a pathetic snore-fest of sexual inuendo...

Boy, was I wrong! "Harmony" was so much more than I'd expected, I don't even know where to begin; actually, I do. Let's start with the plot, which was, as to be expected... interesting, to say the least. There was the standard premise for a "Tower" sequel; the new queen needs escorts, and who better than the Atlanteans? The Genii were an interesting twist, though it doesn't make sense for Ladon to continue on this course, knowing that Earth could easily wipe them out... I hope he didn't know what was going on.

Harmony herself never grew on me, though. I continued to see her as a whiny, arrogant, inconsiderate brat throughout the entire episode. Her continual insistance that she, the leader of a primitive group of humans, could hope to jail and torture a member of the Atlantis Expedition was laughable, as I'm sure a jumper blasting apart their castle would end things fairly quickly.

The idea of "mini-drones" was interesting, although confusing; if the Lanteans had access to such an effective anti-infantry weapon, they should have easily been able to shred armies of Wraith soldiers... another goof by the writers, I suppose, giving the Ancients technology that makes their defeat seem impossible.

But overall, I enjoyed the comedy episode "Harmony" was intended as, and for that I award it:

***

Landers
January 25th, 2008, 08:23 PM
Harmony falling for Sheppard was unexpected for me, I'm surprised the writers went there, I guess alien planets have different customs.

One of the Conan movies had him protecting a stuck up young girl on her way to another castle and she developed a huge crush on him, wanted him to be her king, blah, blah, blah. Been done a hundred times.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents
Every season has a bad episode or two. This one was Atlantis's Travelers. It actually was better than Travelers but the first 30 minutes were not that entertaing.
Wow I never thought I'd disagree with you this much on an ep. The first 10 or so minutes moved slow but it was needed for the backstory. By the second break it was very good.


I wouldn't haved blamed McKay if he had shot Harmony in the face. She was so annoying not to mention stupid. What was this stupid girl thinking. And what happened to that girls personality. One minute she is planning to hire bounty hunter to kill McKay, the next minute she is starting to understand him.
Wow she wasn't that bad. As to her personality she is a 12 year old girl what's strange? She was switching between one to the other when she needed to get her way. Typical teenage girl.

Running away from Sheppard and McKay when she knew that the Geni were around. Why is it always the queen's sister that tries to assinate the queen. And don't even get me started on the fact that Carter, Ronon and, Teyla were missing from this episode with no explantion.
That's not a big deal. I knew it would focus on Shep and Mckay and especially in this case the others were not needed.

Okay, now that is done, lets discuss the positive aspects to the episode. A little Ancient history is always nice to hear about. They developed mini-drones before actually drones, how interesting. As much as McKay whined in this episode, it nice to know that when it comes down to it, he is willing to sacrfice himself. Their was a lot of enjoyable humor in this episode like when Sheppard said his spidersense detected an ambush and the potrait that was made that showed McKay protecting the girl. Not a good episode, but considering this the 2nd bad episode of S4, I can be forgiving. I surelly hope Outcast is better.
Those were great parts of this ep but the whole ep was good IMO. I see your point but I expected a let down and was presently surprised.

JohnRico
January 25th, 2008, 08:27 PM
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9746/56854465um7.jpg

the fifth man
January 25th, 2008, 08:32 PM
That is so awesome!:D That painting had my Dad and I laughing for awhile afterwards.

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. I agree that it had a slow start, but was great in the second half. Much funnier than I had thought it would be.

Chezlee
January 25th, 2008, 08:32 PM
Little brat Lol. It was so cute how she thought she and John had a relationship, so very much like youguns and older guys, thanks goodness John had more sense ;)

Very funny, I was laughing every five seconds, especially when John expressed the wish that Ronon was there :D I liked this episode a lot very uncomplicated and "non-political" in the way of Atlantis's inner workings and the speculations it entails. 9/10 for Harmony :)

Major_Griff
January 25th, 2008, 08:33 PM
Good ep. It was better than I thought from the promo. The end was classic. Rodney firing the P-90 with Johnny cowering in fear behind Harmony lolz! Was the head Genii dude the same actor who played the head Jaffa in Orpheus? I think it was. I think the Orders to kill John and Rodney came from him and not Ladon. He probably had no idea that they were involved. Oh, and I loved the dibbs part in the beginning, that was funny. Overall it was a good ep that was both a let down and a pleasant surprise. A let down because the last few episodes have all be awesome, and this just wasn't on that level, but a pleasant surprise because it was a lot better than I thought it would be. 7/10.

joebags
January 25th, 2008, 08:34 PM
I swear our group walked around that same fallen tree 50 times this episode!

That smarmy girl was funny for 5 minutes, then I wanted someone to duct tape her mouth. I just never got into this episode, it was just slow with the "princess" and McKay b****ing at each other while walking in circles around the forest. The painting was at least funny.

At least we didn't have to deal with "administrator" Carter, or poor Keller whining about her horrid, partyless childhood.

Hmm. Maybe this wasn't so bad after all. ;)

Shan Bruce Lee
January 25th, 2008, 08:35 PM
The woman that played Mardola looks a lot different than she did in SG-1...
Crystal Lowe = Nya/Mardola (http://http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0522909/)

Wilson3Girl
January 25th, 2008, 08:49 PM
McKay: (to Shep) "Ass kisser....." :)

The painting was a scream.

Rodney sniffing out the chicken and begging Shep to use the stunner
on the little princess: "I still have the unnerstay......" Gotta love the pig latin.

I know Jerry Pennacoli (sp?) is a big-time tv interviewer now, but I remember him from his days on a little NY talk show called "Attitudes". He cried a lot when he did interviews as I recall.......

All in all, a cute episode.


Wilson3Girl

GateLadyM
January 25th, 2008, 08:50 PM
Wow, we were treated to a travelogue through the Vancouver woods with Smarty Pants Barbie.

Not sure if I cared for this or not. There were some funny gags, but a few jokes don't make a good story. The Genii seemed out of place, and I couldn't figure out why this bratty 13 year old was considered the "best" to rule over both older sisters. All she wanted to do was beat up people. Some ruler. What sort of society is this world? Maybe it would have been nice to see more of that than our threesome walking and talking through the lush greenery over and over, and over.

The painting was fun and left the audience with a chuckle, but the whole thing was rather empty.

Irish Eyes
January 25th, 2008, 08:51 PM
This was truly a filler episode. And I liked it!

I think I was one of the few actually looking forward to this one. :)

I liked Harmony throughout the show. She wasn't a total brat and when she was, well, Rodney was bringing it out by being bratty himself. And really her big concern was being a good leader for her people. Not a bad quality.

I thought it was funny how John wasn't picking up on her not-so-subtle signals that she was interested in him. Of course, when she told him she would be needing a king, the light finally dawned.

Lots of good conversation between John and Rodney. And I'm sure we'll get some great screen caps of their expressions throughout as they dealt with Harmony.

Sure, there was some stuff that was fairly predictable, but I just really enjoyed the performance of the main three. It was nice to get an episode that I was into since the last two episodes were just "meh" for me.

gravelgerdie
January 25th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Was it the best episode... No
Was it horrible...No
But it did have its great moments in the back half of the episode.
The John crush was not a suprise at all. At least Rodney told Harmony she was the most mature one out of all the girls that want John. LOL
I so absolutely loved it when Harmony got a crush on McKay at the end and the painting was priceless. OMG I couldn't stop laughing, it was like YES finally McKay looks like the hero and John looks silly...
But above all, I always enjoy it when they have John and Rodney(buddies) episode.... can't get enough of those.. Those two just click together.

marielabbott
January 25th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Some of my very favorite episodes are McKay/Sheppard heavy ones. I've watched The Defiant One and Trinity countless times. I love their bantering friendship. This episode didn't reach that level for me; it was ok, but not great.

There were some nice lines, like Shep's "spidy sense" and I laughed out loud at McKay's comment that Harmony is more mature than most of the women Sheppard falls for. Harmony herself was ok, but perhaps too annoying and bratty, even for a 13-year-old princess. I did really like McKay shielding her from gunfire near the end--Rodney finally saves a kid, like he talked about way back in Hot Zone. :)

But the episode was pretty slow-paced; maybe that's what made the banter between these two feel a bit flat and off at times. It was good to see the Genii (I've missed them this season), but they easily could have been any group of hired thugs. We didn't learn anything about how, or if, they were affected by the Replicator/Wraith war, or if Ladon is still their leader. I guess I was expecting more from their appearance. Also, I pegged the evil sister as the bad guy from the first time she spoke; that was a bit too predictable. And, um, mini drones? Seemed a bit random.

I liked this episode much better than last week's, but I also won't be rewatching it repeatedly.

Erised
January 25th, 2008, 09:07 PM
Was this episode a joke?

Chailyn
January 25th, 2008, 09:09 PM
I hate having bratty, little kids on tv shows. How is it a good idea to give a twelve-year-old the majority of the script when it's a show geared for adults? This is my own pet peeve, so I understand if others felt differently. Personally, the fact that the annoying brat survived and was crowned was enough to entirely ruin any hope of redemption.

Besides the kid, the whole plot was beyond predictable. Who didn't see the whole "beast" being connected to the brat? And the Ancient tech just happens to be something Rodney has been searching for? Hit one for coincidence. I never want to see this child or her people again.

However, I loved getting the whole Sheppard/McKay relationship again. Their friendship has really grown and it's nice to see them depend on each other. I really liked that Rodney called Sheppard "John" throughout the episode. Like the rest of the team, it's nice to see them on a first name basis now too. This episode was a complete love/hate for me. Loved the boys on screen together again, hated the plot with the brat. If the kid plot had been replaced with anything else I probably would have loved it seeing as it was so McKay/Sheppard focused. :(

the fifth man
January 25th, 2008, 09:10 PM
Was this episode a joke?

If so, it was one that made me laugh.:)

FoolishPleasure
January 25th, 2008, 09:20 PM
The problem with this episode was that it didn't know just "what" it was supposed to be. Was it a comedic episode, ala "Window of Opportunity" or "The Other Guys"? Was it a drama, with a woman trying to murder her younger sister and stage an uprising, with our heroes trapped in the deep woods, having to shoot their way out? What the heck was this supposed to be?

Yes, there were a few good jokes, but there was death, deception, a relative trying to murder a child! Sorry, but jokes and murder don't quite mix.

If TPTB were going for a funny episode, they should have gone all the way. They CAN do it, as WoO has shown, but this just came across as a total mess, as if written by committee. One guy wanted comedy, but another wanted heavy drama, someone else wanted Rodney to finally save a kid - hey, let's mix it all up together and VOILA!

I did like the painting, and the mouthy kid didn't bother me too much, but overall this episode didn't work on any level for me.

Shipperahoy
January 25th, 2008, 09:21 PM
Honestly this was my least favorite episode so far this season. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't great either. I know that it's all meant in good fun but I really do think that whole thing with every female being besotted with Shep is getting really tired. The twist with Rodney ending up being the object of affection made it a tad more bearable but I seriously think that John is starting to come across as kind of an egomaniacal Bond type.

The kid was cute and her interaction with Rodney was funny but it wasn't enough to carry the show for me.

Jeffala
January 25th, 2008, 09:27 PM
I like the idea of having Rodney flogged for being insolent.

FoolishPleasure
January 25th, 2008, 09:28 PM
I like the idea of having Rodney flogged for being insolent.

Yeah, that kid is gonna make a great leader, especially after her own sister tried to have her killed. :S

gravelgerdie
January 25th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Honestly this was my least favorite episode so far this season. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't great either. I know that it's all meant in good fun but I really do think that whole thing with every female being besotted with Shep is getting really tired. The twist with Rodney ending up being the object of affection made it a tad more bearable but I seriously think that John is starting to come across as kind of an egomaniacal Bond type.

The kid was cute and her interaction with Rodney was funny but it wasn't enough to carry the show for me.

I agree with you on it getting old that every woman falls for John..... I'm rolling my eyes everytime that happens. Its time for that to not always happen to him.
But at the end of the show, when the girl was besotted on Rodney and the picture, it was priceless... I was going finally, its Rodney that looks the hero...

Agent_Dark
January 25th, 2008, 09:33 PM
what a crap episode. they should have just shot the kid at teh start and let the hot chick take over. would have been at least 7x better.

marielabbott
January 25th, 2008, 09:35 PM
I know that it's all meant in good fun but I really do think that whole thing with every female being besotted with Shep is getting really tired. The twist with Rodney ending up being the object of affection made it a tad more bearable but I seriously think that John is starting to come across as kind of an egomaniacal Bond type.

Yeah, that kind of annoyed me too. Sheppard's great and all--he's one of my favorite characters--but I find it hard to believe every female would be besotted with him, as you say. (Though I'm sure the thunkers may disagree) :P

Jeffala
January 25th, 2008, 09:37 PM
what a crap episode. they should have just shot the kid at teh start and let the hot chick take over. would have been at least 7x better.

The one who was obviously evil because she was showing the goods to everybody and their brother?


As opposed to the one who kept her stuffs semi-hidden behind a not-quite-whorish neckline.

Erised
January 25th, 2008, 09:45 PM
The painting at the end ruined it SO BAD. I've yet to see something that lasted for a few seconds ruin an episode...but this one did.

Agent_Dark
January 25th, 2008, 09:45 PM
The painting at the end ruined it SO BAD. I've yet to see something that lasted for a few seconds ruin an episode...but this one did.

was the only lol part of the episode. if they had of cut it down to the final 10seconds it might have been ok.

1138
January 25th, 2008, 09:50 PM
The Genii were mercenaries; they were being paid by the other sister. So the Genii leadership may not be involved.

jds1982
January 25th, 2008, 09:51 PM
Predictable plot, but entertaining.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 25th, 2008, 09:59 PM
Wow, we were treated to a travelogue through the Vancouver woods with Smarty Pants Barbie.

Not sure if I cared for this or not. There were some funny gags, but a few jokes don't make a good story. The Genii seemed out of place, and I couldn't figure out why this bratty 13 year old was considered the "best" to rule over both older sisters.

It probably had something to do with the Ancient gene. But honestly, the show just wouldn't have been as funny if ti were one of the older sisters. And McKay would've never gotten the girl if it had been lmao.

Demerzel
January 25th, 2008, 10:00 PM
The painting. Single best moment of S4 so far, maybe second to the fleet sequence in BAMSR. I'll never forget that scene. Otherwise, kinda okay episode for a filler I guess. Mini-drones were bleh. Might as well put mini-wraiths for practice targets, with little mini-hives floating around launching mini-darts that tries to attack toy-sized versions of Atlantis, with mini-jumpers defending it by launching said mini-drones. Whatever.

Only thing that was missing was Harmony getting a full clip of P90 in the face. I think I wanted to see her get shot more than I wanted to see Kavanagh get his ass kicked by Ronon back in S2. I love Jodelle Ferland, but God was she annoying!

Shan Bruce Lee
January 25th, 2008, 10:03 PM
I laughed out loud at McKay's comment that Harmony is more mature than most of the women Sheppard falls for.

I almost forgot about that. That's another one of the most hilarious lines in this ep.

It seems like they took a completely different aproach to the comedy in this episode than they did on some of the "comedy" episodes of SG-1 and it worked.

ToasterOnFire
January 25th, 2008, 10:06 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Shep/McKay, so an ep dedicated to them is automatically not going to rank that high with me. Also: filler! And rather bland filler at that. The plot was predictable - future queenie has to prove herself so Shep and McKay play bodyguards, older sis plots to have the younger one offed, completely nonthreatening tension with the Genii ensues, queenie wins the day. I don't care much for eps where I can call almost everything that happens. Also, I thought most of the quips fell flat. As the bf says "they spent an ep on this?"

And the precocious brat? Meh and yawn. Of COURSE Shep is going to take her side in the Powerbar battle while she pretends to cry. Of COURSE she's going to play sweetie to Shep while dagger-eying McKay! Of COURSE she's going to be a nuisance while there's danger. :rolleyes:

Seriously, the whole "every female falls for Shep!" plotline has jumped the shark when 13 year old girls get moony after seeing him. :rolleyes:

The best thing? That first scene where they started walking in that huge valley was the same location in BSG's Kobol's Last Gleaming where Baltar et al. crashed. Pretty place. ;)

Ranks at the bottom with Travelers and Quarantine for me. Is it time for Kindred yet?

Shan Bruce Lee
January 25th, 2008, 10:09 PM
The Genii were mercenaries; they were being paid by the other sister. So the Genii leadership may not be involved.

That makes sense. Did they say that in the episode? I don't remember it.

McKayManiacs92
January 25th, 2008, 10:11 PM
I thought it was a "ok" episode....I'm not one who doesn't like Mckay (duh) or Sheppard...but really, how many episodes are they going to have that focus so much (or all of it) on just them!

The girl was wonderful I think.....and there were a lot of great moments for me between her and Sheppard/ her and McKay.

Ataman
January 25th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Excellent episode- I laughed out loud at the end.

Would everyone agree that the writing for the last 5 episodes has been pretty solid. It doesn't look like SGA is moving along the path-of-poor-writing that Star Trek Voyager blazed.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:12 PM
Honestly this was my least favorite episode so far this season. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't great either. I know that it's all meant in good fun but I really do think that whole thing with every female being besotted with Shep is getting really tired. The twist with Rodney ending up being the object of affection made it a tad more bearable but I seriously think that John is starting to come across as kind of an egomaniacal Bond type.

The kid was cute and her interaction with Rodney was funny but it wasn't enough to carry the show for me.

The whole Shep argument might be easier to accept though you're sig kinda makes it harder to accept.;) I might agree if it was overdone here but it wasnt. For me the "kirking" wasnt bad at all and the Mckay kirking was cute. The banter was very well done here. I really expected a stinker but was pleasntly surprised.

Lord batchi ball
January 25th, 2008, 10:13 PM
This episode was so predictable.

I knew the second I saw that other sister she would be nvolved with the Genii.

I knew they would find some control counsel for "the beast"

I liked the fact they found the Drone reasearch faculity, but it sucks they look like those eletrical bugs. And mini drones, I kept thinking of those crappy mini burgers, the same thing just smaller and less satisfying.

Liked the fact Rodney got his moment of glory and that its captured in ink.

And the leader of the Genii is that Jaffa commander from Baals ship building planet.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:17 PM
This episode was so predictable.

I knew the second I saw that other sister she would be nvolved with the Genii.
I suspected but wasnt 100%.


I knew they would find some control counsel for "the beast"
I didn't. At first I was afraid we would see another beast like in Epiphany(which I loved btw) but was surprised it was mini drones.


I liked the fact they found the Drone reasearch faculity, but it sucks they look like those eletrical bugs. And mini drones, I kept thinking of those crappy mini burgers, the same thing just smaller and less satisfying.
They looked nothing like those. THey looked like tadpoles.


Liked the fact Rodney got his moment of glory and that its captured in ink.
That was sweet.


And the leader of the Genii is that Jaffa commander from Baals ship building planet.
Now that you mention that you're right nice catch.

Shipperahoy
January 25th, 2008, 10:19 PM
The whole Shep argument might be easier to accept though you're sig kinda makes it harder to accept.;) I might agree if it was overdone here but it wasnt. For me the "kirking" wasnt bad at all and the Mckay kirking was cute. The banter was very well done here. I really expected a stinker but was pleasntly surprised.

I'm not really sure how my signature with pics of Cliff Simon taking his shirt off at a convention has anything to do with my feeling that the they've overused the whole alien women falling for Sheppard bit. If I were complaining that he was running around shirtless then maybe I could see the comparison but as is I just don't see what you're aiming at.

I didn't hate the episode but I do think that all the shameless kirking sort of undermines Shepard as a military officer at times. It's a pet peeve but if people dig it then I'm happy for them.

mago1978
January 25th, 2008, 10:19 PM
No question one of the worst episodes of the series and the worst of the season.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 25th, 2008, 10:21 PM
And the leader of the Genii is that Jaffa commander from Baals ship building planet.

