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Eri13
January 5th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Come, Shakespeare experts (or those with general opinions!)

I'm very curious on the name of this episode, and why it was called 'Be All My Sins Remember'd'--is there something specific it refers to?

The actual quote comes from Shakespeare's Hamlet, at the end of Hamlet's famous 'to be or not to be' soliloquy. He sees Ophelia has been listening to him muse on death, and says to her:


Nymph, in thy orisons, be all my sins remember'd.

The Literal translation is: Nymph, in your prayers be all my sins remembered, or remember my sins in your prayers to God. On a wider analysis, people believe he is asking for her to pray to God to punish him for all his sins.

In the soliloquy, he had been contemplating suicide and death. He decides to live because his own consciousness could not move past the fear that taking one's life (or just dying in general) might actually have consequences in the afterlife (such as hell).

Why did the writers choose it? Was it in reference to what Hamlet says or just a good set of words? I'm curious to know if anyone else is intrigued. They also pulled "This Mortal Coil" from that soliloquy.

For my part

I think they're referring to the fact that the entire involvement with the Replicators has been the fault of Atlantis expedition (much like the Wraith), and those are the sins--they provoked them, rewrote their base code twice (which led them to attack both the Ancients and the innocents of Pegasus) , and in the battle with them, formed a treaty with their worst enemies (the Wraith), offered up sacrifices (the guy from "Miller's Crossing" and FRAN), and lost Weir.

Or maybe Weir is Ophelia? She and her team are now the last of the Pegasus replicators--whether she's dupli!Weir or real Weir, she is possessed/created courtesy the replicators. Is it through her being alive that 'all the sins are remembered?'

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 05:38 PM
Come, Shakespeare experts (or those with general opinions!)

I'm very curious on the name of this episode, and why it was called 'Be All My Sins Remember'd'--is there something specific it refers to?

The actual quote comes from Shakespeare's Hamlet, at the end of Hamlet's famous 'to be or not to be' soliloquy. He sees Ophelia has been listening to him muse on death, and says to her:

.

The Literal translation is: Nymph, in your prayers be all my sins remembered, or remember my sins in your prayers to God. On a wider analysis, people believe he is asking for her to pray to God to punish him for all his sins.

In the soliloquy, he had been contemplating suicide and death. He decides to live because his own consciousness could not move past the fear that taking one's life (or just dying in general) might actually have consequences in the afterlife (such as hell).

Why did the writers choose it? Was it in reference to what Hamlet says or just a good set of words? I'm curious to know if anyone else is intrigued. They also pulled "This Mortal Coil" from that soliloquy.

For my part

I think they're referring to the fact that the entire involvement with the Replicators has been the fault of Atlantis expedition (much like the Wraith), and those are the sins--they provoked them, rewrote their base code twice (which led them to attack both the Ancients and the innocents of Pegasus) , and in the battle with them, formed a treaty with their worst enemies (the Wraith), offered up sacrifices (the guy from "Miller's Crossing" and FRAN), and lost Weir.

Or maybe Weir is Ophelia? She and her team are now the last of the Pegasus replicators--whether she's dupli!Weir or real Weir, she is possessed/created courtesy the replicators. Is it through her being alive that 'all the sins are remembered?'

I think you are spot on with your analasis. However the most I remember about that play is the first part of that speech. High school was a very long time ago.;)

jenks
January 5th, 2008, 05:39 PM
I haven't really thought about it, my initial interpretation was that it probably means that what they've done, for what ever reason, will come back and bite them in the arse.

Myles
January 5th, 2008, 06:17 PM
I was trying to figure out what the episode name was in reference to myself. I figured it was allying with the wraith and actually being the cause of the Asurans, but you put it far better then I could of.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 06:22 PM
From "Hamlet" Act 3 Scene 1

spoilered for size
To be or not to be, that is the question;
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them. To die, to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to — 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life,
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.-- Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

and no I'm not a Shakespeare expert, this was posted by The Maneuver in one of the TMC threads ;)

Vulcan611
January 6th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Doing evil to stop evil is a posibility

Ltcolshepjumper
January 6th, 2008, 04:34 PM
I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 04:38 PM
from JM's blog


Rose (formerly OhioAnne) writes: “What is the significance of the title?”

Martin G:

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, ’tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there’s the r
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember’d.

kirmit
January 6th, 2008, 04:40 PM
I think it basically means revenge, the Asurans sins were wiping out all those human populations, the remembered part is us getting revenge on them by wiping them out, that's under the assumption an AI can have sins.....

Eri13
January 6th, 2008, 05:22 PM
from JM's blog

Yeah, I knew where it came from, it was nice of Marty to quote the soliloquy, but I really wanted to know why those two lines. "This Mortal Coil" makes sense to me (in the monologue it means "the living body" and the big question in TMC was whether the clones were 'human' or not.)

But "Be All my Sins Remember'd" is much more perplexing. I'd love to know his thinking behind why that line, since it's not as clear. ;)

muffinnuffin
January 7th, 2008, 01:22 PM
I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.

