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View Full Version : Too much Earth idiosyncronisities?



FallenAngelII
December 3rd, 2007, 11:59 PM
Are the Stargate aliens showing too many Tau'ri behaviorism and speech patterns?

Not only do they all seem to be using the Imperial, and to a much lesser extent also the metric, System, they also use a lot of Earth (specifically American) expressions.

In "Miller's Crossing", Ronon exclaims "Sweet!" in response to John telling him he's found something for him to point his gun at.

Am I the only one who was irked at this? The suspension of disbelief is almost all gone by now. Ronon and Teyla (to a lesser extent) have become so earthified they feel and sound just like pretty much any other Earthling.

jenks
December 4th, 2007, 01:09 AM
Yes. Some of the lines that Ronon has been given really annoy me, I think it's because the writers can't differentiate between English (language) phrases and North American ones, let alone route out the Earth phrases... If that makes any sense...

Shan Bruce Lee
December 4th, 2007, 01:21 AM
I'm not saying this as fact just a hypothetical - Ronan's situation isn't the same as Teal'C or Teyla. Ronan doesn't have the option of going back to his own people and culture like they do (or did) without that ancor it's easier to pick up the "local" slang.

Shiro
December 4th, 2007, 03:44 AM
To be fair, when you're around your friends, you tend to pick up sayings from them and use them yourself.

Ronon has been hanging around the Atlantis crew for over two years now. I'm not really surprised he's picked up a couple of mannerisms.

jenks
December 4th, 2007, 03:47 AM
I think Lucius was probably the worst, he even had the accent. :S

Darien
December 4th, 2007, 03:57 AM
I think Lucius was probably the worst, he even had the accent. :S
That's probably not the only respect in which Lucius was the worst... :D

Heaven
December 4th, 2007, 04:08 AM
In "Miller's Crossing", Ronon exclaims "Sweet!" in response to John telling him he's found something for him to point his gun at.

that's nothing. what about:

SHEPPARD: Hey, buddy, you wanna lower your gun?
RONON: What the hell?

starfox
December 4th, 2007, 04:16 AM
It bothers me when it's random-alien-ally-and-or-enemy-of-the-week, but with Ronon and Teyla, not so much. They spend all their time on a base with people from earth; it makes sense that they would pick up the slang.

Jill_Ion
December 4th, 2007, 05:40 AM
FYI, "idiosyncronisities" isn't a word. Synchronicity is a word...and a Police album. Idiosyncrasy is a word.

Jeffala
December 4th, 2007, 07:40 AM
Ronon's word choices indicate that he's assimilated to Earth culture and it's not really surprising.

What I didn't like is when in Rising, Sumner tells the Wraith keeper lady to "go to hell" and she, completely understanding the phrase, responds, "Earth first!" Now, either she's intelligent enough to infer the meaning of the phrase without understanding what the concept of Hell is or it was just bad writing.

Amalthea
December 4th, 2007, 08:10 AM
It's called suspending disbelief. We can pretend like they're really in the Pegasus galaxy doing all these lovely things, but at the end of the day, they're being fed lines by writers who are working for a primarily American audience. They're going to use "miles", "Hell" and "Sweet!" because that makes it accessible to more people. If they started inventing units of measurement, people would get annoyed having to figure out what a "darblat" or a "apsco" is every episode (except die-harders). You just have to accept all the Earth terminology just like you accept the fact that all the aliens speak English.

prion
December 4th, 2007, 08:40 AM
Are the Stargate aliens showing too many Tau'ri behaviorism and speech patterns?

Not only do they all seem to be using the Imperial, and to a much lesser extent also the metric, System, they also use a lot of Earth (specifically American) expressions.

In "Miller's Crossing", Ronon exclaims "Sweet!" in response to John telling him he's found something for him to point his gun at.

Am I the only one who was irked at this? The suspension of disbelief is almost all gone by now. Ronon and Teyla (to a lesser extent) have become so earthified they feel and sound just like pretty much any other Earthling.

I can accept some Earth mannerisms/words as simply those that Ronon and Teyla have absorbed while hanging around Sheppard. However, yes, everybody speaks English, etc. but that's for the viewer's benefit. And nobody seems to have problem with times, dates, length of years, etc. even if they live on a different planet with a different rotation.

MIZA
December 4th, 2007, 10:27 AM
Are the Stargate aliens showing too many Tau'ri behaviorism and speech patterns?

