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s09119
January 5th, 2008, 08:31 AM
I noticed this too. I thought it was the poor quality of the TV I was watching on (which was not the TV I usually watch on). I suspect that they had to reduce the overall level of detailing a little to fit the CGI work on the entire battle fit into the production schedule and the budget. Still the rail gun effect was noticeably bad.

I was watching on a plasma HDTV... so not a TV quality issue haha. But it was just soooo bad...

Seastallion
January 5th, 2008, 08:35 AM
I really, really liked this episode..!

It is always nice to see a little 'fleet' action on Stargate and it was just SO AWESOME to FINALLY after ALL these YEARS to get to see 'our' ship just OWN the bad guys in a fire fight. YES..!!! Very cool. It looks like the big problem for Earth at the moment is the sheer lack of ships to work with. As long as they don't keep destroying ships, Earth ought to be able to build up a sizeable fleet within a few years.

As for the Wraith, I suppose they might be quite concerned that humans have such devestating weaponry and tactical skills (seeing as it was humans that came up with the plan for destroying the replicators once and for all) at their disposal. Especially if they weren't completely aware of 'the Travelers'. Additionally, learning that the 'Atlanteans' now have access to MUCH more powerful weapons for their ships than they did in previous encounters would probably be VERY disturbing.

It was kinda nice to see Sam defending McKay like she did. Yeah, he can be annoying but he's a good guy, and often has important info to dish out. I guess she's come a long way from 'hating' him. :P But to be fair... so has he. I think she was a good influence on him, teaching him to think outside the box sometimes. He was previouslly very intelligent but often uninspired. I think he's finally caught up with Sam for whacky techno-scientific ideas that are just CRAZY. He DID learn from the best though... :)

Gotta say... that ending scene with RepliWeir (?) was quite cool..! The real question is are THEY a threat? Obviously the Asurans (replicators) wanted to keep them down, if Weir was concerned with watching their backs because of them. Why? What are THEIR goals? Tune in to find out... Hmmm.

:D

jelgate
January 5th, 2008, 08:36 AM
What part you don't understand??* It is not his place to worry about her unborn child.?* Her pregnancy is not putting the team at risk. When she gets to big to go on mission because she will slow them down then its time for her to sit it out if possible.?* But that is the only thing he needs to worry about.?* Her pregnancy is absolutely none of his business.Not true.?* He has a right to know becasue Sheppard is essentialy Teyla's boss. Who knows the kind of damage that can be done if she got shot?*

striker7770
January 5th, 2008, 08:39 AM
was the apollo the huge ship or was it the dedilus

Ruffles
January 5th, 2008, 08:57 AM
I absolutely agree. Too good of a character to casually make and throw away for one episode. I'd like to see another FRAN as a sort of adviser in Atlantis. If it was nice having an ugly Wraith around, imagine what a lovely Replicator could do?

Well, McKay still has the machine to manufacture another one. Maybe he'll get bored one day....


Oh he was flirting, but he wasn't as smooth and intentionally charming as he normally is. Kirk-ish-ness is flirting with style; Shep was just awesomely awkward here. Larrin flusters him a bit, which is why I don't mind seeing her.

I find Shep to be awkward around girls most of the time, but really awkward here. And asking for her phone number! Hee! Thought that was cute.


I loved this eps. But I have always thought that Teyla and her people was treated with little or no respect. The way John went off on her was not necessary. I felt like he was being an *******. I feel a person who is a leader of her people, her world, would not allow anyone to speak to her in such a way. Hell, it would be hard to even take orders from someone else. So she is pregnant, so what? if you are not the father you don't even get a voice in what I do? Don't treat me like I'm your responsibility. She was taking care herself and her people before he came along and if it wasn't for John and the Atlantis team everyone wouldn't be getting slaughter. She would have to fight the wraith pregnant if he (John) wasn't around . She has every right to fight until she become a liability. John never disrespect Ronon like that. He sucks up to Ronon. I love that Ronon is Teyla friend.

She is his responsibility. She made the choice to submit to his leadership when she joined the team. He chewed her out in The Siege when she punched Bates. He gives the orders. As he told Rodney is Miller's Crossing - they report directly to him. She isn't required to stay on his team - can quit whenever she wants - but until she does, she is under his command and is his responsibility.


She lives in a world where that is a possibility with or without John. He need to get over himself. It is not his job to tell Teyla what chance she can take with HER baby, he is not the father therefore it isn't even open for discussion.

It is while she is a member of his team. She is risking more than just herself out there. If she is injured and miscarries in the field, she would be risking the lives of her teammates as well. It's one thing to be injured while on a mission (shot, stunned, etc). Every time that happens, the team is slowed down trying to carry the injured one to the gate to get home. It's another thing to go on a mission with a known physical condition (whether pregnant, sick or whatever) that could turn into a medical emergency. Teyla is as tough as they come, but don't you think one of the reasons she has hesitated in telling Sheppard is she knew how he would react?


I don't think he cares about her like family. He and military has always disrespected Teyla and her people. They treat them like children. Being pregnant is the most personal thing ever and it is up to her when she wants to share that information. It is not his right he is not the father. He is a co worker, colleague and a friend but that is all and it doesn't matter what he feels for her. And if he see her as family then that makes it worst. She feels alone and scared that she have lost the father of her child. Who gives a shi* how he feels. She was a protector of her people when he met her, she doesn't need his protection. Just because you are a woman doesn't mean in a time of war you get to sit it out because you are pregnant. She would be fighting the wraith pregnant or not if she never went to Atlantis.

Are we watching the same show? He has stood up for Teyla time and again (see Suspicion, The Gift, The Siege for examples). He told her in Sateda that he thought of her as family, that he would do anything for her. And she told him that he had always made her feel welcome.

You are right that she would be fighting the Wraith pregnant or not if she had never been to Atlantis. Of course, she would be missing along with her people if she hadn't been on Atlantis. But she made the choice to leave her people and follow the rules set by the Lantians. You can't have it both ways.


Why because men run the military so there world is law? When and if she decided to tell him she is pregnant is still up to her. She didn't join our military, she didn't take the oath and the only reason she is with them is because they screwed up and awaken the wraith. Her baby would have had a better chance at surviving if the Atlantis team would have never came alone. She join his team and helped them to battle the wraith. They should be grateful and beg for forgiveness from her and the rest of the people in galaxy She should tell you when and if decided to tell you and you can just deal with it. The same way she have to deal with the mess they created.

Have you noticed that a woman is running the military on Atlantis? She certainly didn't question Sheppard's decision to remove her from active duty when he told her.


TBH, my take on Teyla's activities pre-expedition is different than yours. I believe she worked vigorously and strenuously each time a dart came through the Stargate to keep people she cared about from being culled. Her activities would have included running, jumping, fighting, pulling, and carrying. She ran toward the settlement, not away from it, in Rising. That's "resisting the Wraith" in my book. It certainly qualifies as life-risking behavior. Remove the Wraith from the picture and I believe she went through the Stargate regularly, without a MALP to tell her it was safe. The Pegasus and its dangers are not alien to her.

<snippage>

But I agree with Mekarri: that's not the point.

Three months along, without her friend, boss, or whatever you want to call him (Sheppard) to tell her what she should be worried about, poor Teyla'd never figure it out on her own. Without Sheppard, poor Teyla'd never quite get or do what's good for her; she'd never weigh risk properly or according to her needs, or choose the proper direction and action for her welfare and that of her unborn child.

<more snippage>

I agree with your thoughts on Teyla's life before the expedition arrived. But I don't think Sheppard was really trying to explain the dangers to Teyla when she finally told him nor do I think she couldn't figure it out on her own. I think he was reacting to the moment - thinking out loud if you will, going through all the dangers they'd recently been through in his mind and seeing how horribly any number of them could go wrong.


That's something I think all the would-be Sheppard/Teyla ship-heads were in a tizzy over...they're holding onto hope that those two would hook up. I totally understand why Sheppard pulled her from the team: everytime she steps through the gate...she's putting that baby at risk.

I don't think Carter was asking in a "are you the daddy?" sense as much as assuming Sheppard would have known...being so close to Teyla.

It was cool to see Ronin be so laid back about it and actually walk with her to the infirmary to get checked out. Would surprise me if Sheppard was just a lil upset that she didn't tell him sooner.

That's how I saw it too. She knows the two are close friends and would assume Sheppard knew what was going on. I think he made the same assumption (one reason he was so upset).


Hey Here's a question for you what did Sheppard mean in "This Mortal Coil" by " Yeah. We tricked you, but don’t feel so bad. After all, we almost had ourselves convinced." i wonder if this has to do with Weir's little command of an ancient warship?

I thought Sheppard meant that they'd almost convinced themselves they were the real Atlantis team - fully human. Notice that his nanites are repairing his face as he says the words. I think it's meant to imply he thought he should have died in the crash and living through it (being repaired) made him realize just how different he really was from the real Sheppard.

Cautious Explorer
January 5th, 2008, 09:00 AM
Somewhat solid ep, though it felt like they tried to cram too much into this ep. Lots of exposition too, especially in the meetings (did Rodney really have to explain to the viewers how the Deddy and Apollo were refitted?).

So...they killed off the replicators by turning them into The Blob. Uh...yeah... :S

THANK YOU for not blowing up yet another ship. Nice to be proven wrong.

Larrin can never come back and I'll be perfectly happy. Pointless character.

No real point for Fran either. Did Rodney really have to make the cells into something so close to human? Did Carter and Rodney really have to have such a weak dialog about the rights of Fran? It added little to the story.

LOVED Ronon's touching response to Teyla's big reveal.Far better than Shepper's pissy little rant, anyway (Yeah Shep, pregnant Athosian women never ran the risk of encountering wraith stunners :rolleyes:). I far prefer this side to Ronon than him always acting tough and telling Rodney to stuff it. Ronon has really grown on me as a character.

Ellis was totally in the right for calling out McKay. Rodney wasted everyone's time at the initial meeting and then convinced everyone of deadlines he couldn't keep. And Ellis didn't take Carter's "dressing down" seriously either (nor did I, I wasn't impressed with her delivery) - he was right back on McKay after she talked to him.


I totally agree.

I thought it was overloaded with technobabble from both McKay and Carter. Larin might be tolerable if a better actress were portraying her. I was bored with the space battle. People sitting in big ships and shooting at each other isn't all that interesting to me.

Carter still doesn't fit in the leadership role. She didn't contribute anything in the briefing and then lit into Ellis for the way he spoke to McKay. She couldn't have stepped in earlier when McKay just kept babbling? She had no idea what stage McKay's work was at before calling the meeting together? It seems like TPTB think the leader's main job is to get into territorial fights with visiting IOA representatives and military officers. :S

It was good to see Caldwell back, although I wish they'd given him more to do. I thought Teyla's pregnancy reveal and Sheppard's reaction was well done.



Out of curiosity, why did Carter spend time squeezing into Barbarella black leather outfit if all she's going to do is SIT in a chair on the Daedalus??

Maybe she has the hots for Caldwell. ;)

I'm really sick of all the leather this season. Teyla, Larin, Carter and now Weir. I guess it's not sicfi without women in tight leather.

InsertUsernameHere
January 5th, 2008, 09:04 AM
:teyla::sheppard:

The thing which (i think) hasn't been mentioned yet about Sheppard "Bowing his top" with Teyla is when he went nuts:
How far along are you?

three months

how long have you known?

two months.

THEN he gets pissed.

I think he had a valid point when she said she had tried to tell him, two months is a long time to not quite manage it. Added to the fact that she knows she shouldn't be getting into those types of situations despite her people's traditions. (it is she that feels she needs to get checked out in the first place)

And he probably just realized that she also doesn't have "the flu or something" as she had said earlier.

Just my thoughts.

Pegasus_SGA
January 5th, 2008, 09:16 AM
I haven't read everyone's posts yet, because let's face it you lot are a chatty bunch today!

So, after watching it twice, I have to say that I absolutely loved it from start to finish. I love it when everything starts to fall into place in an ep, and this time was no exception. The continuity was fab, the storyline was great and had me wondering what was going to happen next. I really didn't expect Rodney to make FRAN *luffed that acronym*. And McKay was back on form. The snark is back. Thank goodness everyone else had noticed he'd been off his game. :P

The character interaction was top notch and everyone had their part to play. Finally the team heard about the pregnancy. And I absolutely loved Ronon's and Shep's reactions, both of them reacting exactly how I expected to them. I loved Ronon showing his big brother support for Teyla and their holding hands. *sniff* And Shep getting antsy that she hadn't confided in him. Loved it.

I adore the CG wraith in so many ways and his interaction with Shep and now Rodney and Ronon. I had to giggle at McKay hiding behind a table. What I also enjoyed was the stunning of the team! What? I'm a whumper, it's expecting and Shep getting a hard wake up call *giggles*. Even after all that, he didn't get as pissed off with the wraith as he did with Teyla. I loved that the CG wraith is getting to know the team's little foiables to, and him waking up Shep before Ronon. :D

The only bit I didn't get was why Larrin tied up Shep, now I know she can be a bit kinky. ;) But that bit for me was the only bit that seemed out of place. I just can't imagine Shep allowing himself to be tied up willingly especially when Larrin was feeling a bit trigger happy.

And was that our Weir or the duplicate? I really hope it's our Weir who's gone a bit nuts and that the replicators have done something to her nanites. I guess time will tell (hopefully). This opens lots of doors for what's to come and personally I can't wait to see what it brings. :D

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 09:19 AM
I haven't read everyone's posts yet, because let's face it you lot are a chatty bunch today!

So, after watching it twice, I have to say that I absolutely loved it from start to finish. I love it when everything starts to fall into place in an ep, and this time was no exception. The continuity was fab, the storyline was great and had me wondering what was going to happen next. I really didn't expect Rodney to make FRAN *luffed that acronym*. And McKay was back on form. The snark is back. Thank goodness everyone else had noticed he'd been off his game. :P

The character interaction was top notch and everyone had their part to play. Finally the team heard about the pregnancy. And I absolutely loved Ronon's and Shep's reactions, both of them reacting exactly how I expected to them. I loved Ronon showing his big brother support for Teyla and their holding hands. *sniff* And Shep getting antsy that she hadn't confided in him. Loved it.

I adore the CG wraith in so many ways and his interaction with Shep and now Rodney and Ronon. I had to giggle at McKay hiding behind a table. What I also enjoyed was the stunning of the team! What? I'm a whumper, it's expecting and Shep getting a hard wake up call *giggles*. Even after all that, he didn't get as pissed off with the wraith as he did with Teyla. I loved that the CG wraith is getting to know the team's little foiables to, and him waking up Shep before Ronon. :D

The only bit I didn't get was why Larrin tied up Shep, now I know she can be a bit kinky. ;) But that bit for me was the only bit that seemed out of place. I just can't imagine Shep allowing himself to be tied up willingly especially when Larrin was feeling a bit trigger happy.

And was that our Weir or the duplicate? I really hope it's our Weir who's gone a bit nuts and that the replicators have done something to her nanites. I guess time will tell (hopefully). This opens lots of doors for what's to come and personally I can't wait to see what it brings. :D


Very well said. The larrin thing was so small it did not even effect the episode at all. Larrin is not a bad character, but she did not hurt the episode at all.

As per Weir, totally agree her character is not just open, there will likely be a continued story arc. There is NO WAY they are not going to continue Weir for next season, imo. I think this is why Joe M has been so quiet with answering questions about Weir in Season 5.

marty2006
January 5th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I want to like this episode. No, I want to love this episode. It had such an epic feel, and so many amazing scenes... but it falters a bit too much for me to ignore.

The Bad:
- CGI. Ugh, what the Hell happened? The only ships that looked good at all were the 304s and Larrin's Aurora... well, all the Auroras. But the Wraith ships were downright un-detailed and purple??? They've always been a pale violet/grey/blue until now, why the sudden obscenely-bright purple? And the rail gun animation was terrible! It looked so cheesy and fake...
- NO DRONES? Come ON! The Auroras or the people on the planet didn't launch a single drone (save Larrin's), even though Carter made it seem that thousands would be headed their way. PLOT HOLE.
- NO SHIELDS? None of the Asuran ships seemed to have shields at all. They were being ripped apart by 302 missiles, for God's sake! PLOT HOLE.
- In "No Man's Land", we saw the Orion take a crapload of punishment from the very-powerful Wraith weaponry. In "BAMSR", two missiles from an F-302 blew a large portion of an Aurora up... now if that isn't a PLOT HOLE I don't know what is...
- What happened to Oberoth? I thought they'd at least show his face or something, as he's the "face" of the Asurans...

My brain says ** at best, but my love for Atlantis and the epic-ness of this episode will force me to give ***.

Final Grade: ***

The cgi wasnt the best due to the amount of ships there were i mean it does cost money to create it and its not like they have a bottomless pit full of cash, i agree with the drones thing, however mckay did say the magnetism thing was hapening ALOT faster than he expected but yea you would have expected them to fire a few, quite a few shots seen the aurora class vessels shields taking a pounding and they blew up so easy with 302 and dart fire id imagine because we aimed for their hyperdrive engines as the wraith said and it caused a massive chain reaction obviously and finally why would they have oberoth return for like 7 seconds of screen time when it wouldnt really do anything for the story. One of the best atlantis episodes to date *****. :D :D :D

jelgate
January 5th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I haven't read everyone's posts yet, because let's face it you lot are a chatty bunch today!?*So, after watching it twice, I have to say that I absolutely loved it from start to finish. I love it when everything starts to fall into place in an ep, and this time was no exception. The continuity was fab, the storyline was great and had me wondering what was going to happen next. I really didn't expect Rodney to make FRAN *luffed that acronym*. And McKay was back on form. The snark is back. Thank goodness everyone else had noticed he'd been off his game. :P?*The character interaction was top notch and everyone had their part to play. Finally the team heard about the pregnancy. And I absolutely loved Ronon's and Shep's reactions, both of them reacting exactly how I expected to them. I loved Ronon showing his big brother support for Teyla and their holding hands. *sniff* And Shep getting antsy that she hadn't confided in him. Loved it.?*I adore the CG wraith in so many ways and his interaction with Shep and now Rodney and Ronon. I had to giggle at McKay hiding behind a table. What I also enjoyed was the stunning of the team! What? I'm a whumper, it's expecting and Shep getting a hard wake up call *giggles*. Even after all that, he didn't get as pissed off with the wraith as he did with Teyla. I loved that the CG wraith is getting to know the team's little foiables to, and him waking up Shep before Ronon. :D?*The only bit I didn't get was why Larrin tied up Shep, now I know she can be a bit kinky. ;) But that bit for me was the only bit that seemed out of place. I just can't imagine Shep allowing himself to be tied up willingly especially when Larrin was feeling a bit trigger happy.?*And was that our Weir or the duplicate? I really hope it's our Weir who's gone a bit nuts and that the replicators have done something to her nanites. I guess time will tell (hopefully). This opens lots of doors for what's to come and personally I can't wait to see what it brings. :DMaybe he didn't have a say in matter. There were more Travelers than Atlantians.

marty2006
January 5th, 2008, 09:25 AM
was the apollo the huge ship or was it the dedilus

lol. They were both the same sized regular daedalus class earth ships.

Pegasus_SGA
January 5th, 2008, 09:28 AM
Very well said. The larrin thing was so small it did not even effect the episode at all. Larrin is not a bad character, but she did not hurt the episode at all.

As per Weir, totally agree her character is not just open, there will likely be a continued story arc. There is NO WAY they are not going to continue Weir for next season, imo. I think this is why Joe M has been so quiet with answering questions about Weir in Season 5.

Thanks hon. I agree, that bit for me was the only....???? What??? Did I miss something? :lol: But I don't think overall it detracted anything from the ep. What surprised me was that the Travelers now know the location of Atlantis, now given their tentative relationship, i'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

The other thing that has me wondering is that the CG wraith was gone for quite some time, so I wonder what's going on behind the scenes there? Obviously something very sneaky. :P I did think he looked a bit different, but I can't for the life of me think why that was. Did he have different teeth or not enough jelly on him or something? Or am I imagining things again? :o

As for Weir, I wouldn't say I disliked Weir, but for me she was always Hammondesque, in the background, but supportive, but with little meat on the bone if that makes sense. This whole new storyline makes her a lot more interesting and if it is our Weir, she's got all her expertise and memories to draw on. And to be honest, the Asuran storyline is a key arc, so I really can't see them just dropping this storyline completely. I really am looking forward to seeing just what an advirsary Weir can be to the Atlantis team,and I hope the writers play that part up. :D Oooooh the angst potential at having to kill one of their own if it came to that. :D

jelgate
January 5th, 2008, 09:39 AM
Thanks hon. I agree, that bit for me was the only....???? What??? Did I miss something? :lol: But I don't think overall it detracted anything from the ep. What surprised me was that the Travelers now know the location of Atlantis, now given their tentative relationship, i'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.?*The other thing that has me wondering is that the CG wraith was gone for quite some time, so I wonder what's going on behind the scenes there? Obviously something very sneaky. :P I did think he looked a bit different, but I can't for the life of me think why that was. Did he have different teeth or not enough jelly on him or something? Or am I imagining things again? :o?*As for Weir, I wouldn't say I disliked Weir, but for me she was always Hammondesque, in the background, but supportive, but with little meat on the bone if that makes sense. This whole new storyline makes her a lot more interesting and if it is our Weir, she's got all her expertise and memories to draw on. And to be honest, the Asuran storyline is a key arc, so I really can't see them just dropping this storyline completely. I really am looking forward to seeing just what an advirsary Weir can be to the Atlantis team,and I hope the writers play that part up. :D Oooooh the angst potential at having to kill one of their own if it came to that. :DMaybe she kills Sheppard. They would destroy your whole reason for living:p:p. Sometimes I wonder if I tease Peg too much

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Maybe she kills Sheppard. They would destroy your whole reason for living:p:p. Sometimes I wonder if I tease Peg too much

You are Evil! :p

muffinnuffin
January 5th, 2008, 09:44 AM
I'm in two minds about it.

I'd like Elizabeth to be good, because I quite liked her character (but would like to see her get involved more) but I'd also like her to be evil so she can kick some ass. Her fight scenes in The Long Goodbye were awesome and I'd like to see some more.

Crackin' episode though. Spectacular return from the Christmas holidays! :D

Arlessiar
January 5th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Sam blew up a sun, Rodney blew up a solar system, together they destroy a planet - a dangerous duo. :D

Way to go Sam! Nobody speaks to people under her command like that. It's up to Sam to rein Rodney in, not Ellis. Exactly. I loved that scene, it was so great that Sam defended Rodney! Because this was not about defending what Rodney did, because he definitely wasn't right, and Ellis had the right to doubt him and to address that. But this was about defending what Rodney is (=a valuable member of the Atlantis team). Ellis went way over the top when talked to Rodney, and it was good to see that Sam gave him a dressing down for that. If at all then it's her who should reign Rodney in as he's her responsibilty (even if he's a civilian), but this is not Ellis' job, and frankly, he gave a very poor impression as a leader because he argued with Rodney on a very low level. As I said, Rodney wasn't right here, but this is no reason to insult him the way Ellis did, and I'm glad Sam addressed that issue.

She knows Rodney, knows, like we all do, that he overdoes it sometimes. That's of course not an excuse for everything he does, but you also need to know him for a while to know how he ticks and works and to see that he is indeed a genius and does good work. Yes, you have to put up with some probably quite annoying manners of him in order to have the advantages, but I don't think that's impossible. I think when you know him for a while and see all the good sides he has then it's not so hard to like him or even regard him as a friend. When you get to know him better and are able to put up with his (many) flaws (and no-one is without flaws, some just hide it better than others) then you can also look behind his mask and see what he's really like and you can be his friend or have him as your friend, I think. I hope that this is the case when it comes to Sheppard, Ronon, Teyla, Radek and the others, some of them don't often show their friendship and loyalty towards Rodney, but I hope they think of themselves as his friend. I'm pretty sure Rodney thinks of them as friends.

You know, it all comes down to this: Rodney can be a royal pain in the @ss sometimes, yes, but he is THEIR pain in the @ss! He's a part of the Atlantis crew, and he deserves their loyalty and friendship against someone who's not part of their team/community. So it's good that Sam defended him. She could talk to Rodney about what he did wrong later and in private, but in front of someone else the Atlantis team should stand as one.


That repli!cube McKay was working with looked like a PowerMac G4 cube.
Lol! :D
I also thought the whole scene looked a lot like that scene in DS9 in which Odo finds a changeling baby and tries to teach that baby how to take on different forms. He puts that little blob on a table and tries to show him how to shape like a cube.


OK, now we don't have to worry about feeding that Wraith anymore. Yes, at the beginning of the ep I've been wondering about that, thinking that the Wraith surely requires to feed again soon!


I am loving the Sam-Rodney technospeak stuff. I love it when Rodney and Zelenka do it and now Sam gets to play too. I know she's busy running Atlantis but maybe she can have some geek speak with McKay and Zelenka from time to time. I enjoy it. I wasn't fond of Carter coming over to Atlantis and I'd still prefer it if she wasn't there, but I have to admit that the way in which TPTB brought her in was subtle and careful and I like that. She slowly fits in, she doesn't just take over, and I think that's well done. She respects the work and opinion of those that have been there longer than she has. I feared that Rodney's role (and also Radek's) on Atlantis might be diminished by bringing the super-scientist Sam, who he also has a crush on, to Atlantis, but so far I liked the way in which they work together, all the 'two-geeks-scenes' in BMSR were good!


The only slight, very slight problem I had was with Teyla's baby revelation. I wish they had done it in an earlier episode as it seemed to get lost within all the awesomeness going on. It was a "blink and you missed it" scene. While it was fairly unimportant to the episode at hand, it still is a big change for Teyla's character. It just seemed rather unimportant in the middle of armadas, ships, Replicaters, etc. I feel the same about this scene, it felt a bit too unimportant among all that other urgent and stuff that was going on. Yet I somehow think it was better than a long cheesy team moment in an ep where there's lots of time to talk things out. Not that I mind team moments, quite the opposite, but I wonder how the reactions of the rest of the team would have been if there had been lots of time to talk about it, such a scene probably wouldn't have worked as well as this one did, even if its importance was a bit diminished in this very action-filled ep.

And Sheppard, well defeniatly jealous Jealous? Sorry, didn't see that and wouldn't know why he should be jealous, as she told no-one that she's pregnant. I think he was rather pissed and hurt (as her commanding officer and as her friend).

And wilLRodney find out when he gets the email? (I suspect he's finding out in between episodes). That really bothered me - why did no-one inform Rodney? He's part of the team! How will he find out about it? All the time I waited for someone to tell him (maybe Sheppard in the end), but it didn't happen. It will probably happen off-screen, next ep he will magically know it, and I'm a bit sad because of that, because I would have liked to see his reaction. Especially in regards of what he thinks about Teyla, about children and about motherhood (see Jeannie).


