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GateWorld
January 2nd, 2008, 02:46 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/411.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/411.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/411.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">BE ALL MY SINS REMEMBER'D</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 411</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
With a plan to potentially extinguish the Replicator threat, the Atlantis team must seek an alliance with a fleet of Wraith ships.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/411.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

ColCaldwell
January 4th, 2008, 06:51 PM
OMG, Caldwell and Daedalus leading the armada....holy *****

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 06:55 PM
May I be the first to say, FRAN is undeniably hot.

Gorgeous face, nice hair, and green eyes... I am a sucker for green eyes.

Any word yet on who guest-starred for that role?

technoextreme
January 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
What the hell was with the ending?????

Sweetsong
January 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Holy "lots of things going on in this episode" batman.
Teaming up with the wraith, the travelers, and creating their own human form replicator, and Teyla finally revealing her pregnancy.

Couple of things though, the replicators must have detected that huge fleet headed towards them, why did they not raise shields allowing mckay and crew to beam into the city to complete their mission?

Shepards reaction to Teyla's pregnancy was quite abrupt, "You are releaved from active duty!" But I totally loved that ronon was there to console her, and held her hand as they walked to the infirmary, awww!

And finally the ending, holy crap, is Weir goinig to be an enemy now?

Kribby
January 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Okay,

That was AWESOME!

-K

Specter177
January 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Definitely the best episode of the season. I wonder if Elizabeth is good or not.

Cap116
January 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Seems to be Wier as the new enemy. Possibly??? This episode made up for the episodes that were slow. EXCELLENT! The fleet scene, the space battle, FREAKING INCREDIBLE!!!!!!! Best so far this season!

jenks
January 4th, 2008, 07:02 PM
I think I have a new favourite episode, that was ****ing EPIC! :eek:

Freekzilla
January 4th, 2008, 07:02 PM
HOLY CRAP!
:thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09:

Chezlee
January 4th, 2008, 07:02 PM
It was pretty good, kinda funny, some good action. A few "ah-has" but when Weir showed up, I was literally (as the preview said) speachless

J_schinderlin56
January 4th, 2008, 07:03 PM
This was quite simply a bad Assed Episode!

monkey_man132
January 4th, 2008, 07:03 PM
figures mckay will make a sexy weapon :lol:

the battle got better as it went on. The ending was cool evil replicator Elizabeth pwns

lots of parts were funny reminds me of earlier seasons the nice funny parts.

CommanderThor11
January 4th, 2008, 07:03 PM
So who is the bigger bad a** repli-weir or repli-carter?

best episode i've seen since sateda!!

Homeslice55
January 4th, 2008, 07:03 PM
beautiful... both Fran and Elizabeth.... best episode of Atlantis to date.

Malakriss
January 4th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Saving a copy of this in HD for all of time.

...and we didn't get stabbed in the back!

kingsownall
January 4th, 2008, 07:04 PM
omfg, the last part shocked me the most. The space battles were fantastic, and Fran was HOT.

J_schinderlin56
January 4th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Repli Weir Lives!

deckard
January 4th, 2008, 07:05 PM
I have to admit, i was wondering where the hell they were going as of late with Atlantis, almost all of it was feeling like rehashed ep's of sg-1, and it had left me feeling a bit jaded.

Be all my Sins Remember'd totally brought back my faith in Atlantis; it feels like the storyline is starting to gain some decent traction. The character development is feeling good, finally, and with the ending, I have nothing but questions as to everyone's motivation. Exactly what i wanted. I feel so teased!

Big props to the writers of this episode, please keep the stories coming back like this.

technoextreme
January 4th, 2008, 07:05 PM
So who is the bigger bad a** repli-weir or repli-carter?

best episode i've seen since sateda!!
I'd love it if the replicators were Niam supporters.

AGateFan
January 4th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Hmmm, well I guess that whole moving atlantis to a new planet so we dont have to worry (or just wonder why it doesnt happen) about constant attack anymore is out the window. Should have stayed with the Whales.

Some cool stuff in this ep. Some stupid stuff in this ep. Stupid leather scifi cliche but otherwise nothing particularly cringworthy I guess.

Still though, meh just something thats making me lose my interest. I was hoping the replicators would actually be destroyed and we could end that stoyline and go back to wraith or something interesting but the epilogue thing killed that. Now we move onto another cliche, which is odd because I thought that particular actress was done with this show (by her choice after they scrwd her over). Whatever, I was done with the replicators when they ceased to be bugs and nothing on Atlantis has re-endeared them to me.

loondoggy
January 4th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Fran was a pretty decent character too bad they had to kill her.

I'm not sure but from the black that she was wearing Im thinking that weir is going to be evil.

Oh and by the way the aurora's were very dissapointing against the asgard weapons. I expected a bit more from them.

siXbrownSnakes2
January 4th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Obviously the best episode of the season, and the best since the first half of S3 in general. :) however I must say...

-Apparently replicator ships don't have shields? I mean, these were the ancients they're imitating. Didn't seem like the technology was on par, however.
-Repliweir is a cliche and much similar to replicarter, but we don't know enough about her yet so I won't comment

lastly, I must say that I'm a bit ashamed at how it took spending tons of money on visual effects to finally come up with a banger episode. SG1 always had that way of creating great episodes without the need for tons of visual effects. of course, the episode was still fantastic... ;)

Infernorhythm
January 4th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Fran! "Hello." Line of the episode.

Ok, wow, I had high hopes for this episode, but this was miles ahead of what I was expecting.

The "Colonel, Colonel, Colonels" opening was great, and every subplot was handled perfectly. Teyla's pregnancy is in the open and the crew's reactions were realistic and dead on. John was concerned and Ronon was sympathetic, a great move out of his usual tough guy bit. I LOVED Larrin's return ("Sheppard that better not be you!" "Sheppard what the hell are you doing here?" "Larrin what the hell are you doing here?"), and their subplot is actually moving forward at a great rate. McKay and Zelenka are still completely awesome, and the "dry spell" was hilarious. And of course, Todd the Wraith is really awesome. For all the wicked evilness that James Lafazonas gave to the Wraith in the first two seasons (shame he left), Heyerdahl is great.

The battle: Forget BSG, SG:A has the best battles on TV. That was just...wow. The panning camera, the detail, and the overall epicness of it was perfect.

The ending: WOW! Who says Weir is a Replicator? It was never stated. I'm dead sure its the real Weir, and that those are the Niam alligned, pro Ascension Replicators. How they survived and got away from Oberoth is beyond me, but it should be interesting.

Anyone notice how Weir's new costume is basically a more leathery version of her Atlantis duds? Red patches and all.

Andy Mikita is definitely the best director on the show,

6/5 stars, best episode of the best season of the show. Bring on Spoils of War!

smushybird
January 4th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Evil!Weir. Bound to be better than RegularWeir. :D

Teyla must be having octuplets if she's that big at three months. ;)

Good on Ronon for being supportive, but Ronon is definitely not a girl's name. :)

Rodney, Radek, Sheppard, Ronon, Sam, Caldwell, our wraith...everyone was just great in this one.

Another wonderful episode. Fun story and all the little character touches included and the emotions not forgotten. Best season ever.
Good job, guys.

And while I don't pay much attention to the special effects, they must've been good in this episode. My son walked in during the ep and asked if I was watching Star Wars. :D

TollanTechie
January 4th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Well worth the wait for this gem....

Quite simply the best special effects we have ever seen on this show. Wow!

Briangate78
January 4th, 2008, 07:08 PM
OMFG!!! I am shocked right now!!!! Wow!! Amazing episode! What an ending.

Suzotchka
January 4th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Is this supposed to be Weir's 4th episode? If it is all I can say is ... lame. And why am I not surprised to not know if it's repli-Weir or the real Weir.

Hated the whole episode. Completely disappointing.

RedGuard
January 4th, 2008, 07:09 PM
The ending was not expected. Although it brings a nice twist to the story. I knew it was too easy. :weiranime42::weir44:

Arative
January 4th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Still processing this episode but my first thought was this episode was epic!
Really loved Carter putting Ellis in his place even though Ellis was right.
Couple of Earth ships kicking ass and taking names.
The wraith are actually getting some personality, which I like.
Battle scene's rocked!
And the ending, oh boy, the ending makes me question the mortal coil, is it the real Weir, fake. So many possibilities to take the show in so many new directions.
I really liked how they didn't get into the whole moral argument about using Fran as a weapon since Fran shut the argument down by saying she was fulfilling her purpose.

technoextreme
January 4th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Obviously the best episode of the season, and the best since the first half of S3 in general. :) however I must say...

-Apparently replicator ships don't have shields? I mean, these were the ancients they're imitating. Didn't seem like the technology was on par, however.
-Repliweir is a cliche and much similar to replicarter, but we don't know enough about her yet so I won't comment

Technically the technology we obtained from the Asgard had to be superior.

ussrelativity
January 4th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Obviously the best episode of the season, and the best since the first half of S3 in general. :) however I must say...

-Apparently replicator ships don't have shields? I mean, these were the ancients they're imitating. Didn't seem like the technology was on par, however.
-Repliweir is a cliche and much similar to replicarter, but we don't know enough about her yet so I won't comment

lastly, I must say that I'm a bit ashamed at how it took spending tons of money on visual effects to finally come up with a banger episode. SG1 always had that way of creating great episodes without the need for tons of visual effects. of course, the episode was still fantastic... ;)

Well, I'm back. What happened?
-----

I would refer to her as AsurWeir. It's a better name than with the Repli-prefix.

Myles
January 4th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Great episode. Although I don't like us completely owning Ancient ships. They might have said our shields cant take anymore, but they sure didn't show it. But besides that, great dialog, freaking AWESOME space battle, and a super cute replicator chick... cant beat it.

Briangate78
January 4th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Well there ya go folks, Weir is going to be back, but is it the real Weir? Is she really bad?? This show has just become simply amazing.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
January 4th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Seems to be Wier as the new enemy. Possibly??? This episode made up for the episodes that were slow. EXCELLENT! The fleet scene, the space battle, FREAKING INCREDIBLE!!!!!!! Best so far this season!
Couldn't it be RepliWeir, or did I miss something....?

idlewild202
January 4th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Holy Smokes!!! That was GOOD!!!! :D

The fleet was freaking AWESOME!! And the battle... oh I love a good battle. *glees*

THIS is the kind of episode that makes Atlantis is what it is, if only ALL the episodes were this good.

It was funny, it was dramatic, it was fresh, and best of all, it had an ending I totally was not expecting!

I loved how Ronon congratulated and consoled Teyla after Sheppard's negative response to her pregnancy. That was way to cute. I think that made all the Teyla/Ronon shippers VERY happy ;)

I am thinking I'm not liking the commander of the Apollo very much.... I loved how Sam shut him up though in the beginning.

And the ending... holy freaking frozen bad guys, Weir lives! And in charge of a ancient ship???!? WOW. Just WOW!! I hope they do good things with that... because I could see some amazing story arcs come out of that. Is she good, is she bad, is it the real Weir?? Oh man oh man oh man, I can not wait to see what they do with that (and oh boy I hope it isn't lame *prays it isn't lame*)

AGateFan
January 4th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Saving a copy of this in HD for all of time.

...and we didn't get stabbed in the back!
More importantly to me is that the Atlantis team managed not to actually stab any of their "allies" in the back!! Yay!!!


Good for them, I knew they had it in them.... well OK previous eps would indicate they didnt have it in them, but good for them. And they even expressed discomfort for sending a sort of sentient being to her death (helpful that she wanted to fullfil her purpose.... the whole when does a machine become a person is an interesting question but has been done many times on other shows....and video games)

TheJediSpectre
January 4th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Great episode. Although I don't like us completely owning Ancient ships. They might have said our shields cant take anymore, but they sure didn't show it. But besides that, great dialog, freaking AWESOME space battle, and a super cute replicator chick... cant beat it.

You know I hope they have it that Weirs Replicators Group picked up Fran & they want info from her & humans being humans we go save her. That actress was just toooooo cute & very nice.

Malakriss
January 4th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Fairly certain the Replicator ships have (had) shields, but the first one we ambushed before they had a chance to raise them. Asgard weaponry should tear right through them as well, since it should be 10,000 years more advanced.

technoextreme
January 4th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Couldn't it be RepliWeir, or did I miss something....?
We have no idea. Her dialog made it seem that she was a pro ascension replicator.

Homeslice55
January 4th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Is this supposed to be Weir's 4th episode? If it is all I can say is ... lame. And why am I not surprised to not know if it's repli-Weir or the real Weir.

Hated the whole episode. Completely disappointing.

I hope that wasn't Weir's fourth episode too, but come on, "hated the whole episode"... WHAT?!

Tokoya
January 4th, 2008, 07:14 PM
I honestly did NOT see that coming. Kind of wondering if this will be our enemy in season 5....

Any who.

Usually I can always see the end or the main plot twist coming in a Stargate episode, but wow, they pulled a fast one on me.

Bravo, TPTB, bravo.

watcher652
January 4th, 2008, 07:14 PM
First thoughts:

That was a great episode! Although I still can't take Larrin seriously.

Yay, Radek!

Funny to see Caldwell more supportive of Atlantis than Ellis. But Caldwell has seen the team in action. What's with Ellis, anyway?

Way to go Sam! Nobody speaks to people under her command like that. It's up to Sam to rein Rodney in, not Ellis.

That repli!cube McKay was working with looked like a PowerMac G4 cube.

I was afraid that Fran might turn, but she knew her reason for being. Like Repli!Keller, she could be self-sacrificing.

Great special effects, love seeing all those ships.

Ha, Larrin said to John "I know where you live, I'll call you."

OK, now we don't have to worry about feeding that Wraith anymore.

Omigod! Elizabeth! And we were so sure the replicant threat is over. Not!

Hey, do we know for sure that the duplicate team from the last episode is dead?

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
January 4th, 2008, 07:15 PM
Was it Weir or repliWeir?? If it was Weir, then.... :eek: :eek: :eek: Weir's EVIL???

TheJediSpectre
January 4th, 2008, 07:15 PM
I honestly did NOT see that coming. Kind of wondering if this will be our enemy in season 5....


I hope not. Replicators have been done to death. Hopefully Weir was just being a bad ass & like she originally wanted we alley with Weirs group.

Xicer
January 4th, 2008, 07:15 PM
Holy Frakkin' Hell, now that is what I call epic. That single episode just made the whole season for me. I mean WOW, where do I begin???

I loved the new armada, and the parts where the fleet is jumping into hyperspace together and jumping out as the planet is exploding was amazing. The entire battle was incredible, great CGI. There hasn't been that awesome of a battle since Lost City (sorry Siege and Camelot).

McKay was actually more than bareable this episode. The last half of S4 he was becoming more and more annoying but this episode completely changed that, like Sheppard said "All is right with the universe"

Oh and Fran, loved her, not just for the erm, eyecandy ;). I would love to see her again but its unlikely.

And the ending!!! I can't describe the expression on my face when I saw that, I never saw it coming and I think very few people did.

I think the only thing that bugged me about this episode was Larrin. I never liked her in Travelers and didn't like her that much in this episode either. Her scenes with Sheppard were extremely cheesy and almost unbearable. Too bad we didn't see a whole lot of Teyla either except for the pregnancy scene. I sorta agreed with Sheppard at first that Teyla shouldn't be out in the field like that and I could sorta understand his frustration. But anyway, all of these things were almost COMPLETELY overshadowed by the awesomeness of the rest of the episode! I'll admit ever since S4 was progressing I thought the quality of the episodes were dropping, but this episode completely changed all of that.

10/10 Best SGA episode yet! And I don't say that often.

jenks
January 4th, 2008, 07:16 PM
I hope that wasn't Weir's fourth episode too, but come on, "hated the whole episode"... WHAT?!

It is Torri's last episode this season, she said earlier in an interview that she would be in 4 episodes this season, but really only 2. So I'm guessing by that she means Lifeline and This Mortal Coil were the episodes were she actually played a part, and the other two are Adrift and Be All My Sins Remember'd were she's just... there.

the fifth man
January 4th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Definitely the best episode of the season so far IMO. I enjoyed it pretty much from start to finish. And what an ending.:eek: I can't wait to see where that goes.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
January 4th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Okay Joe Mallozzi was right. that was the best space battle i ever saw. the Whole Scene With the Entire Fleet before they jumped to hyperspace was very cool. The Elizabeth Scene Was Totally unexpected. but when i saw that the replicator ship i was like "here we go again."

Ruffles
January 4th, 2008, 07:18 PM
LOVED it. Thought it was a bit slow in parts but I understood they had to get all the people where they needed to be.

Good stuff:
* Caldwell and Ellis are back - nice to see them again
* Carter b****-slapping Ellis for the way he treated McKay. You go, girl!
* some sciency technobabble between Rodney and Sam
* Asgard weapons on the Daedy!
* Wraith humor - love that guy. Sorry to see him go.
* the team (minus McKay) getting stunned by the drones out of a need for privacy. Sheppard does unconscious so well (oops, wrong thread). And needing to stun Ronon several times so he didn't wake up first!
* Wraith info: some hives are without queens (is that why a male was running the hive in Sateda?) and the queens are needed to create the soldiers. Now I'm really looking forward to next week.
* Teyla finally confessing her pregnancy and John's anger - he's so protective of his people so it made total sense to me
* Ronon's reaction to her news!! I love him more every ep - he knew about Kanan, congratulated her, held her hand, walked her to the infirmary. Awesome.
* seeing everyone around the conference table and then the fleet together - Wraith, Lantians, Travelers, Tauri - what an alliance
* now THAT was a space battle - very cool
* Fran - of course McKay would create a hot girl but she was helpful and understood her purpose (and how many of us can say that?)
* Ronon and the Marines beaming in with McKay in the middle
* the complete annihilation of the replicators...
* ...almost - WEIR!!! I'm a girl so may I first say - great outfit. And doesn't that just leave all sorts of interesting things open for S5. What is her plan? Are the replicators with her like Keller from TMC - desiring to live in peace and learn to ascend? Who does she not want looking over her shoulder - Oberoth or Atlantis? And how the hell did she manage to stay hidden during that battle? And why weren't her nanites affected by Rodney's weapon? And... oh never mind.

In summary - what a way to kick off the back half of the season!

the fifth man
January 4th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Was it Weir or repliWeir?? If it was Weir, then.... :eek: :eek: :eek: Weir's EVIL???

If it is the real Weir, the nanites must of taken her over. That's the only explanation I can come up with.

mago1978
January 4th, 2008, 07:19 PM
WOW!!!

In my opinion, without any doubt, the best episode ever. Not only the best of the season or of the series, it was the best of the whole franchise.

It used all elements of the series beautifully and left me wanting more.

I've never liked Stargate Atlantis nearly as much as I liked SG1, but the story line improved a lot from mid season 3 on. The execution of the idea (also known as acting and directing) wasn't at all always that good. Even some of the season 4 episodes, like the mid-season finale, were badly executed and didn't make me want to re-watch it.

But now, with "Be All My Sins Remember'd", they got it perfect.

10 out of 10

ColCaldwell
January 4th, 2008, 07:19 PM
But it was great how Ellis shot down McKay in the briefing. And by all means, Ellis was right.

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Any theories as to why it was so easy to destroy Replicator technology? I didn't see any Aurora-class ships even display use of shields, let alone fire retaliatory drones. And as for the drones fired from the surface? They were mentioned, but failed to show in the battle.

How could the coalition hold off the Replicator ships? They were in possession of not only superior numbers but also superior technology. Every coalition vessel, save for the two heavily-upgraded 304s, was technologically or operationally inferior to a Replicator warship in a one-on-one engagement.

Of course, the coalition had the element of surprise, but there's no explained reason for the Replicators to not be on very high defensive alert. Hubris perhaps, but when they were forced to retreat into a defensive formation?

Perhaps the Asgard-equipped 304s acted as force multipliers, quickly disabling hostile ships while the rest of the fleet acted as cannon fodder. With so many ships there to take damage, perhaps their collective shields were able to absorb dispersed, chaotic retaliatory fire. Perhaps Wraith losses were great enough to explain the success. Well, we shall see.

freyr's mother
January 4th, 2008, 07:20 PM
There are no words to describe my feelings about this episode. I can only say. Holy ****!...... and that replicator chick was really hot. Honestly, what can be said about this episode that BAMSAR cant say for itself. It had everything.
Now we have an evil weir to deal with. lol

Sue_Jackson
January 4th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Holy crap that was awesome! That was the coolest Atlantis episode to date!

Talk about your holy crap episodes. I like the fact that both the Apollo AND the Daedalus.......Col. Caldwell.....and Col. Ellis.......together in one episode. I loved the whole colonels thing between Carter, Sheppard, Ellis, and Caldwell. That was cute.

Then.....seeing Larrin was definitely a holy crap moment. I was like cool! :D The Travellers are awesome! :D

Then....the whole working with the Wraith thing was just really weird. I was so uncomfortable with that.....but it worked.....just very weird and a bit disturbing.

Rodney building FRAN was just hilarious. That just soooo Rodney.

This episode was HUGE! The space battles were just AWESOME! :D Then....when the FRAN starting to suck up all the Replicators.....that was very cool VFX! Then.....of course.....blowing up the planet was just spectacular!

Then......just was when you thought the Replicators were completely destroyed.........






HOLY CRAP........it's Repli-Weir! :eek:


What an awesome ride! :D

scholar
January 4th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Was it Weir or repliWeir?? If it was Weir, then.... :eek: :eek: :eek: Weir's EVIL???

Why would she be evil? They showed nothing at the end of the episode that would indicate that. She's the real Weir. She'll lead her group out into some corner of the galaxy on their way at attempting to assend. Notice how it was important to her that all the replicators on that planet were gone. No more interference from the other replicators.

