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View Full Version : Imagine a wraith feeding on a nanite manufactured human...



Kribby
December 8th, 2007, 08:55 AM
Hi,

I am wondering something...

if a wraith were to feed off a nanite manufactured human could the nanites *heal* the human if the wraith stopped just prior to death?


-K

SierraGolf-OneNiner
December 8th, 2007, 10:17 AM
Hi,

I am wondering something...

if a wraith were to feed off a nanite manufactured human could the nanites *heal* the human if the wraith stopped just prior to death?


-K

Good question. I wish I knew. It would probably kill the wraith during feeding.

Ripple in Space
December 8th, 2007, 12:15 PM
yeah^

Kribby
December 8th, 2007, 12:17 PM
hmm that would be neat...


a whole planet of fake people that could kill the wraith if they were ever culled--

that would be a far *nicer* type of warfare than wiping out human worlds...

IcyNeko
December 8th, 2007, 12:21 PM
The wraith woudl figure it out and annihilate the planet.

Argosy
December 8th, 2007, 01:53 PM
I had given this some thought while I was watching the episode last night & it was explained that the team were flesh & blood with nanites aiding in their regenerative abilities.

I would think that if the Asurans (I hate when they are called Replicators) are truly interested in ascension & the soul is the X ingredient to get them one step closer to achieving that goal, then it would be a no brainer for them to just make human bodies for them selves (using their avatars as a template for how they would author their DNA to achieve the form that they are accustomed to) since they already have demonstrated that they have no problem manufacturing one from scratch.

Hell they could achieve both of their objectives by doing this…

They could take on the human form augmented by the nanites and neutralize the Wraith by becoming their alternate form of sustenance.

The nanites could repair the damage to the human bodies & the Wraith would no longer have a need to harness actual humans for food.

I would think that this would be the most enlightened thing to do since the alternative is total genocide of the Wraith, & possibly their food supply before them (the Pegasus humans that are being exterminated by Oberoths forces).

Would that not be a win-win-win for all parties involved, as well as a giant leap for the Asurans as a whole?

I suspect that this evolution of both form & sensibility would definitely put them on the path to ascension.

It would certainly make for an interesting conclusion to the show to have both main villains pacified by giving them a symbiotic relationship.

But what do I know…I am high on decongestants after all LOL.

Shiro
December 8th, 2007, 02:17 PM
I don't think that Wraith would be able to feed on artificially manufactured humans, as they need natural life energies.

It'd be like trying to eat a plastic carrot, rather than the real thing.

I'm also not sure that the nanites would be able to heal the body quick enough to keep up with the Wraith sucking out the life, even if they could heal or repair a body's life source.

P2J
December 8th, 2007, 02:19 PM
it would feed for a few seconds until it realized it doesn't have any life force

2ndgenerationalteran
December 8th, 2007, 02:26 PM
i thought that was what would happen in millers crossing, rodney gets fed on but left with enough energy to stay alive, wraith finishes the coding, rodney is injected and fully healed.

Argosy
December 8th, 2007, 02:35 PM
Did you two miss the part where the bogus Keller said that the duplicate Weir & crew did indeed have souls?

“Every thing is quantifiable” were her worlds when she was having the conversation about the human soul being the X-factor in there study of the human duplicates. This would indicate to me that they are capable of making the determination that yes the duplicate humans do have a soul.

They were in the process of testing their hypothesis that the human soul that flesh and blood humans posses was the missing ingredient for ascension.

Just because a human is the product of technology dose not negate the possibility of them having a soul.

If that were the case then all the humans in the Milky Way would be soulless (with the exception of those who have some Lantean ancestry) since the Dekara device created them.

P2J
December 8th, 2007, 02:37 PM
then what excalty is a soul?

Argosy
December 8th, 2007, 02:50 PM
then what excalty is a soul?

Darned if I know. I didn’t build the Dekara device or write the show so I have no clue LOL.

This question has been posed to far wiser men for millennia & I think it has still gone without a satisfactory answer all this time, so I doubt the answer is going to be found on a sci-fi message board.

“The truth is out there”, but not in here LOL.

P2J
December 8th, 2007, 02:51 PM
i just think it would be odd a machine would have a soul

Argosy
December 8th, 2007, 03:00 PM
i just think it would be odd a machine would have a soul

Who you telling man LOL?

It is far fetched, but within the framework of the show we are discussing anything is possible.

I would think that even if you didn’t take what the Bogus Keller said as gospel then at least you would accept their willingness for noble self-sacrifice at the end of TMC as testament to the fact that they had souls.

garhkal
December 8th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Hell they could achieve both of their objectives by doing this…

They could take on the human form augmented by the nanites and neutralize the Wraith by becoming their alternate form of sustenance.

The nanites could repair the damage to the human bodies & the Wraith would no longer have a need to harness actual humans for food.

I would think that this would be the most enlightened thing to do since the alternative is total genocide of the Wraith, & possibly their food supply before them (the Pegasus humans that are being exterminated by Oberoths forces).

Would that not be a win-win-win for all parties involved, as well as a giant leap for the Asurans as a whole?

That it would. And imo it would go a long way to show how far they have come since their creation.

Argosy
December 8th, 2007, 04:47 PM
That it would. And imo it would go a long way to show how far they have come since their creation.


It would be a big boon for Wraith cultural development as well. We have already seen that Sophisti-Wraith (from “Condemned”) was capable of bargaining with humans & yearned for more out of life than just eating and sleeping.

With this symbiotic relationship with these new synthetic-human/cyborg Asurans it would permit them to stay awake (i.e. no need for long periods of hibernation) and actually evolve them selves.

It is detrimental for a society of sentient beings to accrue this level of social/physical/mental atrophy that the Wraith seems to be suffering from.

This is why people have such a hard time believing that these are the guys that defeated the Ancients…their 10,000 years of complacency/hibernation/farming has led to a situation where they have forgotten more things then most sentient beings will ever know.

On top of that they have lost the ability to work together in the face of adversity & instead continue to fall upon each other like wolves even after the stakes were raised with this renewed threat of annihilation from a technologically/numerically superior foe.

The Asuran transition to being biological beings is something that I would definitely like to see. And they should offer them selves up for alternate food supply for the Wraith as a penance for all the lives they have snuffed out.

Argosy
December 8th, 2007, 04:56 PM
i thought that was what would happen in millers crossing, rodney gets fed on but left with enough energy to stay alive, wraith finishes the coding, rodney is injected and fully healed.

That is a good idea my man, and here is some green for that. Whiles that would have been one way to resolve that story I do believe they handled it the way they did so that they could feed “Todd”.

wise one
December 9th, 2007, 03:48 AM
nanites were programmed to kill wraith dna so i think the nanites would just go stright for the sucking arm

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 06:43 AM
I had given this some thought while I was watching the episode last night & it was explained that the team were flesh & blood with nanites aiding in their regenerative abilities.

I would think that if the Asurans (I hate when they are called Replicators) are truly interested in ascension & the soul is the X ingredient to get them one step closer to achieving that goal, then it would be a no brainer for them to just make human bodies for them selves (using their avatars as a template for how they would author their DNA to achieve the form that they are accustomed to) since they already have demonstrated that they have no problem manufacturing one from scratch.

Hell they could achieve both of their objectives by doing this…

They could take on the human form augmented by the nanites and neutralize the Wraith by becoming their alternate form of sustenance.

The nanites could repair the damage to the human bodies & the Wraith would no longer have a need to harness actual humans for food.

I would think that this would be the most enlightened thing to do since the alternative is total genocide of the Wraith, & possibly their food supply before them (the Pegasus humans that are being exterminated by Oberoths forces).

Would that not be a win-win-win for all parties involved, as well as a giant leap for the Asurans as a whole?

I suspect that this evolution of both form & sensibility would definitely put them on the path to ascension.

It would certainly make for an interesting conclusion to the show to have both main villains pacified by giving them a symbiotic relationship.

But what do I know…I am high on decongestants after all LOL.

I think your idea is quite sensible--I bet a wraith like Michael or the one from Condemned would accept such a compromise.

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 06:44 AM
nanites were programmed to kill wraith dna so i think the nanites would just go stright for the sucking arm

Unless they were programmed not to.

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 06:48 AM
Darned if I know. I didn’t build the Dekara device or write the show so I have no clue LOL.

This question has been posed to far wiser men for millennia & I think it has still gone without a satisfactory answer all this time, so I doubt the answer is going to be found on a sci-fi message board.

“The truth is out there”, but not in here LOL.

Hm-- I don't know if Sci-Fi ever really answers the question if machines have a soul....

did T2's Arnold S. Terminator have a soul?

How about the bad dude in the Matrix?

Did R2 D2 or C3PO have souls?

What about that crap movie with Robin Williams as a robot...

or that cute kid in AI???

I feel like the Repli-McKay and all-- just had borrowed souls-- cloned souls.

I think cloned souls count... but if you are creating someone from scratch-- without a template--

I don't know if you can (will) have a soul... unless you are Data.

Argosy
December 9th, 2007, 07:07 AM
nanites were programmed to kill wraith dna so i think the nanites would just go stright for the sucking arm

The nanites do whatever specialized task they are programmed to do.

Niam’s nanites that infected the original Dr. Weir were programmed to attack her, while the nanites in TMC were programmed to preserve human life (through rapid regeneration of tissue).

I think ultimately they would do what they were told to do, even if that meant not attacking the Wraith.

It’s not like they haven’t been made to stand down before, and if it were a consensual symbiosis then I would see no reason why the Asurans wouldn’t reprogram the nanites.

Just as a side note we did see a consensual symbiosis in “Instinct” though that was of very limited success seeing as how Zaddik was just an ordinary human & lacked any kind of enhanced healing ability.

We have seen Col. Sheppard fed on multiple times in one episode & that did not make him terminally ill, so it stands to reason that it would just be a matter of repairing the damage done to his body that was inflicted by the feeding process in order to restore him to his original health.

This is all just idol speculation at this point, but I would like to see a conclusion to the SGA story that dose not involve the genocide of the Wraith. What exactly would that say about us?

The Wraith are no more evil than a wolf or a lion, and wiping us out is not advantages to them & has never been one of their stated goals so why should that fate be visited upon them?

I know my advocating of consensual symbiosis may sound like a peace-nick Knox kind of a solution, but it is the only one I can think of that will preserve & advance all three races of the Pegasus Galaxy.

Liam Kincaid
December 9th, 2007, 07:08 AM
There already is that Hoffan vaccine that does the same thing and Atlantis nixed it, how would this be that differant?

Argosy
December 9th, 2007, 07:19 AM
Hm-- I don't know if Sci-Fi ever really answers the question if machines have a soul....

did T2's Arnold S. Terminator have a soul?

How about the bad dude in the Matrix?

Did R2 D2 or C3PO have souls?

What about that crap movie with Robin Williams as a robot...

or that cute kid in AI???

I feel like the Repli-McKay and all-- just had borrowed souls-- cloned souls.

I think cloned souls count... but if you are creating someone from scratch-- without a template--

I don't know if you can (will) have a soul... unless you are Data.

That’s the thing though…the duplicate SGA team in TMC was flesh & blood humans who just happened to have nanites in them, so how dose that make them less human?

If being created artificially disqualifies you as being a human being with a genuine soul then all humans that were artificially created by the Dekara device would be classified as soulless.

Is it your intent to say that the Tau’ri and all the other humans in the Milkyway are as soulless as any artificially created humans the Asurans might make from scratch?

The Asgard were biological copies (clones) of previous versions of them selves & this state of affairs proved them to be soulless enough that ascension was not a possibility, so I don’t think souls would be reserved for duplicates and denied to biological humans created from scratch (like the ones made by the Dekara device, or rogue Asurans).

I know that this is one of those philosophical things that will never get resolved in real life, but I would lay odds that artificially constructed humans from scratch be it in Pegasus (biological Asurans) or the Milky Way (human created by the Dekara device) have souls.

By the way I can move this discussion elsewhere if you feel I am hijacking your thread.

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 09:50 AM
That’s the thing though…the duplicate SGA team in TMC was flesh & blood humans who just happened to have nanites in them, so how dose that make them less human?

If being created artificially disqualifies you as being a human being with a genuine soul then all humans that were artificially created by the Dekara device would be classified as soulless.

Is it your intent to say that the Tau’ri and all the other humans in the Milkyway are as soulless as any artificially created humans the Asurans might make from scratch?

The Asgard were biological copies (clones) of previous versions of them selves & this state of affairs proved them to be soulless enough that ascension was not a possibility, so I don’t think souls would be reserved for duplicates and denied to biological humans created from scratch (like the ones made by the Dekara device, or rogue Asurans).

I know that this is one of those philosophical things that will never get resolved in real life, but I would lay odds that artificially constructed humans from scratch be it in Pegasus (biological Asurans) or the Milky Way (human created by the Dekara device) have souls.

By the way I can move this discussion elsewhere if you feel I am hijacking your thread.

Huh? I don't think you are hijacking my thread.

Post away-- I am interested in what you (and others think).

:)

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 09:51 AM
That’s the thing though…the duplicate SGA team in TMC was flesh & blood humans who just happened to have nanites in them, so how dose that make them less human?

If being created artificially disqualifies you as being a human being with a genuine soul then all humans that were artificially created by the Dekara device would be classified as soulless.

Is it your intent to say that the Tau’ri and all the other humans in the Milkyway are as soulless as any artificially created humans the Asurans might make from scratch?

The Asgard were biological copies (clones) of previous versions of them selves & this state of affairs proved them to be soulless enough that ascension was not a possibility, so I don’t think souls would be reserved for duplicates and denied to biological humans created from scratch (like the ones made by the Dekara device, or rogue Asurans).

I know that this is one of those philosophical things that will never get resolved in real life, but I would lay odds that artificially constructed humans from scratch be it in Pegasus (biological Asurans) or the Milky Way (human created by the Dekara device) have souls.

By the way I can move this discussion elsewhere if you feel I am hijacking your thread.

Question... what's the Dekara device? Can you refresh my memory...

jelgate
December 9th, 2007, 09:59 AM
The Dakara device was created by the Ancients with the intent to wipe out life on a planet. It was be adjusted to destroy the Replicators in Reckoning. It was also used in Counterstrike to kill humans who worshiped the Ori and was destroyed by Adria

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 11:26 AM
The Dakara device was created by the Ancients with the intent to wipe out life on a planet. It was be adjusted to destroy the Replicators in Reckoning. It was also used in Counterstrike to kill humans who worshiped the Ori and was destroyed by Adria

ah, that is what I thought-- okay...

jenks
December 9th, 2007, 11:27 AM
It was designed to create life.

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 12:15 PM
It was designed to create life.

Hmmm... I don't really remember those SG1 episodes--- but I remember rationalizing the whole Dakara thingy as being akin to the big bang theory...

I didn't think of it as actually creating people-- with souls and all.

Myles
December 9th, 2007, 12:38 PM
The Dakara Device was created millions of years by the Ancients to manipulate energy and has ability to create or destroy pretty much anything. They built the device to seed life back into the galaxy after a devastating plague killed all the Ancients who were not in Pegasus or did not Ascend. It was not intended to kill at all.

Lostpinky
December 9th, 2007, 01:06 PM
I admittedly skipped a whole bunch of this thread so forgive if it is repeated...

The wraith feed by draiing the life force of a human... as stated in the show somewhere in season 3 I think "what we see as physical aging is the result of a complex chemical reaction initated by the wraith in order for it to feed."

As for the statement of what is the soul... not to get all philosophical, but wouldn't it be the result of your memories accompanied by the genetic makeup that you were born with allowing you to make decisions.

IE: you are born with certain "Hardware" like a computer as you live and grow new "Software" is added and stored, the hardware processes new input a certain way and then it is stored on the hard drive, the end result being the soul is what remains on the hard drive when the computer has died.

So a wraith feeding on a manufactured human would be no different to a wraith feeding on a normal human except maybe it would be like normal tomatos vs GM tomatos, the quality of a natural grown human is better than a manufactured human but the wraith could still live off it.

x303
December 9th, 2007, 01:32 PM
the dakara device was originally used by the ancient to wipe out life due to that plague they couldn't get rid of. the plague that the frozen ancient girl had in SG1 while jonas was in the picture. so way back when, the ancients used the dakara device to eradicate life (excludin ascended ancients merlin created another machine to wipe out all those guys) from the the MW galaxy and then replant it again. carter jacob n ba'al configured it to not eradicate all life energy but just the the energy which kept the replicator blocks together

so the humans in the milkyway galaxy are based on ancients and only some of us still have the ancient gene. therefore humans are atrificially created from an existin ancient genome by a machine. and can still ascend i.e jackson, scara, n almost mckay.

the reason the asgard coudln't ascend is because they had been cloning themselves for far too long. they had measures put in place to counteract the degeneration occured from making copies of copies of copies etc. but it was gettin to a point where it wasn't working so great which is why they need SG1's help in retrieving an old asgard body from an exploration team that was thought to be lost in space in hopes to be able to rebuild their DNA. that was when those stasus pods were within in a goauld shield n they needed to break it out.

so pretty much the asgard coudlnt ascend because they had lost to much information in their DNA to degeneration by making copies n copies over such a long time. n they couln't go back. this was all explain in sg1 finale when thor or some other asgard tells them of their mass suicide plan and when daniel J reads the asgards history.

the replicator versions mckay, teyla, ronan, shepard are human clones and shudn't face the asgard's issue coz these versions are first generation copies. altho they have nanites in them, they're only there to aid the body in healing not to replace parts of it so i rekon they can ascend, n if they do. all that will b left is as usual their clothes and the nanites. coz the when a person ascend their mind turns their body into energy as mckay explained when he go hit by the acension machine.

so yeah replicant sga team can ascend and b fed on by the wraith

by the way they did this episode the same way as an sg1 episode when sg1 were duplciaed into machine bodies by that comtria dude. u can tell it has the same writers as sg1 coz some things are repeated in another format n context like this episode. but its still cool tho

as for the replicators ascending i'm not sure, coz pretty much anyone can ascend with the right mindset i.e. anubis but even goauld haf a soul or sorts its jus that sarcofagus n their own hype n power that made em evil.

as for wraith n clone-replicator symbiotic relationships it cud b a deal. but doubt its long term viability. it wud have to be on actual clones with nanites. or ppl with nanites but it wudnt work the wraith are quite evil n want ppl at convienence they look down on humans the same way the goauld did. so in theory it wud work but in practice it wud break down n there wud b issues and another war.

i also dont think the wraith will ever be wiped out it will end the same way in sg1 where they jus kick there ass enough so they're not a serious threat anymore.

it wud b cool if sga wiped out those replicators the same way sg1 coz then there'd b loads of unmaned aurora worships n atlantis's about. as mckay said unlike pegasus replicators they still build thing normally they dont build out of replicator blocks

n i agree carter needs to get out more n kick some ass sg1 style.

HOPEFULLY ppl actually read this i did go on a rant!

Kribby
December 9th, 2007, 02:39 PM
There already is that Hoffan vaccine that does the same thing and Atlantis nixed it, how would this be that differant?

Hmmm.... It wouldn't be any different--

Actionhank
December 10th, 2007, 05:36 PM
Feed - repair - feed - repair...
Sounds interesting. Reminds my off Prometheus. He gave the fire to mankind and therefore was bound to a mountain. Every day a big eagle comes and snatches off his liver painfully. The liver is restored until next day...