Not only do they all seem to be using the Imperial, and to a much lesser extent also the metric, System, they also use a lot of Earth (specifically American) expressions.

In "Miller's Crossing", Ronon exclaims "Sweet!" in response to John telling him he's found something for him to point his gun at.

Am I the only one who was irked at this? The suspension of disbelief is almost all gone by now. Ronon and Teyla (to a lesser extent) have become so earthified they feel and sound just like pretty much any other Earthling.


OMG , you are not alone that bugs the hell out of me , they should be like an Athosian and a Satedan , not acting all earth like they are not from there

txTart
December 4th, 2007, 11:22 AM
That's probably not the only respect in which Lucius was the worst... :D

*snort* Oh, boy, is that an understatement!

Konrad9
December 4th, 2007, 11:45 AM
Ronon's word choices indicate that he's assimilated to Earth culture and it's not really surprising.

What I didn't like is when in Rising, Sumner tells the Wraith keeper lady to "go to hell" and she, completely understanding the phrase, responds, "Earth first!" Now, either she's intelligent enough to infer the meaning of the phrase without understanding what the concept of Hell is or it was just bad writing.

In case you hadn't noticed, the queens have a pretty good psychic ability.

Shiro
December 4th, 2007, 11:50 AM
that's nothing. what about:

SHEPPARD: Hey, buddy, you wanna lower your gun?
RONON: What the hell?
I'm sure that most cultures have a concept of an underworld.

cityofroses
December 4th, 2007, 12:36 PM
The fact that everyone speaks English in a whole other galaxy bothers me more.

Jeffala
December 4th, 2007, 12:38 PM
The fact that everyone speaks in English in a whole other galaxy bothers me more.

See, at least Star Trek had the Universal Translator to fall back on.

Integrabyte
December 4th, 2007, 12:58 PM
...you want them to speak French? :D

JackHarkness_Hot
December 4th, 2007, 12:59 PM
In regards to the use of Imperial units (or what you Americans call it, English units), only 3 countries actually utilises it, United Kingdom (not so much now as 90% uses metric, 10% that do use it are actually the older generations), Canada and the United States.

In terms of whether it's a good idea or not to use metric, well they should be using it, especially on Stargate Atlantis. Say you're a scientist from Germany that have to calculate something in regards to distance, firstly you're gonna calculate something in metric as you're taught in school and universities then just so American/Canadian members can understand your calculations, you have to convert it to Imperial units. (Thus, more or less the scientists are "dumbing" down).

It wastes time and efforts - basically only 2 countries out of the whole entire planet uses Imperial and imo it's rather preposterous. There's a reason why we Brits call it Imperial, cos it's an ancient form of measurement.


It's easy to use:

10 millimetre/er = 1 centimetre/er
100 centimetre/er = 1 metre/er
1000 metre/er = 1 kilometre/er

What's so difficult about that? The currency more or less uses the similar format - 100 cents = $1.


Personally, I think the writers should learn and appreciate if Atlantis was solely an American base then yeah, use Imperial but if it consists of international scientists, then they should re-frame from using Imperial units.

Jeffala
December 4th, 2007, 01:08 PM
I think they should measure length in kellicams.

Integrabyte
December 4th, 2007, 01:12 PM
I think they should measure length in kellicams.

...even hooligans, why not :D

Avenger
December 4th, 2007, 01:47 PM
I think it's pretty nit picky to be honest.

Jill_Ion
December 4th, 2007, 01:50 PM
The scientists in SGA do use the metric system.

I am not interested in seeing the Team have to explain everything from time to measurement to what the hell "hell" means on every planet they visit. What? Do we need 25% more exposition?

If any of us need to hear TV characters using made up words for common English words, watch Farscape. Good show. Lots of made up words.

WingedPegasus
December 4th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Are the Stargate aliens showing too many Tau'ri behaviorism and speech patterns?

Not only do they all seem to be using the Imperial, and to a much lesser extent also the metric, System, they also use a lot of Earth (specifically American) expressions.

In "Miller's Crossing", Ronon exclaims "Sweet!" in response to John telling him he's found something for him to point his gun at.

Am I the only one who was irked at this? The suspension of disbelief is almost all gone by now. Ronon and Teyla (to a lesser extent) have become so earthified they feel and sound just like pretty much any other Earthling.

Um, no. See below post as to why.


To be fair, when you're around your friends, you tend to pick up sayings from them and use them yourself.