KatG
January 4th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Expected the replicators to survive somehow, but didn't expect to see Weir at the helm. Was totally surpriesed. Very impressed with the entire episode. This show just keeps getting better and better.

idlewild202
January 4th, 2008, 07:21 PM
I honestly did NOT see that coming. Kind of wondering if this will be our enemy in season 5....

Any who.

Usually I can always see the end or the main plot twist coming in a Stargate episode, but wow, they pulled a fast one on me.

Bravo, TPTB, bravo.
Same here as well, I can often tell what is going to happen... but that one completely caught me off guard. And I couldn't be happier :D :D

Vala_M
January 4th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Wow! What a cool episode! I wish I could give it higher than 10/10! Seeing both Earth ships togehter was cool! Caldwell and Ellis face to face was interesting, Caldwell is much taller than Ellis. And no Earth ships were destroyed! Asgard upgrades! Great! So many things happend that I can't believe they packed so much into one episode. The Asuran creation machine was interesting as was the Wraith alliance. McKay's giant Asuran blob idea was totally unexpected, I kind of figured that they'd end up making a human form Asuran, Fran! What they should have done was make another one, considering that she was peaceful and had her/him make ZPM's and such or at least show how to do it. The battle scene was amazing! The Aurora class warship was destroyed in 4 shots! Where are the shields though? I figured that the first one they destroyed was caught off guard but the Asurans seem to have a habit of not using the shield. I'm glad the Travelers are on our side now. I wonder how that will play out. It's good that Atlantis has more allies than the Genii. That was always my biggest problem with the show is that they don't have enough allies.

I'm glad we finally got the mystery of Teyla's pregnancy solved. I can't wait to find out what happend to the Athosians.

We now know for a fact that Asurans as well as the Milky Way human form Replicators require Neutronium for construction. The whole planet being destroyed was pretty cool. How did Weir's ship manage to survive? Is she the real Weir or another copy?

It could be that Niam's group hid her and created a clone and Oberoth had the clone killed figuring it was the real Weir. I hope that we will find out this season but I don't think we will since that was her 4th apperance unless there is a surprise 5th appearance.

Overall, the BEST EVER episode of STARGATE ATLANTIS to date!

Vala,

suse
January 4th, 2008, 07:23 PM
And finally the ending, holy crap, is Weir goinig to be an enemy now?

I doubt it. I think the splinter faction wasn't anywhere near the planet so can carry on trying to attain ascension. <yawn>

I despise the whole ascension storyline. SG-1 or SGA.

suse

jelgate
January 4th, 2008, 07:24 PM
Jelgate's Two CentsI know I have said this before but this has to be the best episode of season four. It was clearly an action episode, but it also had a few nice character moments. It always a joy to see Daedelus and Col. Caldwell. I don't know about the rest of the posters but I truly enjoyed watching the arguing between Ellis and McKay. What made it even more enjoyable was how Carter responded to Ellis. That right there proves to me that she is a good leader. The way she stood up to Ellis and yelled at him for his actions was a joy to see. I guess I was expecting more when it came when it came to establishing an aliance with the Wraith. I was hoping from some dialouge between Atlantis and the Wraith. I can understand that time was needed for for other scenes like the Travelers and the Teyla scenes. Larin wasn't nearly as annoying in this episode as she was in Travelers. It was very humorous that she kept Sheppard tied to the chair after they were done talking. Probably the biggest compliant on this forum is how Teyla is wallpaper. I truthfully did not feel that this was the case in this episode. The look on Sheppard's and Ronon's face was priceless. Sheppard is full of rage that she would be going offworld in her condition. I think living in the Pegasus Galaxy has made Ronon understand that pregnant woman don't relax like were use to on Earth. I am in shock that McKay would make a human form Asuran. Once again Sheppard and Carter, present the moral implications that condmeing sentinet machine to death. Even though Carter should stick to adminstartion, you can't but help but love the technobable between Carter and McKay. And finally the huge space battle between the Asurans and the Tauri/Wraith/Travelers alliaince. It was good but it wasn't as good as I was hoping for. The CGi was fantastic but I guess I was expecting more explosions. Watching the Asurans form into a giant metalic ball remined me of The Blob:). Its always a joy to see a planet blow up. I am very very curious?* to what they have in store for Weir after seeing that Weir is in charge of the surviving Asurans. It will be very interesting what they have planned for next season.
QuotesCarter:If you ever talk to anyone under my command like that again, then you will not be welcomed on my base again.

Ronon:Ronon is a good name for a boy or girl

Sweetsong
January 4th, 2008, 07:24 PM
Of course, the coalition had the element of surprise, but there's no explained reason for the Replicators to not be on very high defensive alert. Hubris perhaps, but when they were forced to retreat into a defensive formation?

That still doesn't make any sense to me, Atlantis' deep space sensors can pick up wraith ships enroute to them when they are weeks away. How could the replicators not have detected that large of a fleet headed towards them? And as I mentioned earlier, they never raised shields in the city itself, if they had there would have been no beaming down of Mckay and Fran, thus the plan would have been a bust...

starfox
January 4th, 2008, 07:27 PM
I'm not as convinced that Weir's evil as everyone else seems to be - and I'm going to assume this is the original Weir. She was glad to see the Asuran homeworld destroyed. She may have had Asuran henchmen, but Repli-Keller was Asuran, too, and she and her crew were just trying to Ascend. I'm sure that Weir has her own agenda (be it ascension, creation of an Asuran utopia, or galactal domination), and I can't wait to find out what it is. I also can't wait to see the team's reactions when they realize she's alive.

If the writers are/have been planning on this as a season 5 plotline, I must tip my hats to them, for that's some good planning and plotbuilding.

Jackie
January 4th, 2008, 07:30 PM
episode was okay...some issues though. Over all the episode felt rushed, I found larrin to be too convenient in adding addition ships--I suspected her to be a replicator or spy at that point.

I would have liked to have seen a more interaction with the wraith.

rodney's little replicator girl was not exactly needed for the ep to work. Seems more like a plot device to me..along with the giant mass of replicator blob sinking and reacting with the minerals under it--causing the planet to blow...lol. All I could think of was the blob looked like a Hershey's kiss.

Teyla's baby and father revealed...seems like they made a big ta-do about it in the press release but the actual scene fell flat. (Though Ronin suggesting his name was good for a boy or girl was cute)

Sam's role was a little better.

Zelenka was very good and so was the Wraith prisoner. I was actually pulling for the Wraith in the ep.

The battle scene seemed to be rather one sided. Suddenly the replicator ships didn't stand a chance against the rag tag fleet. No damage to the Deadelus or Apollo. Kind of s clich'e battle scene and was too much time spent on it.

Missed a major story arc with Weir...instead of showing a 10 second segment at the end the ep should have had Wier in it. She should have been a major player and the ep needed to address her issues. Whether she's good or evil should be played out in the ep...she won't be in any more eps this season and it doesn't sound like she's coming back in season 5. Really kind of leaving us hanging here and I have the impression they just did a Ford with her. Shame!

Major disappointment with Weir and what her story arc that could have been compared to what actually was.

JM's "major stroy arc" fizzled after the first 2 eps and that was it for weir. The rest have been filler eps and I still don't really know what is Atlantis's mission now!

jayphat99
January 4th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Honestly, i loved the episode as a whole BUT, when int eh name of God are we gonna learn to keep ahold of a friggin aurora class warship? Seriously, 30+ ships, we didn't think to try and keep one the whole time? Or the fact that with 35+ ZPM's on the surface, when they couldn't be overloaded, lets try and grab a couple. Comon people, thats what I was thinking about the whole episode, you're telling me the MILITARY of all people didn't have that in mind?

All in all, great episode, loved the whole Larrin/Sheppard interaction.

Rosehawk
January 4th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Yes, yes!! I am so glad that they made Weir look like she has taking over the Replicators! Weir or ReplicWeir is going to make one heck of a great bad-a$$ if they keep her character going down that path. Hope they continue the storyline in S5.
Shame that Torri's 4th episode was so short but at least it leaves the door open for some potiental down the road.

Loved how Teyla, reluctantly told Sheppard about her pregnancy and how he reacted especially since she waited so long to tell him. Even better was Ronan's reaction and his sensitive support of her. Really showed the depth of their friendship.

And I always love the scenes between Radek and Rodney! :)

Shah90
January 4th, 2008, 07:32 PM
Does anyone know the name of the actress that played Fran?
;)

Vala_M
January 4th, 2008, 07:32 PM
That still doesn't make any sense to me, Atlantis' deep space sensors can pick up wraith ships enroute to them when they are weeks away. How could the replicators not have detected that large of a fleet headed towards them? And as I mentioned earlier, they never raised shields in the city itself, if they had there would have been no beaming down of Mckay and Fran, thus the plan would have been a bust...

That always bothered me as well. They didn't detect the Apollo in "First Strike" or "Lineline" or the Daedalus when it took pictures of the shipyards. I guess it's just something the writers left out on perpose to give Earth a fighting chance against the Asurans. Or maybe the Ancients perposely left out sensor technology from the reach of the Asurans but who knows?

Vala,

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 07:32 PM
I didn't like this episode that much for the reason that the Replicator ships sucked. They were so weak its not even funny. Wraith Darts were blowing them up for goodness sake. What was that about? And we only lost one ship to that fleet. I'm sorry but that was bull $HIT. This one thing bugged me more then anything they made them so weak. Also where were the drones from the planet. I'm sorry but we should have lost several ships to the Replicators not just one Travlers ship. Don't get me wrong it was a good episode but come on they made the replicators so weak. I thought the Ancinets were supposed to be the most powerful race ever but I guess they weren't. Other then the suckness level of replicator tech I would say the episode was very good but come on we should have lost more ships.


Also if I was in charge I would have started beaming out ZPM's and boarding the Aurora class ships trying to get what ever I could from them. It was such a waste of resources for the Atlantis expedition. I mean come on let us get one ZPM or one ship out of the deal and not let all of them go to waste.


I have to say seeing Weir was unexcepted and I liked it I just hope we get a new enemy not Weir as an enemy.

Freekzilla
January 4th, 2008, 07:33 PM
UN-FREAKING BELIEVEABLE!

This episode alone almost makes up for a lot of bad episodes. The only real nitpick I have, it went by way too fast. They should have made this a two hour special. There was plenty of material that they could have delved into more. No doubt about it, this certainly should have been a two hour special. I actually caught myself saying holy crap several times.

The teyla "I'm pregnant" scene: Sheppard wasn't "abrupt", he was obviously hurt. Listen to what he says and how he says it. His feelings were very hurt. Ronon, kinda knew something was up, but kept quite until then.

Good to see McKay really get dressed down for a change, he needed to be called to the carpet for all his foolishness. But it was also good to see Carter stick up for her team and for Ellis get spanked for his impatience.

And boy oh boy those Asgard weapons sure are strong! I think the Asgard legacy can be said to almost rival the Ancients now. Better beaming/transport tech, almost equal weapons, less power hungry shields, awesome hyperdrives, and generally more power efficient tech, it all adds up that even though they may not have been as grand, they were more than capable of standing shoulder to shoulder with the Ancients' legacy. (Plus, the Asgard actively worked to make things right, and to protect people's lives.)

MARTIN GERO WROTE THIS EP! ALL HAIL MARTIN GERO!! *bows*

There's just so many questions this episode raises. Are all the Reps really dead? I don't think so. Is Weir the new baddy? I think uh huh. Is Todd going to get major props for what he did? Whoa yeah. Will there be tension between Teyla and Sheppard now? I think so. Are the Wraith going to turn on Atlantis? Oh yea, they know now that Atlantis is an even bigger threat with their new weapons.

All in all, this was just a fun, entertaining, and good episode. Not very cerebral, but you don't need, nor do I want, those all the time.

Sweetsong
January 4th, 2008, 07:35 PM
Or the fact that with 35+ ZPM's on the surface, when they couldn't be overloaded, lets try and grab a couple.

That thought briefly crossed my mind, with the replicators gone, how will they steal a couple ZPMs again the next time the need arises.

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 07:36 PM
That thought briefly crossed my mind, with the replicators gone, how will they steal a couple ZPMs again the next time the need arises.

Thats what I didn't like it was such a waste of resources. We have beaming and senor tech for a reason why not beam every ZPM we could and then leave we had the time.

ann_sgcfan
January 4th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Wow!! Loved the episode from start to finish!

I couldn't believe they could have destroyed the replicators in just one episode... I was thinking there has got to be more! Sure enough the surprise ending was great! I didn't see it coming. So Weir is the leader of the replicators that's pretty cool! I mean who would be a more formidable enemy than someone who knows everything about Atlantis. If she is truly the replicator Weir.

Teyla telling Ronon and John about her pregnancy. John not very happy about it...Ronon holding her hand and congratulating her and walking her to the infirmary... It was a cute scene between them. I am sure John will come around. I feel bad for Teyla because she is going through so much alone... I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with this story arc.

Sam dressing down an officer for how he treated Rodney was priceless. Loved that moment! Rodney and Zelenka working together is always funny. I love seeming them in scenes together... and I liked Sam and McKay working together at the very end.

There was some funny moment and light hearted moments. Great battle scenes and great special effects.

Overall a great episode!! :D One of my favorites of the season so far!

suse
January 4th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Better than I thought it would be. Especially as I was...less than impressed... with This Mortal Coil.

Loved Sam taking up for McKay. :D Coolness, just telling it like it is to the Colonel. :D

I got a guffaw at John (comb your hair!!) Sheppard taking the opportunity to look down Larrin's top. Never misses, does he?

Again with McKay talking about himself when he should be working. <sigh> At least it was toned down a bit.

Way for Teyla to spring "I'm preggers" on Shep. What other reaction should he have had? He was responsible for her. I really hope she has something more to do this season. If this is the extent of her "dark path" I'm gonna be mad.

Still, I loved Ronon's response. He's officially my favorite SGA character - but still closely followed by Sam. ;)

I don't buy that Sam would have accepted Fran so quickly. Not after Fifth. She believed him sentient. Though in the interest of time and not getting bogged down in arguements I can see her leaving it til later. :S I'm thinking later in fanfic because I certainly don't believe TPTB will ever touch on Fran again.

Weir. :S <sigh> How much do you wanna bet that the 'I want ascension' replicators will want that machins that spurred Rodney to almost ascend? :( :(

All that being said, for SGA this was a great hope of entertainment. Much better than most of the season.

I think I might be able to watch it more than once. Which is high praise indeed as I haven't watched any Stargate more than once for over two years.

It was fun.

suse

jelgate
January 4th, 2008, 07:38 PM
Thats what I didn't like it was such a waste of resources. We have beaming and senor tech for a reason why not beam every ZPM we could and then leave we had the time.The Asuran fleet was in our way

McKayManiacs92
January 4th, 2008, 07:41 PM
Loved how Teyla, reluctantly told Sheppard about her pregnancy and how he reacted especially since she waited so long to tell him. Even better was Ronan's reaction and his sensitive support of her. Really showed the depth of their friendship.

Yes, I loved that part of the episode...after the last episode it kind of seemed hard for them/producers to keep writing Teyla to wear clothing that could continue to hide her belly....so I was waiting for that! And I really loved the bonding with Ronan.........and Sheppard's reaction was understandable seeing what she could have done with a child on the way!



Amazinging episode overall for me...I loved it!!!! best this season for me so far!!!!!!

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 07:42 PM
The Asuran fleet was in our way

Then how did we beam rodney and company in and out?

ussrelativity
January 4th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Anyone with screencaps?

TheJediSpectre
January 4th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Yes, I loved that part of the episode...after the last episode it kind of seemed hard for them/producers to keep writing Teyla to wear clothing that could continue to hide her belly....so I was waiting for that! And I really loved the bonding with Ronan.........and Sheppard's reaction was understandable seeing what she could have done with a child on the way!


I think John is just looking out for Teyla & Teyla probably does not fully realize what she can get herself into. Especially since John has all of SG-1s history to go on I understand him being over protective like that.

Anubis21
January 4th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Best episode of stargate i have ever seen. Be all my sins remember'd excellent.

majorsal
January 4th, 2008, 07:45 PM
i'm sooo excited to see this episode! :D i have one hour and 15 minutes to go. though i have to worry about my stupid cable company deciding to give a flash flood alert through the ep! (has had to hear so many already, and the flooding isn't even in my direct area. argh and more stressy argh)

*sam!* :D



sally :D

luvmac
January 4th, 2008, 07:47 PM
I loved this episode. The last two episodes have restored my love for Stargate Atlantis that seemed to waning this season. It was a great episode for action, I loved the character interaction (especially when Carter defended McKay and John/Ronan found out that Teyla was pregnant.) and I was very surprised by the ending.

**looks around and whispers - I even liked Carter this episode and I haven't liked her in a long time. She did what a leader would do and defended one of her members and supported Rodney.**

I hope that this keeps up and that the rest of the episodes this season as much as I enjoyed tonight's episode.

One question though, when did the replicators start making their ships out of the same material that they are made out of. I know that in First Strike a big deal was made out of the fact that the ships were made with regular materials and could be destroyed like any other ship. When Rodney's program began drawing the replicators from space it didn't just draw the people it also drew in the ships also. So did the replicators start making their ships from the same material they were made of?

jelgate
January 4th, 2008, 07:48 PM
Then how did we beam rodney and company in and out?The transmitters that are inplanted in their bodies.

Myles
January 4th, 2008, 07:49 PM
I loved this episode. The last two episodes have restored my love for Stargate Atlantis that seemed to waning this season. It was a great episode for action, I loved the character interaction (especially when Carter defended McKay and John/Ronan found out that Teyla was pregnant.) and I was very surprised by the ending.

**looks around and whispers - I even liked Carter this episode and I haven't liked her in a long time. She did what a leader would do and defended one of her members and supported Rodney.**

I hope that this keeps up and that the rest of the episodes this season as much as I enjoyed tonight's episode.

One question though, when did the replicators start making their ships out of the same material that they are made out of. I know that in First Strike a big deal was made out of the fact that the ships were made with regular materials and could be destroyed like any other ship. When Rodney's program began drawing the replicators from space it didn't just draw the people it also drew in the ships also. So did the replicators start making their ships from the same material they were made of?

The ships stayed where they were. You could see them sitting there as they went into hyperspace as the planet blew up.

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 07:49 PM
That still doesn't make any sense to me, Atlantis' deep space sensors can pick up wraith ships enroute to them when they are weeks away. How could the replicators not have detected that large of a fleet headed towards them?

That's an extremely good point which I missed. I don't think there is a single explanation that can account for this. Maybe hubris, again, but that's really a stretch for Replicators so well known for their ability to quickly adapt.

If Atlantis could track Wraith hives inbound to the city with with weeks of advanced warning using Alteran technology, how could Asurans not manage to do the same while in a state of war?

It seems that the SGA writers are having continuity issues. By making the show's stories rely on technical details as plot elements, they have imposed limitations on what they can do. To tell a good story, it seems that they have to break from the previously-established rules of the Pegasus galaxy. It's really rather disheartening.

garhkal
January 4th, 2008, 07:50 PM
OMG, Caldwell and Daedalus leading the armada....holy *****

You took the words right out of my mouth, and their first battle together with the new upgrades... Oh man was i having a joygazum..


May I be the first to say, FRAN is undeniably hot.


Not reall, but i would never kick her out of my bed..


Holy "lots of things going on in this episode" batman.
Teaming up with the wraith, the travelers, and creating their own human form replicator, and Teyla finally revealing her pregnancy.

Shepards reaction to Teyla's pregnancy was quite abrupt, "You are releaved from active duty!" But I totally loved that ronon was there to console her, and held her hand as they walked to the infirmary, awww!


The way she did it, left me wondering just why she held off.. And Sheps reaction, imo was wayyyyyyy over the top..



Couple of things though, the replicators must have detected that huge fleet headed towards them, why did they not raise shields allowing mckay and crew to beam into the city to complete their mission?

Plot hole... WE know they have the same sensors or better as we do on Atlantis, and unlike us, they have more than enough power to operate them at their fullest... AS to the beam blocking, who knows, maybe they cannot block it as they have never intergrated that type of tech into themselves..



And finally the ending, holy crap, is Weir goinig to be an enemy now?

Who knows, but i do wonder what she was saying with the "now we can get to work" statement..


figures mckay will make a sexy weapon :lol:


I am actually surprised he did not make her sexier.. All the women he has 'fixated on' were a lot bustier than she was...



the battle got better as it went on.

That it did, though i wonder what happened with most of those drones Shep fired at that one 'escaping' replicator ship.. A good chunk of them seemed to explode well before they hit anything..



...and we didn't get stabbed in the back!

Perhaps that is later to come.. OR perhaps this wraith finally has realised showing honor towards us will be in their best interest..


I'd love it if the replicators were Niam supporters.

I have a feeling they just might be.. Either that or yet another off shot of the main group..
Heck they coudl even be an off shot that wier caused.



Oh and by the way the aurora's were very dissapointing against the asgard weapons. I expected a bit more from them.

I will give you that, though maybe that is cause those first few ships we destroyed did not have shields up yet.. Remember how quickly the orion fell..?



-Apparently replicator ships don't have shields? I mean, these were the ancients they're imitating. Didn't seem like the technology was on par, however.


Early on, i would agree, but the longer it went, the more we saw shields come into play...


Fran! "Hello." Line of the episode.

I agree. That line alone deserves the props for how funny it was..


Teyla's pregnancy is in the open and the crew's reactions were realistic and dead on. John was concerned and Ronon was sympathetic, a great move out of his usual tough guy bit.

Concerned is one thing, how he fliped out on her was way out of line imo.. BUT ronon;s congrats was very nice..



I LOVED Larrin's return ("Sheppard that better not be you!" "Sheppard what the hell are you doing here?" "Larrin what the hell are you doing here?"), and their subplot is actually moving forward at a great rate

Who would have thought they were going to be in this.. I loved her reaction o him and you could almost see the 'oh no' look on sheps face..


