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FallenAngelII
January 15th, 2008, 12:42 AM
A lot of you know how much I hated the-episode-that-must-not-be-named ("Travelers") for all of the sexual innuendo, double-entendres and actual slutty behaviour and was really not looking forward to Larrin's return.

And with "Be All My Sins Remember'd", I got a vague "Irresistible-Irresponsible"-feeling. Let me explain:
In Irresistible, we were presented with a most hateful character. I really, really, really loathed him and wished he'd just die. Unfortuantely, he didn't. And unfortuantely, he came back. In the 2nd episode, he was less hateful, but still hateful. So if I were to choose between the lesser of two plagues, I'd choose Irresponsible.

In regards to Larrin, BAMSR felt like that. It was a toned down Larrin with less sexual innuendo and double-entendres but it was still her and she and John still engaged in sex-baiting. Which kinda annoyed me because they were supposedly preparing for war and even when they were sitting around discussing battle plans, they were overtly flirting (as Sam picked up on going by her reaction). I was much less annoying this time around but it was still kinda "Meh".

jenks
January 15th, 2008, 12:58 AM
I've changed my mind slightly in regards to Larrin, it's not so much that she's a terrible character, just that her interactions with Sheppard are awful. If she was in an episode with the full team it would be fine, it's just the cheesy BS they write for her when she's with Sheppard that brings her character down.

FallenAngelII
January 15th, 2008, 01:31 AM
I've changed my mind slightly in regards to Larrin, it's not so much that she's a terrible character, just that her interactions with Sheppard are awful. If she was in an episode with the full team it would be fine, it's just the cheesy BS they write for her when she's with Sheppard that brings her character down.
I doubt she only interacts with John that way. What makes him so sepcial? Because he's pretty. That would make Larrin even worse of a character. All of that trash + shallow.

I think it's more her way of interacting with men.

Opener
January 15th, 2008, 08:45 AM
She knows what effect she has on men, and she doesn't hesitate to use it to her advantage. Like kissing a man to get at his stunner.:)

Darien
January 15th, 2008, 10:23 AM
Interesting to see how much some of you hate that character. I personally like her very much. And no, not just because she's a hottie.

blue-skyz
January 15th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Reposted in part from the Season 4 Open thread:

I like BAMSR. I like Travelers. I basically like Larrin in both.

That doesn’t mean I take her seriously. To me she is the comic relief. A real character, with real purpose, but written to be the focus of humor. Once I got over the ‘you’ve got to be kidding’ reaction during Travelers, I started to get interested in her as a character. She brings an interesting group of people to SGA; an advanced group of people with technology we haven’t seen before. I’ll love any Pegasus group with tech, good or bad. I am so sick of primitive, medieval, pre-industrial (you get the idea) peoples …

(I hope the hints about a new advanced race are true. I would be fun to learn about them, and through them, learn more about the Ancients and Pegasus history and, hell, throw in the rest of the universe too.)

I think Larrin is a good character for two reasons related to Sheppard:

She is a focus for Sheppard’s silliness. :P I like to see Sheppard/JF get to act in ways I don’t want Sheppard to act ordinarily. Nice to see him act unsure, confused, silly, attracted to a woman. I DO NOT want to see Sheppard act silly in the middle of missions and he has not been doing that this season. So, my take on Larrin is that she provides us with a safely humorous Sheppard. I’ve decided to go with it and enjoy it without over thinking it.

In a season with everyone else getting romantically involved, McKay thinking of marriage, Teyla pregnant, Ronon stuck in bed with Keller ;), Sheppard needed to have something going on with someone. :S I never, ever want to see Sheppard with any main character or recurring Atlantis character, not even insinuations. Larrin can be interesting and funny, without being serious.

There is no other way to take Sheppard’s being tied up in BAMSR. It is so over-the-top that there can be no question why it is there. It is funny. It is a piece in the puzzle that is Larrin and why Sheppard acts as he does around her. BAMSR is an indication of how their acquaintance is going to progress in the future. I look forward to seeing more of Larrin and the Travelers.

I think Larrin is a risky move on the writer’s/producer’s part, but, I always thought the silliness during missions was stupid on their part and the lowest part of the show. I’m happy to have it in a more appropriate place.

blue-skyz
January 15th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Reposted in part from my review of BAMSR

Larrin is an interesting character. Clearly meant to bring some levity to a dark and intense season, she and the Travelers remain mysterious even after participating in the battle against the replicators.

Most of her interest lies in her relationship with Sheppard. Sheppard, who, in the history of the show, has actually been shown as interested in few women, really only Chaya, who he seemed to have an immediate connection with through the Ancient gene, and Teer, who he spent six months with, has always been described (by McKay, anyway) as the charming Fly Boy, attractive to women (and, I think, the female viewers will verify that). Larrin, however, shows no attraction to him.

In Travelers, which was played for humor, Larrin has him tortured, threatens him and flirts with him to get what she wants. Then she turns away and becomes a no-nonsense leader.

In BAMSR, the usually confident Sheppard is off balance around her, seeming to be wary of her, confused by her and attracted to her all at the same time. JF’s portrayal of this bewildered Sheppard is absolutely inspired. His expressions are classic and fun to watch. The transformation in Sheppard as soon as he becomes aware of Larrin is comical. At the end of BAMSR, as he is leaving Larrin, he asks for a way to contact her ‘for professional reasons;’ she essentially answers, don’t call me, I’ll call you.

Jill Wagner makes an effective over-the-top, enigmatic Larrin, capable of drawing the wrath of every Sheppard shipper in fandom. It seems she would be a character for adolescent boys, but I find Larrin and the role reversal she represents, intriguing. This is a relationship I look forward to seeing again multiple times in season 5 (If not again in S4).