I didn't know that. Was there anyone in the supporting cast of this episode that hasn't been on SG-1?

EdenSG
January 25th, 2008, 10:22 PM
Not the greatest episode, but for a light, filler episode I really enjoyed it.

The McKay-Sheppard banter is always fun but at times felt just a little flat. I don’t know what I enjoyed more, the actual verbal banter back and forth or the looks they gave each other. One that stands out is the end where Harmony is first praising McKay as her new hero, John looks exasperated then walks away – loved it.

Harmony baiting McKay and setting him up to get in “trouble” with John instead of her. It was fun seeing Rodney match wits with a 13 year old teenage girl – and let me tell you, 13 year old teenage girls can be very manipulative and very dangerous. ;) While at times I did think her bratty attitude was a bit overdone. on the whole it worked.

Harmony having a crush first on John, then switching to Rodney at the end; again, is so very much like a 13 year old teenage girl. And the picture at the end – every teenage girl I know has a picture of their hero or their latest heart throb hanging in their room. Now Harmony has Rodney!

Liked the idea of the Ancient experiment and mini drones. I hope they revisit this in a future episode; it would be nice to learn a bit more about them.

Nice to see the Genii again, though I wish there was more background as to why they were there. Was it just to stop Harmony so they could resume trading with the planet again? Seems a bit extreme; or were they interested in the mini drones? In “Phantoms” the Genii were interested and messed around with the Wraith experiment. I guess I wonder if and/or what the Genii are up to. In the “Return Part 1” Ladon seemed to indicate to Teyla and Ronon that they had a plan but we have heard little since then. And was this a rogue group or were they under Ladon? (I think most likely rogue)

The picture at the end! Loved both John and McKay’s expressions.

Joe F and David H both did a great job.

8/10

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:25 PM
I'm not really sure how my signature with pics of Cliff Simon taking his shirt off at a convention has anything to do with my feeling that the they've overused the whole alien women falling for Sheppard bit. If I were complaining that he was running around shirtless then maybe I could see the comparison but as is I just don't see what you're aiming at.
I was teasing sorry if it came off wrong.


I didn't hate the episode but I do think that all the shameless kirking sort of undermines Shepard as a military officer at times. It's a pet peeve but if people dig it then I'm happy for them.
I see your point but no one is as bad as Kirk especially Shep.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:25 PM
No question one of the worst episodes of the series and the worst of the season.

Uh uh. That would be The Tower.

Lord batchi ball
January 25th, 2008, 10:28 PM
Uh uh. That would be The Tower.

Well IMO it was this episode. I found the tower to be much better.

jelgate
January 25th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Uh uh. That would be The Tower.Actually the worst episode of the series was The Irr's

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:31 PM
Actually the worst episode of the series was The Irr's

Well I actually liked those and The Tower though they are the lowest ones on my fav list.

Shipperahoy
January 25th, 2008, 10:34 PM
I didn't find it nearly as hard to watch as the Unholy Trinity of The Tower, Irresistable, and Irresponsible. I had a few nitpicks and found it overall a bit too silly at times but it was still entertaining and I laughed quite a few times.

wm_1987
January 25th, 2008, 10:38 PM
It wasn't my favorite, but it wasn't bad. I did like how Sheppard said that McKay made him cry sometimes also. That was cute. Other than that it was okay.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:38 PM
I didn't find it nearly as hard to watch as the Unholy Trinity of The Tower, Irresistable, and Irresponsible. I had a few nitpicks and found it overall a bit too silly at times but it was still entertaining and I laughed quite a few times.

Especially at the painting right? BTW you did see my apology, I didn't mean to come off like it did.

ToasterOnFire
January 25th, 2008, 10:39 PM
No question one of the worst episodes of the series and the worst of the season.
No argument with the latter - this ep was pretty bad. No way a painting, however well done, however lulzy, is going to make up for this waste of an hour.

Now the worst ep of the series? Lucius wins hands down there. ;)

Shipperahoy
January 25th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Especially at the painting right? BTW you did see my apology, I didn't mean to come off like it did.

Don't worry about it. I didn't take offense I just wasn't sure what the comparison was.

1138
January 25th, 2008, 10:48 PM
That makes sense. Did they say that in the episode? I don't remember it.

Yes. Right after the leader of the Genii mercenaries went to the castle to speak to the sister and give her the radio, she says that they'll get 3 times the pay for killing all three people.

Mitchell82
January 25th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Don't worry about it. I didn't take offense I just wasn't sure what the comparison was.

Just checking.

Amakusa
January 25th, 2008, 11:10 PM
I can't stand these typical stories with self-absorbed cute kids. Actually, I generally hate stories that center around cute kids (probably why I didn't miss it when Babylon 5 ran its course-- it didn't have any). It's not nearly as funny as self-absorbed grown men for the fact they ARE kids and humans are generally born to be receptive toward their young as a species.

I was waiting for the come-uppance that didn't happen. I just plain hate that character.

Kliggins
January 25th, 2008, 11:12 PM
Poor TV, attacked by things being thrown at it.

Ruffles
January 25th, 2008, 11:13 PM
This is the one ep I have not been looking forward to since it was announced. So imagine my surprise when I liked it! It wasn't the darkest or the funniest or the angstiest or the coolest or any other -est, but it was entertaining.

Nice to see a bit of normalcy. Even though they didn't say where Ronon was (at least he was mentioned!) I imagine the idea of spending time nurturing trade relations sent him searching for just about anything else to do.

McKay calling dibs on the sister before even seeing her was a hoot. He was either trying to drown his sorrows in that glass of wine, or he has already moved on from Katie.

Harmony was a perfect 13 year-old - self-centered, manipulative, moony-eyed over the cute guy, demanding, a know-it-all. I did have an issue with the way she spoke - seemed a bit overly formal and unnatural. And then she says "the coast is clear". What?

The snark between her and McKay was hilarious. I loved her stealing the PowerBar and blaming it on him and her threats to have him beaten or killed by bounty hunters. I wondered when she asked John why he didn't have Rodney beaten for his incessant talking if John had considered it before.

Rodney being the tracker by following the scent of food was great as was Sheppard's expression when he finally clued in that the kid had a crush on him.

Really liked seeing military Sheppard when he found a strategic position to shoot the first 3 Genii with one shot. And it was great to see brave Rodney in action. I really liked that he didn't hesitate for an instant before shielding Harmony from the shooting.

It was easy to pick which sister was the bad one, but I like that it wasn't played up as a big mystery. And I thought the mini-drone idea was a cool concept for "the beast". Drone research.... Now that Rodney is a hero of the queen I guess he'll get to spend lots of time digging through the ruins.

Speaking of which - the painting!!! LOVED it. Totally seen through a teenage girl's eyes. She stands bravely as hero Rodney defends her and usurper John hides. I'm sure that what she thinks she saw anyway. I so hope Rodney had a camera with him. I'd love to see that pop up as someone's screensaver in a future ep.

metabog
January 25th, 2008, 11:34 PM
I am loving this :D

This season almost all episodes exceeded people's expectations, unlike last season. Atlantis is truly and finally getting better. Even the fillers are good now.

morjana
January 26th, 2008, 12:48 AM
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9746/56854465um7.jpg

Oh...thank YOU so much!

LOL!

:)

Morjana

morjana
January 26th, 2008, 01:11 AM
I liked this episode -- I'd give it 6 flying mini-glowy squids out of 10. I chuckled and laughed quite a few times through it, so as a comedy episode it scored.

I wonder if those little flying "energy" beings in The Defiant One were also mini-drones and not "energy" beings. And if they're related to the energy beings in "Prodigy." (Although, they were also used several times in episodes of the new Outer Limits series...)

When the "Beast" was mentioned, and then never seen -- and Harmony said SHE was protected by the beast - I thought of the ID monster from "Forbidden Planet," and was pleasantly surprised when the Beast turned out to be...Ancient mini-drones! LOL!

Interesting that another civilization in the Pegasus Galaxy also has the Ancient gene.

I had a feeling that Harmony was leading up to something with Shep, but was totally unprepared when she mentioned she would be needing a King in the future! LOL! I bet that scared five years off of Shep!

I have mixed feelings about Harmony's character -- as someone mentioned, she was like a female min-Rodney. Why couldn't she have been more like Kim Darby's character, Mattie Ross, in "True Grit?" She was a pain in the mikta too, annoying, and headstrong -- but she was admirable.

I LOVED the painting at the end of the episode.

Also LOVED the location filming for this episode. Very beautiful, and that scene with Shep, McKay and Harmony walking with the sunset in the background...just stunning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/scifi4/h3.jpg

Aethon
January 26th, 2008, 01:26 AM
Lol, the painting! Sheppards painting!

Platschu
January 26th, 2008, 02:11 AM
Weak and boring episode. It is a shame that they wasted an episode for this adventure after BAMSR or SOW. 4/10 point.

Leliana McKay
January 26th, 2008, 02:28 AM
This episode was soooo funny!

Jodelle was just awesome. The kid has talent! And Joe and David were also perfect. The Rodney-John friendship banter is as it should be... teasing!
I was reluctant at first about the plot but it turned out great.

I loved the quarels between Harmony and Rodney, I find it funny they kept comparing their attitudes. I guess Harmony brings the most childish side of Rodney out.
The love sick puppy Harmony towards John was annoying. I guess the writers love John as Kirk. Speaking of Kirk, Flora using her charms on John was plain boring, my reaction is pretty much Rodney's facial expression.

Thesmell of chicken is the secret clue!!! (that had me lmao) Rodney's nose takes action and a snuffer dog like Rodney finds the cave where Harmony is!! GOOD DOG!! **Pets Rodney**

Harmony proposing to John was cute! Disturbing, but cute. John was so uncomfortable!! John wanting to investigate the best to which Rodney protests /squeals... it was such a girly sound! (I guess this is what Jodelle meant by David's funny voices)

Harmony asking love advice to Rodney. ahahahahah .....ahahahah

Rodney throwing himself on Harmony to protect her. And, she, saying he is a hero meanwhile John is totally being ignored and mistreated... that's the way it should be! **rodney fangirl talking**

The last scene had me laughing so much. I so want this painting!! Rodney as the fierce warrior and John quivering behind him and Harmony. And to top it up, Rodney's "That's pretty much how I remind it".

Pharaoh Atem
January 26th, 2008, 02:48 AM
glad to see rodney get the glory for once. i missed the beginning but i enjoyed this episode alot more then i thought i would :D

the paiting is great :P

Integrabyte
January 26th, 2008, 03:31 AM
...and I thought it can't get worse. TPTB proves me wrong every time. I stopped watching after 15 minutes...

Deckker
January 26th, 2008, 04:08 AM
I found it a great break from the normal stuff we see all the time. Not the best esp, but it was pretty decent. The only real comment I can make,

Harmony is a seriously tripped out poltically super trainined person. So politically skill but still immature....Oh what a laugh when she proposed....

g.o.d
January 26th, 2008, 04:47 AM
this episode was utter rubbish. Completly uselles and incredibly boring

Southern Red
January 26th, 2008, 05:57 AM
Once upon a time in a land far far away...

What an utterly delightful episode. Thank you writers for giving me something to enjoy once again. I had almost given up hope. We laughed, we yelled things at the screen, and we applauded at the end. After all the drama of this season, the dark sets and the soap opera angst, this was a breath of fresh air. I don't care how cliched it was or how predictable. I just enjoyed seeing my boys off on an adventure again, kicking butt, taking names and snarking at each other. Just like the good 'ol days of season one.

I taught 13 year old girls for a very long time, and believe me when I tell you, Harmony was the quintessential 13 year old girl made even more acerbic by her royal blood. Perfect characterization and admirable acting by Jodelle. That young lady has a bright future.

JF and DH as always are best when acting against each other. They just work like a fine oiled machine. More more more please. But put a kid into the mix and the talent increases exponentially. Both their responses to Harmony were perfect. Shep just never sees it coming, does he?

The so-called "kirking" here was not offensive in the least. The only time I have really been bothered by this was way back in The Tower. I think the fan reaction has been vastly over the top ever since. After all, he if free to date whomever he pleases, right?

And the picture was just the cherry on top of the ice cream sundae. When the final scene started my husband commented that they had switched from The Princess Bride to Star Wars. True, but then that little twist with the picture and the priceless look on John's face just topped it all. Well done to everyone involved.

jonno
January 26th, 2008, 06:15 AM
Well, seeing as I was expecting this to be beyond aweful (kids, medieval style princesses around Sheppard) I was more than pleasantly surprised. True, it did have cringe-worthy moments, they were far fewer in quantity than I was predicted, and balanced by some proper LOL moments which I feared would be thin on the ground.

It won't be one of the best episodes ever - but as mid-season light filler, it entertained and succeeded. 6/10, put up to 7/10 as I was expecting dross, so t'was a nice surprise.

dasNdanger
January 26th, 2008, 07:00 AM
This was such an enjoyable episode! I think as the season winds down with some (promised) intensity, we will look back at Harmony as the refreshing highlight of the season. Was it a bit of fluff? Yeah, sure...but what a joy to see 'what goes around, comes around' for Sheppard! Karma, baby! (Okay - I say this fresh off of re-watching Poisoning the Well, and bristling at his unforgivable taunting of Steve. I was really ready for some pay-backs. :D )

Also, if you want to think a little deeper about this episode - the child was an excellent example of how we should not judge books by their cover...both in how she eventually showed a softer side of herself, and in how she looked at the two men.

At first, she was taken (perhaps) by John's looks, and his position. But she was able to see that he can be a real jerk, too. Rodney - perhaps also based on looks and overall whininess - became her target. But then she saw his dedication to his work, and his willingness to put his life on the line - and - well...she was impressed. Heck, I think even I was impressed!

Good episode. Actually liked it much better than Quarantine.

das

SierraGolf-OneNiner
January 26th, 2008, 07:20 AM
I give this episode 4/10.

I liked the fact that they included the Genii in an episode again. It was great continuity that Rodney mentioned the alliance with the Genii. The picture at the end of the episode was awesome. I can see it now that Rodney will make a copy of that for Atlantis.

I disliked the fact that only McKay and Sheppard were in this episode. The show does have other characters, doesn't it?

Who were these people? They seem to be trading with Atlantis for some time now. Were these the people from "The Tower"?

Didn't the little girl play Adria on SG-1?

prion
January 26th, 2008, 08:01 AM
glad to see rodney get the glory for once. i missed the beginning but i enjoyed this episode alot more then i thought i would :D

the paiting is great :P

Heh, actually, Rodney did get the girl. Literally, she was a girl, and she thinks he's the best thing since Cheese Whiz now ;) He sucks up adoration like a black hole sucks up stars ;)

Mathemagician
January 26th, 2008, 08:25 AM
One of the worst episodes ever IMO, second possibly only to Tabula Rasa.
The funny portrait in the end was a laugh, but didn't save the episode.
I saw the twist of Harmony dropping John and adoring Rodney coming from like 20 minutes away.
All three sisters were *****es, one arrogant, one manipulative and Harmony was both. At least she is the most likely to grow out of it.
The first episode that I almost turned off after 10 minutes.

Mathemagician
January 26th, 2008, 08:26 AM
Besides, just how many rogue Genii are out there ??? Cheap plot device, I'd say.

prion
January 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Besides, just how many rogue Genii are out there ???

probably dozens if not more. there was no rhyme or reason for the genii going rogue like this, and well, it wuldn't surprise me if the writers neglect to bring this up later on. like, out of sight, out of mind? that was a plot flaw, and although they were slightly outgunned, it seemed sorta cold-blooded for sheppard to gun down the three genii, when, since it seemed they did have a stunner on hand, they could have used that...

blue-skyz
January 26th, 2008, 08:33 AM
probably dozens if not more. there was no rhyme or reason for the genii going rogue like this, and well, it wuldn't surprise me if the writers neglect to bring this up later on. like, out of sight, out of mind? that was a plot flaw, and although they were slightly outgunned, it seemed sorta cold-blooded for sheppard to gun down the three genii, when, since it seemed they did have a stunner on hand, they could have used that...
I don't think Sheppard knew McKay had the stunner at that point.

Mathemagician
January 26th, 2008, 08:45 AM
I don't think Sheppard knew McKay had the stunner at that point.

Even if, there wasn't any time to get it.
Also, Sheppard waited long enough before shooting anyway to notice that the Genii were about kill Harmony, so killing them first was the most reasonable path.

Heaven
January 26th, 2008, 08:45 AM
best episode of season 4.

thank you TPTB for reminding me why I used to like this show

Seastallion
January 26th, 2008, 08:49 AM
I give this episode 4/10.

I liked the fact that they included the Genii in an episode again. It was great continuity that Rodney mentioned the alliance with the Genii. The picture at the end of the episode was awesome. I can see it now that Rodney will make a copy of that for Atlantis.

I disliked the fact that only McKay and Sheppard were in this episode. The show does have other characters, doesn't it?

Who were these people? They seem to be trading with Atlantis for some time now. Were these the people from "The Tower"?

Didn't the little girl play Adria on SG-1?


I loved this episode..! It was so funny..! :D
ANYONE would HAVE to love that painting at the end..! HA!!!

As to your above questions, Sierra...

1) Yeah, the show DOES have other characters, but they always have episodes in which other members of the cast get some time off. I'm sure the others appreciate a little time off, considering they have such busy schedules usually.

2) Some planet that Atlantis had been trading with, probably for food and other supplies Atlantis needs but it isn't convenient to send by ship. Their trade relationship probably began before they had regular contact with Earth, and they REALLY needed those supplies.

3) No, they are DEFINITELY not the same people from 'The Tower'. That Royal family had been overthrown. It actually makes sense that there would be more than one 'royal' family on various worlds based on said family having the Ancient gene allowing them to work Ancient technology, which is of course the reason they're considered royalty. I have no doubt that their ancestors intermarried with an Ancient, just as it is very likely that those from Earth who have the Ancient gene are also descended from an intermarriage with an Ancient.

4) Yes, she DID play Adria for a short bit on SG-1.

Just something I wanted to point out here...

A lot of people have seemed suprised about the talk of 'marriage' concerning Harmony. The fact is, that in most 'primitive' cultures marriage at a young age is very common. Not so very long ago girls even in this country were starting their own families at 13. It just sort of suprises me when people get all shocked over it. The age of 18 isn't some magical year 'girls' become 'women', it is just an age that a bunch of politicians picked out that they decided teenagers could finally be considered responsible adults. What a difference 5 short years makes I suppose. Granted times were harsher way back when, and children 'grew up' quicker mainly because they had to. They were expected to act like adults and were treated accordingly. Somehow, those 'kids' managed to rise to the challenge. The point being that 13 year old kids are only 'kids' because people deem them to be so, not because they 'are'. Were young teenagers treated like adults and expected to act accordingly most of them would do so. On the other hand, you have 30 year olds that act as immature as any young teenager. Just in case anyone is wondering, I am NOT being gender specific here. The same is true of both genders in everything I've said here. Young boys in those 'primitive' cultures are often considered 'men' by the age of 13 as well, with all the responsibility that title implies.

:) I'm sure someone will disagree with me here, but I suppose variety is the spice of life. Culture is a funny thing. It works because the people of said culture accept the 'rules' of how things are 'supposed' to work. Well, biology has rules too. The body says 'adult', even if the mind is saying something else. However, the mind is much the result of the 'culture'. Treat a person as a child, and that is what they'll be. Treat them as an adult, and they will rise to that level too.

Hmmm... this could probably be its own thread... :p Anywho...

FireCat
January 26th, 2008, 09:45 AM
While I like the funny babble between characters, tying it together with all that killing was jarring. The older sister wants her baby sis dead, along with her companions, McKay and Harmony throw zingers at each other while Sheppard kills mercenaries. It was odd, and it didn't work.

If the writers want to do comedy, then DO it, like Wormhole Extreme, Citizen Joe, Window of Opportunity. All those were funny with a bit of a tug at the heart strings, but no killing going on. The comedy part was good, but whole episode was just weird, like bits and pieces of different scripts sewn together.