As for this debate about Sheppard's reaction, I think that he had every right to react that way, she's know she's been pregnant for two months and went off world and got stunned, beat up, shot at, etc. He is responsible for her safety as her CO while they're off world. Not only was she jeopardizing her babies life by remaining on active duty, but the lives of her teammates as well. At the same time I think he overreacted and didn't need to yell at her like he did, but every thing he said was valid. I also agree that it was with in Teyla's rights to keep her pregnancy private, but it was definitely irresponsible of her to continue to go offworld, and to explain to Sheppard and Carter why she would have to stop going offworld, she'd have had to tell them. I completely agree with this. I didn't find Sheppard's reaction 100% ok, but understandable. With that I mean, he was rather harsh and he could also have congratulated her. But in this second he just reacted to the news, as a team leader and a as friend. And the fact is that Teyla should have told him about this earlier. Sure, normally Teyla wouldn't have to tell anyone about the pregnancy, it's not an obligation and she would have been free to decide if she talks about it or not. And sure, Athosian women probably have to go through more difficult events when they are pregnantn than most women on Earth. Also, pregnancy is not an illness and Teyla is not a delicate thing that will break in the next moment. BUT! She's part of a military Atlantis off-world team, and that changes everything. During a mission so much could go wrong, and the risks for the child, for Teyla, or for the rest of the team to get hurt are too high. John is her commanding officer and responsible for her and the team, of course he's pissed that she didn't tell him about this earlier. He would never forgive himself if something happened to her, the baby or anyone else of his team because of this. And I guess as a friend (and we know he sees his team as some sort of family) he's probably also a bit sad or hurt that she didn't share the happy news with him or asks himself why she didn't trust him. She tells them about the child in a hallway during battle preparations, and only because she had to, otherwise she still wouldn't have said a thing - of course Sheppard was a bit pissed!

Sure, as I said, just as a friend it's not her duty to tell anyone about this, but you cannot help but wonder why she didn't talk about this earlier but decided to go through the diffcult first time all alone instead of with her friends. Maybe she's still confused about the news, couldn't cope with the upcoming changes in her life or with the fact that Kanan is missing. Maybe she was afraid how her friends would react, maybe she subconsciously feared a reaction like the one she got now, feared that (as it had to happen sooner or later) that she cannot go on missions any longer but has to stay behind, was afraid that a child forces her to change her whole life style (the life of a warrior) and wanted to delay all this as long as possible.

I hope we get another scene in which she and Sheppard (or the whole team) talk this over. A scene in which Sheppard explains his reaction and decision but also says that he's happy about the news.


and it's kinda cool to see Sheppard not be so "Kirk-ish" around a woman in the Pegasus galaxy. My boy was trying to get her digits... Not a big fan of the kirking, I still smiled at the cleavage scene, but the "can I call you - don't call me I'll call you" scene at the end made me cringe a bit.

Bye, A.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Originally Posted by Briangate78 http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=7521276#post7521276)Very well said. The larrin thing was so small it did not even effect the episode at all. Larrin is not a bad character, but she did not hurt the episode at all.

Did we see the same episode?

0:22:22
Larrin: "Sheppard that better not be you"
Sheppard:"Larrin?"
Larrin: "What the hell are you doing here?"
Sheppard:"What the hell are you doing here"?
Larrin: We picked up on 7 hives orbiting a single planet, seemed like something big was going down, so ....

0:40:40:
Sheppard: "Sorry you've lost a ship"
Larrin: "Well, they knew what they were getting into..."
Sheppard:"...but still...you will stick around let my guys check this place out?"
Larrin:"They already gave us a head start when they got us battle ready."

Did I miss a scene and McKay took Zelenka and his crew to fix the ship and got it ready for battle more than it was in Travelers?

jelgate
January 5th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Did we see the same episode? Did I miss a scene and McKay took Zelenka and his crew to fix the ship and got it ready for battle more than it was in Travelers?In the disscusion between Larin and Sheppard, he said he would send a team to help repair the ship. It was one of those off screen things. Combined Larin wasn't in the episode that much.

Pegasus_SGA
January 5th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Maybe she kills Sheppard. They would destroy your whole reason for living:p:p. Sometimes I wonder if I tease Peg too much

I could go for that, especially if we get a nice defib scene. Of course this time, the shirt needs to be removed. Only due to medical reasons of course. Oh and an intubation scene for Sheppy D, bless her she's been waiting for years for that. :P Oh babe trust me your teasing is still in its infancy. ;)


Maybe he didn't have a say in matter. There were more Travelers than Atlantians.

I'm sure he liked it though. ;)


Did we see the same episode?


Did I miss a scene and McKay took Zelenka and his crew to fix the ship and got it ready for battle more than it was in Travelers?

It depends. Did you watch the ep with the shark or without? ;) :P :D

They sent a maintenance crew to help witha few repairs before the big battle, but it wasn't McKay or Zelenka (much to McKay's dismay i'm sure) :D

ToasterOnFire
January 5th, 2008, 10:32 AM
It seems like TPTB think the leader's main job is to get into territorial fights with visiting IOA representatives and military officers. :S
You notice that too, huh? ;)


The larrin thing was so small it did not even effect the episode at all.
Then why did TPTB even have her in it at all? Her presence just made the ep a bigger mess.


I hope we get another scene in which she and Sheppard (or the whole team) talk this over. A scene in which Sheppard explains his reaction and decision but also says that he's happy about the news.
It would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath. TPTB have a habit of dropping out important conversations between eps and instead carrying on like it happened offscreen and therefore doesn't matter as much. They didn't even show how or why Teyla came to the conclusions to stay on the team and keep her pregnancy secret, just the results of her conclusions. There isn't real insight into a character if viewers don't know why they do what they do.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 10:39 AM
They sent a maintenance crew to help witha few repairs before the big battle, but it wasn't McKay or Zelenka (much to McKay's dismay i'm sure) :D

Was this self explanatory or that did happen? Let me guess, Larrin tied to the chair the maintenance team and they prepared the ship with ropes around them :P. Why didn't Shep tie Larrin to the chair in the conference room? Eye for an eye :P


Then why did TPTB even have her in it at all? Her presence just made the ep a bigger mess.


I agree with you. She has an Aurora ship, barely working and she takes on 7 hives. How does that work again?


What happened to Oberoth or that was self explanatory too?


Peggy, the shark was on the couch with me and he liked how McKay turned in Dr. Lee in this episode ;)

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 10:40 AM
In the disscusion between Larin and Sheppard, he said he would send a team to help repair the ship. It was one of those off screen things. Combined Larin wasn't in the episode that much.

Larin had very little screentime. I think Weir's 30 second scene had more of an impact for the future than Larrin, don't you agree?


You notice that too, huh? ;)


Then why did TPTB even have her in it at all? Her presence just made the ep a bigger mess.




I have to agree with you on this one. Larrin was almost pointless, except we got more ships in the battle because of her. ;)

runnerX
January 5th, 2008, 10:40 AM
i don't have words to explain this episode. it's better than better the best of the entire season. the scenes with the fleet and the space war are the best in the whole stargate atlantis so far. can't wait for the next episode. hope it will be just as good as this one. cheers for atlantis.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 10:45 AM
Larin had very little screentime. I think Weir's 30 second scene had more of an impact for the future than Larrin, don't you agree?

The most over done thing in the cinema industry. The good guys have this amazing plan, they blow everything up, excitement, CGI, you crap your seat and then at the end...you have the typical Stephen King approach....the bad guys live to fight and pillage another day. In our case Weir with an ascension wish :P. It is like I've seen NIAM tell the story of how the Ancients send their "deadliest" warships to eradicate the replicators and they fail. Same thing, but with the Tau'ri :P

FoolishPleasure
January 5th, 2008, 11:05 AM
I'm not blinded by the prettiness of special effects, so once all the noise and cool explosions are removed, the story itself was a bit meh.

Carter still doesn't fit in and her spat with Ellis shows it. Ellis was spot on with Rodney, and Carter should have put a stop to Rodney's useless babbling long before Ellis did. Carter knows Rodney more than anyone in the room, and she "should" have been aware he was simply spouting B.S. Just another example of how Carter's scientific brain was left behind on SG1.

The big Teyla reveal should have been stressful, but Sheppard came across as nasty. I just wanted poor Teyla to slap his face for his rudeness. But Ronon taking her hand and saying he understood was wonderful. If Teyla's beau ends up dead, I hope she hooks up with Ronon, who seems to understand and care for her more than anyone else on this show.

The Travellers. Sigh. Could have done without them. But then, bad girl Larrin is apparently just what Shep needs (and wants) these days. *shudders* Maybe they can sail off together and Lorne can take Shep's place on the show. *crossing fingers*

What worked best for me was the whole McKay/Zelenka/Fran scenes. Now that McKay knows how to create a Fran, maybe we will see her again. ;)

CG Wraith was cool as ever. Hoping we haven't seen the last of him. Very cool dude!

Ending with Weir. Is it real? Or is she Memorex? Guess the writers will have to bring her back after all to answer a few questions. What IS she up to? Who IS she anyway? Is she evil or good? And who is her tailor? ;)

BTW - while Carter and Sheppard were zipping around the galaxy on their way to a huge battle, just WHO was in charge of Atlantis? What if all the Atlantis leadership had been killed? With the Wraith, Travellers, knowing where Atlantis is, if the Replicators had won the fight, they would have known as well. What then?

Best part of the show - we were not subjected to Keller's whiny, fraidy cat personality (in her fantabulous bumble bee yellow striped uniform) explaining that there was nothing she could do. An episode without her, is a good episode indeed!

funks
January 5th, 2008, 11:27 AM
When they first came out of hyperspace they used rail guns to destroy the reps ships which I can't believe at all as our rail guns suck

From the way the asgard weaponry works during the last ep of sg-1 against the ORI. It destabilizes the shields which would make it easy for rail guns to take anything out.

Arlessiar
January 5th, 2008, 11:45 AM
Best part of the show - we were not subjected to Keller's whiny, fraidy cat personality (in her fantabulous bumble bee yellow striped uniform) explaining that there was nothing she could do. An episode without her, is a good episode indeed! Uh, now that you mentioned it I noticed for the first time that she wasn't in that ep at all. Hmm, seems as if I didn't miss her the slightest bit. Wonder why... ;)

("Keller" is the German word for "cellar" - I think that fits. ;))

Bye, A.

Pegasus_SGA
January 5th, 2008, 11:45 AM
Was this self explanatory or that did happen? Let me guess, Larrin tied to the chair the maintenance team and they prepared the ship with ropes around them :P. Why didn't Shep tie Larrin to the chair in the conference room? Eye for an eye :P

What was self explanatory? Some of the techie guys helping Larrin's lot? It was said at the end when Shep and Larrin were flirting. It didn't say who it was though.

Why didn't Shep tie Larrin up? Because maybe she likes to be a dominatrix. ;) or Mr G, thought it would be a nice scene for the whumpers. :P




I agree with you. She has an Aurora ship, barely working and she takes on 7 hives. How does that work again?

What happened to Oberoth or that was self explanatory too?


isn't that nice of her? Some people are just kind natured like that and will help anyone. :D



Peggy, the shark was on the couch with me and he liked how McKay turned in Dr. Lee in this episode ;)

You know babe, I lost a few gazillion brain cells drinking over New year, so pardon me for asking, but WHAT??? :lol:


Larin had very little screentime. I think Weir's 30 second scene had more of an impact for the future than Larrin, don't you agree?

I have to agree with you on this one. Larrin was almost pointless, except we got more ships in the battle because of her. ;)

I think Weir just opened a huge can of worms. Woohoooooo!! And even though it was only a brief moment she was on, I definately think her part was more of an impact than Larrin's :D




The big Teyla reveal should have been stressful, but Sheppard came across as nasty. I just wanted poor Teyla to slap his face for his rudeness. But Ronon taking her hand and saying he understood was wonderful. If Teyla's beau ends up dead, I hope she hooks up with Ronon, who seems to understand and care for her more than anyone else on this show.

I think he was just hurt that she hadn't confided in him. And because of that words were said. I didn't think they were particularly harsh, but he did upset her. She knew it was going to be hard telling them, and how she was going to tell them, but they really were words said in the heat of the moment, nothing more. Besides if Shep hadn't got pissed off, we would never have had that really sweet scene between her and Ronon. :D


BTW - while Carter and Sheppard were zipping around the galaxy on their way to a huge battle, just WHO was in charge of Atlantis? What if all the Atlantis leadership had been killed? With the Wraith, Travellers, knowing where Atlantis is, if the Replicators had won the fight, they would have known as well. What then?

You know I wondered that. :lol:

Linzi
January 5th, 2008, 11:58 AM
This episode has to be one of my favourites of season 4, and one of my favourite cliffhanger resolution episodes of all time!

I loved it all. Quite simply, it was excellent, and kudos to Martin Gero for doing such an wonderful job here.

I like so much, that I won't remember everything that I was so impressed with here, but I really loved the story and the way the replicators were dealt with. I loved the CGI, and really appreciated the guest cast. There were so many threads in this story and they all came together and paid off here.

So, let's start at the beginning.

Sheppard: Loved him here. I really like his relationship with Carter. She really respects him, and he her, and I enjoy seeing that on screen. It's a truly professional relationship, and I think they'll have a good friendship too. Sheppard has really come into his own in season 4, and I'm delighted with his development in season 4. This Sheppard fan is pleased! :)

Loved the Sheppard/McKay interaction here. Loved the way Sheppard tells Rodney to calm down after Ellis was so rude, and that Rodney does back down. I don't know why, but I really enjoyed that they have that sort of friendship, and that Sheppard can calm down Rodney like that. Loved the teasing too, and the fact they have late suppers together. Bless!

Sheppard's reaction to Teyla was very in character for me. He was obviously shocked and hurt. I think Ronon sort of had an idea, but not Sheppard - he was clueless! He was stunned Teyla didn't trust him enough to tell him about the pregnancy and angry that she and her baby had been put in danger and that he could have unwittingly ordered Teyla to do something which could have hurt her unborn child.


Sheppard didn't relieve Teyla of duty, as some have said here, he said 'active duty', which means no dangerous away missions presumably, not that she's not allowed to do anything non-combative or keep her position on the team for certain things, I'm sure. His decision was right. Her child could be hurt, and complicate many things.

McKay. He was awesome in this. I loved his technobabble. Spot on for me. Loved that he created Fran and then cared what happened to her, though he'd deny it if asked! Loved his outrage at Ellis saying he wasn't a man!!! :eek: I was annoyed for Rodney too!!!!!

Ronon. Really liked his care for Teyla - I went 'Awwwww!'. He is like a supportive little brother to her, and I think she needed that. He knows her well, and they have a true sibling bond, which is fantastic to see. Liked how annoyed and mistrusting he was towards Todd too. He's a great character, IMO.

Carter. Well, I liked her before. She's my favourite female in the Stargate franchise. But, wow, she has shown what a good leader she is. Taking control of the situation, showing she's an equal to the other two Colonel's as well as showing she's boss of Atlantis now. I LOVED how she took Ellis down a peg and protected McKay. That loyalty was wonderful to see. That was so well done. AT was fantastic throughout the episode, and I'm so pleased she's on the show. She really has brought a new dynamic to the show for me, and I'm delighted with how TPTB have handled all of this. I'm also glad Carter was more present here too. Carter and AT feel a real part of the show now for me, and I'm so delighted with this.

Teyla. I felt for her. She was wrong not to reveal her pregnancy, but I understand why and sympathise with her. It's so personal and so awkward and she's upset her partner/boyfriend is missing. She's going to have some difficult times ahead, I think. I did notice that Rachel looked really pretty in this episode. Positively blooming. :)

Radek was his usual wonderful self. He's a great supporting character.

Larrin was good. I had no problems with her at all. I felt she was necessary to the episode, because Sheppard needed her ships. As Peg, I'm confused as to why Sheppard was tied up, but, hey, I'm not complaining! Perhaps Martin Gero has been reading the whump thread? :lol:

Ellis was great. He is a brusque no nonsense military man. He was out of line being so rude to Rodney, but he was put in his place.

Caldwell was good too. Same as ever really. Good, solid character.

Fran was adorable. How strange I should feel so attached to her. She was a replicator created by McKay, yet she was lovely. Liked that she was so excited to play her part in the mission.

Todd was excellent. I really like him. I thought his interaction with McKay was really well done. His face as McKay told him about his daring do's was priceless - yes, McKay had told him before! :lol: So funny. Great comic relief. Loved that he threatened to feed on McKay. I don't think he was serious, but I couldn't really be sure! I hope he's going to be around for some future episodes. I'm thinking yes.

So, I loved everything. It was a well paced, exciting episode. It had everything. Tension, wonderful character interactions and moments, wonderful space battles, humour. What more could I ask for in an episode. It even had some cool Shep whump too!

Now. Weir. I wasn't surprised and I saw this coming. I have no idea if she's good or bad or what. I'd be ok if she's brought back next season for a guest spot where we find out what's going on, but for me, in a way, she can never go back to who she was now. That Weir is dead. I think the one we saw is a Repli Weir type character, and not a clone. But I can't be sure, obviously. It'll be interesting to see if this storyline is advanced in season 5.

So, good job all round. Wonderful start to the back half of season 4. I look forward to SOW! 10/10 from me. :)

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 12:00 PM
Holy crap! I wondered if an mid season two parter could ever top "The Storm" and "The Eye" and they sure as hell did it. This was definatly the best episode of the season. JM promised the best special effects of the season and he sure did it. Christopher Heyerdahl was again top notch as Todd. I loved the implications of us making an ally of the Wraith and this time it could actually be a good thing. Loved seeing Jill again she truly is a great character. I never doubted Carter but she surely has come into her own now. I loved her standing up to Ellis. I was totally shocked at seeing Weir at the end. I really wonder if she will be an ally or enemy. Perfect ep well done guys. 12/10.;):jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07:: :jack_new_anime07:

Shan Bruce Lee
January 5th, 2008, 12:00 PM
I'm not blinded by the prettiness of special effects, so once all the noise and cool explosions are removed, the story itself was a bit meh.

What do you mean by "blinded by the prettiness"? You don't think visuals are important in a visual medium? It might just be the way you worded it that it comes off like that. Personally I loved the story.

All this stuff about the way Shep handled Teyla's pregnancy doesn't make sense to me. Do people think it's a good idea for a pregnant woman to be fighting in a war? I think he was pretty damn reasonable considering how irresponsible she was.

jelgate
January 5th, 2008, 12:04 PM
I think Teyla was left in charge. In the past when Sheppars and Weir (now Carter) are around she would lead Atlantis. She was never seen in the space battle which makes me believe that she was keeping Atlantis safe. Don't worry Peg, its hard for whumpers to think rationally.

Pegasus_SGA
January 5th, 2008, 12:05 PM
@ Linz Great post! And people say my posts are like novels. :lol: I think you just took the prize. :D

I also liked the bit in the PJ when Ronon refused to quit staring at the Wraith. i looks could kill. :lol:

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 12:10 PM
I'm not blinded by the prettiness of special effects, so once all the noise and cool explosions are removed, the story itself was a bit meh.
I disagree. This was a well thought out story and top notch ep.


Carter still doesn't fit in and her spat with Ellis shows it. Ellis was spot on with Rodney, and Carter should have put a stop to Rodney's useless babbling long before Ellis did. Carter knows Rodney more than anyone in the room, and she "should" have been aware he was simply spouting B.S. Just another example of how Carter's scientific brain was left behind on SG1.
Wrong. Ellis was out of line. His point was spot on yes however his attitude was improper and not his place to do what he did. Carter was spot on not Ellis. He should not have done what he did. Carter showed her leadership skills in this and proves she was the right man for the job.


The big Teyla reveal should have been stressful, but Sheppard came across as nasty. I just wanted poor Teyla to slap his face for his rudeness.
You know this is really funny. People say that SGA is not realistic yet when they do act realistic people still gripe. Shepard was correct she should have told him right away. He folowed procedure to the letter. He wasnt rude it just came off that way. They were under alot of stress so the snappiness is understandable. She was putting herself and baby at risk so Shep was correct.


But Ronon taking her hand and saying he understood was wonderful. If Teyla's beau ends up dead, I hope she hooks up with Ronon, who seems to understand and care for her more than anyone else on this show.
I liked that too but he is not the only on that cares for her.


The Travellers. Sigh. Could have done without them. But then, bad girl Larrin is apparently just what Shep needs (and wants) these days. *shudders* Maybe they can sail off together and Lorne can take Shep's place on the show. *crossing fingers*
Disagree on all points.



CG Wraith was cool as ever. Hoping we haven't seen the last of him. Very cool dude!
Agreed.


Ending with Weir. Is it real? Or is she Memorex? Guess the writers will have to bring her back after all to answer a few questions. What IS she up to? Who IS she anyway? Is she evil or good? And who is her tailor? ;)
I can't wait to find out.


BTW - while Carter and Sheppard were zipping around the galaxy on their way to a huge battle, just WHO was in charge of Atlantis? What if all the Atlantis leadership had been killed? With the Wraith, Travellers, knowing where Atlantis is, if the Replicators had won the fight, they would have known as well. What then?
Lorne most likely but it's not important to show that.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 5th, 2008, 12:11 PM
I also liked the bit in the PJ when Ronon refused to quit staring at the Wraith. i looks could kill. :lol:

:) maybe because they almost always prove him right when he says they shouldn't be trusting them

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Holy crap! I wondered if an mid season two parter could ever top "The Storm" and "The Eye" and they sure as hell did it. This was definatly the best episode of the season. JM promised the best special effects of the season and he sure did it. Christopher Heyerdahl was again top notch as Todd. I loved the implications of us making an ally of the Wraith and this time it could actually be a good thing. Loved seeing Jill again she truly is a great character. I never doubted Carter but she surely has come into her own now. I loved her standing up to Ellis. I was totally shocked at seeing Weir at the end. I really wonder if she will be an ally or enemy. Perfect ep well done guys. 12/10.;):jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07:: :jack_new_anime07:

I agree, my favorite mid-season had been "The Eye" I believe they just topped it. TMC was a nice lead in episode and the we got this one.

The best part is, Weir's character has been left so open, that it is actually a cliffhanger.

I hope Martin Gero and Joe M can shine some more light onto what is to become in Season 5. :)

There ya go..........Weir is alive! HA!

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 12:12 PM
I think Teyla was left in charge. In the past when Sheppars and Weir (now Carter) are around she would lead Atlantis. She was never seen in the space battle which makes me believe that she was keeping Atlantis safe. Don't worry Peg, its hard for whumpers to think rationally.

I don't think so. Most likely it was Lorne.

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 12:13 PM
I agree, my favorite mid-season had been "The Eye" I believe they just topped it. TMC was a nice lead in episode and the we got this one.

The best part is, Weir's character has been left so open, that it is actually a cliffhanger.

I hope Martin Gero and Joe M can shine some more light onto what is to become in Season 5. :)

There ya go..........Weir is alive! HA!

Agreed. However who will join me in an angry mob if they pull a Ford?

Linzi
January 5th, 2008, 12:18 PM
@ Linz Great post! And people say my posts are like novels. :lol: I think you just took the prize. :D

I also liked the bit in the PJ when Ronon refused to quit staring at the Wraith. i looks could kill. :lol:
I nearly just copied your original post here and said 'DITTO!' :lol: But I thought, no, that would be lazy, let's see if I can write more than Peggy! ;)

I loved the way Ronon stared at Todd too. That was so funny.

BAMSR has really sort of taken my breath away. It just had everything I wanted in it. Well, perhaps not everything, but I was very pleased with what I was given...;)

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Agreed. However who will join me in an angry mob if they pull a Ford?

Oh I will, but I don't think we will have to. This is nothing like how they left off with Ford. It showed the viewer that Weir will be back, and to leave them in question if she is good or evil and the real Weir. That is good writing right there!

mhadjiosif
January 5th, 2008, 12:23 PM
I thought this episode was AMAZING, but I do have a few problems/questions:

1) Rodney managed to beam into the core room, hack into the computers and gain control of the power grid, and was all set to overload a whole bunch of ZPMs. The only reason he wasn't able to finish was because the repli-blob crushed the power conduits. Considering the number of times he's hacked into the replicators before, including once to overload another ZPM, you'd think the replicators would have put in some better security. I can understand that he was able hack into the core room the first time (S4 episode: Lifeline), the replicators were caught off guard, but there is no way a single human (no matter how much of a genius), could hack into a replicator computer that controled vital functions (such as the ZPMs) after the replicators had a chance to beef up security. In this episode, Rodney hacked the computers to blow up a bunch of ZPM's in a minute or two! NOT realisitic.

2) The destruction of replicators followed by the emergence of repli-weir mirrors the replicator plotline from Stargate SG-1 with repli-carter. In all fairness, we don't know for sure if the plotline will continue in that direction, but it seems likely.

3) The destruction of the replicator ships in orbit was to easy. The first one or two could be explained by being caught off guard, but after that it should have been much harder. It seemed like every time a replicator ship was hit it exploded it seconds. WHERE WERE THE SHIELDS!!!


A few other notes:

1) The fact that Rodney, Ronan, and the marines were able to beam into the core room without being blocked by the shield is understandable. The beamed almost imediatly after dropping out of hyperspace, and we know that Atlantis's shield takes a few seconds to completely form. That is, after all, how the replicator's beam weapon manged to damage the city in S3 Episode: First Strike. They could have beamed in before the shield finished forming. It is also possible, however, that the core room was not protected by any shield. While the replicators do emualte the Anicients, even building their own Atlantis-style city-ships, the replicator homeworld was much more. It was essentially one big planet-wide city made up of interconnected towers and interspersed with city-ships. The city ships may have had shields, but the other parts of the planet-wide city may not have. There was no evidence of any shield use on the planet during the battle (at least on the parts of the planet shown), so it is possible that those sections had no shields.

2) The scene where the nanites in orbit were sucked down the the repli-blob on the planet was great. Does anyone else think it looked kind of like scene from Lost City (SG-1) where the drones were fired, but in reverse? Instead of multiple streams of drones traveling up, multple streams of nanites traveling down? It looked very similar to me, but still great.

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Oh I will, but I don't think we will have to. This is nothing like how they left off with Ford. It showed the viewer that Weir will be back, and to leave them in question if she is good or evil and the real Weir. That is good writing right there!

