Asurans Fatal Weakness - Answer to Plotholes?

[Zar_wolf]

I've been thinking and after re-watching some episodes, re-reading topics and such here on GateWorld and have come to a conclusion: The Asurans have another Fatal Weakness.

The First One was discussed in depth in "This Mortal Coil" and that was that Asurans can not ascend because of how ReplicloneWeir put it, they were lacking a "special ingredient"; aka a Soul. The Second, more fatal flaw resulting in the first? They lack the ability to fully manipulate or recreate the Ancients due to a series of multiple missing coding and such.

What has lead me to this conclusion started with the reason why the Asurans seem to use drones as some would describe "conservatively". That's what started my thought "What if they can't completely control Ancient technology?" The Asurans seem to want to match the Ancients so badly to achieve ascension. However, the Ancients did not create the Asurans to use their technology, but instead strike against the Wraith on a atomic level. So why include the programming need to allow them to manipulate Ancient Technology?

That could also answer some of the plotholes that seem to surround the Asurans. If they couldn't properly use Ancient Technology, then most of the 10,000+ years since the Ancients left would have been spent finding a way around their programming (since they couldn't change it up to that point) that would allow them to access the Ancient technology. Also, many here are complaining the battle above the Asuran planet should have been lost. Not if the Asurans have barely any control over the ships they've built. The is shown time and time again when the Asurans use limited amount of drones. If my theory is correct, then they may have found away around their coding, a "loophole" in the coding if you please, that would give them limited control of Ancient technology without the ATA gene. However, with that limited control they wouldn't be able to fire multiple drones, control ships rapidly, respond to a surprise strike against, etc.

So all in all my theory is that the Asurans were not programmed to be able to use Ancient technology, but they found a loophole in their coding that allowed them limited control of Lantean weapons and such. The Asurans did not lose the battle in BAMSR'd because of a plothole or poor writing, but instead their lack of control and use - maybe even logic.

Comments, counters, suggestions/additions, or ranting against my for defending TPTB as good writers are welcome and accepted. Discuss please.
~Zar Wolf

[Mister Oragahn]

I've been thinking and after re-watching some episodes, re-reading topics and such here on GateWorld and have come to a conclusion: The Asurans have another Fatal Weakness.

The First One was discussed in depth in "This Mortal Coil" and that was that Asurans can not ascend because of how ReplicloneWeir put it, they were lacking a "special ingredient"; aka a Soul. The Second, more fatal flaw resulting in the first? They lack the ability to fully manipulate or recreate the Ancients due to a series of multiple missing coding and such.

What has lead me to this conclusion started with the reason why the Asurans seem to use drones as some would describe "conservatively". That's what started my thought "What if they can't completely control Ancient technology?" The Asurans seem to want to match the Ancients so badly to achieve ascension. However, the Ancients did not create the Asurans to use their technology, but instead strike against the Wraith on a atomic level. So why include the programming need to allow them to manipulate Ancient Technology?

That could also answer some of the plotholes that seem to surround the Asurans. If they couldn't properly use Ancient Technology, then most of the 10,000+ years since the Ancients left would have been spent finding a way around their programming (since they couldn't change it up to that point) that would allow them to access the Ancient technology. Also, many here are complaining the battle above the Asuran planet should have been lost. Not if the Asurans have barely any control over the ships they've built. The is shown time and time again when the Asurans use limited amount of drones. If my theory is correct, then they may have found away around their coding, a "loophole" in the coding if you please, that would give them limited control of Ancient technology without the ATA gene. However, with that limited control they wouldn't be able to fire multiple drones, control ships rapidly, respond to a surprise strike against, etc.

So all in all my theory is that the Asurans were not programmed to be able to use Ancient technology, but they found a loophole in their coding that allowed them limited control of Lantean weapons and such. The Asurans did not lose the battle in BAMSR'd because of a plothole or poor writing, but instead their lack of control and use - maybe even logic.

Comments, counters, suggestions/additions, or ranting against my for defending TPTB as good writers are welcome and accepted. Discuss please.
~Zar Wolf

No Man's Land and The Tower pretty much prove that any machine or alien can fire and control drones very efficiently without requiring the ATA gene.

[Zar_wolf]

No Man's Land and The Tower pretty much prove that any machine or alien can fire and control drones very efficiently without requiring the ATA gene.

Not true. In "The Tower" the royal dying guy had the ATA gene, as did his family, though it was slowly disappearing from the generations. And at what point in "No Man's Land" did someone who did not have the ATA gene fire drones? I do believe it was Major Lorne, who fired the drones, has the ATA gene, though I can not remember in which episode it was stated.
~Zar Wolf

[Blistna]

I really, really doubt that they use the same coding as the ancients. Unless something prevents something for them to re-make that....but I somehhow doubt it.

