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Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 03:37 PM
so? what's the big deal? the opening credits are for regular characters, she's a recurring character in s4 thus doesn't need to be in those credits

If I'm not mistaken, Carter is (was) also recurring. :p

But I think she meant it like when Rainbow got replaced with Jason in season 2. That didn't happen until the 4th episode. The opening credits from season 1 continued until Runner, and then changed bringing Jason and Paul into the credits. So, if they had followed the same like. Torri would have been in the opening credits until Lifeline, and they would have changed with Sateda's sequel ... Reunion.

Cautious Explorer
January 6th, 2008, 03:37 PM
what's wrong with standing up for your people?

That's what you got out of my post? Huh.

Ellis isn't allowed to be a likable character because he falls into the same class as Woolsey. He's supposed to play the jerk so Carter (and previously Weir) can look important by chewing him out in defense of her ideals, her people or her city -- whichever fits the episode.

It's the sheer predictablilty and overuse of the plot devise that makes the scene bad. IMO it would be better to let the leader behave like a leader, as in taking charge of the situation before the meeting devolved into name calling, rather than setting up Ellis as the stooge for Carter to reprimand.

Watcher
January 6th, 2008, 03:38 PM
On Ellis, I like the character. He represents how the military really is imo. The military isn't filled with passive people that always agree with the style of scientists and other non-combatants. In fact, the military and science divisions usually clash on methodologies and Ellis is there to show that.

Before Ellis came on the show Cadwell used to be the "what the heck are you doing now?" kind of guy and before him was Colonel Everett. It seems like the writers passed that attitude on to Ellis and sooner or later they're going to pass that on to a newcomer once Ellis gets comfortable with the Atlantis group. You need people like that to make the show more believable.

Oh, let's not forget that Ellis gave credit to Rodney at the end of the episode. This shows that he can and will give credit when credit is due.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 03:44 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Carter is (was) also recurring. :p

Nope, she was a regular. She just wasn't the leader of Atlantis, yet. ;)


But I think she meant it like when Rainbow got replaced with Jason in season 2. That didn't happen until the 4th episode. The opening credits from season 1 continued until Runner, and then changed bringing Jason and Paul into the credits. So, if they had followed the same like. Torri would have been in the opening credits until Lifeline, and they would have changed with Sateda's sequel ... Reunion.


I had a logical explanation for that, but I'll only go into it if people want me to.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Nope, she was a regular. She just wasn't the leader of Atlantis, yet. ;)

On the whole, not just in those two episodes. That's how her part on SGA started, recurring, which turned into regular rather quickly.

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 03:49 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Carter is (was) also recurring. :p

Carter was a guest character in s1-3, she's a regular now


But I think she meant it like when Rainbow got replaced with Jason in season 2. That didn't happen until the 4th episode. The opening credits from season 1 continued until Runner, and then changed bringing Jason and Paul into the credits. So, if they had followed the same like. Torri would have been in the opening credits until Lifeline, and they would have changed with Sateda's sequel ... Reunion.

oh ok I guess I misread the post


That's what you got out of my post? Huh.

sry :o


Ellis isn't allowed to be a likable character because he falls into the same class as Woolsey. He's supposed to play the jerk so Carter (and previously Weir) can look important by chewing him out in defense of her ideals, her people or her city -- whichever fits the episode.

agreed


It's the sheer predictablilty and overuse of the plot devise that makes the scene bad.

I didn't find it predictable. I knew it would happen but only because of certain spoilers


IMO it would be better to let the leader behave like a leader, as in taking charge of the situation before the meeting devolved into name calling, rather than setting up Ellis as the stooge for Carter to reprimand.

that's another way to approach the scene and I would've liked it too but it worked out just fine imo

Ltcolshepjumper
January 6th, 2008, 03:50 PM
That's what you got out of my post? Huh.

Ellis isn't allowed to be a likable character because he falls into the same class as Woolsey. He's supposed to play the jerk so Carter (and previously Weir) can look important by chewing him out in defense of her ideals, her people or her city -- whichever fits the episode.

It's the sheer predictablilty and overuse of the plot devise that makes the scene bad. IMO it would be better to let the leader behave like a leader, as in taking charge of the situation before the meeting devolved into name calling, rather than setting up Ellis as the stooge for Carter to reprimand.

Well, really, if Mckay did have nothing to show, which, judging from the conversation, he didn't, then he should have said so. After all, he was briefing two experienced military colonels who wanted to get the job done. And I think Carter should have initiated the briefing with what they knew.

Cautious Explorer
January 6th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Well, really, if Mckay did have nothing to show, which, judging from the conversation, he didn't, then he should have said so. After all, he was briefing two experienced military colonels who wanted to get the job done. And I think Carter should have initiated the briefing with what they knew.

Exactly. McKay had nothing to show. Carter should have been aware of that. She should have called a halt to McKay's rambling rather than make Caldwell, Sheppard and Ellis sit there listening for no reason. She made no effort to cut McKay off until after Ellis lost all patience with McKay. Carter handled the whole thing badly IMO.

Uber
January 6th, 2008, 03:58 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Carter is (was) also recurring. :pYou're mistaken. She was brought in as a series regular. Some fans believed she was coming in as a recurring character because TPTB said her character would be supporting the team but that's it.

How long a character is in an episode or their role in that episode doesn't negate from their contractual status.

Ltcolshepjumper
January 6th, 2008, 04:02 PM
You're mistaken. She was brought in as a series regular. Some fans believed she was coming in as a recurring character because TPTB said her character would be supporting the team but that's it.

How long a character is in an episode or their role in that episode doesn't negate from their contractual status.

Correction- they believed she was recurring because one of tptb said she was coming over as a recurring character.I don't remember which one- it might have been RCC or BradW, some interview

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 04:04 PM
Exactly. McKay had nothing to show. Carter should have been aware of that. She should have called a halt to McKay's rambling rather than make Caldwell, Sheppard and Ellis sit there listening for no reason. She made no effort to cut McKay off until after Ellis lost all patience with McKay. Carter handled the whole thing badly IMO.

well to be fair he did brief them about the recent discovery of the nanite subcode which would lead to the immediate deactivation aof the nanite bonds. but you're right he effectively had no results of anything to show them. also who's to say Carter alredy knew what he'd be talking about? she's the one who suggests moving on to plan B, if she'd already known the outcome of the briefing why didn't she say something earlier?

Cautious Explorer
January 6th, 2008, 04:10 PM
well to be fair he did brief them about the recent discovery of the nanite subcode which would lead to the immediate deactivation aof the nanite bonds. but you're right he effectively had no results of anything to show them. also who's to say Carter alredy knew what he'd be talking about? she's the one who suggests moving on to plan B, if she'd already known the outcome of the briefing why didn't she say something earlier?

Good question.

Shouldn't she know? Isn't that part of her job as McKay's boss? Isn't that why TPTB said it was so wonderful to have Carter in charge, because she could comprehend all the scientific aspects of the job? I find it hard to believe she sits in her office, arranges a meeting and has no concept of what McKay is likely to say. If she really does have no idea, she's more out of touch than I thought.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 04:11 PM
Correction- they believed she was recurring because one of tptb said she was coming over as a recurring character.I don't remember which one- it might have been RCC or BradW, some interview

A lot of people say that, but I have yet to see a shred of proof.

Therefore, I consider it hearsay and untrue until proven otherwise.

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 04:23 PM
Good question.

Shouldn't she know? Isn't that part of her job as McKay's boss? Isn't that why TPTB said it was so wonderful to have Carter in charge, because she could comprehend all the scientific aspects of the job? I find it hard to believe she sits in her office, arranges a meeting and has no concept of what McKay is likely to say. If she really does have no idea, she's more out of touch than I thought.

yes under normal circumstances she should certainly know what he'd be talking about. but we don't know what happened before this scene, maybe there was no time to brief her. also just because she didn't know what he'd say doesn't mean she doesn't understand it because Carter definitely does. she can't concentrate on the scientific stuff anymore, that's just not part of her job (it's Rodney's). remember Carter used to brief Hammond on missions and he most likely didn't know any of that either. I'd understand if she wanted to wait for Ellis and Caldwell instead of hearing the same stuff twice

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 04:28 PM
so? what's the big deal? the opening credits are for regular characters, she's a recurring character in s4 thus doesn't need to be in those credits


Pardon me for having an opinion and questioning. ;) Carter was to be recurring, not Weir just yet.

I found where the "recurring role for carter" started (I think) ... from JM's April 2007 blog entry:

Anonymous #12 writes: “My question is as someone who is concerned about the inclusion of carter..can you please at least assure me that the focus will definately be on shep’s team and not to heavy on sam??”

Answer: Carter will play a support role on Atlantis. The focus will remain on Shep’s team. However, Carter’s science and military background will allow her to play an active role should the need

arise.
Here's the direct link http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2007/04/07/april-7-2007/

Redhooks
January 6th, 2008, 04:31 PM
A lot of people say that, but I have yet to see a shred of proof.

Therefore, I consider it hearsay and untrue until proven otherwise.
I think it had to do more with AT's contract that was picked-up for the one-year option had her as a full-time character. I wonder if she got paid any more money for the SGA season and the two SG-1 movies than if she had been in all 20 episodes of a season 11 of SG-1? Her 14 SGA episodes combined with the two movies (which roughly equals five to six episodes) is about the same as a 20 episode season in my opinion.

Back to BAMSR, I was just reading Martin Gero's answers to questions on Joe Mallozzi's blog and he mention no whole scenes were cut, but some scenes were shortened. I was very underwhelmed by the War Council scene after JM kept praising it on his blog because it seemed too short and rushed to me.

I know David Hewlett said in an interview there was a moment when Sheppard's hot friend (Larrin) comes to Atlantis and he is like "she is hot" and then looks at Carter and gives a look like, but you're hot too. That was probably cut from the beginning of the War Council scene. There were no introductions and it seemed odd to me that it started at the point it did.

Martin Gero also said in the Q&A that he did not think there was enough to make this episode a two-parter, but maybe enough for an episode and a half which they could not do.

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Pardon me for having an opinion and questioning. ;)

you don't need to apologize, nothing wrong with having an opinion and questioning something


Carter was to be recurring, not Weir just yet.

yes at first but then TBTB decided to bring her in as a regular

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 04:41 PM
A lot of people say that, but I have yet to see a shred of proof.

Therefore, I consider it hearsay and untrue until proven otherwise.

You know, there is something like counter-proof... How about you give that a shot then? If you like proof so much.

high
January 6th, 2008, 04:43 PM
This thread is insanely long.

Ellis cross the line with the man hood stuff.

I think I understand why the rep-ship did not raise their shields in time. It goes back to first strike. Atlantis did not detect that rep-sat heading toward them or the rep-city in Progeny. They must have way to prevent Atlantis's senors from detecting them thus needing the core. This does not explain why Atlantis detected rep-ship attaching a Wraith planet.

The Weir thing. That was cool.

I think Fran should be brought back to make Atlantis some more ZPM's.
If Atlantis has a ZPM why was the generator being used? Save power. Was the ZPM in First Strike depleted?
Why didn't Sheppard cloak the jumper when the Traveler's ship arrived?

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 04:50 PM
I asked first. ;)

But seriously, Ltcolshepjumper made the assertion that Carter started out as a recurring character, said so by one of the TPTB. All I want is something to back that up, especially when he had a vague source to draw it from (the interviews).

rarocks24
January 6th, 2008, 04:53 PM
This thread is insanely long.

God forbid lots of people can't come here and talk about the episode. :rolleyes:


Ellis cross the line with the man hood stuff.

Probably. But people call each other out for not being man enough all the time. Mckay could have easily have said "I'm not ready", instead, he tried to create all this techno-gibberish to hide his and the Wraith's problems.


I think I understand why the rep-ship did not raise their shields in time. It goes back to first strike. Atlantis did not detect that rep-sat heading toward them or the rep-city in Progeny. They must have way to prevent Atlantis's senors from detecting them thus needing the core. This does not explain why Atlantis detected rep-ship attaching a Wraith planet.

Atlantian sensors are just that good.


The Weir thing. That was cool.

Yes, yes it was.


I think Fran should be brought back to make Atlantis some more ZPM's.

Fran was a Mary-Sue + Ex Deus Machina. Ergo, no more Fran.


If Atlantis has a ZPM why was the generator being used? Save power. Was the ZPM in First Strike depleted?

The ZPM in First Strike is very close to depletion, and probably already has depleted during the landing of Atlantis or when it returned to hyperspace. The other ZPM, the one we stole from the Asurans, is probably about half way charged at this point. ZPM preservation mostly.


Why didn't Sheppard cloak the jumper when the Traveler's ship arrived?

It happened too fast. Besides, the writers had to introduce the travelers one way or another, so this was a sacrifice they were willing to make.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 04:57 PM
I asked first. ;)

Scared you might find something you might not like. :p

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 04:57 PM
You know, there is something like counter-proof... How about you give that a shot then? If you like proof so much.


I asked first. ;)

But seriously, Ltcolshepjumper made the assertion that Carter started out as a recurring character, said so by one of the TPTB. All I want is something to back that up, especially when he had a vague source to draw it from (the interviews).

IDK if this helps, it's from a recent interview with JM

spoilered for size

Q. The other person incapacitated at the end of the season is Weir. Were you paving the road for Samantha Carter to come in?

A. To be perfectly hones, we considered having Carter as a crossover character. The previous year, season ten of SG1 and season 3 of SGA, we were thinking of making her the commander of the Apollo. We would have adventures where she was shuggling the crew back and forth. She would be aking her appearance on SGA and other times she would be with SG1 because the Apollo would be in the Milky Way. For contractual and scheduling reasoins we weren't able to do it. But when the discussions about Torri came up, we weren't even considering Amanda. At the end of the season, we came to a decision that Weir would be heading off in a different direction, away from Atlantis. Once we had made that decision, we had to question who was going to come in to fill those shoes. There were four possible candidates we talked about and one of them was Carter. Ultimately she was the one we chose to go with.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 04:59 PM
Ok, you know what? Nevermind the proof. I just tried to listen to Brad Wright's interview on the MGM site, but for some reason I can't hear what he's saying. The sound's down.

Here's the link to the first part: http://stargate.mgm.com/video.php?id=35

Such a strange error.

Nice find JO! Unfortunately, the recurring part seems to have been considered before the whole Weir/Carter mess, so it doesn't quite count, as we are only talking about what happened during the mess.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Does it help in the determination of 'recurring' or 'regular'? A bit maybe... not much.

ToasterOnFire
January 6th, 2008, 05:01 PM
It's kind of sad. If they'd just write a scene or two with Carter actually doing her job -- consulting with McKay, taking charge of the meeting -- there wouldn't be any need for the grandstanding (Woolsey/Ellis) to "prove" that Carter is in command.
THANK YOU! If either Carter or Shep could have steered McKay back on course there would have been no need for Ellis's outburst. But instead, as with Caldwell, as with Woolsey, it's the outsider that has to call the crap for what it is and gets the TPTB "Big Meanie" treatment for it. Not to mention it makes Carter look bad as a leader. Sure she can chew out Ellis for his unprofessionalism, but she can't deny that he's ultimately right. Rodney wasted everyone's time, it was her responsibility to call her subordinate on it, and she failed to do so.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 05:12 PM
Well slap me silly and send me to Atlantis, it WASN'T Chris Heyerdahl playing the CG Wraith in this episode after all:


Fishbaum writes: “Will we ever see Rodney’s reaction to Teyla’s announcement of her pregnancy? (I imagine John practically RAN to the labs to tell him!) I have been loving Chris H’s wraith “Todd” — any chance we’ll see Chris in some other role this season? What’s the most unusual thing you’ve ever eaten, and would you have it again if you had the chance?

Martin: 1. Sadly, no. McKay finds out off camera. 2. Chris H is amazing, but I am very glad to see that many of you didn’t notice the little trick we pulled this episode. See, Chris is so amazing that he works all the time, and sometimes he’s too busy to do our show. Like, for instance in BAMSR. That wasn’t Chris in the ep playing Todd. That was a young actor named Brendan Penny. He wore the make up and acted with the cast and then Chris re-voiced the part in post. Kinda like we did with Michael in Allies, but much more effectively. But back to your question: will we see Chris H in another role this season: quite possibly. 3. The most unusual thing I’ve ever eaten…so many choices…we’ll go with the most recent: pigs ears. Not my fav. Second place: gazelle and alligator in Africa.”


Wow...I didn't notice any difference at all. Congrats to those who did!

For MUCH MUCH more info on the behind the scenes of BAMSR, take a look at today's entry on Joe Mallozzi's blog, where Martin Gero has answered a slew of questions:

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/january-6-2008-guest-starring-martin-gero/

Pegasus_SGA
January 6th, 2008, 05:17 PM
Well slap me silly and send me to Atlantis, it WASN'T Chris Heyerdahl playing the CG Wraith in this episode after all:



Wow...I didn't notice any difference at all. Congrats to those who did!

For MUCH MUCH more info on the behind the scenes of BAMSR, take a look at today's entry on Joe Mallozzi's blog, where Martin Gero has answered a slew of questions:

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/january-6-2008-guest-starring-martin-gero/
I noticed. :D What can I say, my spideysense was tingling. :P And now it's saying go to bed. :lol:

Drone
January 6th, 2008, 05:47 PM
Repli Weir Lives!

And her rebel-cators!

Mekarri
January 6th, 2008, 06:06 PM
THis is hardly the place to begin a pro choice or pro life discussion I do agree she should be able to choose what to do with her life and child however in this case you are gravely mistaken.



Wrong. Her condition puts herself and child in danger not to mention the rest of the team if they have to pay more attention to her rather than the mission. Like it or not Teyla is part of their staff now and in the military she would have been pulled off active duty right away. This is Shepards call to make.

Again wrong. She is under his command hence hi responsibilty. I do see your point and if this was a typical issue about womens rights I'b be on the sidelines marching along side you. But in this case Shep is responsible for the lives of veryone on his team which now includes an unborn child.

I realize that now I know you meant no offense.
When he took her off active duty he made it a pro life issue. The only reason he did it was for the safety of her unborn child. I think we will just have to agree to disagree respectfully. I will always believe she has the right and responsibility to make that decision for herself. The only thing that could change my mind on this point would be if she was in some way putting the team at risk. My body, my baby, my decision. Why should the team have to pay more attention to her? And if they do then that has to do with their values and beliefs system. She comes from a totally different world. Probably with a completely different out look on things(considering they were dealing with the wraith before superman Sheppard came alone). Why should she try to understand their way of thinking and they don't try to understand the way the people from her galaxy see things. It is not Shep world. And his love ones are not in the line of fire. So Teyla has a right to do what she thinks is right for her. It doesn't matter that shep think that her unborn child is his responsibility because it is not. So I would always show more respect and tolerance to the indigenous people of that galaxy. Just because they luck up and found Atlantis does not make them better but they seem to act as if it does. Now that I think about it would have been nice if that could have happen with the Indians. I am please that you know I was not trying to disrespect you on the military thing.

Enzo Aquarius
January 6th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Well slap me silly and send me to Atlantis, it WASN'T Chris Heyerdahl playing the CG Wraith in this episode after all:



Wow...I didn't notice any difference at all. Congrats to those who did!

For MUCH MUCH more info on the behind the scenes of BAMSR, take a look at today's entry on Joe Mallozzi's blog, where Martin Gero has answered a slew of questions:

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/january-6-2008-guest-starring-martin-gero/

Wow, I didn't even notice that. They did an AMAZING job with the voiceover and make-up!

s09119
January 6th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Atlantian sensors are just that good.