I would have preferred no Genii intrusion and no sisterly betrayal. Just our group taking Harmony to face her future as a leader. Give them trials and obstacles to overcome to prove her worthiness. It could have been humorous, and Harmony could have learned some life lessons along the way. As it stood, at the end she still came across as a spoiled brat ready to beat up anyone who disagreed with her. I saw no growth or maturity in her character.

Let us not revisit her, like we were forced to revisit Lucius. :S

toomanysides
January 26th, 2008, 09:52 AM
No. Just no. Worst episode this season, but it was better than the promos portrayed. Painting was kind of funny, not that much. I don't know it just didn't work for me and was blandly predictable. Very little redeeming factors.

For other fans it may of worked but not for me.

Oh did Sheppard say spid-y senses? hehe... that geek.

Lythisrose
January 26th, 2008, 10:22 AM
I must say, I was unprepared to like this episode as much as I did.
I thought it to be one of the most enjoyable to watch of any of the Stargate franchise I've ever seen, and found myself smiling the whole way through. I am very surprised at myself! But, what the heck, that's entertainment!:)

authorfan
January 26th, 2008, 10:35 AM
Good points, Seastallion, on the marriage age of people in older cultures. Even some modern peoples today have vastly different ideas of when childhood ends and adulthood begins. I think the girl was the perfect spoiled brat and John's behavior was completely appropriate. He mostly didn't have any thing but the most shallow of relationship with her.

Vapor
January 26th, 2008, 10:52 AM
Wow... That episode was incredibly boring to me.

I mean, damn. "Childhood's End" is like a rollercoaster ride compared to this. One of the most boring episodes in the entire series for me.

As much as it was nice to see the actress that played the Orisi (sp?) from SG-1 get another role on the show, since she was so good before, the story was so limited, and I felt like I could predict her whole arc before the opening credits started rolling.

And the team. I mean, I'm not one of those people that feels the need for every single character to be forced into a story, even if they're not all that important to it. But in this case, I was stuck watching something I wasn't at all interested in, and I had "nowhere to go" because we were with Shep and McKay on the alien planet the entire time. No Ronon. No Teyla. Hell, I would have even taken Carter, and I still don't love her as an Atlantis regular. Just... SOMETHING to distract me from the near coma-enducing trek through the forest.

As we stumble over a few conspiracy cliches, we find ourselves stuck with a lot of banter that might otherwise pepper a good episode in interesting ways, but this time, somehow fall really, really flat for me. It just all felt a little too expected and obvious.

Normally, when I watch a new ep, I sit up and am attentive and don't want to miss a detail. By Act 2, I was ready to go to sleep. And I mean that literally. I was turning down my bed during commercial breaks. The only thing that kept me watching was the possibility of missing something important for future episodes.

Imagine my dissapointment when very little seemed to come of this whole little adventure. The mini-drones were cool, and maybe we'll see some of those again, but otherwise, I was bored to tears.

The Genii felt like they were just sort of thrown in there just because. Random, faceless nobodies who show up and die just so we can have some bad guys that don't need too much explanation, and keep the Genii a part of the show somehow.

It's hard to find things I really liked about this one. Um... the painting at the end was cute? Sheppard was hot? Shooting guns is always fun? Egh... I think that's about it.... Oh, and the opening credits! That was good.

On a bright note, next week's ep looks awesome. Can't wait to see Emma Lahana, in a role where I see her face for more than five seconds. Yaaay!

Raven56
January 26th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Well, this one has joined GUP, Duet and Irresistible on my list of least favorites.

On the positive side was:
1. The Rodney&John show - their snark is always delightful. The actors play off of each other beautifully.
2. Rodney following his nose.
3. "Ronon is a better tracker than both of us combined." :)
4. Clueless!Shep's horror when he figured out the girl had a crush on him.
5. The mini-drones were interesting.
6. John seeming to know the girl was trying to play them against each other from the beginning.
7. Rodney getting a chance to save the day physically, instead of just mentally.

On the negative side:
1. Sorry, can't stand shows about bratty kids. Never have, never will. She may have been accurately 13, but that matters not to me ;). I just don't like to watch it.
2. That the girl didn't seem to learn a thing from her trek. If she were real, I would fear for her people. :o She remained an arrogant, spoiled little horror to the very end.

So, even though there was more to like than not like in number, the strength of the negatives put me on edge through the entire episode.

But no matter. Each season has had one episode I didn't like, and so far, this season has been fabulous for me, and I'm looking forward to next week's episode with anticipation.

Kalashnakoff
January 26th, 2008, 11:42 AM
Anyone else think that Sheppard looked a bit like gollum in the painting?

Cap116
January 26th, 2008, 11:49 AM
I thought it was an ok episode. It had some great lines and moments. The picture at the end was by far the best out of it. The part where Sheppard answered the radio reminded me of Star Wars Episode IV, where Han Solo pretended to be a stormtrooper. HAHA.

Does anyone see the mini-drones coming back to play a more pivotal role in the series? An open-ended plothole?

prion
January 26th, 2008, 11:53 AM
Good points, Seastallion, on the marriage age of people in older cultures. Even some modern peoples today have vastly different ideas of when childhood ends and adulthood begins. I think the girl was the perfect spoiled brat and John's behavior was completely appropriate. He mostly didn't have any thing but the most shallow of relationship with her.

Heh, the only relationship between Sheppard and Harmony was in Harmony's fertile little imagination ;)

Oh and yes, different cultures have different ages, etc. for marriage, and in many cultures, the woman or oft time, girl, has no say in the matter.

Callie
January 26th, 2008, 11:59 AM
The spoilers for this episode didn’t fill me with enthusiasm but then I read that Martin Gero wrote it and trusted him to come up with a good one. As always, he didn’t fail me. While this’ll never go down as anyone’s best episode ever, it was a good filler and a lot of fun.

I see several people saying that Rodney was brave and protected Harmony when they came under fire. Actually, he didn’t. Typing the transcript and therefore going through that scene very slowly, it became clear that when he told her later, “I tripped and fell on top of you. It was an accident,” he was telling the truth.

Teaser from the transcript:

As Harmony continues to run down the slope, guns start to fire at her from the ridge. Rodney cowers down beside the crystal tray. As John looks for something to aim at, Rodney turns to run for cover and crashes into Harmony, knocking her to the ground. The impact jolts his rifle out of his hand. He leans across Harmony’s prostrate body to reach for it.

So he didn’t actually try to protect her at all. She misunderstood his actions.

Falcon Horus
January 26th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Okay, after I said to myself that I wasn't going to watch this, cause I really couldn't care less about Sheppard or McKay.... They're just way too overused. I watched anyway.

First impression:

Which fanfic-author managed to get her story with the writers and got them to turn it into an episode?


The good:
* Harmony
* the painting - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/roflma.gif
* Harmony telling Rodney how brave he was protecting her, and Rodney doing everything in his power denying it

The semi-good:
* the little drones which unfortunately reminded me of those little bugs from that one SG1 episode with Lt. Hailey.

The bad:
* Rodney calling dips on the 3rd sister. It confirms that he and Katie are no longer together.
* three children on a hike through the forest
* immature writing by TPTB
* no Ronon or Teyla (anyone saying "yeah, but Rachel probably had to cut down" will get an "and what was the excuse in the previous seasons" in return - ye be warned!)
* the incessent kirking from both Sheppard and McKay (who seems to be on his way to be a carbon-copy of Shep's kirk)

I think I can positively state that this one sinks right down to where Travellers is, but still way above Irresistable (nothing has been worse than that fiasco).

A complete waste of 42 good minutes. A minute of silence for those lost minutes!

AzureSky
January 26th, 2008, 12:54 PM
To quote Jack O'Neill, "What's with the hair?" Am I the only one who thinks Sheppard needs a haircut? As for the episode, my condolences to the actors who had to waste their talents with a forgettable script. Can we resolve to take a break from beautiful women who use their sexuality to short circuit our heroes' brains? It's time to get past that worn-out cliche. Some good banter between Sheppard and McKay. The painting at the end was the highlight.

Jumper_One
January 26th, 2008, 01:09 PM
alright so Harmony isn't exactly THE best ep of s4 but hey, there's always one or two that aren't that appealing to me ie Travelers. the spoilers showed an ep that wouldn't be incredibly interesting except for the McShep show. I didn't expect much even though it was written by Martin Gero

teh first scene is actually quite funny - Shep the hero, Rodney the geek both looking forward to the third sister. McKay 'I try not to break her heart but no promises' LOL. and Shep's 'what kind of rite of passage are we talking about here' is hilarious :P

the roadtrip to the temple in the forest is pretty straight forward imo. Harmony thinks Shep's the hero, McKay's kinda offended and so those two don't really like each other. there's this scene when the Genii says they only want the girl and Rodney would live and he actually considers it. that was definitely fun. the kid was very annoying imo but her attitude changed a little throughout the ep so I didn't really hate her

the beast was a nice little twist. at first I thought maybe they were hallucinating, it obviously became real when those two Genii were killed. yet again there's a mysterious Ancient controlling device which we have to figure out in order to survive. of course somehow Rodney's suddenly the hero and the girl looks up to him. oh the end was quite funny especially the picture
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/414%20Harmony/Harmony1.png

all in all I thought the ep was ok, maybe the worst ep of the second half but there are a LOT of great eps this season so it's a pretty tough competition. anyway it's nothing special but still enjoyable, looking forward to Outcast!

Mitchell82
January 26th, 2008, 01:32 PM
This is the one ep I have not been looking forward to since it was announced. So imagine my surprise when I liked it! It wasn't the darkest or the funniest or the angstiest or the coolest or any other -est, but it was entertaining.
I don't have to imagine as the same happend to me. I was hoping this would be good but wasn't looking forward to it. I was pleasntly surprised.


Nice to see a bit of normalcy. Even though they didn't say where Ronon was (at least he was mentioned!) I imagine the idea of spending time nurturing trade relations sent him searching for just about anything else to do.
Well at least we know he wouldnt go see Walter. I'm surprised he didn't kill him in MC.;)


McKay calling dibs on the sister before even seeing her was a hoot. He was either trying to drown his sorrows in that glass of wine, or he has already moved on from Katie.
He definatly is on the rebound. It was hilarious seeing his face when Harmony apeared.


Harmony was a perfect 13 year-old - self-centered, manipulative, moony-eyed over the cute guy, demanding, a know-it-all. I did have an issue with the way she spoke - seemed a bit overly formal and unnatural. And then she says "the coast is clear". What?
i agree. THe way I looked at it though she was trying to show her authority and she has been forced to grow up before she was ready.


The snark between her and McKay was hilarious. I loved her stealing the PowerBar and blaming it on him and her threats to have him beaten or killed by bounty hunters. I wondered when she asked John why he didn't have Rodney beaten for his incessant talking if John had considered it before.
:lol: I loved that. Classic 13 year old.


Rodney being the tracker by following the scent of food was great as was Sheppard's expression when he finally clued in that the kid had a crush on him.
:indeed:


Really liked seeing military Sheppard when he found a strategic position to shoot the first 3 Genii with one shot. And it was great to see brave Rodney in action. I really liked that he didn't hesitate for an instant before shielding Harmony from the shooting.
That was great. He didn't think about his life at all only Harmony's. Very brave. THen Harmony snaping at John and praising Rodney was sweet!.


It was easy to pick which sister was the bad one, but I like that it wasn't played up as a big mystery.
Yeah it was. Right at the start her attitude at the start was a dead giveaway.

And I thought the mini-drone idea was a cool concept for "the beast". Drone research.... Now that Rodney is a hero of the queen I guess he'll get to spend lots of time digging through the ruins.
Great way to get what he wants eh? I wonder if they are engaged now and when she comes of age gets to pick him as her prince!;)


Speaking of which - the painting!!! LOVED it. Totally seen through a teenage girl's eyes. She stands bravely as hero Rodney defends her and usurper John hides. I'm sure that what she thinks she saw anyway. I so hope Rodney had a camera with him. I'd love to see that pop up as someone's screensaver in a future ep.
That was definatly one of the many highlights. THis ep while not BAMSR or SoW was still a very fun episode.

Mitchell82
January 26th, 2008, 01:33 PM
One of the worst episodes ever IMO, second possibly only to Tabula Rasa.
The funny portrait in the end was a laugh, but didn't save the episode.
I saw the twist of Harmony dropping John and adoring Rodney coming from like 20 minutes away.
All three sisters were *****es, one arrogant, one manipulative and Harmony was both. At least she is the most likely to grow out of it.
The first episode that I almost turned off after 10 minutes.

Tabula Rasa was bad? Not to me. The only weak ep this season so far is Travelers.

jelgate
January 26th, 2008, 01:34 PM
A complete waste of 42 good minutes. A minute of silence for those lost minutes!Do I have be silent for 42 minutes straight or can I do it in incruments. It was slightly better than Travelers but still a terrible episode.

Reiko
January 26th, 2008, 01:44 PM
This episode was most pleasantly surprised me. At first I thought it would be the Tower Part II, or a pure McShep episode, but my fears were quickly relieved. It wasn't the best episode ever, but it was a light-hearted filler, that, albeit some irritating bits, kept me entertained through. It was a nice break, especially from how stressful I am awaited the season five cast list. This is probably one of my favourites in this lackluster season. I give it an 8.5/10. And so I loved it, and no one can change my opinion on this one. :D



Jodelle was just awesome. The kid has talent! And Joe and David were also perfect. The Rodney-John friendship banter is as it should be... teasing!
I was reluctant at first about the plot but it turned out great. I loved the quarels between Harmony and Rodney, I find it funny they kept comparing their attitudes. I guess Harmony brings the most childish side of Rodney out.
Harmony proposing to John was cute! Disturbing, but cute. John was so uncomfortable!! John wanting to investigate the best to which Rodney protests /squeals... it was such a girly sound! (I guess this is what Jodelle meant by David's funny voices) Harmony asking love advice to Rodney. ahahahahah .....ahahahah


I taught 13 year old girls for a very long time, and believe me when I tell you, Harmony was the quintessential 13 year old girl made even more acerbic by her royal blood. Perfect characterization and admirable acting by Jodelle. That young lady has a bright future. JF and DH as always are best when acting against each other. They just work like a fine oiled machine. More more more please. But put a kid into the mix and the talent increases exponentially. Both their responses to Harmony were perfect. Shep just never sees it coming, does he?


Well, seeing as I was expecting this to be beyond aweful (kids, medieval style princesses around Sheppard) I was more than pleasantly surprised. True, it did have cringe-worthy moments, they were far fewer in quantity than I was predicted, and balanced by some proper LOL moments which I feared would be thin on the ground. It won't be one of the best episodes ever - but as mid-season light filler, it entertained and succeeded. 6/10, put up to 7/10 as I was expecting dross, so t'was a nice surprise.


Also, if you want to think a little deeper about this episode - the child was an excellent example of how we should not judge books by their cover...both in how she eventually showed a softer side of herself, and in how she looked at the two men. At first, she was taken (perhaps) by John's looks, and his position. But she was able to see that he can be a real jerk, too. Rodney - perhaps also based on looks and overall whininess - became her target. But then she saw his dedication to his work, and his willingness to put his life on the line - and - well...she was impressed. Heck, I think even I was impressed!

Agreed, the Rodney-Harmony interaction was excellent, and Joe, Jodelle and David all shined in this one. The Harmony-John banter was played perfectly, unlike the revolting crap with the heiress in The Tower. I love Rodney and the chicken, and Rodney and his obsession with food. Made me grin everytime Harmony compared Rodney as being very brat-like. :mckay: -passes greenies-



The love sick puppy Harmony towards John was annoying. I guess the writers love John as Kirk. Speaking of Kirk, Flora using her charms on John was plain boring, my reaction is pretty much Rodney's facial expression.

The love-sick puppy didn't really annoy me, it wasn't exactly done in excess and the shoving-in-my-face was kept to the bare minimum. And it was one-sided. But when it turns around, it proves once again that Rodney is great with the kids. But I'm getting tired of John-Kirking in general. My reaction was the same as Rodney's as well.



The so-called "kirking" here was not offensive in the least. The only time I have really been bothered by this was way back in The Tower. I think the fan reaction has been vastly over the top ever since. After all, he if free to date whomever he pleases, right?

Ditto - the John/Harmony kirking was not real kirking at all. It was completely one-sided, cute, not over-the-top too often, and the tables were turned at the end. There was absolutely nothing real sexual about it IMHO. The Tower also bother me, the whole fiasco with the tinny-voiced blonde was a mess altogether and I will always skip over those scenes in that episode. Harmony was everything The Tower was not.


What an utterly delightful episode. Thank you writers for giving me something to enjoy once again. I had almost given up hope. We laughed, we yelled things at the screen, and we applauded at the end. After all the drama of this season, the dark sets and the soap opera angst, this was a breath of fresh air. I don't care how cliched it was or how predictable. I just enjoyed seeing my boys off on an adventure again, kicking butt, taking names and snarking at each other. Just like the good 'ol days of season one.

^ Pretty much relects my experience. I loved the first three seasons and the quality of those was far greater than the pile of poo that has been season four. It was good for being a John-Rodney apisode, though I would like to see some of our other cast members. (More Ronon and Teyla hopefully, as well as Carson and Elizabeth). Same here, I don't care however cliched and predictable it was. It was a delight that took me back to the good 'ol days. And maybe for season five we'll be halfway there again. (Okay, I'm being hopeful, which is not like me. Ohwell.)


I must say, I was unprepared to like this episode as much as I did.
I thought it to be one of the most enjoyable to watch of any of the Stargate franchise I've ever seen, and found myself smiling the whole way through. I am very surprised at myself! But, what the heck, that's entertainment!:)

This was such an enjoyable episode! I think as the season winds down with some (promised) intensity, we will look back at Harmony as the refreshing highlight of the season. Was it a bit of fluff? Yeah, sure.

I really needed some fluff, and this sure gave me it. I've been stressed about this season, and Harmony was my little light. Hopefully Outcast, Kindreds and the finale will deliver - I'm all looking forward to these intense episodes, and they'll mostly decide if I hang on to the show.


A lot of people have seemed suprised about the talk of 'marriage' concerning Harmony. The fact is, that in most 'primitive' cultures marriage at a young age is very common. Not so very long ago girls even in this country were starting their own families at 13. It just sort of suprises me when people get all shocked over it. The age of 18 isn't some magical year 'girls' become 'women', it is just an age that a bunch of politicians picked out. [...]Culture is a funny thing. It works because the people of said culture accept the 'rules' of how things are 'supposed' to work. Well, biology has rules too. The body says 'adult', even if the mind is saying something else. However, the mind is much the result of the 'culture'. Treat a person as a child, and that is what they'll be. Treat them as an adult, and they will rise to that level too.


Nice evaluation there, you get a greenie for the lovely explanation =]

space lagged
January 26th, 2008, 01:45 PM
The spoilers for this episode didn’t fill me with enthusiasm but then I read that Martin Gero wrote it and trusted him to come up with a good one. As always, he didn’t fail me. While this’ll never go down as anyone’s best episode ever, it was a good filler and a lot of fun.

I see several people saying that Rodney was brave and protected Harmony when they came under fire. Actually, he didn’t. Typing the transcript and therefore going through that scene very slowly, it became clear that when he told her later, “I tripped and fell on top of you. It was an accident,” he was telling the truth.

Teaser from the transcript:

As Harmony continues to run down the slope, guns start to fire at her from the ridge. Rodney cowers down beside the crystal tray. As John looks for something to aim at, Rodney turns to run for cover and crashes into Harmony, knocking her to the ground. The impact jolts his rifle out of his hand. He leans across Harmony’s prostrate body to reach for it.

So he didn’t actually try to protect her at all. She misunderstood his actions.


:D Hahaha! Typical Rodney.