McKay and Zelenka are still completely awesome, and the "dry spell" was hilarious

Yes that was very good of them 2.. But it did make me think.. Rodney has done miraculus things in the past, but when his ass was not on the line it seemed he flunked out... Until now.


The battle: Forget BSG, SG:A has the best battles on TV. That was just...wow. The panning camera, the detail, and the overall epicness of it was perfect.

I actually felt it was not long enough..




6/5 stars, best episode of the best season of the show. Bring on Spoils of War!

That makes me think the spoils might have something to do with the now unoccupied auroras of the replicators..
If any survived the explosion..


Quite simply the best special effects we have ever seen on this show.

Very true, but it was a little too much in one instance.. Nearly every other time we have seen the jumper fly over water to Atlantis, i at least felt it looked real enough.. Tonights when they were returning it looked way to cartonny for me.



Really loved Carter putting Ellis in his place even though Ellis was right.

That was very good to see, and i do agree, Ellis was right. BUT at least in the end he had enough gumption to give credit to Mccay when he finally proved right.



I really liked how they didn't get into the whole moral argument about using Fran as a weapon since Fran shut the argument down by saying she was fulfilling her purpose.

I felt they might get into that, especially as Mccay even started to seemed like he was questioning it, just before they went into battle... But even the real reps were still just performing their purpose...


More importantly to me is that the Atlantis team managed not to actually stab any of their "allies" in the back!! Yay!!!


That is very true.. we did not. Heck it left it open for the travellers to return..


First thoughts:
Funny to see Caldwell more supportive of Atlantis than Ellis. But Caldwell has seen the team in action. What's with Ellis, anyway?

Maybe as the new kid on the block he feels he needs to stand up and be a man... And i do agree, Cadwell was great showing his unyielding support for the team.


Yay, Radek!

Agreed. I did not get enough of him this ep.



OK, now we don't have to worry about feeding that Wraith anymore.


True dat.. But i wonder if he has fed since Millers crossing.


but this episode completely changed that, like Sheppard said "All is right with the universe"

As Austin Powers would say "HE got his mojo back".



* Wraith humor - love that guy. Sorry to see him go.

I actually did not think he was being humorous.. But i do agree, it is sad to see him go.



* the team (minus McKay) getting stunned by the drones out of a need for privacy. Sheppard does unconscious so well (oops, wrong thread). And needing to stun Ronon several times so he didn't wake up first!

Agreed. And it shows just how much "tod" respects him to not only wake him BUT give him back his gun..



* Wraith info: some hives are without queens (is that why a male was running the hive in Sateda?) and the queens are needed to create the soldiers. Now I'm really looking forward to next week.

That was one heck of a revelation.. How do the queens make the soldiers though? Is it like bees and ants?



* seeing everyone around the conference table and then the fleet together - Wraith, Lantians, Travelers, Tauri - what an alliance

ALmost beats the Asgard, Nox, Furlings and Atlanteans in their alliance..



* the complete annihilation of the replicators...

Part of me hopes some were elsewhere so at least they are not fully gone.


And how the hell did she manage to stay hidden during that battle? And why weren't her nanites affected by Rodney's weapon? And... oh never mind.!

I am thinking they showed up AFTER the planet blew up...


Even though Carter should stick to adminstartion, you can't but help but love the technobable between Carter and McKay.

Not only was it good, but it actually showed how much each other gells with one another.



I would have liked to have seen a more interaction with the wraith.


Agreed. WE could have done with a few minutes or so more..


Honestly, i loved the episode as a whole BUT, when int eh name of God are we gonna learn to keep ahold of a friggin aurora class warship?

They probabily did not have time to grab any..


I didn't like this episode that much for the reason that the Replicator ships sucked. They were so weak its not even funny. Wraith Darts were blowing them up for goodness sake. What was that about? And we only lost one ship to that fleet. I'm sorry but that was bull $HIT. This one thing bugged me more then anything they made them so weak. Also where were the drones from the planet. I'm sorry but we should have lost several ships to the Replicators not just one Travlers ship.

I am agreeing with you there that it was very funny that we were pawning them so easily and only lost the one traveler ship and what (to me) looked like 2 wraith ships, but that did not lessen the greatness of the ep to me.


UN-FREAKING BELIEVEABLE!

This episode alone almost makes up for a lot of bad episodes. The only real nitpick I have, it went by way too fast. They should have made this a two hour special. There was plenty of material that they could have delved into more. No doubt about it, this certainly should have been a two hour special. I actually caught myself saying holy crap several times.

I agree. This could have easily been made into a 2 hr special mid season ep.. They could have done with more on the whole wraith coming into the situation, the travelers, heck even with Mccay and Fran..


Are the Wraith going to turn on Atlantis? Oh yea, they know now that Atlantis is an even bigger threat with their new weapons.
.

That is actually a very good question.. Now with the asurans supposedly gone, will the wraith come at us full force?


When Rodney's program began drawing the replicators from space it didn't just draw the people it also drew in the ships also. So did the replicators start making their ships from the same material they were made of?

No it did not. If you watch closely enough you see all those Auroras still there just before the planet went BOOM!

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 07:51 PM
The transmitters that are inplanted in their bodies.

But their was a black out in the city so they had no shields to prevent the 304's from scanning and then beaming up all of the ZPM's other then the TPTB not wanting us to get to strong also McKay knew where they all were as he at the main power station

Eri13
January 4th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Hmmm...I enjoyed bits and pieces of the episode, but I have to say the last 30 seconds made it for me. I enjoyed that a lot more than I thought I would, though I'm disappointed we won't follow it up in Season 4 anymore.

I really liked the 'Rodney off his game' joke, and the Teyla revelation--especially John and Ronan's reactions--it was nice to see Ronan take the sympathetic, accepting side and John be the caveman a**.

Also nice to see Carter actively involved and helping McKay solve things.

But the last 30 seconds--jeez, that changed the tide of the whole episode for me. Now I'm intrigued, and frankly, all the speculation about whether Torri is returning needs to be answered! That wasn't just left 'open', that was the set up of a story arc that I hope they follow through with! Even just on the early reviews and responses, we've seen that people can't tell whether she was good, bad, real, repli!Weir, what. I want to know where it goes and how the Atlantis team will deal with it.

starfox
January 4th, 2008, 07:52 PM
One question though, when did the replicators start making their ships out of the same material that they are made out of. I know that in First Strike a big deal was made out of the fact that the ships were made with regular materials and could be destroyed like any other ship. When Rodney's program began drawing the replicators from space it didn't just draw the people it also drew in the ships also. So did the replicators start making their ships from the same material they were made of?

I don't think it had to do with the materials so much as it had to do with how the ships were made. The replicators make things with certain programming encoded into every cell. Fran uploaded a sort of magnet program that called every cell with that programming within viable range to her side. That's why the ships broke apart and got sucked to the planet.

freyr's mother
January 4th, 2008, 07:54 PM
With these upgrades, our ships have now been upgraded to the class of battle carrier. Also, i thought they were going to supe up our railguns?

mi4si
January 4th, 2008, 07:56 PM
I liked the episode and it helped that it was the first time I've seen Atlantis in HD

Briangate78
January 4th, 2008, 07:56 PM
But the last 30 seconds--jeez, that changed the tide of the whole episode for me. Now I'm intrigued, and frankly, all the speculation about whether Torri is returning needs to be answered! That wasn't just left 'open', that was the set up of a story arc that I hope they follow through with! Even just on the early reviews and responses, we've seen that people can't tell whether she was good, bad, real, repli!Weir, what. I want to know where it goes and how the Atlantis team will deal with it.

Totally Agree! The chance for Weir to return just like tripled! So many questions and story arcs can result from a 30 second scene. I love this frelling show!!!

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 07:56 PM
With these upgrades, our ships have now been upgraded to the class of battle carrier. Also, i thought they were going to supe up our railguns?

Yeah how the hell did our rail guns hurt the replicator ships? Normally rail guns can't even beat a ha'tak but somehow they were able to damage Ancinet Level Shields? In terms of tech this episode sucked

In terms of fun and laughter and connections I liked it

Ruffles
January 4th, 2008, 07:58 PM
I actually did not think he was being humorous.. But i do agree, it is sad to see him go.

I was thinking of the part where he asks to have the chains removed because they might not make the best impression.


I am thinking they showed up AFTER the planet blew up...

Possibly. I wonder where they were monitoring the battle from if that was the case.

ToasterOnFire
January 4th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Somewhat solid ep, though it felt like they tried to cram too much into this ep. Lots of exposition too, especially in the meetings (did Rodney really have to explain to the viewers how the Deddy and Apollo were refitted?).

So...they killed off the replicators by turning them into The Blob. Uh...yeah... :S

THANK YOU for not blowing up yet another ship. Nice to be proven wrong.

Larrin can never come back and I'll be perfectly happy. Pointless character.

No real point for Fran either. Did Rodney really have to make the cells into something so close to human? Did Carter and Rodney really have to have such a weak dialog about the rights of Fran? It added little to the story.

LOVED Ronon's touching response to Teyla's big reveal.Far better than Shepper's pissy little rant, anyway (Yeah Shep, pregnant Athosian women never ran the risk of encountering wraith stunners :rolleyes:). I far prefer this side to Ronon than him always acting tough and telling Rodney to stuff it. Ronon has really grown on me as a character.

Ellis was totally in the right for calling out McKay. Rodney wasted everyone's time at the initial meeting and then convinced everyone of deadlines he couldn't keep. And Ellis didn't take Carter's "dressing down" seriously either (nor did I, I wasn't impressed with her delivery) - he was right back on McKay after she talked to him.

Weir, evil? Nah, I saw her as happy that the replicators were gone so her team could resume their pursuit of ascension. It could be the real Weir or a replicant, but I'm leaning toward the latter. Nice to see that she assumed command there too. ;)

(That wasn't Torri's official fourth and last ep, was it? If it was, that was an even more pathetic use of her character than Adrift. 10 seconds hardly constitutes appearing in an ep.)

talula
January 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Absolutely Fabulous.

Ridiculously lovely character development (Ronon being supportive of Teyla- heartbreaking)

Fabulously funny parts (Rodney: 'Have I told you about the time that...' Wraith: 'Yes you have')

Space battles! (no parenthesis needed)

Twists (Rodney making a replicator. Elizabeth!)

Samantha Carter and Rodney McKay actually working together like I've wanted them to since she got there.

The whole thing was fantastic. Terrific. Have never been happier to love this show.

luvmac
January 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM
The ships stayed where they were. You could see them sitting there as they went into hyperspace as the planet blew up.


I saw about three ships that were still remaining that blew up with the planet. I just thought they were part of the attack armanda that didn't have a chance to jump to hyperspace before the explosion. But it looked to me in the scene with Ellis and the crewman talking about the Apollo not being able to take more hits that the entire Asuran ships in front of them were breaking apart and being sucked into Fran. I think it's getting ready to show again on SciFi so I'm going to go watch that scene again.

fani
January 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Now this is what I'm talking about....

Absolutely the best Stargate episode I've seen in a while.
I had goosebumps just watching the ships, enemies banded together with a common purpose.

I would've liked to see some more blasting from the sky and some more close quarters battle in the sky and inside replicator world, but what I got was superb.

My earlier post also called for an all out 3-way war with such intense battles.
I didn't think I would be rewarded so soon..

Excellent, excellent episode. A solid 10/10.

This is quality Stargate.

jenks
January 4th, 2008, 08:00 PM
That's an extremely good point which I missed. I don't think there is a single explanation that can account for this. Maybe hubris, again, but that's really a stretch for Replicators so well known for their ability to quickly adapt.

If Atlantis could track Wraith hives inbound to the city with with weeks of advanced warning using Alteran technology, how could Asurans not manage to do the same while in a state of war?

It seems that the SGA writers are having continuity issues. By making the show's stories rely on technical details as plot elements, they have imposed limitations on what they can do. To tell a good story, it seems that they have to break from the previously-established rules of the Pegasus galaxy. It's really rather disheartening.

Actually, as far as I can remember we only know of the long range sensors tracking Wraith hive ships. I think it's well within the realms of possibility that the sensors can't (or more likely don't) track 304's and the Travelers ships, so considering they had their entire fleet in orbit, I don't think 7 hives on their way would bother them too much.

starfox
January 4th, 2008, 08:03 PM
Concerned is one thing, how he fliped out on her was way out of line imo.. BUT ronon;s congrats was very nice..



I would disagree with you on Sheppard's reaction. He established in "Sateda" that his team is the closest thing he has to a family. And "Doppelganger" established that he fears failing his team. So he just had someone close to him who is also under his command come up and reveal that she's been getting beat up and shot at - both things that could possibly cause a miscarriage - while pregnant. He's been ordering her into situations that could get her baby killed. Also, pregnancy puts a hell of a strain on the body, so anything that affected the baby would affect Teyla as well. Plus, Sheppard's USAF, and there's got to be something in the rule book about pregnant women in combat. Athosian women may traditionally remain active during pregnancy, but there's a marked difference between working out in the gym or in the fields and taking a chance at being shot, stabbed, exposed to wonky alien entities, etc.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
January 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM
If Atlantis could track Wraith hives inbound to the city with with weeks of advanced warning using Alteran technology, how could Asurans not manage to do the same while in a state of war?

Those hiveships were moving rather slowly, taking weeks to arrive at Atlantis because they were stopping to cull planets along the way. The Asurans should have had much less advance warning, but definitely some.

Was it mentioned that they were surprised by the arrival of the fleet or not? I can't remember. If they did know, they may not have considered 10+ ships a match for their 30.

I'd like to coin the term Locutus of Weir. Not in a derogatory sense, just as a cool nickname. I'm thrilled at this development because it's surprising and an interesting new direction for the actress.

Wilson3Girl
January 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM
* Carter b****-slapping Ellis for the way he treated McKay. You go, girl!
* Fran - of course McKay would create a hot girl but she was helpful and understood her purpose (and how many of us can say that?)


I loved these parts too. Fran was great! I loved how Sam smacked down Ellis too. Maybe now that Ellis has seen Rodney's work he won't be such a "tool" (as Rodney calls him) toward McKay. I did like their back and forth arguing but when Ellis challenged his manhood........you go Sam! To be fair though, Atlantis people know Rodney very well and Ellis has just started working with him.
I am loving the Sam-Rodney technospeak stuff. I love it when Rodney and Zelenka do it and now Sam gets to play too. I know she's busy running Atlantis but maybe she can have some geek speak with McKay and Zelenka from time to time. I enjoy it.
Ronon was so sweet. I loved him taking Teyla's hand and walking her to the infirmary and his congratulations were so heartfelt. Of course Shep would be horrified to find out that Teyla was pregnant after all the danger they'd been in lately--I would be shocked if he was all smiles and flowers. In the previews for next week it looked like she was in full gear and had a weapon? I guess we'll see.........

Overall I thought it was a terrific episode. Kudos to Marty G!

Wilson3Girl

Malakriss
January 4th, 2008, 08:06 PM
The ships the replicator ships were ordinary, however when Fran was sucking them all down to the surface it's not like they left out the airlock. Each of the replicator cells simply forced their way through the hull, which obviously disabled or destroyed most of them. The leftovers were destroyed when the entire planet collapsed.

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 08:06 PM
I don't know about the reviews you folks are giving the episode. Sure it was good, and a great story, but the details just don't stand to scrutiny. Technological continuity really is lacking in this one. Considering how many plot holes have been raised in this thread in just the hour after the first airing, I can't say it stands well against SG1 or earlier SGA. Good, but absolutely not a 10/10.

rarocks24
January 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM
* Fran - of course McKay would create a hot girl but she was helpful and understood her purpose (and how many of us can say that?)

Mckay would create a hot girl, but I don't think it was intentional. Mckay has a fetish for blondes, and she definitely wasn't blonde.

Malakriss
January 4th, 2008, 08:09 PM
I don't know about the reviews you folks are giving the episode. Sure it was good, and a great story, but the details just don't stand to scrutiny. Technological continuity really is lacking in this one. Considering how many plot holes have been raised in this thread in just the hour after the first airing, I can't say it stands well against SG1 or earlier SGA. Good, but absolutely not a 10/10.

Which plot hole are you referring to? Most have already been discounted.

Rosehawk
January 4th, 2008, 08:11 PM
I think John is just looking out for Teyla & Teyla probably does not fully realize what she can get herself into. Especially since John has all of SG-1s history to go on I understand him being over protective like that.

Actually I do think that Teyla realized what she can get herself into. The reality of how much a pregnancy can change ones life usually takes some getting use to and for many women you want things to stay the same, but they can't.

Plus I think deep down inside Teyla is looking for Caan and she can't do that without going through the gate.

prion
January 4th, 2008, 08:11 PM
Mckay would create a hot girl, but I don't think it was intentional. Mckay has a fetish for blondes, and she definitely wasn't blonde.

Yeah, but he's dating Katie Brown now, so perhaps he's over his youthful infatuation with blondes ;)

I give this episode, um, an 8 out of 10. Good, but not great.

Out of curiosity, why did Carter spend time squeezing into Barbarella black leather outfit if all she's going to do is SIT in a chair on the Daedalus??

ussrelativity
January 4th, 2008, 08:11 PM
Any screencaps yet? Or perhaps 720p screencaps?

I'll check back tomorrow.

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Which plot hole are you referring to? Most have already been discounted.

The tech part. They made the reps so weak its not even funny. They had more ships, better tech (supposely) and a planet with drones but all they took out was one travlers ship and a fe wraith ships when the attacking fleet should have lost so more. Also the fact that we were blowing rep ships up like they were Al'keshs. The Rep ships were supposed to be the most powerful war ship created by the ancinets yet they were so inferior it makes me so angry

Silverbeacher
January 4th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Actually, as far as I can remember we only know of the long range sensors tracking Wraith hive ships. I think it's well within the realms of possibility that the sensors can't (or more likely don't) track 304's and the Travelers ships, so considering they had their entire fleet in orbit, I don't think 7 hives on their way would bother them too much.

i really didn't feel like going on a tangent on tech but it seems to have come up enough that I am going to mention it. If the Atlantis sensors are [I]that[I] good, we wouldn't even needed the core drive from an Aurora-class to track the Replicators anyhow, we would have been able to do it on our own.

We also don't know the distance between Atlantis, the Staging Point, and the Repli Homeworld; it could have been out of their range. We do know that the Atlantis sensors do not cover the entire Pegasus galaxy (if they did, we would know where all the Hive ships are too).

Finally, even if the did see us coming, the Replicators are rather full of themselves.

As an addendum, the first Repli-Aurora's did not have their shields up, but they did later in the battle, there are scenes of the weapon fire hitting their shields. We also don't know the full extent of the damage to the Allied Fleet; we know that at least 1 Traveler Cruiser was destroyed, but I would guess that a few Hive ships were lost, the Travelers prolly took heavy damage (due to their inferior tech levels), and that, while not shown, using the dialogue that was said aboard the Apollo I believe, that their own shields were failing, so they (Apollo and Daedy) suffered at least some serious damage.

Anlaria Onyx
January 4th, 2008, 08:13 PM
I just wanted to pop my head in and say I loved BAMSR. One of my favorite episodes of the season! I'm really excited to see the spotlight back on the Wraith as the bad guys. They are my all time favorite villains.

The one thing I didn't like was...

Larrin. Did they really have to bring her back?!

rarocks24
January 4th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Yeah, but he's dating Katie Brown now, so perhaps he's over his youthful infatuation with blondes ;)

I give this episode, um, an 8 out of 10. Good, but not great.

Out of curiosity, why did Carter spend time squeezing into Barbarella black leather outfit if all she's going to do is SIT in a chair on the Daedalus??

He's been seeing Katie Brown for quite awhile now, but he still fantasizes over blondes. ;) The Game and Grace Under Pressure to name a few.

wraithfound
January 4th, 2008, 08:14 PM
LOVED Ronon's touching response to Teyla's big reveal.Far better than Shepper's pissy little rant, anyway (Yeah Shep, pregnant Athosian women never ran the risk of encountering wraith stunners :rolleyes:). I far prefer this side to Ronon than him always acting tough and telling Rodney to stuff it. Ronon has really grown on me as a character.

Totally agree:) I like this side of Ronon alot better then his "*huh* I'm a caveman, fear me" act. And Sheppard, well defeniatly jealous, but not even congradulating her or showing any form of support is just jerkish.

I thought this episode was AMAZING! I almost didn't watch it since I consider the previous half of season four a big pile of fruit cakes, (hate fruit cakes, then again, who doesn't?) Glad I watched it though:) There may be hope for the season yet!

Yeah Weir! I hope she doesn't turn into a bad guy though:( That would just be ....well....wrong, to me.

Fran seemed like a huge help and she wasn't a huge threat, so why not make a Fran 2 to help out? Yeah, ot goin' to happen I know, but I like to think it could:)

Chezlee
January 4th, 2008, 08:14 PM
But their was a black out in the city so they had no shields to prevent the 304's from scanning and then beaming up all of the ZPM's other then the TPTB not wanting us to get to strong also McKay knew where they all were as he at the main power station

Doesnt the power have to be on to get them to disengage and "rise" or whatever out of their ports? if there was no power maybe there was no way for Mckay to disconnect them in the time he had. BTW how would the ships be able to find the ZPMs, time WAS short...

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Doesnt the power have to be on to get them to disengage and "rise" or whatever out of their ports? if there was no power maybe there was no way for Mckay to disconnect them in the time he had. BTW how would the ships be able to find the ZPMs, time WAS short...

Well seeing as how the plan needed the ZPM's to overload wouldn't someone need to find them to make sure they were in the right place

Also during the battle couldn't one guy just start scanning the planet for them? Its not like we weren't more then holding our own against the reps fleet. So why not scan and take the chance

Also when the black out occured thats when I would beam like crazy to get the ZPMs. Shields were down so it would have been easy to beam out the ZPM's I'm just tired of every episode trying to find a ZPM this way they could focus on a new plot.