Best line Larrin to Sheppard: ‘Oh, nothing for you to concern your pretty little head with.’ :P

MIZA
January 15th, 2008, 01:06 PM
she needs to go away and never come back

s09119
January 15th, 2008, 02:16 PM
she needs to go away and never come back

Why? I agree with blue-skyz; she acts as a person who knows what effect she has on men (who are usually the ones with power in human societies), and uses that effect to get what she wants. I'm quite impressed with Larrin thus far.

jenks
January 15th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Her interactions with Sheppard are totally unbelievable, one minute she's this bad ass and then the next she's like a 12 year old girl. No human beings actually act like that unless they've got a serious mental condition.

Lythisrose
January 15th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Her interactions with Sheppard are totally unbelievable, one minute she's this bad ass and then the next she's like a 12 year old girl. No human beings actually act like that unless they've got a serious mental condition.

Maybe she's supposed to be a bit unbalanced.... there might not be any good psychologists on those Traveler ships. :(

Opener
January 16th, 2008, 12:07 AM
Her interactions with Sheppard are totally unbelievable, one minute she's this bad ass and then the next she's like a 12 year old girl. No human beings actually act like that unless they've got a serious mental condition.
Oh, and someone from another galaxy who's under constant threat of death from life-sucking aliens is supposed to act like someone from Earth?

blue-skyz, I agree with absolutely everything you said. Larrin's different from every other female we've seen on SGA, and in a very good way. Whether or not she gets with Sheppard in the end, she's a very good counterpoint to him, and as such I'd love to see more of her. Hell, even if she gets with him, she'll still be her own person, and I'm pleased the writers have written her as such thus far.

The pretty little head line was gold, too. Almost like he's the stay-at-home, and she's the adventurer.

FallenAngelII
January 16th, 2008, 08:13 AM
Why? I agree with blue-skyz; she acts as a person who knows what effect she has on men (who are usually the ones with power in human societies), and uses that effect to get what she wants. I'm quite impressed with Larrin thus far.
It's not just the way she acts (which would be a pretty bad way considering she's, you know, a leader to her people). It's also the way John acts around her and in response to her.

stclare
January 16th, 2008, 09:30 AM
I would much rather see the so called leader/captain whatever of her people be someone i could respect and believe in. not end up rolling my eyes at the screen everytime she opens her mouth.

she maybe light relief but that felt to me like it sucked out some of the tension that had been built up during the ep.

travellers was a comic relief ep? for me one is more than enough.

Dobberman
January 16th, 2008, 02:43 PM
One thing that bugs me about story arcs (not that I don't like them generally) is that bad episodes become 'required viewing' for the plot. Imo Travellers was rather dull and Larrin's character wasn't particularly interesting to me. But the episode is crucial for the mid-season two parter so you have to watch it to understand what's going on because Larrin, of course, returns. Granted if your a fan and you watch them as they air and its not a problem generally, but if you're introducing someone to the show and they wanna get up to speed quickly you can point out key episodes that they should watch, and making them watch bad episodes can put them off the show itself... though of course they might not think its bad, but sometimes bad is bad to the majority, or at least not great.

jenks
January 16th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Oh, and someone from another galaxy who's under constant threat of death from life-sucking aliens is supposed to act like someone from Earth?



Did anyone say that?

Opener
January 16th, 2008, 06:27 PM
I thought that it was implied in what Jenks said. Besides, all we have to go on for saying how someone should logically react to something is our own experiences, and we didn't grow up on starships, nor were we under threat from an alien race.

jenks
January 16th, 2008, 06:43 PM
I am jenks. I never said act like someone from Earth, I said act like a human being. Her reactions to being in control (badass) and not (12 year old girl) are so exaggerated that she just isn't believable as a character, not unless there's something wrong with her.

blue-skyz
January 17th, 2008, 04:34 AM
Whatever the Travelers are, whatever Larrin is, Sheppard has to deal with them. They have technology that he has never seen before and they have knowledge about Pegasus. The travelers can be allies in the fight against the Wraith. They are an enigma. We/Sheppard/Atlantis doesn’t really understand their motivation for joining the fight against the replicators, but they did and a continuing alliance with them is in their best interest.

It falls to Sheppard to maintain and develop the alliance with the Travelers and, for now, that means getting along with Larrin. But Larrin is playing him. My guess is he knows that she is playing him; he just isn’t sure why or how to handle her. She may be attractive, but he’s not stupid and he’s not Kirk. He is treading a mine field where she’s concerned. He doesn’t understand her motivation; he doesn’t understand much of anything about her. He clearly has the good sense to be wary (afraid) of her. It is Sheppard’s uncertainty and confusion warring with his usual self confidence (cockiness?) and the imperative of the situation that keeps him off balance and gives his reactions to Larrin so much texture and humor. Where others see him acting juvenilely, I see him acting entirely appropriately for the situation and his history with Larrin (this is being (over) played for humor). He is reacting to Larrin’s illogical actions. Sheppard has not acted inappropriately or unprofessionally around her, (except, maybe, for the kiss, but that’s a subject for another place)

The depiction of the Travelers, undeniably, has flaws, but, I think, which are bothersome is dependent on the viewer’s perspective. Larrin is so over the top that it has to be intentional. We don’t know her. I think she has to be accepted for now and trust/hope TPTB add more balance to her character next season.

So… I’m curious. I’m intrigued. I have no idea where TPTB are taking the Travelers. I hope we learn more about them and I hope that they play a significant role in S5. And, yes, that means I want to learn more about and see more of Larrin, especially, Sheppard trying to figure out how to deal with her. JF plays it so well. ;)