Ronon has been hanging around the Atlantis crew for over two years now. I'm not really surprised he's picked up a couple of mannerisms.

Jill_Ion
December 4th, 2007, 02:11 PM
Plus, there's Sci-Fi precedence for a non-human/alien character sounding more Earth-like after hanging out with us wacky Tau'ri!

The Cat in Red Dwarf.

Amalthea
December 4th, 2007, 02:18 PM
In regards to the use of Imperial units (or what you Americans call it, English units), only 3 countries actually utilises it, United Kingdom (not so much now as 90% uses metric, 10% that do use it are actually the older generations), Canada and the United States.

In terms of whether it's a good idea or not to use metric, well they should be using it, especially on Stargate Atlantis. Say you're a scientist from Germany that have to calculate something in regards to distance, firstly you're gonna calculate something in metric as you're taught in school and universities then just so American/Canadian members can understand your calculations, you have to convert it to Imperial units. (Thus, more or less the scientists are "dumbing" down).

It wastes time and efforts - basically only 2 countries out of the whole entire planet uses Imperial and imo it's rather preposterous. There's a reason why we Brits call it Imperial, cos it's an ancient form of measurement.


It's easy to use:

10 millimetre/er = 1 centimetre/er
100 centimetre/er = 1 metre/er
1000 metre/er = 1 kilometre/er

What's so difficult about that? The currency more or less uses the similar format - 100 cents = $1.


Personally, I think the writers should learn and appreciate if Atlantis was solely an American base then yeah, use Imperial but if it consists of international scientists, then they should re-frame from using Imperial units.

Canada is about 90% metric as well, just for the record. Just the old fogies use imperial, and even then most have converted. All our official documents are in metric. The only countries besides the US that haven't converted officially are Liberia and Myanmar (Burma to some).

But, it doesn't matter. The show is made for Americans and thus, American systems will be used. It's as simple as that.

Amalthea
December 4th, 2007, 02:20 PM
If any of us need to hear TV characters using made up words for common English words, watch Farscape. Good show. Lots of made up words.

Exactly. And there have been enough Fargate jokes.

FallenAngelII
December 4th, 2007, 08:06 PM
In case you hadn't noticed, the queens have a pretty good psychic ability.
They cannot read minds. They get information while feeding (somehow). And that's even only been shown in the pilot (a lot of stuff in pilots are never heard from again in canon or later retconned).


I'm sure that most cultures have a concept of an underworld.
And they all call them "Hell" and "Go to X" always means "Off to the Underworld you go!"?



I am not interested in seeing the Team have to explain everything from time to measurement to what the hell "hell" means on every planet they visit. What? Do we need 25% more exposition?
Or the aliens could just not use words of measurement and the like. It's quite easy.


To be fair, when you're around your friends, you tend to pick up sayings from them and use them yourself.

Ronon has been hanging around the Atlantis crew for over two years now. I'm not really surprised he's picked up a couple of mannerisms.
I never said that was a possibility. However, it's still stupid. Instead of showing us Satedan or Athosian culture through speech or expressions, they instead made Teyla and Ronon more Earth-like to make it easier on the dumber viewers.

Either way (if it's intentional or just out of stupidity), it's bad.

PG15
December 4th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Re: "Go to hell"

The Keeper didn't need to know what "hell" was; just by the tone you can tell that Sumner was saying something rude/defiant, and the Keeper just took that and went with it.

Heaven
December 4th, 2007, 08:14 PM
I'm sure that most cultures have a concept of an underworld.
why? it's a mythical concept

Jill_Ion
December 4th, 2007, 09:45 PM
cuz most/all cultures have myths

Shiro
December 5th, 2007, 01:56 AM
why? it's a mythical concept
Okay, put it this way. Most Earth cultures, independantly of each other developed concepts of an Underworld. Ergo, it could be extrapolated that the same would happen across other cultures.

Particularly those in the Stargate universe that were seeded by humans from Earth! :)

FallenAngelII
December 5th, 2007, 03:38 AM
Okay, put it this way. Most Earth cultures, independantly of each other developed concepts of an Underworld. Ergo, it could be extrapolated that the same would happen across other cultures.

Particularly those in the Stargate universe that were seeded by humans from Earth! :)
And every single one of those called it Hell? Doubtful.