Malakriss
January 4th, 2008, 08:19 PM
The tech part. They made the reps so weak its not even funny. They had more ships, better tech (supposely) and a planet with drones but all they took out was one travlers ship and a fe wraith ships when the attacking fleet should have lost so more. Also the fact that we were blowing rep ships up like they were Al'keshs. The Rep ships were supposed to be the most powerful war ship created by the ancinets yet they were so inferior it makes me so angry

30 Replicator ships which utilized the same technology as the ancients 10,000 years ago vs. 2 Asgard enhanced Battleships w/ fleet of 302s, group of Traveler ships which have technology equivalent or better than the Replicators (but limited numbers), and 7 Hive Ships w/ fleet of Darts. I'd say about even, but our whole plan of attack was simply distraction until Fran ripped every Replicator right out through the hull, rendering every ship neutralized.

How's that a Plot Hole?

Other points:
- Ships did have shields, first ones were simply ambushed right out of hyperspace
- Asgard beaming can go through ZPM powered city shields, proved way back in The Siege Part III when Ford was beamed through
- Long range sensors pick up the incoming ships, how does that alter any part of the battle? Everyone knew it was coming.

Franklyn Blaze
January 4th, 2008, 08:22 PM
While I liked the show and all, I always hate when Martin gero invents new ancient tech or something that the Atlantis team "knew about all along" but we never saw before. Kind of a let down. Also I didn't see any shields on the first rep ship that was destroyed, you know being in a wraith infested galaxy and all...

I'm torn on this ep, it looked great. But when you concieve and carry out an attack plan all in one episode that nearly destroys every a superpowerful enemy with hardly any losses it's kind of far fetched. I'll have to watch it over.

Chezlee
January 4th, 2008, 08:22 PM
I'm just tired of every episode trying to find a ZPM this way they could focus on a new plot.

I agree, as if beating down 30 asuran ships AND managing to jack their ZPMs would be a little much in the sense of believability. It would have made the Replicators look even more weak then the battle did

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 08:24 PM
30 Replicator ships which utilized the same technology as the ancients 10,000 years ago vs. 2 Asgard enhanced Battleships w/ fleet of 302s, group ofTraveler ships which have technology equivalent or better than the Replicators, and 7 Hive Ships w/ fleet of Darts. I'd say about even, but our whole plan of attack was simply distraction until Fran ripped every Replicator right out through the hull, rendering every ship neutralized.

How's that a Plot Hole?

More ships should have been destroyed and the travlers tech is no where near that of the Ancinets, they needed our help to get battle ready and then when shppard asked to finsih the job she said she needed to do it herself (or something), and seven hives isn't that great against 30 Aurora class


Also why would the Reps be taken off guard if they knew they were coming on long range scanners?
I believe the Ancinets lost was the fact they didn't have numbers so lets see

30 Aurora Class ships with Ancient Level tech vs 14 or so ships of inferior tech

Hmmm who should win or who should at least take greater losses.

I mean they made the Ancients shields so weak that our rail guns were able to tear a rep ship up with ease.


That is the reason I don't like this episode

Chezlee
January 4th, 2008, 08:28 PM
30 Aurora Class ships with Ancient Level tech vs 14 or so ships of inferior tech

Hmmm who should win or who should at least take greater losses.

I mean they made the Ancients shields so weak that our rail guns were able to tear a rep ship up with ease.


That is the reason I don't like this episode

And still some think they should have taken some ZPMs to

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 08:29 PM
I agree, as if beating down 30 asuran ships AND managing to jack their ZPMs would be a little much in the sense of believability. It would have made the Replicators look even more weak then the battle did

At least we could have gotten three or four would have been fine I knew they couldn't get them all but come on get something out of this deal. It just made me so angry to watch this epsiode and get nothing at all.

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 08:31 PM
And still some think they should have taken some ZPMs to

We were killing them in space why not take a few ZPMs. If the battle was actually a battle then no don't go for the ZPMs but nope we were destroying them in space it was a one sided battle completly

Silverbeacher
January 4th, 2008, 08:31 PM
i thought of this after i posted my last one on the tech. To be honest, since the battle scene was so short, we don't really know all that was happening, but I theorize, that things were good for us at the start but the replicators were getting the upper hand later on. Only because of the Big Blob did we manage to pull through the battle. I'm still going with that we suffered more damage than was actually seen in battle, using dialogue, precedence, and screen shots.

Chailyn
January 4th, 2008, 08:31 PM
I've been waiting all season for an episode like this! I loved it because it was just pure fun. The sight of the armada approaching together was beyond thrilling. Loved that Atlantis, the Travelers, and the Wraith all found a way to make it happen. I kept thinking that either the Wraith would betray us or the Travelers would attack the Wraith, or WE'D attack the Wraith, leaving someone behind to go boom. But, happily there was no double-crossing going on. For SGA, it was actually refreshing.

And I have to say that this is the first time that I completely accepted Sam on SGA. She rocked it, and I loved her command style. It was good to see that she waited until Rodney (the civilian) left the room before reaming into Ellis. It was professional, but still showed her authority. Nice.

Loved Rodney, as always. Really, the whole cast was just spot on.

I liked Larrin more in this ep and am looking forward to seeing the Travelers again. She's the first woman that Sheppard seems even romotely awkward around. Normally, he's in his element with women, but she completely throws him off. Although I winced in sympathy when he tried to get her "number", lol.

The actress who played Fran was really good too. "Hello". Great delivery.

The only slight, very slight problem I had was with Teyla's baby revelation. I wish they had done it in an earlier episode as it seemed to get lost within all the awesomeness going on. It was a "blink and you missed it" scene. While it was fairly unimportant to the episode at hand, it still is a big change for Teyla's character. It just seemed rather unimportant in the middle of armadas, ships, Replicaters, etc. This ep was packed with action! I think it could have been used to greater effect in an earlier ep. The way they were pitching Teyla's storyline I was expecting something more for her. The scene felt flat, imo. It is promising that she mentions getting her lover back though, so I guess the missing Athosians storyline is still on. And it was nice that Ronon knew about him. I guess it must be serious for Teyla to open up about something like that (well...and that she's having the man's child, of course.)

And Weir completely shocked me at the end. I've stayed away from spoilers, so I wasn't expecting to see her at all. Very, very cool. The whole cast was fantastic. I'm happy! 10/10 :)

Malakriss
January 4th, 2008, 08:32 PM
Seems like no one's happy unless the military gets their ass kicked, the scientists save the day, AND we manage to steal some piece of technology?

Chezlee
January 4th, 2008, 08:35 PM
Seems like no one's happy unless the military gets their ass kicked, the scientists save the day, AND we manage to steal some piece of technology?

That seems to be the case. IMO It would have looked pretty cheesy if they had managed to find the opportunity to take the ZPMs because it would be like "ok we took out a major enemy and our power is pretty much set for the rest of our time on Atlantis and anything Earth may need." It would be the end of everything.

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 08:38 PM
I'm just looking at the facts and we should have been able to take something that is all I am saying. Its not like there was something preventing it. Thats why I liked the idea of using the ZPM's to explode it made sure we couldn't get them but then they changed plans thats when I got mad

jdbond
January 4th, 2008, 08:39 PM
More ships should have been destroyed and the travlers tech is no where near that of the Ancinets, they needed our help to get battle ready and then when shppard asked to finsih the job she said she needed to do it herself (or something), and seven hives isn't that great against 30 Aurora class


Also why would the Reps be taken off guard if they knew they were coming on long range scanners?
I believe the Ancinets lost was the fact they didn't have numbers so lets see

30 Aurora Class ships with Ancient Level tech vs 14 or so ships of inferior tech

Hmmm who should win or who should at least take greater losses.

I mean they made the Ancients shields so weak that our rail guns were able to tear a rep ship up with ease.


That is the reason I don't like this episode



I understand your frustration but rail guns? Earth Ships were using Asgard weapon and those weapons were far far superior than anything replicators had. I wonder where you saw rail guns ripping through shield? Clearly earth ships had the most kill since few shots from them were good enough to knock out any replicator ship. What they lack in shield, they easily compensate with maneuverability and superior fire power.

justhere1971
January 4th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Where do I start. I can't believe I am writing this, but I actually liked this episode. Not a perfect episode, but still one of the better ones of this season yet. Too much crammed into this. Felt rushed, and little too nicely wrapped up, until we saw ELIZABETH! Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D

Ok, things I observed:

Caldwell: come're you big sexy man ;) I missed you this season. Now go back and make XF2 please.
Ellis: Can I kick you? You are an abrasive little jack @**.
Rodney: Someone needs to continually feed him, so he wouldn't talk so much. I felt bad that he got chewed out by Ellis, but seriously, he should not have called a meeting when he knew he had no solution just yet. Reminds me of some of my co-workers.... total time wasters. As for him building Fran - typical Rodney. Jump in feet first.
Radek: Someone give the man more screen time. Absolutely wins and few moment he's on screen - line or no line.
Wraith: I love this life sucking mutant. Even he get's aggrevated by Rodney's pompous attitude. :D Who else is kinda thinking what else the Wraiths did to our team while they were out? What if Teyla's baby was humanoid uptil now, and they did some experimenting while they were passed out? I mean they did zap Ronon several time apparently ... so why couldn't they be "tampered" with?
Teyla: Someone please give this girl some screen time. I am not the best fan of her, but gosh, for being on the opening credit, she's on screen less than Zelenka & Lorne somedays. How she revealed to Shep & Ronon about her pregnancy, was actually a little touching for me. The uncertainty in her voice. Yes, even an Athosian warrior worries about the reaction of her co-worker at such a revelation.
Ronon: I wanna hug the big guy. He plays the gentle warrior to a T. He is a friend to Teyla, when she needs it the most. Holding her hand as he walked her to the infirmary without being asked? Perfect.
Larrin: Once more with feeling - get the cone bras out of your costume lady- they went out of style in the 80's (if you call it that)! Can we see a little more expression on your face please? What a waste of screen time & dialog -- give it to Teyla.
Shep: Perfect reaction to Teyla's pregnancy announcement. Heck, he has every right to be. He's the leader of his team. If his team does not share with him informations that could possibly jeopardize a mission, he has every right to be annoyed. He's got a point, they are constantly fighting some race or aliens, getting zapped, poked & prodded -- what was Teyla thinking? As for him looking down Larri's shirt - well the girl was practically in his face w/ her décolleté.

The best part for me? Elizabeth. In less than one minute screen time, she totally dominated it for me. I do think it's the real her, and not a replicator. I do not think she's turned evil. Her line "good it worked" .. makes me wonder if she had a hand in the repliWeir giving the team the tablet w/ the Asuran ship intel? She masterminded the whole thing? :D

Alright I think that's it for now.

fugiman
January 4th, 2008, 08:42 PM
I understand your frustration but rail guns? Earth Ships were using Asgard weapon and those weapons were far far superior than anything replicators had. I wonder where you saw rail guns ripping through shield? Clearly earth ships had the most kill since few shots from them were good enough to knock out any replicator ship. What they lack in shield, they easily compensate with maneuverability and superior fire power.

When they first came out of hyperspace they used rail guns to destroy the reps ships which I can't believe at all as our rail guns suck

jdbond
January 4th, 2008, 08:42 PM
I'm just looking at the facts and we should have been able to take something that is all I am saying. Its not like there was something preventing it. Thats why I liked the idea of using the ZPM's to explode it made sure we couldn't get them but then they changed plans thats when I got mad

they didn't get any ZPM, did they?

ToasterOnFire
January 4th, 2008, 08:43 PM
Out of curiosity, why did Carter spend time squeezing into Barbarella black leather outfit if all she's going to do is SIT in a chair on the Daedalus??
Because many to most of the other women in this ep were wearing leather and she felt left out? ;)


But when you concieve and carry out an attack plan all in one episode that nearly destroys every a superpowerful enemy with hardly any losses it's kind of far fetched. I'll have to watch it over.
Ah, thanks for putting into words what I couldn't. That's why the ep felt like it had way too much happening. Thinking up, implementing, and destroying (most of) the replicators happened in the span on 43 minutes. Add in Teyla's pregnancy reveal, the creation and destruction of Fran, Larrin popping up and leaving, the diplomacy with the wraith, the use and loss of our wraith buddy, and OMGWEIR!!! and it was just too much. Many of those plotlines could have been introduced in earlier eps or even a 2 parter.

prion
January 4th, 2008, 08:50 PM
At least we could have gotten three or four would have been fine I knew they couldn't get them all but come on get something out of this deal. It just made me so angry to watch this epsiode and get nothing at all.

It wouldn't have mattered. Whenever we get our hands on alien technology we either ship it back to earth to fight some war Ori war there, or we get it blown up. Sure woudln't lend anybody on Atlantis the keys to my car ;)


Seems like no one's happy unless the military gets their ass kicked, the scientists save the day, AND we manage to steal some piece of technology?

yeah, that's about it.


Because many to most of the other women in this ep were wearing leather and she felt left out? ;)

Ah, thanks for putting into words what I couldn't. That's why the ep felt like it had way too much happening. Thinking up, implementing, and destroying (most of) the replicators happened in the span on 43 minutes. Add in Teyla's pregnancy reveal, the creation and destruction of Fran, Larrin popping up and leaving, the diplomacy with the wraith, the use and loss of our wraith buddy, and OMGWEIR!!! and it was just too much. Many of those plotlines could have been introduced in earlier eps or even a 2 parter.

I liked the scene where Teyla finally dropped the news, could understand Shep's reaction, lOVED Ronon's reaction but then it was like, uh, that's IT? And wilLRodney find out when he gets the email? (I suspect he's finding out in between episodes). It's a shame she got lost in amongst the battle scenes, but now that we have ridden the galaxy of the awful replicator menace (Gawd, I hope we have, I am so tired of replicators), they can actually handle the emotional fallout from Teyla's pregnancy. I'd like to see Sheppard actually explain why he was pissed when she gave him the news.

Arative
January 4th, 2008, 08:52 PM
Yeah how the hell did our rail guns hurt the replicator ships? Normally rail guns can't even beat a ha'tak but somehow they were able to damage Ancinet Level Shields? In terms of tech this episode sucked

In terms of fun and laughter and connections I liked it

Watching the episode a second time, during the final battle, the repilicator ships had shields. Rail guns and wraith dart fire impacted on shields until what appeared to be enough to drain the shields and then got through and destroyed the shields. Drones fired from the travellers ships passed right through the replicator ships shields as did the particle beams from the earth ships.

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 08:52 PM
Which plot hole are you referring to? Most have already been discounted.

Well, perhaps they have. Let me try to sort through them.

Effectiveness of Asuran ships:
Well, it is clear that in 1-on-1 engagements, Asuran warships are easily superior to all other ships in Pegasus, save for Asgard-equipped 304s, which in such engagements easily destroy Asuran vessels. So let's assume that the 304s rocked the Asuran vessels while the rest of the coalition helped take the heat. But why weren't more ships lost? As far as we know, only one Travelers warship was lost, along with an undisclosed number of Wraith ships (worst case 6 ships, though the real number really must be less).

The element of surprise:
The Asurans should have been able to detect at least the Wraith ships. These same sensors can detect original Alteran ships on deep space ("Aurora"). They must have some limitations, though, most likely effective range. Assuming that the fleet was traveling at top speed without stopping, the Asurans should have had at least some warning. Total surprise should have not been possible. Yet, with some warning, why do they seem to put up such a lackluster defense?

A lackluster defense:
Why didn't Asurans on the ground raise shields before the coalition fleet arrived, preventing McKay and company from beaming in? Assuming complete surprise is the only explanation, in which case they would have to have beamed in before the Asurans could react. Why didn't Asurans on the ground fire salvos of drones, which were mentioned during the planning stages of the attack?

Why are darts and 302s now effective against Aurora-class ships with (we assume) full ZPM power?

How did Weir's faction survive? Well, this one is easily discounted. They would have monitored the battle from afar and later come in close to be sure.

How did the Atlantis team miss Weir's ship? Again easily discounted: assuming that Weir's faction is the same as that in "This Mortal Coil", they would have had the prudence to disable the Atlantis team's ability to track their own ship(s?).

I concede that yes, a lot of the "holes" to which I referred have good explanations. I just can't get my head around how few ships were lost against Auroras en masse. Then again, considering how powerful the 304s are now, and how the dozen other coalition ships would have provided distractions...

I concede that my previous comment was made in haste. Maybe the details do all work out. But for me it takes a few more assumptions than I am comfortable with. Though I can't complain with TPTB making good on the promise of the Asgard in "Unending".

<hr>

As for FRAN, her beauty was definately a refined one, without the need for cliche sci-fi leather or a big bust. It was much more compelling in my opinion than, say, Larrin.

Malakriss
January 4th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Precise count of ships that entered hyperspace = 16

2 Earth ships
1 Aurora Traveler Ship
6 Standard Traveler Ships
7 Wraith Hive Ships

I'll do a thread with the battle summary.

Eri13
January 4th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Where do I start. I can't believe I am writing this, but I actually liked this episode. Not a perfect episode, but still one of the better ones of this season yet. Too much crammed into this. Felt rushed, and little too nicely wrapped up, until we saw ELIZABETH! Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D

Agree and really liked it. You make me laugh with this post!


Caldwell: come're you big sexy man ;) I missed you this season. Now go back and make XF2 please.
Ellis: Can I kick you? You are an abrasive little jack @**.

Caldwell--it was GREAT to see Mitch Pileggi again. And Ellis, seriously I haven't forgiven him since his [email protected]** stint in First Strike.


Radek: Someone give the man more screen time. Absolutely wins and few moment he's on screen - line or no line. Seriously. I love him.


Larrin: Once more with feeling - get the cone bras out of your costume lady- they went out of style in the 80's (if you call it that)! Can we see a little more expression on your face please? What a waste of screen time & dialog -- give it to Teyla.

I'm already tired of Larrin. If they want a woman in leather, replace her with Elizabeth.


The best part for me? Elizabeth. In less than one minute screen time, she totally dominated it for me. I do think it's the real her, and not a replicator. I do not think she's turned evil. Her line "good it worked" .. makes me wonder if she had a hand in the repliWeir giving the team the tablet w/ the Asuran ship intel? She masterminded the whole thing? :D

Alright I think that's it for now.

That's what I think too. Though I'm not so sure she's the same ol' Elizabeth, because I just don't buy her abandoning Atlantis and her friends so quickly. There's something there unexplained. Maybe she is trying to help them destroy the Wraith and the 'bad' Replicators or something, but just leaving Atlantis behind when she's fully aware of herself? I dunno...




Ah, thanks for putting into words what I couldn't. That's why the ep felt like it had way too much happening. Thinking up, implementing, and destroying (most of) the replicators happened in the span on 43 minutes. Add in Teyla's pregnancy reveal, the creation and destruction of Fran, Larrin popping up and leaving, the diplomacy with the wraith, the use and loss of our wraith buddy, and OMGWEIR!!! and it was just too much. Many of those plotlines could have been introduced in earlier eps or even a 2 parter.

I felt that too...I don't think I absorbed the whole episode. I'm going to have to go back and rewatch it a few times--though I'm rewatching the last 30 seconds about 50 times. ;)

Briangate78
January 4th, 2008, 08:55 PM
Because many to most of the other women in this ep were wearing leather and she felt left out? ;)


Ah, thanks for putting into words what I couldn't. That's why the ep felt like it had way too much happening. Thinking up, implementing, and destroying (most of) the replicators happened in the span on 43 minutes. Add in Teyla's pregnancy reveal, the creation and destruction of Fran, Larrin popping up and leaving, the diplomacy with the wraith, the use and loss of our wraith buddy, and OMGWEIR!!! and it was just too much. Many of those plotlines could have been introduced in earlier eps or even a 2 parter.

Actually it took them a season and a half to defeat the replicators. This episode was basically the conclusion........or is it........new story arc....Weir and the last remaining replicators, are they allies, foe, niether?

jdbond
January 4th, 2008, 08:55 PM
When they first came out of hyperspace they used rail guns to destroy the reps ships which I can't believe at all as our rail guns suck

I just watched the episode again. They used rail gun only once on a ship with no shields. It also didn't do much damage. I wasn't surprised by the outcome but the fact that replicators seemed completely unaware of the attack. Also it wasn't just 14 ships but 100 or so darts and F-302 too. Replicators clearly didn't expect such an all out attack which was rather stupid. Still lets not forget that replicators would have one the war eventually since whole fight didn't last for than few minutes.

rarocks24
January 4th, 2008, 08:58 PM
I just watched the episode again. They used rail gun only once on a ship with no shields. It also didn't do much damage. I wasn't surprised by the outcome but the fact that replicators seemed completely unaware of the attack. Also it wasn't just 14 ships but 100 or so darts and F-302 too. Replicators clearly didn't expect such an all out attack which was rather stupid. Still lets not forget that replicators would have one the war eventually since whole fight didn't last for than few minutes.

Those Wraith ships were starting to get pwned. They wouldn't have lasted another few minutes.

ToasterOnFire
January 4th, 2008, 09:04 PM
Actually it took them a season and a half to defeat the replicators.
No, my point was that the idea to defeat the replicators was thought up purely in this ep.

And Weir isn't coming back this season nor are there indications or even quiet internet rumors (ala Beckett's death or Weir's initial removal) that she's coming back for s5. Until I get even a hint otherwise, her story is dead in the water.

justhere1971
January 4th, 2008, 09:05 PM
<snip>

I liked the scene where Teyla finally dropped the news, could understand Shep's reaction, lOVED Ronon's reaction but then it was like, uh, that's IT? And wilLRodney find out when he gets the email? (I suspect he's finding out in between episodes). It's a shame she got lost in amongst the battle scenes, but now that we have ridden the galaxy of the awful replicator menace (Gawd, I hope we have, I am so tired of replicators), they can actually handle the emotional fallout from Teyla's pregnancy. I'd like to see Sheppard actually explain why he was pissed when she gave him the news.