=============

As for the ep. …didn't enjoy it as much as I would have liked, mainly because I find eps without the entire team boring. Their interaction is what makes the show for me.
So the lack of Ronon and Teyla being around ( and yes I understand why Rachel/Teyla wasn’t involved--still doesn’t change the fact if any of them are not involved to some extent my interest fades), along with an obnoxious brat kid added on top made it an almost intolerable sit down. She was just way too overwhelming…couldn’t take it after the first few minutes. Anyway, as much as I wanted to end up liking her in the end, after her journey was over I just couldn’t stomach her any longer.:S
In spite of, Harmony, half the team being missing, and the boring story,I decided to see it through. Thank god I did. If I’d of given in and tuned out, I wouldn’t have caught some of what I consider the best parts:

-Rodney getting busted by Shep with the empty wrapper

-:sheppard:’s “It’s okay sweety, sometimes he makes me cry too.” Loved the delivery.

-:sheppard: on the radio with the Genii. LOL. Classic John

-the mini-drones

-And of course that painting and Sheps reaction to it. Hahar. A work of art it was. It got a hardy laugh outta me and I have to say this is the first time I’ve really ever cracked up at anything intended to be funny on Atlantis. So kudos to whose ever idea it was.

In the end a so-soish ep…definitely (I know for me) NOT worth another watch.
---------------------------
Despite what it looks to be a Rodney and Teyla-less ep., I’m looking forward to next week’s Outcast…far more interesting looking an ep. than this one, so shouldn’t disappoint. Well, one never knows, so here’s too hoping it doesn’t.

Falcon Horus
January 26th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Do I have be silent for 42 minutes straight or can I do it in incruments.

One minute should be fine. That leaves 41 minutes to chatter away. :)

AutumnDream
January 26th, 2008, 02:25 PM
That was maybe the worst episode of Atlantis ever. Jesus. The last scene was just so bad, I felt embarrassed watching it even in front of my cat. And the unsettling pedophilia vibes going on... man. Another fine example of Sheppard and McKay as splendid rag dolls flailing about helplessly in the black sea of bad storytelling.

Falcon Horus
January 26th, 2008, 02:31 PM
And the unsettling pedophilia vibes going on... man.

Well, I have to admit that alarm-bells were going off in my head... But it didn't spread any further in my mind than those bells, and that they were treading on seriously dangerous grounds. One wrong move, or word and it would have been Lucius and his 6 wifes all over again.

randy23
January 26th, 2008, 03:27 PM
While I like the funny babble between characters, tying it together with all that killing was jarring. The older sister wants her baby sis dead, along with her companions, McKay and Harmony throw zingers at each other while Sheppard kills mercenaries. It was odd, and it didn't work.

If the writers want to do comedy, then DO it, like Wormhole Extreme, Citizen Joe, Window of Opportunity. All those were funny with a bit of a tug at the heart strings, but no killing going on. The comedy part was good, but whole episode was just weird, like bits and pieces of different scripts sewn together.

I would have preferred no Genii intrusion and no sisterly betrayal. Just our group taking Harmony to face her future as a leader. Give them trials and obstacles to overcome to prove her worthiness. It could have been humorous, and Harmony could have learned some life lessons along the way. As it stood, at the end she still came across as a spoiled brat ready to beat up anyone who disagreed with her. I saw no growth or maturity in her character.

Let us not revisit her, like we were forced to revisit Lucius. :S

Well, you're overlooking the writer's intention here. Sometimes episodes cannot always be on the extremes, simply funny or simply serious. They have to find the grey area at times. The Atlantis team, in this case Sheppard and Rodney, were put in situations where the underlying feel was: "kill or be killed". With that in mind I think the characters have grown accustomed to the sense of danger since their arrival to the Pegasus galaxy - [so] it's not too surprising to see banter while gunning down enemies. I liked the fact they are still some defected Geni mercenaries around, making trouble for the Atlantis team however directly or indirectly they meet.

I really enjoyed the episode and pleasantly surprised how well it turned out considering my preconceived notion about it being boring. The dialogue is what really made it great to watch, especially the actor who played the young queen; she did a fantastic job in the role, really believable You can't change a 13 year old in one day, but I did see some signs of maturity from her. I hope the writers revisit the character obviously not this season or even the next but maybe somewhere down the line.

Vorash
January 26th, 2008, 03:43 PM
OMG i thought this ep was going 2 be a bad one but it was really good really funny. Love the Mckay shep snark the none beliveing over who eat the power bar.

Rodney is still calling sheappard John omg wonderful.
Love the painting at the end Mckay the hero shepard being a coward, not the best ep ever but over all i loved it

JackHarkness_Hot
January 26th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Medieval "Princesses", courage, bravery and... little teenage girl. Ahh.. weirdness at its finest. I enjoyed this episode for its humour factor which I must merit on. McKay calling on dibs on the third sister.. funny yet kinda gross unless you're a pedo... anyway. It was nice to see the Genii people again.

I love how the women totally used Sheppard and McKay, some men.. such weaklings, lol The repore between McKay and the teenage-Queen-to-be, Harmony was annoying in a funny way. Girl demanding "attention", just like every 13 year old... god, don't you just hate them though McKay could have been more "diplomatic".

The Ancient tech, the jewellery and the mini-drones, fantastic scene! Lots of flashy lights, hehehe and the final portrait featuring Harmony while McKay firing his P90 while Sheppard was painted to be hiding behind Harmony was hilarious!

8.5/10

Raven56
January 26th, 2008, 04:54 PM
McKay calling on dibs on the third sister.. funny yet kinda gross unless you're a pedo...

At the time he called dibs, neither of them knew the age of the sister, and if you look at their faces when they'yre introduced to her, you can see the 'ewww' expression there, too. :)
I thought their back-pedaling the moment they saw her was rather amusing.

prion
January 26th, 2008, 05:01 PM
At the time he called dibs, neither of them knew the age of the sister, and if you look at their faces when they'yre introduced to her, you can see the 'ewww' expression there, too. :)
I thought their back-pedaling the moment they saw her was rather amusing.

Oh yeah, you could see the guys were waiting for some definitely over the age of 18 beautiful babe to show up, not a 13 year old with a bigger ego than McKay's ;)

Raven56
January 26th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Oh yeah, you could see the guys were waiting for some definitely over the age of 18 beautiful babe to show up, not a 13 year old with a bigger ego than McKay's ;)
You got it there! IMO she was a little horror :D

methosivanhoe
January 26th, 2008, 06:13 PM
she was funny...

i loved it, a real lighthearted episode to cheer everyone up :D

M

prion
January 26th, 2008, 06:21 PM
You got it there! IMO she was a little horror :D

Coudln't blame Rodney for wanting to stun her ;)

Jumper_One
January 26th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Coudln't blame Rodney for wanting to stun her ;)

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/414%20Harmony/Harmony15.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/414%20Harmony/Harmony13.png

jelgate
January 26th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Coudln't blame Rodney for wanting to stun her ;)I wanted to shoot her with a P-90.

methosivanhoe
January 26th, 2008, 06:35 PM
hold on a sec...

that last screencap reminded me, isn't she the same girl that played the child "Lana Lang" in the pilot of Smallville?

M

Jumper_One
January 26th, 2008, 06:37 PM
hold on a sec...

that last screencap reminded me, isn't she the same girl that played the child "Lana Lang" in the pilot of Smallville?

M

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0272706/

SG13-NightOps
January 26th, 2008, 06:38 PM
First impression - Meh.

Added nothing to the overall story (yet, anyway) - and Quarantine just did that, a whole lot better too.

Was Harmony the last open hole that they ended up filling? It sure felt that way. I cant believe that I still have to wait through yet another filler ep for Trio, Midway and Kindred.

Hopefully it will be a good one like Millers Crossing and Quarantine, but given that Kari is in it, I wont hold my breath.

Wake me up when Teal'c gets here.

methosivanhoe
January 26th, 2008, 06:39 PM
huh... so she was in Smallville... just not who i thought she was...

"Smallville" .... Emily Eve Dinsmore (1 episode, 2003)

M

Mitchell82
January 26th, 2008, 06:54 PM
That was maybe the worst episode of Atlantis ever. Jesus. The last scene was just so bad, I felt embarrassed watching it even in front of my cat. And the unsettling pedophilia vibes going on... man. Another fine example of Sheppard and McKay as splendid rag dolls flailing about helplessly in the black sea of bad storytelling.

WHAT? There was not even the hint of pedophilia at all.

Mitchell82
January 26th, 2008, 06:56 PM
huh... so she was in Smallville... just not who i thought she was...

"Smallville" .... Emily Eve Dinsmore (1 episode, 2003)

M

Not to mention little Adria.

PG15
January 26th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Forgive me, oh heavenly Thor, for I have sinned: I actually thought Martin Gero is capable of writing a bad episode (besides Childhood's End, natch). I shall punish myself now, by watching Childhood's End. Natch.

Ok, I admit it. I was deathly afraid that this episode would suck (i.e. I would have to rate it a 7...OR LESS!), but while it was a tad slow in certain places, and as usual I heavily disliked the stereotypical princesses, the character interactions between the trio was very well done, both in the acting and the writing departments!

The thing I've figured out about Martin Gero's episodes is that, they seem to be either 1). REALLY BIG, or 2). Very small. Now, we know how BIG his episodes can be, but think about the none-premier/finale ones. They're typically built on a very simple plotline, but expanded out over an episode thanks to great dialogue and character interactions. Duet was carried by all the McKay/Cadman shenanigans; Grace Under Pressure was basically McKay ranting to himself (and then later Imaginary!Carter) for an hour; McKay and Mrs. Miller was practically BUILT on the character play between Jeannie and Rodney; Sunday was an anything-goes character extravaganza with a simple bomb-plot; while Trio...

involves 3 people trying to get out of a hole in the ground, apparently

Harmony follows the same kind of structure. A very simple quest, in this case, expanded out to fill 43 minutes with great interactions. Really, to fully express how hilarious every scene was, I'd just show you the transcript. The dialogue in this episode between Shep and McKay was some of the best banter they've ever done. Sure, we've had greats in the past, but never in this much quantity. I was laughing out loud at least once a minute. And you know what? It was all in character. Sheppard was very much focused on the mission, but obviously he can't let Rodney get away with the stuff he's saying without adding a bit of subtle prodding. I also enjoyed all the (again, subtle) facial movements that Joe Flanigan excels at. Meanwhile, McKay complaints as much as he usually does, and...well, just being McKay is enough to make it funny. He wasn't too cowardice, nor was he anything BUT the McKay we all love. The interplay between these two is pretty much now an art form. They're so good and familiar with it.

Heh, it actually felt like they were holding back on the banter throughout the Season, so as to WOW us with it with this episode. Well, it worked for me. :D

I gotta talk about Jodelle Ferland. I really don't like child actors because, frankly, they suck. Nothing against them, but I don't think they've gotten the hormone shots needed to express any deep emotions. However, Jodelle was awesome in this episode. There was a tiny handful of line deliveries that was a bit awkward, but otherwise, she was excellent. Her attitude towards McKay was hilarious, while her crush on John Sheppard was appropriatedly cute and creepy. I loved the scene where she "cried" while made a "cut-throat" motion behind Shep's back. The girl can act!!

Oh God, and that painting. I wants it. I wants it NOW.

Overall, a very enjoyable episode, and very repeatable. I know it's not been a very long review, but this episode really didn't have many elements to go over. The thing is, as a typical Martin Gero standalone, Harmony thrived on character interactions and dialogue, both of which were truly excellent.

Score: 8.5/10

Mitchell82
January 26th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Forgive me, oh heavenly Thor, for I have sinned: I actually thought Martin Gero is capable of writing a bad episode (besides Childhood's End, natch). I shall punish myself now, by watching Childhood's End. Natch.
That wasnt the best ep I agree but I actually liked it.


Ok, I admit it. I was deathly afraid that this episode would suck (i.e. I would have to rate it a 7...OR LESS!), but while it was a tad slow in certain place, and as usual I heavily disliked the stereotypical princesses, the character interactions between the trio was very well done, both in the acting and the writing departments!
Same here. I was very worried that would be the case but was glad I was wrong.


The thing I've figured out about Martin Gero's episodes is that, they seem to be either 1). REALLY BIG, or 2). Very small. Now, we know how BIG his episodes can be, but think about the none-premier/finale ones. They're typically built on a very simple plotline, but expanded out over an episode thanks to great dialogue and character interactions. Duet was carried by all the McKay/Cadman shenanigans; Grace Under Pressure was basically McKay ranting to himself (and then later Imaginary!Carter) for an hour; McKay and Mrs. Miller was practically BUILT on the character play between Jeannie and Rodney; Sunday was an anything-goes character extravaganza with a simple bomb-plot; while Trio...

involves 3 people trying to get out of a hole in the ground, apparently
All of those are great examples of his best work and despite the simple plot in Trio I'm sure it will be great.


Harmony follows the same kind of structure. A very simple quest, in this case, expanded out to fill 43 minutes with great interactions. Really, to fully express how hilarious every scene was, I'd just show you the transcript. The dialogue in this episode between Shep and McKay was some of the best banter they've ever done. Sure, we've had greats in the past, but never in this much quantity. I was laughing out loud at least once a minute. And you know what? It was all in character. Sheppard was very much focused on the mission, but obviously he can't let Rodney get away with the stuff he's saying without adding a bit of subtle prodding. Meanwhile, McKay complaints as much as he usually does, and...well, just being McKay is enough to make it funny. He wasn't too cowardice, nor was he anything BUT the McKay we all love. The interplay between these two is pretty much now an art form. They're so good and familiar with it.

Heh, it actually felt like they were holding back on the banter throughout the Season, so as to WOW us with it with this episode. Well, it worked for me. :D

I gotta talk about Jodelle Ferland. I really don't like child actors because, frankly, they suck. Nothing against them, but I don't think they've gotten the hormone shots needed to express any deep emotions. However, Jodelle was awesome in this episode. There was a tiny handful of line deliveries that was a bit awkward, but otherwise, she was excellent. Her attitude towards McKay was hilarious, while her crush on John Sheppard was appropriatedly cute and creepy. I loved the scene where she "cried" while made a "cut-throat" motion behind Shep's back. The girl can act!!

Oh God, and that painting. I wants it. I wants it NOW.

Overall, a very enjoyable episode, and very repeatable. I know it's not been a very long review, but this episode really didn't have many elements to go over. The thing is, as a typical Martin Gero standalone, Harmony thrived on character interactions and dialogue, both of which were truly excellent.

Score: 8.5/10

Everyhting went right in this one. Jodelle was great but I knew she would be as she was great in Flesh and Blood.

majorsal
January 26th, 2008, 07:18 PM
i actually liked the ep more than i thought i would. :)

i didn't like harmony much. she was just *so* irritating and bratty. but i know that's the whole point. :p

the part she stole sheppard's food and then blamed it on mckay; not likey. but that was the only part i would have skipped.

my fave parts were all with mckay, just seeing his reactions and david's cuteness.

all in all, it was an enjoyable enough episode.




sally :)

prion
January 26th, 2008, 08:06 PM
FYI

New video at Mallozzi's blog on HARMONY

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee164/BaronDestructo/?action=view&current=BehindtheScenesonHarmony-McKayatthe.flv

It's "McKay" at the ruins; runs about 30 seconds

Killdeer
January 26th, 2008, 08:07 PM
OK, I'm going to post this before reading too many other comments on the episode - I've read a few, but not many yet. I guess I could sum up my reaction to the episode by saying "amused but unimpressed."

Let me start off by saying that I love Shep and McKay, and Shep and McKay episodes. And that I wouldn't be watching this show if it weren't for John and Rodney. In fact, they are the only two characters on this show that are truly indispensible to me, as much as I enjoy most of the others.

That being said, this wasn't really that "awesome", if I may be permitted to use the term (sorry, been watching Chuck :D). There were some great lines, but in a general sense Shep and Rodney didn't have the zing in their banter that they've had in a lot of my favorite episodes. Shep especially seemed rather subdued, even in the banter with Rodney, as if his heart wasn't really in it.

The worst scene was probably the scene where Harmony steals the powerbar and then blames Rodney. Shep hugging her and calling her "sweetie" was completely weird, and I could almost feel Joe Flanigan rolling his eyes in that scene - it was almost as if he was doing it under threat of death. :) Especially since he seemed to make every effort to keep a distance from her for the whole rest of the episode, even before he found out that she was crushing on him.

I think mostly the problem was that there wasn't enough plot to keep me interested, the Shep and Rodney banter was too toned down for me to really love it, and I really hate kid episodes. Jodelle is better than some of the child actors they've had. The kid who played Orlin in The Fourth Horseman was absolutely awful. But I still didn't really like Harmony very much - I hate brats, and I couldn't find it within myself to be amused at most of her antics. All the way through, I was waiting for one of them to really get in her face and give her a good dose of reality, and it never happened. And Rodney being unnerved by her threats was rather bizarre - it would have been better if he'd totally mocked her.

There were some good parts - I had to stop the player because I absolutely howled over Rodney's line about "you're more mature than most of the women he falls for". That was absolutely wonderful. And I liked it that for once Rodney didn't turn out to be the butt of the joke in the end - he finally gets one over on Shep! :D About time. I saw it coming a mile away, but still.

Best part about this episode - Rodney McKay. Most of this was classic Rodney, and I really enjoyed that. In a reversal of what I've been feeling like most of the season, Rodney is the one I connected with for this episode, and Shep was the one that felt off to me.

Overall, an ok episode, and one that might possibly improve with viewing - it's hard to say right now. But it's not one I would show to someone to get them hooked on the Shep/McKay dynamic - I would go to episodes like Underground, The Brotherhood, Echoes, Aurora, Inferno, etc. This episode just wasn't quite as much fun as I've found them to be in the past.

Mekarri
January 26th, 2008, 08:26 PM
I didn't care for this eps. Although a lot of people enjoyed it. It had some good moments. I like john and Rodney but I rather see Ronon, he is so easy on the eyes. The little girl was too annoying. And I don't think she will make a very good queen at this point. Is Carter in charge of SGA? John seem more in charge than Carter.

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 26th, 2008, 09:29 PM
I can honestly say that the last scene was the only good part of the episode. The rest was crap. And thats me being generous.

Killdeer
January 26th, 2008, 09:55 PM
Something just occurred to me. Didn't someone say that Joe Flanigan got sick during the filming of this episode? That would certainly explain why he didn't seem to have his usual energy.

PG15
January 26th, 2008, 09:59 PM
I think he got food poisoning.

Jeffala
January 26th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I wanted to shoot her with a P-90.

Horizon.

ladyjanus
January 26th, 2008, 10:37 PM
After the (mostly) really good episodes we've been getting this season I can find it in me to forgive one less than stellar ep. There were some good moments in this episode, even some LOL bits, and lots of fun back-and-forth with McKay and Shepherd, but I got real tired of the baby brat really, really fast. And I just did'nt understand why the Genii had to be the bad guys...Oh, well....

Best I can compare this ep to is that old quote: It's like sex. When it's good, its really, really good, and when it's not, it's still pretty good.

I'd watch it again. I'd probably enjoy it. I just wouldn't go out of my way for it...

ladyjanus

DigiFluid
January 26th, 2008, 10:55 PM
Oh dear god. I guess it was too much to hope for that the whole back half of season 4 would be good. Three decent eps was all we got, and then...this.

This was just embarassingly bad. Like, 'The Tower', 'Irresistible', or 'Doppelganger' bad. Maybe worse. Holy crap, that's an hour of my life I'll never get back.

morjana
January 27th, 2008, 02:51 AM
In watching "Harmony" again tonight (for the third time) I noticed in the closed captioning that it referred to Rodney's handheld device (the uhm, electronic one), as a PFD.

PFD?

I'm stumped. What's that an acronym for?

Plastic filtering device?

Plasma flow detector?

Phonic Fin Detonator?

Phobic Fig Dryer?