Considering Asuran sensors are Atlantean sensors... they should've been able to detect the allied fleet.

Ltcolshepjumper
January 6th, 2008, 06:13 PM
I asked first. ;)

But seriously, Ltcolshepjumper made the assertion that Carter started out as a recurring character, said so by one of the TPTB. All I want is something to back that up, especially when he had a vague source to draw it from (the interviews).

No, I wasn't implying that she started out as recurring. I made no implications at all. I merely stated that one of tptb said that she would be recurring. for all I know it could have been an innocent mistake. I will try to find it but I doubt I will.

Teslan
January 6th, 2008, 06:14 PM
This thread is insanely long.

I agree, two days and already it is almost a book. But I thought it was one of the best Atlantis episodes ever, so I can understand why. After almost a month waiting it was very much worth it.

They managed to pack almost eveything good about the show in one episode. Impressive.

Thought Ellis deserved a dressing down, not so much for what he said (although his comments were incredibly degrading seeing that they were addressed to the guy who had to play a major part of the plan), but because Carter was sitting right there when he said it. Let her criticize her people if necessary was my first thought.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 06:22 PM
No, I wasn't implying that she started out as recurring. I made no implications at all. I merely stated that one of tptb said that she would be recurring. for all I know it could have been an innocent mistake. I will try to find it but I doubt I will.

I already tried, came up with nada, nothing, ziltch.

garhkal
January 6th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Keller was walking a fine line, wasn't she? I can she her trying to uphold doctor/patient confidence but Teyla was putting herself in danger every time she went through the gate. If I had been the doctor, I would have said something to Sheppard or Carter. When Keller discovered that Teyla was pregnant, she now had two "patients"...the baby and Teyla. I feel that Keller should have acted in the baby's best interest and tried to protect mother and child from danger.

That is an interesting poiint. I wonder why Keller did not notify shepard and sam.. Since it was her responsibility to ensure that Teyla did notify them..


I wonder why there were no Wraith Cruisers along with the Hive ships? The cruisers always accompanied Hive ships in the first season, but not afterwards as far as I remember. I wonder why? We have seen them occasionally by themselves or in pairs like in Aurora, Condemned, and Travelers. Maybe too many have been destroyed by the Replicators in the war? I sure would have helped in making the Replicator Auroras divide their fire on more ships.

Most likely they are down so many that what they have left is guarding the rest of the fleet..



Seeing this thing again, and ignoring the CGI, paying attention to interaction and chemistry I noticed how laid back and chilled Caldwell was when Ellis was bursting his bubble. Caldwell seems to respect McKay and trusts him and his instinct ;)

Cause he has had not only time to get to know Mccay but has repeatedly seen him in action, from the Siege, to Critical mass, to no mans land, etc..


Gonna hate me for this one then, Hives hyperdrives are much slower than ours so even though they left the meeting place at the same time as our ships shouldn't they of arrived later?

Perhaps we matched our speed with theirs, so we would all arive at once.


When he took her off active duty he made it a pro life issue. The only reason he did it was for the safety of her unborn child. I think we will just have to agree to disagree respectfully. I will always believe she has the right and responsibility to make that decision for herself. The only thing that could change my mind on this point would be if she was in some way putting the team at risk.

BUt she is putting the team at risk cause of her condition.. Lets say they are in a firefight, and she gets injured in the belly. Normally they might be able to carry her out of the fire zone, but due to her condition, they cannot so her condition is placing no only her in harms way but whom ever came to save her..

Also pregnancy can make people do strange things, so where as before she has tossed caution to the wind to assist someone else, maybe now she is more reluctant to do so..


She comes from a totally different world. Probably with a completely different out look on things(considering they were dealing with the wraith before superman Sheppard came alone). Why should she try to understand their way of thinking and they don't try to understand the way the people from her galaxy see things. It is not Shep world.

Since she is working for THEM< yes it is their world/rules she has to follow, not us having to follow hers..

rarocks24
January 6th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Considering Asuran sensors are Atlantean sensors... they should've been able to detect the allied fleet.

I don't know, it's also possible that there was subspace interference and/or the Wraith were employing jamming technology. The Wraith were also moving quite slow during The Siege. It's also possible that repliweir had somehow masked the approach of the fleet.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 07:25 PM
I already tried, came up with nada, nothing, ziltch.

I'm pretty sure the answer lies in the Brad Wright interviews on the MGM site (they were leaked almost a year ago), but for some reason, the sound doesn't work on them.

So close...

Skydiver
January 6th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Part of discussing the episode and keeping this thread from turning into bicker central is to NOT make generalizing comments about parts of the fandom

Such as 'so and so's fans always say....' 'yeah, of course they'd say that, they are a member of.....'

Discuss the topic, not the poster please.

Amalthea
January 6th, 2008, 08:20 PM
All right... finally got to see it. Lots of thoughts, most of which are "yay, I loved it!"

1. I liked seeing a little bit of the old techie Sam again. It made sense that she and McKay would have interactions like that.
2. I don't know why they have to make that one Colonel guy so jerky. He's a good actor, but the character should know better.
3. Interesting moral dilemma with Fran. Worthy of more exploration.
4. Was that a Repli- or a Dupli-Wier? Very, very interesting.
5. Shep is such a caveman. "Girl pregnant- No work. Girl Pretty-Try to kiss."
6. I love :ronan:!
7. I KNEW that was a different actor for the wraith!

Overall, good episode. I enjoyed it muchly.

Oh and I think it would have been easier for Sam to just blow up their sun. :)

Armbrahm62
January 6th, 2008, 10:29 PM
e. I think we will just have to agree to disagree respectfully. . the ultimate cop out line, given by people who know they are wrong but won't admit it! this thing hasn't died yet!!! Plain and simple there isnt a military force on the planet that would allow a woman or a man if he were capable of it, of being pregnant and participating in a front line combat unit, not even the freaking Russians would do that. Isnt going to happen no way no how no if ands or buts. She was wrong in not telling her commanding officer she was pregnant you can argue it all you want but it won't change the reality. Someone's sick and they arent 100- percent they dont go on missions, same with her, she was only pregnant but she was not feelign well to quote her. the ironic thing is, Lutrell was actually pregnant during the filiming of the scenes, her doctor probably advised her to cut back on the physical scenes anyway. though i dont know that for sure. :) HA!

starfox
January 6th, 2008, 10:53 PM
When he took her off active duty he made it a pro life issue. The only reason he did it was for the safety of her unborn child.

Wrong. He did it for the safety of the team. Miscarriage is a big concern in situations where you're constantly getting injured, and miscarrying during a firefight hurts the whole team, not just Teyla. One of his best fighters is now in a situation where a punch to the gut could mean an immediate need to shelve a mission and return to Atlantis, and she didn't tell anyone. I understand why Sheppard would be upset by that. If an enemy discovers she's pregnant then it's an easily exploitable weakness during a torture sitation. Not to mention, we just got a scene about the lack of Wraith queens, and here a pregnant woman with Wraith DNA waltzes into a hive ship. Not knowing how Wraith reproduce, that's something that we may need to be a little worried about. It's not about pro-life v. pro-choice, it's about keeping everyone alive and in one piece.

Also, you implied earlier that agreeing with Sheppard means we think Teyla's stupid. That's untrue. Intelligent people make bad decisions all the time. Teyla here is an intelligent person who made a bad decision.

bossluna
January 7th, 2008, 12:03 AM
Thought Ellis deserved a dressing down, not so much for what he said (although his comments were incredibly degrading seeing that they were addressed to the guy who had to play a major part of the plan), but because Carter was sitting right there when he said it. Let her criticize her people if necessary was my first thought.

exactly...that's what i was thinking as well. Ellis was clearly out of line. it's not his place to reprimand a senior staff member of Carter's team and in front of Carter no less and to hit below the belt with his comments about "being a man." And I got shivers when Carter stepped in front of Ellis and got up close and personal in his face and said, "If you EVER talk like that to someone under my command again, you will not be welcome on this base, Colonel. Is that clear?" And the look....the LOOK on her face! She said it so calmly, so softly, so controlled, which just made her point come across louder and clearer, all the while her eyes were shooting daggers into Ellis that all he could say was "Yes, it is."

TheReturnOfTheLantian
January 7th, 2008, 03:08 AM
I Love the scene where Larrin said "Kill it" and ronan leaped out the way pritty fast i thought that was real funny.

4allseasons
January 7th, 2008, 06:48 AM
Figuratively, Col. Carter sorta has more clout in rank than Brotha Ellis. Size does matter. I think Sam is literally taller than Ellis. Ellis had to look up to Sam to comment to her after she took up for Rodney. Wraith in custody seemed to share sentiment/frustration with Ellis about Rodney. The Wraith In custody acted serious about his threat to feed on Rodney which to me demonstrated a shared growing frustration with Mackay.

Egle01
January 7th, 2008, 07:30 AM
Just finished watching this ep.
Battle scene was awesome. More than that I liked the end.
It was very surprising to see Elizabeth again.
It was good to see Carter back in action. Doing her tech-talk with McKay. :sam:
After "TMC" wasn't thrilled about seeing next ep, this time I am.

SMB_BOOKS
January 7th, 2008, 08:06 AM
I have not been able to read through all the pages of BAMSR discussion - my apologies. I only have dial-up at home and work is too crazy for me to get all caught up.

So, I apologize if my thoughts are a rehash of others' ideas.....

I'll hit what I liked first and what I didn't like second.

The space battle was good, but I liked the character moments most in this episode:
*Teyla & Ronon after the "big announcement"
*Rodney & Zelenka banter.
*John & Rodney at the end.
*The OMG Elizabeth moment at the end - it was GREAT to see Elizabeth looking strong and confident again! I wish we had seen more than 10 seconds of her (considering that was the last of her eps for the season).

I cannot stand Larrin. At all. IMO she's there just to make John look like a bumbling idiot. I don't like seeing John like that. And, there was no point, at all, of her tying John up again. It did not serve the story in any way, shape or form, IMO. I find the sophomoric dialogue exchange between her and John painful to watch. I'm sure the actress is fine in other roles, I just don't like this character.

I had a few thoughts along the lines of "As base/expedition commander, what in the world is Samantha doing on a ship out on the front lines?" I'm sure that's already been discussed here though, sorry for missing out on everyone's point of view on that one. It just didn't make sense to me. I'm not saying Sam has to stay on Atlantis all the time, hell I didn't like it when they did that to Elizabeth, BUT it seemed to me they had plenty of education and experience and top leadership out in the field already. This didn't bother me as much as Larrin did though. ;)

Also, I know Sam's interchange with Ellis was supposed to be a "dressing down". I was not overwhelmed with Sam's getting in Ellis' face. Not sure what I was expecting, but I didn't feel too threatened with her delivery of the message and thought Ellis backed down pretty damn quick, given the kind of character he is. Again, a passing thought on my part, not something I dwelled on.

And, my little OT wanderings for this post......
I am THRILLED at the news that Weir's storyline will be continued in Season 5. This has brought me more hope for SGA than anything I've seen this year. I hope we continue to hear good news about Torri's return to SGA as production for Season 5 gets underway.

Wilson3Girl
January 7th, 2008, 10:06 AM
I Love the scene where Larrin said "Kill it" and ronon leaped out the way pretty fast i thought that was real funny.

Yes! I cracked up at that too! While Shep was waving his arms and shouting, "No! No! No!" Ronon leapt to the other side of the jumper to get out of the line of fire. Smart guy! Funny scene!

Wilson3Girl

Lythisrose
January 7th, 2008, 10:27 AM
This is in response to those who think Carter should have cut Rodney off before Ellis became insulting. I think it is a possibility that Carter was the only one in the room who actually understood the complexities of what McKay was talking about. So his ongoing explanations of the process and progress he was making were interesting and meaningful to her, as a fellow scientist. So, to her, it wasn't so much rambling, but real, meaningful exposition. To the others in the room, not so much. They were just waiting to get to the point. ;)
I think I could compare it to a group of neurosurgeons discussing your CT scan in front of you and talking about the complexities of the brain tumor in your head. While they were admiring it's struture and intrusiveness into the various portions of your brain, describing the arteries, nerves and other parts of the anatomy impacted by name and in great detail, all you would want to know is can you get it out and will there be lasting damage? :S

Arlessiar
January 7th, 2008, 10:32 AM
It's weird, I don't know why I thought that, thought I had read or heard that somewhere, but I had been sure for a long time that Carter would only be a recurring character, and I was very disappointed when it suddenly turned out that she's a regular. Unfortunately I can also not say why I had the impression that she'd only be recurring, but I think that may have happened because TTPTB NEVER really gave a definite answer to what she'd be on the show, only that she'd not take the focus off the original team. And then I think someone also said that she'd not be a regular, but then she became one, and I was very surprised and a bit angry then, because it felt a bit as if TPTB just didn't want to listen to some angry fans' protest and wanted to give them a false sense of security until they'd suddenly be faced with the hard, unchangeable facts.

Anyway, back ontopic:

Cut him off, tell him to get to the point, whatever. Maybe it was a scene set up to make Carter look good to the fans. I'm still not a big fan of Carter, but I have to say that I like they way in which they brought her in. Sure, the whole "defend Rodney" scene in BMSR could just have been a trick to make her look good to the fans, to show the fans that Carter respects the team and doesn't take over the whole show. But the thing is, she won't leave, one has to accept that she's on Atlantis now, and when I have to live with that than rather in the way she's presented now than in any other of my nightmares! If I have to put up with her than I'd rather see a scene like that than a scene in which she's Supercarter who knows everything better than everyone else, so I'm kinda happy about this scene.



fran was insanly hot and very willing to help. i hate mckay more cuz he let her die. MAKE ANOTHER ONE!!!!!! You hate McKay just because he built a machine with a pretty face and then let that machine do what it was supposed to do, namely get destroyed? Okaayy... o_O

Good point. I can't see Carter NOT telling McKay to supply her with regular reports on his progress, and I also can't see McKay lying saying "almost there" either. Well, of course he should have given her reports and she could have been presenting the results (or not-results), but if you show things they should be in this case then there'd not be much need for McKay/Hewlett on Atlantis anymore as he just works in the background then. I guess TPTB wanted a scene in which McKay, a main character, presents his work, as he always did, so I guess this is one of these scenes that are good for the story but probably not 100% realistic. SGA and scifi in general is full of them (and some are easier to accept than others).

I also have to mention that I liked how Shep calmly told Rodney to "move on" with an expression that seemed to say (at least to me) "Let it go, this guy is being an ass....." yomv. :) I'm happy that some people are able to look at Sheppard that way in this scene, as someone who cannot defend openly in front of all these superior officers (even though he didn't have problems to stand up for Teyla or Ronon before in similar situations) but supports Rodney and calms him down. This said, I just cannot look at Sheppard that way, I wish I could but I can't. There have been so many scenes in the past in which he mocks McKay, doesn't take him serious, doesn't really trust him or is very impatient when it comes to Rodney's work ('I want a miracle in the next three seconds') or gets annoyed by him and says so openly in front of others or behind Rodney's back. Sure, Rodney can be quite annoying or difficult sometimes, and in these moments it's good that John reigns him in, but John overdoes it quite often so that it's hard for me to believe that he's suddenly a good and understanding friend who tries to show Rodney his sympathy by saying "hey buddy don't worry, calm down and forget him, we two know he's an ass and you're a genius.". I cannot help it, to me John also seemed to be pretty annoyed by Rodneys ramblings. And I'm sad about that. Especially since in the end they both make joke and laugh about Ellis, which makes me wonder if he's sincere and really a good friend or a rather hypocritical guy with double standards .


I know David Hewlett said in an interview there was a moment when Sheppard's hot friend (Larrin) comes to Atlantis and he is like "she is hot" and then looks at Carter and gives a look like, but you're hot too. That was probably cut from the beginning of the War Council scene. Yeah, I read that too and that part of the scene was definitely missing. But fortunately I didn't miss it, if you know what I mean, as I don't need to hear such a comment from McKay and I'd be glad if he was over Sam already (and over that stupid Katie, too, but that's another topic for another thread...).


Also pregnancy can make people do strange things, so where as before she has tossed caution to the wind to assist someone else, maybe now she is more reluctant to do so.. This also works the other way round, maybe Sheppard would suddenly not dare to give her a possibly dangerous but necessary order, or he and the others would also take on unnecessary risks to save and protect her. That's also one of the reasons why women in the military have always been an issue - because it was feared that the men would try to save the women even in hopeless situations just because it's their instinct and part of their genetic make-up and our evolution to protect those who are weaker - and heck, a pregnant woman, most men would feel the need to protect her, no matter the risk, and this is something you just cannot have in combat situations.

Bye, A.

starfox
January 7th, 2008, 12:08 PM
...heck, a pregnant woman, most men would feel the need to protect her, no matter the risk, and this is something you just cannot have in combat situations.

Bye, A.

Not just men, either. If it's a situation where it's either me or a pregnant woman getting shot, or me or a pregnant woman getting captured, I'd take the bullet or let myself be carted off. Without the added strain of pregnancy, I'd heal faster than she would and be able to withstand bad conditions longer with fewer adverse effects. Chivalry definitely plays into it on one level, but on another it's just an issue of who stands the best chance of getting out of a particular situation in one piece.

s09119
January 7th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Just out of curiosity, anyone have good screencaps of the last scenes (Weir's ship floating in Asuras' ruins and the scene on the Aurora-class' bridge)?

Jumper_One
January 7th, 2008, 02:20 PM
Just out of curiosity, anyone have good screencaps of the last scenes (Weir's ship floating in Asuras' ruins and the scene on the Aurora-class' bridge)?

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692296.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692352.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696504.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692415.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696549.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696575.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692456.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692490.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696871.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692521.png

justhere1971
January 7th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Anyone have any high res/high def caps? Pretty please?

Integrabyte
January 7th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Anyone have to high res/high def caps? Pretty please?

Ditto :P. We need new sigs :D. Especially with FRAN :D

Arlessiar
January 7th, 2008, 02:59 PM
I'm a little bit sad, as I said before I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get to see Rodney's reaction to the pregnancy news, and that it will be very likely that he'll learn about that off-screen. Well, Martin Gero confirmed that when he answered to fans's questions about BAMSR:


Fishbaum writes: “Will we ever see Rodney’s reaction to Teyla’s announcement of her pregnancy? (I imagine John practically RAN to the labs to tell him!)

Martin: 1. Sadly, no. McKay finds out off camera.

Seriously, I would have loved to see McKay's reaction and what he thinks about the whole thing, especially since we know that he likes and respects Teyla, that he's not really a big fan of small children, and that he had problems with his brilliant sister who chose to have a family and not to become a brilliant scientist.

Bye, A.

Klenotka
January 7th, 2008, 03:11 PM
Seriously, I would have loved to see McKay's reaction and what he thinks about the whole thing, especially since we know that he likes and respects Teyla, that he's not really a big fan of small children, and that he had problems with his brilliant sister who chose to have a family and not to become a brilliant scientist.

Bye, A.

I would love to see the reaction, too. But SG fans have to think a lot. We usually have to think that something happened off-screen, because they don´t give us an answer.
But if I remember correctly, Mallozzi said in his blog (if it hasn´t changed since that time), that Rodney and Teyla should have some "cute" scene together in one of those episodes. I am not sure if it was BAMSR or Spoils of War but I think he said Spoils of War. I think the scene might be about this.
I hope. I don´t like how they usually separate Rodney from team issues. Daniel, even a scientist, was always part of the team. They try to do it with Rodney this year, too, but I am still missing something there. While Sheppard/Ronon/Teyla go somewhere as a team, McKay stays behind. They had a reason for that in the last episode but it has often happened before, too.

s09119
January 7th, 2008, 03:14 PM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692296.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692352.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696504.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692415.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696549.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696575.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692456.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692490.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2696871.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/SGA/vlcsnap-2692521.png

Green-for-you! Not quite hi-res, but they'll definitely do for now!