What's up with that? I mean she said to just so matter of fact you know? Like if she said it in a hurry, they won't really notice? I would love to see an explanation of Shep's reaction to her announcement, but I have a feeling that would be like asking the miser to part with a penny (I suck at explaining).


Agree and really liked it. You make me laugh with this post!

Caldwell--it was GREAT to see Mitch Pileggi again. And Ellis, seriously I haven't forgiven him since his [email protected]** stint in First Strike.

I *heart* Mitch. He's the original skinman! :D



I'm already tired of Larrin. If they want a woman in leather, replace her with Elizabeth.
I wonder who isn't tired of Larrin. I'd like to know why. Elizabeth could totally trounce her in a leather clad battle, I say bring it on.


That's what I think too. Though I'm not so sure she's the same ol' Elizabeth, because I just don't buy her abandoning Atlantis and her friends so quickly. There's something there unexplained. Maybe she is trying to help them destroy the Wraith and the 'bad' Replicators or something, but just leaving Atlantis behind when she's fully aware of herself? I dunno...

What if she's trying to protect them? Since just in the last episode the Atlantis team were told that the real Elizabeth is dead, and then the repliElizabeth "died" ... and now this Elizabeth shows up. Ya know? Maybe she's using the diplomatic brain, and waiting for the right opportunity. Maybe she's thinking of battling the wraith, and having the element of surprise?


I felt that too...I don't think I absorbed the whole episode. I'm going to have to go back and rewatch it a few times--though I'm rewatching the last 30 seconds about 50 times. ;)

Today at work, one of co-workers was challenged to drink a whole gallon of milk in one hour (yes, we were bored!). After he nearly finished it all ... he threw up. My point? It felt rushed and crammed, and completely uncomfortable as I am sure this guy felt.

I've been rewinding the last minute or so too. :D

justhere1971
January 4th, 2008, 09:07 PM
No, my point was that the idea to defeat the replicators was thought up purely in this ep.

And Weir isn't coming back this season nor are there indications or even quiet internet rumors (ala Beckett's death or Weir's initial removal) that she's coming back for s5. Until I get even a hint otherwise, her story is dead in the water.

That worries me. There's not even a whiff yet.

ToasterOnFire
January 4th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Today at work, one of co-workers was challenged to drink a whole gallon of milk in one hour (yes, we were bored!). After he nearly finished it all ... he threw up. My point? It felt rushed and crammed, and completely uncomfortable as I am sure this guy felt.
Wow, best comment of the thread right there.

"BAMSR: It's like drinking a gallon of milk in one hour". :D :D

Briangate78
January 4th, 2008, 09:10 PM
No, my point was that the idea to defeat the replicators was thought up purely in this ep.

And Weir isn't coming back this season nor are there indications or even quiet internet rumors (ala Beckett's death or Weir's initial removal) that she's coming back for s5. Until I get even a hint otherwise, her story is dead in the water.

Actually, Mckay had been working on a plan with the Wraith starting in "The Seer". It took several eps to get a better handle on the situation, like for an example, TMC they got the tracking device. Now the original plan had been thrown out and they had to go to plan B. Also remember an entire week went by in this episode.

As per Weir, if that is not an indication of a cliffhanger or open Story arc, then I do not know what the hell is then. :S Seriously.

jdbond
January 4th, 2008, 09:11 PM
Those Wraith ships were starting to get pwned. They wouldn't have lasted another few minutes.

I concur. People are assuming that Human-Wraith alliance was actually winning the war even though in reality they were moments from total wipeout. We only saw 5-6 Asuran ships actually getting destroyed so they clearly weren't loosing the war. Earth ship were most effective since darts and hives provided a huge distraction.

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Those Wraith ships were starting to get pwned. They wouldn't have lasted another few minutes.

So it looks like the forming consensus as to the inferior 16-ship fleet defeating the 30-ship Asuran fleet is that, well, they didn't. Through numbers and size (remember, Hives are absurdly large and able to sustain lots of damage), the fleet was able to hold off the Asurans until FRAN completed her task. The reason we didn't loose more ships is that the battle was short enough for most of them to survive. Had the battle lasted longer, it would have not been so easy.

So why were the 304s in Pegasus anyway? By this time, is the Ori arc completely finished, thus making 304s in the Milky Way unneeded?

Is the correct chronology "Unending", then "Ark of Truth", then SGA Season 4 Ep. 1? Or does AoT occur between the first and second half of SGA Season 4?

edit: oh, found it: "Therefore, the movie's storyline will pick up after "Unending", the SG-1 series finale, but will take place before the fourth season of Stargate Atlantis."

SaberBlade
January 4th, 2008, 09:13 PM
Where do I start.

Personally I think this episode was amazing. I think there would have been a riot if Skiffy decided to hold back this episode for 7 months like last time. The space battles looked great (can't wait for HD) and overall plot and story of the episode was great. I really enjoyed the character development (such as Ellis hitting McKay where it hurt, Sam standing up for McKay and McKay thinking Ellis is a tool). Didn't like Larrin much, but what are you to do. It was great seeing Caldwell back, but disappointed that Kirby Morrow didn't return. It was also good to see Sam actually provide something towards the science side of things and once again proving she is always going to be there to bail out McKay when he's stuck.

Was Chris Heyerdhal the Wraith this week or did he just provide the voice? I don't know why, but he looked different.

I must admit, I was a bit disappointed at the very end. Weir seemed very sinister and totally predictable. I was hoping that all of that nanites bonding together would have created an Asuran Deathstar, with them changing part of it self to create this big bad ass energy weapon.

As impossible as it may be, I would like to see F.R.A.N again. I was expecting some form of Asuran survival at the end, with her as some core personality.

I look forward to finding out who Weir's source on the attack was. Something tells me it was Larrin as she wasn't to forthcoming about what she's doing next.

loondoggy
January 4th, 2008, 09:19 PM
I don't know about you guys but the aurora class that Weir was on seemed to have a more cramped bridge than what i've seen with the aurora class in the past, it kind of reminded me of a nuclear submarine bridge. Also, it seemed to be darker. Don't know if that's replicator influences or just Her factions version?

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 09:19 PM
As impossible as it may be, I would like to see F.R.A.N again. I was expecting some form of Asuran survival at the end, with her as some core personality.


I absolutely agree. Too good of a character to casually make and throw away for one episode. I'd like to see another FRAN as a sort of adviser in Atlantis. If it was nice having an ugly Wraith around, imagine what a lovely Replicator could do?


I was hoping that all of that nanites bonding together would have created an Asuran Deathstar, with them changing part of it self to create this big bad ass energy weapon.

You never know. Considering how tenacious the Milky Way Replicators were, or rather how long they dragged out that story after seemingly-decisive victories, I wouldn't call it out of the question my any means.

Insaneboy
January 4th, 2008, 09:20 PM
So it looks like the forming consensus as to the inferior 16-ship fleet defeating the 30-ship Asuran fleet is that, well, they didn't. Through numbers and size (remember, Hives are absurdly large and able to sustain lots of damage), the fleet was able to hold off the Asurans until FRAN completed her task. The reason we didn't loose more ships is that the battle was short enough for most of them to survive. Had the battle lasted longer, it would have not been so easy.

So why were the 304s in Pegasus anyway? By this time, is the Ori arc completely finished, thus making 304s in the Milky Way unneeded?

Is the correct chronology "Unending", then "Ark of Truth", then SGA Season 4 Ep. 1? Or does AoT occur between the first and second half of SGA Season 4?

edit: oh, found it: "Therefore, the movie's storyline will pick up after "Unending", the SG-1 series finale, but will take place before the fourth season of Stargate Atlantis."

Well i doubt that they gave Carter the command @ SGA and then said "Wait, you should come dig for an Ark."

I wonder what's going to happen now. I mean the Wraith are bad guys ?1 again, at least until the new season...

And what about the non-Aurora class ships? They couldnt have all of their ships recalled. One of the smaller ships could still be out there.

Another thing i noticed is that our guys can detect a hyperspace window opening, shouldnt the replicators have detected that as well?
A few seconds earlier isnt that big of a deal but they could've had time to at least raise shields.

krash
January 4th, 2008, 09:23 PM
Ok, nothing like a good old fashoined butt-whuppin' space battle to get the SCI-FI Friday energy going again!

While this is nothing new to various sci-fi genres (DS9 did something similar with the Dominion War) things had been building to the point where ya just need to get all the major players in one place and have it out.

Nice that they finally got around to outfitting both ships with those "beam" weapons (aka: portable Death Stars) on their ships. Figured they chewed through Ori ships so easy...it'd be the same with the replicators.

Loved the scene where the new guy from Apollo gave Rodney a hard time about being...well Rodney...and Sam FINALLY served a purpose of head of the SGA and read him the riot act. :samanime15:

LOVED that Larrin and the Travellers made an appearance in the battle, and it's kinda cool to see Sheppard not be so "Kirk-ish" around a woman in the Pegasus galaxy. My boy was trying to get her digits...how cute! :sheppardanime21:

And OMG...OMG...OMG...we've got "Locutus Weir" :weir44:

BEST EPISODE EVER!!!

Briangate78
January 4th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Carter acted like a leader and her old smart SG-1 self letting Mckay know about the planet's density and elements. Great job on Carter's part. :cool:

Eri13
January 4th, 2008, 09:25 PM
And Weir isn't coming back this season nor are there indications or even quiet internet rumors (ala Beckett's death or Weir's initial removal) that she's coming back for s5. Until I get even a hint otherwise, her story is dead in the water.

I'm kinda crossing my fingers that maybe its been a 'media silence' on this end. When the fandom found out Weir was being 'downsized' it caused such a stir they've been trying to find a way to quell it.

But for all the news that has come out--Torri interviews, stuff on Joe's blog, etc, about her not returning, etc--this was a HECK of a cliffhanger to leave us with and not have a plan for resolution. I mean, the last line was "now we can begin" or summat? If you never intended to bring the character back, why the last 30 seconds? Even if you announced "4" episodes, if negotiations were breaking down, why not just cut this last part? You don't have to hold to 4 appearances just to please the fans. If you had no chance of her coming back, there is no point to this scene--so I kinda hope that they kept under wraps she'd be returning until now.

We'll find out in the next few weeks or so, I guess...

Ripple in Space
January 4th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Lots of positivity! I enjoyed it, but liked the writing of "This Mortal Coil" far better. I am confused by how week Auroras have become... A severely damaged one used to be able to destroy a Hiveship in seconds, now an Aurora is roughly as strong as 6 darts, and weaker than 8...

If we were to base an Aurora's strength ratings on the SEVERELY damaged Orion which had shields as strong as we've seen on most any vessel and weapons that shreded a hive in seconds (fairly not at the same time, but it was broken and underpowered...) then those MANY PRISTINE Auroras should have demolished the Wraith ships...

justhere1971
January 4th, 2008, 09:27 PM
Ok, nothing like a good old fashoined butt-whuppin' space battle to get the SCI-FI Friday energy going again!

While this is nothing new to various sci-fi genres (DS9 did something similar with the Dominion War) things had been building to the point where ya just need to get all the major players in one place and have it out.

Nice that they finally got around to outfitting both ships with those "beam" weapons (aka: portable Death Stars) on their ships. Figured they chewed through Ori ships so easy...it'd be the same with the replicators.

Loved the scene where the new guy from Apollo gave Rodney a hard time about being...well Rodney...and Sam FINALLY served a purpose of head of the SGA and read him the riot act. :sam:

LOVED that Larrin and the Travellers made an appearance in the battle, and it's kinda cool to see Sheppard not be so "Kirk-ish" around a woman in the Pegasus galaxy.

And OMG...OMG...OMG...we've got "Locutus Weir" :weir44:

BEST EPISODE EVER!!!

We didn't watch the same episode then. I love Shep (look at my sig) .. but he was def. flirting. He looked down her shirt when she was interrogating him. He did the Pegasus galaxy version of "asking for her phone number" when he left her ship.
He was flirting.

jelgate
January 4th, 2008, 09:28 PM
Well i doubt that they gave Carter the command @ SGA and then said "Wait, you should come dig for an Ark."

I wonder what's going to happen now. I mean the Wraith are bad guys ?1 again, at least until the new season...

And what about the non-Aurora class ships? They couldnt have all of their ships recalled. One of the smaller ships could still be out there.

Another thing i noticed is that our guys can detect a hyperspace window opening, shouldnt the replicators have detected that as well?
A few seconds earlier isnt that big of a deal but they could've had time to at least raise shields.

The sheilds were raised

starfox
January 4th, 2008, 09:29 PM
We didn't watch the same episode then. I love Shep (look at my sig) .. but he was def. flirting. He looked down her shirt when she was interrogating him. He did the Pegasus galaxy version of "asking for her phone number" when he left her ship.
He was flirting.

Oh he was flirting, but he wasn't as smooth and intentionally charming as he normally is. Kirk-ish-ness is flirting with style; Shep was just awesomely awkward here. Larrin flusters him a bit, which is why I don't mind seeing her.

Ruined_puzzle
January 4th, 2008, 09:30 PM
I'm kinda crossing my fingers that maybe its been a 'media silence' on this end. When the fandom found out Weir was being 'downsized' it caused such a stir they've been trying to find a way to quell it.


There had actually been rumors way before we officially found out that she was being "downsized". We(or at least the people that were on lj ) knew that it might happen. It was a rumor of course but so far nothing has been said of Weir returning. No rumors, no nothing.

krash
January 4th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Carter acted like a leader and her old smart SG-1 self letting Mckay know about the planet's density and elements.
That was kinda cool, cause one of the things that made the Carter/Rodney working relationship work was that they're both one of those "big picture" type of thinkers...so they can work out a problem with half a word here and a phrase there...and they're on the same wave length. It's one of those times where Carter being the CO doesn't matter...they both speak fluent "geek"

Insaneboy
January 4th, 2008, 09:32 PM
The sheilds were raised

Not on the one that got destroyed by the rail guns.

If they can detect a hyperspace window opening (there's no reason to think that they cant), why didnt they raise those shields??

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4057/stargateatlantiss04e11dzr2.jpg

MattZat
January 4th, 2008, 09:32 PM
Oh...my....goodness i loved that episode

I mean there were rumors we'd see Weir again, that she wasnt really dead, and i was inclined to believe she wasnt; but wow, not expecting that reveal. I for one hope the writers intend to tell us what's going on down the line - is she pure evil? has she created her own faction of Replicators and hid until the rest who followed Oberoth were destroyed? With such a big reveal, i doubt they intend - as some have implied - to drop the Weir storyline outright a la Ford. That would've made the end to this episode a complete waste and cop out if they were to never touch on it again

I also must say, i thought the battle scene was fantastic, truly the best and most complex they've done, and i also thought those effects, the repli-blob/planet exploding effects, and the the way they revealed the big oops-weir-is-not-dead shocker at the end, panning past remnants of the planet, was quite cool.

I am so geared for the second half of this season... possibly some of the best Atlantis ever awaits! I might well be inclined to place this into contention as one of the top Stargate Atlantis episodes ever

starfox
January 4th, 2008, 09:32 PM
There had actually been rumors way before we officially found out that she was being "downsized". We(or at least the people that were on lj ) knew that it might happen. It was a rumor of course but so far nothing has been said of Weir returning. No rumors, no nothing.

But didn't those hints come from interviews or blogs or somesuch? If there's been a gag order on the Weir plotline, none of that sort of thing would be happening; we wouldn't know jack because no one would be talking.

krash
January 4th, 2008, 09:36 PM
We didn't watch the same episode then. I love Shep (look at my sig) .. but he was def. flirting.
Oh no, we're on the same gate address...I meant only this time, it wasn't working (as easily) as with all his other Kirk-esque" moments.


He looked down her shirt when she was interrogating him.
He wasn't the only one! :sheppardanime23: I'm loving the fact that he's finally met his match...and HE LIKES IT!

wm_1987
January 4th, 2008, 09:40 PM
I would disagree with you on Sheppard's reaction. He established in "Sateda" that his team is the closest thing he has to a family. And "Doppelganger" established that he fears failing his team. So he just had someone close to him who is also under his command come up and reveal that she's been getting beat up and shot at - both things that could possibly cause a miscarriage - while pregnant. He's been ordering her into situations that could get her baby killed. Also, pregnancy puts a hell of a strain on the body, so anything that affected the baby would affect Teyla as well. Plus, Sheppard's USAF, and there's got to be something in the rule book about pregnant women in combat. Athosian women may traditionally remain active during pregnancy, but there's a marked difference between working out in the gym or in the fields and taking a chance at being shot, stabbed, exposed to wonky alien entities, etc.

I really agree with this, I don't think Sheppard's reaction was out of line. I would have reacted the same way. He cares about her like she was family, and she knows that, I could understand if he was upset that she didn't trust him more. I liked when Teyla said she tried to tell him and he answered with "you didn't try hard enough".

I'm really happy it finally out that she is pregnant, I didn't want the secret too much longer. All in all, I really liked the episode.

jdbond
January 4th, 2008, 09:41 PM
Not on the one that got destroyed by the rail guns.

It was hit but not destroyed. Also many ships blew but even second time I couldn't differentiate between good guys and bad guys except for two or three cases. Still, replicators should have known that attack was imminent.

toomanysides
January 4th, 2008, 09:51 PM
Carter defending Mckay has very little with whether Ellis was right, it was protecting the people under her command. Very Assertive of Carter.

Overall, excellent episode. Very Solid.

Col. in the beginning was hilarious as with Carter's quote about first time needed the ships... since she came here :P. Technobable between Carter and Mckay (finally!!!!!) I wish there was a more but it was satisfying. And Mckay said they were both geniuses, it was cute. Ronon was so cute with his reaction to the pregnancy revelation "Ronon is a good name for a girl or a boy" and held her hand!! aww.

SGA, I have much faith in you for the second half. And almost forgot Fran!!! How we will never know theee.

Eri13
January 4th, 2008, 09:54 PM
There had actually been rumors way before we officially found out that she was being "downsized". We(or at least the people that were on lj ) knew that it might happen. It was a rumor of course but so far nothing has been said of Weir returning. No rumors, no nothing.

I know, and that worries me some, but as I mentioned somewhere else--the last scene was completely unnecessary if there wasn't some chance of her coming back. It didn't really add to the plot...heck, you could have left it at McKay's last line and still 'foreshadowed' there could be Replicator out there.

I guess what I'm thinking is--if negotiations had broken down, would there be a need to leave this scene in and get the fan base all stirred up? I could see how people could get a hint a character was being written out early on, even without an official announcement, due to the advance writing of the teleplays and filming and what would be discovered on set. But bringing Weir back in Season 5 may be fairly easy to conceal, being that no S5 scripts have yet been written, and nothing filmed. The only question would be Torri herself and what she's been asked--I don't think she'd lie, and of course she knew what this 4th appearance could entail, given the nature of the scene.

I just don't know...what I do know that it is one heck of a scene to keep in without resolving...

jelgate
January 4th, 2008, 09:59 PM
I just don't know...what I do know that it is one heck of a scene to keep in without resolving...I don't think they will do that, just based on how Weir was found at the end of the episode. The auidence actually saw Weir alive while The Ford storyline made us infer on what happened to him.

Eri13
January 4th, 2008, 10:02 PM
I don't think they will do that, just based on how Weir was found at the end of the episode. The auidence actually saw Weir alive while The Ford storyline made us infer on what happened to him.

That's my thinking, too. Ford was the 'noble sacrifice' if you choose to infer that, or you could think he escaped. But the outward appearance to everyone, fan and Lantian, is that he died in an explosion.

This is...not that. Weir (or some form thereof) is very much alive and planning something. I hope we find out what. *crosses fingers*

GateTrek2004
January 4th, 2008, 10:04 PM
After watching the Midnight showing of ATL and reading these posts for the last Hr, I have to say OMG!!! :thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09:What was that ending??? Totally unseen! When i saw Weir I just jumped up and down and screaming I knew she did not die!!! I am hoping that This weir is the REAL one that stayed behind on Asuras. This was the BEST episode to Date! 10/10!!!

Lythisrose
January 4th, 2008, 10:19 PM
That's my thinking, too. Ford was the 'noble sacrifice' if you choose to infer that, or you could think he escaped. But the outward appearance to everyone, fan and Lantian, is that he died in an explosion.

This is...not that. Weir (or some form thereof) is very much alive and planning something. I hope we find out what. *crosses fingers*

I agree, they would not have had her say something to the effect that "now we begin" (sorry if not exact quote) if they didn't have some kind of future plans for the character. At least I hope not. :S

majorsal
January 4th, 2008, 10:30 PM
now i know why everyone starts off their posts with wow. :p WOW!!

there wasn't one thing in it that i didn't enjoy.

wait, i'll do the pros and cons thinger.

cons: NONE.

k, now to pros...

in no certain order:


teyla finally revealling her pregnancy. i understood sheppard's prob with it -and one must include their shippy feelings - but i also knew that he'd feel bad personally if anything happened to the baby. so it made sense on both the commander/shippy.

ronan's softer side for teyla was nice too. he's cute. :p

i don't want todd to go. he's too cool!

larrin wasn't so bad this time. i think the actress played her better, so maybe that's why their scenes didn't irritate me this time. in fact, i grinned a bit.

mckay was his usual seft, which makes me want to grab him and lay a big juicy kiss on him. uh, i'll keep that to myself next time. :p

sam! oh now long i've waited to see sam again! for this fan, it's been hiatis plus two eps before. and sam was sooooo cool in this ep! sticking up for mckay when ellis (sp?) dissed him; yay! the sam-mckay science stuff was great to see! and mckay's 'we're geniuses' cracked me up. i mean it, just writing up this part of my review has me sighing for getting such a wonderful sam dose. i'll keep my squee to myself. :p

fran was sweet. i'm glad they made 'her' not feel bad about, essentially, dying.

and weir... oh wow. i didn't tell my mom about the end (after reading spoilers), so i just told her to pay attention. when the scene ended, she just said that actress looked like sigourney weaver (which she does :p), but i had to tell her it was weir. she's only seen 11 eps like me, so she didn't recognize her at first. but when i told her, she was wow!

the huge fire fight in space totally rocked! in fact, this was the moment i was so hoping my cable company wouldn't suddenly interrupt with some stupid flash flood alert. i made it through the entire ep without it. :p

the 'colonel, colonel, etc' scene was funny. :p

(i might need to put my tv on closed captioning for when mckay/david talks, though, because he does it so fast that i sometimes can't get what he's saying. :p)

so, my score for tonight's ep is 9.5. dang wonderful ep!! :D




sally :D

Amakusa
January 4th, 2008, 10:30 PM
I guess what I'm thinking is--if negotiations had broken down, would there be a need to leave this scene in and get the fan base all stirred up?