Morjana

rosey_angel
January 27th, 2008, 02:58 AM
i had my rant about the little girl in the thread about her, so with that over with i'll try to talk about the rest of the ep...

...


...


i'm a little annoyed with rodney at the beginning of the ep. he didn't break up with katie at end of last ep, and now he's like "dibs" on the new princess. i'm not sure what kind of man that makes him, and i'm not sure i like him when he's like this.

i'm also quite shocked with all the slashing that gero put in. i'm not a slasher, but i felt this was quite obvious. rodney seemed a little jealous that harmony liked shep, and then john the queen at the end of the ep. i did ROFL at that tho, i was expecting harmony to go off at him, yelling about now he's the queen and should wear the crown. the thought of queen john still makes me smile :)

the pic at the end was funny, but it makes me hate harmony all the more, and i didn't wanna talk about that here, did i?

i wonder who the genii were working for? i know the sister hired them, but are they real genii, or like kolya etc in Irrisponsible?

metabog
January 27th, 2008, 03:16 AM
i had my rant about the little girl in the thread about her, so with that over with i'll try to talk about the rest of the ep...

...


...


i'm a little annoyed with rodney at the beginning of the ep. he didn't break up with katie at end of last ep, and now he's like "dibs" on the new princess. i'm not sure what kind of man that makes him, and i'm not sure i like him when he's like this.

i'm also quite shocked with all the slashing that gero put in. i'm not a slasher, but i felt this was quite obvious. rodney seemed a little jealous that harmony liked shep, and then john the queen at the end of the ep. i did ROFL at that tho, i was expecting harmony to go off at him, yelling about now he's the queen and should wear the crown. the thought of queen john still makes me smile :)

the pic at the end was funny, but it makes me hate harmony all the more, and i didn't wanna talk about that here, did i?

i wonder who the genii were working for? i know the sister hired them, but are they real genii, or like kolya etc in Irrisponsible?

I didn't think there was any slash, rodney was just gelous the little brat didn't like him more. It's not like she was becoming sheppard's girlfriend, jeez. She was like 10.

Tho if I were there I probably would have gone ahead and stunned her, lol.

Bachall
January 27th, 2008, 04:41 AM
closed captioning that it referred to Rodney's handheld device (the uhm, electronic one), as a PFD. PFD? I'm stumped. What's that an acronym for?

Hi, first post here. I believe PFD stands for Plot Forwarding Device. Much shorter than, "Handheld Blinky Beepy Thing That Someone Looks at and Discusses."

Jeyla4ever
January 27th, 2008, 07:14 AM
I can't pinpoint what was not right in this episode. Killdeer brought some good points. Sheppard was off his game. I can't for the life of me see why John would go for a 13 year old rants and whine vs Rodney's. He's used to Rodney. He knows Rodney and Rodney is not known for lying. So, that whole scenario between John and Rodney almost felt like these two were just getting to know each other instead of being together for so long now.

The story I think was a poor story. I didn't care for it and I think something different could have been done. This reminded me too much of the Tower for some odd reason. Maybe it was the setting, I don't know.

I did laugh out loud in the end. The picture frame and the fact that Rodney finally got back at John was worth the lack of excitement for the rest of the episode.

If I"m not mistaken, wasn't this also the episode that Joe Flanigan kept mentioning back and forth as the one that he commented to the writers about in regards to John's actions toward Harmony?

I say, listen to the man, writers...I think Joe Flanigan was right on with this one.

Not the worse episode, had some great lines, like I loved when John mentioned Ronon...he so misses his team!

I missed Ronon and Teyla...episodes without them are clearly not up to Atlantis standards.

blue-skyz
January 27th, 2008, 07:45 AM
I can't for the life of me see why John would go for a 13 year old rants and whine vs Rodney's. He's used to Rodney. He knows Rodney and Rodney is not known for lying. So, that whole scenario between John and Rodney almost felt like these two were just getting to know each other instead of being together for so long now.
I never thought that Sheppard believed Harmony over McKay. What is he going to do? Every parent learns that you have to pick your fights. I would imagine that that is true of leaders, as well. Just because he teases McKay and lets the kid hug him doesn’t mean he believes her. It wasn’t worth pursuing.

I love the line: It’s okay sweety, sometimes he makes me cry too.
That’s pure McKay bait. :P

Killdeer
January 27th, 2008, 07:57 AM
I think Camy's right that the hug scene was the one that JF had his disagreement with the writers/directors about. The "sometimes he makes me cry too" line was hilarious, but the hug just seemed....odd.

Someone commented on my LJ review that David Hewlett did indeed say in one of his Twitter entries that Joe Flanigan came down with food poisoning during the filming of this episode, so....I personally believe that was why Shep felt off to me. I couldn't put my finger on it at first, but I kept thinking about it, and thought...he just seems tired! And then I remembered the getting sick thing. Food poisoning will take a lot out of you (if you haven't had it, take my word for it :D), and I'm impressed that he was only off work for a day. :)

As far as Ronon and Teyla..... they did at least mention Ronon. And I don't know how a mention of Teyla could have been worked in. But Rachel was already off for maternity leave when this episode was filmed, and as for Jason, if I'm not mistaken he wasn't in this episode because he was working with Chris Judge on the sparring scenes for Midway.

Egle01
January 27th, 2008, 08:30 AM
I found it to be quite boring. Just a walk in the forest.
Not pleased.

blue-skyz
January 27th, 2008, 08:42 AM
I think Camy's right that the hug scene was the one that JF had his disagreement with the writers/directors about. The "sometimes he makes me cry too" line was hilarious, but the hug just seemed....odd.
The hug didn’t bother me. It was just part of the gag. It was very The Bad Seed to me, though I don’t remember the first one very well and I never saw the remake. The hug allowed Harmony to make the face at McKay and got some cute expressions and the cry line from JF.

I loved Sheppard’s attitude through the whole episode. He was resigned to taking her and tried to stay very professional and as remote from her as possible. He never got down to her level as McKay did. He treated her as the distasteful child that she was and mugged his way through it.

The exception is the Leadership talk between Sheppard and Harmony, a scene that stands out in my mind, because it says more about Sheppard than Harmony.

S: Nervous about being Queen:
H: No, Why would I be?
S: It’s a lot of responsibility.
H: I know that.
S: You’ve got to put the needs of your people before anything else, including your own.
H: Some of the time, yes.
S: Oh, pretty much all of the time.
….
H: You know much about leadership, John.
S: Well, hard earned lessons along the way.

Raven56
January 27th, 2008, 09:02 AM
After the (mostly) really good episodes we've been getting this season I can find it in me to forgive one less than stellar ep. There were some good moments in this episode, even some LOL bits, and lots of fun back-and-forth with McKay and Shepherd, but I got real tired of the baby brat really, really fast. And I just did'nt understand why the Genii had to be the bad guys...Oh, well....

Best I can compare this ep to is that old quote: It's like sex. When it's good, its really, really good, and when it's not, it's still pretty good.

I'd watch it again. I'd probably enjoy it. I just wouldn't go out of my way for it...

ladyjanus

That's exactly my opinion, too. There's not one episode of SGA that I won't rewatch (even though I may ff through some bits, sometimes ;)), but this one definitely wasn't a highlight. I bolded the bit I particularly agreed with.

Raven56
January 27th, 2008, 09:10 AM
The exception is the Leadership talk between Sheppard and Harmony, a scene that stands out in my mind, because it says more about Sheppard than Harmony.

S: Nervous about being Queen:
H: No, Why would I be?
S: It’s a lot of responsibility.
H: I know that.
S: You’ve got to put the needs of your people before anything else, including your own.
H: Some of the time, yes.
S: Oh, pretty much all of the time.
….
H: You know much about leadership, John.
S: Well, hard earned lessons along the way.
I'd forgotten about that section. I think it was one of the few scenes with the kid in them that I actually liked. (I admit I dislike brats with a passion, so I am definitely NOT unbiased about this episode :o).
And I agree entirely. Even though this episode wasn't a favorite, and was played broadly for the humor, it still managed to squeeze in some character development. Good on ya, MGero!

methosivanhoe
January 27th, 2008, 09:18 AM
And I just did'nt understand why the Genii had to be the bad guys...Oh, well....

I agree with that... i'd much rather it have been the bad guys we saw in the episode with Keller and Teyla where the Athosians went missing (Can't remember the episode name or the name of the bad guys lol)

they would have made more sense as a bad guy... but maybe this is just the beginning of the Genii becoming a greater threat in Pegasus... we don't know...

M

Ebeneezer_Goode
January 27th, 2008, 09:36 AM
ALOT better than I thought it was going to be, no where near as cheesy as I thought it was going to be, and some pretty funny lines too.

xx_luvSheppard_xx
January 27th, 2008, 09:44 AM
I thought this episode really great. Though the kid was such a brat. Sheppard and McKays spat was just really funny. and the painting at the end?

Priceless.

prion
January 27th, 2008, 11:08 AM
I think Camy's right that the hug scene was the one that JF had his disagreement with the writers/directors about. The "sometimes he makes me cry too" line was hilarious, but the hug just seemed....odd.

Someone commented on my LJ review that David Hewlett did indeed say in one of his Twitter entries that Joe Flanigan came down with food poisoning during the filming of this episode, so....I personally believe that was why Shep felt off to me. I couldn't put my finger on it at first, but I kept thinking about it, and thought...he just seems tired! And then I remembered the getting sick thing. Food poisoning will take a lot out of you (if you haven't had it, take my word for it :D), and I'm impressed that he was only off work for a day. :)

As far as Ronon and Teyla..... they did at least mention Ronon. And I don't know how a mention of Teyla could have been worked in. But Rachel was already off for maternity leave when this episode was filmed, and as for Jason, if I'm not mistaken he wasn't in this episode because he was working with Chris Judge on the sparring scenes for Midway.

Yeah, Joe F got food poisoning during the shoot, and Jason was working on another episode (but he was around when EXTRA shot their segment). I hadn't even thought about that when watching the show as I thought Joe did pretty good.

Killdeer
January 27th, 2008, 11:15 AM
Yeah, Joe F got food poisoning during the shoot, and Jason was working on another episode (but he was around when EXTRA shot their segment). I hadn't even thought about that when watching the show as I thought Joe did pretty good.

I'm not saying Joe did a bad job. He just didn't seem to have the energy he usually does, especially when bantering with Rodney.

MechaThor
January 27th, 2008, 11:16 AM
I went into this epsiode worried that it may become the already FANTASTIC series 4 version of "The Tower", However I was wrong. This episode was far from being the newest "Tower", But was indeed a great and very "Atlantis" feeling episode. With great character moments, humour and all the right action!

Well Ok... It may not have been the best episode of Series 4 (Doppilegenger "sp?" is for me) But it was still far from bad!
The forest set, seems to have beenb filmed in a newer location giving it a very "fresh" look, as you could start to tell in SG-1 that alot of the forest planets where the same old trees!

As for the story, it was fun and well scripted. It had me with a smile on my face from the very start, Especailly when Sheppard 1rst started getting hints that the 13 year old had a crush on him! And of course that now CLASSIC painting at the end, I vote that should be used as the DVD cover!

I was a bit sad that the "Beast" was no an actual "BEAST", however Mini-Drones is a cool concept, I would love to see a hand gun fire mini-drones next! or the F-302!
Its a shame Ronan was not here! But the mention was nice, I gess he was shopping with Teyla for baby cloths.

All in all a classic John/Mckay blast, and a nice fun point in this GREAT series!


I'm not saying Joe did a bad job. He just didn't seem to have the energy he usually does, especially when bantering with Rodney.

I think Sheppard had the Genii (is it 1 or 2 I's?) on his mind alot of the time, You could always see Sheppard with one eye scanning the forest for them dirty Brown coats!

Demerzel
January 27th, 2008, 12:15 PM
Anyone noticed that the painting at the end seems to be the same style and all as the painting of McKay at the beginning of The Game? They were probably made by the same artist.

And the more I think about it, the more I hate this episode. Anyone else got mental images of Ronon blasting Harmony's head off with his gun? Now THAT would be priceless.

pittsburghgirl
January 27th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Anyone noticed that the painting at the end seems to be the same style and all as the painting of McKay at the beginning of The Game? They were probably made by the same artist.

And the more I think about it, the more I hate this episode. Anyone else got mental images of Ronon blasting Harmony's head off with his gun? Now THAT would be priceless.
actually I think Ronan would have just tossed the little darling over his shoulder,-swatted her behind and off they would go.

morjana
January 27th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Hi, first post here. I believe PFD stands for Plot Forwarding Device. Much shorter than, "Handheld Blinky Beepy Thing That Someone Looks at and Discusses."

Howdy!

Welcome to GateWorld Forum!

Ah...plot forwarding device! Yes, that makes sense!

Thank you so much...now I can sleep soundly tonight.

LOL!

:)

Morjana

Linzi
January 27th, 2008, 02:49 PM
I loved this episode. Pure entertainment. Extremely funny, yet some poignant moments too.

I adore Sheppard and McKay stories and this, though not particularly dramatic or serious, was lovely. I haven't laughed so much at an episode in a long time. Very, very well written. Some lines were total genius!

Jodelle was wonderful. She played Harmony to perfection.

I thought both JF and DH did wonders here. Their on screen chemistry is a delight for me.

The last scene had me rolling on the floor. Totally, totally awesome! Well done Martin Gero - AGAIN.
9/10.

P-90_177
January 27th, 2008, 03:06 PM
I liked this episode. It wasn't great but it made for an entertaining watch and it made for a good filler episode. I did find Harmony quite grating in the beginning. I mean that's what was intended but she lightend up near the end which is good. In addition I reckon the painting must be one of the gratest endings in stargate ever.

Cautious Explorer
January 27th, 2008, 03:07 PM
What a horrible episode. I think it rivals Missing for worst episode of the season, and given my opinion of season four, that's very, very low.

A princess, an evil/jealous sister and a quest. This belonged on the Disney Channel. I guess it looked funnier on paper (although I can't imagine how) than it turned out in reality.

What happened to McKay? He's so shallow he's forgotten Katie already and is drooling over the "hot" sister. He can't hold his own in an argument with a thirteen-year-old child. Remembering Childhood's End, I was hoping that the one redeeming feature of this episode would be McKay trying to interact with a child. It wasn't the least bit entertaining this time.

The only positives I can think of are the lack of both Carter and Keller.

Killdeer
January 27th, 2008, 03:11 PM
What happened to McKay? He's so shallow he's forgotten Katie already and is drooling over the "hot" sister.

This episode was supposed to be further down in the airing schedule originally - right before Kindred if I'm not mistaken. I don't know why they moved it, but I don't think they were planning to have Rodney moving on so fast when the episode was originally filmed.

Willow'sCat
January 27th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Was it the best episode... No
Was it horrible...No
Yep pretty much sums it up for me; and if this wasn't a McKay & Sheppard ep I would have probably not liked it at all, or not been fussed to watch. Also I take any amount of McKay/Sheppard that I can get.;)

There were some good moments a nice change from last weeks total OOC behaviour for McKay. I also liked that McKay is using Sheppard's first name more, however it is probably time for the other writers (other then Martin) to start to write that into scripts because I seriously think only Martin is doing that at the moment and it stands out so much... seems even weird.:S;)

As for McKay and Katie...? That was pretty much a lame duck relationship anyway :rolleyes: but my take on that; is that this is meant to be set some months down the road (just because this ep followed last weeks doesn't mean it is just one week since they broke up).

Also in Trio *spoilers* we will see McKay trying to lamely flirt with Carter...*groan* so I think it is his way of dealing... as sad as that is. :rolleyes:

prion
January 27th, 2008, 03:54 PM
What happened to McKay? He's so shallow he's forgotten Katie already and is drooling over the "hot" sister. He can't hold his own in an argument with a thirteen-year-old child. Remembering Childhood's End, I was hoping that the one redeeming feature of this episode would be McKay trying to interact with a child. It wasn't the least bit entertaining this time.



McKay forgot about Katie, just like Sheppard seemed to forget he'd been drained dry in "Common Ground" and had no aftereffects (physical or psychological) whatsoever. The Stargates are basically episodic, so you can watch virtually any episode without having to have watched an entire season beforehand (which would be BSG). Unfortunately it also means the characters forget a lot of stuff that happens to them ;)

Actionhank
January 27th, 2008, 04:45 PM
All in all I have to say filler episode. Not much gained on the plot arc after all.
Of course it's always good entertainment - McKay and Sheppard in action. :D

Also you know from start they will get out of it unharmed (whohoho notice the word play ^^) and save the day because they are the heroes of the show + they don't kill a child on screen (glad they don't).

Cheap episode but fun anyway.

Nicksterr
January 27th, 2008, 04:47 PM
christ another filler episode and another! let us be rid of these!

Actionhank
January 27th, 2008, 04:54 PM
christ another filler episode and another! let us be rid of these!
I know what you mean. Besides I don't think we've had much filler episodes this season.

From a budgetary standpoint you must also include some cheaper eps to get along...

From a dramatic standpoint I think It's good to slow down the show sometimes and pick up the pace again later. Already we see on modern American/Canadian TV shows a tendency to very fast episodes in general. I mean quick dialogues, many scenes, much content developement, almost no monologues... Decide for yourself if that's good or bad.

ColCaldwell
January 27th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Pretty good episode which I was surprised. From the previews I thought it as another "The Tower".

Jeyla4ever
January 27th, 2008, 06:01 PM
The hug didn’t bother me. It was just part of the gag. It was very The Bad Seed to me, though I don’t remember the first one very well and I never saw the remake. The hug allowed Harmony to make the face at McKay and got some cute expressions and the cry line from JF.

I loved Sheppard’s attitude through the whole episode. He was resigned to taking her and tried to stay very professional and as remote from her as possible. He never got down to her level as McKay did. He treated her as the distasteful child that she was and mugged his way through it.

The exception is the Leadership talk between Sheppard and Harmony, a scene that stands out in my mind, because it says more about Sheppard than Harmony.

S: Nervous about being Queen:
H: No, Why would I be?
S: It’s a lot of responsibility.
H: I know that.
S: You’ve got to put the needs of your people before anything else, including your own.
H: Some of the time, yes.
S: Oh, pretty much all of the time.
….
H: You know much about leadership, John.
S: Well, hard earned lessons along the way.
See maybe I"m totally off on this one, and that's okay...*wink* but I guess my whole take on this episode was that Rodney understood Harmony better than even Sheppard himself. Sheppard took her as an inexperienced child trying to prove herself and like every other teenager in his world and apparently this one as well, trying too hard to grow up too fast. And that is part of what Harmony was trying to do, but that bratty child attitude of hers, that Rodney understood better than Sheppard and when John didn't think that the little one would escape before their eyes, Rodney asked to stun her because he knew very well what she was capable of. And although to me that didn't seem odd from both characters, I took that hug to be somewhat genuine from John and maybe I missed it but I thought John did in fact believe that Rodney did eat his snack bar instead of Harmony.

Yes, the whole point was to give us that scene with Harmony, but to me, lines like that should also coincide with the characters and that entire scene from the minute that John got back till the hug, was just not John-like to me! But, it was cute!

AGateFan
January 27th, 2008, 06:56 PM
So, I am just getting around to watching Harmony.

My thoughts

I liked the ep well enough. Some good Sheppard and Mckay stuff. Neither character was too annoying and the girl was actually entertaining and the genii not too over the top. The "evil" sister was a bit too obviously the evil sister and I was sort of hoping the "good" sister would actually turn out to be the evil one and was setting Shep and Mckay up.

I am slightly disturbed that Sheppard would shoot 3 members of an allied race without even attempting to get them to surrender or find out what the quarrel is about...I guess SGA still have not leaned the consequences of getting involved in things they dont know about and killing potentially innocent people (soilders who may be doing a legitimate police job). Lucky TPTB made the plot simple enough that all worked out in the end and everything was as it appeared to be. Oh, if you are going to carry a stunner why keep it inaccessible in your backpack? I would think Shep would have that as standard issue (or a ronnan like gun) seeing as how he should have first choice of weapons and having a stun weapon would be extremely useful in situations when you dont know whos telling the truth and need to take them down for further questioning.