[thekillman]

i think its some kinda failsafe in their programming: should they ever go evil, they will not be technologically superior to the ancients.also imitation cant be as good as the original. it also shows what would happen with the ancients if they would still exist: their technolog would become easily mass produced, and recreated. but they wouldnt invent much more.

[ijffdrie]

this is the best theorie i've read so far

[!!??]

I think your theory is good and explians alot but how did the asurans kill the wraith so easily if they had limited control and there could be times where the wraith highly out number the asurans.

[ijffdrie]

actually i think te asurans were never outnumbered
the war between the wraith and the replicators and the wraith had just begun, and since i guess there are somewhere between 60 and 100 hives in the galaxy. that means that the hives are 3:1 to the aurora's, but the wraith are very divided, so i guess the aurora's mass when they battle the wraith, and i dont think a third of the wraith could unite

[umopapisdn]

They weren't directly battling the wraith as much as they were destroying their food source. Clever really but the theory doesn't work so much as that, why would you create something to boost your nuber that couldn't use your tech. It wouldn't make much sense. Like having an intelligent tank that could fire.

[Gala]

Well I had been thinking too and I came up with a possible answer.


Firing lots of drones kills the shield.


It would explain why they don't fire masses. When we fired masses from the Orion its shield died, we haven't ever seen masses of drones fired from any other Aurora class. The traveler aurora class hasn't fired tons yet just a few.


So maybe firing loads kills the shield, not that a shield helps against us much anyway.

[umopapisdn]

Well I had been thinking too and I came up with a possible answer.


Firing lots of drones kills the shield.


It would explain why they don't fire masses. When we fired masses from the Orion its shield died, we haven't ever seen masses of drones fired from any other Aurora class. The traveler aurora class hasn't fired tons yet just a few.


So maybe firing loads kills the shield, not that a shield helps against us much anyway.

Actually that sheild was turned off because they needed power for the drones. They couldn't generate enough power to have the sheild up and fire the drones. It is possible that so many drones destabelises the sheilds in the same way as the ori beam weapon.

[JSPuddlejumper]

I can think of 2 reasons off the top of my head:

We see that the Asuran ships were firing 2-12 drones at once, instead of say 50+ drones hitting the target.

1) Why? That is how they were meant to be fired, so not to deplete your ammo all in one shot. Selective targeting to take out the ships?

2) ATA gene thing once again. Larren said "We have an arsenal of drones, but none of my guys can fire them the way you can".

So while the systems can be rigged, somebody with the ATA can manipulate the tech to another level.

[Gala]

Or what I just said, and that they don't have the capability to keep shields and fire tons of drones at the same time


Still no amount of drones seen comes close to the amount launched by oniel in antartica, that truly was an amazing moment.

[JSPuddlejumper]

No Mans Land Aurora was damaged, in order to fire the drones, they had to turn off the shields.

But yeah, there could exist the possiblity that in order to fire so many drones at once, the power requirement is very high and the shields must be turned off.

[Seastallion]

I think that the Asurans lack of the ATA gene probably is the best answer as to why they didn't fire off so many drones at once, among other things. It is likely the same reason the Travelers wanted Sheppard in the chair. Sure... you can overcome a lack of the ATA gene by technological means, but it was designed to be used a certain way. Those having the gene do indeed operate Ancient tech at a level unattainable when having to interface through technology as the 'middleman'.

Also, another weakness of the Asurans was one that many advanced cultures have... arrogance. They never really believed that they could be taken down. Sure they lost some ships, but they were sure that they could just adapt and just keep winning as they had been doing. It is VERY likely that the massive attack by multiple races all at once completely surprised the Replicators. It probably never even entered their minds that such a thing might happen.

Another reason the 'alliance' won was a numbers game. The Asurans (Replicators) had 30 ships. Sheppard told Carter that the had 14 ships confirmed, and that Larin thought she could get 3 or 4 more as well, taking that number up to a possible 17 or 18. On top of that, each hive (7 of them) launched several waves of fighters, so you might count each hive ship twice since ALL they had to do was disable the Replicator ships, NOT destroy them. So that 17 or 18 ships then effectively becomes 24 or 25 ships. In addition, the Earth ships (with the new Asgard weapons) could probably count twice or possibly even thrice, bringing the number from 24 or 25 ships (effectively) to between 26 and 29 ships, nearly evening the odds to 1 on 1. Again, keep in mind, the 'alliance' ships merely had to disable the Replicator ships, NOT destroy them. The Asurans on the other hand did NOT have that luxury, as for them it was an all out fight if they wanted to escape.

So, in short, if you think about it, there really isn't so much of a plothole, or if there is only minor ones. I think the writers did okay.