Some people might recall this also came up with Battlestar Galactica and the Starbuck character, and she turned out to be alive and showed up in the last minute of the season. All signs up to then suggested she wasn't coming back, and when that happened everyone realized that the writers/producers and the actress managed to pull the wool over the fanbase's collective eyes.



Well....


Anyway, as far as the Replicators go, I'm rather satisfied they're mostly gone, because I never liked them to begin with.

The SG:A variety of Replicatiors are meant to be weaker than the SG-1 Replicators, and SG:A went out of its way several times to point that out (not the least of which they build their ships instead of making them out of Replicator Blocks). The real difference between both varieties of Replicators is the Asurans were designed to be more defeatable than the original variety, which became too invincible and required a deus ex machina in order to wipe them out. The way the Asurans were defeated in this episode as opposed to the original variety is a lot more satisfying because Atlantis and allies managed to defeat them on their own merits rather than an ancient artifact of magnificent power.

Quinn Mallory
January 4th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Great episode. Totally happy to have SGA back so soon. It's good to see Weir back and hopefully she won't be dealt with in just a two episode arc or something like that (like what happened with Ford). On a side note, I'm wondering whether there will be any ramification from Sheppard, Ronin, and Teyla being knocked out by the Wraith. A wraith-human clone or something like that in the near future?

Anyhow, I guess the team will be back to worry about another all out attack on Atlantis in the near future.

lazarus2405
January 4th, 2008, 10:40 PM
makusa;7520104]The way the Asurans were defeated in this episode as opposed to the original variety is a lot more satisfying because Atlantis and allies managed to defeat them on their own merits rather than an ancient artifact of magnificent power.

I heartily agree.

atfan
January 4th, 2008, 10:44 PM
Wow I mean seriously WoW. Where to begin. Excellent use of the prior storylines building to this episode. Carter actually acting Carter-like and defending Rodney. Her techno-babble just enhanced Rodney's explanations it didn't detract from him at all yeah very well done great interaction. Sheppard and Larrin not my favorite but she is growing on me kinda reminds me of Vala.
Unexpected but very cute Fran. Hello and goodbye. I did kinda wonder about the shields being breached so easily but they did it once before with Weir helping so not a big plot hole in my opinion. Space battle totally awesome loved the effects . Wraith, God he even has humor Go Christopher you rock!!!
Hopefully we will see more of him. Twist Teyla pregnancy, plot hole why in the Hell did Keller allow Teyla to go offworld when she knew she was pregnant God I miss Carson. Couldn't believe Carter blurted out, so who's the father the way she was looking at Sheppard she suspected him I think. Ellis is too cool reminds me of Makepeace alot. He had a right to question Rodney but he went too far. Zelenka loving him needs more dialog but really great.
Loved the ending and the possibilities. Ronon and Teyla too cute aww he was very supportive I think Sheppard had every right to be upset with Teyla, he was probably very worried about her and the fact the baby might be in danger because of what happened. Weir evil or good that is the question?
Cannot wait for the next episode. Great job everyone.
The best Altantis episode ever in my opinion.

Mekarri
January 4th, 2008, 10:46 PM
Evil!Weir. Bound to be better than RegularWeir. :D

Teyla must be having octuplets if she's that big at three months. ;)

Good on Ronon for being supportive, but Ronon is definitely not a girl's name.

Rodney, Radek, Sheppard, Ronon, Sam, Caldwell, our wraith...everyone was just great in this one.

Another wonderful episode. Best season ever.
Good job, guys.
I loved this eps. But I have always thought that Teyla and her people was treated with little or no respect. The way John went off on her was not necessary. I felt like he was being an *******. I feel a person who is a leader of her people, her world, would not allow anyone to speak to her in such a way. Hell, it would be hard to even take orders from someone else. So she is pregnant, so what? if you are not the father you don't even get a voice in what I do? Don't treat me like I'm your responsibility. She was taking care herself and her people before he came along and if it wasn't for John and the Atlantis team everyone wouldn't be getting slaughter. She would have to fight the wraith pregnant if he (John) wasn't around . She has every right to fight until she become a liability. John never disrespect Ronon like that. He sucks up to Ronon. I love that Ronon is Teyla friend.

I thought Carson was going to be in this eps. I miss him and Elizabeth. I think it was a big mistake getting rid of them. I love seeing Carter.

Leliana McKay
January 4th, 2008, 10:49 PM
FANTASTIC EPISODE!! 10/10
I'm not only talking about the space battle . But the plot!! What a plot!!!
Congrats to Martin for this awesome-tastic piece of art.

My favorite parts:
-The intergalactic cooperation Wraith/Travelers/ Earth = huge kick ass space battle that make me wish I had a HD screen TV.
-Rodney creating his own replicator, the hot Fran. Can we have more Fran??!!
-Compressing the replicators to make them implode. Sheer genius!
-Teyla revealing her pregnancy and Sheppard taking her off the team. Oh!!!
-Ronon knowing about Kanan (I was speechless). Ronon is acting so sweet. That's a nice touch.
-Ellis saying "Son of a *****, he actually did it" about Rodney. ( I am so proud of Rodney!)
-Rodney/Radek banter. (More scenes please... those two are gold!)
-Sam/Rodney sharing smiles of technobabble. (That's the Carter/McKay I love!)
-Asura exploding... the explosion looked a bit weird but still cool.

I think it was the best episode ever. It included everything fans love. A great plot. Mortal enemies as allies. A big space battle. A new scientific crazy approach. Hot aliens/robots women. Romance and suspence (Well, I'm talking about the Teyla/Kanan storyline. And on a less romantic level Rodney realising that Fran was going to die. The look on Rodney's face made me want to cry. Now I'm waiting for Rodney to create another repli-Fran) And a killer cliffhanger of course.... repli-Weir is alive and kicking. What is she up to?

Sam was awesome! She finally gets more air time and interacts as a scientist with Rodney.


Great lines:
- when Ellis and Caldwell beam together in Atlantis"and greet everyone "Colonel" Colonel" Colonel" Colonel" Colonels." Rodney : "Seriously!

-I loved when Sam told Ellis off after his harsh words to McKay.

-McKay is back!! (from Radek)

-and finally Rodney's: Sam we are geniuses!! (Favorite line!)


About, Good or Evil Weir??
AHAHHHHHH

I don't think she is evil. I thought like repli-Keller her goal was to discover the secret of ascension.

Major_Griff
January 4th, 2008, 10:49 PM
WOW! Great ep! I pretty much loved everything about it. I don't know where to begin. I loved Carter putting Ellis in his place. And even though they over use that joke with all the doctors and colonels addressing each other by title, I still thought it was great and McKay's reaction was hilarious. Oh and the scene with Rodney and the wraith was great when McKay was like "Did I ever tell you..." and the way the wraith responded was classic. "Yes you have." I wished they showed more of the space battle, but what they showed was great. Seeing two Earth ships together gave me a good feeling. Caldwell's return was awesome, I hope he and Ellis appear a few more times this season. And finally THE ENDING!!!!! Wow that was awesome, but If I remember correctly, Torri is only supposed to be in four eps this seasons (Adrift, Lifeline, TMC, and BAMSR) so now we have to wait for S5 or later to find out what she's up to and if she's the real Weir or another copy. UGH I want to know now! Any way great ep, 9/10 overall!

randy23
January 4th, 2008, 10:50 PM
I didn't manage to catch the show. But who was the lucky guy who managed to [rub one off] in Teyla?

RepliVeggie
January 4th, 2008, 10:54 PM
Great episode one of the best SG episodes. Reminded me of the Jaffa/Earth/Lucian Alliance/Tok'ra/Asgard (lol) alliance from Camelot.

Obviously this episode had some plot holes; Asuran (I wish they would have kept calling them Asurans.) sensors not detecting the coalition fleet, no drones from surface, why are Asgard beam weapons ripping through Asuran shields so easily, Asuran ships didn't seem to be firing drones in this episode or Lifeline. Also prob a few other smaller ones. I think that alot of these need explaining. Do the new Asgard weapons derive knowledge they gained from the repository of the Ancients? Are Asurans unable to reproduce the same level of technology the Ancients were?

At first I shrugged off the Sensor thing by saying, the Wraith have to make pit stops because their hyper-drive isn't that advanced and Atlantis would pick them up when they would drop out, and that the fleet just entered hyperspace beyond sensor range. Then I remembered that there are 7 Hive ships with us so I dunno.


I dunno I want an explanation on alot of things that happened in SG1 and SGA. But all around amazing episode. 10/10

Major_Griff
January 4th, 2008, 11:01 PM
(I wish they would have kept calling them Asurans.)

They never actually called them Asurans in the show ever, not once. They are from Asuras, yes so they could be called Asurans, but the characters always called them replicators ever since they found out they were replicators in "Progeny", so I will always call them replicators or Pegasus repilicators until they're called otherwise in the show.

kadosho
January 4th, 2008, 11:02 PM
For a halfway point marker comeback; this was a pleasant surprise. "Sins" gave this synergy that was close to the battle above the Antarctic. Plus the involvement of hunters & wraith felt like a family get together; no one really wants to come, but it might be fun.

But on another note, it even raised alot of high marks. Going to show how close the Atlantis team has actually become. From interaction with others; and even taking a stance for one another. Of course the briefing; to Tayla's confesison; and Rodney's strength, as well as Sam's respect for her new family. There is so much evolving in this series; it is definitely heartfelt and compelling enough to keep you coming back for more.

I am very hopeful that this season will definitely push a mark over what they were capable of last time. And this ep shows; speed; stamina; and a balance can be made in a critical point in a show like this one.

starfox
January 4th, 2008, 11:05 PM
So she is pregnant, so what? if you are not the father you don't even get a voice in what I do? Don't treat me like I'm your responsibility. She was taking care herself and her people before he came along and if it wasn't for John and the Atlantis team everyone wouldn't be getting slaughter. She would have to fight the wraith pregnant if he (John) wasn't around . She has every right to fight until she become a liability.

She is his responsibility. She's under his command. He's the one who sends her into combat situations and if she miscarried because of an injury she received while off-world with the team, it would be his fault. Plus, she sprung it on him after she had just been stunned while in a Wraith hive ship because of an alliance with a Wraith that he set up. He had every right to be a little peeved.

Before the Atlanteans, the Athosians didn't resist the Wraith on anything near the level Teyla does now. We discovered in the pilot that they'd abandoned the ruins of their great cities and were afraid to enter them. Teyla doesn't say that pregnant Athosian women fight. She says that they remain active in the community. The Athosians are/were farmers and traders. There's a marked difference between working in the fields and walking into a situation where it's likely that you'll be shot or tortured or trapped in a structually unsound Ancient ruin. It's just not a good idea.

Plus, once she begins to show people are going to begin treating her differently, whether she wants them to or not. And it would be a shame to see some poor Marine killed while chivalrously trying to protect Teyla's unborn child.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of Shep's reaction was a typical big brother-ish, "You went out and got yourself knocked up? Wow, that was smart. What were you thinking!?!"

Darth kat
January 4th, 2008, 11:10 PM
10/10!! That was just effin' awesome. Especially the space battle (in HD). The whole episode had me on the edge of my couch. The last scene though, had me spewing "Oh S***, oh s***, oh s***!", hah. For the first time in a long time I kept rewinding a lot of scenes. :cool:

Nicksterr
January 4th, 2008, 11:12 PM
10/10!! That was just effin' awesome. Especially the space battle (in HD). The whole episode had me on the edge of my couch. The last scene though, had me spewing "Oh S***, oh s***, oh s***!", hah. For the first time in a long time I kept rewinding a lot of scenes. :cool:

How were you able to view the episode in HD?

I thought the space battles and graphics were alright, but nothing compared to Battlestar Galactica.

Darth kat
January 4th, 2008, 11:17 PM
How were you able to view the episode in HD?

Comcast SciFi HD



I thought the space battles and graphics were alright, but nothing compared to Battlestar Galactica.

True (rabid BSG fan here). It also helps that BSG has more intense battle music.

Eri13
January 4th, 2008, 11:17 PM
How were you able to view the episode in HD?


In my area on Comcast Cable, Sci-Fi HD was just introduced on the HD tier. Now some of us lucky Americans can finally see SGA as it was meant to be seen.

Mekarri
January 4th, 2008, 11:18 PM
I would disagree with you on Sheppard's reaction. He established in "Sateda" that his team is the closest thing he has to a family. And "Doppelganger" established that he fears failing his team. So he just had someone close to him who is also under his command come up and reveal that she's been getting beat up and shot at - both things that could possibly cause a miscarriage - while pregnant. He's been ordering her into situations that could get her baby killed. Also, pregnancy puts a hell of a strain on the body, so anything that affected the baby would affect Teyla as well. Plus, Sheppard's USAF, and there's got to be something in the rule book about pregnant women in combat. Athosian women may traditionally remain active during pregnancy, but there's a marked difference between working out in the gym or in the fields and taking a chance at being shot, stabbed, exposed to wonky alien entities, etc.
She lives in a world where that is a possibility with or without John. He need to get over himself. It is not his job to tell Teyla what chance she can take with HER baby, he is not the father therefore it isn't even open for discussion.

Darth kat
January 4th, 2008, 11:20 PM
She lives in a world where that is a possibility with or without John. He need to get over himself. It is not his job to tell Teyla what chance she can take with HER baby, he is not the father therefore it isn't even open for discussion.

Also, you have to think that some people react differently to certain situations. He cares a great deal for Teyla and perhaps he was just a little bit upset for the safety of her and her baby.

female Wraith
January 4th, 2008, 11:25 PM
That episode was amazing!

And Weir in the end. I suppose this is the original Weir - that one from Adrift and Lifeline. She has taken control over the fraction of the Asurans.

Todd was wonderful. Just his make up was little different.

10/10!

starfox
January 4th, 2008, 11:27 PM
She lives in a world where that is a possibility with or without John. He need to get over himself. It is not his job to tell Teyla what chance she can take with HER baby, he is not the father therefore it isn't even open for discussion.

See my most recent most on the matter. He's her commander. He sends her into combat. She's been letting him do that in a situation where it is blatantly against the rules of his own military; protocols she most likely had to agree to follow in order to be part of an off-world team. He was perfectly justified in taking her off active duty, and considering that she sprung this on him in the middle of a tense pre-battle situation to explain why she needed to go to the doctor after an incident that she would have been able to shake off with no problem had she not been pregnant? Darn right, he's annoyed. It's not completely about her being pregnant; it's about not letting him do his job.

Of course, I'm biased. I'm really hoping Teyla miscarries or gives the kid to its father to raise, as I hate, hate, hate the idea of a kid in Atlantis. Small annoying, wailing thing with no impulse control in a place that has a lot of weird killer machines lying around. Yeah, that's a bright idea.

morjana
January 4th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Stargate Atlantis - SciFi Channel Updates Jan 4 '08 - Be All My Sins Remember'd:

SciFi Channel updates for Friday, January 4, 2008:

"Be All My Sins Remember'd"

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=0410&act=1

* Episode Synopsis
* Episode Photos

NEXT New episode - "Spoils of War" - Friday, January 11, 2008 -- The Atlantis team salvages a damaged Wraith hive ship, and in the process retrieves critical information that might help them in their renewed war against the Wraith.

Guest stars include: Andee Frizzell as the Wraith Queen, Dan Payne as Male Wraith and Kavan Smith as Major Evan Lorne.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/1sow.jpg


"Spoils of War" SciFi Channel Trailer:

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=201342


NEW Quiz:

The Radek Zelenka Quiz

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/quiz_pic_zelenka.jpg

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/quizzes/zelenka/index.php?start=1

Jan. 5, 2008

Dr. Radek Zelenka is one of Atlantis's frequently unsung heroes. See how well you know this Czech genius — take our new quiz, which is all about him!


VIDEO INTERVIEW

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/featurettes/index.php?Clip=10

or

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=200973

GET IN THE GATE SWEEPSTAKES!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/getingate-sam.jpg

http://www.scifi.com/getinthegate/

Contest opens January 4, 2008 and ends March 14, 2008. Win a walk-on role on Stargate Atlantis!

triggrhaapi
January 4th, 2008, 11:28 PM
She lives in a world where that is a possibility with or without John. He need to get over himself. It is not his job to tell Teyla what chance she can take with HER baby, he is not the father therefore it isn't even open for discussion.

Yes it is his job, because he is her commanding officer. Maybe outside of the military context he has no right to do that, but certainly within the context of his team he does. To believe otherwise is absurd.

atlantis_babe34
January 4th, 2008, 11:39 PM
Pheww!

The Teyla issue i understand why Sheppard was so peeved, not jsut as her military comander but as her friend.

and for the Torri *wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!*:D, i so saw that coming. what a great arc, hope she has some sort of evilness. i can see her sitting in a big chair on her ship, "do this!, do that!" and when things don't go her way she would get pissed off. in other words; she plays evil well, alwasy has:D

Mekarri
January 4th, 2008, 11:47 PM
I really agree with this, I don't think Sheppard's reaction was out of line. I would have reacted the same way. He cares about her like she was family, and she knows that, I could understand if he was upset that she didn't trust him more. I liked when Teyla said she tried to tell him and he answered with "you didn't try hard enough".

I'm really happy it finally out that she is pregnant, I didn't want the secret too much longer. All in all, I really liked the episode.
I don't think he cares about her like family. He and military has always disrespected Teyla and her people. They treat them like children. Being pregnant is the most personal thing ever and it is up to her when she wants to share that information. It is not his right he is not the father. He is a co worker, colleague and a friend but that is all and it doesn't matter what he feels for her. And if he see her as family then that makes it worst. She feels alone and scared that she have lost the father of her child. Who gives a shi* how he feels. She was a protector of her people when he met her, she doesn't need his protection. Just because you are a woman doesn't mean in a time of war you get to sit it out because you are pregnant. She would be fighting the wraith pregnant or not if she never went to Atlantis.

bluealien
January 4th, 2008, 11:54 PM
She lives in a world where that is a possibility with or without John. He need to get over himself. It is not his job to tell Teyla what chance she can take with HER baby, he is not the father therefore it isn't even open for discussion.

Him not being the father has nothing to do with it. She is under his command and he had every right to know. What if the stunner blast had effected her baby, what if she had been shot. He would have blamed himself. Teyla is not with her people now and when Sheppard first met Teyla she wasn't out fighting the Wraith, as they hadn't been awakened, and certaintly not the Replicators so she wouldnt have been facing the dangers she is facing while on Johns team. Teyla also said that pregnant women remained active in the community, nothing about them putting themselves in the firing line. She was taking much more of a risk with her unborn child and that is Sheppard concern while she is on his team.
She is not only putting her childs life at risk but those of her team as well. What happens if she suffered complications while out on a missiion or under fire and one of them gets hurt while trying to protect her.

hisg1fans
January 4th, 2008, 11:54 PM
Loved it!

Loved it!

Loved it!

Loved it!

Great story, great surprises, great for Carter to dress down Ellis, Great Ronon and Teyla.....and pretty much everything else.

How in the world could Rodney trust a replicator?????!!!!????

Did I say I loved this epidsode? ;)

Mekarri
January 5th, 2008, 12:00 AM
Also, you have to think that some people react differently to certain situations. He cares a great deal for Teyla and perhaps he was just a little bit upset for the safety of her and her baby.
He is not responsible for her baby she is. She is not a child and it is up to her to decide what is too dangerous for HER child. John is not the father and I resent the fact that he act as if she need him to make decisions for her and the baby. With or without john she would still have to fight the wraith to stay alive. Her body, her baby, her decision. As long as she can fight then let her fight. Men always think they need to make decisions for women as if we wouldn't survive without them. When the truth is they wouldn't even exist without us.

Mekarri
January 5th, 2008, 12:05 AM
Him not being the father has nothing to do with it. She is under his command and he had every right to know. What if the stunner blast had effected her baby, what if she had been shot. He would have blamed himself. Teyla is not with her people now and when Sheppard first met Teyla she wasn't out fighting the Wraith, as they hadn't been awakened, and certaintly not the Replicators so she wouldnt have been facing the dangers she is facing while on Johns team. Teyla also said that pregnant women remained active in the community, nothing about them putting themselves in the firing line. She was taking much more of a risk with her unborn child and that is Sheppard concern while she is on his team.
She is not only putting her childs life at risk but those of her team as well. What happens if she suffered complications while out on a missiion or under fire and one of them gets hurt while trying to protect her.
What part you don't understand? It is not his place to worry about her unborn child. Her pregnancy is not putting the team at risk. When she gets to big to go on mission because she will slow them down then its time for her to sit it out if possible. But that is the only thing he needs to worry about. Her pregnancy is absolutely none of his business.

morjana
January 5th, 2008, 12:10 AM
May I be the first to say, FRAN is undeniably hot.