Other then our teams willingness to shoot our allies I thought the ep was decent enough. Some good lines (spidy sense) and I liked the painting at the end. Oh BTW Shep and Mckay in fatigues with no leather gets this ep an extra point.

Not sure about Next week ep, it looks like a terminator 2 rip off but Ronan in a T shirt with sleeves is at least an upgrade in some uniforms.

Mack_1
January 27th, 2008, 07:40 PM
mago1978
No question one of the worst episodes of the series and the worst of the season.
Agree


g.o.d
this episode was utter rubbish. Completly uselles and incredibly boring
Agree :jonas13:

Integrabyte
...and I thought it can't get worse. TPTB proves me wrong every time. I stopped watching after 15 minutes...
Agree ony I force my self to watch it to comfim, worse episode ever.:hammondanime03: (don't include it in the DVD's That's and order)

toomanysides
No. Just no. Worst episode this season, but it was better than the promos portrayed. Painting was kind of funny, not that much. I don't know it just didn't work for me and was blandly predictable. Very little redeeming factors.

For other fans it may of worked but not for me.

Oh did Sheppard say spid-y senses? hehe... that geek.
Never see the promos, I just thought it could be a little good. I was wrong:weir40:


Originally Posted by Mathemagicia
One of the worst episodes ever IMO, second possibly only to Tabula Rasa.
The funny portrait in the end was a laugh, but didn't save the episode.
I saw the twist of Harmony dropping John and adoring Rodney coming from like 20 minutes away.
All three sisters were *****es, one arrogant, one manipulative and Harmony was both. At least she is the most likely to grow out of it.
The first episode that I almost turned off after 10 minutes.
I don't know about Tabula Rasa, Travelers was worse.:teyla25:


AutumnDream

That was maybe the worst episode of Atlantis ever. Jesus. The last scene was just so bad, I felt embarrassed watching it even in front of my cat. And the unsettling pedophilia vibes going on... man. Another fine example of Sheppard and McKay as splendid rag dolls flailing about helplessly in the black sea of bad storytelling.

:jack_new_anime06::jack_new_anime06::jack_new_anime06:


The most stupid, boring episode ever make, what were they thinking?? Obviously they weren’t thinking.:mckay:

And Mckay/Sheppard... please:beckett03:

Little girl, she could pass as Mckay's daughter, she was sooooo anoying:teyla30:

smushybird
January 27th, 2008, 08:45 PM
This was a very fun episode.

It kept reminding me of the Road pictures, with Sheppard and McKay on their own trek through the forest, dealing with the natives and the baddies, and trading verbal jabs. Harmony was a little young to be Dorothy Lamour (though she did resemble her a little :D) but I enjoyed the way she played the guys against each other and crushed on both like a true 13-year-old.

The basic plot was too predictable and some of the early dialogue painful, especially with the other princesses (the best actresses in the world couldn't make that stiff and unoriginal dialogue sound real), but I forgave it in light of the entertainment I got from the rest of the ep.

The only thing that I would've liked to see was something a little deeper than the usual banter. Even Bob and Bing always had a couple of sentimental, friendshippy moments in their movies. Sheppard and McKay should, too.

One more thing. Now that the writers have discovered they can produce humorous episodes using the good characters we already have, I hope we'll have no more of that lame Lucius nonsense.

While this ep wasn't quite the quality of the rest of Season 4, I think that, all in all, Season 4 has been almost uniformly excellent.

Willow'sCat
January 27th, 2008, 08:53 PM
This was a very fun episode.

It kept reminding me of the Road pictures, with Sheppard and McKay on their own trek through the forest, dealing with the natives and the baddies, and trading verbal jabs. Harmony was a little young to be Dorothy Lamour (though she did resemble her a little :D) but I enjoyed the way she played the guys against each other and crushed on both like a true 13-year-old.How did I know you would make that comparison? :D



The only thing that I would've liked to see was something a little deeper than the usual banter. Even Bob and Bing always had a couple of sentimental, friendshippy moments in their movies. Sheppard and McKay should, too.
I have to say as something that a lot of people (in fandom) said was going to be nothing but a McKay & Sheppard episode that really for me as a McKay & Sheppard fan, this felt more like a McKay ep with a little bit of Sheppard thrown in *which ain't a bad thing* but not what I thought was on the label. :cool: I await 'their' episode this season still. :S:cool:

Killdeer
January 27th, 2008, 09:00 PM
I have to say as something that a lot of people (in fandom) said was going to be nothing but a McKay & Sheppard episode that really for me as a McKay & Sheppard fan, this felt more like a McKay ep with a little bit of Sheppard thrown in *which ain't a bad thing* but not what I thought was on the label. :cool: I await 'their' episode this season still. :S:cool:

I'd agree with that assessment. It did feel like Sheppard was more in the background on this one. Unfortunately I don't see another chance coming our way for this season anyway.

blue-skyz
January 27th, 2008, 09:11 PM
See maybe I"m totally off on this one, and that's okay...*wink* but I guess my whole take on this episode was that Rodney understood Harmony better than even Sheppard himself.
I never thought about either one of them understanding her or even trying to understand her. She was a project neither of them wanted. They were trying to get it over and done with as expeditiously as possible. Sheppard mostly tried to stay focused on the journey and later on keeping them safe. He had a huge responsibility once he realized how vastly outnumbered they were. McKay, on the other hand, is stuck with Harmony and she won’t let him ignore her. So, yes, I agree, McKay knew Harmony a lot better that Sheppard did.

And that is part of what Harmony was trying to do, but that bratty child attitude of hers, that Rodney understood better than Sheppard and when John didn't think that the little one would escape before their eyes, Rodney asked to stun her because he knew very well what she was capable of.
Sheppard did think about stunning her (he looked regretful to me), and I admit McKay was right, she would have been less trouble being carried through the woods like a sack of potatoes, but Sheppard couldn’t stun a 13 year old or a princess that was his responsibility.

And although to me that didn't seem odd from both characters, I took that hug to be somewhat genuine from John and maybe I missed it but I thought John did in fact believe that Rodney did eat his snack bar instead of Harmony.
I still don’t buy that Sheppard would take the kid’s word over McKay’s. If McKay had eaten it, he would have just said something like ‘you snooze, you loose,’ and looked like he had just swallowed a canary. He wouldn’t have blamed the kid. Sheppard didn’t have any reasonable options under the circumstances, except try to keep the peace and keep moving. I think Sheppard’s expressions during the hug and the line ‘It’s okay sweety, sometimes he makes me cry too,’ tell a tale of how ridiculous he finds the situation. He seems to be both needling McKay and enduring a distasteful hug.

Yes, the whole point was to give us that scene with Harmony, but to me, lines like that should also coincide with the characters and that entire scene from the minute that John got back till the hug, was just not John-like to me! But, it was cute!
Yes, I think the point was to set up a The Bad Seed scene. I don’t remember well, but I think the evil kid has to have two people to play off against each other to gain sympathy from one of them. I don’t know about ‘cute,’ but there were some interesting expressions from all three. And my guess is, Sheppard didn’t buy it for a second. ;)

All that made me think about McKay’s role here.
Harmony is an example of how far McKay has come (now that they are writing him as more grown up.) He competes with Harmony here on her level as the old McKay, but he walks beside Sheppard as a competent and trusted sidekick/comrade/friend. Sheppard is still the leader and strategist. He is still the protector of both McKay and Harmony. But McKay, here, despite all the frivolousness of the script, is Sheppard’s partner and equal. They are in this together. McKay accepts the mission, follows orders without much fuss (didn’t say he doesn’t question them), uses common sense, and competently manages his weapons. To me, this is the way I want the see Sheppard and McKay, old friends, comfortable and trusting around each other, but still smart asses and ready to needle each other mercilessly when the opportunity arises. Not exactly what happens here, but they do function as a unit, a snarky unit, but a functional one. :P;)

Willow'sCat
January 27th, 2008, 09:31 PM
I'd agree with that assessment. It did feel like Sheppard was more in the background on this one. Unfortunately I don't see another chance coming our way for this season anyway.I know, so much could be McKay and Sheppard worthy but so much is turning into Sheppard and Teyla and Ronon...and Rodney MIA.

Or Sheppard and Ronon... Teyla off being pregnant and Rodney MIA. :P

I think this is tptb response to the complaints from some that SGA was too much the McKay & Sheppard show. :rolleyes:

Killdeer
January 27th, 2008, 09:37 PM
I know, so much could be McKay and Sheppard worthy but so much is turning into Sheppard and Teyla and Ronon...and Rodney MIA.

Yeah. Rodney's still around, but he's not with his team that much, and that's frustrating.

smushybird
January 27th, 2008, 10:11 PM
How did I know you would make that comparison? :D

I couldn't help it. They were just so Hope & Crosby...right down to drooling over the princesses, and McKay's "dibs". It reminded me of Hope's line after they were asked if they always fight over girls... "What else can we fight over? We never have any money." :D



I have to say as something that a lot of people (in fandom) said was going to be nothing but a McKay & Sheppard episode that really for me as a McKay & Sheppard fan, this felt more like a McKay ep with a little bit of Sheppard thrown in *which ain't a bad thing* but not what I thought was on the label. :cool: I await 'their' episode this season still. :S:cool:

I wanted more too (I usually do :D) I like best the McKay/Sheppard eps which have both humor and angst. I want to see all sides of their relationship explored, with equal respect and consideration given to them. They're such great characters, I don't want to see their potential wasted. Their friendship is unique and interesting.

freetoken
January 28th, 2008, 02:01 AM
Well, I don't know where to begin... let's just say I haven't reacted too positively to any episode since Miller's Crossing (which had its problems but also provided for a level of complexity and character development that was engaging.)

In particular, 'Harmony' could best be described as a hackneyed story poorly executed. While episodes 410-413 all tried to put too much into 42 minutes of a television show, 414 puts too little.

All three sisters were not only overused stereotypes, but unconvincingly acted with stilted dialogs. These aren't real people, even in a galaxy far away. Also, why or why do these folks live in what looks like an Elizabethan village and speak a stilted form of English, with 20th century words but 18th century cadence?

And the resolution of the conflict... so predictable. Dr. McKay once again figures out how to work a piece of Ancient equipment, just in time.

After the first 9 episodes of this season I felt very positive about the way Atlantis was heading... but now it seems like a rerun of canned story lines and concepts.

Dusk
January 28th, 2008, 02:32 AM
What a pissy episode! Shocking!! And I thought the Lucius days were over! I guess every season has it's low, and 'Harmony' was off the charts.

A drone testing ground in a forest? I highly doubt such a useless environment would serve as a weapons testing area. A desert perhaps, or even an open plain.

Also, enough with the Medieval communities already.

I've seen much better eps on a low budget before, but this is just damn lame.

Shame shame shame.

igger
January 28th, 2008, 04:41 AM
considering there hasn't been many weak episodes this season, I'll let them off with this one & Missing which is the only other one not upto scratch for me . The banter between all three characters just didn't do it for me, especially McKay & Shep who usually spark well of each other.

Why couldn't Ronon have being there, I know Shep said he missed Ronon but didn't even give an explanation for his abscense, it would have made the painting at the end even better.

5/10

freetoken
January 28th, 2008, 07:46 AM
Why couldn't Ronon have being there, I know Shep said he missed Ronon but didn't even give an explanation for his abscense, it would have made the painting at the end even better.

5/10

Yes, this should have been a Ronon/Teyla episode. Teyla with a mother-to-be sensibility, and Ronon exposing more of his paternal, touchy-feely side (in trying to protect the girl he could have had flashbacks to his own culture.) It would have been a good episode for both, to show that they aren't robots but miss their own families.

Also, the middle sister as evil sister - it was way too obvious. Why not throw us a curve ball and have say both sisters planning the coup - heck, why not the whole village!

Generally speaking, SGA stories of late have woefully lacked subtlety and indeterminacy.

Ruffles
January 28th, 2008, 08:27 AM
I still don’t buy that Sheppard would take the kid’s word over McKay’s. If McKay had eaten it, he would have just said something like ‘you snooze, you loose,’ and looked like he had just swallowed a canary. He wouldn’t have blamed the kid. Sheppard didn’t have any reasonable options under the circumstances, except try to keep the peace and keep moving. I think Sheppard’s expressions during the hug and the line ‘It’s okay sweety, sometimes he makes me cry too,’ tell a tale of how ridiculous he finds the situation. He seems to be both needling McKay and enduring a distasteful hug.

I agree. I don't think Shep really thought McKay ate the PowerBar either. I think he was just playing along to appease her and irritate McKay. She thinks she gets her way and the trip continues. He knows Rodney well enough to see the truth.


All that made me think about McKay’s role here.
Harmony is an example of how far McKay has come (now that they are writing him as more grown up.) He competes with Harmony here on her level as the old McKay, but he walks beside Sheppard as a competent and trusted sidekick/comrade/friend. Sheppard is still the leader and strategist. He is still the protector of both McKay and Harmony. But McKay, here, despite all the frivolousness of the script, is Sheppard’s partner and equal. They are in this together. McKay accepts the mission, follows orders without much fuss (didn’t say he doesn’t question them), uses common sense, and competently manages his weapons. To me, this is the way I want the see Sheppard and McKay, old friends, comfortable and trusting around each other, but still smart asses and ready to needle each other mercilessly when the opportunity arises. Not exactly what happens here, but they do function as a unit, a snarky unit, but a functional one. :P;)

Agreeing again. I particularly liked McKay's genuine fear when Shep went missing for a moment. He seemed more concerned about John (calling him "John" over the radio) than his own safety. He stood between Harmony and the Genii and neither said nor did anything to provoke them, choosing instead to lower his weapon and stall for time. I also liked that Sheppard trusted Rodney's skills enough to leave him to protect Harmony while he scouted the Genii locations. In times past, Rodney was the one who needed protection.

solarscreen
January 28th, 2008, 08:44 AM
My 2 cents:

Overall a lighthearted, fun episode that provided us with a little bit of reality and detail easily missed by hardliners who are eager to move their preferred storyline along without regard for anyone else's preferences.

Cliched? Of course.
Stereotypical? Obviously.
Silly? Why not.
Fun? shamefacedly so.

Come on, we're not trying to win a film festival award here.

I won't rehash a lot of what has been discussed but here are a few points I took from the ep:

1. I don't think you have to worry so much about the 13 y/o and her rule. There is obviously a ruling counsel that selected her from the 3 sisters and for good reason. There was something going on and by playing the youngest sister off the older two, their problem was solved by help from outside. I think the oldest sister suspected something and they decided Atlantis help would be a good way to work it out.

2. Mini-drones. This is an interesting addition to say the least and could be very helpful in the future. As for the forest being a ridiculous place for the testing site; what was there 10,000 years ago???

3. Genii - we may be allied but it is very tenuous at best and the split between those loyal to Ladon and those loyal to Colya(sp?) is going to exist for a long time.

4. John never misses an opportunity to have a little fun at Rodney's expense and Harmony provided an excellent opportunity for that. When things got dangerous, he quickly abandoned the fun and decided they should head back.

5. It's about time somebody brought some of the better weapons along on their trips. They should all have a sidearm like Ronon's and I've have been calling for it for sometime now but my tv won't listen to me! I guess blanks are easier on the budget than CGI blasters though.

Harmony is not stupid, just immature. She did quite well setting up her little cave dinner. She is not different than many cultures and eras where children were put into power because of their bloodline. There are more people in charge than just the bloodline ruler. Lot's of real human nature in this storyline but some could not get past the typical plotlines and setting.

This was defintely not an episode for the hardliners. Sorry you could not relax and enjoy a sideline episode. I can just imagine if X-Files had a forum like this one. The calls for dumping all the weird, bizarre eps and getting back to the aliens would be ringing in every thread!

Not a flame on anyone, just a little opinion and observation. Keep the comments coming!

Jill_Ion
January 28th, 2008, 08:50 AM
I think I need to watch this ep one or two more times. Being that it's a Gero ep, which are usually my faves, and that it's a funny filler ep, which I usually enjoy, I expected to like Harmony more.

Harmony the kid was fine. Whiny, annoying, but well acted. McKay and Shep were fine, as usual, but as others have said, JF being sick may have diminished his usual "spark."

I did enjoy most of the snarky lines, the "dibs" concept, the hug, heck, even the painting, but overall, the ep felt odd. I think partially because it came after Quarantine, so we have two more mellow eps in a row. (This ep was moved from its original season slot, right?)

RE: the hug. I think Shep hugged Harmony and said the McKay makes him cry statement to get her to stop crying and get moving. I don't think he believed McKay ate his PowerBar, but it's easier to act like he believed a teenager and just tell McKay later he knew she ate it.

RE: the painting. One or more people said the painting would've been better if both Shep and Ronon were crouching, while McKay was being brave shooting hero. I agree. That would've been over the top hilarious.

Now, I did laugh my ass off when I saw the painting, and I would love to see it in real life, but other than that I didn't really like it. I think it's cuz I'm a Shep thunker. Not that I would want to see McKay crouching in fear either, cuz I really like his character. To me, the painting was Harmony's way of stamping her cute little feet and saying, "It's my glowy necklace and I wanted to shoot the mini-drones!" Obviously, Shep couldn't allow her to get in the line of fire, but a self-absorbed 13-yr-old girl isn't going to see that.

I love the mini-drones concept! I hope we can see more of them.

smushybird
January 28th, 2008, 08:50 AM
Yes, this should have been a Ronon/Teyla episode. Teyla with a mother-to-be sensibility, and Ronon exposing more of his paternal, touchy-feely side (in trying to protect the girl he could have had flashbacks to his own culture.) It would have been a good episode for both, to show that they aren't robots but miss their own families.

Also, the middle sister as evil sister - it was way too obvious. Why not throw us a curve ball and have say both sisters planning the coup - heck, why not the whole village!

Generally speaking, SGA stories of late have woefully lacked subtlety and indeterminacy.


As much as I love Sheppard/McKay episodes, I think you're right about this. It would have been a really interesting episode with Ronon and Teyla, and it would've made sense in light of the fact that no one suspected any danger at the beginning, so no problem with Teyla accompanying. I would've liked to see the parental interplay with the girl and Teyla and Ronon. I don't believe Teyla would've put up with the girl's behavior for very long. She would've taught the girl a thing or two. And Ronon dealing with Harmony's crush on him would've been cute, too. I could just see Harmony asking Teyla not to get in the way of Ronon becoming Harmony's eventual consort. :D

There's a lot of potential in a storyline like that.
It's a shame it didn't occur to the writers. Maybe they should hire you. :)

Jeffala
January 28th, 2008, 10:10 AM
1. I don't think you have to worry so much about the 13 y/o and her rule. There is obviously a ruling counsel that selected her from the 3 sisters and for good reason.

Based on the way it was presented in the episode, there was a "secret, sacred ceremony" to determine which of the three sisters would lead. If no one but the dead queen and the queen to be know about the Ancient weapons platform in the forest, how could a ruling council know enough to choose the one who could best operate/activate it?

My belief was that there was a device in the village that would choose the child with the gene or if they all have it, the most powerful, um, "concentration".

blue-skyz
January 28th, 2008, 10:35 AM
3. Genii - we may be allied but it is very tenuous at best and the split between those loyal to Ladon and those loyal to Colya(sp?) is going to exist for a long time.
I like Sheppard’s take on the Genii question. Since the trade is so important, these Genii may actually represent the main group. Ladon would not be handling everyday trade, somebody assigned to this planet by a trade administrator type would. So killing the new queen as a solution may not have occurred to the Genii further up the chain of command. We already know that the Genii have some scary ideas about how to get what they want. :S

McKAY: You really believe that Ladon would give the marching orders to kill a little girl – even this one?
SHEPPARD: I don't know how these people work. Maybe he told someone to fix the problem and this is what they came up with.
McKAY: It's creative!