PG15
January 7th, 2008, 03:20 PM
I would love to see the reaction, too. But SG fans have to think a lot. We usually have to think that something happened off-screen, because they don´t give us an answer.
But if I remember correctly, Mallozzi said in his blog (if it hasn´t changed since that time), that Rodney and Teyla should have some "cute" scene together in one of those episodes. I am not sure if it was BAMSR or Spoils of War but I think he said Spoils of War. I think the scene might be about this.
I hope. I don´t like how they usually separate Rodney from team issues. Daniel, even a scientist, was always part of the team. They try to do it with Rodney this year, too, but I am still missing something there. While Sheppard/Ronon/Teyla go somewhere as a team, McKay stays behind. They had a reason for that in the last episode but it has often happened before, too.

Yeah, he said BAMSR.

Damn you time constraints!!

Klenotka
January 7th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Yeah, he said BAMSR.

Damn you time constraints!!

Um...what? :confused:

PG15
January 7th, 2008, 04:12 PM
JM said that the Teyla/Mckay scene was in BAMSR, wasn't that part of your post?

Mekarri
January 7th, 2008, 05:40 PM
the ultimate cop out line, given by people who know they are wrong but won't admit it! this thing hasn't died yet!!! Plain and simple there isnt a military force on the planet that would allow a woman or a man if he were capable of it, of being pregnant and participating in a front line combat unit, not even the freaking Russians would do that. Isnt going to happen no way no how no if ands or buts. She was wrong in not telling her commanding officer she was pregnant you can argue it all you want but it won't change the reality. Someone's sick and they arent 100- percent they dont go on missions, same with her, she was only pregnant but she was not feelign well to quote her. the ironic thing is, Lutrell was actually pregnant during the filiming of the scenes, her doctor probably advised her to cut back on the physical scenes anyway. though i dont know that for sure. :) HA!
There is nothing you can do or say to change my point of view and there is nothing I could say that would make starfox see my point of view. So, no I don't think I am wrong I think you are. I thought the mature thing to say was to agree to disagree. There is no need to take it personally. My beliefs are my own.

prion
January 7th, 2008, 06:05 PM
I'm a little bit sad, as I said before I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get to see Rodney's reaction to the pregnancy news, and that it will be very likely that he'll learn about that off-screen. Well, Martin Gero confirmed that when he answered to fans's questions about BAMSR:



Seriously, I would have loved to see McKay's reaction and what he thinks about the whole thing, especially since we know that he likes and respects Teyla, that he's not really a big fan of small children, and that he had problems with his brilliant sister who chose to have a family and not to become a brilliant scientist.

Bye, A.

This reminds me so much of when Daniel de-ascended in SG1 (the first time), and any problems he might have had were dealt with in between episodes. It would have been very cool to have seen McKay's reaction; they could have clipped one of the space battle scenes by a minute (and think of the money they'd have saved) ;)

prion
January 7th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Anyone have any high res/high def caps? Pretty please?

haven't spotted too many, but the LJ community is usually a good place to keep an eye out

http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/810261.html has some shots, some very humorous shots. Actors must hate the fact that fans can cap any weird expression ;)

this LJ - http://allisnow.livejournal.com/998209.html - me thinks is a Sheyla site :) due to the caps there from the "I'm pregnant" scene

justhere1971
January 7th, 2008, 06:23 PM
haven't spotted too many, but the LJ community is usually a good place to keep an eye out

http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/810261.html has some shots, some very humorous shots. Actors must hate the fact that fans can cap any weird expression ;)

this LJ - http://allisnow.livejournal.com/998209.html - me thinks is a Sheyla site :) due to the caps there from the "I'm pregnant" scene

Thank you Prion! You ROCK!

prion
January 7th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Thank you Prion! You ROCK!

you're welcome. bookmark www.stargatecaps.com. they're capping the show; they're a few episodes behind but you can find a LOT of pictures there :)

Killdeer
January 7th, 2008, 06:46 PM
Yeah, he said BAMSR.

Damn you time constraints!!

Seriously, that scene was cut? The one where Rodney brings Teyla a baby gift? I was hoping maybe it was just in another episode. That was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to. :(

Why couldn't they have cut anything else? We get almost no Teyla and Rodney interaction as it is, and Rodney's becoming more and more isolated from his team. That scene would have helped connect him more to someone besides Shep.

*majorly disappointed if true*

:( :( :( :( :(

Mekarri
January 7th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Wrong. He did it for the safety of the team. Miscarriage is a big concern in situations where you're constantly getting injured, and miscarrying during a firefight hurts the whole team, not just Teyla. One of his best fighters is now in a situation where a punch to the gut could mean an immediate need to shelve a mission and return to Atlantis, and she didn't tell anyone. I understand why Sheppard would be upset by that. If an enemy discovers she's pregnant then it's an easily exploitable weakness during a torture sitation. Not to mention, we just got a scene about the lack of Wraith queens, and here a pregnant woman with Wraith DNA waltzes into a hive ship. Not knowing how Wraith reproduce, that's something that we may need to be a little worried about. It's not about pro-life v. pro-choice, it's about keeping everyone alive and in one piece.

Also, you implied earlier that agreeing with Sheppard means we think Teyla's stupid. That's untrue. Intelligent people make bad decisions all the time. Teyla here is an intelligent person who made a bad decision.
Having a baby in Pegasus galaxy is a bad decision, so you say. That is your opinion. But regardless it is her decision. I so wish everyone get over the unborn child, miscarriage factor. I think Teyla have weighed the risks. It isn't any different than if a team member sprang his or her ankles or got shot depending on the situation anyone can become a liability. Take McKay for example he is useless in defending himself but no one is saying he shouldn't go on dangerous mission. He is a liability when it come to self defense. Hell, he can barely fire a gun. He is a liability when it comes to stealth mode because he talks when he should be quiet and he is always whining, which is reason alone to want to shoot him. Oh, but I forgot the most important thing he is not pregnant. If you want to use the "what if " reason for Teyla being sent away like a child without even a discussion go ahead but remember, "what ifs" can apply to anyone and everyone because "what ifs "goes on forever. So in a nutshell what you are really saying is that Teyla need superman john to save her unborn child because we all know that a mere woman can't make complicated decisions all by herself, boohoo, please rescue me, I am just a weak woman that need your protection. I need you to tell me whats best for me and my unborn child (because make no mistake it is all about the safety of the unborn child) because after all it is a miracle we as a people especially the women survive all this time without John and the people from Atlantis. NOT! Again, he really needs to get over himself.

PG15
January 7th, 2008, 07:15 PM
Seriously, that scene was cut? The one where Rodney brings Teyla a baby gift? I was hoping maybe it was just in another episode. That was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to. :(

Let's not jump to conclusions now. All I know is that JM mentioned a good Teyla/McKay scene in this episode and I didn't see one, it doesn't mean it's that one.

It'll be damn shame if that's the one though.

Killdeer
January 7th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Let's not jump to conclusions now. All I know is that JM mentioned a good Teyla/McKay scene in this episode and I didn't see one, it doesn't mean it's that one.

It'll be damn shame if that's the one though.


Well, that's why I said I'd be disappointed if it was true. I really really hope not - I still want to see that scene. :S

However, without going back and rereading all the entries, I remember it being kind of confusing. It seemed like JM kept getting Ronon and Rodney mixed up, and I was never sure whether there was supposed to be a good Teyla/Rodney scene or a good Teyla/Ronon scene in this episode. As it turned out, we had a good Teyla/Ronon scene, so....I will hold onto hope for the Teyla/Rodney scene.

If someone felt like asking about that scene though.... *hint hint* ;)

PG15
January 7th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Well, I already asked 4 questions today...

But alright. ;)

starfox
January 7th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Having a baby in Pegasus galaxy is a bad decision, so you say. That is your opinion. But regardless it is her decision. I so wish everyone get over the unborn child, miscarriage factor. I think Teyla have weighed the risks. It isn't any different than if a team member sprang his or her ankles or got shot depending on the situation anyone can become a liability. Take McKay for example he is useless in defending himself but no one is saying he shouldn't go on dangerous mission. He is a liability when it come to self defense. Hell, he can barely fire a gun. He is a liability when it comes to stealth mode because he talks when he should be quiet and he is always whining, which is reason alone to want to shoot him. Oh, but I forgot the most important thing he is not pregnant. If you want to use the "what if " reason for Teyla being sent away like a child without even a discussion go ahead but remember, "what ifs" can apply to anyone and everyone because "what ifs "goes on forever. So in a nutshell what you are really saying is that Teyla need superman john to save her unborn child because we all know that a mere woman can't make complicated decisions all by herself, boohoo, please rescue me, I am just a weak woman that need your protection. I need you to tell me whats best for me and my unborn child (because make no mistake it is all about the safety of the unborn child) because after all it is a miracle we as a people especially the women survive all this time without John and the people from Atlantis. NOT! Again, he really needs to get over himself.

Oh, get off your pseudo-feminist high horse and try actually reading my posts before you respond to them.

I did not say that having a baby in the Pegasus galaxy was a bad decision. Entering a combat situation while pregnant is a bad decision. Two completely different things.

I did not imply that Teyla needed a man to make a decision for her. It is the duty of Teyla's commanding officer and/or her physician to remove her from full duty when she develops a medical condition that will affect the outcome of missions. Keller screwed up here, too, and I would like to see that addressed in a future episode.

Please explain to me where exactly in that scene John says that he's more worried about the child than the safety his team. And I mean exactly.

Also, both of the commanding officers of the Atlantis base we have seen have been women, and have shown themselves perfectly capable of handling command. Teyla took command when Elizabeth, John, and Rodney were on Earth. And Teyla has proven time and time again that she doesn't need a man to tell her what to do. Your anti-man rants have no place in the context of this show. I don't give a rat's rear end about whatever problems you may have with men in real life. I'm all for raging against the patriarchy, but on a thread related to an episode of a television show, you're going to need to point to a place in the episode where the patriarchy gives you something to rage against.

Of course women can make complicated decisions by themselves. They do so every day. That doesn't mean that women never screw up. Teyla. Screwed. Up. John called her on it.

In short, please stop ranting and start arguing using something that actually resembles logic.

raiyen
January 7th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Having a baby in Pegasus galaxy is a bad decision, so you say. That is your opinion. But regardless it is her decision. I so wish everyone get over the unborn child, miscarriage factor. I think Teyla have weighed the risks. It isn't any different than if a team member sprang his or her ankles or got shot depending on the situation anyone can become a liability. Take McKay for example he is useless in defending himself but no one is saying he shouldn't go on dangerous mission. He is a liability when it come to self defense. Hell, he can barely fire a gun. He is a liability when it comes to stealth mode because he talks when he should be quiet and he is always whining, which is reason alone to want to shoot him. Oh, but I forgot the most important thing he is not pregnant. If you want to use the "what if " reason for Teyla being sent away like a child without even a discussion go ahead but remember, "what ifs" can apply to anyone and everyone because "what ifs "goes on forever. So in a nutshell what you are really saying is that Teyla need superman john to save her unborn child because we all know that a mere woman can't make complicated decisions all by herself, boohoo, please rescue me, I am just a weak woman that need your protection. I need you to tell me whats best for me and my unborn child (because make no mistake it is all about the safety of the unborn child) because after all it is a miracle we as a people especially the women survive all this time without John and the people from Atlantis. NOT! Again, he really needs to get over himself.
I enjoyed reading the comments here but this is getting ridiculous. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. Can we just stop this. I am sick of hearing "I am woman hear me roar". Yes, Teyla is pregnant and can kill herself and her baby if she wants to. Nobody is obligated to be concerned for her safety or her baby. She can even be drinking alcohol and smoking pot and that is nobody's business but her own. Is this what you are saying? Because if it is, stop the "Sheppard needs to get over himself" and other character assasinations. You've commented on your dislike of Sheppard, his role in waking the wraith, his superiority complex, and now it is McKay's turn. Stop it already. This is all the SGC's fault. If they hadn't discovered the chair in Antarctica, then they wouldn't have discovered the address for Atlantis, then Sheppard wouldn't be piloting O'Neill and avoiding the drone, then Weir wouldn't have gotten him to join to expedition. Wait a minute, wasn't it Weir who ordered Sheppard to go with Sumner on that trip to Athos?

This is a TV series. Things happen that may or may not mirror life. A pregnant woman can work in the office up until she give birth (I've done that twice). Should a pregnant woman (let's say a police officer) be on active duty when she is 3 months pregnant? If so, you can be her partner.

Saquist
January 7th, 2008, 08:55 PM
We have no idea. Her dialog made it seem that she was a pro ascension replicator.

Of course that's what she meant about not needing to look over their shoulders anymore. The question is what kind of relation are these replicators going to have with the ancients. We never got confirmation that these replicators were on the side of the ancients.

In an episode where Daniel tells us ."We know something for sure now. They're not going to help us." Seems to suggest that untill a direct threat to the ancients appear that they will not act. This might be that "direct threat"




From the comments I sense that the episode was viewed as good simply because of the fleet battle. I think that is a very shortsighted perspective. I've never desired to have battles just for the sake of special effects and big explosions.

My Perspective.
For me the Best Episode of the Season started last Season with First Strike and continuing and incredible three episode saga which finally brought the city to a new planet. It was the most perilous moment Atlantis had seen since the Jeni stormed the City at the end of Season One.

This episode its self didn't get good untill I realize that nothing was going to stop the plan. No last minute problem was going to cause them to abort and recieve some awful reprisal.

I think that was a good thing because the human form replicator idea has been done and fought. It's time to go somewhere instead of lingering in a clone conflict of SG-1. I was surprised when they actually destroyed them. I was even further surprised by the immediate resurgence of Weir and her objective.

As a sci fi fan, I want to be spellbound and occasionally dazzled by special effects. If I wanted explosions in every scene and fluff grade laser effects I'd watch the 2nd Star War's Trillogy. Stargate is quality Sci Fi because it's plot, everything Star Wars was not, Everthing Star Trek Enterprise forgot.

Uber
January 7th, 2008, 09:21 PM
This is in response to those who think Carter should have cut Rodney off before Ellis became insulting. I think it is a possibility that Carter was the only one in the room who actually understood the complexities of what McKay was talking about. So his ongoing explanations of the process and progress he was making were interesting and meaningful to her, as a fellow scientist. So, to her, it wasn't so much rambling, but real, meaningful exposition. To the others in the room, not so much. They were just waiting to get to the point. ;)
I think I could compare it to a group of neurosurgeons discussing your CT scan in front of you and talking about the complexities of the brain tumor in your head. While they were admiring it's struture and intrusiveness into the various portions of your brain, describing the arteries, nerves and other parts of the anatomy impacted by name and in great detail, all you would want to know is can you get it out and will there be lasting damage? :SCarter most certainly understood him...and she also understood the position he was in. She's been there...trying to explain the complexities of a situation when the brass would steamroll her to make her get to the point.

I don't think she knew the results beforehand though. My sense was that it was a briefing for her too...and I got that sense from the fact that she asked him if he had anything or not.

Uber
January 7th, 2008, 09:34 PM
Interesting debate about the Teyla/Shep scene. My thoughts.....

John was spot on. Completely and totally. Teyla withheld vital information from him for two months and that is completely out of bounds. She is under Shep's command...she is his responsibility...and like it or not, her being pregnant makes her a potential liability in a combat scenario, not only for herself or her child, but also for the team and for anyone else.

The truth is she didn't tell John because in part at least, she didn't trust him with the information. She knew he'd take her off of active duty status and she didn't want that to happen.

His response was right...but the tone of his response revealed how hurt he was that she didn't tell him...not only because it was something he needed to know for the sake of the team and their missions, but also because they're friends and holding out like this was for him a betrayal of trust, both professionally and personally.

That's my take anyway. :)

Killdeer
January 7th, 2008, 09:42 PM
^^ I agree with Über on the Shep/Teyla scene completely.


But I was also a little confused. Teyla tells Shep that she tried to tell him.....ummmm....when??? 'Cause I really must have missed that scene.

The way I read it....Teyla was completely on the defensive. She was in the wrong, and she knew good and well she was in the wrong. She puts up a token defense, but I think she knows she is guilty, and that's why she didn't get in Shep's face about it.

I'm also thinking Keller deserves a sharp reprimand from someone for keeping it a secret.

jelgate
January 7th, 2008, 10:11 PM
^^?* I agree with Über on the Shep/Teyla scene completely.But I was also a little confused.?* Teyla tells Shep that she tried to tell him.....ummmm....when????* 'Cause I really must have missed that scene.The way I read it....Teyla was completely on the defensive.?* She was in the wrong, and she knew good and well she was in the wrong.?* She puts up a token defense, but I think she knows she is guilty, and that's why she didn't get in Shep's face about it.?* I'm also thinking Keller deserves a sharp reprimand from someone for keeping it a secret.I should first say that I support what Sheppard did. Teyla was endangering herself and her baby, however, I don't believe any of that blame should be put on Keller. I don't?* know about other countries, but US law forbids her to hand out personal information to other people on her patients.?*

Killdeer
January 7th, 2008, 10:36 PM
however, I don't believe any of that blame should be put on Keller. I don't?* know about other countries, but US law forbids her to hand out personal information to other people on her patients.?*

Well, I'm no expert on the military, but I don't think that applies to people on active service on a combat team. Someone else feel free to comment.

If Teyla were a civilian in private life, yes, confidentiality would be an issue. But she's not.

Don't military doctors have a responsibility to relieve personnel of duty who have medical conditions that might interfere with the performance of their duties? I know Keller isn't military like Janet was, but she still reports to the military.

garhkal
January 8th, 2008, 12:12 AM
Not just men, either. If it's a situation where it's either me or a pregnant woman getting shot, or me or a pregnant woman getting captured, I'd take the bullet or let myself be carted off. Without the added strain of pregnancy, I'd heal faster than she would and be able to withstand bad conditions longer with fewer adverse effects. Chivalry definitely plays into it on one level, but on another it's just an issue of who stands the best chance of getting out of a particular situation in one piece.

Very true, and for 'superiors/higher ups' a lot of it also boils down to how america as a whole responds... when a guy is killed/captured, not much is said, but when it is a girl/woman there is a lot more commenting. And heaven forbit she was pregnant.


and that he had problems with his brilliant sister who chose to have a family and not to become a brilliant scientist.

Bye, A.

I wonder if his 'resentment' of his sister will change ho he views Teyla now..?


I should first say that I support what Sheppard did. Teyla was endangering herself and her baby, however, I don't believe any of that blame should be put on Keller. I don't?* know about other countries, but US law forbids her to hand out personal information to other people on her patients.?*

Normally yes. Military though operates on different rules in those regards. I know in civilian life if i get pregnant, my doctor has no right/requirement to tell anyone. In the military he does.

poundpuppy29
January 8th, 2008, 12:26 AM
Let first congratulate Martin Gero he found Sam she was finally in character on Atlantis she hasn't been in previous eps in season 4.

I loved this ep and I am a semi member of the Anti season 4 thread.