Gorgeous face, nice hair, and green eyes... I am a sucker for green eyes.

Any word yet on who guest-starred for that role?

Michelle Morgan

http://imdb.com/name/nm1382242/

Morjana

starfox
January 5th, 2008, 12:17 AM
What part you don't understand? It is not his place to worry about her unborn child. Her pregnancy is not putting the team at risk. When she gets to big to go on mission because she will slow them down then its time for her to sit it out if possible. But that is the only thing he needs to worry about. Her pregnancy is absolutely none of his business.

And you're not understanding that as her commander, it is. As military commander of Atlantis, every life on that base is his responsibility. When you're in a situation where you're depending on other people for your safety and they're depending on you for theirs, it goes beyond "my body, my business". If your body is responsible for keeping a bullet wound from appearing in my body, I'd like to know if there are things I need to look out for. If Teyla gets the crap beat out of her in a torture situation and miscarries while off-world, she's going to slow the team's escape more than she would otherwise.

Plus, I'm 99.9% positive that sending pregnant women into combat is against the military rules of every country in the IOA (I'd be really surprised if it's not). Teyla follows those rules as a resident of Atlantis. If she were living with her own people, she could do whatever the hell she wanted. But she's not. She agreed to live on Atlantis, she agreed to be under Sheppard's & Weir's & Carter's commands. You're required to follow the laws of whatever state/country you live in; this isn't that much different.


Also, we've got to remember that it's not like Sheppard heard the news, deliberated, and then decided to be a jerk. What we saw was a gut reaction, an emotional response to finding out that he'd been unknowingly breaking his own rules and putting a potential life in danger. There's no reason to believe we won't get an awkward apology later.

randy23
January 5th, 2008, 12:24 AM
Does anyone know the name of the actress that played Fran?
;)

You got me. Would [have been nice] if the writers fleshed out the character of Fran but alas.

Mekarri
January 5th, 2008, 12:31 AM
Yes it is his job, because he is her commanding officer. Maybe outside of the military context he has no right to do that, but certainly within the context of his team he does. To believe otherwise is absurd.
Why because men run the military so there world is law? When and if she decided to tell him she is pregnant is still up to her. She didn't join our military, she didn't take the oath and the only reason she is with them is because they screwed up and awaken the wraith. Her baby would have had a better chance at surviving if the Atlantis team would have never came alone. She join his team and helped them to battle the wraith. They should be grateful and beg for forgiveness from her and the rest of the people in galaxy She should tell you when and if decided to tell you and you can just deal with it. The same way she have to deal with the mess they created.

randy23
January 5th, 2008, 12:35 AM
I doubt it. I think the splinter faction wasn't anywhere near the planet so can carry on trying to attain ascension. <yawn>

I despise the whole ascension storyline. SG-1 or SGA.

suse

It's wrong to assume Weir wants merely ascension, will just have to wait and see.

morjana
January 5th, 2008, 12:43 AM
Does anyone know the name of the actress that played Fran?
;)

Michelle Morgan.

Morjana

Agent_Dark
January 5th, 2008, 12:45 AM
Why because men run the military so there world is law? When and if she decided to tell him she is pregnant is still up to her. She didn't join our military, she didn't take the oath and the only reason she is with them is because they screwed up and awaken the wraith. Her baby would have had a better chance at surviving if the Atlantis team would have never came alone. She join his team and helped them to battle the wraith. They should be grateful and beg for forgiveness from her and the rest of the people in galaxy She should tell you when and if decided to tell you and you can just deal with it. The same way she have to deal with the mess they created.

dude, get a grip. Pregnant women are NOT suitable for combat. Lets ignore the issue of the unborn child's health and safety if you want (though that alone is enough), but the mother herself is not capable of performing to her best standards. The hormone imbalance can lead to irrational decision making, she's physically impaired by the weight and bulk of the baby, and if anything did happen to the unborn child she's bound to have a reaction that could jeopardise what ever mission she's on. It doesn't matter if she's not from Earth, or part of the US military - she's at Atlantis as a guest so she does things their way. A pregnant woman is a risk to the mission and to everyone who's in that mission as well as herself and her unborn child. This has nothing to do with her being a woman, or any anti-women crap in so far as that it only applies to women because men don't give birth.

SierraGolf-OneNiner
January 5th, 2008, 12:47 AM
I can't believe it. Finally a great episode again. And here I was having already lost all faith in this show. I am glad to be proven wrong.

tsaxlady
January 5th, 2008, 12:48 AM
All in all I found this to be an very enjoyable hour of tv. It is an episode I would watch again. There was enough mixture of action, humor, and drama to keep my attention for the hour.

Mekarri
January 5th, 2008, 12:56 AM
And you're not understanding that as her commander, it is. As military commander of Atlantis, every life on that base is his responsibility. When you're in a situation where you're depending on other people for your safety and they're depending on you for theirs, it goes beyond "my body, my business". If your body is responsible for keeping a bullet wound from appearing in my body, I'd like to know if there are things I need to look out for. If Teyla gets the crap beat out of her in a torture situation and miscarries while off-world, she's going to slow the team's escape more than she would otherwise.

Plus, I'm 99.9% positive that sending pregnant women into combat is against the military rules of every country in the IOA (I'd be really surprised if it's not). Teyla follows those rules as a resident of Atlantis. If she were living with her own people, she could do whatever the hell she wanted. But she's not. She agreed to live on Atlantis, she agreed to be under Sheppard's & Weir's & Carter's commands. You're required to follow the laws of whatever state/country you live in; this isn't that much different.


Also, we've got to remember that it's not like Sheppard heard the news, deliberated, and then decided to be a jerk. What we saw was a gut reaction, an emotional response to finding out that he'd been unknowingly breaking his own rules and putting a potential life in danger. There's no reason to believe we won't get an awkward apology later.
I understand completely. If it wasn't for them (Atlantis team)this would not be happening to this degree. They are not in the US. And what we feel is not the only way to look at a situation. And a lot of time not the right way to see things. She has every right and even more so to be on Atlantis. They created this mess. So, oops my bad, should cover it. You speak of John being responsible for his people safety. What about all the other people that are not safe because of him and his teams. What about All the other children and unborn children that have died because of their actions but one unborn child is so much more important so that he doesn't feel guilty about putting her unborn child in harms way. Yea right. We Americans are so full of ourselves.
has also been brought to my attention that she might slow the down the team if she have some sort of pregnancy problem. But is it not the same thing if someone get shot, twist their ankle, or fall while on a mission but noooo I guess as long as you are not pregnant you can't slow the team down. Give me a break.

randy23
January 5th, 2008, 12:58 AM
No real point for Fran either. Did Rodney really have to make the cells into something so close to human?

This was already explained in the episode. Rodney disabled too many basic protocols of the nanites [ he was working on] to work with his program, therefore, the most logical choice would be to construct a nearly fully functional human replicator with a simple, primary directive. (Needless to say, Rodney somehow managed to create a very attractive one, go figure).



Did Carter and Rodney really have to have such a weak dialog about the rights of Fran? It added little to the story.

Well, actually, it did touch breifly on the significance of Replicators' right to exist as do organics; the reason why they are all fighting to survive.

starfox
January 5th, 2008, 01:14 AM
I understand completely. If it wasn't for them (Atlantis team)this would not be happening to this degree. They are not in the US. And what we feel is not the only way to look at a situation. And a lot of time not the right way to see things. She has every right and even more so to be on Atlantis. They created this mess. So, oops my bad, should cover it. You speak of John being responsible for his people safety. What about all the other people that are not safe because of him and his teams. What about All the other children and unborn children that have died because of their actions but one unborn child is so much more important so that he doesn't feel guilty about putting her unborn child in harms way. Yea right. We Americans are so full of ourselves.
has also been brought to my attention that she might slow the down the team if she have some sort of pregnancy problem. But is it not the same thing if someone get shot, twist their ankle, or fall while on a mission but noooo I guess as long as you are not pregnant you can't slow the team down. Give me a break.


a) There's a difference between getting hurt on a mission because of something that happens while you're on the mission and getting hurt on a mission because of a condition you brought in with you. Pregnant women don't belong in combat unless absolutely necessary. Pregnancy changes the way they deal with injuries and it changes the way people deal with them. It's an exploitable weakness.

b) This entire episode was about the Atlanteans fixing their mistakes. As a Canadian produced show, Atlantis goes beyond any guilt complex some viewers may have with American gung-hoery. Also? Waking up the Wraith was a mistake; get over it already. It wasn't done by any massive military action. The culling that took several Athosians and resulted in Sheppard waking up the Wraith happened because Sheppard picked up Teyla's necklace. So if you want to play the blame game, get mad at Teyla for not tying a better knot, or get mad at the person who gave her the necklace in the first place.

Anyway, this episode is about the Atlanteans going all out, at great personal risk, to fix a problem they created. The Asurans aren't bothering them; if Sheppard really didn't care about anyone else's lives, he'd just let them continue plundering the galaxy.


ETA:
I'd also like to point out that Carter didn't argue with Sheppard pulling Teyla off active duty. It doesn't have to do with her being a woman; it has to do with the fact that she is a member of an off-world team.

Major_Griff
January 5th, 2008, 01:22 AM
Men always think they need to make decisions for women as if we wouldn't survive without them. When the truth is they wouldn't even exist without us.

Reality Check: You do know that works both ways right?

As for this debate about Sheppard's reaction, I think that he had every right to react that way, she's know she's been pregnant for two months and went off world and got stunned, beat up, shot at, etc. He is responsible for her safety as her CO while they're off world. Not only was she jeopardizing her babies life by remaining on active duty, but the lives of her teammates as well. At the same time I think he overreacted and didn't need to yell at her like he did, but every thing he said was valid. I also agree that it was with in Teyla's rights to keep her pregnancy private, but it was definitely irresponsible of her to continue to go offworld, and to explain to Sheppard and Carter why she would have to stop going offworld, she'd have had to tell them. And they were bound to find out any way so all in all Sheppard and Teyla were both right, but I think Sheppard was more right.

Nicksterr
January 5th, 2008, 01:30 AM
Comcast SciFi HD


In my area on Comcast Cable, Sci-Fi HD was just introduced on the HD tier. Now some of us lucky Americans can finally see SGA as it was meant to be seen.

I figured. I have Charter HD but they don't have Sci-Fi HD on their list. I put in a request today, can't hurt. I know Sci-Fi is a popular channel and I'm sure they want any advantage they can get over DirecTV as far as selecting the most popular HD channels.

Why Carson? Why?
January 5th, 2008, 01:32 AM
Reality Check: You do know that works both ways right?

As for this debate about Sheppard's reaction, I think that he had every right to react that way, she's know she's been pregnant for two months and went off world and got stunned, beat up, shot at, etc. He is responsible for her safety as her CO while they're off world. Not only was she jeopardizing her babies life by remaining on active duty, but the lives of her teammates as well. At the same time I think he overreacted and didn't need to yell at her like he did, but every thing he said was valid. I also agree that it was with in Teyla's rights to keep her pregnancy private, but it was definitely irresponsible of her to continue to go offworld, and to explain to Sheppard and Carter why she would have to stop going offworld, she'd have had to tell them. And they were bound to find out any way so all in all Sheppard and Teyla were both right, but I think Sheppard was more right.

Yeah I agree with that, would you really like to go off world and have your un born child shot/stunned at... I for one wouldn't.

I'm gonna have to say right here that that episode is now my No.1 in Atlantis favorites just every part of that was awesome you think yep the wraith gonna hold em hostage and nope you think some of the planet replicators gonna be alive... nope loved the scene were you see all the ships awaiting to go into hyperspace/entering hyperspace that was just soooo ARGH!! AWESOME

Armbrahm62
January 5th, 2008, 01:51 AM
lady its obvious you've never been in the military. In a unit like Shephard's if someone is sick or for some reason can't operate at full capacity they are left behind. in teyla's case think of it this way what if the team is caught in a fire fight and she decides in the middle of the fight to not support Ronin and shepherd out of concern for unborn. She'd already stated her reluctance to participate in the missions due to what i assume was morning sickness. He's well within his rights as unit commander to pull her out if he feels that she won't be able to perform her duties at her usual abilities/ Remember its his neck and those of his unit out there and everyone has to be at there tip top shape.

Armbrahm62
January 5th, 2008, 01:57 AM
lady its obvious you've never been in the military. In a unit like Shephard's if someone is sick or for some reason can't operate at full capacity they are left behind. in teyla's case think of it this way what if the team is caught in a fire fight and she decides in the middle of the fight to not support Ronin and shepherd out of concern for unborn. She'd already stated her reluctance to participate in the missions due to what i assume was morning sickness. He's well within his rights as unit commander to pull her out if he feels that she won't be able to perform her duties at her usual abilities/ Remember its his neck and those of his unit out there and everyone has to be at there tip top shape.


As for Colonel Ellis getting reamed by Carter, she was in her right to do so, but she needs to take ol' Rodney aside and let him have it, because Ellis was right, he was blowing hot air up there and if im the captain of a ship thats going into battle against a superior enemy i certainly dont need to sit there and listen to some blowhard spout crap!

2ndgenerationalteran
January 5th, 2008, 02:04 AM
AMAZING, absolutely stunning, yes a lot of stuff came out but it wasnt overwhelming. something to chew on no matter what you fancie. Morality issues, vivid space battles, and the finish... OH MY don't get me started! By FAR the BEST episode ever made, possibly in television history. In contrast no show i have ever seen comes close in the revelations. Last episode of Lost's ending was on par with this but SGA presented it with a huge BANG. My profile is gonna get updated with this.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 02:38 AM
Predictable episode and I am tired of these clichés. The moment I saw the camera going to the screen I knew the replicators were not destroyed. When I saw the boots I knew it was repli-Weir. Big fuss for nothing. Rodney was out of place, Larrin needs to go out more and realise the whole chair thing is pointless, Sheppard was dull, Ellis tried to be funny when he attacked McKay but because this is the Rodney Sheppard show the writers made it in a way that we felt offended, and the pointless blob thing was just an excuse for the money they invested in CGI.

Wayston
January 5th, 2008, 02:59 AM
Great episode. Unfortunatly there are some inconsistencies that make me go :confused: :comeon: :doci10: ... I suppose the writers could have come up with decent explanations but didn't for the sake of brevity, but they do test the suspension of disbelief for the viewer...

in spite of Carter's claim that the Asurans are extremely adaptive to new strategies they are not. They didn't seem to have implemented any safety/defensive protocols after 1) the humans' succesful escape after first contact 2) the nuclear missile strikes on the shipyards 3) the 'zpm heist'. Nor did the retaking of the Atlantis cityship by the humans seem to have bettered their ability to handle the human attacks.

This would have been more pallatable if there was an on screen explanation as to why the Asurans

*don't use those ancient anti-ship satellites (if they can send out a space satellite to cut through atlantis' shields, they can build anti-ship satellites for defense too)
*don't have long distance scanners (which seem to be able to pick up ships in hyperspace too)
*don't keep their sensitive areas shielded/guarded (do these replicators even use oxygen? couldn't they flood everything with some lethal chemical substance?)
*have pea brains for strategists:
-when you are faced with a new and unknown strategy that is picking off your ships one by one you don't simply have the knee jerk reaction of pulling everything back into one place... you will look for safety in numbers by sending ships in packs.
-apart from drones there are apparantly no defensive measures for the asuran home world, save for pulling ships from active duties elsewhere
-with 30 ships surely you would at least expect a rotation of ships on high alert (i.e. in the front and fully powered up) and ships standing down
-asuran alpha site, anyone? If a few replicator cells are all that is needed to rebuild the asuran civilisation, then a few back up plans would essentially make you unbeatable

Now the easy explanation of all of this is that the Asurans were programmed to be agressive and therefor wouldn't necessarily be able to entertain even basic notions of defense or have any willingnes to spend resources on defensive efforts, but it makes them look a bit daft and it doesn't fit with the ultimate defensive manoevre of retreating all ships to the home world.

The other bothersome thing is obviously the weakness of the asuran ships when faced with a small number of technologically inferior ships. Again this could be explained by the Asurans overextending themselves due to their agressive programming, but then you'd expect the Asuran ships to show some signs of damage or overuse or whatever.

Basically these Aurora class vessles have been pictured as the culmination of Ancient ship technology only to see a huge fleet of 30 ships in what appears to be prime condition be humbled by a rag tag fleet of mostly inferior vessles. Sure the dialogue of the space battle scenes indicates that the participants know fullwell they cannot win or even keep up the fight for very long, but even then all the asurans would have had to do was to launch drones and the fight would be over instantly.

So in conclusion, great story and great scenes but as is so often the case the overal tactics and strategies are lacking a bit of meat.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 03:02 AM
The only thing worth mentioning in this episode :P? FRAN was cute :P

Lightbane
January 5th, 2008, 03:10 AM
The replicator's shields certainly didn't last long against the asguard plasma beams.

Plot hole: Why didn't the replicators activate the city shield to stop Rodney and the team from beaming in?

Kick ass totally epic battle scene. Really cool hyperspace entrance, those replicators didn't know what hit them.

As far as we know only two ships were lost, one of Larrin's ships got torn up by the repli-drones. And from the info for next weeks episode Spoils of War a Wraith hive involved in the fight had been damaged badly.

Ending sequence, *flail* *squeal* *faint* AsurWeir! I think shes the real Weir and that she decieved the collective so well into thinking that they had killed her.

atlantis_babe34
January 5th, 2008, 03:17 AM
Why because men run the military so there world is law? When and if she decided to tell him she is pregnant is still up to her. She didn't join our military, she didn't take the oath and the only reason she is with them is because they screwed up and awaken the wraith. Her baby would have had a better chance at surviving if the Atlantis team would have never came alone. She join his team and helped them to battle the wraith. They should be grateful and beg for forgiveness from her and the rest of the people in galaxy She should tell you when and if decided to tell you and you can just deal with it. The same way she have to deal with the mess they created.

I think we need to take a step back and pop a chill pill before i put my two cents worth in here. *takes a breath* ok...

John's reaction to the news is how any person would react to finding out that not only a team member but a close friend is hiding a secret that big. half of John's job is to protect her. If she was in the field and she Miscarried, John would most likely be asked "why didn't you do something? You knew she was having a baby", The fact him not knowing put him and his team at risk. Speaking hyperthtically what would happen if we had a repeat of submission where the Queen got inside Teyla's mind and did something to her baby, that would comprimise the mission and put the team at risk.

Also the fact that She didn't tell him anyways as a good friend hurt him as it would anyone. You've been hiding a secret for 2 months and u don't tell the person that u spend most of your time with and they find out under circumstances u didn't want, i would be pissed off as well. its just not the protection of Atlantis and his team, John must have felt that Teyla couldn't trust him with this if she wanted to keep it a secret and that to anyone hurts when u consider that person a really good friend.


And you're not understanding that as her commander, it is. As military commander of Atlantis, every life on that base is his responsibility. When you're in a situation where you're depending on other people for your safety and they're depending on you for theirs, it goes beyond "my body, my business". If your body is responsible for keeping a bullet wound from appearing in my body, I'd like to know if there are things I need to look out for. If Teyla gets the crap beat out of her in a torture situation and miscarries while off-world, she's going to slow the team's escape more than she would otherwise.

Plus, I'm 99.9% positive that sending pregnant women into combat is against the military rules of every country in the IOA (I'd be really surprised if it's not). Teyla follows those rules as a resident of Atlantis. If she were living with her own people, she could do whatever the hell she wanted. But she's not. She agreed to live on Atlantis, she agreed to be under Sheppard's & Weir's & Carter's commands. You're required to follow the laws of whatever state/country you live in; this isn't that much different.


Also, we've got to remember that it's not like Sheppard heard the news, deliberated, and then decided to be a jerk. What we saw was a gut reaction, an emotional response to finding out that he'd been unknowingly breaking his own rules and putting a potential life in danger. There's no reason to believe we won't get an awkward apology later.

i Tottaly agree, The Australian defence force is exactly the same. They put u behind a desk (i'm pretty sure)


I understand completely. If it wasn't for them (Atlantis team)this would not be happening to this degree. They are not in the US. And what we feel is not the only way to look at a situation. And a lot of time not the right way to see things. She has every right and even more so to be on Atlantis. They created this mess. So, oops my bad, should cover it. You speak of John being responsible for his people safety. What about all the other people that are not safe because of him and his teams. What about All the other children and unborn children that have died because of their actions but one unborn child is so much more important so that he doesn't feel guilty about putting her unborn child in harms way. Yea right. We Americans are so full of ourselves.
has also been brought to my attention that she might slow the down the team if she have some sort of pregnancy problem. But is it not the same thing if someone get shot, twist their ankle, or fall while on a mission but noooo I guess as long as you are not pregnant you can't slow the team down. Give me a break.

Obviously u have no idea the type of strain pregancy has on the body. Not to mention the number of things that could happen that could be not only life threating to the baby but to her. From one little thing such as a fall she could lose that baby. It's John's job to decide whether she should come on missions, not her. If she is a part of the team and part of the Atlantis crew she has to abide by the laws set in place. if she dosen't wanna do that she can scamper off to New Athos and have her baby there and do what ever the hell she wants. She has "a say" but not while she is in Atlantis.


Reality Check: You do know that works both ways right?

As for this debate about Sheppard's reaction, I think that he had every right to react that way, she's know she's been pregnant for two months and went off world and got stunned, beat up, shot at, etc. He is responsible for her safety as her CO while they're off world. Not only was she jeopardizing her babies life by remaining on active duty, but the lives of her teammates as well. At the same time I think he overreacted and didn't need to yell at her like he did, but every thing he said was valid. I also agree that it was with in Teyla's rights to keep her pregnancy private, but it was definitely irresponsible of her to continue to go offworld, and to explain to Sheppard and Carter why she would have to stop going offworld, she'd have had to tell them. And they were bound to find out any way so all in all Sheppard and Teyla were both right, but I think Sheppard was more right.