Elinor
January 28th, 2008, 11:17 AM
I enjoyed this one. It was a nice bit of fun.

You always get your money's worth when an episode turns out to be 'The John and Rodney Show' and Harmony herself was fun to!! A proper little madam!! Jodelle played the part ever so well.

Loved the scene with "Our first fight" and Shep's expression. Heh! Also the line to Rodney "Your voice makes my ears hurt" (can't wait to use that one some time!)

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-009.gif

Crichiel
January 28th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Must say, I am totally shocked by the response to this one. The whole time I was watching, I was picking out all the things that I was SURE everyone would complain about. And that's not because I thought it was bad, I actually thought it was good. I adore Sheppard and McKay in everything they do together, and I thought the mini-drones were cool. But I was positive that when I got on here today, people would be ripping it apart for the 'obnoxious' little girl and moreso, for going so broad with the humour. I know kids on any show are kind of a hot button, and some people DID complain about her, but its nice to see how many of you still liked the episode. About the broad humour? I like charater-driven episodes, I like action episodes AND I like when Stargate does humour because I think it reflects all the different areas of life (its why I couldn't watch BSG after the first season, waaaayyyy to serious). So I liked this break after so many serious episodes this year. Last note: I found it interesting that the ONLY joke I found OTT and cringe-worthy was the one everyone else is praising--the picture at the end! Weird. ;)

Raven56
January 28th, 2008, 12:16 PM
Must say, I am totally shocked by the response to this one. ... snip for space ... Last note: I found it interesting that the ONLY joke I found OTT and cringe-worthy was the one everyone else is praising--the picture at the end! Weird. ;)
I actually despised the painting myself. Up until then, I had been wavering between enjoying the "J&R SHOW" and wanting to do something 'orrible to the kid ;), but that just made me back up and go "Whoa". Left me with a sour taste in my mouth. So you're not totally alone! :D

Amalthea
January 28th, 2008, 01:08 PM
Well, I can't say that I loved it. Halfway through I was wondering how much time was left.

That said, it was ok for a fluff episode. I think they had the child be too much of a brat to the point that it made no sense how she could be chosen as queen since she had no redeeming qualities.

Removing her from the equation, the Shep-Rodney stuff was entertaining enough. They were such... guys, for lack of a better word. LOL Drooling all over the girls as usual. But it was cool at the end how they formulated a plan without really saying anything to one another. Good teamwork!

I won't feel the need to watch it again, but it was a good enough way to spend an hour.

Raven56
January 28th, 2008, 01:52 PM
Well, I can't say that I loved it. Halfway through I was wondering how much time was left.

That said, it was ok for a fluff episode. I think they had the child be too much of a brat to the point that it made no sense how she could be chosen as queen since she had no redeeming qualities.

Removing her from the equation, the Shep-Rodney stuff was entertaining enough. They were such... guys, for lack of a better word. LOL Drooling all over the girls as usual. But it was cool at the end how they formulated a plan without really saying anything to one another. Good teamwork!

I won't feel the need to watch it again, but it was a good enough way to spend an hour.
Agreed! However, I probably will watch again, just picking the parts and ffing through the parts I didn't like.

Jill_Ion
January 28th, 2008, 01:57 PM
I think after I watch it again, I'll be able to ignore the parts I didn't like and enjoy the snark. :sheppard: :mckay:

Raven56
January 28th, 2008, 02:00 PM
I think after I watch it again, I'll be able to ignore the parts I didn't like and enjoy the snark. :sheppard: :mckay:

Yep. That's how I rewatch any of the very few episodes I don't enjoy as much as the rest.

Crichiel
January 28th, 2008, 02:12 PM
Yep. That's how I rewatch any of the very few episodes I don't enjoy as much as the rest.

Absolutely! And God bless the inventor of Fast Forward button!:D

morjana
January 28th, 2008, 02:22 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/harmony/priceless.jpg

Mitchell82
January 28th, 2008, 03:21 PM
i had my rant about the little girl in the thread about her, so with that over with i'll try to talk about the rest of the ep...

...


...


i'm a little annoyed with rodney at the beginning of the ep. he didn't break up with katie at end of last ep, and now he's like "dibs" on the new princess. i'm not sure what kind of man that makes him, and i'm not sure i like him when he's like this.
Oh come on you had to read between the lines in Quarantine. The "goodbye" and the look on his face as the door shuts signals it's over not to mention JM sid s much. Rodney was simply on the rebound.


i'm also quite shocked with all the slashing that gero put in. i'm not a slasher, but i felt this was quite obvious. rodney seemed a little jealous that harmony liked shep, and then john the queen at the end of the ep. i did ROFL at that tho, i was expecting harmony to go off at him, yelling about now he's the queen and should wear the crown. the thought of queen john still makes me smile :)
What slash? I didn't see it at all.


the pic at the end was funny, but it makes me hate harmony all the more, and i didn't wanna talk about that here, did i?
I've got to ask why?


i wonder who the genii were working for? i know the sister hired them, but are they real genii, or like kolya etc in Irrisponsible?
They were Genii but likely rebels.

blue-skyz
January 28th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Yes, this should have been a Ronon/Teyla episode. Teyla with a mother-to-be sensibility, and Ronon exposing more of his paternal, touchy-feely side (in trying to protect the girl he could have had flashbacks to his own culture.) It would have been a good episode for both, to show that they aren't robots but miss their own families.
Interesting idea to think about, substituting different characters in for Sheppard and McKay.

Reasons Harmony works, IMO
* It is not meant to be taken seriously. It is played for the humor of the situation.
* There is no emotion/warmth/surrogate parental feeling to muck up the humor.
* It exploits the established relationship between Sheppard and McKay.
* Sheppard and McKay are SGA’s two favorite characters.
* JF and DH are fine actors, each with enough presence to carry an episode.

Reasons Harmony would not work as described, IMO
* The story is a clichéd fairy tale. It would be trite and uninteresting if played seriously.
* Parental emotion and sentimentality as a basis for an SGA episode would be laughable, and not in a good way.
* Neither RL nor JM have the talent or presence to carry an episode, even together.

(Might work if it was being shown on Lifetime/WE/Family/Hallmark.;))

nx01a
January 28th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Filler episode to introduce cool Ancient tech that'll no doubt get used in some semi-pivotal way in the season finale. Just like in 'The Tower' [and the issues of sovereignty and the ATA gene] and the far superior [complete with dumb blonde scientist love interest] 'Inferno'.
Hilarious episode, though.
I assume that, since he activated the device, John's the Queen. :P
Rodney and the lil brat were great as adversaries, mirrored each other nicely.
The mini-drone concept works much better than mini-photon torpedoes, but I have to wonder why the Ancients would build mini-anything. Their triumphs and mistakes are usually so galactically huge. I was expecting another holographic dragon, but the mini-drones're cool.
Still a little sketchy also about 'the Ancient tech they have back at the castle'. What Ancient tech? I saw candles and wood. And I was watching in HD. :P
The painting was priceless.
The lack of any other main or guest star regulars was sad, though I suppose they were all used last week. No Atlantis or even a stargate, but we got new Ancient tech.
Nice filler, but I want my regular cast and story arcs back.

Falcon Horus
January 28th, 2008, 05:25 PM
Interesting idea to think about, substituting different characters in for Sheppard and McKay.

Reasons Harmony works, IMO
* It is not meant to be taken seriously. It is played for the humor of the situation.
* There is no emotion/warmth/surrogate parental feeling to muck up the humor.
* It exploits the established relationship between Sheppard and McKay.
* Sheppard and McKay are SGA’s two favorite characters.
* JF and DH are fine actors, each with enough presence to carry an episode.

Reasons Harmony would not work as described, IMO
* The story is a clichéd fairy tale. It would be trite and uninteresting if played seriously.
* Parental emotion and sentimentality as a basis for an SGA episode would be laughable, and not in a good way.
* Neither RL nor JM have the talent or presence to carry an episode, even together.

(Might work if it was being shown on Lifetime/WE/Family/Hallmark.;))

Biased anyone? ;)

In your honest opinion, I'm sure.

I wouldn't have minded seeing that particular storyline done by characters other than Shep or Rodney... and yes, I am too biased as hell in that regard.

PG15
January 28th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Yes, this should have been a Ronon/Teyla episode. Teyla with a mother-to-be sensibility, and Ronon exposing more of his paternal, touchy-feely side (in trying to protect the girl he could have had flashbacks to his own culture.) It would have been a good episode for both, to show that they aren't robots but miss their own families.

Teyla's off the team, remember? They actually only involved Shep and McKay so they can give Rachel some rest.


Also, the middle sister as evil sister - it was way too obvious. Why not throw us a curve ball and have say both sisters planning the coup - heck, why not the whole village!

Then why would they want protection for Harmony at all?

I know you mean well, and I can see their merits, but, you know, it doesn't quite work with the situation.

AGateFan
January 28th, 2008, 05:41 PM
Biased anyone? ;)

In your honest opinion, I'm sure.

I wouldn't have minded seeing that particular storyline done by characters other than Shep or Rodney... and yes, I am too biased as hell in that regard.
Well one problem with doing it with other characters is that neither Telya or Ronan have the gene to work the gear nor would be able to fix ancient equipment. I could see it as a Teyla Rodney ep or maybe a Ronan\Rodney ep but thats a stretch as Ronan wouldnt have been stupid enough to agree to help the kid to begin with and Rodney cant order him to do so even if he was inclind to do so himself. Teyla could be more sympathetic and could convince Rodney.

Sure the ep could have been completely re-written in a way so that it would work with Teyla \ Ronan, but then its not really the same ep.

EDIT to the above: I was hoping that the "good" sister had her own reasons for involving SGA...maybe an extra bonus to the Genii rebel types in exchange for taking care of the sister. The middle sister was so obvious it just would have been nice if they had a slight curve in there and both sisters scheming (or the "good" one being not so good while the perceived 'bad' one is just apathetic would have worked for me).

marielabbott
January 28th, 2008, 06:06 PM
Reasons Harmony would not work as described, IMO
* The story is a clichéd fairy tale. It would be trite and uninteresting if played seriously.
* Parental emotion and sentimentality as a basis for an SGA episode would be laughable, and not in a good way.
* Neither RL nor JM have the talent or presence to carry an episode, even together.

(Might work if it was being shown on Lifetime/WE/Family/Hallmark.;))

It's interesting you mention that parental emotion will be laughable as the basis for an SGA episode...I wonder if we're going to get such an episode next year, with Teyla's pregnancy. I don't ask them to dwell on her child, but it would be nice for them to explore her motherhood struggles. I certainly don't want them to totally ignore the baby, or how Teyla will change being a parent. If done well, I don't think it would be a laughable basis for an episode.

I'll have to respectfully disagree that RL or JM don't have the talent or presence to carry an episode. The things I liked most about Missing and Reunion were the performances of RL and JM. It made me wish they had more opportunites to really shine. ;)

I understand the reasons Teyla and Ronon were not in Harmony (real life parental responsibilites), but by this time in the season, I'm really missing an old-fashioned team episode.

blue-skyz
January 28th, 2008, 06:31 PM
It's interesting you mention that parental emotion will be laughable as the basis for an SGA episode...I wonder if we're going to get such an episode next year, with Teyla's pregnancy. I don't ask them to dwell on her child, but it would be nice for them to explore her motherhood struggles. I certainly don't want them to totally ignore the baby, or how Teyla will change being a parent. If done well, I don't think it would be a laughable basis for an episode.
I’m sure we will have parental considerations in snippets included in episodes in the future, in the same way they have touched on pregnancy issues this year. An episode with a heave dose of parenting and sentimentality would be inappropriate and boring. Harmony would have been hopeless.

I am not against them showing Teyla as a parent (God, I hope this baby’s normal). On the contrary, I would like them to keep the baby on Atlantis. It would give Teyla a focus and something to do. The issues of being a working mother could be touched on from time to time. I would really have liked to see Kanan come to live on Atlantis and care for the baby, or even care for it at the Atosian camp and have Teyla come and go. I think Teyla having to deal with a husband and the baby would have been more interesting. Too bad they kill him off. I’d have rather seen them keep him and kill the baby off.

Vala_M
January 28th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Still a little sketchy also about 'the Ancient tech they have back at the castle'. What Ancient tech? I saw candles and wood. And I was watching in HD. :P

Maybe it was edited out of the episode for time constraints like Carter's friendly talk with Caldwell in "Be All My Sins Remember'd" which was in the spoilers for months but nobody saw.


The lack of any other main or guest star regulars was sad, though I suppose they were all used last week.

You know, that the real reason Ronon and Teyla weren't in the episode is because the mini-drones would have killed them, remember that they took ANYONE out who didn't have the ATA gene and Ronon and Teyla don't have it.

Vala,

marielabbott
January 28th, 2008, 06:43 PM
I am not against them showing Teyla as a parent (God, I hope this baby’s normal). On the contrary, I would like them to keep the baby on Atlantis. It would give Teyla a focus and something to do. The issues of being a working mother could be touched on from time to time. I would really have liked to see Kanan come to live on Atlantis and care for the baby, or even care for it at the Atosian camp and have Teyla come and go. I think Teyla having to deal with a husband and the baby would have been more interesting. Too bad they kill him off. I’d have rather seen them keep him and kill the baby off.

I also really hope the baby is normal. My concern now is that they will have the child kidnapped....:S

nx01a
January 28th, 2008, 06:50 PM
I figured time constraints were the issue and the relevant 'Ancient tech back at the castle' scene was edited out, must check that producer's blog for more info. :D I'm wondering what tech they had, though. The first sign of functioning Ancient technology and I'm sure Rodney would have had jumper teams searching the entire planet for more. Must be something that wouldn't necessarily require the user to have the gene [hence their surprise at the girl having it] and much less interesting than a life signs detector. :P
The episode didn't need anyone but the two of them, it was a nice buddy show with the brat thrown in for comedic effect. Now I'd like to see an episode with everyone BUT John and Rodney.

blue-skyz
January 28th, 2008, 06:50 PM
I also really hope the baby is normal. My concern now is that they will have the child kidnapped....:S
I so hope that they just let him be a baby with a city full of uncles and aunts cooing over him and vying for baby sitting time. No kidnapping, no genetic weirdness, no death.:S

Jill_Ion
January 28th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Maybe it was edited out of the episode for time constraints like Carter's friendly talk with Caldwell in "Be All My Sins Remember'd" which was in the spoilers for months but nobody saw.



You know, that the real reason Ronon and Teyla weren't in the episode is because the mini-drones would have killed them, remember that they took ANYONE out who didn't have the ATA gene and Ronon and Teyla don't have it.

Vala,

But I don't think the concept of the mini-drones is to take out anyone without the ATA gene, though that's what happened here. I think they're supposed to be guidable, like big drones. Theoretically, the Queen-to-Be would be able to direct them against anyone who was trying to attack her.

But then...if we're on the Queen's planet, why do they need the mini-drones? Is the Queen always in that much danger from her people or enemies? Hmmmm....

Going back to what blue-skyz said about RL and JMm not having talent enough to carry the episode. I have to respectfully disagree also, but it would have certainly changed the feel of the ep if they had been the adults, instead of Shep and McKay.

nx01a
January 28th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Rodney and Shep are the two biggest kids on SGA, partnering them up with a real kid with huge responsibilities and a massively bad personality works out perfectly.

I think both Teyla and Ronon could easily have worked and should at some point in the future, minus the brat. We've seen them on missions together before and it was all Teyla and Dr. Firefly a few episodes ago. It'll be fun.

I assume the mini-drones were programmed to swarm and protect the control panel from non-Ancients, not that they did that good of a job, but still. That's what the legend of the beast [like Merlin's Black Knight] was about, to keep stupid regular humans away and hole-free and also why the queen in waiting had to go alone. I assume the ATA gene is a royal bloodline thing, like in 'The Tower'; the other tech IS back in the castle;). I'd love to see the rest of that facility, though; there must be more underground.

Lotsa happiness for the baby. Well, there HAS to be the season ending/mid season kidnapping, but he'll be back safe and sound before you know it. We're already talking kidnapping and we haven't seen Shep or Ronon on a disabled jumper having to deliver the baby. I say have Rodney help deliver it, he'd be a great godfather. Baby's first oscilloscope.:P

Jill_Ion
January 28th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Oooh, a Stargate kidnapping! Ooooooh! :) That sounds interesting!

nx01a
January 28th, 2008, 07:14 PM
As opposed to Ba'al kidnapping stargates, yes. ;)

Jill_Ion
January 28th, 2008, 07:16 PM
:lol:

Followed by a big space battle, and then cooing over a cute baby!

nx01a
January 28th, 2008, 07:18 PM
Mini-drones, mini-person! It all works out! Brilliant!

blue-skyz
January 28th, 2008, 07:18 PM
But I don't think the concept of the mini-drones is to take out anyone without the ATA gene, though that's what happened here. I think they're supposed to be guidable, like big drones. Theoretically, the Queen-to-Be would be able to direct them against anyone who was trying to attack her.
The mini-drones didn’t kill all the Genii. To start with McKay said they were in auto-protect mode. I guess that means they use some AI to determine the threat level and who to kill. I don’t know why they killed the first two Genii; carrying weapons too close to the gene carriers? When Sheppard activated the device, he must have had control of the drones like he does from the chair. They didn’t hurt any of the Genii until the leader tried to shoot at Sheppard, then the drones attack him, but not the others.

I hope we see more of the mini-drones. The queen will sure be glad to see McKay when he comes back to study them.:P

But then...if we're on the Queen's planet, why do they need the mini-drones? Is the Queen always in that much danger from her people or enemies?
The drones are a left over Ancient experiment. I don’t think the royalty there ever uses them, although, clearly Harmony knew that she should be able to. The device is not conveniently located. It is probably used only as a part of the tradition rather than for defense. Also McKay said taking the pendant to it once a generation might be necessary to keep it and whatever other Ancient tech they have operational.

Jill_Ion
January 28th, 2008, 07:31 PM
OK, thanks, blue-skyz! That helps get things right in my brain! :)

nx01a
January 28th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Perhaps the mini-drones have specific flight paths/search patterns and simply didn't come across any other Genii? The weapons/too near premise also has weight.
Hmm, failed Ancient experiment that Rodney'll have to either perfect or use to destroy a solar system? Should be fun. They're an interesting anti-personnel weapon, though we've seen how easily their big brothers take out Kull warriors. I guess using a drone against a person is overkill. Swarm him to death with mini-drones instead.

blue-skyz
January 28th, 2008, 07:40 PM
I guess using a drone against a person is overkill. Swarm him to death with mini-drones instead.
I hope they figure out how to make drones, both sizes. Maybe they could find an Ancient drone factory or directions hidden in the database or in a database they find somewhere else.

nx01a
January 28th, 2008, 07:44 PM
I'm constantly amazed by how much interesting yet useless information they can pull out of the database yet 'ZPM' + 'How To' always seem so difficult.
Until they open that magic building on Atlantis where they have the drone and ZPM factories, I'll assume the production facilities for both are offworld somewhere.
Hopefully the team will be able to not only get fresh supplies of drones and mini-drones but also learn how to make them from this place. Now: the ZPM planet. And no, I don't mean Asuras...

blue-skyz
January 28th, 2008, 08:02 PM
I'm constantly amazed by how much interesting yet useless information they can pull out of the database yet 'ZPM' + 'How To' always seem so difficult.
Until they open that magic building on Atlantis where they have the drone and ZPM factories, I'll assume the production facilities for both are offworld somewhere.
Hopefully the team will be able to not only get fresh supplies of drones and mini-drones but also learn how to make them from this place. Now: the ZPM planet. And no, I don't mean Asuras...
I'm going to assume that they would not make either in a city. Let’s make our munitions and other potentially dangerous stuff down under the south pier, where we can sink the city if it blows. On the other hand, they seem to have done a lot of other dangerous stuff there.