My take on Shep and Teyla Shep was a frelling jerk yes she should have told him earlier but that doesn't excuse him for treating her like that he is her CO but he should have had a little more tact with a long term member of his team than that. I have never seen the romance between these 2 characters friendship yes but not romance and I have looked for it. If he has romantic feelings for her then explain his Kirking in the previous episodes. What is he keeping her on the back burner while he sows his wild oats come on he can't have it both ways. If he was really interested in her in that way he would know she was with someone like Ronon did he pays attention. The other reason his reaction bothered me Shep not everything is about you and he has no claim on her no real reason to be jealous. I guess they are not as close friends as I thought. Teyla doesn't know Military Regs I don't think she would know she was doing things as it came she didn't know the reg but she is a strong woman she wanted to remain active I think be vital didn't want to be pampered or passive it is new for her too 1st time mother remember. I agree she should not be in combat but how would she know the regs she is not from earth people

I also know the kirking argument can be used against Sparky too

I saw Ronon and Teyla scene with shipper glasses in my mind Ronon carries a torch for Teyla and really respects her did you notice the looks he was giving Shep during the tirade. Ronon behaved as human and gave her what she needed. He really loves her I think because if you truly love someone you want them to be happy even if it means them being with someone else and he would help her find him so she would be happy. He understands her Shep doesn't I never got the brother vibe from him with her. I am a shipper of them since The Runner. Did you notice the hand holding I did.

This was the first time Sam was Sam. I like Sam she is a brilliant scientist and good soldier and IMHO science has always been her passion what she gets up for so to see her work with Rodney was awesome and done very well she did not steal the spotlight. I did like her talk with Ellis too that guy needs to learn a little respect Sam did it with a quiet strength that I liked. I also noticed the mental eye role from Sam when Larrin was talking to Sheppard about being on her ship she didn't physically do it just the look on her face she was thinking it. Part of my issue with Sam on SGA was she was being written the same as Weir and they are 2 different characters who handle things differently not in a bad way either woman just different. I am not happy about this move still but at least she was in character this ep.

I was happy to see Weir and I think it was the real Weir I think she set up the events of TMC so they would not search for her and try to rescue her anymore and gave them some help. I don't think she is evil I think she wanted them to destroy the evil replicators so she and the rest of the pro Ascension replicators could act in peace.

Loved the Rodney Radek moments Fran was interesting

Great battle scene

Klenotka
January 8th, 2008, 02:18 AM
JM said that the Teyla/Mckay scene was in BAMSR, wasn't that part of your post?

Oh, so, I was confused because didn´t understand the word "constraint" ;)

Yeah, I told so. But I wasn´t sure if Mallozzi spoke about BAMSR or Spoils of War. If they cut off this scene from BAMSR, then it´s bad decision and I am disappointed. :(

francis
January 8th, 2008, 03:30 AM
Any theories as to why it was so easy to destroy Replicator technology? I didn't see any Aurora-class ships even display use of shields, let alone fire retaliatory drones. And as for the drones fired from the surface? They were mentioned, but failed to show in the battle.

How could the coalition hold off the Replicator ships? They were in possession of not only superior numbers but also superior technology. Every coalition vessel, save for the two heavily-upgraded 304s, was technologically or operationally inferior to a Replicator warship in a one-on-one engagement.

Of course, the coalition had the element of surprise, but there's no explained reason for the Replicators to not be on very high defensive alert. Hubris perhaps, but when they were forced to retreat into a defensive formation?

Perhaps the Asgard-equipped 304s acted as force multipliers, quickly disabling hostile ships while the rest of the fleet acted as cannon fodder. With so many ships there to take damage, perhaps their collective shields were able to absorb dispersed, chaotic retaliatory fire. Perhaps Wraith losses were great enough to explain the success. Well, we shall see.

the asguard beam weapons where made to destroy ori warships which are made useing acended knowlege so they would be even more effective against aroura class ships as they are built with unacended knowlege

True!Ancient
January 8th, 2008, 04:33 AM
At the end of Ep 11 wier is in charge of a group of replicators that we dont know the full size of yet...do you think she is in charge becouse its the origional wier and she is part human and most likely to ascend or can teach them how to ascend?

Linzi
January 8th, 2008, 04:47 AM
Well, I'm no expert on the military, but I don't think that applies to people on active service on a combat team. Someone else feel free to comment.

If Teyla were a civilian in private life, yes, confidentiality would be an issue. But she's not.

Don't military doctors have a responsibility to relieve personnel of duty who have medical conditions that might interfere with the performance of their duties? I know Keller isn't military like Janet was, but she still reports to the military.
That's my understanding too. Doctors in the military have a responsibility and duty to report anything to a CO if the health of a subordinate could endanger a mission etc... At least that's what I've read before, and it does make sense, I think. I'm sure we have some US military folk here who must know the regs concerning this. Mitch?

Let first congratulate Martin Gero he found Sam she was finally in character on Atlantis she hasn't been in previous eps in season 4.

I loved this ep and I am a semi member of the Anti season 4 thread.

My take on Shep and Teyla Shep was a frelling jerk yes she should have told him earlier but that doesn't excuse him for treating her like that he is her CO but he should have had a little more tact with a long term member of his team than that. I have never seen the romance between these 2 characters friendship yes but not romance and I have looked for it. If he has romantic feelings for her then explain his Kirking in the previous episodes. What is he keeping her on the back burner while he sows his wild oats come on he can't have it both ways. If he was really interested in her in that way he would know she was with someone like Ronon did he pays attention. The other reason his reaction bothered me Shep not everything is about you and he has no claim on her no real reason to be jealous. I guess they are not as close friends as I thought. Teyla doesn't know Military Regs I don't think she would know she was doing things as it came she didn't know the reg but she is a strong woman she wanted to remain active I think be vital didn't want to be pampered or passive it is new for her too 1st time mother remember. I agree she should not be in combat but how would she know the regs she is not from earth people

I don't agree with you at all here. Sheppard was angry and hurt Teyla hadn't told him and was totally right in chewing her out. If Rodney had had a medical issue which could affect his performance in the field and he didn't inform Sheppard, I'd expect him to act exactly the same way, same for Ronon. It's got nothing to do with Teyla's rights as a mother or anything or the fact she's a woman, though obviously as yet men can't get pregnant! :lol: Of course Teyla knows of military regs. She's been on the team for years, and is a good soldier, and a very intelligent woman. I think she's MADE it her business to understand how the military works.

Being taken off active duty whilst pregnant hasn't got anything to do with being pampered as a first time mother and I really don't understand how you could come to that conclusion. For goodness sakes, Teyla has been shot at and stunned in episodes! Yes, that's a very safe and secure environment to be in and not to be pampered and made passive in, isn't it? It's just plain common sense, as I explained in a previous post, to withdraw pregnant women from the front line and active duty and it's also in US military regs as well. Of course she knows the regs. That's partly why she didn't tell Sheppard, I think. She knew she'd be withdrawn from active duty - she knows Sheppard would want to protect her. She's not stupid. I believe she just wants to remain active and try and help find her people. I also think she was frightened of telling Sheppard she's pregnant. Whether that's because she's carried a torch for him or not, or was worried about his reaction, I have no idea, and I don't care, to be honest. That's up to others who are interested in that sort of thing to debate. I disagree that Sheppard and Teyla aren't close friends though. I think they are. But, sometimes you don't tell close friends some things. And let's be honest, Sheppard isn't exactly easy to talk to about some things, is he? He's not exactly able to express his feelings very well, and pregnancy and relationships are very personal issues. And Shep doesn't do personal very well...

As for Sheppard liking to flirt with women - I take it that's what you mean by 'kirking'? I don't see what that has to do with anything here really. I mean, the guy likes women, and, so? Just because a person likes to flirt, doesn't mean to say they don't have deep feelings for someone, does it? And I say that totally as a NON shipper in any form! And PEG - don't you dare post saying I ship Shep and Todd! :eek: I know what you're like! ;)

As for Shep being a 'frelling jerk'...hmmm, very eloquently put... :lol:





I saw Ronon and Teyla scene with shipper glasses in my mind Ronon carries a torch for Teyla and really respects her did you notice the looks he was giving Shep during the tirade. Ronon behaved as human and gave her what she needed. He really loves her I think because if you truly love someone you want them to be happy even if it means them being with someone else and he would help her find him so she would be happy. He understands her Shep doesn't I never got the brother vibe from him with her. I am a shipper of them since The Runner. Did you notice the hand holding I did.

I did see the hand holding and I thought it was a lovely touch by the writers. Ronon showed what a support he is to Teyla in her time of need. I went 'Awwww!'

However, I saw Ronon as being a brother to Teyla here, and a really good friend. If he'd had hidden romantic feelings for her, I can't see he'd have been so supportive of her and not shocked or even a little put out by her revelation. I think he suspected her pregnancy. I'm sorry, your line about if you truly love someone you support them and want them to be happy with someone else might well be true if you do love someone romantically, but that's not the vibe I got from Ronon at all.

Ronon behaved as a friend to Teyla. He congratulated her because he has no romantic interest in her and cares about her as a friend as far as I can see, and was being supportive, which was great. Nothing in his behaviour told me he's anything other than a lovely and very dear friend to Teyla. The fact he knew and guessed about Kanan says to me that he was happy for Teyla in her personal life, and doesn't have any romantic feeling for her at all. He is just a big puppy though, isn't he? ;)


This was the first time Sam was Sam. I like Sam she is a brilliant scientist and good soldier and IMHO science has always been her passion what she gets up for so to see her work with Rodney was awesome and done very well she did not steal the spotlight. I did like her talk with Ellis too that guy needs to learn a little respect Sam did it with a quiet strength that I liked. I also noticed the mental eye role from Sam when Larrin was talking to Sheppard about being on her ship she didn't physically do it just the look on her face she was thinking it. Part of my issue with Sam on SGA was she was being written the same as Weir and they are 2 different characters who handle things differently not in a bad way either woman just different. I am not happy about this move still but at least she was in character this ep.

Now I agree partly here with you. I too enjoyed seeing Carter being a little more involved in things - I've missed that too. I think the balance was perfect here, because she helped McKay, speculated with him, but then stood back and let him get on with it all, while at the same time we knew she understood what the hell he was talking about! That's the sign of a good leader - understanding, suggestion, experience and then delegation.

I do think you make a valid point about Carter being written a bit like Weir in some respects in season 4. I think she has been written that way on occasion, yes. But that's inevitable, because she's the leader of the expedition and certain duties are similar to Weir's. After all, they're both administrators and there is an overlap there, thus certain actions, behaviours ARE going to be very similar between the two characters. Other aspects are completely different though, I think.



I was happy to see Weir and I think it was the real Weir I think she set up the events of TMC so they would not search for her and try to rescue her anymore and gave them some help. I don't think she is evil I think she wanted them to destroy the evil replicators so she and the rest of the pro Ascension replicators could act in peace.

Loved the Rodney Radek moments Fran was interesting

Great battle scene

I agree here again. The battle scene was really well done!

I'm not sure Weir is 'good'. I'm not sure she's 'evil' either. I also don't know if it's what's left of the original Weir, a duplicate or a replicator taking on her form. I sort of think it's what's left of the original Weir, but I could easily be wrong.

There's one question I want answered though; is she going to be an ally or an enemy? I think an enemy makes more sense on the one had, and is potentially more interesting for the character, and I can't see how being an ally can further her story much. On the other hand, possibly she's going to help in the fight against the wraith and then her and her group also continue to try to ascend? Then again, would Weir make a convincing enemy? She's certainly not as forboding as Oboroth in my opinion. But, would she be interesting as a replicator ally? I mean there's no way this is the 'real as she was' Weir. She can't live without the nanites, so she is part replicator, and who knows what influence they have on her, and indeed, vice versa.

I guess I'll have to tune into season 5 to find out. What a hardship that's going to be! :lol:

Linzi
January 8th, 2008, 04:55 AM
Oh, so, I was confused because didn´t understand the word "constraint" ;)

Yeah, I told so. But I wasn´t sure if Mallozzi spoke about BAMSR or Spoils of War. If they cut off this scene from BAMSR, then it´s bad decision and I am disappointed. :(
Also, weren't a few scenes juggled around? I'm sure JM said that. So maybe a scene between Rodney and Teyla is in a later episode, maybe SOW as you say.

thrawn01
January 8th, 2008, 06:52 AM
Love the episode, Felt as if I was watching star wars: return of the jedi near the end! That battle was full length feature material for sure!

Kudos to all the effects guys and the producers!

To the Fans: Remember to watch the episodes on live TV, Online (Pulse) or download from amazon and keep this series going!

To the producers: scifi.com/pulse needs to carry the latest episodes as soon as they air, If I miss an episode I always check pulse before looking else where, unfortunately the latest episodes are not always available or are difficult to find amongst all the other content.

I really want to support the show! But I'm not always at home to watch the live broadcast!

Pajus
January 8th, 2008, 07:05 AM
Here are my two cents:

1. Zelenka. In the scenes where he had been, I had a severe WTF expression in my face. This wasn't the Zelenka I've watched for more than 3 years. I had the impression his only purpose there was to tell Rodney how awesome he is.

2. Carter chewing Ellis. That scene reminded me of ep. Conversion. Sam could learn a great deal from Elizabeth when it comes to putting annoying USAF Colonels in line

3. The famous space battle. Reminded me of ep. No man's land. In that ep., one barely working Aurora-class battleship had no problems blowing a Wraith hive right out of the sky. Now TPTBs are telling me, that 7 hives, 4 Traveller ships, Larrin's Aurora (not fully operational), the Daedalus and the Apollo had a chance of surviving 30 fully armed and operational Aurora-class battleships supported by ground fire for more than one minute? WTF?

4. Why did Teyla hide her pregnancy for that long? Ever since S1, Teyla was the voice of reason and the most responsible character on the lead team. Putting her child's life on the line like that just doesn't sound like her.

Falcon Horus
January 8th, 2008, 07:09 AM
With all the space-battle talk...

I have a question...

When Sheppard flies the jumper into the Hive-ship and we see it from afar, is that the same shot as when Sheppard flies the jumper towards the hive in The Siege 3?

Integrabyte
January 8th, 2008, 08:26 AM
Here are my two cents:

1. Zelenka. In the scenes where he had been, I had a severe WTF expression in my face. This wasn't the Zelenka I've watched for more than 3 years. I had the impression his only purpose there was to tell Rodney how awesome he is.

2. Carter chewing Ellis. That scene reminded me of ep. Conversion. Sam could learn a great deal from Elizabeth when it comes to putting annoying USAF Colonels in line

3. The famous space battle. Reminded me of ep. No man's land. In that ep., one barely working Aurora-class battleship had no problems blowing a Wraith hive right out of the sky. Now TPTBs are telling me, that 7 hives, 4 Traveller ships, Larrin's Aurora (not fully operational), the Daedalus and the Apollo had a chance of surviving 30 fully armed and operational Aurora-class battleships supported by ground fire for more than one minute? WTF?

4. Why did Teyla hide her pregnancy for that long? Ever since S1, Teyla was the voice of reason and the most responsible character on the lead team. Putting her child's life on the line like that just doesn't sound like her.


We just signed the peace treaty. You cruisin for a bruisin :P. Don't point out stuff like that. Watch the battle over and over to see how amazing the CGI is. When you are fed up with the battle, see it again :P.

Linzi
January 8th, 2008, 08:33 AM
With all the space-battle talk...

I have a question...

When Sheppard flies the jumper into the Hive-ship and we see it from afar, is that the same shot as when Sheppard flies the jumper towards the hive in The Siege 3?
Well, I don't know, but my son said exactly the same thing as you, and he's rarely wrong, so I'd guess you're spot on there! :)

Falcon Horus
January 8th, 2008, 08:36 AM
Well, I don't know, but my son said exactly the same thing as you, and he's rarely wrong, so I'd guess you're spot on there! :)

Well, nice to know. :)

metabog
January 8th, 2008, 08:47 AM
I bet more happened in the time when they were stunned by the wraith... subspace tracking devices are the first thing to come to mind.

jelgate
January 8th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Normally yes.?* Military though operates on different rules in those regards.?* I know in civilian life if i get pregnant, my doctor has no right/requirement to tell anyone.?* In the military he does.It probably adds more drama to the show to have Teyla tell everyone than Keller even if it is military incorrect. Teyla should had something a long time ago. Its not so much that she is putting her life at risk but she is putting the life of her child at risk.
And PEG - don't you dare post saying I ship Shep and Todd! :eek: I know what you're like! ;)She is crazy enough to do that. She probably wants to ship McKay and Sheppard *runs into hiding*
With all the space-battle talk...I have a question...When Sheppard flies the jumper into the Hive-ship and we see it from afar, is that the same shot as when Sheppard flies the jumper towards the hive in The Siege 3?
Well, I don't know, but my son said exactly the same thing as you, and he's rarely wrong, so I'd guess you're spot on there! :)If it was I didn't see it and I'm never wrong, Linzi:;). In seriousness, the only scene that could have been reused from Siege III is entering the Hive. I really like the scene where Sheppard is dodgong Larin's ship

Linzi
January 8th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Teyla should had something a long time ago. Its not so much that she is putting her life at risk but she is putting the life of her child at risk.

I agree. I'm sure she had her reasons though, even if she should have. I think she looked very awkward when telling Sheppard. I thought Rachel, Jason and particularly Joe played this scene very well. They all have great chemistry, and I think this scene illustrates that really well :)



She is crazy enough to do that. She probably wants to ship McKay and Sheppard *runs into hiding*


:lol: I reckon Peg secretly ships Shep with Todd myself! ;) But, yeah, that Peg certainly is crazy! ;)


If it was I didn't see it and I'm never wrong, Linzi:;). In seriousness, the only scene that could have been reused from Siege III is entering the Hive. I really like the scene where Sheppard is dodging Larin's ship

Ah, well if you saw it, I know it's that scene from the Siege III then! :)

I really liked that scene where the PJ dodges Larrin's ship too. It really made me sort of flinch, because I thought he was going to crash into it! *Thinks about the whump possibilities and then runs off to hide!*

Pajus
January 8th, 2008, 09:47 AM
We just signed the peace treaty. You cruisin for a bruisin :P. Don't point out stuff like that. Watch the battle over and over to see how amazing the CGI is. When you are fed up with the battle, see it again :P.

There was a war over that here? It's my first time here, so I don't know

Falcon Horus
January 8th, 2008, 09:56 AM
...the only scene that could have been reused from Siege III is entering the Hive...

That's what we were wondering about.

Integrabyte
January 8th, 2008, 10:13 AM
That's what we were wondering about.

Be patient with Jelgate :P

prion
January 8th, 2008, 10:24 AM
Seriously, that scene was cut? The one where Rodney brings Teyla a baby gift? I was hoping maybe it was just in another episode. That was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to. :(

Why couldn't they have cut anything else? We get almost no Teyla and Rodney interaction as it is, and Rodney's becoming more and more isolated from his team. That scene would have helped connect him more to someone besides Shep.

*majorly disappointed if true*

:( :( :( :( :(

No, it wasn't cut. It wasn't even written, if I'm guessing correctly. From JM's blog

Fishbaum writes: “Will we ever see Rodney’s reaction to Teyla’s announcement of her pregnancy? (I imagine John practically RAN to the labs to tell him!)

Martin: 1. Sadly, no. McKay finds out off camera.

So, good news there. I'd hate to think they'd sacrifice character development to blow up another dumb ship....

jelgate
January 8th, 2008, 11:04 AM
No, it wasn't cut. It wasn't even written, if I'm guessing correctly. From JM's blogFishbaum writes: “Will we ever see Rodney’s reaction to Teyla’s announcement of her pregnancy? (I imagine John practically RAN to the labs to tell him!) Martin: 1. Sadly, no. McKay finds out off camera. So, good news there. I'd hate to think they'd sacrifice character development to blow up another dumb ship....It would have been nice to show McKay's reaction to Teyla's pregnancy, but this episode was full of mind blowing scenes. What do you take out to show the reaction because it would have been more than one ship. They should have put Teyla in a hole instead of Carter (Think Trio)

solarscreen
January 8th, 2008, 11:36 AM
First post, new to the show (less than one year) but caught up thanks to DVDs and Universal HD.

I was quite happy with the episode myself.

Here's my 2 cents, as if it mattered to you guys!

Ellis - He's a battle commander who relies on getting the intel he needs to get the job done, now. He's used to being deployed and has little use for desk jockeys and diplomats. He considers the PG to be a combat zone and he is ready to put his ship into combat. His actions toward Rodney were typical of a battlefield mentality where answers are needed so that the mission can be executed. He does not need explanantions or details on the background science. However, it was not the correct way to handle Rodney, even though he probably deserved it.

Carter - She's a scientist who is also military. Science is first and the military provides her the most opportunites to use her scientific curiosity and abilities to their fullest extent. She is NOT an administrator. Unfortunately, because of her rank she has been placed in a command position requiring a lot of administration. She is trying to get that part down but is easily distracted by the science and when an admin decision is needed she winds up making rookie admin decisions. It happens and is very realistic. She was caught up in Rodney's presentation because she wanted to hear what he was thinking, knowing full well that he probably did not have a completed plan or he would be throwing it in their faces. She listened anyway because she might get a flash of brilliance or provide the feedback that would give Rodney the answer he still lacked. She handled Ellis correctly, disciplining in private and did not need Rodney to see it because although it was not delivered appropriately, Rodney needs a backhand to keep him in reality.

Sheppard's Reaction to Teyla - These people are a well knit team, professionally and personally. Teyla has been off her game ever since she realised she was pregnant. John cares for her very much, more than he lets on but he is not used to intimate relationships and is also the kind of guy who although he is very military wears his feelings on his sleeves. This is why there has always been concerns about his ability to "administrate" the military on Atlantis. His comments specifically about what affects a stunner might have on the unborn child is very telling and he was angry and hurt that this tight team has a member who has been hiding information, afraid to reveal to the team members her condition. Sure, having served in the military for 20 years I can tell you the rules and regs but this was more than about regulations, it was personal and he handled it that way. Like Ellis, not appropriately, but deservedly.

Ronon showed a side we have wondered about and knew was in him though his pain has made him a hard man on the outside. He had a life before the Wraith and had a love with plans for the future and they were taken away. He cares about Teyla like family and showed that he is not permanently damaged mentally from his losses. I think his time on the team at Atlantis has helped him recover somewhat.

ZPMs - they are unique marvels of physics and cannot just be yanked out manually or by transport. You have to shutdown their output process or cause possibly immediate and catestrophic failure.

Replicators - patterning themselves after the ancients and mathematically quick, they also have limitations most computers have versus the ability of the human mind to make seemingly illogical and possibly fatal decisions that still somehow work out. Their numbers of warships presented a low chance of success even with Asgard technology. However, part of their programming is to destroy Wraith so while they concentrated on the Wraith hive ships, the others aimed carefully directed weapons fire aided by Asgard beams to take down their warships. Still, something seemed not quite right and we may find out more about what happened on their end later. The show ending seems to indicate the ability to fill in many blanks.

FRAn -As the Ancients pursued nannite research, the nannites gained the ability to make decisions and changes based on their surroundings within the command protocols and programming provided them. To mimic your creator is not uncommon and probably an interesting turn of events in nannite research for the Ancients. Especially to the head of that research, who probably bears a striking resemblance to FRAn, of course. When McKay and Zalenka were unable to strip out all the command protocols and programming but still get the nannites to form a cohesive object, Rodney said "alright..." and I knew he was going to turn everything back on again. By default, the nannites created a replica of their creator. I think Rodney will do it again becuase she is attractive to him scientifically as well as physically. Besides, Atlantis could use a friendly replicator.

Weir - I know you all want her back, but recall that the latest command protocols and programming changes allowed the replicators to mimic existing real people. The original commands were for destroying the Wraith. Oberoth in his confrontation with Weir found a strong adversary who provided much information and ideas that were strange but useful to him.

I believe the Weir at the end of the episode is Oberoth. He has assumed the appearance of his powerful adversary to his own benefit and to his plans.

As for continuity, there are always little errors in any production with a deadline. But as a whole, I think the episode as rushed and detail filled as it was was fairly correct and the only seeming glaring holes are not holes but future opportunities.

Thanks for letting me play!

Klenotka
January 8th, 2008, 11:44 AM
No, it wasn't cut. It wasn't even written, if I'm guessing correctly. From JM's blog

Fishbaum writes: “Will we ever see Rodney’s reaction to Teyla’s announcement of her pregnancy? (I imagine John practically RAN to the labs to tell him!)

Martin: 1. Sadly, no. McKay finds out off camera.

So, good news there. I'd hate to think they'd sacrifice character development to blow up another dumb ship....

No, not an announcement of pregnancy. I remember reading this in JM´s blog long time ago. There was a question if we will see some nice scenes between Teyla and Rodney in S4. And he answered BAMSR or SOF. I am not sure now. So I think it wouldn´t have to be exactly that she tells him, it might be just scene between them, where he already knows. We know how impossible he is in speaking with women sometimes, and Teyla is pregnant. It might be good scene. I hope he spoke about SOF :)

Ruffles
January 8th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Seriously, that scene was cut? The one where Rodney brings Teyla a baby gift? I was hoping maybe it was just in another episode. That was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to. :(

Why couldn't they have cut anything else? We get almost no Teyla and Rodney interaction as it is, and Rodney's becoming more and more isolated from his team. That scene would have helped connect him more to someone besides Shep.

*majorly disappointed if true*

:( :( :( :( :(

We won't get to see Rodney's reaction when he first finds out she's pregnant, but that doesn't mean we won't get to hear what he thinks/feels about it later on. My opinion: Rodney would just blink, say "Really?", and keep going when he first heard. He wouldn't get angry like John or be supportive like Ronon. He'd be very awkward. But later, after he's had time to digest it, he would have something to say. THAT's what I would like to hear.

ToasterOnFire
January 8th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Well, I'm no expert on the military, but I don't think that applies to people on active service on a combat team. Someone else feel free to comment.

If Teyla were a civilian in private life, yes, confidentiality would be an issue. But she's not.

Don't military doctors have a responsibility to relieve personnel of duty who have medical conditions that might interfere with the performance of their duties? I know Keller isn't military like Janet was, but she still reports to the military.
To throw another wrench into the works, Teyla is not a member of the US military. Same with Ronon. Instead they might be classified as non-US military working with the US or even as civilians. I don't know what the regulations are under those circumstances.

shipper hannah
January 8th, 2008, 12:46 PM
'should never have given it speech' lol brilliant

solarscreen
January 8th, 2008, 01:15 PM
To throw another wrench into the works, Teyla is not a member of the US military. Same with Ronon. Instead they might be classified as non-US military working with the US or even as civilians. I don't know what the regulations are under those circumstances. It's a big wrench too!

They both are:

1. Diplomats for their people
2. Hosted guests of the Earth expedition to Atlantis
3. "Foreign National" military officers

Ultimately, their authority, permissions, and restrictions are determined and agreed upon based on negotiations between themselves and Earth, Carter being the direct representative of Earth. Sheppard has authority from Carter to accept their request to serve on any of his teams. That means he is also responsible for them under several different circumstances and can disqualify their participation in team actions unless they receive special dispensation from Carter. They are however, autonomous governments and can terminate those agreed terms or take action on their own accord, separate from the teams.

I think Teyla will take her removal from Sheppard's team as the excuse she needs to look for her people and with Atlantis help conduct her own operations and permit Earth members to accompany HER if they so wish and she approves.

ori soldier
January 8th, 2008, 01:24 PM
best episode EVER!!!!!

loved carter ellis scene, loved the mckays dry streak talks, loved sheppard and larrin his facial exprecessions in those scenes were hysterical she is quickly becoming one of my favourite recurring characters. The spaceship scenes were on the whole very good sept for in the big battle the blaster fire looked a little too video gameish. The godzilcater was well odd. FERN was also odd but loved the interaction between her and mckay, the wraith fleet was cool although it was obviously ripped from Serenity. cold war comment was great.
The whole teylas pregnant conversatiom was very well done. Sheppard is right though. How sweet of Ronon lol never thought id see the day. and omfg the ending i was not expecting that don't no whether it's good or bad though

My result 10/10

ori soldier
January 8th, 2008, 01:33 PM
oh and i forgot to say i think that some marines should have beamed to the inactive ships i mean we need ancient warships for crying out loud also i would have liked to see ronons relationship with the travellers revealed ie he is last person that crossed larrin:ronan:

Promethius30
January 8th, 2008, 01:34 PM
wow amazing episode the last couple of episode was below avarge for me but did they start the second of the season well? YES they did 12/12 sga back to its best

Falcon Horus
January 8th, 2008, 01:36 PM
the wraith fleet was cool although it was obviously ripped from Serenity.

Except the Serenity-one was ten times better than this one.

Alan
January 8th, 2008, 02:25 PM
That was a fantastic episode!!! Certainly plenty going on and the last scene revealing Weir came as a great surprise and seeing Sam in both Command and Science modes was a joy!!! Great seeing her taking Colonel Ellis to task for speaking to McKay the way he did!!! Command-Sam is awesome!!!

I give this a well deserved 10 out of 10!!! An extremely exciting, fun, and action-packed episode!!!

:D

Mekarri
January 8th, 2008, 04:40 PM
I enjoyed reading the comments here but this is getting ridiculous. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. Can we just stop this. I am sick of hearing "I am woman hear me roar". Yes, Teyla is pregnant and can kill herself and her baby if she wants to. Nobody is obligated to be concerned for her safety or her baby. She can even be drinking alcohol and smoking pot and that is nobody's business but her own. Is this what you are saying? Because if it is, stop the "Sheppard needs to get over himself" and other character assasinations. You've commented on your dislike of Sheppard, his role in waking the wraith, his superiority complex, and now it is McKay's turn. Stop it already. This is all the SGC's fault. If they hadn't discovered the chair in Antarctica, then they wouldn't have discovered the address for Atlantis, then Sheppard wouldn't be piloting O'Neill and avoiding the drone, then Weir wouldn't have gotten him to join to expedition. Wait a minute, wasn't it Weir who ordered Sheppard to go with Sumner on that trip to Athos?

This is a TV series. Things happen that may or may not mirror life. A pregnant woman can work in the office up until she give birth (I've done that twice). Should a pregnant woman (let's say a police officer) be on active duty when she is 3 months pregnant? If so, you can be her partner.
I was thinking the same thing. It was fun for a minute. But enough is enough. Have a nice life.

Sarge300491
January 8th, 2008, 06:39 PM
holy crap this episode was insane i loved the space fight best one yet in atlantis and better then any in stargate. i loved how it showed them all flying past when they jumped into hyper space and the scenes with the f-302's and darts screaming past.

PG15
January 8th, 2008, 07:34 PM
4. Why did Teyla hide her pregnancy for that long? Ever since S1, Teyla was the voice of reason and the most responsible character on the lead team. Putting her child's life on the line like that just doesn't sound like her.

Well, she did say that Athosian women are active throughout their pregnency. Perhaps on this issue her definition of "reponsible" is different from ours.

jelgate
January 8th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Well, she did say that Athosian women are active throughout their pregnency. Perhaps on this issue her definition of "reponsible" is different from ours.

I think the missing Athosians is a factor too. She is determined to find them. If she revealed her pregnancy she wouldn't be able to search for them anymore.

suse
January 8th, 2008, 08:40 PM
I think the missing Athosians is a factor too. She is determined to find them. If she revealed her pregnancy she wouldn't be able to search for them anymore.
I think that is exactly it. She is looking for the baby's daddy. And all the rest of her people. That and it is possible she sees pregnancy differently. I think the stun took care of that though.

There's no telling what the Athosians consider safe for pregnant women. I still doubt it's going into harms way if it can be avoided. But Teyla might not feel it can be avoided for the above stated reasons.

I hope they don't truncate the Athosian story too much. I'd love to see more of them trying to find her people. I have a nasty suspicion about where they are...:eek:

Poor Teyla. What a hard road. :) Gotta love Ronon. What a friend.

That being said, I also see Shep's point of view. Coming off a mission - post-adrenalin rush - was not a good time spring that on him. What a nasty shock. At least Ronon noticed she and might have had an inkling something was up.

suse

garhkal
January 8th, 2008, 10:04 PM
Ever since S1, Teyla was the voice of reason and the most responsible character on the lead team. Putting her child's life on the line like that just doesn't sound like her.


You know, that is a strange character change out..

Elinor
January 9th, 2008, 12:31 AM
Watched this for the second time yesterday but this time on the widescreen. Blinkin' flip! Very good episode.

Something for everyone here. I loved it. Plenty of action, great character moments (I'm really enjoying the Shep and Larrin interaction), fast paced story telling and great sfx.

I have to say I was rather doubtful about Sam joining the show but she's surprised me. I think she's doing a good job....and the ending....waaaah! What is Elizabeth (whichever version she is) up to?!!

:)

Linzi
January 9th, 2008, 01:39 AM
Watched this for the second time yesterday but this time on the widescreen. Blinkin' flip! Very good episode.

Something for everyone here. I loved it. Plenty of action, great character moments (I'm really enjoying the Shep and Larrin interaction), fast paced story telling and great sfx.

I have to say I was rather doubtful about Sam joining the show but she's surprised me. I think she's doing a good job....and the ending....waaaah! What is Elizabeth (whichever version she is) up to?!!

:)
Blinkin' flip? :lol: You have such a way with words, Eli! But I love it! :)

I watched on HD last night on Sky One, and I just want to say, WOW!

The space battle in 40 inches of HD was incredible. I just sat there in awe. I can't believe how the vis effects team pulled off anything so ambitious and complicated with the relatively small budget at hand. Another bit which looked really good was when Sheppard's PJ narrowly avoided hitting Larrin's ship. The detail of the markings on the ship in HD was wonderful and I got a real sense of velocity when watching the PJ skimming over the ship!

I agree about Sam. I've always liked her very much, and been sort of indifferent to Weir, but nonetheless I was a little wary here. I mean it was a really big change, and often the unknown is unsettling and concerning. Yet, I've been delighted with how things have proceeded with her; she's settled into command well and has now not only confirmed she's a good leader, but we're seeing more of the old Sam shining through too. It's a difficult balance, because people do change when they're in a position of authority, and it's inevitable they're not going to be the same as they once were in certain aspects, but I personally am really thrilled by her addition to the show. The writers have really done well here, as has AT. :)

A really fantastic episode, IMO, and a great way to start the back half of season 4.

What is Elizabeth up to? Hmmm, I just don't know! I'm hoping she's a baddie. :)

Naonak
January 9th, 2008, 06:22 AM
The space battle in 40 inches of HD was incredible. I just sat there in awe. I can't believe how the vis effects team pulled off anything so ambitious and complicated with the relatively small budget at hand. Another bit which looked really good was when Sheppard's PJ narrowly avoided hitting Larrin's ship. The detail of the markings on the ship in HD was wonderful and I got a real sense of velocity when watching the PJ skimming over the ship!
http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppardanime45.gif
... I hate you... http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppard44.gif

But, yeah, that battle was ridiculously spectacular (even in normal-vision :p). I was saying something when the fleet came out of hyperspace over Asuras, and just... kind of... slowed... dow... n... It was amazing, and I loved the team's Jumper rendezvousing (is that a word?) with the Wraith fleet, too - another great shot. And then the Jumper dodging the Traveler ship, too.
The effects guys really surpassed themselves. http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppardanime20.gif

It was probably Carter's best episode so far, too. She was much more... well, Carter... than previously, aside from Tabula Rasa. Her dressing down of Ellis was great, and I liked that she was finally talking science, and actually helping to come up with the solution.

The scene with Teyla revealing she's pregnant was really good. Ronon was just great, and John's reaction was understandable and in-character IMO. I saw it as just being because he cares about her, and felt disappointed/betrayed that she couldn't tell them.

Some very funny scenes in there, too: the Colonels greeting each other ("What, seriously?"), McKay and Todd ("Did I ever tell you about...?" "Yes. You have."), and "Take it as a compliment. They were afraid of you."

And I can totally understand TPTB being so secretive about Weir... Interesting to see where this goes.

10/10 - I need another viewing, but it could well be my favourite episode...

Pajus
January 9th, 2008, 09:01 AM
Well, she did say that Athosian women are active throughout their pregnency. Perhaps on this issue her definition of "reponsible" is different from ours.


I think the missing Athosians is a factor too. She is determined to find them. If she revealed her pregnancy she wouldn't be able to search for them anymore.

My definition of "responsible" is "gives her child a chance to be born in good health". There is a very clear line between "active" and "reckless". I have nothing against women being active during pregnancy, but I have something against women being stupid during pregnancy. And don't try to argue with me over that one. I've got first hand experience with it

Integrabyte
January 9th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Blinkin' flip? :lol: You have such a way with words, Eli! But I love it! :)

I watched on HD last night on Sky One, and I just want to say, WOW!

The space battle in 40 inches of HD was incredible. I just sat there in awe. I can't believe how the vis effects team pulled off anything so ambitious and complicated with the relatively small budget at hand. Another bit which looked really good was when Sheppard's PJ narrowly avoided hitting Larrin's ship. The detail of the markings on the ship in HD was wonderful and I got a real sense of velocity when watching the PJ skimming over the ship!

I agree about Sam. I've always liked her very much, and been sort of indifferent to Weir, but nonetheless I was a little wary here. I mean it was a really big change, and often the unknown is unsettling and concerning. Yet, I've been delighted with how things have proceeded with her; she's settled into command well and has now not only confirmed she's a good leader, but we're seeing more of the old Sam shining through too. It's a difficult balance, because people do change when they're in a position of authority, and it's inevitable they're not going to be the same as they once were in certain aspects, but I personally am really thrilled by her addition to the show. The writers have really done well here, as has AT. :)

A really fantastic episode, IMO, and a great way to start the back half of season 4.

What is Elizabeth up to? Hmmm, I just don't know! I'm hoping she's a baddie. :)


I saw it in HD as well but the difference between you and me is that I still have my pants on :P

stgibbs
January 9th, 2008, 09:11 AM
One thing i couldnt get out of my mind when I was trying to sleep was why didnt the team grab a couple of those ZPMs for Atlantis when they knew that they werent going to blow up because of the blackout. Its not like the planet needed any more energy to blow up. LOL. And Weir... I was so happy yet nervous to see her face again. You think the nanites are in control of her like brainwashed, or another clone?

SGFerrit
January 9th, 2008, 09:15 AM
Except the Serenity-one was ten times better than this one.

Falc, can you PM me a link to the Serenity battle? If it is "ten times better" than the BAMSR one then it must be totally amazing, would love to see it.

Integrabyte
January 9th, 2008, 09:16 AM
One thing i couldnt get out of my mind when I was trying to sleep was why didnt the team grab a couple of those ZPMs for Atlantis when they knew that they werent going to blow up because of the blackout. Its not like the planet needed any more energy to blow up. LOL. And Weir... I was so happy yet nervous to see her face again. You think the nanites are in control of her like brainwashed, or another clone?

Because the CGI was more important! Spent so much money on that, no more dinero to shoot a couple ZPM scenes! :P:P:P

prion
January 9th, 2008, 09:41 AM
In regards to Teyla's pregnancy, I'm sure it's rather difficult to work that topic into a conversation. And in the Pegasus Galaxy, or with Athosians, pregnancy doesn't appear to be a deterrent (unless it makes you ill, and she does seem to suffer some queasiness) to doing your job.

Although she reports to Sheppard, she's not US military. In that respect, I guess Dr. Keller didn't have to inform Sheppard of her condition, otherwise, she'd be derelict in her duties.Carter didn't seem to care one way or the other. Sheppard had the strongest reaction, seeing as he felt perhaps betrayed(?) that Teyla hadn't confided in him and kept her condition hidden. He's also acting as a military officer would as in the US military, to my knowledge, you become pregnant, you're off any kind of duty that might jeopardize an unborn baby.

I also wonder if Teyla hesitated in mentioning this news because she realized John might react just as he did, and she doesn't want to be pulled off the frontlines. She wants to find Kanan, the father of her baby.

ToasterOnFire
January 9th, 2008, 09:43 AM
I think the main reason why I prefer the space battles from SWIII, Serenity, even BSG's Exodus over BAMSR was because I felt like I was actually involved in the battle. The camera would twist and turn and plunge the viewer in between ships in SW and Serenity or launch with the vipers in BSG or turn up to watch BSG plummet toward NC mimicking the viewpoint of someone on the planet.

You're also in the thick of the fight with BAMSR, but it feels more like being in a protective bubble watching everyone else instead of mimicking the action of fighting. So my emotional response to that scene was minimized compared to the battle scenes of those other movies/series.

Pharaoh Atem
January 9th, 2008, 10:47 AM
did anyone else bothered by Sheppard telling teyla to just "shake it off"

now i know he didn't know about her pregency but still i felt it was kinda rude

Killdeer
January 9th, 2008, 11:12 AM
did anyone else bothered by Sheppard telling teyla to just "shake it off"

now i know he didn't know about her pregency but still i felt it was kinda rude

Not me. Actually, I thought it was a rather interesting comment - he treated her just like he would anyone else under his command.

Pharaoh Atem
January 9th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Not me. Actually, I thought it was a rather interesting comment - he treated her just like he would anyone else under his command.

yeah i know but he just said it and walked away ....like it was nothing

it just stuck out to me

Killdeer
January 9th, 2008, 11:25 AM
yeah i know but he just said it and walked away ....like it was nothing

it just stuck out to me

I guess everyone sees different things. *shrugs* So how do you think he should have responded?

starfox
January 9th, 2008, 11:36 AM
yeah i know but he just said it and walked away ....like it was nothing

it just stuck out to me

Well, he prefaced it with "we get stunned all the time", which is true. I think the comment was meant to point out that if Teyla hadn't been pregnant then there would be no difference between this and the other times she's been stunned when she did, presumably, shake it off.

Ruffles
January 9th, 2008, 01:05 PM
I think Teyla will take her removal from Sheppard's team as the excuse she needs to look for her people and with Atlantis help conduct her own operations and permit Earth members to accompany HER if they so wish and she approves.

She hasn't been removed from the team just from active duty. There is a difference.



It was probably Carter's best episode so far, too. She was much more... well, Carter... than previously, aside from Tabula Rasa. Her dressing down of Ellis was great, and I liked that she was finally talking science, and actually helping to come up with the solution.

I agree. When she started technobabbling with McKay I saw Sam for the first time. Up til that point (to me) she had been Colonel Carter, head of the expedition. She hasn't really had a chance to be the Sam that we are familiar with. Not to say that I think she hasn't done a good job. I just think she's been written a little differently than Sam of SG-1 - maybe to show her adjusting to her new position or perhaps just as a result of being alone and in command.


did anyone else bothered by Sheppard telling teyla to just "shake it off"

now i know he didn't know about her pregency but still i felt it was kinda rude

I had the complete opposite reaction. I loved the fact that he didn't treat her any differently than he would have treated Ronon. They've been stunned plenty of times - enough to know what it feels like and adjust to it. They were in the middle of preparing for a battle. Shake it off and move on. He treated her like the tough warrior she is.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 01:38 PM
That's my understanding too. Doctors in the military have a responsibility and duty to report anything to a CO if the health of a subordinate could endanger a mission etc... At least that's what I've read before, and it does make sense, I think. I'm sure we have some US military folk here who must know the regs concerning this. Mitch?
I'll do my best to give as accurate a explanation. Doctors in the Military follow the same code of conduct as any other. There are times where the dr keeps the CO's in the loop regarding the health of the team(conversion is a good example.) However I think that in this case Keller had no reason to divulge yet. First she can't break privlage since there was no real threat however it still is a risk.If Keller felt it was neccessary she could tell Shep and Carter but I think this was something up to Teyla not Keller.



I don't agree with you at all here. Sheppard was angry and hurt Teyla hadn't told him and was totally right in chewing her out. If Rodney had had a medical issue which could affect his performance in the field and he didn't inform Sheppard, I'd expect him to act exactly the same way, same for Ronon. It's got nothing to do with Teyla's rights as a mother or anything or the fact she's a woman, though obviously as yet men can't get pregnant! :lol: Of course Teyla knows of military regs. She's been on the team for years, and is a good soldier, and a very intelligent woman. I think she's MADE it her business to understand how the military works.
Agreed. She should have told him. If I was in his shoes I'd be just as pissed.


Being taken off active duty whilst pregnant hasn't got anything to do with being pampered as a first time mother and I really don't understand how you could come to that conclusion. For goodness sakes, Teyla has been shot at and stunned in episodes! Yes, that's a very safe and secure environment to be in and not to be pampered and made passive in, isn't it? It's just plain common sense, as I explained in a previous post, to withdraw pregnant women from the front line and active duty and it's also in US military regs as well. Of course she knows the regs. That's partly why she didn't tell Sheppard, I think. She knew she'd be withdrawn from active duty - she knows Sheppard would want to protect her. She's not stupid. I believe she just wants to remain active and try and help find her people. I also think she was frightened of telling Sheppard she's pregnant. Whether that's because she's carried a torch for him or not, or was worried about his reaction, I have no idea, and I don't care, to be honest. That's up to others who are interested in that sort of thing to debate. I disagree that Sheppard and Teyla aren't close friends though. I think they are. But, sometimes you don't tell close friends some things. And let's be honest, Sheppard isn't exactly easy to talk to about some things, is he? He's not exactly able to express his feelings very well, and pregnancy and relationships are very personal issues. And Shep doesn't do personal very well...
Exactly!


As for Sheppard liking to flirt with women - I take it that's what you mean by 'kirking'? I don't see what that has to do with anything here really. I mean, the guy likes women, and, so? Just because a person likes to flirt, doesn't mean to say they don't have deep feelings for someone, does it? And I say that totally as a NON shipper in any form! And PEG - don't you dare post saying I ship Shep and Todd! :eek: I know what you're like! ;)
Agreed I can also say I'm guilty of doing that myself.;) Shep and Todd?!:yuanime01:


As for Shep being a 'frelling jerk'...hmmm, very eloquently put... :lol:
eloquent yeah but not accurate IMHO.






I did see the hand holding and I thought it was a lovely touch by the writers. Ronon showed what a support he is to Teyla in her time of need. I went 'Awwww!'
I'm a hopless romantic so I did also.


However, I saw Ronon as being a brother to Teyla here, and a really good friend. If he'd had hidden romantic feelings for her, I can't see he'd have been so supportive of her and not shocked or even a little put out by her revelation. I think he suspected her pregnancy. I'm sorry, your line about if you truly love someone you support them and want them to be happy with someone else might well be true if you do love someone romantically, but that's not the vibe I got from Ronon at all.
Agreed though I think there might be some deeper feeling as well.


Ronon behaved as a friend to Teyla. He congratulated her because he has no romantic interest in her and cares about her as a friend as far as I can see, and was being supportive, which was great. Nothing in his behaviour told me he's anything other than a lovely and very dear friend to Teyla. The fact he knew and guessed about Kanan says to me that he was happy for Teyla in her personal life, and doesn't have any romantic feeling for her at all. He is just a big puppy though, isn't he? ;)
It was so sweet seeing the softer side of Ronon and I hope Teyla finds Kanan.



Now I agree partly here with you. I too enjoyed seeing Carter being a little more involved in things - I've missed that too. I think the balance was perfect here, because she helped McKay, speculated with him, but then stood back and let him get on with it all, while at the same time we knew she understood what the hell he was talking about! That's the sign of a good leader - understanding, suggestion, experience and then delegation.
Agreed. I didn't really miss her in the eps she was absent in as she didn't need to be there however she was top notch in this and it was great seeing her really fitting in. Loved her ripping Ellis a new one.


I do think you make a valid point about Carter being written a bit like Weir in some respects in season 4. I think she has been written that way on occasion, yes. But that's inevitable, because she's the leader of the expedition and certain duties are similar to Weir's. After all, they're both administrators and there is an overlap there, thus certain actions, behaviours ARE going to be very similar between the two characters.
Agreed.

Other aspects are completely different though, I think.
Like the fact she is far more believable as leader? *runs and hides*;)



I agree here again. The battle scene was really well done!
Definatly some of their best work and it irks me how some watch these scenes with a magnifying glass looking for the itty bitty inconsistencies.


I'm not sure Weir is 'good'. I'm not sure she's 'evil' either. I also don't know if it's what's left of the original Weir, a duplicate or a replicator taking on her form. I sort of think it's what's left of the original Weir, but I could easily be wrong.
Agreed it could either, and personally would love her as an enemy.


There's one question I want answered though; is she going to be an ally or an enemy? I think an enemy makes more sense on the one had, and is potentially more interesting for the character, and I can't see how being an ally can further her story much.
Right we don't want them making the same mistake that was made in Gemini.


On the other hand, possibly she's going to help in the fight against the wraith and then her and her group also continue to try to ascend? Then again, would Weir make a convincing enemy? She's certainly not as forboding as Oboroth in my opinion. But, would she be interesting as a replicator ally? I mean there's no way this is the 'real as she was' Weir. She can't live without the nanites, so she is part replicator, and who knows what influence they have on her, and indeed, vice versa.
Exactly. The real Weir is dead even if the body survived. Our Weir is gone so could RepliWeir or DupliWeir be a good ally? Don't think so because it's a huge risk.


I guess I'll have to tune into season 5 to find out. What a hardship that's going to be! :lol:
:indeed:

jannagalaxy
January 9th, 2008, 02:04 PM
I just watched the rerun on Sky Two. My stupoid DVD recorder didn't record it...grrr...oh well.

Anyhow, I thought it was a great episode! I'm so so so glad to see Torri in it! Excellent! I knew she wasn't dead!!! I started to scream when I saw her! :)

Loved all the ships working together to destroy the Asurans. The battle scene on the bridge of the wraith hive ship was cool. I thought it was a unique prespective of what happens on a wraith ship when it's fighting. Awesome. :)

I think John got a little kinds tongue tied when he was asking Lyra for her "phone" number....well it seemed like that's how he was asking. :) I thought he looked so cute on that part! :)

Totally awesome....loved how they kept Torri's name of the front and put it at the end! Like with "Jolinar's Memories" :)

Matt G
January 9th, 2008, 04:19 PM
Well what to we have here?

1. "Sam, we're geniuses!" Glad to be reminded of it! :)

2. Elis, OK McKay was being a moron during the meet, but technically Sam was right in saying that he crossed the line.

3. Fran, Rodney, you nutcase!

4. Larrin still came accross as slightly arrogant but liked her better here.

5. The Wraith. INteresting manouvers here.

6. Destruction of Asuras rocked!

7. Teyla reveal, meh, could get interesting if she and Ronan wind up going rogue!

8. Was NOT expecting Weir particularly as I don't think Torri wants to do S5 last I checked!

Seriously good ep, in the mixer for best of the season, where do they go from here?

Jumper_One
January 9th, 2008, 04:28 PM
Well what to we have here?

1. "Sam, we're geniuses!" Glad to be reminded of it! :)

2. Elis, OK McKay was being a moron during the meet, but technically Sam was right in saying that he crossed the line.

3. Fran, Rodney, you nutcase!

indeed :D


4. Larrin still came accross as slightly arrogant but liked her better here.

same here, she was definitely less annoying than in Travelers


5. The Wraith. INteresting manouvers here.

6. Destruction of Asuras rocked!

7. Teyla reveal, meh, could get interesting if she and Ronan wind up going rogue!

8. Was NOT expecting Weir particularly as I don't think Torri wants to do S5 last I checked!

TH said she'd come back for a few eps if there'd be interesting stories for her character


Seriously good ep, in the mixer for best of the season, where do they go from here?

watch SoW and find out for yourself ;)

PG15
January 9th, 2008, 06:49 PM
Well, here's your answer to the Rodney/Teyla scene, Killdeer:


Killdeer writes: “Several of us had been expecting a nice Rodney/Teyla scene in BAMSR. Did that get cut, or is it later down the road?”

Answer: Sorry. When I answered the question about a Rodney-Teyla scene, I was thinking Ronon/Teyla. For a sweet Rodney/Teyla scene, you’ll have to wait for Kindred I.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/january-8-2008-champagne-truffle-buzz-the-princess-bride-and-pooped-pooches/

Killdeer
January 9th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Well, here's your answer to the Rodney/Teyla scene, Killdeer

I know!! Yay!! I can't believe he answered it! That just gives me one more reason to look forward to Kindred. :D

Lythisrose
January 9th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Kind of hate to say this, since i didn't like Larrin in Travelers...
But, now, having rewatched BAMSR several times, I find myself smiling everytime she and Shep are in a scene together. Guess I'm easier than I thought. :o

solarscreen
January 9th, 2008, 08:02 PM
She hasn't been removed from the team just from active duty. There is a difference.
Right you are... I just saw that on review.

Jill_Ion
January 9th, 2008, 09:05 PM
I *loved* this episode! Need to watch it again to post a more indepth analysis, but just wanted to share the love. :)

chrishg
January 9th, 2008, 09:48 PM
Man, I have to say this episode has a nice ending. Almost expected her eyes to glow like a Goa'uld!!

majorsal
January 9th, 2008, 10:10 PM
I agree. When she started technobabbling with McKay I saw Sam for the first time. Up til that point (to me) she had been Colonel Carter, head of the expedition. She hasn't really had a chance to be the Sam that we are familiar with. Not to say that I think she hasn't done a good job. I just think she's been written a little differently than Sam of SG-1 - maybe to show her adjusting to her new position or perhaps just as a result of being alone and in command.


that's one of the reasons i love reading ppl's opinions; i can get a different take on something and ponder it. thanks. ;)




sally :)

Why Carson? Why?
January 10th, 2008, 01:17 AM
Loved EVERYTHING about that ep can't say i didn't like any of it, i loved the bit were there are the hives, auora and the 304's with all the different colour engines that was awesome. Can't wait for spoils of war to see what the hell is with weir on that ship. :mckayanime08:

Linzi
January 10th, 2008, 02:46 AM
I've joined just to get this off my chest:

Weir and her replicators ---> Weplicators :o


Very good episode, was worth the wait. All the characters had at least one memorable scene.
Weplicators? :lol:

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppardanime45.gif
... I hate you... http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppard44.gif


:lol:



But, yeah, that battle was ridiculously spectacular (even in normal-vision :p). I was saying something when the fleet came out of hyperspace over Asuras, and just... kind of... slowed... dow... n... It was amazing, and I loved the team's Jumper rendezvousing (is that a word?) with the Wraith fleet, too - another great shot. And then the Jumper dodging the Traveler ship, too.
The effects guys really surpassed themselves. http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/smilies/stargate/sheppard/sheppardanime20.gif

They really did, didn't they?




It was probably Carter's best episode so far, too. She was much more... well, Carter... than previously, aside from Tabula Rasa. Her dressing down of Ellis was great, and I liked that she was finally talking science, and actually helping to come up with the solution.

I agree here. For all the exciting, dazzling FX, the story was so good, and the character interactions and actions were spot on and really well done too. I agree this was probably Carter's best episode, though I really liked The Seer for her too.

[

The scene with Teyla revealing she's pregnant was really good. Ronon was just great, and John's reaction was understandable and in-character IMO. I saw it as just being because he cares about her, and felt disappointed/betrayed that she couldn't tell them.

That's how I see it too. He was more emotional than he normally would be, but he feels responsible for his team, and this hit him hard.



Some very funny scenes in there, too: the Colonels greeting each other ("What, seriously?"), McKay and Todd ("Did I ever tell you about...?" "Yes. You have."), and "Take it as a compliment. They were afraid of you."

And I can totally understand TPTB being so secretive about Weir... Interesting to see where this goes.

10/10 - I need another viewing, but it could well be my favourite episode...
I forgot to mention how much I laughed at the 'Colonels' scene. It was hysterical, and a little Monty Pythonesque really.

I saw it in HD as well but the difference between you and me is that I still have my pants on :P
:eek: Inte, how did you know? Are you psychic? ;)

Because the CGI was more important! Spent so much money on that, no more dinero to shoot a couple ZPM scenes! :P:P:P
Well yes, in a season opener, or mid season in this case, it is. However, the story, pacing, characterisation, character moments were wonderful too, so it was a great balance, IMO.

did anyone else bothered by Sheppard telling teyla to just "shake it off"

now i know he didn't know about her pregency but still i felt it was kinda rude
You know I felt it was a bit strange too. That's normally the sort of thing Sheppard might say to a malingerer, and that is not something that Teyla is at all. It did come across as a little terse, I agree. The only thing I can think of, is that Sheppard was feeling under pressure to continue evacuating worlds and continuing the fight with the Asurans. So maybe he was a bit stressed?

Not me. Actually, I thought it was a rather interesting comment - he treated her just like he would anyone else under his command.
Actually, that's true too.

I'll do my best to give as accurate a explanation. Doctors in the Military follow the same code of conduct as any other. There are times where the dr keeps the CO's in the loop regarding the health of the team(conversion is a good example.) However I think that in this case Keller had no reason to divulge yet. First she can't break privlage since there was no real threat however it still is a risk.If Keller felt it was neccessary she could tell Shep and Carter but I think this was something up to Teyla not Keller.


Thanks, Mitch. :)





Agreed. She should have told him. If I was in his shoes I'd be just as pissed.



I'd have been very hurt, if it were me in Sheppard's shoes.




Agreed I can also say I'm guilty of doing that myself.;) Shep and Todd?!

You little devil! Shep and Todd? Oh, I know. I have no idea where Peg gets her ideas sometimes! :lol: Well actually, I do. After Common Ground, I said that Todd and Shep had great chemistry. You know what a romantic and a die-hard shipper she is? She just got carried away, I think! ;)





eloquent yeah but not accurate IMHO.



Yep, I agree with you here.





I'm a hopless romantic so I did also.

Are you? I'd never have guessed, actually, but that's so sweet. I'm not romantic at all. Though I love people expressing feelings for eachother.



Agreed though I think there might be some deeper feeling as well.



I think he has feelings that run deep too. I see it as a sibling bond though.


It was so sweet seeing the softer side of Ronon and I hope Teyla finds Kanan.


Agreed. It was lovely.


Agreed. I didn't really miss her in the eps she was absent in as she didn't need to be there however she was top notch in this and it was great seeing her really fitting in. Loved her ripping Ellis a new one.

Now I did miss her on occasion. Like in Travelers and TMC. I felt a leader's influence was needed, though I understand why she couldn't be there. I loved Ellis getting chewed out. Funny thing is, I think Ellis had a point, he just went too far, IMO. Still, I like Carter stuck up for her people, yet was still polite to Ellis.





Like the fact she is far more believable as leader? *runs and hides*;)



:lol: You make a good point, though.






Definatly some of their best work and it irks me how some watch these scenes with a magnifying glass looking for the itty bitty inconsistencies.



Well, I couldn't see any! Then again, I'm not an expert, to be fair.



Agreed it could either, and personally would love her as an enemy.

I quite like that idea myself.



Right we don't want them making the same mistake that was made in Gemini.

Indeed not.



Exactly. The real Weir is dead even if the body survived. Our Weir is gone so could RepliWeir or DupliWeir be a good ally? Don't think so because it's a huge risk.


It would be, and would she ever be trusted again in a position of command? I doubt it really, but who can say?

Enokrad
January 10th, 2008, 04:14 AM
just adding to the long list of congrats on this episode
Kudos to all staff writting/production and anyone else involved.
You created a great episode that had a little of everything. This episode is a definite inductee in my list of all time greats in the Stargate universe. keep up the good job.

- Eno

jckfan55
January 10th, 2008, 07:38 AM
I agree here. For all the exciting, dazzling FX, the story was so good, and the character interactions and actions were spot on and really well done too. I agree this was probably Carter's best episode, though I really liked The Seer for her too.


Ditto. The story kept me interested and I liked the character interactions. Carter really seemed like herself in this ep. It's silly for her not to take some role on the science stuff even though it's Rodney's department now. I loved that science spark we saw. Loved when she jumped out of her chair as she started talking science with Rodney. Very Sam. I'm hoping for more of this.

I think Shep was hurt that Teyla hadn't told him & also ticked as a commander that she hadn't told him. I do hope we get some followup on this issue w/ Teyla & Shep; also w/ the other team members & Carter. I'm liking Ronan more and more all the time. Loved his interaction with Teyla on this. A good friend.

Edit: and loved that surprise Weir appearance

Linzi
January 10th, 2008, 07:48 AM
Ditto. The story kept me interested and I liked the character interactions. Carter really seemed like herself in this ep. It's silly for her not to take some role on the science stuff even though it's Rodney's department now. I loved that science spark we saw. Loved when she jumped out of her chair as she started talking science with Rodney. Very Sam. I'm hoping for more of this.

I think Shep was hurt that Teyla hadn't told him & also ticked as a commander that she hadn't told him. I do hope we get some followup on this issue w/ Teyla & Shep; also w/ the other team members & Carter. I'm liking Ronan more and more all the time. Loved his interaction with Teyla on this. A good friend.
I must admit, I too was pleased to see that spark of old science geek Carter. But, wisely, she then stepped back and let Rodney get on with it. I think that's the right way to play it; she comes up with idea, or helps but lets Rodney take the main burden of the work. What I also like, is that Carter understands what Rodney is doing. Before, though Sheppard is undoubtedly very smart, coulda been in mensa, afterall ;), he couldn't possibly understand the complexity of what Rodney had sometimes been doing or was wanting to do. Obviously Weir understood even less, as far as I can see. But now Carter can evaluate his ideas and give him the go ahead for things knowing what he's doing etc... And yet, she's not cramping his style or interfering.

Rodney does really need careful supervision, and though he listens to Sheppard probably more than anyone else, IMHO, I think Carter is the best one to know if he's endangering himself etc...(Not that I'm saying this is something he does regularly at all - because obviously he doesn't). I really do believe a scientist who's also a military person makes sense at being in charge here. So much of the expedition is science based, though obvioulsy the military aspect is much more important now.

I really hope we get some follow up stuff on Sheppard's reaction to Teyla's news. I could be wrong here, but I'm expecting to see this tackled in Quarantine.

Ronon has really come on, I think. He's so sweet. Except when he gives the wraith the stink eye, then he's scary! :)

jckfan55
January 10th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Right--there has to be balance. Just as it would be wrong for Carter to take over Rodney's lab given that she's a CO now it would be wrong not to make use of her expertise at all.

Linzi
January 10th, 2008, 07:57 AM
Right--there has to be balance. Just as it would be wrong for Carter to take over Rodney's lab given that she's a CO now it would be wrong not to make use of her expertise at all.
I agree. This is the first time I've felt that balance properly addressed, which is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. I think sometimes it takes time to incorporate characters into a show; for the writers to get a feel for it all. I feel they've done just that now. :)

stclare
January 10th, 2008, 11:54 AM
I have to say BAMSR realy went along way in making me warm to Carters presence on Atlantis more than any other ep so far.

I feel they incorporated her fully but without making the ep hinge on any one person. i liked the interactions between the characters but would realy like to see Rodney in more team scenes and esp with Teyla as they hardly ever seem to do those moments together.

I also was realy impressed by Fran and the actress who portrayed her. the way she bounced of Radek and Rodney was realy nice.

my only gripe was Larin I know she wasnt in it much, but she irritates the hell out of me and i find her and sheps scenes uncomfortable to watch. i know that characters are entitled to romance but i realy would rather it happen off screen. like the key moments we miss, rather than see things like this "ill call you" scene which added nothing to the story IMHO.

as i said though this is a minor gripe i dont know wether there setting up a longer story arc for Larin, i for one would rather explore Fran's charcter.

so BAMSAR is now on my rewatch list that makes 3 so far, which is better than i had hoped so yay me :)

Madeleine
January 10th, 2008, 12:25 PM
I liked this one. McKay's solution - gravity, in a word - was so simple as to be elegant. Reminds me of SG1's excellent A Matter of Time and the jolly decent Exodus, without feeling rip-off-ish.

Carter, for possibly the first time in years, acted like a real commander, interrupting a colleague without raising her voice and laying down the law without leaving any opening for argument. Yay. Also, nice balance here between Carter the former science institute commander and Carter the present military base commander.

Teyla's baby turns out to be a straightforward ordinary sprog, none of your mystical alien whatnot. Yay. And she's got shippy with someone that we don't have to see a great deal of: shippiness to perfection.

If there was a flaw it was that no opportunity was taken to wonder if McKay's destructo-bot was self-aware and what the ethics of the situation were. It would have slowed the story, sure, but it seems like a pretty big deal sort of thing to just skip altogether. Maybe the Larrin stuff could have been got rid of to make way for a scene or two on the subject.

Still, well worth watching. And best of all, 'Weir's' surprise reappearance at the end. I'm unspoiled as to what this Weir is, but looking forward to seeing.

SaberBlade
January 10th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Quick Question, but did anyone catch what FRAN stood for?

I got the FR, but not the AN.

jenks
January 10th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Friendly Replicator ANdriod

Jill_Ion
January 10th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Man, I have to say this episode has a nice ending. Almost expected her eyes to glow like a Goa'uld!!

Wouldn't that have been the kick-in-the-pants after the smack-to-the-head wow?! :weir: RepliGoa'uldWeir!


Quick Question, but did anyone catch what FRAN stood for?

I got the FR, but not the AN.

Friendly Replicator ANdroid. She was very cool, in her brief life. "Hello." Perfect.

Emme
January 10th, 2008, 03:48 PM
Hi all Just wanna throw in my 2p on BAMSR.

I thought this episode blew me away.

I know some people think that the replicator machine was a little too convenient but it has appeared briefly before (repli elizabeth woke up on it in TMC) and to not use ancient technology found in the city would be silly if you need it and can use it. I thought it shows how far we have come in terms of being able to deal with these situations. It would be like sawing the lid off a can when there is a tin opener next to you ;).

I am a little sad to see the relpicators go as what they did in first strike could have made for some interesting plot lines. I feel the wraith have little plots left in them and maybe they should have been the ones to go.

I'm one of those who enjoyed Travelers but I don't think Larins character was used well in this ep. If it was to set up future plots then grudgingly ok. But I think this could have been a better opportunity to show her acting for her peoples best interests rather than being there just to flirt a little.
I think what I'm saying is this ep could have set her up as a well rounded character for the future. Not just an appearance to establish a possible thing with shep.

I'm not an anti shipper (is that the correct phrase?) I actually like see a bit of romance here and there.

Not sure about the whole Fran thing. That was random again in may have been to set up something for the future I think it may have been to show we can work the replicator creating device for some future plot. They could have found a way to introduce to base code modifications in another way had they not had the device. (being teamed up with a wraith who had taken replicators prisoner in the past to experiment on them.

These are just my thoughts thought I'd throw them into the mix.

Em

Aussie_Fan
January 11th, 2008, 12:04 AM
*Bounces in all smiley like* After finally being able to watch this ep I had to come and comment about it!

After giving up on Atlantis after a really lame first half of the season, the only reason I even considered watching BAMSR was after reading all your comments. And boooooy am I glad I did!! I really, really love this ep!

Firstly it brought back the old style Atlantis which I really love. The story, the scenes and that overall atmosphere had me squeeing :) The attempts at making the show "darker" throughout the first half of the season just had me cringing. (Gotta change more then the lights guys! ;)) I so hope the rest of the season continous in this direction.

I absolutely LOVED the ending. Seeing Weir again and shrouded in such mystery will have me jumping and guessing in my seat until they *hopefully* reveal what she's up to.


There were only two things that really erked me in the ep.

1). I am SOOOO sick of all the leather. (I think I've mentioned this in every ep thread, lol).

2). Sam being on the ship just because tptb wanted her there. It always bugged me when Weir was put in eps just because they needed her (submersion, progeny are two examples). I understand Sam has all the military and science jazz but she's on Atlantis as the leader and should therefore be doing all the leader stuffs. Which usually does mean staying behind.


All in all, 7 outta 10 :D

Naonak
January 11th, 2008, 01:46 AM
I really hope we get some follow up stuff on Sheppard's reaction to Teyla's news. I could be wrong here, but I'm expecting to see this tackled in Quarantine.
Nope, you're right - according to the Sky episode description, John and Teyla get locked in McKay's lab. I'm hoping they're right, too.

Linzi
January 11th, 2008, 08:28 AM
Nope, you're right - according to the Sky episode description, John and Teyla get locked in McKay's lab. I'm hoping they're right, too.
Really? I haven't read that. Where are Sky's episode descriptions? Whenever I go to their site, I never find anything! :o

Naonak
January 11th, 2008, 08:45 AM
Really? I haven't read that. Where are Sky's episode descriptions? Whenever I go to their site, I never find anything! :o
Ah, not their normal site, that's terrible.

It's this (http://data.skyprogrammeinformation.co.uk/wtv.php?week=228&chan=SKD1) one: their online programming schedule.

I think it's actually just for TV guide writers and whatever, but it got out somehow... It's pretty handy.

The descriptions normally get put on the Gateworld episode guide, too, though.

runnerX
January 11th, 2008, 04:07 PM
fran was insanly hot and very willing to help. i hate mckay more cuz he let her die. MAKE ANOTHER ONE!!!!!!

best ep ever. even better than my fave sg1 eps. DAMN FRAN WAS HOT

If i would have an android like that i would never get out of the house.:cameron:

Jumper_One
January 11th, 2008, 04:32 PM
If i would have an android like that i would never get out of the house.:cameron:

:indeed: if only :D

marielabbott
January 11th, 2008, 09:05 PM
I watched this episode in an odd way; last week I missed all but the final ten minutes. And I liked and was excited by those ten minutes, so I watched the full episode this week. Unfortunately I have been disappointed by this season--for the most part--and was especially disappointed in TMC. But this episode was OK. I still think the final ten minutes were the best, with the space battle and especially the dramatic and exciting reveal of Weir.

I would have been more pleased with the episode if Larrin was not present. The concept of the Travelers is cool, but I really, really dislike her character and the juvenile sexual humor between her and Sheppard. Instead of Larrin, I wish they had more scenes with Fran, perhaps the one where she asks McKay and Zelenka for a name. I wanted to learn more about her, and it would have been more interesting to debate the ethical dilema of sending a self-aware computer program to it's death than see Larrin parade around a tied-up Sheppard.

The scene where Teyla reveals her pregnancy was well done, I thought, though I wish McKay had been present, or that we had seen a later scene where he learned of it.

I liked the interaction with Todd. He seemed more like the slippery enemy/ally in Common Ground then in the previous episodes.

Carter should have stepped in sooner during the argument between Ellis and McKay. I supervise a very small staff and if they started arguing like that during a meeting, I would immediately step in and try to shut it down. I would also do the same if someone from another department started to attack one of my staff. Carter allowed the situation to escalate too far. Maybe the writers were trying to show her making a rookie mistake. I also wonder at the wisdom of having her, along with so many other high ranking Atlantis personnel, take part in the attack on the replicator homeworld. If they were wiped out--well, there goes an awful lot of high ranking people.

The reveal of Weir at the end is what really made the episode for me. It's not often a reveal is such a surprise, and one with so many possibilities. It actually made me excited, which is how I'd like to feel about Atlantis.

CassandraSGA
January 12th, 2008, 07:25 AM
I loved this eps - my favourite of season 4. Unfortunately, I had read a spoiler so I knew Weir was going to put in an appearance; a shame as the surprise would have been great. I loved Ronon - he's just getting better and better. I loved that he congratulates Teyla and that he's such a good friend. I don't like Larin at all; she survived the battle, pity about that. Wish they'd left her out and shown more of Fran and have more of the whole ethical thing.
Nice to see Caldwell again.
I was so anti Carter being in command but I have to confess she's growing on me. I thought she would be the insufferable know it all, but she's hardly interfered in Rodney's domain at all. And she's showing more leadership skills than she did in SG-1.
Loved the "colonel; colonel; colonel " thing. Very funny.

Great eps, tptb - more of the same please.

JackHarkness_Hot
January 12th, 2008, 02:14 PM
this episode is definitely a lot better than the earlier 10 episodes. Not because that it features a fantastic armada, LOL but because how they manage to get rid *most* of the Pegasus Galaxy-Replicators. The cast performed brilliantly in this episode! Carter telling Everett off not to speak to McKay in such ill-manner was fantastic! 9/10

I didn't read the spoilers so, did not expect Weir in that sexy hot outfit of hers to appear! ;)

maxbo
January 13th, 2008, 10:21 AM
There were so many WOW! moments in this episode and even though I don't usually pay much attention to special effects, I found myself geeking out throughout. The first WOW! moment was seeing the Daedalus and the Apollo drop out of hyperspace together for the first time and the wowiness continued through watching the team's tiny puddlejumper navigate through 7 hives ships and almost get hit by the huge Travelers ship coming out of hyperspace, the various armada scenes and of course the space battle. WOW! just WOW!

And, as great as the special effects were the character moments were just as strong. Each scene was used to full effect, beginning with that tense and ultimately tragic attempt to evacuate a planet in the destructive path of the Replicators. That scene reinforced how high the stakes were in this battle and also illustrated Atlantis' reliance on Teyla's contacts and diplomacy to gain the trust of the people in need of evacuation. It also foreshadowed Teyla's pregnancy reveal.

This was the best Sam episode so far because for the first time this season, I saw all aspects of Sam in one episode (Leader Sam/Science Sam and Military Sam). And, the best part is that this was done in such a way that it didn't overpower the episode or the other characters. She had a lot of great scenes, but I especially enjoyed her science geek out scenes with Rodney and her, and Caldwell's, awe when they saw the armada for the first time. Seeing these two battle-tested vets almost wide-eyed in wonder added to the WOW! factor of that scene.

Loved seeing Caldwell and Ellis at the same time and I enjoyed contrasting their reactions during Rodney's long-winded briefing. Caldwell's used to Rodney and although he was impatient and bored, he trusted that Rodney would once again pull off an improbable, but successful solution. Ellis, on the other hand, didn't know Rodney that well and what he knew he didn't particularly like so he didn't hesitate to call Rodney on his stalling tactics. Rodney's need to compensate for his dry spell put him on a collision course with Ellis' low threshold for BS and that made for an interesting briefing. I wouldn't mind seeing these two in an episode where they have to depend on each other to survive. Can you just feel the love? :lol:

And speaking of Rodney's dry spell, I was amused by how Zelenka kept referencing it in an effort to get Rodney back on track and I kept flashing back to his (Zelenka's) "losing the will to live" comment in Miller's Crossing. I would imagine that dealing with dryspell-Rodney is much worse than usual Rodney so he was willing to do whatever necessary to break that dry-spell.

Todd continues to be a delight, which is a pleasant surprise because I was worried that the more we saw him the less I would enjoy him. Perhaps during the Rodney/Ellis bonding episode, we could have Ronon/Todd bonding too. Yep, I can feel the love. :lol:

Teyla's pregnancy reveal was very well done with just the right amount of angst to have reprecussions beyond this episode (I hope). Sheppard's reaction was harsh, but understandable and Ronon's support was just the balm that Teyla needed after the tense standoff with Sheppard.

FRAN was a pleasant surprise. She made a huge impression and I wouldn't mind seeing some version of her again.

And, just when I thought the episode was over and that the drama had ended - there was Elizabeth. Another WOW! moment. Bring on Season 5!

nx01a
January 13th, 2008, 07:29 PM
...so the point of increasing the nanites' attraction was to pull them from all across Asuras and orbit into a single superdense 'blob' and implode it. That's cool. What about the 6/7 ships that were blown up lightyears away and their replicators? Sure, space'll weaken them but not destroy them and all some Wraith idiot scientist has to do it pick one up in order to 'change its base code' [ugh] to destroy Atlantis and this whole things starts all over again.

xSFx
January 14th, 2008, 07:11 AM
There's a HD version out (720p) that's great for watching.
Apart for being my favourite episode this season, it's got the best SFX so watching it HD is a treat!

Give it a try :D

randy23
January 14th, 2008, 08:01 AM
Well what to we have here?

1. "Sam, we're geniuses!" Glad to be reminded of it! :)

2. Elis, OK McKay was being a moron during the meet, but technically Sam was right in saying that he crossed the line.

3. Fran, Rodney, you nutcase!

4. Larrin still came accross as slightly arrogant but liked her better here.

5. The Wraith. INteresting manouvers here.

6. Destruction of Asuras rocked!

7. Teyla reveal, meh, could get interesting if she and Ronan wind up going rogue!

8. Was NOT expecting Weir particularly as I don't think Torri wants to do S5 last I checked!

Seriously good ep, in the mixer for best of the season, where do they go from here?

What exactly do you mean by nutcase?

GoSpikey
January 14th, 2008, 03:07 PM
Bring on Season 5!

But first the Michael eps, and Midway! ;)

They can skip the others, I think... :P

Liam Kincaid
January 16th, 2008, 06:00 PM
Good episode, but hasn't someone already done a TV show about a nani named Fran?

Jumper_One
January 16th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Good episode, but hasn't someone already done a TV show about a nani named Fran?

:lol:

jetvlt
January 19th, 2008, 09:51 AM
lol good call!

Bobby\Jolinar
January 19th, 2008, 06:53 PM
There's a HD version out (720p) that's great for watching.
Apart for being my favourite episode this season, it's got the best SFX so watching it HD is a treat!

Give it a try :D

Yes seeing that Armada in HD on my TV Display is gorgeous :D

Nadatom
January 20th, 2008, 08:00 AM
I loved the character Fran though she was short lived, whoever it was who played her did a wonderful job, she was able to put a lot of character into the short time she had. Does anybody else feel bad for Fran? lol I feel horrible how they were so willing to kill her. I didn't like how McKay wrote her off as something that couldn't think or feel "a bunch of 1's and 0's"

Col. Shadow Quinn
January 24th, 2008, 06:49 AM
What we learned from this episode
-Daedalus and Apollo have the new Asgard Plasma Beam weapons
-the Ancients a device meant for creating the Replicators.
-Carter, Sheppard, Ronon, and McKay now know Teyla's pregrant
-Weir is still alive and kicking.
Maj. Marks has a first name. (http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/411/html/bamsr0824.html)
-Neutronium is very dense.
-Apollo patch: Daedalus Class Ship, Apollo, Advanced Tactical Deployment, Second Tactical Wing.
-McKay destroyed another planet.
-ARG's no longer work against the Asurans.
-This is where life support is monitored. (http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/411/html/bamsr0183.html)
Engine Status Monitor (http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s4/411/html/bamsr0169.html)

PG15
January 24th, 2008, 09:59 PM
Kevin! :D

Arutha2321
February 26th, 2008, 02:53 PM
Well. I wonder how long would it take for Fran to become a murderous ***** as the rest of the Repilcators. I mean, she was on the screen for just a short time and she showed more humanity than f.e. Rodney in more than half a season. Oh yes and she was also really cute. :) :love: I wouldn't be angry if Rodney found some excuse to make another one in upcoming episodes.

John W
July 8th, 2008, 10:09 AM
This episode certainly was good. Obviously, the best bit for me had to be the space battle, which actually managed to look cooler and better than anything before, probably due to the glow from the nearby star giving everything a different look.:cool:

I was really amazed and pleased to see both the Apollo and Daedalus together in this episode, as well as their respective commanders. Especially since the latter hadn't been seen at all this season before now. Even better was the fact that both ships have now been upgraded with the new Asgard weaponry. The only confusion I had was why the Odyssey wasn't there too. It was obvious throughout the episode that they needed as many ships as possible, so why not that one?:confused: Still, I didn't miss the fact that Major Marks has transferred to the Apollo. A nice touch to keep him around, since he'd become a familiar face on "SG-1".

The final twist at the very end of the episode really made me go, "Oh!" as I had definitely not been expecting that. When the Replicator planet exploded, I had thought, "Well, if Weir wasn't dead before now, she is now!" LOL! But seeing her on the bridge of the Replicator ship at the end was definitely a complete turnaround to that. I'm definitely interested in seeing how this develops later in the series. BTW, I love how Evil Weir's cool leather jacket has the Atlantis stripes across the top, like it's an evil version of their uniform.

Falcon Horus
July 8th, 2008, 11:00 AM
BTW, I love how Evil Weir's cool leather jacket has the Atlantis stripes across the top, like it's an evil version of their uniform.

Who says she's evil?

John W
July 8th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Who says she's evil?

Well, that was certainly the impression I got from her posture, expression and from the music. If she's still the Weir we know and love, she'd probably have been less happy about there still being Replicators that have escaped destruction. As I've said before, I haven't seen the rest of Season 4 yet so I have no idea if she turns out to be good or bad. It could just be an act.

Falcon Horus
July 8th, 2008, 11:52 AM
Well, that was certainly the impression I got from her posture, expression and from the music.

You know... the fact that the replicators were perceived as the enemy doesn't mean this Weir-copy is evil too. Why else would she have said that they could finally get started or whatever it was again. Didn't sound all too evil to me.

But that's my perception of things, of course.

John W
July 8th, 2008, 11:56 AM
That is true, especially after what I heard in one of the commentaries on the DVD that this episode is on. So I do know it's possible that she may turn out to be good. Like I said, I'll just have to wait until I see the later episodes.

Nemises
September 20th, 2008, 05:55 PM
we could have potentially had a fleet of aurora class battleships if we had beamed in personnel with the ata gene to take over once the replicators had left there ships. oh well.

John W
September 21st, 2008, 07:05 AM
we could have potentially had a fleet of aurora class battleships if we had beamed in personnel with the ata gene to take over once the replicators had left there ships. oh well.

If you watch closely, the Aurora-Class ships are actually made from Replicator blocks too, as they are seen streaming towards the blob on the planet's surface.

nx01a
September 21st, 2008, 12:21 PM
Those blocks you saw were the remains of the Asurans aboard being dragged down to the planet, leaving many holes throughout the Auroras. Asuran technology is Ancient technology, they don't employ the replicator block tech of the SG-1 reps.

jelgate
September 21st, 2008, 01:06 PM
we could have potentially had a fleet of aurora class battleships if we had beamed in personnel with the ata gene to take over once the replicators had left there ships. oh well.

That would have been beyond dangerous. The Asurans being pulled out were creating tons of holes in the ships and may have severly damanged the ship. Their basically wasn't time to see if the ships were salvagable after the Replibolb was formed to when Asuras blew up. Only a few minutes lasted

bungeeguy245
November 21st, 2008, 01:41 PM
Don't you think Caldwell, Mitchell, Carter, or someone would have thought to have some people ready to beam over and board the Replicator ships in Orbit and take those out of there once the replicators were sucked to the planet? I think it would have been awesome if we would have been able to grab a couple Aurora class ships for ourselves. If nothing else wrip out their ZPM's for Atlantis to be at full power and put one on Earth for easier intergallactic travel.

Also, who thinks McKay would or should eventually try to build a ship out of replicator blocks? The replicators in MW and Ida did it and the Wraith grow their own ships. If we used the blocks to simply form ships, no sentient thinking, that would be pretty cool.

Raeth
November 21st, 2008, 01:50 PM
I think the ships were sucked down to the planet too, along with the Replicators on board, so they wouldn't really have had time. Their primary priority was to make sure that the Replicators were shut off for good, and that's what they were focusing on.

jelgate
November 21st, 2008, 02:12 PM
It wasn't so much that the ship were being pulled down with the Replicators but the Replicators were creating huge holes in the hulls when being pulled to Asuras. This topic has been discussed in length in BAMSR folder. The general conclusion is that their wasn't time and destroying the Replicators was more important then getting a ZPM

Automission
March 3rd, 2009, 01:18 PM
Anyone notice the scene in the lab with Rodney and Todd, after Todd was done talking, Rodney had a wraith effect on his voice for a few seconds? :p

Butlersgate
March 11th, 2009, 12:35 PM
Anyone notice the scene in the lab with Rodney and Todd, after Todd was done talking, Rodney had a wraith effect on his voice for a few seconds? :p

im guna rewatch n check that out!

major davis
May 2nd, 2009, 12:31 PM
Putting words to the greatness of this episode is almost impossible. The action, CGI, story, dialogue, humor, and guest stars were perfect.

10/10

rarocks24
May 25th, 2009, 12:33 PM
Not sure if its been mentioned before, but when the fleet went into hyperspace right when they were about to attack, three 304's go into hyperspace. Not two.

Pharaoh Atem
May 25th, 2009, 12:35 PM
i still think this ep is a bit overrated. i thought the space battle was luckwarm compared to other space battles on other shows. ie DS9 or even the battle at the end of lost city

Falcon Horus
May 25th, 2009, 01:26 PM
i still think this ep is a bit overrated.

Slightly much.

Óðinn
September 6th, 2009, 05:19 AM
this was a great episode!

"To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
... Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd."

WraithQueenH
September 8th, 2009, 05:42 PM
The general conclusion is that their wasn't time and destroying the Replicators was more important then getting a ZPM

Hmm...
Well.. eh.. I'm not supposed to know what happens next right? 'Cause um.. there was ... well ... you know... time.

I agree that those Replicators needed to go bye-bye and that was important, but um... :replicatoranime01: But, Bugs managed it, so if we are so great why couldn't we? We were out thought by bugs, AGAIN! :lol:

(Not sure I need a spoiler thing on here but just in case.)

asdf1239
April 5th, 2010, 11:34 PM
i'm going to raise the slight issue here that what they did with the planet was genocide yet they were celebrating it without a trace of acknowledging the moral ambiguity

jelgate
April 6th, 2010, 05:28 AM
i'm going to raise the slight issue here that what they did with the planet was genocide yet they were celebrating it without a trace of acknowledging the moral ambiguity

Maybe it had to do with the fact the Asurans were wiping out humans

asdf1239
April 6th, 2010, 03:25 PM
yet this action makes them no better than the asurans, they screwed up their programming in the first place and so its their responsibility to fix it. ah well atlantis fell straight off the moral high ground pretty early in the show anyway.

Playtime20
August 3rd, 2010, 11:49 PM
This is the best Space Battle in all of SG I think

mrscopterdoc
September 7th, 2010, 06:51 PM
Good episode.....there was a lot going on but they still managed to pull it off. Loved seeing the wraith ships going into battle with them.

maneth
February 14th, 2011, 10:47 AM
Cool ep, great CGI. Loved the Wraith working together with humans. Too bad the alliance was so shortlived.

Skie
March 18th, 2011, 03:33 AM
yet this action makes them no better than the asurans, they screwed up their programming in the first place and so its their responsibility to fix it. ah well atlantis fell straight off the moral high ground pretty early in the show anyway.

Maybe the fact helps that they are not living things but just machines. At least the ancienst felt the same way and tried to destroy them. It only failed because some of the nanites survived.

Todd saw them dial the gate in the jumper, so he should know now where Atlantis is, right? I mean with the coordinates you get from the dial sequence you should be able to decipher where the stargate ist. They could do it in rising too, they know Atlantis had to be in the PG just from the dial sequence.

Something else worth following is the civil war of the wraith. They battled the replicators a lot and suffered substantial loses (as Todd stated), so maybe there are now enough humans to go around for the wraiths?
So Todd could have used the cloning facility to clone humans instead of soldiers. He could have convinced the wraith to stop their civil war.


Edit: Why do the Wraiths, according to Todd, have a lack of Queens. That doesn't make sense for me. A Queen controls a hive ship, so when a hive gets destroyed, the Queen dies too. Why then should there be a lot of ships without Queens?! Seems like another plot hole for me to get the travelers in.

WraithRichard
May 5th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Cool ep, great CGI. Loved the Wraith working together with humans. Too bad the alliance was so shortlived.

Yeah, I love how they instantly say 'They never showed up at the rendezvous point, so that must mean we're back to being enemies.' You might have wanted to work on your diplomacy skills before that if you didn't want them to think you might ambush them just after having suffered damage in a war.

Blizzah
June 19th, 2011, 11:33 AM
Edit: Why do the Wraiths, according to Todd, have a lack of Queens. That doesn't make sense for me. A Queen controls a hive ship, so when a hive gets destroyed, the Queen dies too. Why then should there be a lot of ships without Queens?! Seems like another plot hole for me to get the travelers in.

I was thinking that maybe the replicators went after the queens first as their initial strategy for killing off the wraith. This could explain the lack of them, but it was also an easy way to get the travellers in.

The space battle was awesome. The episode was enjoyable and I kind of has goosebumps when I saw Dr. Weir. I am looking forward to this plot line. It would make sense for Elizabeth to go after ascension, after all, she would never be fully accepted back at Atlantis and she now has an almost limitless amount of time to figure it out.

LT. COL. John Sheppard
April 18th, 2012, 05:29 AM
this ep was a great way to give SGA the needed "WOW!" factor

Lythisrose
September 17th, 2012, 10:35 AM
From Joe Mallozzi's Blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/09/15/september-15-2012-our-major-teldy-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-be-all-my-sins-rememberd/):

BE ALL MY SINS REMEMBER’D (411)

Actress Michelle Morgan was originally cast as Linara, Davos’s grand-daughter in The Seer, but scheduling conflicts required us to recast the role. Two episodes later, when we were looking for a Fran, we immediately thought of Michelle. And her resemblance to actress Torri Higginson clinched the deal. Michelle was great in her original audition and simply terrific as the friendly but doomed replicator. Fran’s altruistic eagerness and ultimate sacrifice at episode’s end is truly heartbreaking.

Another scheduling conflict through a wrench in the production when Chris Heyerdahl, who had previously played the part of the captive wraith, Todd, was unable to reprise the role. As a result, actor Brendan Penny stepped in for this episode. Chris later looped Todd’s dialogue during post-production. Hats off to our amazing hair and make-up department.

The VFX budget for this episode surpassed those of any other episode of the series. And, in my opinion, it was money well spent:



And another hats off to VFX Supervisor Mark Savela and the rest of the VFX crew.

Not surprisingly, Be All My Sins rates as one of the most popular episodes in Stargate fandom.

VFX Shots from the episode:
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/160.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/161.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/162.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/163.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/164.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/165.jpg

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 17th, 2012, 04:33 PM
Great episode, best of the season and one of the best series.

The effects were awesome, kudos to Mark.

It's a shame the ending was not developed, and just ended. Speaking of which, I still can't believe how the lid was kept on when this aired because I recall this was a surprise to everyone who watch (because of lack of spoilers).

Tomorrow, what happened to those Wraith who helped us.

Krisz
September 17th, 2012, 08:21 PM
I guess this episode illustrates perfectly what SGA is all about. Good old fashioned action, well paced and just great fun to watch.

Rodney creating 'Fran' was interesting, it was quite an unexpected twist that we could all feel for a Replicator for that brief moment as she stood there ready to execute her programming. Reminded me of when SG-1 first met Fifth, that same innocence and willingness to please. I've always felt it was quite sad that humans, Ancients and those of Earth, could never come to terms with this sentient life form they themselves created, leaving the Replicators to never know the 'humanity' they could possibly have achieved, instead all they got was fear and mistrust as a reaction.

The coming together with the Wraith to be the distraction while Fran executed her programming in the fantastic battle above the Asuran home world was one of the top space battles of Stargate for me.

That huge writhing blob of replicators was a surreal scene, added to the tension as we could only hope it wouldn't overcome the attractive force and split up again.

Great VFX all round, definitely top prize to those guys for this episode!

Lieutenant Sparrow
September 18th, 2012, 04:33 AM
Colonel, Colonel, Colonel, Colonels, Colonel, Colonels.

Both earth ships at once. Awesome. And both with Asgard beam weapons. Nice.

Having Wraith ships fight alongside you. Creepy. Was definitely a good idea to wake up Shep before Ronon. Would not have gone well otherwise.

Ugh Larin. Hot yes, likeable person no. Was funny how Ronon jumped out of the way when they were gonna shoot Tod.

All those ships together looked so awesome. Easily one of the best space battles in Stargate history. Was awesome seeing 302's and Darts fighting alongside each other as well. Don't know why the earth ships had to use to rail guns so much.

A godzilla sized replicator. Now that would have been scary. Lucky it worked out in the end. Poor Fran.

Clone Weir: It's time to begin. Uh Oh!

Matt G
September 21st, 2012, 02:37 PM
Midweek, another ep of Atlantis.

1. Oh boy that blowup between Ellis and McKay was nuts.

2. McKay creating Fran was also nuts.

3. Don't think we saw Larrin after this did we?

4. Again, wicked FX.

Quality stuff! :)

jelgate
September 23rd, 2012, 06:42 PM
I just generally love this all around. It has everything. I like it showing Sam coming in to own as she confronts Ellis. The whole Ellis being a jerk has great character moments. But the best character stuff has to go with Teyla revealing her pregnancy to the team. I'm sorry but I have to agree with Sheppherd on this one. The military on Atlantis are US miliarity making Shep's team an US team she has to follow US rules. I know that their are serious rules about a person being active when they are pregnant. So like I said I agree with Sheppherd. Larrin was not evern annoying in this episode. The rope thing was a little much but she comes off as rational in helping Atlantis fighing the Asurans. I was a little disappointed that the ethics of Fran and killing her was largely glossed over. I felt a sentient being like herself should have been given more time. I loved the space battle in this episode for just showing such great detail in fighting the Asurans. Also we actually got to see Sam's scientist side for a second. Once again its sad the revial at the end never went anywhere

Matt G
September 24th, 2012, 10:14 AM
The Atlantis military comes from all over Earth Jel. Shep has every right to run his team on US military lines because that's what he's used to unless Sam were to pull rank on him for whatever reason that doesn't neccersarilly mean that the US standard is the default standard on Atlantis.

jelgate
September 24th, 2012, 10:27 AM
The Atlantis military comes from all over Earth Jel. Shep has every right to run his team on US military lines because that's what he's used to unless Sam were to pull rank on him for whatever reason that doesn't neccersarilly mean that the US standard is the default standard on Atlantis.

The IOA and expedition is international but previous episodes like The Intruder show that the military in Atlantis comes from the US specifically Stargate Command. Even that was not the case military rules about pregnancy in Earth militaries are generally quite similar

Matt G
September 26th, 2012, 08:10 AM
Then explain why throughout Atlantis I saw military/security personel with a variety of flags on their arms?(German, British, possibly Australian off the top of my head).

Redhooks
September 27th, 2012, 02:26 PM
...Larrin was not evern annoying in this episode. The rope thing was a little much but she comes off as rational in helping Atlantis fighing the Asurans...I have to disagree with you on the point about the Travelers's helping Atlantis as being rational. I do not think there was enough reason to help while exposing their existance to the Wraith. There should have been a lot more negotiation for their help in a previous episode.

jelgate
September 27th, 2012, 03:37 PM
Then explain why throughout Atlantis I saw military/security personel with a variety of flags on their arms?(German, British, possibly Australian off the top of my head).
Same reason the the CGI gates in Atlantis only had eight chevrons. Production messes up from time to time.


I have to disagree with you on the point about the Travelers's helping Atlantis as being rational. I do not think there was enough reason to help while exposing their existance to the Wraith. There should have been a lot more negotiation for their help in a previous episode.

I have a hard time believing the Wraith don't already know about the Travelers.

Redhooks
September 28th, 2012, 07:21 PM
I have a hard time believing the Wraith don't already know about the Travelers.Then you and I will have to disagree again. If the Wraith knew about an advanced group of humans, don't you think they would have spent a lot of time in the last few thousand years trying to eliminate the threat the Travelers posed? Also, could pose in the future if they developed a highly advanced weapon that could allow their smaller ships to have an advantage over a Hive ship? I think the Wraith would hunt them down like they destroyed Sateda.

garhkal
September 28th, 2012, 10:43 PM
That imo is why the travelers stayed ON their ships, to keep mobile so the wraith would have a harder time to track them down.

jelgate
September 29th, 2012, 10:20 AM
Then you and I will have to disagree again. If the Wraith knew about an advanced group of humans, don't you think they would have spent a lot of time in the last few thousand years trying to eliminate the threat the Travelers posed? Also, could pose in the future if they developed a highly advanced weapon that could allow their smaller ships to have an advantage over a Hive ship? I think the Wraith would hunt them down like they destroyed Sateda.

To state the obvious space is vast. Thier are millions if not billions of solar systems. Not to mention the vast voids between solar systems. It would be very difficult to hunt down the Travelers especially if the Wraith are hibernating. Satedia was on one planet. Very easy to locate a planet with a Stargate on it

garhkal
October 2nd, 2012, 02:50 PM
Plus who's to say they even considered the travellers with their broke ass ships a threat.

jelgate
October 2nd, 2012, 03:24 PM
Now that I would disagree with. If they found a race like the Satedans or Genii a threat the Wraith would certainly see the Travelers as a threat. Broken or not they have hyperdrive ships

Cluas
February 22nd, 2013, 04:02 PM
Great episode.
As everyone else i thought it was some great CGI, and it was good to see the Travelers again. Didn't really like Fran, she (it) made me real nervous.
But Caldwell was there and that was a plus.
The "Colonel, Colonel, Colonel, Colonels" "Are you serious?" was funny.
And Teyla finally revealed her secret ...

garhkal
February 24th, 2013, 02:06 PM
Now that I would disagree with. If they found a race like the Satedans or Genii a threat the Wraith would certainly see the Travelers as a threat. Broken or not they have hyperdrive ships

True they did have hyper drives..

mrscopterdoc
August 21st, 2014, 12:33 PM
I guess this episode illustrates perfectly what SGA is all about. Good old fashioned action, well paced and just great fun to watch.

exactly! I sure do miss this show.