Sheppard could have not yelled at her yeah sure, but what he said was important. He cares for her, Alot, they have been friends for a long time and i don't know about anyone else here but if one of my oldest friedn held a secret like that and didn't tell me after 2 montsh and then decided to tell me in impending doom, i would be pissed off.



And thats my two cents..*takes a breath* whoo!

anyone got any piccies yet?

andrewag
January 5th, 2008, 03:57 AM
I loved the dig at Rodney for not really having a viable plan. Carter handled the situation surprisingly.

and OMG, those asguard weapons look so great coming out of earth ships!

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 04:23 AM
The whole Ancient myth was thrown out the window with this battle.

expendable_crewman
January 5th, 2008, 04:42 AM
First, the ep was good. I liked it.

On the debate about the way Sheppard handled the news ...


She is his responsibility. She's under his command. He's the one who sends her into combat situations and if she miscarried because of an injury she received while off-world with the team, it would be his fault. Plus, she sprung it on him after she had just been stunned while in a Wraith hive ship because of an alliance with a Wraith that he set up. He had every right to be a little peeved.

I was under the impression that she was not contracted to Sheppard's military, being a Pegasus native and a leader of her people, and she can quit whenever she wants.


Before the Atlanteans, the Athosians didn't resist the Wraith on anything near the level Teyla does now. We discovered in the pilot that they'd abandoned the ruins of their great cities and were afraid to enter them. Teyla doesn't say that pregnant Athosian women fight. She says that they remain active in the community.

This confuses me. Small cullings in between the big cullings were ongoing. Teyla told Sheppard this in Rising, episode one. No woman in the Pegasus is safe from a stunner blast. Pegasus women, pregnant or not, get stunned, blasted, and culled. And she told him in BAMSR her people don't hide just because they are pregnant.

TBH, my take on Teyla's activities pre-expedition is different than yours. I believe she worked vigorously and strenuously each time a dart came through the Stargate to keep people she cared about from being culled. Her activities would have included running, jumping, fighting, pulling, and carrying. She ran toward the settlement, not away from it, in Rising. That's "resisting the Wraith" in my book. It certainly qualifies as life-risking behavior. Remove the Wraith from the picture and I believe she went through the Stargate regularly, without a MALP to tell her it was safe. The Pegasus and its dangers are not alien to her.

But even if you believe she woke up one day in Atlantis and miraculously knew how to handle herself in combat because ... well, for whatever reason you believe she miraculously learned how to hold her own in a fight against beings trying to kill her, the life of a Pegasus female is not pampered.


Yes it is his job, because he is her commanding officer. Maybe outside of the military context he has no right to do that, but certainly within the context of his team he does. To believe otherwise is absurd.

Actually, in the military, it's a medical officer's job to say what a person can and can't do for any medical condition, including pregnancy. And that's all pregnancy is or should be to one's commander, unless he's the daddy.

The days of one's commander reacting from his or her gut to kick people off active duty for pregnancy went out in the 80s, when common sense came in. Sheppard could have said "Go see Keller for clearance to continue working" or "because I don't want you to continue working" or "you're grounded until Keller clears you medically."

Grounding a person impacts them professionally and personally and it affects the unit, so it's not done on the spur of the moment, unless the term "pending" is attached.

But I agree with Mekarri: that's not the point.

Three months along, without her friend, boss, or whatever you want to call him (Sheppard) to tell her what she should be worried about, poor Teyla'd never figure it out on her own. Without Sheppard, poor Teyla'd never quite get or do what's good for her; she'd never weigh risk properly or according to her needs, or choose the proper direction and action for her welfare and that of her unborn child.

That's just ridiculous and the scene did not do Teyla (or Sheppard) justice.

This part's interesting:
Pregnant women don't belong in combat unless absolutely necessary. Pregnancy changes the way they deal with injuries and it changes the way people deal with them. It's an exploitable weakness.When you have a debilitating condition, you can't play. That is true. But check this out. Why would you think that the status of your female co-worker's reproductive system is something you'd know about before she was showing or removed from active duty by a physician? There is no law or rule in the civilian world or in the military that requires anyone to discuss her reproductive status outside of the doc's office until the doc says you can't work anymore, whatever *line of work* you happen to be in.

Three months pregnant doesn't even show. (Forget that the actress RL looked big as a one-bedroom mini-condo in that scene!) No one I worked with knew when I was three months pregnant. I told who I wanted to, when I wanted to. It's a private decision, and that's what medical personnel are there for, to tell you when you need to worry about work, the baby, and all that goes with it. Eh-hem ... Keller with her rubber "you're grounded" stamp knew Teyla was pregnant before Teyla did. By military standards, Keller was the only person Teyla was *required* to tell.

krash
January 5th, 2008, 04:57 AM
Ronon and Teyla too cute aww he was very supportive I think Sheppard had every right to be upset with Teyla, he was probably very worried about her and the fact the baby might be in danger because of what happened.
That's something I think all the would-be Sheppard/Teyla ship-heads were in a tizzy over...they're holding onto hope that those two would hook up. I totally understand why Sheppard pulled her from the team: everytime she steps through the gate...she's putting that baby at risk.

I don't think Carter was asking in a "are you the daddy?" sense as much as assuming Sheppard would have known...being so close to Teyla.

It was cool to see Ronin be so laid back about it and actually walk with her to the infirmary to get checked out. Would surprise me if Sheppard was just a lil upset that she didn't tell him sooner.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 5th, 2008, 05:22 AM
The only space battles I can think of that are better than the one in this episode are 'Return of the Jedi' and 'Revenge of the Sith' - Amazing SFX.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 5th, 2008, 05:24 AM
It was cool to see Ronin be so laid back about it and actually walk with her to the infirmary to get checked out. Would surprise me if Sheppard was just a lil upset that she didn't tell him sooner.

That "Ronan's a good name..." line was funny.

iolanda
January 5th, 2008, 05:27 AM
HOLY CRAP!
:thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09::thoranime09:

Indeed.


I am stunned. Thrice. Great Episode. Great!

shaloom
January 5th, 2008, 05:39 AM
Hi All

This episode sounds grate, does anyone know were I can download this from?

Thanks

Southern Red
January 5th, 2008, 05:42 AM
Now that's more like it. Finally an episode that didn't drag and didn't have me wondering when something was going to happen. Great action. Good acting. Everything clicked.

At last, Carter seems to fit. I didn't enjoy seeing her in Weir's leadership role but loved the technobabble with Rodney and the confused look on Sheppard's face. And she did the right thing dressing Ellis down even though Rodney was very annoying.

I like Larrin. I hope we see her again. I don't think Sheppard was "kirking" but liked seeing a woman who doesn't prostrate herself when he walks up. He clearly likes her and after all he's been through lately, needs a bit of fun.

Sheppard had absolutely the correct reaction to the pregnancy announcement, both as a commander/team leader and friend. How dare she put everybody on the team in danger by keeping a secret like this? And if they were really "family", she would have told them as soon as she found out. I know she wants to continue looking for her people, especially Kanan whom she cares about deeply, but the guys had a right to know. I would hate to think that my son was going into danger with a pregnant woman on his team who may or may not be able to drag his 200 lb body to safety if he gets knocked out. I loved the Ronon/Teyla moment. He is obviously closer to her than any of the others. Why the writers aren't going to pursue a romantic connection with those two is puzzling when they have perfect chemistry. If I didn't know better, I'd think that whole scene was a setup to putting them together when Kanan is dispensed with. And he will be because you know there can't be a stable relationship in SciFi. Oh, and Keller should have taken her off active duty.

I loved Fran. I hope Rodney makes another one.

Now, the ending. Awesome beyond words! If they don't do something with this new arc and the new Weir character, they don't deserve to call themselves writers. The possibilities are endless to have a terrific new story arc involving her ship and whatever she is up to.

I was borderline anti-S4 until this, now I am looking forward to the rest of the season and beyond.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 05:42 AM
Hi All

This episode sounds grate, does anyone know were I can download this from?

Thanks


Try here:

www.gateworlddoesnotpromotepiracy.com


or:

www.thoughtforalongtimebeforeyouasked.net

technoextreme
January 5th, 2008, 05:57 AM
The whole Ancient myth was thrown out the window with this battle.
Well there technology is advanced but technically the Apollo and the Dadelous shouldn't have had any problems. They were using technology that is a couple hundred years older than the ancients. The Wraith drove the ancients out of the galaxy so there technology was fairly battle hardened. Though judging from the damage the ships took they also rely on their large numbers. The only unknown was the traveler's ships of which we know one was destroyed.
Predictable episode and I am tired of these clichés. The moment I saw the camera going to the screen I knew the replicators were not destroyed. When I
Didn't have to wait until the end of the episode. The replicators from the seven ships that were first destroyed are still viable.

Uber
January 5th, 2008, 05:59 AM
Hi All

This episode sounds grate, does anyone know were I can download this from?

ThanksI believe Itunes has it up already. I'm not sure if it is on Unbox as well but it should be on Itunes.

http://www.apple.com/itunes/

Orion's Star
January 5th, 2008, 06:00 AM
By military standards, Keller was the only person Teyla was *required* to tell.
I don't think this is true at all. If by some unforseen act of huge incompetence, a female soldier is diagnosed as pregnant, and that the medical officer responsible for the diagnosis did not inform the female soldier's commanding officer, the female soldier, as far as I know, is required by her respective branch of the armed services' code of conduct to inform her commanding officer within a certain timeframe (usually around 30 days). Teyla clearly didn't do that. And the fact that Keller didn't inform Sheppard either doesn't really speak well for the whole situation.


The days of one's commander reacting from his or her gut to kick people off active duty for pregnancy went out in the 80s, when common sense came in. Sheppard could have said "Go see Keller for clearance to continue working" or "because I don't want you to continue working" or "you're grounded until Keller clears you medically."

I understand your general objection, and I agree for the most part. The onus should be on Keller to render a verdict, but for some reason, Keller has been remarkably absent during this whole debacle. How the writers ever thought it would be okay for Keller to never tell John about the pregnancy is beyond me. But I do think there is a significant difference between someone like Teyla and the average female soldier. Most women in the military today are generally not anywhere close to serving in combat situations, let alone a frontline, infantry unit like Sheppard's team invariably becomes when they go out traipsing across the galaxy. There is a huge difference there. It doesn't really matter if Teyla can still function relatively normal, or if Pegasus women regularly face danger, the only thing that matters is how the military handles things. Hell, for example, according to Army regs, as soon as pregancy is confirmed, they take you off PT almost immediately, and I doubt PT is as stressful or strenous as some of the stuff Teyla does on a regular basis.

I mean, do you really think that they would continue to let her regularly put herself in harm's way once they learned she was pregnant? I seriously doubt that would ever happen. I do agree with you that his immediately "grounding" her was ill conceived and probably unnecessary. There was no need to relieve her of duty, he should have just told her she wasn't going to be going on any missions for the forseeable future. She could simply go to work in Atlantis, which is what I'm sure they will inevitably have her do.

starfox
January 5th, 2008, 06:12 AM
First, the ep was good. I liked it.

On the debate about the way Sheppard handled the news ...



I was under the impression that she was not contracted to Sheppard's military, being a Pegasus native and a leader of her people, and she can quit whenever she wants.



This confuses me. Small cullings in between the big cullings were ongoing. Teyla told Sheppard this in Rising, episode one. No woman in the Pegasus is safe from a stunner blast. Pegasus women, pregnant or not, get stunned, blasted, and culled. And she told him in BAMSR her people don't hide just because they are pregnant.

TBH, my take on Teyla's activities pre-expedition is different than yours. I believe she worked vigorously and strenuously each time a dart came through the Stargate to keep people she cared about from being culled. Her activities would have included running, jumping, fighting, pulling, and carrying. She ran toward the settlement, not away from it, in Rising. That's "resisting the Wraith" in my book. It certainly qualifies as life-risking behavior. Remove the Wraith from the picture and I believe she went through the Stargate regularly, without a MALP to tell her it was safe. The Pegasus and its dangers are not alien to her.

But even if you believe she woke up one day in Atlantis and miraculously knew how to handle herself in combat because ... well, for whatever reason you believe she miraculously learned how to hold her own in a fight against beings trying to kill her, the life of a Pegasus female is not pampered.



The days of one's commander reacting from his or her gut to kick people off active duty for pregnancy went out in the 80s, when common sense came in. Sheppard could have said "Go see Keller for clearance to continue working" or "because I don't want you to continue working" or "you're grounded until Keller clears you medically."

Grounding a person impacts them professionally and personally and it affects the unit, so it's not done on the spur of the moment, unless the term "pending" is attached.

But I agree with Mekarri: that's not the point.

Three months along, without her friend, boss, or whatever you want to call him (Sheppard) to tell her what she should be worried about, poor Teyla'd never figure it out on her own. Without Sheppard, poor Teyla'd never quite get or do what's good for her; she'd never weigh risk properly or according to her needs, or choose the proper direction and action for her welfare and that of her unborn child.

That's just ridiculous and the scene did not do Teyla (or Sheppard) justice.

This part's interesting:When you have a debilitating condition, you can't play. That is true. But check this out. Why would you think that the status of your female co-worker's reproductive system is something you'd know about before she was showing or removed from active duty by a physician? There is no law or rule in the civilian world or in the military that requires anyone to discuss her reproductive status outside of the doc's office until the doc says you can't work anymore, whatever *line of work* you happen to be in.

Three months pregnant doesn't even show. (Forget that the actress RL looked big as a one-bedroom mini-condo in that scene!) No one I worked with knew when I was three months pregnant. I told who I wanted to, when I wanted to. It's a private decision, and that's what medical personnel are there for, to tell you when you need to worry about work, the baby, and all that goes with it. Eh-hem ... Keller with her rubber "you're grounded" stamp knew Teyla was pregnant before Teyla did. By military standards, Keller was the only person Teyla was *required* to tell.

a) The third time you quoted me, it was a misquote. I don't quite remember who said that, but it wasn't me.

b) I'm not suggesting that being pregnant means Teyla should stop being active at all. I'm not one of those people who thinks pregnany women should stop work altogether just 'cause they're popping one out - in fact, if you're not on bedrest and don't have a job that would risk complications, keep on going; just don't be stupid. And I think going into combat carrying a child when a large percentage of pregnancies result in miscarriages (though, to be fair, I have no clue what the Athosian miscarriage rate is) is less that smart. I don't think that Teyla should stop sparring on the show, nor did I imply that Athosian women didn't train and participate in hand-to-hand while pregnant. But there's a marked difference between getting hit with a bantos rod by someone you work with, and unknown enemy of the week shooting you with a bullet or energy weapon. When people were stunned during cullings, the effects of that on an unborn child didn't matter so much, as if you were stunned, you were marked for death anyway. That's not the case now.

The Athosians had their pocket of resistance, but I'm pretty sure that Teyla had never been inside a hive ship before the first episode.

I didn't suggest that the Athosians didn't resist the Wraith. I did, however, state that the level of the resistance was different. There's a difference between fighting for your life because someone came to your planet and you have to, and voluntarily going out and entering situations that make you fight for your life.


--------------------------

Also, and I think people are forgetting this, it's not like Sheppard deliberated and arrived at this decision. This was sprung on him in the middle of an ongoing, high-risk operation. What we're seeing onscree is a gut reaction to the news that someone close to him, who he's responsible for, has kept something from him and put him in a situation where his orders are endangering a life. He's understandably upset. Perhaps he should have gotten Keller's word. I'm sure he will before doing the paperwork. But the scene we got was a blend between military!Sheppard and John the friend, which is why I liked it. I'm interested in the fact that Carter didn't disagree. There wasn't time for much argument, but a simple "We'll talk about this" would have been there if she disagreed.

Night Marshal
January 5th, 2008, 06:14 AM
Someone Said that this the best space battle they had ever seen I suggest watching Severed Dreams from the Third Season of Babylon 5. The CGI is ten years old but darn its pretty and you really get a sense of big ships working with Smaller ship and the Roles that fighters have in a huge space battle.

As for the Ep I liked it but Part of me wishes that they would have taken Atlantis itself into the fight. Because you know Atlantis would have been worth 10 ships. I think that was one of the best shows in a while but it was a bit rushed but to be honest if they have spread it out I don't think it would have been as enjoyable.

SG13-NightOps
January 5th, 2008, 06:17 AM
best. episode. ever!

loved every minute of it.. even the surprise at the end! They seriously outdid themselves!

kirmit
January 5th, 2008, 06:21 AM
Good, solid episode, i liked sheppards reaction to Teyla being pregnant, the guy actually showed some emotion :P. Loved Fran, so simply but really likeabel character. I must say though I have to be one of the only people who wasn't that impressed with the battle, yes it was good with lots of ships and such but it just lacked something, can't put my finger on what, I still like the 'Camelot' battle better.

s09119
January 5th, 2008, 06:30 AM
I want to like this episode. No, I want to love this episode. It had such an epic feel, and so many amazing scenes... but it falters a bit too much for me to ignore.

The Good:
- Travelers are back! Larrin was far better this time around (though I didn't mind her too much last time), and I liked how she was showing up to attack the Wraith just as Sheppard was showing up to make a deal with them. Interesting meeting for them two.
- Teyla's pregnancy revealed; I'm fine with how John handled it. Teyla was hiding it from him while on deadly missions for a while now, after all... But I'm happy it's out in the open.
- FRAN was cool. I hope we see more Friendly Replicator Androids in the future.
- For once, a solution to a bad guy that made sense! I had actually considered something like they did way back in the "Reckoning" days, when it looks like the disruptor was never going to work again.
- Asgard upgrades not as powerful as I first feared... either that or Aurora-class vessels have superior shielding to Ori warships (three or four hits destroyed the Ori vessels in "Unending"... it took significantly more (eight or nine) to destroy an Aurora in "BAMSR", with two 304s together.
- Wraith-Atlantean-Traveler alliance was cool.
- REPLIWEIR LIVES!!!!!!!

The Bad:
- CGI. Ugh, what the Hell happened? The only ships that looked good at all were the 304s and Larrin's Aurora... well, all the Auroras. But the Wraith ships were downright un-detailed and purple??? They've always been a pale violet/grey/blue until now, why the sudden obscenely-bright purple? And the rail gun animation was terrible! It looked so cheesy and fake...
- NO DRONES? Come ON! The Auroras or the people on the planet didn't launch a single drone (save Larrin's), even though Carter made it seem that thousands would be headed their way. PLOT HOLE.
- NO SHIELDS? None of the Asuran ships seemed to have shields at all. They were being ripped apart by 302 missiles, for God's sake! PLOT HOLE.
- In "No Man's Land", we saw the Orion take a crapload of punishment from the very-powerful Wraith weaponry. In "BAMSR", two missiles from an F-302 blew a large portion of an Aurora up... now if that isn't a PLOT HOLE I don't know what is...
- What happened to Oberoth? I thought they'd at least show his face or something, as he's the "face" of the Asurans...

My brain says ** at best, but my love for Atlantis and the epic-ness of this episode will force me to give ***.

Final Grade: ***

FurlingsAreMyFriends
January 5th, 2008, 06:35 AM
Okay, I seriously did not see that ending coming. I expected the mass to be floating in space... This is the first episode in a LONG time that kept me on my toes... the past few have been quite predictable, but this one...

WOW. They blew me away!

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
January 5th, 2008, 06:53 AM
Hey Here's a question for you what did Sheppard mean in "This Mortal Coil" by " Yeah. We tricked you, but don’t feel so bad. After all, we almost had ourselves convinced." i wonder if this has to do with Weir's little command of an ancient warship?

Xicer
January 5th, 2008, 07:03 AM
Haha yeah I guess the destruction of the Auroras was way too easy. I was agreeing with what Caldwell said after he destroyed the first Aurora.

ColCaldwell
January 5th, 2008, 07:15 AM
I'm kinda crossing my fingers that maybe its been a 'media silence' on this end. When the fandom found out Weir was being 'downsized' it caused such a stir they've been trying to find a way to quell it.

But for all the news that has come out--Torri interviews, stuff on Joe's blog, etc, about her not returning, etc--this was a HECK of a cliffhanger to leave us with and not have a plan for resolution. I mean, the last line was "now we can begin" or summat? If you never intended to bring the character back, why the last 30 seconds? Even if you announced "4" episodes, if negotiations were breaking down, why not just cut this last part? You don't have to hold to 4 appearances just to please the fans. If you had no chance of her coming back, there is no point to this scene--so I kinda hope that they kept under wraps she'd be returning until now.

We'll find out in the next few weeks or so, I guess...

You are forgetting that these writers like to leave characters in that little thing called the plothole...Jonas, Ford, etc.

MacDevil
January 5th, 2008, 07:19 AM
The Bad:
- CGI. Ugh, what the Hell happened? The only ships that looked good at all were the 304s and Larrin's Aurora... well, all the Auroras. But the Wraith ships were downright un-detailed and purple??? They've always been a pale violet/grey/blue until now, why the sudden obscenely-bright purple? And the rail gun animation was terrible! It looked so cheesy and fake...


I noticed this too. I thought it was the poor quality of the TV I was watching on (which was not the TV I usually watch on). I suspect that they had to reduce the overall level of detailing a little to make the CGI work on the entire battle fit into the production schedule and the budget. Still the rail gun effect was noticeably bad.

Eri13
January 5th, 2008, 07:20 AM
You are forgetting that these writers like to leave characters in that little thing called the plothole...Jonas, Ford, etc.


No, I'm not forgetting. I'm just hoping for something a little better. But I'm also not getting out the 'she's back' banners until I hear something for sure.