Agreed. Personally when it comes to Ford I truly don't care. I liked how they brought in back in Lost Boys and The Hive they were good eps but FOrd was not very interesting to me. Not so with Weir. They truly have finally made me love the character.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 12:31 PM
:eek: WOW, awesome ep! I was waiting for this particular ep right from the start of s4 and it definitely wasn't a disappointed

First of all just to see both the Apollo and Daedalus in orbit together is great imo. by then I knew this would be one hell of a ride. at the same time I was really glad to finally see Sam again (can I just say how much I like her hair? IDK why but I just do) because I really missed her in previous eps even if she wasn't needed. the scene where all the Colonel's greet eachother and Rodney goes like 'Seriously?' was so funny, classic Rodney. in the meeting Sam kicks Ellis' ass for talking like that to McKay (which most of us already guessed would happen), I thought it was a well done scene. it certainly made clear who was in charge (at least in Atlantis). way to go Carter

next we get to see both ships destroy a Replicator Aurora class ship which was really cool. I just love those beam weapons, can't thank Thor and his buddies enough for them. Rodney and the Wraith are still working in his lab and I thought it was kinda funny that Todd was already bored by McKay's stories. he'd been captured how long ago?lol his idea though is very interesting, Sam may have been able to say more about this since she experienced the original weapon first hand in 'NO' but it wasn't necessary so no problem. I also got the feeling that she's a little out of the loop concerning whatever scientific stuff's going on because her priorities have changed. still she's able to understand quite quickly what Rodney tries to explain to her and Shep. that was well handled imo

us contacting the Wraith and forming an alliance was nothing new. I wasn't sure about seeing Larrin again but due to less and thus more important scenes her character became less annoying. though I still don't get why Shep was tied up, I mean it was us who agreed to come aboard, it just really bugged me. anyway they agree of course and I was glad to finally have Teyla tell Ronon and Shep about her condition and who the father is. Shep's reaction is understandable and will certainly affect upcoming eps (well that's no surprise)

then Rodney creates Fran (interesting name, I wonder why he chose it) who of course is this totally hot chick. haha I could've guessed this would come out of it. and FINALLY we get to see 'the biggest space battle we've ever done' as JM put it. and it really was! I would've loved to see Oberoth but hey, can't have everything. the planet getting destroyed was the final scene of this awesome sequence. and then of course we see Weir again, um no I mean RepliWeir. by this point I had completely forgotten about her/it so it was really a surprise to me. from the sound of the music and how she/it says 'we can finally get to work' I bet this is evil RepliWeir (whatever she/it means by this sentence). this opens up a lot of possibilities for a return in s5 but an evil RepliWeir could really be interesting imo

all in all a very cool ep, an interesting story and we see both the Daedalus and the Apollo in action. can't wait for SoW ;)

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Agreed. Personally when it comes to Ford I truly don't care. I liked how they brought in back in Lost Boys and The Hive they were good eps but FOrd was not very interesting to me. Not so with Weir. They truly have finally made me love the character.

What they did to Ford was great. He was horrible in Season one, imo. Him being drugged up on Wraith enzyme was the best thing for his character. I like Ronon a lot more, so I'm glad that change was made.

As per Weir, I do not see them ending her character here. It is just too much of a cliffhanger to not continue. If and when it continues there is likely enough material for several eps. So if you don't like Weir, sorry she'll be back. ;) :p

jelgate
January 5th, 2008, 12:36 PM
What they did to Ford was great. He was horrible in Season one, imo. Him being drugged up on Wraith enzyme was the best thing for his character. I like Ronon a lot more, so I'm glad that change was made.As per Weir, I do not see them ending her character here. It is just too much of a cliffhanger to not continue. If and when it continues there is likely enough material for several eps. So if you don't like Weir, sorry she'll be back. ;) :pThe thing with Ford is that we don't know if he is alive or dead. We know for a fact that Weir is alive. I am 95% sure we will see her in future seasons

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 12:37 PM
What they did to Ford was great. He was horrible in Season one, imo. Him being drugged up on Wraith enzyme was the best thing for his character. I like Ronon a lot more, so I'm glad that change was made.

As per Weir, I do not see them ending her character here. It is just too much of a cliffhanger to not continue. If and when it continues there is likely enough material for several eps. So if you don't like Weir, sorry she'll be back. ;) :p

I agree, the smart thing would be to continue her story. however I really don't see this being the real Weir, it certainly was RepliWeir imo. also 3-4 eps in s5 are more than enough to continue this arc, otherwise it'd become way too important

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:37 PM
:eek: WOW, awesome ep! I was waiting for this particular ep right from the start of s4 and it definitely wasn't a disappointed

First of all just to see both the Apollo and Daedalus in orbit together is great imo. by then I knew this would be one hell of a ride. at the same time I was really glad to finally see Sam again (can I just say how much I like her hair? IDK why but I just do) because I really missed her in previous eps even if she wasn't needed. the scene where all the Colonel's greet eachother and Rodney goes like 'Seriously?' was so funny, classic Rodney. in the meeting Sam kicks Ellis' ass for talking like that to McKay (which most of us already guessed would happen), I thought it was a well done scene. it certainly made clear who was in charge (at least in Atlantis). way to go Carter

next we get to see both ships destroy a Replicator Aurora class ship which was really cool. I just love those beam weapons, can't thank Thor and his buddies enough for them. Rodney and the Wraith are still working in his lab and I thought it was kinda funny that Todd was already bored by McKay's stories. he'd been captured how long ago?lol his idea though is very interesting, Sam may have been able to say more about this since she experienced the original weapon first hand in 'NO' but it wasn't necessary so no problem. I also got the feeling that she's a little out of the loop concerning whatever scientific stuff's going on because her priorities have changed. still she's able to understand quite quickly what Rodney tries to explain to her and Shep. that was well handled imo

us contacting the Wraith and forming an alliance was nothing new. I wasn't sure about seeing Larrin again but due to less and thus more important scenes her character became less annoying. though I still don't get why Shep was tied up, I mean it was us who agreed to come aboard, it just really bugged me. anyway they agree of course and I was glad to finally have Teyla tell Ronon and Shep about her condition and who the father is. Shep's reaction is understandable and will certainly affect upcoming eps (well that's no surprise)

then Rodney creates Fran (interesting name, I wonder why he chose it) who of course is this totally hot chick. haha I could've guessed this would come out of it. and FINALLY we get to see 'the biggest space battle we've ever done' as JM put it. and it really was! I would've loved to see Oberoth but hey, can't have everything. the planet getting destroyed was the final scene of this awesome sequence. and then of course we see Weir again, um no I mean RepliWeir. by this point I had completely forgotten about her/it so it was really a surprise to me. from the sound of the music and how she/it says 'we can finally get to work' I bet this is evil RepliWeir (whatever she/it means by this sentence). this opens up a lot of possibilities for a return in s5 but an evil RepliWeir could really be interesting imo

all in all a very cool ep, an interesting story and we see both the Daedalus and the Apollo in action. can't wait for SoW ;)

Oh yeah! The best episode of the season. :cool:


See I think it's the Real Weir who is mostly human and part replicator, also I don't think she is evil. The music is likely a throw off to make us believe that.

Also, sadly if they make her a replic-copy that is evil, even I will say it is a SG-1 rip-off from Season 8 and Repli-Carter. So I don't think they plan to go down that road.

Oh and SOW looks awesome also! :p

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:39 PM
I agree, the smart thing would be to continue her story. however I really don't see this being the real Weir, it certainly was RepliWeir imo. also 3-4 eps in s5 are more than enough to continue this arc, otherwise it'd become way too important

LOL, read my above post. It is likely the Real Weir or at least a human Flesh and Blood one.

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:40 PM
The thing with Ford is that we don't know if he is alive or dead. We know for a fact that Weir is alive. I am 95% sure we will see her in future seasons

People are saying this leaves her character to never return. Um ok. No if TMC was her last ep, then I say yeah probably. This episode the last 30 secs was basically the writer's and producer's saying, She'll be back, but it's up to you to decide what kinda role she will have. :)

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 12:41 PM
The thing with Ford is that we don't know if he is alive or dead. We know for a fact that Weir is alive. I am 95% sure we will see her in future seasons

Ford is probably dead. no it was never confirmed but come on do you really believe he's alive? and he certainly won't see him in any future eps. also we do not know that Weir's alive, RepliKeller said she's dead. whether you believe her or not, well that's open for discussion. I too think we'll see Weir again, but this most certainly was RepliWeir imo

muffinnuffin
January 5th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Agreed. However who will join me in an angry mob if they pull a Ford?


Agreed. Personally when it comes to Ford I truly don't care. I liked how they brought in back in Lost Boys and The Hive they were good eps but FOrd was not very interesting to me. Not so with Weir. They truly have finally made me love the character.

On both of those - Count me in :) She's too good to waste :D :weiranime17:

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 12:47 PM
Oh yeah! The best episode of the season. :cool:


See I think it's the Real Weir who is mostly human and part replicator, also I don't think she is evil. The music is likely a throw off to make us believe that.

Also, sadly if they make her a replic-copy that is evil, even I will say it is a SG-1 rip-off from Season 8 and Repli-Carter. So I don't think they plan to go down that road.

Oh and SOW looks awesome also! :p


LOL, read my above post. It is likely the Real Weir or at least a human Flesh and Blood one.

I still believe this isn't the real Weir. why is she working with the other replicators? I doubt the real Weir would do that. like you said it's most likely a human flesh and blood Weir. this would make her another DupliWeir, so not the real one. RepliCarter was a different story imo, this does in no way remind me of her/it sry


People are saying this leaves her character to never return. Um ok. No if TMC was her last ep, then I say yeah probably. This episode the last 30 secs was basically the writer's and producer's saying, She'll be back, but it's up to you to decide what kinda role she will have. :)

if TBTB are smart they'll bring her back, however no more than a few eps. this is an interesting story and I'd like to see what happens next but then again there are a lot of other things worth exploring

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:49 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/marcm1978/Weir.jpg

"Wait'll they get a load of me!"

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 12:51 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/marcm1978/Weir.jpg

"Wait'll they get a load of me!"

look at the pic. you really believe this is the real Weir? no way dude

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 12:52 PM
look at the pic. you really believe this is the real Weir? no way dude

Did you ever think it's the real Weir and she is being controlled by nanites?

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 12:54 PM
What they did to Ford was great. He was horrible in Season one, imo. Him being drugged up on Wraith enzyme was the best thing for his character. I like Ronon a lot more, so I'm glad that change was made.
Agreed. I just have to ignore him in season 1. Though I love it when he tells Kavanaugh to record his griping in private in Letters From Pegasus. Ronon is indeed far better.


As per Weir, I do not see them ending her character here. It is just too much of a cliffhanger to not continue. If and when it continues there is likely enough material for several eps. So if you don't like Weir, sorry she'll be back. ;) :p
Agreed. I like her but didn't really care one way or another as to whether she stayed or left. However now I really like the direction they have taken and can't wait to see what direction they take.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 12:55 PM
Did you ever think it's the real Weir and she is being controlled by nanites?

um no not really because that would make her RepliWeir which was probably killed/destroyed by Oberoth some time after Lifeline. of course there are other replicators on that ship so theoretically this could be another RepliWeir. either that or DupliWeir but certainly not the real Weir imo

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 12:57 PM
look at the pic. you really believe this is the real Weir? no way dude

I don't know it's hard to say but most likely no it's most likely Repli Weir.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 12:58 PM
I don't know it's hard to say but most likely no it's most likely Repli Weir.

or another DupliWeir

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 01:00 PM
or another DupliWeir

True.

Briangate78
January 5th, 2008, 01:02 PM
True.


or another DupliWeir


I don't know it's hard to say but most likely no it's most likely Repli Weir.

First off, let's just get confirmation that Torri is returning next season, then we will have months and months to speculate if this is the real Weir or not. :p :D

Pocus
January 5th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Jumping in without reading the rest of the thread:


I really enjoyed the whole ep. It was busy and energetic. I loved seeing Science Carter make a couple of appearances. She was the one who understood what McKay was trying to do when describing the pulling together of the nanites. I did like when she told Ellis not to talk to her people as he did. He overstepped his bounds and she had every right to remind him. I would have been a bit disappointed if she hadn't said anything. Yes, Rodney is hard to deal with, but as a visiting officer, it is not Ellis' right to do that in a meeting with Rodney's direct supervisor. It is almost a slap at Sam's leadership.

Teyla's reveal was nicely done. Of course the big belly that was supposedly hiding behind the weapon was a distraction. I loved Sheppard's reaction. He didn't seem jealous or disappointed. His anger reaction seemed to more directed at his perception of her seeming irresponsibility towards her unborn child. She knowingly went out on dangerous missions. He was angry that a member of his team would conceal a condition that is so important. When he was talking to Sam, he had a bit more of the "how could she not tell her friends this news" attitude. but when he was talking ot Teyla, it was more team leader to team member.

Ronon's reaction was great too. You could tell the two of them have spent quality time together because he knew who the Father was and showed his support right away. He will help her through this and help her find the father.

Larrin was a meh. She just doesn't come off right to me. She acts like a big know it all and a tough seasoned warrior leader or at least that is how she is supposed to be. She is a bit conceited IMO. She uses her "ass-ets" way too much. Her comment to Sheppard's comment about it being nice to see hera again just smacked a bit of "yeah I think I'm hot"

I really liked Fran and was disappointed that she had to go. Don't get me wrong. I liked that she did her job and there wasn't some disappointing twist that went bad for our friends. I think my Hubby would have gone ballistic then.

He wasn't thrilled with them bringing back the replicators because he hates having an enemy that seemingly can't be defeated. He ended up liking the solution and even liked the last 30 seconds because it is an unknown.

I asked Hubby if at the end he thought it was RepliLiz or another copy. He thinks it is the real Elizabeth is going to continue the Ascension hunt. That would make sense to me too. How else can she be free from the Nanites that are keeping her alive? IMO She has two choices:

1) live as she is knowing that she is not all herself or
2) continue hunting for the clue to Ascension and become more than she is.

I think she would prefer to Ascend. She always had a fascination for it.

Graphics were great! Loved the blob of Replicators. All in all, just loved the ep. It kept me interested and entertained. It set up some good questions like: Now what with the Wraith, Elizabeth and the rest of the Replicators? Did Todd survive and how will he interact with Atlantis? What will the relationship between the Travelers and Atlantis be like? Tune in next week. Same Gate Channel. Same Gate time!! **slinks away after that**

Now off to read the whole thread!

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 01:05 PM
First off, let's just get confirmation that Torri is returning next season, then we will have months and months to speculate if this is the real Weir or not. :p :D

Good point. Though I hope she isn't full time as I don't want Carter to leave.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:07 PM
First off, let's just get confirmation that Torri is returning next season, then we will have months and months to speculate if this is the real Weir or not. :p :D

well...yes but it sure doesn't look like the real Weir. anyway what I'm trying to say is :indeed:

Klenotka
January 5th, 2008, 01:07 PM
Well, I didn´t expect anything after the big nothing in S4. But I was nice suprised.
It was little rushed, true. But I liked most of the parts.
I didn´t like how they wrote McKay and Sheppard here. Why do they have such imbalance in writing characters? They were both great in Miller´s Crossing and here? Sheppard didn´t show any support to Rodney and Rodney was again...I don´t know, the McKay from S2 and S3. I want back good old McKay from S1. And I want Sheppard back.
I didn´t like Larrin here. I kind of liked her in Travelers, even I think that the episode was one of the weakest. But maybe it was just how they wrote it. Why did Sheppard look her under her shirt? Why did she tie him down again? It was what...fun? I didn´t think it was funny. Sheppard should finally grow up as a military commander, not to flirt and ignore advice from his collegues. How he opened the Jumper door, what did he expect? Wraith with flowers and band?

Those things spoiled it a little. It was rushed and the story was confusing as in the rest of S4 but it was at least good to watch. The opening scene with "colonels" was great :)
I suprisingly liked Sam, how she backed up Rodney. Ellis was right, true, but, it was the way how he said that. He can´t say this to someone, who is under command of someone else. And, Rodney is a scientist and is always looking for scientific solutions. And I, again, did mind that Sheppard didn´t support him there.

I am so glad that Caldwell is back, but it´s too bad that he had so few lines to say. I like him much more than Ellis.

I liked Fran and Rodney´s attitude towards her. It was nice sub-plot.
It´s too bad that Fran had to leave. She was there only five minutes and I started to like her. Teyla is there for four years and I still don´t like her.
I liked how Sheppard said to Teyla that she should have told him. No matter what, he is her commander and has right to know this. It´s her baby and her health but she is part of the team. I liked Ronon´s reaction "don´t look at me" thought :D

I hope that this isn´t last time we saw Elizabeth. I like Elizabeth and I want to see her! The interesting thing was her uniform. It had the same stripes as the new Atlantis uniforms which makes me think that she probably isn´t enemy. It is probably some thing about ascension and Niam´s legacy or what.

The battle was good, I expected something longer, but to see Daedalus and Apollo together was great.

Dr Weir
January 5th, 2008, 01:08 PM
I was disappointed with the episode, the team lose the resident wraith, how replicators were destroyed was boring and too ridiculous and top it off Elizabeth appearing at the end with a fraction of replicators didn't make any sense. She was never even shown going off world! SGA has become far too random and far fetched for me.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Good point. Though I hope she isn't full time as I don't want Carter to leave.

Carter doesn't have to leave if Weir comes back (and this is still very unlikely imo). however TH already said she didn't want to come back full time so no problem there. I think we'll see her again in s5, probably for 3-4 eps but no more than that

Rine
January 5th, 2008, 01:11 PM
Hello--new person here. I think I have to watch the episode again. Got a question.

When Weir said that she didn't have to worry about them "looking over their shoulders anymore," was she refering to the Asurans or the Atlanteans?

When I first heard her say it, I thought that the ease of the destruction of the Asurans was deliberate and now they can rebuild without having to worry about the Atlanteans bothering them. But now that I read through a lot of the posts in this thread, I think I missed something along the line. :o

Over all, I thought this was a great episode. I thought Sheppard's reaction to Teyla's pregnancy was very real and completely in character. I felt bad for Fran--I thought she was a sweet and nice character. Enjoyed the battle scenes too. Good episode!

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:14 PM
Hello--new person here. I think I have to watch the episode again. Got a question.

When Weir said that she didn't have to worry about them "looking over their shoulders anymore," was she refering to the Asurans or the Atlanteans?

When I first heard her say it, I thought that the ease of the destruction of the Asurans was deliberate and now they can rebuild without having to worry about the Atlanteans bothering them. But now that I read through a lot of the posts in this thread, I think I missed something along the line. :o

I think she meant the Asurans. this imo shows that it wasn't the real Weir because why would she say such a thing? it wouldn't make any sense


Over all, I thought this was a great episode. I thought Sheppard's reaction to Teyla's pregnancy was very real and completely in character. I felt bad for Fran--I thought she was a sweet and nice character. Enjoyed the battle scenes too. Good episode!

:indeed:

Pitry
January 5th, 2008, 01:23 PM
One of the very few episodes I enjoyed this year.

-Great humour. Love the wraith. We want Todd! We want Todd!
All the wraith/ SGA people interaction was hilarious.
-from JM's blog I got the impression there are going to be explosions when the team realises Teyla's pregnant. Apparently not.
-Expected the plan to fail.... but am unsure it not failing was a good idea.
-Larin was less annoying than last time, but I suspect that's only ebcause it wasn't an entire episode full of her.
-Got the impression the TRavellers "dealt" with the wraith adn that's why they didn't make it to the rendez-vous point? Hope it means Todd lives tho!
-So originally the 4th Weir episode was supposed to be the Seer? I refuse to comment on that actual appearance tho, am quite tired with the "is she/ isn't she" schtick.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Is it worth mentioning that a Wraith got more screen time than a major character in S4? Guess not cos S4 is so great :P



*throw away people *


Hell, why not add the wraith next to Joe's name next time :P

Eri13
January 5th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Hello--new person here. I think I have to watch the episode again. Got a question.

When Weir said that she didn't have to worry about them "looking over their shoulders anymore," was she refering to the Asurans or the Atlanteans?



She was referring to the Asurans, because right before she says 'good', the ship officers had done a 'nanite sweep' to affirm that no traces of nanites are left.

I think it might be the real Weir--no intent was given, but the nature of the music and design looked 'dark/evil'--however, it was very ambiguous. I'm basing my notion on what JM said in his blog, questioning whether Replicator!Keller was to be believed--whether she was lying. If the showrunner questions that, then I'm going to assume it means there's a 50/50 shot that was the real Weir.

Why would the real Weir do this? Well, that's the plotline that will have to be developed. Maybe all of TMC's plot was actually a design by this Weir to get the hard drive to the Lantians, so they'd destroy the Replicators for her, and they can study ascension in peace. Maybe she's the evil Dupli!Clone and the real Weir is somewhere in the ship, kept alive for study purposes. Maybe real Weir's been taken over by Niam's nanites, which aren't 'good' but still seek ascension. Or want to assimilate humanity into replicator clones.

Who knows? One thing is clear, the door is open for her to come back, and right now that's good enough for me, so long as they follow through!

Callie
January 5th, 2008, 01:31 PM
then Rodney creates Fran (interesting name, I wonder why he chose it)

He explains this: it’s Friendly Replicator ANdroid.

RIP Lieutenant Kemp! We hardly knew him and already he’s a redshirt.

When Chuck tried to dial back to the planet that Kemp was on, did anyone else think that he looks like he’s going a bit grey?!

I loved the bit where, as Larrin orders her guards to kill the Wraith, Ronon runs out of the way to give them a clear shot!

I liked the hark-back to Season 1 where John would get grumpy whenever anyone else named things!

I hope that all the allied fleet have friend-or-foe detectors, or how could they tell the difference between the Replicator ships and Larrin’s, seeing as they’re all Aurora-class?

The choral music for this episode was sublime.

Fantastic episode.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:33 PM
Is it worth mentioning that a Wraith got more screen time than a major character in S4? Guess not cos S4 is so great :P

you mean Ronon and Teyla?


He explains this: it’s Friendly Replicator ANdroid.

yeah I know, thanks anyway :)

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 01:35 PM
you mean Ronon and Teyla?

The list is a big bigger than that ;)

expendable_crewman
January 5th, 2008, 01:37 PM
I don't think this is true at all. If by some unforseen act of huge incompetence, a female soldier is diagnosed as pregnant, and that the medical officer responsible for the diagnosis did not inform the female soldier's commanding officer, the female soldier, as far as I know, is required by her respective branch of the armed services' code of conduct to inform her commanding officer within a certain timeframe (usually around 30 days).

Reasons for going up the chain of command have to do with practical reasons. If medically we are told we need a new duty assignment, or we want one.

And when our uniforms get tight.

The medical officer will give you documentation if medically you need to tell the person in your chain of command.

There are logistical reasons to tell-- you will need new uniforms, you will eventually go to light duty.

First trimester is not in that window of need. Hell, I didn't even know I was pregnant until I was 2.5 months gone. I was flat as a pancake and running five miles every other day.

Spoilered for gross-ness ... No morning sickness until four months ...We're all different.

I should add, that was Marine Corps, not Army.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:37 PM
The list is a big bigger than that ;)

I'm assuming you're talking about regulars?

Rine
January 5th, 2008, 01:39 PM
She was referring to the Asurans, because right before she says 'good', the ship officers had done a 'nanite sweep' to affirm that no traces of nanites are left.

Thank you for clarifying for me; I missed the nanite quote.

@Callie--I feel for poor Kemp too. As soon as I saw him I knew he was a goner. He was a cutie too. :D

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 01:40 PM
I'm assuming you're talking about regulars?

...assume away :P :P

Rosehawk
January 5th, 2008, 01:44 PM
I think it might be the real Weir--no intent was given, but the nature of the music and design looked 'dark/evil'--however, it was very ambiguous. I'm basing my notion on what JM said in his blog, questioning whether Replicator!Keller was to be believed--whether she was lying. If the showrunner questions that, then I'm going to assume it means there's a 50/50 shot that was the real Weir.
I think it might be the real Weir. She was wearing the S4 jacket and not the earlier jacket that RepliWeir was wearing.


Why would the real Weir do this? Well, that's the plotline that will have to be developed. Maybe all of TMC's plot was actually a design by this Weir to get the hard drive to the Lantians, so they'd destroy the Replicators for her, and they can study ascension in peace. Maybe she's the evil Dupli!Clone and the real Weir is somewhere in the ship, kept alive for study purposes. Maybe real Weir's been taken over by Niam's nanites, which aren't 'good' but still seek ascension. Or want to assimilate humanity into replicator clones.

Who knows? One thing is clear, the door is open for her to come back, and right now that's good enough for me, so long as they follow through!
I was hoping that Weir would get to take over the Replicators and it looks like she is. I hope they do more with this storyline in S5.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:44 PM
...assume away :P :P

again, I can only think of Teyla and Ronon. Carter, Shep and McKay had plenty of screen time

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 01:45 PM
again, I can only think of Teyla and Ronon. Carter, Shep and McKay had plenty of screen time

Guess Zelenka is not a regular and so on and so forth :P

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Guess Zelenka is not a regular and so on and so forth :P

um no Zelenka is a recurring character, not a regular

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 01:51 PM
um no Zelenka is a recurring character, not a regular

S1 and S2 say otherwise ....


What next? Weir with her kinky boots will take the replis to another plane of existence? :P

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Is it worth mentioning that a Wraith got more screen time than a major character in S4? Guess not cos S4 is so great :P



*throw away people *


Hell, why not add the wraith next to Joe's name next time :P

I'm assuming that you did post your thoughts on tis ep though I can't find it. What did you think?

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 01:54 PM
S1 and S2 say otherwise ....


What next? Weir with her kinky boots will take the replis to another plane of existence? :P

we're talking about BAMSR -> s4

Pitry
January 5th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Is it worth mentioning that a Wraith got more screen time than a major character in S4? Guess not cos S4 is so great :P



Hell, why not add the wraith next to Joe's name next time :P

Hey, I'm all for it. I deefintiely like the wraith ebtter than I do Teyla or Sheppard! :D

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 02:15 PM
I'm assuming that you did post your thoughts on tis ep though I can't find it. What did you think?

In a nutshell, predictable is the keyword, but here goes...

Cons:

1. This should have been a two parter a lot of potential but too many things were approached so they created something like that BLOB.
2. McKay is better than that. The approach in Miller's crossing was great when he was out of ideas but here, they turned him in Dr. Lee.
3. Carter or a lamp post the same thing. Weir was more mature and seasoned, and this comes from a guy who fancies Carter in SGA.
4. The whole Teyla thing was badly handled . They approached it like she was complaining of a headache.
5. Asurans were stripped of their character. They can replicate Atlantis and weapons that can pose real threat to Atlantis, First Strike, but they cannot man the most powerful vessels ever built? So we thought :P. I feel exactly the same way I felt when they used the wrong model for the O'Neill ship in Camelot.
6. The bad approach for Larrin has been continued here. The only link to Sheppard was that ship, a ship that did not do much. Can Radek fire more drones than Sheppard?
7. Ellis was right in everything he said but because he is the outsider they made him so we pity him for picking on McKay.
8. Radek? From a scientist helping to devise solutions to save the city and the Galaxy he is fixing generators.
9. The Repli-Weir cliché. Bad guys or not so bad guys live to fight another day.
10. Stab at Weir when Sam said they never needed two ships.




Pros:

1. FRAN was amazing and I like the way she saved the Galaxy from , most ,of the replicators. Lovely how she approached this whole thing.
2. The Wraith-Sheppard thing was very nice.
3. Caldwell and Sam, Caldwell and Sheppard, lovely moments.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 02:16 PM
we're talking about BAMSR -> s4

My bad. I am sorry for pointing out that the Wraith had more airtime than Weir in her last S4 episodes :P.

Jumper_One
January 5th, 2008, 02:21 PM
My bad. I am sorry for pointing out that the Wraith had more airtime than Weir in her last S4 episodes :P.

so? she's not a regular in s4 ;)

jelgate
January 5th, 2008, 02:33 PM
My bad.?* I am sorry for pointing out that the Wraith had more airtime than Weir in her last S4 episodes :P.You shall be punished becaue Weir is now a recurring character.*sharpens arrows*

Jeffer
January 5th, 2008, 02:42 PM
Best Episode Ever

segaxgames
January 5th, 2008, 02:43 PM
I was going to just watch porn 10:00pm on friday night. Instead I watched Be All My Sins Remembered...

I still came!

That episode was freakin Orgasmic!

...

especially Fran.

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 02:44 PM
My favourite scene in BAMSR was when SAM replaced HERMIOD at his station on the Dedy. Hang on a tick? This falls under the category that SAM will have her own ship :P

segaxgames
January 5th, 2008, 02:47 PM
I just watched the episode again. They used rail gun only once on a ship with no shields. It also didn't do much damage. I wasn't surprised by the outcome but the fact that replicators seemed completely unaware of the attack. Also it wasn't just 14 ships but 100 or so darts and F-302 too. Replicators clearly didn't expect such an all out attack which was rather stupid. Still lets not forget that replicators would have one the war eventually since whole fight didn't last for than few minutes.


lol...you said "one the war"

Won the war man...

You know what. You should be a scietist on Atlantis. lol

Ruffles
January 5th, 2008, 02:53 PM
I think it might be the real Weir. She was wearing the S4 jacket and not the earlier jacket that RepliWeir was wearing.

Real Weir hasn't seen the new uniforms....

I do agree with you though. I think it is the original Weir. Maybe her nanites sent her to the Wraith's tailor for a new outfit (it is a little different than the other S4 uniforms).

runnerX
January 5th, 2008, 03:23 PM
lol...you said "one the war"

Won the war man...

You know what. You should be a scietist on Atlantis. lol

Everyone's a critic. Don't you ever make mistakes?

Integrabyte
January 5th, 2008, 03:25 PM
lol...you said "one the war"

Won the war man...

You know what. You should be a scietist on Atlantis. lol

You mean scientist ? :P :P :P :P

gkyun
January 5th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Man o man that's what I call great TV!!!

The space battle, wow, gave me goosebumps all the way! Not to mentioned all the great bits throughout the ep - Teyla reveiling her pregnancy, the 2 304s, alliance with the Wraiths and Travellers, McKay's uber hot replicator......and Weir at the end...My Gosh! I totally did not see that coming!

Rosehawk
January 5th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Real Weir hasn't seen the new uniforms....

I do agree with you though. I think it is the original Weir. Maybe her nanites sent her to the Wraith's tailor for a new outfit (it is a little different than the other S4 uniforms).
Oh yeah, you're right! She was wearing the old jacket when things happened.
Strange then that they would put her in the new uniform, maybe to make the distinction between RepliWeir and the RealWeir. I must admit though I like your take on this much better! ;)

dosed150
January 5th, 2008, 05:12 PM
wow, that was an epic space battle almost worthy of babylon 5, the whole replicators destroying human worlds arc really reminded of the shadows and vorlons. Was good to see a multi race fleet like that, i was half thinking they would turn on each other after the battle, im guessing thats why the wraith didn't go to the rendevous point. Was it just me who thought fran looked vaguely like sam, they had the same sort of face structure, i did like the teyla ronon buddy moment, and the repli-weir moment at the end has left me guessing

scififreak23
January 5th, 2008, 05:13 PM
BEST EPISODE EVER!!!!

I loved the beginning with the the whole "Colonel" scene beteween elli,caldwell,sheppard,carter, and mckay. I laughed so hard during that scene.

Ellis-thankgod, someone finally told off rodney. Usually i enjoy rodney but all the time while i was watching that scene all i did was keep yelling at mckay to just admit he didn't have anything and move on. ellis was right on with everything that he said about mckay.I love ellis to me he reminds me of a hard core military man through and through. Mckay was beating around the bush and wasting their time when they could be devising a battle plan to make up for the one that they were going to use that they had to scratch.

I don't blame sheppard one bit for reacting that way to finding out about teyla's pregnancy.He was her commanding officer and it was his responisbilty for her welfare and she was keeping vital medical information from him that he needed to know.

i loved caldwells line"After the cold war i thought it was weird working with the russians" Every seldomly does real life/historical events get put into to the stargate world but that line was put in their nicely.

My favorite scene of the whole show was watching the enitre armada jump into hyperspace. I got so excited when they all jumped to the replicator homeworld.

The battle scene was amazing and so was the destruction of the asurans. I loved frans "Hello".

The sheppard/larrin scene was so cute! I think those two would make for a really good couple.I loved it when sheppard asked her for her "phone number".

The scene at the end of the show with weir and the aurans was a great way to end the episode.I look forward to seeing where that story goes.

talyn2k1
January 5th, 2008, 05:19 PM
In a nutshell, predictable is the keyword, but here goes...

Cons:

1. This should have been a two parter a lot of potential but too many things were approached so they created something like that BLOB.


It certainly had enough material to be a two-parter but I liked how it was all in one episode. It was fast paced without being crammed in.



2. McKay is better than that. The approach in Miller's crossing was great when he was out of ideas but here, they turned him in Dr. Lee.


Tbh, I don't see the comparison between McKay and Lee. Could you elaborate a little?



3. Carter or a lamp post the same thing. Weir was more mature and seasoned, and this comes from a guy who fancies Carter in SGA.


Most of the lines said by Carter could easily have been said by Weir, same can be said for most of Weir's lines in the first three years, they are fairly generic. Difference was, Carter understood what McKay was taking about when he first proposed the blob, where as Weir would've required it to be spelt out in big letters.



4. The whole Teyla thing was badly handled . They approached it like she was complaining of a headache.


She was playing it down to prevent the others from finding out, same as she has been doing for the last two months. I don't find anything particularly odd about this other than the fact she was trying to keep it secret at all.



5. Asurans were stripped of their character. They can replicate Atlantis and weapons that can pose real threat to Atlantis, First Strike, but they cannot man the most powerful vessels ever built? So we thought :P. I feel exactly the same way I felt when they used the wrong model for the O'Neill ship in Camelot.


What do you mean they can't man them? Are you referring to their tactics? If so, remember they are reading from the Ancients' book on strategy - a light and boring read if ever there was one.



6. The bad approach for Larrin has been continued here. The only link to Sheppard was that ship, a ship that did not do much. Can Radek fire more drones than Sheppard?


Probably not more but almost definitely with superior targeting which, given the number of other vessels in the battle field and the fact they were targeting a specific ship which was trying to escape, was fairly crucial to make sure their drones hit that particular ship and didn't get destroyed by a passing Aurora or, even worse, a friendly that happened to fly into their path.



7. Ellis was right in everything he said but because he is the outsider they made him so we pity him for picking on McKay.


Ellis was just saying what everyone was thinking. What he doesn't know is that that is just how McKay is. We now know that Ellis is not very tolerant of people who don't get straight to the point.



8. Radek? From a scientist helping to devise solutions to save the city and the Galaxy he is fixing generators.


To be fair, Radek was just watching McKay work. He wasn't really providing anything crucial at the time. Just cos' we're about to engage in a major battle that doesn't mean we can let Atlantis fall apart. I would imagine the majority of Atlantis' technicians were busy getting Larrin's Aurora ready for battle. Imho, this would've been a better place for Radek to be than watching McKay work.



9. The Repli-Weir cliché. Bad guys or not so bad guys live to fight another day.


I like the ambiguity of that Weir's origins and loyalties. I just hope they don't forget about her and leave us hanging with what she is actually doing.



10. Stab at Weir when Sam said they never needed two ships.


I don't think so. They were never facing a marauding army of Aurora-class ships wiping all life from any planet they encountered until Sam took command. The situation had escalated to a point where two ships at the same time were absolutely crucial.



Pros:

1. FRAN was amazing and I like the way she saved the Galaxy from , most ,of the replicators. Lovely how she approached this whole thing.
2. The Wraith-Sheppard thing was very nice.
3. Caldwell and Sam, Caldwell and Sheppard, lovely moments.

Agree with all. Would just like to add that the battle scene, despite its flaws, was the most amazing and awe-inspiring battle in the history of Stargate. PTB will have to spend ALOT of money to ever beat it.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 5th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Oh yeah, you're right! She was wearing the old jacket when things happened.
Strange then that they would put her in the new uniform, maybe to make the distinction between RepliWeir and the RealWeir. I must admit though I like your take on this much better! ;)

I don't know what you saw but the clothes she was wearing didn't look anything like the new uniforms to me. It just looked like a leather suit.

gkyun
January 5th, 2008, 05:46 PM
I liked Larrin more in this ep and am looking forward to seeing the Travelers again. She's the first woman that Sheppard seems even romotely awkward around. Normally, he's in his element with women, but she completely throws him off. Although I winced in sympathy when he tried to get her "number", lol.


The sheppard/larrin scene was so cute! I think those two would make for a really good couple.I loved it when sheppard asked her for her "phone number".


Yep Sheppard sure has a puppy-love thing going for Larrin. The pair do have great chemistry.

They delivered many great lines that cracked me up every time and Sheppard so gets the wrong idea for what Larrin says, like:

"I'll be fine as long as you don't shoot too early. I'm sure that's not the first time you've heard that from a woman." and

"We have an arsenal of drones but none of my guys can fire quite like you can." The faces on Carter and Sheppard were priceless!

Xicer
January 5th, 2008, 05:47 PM
I think Rosehawk was talking about the red stripes on the shoulders, or whatever they were. It sorta looked like one of the new Atlantis uniforms with red indicating command. I dunno if it was intentional or not though...

Blower'sGate
January 5th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Good episode.

Fran was cute!

WEIR = HAWT! That outfit? Wow! Can't wait to see what the writers have in stores for Weir in s5 ( if she doesn't become Ford, The Next Generation *cough* ).

Mekarri
January 5th, 2008, 05:55 PM
a) The third time you quoted me, it was a misquote. I don't quite remember who said that, but it wasn't me.

b) I'm not suggesting that being pregnant means Teyla should stop being active at all. I'm not one of those people who thinks pregnany women should stop work altogether just 'cause they're popping one out - in fact, if you're not on bedrest and don't have a job that would risk complications, keep on going; just don't be stupid. And I think going into combat carrying a child when a large percentage of pregnancies result in miscarriages (though, to be fair, I have no clue what the Athosian miscarriage rate is) is less that smart. I don't think that Teyla should stop sparring on the show, nor did I imply that Athosian women didn't train and participate in hand-to-hand while pregnant. But there's a marked difference between getting hit with a bantos rod by someone you work with, and unknown enemy of the week shooting you with a bullet or energy weapon. When people were stunned during cullings, the effects of that on an unborn child didn't matter so much, as if you were stunned, you were marked for death anyway. That's not the case now.

The Athosians had their pocket of resistance, but I'm pretty sure that Teyla had never been inside a hive ship before the first episode.

I didn't suggest that the Athosians didn't resist the Wraith. I did, however, state that the level of the resistance was different. There's a difference between fighting for your life because someone came to your planet and you have to, and voluntarily going out and entering situations that make you fight for your life.


--------------------------

Also, and I think people are forgetting this, it's not like Sheppard deliberated and arrived at this decision. This was sprung on him in the middle of an ongoing, high-risk operation. What we're seeing onscree is a gut reaction to the news that someone close to him, who he's responsible for, has kept something from him and put him in a situation where his orders are endangering a life. He's understandably upset. Perhaps he should have gotten Keller's word. I'm sure he will before doing the paperwork. But the scene we got was a blend between military!Sheppard and John the friend, which is why I liked it. I'm interested in the fact that Carter didn't disagree. There wasn't time for much argument, but a simple "We'll talk about this" would have been there if she disagreed.
I just don't see why he should be upset with her. She is a adult and she has a right to her privacy. She would have told him eventually. But at 3 months, she is not there yet and that is her right. He is not the father and what he feels she should or should not be doing while pregnant should be his problem, not hers. Her baby is not his concern. And if he was a true friend he would have behaved as Ronon. I have a child and I would be very upset if anyone act as if I owed them an explanation of any kind. If your feelings are hurt, then go do whatever you need to do to get over it. This woman was living her life and she was a leader of her people long before he came along. I'm sure she fought the wraith and encounter plenty dangerous situation before she meant the great john Shepard. So why would she think or behave the way most of the people here think she should? It would be nice if SCIFI could entertain the idea that a strong and smart woman like Teyla would have gave john a dose of reality, remind him that no one is safe and she doesn't need him to rescue her or make the decision as to what is best for for her or her child. But most of all, he need to get over himself. And remind him that he is in the Pegasus galaxy and if it wasn't for her advice they may have been wipe out before they could have even understood the wraith. She and Ronon saved their lives when they all lost their memories. Yet they treat her as if she is a child, that need to have decisions made for her. How he think pregnant women are suppose to behave is his problem not hers and don't make it her problem. His team isn't at risk and the baby isn't his concern. Can anyone grasp that thought? By the way, John never disrespects Ronon even when Ronon being hard to control and I wonder is that. Is it because he is a man?

The reason I think Carter didn't disagree with john dismissing Teyla like a child on punishment is because she been in the military too long, it is hard for her to think like a human being or as a woman. All she know is orders and chain of command. Carter is a drone. If the General orders her to do something she know is stupid and or dangerous and doesn't have a chance of working she would still do it. Some people would say she is in the military and you must follow orders. I could never blindly follow anyone orders if my life or the lives or others hang in the balance. What if the General is wrong? Or just corrupted. It could happen, look at our President. But for me, no one could order me to my death and I go alone with it. It is against my nature. The decision for me to die for something that I believe in, is mine and mine alone. I am not a drone.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 5th, 2008, 06:01 PM
I liked the hark-back to Season 1 where John would get grumpy whenever anyone else named things!

I noticed that. I had just watched an interview of JF on SciFi.com where they showed a bunch of clips of him saying "we can name it later" so it was funny to see that line in the episode.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 5th, 2008, 06:04 PM
I think Rosehawk was talking about the red stripes on the shoulders, or whatever they were. It sorta looked like one of the new Atlantis uniforms with red indicating command. I dunno if it was intentional or not though...

Yeah I just saw a picture of the shoulders that I didn't notice when I watched the episode. I guess I can see what they're talking about but it still don't look the same to me.

Lord batchi ball
January 5th, 2008, 06:19 PM
I found this episode to be entertaining but not the most exciting.

The space battle was the best!! It is only second to Reckoning.

The reason I say it was just entertaining was because they were battleing Aurora class ships, designed by the most advanced race so far and all they did do us was make us mad, they did'nt dent the shields they did not destroy the Apllo (which I think will be the next one destroyed).

And during the fight scenes there was no emotion in thier voices. Oh look there are thrity ships, fire the weapons.

Thats just my opinion but like I said it was entertaining.

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 06:28 PM
In a nutshell, predictable is the keyword, but here goes...
Really? Alot of it surprised me but anyway..;)


Cons:

1. This should have been a two parter a lot of potential but too many things were approached so they created something like that BLOB.
It was a two parter remember? J/K;)TBH I said the same about the Blob though thankfully it was better than that awful movie.

2. McKay is better than that. The approach in Miller's crossing was great when he was out of ideas but here, they turned him in Dr. Lee.
I don't follow. Dr Lee is a bumbling idiot Mckay didn't act like that at all. In fact he was great in this.

3. Carter or a lamp post the same thing. Weir was more mature and seasoned, and this comes from a guy who fancies Carter in SGA.
I don't agree. Carter is far more seasoned than Weir and was great in this one.

4. The whole Teyla thing was badly handled . They approached it like she was complaining of a headache.
We can't have seen the same episode because that is not the impression I got at all.
[QUOE]5. Asurans were stripped of their character. They can replicate Atlantis and weapons that can pose real threat to Atlantis, First Strike, but they cannot man the most powerful vessels ever built? So we thought :P. I feel exactly the same way I felt when they used the wrong model for the O'Neill ship in Camelot.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I follow. I obviously didn't see the ep the same way you did.

6. The bad approach for Larrin has been continued here. The only link to Sheppard was that ship, a ship that did not do much. Can Radek fire more drones than Sheppard?
Again I fail to see what you are saying. Larrin was way more fleshed out as a character in this one. I'm actually liking her.

7. Ellis was right in everything he said but because he is the outsider they made him so we pity him for picking on McKay.
He was out of line. It doesnt matter if he was right or not.

8. Radek? From a scientist helping to devise solutions to save the city and the Galaxy he is fixing generators.
Uh well Atlantis was short on people at the moment and h is qualified to work on those. I don't see that as hurting the character.

9. The Repli-Weir cliché. Bad guys or not so bad guys live to fight another day.
10. Stab at Weir when Sam said they never needed two ships.
I disagree.


I'm sorry that you arent enjoying this season like I am but I do enjoy debating you.;)

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 06:33 PM
I just don't see why he should be upset with her. She is a adult and she has a right to her privacy. She would have told him eventually. But at 3 months, she is not there yet and that is her right. He is not the father and what he feels she should or should not be doing while pregnant should be his problem, not hers. Her baby is not his concern. And if he was a true friend he would have behaved as Ronon. I have a child and I would be very upset if anyone act as if I owed them an explanation of any kind. If your feelings are hurt, then go do whatever you need to do to get over it. This woman was living her life and she was a leader of her people long before he came along. I'm sure she fought the wraith and encounter plenty dangerous situation before she meant the great john Shepard. So why would she think or behave the way most of the people here think she should? It would be nice if SCIFI could entertain the idea that a strong and smart woman like Teyla would have gave john a dose of reality, remind him that no one is safe and she doesn't need him to rescue her or make the decision as to what is best for for her or her child. But most of all, he need to get over himself. And remind him that he is in the Pegasus galaxy and if it wasn't for her advice they may have been wipe out before they could have even understood the wraith. She and Ronon saved their lives when they all lost their memories. Yet they treat her as if she is a child, that need to have decisions made for her. How he think pregnant women are suppose to behave is his problem not hers and don't make it her problem. His team isn't at risk and the baby isn't his concern. Can anyone grasp that thought? By the way, John never disrespects Ronon even when Ronon being hard to control and I wonder is that. Is it because he is a man?
I disagree. Teyla is a member of a frontline team that has the most dangerous job in the universe. As her supperior she needed to tell him the moment she knew. She plaed her child and herself in unnecessary danger. He acted propeerly. The way he acted actually shows how much of a friend he is. He cares for her.....alot.


The reason I think Carter didn't disagree with john dismissing Teyla like a child on punishment is because she been in the military too long, it is hard for her to think like a human being or as a woman. All she know is orders and chain of command. Carter is a drone. If the General orders her to do something she know is stupid and or dangerous and doesn't have a chance of working she would still do it. Some people would say she is in the military and you must follow orders. I could never blindly follow anyone orders if my life or the lives or others hang in the balance. What if the General is wrong? Or just corrupted. It could happen, look at our President. But for me, no one could order me to my death and I go alone with it. It is against my nature. The decision for me to die for something that I believe in, is mine and mine alone. I am not a drone.
I really take offense at this since I was in the service. because she i military she is a drone? I'm sorry but that is very offensive not to mention completly innacurate.

Rine
January 5th, 2008, 06:41 PM
My opinion on the Teyla pregnancy issue...she was wrong to not tell Sheppard and I completely understand his reaction.

What if you were the commander of a team and had to order people into the line of danger? How would you feel knowing that because of your order, a woman miscarried her baby? I would hate myself--I would feel responsible for the death of the child and angry at the mother for not being responsible.

Anyhow, that's just how I feel. Teyla should have told Sheppard immediately so she wouldn't have put her child in unnecessary danger. She could have restricted duties on base only. Being pregnant doesn't mean you can't do anything. It just means that you have to take precautions and protect yourself to protect your child.

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 06:45 PM
My opinion on the Teyla pregnancy issue...she was wrong to not tell Sheppard and I completely understand his reaction.

What if you were the commander of a team and had to order people into the line of danger? How would you feel knowing that because of your order, a woman miscarried her baby? I would hate myself--I would feel responsible for the death of the child and angry at the mother for not being responsible.

Anyhow, that's just how I feel. Teyla should have told Sheppard immediately so she wouldn't have put her child in unnecessary danger. She could have restricted duties on base only. Being pregnant doesn't mean you can't do anything. It just means that you have to take precautions and protect yourself to protect your child.
Thank you! I have been trying to get that across to people.

Rosehawk
January 5th, 2008, 06:48 PM
I don't know what you saw but the clothes she was wearing didn't look anything like the new uniforms to me. It just looked like a leather suit.


I think Rosehawk was talking about the red stripes on the shoulders, or whatever they were. It sorta looked like one of the new Atlantis uniforms with red indicating command. I dunno if it was intentional or not though...

What Xicer said! I didn't notice the red stripes on the first airing, did on the second. :cool:

the fifth man
January 5th, 2008, 06:58 PM
My opinion on the Teyla pregnancy issue...she was wrong to not tell Sheppard and I completely understand his reaction.

What if you were the commander of a team and had to order people into the line of danger? How would you feel knowing that because of your order, a woman miscarried her baby? I would hate myself--I would feel responsible for the death of the child and angry at the mother for not being responsible.

Anyhow, that's just how I feel. Teyla should have told Sheppard immediately so she wouldn't have put her child in unnecessary danger. She could have restricted duties on base only. Being pregnant doesn't mean you can't do anything. It just means that you have to take precautions and protect yourself to protect your child.

I couldn't agree with you more on this. Great post.:)

jenks
January 5th, 2008, 06:59 PM
Did anyone else notice that mental 302? It's at the bottom left of the screen at about 34:50, it does about 10 barrel roles for no apparent reason!

starfox
January 5th, 2008, 06:59 PM
I just don't see why he should be upset with her. She is a adult and she has a right to her privacy. She would have told him eventually. But at 3 months, she is not there yet and that is her right. He is not the father and what he feels she should or should not be doing while pregnant should be his problem, not hers. Her baby is not his concern. And if he was a true friend he would have behaved as Ronon. I have a child and I would be very upset if anyone act as if I owed them an explanation of any kind. If your feelings are hurt, then go do whatever you need to do to get over it. This woman was living her life and she was a leader of her people long before he came along. I'm sure she fought the wraith and encounter plenty dangerous situation before she meant the great john Shepard. So why would she think or behave the way most of the people here think she should? It would be nice if SCIFI could entertain the idea that a strong and smart woman like Teyla would have gave john a dose of reality, remind him that no one is safe and she doesn't need him to rescue her or make the decision as to what is best for for her or her child. But most of all, he need to get over himself. And remind him that he is in the Pegasus galaxy and if it wasn't for her advice they may have been wipe out before they could have even understood the wraith. She and Ronon saved their lives when they all lost their memories. Yet they treat her as if she is a child, that need to have decisions made for her. How he think pregnant women are suppose to behave is his problem not hers and don't make it her problem. His team isn't at risk and the baby isn't his concern. Can anyone grasp that thought? By the way, John never disrespects Ronon even when Ronon being hard to control and I wonder is that. Is it because he is a man?



First off, your "I am woman, hear me roar" logic isn't really helping your case, mainly because whatever gender issues may exist in the service IRL, they've been very much downplayed in the writing of Atlantis, especially within the dynamics of Sheppard's off-world team. The four of them work as a unit, and I can't think of any real attention being paid to Teyla's gender in a derogatory way by Ronon, Sheppard, or McKay, so the assumption that John is being controlling because Teyla is a woman makes no sense with regard to what we know of his character. He's traditionally had many more difficulties with his military higher ups than he's had with Weir, Teyla, or Carter.


I think the bolded section is what I'm having the most trouble with, though. There's an assumption that being a good friend means being supportive no matter what, and that's not always true. Sometimes a good friend is a person who says "Well, that was dumb," The person who doesn't blow smoke up your rear. Friends are honest with each other, and the fact that Sheppard wasn't instantly fawning over Teyla's unborn doesn't make him a bad person or a bad friend. It means he was hurt. And that's okay; everyone's entitled to their emotions. He's hurt that his friend and teammate a) was withholding such life-changing information from him for months and b) allowed him to put her into situations that could cause complications with her pregnancy and comprimised the team. You say you have a child. Would you have gone out and allowed yourself to be shot at while pregnant? What if you discovered that one of your friends was doing the same thing, even though she had the option of continuing her work from a safer locale? You're telling me you wouldn't find such behaviour the least bit reckless?

You said it yourself, Teyla's a big girl. Being her friend doesn't mean that Sheppard has to lie to make Teyla feel better. She'd just find out later and be mad that he didn't tell her in the first place. IMO, honesty is a much better gesture of respect than empty congratulations. If Teyla wanted a better response, then it's like John said, she should have tried kinder when she tried to tell him earlier.

p-pos
January 5th, 2008, 07:02 PM
this was a great episode and i watched it with my two friends who never saw any episodes and they enjoyed it just as much.

as far the sheppard/teyla scene i agree with those who think that sheppard was right in taking her off active duty and it came off as harsh because he was reacting to the news. he was shocked, surprise, hurt and concern in that order and his emotions and reactions changed accordingly.

the only thing i don't understand is why would teyla keep Kanan a secret from sheppard and not ronon, Sheppard didn't even know she was dating

Rosehawk
January 5th, 2008, 07:05 PM
My opinion on the Teyla pregnancy issue...she was wrong to not tell Sheppard and I completely understand his reaction.
Teyla was wrong not to mention it sooner, though I can understand her desire to find her people and the baby's father would put her emotions in major conflict. Sheppard's reaction was totally appropriate and he had every right to be upset.

I am more suprise that Dr. Keller didn't saying anything. Keller, as a doctor would know that Teyla would be going into potientally dangerous situations and she as a doctor, I would think, had an obligation to at least tell Sam about Teyla's condition regardless of the fact that Teyla asked her not to say anything. Two months is a long time for the two of them to keep Teyla's pregnancy a secret. The confidenciality between doctor and patient should have be set aside the moment Teyla was put into combat situations which could have put herself and/or the team at risk which is a potiental everytime she goes through the gate. The doctor is suppose to be thinking rational even if the patient isn't.

Mitchell82
January 5th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Teyla was wrong not to mention it sooner, though I can understand her desire to find her people and the baby's father would put her emotions in major conflict. Sheppard's reaction was totally appropriate and he had every right to be upset.

I am more suprise that Dr. Keller didn't saying anything. Keller, as a doctor would know that Teyla would be going into potientally dangerous situations and she as a doctor, I would think, had an obligation to at least tell Sam about Teyla's condition regardless of the fact that Teyla asked her not to say anything. Two months is a long time for the two of them to keep Teyla's pregnancy a secret. The confidenciality between doctor and patient should have be set aside the moment Teyla was put into combat situations which could have put herself and/or the team at risk which is a potiental everytime she goes through the gate. The doctor is suppose to be thinking rational even if the patient isn't.

Teyla is a rational as she ever was and Keller could not say anything without breaching doctor paitent privlege. The only reason she could is with Teyla's permition or reasonable cause to assume her life or others were in danger. As of yet there wasn't. Teyla was the one that needed to bring it to Sam or Shep.

p-pos
January 5th, 2008, 07:19 PM
My opinion on the Teyla pregnancy issue...she was wrong to not tell Sheppard and I completely understand his reaction.

What if you were the commander of a team and had to order people into the line of danger? How would you feel knowing that because of your order, a woman miscarried her baby? I would hate myself--I would feel responsible for the death of the child and angry at the mother for not being responsible.

Anyhow, that's just how I feel. Teyla should have told Sheppard immediately so she wouldn't have put her child in unnecessary danger. She could have restricted duties on base only. Being pregnant doesn't mean you can't do anything. It just means that you have to take precautions and protect yourself to protect your child.

i think Teyla biggest concern right now is her finding her people and especially the father of her baby. she is only three months pregnant and is no more a threat now as she was four months ago.

PG15
January 5th, 2008, 07:20 PM
OMG.

OMG.

OMG!

OMFG!!

THAT WAS EFFING EPIC.

EPIC.

THAT WAS.

WAS THAT EPIC? YES, IT WAS EPIC. EPIC.

EPIC.

EPIIIIIIIIC.

EPIC.

---

^That was basically what was going through my mind during most of the episode, actually, and I think I blew a fuse some time during that BIG OMG BATTLE at the end. Physically, I was staring at the screen, mouth open, eyes wider than ever (which is pretty hard, since I'm Asian), just...I was being epic-ed to death, and I would've allowed it to kill me. It was that good.

Just to warn you; the more I like an episode, the longer my posts tend to be. Ok, here we go...

Words can't really describe just how *spectacular* this episode was in almost every way. The episode was obviously jammed-pack with plot points and twists and new revelations, but somehow, it didn't feel rushed at all. Actually, it felt like a movie that was perfectly paced. All at once, this episode tackled important character moments (featuring one of the best in the show, IMHO), the arc of the season, some ethical issues even, and of course, concluded with THE greatest battle in Stargate history, bar none. The Battle of Asuras (ohhhh...just typing that out was sweet) was greater than The Battle of the Supergate, The Battle over Antarctica, The Battle for Dakara, COMBINED. Seriously. Let's go through this.

The Battle of Asuras (sweeet) might not have had more ships than some of the others, but the way it was filmed and choreographed was enough to blow The Battle of the Supergate out of the water, which, while also spectacular, was kind of static. The sheer size of the vessels, and thus the resulting chaos and weight of the battle, makes it better than The Battle over Antarctica. Lastly, the amount of footage we saw, the conclusion of it, and the setting itself, over the green world of the Replicator Homeworld, makes it better than the The Battle of Dakara.

The greatest battle in the history of Stargate is, without a doubt, The Battle of Asuras. AWESOME.

Now top it, TPTB.

Moving on...oh hey, did you just blink? Oh no, you shouldn't have done that, because now the Weeping Angels will get...oh, see you blinked again, now you're dead. Good going.

What does that have to do with BAMSR? Well, the Weeping Angles were a major part of the Doctor Who episode "Blink", which also carries the title of "The previous time in SciFi where a plot device blew PG15's mind". Yeah, the whole "Quantum Lock" deal was just sooooo awesomely physics-y, that I was basically uber impressed, and was sucked into that show.

And now, BAMSR takes over that title. The whole "let's crush 'em" solution, while simple as hell, did not come into any part of my brain, at all, before it was revealed. And IMHO it was genius. And then, with the talk of neutron stars and blowing up planets, I was sent into the exosphere (look it up) with utter joy and happiness. I wonder how the writers felt when they came up with it...did they go "hey! Nice idea!" or did they, like me, flail and shout in joy? Probably the latter. Oh, those boys at Bridge, so rowdy.

But seriously, BRILLIANT solution. And so bloody simple! My God, why are you so awesome in my opinion, Stargate Atlantis?!?!

Phew, let's see...there are just so many awesome things in this episode that it'll be impossible for me to include all of it. I guess I'll include a bunch of them in the "character moments" paragraph that this paragraph, and the following few, are. First, we get some good continuity with Ellis and McKay's antagonism. While watching the episode, I just assumed that it was another military vs. scientist schtick that they have going, but now that I think about it, it was basically hinted at in First Strike as well, so haha! Continuity! Following that, we have Ballbreaker!Sam, which was a delight, really. I'll admit, I was scared there for a moment, for Ellis. Amanda Tapping has become very intimidating, and the way she translates that into Carter was just brilliant in this episode. And yet, later on, when she slips into tech!fangirl mode at the sight of those ships, it reminded us that this was the same women who was geeking out over the event horizon of the Stargate more than 10 years ago.

My God, 10 years...ok, moving on.

There were quite a few comedic moments in this episode. I thought the Sheppard/Larrin scenes were hilarious, particularly that one moment when Shep sneaks a peek at her...good. Come on, any heterosexual man or homosexual women would've done it...if they were brave enough...like Shep. He's a man's man, man. :D Actually, I thought, more than ever, the two have GREAT chemistry. Larrin's sly body language and many, many innuendos are the perfect foil for Shep's...various subtle facial expressions that he uses when dealing with strange going-ons. I can watch those 2 all day, with Larrin saying something that could mean something else, and Shep, say, raises an eyebrow or something. It cracks me up.

The best character scene, without a doubt, however, was when Teyla told Shep and Ronon about her pregnency. The scene suddenly rises above the rest of the episode (but not before making that awesome joke. "Don't look at me!" Oh Ronon) and gets a life of its own. Joe Flanigan was just...ridiculously brilliant in that scene, I guess, is the best way to describe it. It was just so well done. I think it was a hard scene to portray, as well. Joe had to mix into the portrayl the right amount of selfless concern for the child and Teyla, with the selfish jealousy that I read he intended to portray, which I saw as well. It must have been confusing to be blindsided like that. I think his decision, while the right one, was based on his jealously, to be honest, and he rationalised it with his concern.

Now, the best twist in the scene, is how the two men handled the news. Shep was new to all of this. He's a military guy, sure, but he's still not as laid back and mellow (yeah, I know) as Ronon is, after all his years of being hunted by the Wraith and putting up with all that crap. What this scene tells me is that Ronon is a lot more emotionally-numb than Sheppard, and that he knows that (as Sunday showed) there was nothing really there between him and Teyla. Shep, on the other hand, being a...well, guy from Earth who had to put up with much less crap and is a lot more emotionally fragile as a result (relatively speaking), probably thought there was always that possibility between him and Teyla. It was a very deep scene that can be interpreted in sooo many ways.

For me, there was definitely shipping fodder for Sheppard and Teyla, while the Ronon and Teyla interaction was purely friendship-based (but oh-so-sweet nonetheless). I might actually think about this further if I had not known that TPTB already decided that, at least for this season, there will be no real shipping.

Platonic!Ronon/Teyla FTW!!

Ahem, ok, let's move on. What separates this episode from all the other big-action ones is FRAN. I loved her. She offered a bit of innocence and tragedy into this episode and basically brought it up to another level. Her constant smile, her cheery attitude, juxtaposed with the expedition's attitude towards her, her origins, and her fate pretty much makes her one of the best guest stars this show's ever had. A big BRAVO to the actress who portrayed her!

The fact that, at the end, she just said "hello" in that amazingly innocent voice, closed her eyes, smiled one last time, and started destroying the replicators...it was heartbreaking. How she can make me love her so much in so little time...I don't know. It's magic, I guess. Worst of all, we'll probably never see her again.

Her small part of the story basically made it clear to me the one-and-only fault with this episode: it should've been an arc. The material in this episode could've easily filled several episodes, maybe 3 or 4. I have no doubt. We would've had more time to go through the negotiations with the Wraith, maybe even a wonderfully-scored montage of the fleet getting ready for battle. We could've had many more scenes dealing with Shep and Ronon's reactions to Teyla's pregnency, more antagonism between Ellis and Mckay, possibly leading to a climactic scene of some sort between them, and most of all...we could've had more FRAN, and delved much deeper into the ethics of the expeditions actions.

I miss her already. Poor little girl... :(

But of course, one last thing remains to be touched upon. Just as I suspect, the last appearnce of Weir this season was small, but oh-so-rife with possibilities. Is she a replicant? A full-on replicator? Maybe she's the original Weir, but her nanites have overcome her original personality? Or, perhaps she's our Weir in everyway, and that all the dark lighting is just to throw us off? One way or another, this pretty much says that she will be back (again, as I suspected). There is no other choice here. Weir made it clear, this is just the beginning. Unlike Ford, TPTB doesn't have a viable "escape clause"; Weir is very much alive in some form and in no danger of dying by the end of this episode. She will be back, and I think her return will be grand.

Oh, and Leather!Weir is ridiculously hot, by the way. Just sayin'.

So where does this leave us? One of the greatest episodes of Stargate showcased the destruction of the Replicator Homeworld along with most of its inhabitants; the Wraith are back on our tail as enemies, except 1...maybe; the Travelers are still out there, an ally, perhaps; Teyla's pregnency is out in the open and it just cost her her position on the team; we can now create replicators of our own; our ships have Asgard beam weapons that can PWN so very hard; and Weir is back as the commander of...well, a mysterious group. As a lot of doors close, more have been opened, and creatively, Stargate Atlantis has never been better prepared. One thing is clear: "Be All My Sins Remember'd" is just the beginning of a wild ride towards the end of Season 4, and onward towards the mysterious Season 5.

Score: 10/10

starfox
January 5th, 2008, 07:23 PM
i think Teyla biggest concern right now is her finding her people and especially the father of her baby. she is only three months pregnant and is no more a threat now as she was four months ago.

Being pregnant doesn't just slow you down once you start showing. Miscarriage is a very big possibility even in the first trimester, especially if your system experiences extreme trauma, which isn't unusual for gate team members. I completely agree that Teyla's primary concern right now is finding her people, but she could still do that while scaled back to diplomatic missions, thus reducing her time in active combat.

Not that it matters, 'cause judging by previews for future episodes, she's going to convince Carter to keep her on full duty. How okay I am with that depends on how the scene is handled, both by the writers and the actors.

starfox
January 5th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Moving on...oh hey, did you just blink? Oh no, you shouldn't have done that, because now the Weeping Angels will get...oh, see you blinked again, now you're dead. Good going.

Why did you have to bring that up? I get creeped out every time I think about that episode - seriously, I had to sit with my back to a wall that night so I could see the whole room. Phenomenal episode, but incredibly creepifying.

garhkal
January 5th, 2008, 07:35 PM
I don't think it had to do with the materials so much as it had to do with how the ships were made. The replicators make things with certain programming encoded into every cell. Fran uploaded a sort of magnet program that called every cell with that programming within viable range to her side. That's why the ships broke apart and got sucked to the planet.

I don't remember seeing any of the ships breaking up though..


Yeah how the hell did our rail guns hurt the replicator ships? Normally rail guns can't even beat a ha'tak but somehow they were able to damage Ancinet Level Shields? In terms of tech this episode sucked


If you watch that part again, you would see that the Rail guns are hitting unshielded Auroras..


I was thinking of the part where he asks to have the chains removed because they might not make the best impression.
.

I would not count that one as being humorous..


Actually, as far as I can remember we only know of the long range sensors tracking Wraith hive ships. I think it's well within the realms of possibility that the sensors can't (or more likely don't) track 304's and the Travelers ships, so considering they had their entire fleet in orbit, I don't think 7 hives on their way would bother them too much.

Either that or Oberoth had already taken a good number of Asurans away to another planet and had told the rest to not put up much of a fight so we think they are all gone, while Oberoth rebuilds in secret.


using the dialogue that was said aboard the Apollo I believe, that their own shields were failing, so they (Apollo and Daedy) suffered at least some serious damage.

That is true, we do hear carter calling down to Mccay to hurry up cause they are taking damage..



Also when the black out occured thats when I would beam like crazy to get the ZPMs. Shields were down so it would have been easy to beam out the ZPM's I'm just tired of every episode trying to find a ZPM this way they could focus on a new plot.

We know from SG1 that the beamers have limited distance for penetration, just watch Avalon again. So maybe where the blob was covered the ZOM room so much the beams could not penetrate it.


That seems to be the case. IMO It would have looked pretty cheesy if they had managed to find the opportunity to take the ZPMs because it would be like "ok we took out a major enemy and our power is pretty much set for the rest of our time on Atlantis and anything Earth may need." It would be the end of everything.

Very true. That is why i hope we DONT get more ZPMS... Still keeps the challenge level there.


Those Wraith ships were starting to get pwned. They wouldn't have lasted another few minutes.

very true. Heck, even tod's hive looked beat up... And now we know their regeneration is linked to power.. More power to the hull regeneration, faster they can be repaired..



Was Chris Heyerdhal the Wraith this week or did he just provide the voice? I don't know why, but he looked different.

I saw no difference..


Not on the one that got destroyed by the rail guns.

If they can detect a hyperspace window opening (there's no reason to think that they cant), why didnt they raise those shields??


TIME.. It takes it to raise shields..
We came out of hyperspace literally firing from the get go, so they probabily did not have time to raise them... like In allies when the wraith fired on the Dadelus just as it exited hyperspace..


The way the Asurans were defeated in this episode as opposed to the original variety is a lot more satisfying because Atlantis and allies managed to defeat them on their own merits rather than an ancient artifact of magnificent power.

True, but technically we still needed the Asgard beam of Owning for this to have worked..


I loved this eps. But I have always thought that Teyla and her people was treated with little or no respect. The way John went off on her was not necessary. I felt like he was being an *******. I feel a person who is a leader of her people, her world, would not allow anyone to speak to her in such a way. Hell, it would be hard to even take orders from someone else. So she is pregnant, so what? if you are not the father you don't even get a voice in what I do? Don't treat me like I'm your responsibility..

As her team leader and supervisor, he HAS to take responsibility for what happens to her. BUT i do agree, there has been a severe lacking of respect for her people since the get go..



-Ellis saying "Son of a *****, he actually did it" about Rodney. ( I am so proud of Rodney!)

I am hoping that comment from Ellis might lead to him giving Mccay slack next time he has to babble about tech..


And on a less romantic level Rodney realising that Fran was going to die. The look on Rodney's face made me want to cry. Now I'm waiting for Rodney to create another repli-Fran)

he did kind of look like he was regretting having to have her die for his plan to work..



-McKay is back!! (from Radek)

He got his Mojo again!!

What part you don't understand? It is not his place to worry about her unborn child. Her pregnancy is not putting the team at risk. When she gets to big to go on mission because she will slow them down then its time for her to sit it out if possible. But that is the only thing he needs to worry about. Her pregnancy is absolutely none of his business.

So wrong. In the US Military we have a set of rules regarding pregnant women, even in non combat areas. REGARDLESS of whether he is the father or not, since he is military and for her to be under his command she would have at least had to agree to follow our rules, her pregnancy IS most definatly his business.



I was under the impression that she was not contracted to Sheppard's military, being a Pegasus native and a leader of her people, and she can quit whenever she wants.

Yes she is pegasus native and can quit when she wants, but to be part of our military and to go out with our warriors she would have to agree to follow our rules..



Actually, in the military, it's a medical officer's job to say what a person can and can't do for any medical condition, including pregnancy. And that's all pregnancy is or should be to one's commander, unless he's the daddy.

Incorrect. There is an actual instruction in which part of it says once the female knows for certain she is pregnant, her command MUST be informed, that way they can start implementing restrictions on her job for her safety. Things like not standing up for too long, not lifting above a certain weight, not working in hazardous environs, not working too long etc..
Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) Instruction 1000.10

DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY (DON) POLICY ON PREGNANCY
F. A service woman who suspects she is pregnant is responsible for promptly comfirming her pregnancy through testing by an appropriate medical provider and informing her commanding officer of confirmation.

morjana
January 5th, 2008, 07:37 PM
S1 and S2 say otherwise ....

Recurring character means when the character's actor's name is not in the main series credits. Where David Nykl's name does show up in the EPISODE credits, his name does NOT appear in the SERIES credits. That is what makes him a recurring actor/character.

Morjana

Rosehawk
January 5th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Teyla is a rational as she ever was and Keller could not say anything without breaching doctor paitent privlege. The only reason she could is with Teyla's permition or reasonable cause to assume her life or others were in danger. As of yet there wasn't. Teyla was the one that needed to bring it to Sam or Shep.
I actually don't think Teyla was thinking rationally or else I do think she would have told Sheppard when she found out. I think her desire to find her people is clouding her good judgement, but that is just my opinion.
So even in the military a doctor can not say anything to a commanding officer without just cause - which I am assuming must be immient danger and not potiental danger to either Teyla or someone else. I would definitly consider a meeting with the Wraith as a situation that had a high potiental to go wrong.

Lord batchi ball
January 5th, 2008, 07:46 PM
We know from SG1 that the beamers have limited distance for penetration, just watch Avalon again. So maybe where the blob was covered the ZOM room so much the beams could not penetrate it.

Or they could just be more interested in the enemy ships shooting at them.

Rine
January 5th, 2008, 07:48 PM
Teyla was wrong not to mention it sooner, though I can understand her desire to find her people and the baby's father would put her emotions in major conflict. Sheppard's reaction was totally appropriate and he had every right to be upset.


Yeah, I can see why Teyla would want to hold off telling Sheppard so she can continue the search for her people. I imagine she must have been feeling a lot of internal conflict: she (I hope!) wants to protect her child, but then there is the desire to find her people and her baby's father. I'm not sure what I would so in her situation. Maybe I, too, would have not said anything. Hm...

Keller was walking a fine line, wasn't she? I can she her trying to uphold doctor/patient confidence but Teyla was putting herself in danger every time she went through the gate. If I had been the doctor, I would have said something to Sheppard or Carter. When Keller discovered that Teyla was pregnant, she now had two "patients"...the baby and Teyla. I feel that Keller should have acted in the baby's best interest and tried to protect mother and child from danger.

Mack_1
January 5th, 2008, 08:01 PM
I really like this episode.:zelenka25:

Ellis / Mckey / Carter scene was so good, Carter standing up for one of her people good, though Ellis was right in some aspects of what he said.:mckay::samanime15:

Teyla and John scene was well done(IMO) they are in the middle of a battle and the timing was just off, Teyla only told them because she had been stone not because she wanted to tell them she was force to do so, John was in his right to react that way(angry/upset/concern for and at Teyla) they are a team; she was supposed to tell him what was going on, she put the team at risk if for some reason she wouldn't/couldn't perform her duties as part of that team, and Carter agreeb with him, doesn't make her a drone she is thinking like a woman who knows that if Teyla keeps going into battle she can loose the baby and she agree with him cause he's the team leader and he is right to not keep exposing Teyla to more danger that he already had with out him knowing.(What I don't get, she is off duty jet she is off word next episode, according with the previews?):sheppard::teyla:

Mckey did his thing, been Mckey; at the end the Sam/Rodney team got together and they deliver (if in Sams part only talking with Mckey, although she did offer to go down to the planet to help).:sam::mckay:

Battle was awesome.:bratacanime13:

The Alliance was just to good.:weiranime17:

Weir at the end:weiranime42:, couldn't stop thinking about that scene between Fifth and reply Carter.:weir44:

And the "friendly Replicator" was really good, would like to see her again.:jack_new_anime07:

Sheppard flirting with Larrin, I hold my opinion on that.:sheppardanime23::mckay09:

Stupid thing of the episode:

John been tide to a chair, what was that about??:ronananime28:

funny scene:

wraith waking John up first and John telling Ronon, "They were scare of you":ronananime01:

Qoute:

Hello!:indeed:

Vapor
January 5th, 2008, 08:14 PM
I, uh.... um... FANGASM!

I really didn't know anything about this episode before watching it, so it was a huge surprise that we got everything we got here. I mean... wow.

Right off the bat, the fangasmic goodness began, as Daedalus and Apollo both dropped out of hyperspace together. Colonels Ellis and Caldwell in the same room together was something I didn't expect to see. Loved the intro scene "Colonel." "Colonels." "Colonel." :D

I brought up sometime after "Travelers" that it would be cool to see an all-put battle concerning all the powerful factions in the Pegasus Galaxy, but I didn't seriously believe that we would get anything like that. At least not so quickly. Which makes me love it even more. Because, while it's a mid-season premiere, it feels more like something they would have waited till the S4 finale to actually pull off, if at all. We're only halfway in, and we've already made HUGE changes.

Is it me, or did the Wraith scientist look and sound different? If so, I prefer the original actor, but after a while, I got used to it... unless I'm crazy and wrong, in which case, nevermind, kthanx. >_>

The big scene between Ellis and McKay was made of pure awesome. And Carter snapping back with a threat to keep Ellis off the base was unexpected, and great. That's basically why Carter is on Atlantis. To say cool sh** like that. And it is good.

Likewise, the mini-blowup by Shep about Teyla being pregnant was wonderful. I just thought of a way to keep Teyla badass and not make her a mom... Just miscarry the baby. Have a few eps with emo scenes, and she's back in fighting form. Problem solved!

Love Fran. I kept expecting something to go wrong and for her to go evil or something... which could still happen, actually.

It goes without saying that the space battle was amazing. Wraith, Travelers, Daedalus, Apollo, a Lantian warship versus Replicators. Good. effin. times.

Although, I do think it was a bit crazy for Shep & Friends to have dropped out of hyperspace with a small army of Wraith Ships and NOT expect to get shot up. I mean, come on. They're Wraith. I wouldn't be surprised if some virus or something was swimming around in the Puddle Jumper computer now. In fact, there SHOULD be some after-effects. They're WRAITH!

Aside from that little hiccup, I loved the ep from start to finish. The revelation that Robo-Weir is aboard a Lantian ship (with Travelers?) was cuh-razy, but hey, it means there's gonna be more Torri in the future, which rocks da house.

"Be All My Sins Remember'd" gets an A- from me.

Mekarri
January 5th, 2008, 08:28 PM
I disagree. Teyla is a member of a frontline team that has the most dangerous job in the universe. As her supperior she needed to tell him the moment she knew. She plaed her child and herself in unnecessary danger. He acted propeerly. The way he acted actually shows how much of a friend he is. He cares for her.....alot.


I really take offense at this since I was in the service. because she i military she is a drone? I'm sorry but that is very offensive not to mention completly innacurate.
Yes, I do have a child and if my friend was living in a a time of the wraith and wanted to fight while she pregnant, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Hell, the odds are they may die at the hands of the wraith anyway. It may not be what you would choose but you should have the right to choose for yourself. It is not his place to decide if she is putting her child in danger. She is a ADULT capable of rational thought. The decision she makes in reference to her unborn child is hers to make. Not Sheppard. His team isn't in any more danger if one twisted and ankle or got shot. Just because she is pregnant doesn't give anyone the right to think they can make that decision for her base on THEIR OWN BELIEFS. As I stated before if it wasn't for Teyla helping them in the beginning they could have got wipe out before they even knew what hit them remember Intel is as important as man power. If you go into anything blindly you will loose. You also said a friend would tell you if something was dumb. If they didn't ask your opinion I doubt you two would be friends much longer. A friend also need to know when to keep their mouth shut. And I don't remember her asking for his opinion . Obviously she didn't want his opinion or anyone else since she didn't tell him. So what if he is hurt for whatever reason. How is that her problem or something she should have to deal with? He still needs to get over himself. He is not responsible for her unborn child she is. I did not mean to offend you about the military because I think it is a brave thing to serve and protect your country but the higher up use soldiers as pawns and don't appreciate their sacrifice. Hell they don't even take care of them when they come home broken in one way or another. We are talking about SGA and although I don't trust nothing our government say or do that is just reality for me. Back to the subject on SG1 the teams use to do things that they knew was wrong just to follow orders. When someone give you an order to do something you know is wrong why should you do it if you are not a drone?
Remember it was Atlantis fault that the galaxy is in that mess. They didn't mean for it to happen but if you shoot someone accidentally they are still just as dead as if you did on purpose. The reason why is of little consolation for the dead person. This post if for Mitchell82 #383 and starfox #369

Rine
January 5th, 2008, 08:39 PM
It is not his place to decide if she is putting her child in danger. She is a ADULT capable of rational thought. The decision she makes in reference to her unborn child is hers to make.

I hope you don't mind me chiming in. I suppose I feel differently because I feel that the child and Teyla are seperate beings and both have rights. Teyla should have acted in the best interests of her child, who doesn't have much of a choice at this point. Sheppard has an interest in this situation because Teyla is under his command and he is not only responsible for her, but for the unborn child that she carries, in my opinion. Withholding that information from Sheppard wasn't a very nice thing to do, but I understand Teyla's reasonings for it--she wants to continue looking for her people. I think that if Teyla couldn't tell Sheppard (as she eluded to something like that in the ep) she should have gotten Keller to tell him.


You also said a friend would tell you if something was dumb. If they didn't ask your opinion I doubt you two would be friends much longer. A friend also need to know when to keep their mouth shut. And I don't remember her asking for his opinion . Obviously she didn't want his opinion or anyone else since she didn't tell him.

Personally, I would want my friends to be honest and truthful with me, even if their opinions weren't wanted or requested. If I thought my friend was doing something stupid/dangerous/irrational, I would tell her so. Otherwise, I feel like I'm not being a very good friend.

jpark143
January 5th, 2008, 08:42 PM
The weakness of the Replicator fleet is understandable as they are virtually ancients but ‘robots’ and that would mean they inherit all the positives and negatives of the ancients. It is common knowledge that the ancients were an arrogant race. And after the replicators winning countless battles with the wraith, having little to no information about the travellers as a people e.g. Tech and knowing that there are only 2 earth based ships in Pegasus and unbeknown to the fact that they have the asgard upgrades, this would lead to the replicators being over confident and underestimating the total power and force of the allies fleet. So there is no reason to believe that the replicators are in fact weak but in fact making the same mistakes and their creators being overconfident and arrogant.
Best space battle sequence ever! :D
:cool::sheppard::sam:

ladyjanus
January 5th, 2008, 08:50 PM
And this is why I love Stargate...

action, laughter, great characters, big explosions, lots and lots and lots of big guns, more action, zooming around in space, characters you love kicking butt and blowing up planets and ships and really, really bad bad guys by the thousands, a little tenderness, a little flirting, a whole lot of delicious geekiness saving the day...O wow...I'm getting woozy...I think I just gave myself a Gate-rush...

This ep did just exactly what it should have done. It Kept Me Entertained!!!

I give it a 9.9 out of 10. Only drawback? Where the frell was Lorne?!?!

ladyjanus

starfox
January 5th, 2008, 08:54 PM
@ Mekarri: I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, the situation we saw on the show boils down to three things.

1) Pregnancy makes you a liability in combat. There's a difference between a situation where you know you're going to die (e.g. being culled) and a situation where you're injured and fighting for your life while other people have to rescue you. Athosian women don't have to worry about damages from being stunned or culled because once it happens to them, they're dead anyway. There's no choice. Also, they don't go out looking for trouble the way the Atlantis team often does. Pregnancy puts strain on the body, puts you at higher risk for injury, gives people a stronger interest in watching your back, and makes you more likely to get yourself or someone else hurt in the field. Hence pregnant women in combat situations is a problem. Removing Teyla from active duty doesn't necessarily mean she can't go off-world; I would think it just means she can't go off-world in situations where people are likely to be shooting at them. Which makes perfect sense.

2) There are protocols in case for this type of thing, and like it or not, residents of the city have to follow them. We all have to follow the laws of whatever society we find ourselves in, whether it's our culture or not. Americans discover this all the time when they travel to foreign countries. Teyla knows this. No one's forcing her to stay in Atlantis; if something were bothering her past the point of being able to talk it out, she'd leave.

3) Sheppard's entitled to his emotions as is every human being. Teyla chose a crappy time to spring this on him, and I think it's completely understandable and human that he not take it all that well. If he turned into some simpering, congratulatory, baby-loving bootlicker, I'd wonder where the hell the real Sheppard had gone.


You obviously see it differently, but if everyone agreed, the world would be a boring place.

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 5th, 2008, 09:19 PM
The best episode of the season and one of the best episodes of Stargate ever made. For me, SGA episodes are mostly disappointingly predictable...This one wasn't. I loved it. I was doing a countdown at the end where I was completely convinced that the Wraith were going to turn up and bombard Atlantis to ruin the 'yay, we won' ending, but I was happily surprised when it didn't happen. :cameron:

I was satisfied completely with the out-of-no where ending...Reminded me of BSG and Lexx, two of my favourite shows. I liked the space battle, but I did want to see the Asurans firing thier weapons too as all we really saw was Atlantis and its 'allies' kicking ass and taking names.

The return of Larrin was nice, as everything she said could be interpreted as inuendo, much like Vala before her character became ruined after being in SG-1 too much;

- 'We could use you in my chair, Shepherd, we have an arsenal of drones but none of my guys can fire 'em quite like you can.'
- 'Last time we worked together, I said I'd let you keep a few secrets...but not anymore, if we do this...We go all the way, no holding back.'

I liked Fran (Female Replicator ANdroid) a lot, sure - she seemed a little plain but she was a replicator. It was sad to see her go, although she may come back (it is scifi, afterall). For once, I enjoyed a scene featuring Teyla - the scene where she confesses to her team mates about her pregnancy, it was just really well executed and I believe that John acted in a 'real' way, very professional...I wasn't a big fan of Ronan grabbing her by the hand and taking her off to the infirmary though, although it was probably only in there for the shippers...:cool:

So yeah, I was very happy with this episode. :)

PS; Larrin was gorgeous in it. :cameron:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n185/mappalazarou/vlcsnap-136239.png

Redhooks
January 5th, 2008, 10:49 PM
Aside from that little hiccup, I loved the ep from start to finish. The revelation that Robo-Weir is aboard a Lantian ship (with Travelers?) was cuh-razy, but hey, it means there's gonna be more Torri in the future, which rocks da house.
I don't think the bridge of the Travelers' Aurora was repaired/replaced before this episode because Larrin is in the Auxilary control room and not the bridge during the battle.
Thus it cannot be the Travelers' ship that Weir is on at the end.
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z147/redhooks/Misc/SGA%20Pics/BAMSR%20Screencaps/LarrininAuxControlRoom.jpg

Uranium118
January 5th, 2008, 11:15 PM
Awesome episode, the best of Atlantis' fourth season (yet)!

The space battle was epic. The entire episode was epic! I will definitely watch it again many times.

Redhooks
January 5th, 2008, 11:35 PM
I wonder why there were no Wraith Cruisers along with the Hive ships? The cruisers always accompanied Hive ships in the first season, but not afterwards as far as I remember. I wonder why? We have seen them occasionally by themselves or in pairs like in Aurora, Condemned, and Travelers. Maybe too many have been destroyed by the Replicators in the war? I sure would have helped in making the Replicator Auroras divide their fire on more ships.

corey2002
January 6th, 2008, 12:59 AM
finally!!!! magnets is actually the answer to something lol

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 6th, 2008, 01:32 AM
I'm confident that Liz Weir in the new replicator baddy. :cameron: Which is a nice turn...just so long as they don't turn it into another 'Michael and his army of super bugs'.

Pegasus_SGA
January 6th, 2008, 01:38 AM
My opinion on the Teyla pregnancy issue...she was wrong to not tell Sheppard and I completely understand his reaction.

What if you were the commander of a team and had to order people into the line of danger? How would you feel knowing that because of your order, a woman miscarried her baby? I would hate myself--I would feel responsible for the death of the child and angry at the mother for not being responsible.

Anyhow, that's just how I feel. Teyla should have told Sheppard immediately so she wouldn't have put her child in unnecessary danger. She could have restricted duties on base only. Being pregnant doesn't mean you can't do anything. It just means that you have to take precautions and protect yourself to protect your child.
I agree completely. Teyla should have told them earlier, but didn't for one reason or another. I think the reason she left it so long was because she honestly didn't know how to tell them. Given their situation, she probably knew that Shep would take her off active duty and going off world. He was upset with her, because it's his responsibility as Team leader to protect them all, and if anything happened to her and the baby he would have felt responsibility. That's his job. While I understand it may not be Teyla's way, or her culture to stop being a part in the community, I agree with Shep. She should have told him earlier, and that's why he was pissed. It wasn't that she is pregnant, it's that she could have hurt herself, the baby or placed the team in jeapordy.

Although i'm not military, i've worked alongside them for going on 13 years, and as soon as someone finds out they are pregnant, they have a duty to tell their superiors. And we're not even fighting aliens!! ;) Well, not yet anyway. :P

Pegasus_SGA
January 6th, 2008, 01:39 AM
finally!!!! magnets is actually the answer to something lol
:lol: :lol: :lol:

bluealien
January 6th, 2008, 02:45 AM
Yes, I do have a child and if my friend was living in a a time of the wraith and wanted to fight while she pregnant, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Hell, the odds are they may die at the hands of the wraith anyway. It may not be what you would choose but you should have the right to choose for yourself. It is not his place to decide if she is putting her child in danger. She is a ADULT capable of rational thought. The decision she makes in reference to her unborn child is hers to make. Not Sheppard. His team isn't in any more danger if one twisted and ankle or got shot. Just because she is pregnant doesn't give anyone the right to think they can make that decision for her base on THEIR OWN BELIEFS. As I stated before if it wasn't for Teyla helping them in the beginning they could have got wipe out before they even knew what hit them remember Intel is as important as man power. If you go into anything blindly you will loose. You also said a friend would tell you if something was dumb. If they didn't ask your opinion I doubt you two would be friends much longer. A friend also need to know when to keep their mouth shut. And I don't remember her asking for his opinion . Obviously she didn't want his opinion or anyone else since she didn't tell him. So what if he is hurt for whatever reason. How is that her problem or something she should have to deal with? He still needs to get over himself. He is not responsible for her unborn child she is. I did not mean to offend you about the military because I think it is a brave thing to serve and protect your country but the higher up use soldiers as pawns and don't appreciate their sacrifice. Hell they don't even take care of them when they come home broken in one way or another. We are talking about SGA and although I don't trust nothing our government say or do that is just reality for me. Back to the subject on SG1 the teams use to do things that they knew was wrong just to follow orders. When someone give you an order to do something you know is wrong why should you do it if you are not a drone?
Remember it was Atlantis fault that the galaxy is in that mess. They didn't mean for it to happen but if you shoot someone accidentally they are still just as dead as if you did on purpose. The reason why is of little consolation for the dead person. This post if for Mitchell82 #383 and starfox #369

This argument seems to be going around in circles but I will say again that it is his business because he is her comanding officer and she is on his team and has to follow his rules. She is not flying solo here and she is not amongst her own people.. He is responsible for everyone on his team and their welfare and he should be informed of anything that could pose a danger to his team. She is forcing him to send her into a situation which could potentially harm her unborn child, and you don't think he has a right to know that. It is his call to make if he decides that she shouldnt be placed in danger whilst carrying a child. If she doesn't like those rules or wants to do her own thing then she shouldn't be on his team.


If she was amongst her own people she could do what she liked and choose to put herself in as much danger as she liked but she is not. She is part of Sheppards team where her pregnancy could put one of his team members in danger... miscarriage is more likely to happen in the first three months of pregnancy than at any other time and you think that is not something that could not only endanger her life but those around her. She is in a dangerous high combat stressfull situation and she is watching their backs.. what happened if she started throwing up whilst in combat or got dizzy or had stomach cramps... all of which can happen in the first 3 months of pregnancy. And if she did miscarry because of something Sheppard ordered her to do, how do you think that would make Sheppard feel.

She cannot adopt an attitude that it is my body and my business because her condition does effect those around her. She has a duty to inform her commanding officer as she is part of a team, and has a responsibiltiy to that team, a team that relies on each member and they cannot keep secrets from each other that could potentially put the entire team at risk.

Libre
January 6th, 2008, 02:45 AM
Loved it. Classic Atlantis. Could do with less Sam, but I'm biased.
I, for one, liked Sheppard's reaction, not because I thought it was romantic but because it felt real. He cares about her deeply, as a team-mate, and was genuinely worried about her. Better than a flippant comment, which was what I feared they would do with him. Ronon made my heart melt with his reaction. And Ronon could be a pretty girl's name.

And Leather!Lizzie!!!!!!! hoooooooooooooottttttttt. Here's the question - is she (another) repli!weir or is she the real thing?! V. cool, either way.

runnerX
January 6th, 2008, 03:05 AM
Did anyone else notice that mental 302? It's at the bottom left of the screen at about 34:50, it does about 10 barrel roles for no apparent reason!
I thought he was hit.

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 6th, 2008, 04:29 AM
Loved it. Classic Atlantis. Could do with less Sam, but I'm biased.
I, for one, liked Sheppard's reaction, not because I thought it was romantic but because it felt real. He cares about her deeply, as a team-mate, and was genuinely worried about her. Better than a flippant comment, which was what I feared they would do with him. Ronon made my heart melt with his reaction. And Ronon could be a pretty girl's name.

And Leather!Lizzie!!!!!!! hoooooooooooooottttttttt. Here's the question - is she (another) repli!weir or is she the real thing?! V. cool, either way.

Well...the real one is almost all replicator anyway since nanites restored her after being shot in the face by a giant laser beam in First Strike. :cool:

Dusk
January 6th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Colonel Ellis (to Doctor McKay): "Doctor, you came into this meeting knowing that you had nothing. But instead of just saying that like a man, you thought that you'd dazzle us with a lot of fancy talk and think that we were too dumb to notice."

Best quote of the season so far!! I completely support it.

Was pleasantly surprised by the plot developments in this episode. The Battle of Asuras was neat, and FRAN really sucked (and I mean that in a good way). Weir's return was eyebrow-raising as well. Many seem to think she will become an enemy, however I did not get that feeling in any way. I believe they will become an independent offshoot with no direct threat to Atlantis.

Quick query for astronomy buffs: I thought Asuras was supposed to implode, not explode. From what I understand, the dense body should have become some form of compact star, and not shatter into a field of planetary debris.

But in the end, a satisfying start to season four's back half.

MechaThor
January 6th, 2008, 06:09 AM
THIS EPISODE WAS GOLD!
I don't think their was one thing I did not like!

So to the good stuff!
-REPLIZILLA! As a fan of the Japaneses (not american) Godzilla films I loved these referances to the King of the monsters, This was then exstended by the cameo Godzilla style roar the Replizilla made as it destroyed its city! All the effects for that where great and the concept was original (for stargate), the bit where it smashed its way out of the building was great!

-The Battle, This was EPIC, it felt like the space battles Star Wars are so famous for! It was soo well done, and cool looking, with little touches like two Auroa class ships smashing into ecah other when the replicator nanaties flew down to the planet! This is what the Camelot battle sould have been like.

-The Charahter stuff, Lots of great character stuff, both Huamn and Wrath. Highlights where the 4 colonals, mckay and sheppard, ronon and teyla after teylas annochment about the baby! Plus another classic Wraith joke.

-Insits into Wrath Culture, just a hint, But it appears the Queens work like Queen bees and do reproduct new wrath to replace fallen ones. Weather or not, as fully grown wraith or some kind of lava is yet unknown!

-The End, Very exciting! Is she good or bad?

If only Ark of Truth looked liek this dose, with epic battles, Shame.

10/10

VOOK
January 6th, 2008, 06:31 AM
Loved the episode, lots of action and lots of story development. Can't wait to watch again.

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 06:35 AM
If only Ark of Truth looked liek this dose, with epic battles, Shame.

It was called the Ark of Truth and not Space Wars. It is normal for them to focus on something else.

MechaThor
January 6th, 2008, 06:45 AM
It was called the Ark of Truth and not Space Wars. It is normal for them to focus on something else.

Yes but I was exspecting abit more than what we got! I maen after the Camelot build up, its should have worked up into something MASSIVE

Anyways, thats 4 another thread!

BAMSR was GREAT! 10/10.
Bring back Replizilla! Then maybe my banner can become real?

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 06:51 AM
Yes but I was exspecting abit more than what we got! I maen after the Camelot build up, its should have worked up into something MASSIVE

Anyways, thats 4 another thread!

BAMSR was GREAT! 10/10.
Bring back Replizilla! Then maybe my banner can become real?

You are more than welcome to take it in that thread :P


Seeing this thing again, and ignoring the CGI, paying attention to interaction and chemistry I noticed how laid back and chilled Caldwell was when Ellis was bursting his bubble. Caldwell seems to respect McKay and trusts him and his instinct ;)

rosey_angel
January 6th, 2008, 07:07 AM
i LOVED this ep! so much going on in one hour!

firstly, the battle scene was excellent. so much going on, the cgi was fantastic!

the 'mckay in a rut' gag and the "colonel" "colonels" bit were great tid bits of humour to lighten the mood

larrin kinda got on my nerves, but she wasn't in it so much, so i let it slide. i loved the shot where her ship burst out of hyperspace and almost smashed the poor little puddle jumper. i couldn't help but gasp out loud.

as for the wraith, WOW he was great. serious in the right places, funny in others. he and mckay get along so well, it's so interesting.

and speaking of mckay, it's great to see more time with he and zelenka. and FRAN? genius! i had a feeling he was gonna so something like that, but it was interesting to see her walking, talking. wanting a name? so cute.

i felt shep was a bit of a meanie to teyla. i understand she should have told him of her condition as soon as she found out, coz afterall he is her CO, but wouldn't keller have some sort of duty? i know dr/patient confidentiality but if she had somesort of mishap with the pregnancy on the field it could mean lives lost. but apart from that, he made it about himself! it was like "you let yourself-- you let me put you in that situation" come on shep! this time it isn't about you, so get off your high horse and be quiet.
at least ronon said congratulations, asked about the father, and walked with her to the infirmary.

i liked carter in this ep. yelling at ellis was a noble act, unfortunately mckay wasn't there to see she was standing up for him. but nonetheless the act was done, and hopefully both caldwell and ellis will think twice about berating any member of the atlantis expedition.

i was a little annoyed there weren't more scenes between caldwell and ellis. it would have been nice to see how they act together. but with so much in the ep it's understandable it couldn't fit in.

Fenrir Foxz
January 6th, 2008, 07:13 AM
You are more than welcome to take it in that thread :P


Seeing this thing again, and ignoring the CGI, paying attention to interaction and chemistry I noticed how laid back and chilled Caldwell was when Ellis was bursting his bubble. Caldwell seems to respect McKay and trusts him and his instinct ;)

yeah, although Caldwell has seen more of what McKay is capable of *good and bad* and wil have learned to trust him at least to a certain extent...

I get the impression that Ellis is caucious of trusting in other people and their abilities...

Jeyla4ever
January 6th, 2008, 07:16 AM
Yes but I was exspecting abit more than what we got! I maen after the Camelot build up, its should have worked up into something MASSIVE

Anyways, thats 4 another thread!

BAMSR was GREAT! 10/10.
Bring back Replizilla! Then maybe my banner can become real?
this is hilarious!!!! Love your sig!!!

I liked this episode but again, where was Teyla and Ronon! I need to see more of them and the team! I know things are getting shaken up with the team, but still...this was an opportunity to have Ronon do more and get more involved...has he not been learning more science with Rodney? LOL

Love just about everything else in the episode. Seeing Carter bring down Ellis...WOOHHOOOO! about time someone did! I just wished she had done it in front of Mckay, or that even John would have done something, but it really was the perfect timing.

Loved that Rodney created his own repli....Woohhoo! that has so many possibilities right there...

And was it me or did you guys noticed that the mentioning of the lack of Wraith Queens was in there for a reason? and then having Teyla in there and unconscious when the Wraith clearly could have done something to them. Todd dodged John's question of if they did anything else while they were unconscious and I just think that in itself can bring other possibilities!

The reveal!!! AW...how mixed feelings I have about this..and without sounding like a John and Teyla shipper, I loved John's reaction. It was fitting. And his broken words at time....*sighs* Sorry!

Ronon's reaction and his moment with Teya....AWWWWW! Gosh I'm loving this guy more and more...he's so damn soft and cuddly!

Evil Weir....LOOOOVE IT!

I sooo hope we get to see more of this Weir....I"m not even sure if she's evil but I LOVED HER ...she looked AWESOME! and I hope the writers do more with her character.

The visuals, the battles and the interactions were great, overall.

The only thing again...this was too much about John/Sam/Rodney and the writers better not do this too often. This has to go back to the team somehow and that's really what makes Atlantis for me!

I give it an 8/10.

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 07:32 AM
yeah, although Caldwell has seen more of what McKay is capable of *good and bad* and wil have learned to trust him at least to a certain extent...

I get the impression that Ellis is caucious of trusting in other people and their abilities...

I remember Caldwell had his doubts but he was way more diplomatic than Ellis. Mitch has something about him whenever he is in a scene. The way he spoke to Sheppard reminded me of the good old days in S2 and S3 :P. Seeing AOT and this one I must say Carter and Caldwell need to be together a bit to have proper interaction. For the moment, Carter and Cam > Carter and Caldwell. I am reffering strictly to the bridge scene in BAMSR and AOT. Ellis seems to have something stuck up his ass :P.

kirmit
January 6th, 2008, 07:34 AM
Don't know if anyone has said this but isn't the machine to create human form replicators a contradiction on whats been previously said? In 'Progeny' they said the Asurans evolved into human forms because they wanted to imitate their creators.

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 07:45 AM
Don't know if anyone has said this but isn't the machine to create human form replicators a contradiction on whats been previously said? In 'Progeny' they said the Asurans evolved into human forms because they wanted to imitate their creators.

Shhhh :P do not mention plot holes here :P. Unfortunately, in Progeny you have a scene where the first human replicator, Oberoth, was created in a lab and is surrounded by ancient scientists :P

jelgate
January 6th, 2008, 07:46 AM
I agree completely. Teyla should have told them earlier, but didn't for one reason or another. I think the reason she left it so long was because she honestly didn't know how to tell them. Given their situation, she probably knew that Shep would take her off active duty and going off world. He was upset with her, because it's his responsibility as Team leader to protect them all, and if anything happened to her and the baby he would have felt responsibility. That's his job. While I understand it may not be Teyla's way, or her culture to stop being a part in the community, I agree with Shep. She should have told him earlier, and that's why he was pissed. It wasn't that she is pregnant, it's that she could have hurt herself, the baby or placed the team in jeapordy. Although i'm not military, i've worked alongside them for going on 13 years, and as soon as someone finds out they are pregnant, they have a duty to tell their superiors. And we're not even fighting aliens!! ;) Well, not yet anyway. :PI think one factor that is being overlooked are the Athosians. I think Teyla has become accustomed to Earth policies and knows that if she told her CO (Sheppard) that she was pregnant that she would put off active duty. I think that nothing is more important to her than finding the Athosians and is a major drive on why she didn't tell Sheppard. I suspect your an alien Peg. In fact, I found a picture of youhttp://www.contactmusic.com/new/home.nsf/lookup/aliens9x22x08x03xxbox/$file/aliens9x22x08x03xxbox.jpg

kirmit
January 6th, 2008, 07:48 AM
Shhhh :P do not mention plot holes here :P. Unfortunately, in Progeny you have a scene where the first human replicator, Oberoth, was created in a lab and is surrounded by ancient scientists :P

I don't think that they created him, he was the first one to evolve into human form, so they were studying him :P.

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 07:52 AM
I don't think that they created him, he was the first one to evolve into human form, so they were studying him :P.

Shhhh! Don't say that :P. They'll throw stones at you :P

MechaThor
January 6th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Don't know if anyone has said this but isn't the machine to create human form replicators a contradiction on whats been previously said? In 'Progeny' they said the Asurans evolved into human forms because they wanted to imitate their creators.

Maybe once the nanaties had evolved into the 1rst human form replicator, they built the table device seen in this ep?

Mckay did not have alot of nanties, yet he made a human form rep, why did he not just make something still complex much smaller like a hamster, a dog or a small goat? Or a a baby human?

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 07:54 AM
Maybe once the nanaties had evolved into the 1rst human form replicator, they built the table device seen in this ep?


Sounds all nice and super but it is a conjecture and we have no tangible evidence :P


*good thought tho :P *

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 08:15 AM
Sounds all nice and super but it is a conjecture and we have no tangible evidence :P


*good thought tho :P *

2 words *blind faith* :P

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 08:21 AM
2 words *blind faith* :P

Not you too Brutus :P. Do you want us kicked out of here :P. Play along :D

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 08:37 AM
Not you too Brutus :P. Do you want us kicked out of here :P. Play along :D

Me? Never! :D

Anyway, I am going to go watch BAMSR again - the title's cool. Now I need some HD screencaps from this episode.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 08:50 AM
I'm not sure I have much to say other than ... blah!

A few points maybe:

+ McKay going "seriously" - I giggled
+ McKay and Zelenka playing with the blob in the hopes of creating a block which ends up in FRAN - I smiled
+ Ellis chewing out McKay - I cheered
++ Ronon being supportive of Teyla - there were several aw's
+ the planet exploding looked neat
++ the best 10 seconds of the episode were the end with Weir, and in my opinion the one and only Dr. Elizabeth Weir
+ Todd is the new Steve and I like it

- the revealing of Teyla's pregnancy - yeah right, a little too late and done in a bit of a hurry ... Oh yeah, btw... come on! :mckay:
- the Sheppard & McKay show is now a fact
- the space battle just didn't reach the quality I expect from a battle - the creators of this should have taken a good look at the one in Serenity with the Reavers and the Alliance ships, and Serenity somewhere in the middle
- John "Kirk" Sheppard - Larrin bending over and continuing the sexual innuendo in the briefing room
- Carter chewing Ellis out - I half expected Ellis to burst into laughter, that's how ridiculous it looked. If you compare that to Elizabeth chewing out Caldwell, my goddess, Carter has lots to learn about looks saying more than words.
- lack of Teyla is getting seriously on my nerves, and I can only expect it to become less and less... well, she doesn't even reach past 2 minutes of on screen so why should I still bother with this show.
(inner voice: "Remember you stuck through Heroes because of Hiro, you can do it again!" *keeps repeating that*)
EDIT
- the technobabble .... waste of a perfectly good explanation, now in English please

I wasn't in the least bit impressed, not by a long shot. The only time I gasped was when the planet exploded cause that was a nice effect but beyond that... *shakes head* ...no, thank you. I think I'm gonna find me a new show to get attached to. Might stick it out to the end, after all, if TPTB should read these reviews and see only the good stuff they might actually think they're doing great... And yet, I know they just ignore the bad critics cause after all, what do they know?

*is very disappointed*

On the notion of Weir and a possible return in season 5. I don't settle with less than 10 episodes and with the way things look right now, that's not going to happen. TPTB can either choose to go the Ford way and let her disappear forever and all eternity, or bring her back for maybe a few episodes and use these replicators as the Atlantis version of the Tok'ra (SG1-nization continues). They are obviously not the enemy, that's for sure. Something tells me they will be the Tok'ra, minus the split personality.

Arlessiar
January 6th, 2008, 08:51 AM
And was it me or did you guys noticed that the mentioning of the lack of Wraith Queens was in there for a reason? Yup. I saw the preview for Spoils of War, and suddenly the comment, which stood out anyway, made sense.

Bye, A.

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 08:51 AM
Me? Never! :D

Anyway, I am going to go watch BAMSR again - the title's cool. Now I need some HD screencaps from this episode.

Nice soliloquy innit? :D Unfortunately not very original because Andromeda already had an episode called like this :P.


We share the same misfortune :P Dag nabbit :P. There I go again :P

PantheraLeo
January 6th, 2008, 09:23 AM
wow..i have to say, Be All My Sins Remember'd has finally put SGA on par with SG1, at least for now. And Weir in that awfully cool dress?? Man, things are really being ramped up. This is by far my most favourite SGA episode ever.

And as for Teyla, she was being very irresponsible. Real world politics aside, no person in the right mind would either go into the battlefield pregnant or for that matter commanding a pregnant woman. It's totally insane. This is not about "my body, my problem" kind of issues. This is about what we might call as decency/civility/rationality.

Think about it. You would get booked or even arrested by the police for driving with excessive alcohol levels in the middle of the night on an empty road. You can't just say "It's my problem" and get it over with can you?

And this Weir thing? Well, looks like we have a lot to learn about her faction. I'm wondering how it will all fall into place. Remember in the episode "Lifeline" when they get on the Replicator homeworld and steal the ZPM and at the end when they leave Weir behind and end up in the Apollo and then Sheppard asks Ellis to beam Weir up but they can't find her? That's got a lot of explaining to do. : )

Oh oh, you want to know something? The moment I saw Fran I immediately said "Oh my GOD!!" (not exactly softly either) realising that Rodney created a human-form Replicator. This was even before Zelenka said "oh my..." That was so funny.

Klenotka
January 6th, 2008, 09:34 AM
I just noticed one totally stupid thing that I loved :D How quickly Chuck dialed the address :lol: I was flattered :D It looked like he is typing on the keyboard and he was so professional in the dialing :D He almost danced at the console :D
I love Chuck :D

jelgate
January 6th, 2008, 10:23 AM
I'm not sure I have much to say other than ... blah!A few points maybe:+ McKay going "seriously" - I giggled+ McKay and Zelenka playing with the blob in the hopes of creating a block which ends up in FRAN - I smiled+ Ellis chewing out McKay - I cheered++ Ronon being supportive of Teyla - there were several aw's+ the planet exploding looked neat++ the best 10 seconds of the episode were the end with Weir, and in my opinion the one and only Dr. Elizabeth Weir+ Todd is the new Steve and I like it- the revealing of Teyla's pregnancy - yeah right, a little too late and done in a bit of a hurry ... Oh yeah, btw... come on! :mckay:- the Sheppard & McKay show is now a fact- the space battle just didn't reach the quality I expect from a battle - the creators of this should have taken a good look at the one in Serenity with the Reavers and the Alliance ships, and Serenity somewhere in the middle- John "Kirk" Sheppard - Larrin bending over and continuing the sexual innuendo in the briefing room- Carter chewing Ellis out - I half expected Ellis to burst into laughter, that's how ridiculous it looked. If you compare that to Elizabeth chewing out Caldwell, my goddess, Carter has lots to learn about looks saying more than words.- lack of Teyla is getting seriously on my nerves, and I can only expect it to become less and less... well, she doesn't even reach past 2 minutes of on screen so why should I still bother with this show. (inner voice: "Remember you stuck through Heroes because of Hiro, you can do it again!" *keeps repeating that*)EDIT- the technobabble .... waste of a perfectly good explanation, now in English pleaseI wasn't in the least bit impressed, not by a long shot.?*The only time I gasped was when the planet exploded cause that was a nice effect but beyond that... *shakes head* ...no, thank you. I think I'm gonna find me a new show to get attached to. Might stick it out to the end, after all, if TPTB should read these reviews and see only the good stuff they might actually think they're doing great... And yet, I know they just ignore the bad critics cause after all, what do they know?*is very disappointed*On the notion of Weir and a possible return in season 5. I don't settle with less than 10 episodes and with the way things look right now, that's not going to happen. TPTB can either choose to go the Ford way and let her disappear forever and all eternity, or bring her back for maybe a few episodes and use these replicators as the Atlantis version of the Tok'ra (SG1-nization continues). They are obviously not theT enemy, that's for sure. Something tells me they will be the Tok'ra, minus the split personality.I have a question for you FH. Don't you think that RL pregnancy might be affecting the amount of screentime Teyla is getting. I know see is now your favorite.character but I think your overlooking her the status of the actor who plays Teyla. Besides she has not had less screentime than when she was in S2 and S3. So basically you will not be satsified until Weir is back in Atlantis because thats the only way that she is going to get ten. There is no way TPTB will have her "forded" because of the fact that the auidence knows for certain that Weir is alive while we never found out Ford's condition. I know I am late buthttp://www.coffeeexpert.com/birthday-cake.jpg

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 10:56 AM
Don't you think that RL pregnancy might be affecting the amount of screentime Teyla is getting. I know she is now your favorite character but I think your overlooking her the status of the actor who plays Teyla. Besides she has not had less screentime than when she was in S2 and S3.

Teyla has always been a fave of mine, though second fave to Kate. :)
And she's been getting less and less screentime since day 1. I'll post the findings of my research once I'm done and I'm pretty sure some people here are going to have to swallow some of their statements whole.

And I know Rachel would have been doing less, but it's getting quite ridiculous to say the least. If they want her out, they should just end it now and not drag it out till eternity.


So basically you will not be satsified until Weir is back in Atlantis because thats the only way that she is going to get ten.

Probably not, but I have survived until now. The only thing I'm pretty peeved about is, that she's not even in the credits (not the opening credits, that's not what I mean). She has ten seconds in this episode, yet she's not even mentioned with the guest actors. She has been on the show for three years and she doesn't even get a Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir, or special guest star (though I guess that's only for RDA). I think I pretty much know enough to realize we won't see Weir again in any capacity other than maybe 2 episodes, and Torri has already mentioned she wants to come back if it's good. So those two will have to be worth it.


There is no way TPTB will have her "forded" because of the fact that the auidence knows for certain that Weir is alive while we never found out Ford's condition.

It's not too late, though TPTB apparently assumed everybody sorta knew Ford blew to kingdom come.


I know I am late buthttp://www.coffeeexpert.com/birthday-cake.jpg

Thanks! :D

kirmit
January 6th, 2008, 10:59 AM
Shhhh! Don't say that :P. They'll throw stones at you :P

Gonna hate me for this one then, Hives hyperdrives are much slower than ours so even though they left the meeting place at the same time as our ships shouldn't they of arrived later?

Tal-Galahad
January 6th, 2008, 11:02 AM
Probably not, but I have survived until now. The only thing I'm pretty peeved about is, that she's not even in the credits (not the opening credits, that's not what I mean). She has ten seconds in this episode, yet she's not even mentioned with the guest actors. She has been on the show for three years and she doesn't even get a Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir, or special guest star (though I guess that's only for RDA). I think I pretty much know enough to realize we won't see Weir again in any capacity other than maybe 2 episodes, and Torri has already mentioned she wants to come back if it's good. So those two will have to be worth it.


I`m saying this as a film-fan in general and a fan of Atlantis in particular: Mentioning Elizabeth with the guest actors would have been the most stupid thing ever done by TPTB ever...simply because it would have spoiled the great ending for sure.

It would be nice if you would take a second look before acusing TPTB of something they didn`t do wrong.

Thanks...

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 11:07 AM
I`m saying this as a film-fan in general and a fan of Atlantis in particular: Mentioning Elizabeth with the guest actors would have been the most stupid thing ever done by TPTB ever...simply because it would have spoiled the great ending for sure.

It would be nice if you would take a second look before acusing TPTB of something they didn`t do wrong.

Thanks...

How is spoiling one's name in the beginning the end? :S

You had no idea she was going to be in the end. I really don't see the problem. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since from the way you post you are convinced you are absolutely right. :)

Tal-Galahad
January 6th, 2008, 11:17 AM
How is spoiling one's name in the beginning the end? :S

You had no idea she was going to be in the end. I really don't see the problem. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since from the way you post you are convinced you are absolutely right. :)


Ever seen Se7en? Kevin Spacey showed a great understanding of creating tension and surprise by demanding, not to be mentioned in the opening credits. That is how you are creating an Aha-effect.

Mentioning her in the opening credits would have caused, that everyone would have been waiting for her. Like this no one expected her and the ending was perfect.

In fact, I`m convinced of my opinion, simply because I know I`m right in every way of good filmmaking. ;)

ashman2
January 6th, 2008, 11:21 AM
How is spoiling one's name in the beginning the end? :S

You had no idea she was going to be in the end. I really don't see the problem. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since from the way you post you are convinced you are absolutely right. :)

It's a trick that is used every once in a while on 24 and about a dozen other shows. It's so that there is as little chance as possible of people not being surprised by the sudden appearance of the character. By putting the name in the opening credits, anyone who reads it will expect to see that character at some point.

jelgate
January 6th, 2008, 11:27 AM
How is spoiling one's name in the beginning the end? :S

You had no idea she was going to be in the end. I really don't see the problem. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since from the way you post you are convinced you are absolutely right. :)

Its for suspense reason. Like in Jolinar's Memories when Apophis name wasn't in the main credits.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 11:38 AM
Ever seen Se7en?

Yes, unfortunately I had to watch it twice. Never again, I promise you.


Kevin Spacey showed a great understanding of creating tension and surprise by demanding, not to be mentioned in the opening credits. That is how you are creating an Aha-effect.

Good for him. you can also reach an Aha-effect (like that, gonna give you green for it) with good writing.

Edit: It seems I have been spreading too much green, I'll have to wait a few more ours before I can green again.


Mentioning her in the opening credits would have caused, that everyone would have been waiting for her. Like this no one expected her and the ending was perfect.

Apart from the casual viewers, pretty mych everyone else knew she'd be in this episode. Not when but she would be.


In fact, I`m convinced of my opinion, simply because I know I`m right in every way of good filmmaking. ;)

Good for you. When can I expect a film made by you in theatre?

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 11:44 AM
How many people actually pay close attention to the credits? Beginning or the end. It would've been respectful to Torri to have her name on the credits. Then again, maybe I expect too much. They did take her out of the opening credits in the very first episode after all.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 11:46 AM
How many people actually pay close attention to the credits? Beginning or the end. It would've been respectful to Torri to have her name on the credits. Then again, maybe I expect too much. They did take her out of the opening credits in the very first episode after all.

I do. But I'm observative like that.

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 12:05 PM
Gonna hate me for this one then, Hives hyperdrives are much slower than ours so even though they left the meeting place at the same time as our ships shouldn't they of arrived later?

For the sake of our future in this thread, :P, let's assume they were using Aurora hyperdrive data :P. Don't know why I have the feeling that the Asgard hyperdrives are faster than the Aurora ones :P. Thor was crossing Galaxies in a very short time :P. So your argument still stands :P


Its for suspense reason. Like in Jolinar's Memories when Apophis name wasn't in the main credits.


The guy writing the credits had not space left for Weir :P. They used it all with the CGI programmers :P.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Don't know if anyone has said this but isn't the machine to create human form replicators a contradiction on whats been previously said? In 'Progeny' they said the Asurans evolved into human forms because they wanted to imitate their creators.

Like that poster said, they might have started creating human-form reps only after the initial batched turned themselves humanoid, figuring that it'll be a better venture then just creating little nanites.

Oh, and evidence? This episode. :p

rpmguitar
January 6th, 2008, 12:12 PM
torrie higginson was mentioned in the end credits. i for one am very glad they waited until the end credits to name her. would have spoiled the twist ending for me.

as for BAMSR in general, AWESOME episode. season 4 really has been impressive. only problem is how can they top this? if the rest of the season can keep it up this will possibly be the best season of the whole stargate franchise.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 12:18 PM
^There, at least one person who was surprised.

I was surprised too, actually. Obviously I didn't know for sure if Torri was gonna be in it, even though I had a hunch.

And for those casual viewers who don't go online, they were surprised too.

Geez people, I think you should think this through before thinking the worst (which you're so good at). It's a very common way of crediting surprise guests. There was another time on Star Trek Deep Space Nine, in the episode Heart of Stone (I think), when the actress playing the Female Founder wasn't revealed in the credits, because it was supposed to be a twist the the Kira that Odo was talking to was the Founder all this time.

Then there was the time in Atlantis's very own "Submersion" when Andee Frizzell wasn't credited near the beginning since the existence of the Wraith Queen was supposed to be a twist.

It's in no way a disrespect. The fact that you guys didn't know this shows perfectly why JM would call you "uninformed", because it's true.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 12:18 PM
The guy writing the credits had not space left for Weir :P. They used it all with the CGI programmers :P.

I ran out of green, so virtual green for that.


torri higginson was mentioned in the end credits. i for one am very glad they waited until the end credits to name her. would have spoiled the twist ending for me.

I didn't have the end credits, for my version is an illegal one. And by then it's no longer necessary to mention she was in the episode... We already saw her. Pointless!

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Geez people, I think you should think this through before thinking the worst (which you're so good at).

I, for one, didn't think the worst... wouldn't know of what anyway ... but anyway, it appears I'm the only to be thinking it's disrespectful to someone who has spend three years on a show to end up, apparently, in the end credits because they wanted the element of surprise...


The fact that you guys didn't know this shows perfectly why JM would call you "uninformed", because it's true.

Thank you for the compliment.

Mekarri
January 6th, 2008, 12:27 PM
@ Mekarri: I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, the situation we saw on the show boils down to three things.

1) Pregnancy makes you a liability in combat. There's a difference between a situation where you know you're going to die (e.g. being culled) and a situation where you're injured and fighting for your life while other people have to rescue you. Athosian women don't have to worry about damages from being stunned or culled because once it happens to them, they're dead anyway. There's no choice. Also, they don't go out looking for trouble the way the Atlantis team often does. Pregnancy puts strain on the body, puts you at higher risk for injury, gives people a stronger interest in watching your back, and makes you more likely to get yourself or someone else hurt in the field. Hence pregnant women in combat situations is a problem. Removing Teyla from active duty doesn't necessarily mean she can't go off-world; I would think it just means she can't go off-world in situations where people are likely to be shooting at them. Which makes perfect sense.

2) There are protocols in case for this type of thing, and like it or not, residents of the city have to follow them. We all have to follow the laws of whatever society we find ourselves in, whether it's our culture or not. Americans discover this all the time when they travel to foreign countries. Teyla knows this. No one's forcing her to stay in Atlantis; if something were bothering her past the point of being able to talk it out, she'd leave.

3) Sheppard's entitled to his emotions as is every human being. Teyla chose a crappy time to spring this on him, and I think it's completely understandable and human that he not take it all that well. If he turned into some simpering, congratulatory, baby-loving bootlicker, I'd wonder where the hell the real Sheppard had gone.


You obviously see it differently, but if everyone agreed, the world would be a boring place.
I think you are right. I agree to disagree. Maybe you see 3 months pregnant as a liability but I don't. When it come to survival pregnancy doesn't come into play. You do what you have to do. Maybe her being pregnant is their problem not hers. Teyla is an ADULT and a leader of her people. She didn't ask for any special attention or treatment from them. She should be the only one at this stage in her pregnancy to decide what is to dangerous for her. ( Or is she brain dead due to pregnancy?) I didn't know that was a side effect of pregnancy. Again, you are pushing your beliefs as to what a pregnant woman should or should not be allow to do as if all of a sudden she needs him or anyone else to make that decision for her. I agree as she get further into her pregnancy she should and will take a break if it is possible for the reason she will slow them down. Her world isn't safe with or without Atlantis expedition. As a matter of fact, the Atlantis expedition is the reason her world is even more dangerous. Why does she owe him or anyone else an explanation at this point? It seem a lot of people act as if when a woman get pregnant, everybody have a say in decisions that she makes for herself and her unborn child, as if all of a sudden she is too stupid to decide on a course of action for herself. Why should he take on the responsibility of feeling guilty about what happens to her unborn child? That responsibility belong to Teyla. Why does everyone think that their way is the right way. She and all the other people in the galaxy should want to put a foot up their (Atlantis)collective asses for the position they are in.. I guess I have always been the type a woman to take responsibility for my actions and my decisions. I've been pregnant and I made decisions that was best for me. I would not allow anyone to make decisions as to what they think is best for me or MY unborn child. I guess what really gets to me, is that this isn't their world or galaxy. They have a choice to go home if things get too hot. But Tayla and Ronon doesn't have that choice but they suppose to charge in take over with their beliefs and ideas when people like Teyla and Ronon will be left holding the bag. Yea right. As always, Americans are so arrogant and self righteous. Like our way is the best and only way things should go down. It would be nice to see them treating the people in that galaxy as equals and the one who have the most to loose. But the SGA came there and created more of a threat for the people in that galaxy and then they have the nerve to think these people should follow their rules without question. If it wasn't for them, the unborn child everyone is whining about protecting would not be in as much danger. So if john feels so responsible for the life of Teyla unborn child being in danger then why doesn't he take on that burden for all the other children that the Atlantis people have put in harms way? Teyla could leave and really the level of respect or lack of she should leave. Teyla and Ronon owes Sheppard or his team no explanation about their personally lives. And again, Shepperd need to get over himself.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 12:27 PM
That's just how the industry works. Sorry if you thought otherwise. Viewer satisfaction with the creative product (i.e. not spoiling the twist) is more important than...well, many things. That's why there were very harsh laws against people who, say, stole a copy of the last Harry Potter book and started spreading the ending across the 'net.

Again, it wasn't intended to disrespect.

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 12:36 PM
I do. But I'm observative like that.

You must have one eye closed in S4. :P

prion
January 6th, 2008, 12:44 PM
^There, at least one person who was surprised.

I was surprised too, actually. Obviously I didn't know for sure if Torri was gonna be in it, even though I had a hunch.

And for those casual viewers who don't go online, they were surprised too.

Geez people, I think you should think this through before thinking the worst (which you're so good at). It's a very common way of crediting surprise guests. There was another time on Star Trek Deep Space Nine, in the episode Heart of Stone (I think), when the actress playing the Female Founder wasn't revealed in the credits, because it was supposed to be a twist the the Kira that Odo was talking to was the Founder all this time.

Then there was the time in Atlantis's very own "Submersion" when the Andee Frizzell wasn't credited near the beginning since the existence of the Wraith Queen was supposed to be a twist.

It's in no way a disrespect. The fact that you guys didn't know this shows perfectly why JM would call you "uninformed", because it's true.

Um, please do not disrespect other people because they may not know the hierarchy of tv credits. There have been many discussions on it, but most people don't know about how they're set up, and frankly, most people don't care either (at least when it comes to viewers as opposed to fans).

And amazingly, it's the 'uniformed' who keep people like Mallozzi employed ;)

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 12:46 PM
^There, at least one person who was surprised.

I was surprised too, actually. Obviously I didn't know for sure if Torri was gonna be in it, even though I had a hunch.

And for those casual viewers who don't go online, they were surprised too.

Geez people, I think you should think this through before thinking the worst (which you're so good at). It's a very common way of crediting surprise guests. There was another time on Star Trek Deep Space Nine, in the episode Heart of Stone (I think), when the actress playing the Female Founder wasn't revealed in the credits, because it was supposed to be a twist the the Kira that Odo was talking to was the Founder all this time.

Then there was the time in Atlantis's very own "Submersion" when the Andee Frizzell wasn't credited near the beginning since the existence of the Wraith Queen was supposed to be a twist.

It's in no way a disrespect. The fact that you guys didn't know this shows perfectly why JM would call you "uninformed", because it's true.

I know you like JM and everything, but give the rest of the people who actually watch the show & pay his paycheck some credits. Because w/o the "uninformed" his show would be canceled.

ann_sgcfan
January 6th, 2008, 12:55 PM
How many people actually pay close attention to the credits? Beginning or the end. It would've been respectful to Torri to have her name on the credits. Then again, maybe I expect too much. They did take her out of the opening credits in the very first episode after all.

I do pay attention to the credits to see who will be in there... Christopher Heyerdahl's name was displayed on the screen for Miller's Crossing I kept waiting for him to show up...and sure enough when they called for someone to help McKay it was already predictable who it was going to be... and made it less enjoyable for me... so in Friday nights episode I was very glad Torri's name wasn't in the opening credits for two reasons.. 1) I don't read spoilers so I had no idea she was supposed to be in the episode... 2) It would have completely ruined the surprise ending which made a great episode even better! It opens so many possibilities for the Weir character... so I for one am looking forward to it... Great episode!

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 12:59 PM
You must have one eye closed in S4. :P

Sometimes even two. :p

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 01:05 PM
I do pay attention to the credits to see who will be in there... Christopher Heyerdahl's name was displayed on the screen for Miller's Crossing I kept waiting for him to show up...and sure enough when they called for someone to help McKay it was already predictable who it was going to be... and made it less enjoyable for me... so in Friday nights episode I was very glad Torri's name wasn't in the opening credits for two reasons.. 1) I don't read spoilers so I had no idea she was supposed to be in the episode... 2) It would have completely ruined the surprise ending which made a great episode even better! It opens so many possibilities for the Weir character... so I for one am looking forward to it... Great episode!

I enjoyed this episode too. I My point is, not this episode in particular, but back to when she was taken out in the first episode. There's been many conversations over this. I don't want to go into it anymore. It's just that I tend to remember things that ticked me off.

p.s. I knew Weir would be in one more episode, but didn't know exactly which one. I read many speculations, but nothing concrete for me to think this would be it.

jelgate
January 6th, 2008, 01:08 PM
Sometimes even two. :pI think you.ve got S2 mixed up with S4:P:P. I should point out that my dad is a casual viewer who watches it regularly?* but doesn't watch the fan sites. He was shocked by Weir's appearence like I was. I understand that Weir is your favorite character but it would ruin the suspense for the fan and the casual viewers. We all had our theories on Weir's foruth episode but we didn't have?* any spoilers for her 4th episode to confirm our theories.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Um, please do not disrespect other people because they may not know the hierarchy of tv credits. There have been many discussions on it, but most people don't know about how they're set up, and frankly, most people don't care either (at least when it comes to viewers as opposed to fans).

Well then, my comments are to educate those who do. ;)

And frankly, I think it's disrespectful to TPTB to assume they're disrespecting Torri just because her name wasn't at the top of the show. Wrongfully accused and all that schtick, you know...


And amazingly, it's the 'uniformed' who keep people like Mallozzi employed ;)



I know you like JM and everything, but give the rest of the people who actually watch the show & pay his paycheck some credits. Because w/o the "uninformed" his show would be canceled.

While that's true for the most part, it doesn't really require much effort on our part, does it? Plop our butt down in front of the TV (or the computer, in my case) and get an hour of entertainment. Big deal. Until this changes and we have to use some effort to pay their paychecks, I don't think fandom deserves any special treatment just because we watch the show.

General Burro
January 6th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Holy "lots of things going on in this episode" batman.
Teaming up with the wraith, the travelers, and creating their own human form replicator, and Teyla finally revealing her pregnancy.

Couple of things though, the replicators must have detected that huge fleet headed towards them, why did they not raise shields allowing mckay and crew to beam into the city to complete their mission?

Shepards reaction to Teyla's pregnancy was quite abrupt, "You are releaved from active duty!" But I totally loved that ronon was there to console her, and held her hand as they walked to the infirmary, awww!

And finally the ending, holy crap, is Weir goinig to be an enemy now?

but is that asuran weir or nanite infected weir. either way not done with the asurans

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Well then, my comments are to educate those who do. ;)

And frankly, I think it's disrespectful to TPTB to assume they're disrespecting Torri just because her name wasn't at the top of the show. Wrongfully accused and all that schtick, you know...

While that's true for the most part, it doesn't really require much effort on our part, does it? Plop our butt down in front of the TV (or the computer, in my case) and get an hour of entertainment. Big deal. Until this changes and we have to use some effort to pay their paychecks, I don't think fandom deserves any special treatment just because they watch the show. .
I don't think most people are asking for special treatment. Commenting on his blog (which he knows is popular amongst fans) how the people who question any decisions associated with the show are ill informed & basically lemmings, is not the right way to do it either. He enjoys provocation. Simple. When a show runner takes such "pleasure" in provocating the fans, it can't end well - can it?
I apologize, this is not the right thread for this line of discussion.

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 01:16 PM
Sometimes even two. :p

Power naps are always a good idea.

General Burro
January 6th, 2008, 01:16 PM
fran was insanly hot and very willing to help. i hate mckay more cuz he let her die. MAKE ANOTHER ONE!!!!!!

best ep ever. even better than my fave sg1 eps. DAMN FRAN WAS HOT

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 01:20 PM
I think you've got S2 mixed up with S4:P:P.

No, I'm pretty sure I haven't. I'm currently watching season 2 and I have yet seen 8 episodes and none of them bored me half to death.


I understand that Weir is your favorite character but it would ruin the suspense for the fan and the casual viewers.

Third fave.
Oh, so you're saying I'm not a fan. :S


We all had our theories on Weir's foruth episode but we didn't have?* any spoilers for her 4th episode to confirm our theories.

JM said first half of the season and he counts BAMSR as first half, so.... case closed. Oh yeah, right... casual viewers don't know that.


Well then, my comments are to educate those who do. ;)

Good for you. You need to work on your way of teaching though.


And frankly, I think it's disrespectful to TPTB to assume they're disrespecting Torri just because her name wasn't at the top of the show. Wrongfully accused and all that schtick, you know...

Mmm, let me think... Nope, I got nothing. Sorry.

I'm probably expecting too much.


Plop our butt down in front of the TV (or the computer, in my case) and get an hour of entertainment.

Unfortunately that's not how my brain works.

jelgate
January 6th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Third fave.Oh, so you're saying I'm not a fan. :SNote to self,Make sure not to generalize. I meant to say many fans
JM said first half of the season and he counts BAMSR as first half, so.... case closed. Oh yeah, right... casual viewers don't know that.Are you mocking me? I don't visit his blog (I read the summaries on the blog thread) but in terms of production aren't the first eleven episodes always considered in the first half regardless of the season.

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 01:33 PM
Good for you. You need to work on your way of teaching though.

No, I don't think I'll be doing that.




Mmm, let me think... Nope, I got nothing. Sorry.

I'm probably expecting too much.

If you mean you're expecting too much from the entire filming industry, then yeah, I agree with you.

Seriously, this is how it works, as we've shown through all those examples within and without the Stargate franchise.


Unfortunately that's not how my brain works.

Then how does it work? How much effort do you put in while watching the show?

parisindy
January 6th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Sometimes even two. :p

amen... and it keeps getting worse
weir won't be back she's been forded

Wilson3Girl
January 6th, 2008, 01:37 PM
I remember Caldwell had his doubts but he was way more diplomatic than Ellis. Mitch has something about him whenever he is in a scene. The way he spoke to Sheppard reminded me of the good old days in S2 and S3 :P. Seeing AOT and this one I must say Carter and Caldwell need to be together a bit to have proper interaction. For the moment, Carter and Cam > Carter and Caldwell. I am reffering strictly to the bridge scene in BAMSR and AOT. Ellis seems to have something stuck up his ass :P.

I definitely think Ellis came off as impatient in First Strike, and let's face it, in dealing with Rodney, there are times that you need patience. However, in BAMSR, he crossed the line when he used the term "if you were a man....." Over the line. End of story. Up until that point, he had every right to call McKay on the carpet for calling the meeting when he didn't have his work completed, but then he went too far by making that statement.
Many, many of us have had to endure meetings where co-workers have blathered on about things and come to no conclusion. Would it be proper for us to interrupt that colleague and say, "You know Jane, I don't really see the need for this meeting unless you have something concrete to offer, surely our time could be better spent on other things......." Sure. But to say, "Jane, you called us here for nothing and have wasted our time! How can you even call yourself a woman?!" That one will probably get us a slap on the wrist from our boss. As it should be.

I wasn't upset with Shep for not saying anything in Rodney's defense in that scene. It was Sam's job to do that and she did it----quite well. I thought she was quite intimidating in that scene and I didn't see Ellis laughing it off at all. And yes, he did get right back on Rodney's case in later scenes--and that's fine, Rodney can take care of himself--- but Ellis did not get out of line again. So again I say, Go Sam!!

I like Caldwell very much (points to icon). I think he would've handled McKay and that situtaion completely different. Most likely he would've cut Rodney off with a curt "Doctor McKay......your point?"
Maybe Ellis will grow on me. As I said in my earlier post, I did like the back and forth stuff between he and Rodney before Ellis crossed the line...and he did seem impressed when the plan worked: "Son of a *****! It worked!" (or words to that effect).


Wilson3Girl

Pegasus_SGA
January 6th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Ok I just have one thing to say before this thread goes to hell!



MODS!!!


Too Much?? :P

Aethon
January 6th, 2008, 01:41 PM
I just saw this, I decided I would rather be up to date with the episodes so I could discuss on American forums and avoid spoilers, in Sweden the last aired episode is 4x2, just saw 4x3-4x11

What can I say? Nice genius-idea mckay! Finally he had a truly fantastic idea, and he also gave someone else credit and props, calling Sam a genius as well as himself.

Nice ending, what can I say go Darth Weir!

Linzi
January 6th, 2008, 01:42 PM
I do pay attention to the credits to see who will be in there... Christopher Heyerdahl's name was displayed on the screen for Miller's Crossing I kept waiting for him to show up...and sure enough when they called for someone to help McKay it was already predictable who it was going to be... and made it less enjoyable for me... so in Friday nights episode I was very glad Torri's name wasn't in the opening credits for two reasons.. 1) I don't read spoilers so I had no idea she was supposed to be in the episode... 2) It would have completely ruined the surprise ending which made a great episode even better! It opens so many possibilities for the Weir character... so I for one am looking forward to it... Great episode!
I totally agree. I always read the credits, and the surprise would have been spoiled for me too had Torri's name been there, though I did have a pretty big hunch she would appear, to be honest.

My understanding is that actors agree to those terms about not being in the opening guest credits if their name being there would ruin a surprise in the episode. Obviously any actor would be more than happy not to spoil the viewers enjoyment of the episode, I'm sure, and that's why they'd agree. Everything that happens is written into contracts or verbal agreements, with the actor's agreement. So it's nothing to do with disrespecting the actor, it's about pleasing and maximising the viewing audience's enjoyment of the episode. :)

Cautious Explorer
January 6th, 2008, 01:57 PM
I wasn't upset with Shep for not saying anything in Rodney's defense in that scene. It was Sam's job to do that and she did it----quite well. I thought she was quite intimidating in that scene and I didn't see Ellis laughing it off at all. And yes, he did get right back on Rodney's case in later scenes--and that's fine, Rodney can take care of himself--- but Ellis did not get out of line again. So again I say, Go Sam!!

I guess I don't understand Carter's role here. As McKay's boss, did she have no idea what progress had or hadn't been made? I find it hard to believe he hadn't provided her with regular reports. Now he stands in a briefing hedging about that progress and Carter stands there and says nothing. He dithers on a bit longer, and still Carter says nothing. Ellis shouldn't have had to jump in at all. Carter should have been guiding that meeting IMO. There would have been no reason for her little performance with Ellis if she had done her job in the first place.


I like Caldwell very much (points to icon). I think he would've handled McKay and that situtaion completely different. Most likely he would've cut Rodney off with a curt "Doctor McKay......your point?"
Maybe Ellis will grow on me. As I said in my earlier post, I did like the back and forth stuff between he and Rodney before Ellis crossed the line...and he did seem impressed when the plan worked: "Son of a *****! It worked!" (or words to that effect).

Agreed. Caldwell is a commander and knows how to take charge of the situtation. That's something Carter has yet to figure out.




I totally agree. I always read the credits, and the surprise would have been spoiled for me too had Torri's name been there, though I did have a pretty big hunch she would appear, to be honest.

My understanding is that actors agree to those terms about not being in the opening guest credits if their name being there would ruin a surprise in the episode. Obviously any actor would be more than happy not to spoil the viewers enjoyment of the episode, I'm sure, and that's why they'd agree. Everything that happens is written into contracts or verbal agreements, with the actor's agreement. So it's nothing to do with disrespecting the actor, it's about pleasing and maximising the viewing audience's enjoyment of the episode. :)

And yet there was no problem with spoiling the plot line when Torri was completely removed from the opening credits before her character was written out of the show.

Linzi
January 6th, 2008, 02:04 PM
I guess I don't understand Carter's role here. As McKay's boss, did she have no idea what progress had or hadn't been made? I find it hard to believe he hadn't provided her with regular reports. Now he stands in a briefing hedging about that progress and Carter stands there and says nothing. He dithers on a bit longer, and still Carter says nothing. Ellis shouldn't have had to jump in at all. Carter should have been guiding that meeting IMO. There would have been no reason for her little performance with Ellis if she had done her job in the first place.


Agreed. Caldwell is a commander and knows how to take charge of the situtation. That's something Carter has yet to figure out.





And yet there was no problem with spoiling the plot line when Torri was completely removed from the opening credits before her character was written out of the show.
Did it spoil it though? She was in the guest credits, so people knew she was still there - if they read the credits, as I do. My feeling is the only people who really scrutinise the credits are dedicated fans, and let's be honest, most of us knew exactly what was happening to Weir's character - she was being reduced. She wasn't, however, removed from the show. I guess it could have been a bit of a spoiler that AT was in the opening credits though. But, again, all of this is done for contractual reasons. Anyway, this is all a little OT.

I, for one, was pleased that Torri's name wasn't in the guest credits at the beginning of the episode, otherwise I'd have known she was in the episode and it would have spoiled my enjoyment of BAMSR to a certain extent.

P-90_177
January 6th, 2008, 02:06 PM
I guess I don't understand Carter's role here. As McKay's boss, did she have no idea what progress had or hadn't been made? I find it hard to believe he hadn't provided her with regular reports. Now he stands in a briefing hedging about that progress and Carter stands there and says nothing. He dithers on a bit longer, and still Carter says nothing. Ellis shouldn't have had to jump in at all. Carter should have been guiding that meeting IMO. There would have been no reason for her little performance with Ellis if she had done her job in the first place.

Well I think Carter is used to giving McKay a little leeway. As was mentioned in that ep he had been off his game so carter was probably used to having him pull one out of the fire every time. She also knows he tends to waffle on to make himself sound more important. The fact that he wouldn't report to her about everything is also not that surprising since no doubt she's also used to letting him have things his own way and letting him do things in his own time. Ellis may have been right about mckay but he still shouldn't have said it the way he did. He isn't under his command.


Agreed. Caldwell is a commander and knows how to take charge of the situtation. That's something Carter has yet to figure out.

Well i think she knows how to take charge of the situation but caldwell obviously has more experience as commander of deadalus and as being in a command posistion.

Falcon Horus
January 6th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Note to self,Make sure not to generalize. I meant to say many fans

Dang, he talks himself back out. :p I would green you, but I ran out.


Are you mocking me?

Nope, self-mockery. Humor is my defence mechanism. Sorry, if it felt like I was.


...but in terms of production aren't the first eleven episodes always considered in the first half regardless of the season.

Okay then... I guess so.


If you mean you're expecting too much from the entire filming industry, then yeah, I agree with you.

No, just Stargate at the moment. But the entire industry could be included if you want.


Then how does it work? How much effort do you put in while watching the show?

What? Are you kidding me? You turn your brain off while watching the episodes. Mine is constantly working, thinking about what happens on screen. How is something happening? What's the reason? Trying to figure out what McKay is doing?

Oh look, continuity error. Cool background! Hey look, that watch switched wrists. Oh, continuity error again.

My brain is always active... If I sit down and find what I'm watching mindnumbing I usually turn it off. Then you will say, why are you still watching SGA? Because I managed to sit through Heroes because of Hiro. I can do it again with Atlantis, Teyla being my Hiro...and maybe who knows I'll find something I like.


Ok I just have one thing to say before this thread goes to hell!



MODS!!!


Too Much?? :P

Just enough. I'm pretty sure I'm high on the delete-list, but I do care....not in the least.


I just saw this, I decided I would rather be up to date with the episodes so I could discuss on American forums and avoid spoilers, in Sweden the last aired episode is 4x2, just saw 4x3-4x11

Wow, Sweden has shown season 4? :eek:

Cautious Explorer
January 6th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Did it spoil it though? She was in the guest credits, so people knew she was still there - if they read the credits, as I do. My feeling is the only people who really scrutinise the credits are dedicated fans, and let's be honest, most of us knew exactly what was happening to Weir's character - she was being reduced. She wasn't, however, removed from the show. I guess it could have been a bit of a spoiler that AT was in the opening credits though. But, again, all of this is done for contractual reasons. Anyway, this is all a little OT.

I, for one, was pleased that Torri's name wasn't in the guest credits at the beginning of the episode, otherwise I'd have known she was in the episode and it would have spoiled my enjoyment of BAMSR to a certain extent.

Did it give me a clue that the gravely injured Weir in season three was going to be dumped out of Atlantis in season four by replacing her in the credits with Carter? Did that replacement clue me in that Carter was going to be more than a guest star in season four? Of course it did.

Skydiver
January 6th, 2008, 02:15 PM
People, the topic is BE ALL MY SINS REMEMBER'D

It is NOT which fan group is better
which fan group is worse
who's a git
who's a saint
who's a 'true fan'
who's not a 'true fan'

The topic is the episode. If you cannot discuss the episode with respect towards your fellow members (which also happens to be the rules of this forum, speaking with respect) then maybe you should take your rule breaking comments elsewhere.

Discuss the episode

PG15
January 6th, 2008, 02:17 PM
No, just Stargate at the moment. But the entire industry could be included if you want.

I do want that, since that problem you cited applies to the entire industry.

Which is what I'm trying to get you to understand so you don't just blame the Stargate guys. ;)


What? Are you kidding me? You turn your brain off while watching the episodes. Mine is constantly working, thinking about what happens on screen. How is something happening? What's the reason? Trying to figure out what McKay is doing?

Oh look, continuity error. Cool background! Hey look, that watch switched wrists. Oh, continuity error again.

My brain is always active... If I sit down and find what I'm watching mindnumbing I usually turn it off. Then you will say, why are you still watching SGA? Because I managed to sit through Heroes because of Hiro. I can do it again with Atlantis, Teyla being my Hiro...and maybe who knows I'll find something I like.

Oh ok, that's not the "effort" I'm talking about (and why is everyone trying to guess what I'm gonna say? Am I that predictable?! :p). By "effort", I mean something you don't like doing, or it's hard work. I.e. the cast and crew of Stargate work their asses off day in and day out to produce the stuff we watch. THAT's effort. For us, we like what we see, and usually we like discussing and thinking about what's in the show. It's not costing us anything except a few joules of energy thinking about all of it. Basically, we don't have to *work* to watch the episodes; it gets delivered to us, and gives us an hour of entertainment and fodder for new thoughts.

And yeah, I think about that stuff too.

EDIT: Oops, didn't see your comment there Sky. This will be my last post on this.

Pegasus_SGA
January 6th, 2008, 02:19 PM
People, the topic is BE ALL MY SINS REMEMBER'D

It is NOT which fan group is better
which fan group is worse
who's a git
who's a saint
who's a 'true fan'
who's not a 'true fan'

The topic is the episode. If you cannot discuss the episode with respect towards your fellow members (which also happens to be the rules of this forum, speaking with respect) then maybe you should take your rule breaking comments elsewhere.

Discuss the episode
Wow I know I have a big mouth, but didn't realise it stretched to other continents. :D I need to learn in future to use my powers more wisely.

Thanks oh wise and wonderful mod, I shall remember that in future! Was that enough sucking up? ;) :P :D For once it wasn't me that started it, it was the boys fault, they're such trouble makers, you just can't take them anywhere. ;)

*runs out before she gets slapped*

prion
January 6th, 2008, 02:19 PM
I guess I don't understand Carter's role here. As McKay's boss, did she have no idea what progress had or hadn't been made? I find it hard to believe he hadn't provided her with regular reports. Now he stands in a briefing hedging about that progress and Carter stands there and says nothing. He dithers on a bit longer, and still Carter says nothing. Ellis shouldn't have had to jump in at all. Carter should have been guiding that meeting IMO. There would have been no reason for her little performance with Ellis if she had done her job in the first place.


Good point. I can't see Carter NOT telling McKay to supply her with regular reports on his progress, and I also can't see McKay lying saying "almost there" either. However, the scene seemed a setup to toss in exposition, set up the military aspect of let's blow this thing up, and for Carter to stand up for her 'people.'

Aethon
January 6th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Wow, Sweden has shown season 4? :eek:

Yup, we are fast space monkeys :D

Sweden is not a no-name country, we got balls!

Pegasus_SGA
January 6th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Good point. I can't see Carter NOT telling McKay to supply her with regular reports on his progress, and I also can't see McKay lying saying "almost there" either. However, the scene seemed a setup to toss in exposition, set up the military aspect of let's blow this thing up, and for Carter to stand up for her 'people.'
To be honest, I didn't think Ellis was that bad, i've had worse chewing out than that. So while I liked the fact that Sam stuck up for McKay, I did think it was a little OTT, and Mckay was going on and on and on, he's like the energizer bunny :D

rarocks24
January 6th, 2008, 02:24 PM
I loved this episode. The character interaction was great, the plot was great, though there were some plotholes, but when are there not?

I'm sad to say this, but, I enjoyed the battle scene more than Return of the Jedi's.

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 02:24 PM
Good point. I can't see Carter NOT telling McKay to supply her with regular reports on his progress, and I also can't see McKay lying saying "almost there" either. However, the scene seemed a setup to toss in exposition, set up the military aspect of let's blow this thing up, and for Carter to stand up for her 'people.'

Right. I was like, what kind of commander are you, when you don't know your people are not close to a solution, and just called a meeting for the meetings sake. If only there were donuts, I'd understand.

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 02:26 PM
People, the topic is BE ALL MY SINS REMEMBER'D

It is NOT which fan group is better
which fan group is worse
who's a git
who's a saint
who's a 'true fan'
who's not a 'true fan'

The topic is the episode. If you cannot discuss the episode with respect towards your fellow members (which also happens to be the rules of this forum, speaking with respect) then maybe you should take your rule breaking comments elsewhere.

Discuss the episode

That always brings Mike Myers flashback to me. :D I will try to be on topic.

Cautious Explorer
January 6th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Good point. I can't see Carter NOT telling McKay to supply her with regular reports on his progress, and I also can't see McKay lying saying "almost there" either. However, the scene seemed a setup to toss in exposition, set up the military aspect of let's blow this thing up, and for Carter to stand up for her 'people.'

It's kind of sad. If they'd just write a scene or two with Carter actually doing her job -- consulting with McKay, taking charge of the meeting -- there wouldn't be any need for the grandstanding (Woolsey/Ellis) to "prove" that Carter is in command.


To be honest, I didn't think Ellis was that bad, i've had worse chewing out than that. So while I liked the fact that Sam stuck up for McKay, I did think it was a little OTT, and Mckay was going on and on and on, he's like the energizer bunny :D

I completely agreed with Ellis. McKay was wasting everyone's time. But I thought that one of the favorable aspects of Carter being in command was supposed to be her ability to communicate on a scientific level with McKay. She didn't do that at all. She seemed to have no idea what was going on. This is where I missed Zelenka. He has a way of cutting to the chase when McKay starts rambling.

morjana
January 6th, 2008, 02:36 PM
Gonna hate me for this one then, Hives hyperdrives are much slower than ours so even though they left the meeting place at the same time as our ships shouldn't they of arrived later?

Maybe the ships stopped and waited for the Hive ships to catch up before they made the final jump to the Replicator planet?

Morjana

justhere1971
January 6th, 2008, 02:37 PM
It's kind of sad. If they'd just write a scene or two with Carter actually doing her job -- consulting with McKay, taking charge of the meeting -- there wouldn't be any need for the grandstanding (Woolsey/Ellis) to "prove" that Carter is in command.

I completely agreed with Ellis. McKay was wasting everyone's time. But I thought that one of the favorable aspects of Carter being in command was supposed to be her ability to communicate on a scientific level with McKay. She didn't do that at all. She seemed to have no idea what was going on. This is where I missed Zelenka. He has a way of cutting to the chase when McKay starts rambling.

Even though Rodney's "dressing down" was sort of warranted in my view, I still don't like Ellis. He's abrasive and just irritating to me.

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Sky, where art thou? :P

Mitchell82
January 6th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Yes, I do have a child and if my friend was living in a a time of the wraith and wanted to fight while she pregnant, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Hell, the odds are they may die at the hands of the wraith anyway. It may not be what you would choose but you should have the right to choose for yourself.
THis is hardly the place to begin a pro choice or pro life discussion I do agree she should be able to choose what to do with her life and child however in this case you are gravely mistaken.



It is not his place to decide if she is putting her child in danger. She is a ADULT capable of rational thought. The decision she makes in reference to her unborn child is hers to make. Not Sheppard. His team isn't in any more danger if one twisted and ankle or got shot. Just because she is pregnant doesn't give anyone the right to think they can make that decision for her base on THEIR OWN BELIEFS.
Wrong. Her condition puts herself and child in danger not to mention the rest of the team if they have to pay more attention to her rather than the mission. Like it or not Teyla is part of their staff now and in the military she would have been pulled off active duty right away. This is Shepards call to make.

As I stated before if it wasn't for Teyla helping them in the beginning they could have got wipe out before they even knew what hit them remember Intel is as important as man power. If you go into anything blindly you will loose. You also said a friend would tell you if something was dumb. If they didn't ask your opinion I doubt you two would be friends much longer. A friend also need to know when to keep their mouth shut. And I don't remember her asking for his opinion . Obviously she didn't want his opinion or anyone else since she didn't tell him. So what if he is hurt for whatever reason. How is that her problem or something she should have to deal with? He still needs to get over himself. He is not responsible for her unborn child she is.
Again wrong. She is under his command hence hi responsibilty. I do see your point and if this was a typical issue about womens rights I'b be on the sidelines marching along side you. But in this case Shep is responsible for the lives of veryone on his team which now includes an unborn child.

I did not mean to offend you about the military because I think it is a brave thing to serve and protect your country but the higher up use soldiers as pawns and don't appreciate their sacrifice. Hell they don't even take care of them when they come home broken in one way or another.
I realize that now I know you meant no offense.

rarocks24
January 6th, 2008, 02:40 PM
Even though Rodney's "dressing down" was sort of warranted in my view, I still don't like Ellis. He's abrasive and just irritating to me.

Ellis is the character you love to hate. You love the fact that he's on your side and not on the other. He realizes what time constraints are and what he feels needs to be done. He's very similar to Caldwell. The problem is, he hasn't really been featured much, so when they use him like they use Caldwell, we hate it. We're not going to have a military ship captain that's going to agree with us all the time.

Klenotka
January 6th, 2008, 02:41 PM
fran was insanly hot and very willing to help. i hate mckay more cuz he let her die. MAKE ANOTHER ONE!!!!!!

best ep ever. even better than my fave sg1 eps. DAMN FRAN WAS HOT

:rolleyes:
I liked Fran, too but...hate McKay for what?
"We will let Asurans destroy us and the rest of the galaxy but Fran has to live!" Come on...

Nice discussion here btw., it took me thirty minutes to get through it :D I like GW, it keeps me busy for whole day :D

Cautious Explorer
January 6th, 2008, 02:44 PM
Even though Rodney's "dressing down" was sort of warranted in my view, I still don't like Ellis. He's abrasive and just irritating to me.

Ellis could be a good character if he weren't doomed to the same character treadmill as Woolsey. Show up, be confrontational, get a dressing down from Weir or Carter and learn the error of his ways while allowing the leader to prove she'll stand up for her people and Atlantis.

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 03:04 PM
Ellis could be a good character if he weren't doomed to the same character treadmill as Woolsey. Show up, be confrontational, get a dressing down from Weir or Carter and learn the error of his ways while allowing the leader to prove she'll stand up for her people and Atlantis.

what's wrong with standing up for your people?

morjana
January 6th, 2008, 03:06 PM
It's a trick that is used every once in a while on 24 and about a dozen other shows. It's so that there is as little chance as possible of people not being surprised by the sudden appearance of the character. By putting the name in the opening credits, anyone who reads it will expect to see that character at some point.

Or another example of being "spoiled" is from the sixth season episode, "Unnatural Selection." In the opening credits, they listed as a credit for Jeff King for a "story excerpt" Knowing that Jeff King wrote "Cold Lazarus," I immediately had a feeling that somehow Charlie (Jack's son) was going to be involved in this episode...and when the scene from "Cold Lazarus" popped up, I wasn't that surprised.

But hey, that's me, the rememberer of odd bits and pieces.

(What day is today?)

For me, I'm glad that Torri's name was NOT in the opening credits. Her appearance at the end of the episode was a surprise to me, and I enjoyed the feeling.

:)

Morjana

Integrabyte
January 6th, 2008, 03:06 PM
what's wrong with standing up for your people?

I could ask you the same thing :P

Libre
January 6th, 2008, 03:09 PM
On the matter of Teyla, I thought the Athosians point was a good idea - women would still be quite active in the community until (presumably) their bodies prevented them from doing so, because they were too big, etc.

As leader of her people, it was undoubtedly important for her to do that, but when you also consider that she could currently be the *last* Athosian, it's probably even more important to her.

Did anyone think that at times, Ellis was also a parody of a "drill-Sargent" type character?

rarocks24
January 6th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Did anyone think that at times, Ellis was also a parody of a "drill-Sargent" type character?

Yes.

parisindy
January 6th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Ellis is the character you love to hate. You love the fact that he's on your side and not on the other. He realizes what time constraints are and what he feels needs to be done. He's very similar to Caldwell. The problem is, he hasn't really been featured much, so when they use him like they use Caldwell, we hate it. We're not going to have a military ship captain that's going to agree with us all the time.

nah i just hate him... caldwell i loved to hate... ellis i just hate

morjana
January 6th, 2008, 03:18 PM
How many people actually pay close attention to the credits? Beginning or the end. It would've been respectful to Torri to have her name on the credits. Then again, maybe I expect too much. They did take her out of the opening credits in the very first episode after all.

I don't think it was a matter of respect or disrespect.

Torri was listed in the end credits with just Torri Higginson -- no character's name after her name -- as a solo listing -- I thought that was marvelous.

It prevented the fans from knowing too soon she'd be in the episode, and identified her with her singular credit.

Morjana

Wilson3Girl
January 6th, 2008, 03:22 PM
To be honest, I didn't think Ellis was that bad, i've had worse chewing out than that. So while I liked the fact that Sam stuck up for McKay, I did think it was a little OTT, and Mckay was going on and on and on, he's like the energizer bunny :D

I disagree. He shouldn't have said "if you were a man......", those are fighting words. :) That took it to a nasty level. Sure, chew him out for being unprepared and wasting time, but do it in a more professional manner. Cut him off, tell him to get to the point, whatever. Maybe it was a scene set up to make Carter look good to the fans. Regardless, Ellis' behavior was rude and over the line imho. If one of my co-workers had brought an argument down to that level with me I wouldn't have backed down either, and I'm glad Rodney didn't. I also have to mention that I liked how Shep calmly told Rodney to "move on" with an expression that seemed to say (at least to me) "Let it go, this guy is being an ass....." yomv. :)


Wilson3Girl

morjana
January 6th, 2008, 03:22 PM
what's wrong with standing up for your people?

I think it was more of Carter standing up for herself.

Ellis was insulting Carter's command by reprimanding McKay in that briefing, in front of ANOTHER Colonel (Caldwell), McKay and Shep, and Carter being there.

Morjana

Watcher
January 6th, 2008, 03:27 PM
I'm seeing a lot of comments about the replicators ships not fighting as hard as they could have. The Aurora class ships are 10k years old. They can't be top of the line forever. The replicators are able to "replicate" the Aurora class ships exactly as they were built 10k years ago, but I doubt they added any upgrades to those vessels. Now the Earth battle cruisers have Asguard weaponry they are superior in firepower against the Aurora class.

The Asguards have been around until recent events and they have been pushing their technology for 10k years after the Ancients have stopped advancing. Asguard weapons should be better than the Ancients'. They had 10k years to surpass them!

As for the other ships, I agree that there should have been more allied ships lost fighting the Auroras. From what I saw, one hive and one Traveler vessel was destroyed. More should have gone down to make the fight more believable. Also, I'm glad that none of the Earth ships were lost. Earth only have 3! They need a chance to build a fleet and can't afford losses right now.

The only explanation I could come up with to justify the replicators poor fighting tactics is perhaps the Auroras were short on supplies considering they were hard at work building more ships. It's also possible that they were undermanned.

Why didn't the replicators detect the fleet coming? Good question. I have no idea ...

Finally, I think the Weir introduced at the end is evil. Based on the way shows are written, you don't introduce good characters at the end of the show before fading to black unless you want to reveal that they survived an ordeal. Hence they're not really being introduced. Movie writers always introduce evil characters along with their one liners, which is exactly what happened at the end of this episode. I’d say 9/10 that Weir character shown was evil. Whether she is the original Weir gone bad by the nanites in her system, or a full replicated copy, she's definitely evil. She may not know that yet, because I believe she's part of the group seeking ascension, but one way or the other she's going to do bad things in her attempts to find the answers to ascension.

She’s going to be far more dangerous than Oberoth’s group simply because she knows the Atlantis group very well, thus she’s going to be able to take advantage of their weaknesses for some time to come.

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 03:27 PM
How many people actually pay close attention to the credits? Beginning or the end. It would've been respectful to Torri to have her name on the credits. Then again, maybe I expect too much. They did take her out of the opening credits in the very first episode after all.

so? what's the big deal? the opening credits are for regular characters, she's a recurring character in s4 thus doesn't need to be in those credits


I could ask you the same thing :P

lol yeah you're right :P


I think it was more of Carter standing up for herself.

Ellis was insulting Carter's command by reprimanding McKay in that briefing, in front of ANOTHER Colonel (Caldwell), McKay and Shep, and Carter being there.

Morjana

you're certainly right, it wasn't just about how he addressed Rodney. it's Carter's command and by talking like that to him Ellis automatically insulted her too. I thought it was a well done scene and showed what kind of a leader she is

Aethon
January 6th, 2008, 03:31 PM
I think it shows Sams secret and supressed feelings for rodney :D

Jumper_One
January 6th, 2008, 03:35 PM
I think it shows Sams secret and supressed feelings for rodney :D

lol I really hope you're not serious