They didn’t seem to use the rest of Lantea for anything that they ever found (always seemed strange to me), so they had to keep all the nasty industrial stuff on other worlds. There had to be a lot of Ancients at one time, so they had to live on other worlds and some of them had to heavily populated. I sure would like to go and scavenge some Ancient ruins the size of NYC. ;)

Mitchell82
January 28th, 2008, 10:24 PM
Interesting idea to think about, substituting different characters in for Sheppard and McKay.

Reasons Harmony works, IMO
* It is not meant to be taken seriously. It is played for the humor of the situation.
* There is no emotion/warmth/surrogate parental feeling to muck up the humor.
* It exploits the established relationship between Sheppard and McKay.
* Sheppard and McKay are SGA’s two favorite characters.
* JF and DH are fine actors, each with enough presence to carry an episode.
This I agree with.


Reasons Harmony would not work as described, IMO
* The story is a clichéd fairy tale. It would be trite and uninteresting if played seriously.

* Parental emotion and sentimentality as a basis for an SGA episode would be laughable, and not in a good way.
Not sure I agree with this one.

* Neither RL nor JM have the talent or presence to carry an episode, even together.

(Might work if it was being shown on Lifetime/WE/Family/Hallmark.;))
I definatly disagree here. They both have great tallent which has been shown on screen.

blue-skyz
January 29th, 2008, 05:23 AM
Biased anyone? ;)

In your honest opinion, I'm sure.

I wouldn't have minded seeing that particular storyline done by characters other than Shep or Rodney... and yes, I am too biased as hell in that regard.
Bias noun (use your imagination to get the adjective)
A partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation
A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

Biased? Hmmmm Have to admit, I never thought of that word the whole time I’ve been here.
I accepted, without acknowledging it, that being biased was the normal operating mode here.

Almost everything that is said here is opinion, preferences, interpretations.
A few ‘facts’ thrown in to stir the pot.

Biased? So, yes I am biased. But what I said was stated as my opinion.
And actually, it was my honest opinion. Why would I bother with any other kind?

I am working from my likes and dislikes; from my experience and perceptions.
Take anything I say with a grain of salt.
None of it will change the world or matter beyond tomorrow.

solarscreen
January 29th, 2008, 08:15 AM
Based on the way it was presented in the episode, there was a "secret, sacred ceremony" to determine which of the three sisters would lead. If no one but the dead queen and the queen to be know about the Ancient weapons platform in the forest, how could a ruling council know enough to choose the one who could best operate/activate it?

My belief was that there was a device in the village that would choose the child with the gene or if they all have it, the most powerful, um, "concentration".

Of course, the ep presented to us showed a veiw point that involved the three sisters and would appear to us to be "secret and sacred" but in reality is more likely otherwise. I still say the oldest sister knew there was something going on and had it arranged to involve Atlantis to sort it out. I'm also not convinced that the pendant was what actually controlled the ancient technology and not the gene. The ancients made it clear that the necklace was vitally important to the success of this culture. If all you needed was the gene, no need for the necklace. I know, the glowing pendant provides proof but it's too coincidental to be nothing but a proof of power.

History shows us that there have always been the empowered circle of support standing with or against the bloodline ruler and that the power of that kingdom was as much from the support system surrounding the royals as the royals themselves. A King or Queen serves to embody the authority of the kingdom and provide a single, simple point of focus for the commoners to dedicate their admiration, loyalty, or anger toward. It is always much more complex than that.

We see a single, somewhat humorous treatment of the culture from a narrow focus but the details can be inferred from what we are given and from good understanding of monarchies and oligarchies in our own history. Today's student is so easily distracted by the appearance of the Powerpoint presentation to see the real details of the information contained in the flash and color. 42 minutes is really really tough to give us all the obvious details in a way to keep each type of viewer attentive and focused on the story while giving the kind of content each type wants to see.

If you are told it's magical, mystical, mysterious, paranormal, unbelievable then you are only looking at the curtain, not the man behind the curtain. Many people are not able to grasp reality and some just don't want to know it so the amusement park above ground serves them well. The world just below them and in the offices just outside the park is where the real world is and where the truth of the success or failure of a society is made.

As in The Matrix or The Village, there's a complex story behind a simple scene and even more complicated reasons for making it that way.

solarscreen
January 29th, 2008, 08:21 AM
I like Sheppard’s take on the Genii question. Since the trade is so important, these Genii may actually represent the main group. Ladon would not be handling everyday trade, somebody assigned to this planet by a trade administrator type would. So killing the new queen as a solution may not have occurred to the Genii further up the chain of command. We already know that the Genii have some scary ideas about how to get what they want. :S

McKAY: You really believe that Ladon would give the marching orders to kill a little girl – even this one?
SHEPPARD: I don't know how these people work. Maybe he told someone to fix the problem and this is what they came up with.
McKAY: It's creative!Good point and I think it furthers the idea that the Genii are a large disjointed mess to deal with, complete with undercurrents and overtones we haven't even begun to discover. I'm glad they haven't been forgotten I just wish they had better uniforms than the ridiculous stuff they wear now.

Falcon Horus
January 29th, 2008, 08:33 AM
You know, that the real reason Ronon and Teyla weren't in the episode is because the mini-drones would have killed them, remember that they took ANYONE out who didn't have the ATA gene and Ronon and Teyla don't have it.

Ready to poke a huge hole in your theory when I see that Blue-Skyz beat me to it.


The mini-drones didn’t kill all the Genii. To start with McKay said they were in auto-protect mode. I guess that means they use some AI to determine the threat level and who to kill. I don’t know why they killed the first two Genii; carrying weapons too close to the gene carriers? When Sheppard activated the device, he must have had control of the drones like he does from the chair. They didn’t hurt any of the Genii until the leader tried to shoot at Sheppard, then the drones attack him, but not the others.

So, nevermind...


...Dr. Firefly...

LOL! :p

Ruffles
January 29th, 2008, 09:28 AM
I'm constantly amazed by how much interesting yet useless information they can pull out of the database yet 'ZPM' + 'How To' always seem so difficult.
Until they open that magic building on Atlantis where they have the drone and ZPM factories, I'll assume the production facilities for both are offworld somewhere.
Hopefully the team will be able to not only get fresh supplies of drones and mini-drones but also learn how to make them from this place. Now: the ZPM planet. And no, I don't mean Asuras...

I found it interesting that Rodney not only recognized what the mini-drone machine was, he knew what it did and said that they'd been searching for it for 2 years. I wonder why the Ancients left out (removed?) such vital information from their database. Could it be they did it purposefully since they knew (from Before I Sleep) that humans would return in 10,000 years, and they didn't believe them capable enough to point them directly to the ZPM creation machine?

Bachall
January 29th, 2008, 10:00 AM
I feel like this would have made a much better novella. To enjoy this episode, I really had to turn off my cringe-o-meter. As a student of history and culture, much of the cultural stuff on SG can make my skin crawl - but when they venture into the more stereotyped cultures it's the worst.

Ie, I really enjoyed any time Yu the Great and the other Asian System Lords appeared. The early Egyptians were okay. British and Norse gods, not so much (shiver).

Anyway, I can imagine the story that wasn't told here. Maybe these thoughts were actually in MG's head, maybe not.


Sister 1 and 3 are agreed politically and know Sister 2 is in favor of abandoning the policies of their mother
Sister 3 is chosen. Sister 1 realizes the danger, prevents Sister 3 from running immediately out to complete the ceremony (as Harmony obviously would, being very headstrong and impulsive). "You need training," she says, knowing the SGA guys are coming.
Sister 1 can't send her younger sister out with guard from her own people, knowing the drones will be dangerous for someone not in the royal line (Sister 3 knows this too - she is not surprised when John disappears)
Sister 1 has seen the boys both operate tech of the Ancestors, and makes a "leap of faith" in her own mind - that possibly the drones will not harm them since they have the same abilities as the royal line.
Fast forward to her seemingly random and off-hand request for help.


That's a whole lot of back story that can't, just can't go in a 42 minute episode about a planet no one cares about. Hence, my overall feeling that shortchanging this potential made this one limp along rather pitifully.

However, as I said, I turned off the cringe-o-meter and thoroughly enjoyed the banter. Uh, except, anyone else getting this weird feeling about McKay? I thought it was the different writers maybe but MG can usually get his voice right on the dot. There's something soft or fading there, like an edge that's gone off?

Wow, who let the newbie in here? blah, blah . . .:o

blue-skyz
January 29th, 2008, 10:17 AM
Could it be they did it purposefully since they knew (from Before I Sleep) that humans would return in 10,000 years, and they didn't believe them capable enough to point them directly to the ZPM creation machine?
The problem with that is that if Janus hadn’t extended the life of the power, all the humans would have died again.

If they wanted to save the humans, it looks like they could have gone through the gate and retrieved a spare ZPM or two to leave for the doomed humans that were following them to Pegasus. Not like evacuating the submerged city immediately was critical. Also, Janus could have left the whereabouts of extra ones in a more prominent place than old Weir’s pocket. Of course, he did expect her to wake up when they got there. Leaving the location of a secret underground ZPM manufacturing facility and/or directions for the manufacturing process would have been a ‘humane’ gesture. :rolleyes:;):P

garhkal
January 29th, 2008, 10:42 AM
Interesting that another civilization in the Pegasus Galaxy also has the Ancient gene.

I wonder too. That makes at least 3 now, with the people from the Tower and those from the Aurora in a volcano settlement beinng the other 2.



And the leader of the Genii is that Jaffa commander from Baals ship building planet.

You mean the one 'Work or die'?? where they had tealc and britak in prison?
he was also in that ep of SG1 where the Tok'ra and Jaffa fled to our Alpha site ut had a Asrak follow then and kill a few..


I did really like McKay shielding her from gunfire near the end--Rodney finally saves a kid, like he talked about way back in Hot Zone. :).

Well we know he is selfless when others lives are on the line, as he willfully stayed back working on the doors in Before i Sleep,, when the AU atlantis had not rissen due to the ZPM being depleted..


Rodney's suggestion of stunning the kid was so funny, cuz you could see Sheppard was actually thinking about it! Yeah, Harmony's like a little female Rodney McKay, well, with the ego, not the brains.

Part of me hoped they DID shoot her..


The fact is, that in most 'primitive' cultures marriage at a young age is very common. Not so very long ago girls even in this country were starting their own families at 13. It just sort of suprises me when people get all shocked over it. The age of 18 isn't some magical year 'girls' become 'women', it is just an age that a bunch of politicians picked out that they decided teenagers could finally be considered responsible adults. What a difference 5 short years makes I suppose. Granted times were harsher way back when, and children 'grew up' quicker mainly because they had to. They were expected to act like adults and were treated accordingly. Somehow, those 'kids' managed to rise to the challenge. The point being that 13 year old kids are only 'kids' because people deem them to be so, not because they 'are'. Were young teenagers treated like adults and expected to act accordingly most of them would do so. On the other hand, you have 30 year olds that act as immature as any young teenager. Just in case anyone is wondering, I am NOT being gender specific here. The same is true of both genders in everything I've said here. Young boys in those 'primitive' cultures are often considered 'men' by the age of 13 as well, with all the responsibility that title implies.

That s a very valid point. Even now on earth there are cultures where it is ok for a 13yr old to be married off. And i feel that somewhere in the modern times where we started looking at 18 as the magical age for everything, that those of lesser years felt they had no reason any more to show responsibility and morals/maturity.. Take a look at the yob culture in england now days.



As Harmony continues to run down the slope, guns start to fire at her from the ridge. Rodney cowers down beside the crystal tray. As John looks for something to aim at, Rodney turns to run for cover and crashes into Harmony, knocking her to the ground. The impact jolts his rifle out of his hand. He leans across Harmony’s prostrate body to reach for it.

So he didn’t actually try to protect her at all. She misunderstood his actions.

That maybe true, but he did stand up in front of her while shooting was still going on and drug her to safety.


Hi, first post here. I believe PFD stands for Plot Forwarding Device. Much shorter than, "Handheld Blinky Beepy Thing That Someone Looks at and Discusses."

So PFD is better than HBBTTSAaD...

jckfan55
January 29th, 2008, 12:00 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/harmony/priceless.jpg

I found the episode pretty cliched and predictable, but I did laugh at the painting. :D Poor Shep.

Mitchell82
January 29th, 2008, 12:24 PM
I wonder too. That makes at least 3 now, with the people from the Tower and those from the Aurora in a volcano settlement beinng the other 2.
Well in the Tower only a few did and as to those in the Volcano settlement I don't think they actually had the gene. All they did was open doors and use the computer.




You mean the one 'Work or die'?? where they had tealc and britak in prison?
he was also in that ep of SG1 where the Tok'ra and Jaffa fled to our Alpha site ut had a Asrak follow then and kill a few..
Uh no he was only in Orpheus. I'm preety sure he wasn't in Allegience.




Well we know he is selfless when others lives are on the line, as he willfully stayed back working on the doors in Before i Sleep,, when the AU atlantis had not rissen due to the ZPM being depleted..
Different Rodney though.




Part of me hoped they DID shoot her..
She was a bit annoying but not that much.

Alan
January 29th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Okay...I've watched Harmony and as I predicted from the trailer...I didn't think too much of it. I'm not a McKay fan so that didn't help. He's always the one thing about Stargate: Atlantis that ruins it for me including the episodes of Stargate SG-1 he guest starred in. Sorry McKay fans.

Also it seemed to me that Joe Flanigan - an actor I like very much - didn't seem to be giving his all in this one. Maybe he was unwell when he filmed this or maybe the quality of the script didn't help bring out the best of him? He definitely didn't seem to be firing on all cylinders to me and I was hoping and counting on Joe to be the one good thing about Harmony.

There was something off about the whole episode. The entire thing just left me numb. I'm not even gonna give this a marking out of 10. I don't know what to make of this episode at all. The previous 13 episodes have been brilliant but this is the weakest of Season 4 so far.

Luckily Outcast looks much better and, if my maths is correct, from here on there are no more Sam-less episodes. Fantastic! :D

SeaBee
January 29th, 2008, 02:12 PM
OK. At the risk of opening myself up to ridicule, scorn and derision I am putting down on this here thread what I thought of this episode.

I tried. I really tried. I watched it all the way through. I resisted the urge to change channel after 10 minutes. I stopped myself from throwing my coffee cup through the screen after 20 minutes. (the rental company wouldn't have approved) I even refrained from swearing every few minutes. (the kids were in the room)

This was, in my own opinion, the most annoying and pointless episode of SGA EVER.

I'm not sure which was more annoying, the whining drone from the mini drones or the whining drone from McKay. The man has been an immature whining egomaniac for four seasons, isn't it time he was allowed to grow up a bit? It was ok to be like that in the 3 SG-1 eps he was in because he was only a re-occuring character, and it doesn't matter if they are annoying, they won't be arround long. McKay, however, is on the show every week and, frankly, the one trick pony has got boring.

Shepherd, as the straight man to the two obnoxious children, was as boring a performance as I have seen.

Harmony was as annoying as she could be, which means she was exactly as written. That is not my problem. My problem was the choice of child actress for the role. As soon as I saw her I thought "Oh no! They're not introducing the Ori to this show, are they? And why is Adria a child again?"

Come on, there must be more young actresses in Canada than that.

And the Genii? Again? Couldn't it have been a small band of disaffected locals or a team of mercenaries hired by the signposted evil sister? While I'm on the subject, do they not teach Genii soldiers to count in basic training? They knew there were two escorts for the Princess, yet completly ignored the fact that one was missing when they first stopped McKay and Harmony, allowing Shepherd to get into position.
Sloppy, real sloppy.

All in all, this ep is not their finest hour.

ciannwn
January 29th, 2008, 02:44 PM
I've just watched this episode and I loved it. First there were the 'fairy tale' clichés. It's always the youngest brother or sister who gets the kingdom or reward. Then there's the wicked sister trying to dispose of her rival (often it's the wicked stepmother doing this). The Genii were the equivalent of the villain's henchmen who try to kill the rival in the forest. Sheppard and McKay were like the 'helpers' which the fairy tale hero/heroine needs because they can do things which he/she can't.

I thought Harmony was wonderful because she was meant to be annoying. She was a typical 13 year old girl in many ways - thinking she knows it all, trying to act grownup one minute and being a complete brat the next. (I was once a 13 year old girl myself and I went to school with other 13 year old girls.) She's reckless but she's also courageous and has a sense of honour and obligation - yes, she could have gone back to the settlement and pretended that she'd completed the rite of passage but, as she points out, "I would know". She lies about the power bar and puts the blame on Rodney but there are some things which should never be lied about. She's also practical and down to earth because she catches a bird, builds a fire and cooks her own dinner.

Her falling in love with Sheppard and then going off him a couple of hours later is also typical of a kid her age. I thought her proposal of marriage was very funny. She's decided that he's going to be the King she'll need at an unspecified time in the future and misinterprets his discomfort as him being overwhelmed by the honour she intends to bestow upon him. Even her "There's no need to answer now," and "You shouldn't make your decision rashly" came across to me as her taking it for granted that he was going to agree so giving him time to think about it was just a formality.

What kind of Queen might she be when she grows up? It's impossible to tell at the moment. She's intellectually aware that she has to strike a balance between her people's needs and her own but it doesn't guarantee that she will do so when she's in a position of power. Far too many kings and queens throughout history have put their own wants first. She's highly intelligent and sharp as a razor, though, so I don't think it would be easy for anyone to cheat her on trades.

There were hints that there was a much darker side to life in this settlement. Harmony threatens Rodney in a way which suggests that punishments in her society are somewhat medieval and she also knows what thumb screws are. Mardola could be in for a very unpleasant time in prison but this, too, is very much in keeping with 'fairy tales' before they got watered down for children.

The dialogue was very entertaining and that painting at the end was priceless. Finally, a little detail which amused me was Harmony offering Sheppard the bird's heart and him refusing it as though the thought of eating it made him feel queasy. It just reminded me of that scene in 'Missing' when Teyla wanted Keller to eat that squidlike creature's insides.

Jill_Ion
January 29th, 2008, 07:13 PM
{snip}

Also it seemed to me that Joe Flanigan - an actor I like very much - didn't seem to be giving his all in this one. Maybe he was unwell when he filmed this or maybe the quality of the script didn't help bring out the best of him? He definitely didn't seem to be firing on all cylinders to me and I was hoping and counting on Joe to be the one good thing about Harmony.

{snip}

JF had food poisoning during the filming of Harmony. I think that affected his performance a little.

Alan
January 29th, 2008, 07:22 PM
JF had food poisoning during the filming of Harmony. I think that affected his performance a little.

Thanks for clarifying that, Jill_Ion. I knew that there was something off throughout that whole episode. Shame that it was an illness that kept him from his best in an episode that could really have done with Joe Flanigan at his best. Obviously if your ill, your ill and that's that and I in no way blame Joe for this episode failing to impress me. In fact I applaud him for continuing to work despite his illness. Well done that man.

nx01a
January 29th, 2008, 09:57 PM
Food poisoning? Damn power bars!!!!

I was glad to hear that they managed to actually get information on something of value out of the database, despite not knowing where it was. What sense does that make?
"We have a drone experimentation facility. We won't say where it is."

garhkal
January 30th, 2008, 08:16 AM
Uh no he was only in Orpheus. I'm preety sure he wasn't in Allegience.


Watch it again. When that Tok'ra funeral happened, he was teh one who got into it with them after asking a question, then later on when that Tok'ra was killed he was the one suspected of doing it.

Other than IMDB are there other websites to look at the actors and actresses in SG1/SGA>

Jill_Ion
January 30th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Food poisoning? Damn power bars!!!!

I was glad to hear that they managed to actually get information on something of value out of the database, despite not knowing where it was. What sense does that make?
"We have a drone experimentation facility. We won't say where it is."

Well, McKay did say the Ancients kept secrets from each other. I suppose whoever was working on the mini-drones didn't tell the Ancients' IT people so it could be put in the database.

Silly Ancients! :mckay: