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stevearm07
January 8th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Ok, I enjoyed Be All My Sins Remember'd. It was an action packed episode with lots of explosions and I enjoy those. Fine, but that's about it.

I am however getting F-ING SICK AND TIRED of the amount of technobabble every single week on Atlantis. It seems to be getting worse and worse these past two years from episode to episode.

The amount of deus ex machina and wonderful Ancient tech mixed in with corny convenient plot elements was getting ridiculous by the end of the episode. It was laughable. In fact a friend of mine who's into SG but not hugely serious about it just ended up laughing by the end at just how much of a joke the "WRITING" was.

Of course I know the reason for all this. The Stargate writers can't write a clever well thought out plot, simple as that. To them,

a good episode = explosions + a 'dramatic' twist + lots of technobabble + last second beam out by an Earth ship.

Which is fine, Stargate is a bit of a superficial 'fun' show and that's cool, but regardless... please, writers.. use your brains for once instead of having McKay come up with his latest 'plan' or 'Ancient technology' every week.

Argosy
January 8th, 2008, 04:53 PM
Naw, you just donít understand ďthis bond is occurring on a subspace levelĒ. LOL

stevearm07
January 8th, 2008, 04:56 PM
Naw, you just donít understand ďthis bond is occurring on a subspace levelĒ. LOL

LOL sorry my mistake!

Remember back when there was none of this cheap writing and techy storytelling. It was GOOD storytelling back in the day when Stargate was actually good, ie. SG-1 seasons 1-6

Mefusta
January 8th, 2008, 05:07 PM
It's sci-fi. Science fiction invariably means technobabble. Just be glad it's nowhere near as bad as Next Generation's technobabble saturation, but at the same time nowhere near as good as Galactica's almost total absence of it. Atlantis runs a nice middle-ground, just enough to get by without overdoing it.

stevearm07
January 8th, 2008, 05:27 PM
It's sci-fi. Science fiction invariably means technobabble. Just be glad it's nowhere near as bad as Next Generation's technobabble saturation, but at the same time nowhere near as good as Galactica's almost total absence of it. Atlantis runs a nice middle-ground, just enough to get by without overdoing it.

I disagree completely. Season 1 didn't have technobabble. SG-1 seasons 1-6 didn't have technobabble.

Can you honestly say that the levels of technobabble in this ep wasn't going overboard? It's all to do with lazy writing, or writers who can't write any better. I suspect it's the latter.

Jeeze I mean I knew this forum was a SG wankfest but come on, surely some of you can see my point.

jenks
January 8th, 2008, 05:33 PM
I disagree completely. Season 1 didn't have technobabble. SG-1 seasons 1-6 didn't have technobabble.

Can you honestly say that the levels of technobabble in this ep wasn't going overboard? It's all to do with lazy writing, or writers who can't write any better. I suspect it's the latter.

Jeeze I mean I knew this forum was a SG wankfest but come on, surely some of you can see my point.

Huh? Yes they did, and a lot of it. You seem to have selective hearing.

AGateFan
January 8th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Welcome to scifi where technobable abounds. There was plenty in S1 and all seasons of Stargate. The main difference (it seems to me) is the amount of otherworldly gagets they have to play with. The amount of supertech we now have is laughable especially considering their pension of "losing" it or just flat out plotholing it from week to week. Its kind of like the Die Hard movies are getting. So over the top that you have to laugh but yet somehow still entertaining (at least I find Atlantis still entertaining...no where near how entertaining I found early Classic Stargate SG-1 but much better then later drek they called Stargate SG-1 or BSG.... so far)

ToasterOnFire
January 8th, 2008, 05:38 PM
While I have come to expect a certain level of technobabble and exposition from this series, I did think that BAMSR had too much of it, particularly in the meetings. As SGA goes on I find myself tuning out Rodney's scientific explanations and ideas more and more - I'd have to think for a while to remember anything scientific he said in BAMSR. I guess that stuff just doesn't interest me as much as character moments and action. I prefer showing, not just telling. That was my major hangup with the Asuran/Wraith war - it was predominantly the latter.

stevearm07
January 8th, 2008, 06:22 PM
Huh? Yes they did, and a lot of it. You seem to have selective hearing.

No where near the pathetic levels we're at now.


Welcome to scifi where technobable abounds. There was plenty in S1 and all seasons of Stargate. The main difference (it seems to me) is the amount of otherworldly gagets they have to play with. The amount of supertech we now have is laughable especially considering their pension of "losing" it or just flat out plotholing it from week to week. Its kind of like the Die Hard movies are getting. So over the top that you have to laugh but yet somehow still entertaining (at least I find Atlantis still entertaining...no where near how entertaining I found early Classic Stargate SG-1 but much better then later drek they called Stargate SG-1 or BSG.... so far)

Exactly. I wouldn't mind a bit of technobabble but the supertech they keep discovering then losing week by week is getting stupid and once against smacks of lazy writers who can't write anything better or more clever.

starfox
January 8th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Ok, I enjoyed Be All My Sins Remember'd. It was an action packed episode with lots of explosions and I enjoy those. Fine, but that's about it.

I am however getting F-ING SICK AND TIRED of the amount of technobabble every single week on Atlantis. It seems to be getting worse and worse these past two years from episode to episode.

The amount of deus ex machina and wonderful Ancient tech mixed in with corny convenient plot elements was getting ridiculous by the end of the episode. It was laughable. In fact a friend of mine who's into SG but not hugely serious about it just ended up laughing by the end at just how much of a joke the "WRITING" was.

Of course I know the reason for all this. The Stargate writers can't write a clever well thought out plot, simple as that. To them,

a good episode = explosions + a 'dramatic' twist + lots of technobabble + last second beam out by an Earth ship.

Which is fine, Stargate is a bit of a superficial 'fun' show and that's cool, but regardless... please, writers.. use your brains for once instead of having McKay come up with his latest 'plan' or 'Ancient technology' every week.


a) There's no reason to attack the writers. Let's see you do something better. There's research required to make this stuff sound even halfway plausible, as well as to make sure it keeps with the mythology of the show. Just 'cause you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't good; it just isn't to your taste. Which brings me to

b) If you don't like technobabble, perhaps science fiction isn't the genre for you.

PG15
January 8th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Actually, I rather liked the technobabble in this episode (but then, I am a Trek fan). Everything after the subspace stuff makes perfect scientific sense as far as I can remember. If the attractive force of the nanites can increase without bounds as long as nanites kept going into it, then it can theoretically overcome the degenerate pressures of electrons, then neutrons, eventually resulting in a singularity.

I've almost always understood the technobabble of Stargate (vs. Star Trek, where I didn't understand at all most of the time), and I always saw how it can realistically lead to the plot being resolved. I mean, I'm sure everyone can understand how a shockwave can provide a force that can compress the blob. On Trek, it's usually a whole string of nonsense followed by the solution. That...doesn't work as well.

stevearm07
January 8th, 2008, 08:33 PM
I groaned when they mentioned the new "super kewl" Asguard beam weapons that conveniently turn up the episode they're required and can destroy a replicator ship with a few shots.

First it was the tablet that could locate all the Replicator ships one week, and now this.

Then there was the de-Wraith poison, the anti-Replicator 'forcefield', the hyperdrived Puddle jumper, the replicator maker/workstation, the underwater power-station etc etc etc...

All convenient episodic deux ex machinas that the writers think can make up for their inept ability to tell a good story without having the Daedalus beam the team up at the last second, or yet another 'allience with the enemy' or 'hunt for the incredible Ancient weapon'.

In fact those things I mentioned were mostly from this year on Atlantis, I won't go into all the amazing but convenient Ancient devices that surfaced every episode in the latter seasons of Stagate.

PG15
January 8th, 2008, 08:36 PM
But surely you don't expect the show to stay stagnant in its technology?

kymeric
January 8th, 2008, 09:50 PM
Ok, I enjoyed Be All My Sins Remember'd. It was an action packed episode with lots of explosions and I enjoy those. Fine, but that's about it.

I am however getting F-ING SICK AND TIRED of the amount of technobabble every single week on Atlantis. It seems to be getting worse and worse these past two years from episode to episode.

The amount of deus ex machina and wonderful Ancient tech mixed in with corny convenient plot elements was getting ridiculous by the end of the episode. It was laughable. In fact a friend of mine who's into SG but not hugely serious about it just ended up laughing by the end at just how much of a joke the "WRITING" was.

Of course I know the reason for all this. The Stargate writers can't write a clever well thought out plot, simple as that. To them,

a good episode = explosions + a 'dramatic' twist + lots of technobabble + last second beam out by an Earth ship.

Which is fine, Stargate is a bit of a superficial 'fun' show and that's cool, but regardless... please, writers.. use your brains for once instead of having McKay come up with his latest 'plan' or 'Ancient technology' every week.


Dont watch reruns of startrek the next generation, youll have a seizure then. There its always tech something tachyon other. Its a staple of the scifi genre, and its not like its a new thing. Maybe they should replace it with BSG style sex and hallucinating presidents?

jelgate
January 8th, 2008, 09:58 PM
Dont watch reruns of startrek the next generation, youll have a seizure then.?* There its always tech something tachyon other.?* Its a staple of the scifi genre, and its not like its a new thing.?* Maybe they should replace it with BSG style sex and hallucinating presidents?I know your joking but that would be a bad idea. There is a reason that BSG only lasted four season. Almost every scifi show has some form of technobable. At least I can understand it to a special degree. TNG was a lot worse and had way too much technobable.

Lythisrose
January 8th, 2008, 10:29 PM
Almost every scifi show has some form of technobable. At least I can understand it to a special degree.

If I didn't like the technobabbly stuff at least a little I wouldn't be watching SciFi and SGA in the first place. I'd be off to the soap opera station (if there is one). :)

jelgate
January 8th, 2008, 10:49 PM
If I didn't like the technobabbly stuff at least a little I wouldn't be watching SciFi and SGA in the first place. I'd be off to the soap opera station (if there is one). :):indeed: Technobable is an element of most SciFi shows. At least I can follow the technobable in SGA compared to other SciFi shows.?* FYI, there is soap opera channal

Avenger
January 8th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Atlantis has been about technology from day one. Rodney has spoken plenty of techobabble from the moment he was introduced as a character on SG-1. Frankly, given those two things technobabble is to be expected. What was said in BAMSR was not complicated in any way, IMO. I'm don't claim to be any kind of scientist, but I had no trouble understanding what was going on.

If you don't like it, go watch something else.

from_orion
January 9th, 2008, 12:21 AM
Atlantis has been about technology from day one. Rodney has spoken plenty of techobabble from the moment he was introduced as a character on SG-1. Frankly, given those two things technobabble is to be expected. What was said in BAMSR was not complicated in any way, IMO. I'm don't claim to be any kind of scientist, but I had no trouble understanding what was going on.

If you don't like it, go watch something else.
Exactly... It's one of the reasons I love the show.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 03:14 AM
I didn't expect anything other than a love in in this total wankfest of a Stargate forum but hey.


But surely you don't expect the show to stay stagnant in its technology?

The problem is that they seem to be conveniently coming up with new technology at a remarkable rate, almost every week. The replicator ship locator last week, the Asguard beam weapon and the Replicator-maker this week. A new 304 ship whenever the story needs one. It's lazy writing.


Dont watch reruns of startrek the next generation, youll have a seizure then. There its always tech something tachyon other. Its a staple of the scifi genre, and its not like its a new thing. Maybe they should replace it with BSG style sex and hallucinating presidents?

The difference is, Star Trek TNG was a hundred times better written than SG. Stargate on the other hand always makes me think the show is run by an amateur production team. The sorts of people who think that 'fun' episodes like 200 and Bad Guys were a 'cool' thing to write.

My problem with the technobabble is that you don't need it to tell a good story. BSG doesn't have any for instance. Again, it's all down to lazy writing, with writers who can't do any better than a) come up with far-fetched theories to offset their own inadequacies and b) introduce "kewl" new tech every week, conveniently plot holled for that particular episode but then forgotten about.

HyperspaceDaemon
January 9th, 2008, 03:20 AM
This "technobable" is present in many SF shows/movies. The problems come when the technobabble becomes too convenient and predictable. Please don't throw rocks at me, but I prefer Startrek's technobabble to the one in SGA.

SG1 is not free of convenient technobabble : at some point it became truly boring that Sam repaired ships,shields,anything with the same identical,old technique "switch colourful crystals" .

The most irritating thing about SGA's technobabble is that the items/technologies very rarely appear again in future episodes.

Also, I dislike the lack of consistency : the humans are supposed to have limited knowledge about the advanced lantean technology. Yet, every time McKay is able to magically use or make it work . Always in the last minute . But it will work only once : the device is destroyed, stolen, or labeled "too dangerous to be used again" .

The most recent example: they've managed to create Fran - a fully functional , well programmed for her purpose , stable and trusted replicator !

From now on it is possible to have such a new replicator built in every season for accomplishing different tasks. But this will never happen : it will be "too dangerous" to use the nanites building table again, even if the whole plan of "be all my sins remembered" depended on the ability to trust Fran !

The writers are denying us countless of interesting plots by limiting the newly found devices/tehnologies to only one occurence .

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 03:24 AM
This "technobable" is present in many SF shows/movies. The problems come when the technobabble becomes too convenient and predictable. Please don't throw rocks at me, but I prefer Startrek's technobabble to the one in SGA.

SG1 is not free of convenient technobabble : at some point it became truly boring that Sam repaired ships,shields,anything with the same identical,old technique "switch colourful crystals" .

The most irritating thing about SGA's technobabble is that the items/technologies very rarely appear again in future episodes.

Also, I dislike the lack of consistency : the humans are supposed to have limited knowledge about the advanced lantean technology. Yet, every time McKay is able to magically use or make it work . Always in the last minute . But it will work only once : the device is destroyed, stolen, or labeled "too dangerous to be used again" .

The most recent example: they've managed to create Fran - a fully functional , well programmed for her purpose , stable and trusted replicator !

From now on it is possible to have such a new replicator built in every season for accomplishing different tasks. But this will never happen : it will be "too dangerous" to use the nanites building table again, even if the whole plan of "be all my sins remembered" depended on the ability to trust Fran !

The writers are denying us countless of interesting plots by limiting the newly found devices/tehnologies to only one occurence .

Exactly right. Again it's showing their ineptitude at good storytelling, to have this wonderful new tech delivered to our door conveniently just in time for the episode it's most needed... then disappear forever.

Until the next episode comes around and another new gizmo is discovered used.

jenks
January 9th, 2008, 03:37 AM
Exactly right. Again it's showing their ineptitude at good storytelling, to have this wonderful new tech delivered to our door conveniently just in time for the episode it's most needed... then disappear forever.

Until the next episode comes around and another new gizmo is discovered used.

Why is it that the new technology is most needed now? We found out about the Asurans wiping out human worlds in the Seer.

beale947
January 9th, 2008, 03:53 AM
Techonobabble is part of sci-fi in general. I understand technobabble (nearly always :p) and what rodney wanted to do and said amkes perfect sense, and was an ingenious plan. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean its rubbish. Technobabble is good in (futuristic)sci-fi because our physics doesn't work like that.



I didn't expect anything other than a love in in this total wankfest of a Stargate forum but hey.


What were you expecting? It's a stargate forum or did you not understand this simple thing either. It would explain alot about this thread and you're opinions.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 03:58 AM
Why is it that the new technology is most needed now? We found out about the Asurans wiping out human worlds in the Seer.

Is that supposed to be an argument against the lazy writing and the fact that miraculous wonderful tech seems to appear every episode?

The 'beam weapons' that can destroy a ship in seconds was the last straw for me. Although later that same episode we were treated to the 'Replicator-maker'. I wonder what tech will be introduced next week...




What were you expecting? It's a stargate forum or did you not understand this simple thing either. It would explain alot about this thread and you're opinions.

Most forums can be objective, with fans realising when the quality dips or when things about the show just aren't right.

This forum, is filled with people who would never say a bad word about the show, and look to make excuses for the writers and producers at every opportunity. Although given how ratings have plummetted, I wouldn't be surprised if the people on here are the only SG fans left.

g.o.d
January 9th, 2008, 03:59 AM
Ok, I enjoyed Be All My Sins Remember'd. It was an action packed episode with lots of explosions and I enjoy those. Fine, but that's about it.

I am however getting F-ING SICK AND TIRED of the amount of technobabble every single week on Atlantis. It seems to be getting worse and worse these past two years from episode to episode.

The amount of deus ex machina and wonderful Ancient tech mixed in with corny convenient plot elements was getting ridiculous by the end of the episode. It was laughable. In fact a friend of mine who's into SG but not hugely serious about it just ended up laughing by the end at just how much of a joke the "WRITING" was.

Of course I know the reason for all this. The Stargate writers can't write a clever well thought out plot, simple as that. To them,

a good episode = explosions + a 'dramatic' twist + lots of technobabble + last second beam out by an Earth ship.

Which is fine, Stargate is a bit of a superficial 'fun' show and that's cool, but regardless... please, writers.. use your brains for once instead of having McKay come up with his latest 'plan' or 'Ancient technology' every week.


I completely agree with you. Writing is getting worse and worse. But it's SG-1's problem too. Have you seen AoT? Another miracolous device which saves us all :rolleyes:

beale947
January 9th, 2008, 04:08 AM
Is that supposed to be an argument against the lazy writing and the fact that miraculous wonderful tech seems to appear every episode?

The 'beam weapons' that can destroy a ship in seconds was the last straw for me. Although later that same episode we were treated to the 'Replicator-maker'. I wonder what tech will be introduced next week...

These were brought in in SG-1's 'Unending'. They were used then to destroy an Ori ship, are you complaining about that as well???
Steve, you write a stargate series then. All this complaining about the writers is not needed as you couldn't do much better.




Most forums can be objective, with fans realising when the quality dips or when things about the show just aren't right.

This forum, is filled with people who would never say a bad word about the show, and look to make excuses for the writers and producers at every opportunity. Although given how ratings have plummetted, I wouldn't be surprised if the people on here are the only SG fans left.

Have you not seen the 'Anti' threads and the 'Antiers' on this forum. Just because people don't go 'OMG did you see that!!! This is rubbish, did you see that (insert scifi thing). Thats rubbish you can't do that in real life!' or scream plothole at every little thing doesn't mean this forum isn't objective The show is good, and to be hosnest, you are saying this on a stargate forum. You won't win, and even if we are the last sg fans left. (LOL....yeah right....Try several million fans more.) stargate is a great show, and if you don't like it. Don't watch it, its that simple...

jenks
January 9th, 2008, 04:18 AM
Is that supposed to be an argument against the lazy writing and the fact that miraculous wonderful tech seems to appear every episode?

No I was pointing out the flaws in your argument.


The 'beam weapons' that can destroy a ship in seconds was the last straw for me. Although later that same episode we were treated to the 'Replicator-maker'. I wonder what tech will be introduced next week...

It would have been more retarded had we not got them after the events of Unending.


Most forums can be objective, with fans realising when the quality dips or when things about the show just aren't right.

How can you be objective about something that entirely subjective? I for one think this is by far the best season of Atlantis, far more character development, drama and action and far less cheese.


This forum, is filled with people who would never say a bad word about the show, and look to make excuses for the writers and producers at every opportunity. Although given how ratings have plummetted, I wouldn't be surprised if the people on here are the only SG fans left.

You obviously haven't been reading very carefully, this forum is filled with people who having nothing but bad things to say about the show. There seems to be a hell of a lot of people like you on these forums actually, highlighting problems in the show that have existed in every season of the show, and have been a hell of a lot more prominent too. Unsurprisingly 9 out of 10 of them seem to be Weir or Beckett fans, coincidence? I think not.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 04:50 AM
I completely agree with you. Writing is getting worse and worse. But it's SG-1's problem too. Have you seen AoT? Another miracolous device which saves us all :rolleyes:

Oh god I'd forgotten about that. The Arc of Truth. Yet another miraculous Ancient device brought in by the writers. Groan.


These were brought in in SG-1's 'Unending'. They were used then to destroy an Ori ship, are you complaining about that as well???

Yes I am complaining about that. YET ANOTHER bit of tech we conveniently get in an episode that makes the writer's jobs easier. Unending was a pathetic, depressing, garbage episode that had no right to be a series finale.



All this complaining about the writers is not needed as you couldn't do much better.


How do you know?


No I was pointing out the flaws in your argument.

Seriously, how old are you?


It would have been more retarded had we not got them after the events of Unending.

Unending itself was a retarded episode. We should never have 'got them' in the first place!



How can you be objective about something that entirely subjective? I for one think this is by far the best season of Atlantis, far more character development, drama and action and far less cheese.

How much character development was there in this episode exactly? I liked the episode, but it still highlighted Stargate's problems in a huge way.


You obviously haven't been reading very carefully, this forum is filled with people who having nothing but bad things to say about the show. There seems to be a hell of a lot of people like you on these forums actually, highlighting problems in the show that have existed in every season of the show, and have been a hell of a lot more prominent too. Unsurprisingly 9 out of 10 of them seem to be Weir or Beckett fans, coincidence? I think not.

Oh please. This forum is filled with gushers like PG15 and yourself.

Naonak
January 9th, 2008, 05:37 AM
I groaned when they mentioned the new "super kewl" Asguard beam weapons that conveniently turn up the episode they're required and can destroy a replicator ship with a few shots.
I'm sure they would have been useful back in "Lifeline", too.


Then there was the de-Wraith poison, the anti-Replicator 'forcefield', the hyperdrived Puddle jumper, the replicator maker/workstation, the underwater power-station etc etc etc...

All convenient episodic deux ex machinas that the writers think can make up for their inept ability to tell a good story without having the Daedalus beam the team up at the last second, or yet another 'allience with the enemy' or 'hunt for the incredible Ancient weapon'.
Those aren't deus ex machinas. A deus ex machina is something that turns up with no prior mention or even a hint and solves the problem easily.

The Wraith retrovirus definitely isn't. Scientifically suspect, sure, but it's no deus ex machina.
I'm fairly certain that Rodney mentioned that he had figured out how to give a Jumper a hyperdrive back in "Tao of Rodney". They needed it in "Adrift/Lifeline", so they went back to it.
The Replicator builder was a little convenient, sure, and hasn't been mentioned, but it makes total sense that it would exist.
And that underwater energy platform had an entire episode about them finding and exploring it...


I didn't expect anything other than a love in in this total wankfest of a Stargate forum but hey.
:rolleyes:

Oh please. This forum is filled with gushers like PG15 and yourself.
Keep the discussion to the shows, man.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 05:53 AM
Those aren't deus ex machinas. A deus ex machina is something that turns up with no prior mention or even a hint and solves the problem easily.

Ummm, yes... and the Asguard beam weapons, the anti-Replicator 'forcefield', the hyperdrived Puddle jumper, the replicator maker/workstation, the Arc of Truth etc etc etc didn't just turn up one episode and solve the problems?

Fine Rodney mentioned in passing about the hyperdrive puddle jumper earlier on, but it was still brought in one episode as a means of compensating for the writer's inept writing.

And don't even get me started on all the deus ex machina's in SG-1's later seasons!!

Darien
January 9th, 2008, 05:59 AM
Ok, I enjoyed Be All My Sins Remember'd. It was an action packed episode with lots of explosions and I enjoy those. Fine, but that's about it.

I am however getting F-ING SICK AND TIRED of the amount of technobabble every single week on Atlantis. It seems to be getting worse and worse these past two years from episode to episode.

The amount of deus ex machina and wonderful Ancient tech mixed in with corny convenient plot elements was getting ridiculous by the end of the episode. It was laughable. In fact a friend of mine who's into SG but not hugely serious about it just ended up laughing by the end at just how much of a joke the "WRITING" was.

Of course I know the reason for all this. The Stargate writers can't write a clever well thought out plot, simple as that. To them,

a good episode = explosions + a 'dramatic' twist + lots of technobabble + last second beam out by an Earth ship.

Which is fine, Stargate is a bit of a superficial 'fun' show and that's cool, but regardless... please, writers.. use your brains for once instead of having McKay come up with his latest 'plan' or 'Ancient technology' every week.

Oh my... So you're basically saying that every time the writers introduce a new type of technology it's lazy writing. :S

Hello... this is sci-fi. You know SCIENCE-FICTION.

But I totally respect your opinion I just don't understand why do you keep watching it if its so bad. I mean I hate soap operas so I don't watch them. It's simple as that.

jenks
January 9th, 2008, 06:17 AM
Seriously, how old are you?

[...]


Oh please. This forum is filled with gushers like PG15 and yourself.

When irony... strikes.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 06:18 AM
Oh my... So you're basically saying that every time the writers introduce a new type of technology it's lazy writing. :S

If you haven't understood my point from reading this thread, then I can't help you.

The writer's aren't very good, it's as simple as that. After 12 years of writing scripts, it's hardly surprising. Ratings are lowering every season, storylines are getting rehashed.

My point was... the amount of miraculous new technology that conveniently pops up every episode that solves all the team's problems makes writing easy. But in the end it's lazy writing.

Why create a new set of bad guys (the Ori) and deal with the problem through our own understanding of the universe and initiative... when we can find this magical device called The Arc of truth that can do whatever the writer's want it to do and solve the galaxy's problems.

And for 'Arc of truth', feel free to replace it with: Merlin's device, the Clavia Thesorus Infinatum, the weapon on Dakara, the Ancient outpost in Antarctica, the eye of Ra, the invisibility tech, the anti-prior tech, the asguard beam weapons, the asgard shields, the hyperspace puddle jumper, the Replicator-maker, time travel puddle jumper blah blah blah.... all convenient plot devices to make the writer's lives easier.

Remember when Stargate used to be good? Back in seasons 1-6 and the team would go out exploring, using their own knowledge and abilities to solve problems. The odd cargo ship here, the odd Tok'ra help there, but in the end, good storytelling.

Not this garbage filled with eps like 200, Unending, Bad Guys, and wankfests like BAMSR which had pretty explosions but not much substance.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 06:19 AM
When irony... strikes.

You might want to read this (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&defl=en&q=define:irony&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)

jenks
January 9th, 2008, 06:25 AM
You might want to read this (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&defl=en&q=define:irony&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)

What for? I have a firm grasp of what irony is. Like someone trying to imply someone else is childish and acting glaringly so himself in the process. Retarded would probably have been more fitting, but it's ironic too.

Naonak
January 9th, 2008, 06:26 AM
Ummm, yes... and the Asguard beam weapons, the anti-Replicator 'forcefield', the hyperdrived Puddle jumper, the replicator maker/workstation, the Arc of Truth etc etc etc didn't just turn up one episode and solve the problems?

Fine Rodney mentioned in passing about the hyperdrive puddle jumper earlier on, but it was still brought in one episode as a means of compensating for the writer's inept writing.

And don't even get me started on all the deus ex machina's in SG-1's later seasons!!
Rodney created the anti-Replicator shield. It didn't just turn up. And, again, it makes sense: it's well established that shields can be modified to do other stuff. Actually, it's kind of similar to what they did in "The Return".

I just can't see how the Jumper was "compensating" for anything. It's been established, they're in a situation that needs it... why the hell not use it?

The ArK of Truth, maybe, but SG-1 still have to go and find it. Same goes for the Sangraal.

Naonak
January 9th, 2008, 06:37 AM
And for 'Arc of truth', feel free to replace it with:

Merlin's device
What? The phase-shifty thing didn't really solve much, and they had to find, build and use the Sangraal.

the Clavia Thesorus Infinatum
They haven't even found that - it might not be any more than expensive junk.

the weapon on Dakara
Yeah, I'll give you that.

the Ancient outpost in Antarctica
They spent a year looking for Atlantis, and the outpost was what was left.

the eye of Ra
Yeah, that solved a lot of problems...

the invisibility tech
Uh...

the anti-prior tech
Carter and Dr Lee made that, and Cam nearly got Force-choked trying to get it to work.

the asgard shields
Oh no, our allies helped us with stuff!
Decent shields are useful, but they hardly solve all our problems.

time travel puddle jumper
How did that help?

Darien
January 9th, 2008, 07:08 AM
If you haven't understood my point from reading this thread, then I can't help you.
Thanks, but I understood your point.


The writer's aren't very good, it's as simple as that. After 12 years of writing scripts, it's hardly surprising. Ratings are lowering every season, storylines are getting rehashed.Judging the writers' abilities is a subjective thing. While I agree that there has been some bad eps and meaningless filler plots I belive TPTB still have some very good ideas and I for my part am more or less satisfied with the latter seasons. The ratings issue has nothing to do with the general quality of the show, every show is suffering from it and sg is still the 3rd-4th best on sci-fi. BSG produced even worse ratings figures.


My point was... the amount of miraculous new technology that conveniently pops up every episode that solves all the team's problems makes writing easy. But in the end it's lazy writing.
Bold statement.


Why create a new set of bad guys (the Ori) and deal with the problem through our own understanding of the universe and initiative... when we can find this magical device called The Arc of truth that can do whatever the writer's want it to do and solve the galaxy's problems.
In case you didn't know sg1 got cancelled so they had to rush the conclusion of the Ori arc. I don't say I like how they did it, this ark of truth thing was a bit fishy but I don't think this was their intention in the first place.


And for 'Arc of truth', feel free to replace it with: Merlin's device, the Clavia Thesorus Infinatum, the weapon on Dakara, the Ancient outpost in Antarctica, the eye of Ra, the invisibility tech, the anti-prior tech, the asguard beam weapons, the asgard shields, the hyperspace puddle jumper, the Replicator-maker, time travel puddle jumper blah blah blah.... all convenient plot devices to make the writer's lives easier.
You know fighting a technologically advanced enemy is only possible with good tactics lots of luck and some advanced tech. By the way, the first and foremost goal of sg1's mission was to acquire technology that could help defend Earth from the Goa'uld threat. They've walked through that damn gate to get some advanced tech and to create alliances in the first place. There has been too much of the deus ex machina solutions I agree but not nearly as much as you're saying. BTW they've never found the Clava Thesorus Infinitum (sp?) we have no idea what that is.


Remember when Stargate used to be good? Back in seasons 1-6 and the team would go out exploring, using their own knowledge and abilities to solve problems. The odd cargo ship here, the odd Tok'ra help there, but in the end, good storytelling.
You know what I'm really getting tired of? This overmythicised "good-ol-days" mania. There were plenty of good eps in the first few seasons and plenty of garbage just like nowadays. It's not like everything was fine back then. I for my part wouldn't like to see 70-year-old O'neill walk through the gate every friday to meet the "this week's pre-industrial/medieval/antique society (let them be sumerians this time! - woot woot)". I want change, development - both character and technological.


Not this garbage filled with eps like 200, Unending, Bad Guys, and wankfests like BAMSR which had pretty explosions but not much substance.
200 was garbage I agree but Unending and especially BAMSR were great eps but this is subjective again.

So while I disagree with you on most points as I've previously said I respect your opinion. I just don' understand why you keep watching a garbage show.

P-90_177
January 9th, 2008, 08:00 AM
200 was garbage I agree

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/paulscott_90/motivator817132.jpg

jdbond
January 9th, 2008, 08:57 AM
I understand what stevearm07 is saying. Too much techno-babble for a sci-fi series which for some weird reason attracts people with no understanding of science. May be they should dumb it down so that stevearm07 can feel at home;). Afterall who wants techno-babble in a sci-fi show! There is another suggestion for you stevearm07, quit watching if you are so appalled by the quality of writing or this is one of those love-hate relationships?

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 09:31 AM
I understand what stevearm07 is saying. Too much techno-babble for a sci-fi series which for some weird reason attracts people with no understanding of science. May be they should dumb it down so that stevearm07 can feel at home;). Afterall who wants techno-babble in a sci-fi show! There is another suggestion for you stevearm07, quit watching if you are so appalled by the quality of writing or this is one of those love-hate relationships?

When technobabble gets in the way of a good pay off/decent storytelling/realism then yes, we're better off without it. Yes Stargate is scifi, but at the same time, it's set in the present day and is primarily an action/adventure series. A certain degree of realism would be good or else it'll just turn into 'A Town called Eureka'.


Rodney created the anti-Replicator shield. It didn't just turn up.

And, again, it makes sense: it's well established that shields can be modified to do other stuff. Actually, it's kind of similar to what they did in "The Return".

Rodney creating things = things just turning up. It's the same thing. This new technology appears one episode out of the blue, and solves the teams problems.


I just can't see how the Jumper was "compensating" for anything. It's been established, they're in a situation that needs it... why the hell not use it?

It's the same problem as having ships like the Daedalus and Odyssey really. Makes writing episodes a lot easier when you can be anywhere in the galaxy, whenever you want in a few hours.


The ArK of Truth, maybe, but SG-1 still have to go and find it. Same goes for the Sangraal.

So what? It's a magical device that will solve the entire Ori problem. Introduced because the writer's are too thick to either write a decent pay off or to think of a possible solution before making these incredibly powerful bad guys.

Same with the Saangral. A magical ancient device that kills all the Ori. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz - Grow some balls writers, please.


What? The phase-shifty thing didn't really solve much, and they had to find, build and use the Sangraal.

Nice way for our characters to become invisible at the drop of a hat. More wonderful tech to make the writer's jobs easier. The joke is this series is becoming more like Wormhole X-Treme every week. A laughable parody of itself.

Oh, they had to build the Sangraal in a couple of episodes! So? It's still a magical device that saved the day once again.


Carter and Dr Lee made that,

So? I'm not only arguing against bits of tech magically turning up... it's the way they're suddenly introduced into a storyline, whenever the writer's need them. Here are these fantastic and evil priors, with amazing powers... but hey don't worry about it, because instead of the writers using their brains when creating bad guys... they'll just come up with some tech that will negate any advantage so our heroes can save the day.

Sort of like them introducing the 'gene' in Atlantis... then one episode later completely rubbishing the potential for dramatic stories by making most people magically have it with the gene therapy. Lame.


and Cam nearly got Force-choked trying to get it to work.

Oooo


Oh no, our allies helped us with stuff!
Decent shields are useful, but they hardly solve all our problems.

Beaming, decent shields, hyperdrive, beam weapons... all created to make the writer's jobs easier and to throw plausibility and human adventure out the window.


How did that help?

How did the time travel puddle jumper help? Apart from helping to create those god-awful episodes Moebius... it hepled SG-1 find a ZPM. More magical tech!

SGFerrit
January 9th, 2008, 10:10 AM
The writer's aren't very good, it's as simple as that. After 12 years of writing scripts, it's hardly surprising. Ratings are lowering every season, storylines are getting rehashed.

Ratings are down for pretty much every show. The drop between seasons 3 and 4 of Atlantis however have been considerably less significant than the drops between seasons 1 and 2, and 2 and 3. Not only that, but TMC had the highest ratings of the season, until BAMSR which is apparently even better in the ratings department. They have improved over the course of the season.


Not this garbage filled with eps like 200, Unending, Bad Guys, and wankfests like BAMSR which had pretty explosions but not much substance.

The majority see it as the best ep of the season, but, what? You have much better standards? You are more intelligent than us? You know what a good ep with substance is and we don't?


The 'beam weapons' that can destroy a ship in seconds was the last straw for me. Although later that same episode we were treated to the 'Replicator-maker'. I wonder what tech will be introduced next week...

'Kay, bye then!:)

Pharaoh Atem
January 9th, 2008, 10:11 AM
makes you glad Ronon is around cause sadly he's always the run that speaks for the fans when their are confused

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 12:51 PM
Ratings are down for pretty much every show. The drop between seasons 3 and 4 of Atlantis however have been considerably less significant than the drops between seasons 1 and 2, and 2 and 3. Not only that, but TMC had the highest ratings of the season, until BAMSR which is apparently even better in the ratings department. They have improved over the course of the season.

Even though saying that may make you feel better... Stargate has been losing viewers for many many years now. Every season the numbers/fans are getting less and less. There may be ups and downs from ep to ep but on the whole the ratings have been going down. It's one of the reasons SG-1 was cancelled and I believe Atlantis was extremely lucky to get a season 5.


The majority see it as the best ep of the season, but, what? You have much better standards? You are more intelligent than us? You know what a good ep with substance is and we don't?

I enjoyed it too. A fun episode with some cool effects, but that's about it. Nothing to challenge the mind, but it was hardly quality storytelling.

Just a typical 'tense alliance with the Wraith' mixed in with a crazy plan by Rodney that seem to be making less and less sense + a big spacebattle and a couple of sexy female characters to boost ratings among most young men + the typical SG twist at the end. Atlantis storylines have been becoming incredibly similar lately.

Chemp
January 9th, 2008, 01:03 PM
Let me tell you my point of view? .All of you who are complaining about the bad writing, the deus ex machines...why do you still watch the show?
I'll have a guess. Obviously the show is still entertaining you in some way with the characters, stories....So why complain just watch the show for what it is a fun and entertaining hour at Fridays. I'm pretty sure that if the show was bad you wouldn't be watching. And if you don't like the tehnobabble instead of complaining offer a solution maybe someone will notice it...

Oh and by the way happy new year (a bit late but better late than never)

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 01:13 PM
<snip>

I'll do what I want ok? I watch the show because I fell in love with Stargate from season 1 of SG-1 all the way to Full Circle and maybe even up till Lost City. Then the quality of SG-1 got so bad I didn't give a **** anymore. The quality post-Lost City was shocking and it really turned me off, but I still watched hoping it would get better and because a few episodes here and there I quite liked.

Atlantis I've always liked and the quality seems to be pretty decent, but it still suffers the same problems as SG-1 did later on. Rubbish writers, far past their prime and an obsession with deux ex machinas and recycled plots. But on the whole I enjoy watching Atlantis.

I complain because of how much I used to adore Stargate, hoping the quality will improve.

Sadly the direct to dvd film Continuum fills me with dread. As does the Ark of Truth, ie. "Hunt for the Incredible Ancient Device #453"

Heaven
January 9th, 2008, 01:27 PM
the thing about the technobabble in stargate is not that it's too complex.
anyone who finished high school should understand pretty much everything they're talking about.
it's just that it's always set up so that one character, the "smart one" always has to explain
things to the other characters, who are generally dumb.
and that creates tons of technobabble
whereas on other shows they just pull out some scifi term both characters
shake heads and they get on with it..


So? I'm not only arguing against bits of tech magically turning up... it's the way they're suddenly introduced into a storyline, whenever the writer's need them. Here are these fantastic and evil priors, with amazing powers... but hey don't worry about it, because instead of the writers using their brains when creating bad guys... they'll just come up with some tech that will negate any advantage so our heroes can save the day.

Sort of like them introducing the 'gene' in Atlantis... then one episode later completely rubbishing the potential for dramatic stories by making most people magically have it with the gene therapy. Lame.


I think the real problem is SG doesn't have enough technological/scifi concepts
it doesn't go much beyond ships, transporters, shields and energy weapons

so when they do introduce some new concept it's always used as a one-time
magical plot device that pops out of nowhere.

Chemp
January 9th, 2008, 01:34 PM
<snip>

The broca divided- it took them far less time to mix that cure up..than for the scientists to equip BC with beams,shields etc. Deus ex machinas. Or the puddle jumper hyperdrive.It might be an bad example but it's still true.


I complain because of how much I used to adore Stargate, hoping the quality will improve.

Sorry but complaining almost never helps


Sadly the direct to dvd film Continuum fills me with dread. As does the Ark of Truth, ie. "Hunt for the Incredible Ancient Device #453"

While I agree such devices as the one in the ark ore a bit too convenient the movie is not about the ark itself is about the journey to it. Don't you agree?

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Ok, I enjoyed Be All My Sins Remember'd. It was an action packed episode with lots of explosions and I enjoy those. Fine, but that's about it.

I am however getting<snip> SICK AND TIRED of the amount of technobabble every single week on Atlantis. It seems to be getting worse and worse these past two years from episode to episode.
I disagree. The technobable as you call it has been in Stargate since the orriginal movie. You can't have a scifi show without it due to the immense advanced technology. If it didn't make a lick of sense I might agree.


The amount of deus ex machina and wonderful Ancient tech mixed in with corny convenient plot elements was getting ridiculous by the end of the episode. It was laughable. In fact a friend of mine who's into SG but not hugely serious about it just ended up laughing by the end at just how much of a joke the "WRITING" was.
Maybey for you and your friend but not me and mine.


Of course I know the reason for all this. The Stargate writers can't write a clever well thought out plot, simple as that. To them,

a good episode = explosions + a 'dramatic' twist + lots of technobabble + last second beam out by an Earth ship.
I disagree.


Which is fine, Stargate is a bit of a superficial 'fun' show and that's cool, but regardless... please, writers.. use your brains for once instead of having McKay come up with his latest 'plan' or 'Ancient technology' every week.
They do use thier brains and if you don't want a show with technobabble stop watching scifi.

SGFerrit
January 9th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Even though saying that may make you feel better... Stargate has been losing viewers for many many years now. Every season the numbers/fans are getting less and less. There may be ups and downs from ep to ep but on the whole the ratings have been going down. It's one of the reasons SG-1 was cancelled and I believe Atlantis was extremely lucky to get a season 5.

It's already got a season 5. Shooting starts in about a month. With Atlantis' ratings up (considering when the show was renewed) and with BAMSR getting an overwhelming positive feedback (and don't forget it winning the People's Choice Award last night) I'd say it could even go further than season 5. If we get DVD movies after season 5 though, I will be happy. I think season 4 is the best yet, and it just keeps getting better. out of 11 episodes, I have only not enjoyed 1. That is a fantsatic ratio for me. And believe me, if the writing was half as bad as some people are trying to make out, I wouldn't be watching anymore. I just can't see why some people are complaining. But each to their own... (I can see why the people who liked Weir and Beckett are complaining, obviously).

talyn2k1
January 9th, 2008, 03:18 PM
I'm just wondering if any of the people complaining about new tech-of-the-week "Deus Ex Machinas" have ever watched a show called 'Star Trek: Voyager'.
This show is the absolute definition of DEM. Every time they were in a hitch they would just remodulate the deflector or emit a beam of some kind of particle tuned to a specific frequency, etc and magically that would work every time, regardless of whether they were using it against a nebula or a Borg Cube.
SG-1 and Atlantis have NEVER been that bad and I hope to god they never are. I stopped watching Voyager around S7 when the solution to every problem had something to do with Seven's nanoprobes.

Naonak nailed it with the definition of Deus Ex Machinas:


Those aren't deus ex machinas. A deus ex machina is something that turns up with no prior mention or even a hint and solves the problem easily.


Pretty much all of the things you mentioned, bar the Replicator-maker, are not DEMs, they're just using previously mentioned and/or used technology. I'll give you that the Replicator-maker was somewhat a DEM but it gave us the hottie that was Fran so I'll let them off on that one :D

At the end of the day, Stargate is scifi, and scifi means technobabble. As long as they don't get to Voyager levels of convenient technobabble, I will continue watching. As soon as the solution to every problem becomes 'nanites', I'll probably stop watching.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 04:24 PM
It's already got a season 5. Shooting starts in about a month. With Atlantis' ratings up (considering when the show was renewed) and with BAMSR getting an overwhelming positive feedback (and don't forget it winning the People's Choice Award last night) I'd say it could even go further than season 5. If we get DVD movies after season 5 though, I will be happy. I think season 4 is the best yet, and it just keeps getting better. out of 11 episodes, I have only not enjoyed 1. That is a fantsatic ratio for me. And believe me, if the writing was half as bad as some people are trying to make out, I wouldn't be watching anymore. I just can't see why some people are complaining. But each to their own... (I can see why the people who liked Weir and Beckett are complaining, obviously).

Atlantis ratings aren't up. They may have jumped .1 from the last episode or something similar, but every season the numbers are down. This season is no exception.


I'm just wondering if any of the people complaining about new tech-of-the-week "Deus Ex Machinas" have ever watched a show called 'Star Trek: Voyager'.
This show is the absolute definition of DEM. Every time they were in a hitch they would just remodulate the deflector or emit a beam of some kind of particle tuned to a specific frequency, etc and magically that would work every time, regardless of whether they were using it against a nebula or a Borg Cube.
SG-1 and Atlantis have NEVER been that bad and I hope to god they never are. I stopped watching Voyager around S7 when the solution to every problem had something to do with Seven's nanoprobes.

Naonak nailed it with the definition of Deus Ex Machinas:


Pretty much all of the things you mentioned, bar the Replicator-maker, are not DEMs, they're just using previously mentioned and/or used technology. I'll give you that the Replicator-maker was somewhat a DEM but it gave us the hottie that was Fran so I'll let them off on that one :D

At the end of the day, Stargate is scifi, and scifi means technobabble. As long as they don't get to Voyager levels of convenient technobabble, I will continue watching. As soon as the solution to every problem becomes 'nanites', I'll probably stop watching.

Sorry but I completely disagree. What's worse, Voyager putting in a technobabble solution using the technology they've always possesed? Or Atlantis, having magical new technology appear out of the blue in an episode where they need it. I can see a typical writer's meeting going like this:

"Hey let's create these super kewl bad guys, with incredible powers being able to do all sorts of nasty and evil things to people"

"Great idea! They'll be so awesomely powerful it'll be amazing!!!! But wait, how will the team beat them?"

"Ah don't worry, we'll just introduce a new amazing Ancient device into that episode it'll solve all the team's problems"

"You're so clever."

:cool:

And by amazing Ancient device, I mean things like:

the time travel puddlejumper
the Hyperspace puddlejumper
Replicator-maker
Asguard beam weapons
Yet another 304 battleship
The Ark of Truth
The Weapon on Dakara
The Ancient repository in Lost City
Merlin's device
The anti-Prior tech
Asguard beaming/shields/weapons
Invisibility tech



While I agree such devices as the one in the ark ore a bit too convenient the movie is not about the ark itself is about the journey to it. Don't you agree?

The journey is fine but at the end of the day the resolution to a 3 year long story arc is lame, and involves yet another deus ex machina.

Evil Ori - All killed using Ancient device sent through a wormhole
Ori followers - All converted using Ancient device in Ark of Truth

Complete anti-climax

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 04:32 PM
Atlantis ratings aren't up. They may have jumped .1 from the last episode or something similar, but every season the numbers are down. This season is no exception.
Proof? You can't produce proof because all evidence shows otherwise.




Sorry but I completely disagree. What's worse, Voyager putting in a technobabble solution using the technology they've always possesed? Or Atlantis, having magical new technology appear out of the blue in an episode where they need it. I can see a typical writer's meeting going like this:

"Hey let's create these super kewl bad guys, with incredible powers being able to do all sorts of nasty and evil things to people"

"Great idea! They'll be so awesomely powerful it'll be amazing!!!! But wait, how will the team beat them?"

"Ah don't worry, we'll just introduce a new amazing Ancient device into that episode it'll solve all the team's problems"

"You're so clever."
Obviously you have issue with the show but I disagree.


And by amazing Ancient device, I mean things like:

the time travel puddlejumper
the Hyperspace puddlejumper
Replicator-maker
Asguard beam weapons
Yet another 304 battleship
The Ark of Truth
The Weapon on Dakara
The Ancient repository in Lost City
Merlin's device
The anti-Prior tech
Asguard beaming/shields/weapons
Invisibility tech
None of that clasafies as Ex Deux Machina in my opinion. All of it had been referenced before with the exception of the Replicator Maker in BAMSR, the Dakara Weapon and Ark of Truth. None of it makes the stories or resolutions unbelievable.




The journey is fine but at the end of the day the resolution to a 3 year long story arc is lame, and involves yet another deus ex machina.

Evil Ori - All killed using Ancient device sent through a wormhole
Ori followers - All converted using Ancient device in Ark of Truth

Complete anti-climax
How do you know about the ending of Ark of Truth? Oh yeah you can't unless you got it illeaglly. And I disagree that the resolutions are lame and anticlimatic.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 05:22 PM
Proof? You can't produce proof because all evidence shows otherwise.

You want proof? Ok.

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/ratings.shtml
http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/ratings.shtml
http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/ratings.shtml
http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/ratings.shtml

In graph form:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/776/graphkc2.jpg

Those are the Atlantis ratings from season 1 to season 4 so far. (missing the last couple of weeks)


None of that clasafies as Ex Deux Machina in my opinion. All of it had been referenced before with the exception of the Replicator Maker in BAMSR, the Dakara Weapon and Ark of Truth. None of it makes the stories or resolutions unbelievable.

Oh really, so the the time travel puddlejumper, the Replicator-maker, the Asguard beam weapons, the neverending supply of 304's to suit whenever they need one, the Ark of Truth, the Weapon on Dakara, the Ancient repository in Lost City, Asguard beaming/shields/weapons and Invisibility tech didn't just appear all of a sudden in one episode? Yes they did, without any prior warning.

But it doesn't matter if some others were mentioned once or twice, the fact remains, that the writers have made every single problem or disaster get solved in the blink of an eye with the latest cool new tech

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 05:24 PM
And I disagree that the resolutions are lame and anticlimatic.

<Snip>

But you're right, ending 3 whole seasons of storylines dedicated to the Ori by having the team locate YET ANOTHER Ancient device isn't anticlimatic at all.

PG15
January 9th, 2008, 05:48 PM
A new 304 ship whenever the story needs one.

One a year, actually, and it's fairly regular in its periodicy.

And why the heck would they STOP making those?!

<snip>


I enjoyed it too. A fun episode with some cool effects, but that's about it. Nothing to challenge the mind, but it was hardly quality storytelling.


On the contrary, the whole FRAN situation has gotten my mind cogs working on overdrive on trying to figure out whether her existence counted as brainwashing or not.

The funny thing is that, on a whole, for me, Stargate has never challenged the mind. Any moral stories were as subtle as a bucket of bricks and I usually hated them, and only once or twice were there episodes that seemed to have substence, but really it was just a bunch of flowy and flowery language. But you know what Stargate does better than almost every other show I've ever watched? It's fun. It's incredibly entertaining, and I for one cherish it for that reason, and that reason alone.



Sorry but I completely disagree. What's worse, Voyager putting in a technobabble solution using the technology they've always possesed? Or Atlantis, having magical new technology appear out of the blue in an episode where they need it.

I despised that part of Voyager. At least with Atlantis they can build up the plot to have an exciting climax and conclusion. With Voyager, it's usually "oh no! We're all gonna die!! [insert technobabble that nobody understands] Good going, now we'll survive! Hooray!" THE END.

Seriously, I've been watching a lot of Voyager lately, and a lot of episodes ends like that. Considering how technobabble is almost always new since it's gibberish, it's kinda like pulling out new tech every episode, except you can't separate the new tech from the old tech because you understand neither.

stevearm07
January 9th, 2008, 05:55 PM
And why does all negative discussion about the show have to go into the Anti-Stargate thread? Why should all people who wish to discuss what they don't like about the show be exiled to their own little thread? How is that fair?



On the contrary, the whole FRAN situation has gotten my mind cogs working on overdrive on trying to figure out whether her existence counted as brainwashing or not.

The funny thing is that, on a whole, for me, Stargate has never challenged the mind. Any moral stories were as subtle as a bucket of bricks and I usually hated them, and only once or twice were there episodes that seemed to have substence, but really it was just a bunch of flowy and flowery language. But you know what Stargate does better than almost every other show I've ever watched? It's fun. It's incredibly entertaining, and I for one cherish it for that reason, and that reason alone.

Now THAT I agree with. Stargate never challenges the mind. You mentioned FRAN... why should it be up to the fans to wonder about the morality of the issue. Why didn't they go into it in the episode itself. Other than a quick shrug of McKay's shoulders and a sad face.

Stargate is fun. As I said it's a lighthearted popcorn series that's fun and funny. It was much more than that many years ago though.



Seriously, I've been watching a lot of Voyager lately, and a lot of episodes ends like that. Considering how technobabble is almost always new since it's gibberish, it's kinda like pulling out new tech every episode, except you can't separate the new tech from the old tech because you understand neither.

Actually I think there's been many anti-climax's in Atlantis' latest episodes. They build the storyline up and up, then end it with a simple resolution. Obviously not all the episodes, but most this season I think.

Chemp
January 9th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Atlantis ratings aren't up. They may have jumped .1 from the last episode or something similar, but every season the numbers are down. This season is no exception.

The ratings are down for all shows not only Atlantis



Sorry but I completely disagree. What's worse, Voyager putting in a technobabble solution using the technology they've always possessed? Or Atlantis, having magical new technology appears out of the blue in an episode where they need it. I can see a typical writer's meeting going like this:

"Hey let's create these super kewl bad guys, with incredible powers being able to do all sorts of nasty and evil things to people"

"Great idea! They'll be so awesomely powerful it'll be amazing!!!! But wait, how will the team beat them?"

"Ah don't worry, we'll just introduce a new amazing Ancient device into that episode it'll solve all the team's problems"

"You're so clever."

Can't argue with that since I haven't seen vojager.


the time travel puddlejumper

that's not a deus ex machine.since it hasnít saved from nothing jet. it only got them in trouble.

the Hyperspace puddlejumper
it didn't appear out of blue McKay started developing it in tao of rodney and finished it in adrift-lifeline


Replicator-maker
it did appear out of the blue but it has been mentioned before indirectly(how do you think ancients developed replicators.)


Asguard beam weapons
Out of the blue no!!but i agree that they are used far too often.


Yet another 304 battleship
Whatís wrong with that? Please explain.(no joke)

The Ark of Truth
Already told what I think about it.

The Weapon on Dakara
While it did appear out of the blue it took some time to make it work as we wanted and it served for new stories to be written around it.

The Ancient repository in Lost City
It took a lot of effort to make it work and it worked only once do to lack of power.

Merlin's device
Which one sangrall or the mantle?

The anti-Prior tech
developed by us, the same way as p90,x303,x302,malps I .didn see you complain when they started using p90 instead of m5

Asguard beaming/shields/weapons
I's about time we learned something from our allies

Invisibility tech
I agree with you a huge can of worms if used incorrectly....so far so good.




The journey is fine but at the end of the day the resolution to a 3 year long story arc is lame, and involves yet another deus ex machina.

Evil Ori - All killed using Ancient device sent through a wormhole
Ori followers - All converted using Ancient device in Ark of Truth

Complete



I dare you to find a better solution to end a war with millions of enemy soldiers advanced space ships with 3 space ships. Would an all-out war between ori and ancients be better thousand bright lights fighting with our heroes watching...well thatís anti-climax

Skydiver
January 9th, 2008, 06:08 PM
since you guys are incapable of discussing without name calling, you're gonna stop with this topic