I quite like that idea.

In terms of the Asurans...

I suppose BAMSR can be taken to mean that Weir and her possible Replicator Friends are the 'sins' of the whole war and they're not going without being remembered?

I did Hamlet last year, you'd think I'd be able to figure something out...

Cap116
January 7th, 2008, 02:36 PM
I think that is the real Weir, not a RepliWeir. The only reason I say that is because of the uniform she is wearing. They didn't switch to that uniform till after she left. So take that in to consideration.

s09119
January 7th, 2008, 03:10 PM
I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.

The Wraith arose on their own; the Ancients came across them on a "dark world" one day, remember?

But I think the titles are good... "This Mortal Coil" refers to the team 'shedding' their physical forms (in a sense) to become the RepliTeam, even though it's later revealed that the originals are still around. And "Be all My Sins Remember'd" refers to the alliance with the Wraith, their long-time enemy and a race that wants nothing more than to obliterate them.

Ed
January 8th, 2008, 12:27 PM
I think refers to the replicator woman they made as one of the sins

ori soldier
January 8th, 2008, 12:57 PM
the ancients created the asurans and this apart from weirs ship sees the end of replicaters so i think its to do with that instead of too do with earth

DeathDealer19
January 9th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Given the names of the two episodes and Weir's involvement in both of them my interpretation would be something like this:


When we have shuffled off this mortal coil

Theoretically Weir's now semi-inmortal (now that the nanites inside her repair her body every time something happens to it), so the "mortal coil" would be Weir's "weak" human body.


The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember’d.

This would also be about Weir since everyone believes she's dead and she has all the time in the universe to do whatever she wants to do, the part that relates to her is leaving her past life behind her, now being the leader of the remnants of the Asurans.

Enokrad
January 10th, 2008, 04:07 AM
Weir is their sin and it will be remember.
When they used Weir to get the ZPM, they may have saved Atlantis and the expedition from the vacuum of space, but they gave up the most knowledgeable member of the expedition and mostly the one who knew Earth's and the Milky Way"s location better than anyone (asides McKay). It resulted in their survival (to live another day) and led in getting rid of the Raplicators (and allowing the wraith going back to work culling worlds). Weir is still alive in whatever form. 100% replicator or less makes no difference. She seems to have a plan, or better yet a purpose. Fran was more than willing to give her life to fulfill her purpose. What will Weir do to complete hers? Also, in creating Fran, McKay will now be cockier than ever. He will show it with messing around with the nanotechnology machine even further. lets see where that leads them. In the end, despite all their glorious achievements this time (even ending up not getting stabbed in the back), The Powers That Be are working hard in the background to create all those little things that will bring them to the eve of disaster (again) in the future. And then, their sins shall be remember'd.

jenks
January 10th, 2008, 04:37 AM
Weir is their sin and it will be remember.
When they used Weir to get the ZPM, they may have saved Atlantis and the expedition from the vacuum of space, but they gave up the most knowledgeable member of the expedition and mostly the one who knew Earth's and the Milky Way"s location better than anyone (asides McKay). It resulted in their survival (to live another day) and led in getting rid of the Raplicators (and allowing the wraith going back to work culling worlds). Weir is still alive in whatever form. 100% replicator or less makes no difference. She seems to have a plan, or better yet a purpose. Fran was more than willing to give her life to fulfill her purpose. What will Weir do to complete hers? Also, in creating Fran, McKay will now be cockier than ever. He will show it with messing around with the nanotechnology machine even further. lets see where that leads them. In the end, despite all their glorious achievements this time (even ending up not getting stabbed in the back), The Powers That Be are working hard in the background to create all those little things that will bring them to the eve of disaster (again) in the future. And then, their sins shall be remember'd.

Are you kidding?

dcaa12
January 10th, 2008, 05:51 AM
i am no expert but i believe that is a double play on both the ancients and the atlantis expedition.
it has always been that humans, or mostly in this case the sgc tends to consider the ancients a buch of arrogants that were doing a lot of very dangerous stuff and not cleaning up their messes.
but also i believe is kind of a yardstick if you remember when the sg-1 visits the world of the nox, they simply dissmiss them as children playing with really big toys.
now the atlantis expedition is engaging in the very hubris that was the eventual downfall of the ancients.
great tasks, great develompment, but not really thinking through the consequences.
in the end i believe that both episodes refer more to the immortalization of the mistakes of both the ancients and the earth humans, and how it has all come together in one place.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 10th, 2008, 08:15 AM
I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.

That's good enough for me. Plus the fact that Atlantis has had issues with both.

Enokrad
January 11th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Are you kidding?

did it seem like i was joking? if so i apologize.
i was actually pretty serious about it (as one can be with a tv show that is)

jenks
January 12th, 2008, 06:25 AM
did it seem like i was joking? if so i apologize.
i was actually pretty serious about it (as one can be with a tv show that is)

She's no where near the most knowledgeable person in the expedition, and she likely has no idea how to get to Earth beyond dialing the gate.