Alipeeps
December 5th, 2007, 06:01 AM
In regards to the use of Imperial units (or what you Americans call it, English units), only 3 countries actually utilises it, United Kingdom (not so much now as 90% uses metric, 10% that do use it are actually the older generations), Canada and the United States.


Speak for yourself... I'm not by any means "the older generations" and I still use a lot of imperial units. The UK generally uses a mixture of the two with the imperial measurement being the more common, accepted usage in a variety of circumstances - for example, height (of a person), weight (of a person) and distance/speed. For example, the primary measurement indicator on speedometers of cars in the UK is still mph and not kph, most people know their weight in stones and pounds, not kg, and likewise most people know their height in feet and inches, not cm.


And every single one of those called it Hell? Doubtful.

It's irrelevant whether the Keeper understood the reference to Hell and what it meant - Sumner told her to go somewhere (and the inference that it was an insult/defiant reponse was clear) and she replied that she'd go to Earth first. She didn't need to understand what Hell meant to give that reply.

Beckmen
December 5th, 2007, 08:26 AM
Ronon's word choices indicate that he's assimilated to Earth culture and it's not really surprising.

What I didn't like is when in Rising, Sumner tells the Wraith keeper lady to "go to hell" and she, completely understanding the phrase, responds, "Earth first!" Now, either she's intelligent enough to infer the meaning of the phrase without understanding what the concept of Hell is or it was just bad writing.

Although I love the pilot, that scene makes me cringe every single time. I really wish they had cut her line there.

Jill_Ion
December 5th, 2007, 10:07 AM
j/k Cuz it made her look like a radical environmentalist? :lol:

ToasterOnFire
December 5th, 2007, 11:26 AM
I'd rather hear about PG slang, customs, and jokes from Ronon or Teyla any day over having Shep or Rodney explain another Earth triviality while Ronon and Teyla look blank. The latter happened yet again in MC when Walter ran his mouth while Ronon looked bored. Eh.

Integrabyte
December 5th, 2007, 12:44 PM
I think they should implement a new unit called:

PEGOMETERS!!!

"How far is the gate? Half a pegometer" :D

Jeffala
December 5th, 2007, 12:48 PM
I think they should implement a new unit called:

PEGOMETERS!!!

"How far is the gate? Half a pegometer" :D

Sounds like a device that would measure pegs.

JackHarkness_Hot
December 5th, 2007, 02:08 PM
Speak for yourself... I'm not by any means "the older generations" and I still use a lot of imperial units. The UK generally uses a mixture of the two with the imperial measurement being the more common, accepted usage in a variety of circumstances - for example, height (of a person), weight (of a person) and distance/speed. For example, the primary measurement indicator on speedometers of cars in the UK is still mph and not kph, most people know their weight in stones and pounds, not kg, and likewise most people know their height in feet and inches, not cm


Actually Westminister parliament are in debate whether to use KPH instead of MPH on cars and road signs to align with the European Union established protocols.

Most may know their weight in stones and pounds but many documentations such as birth cert or medical files will state Kgs, plus 70% of the UK uses kg as a method of weighing one's self, like I know that I weigh 83kg as it's more accurate. How is 13 stones "accurate" for example? What is a "stone" in terms of mass. On a personal level, I view stones and pounds as a bit of a lazy man's way of stating mass, it's a generalisation of a mass in actual fact.

Our use of Feets & inches are the same as in the US, yes, it's still popular but again, in documentations these days, you don't get feet and inches printed on your file, it'll be in metres. Feets & Inches has just too wide of margin for error, for I say that I'm 6'1" right? That's about 1.855m, 6'2" is 1.88m, margin of error 0.025m/25cm, may not sound much but in the modern age, accuracy is key. I could be right in between 1.855m and 1.88m, what am I to say? 6'1" and a 1/2?


I know, who needs to be accurate? But, if we don't, you will find yourself paying more for your couple of loose apples the next time you go to your local suopermarket.

Jill_Ion
December 5th, 2007, 02:34 PM
6' 1 1/2" is acceptable to state as one's height. I'm 5' 9 1/2". Of course, that makes us sound like we want to be an inch taller, but we can handle that, eh? :)

Living in the US, I find it helpful to know both measuring systems. Not only is it good when I visit our northern and southern neighbors, I have recipe books that use metric. Also, some industries use metric, some Imperial. Pop/soda/soft drinks comes in both a 12 oz can and a .5 liter bottle. Or is it litre?! Bwahahaha!

Ahem.

For my personal experience, it's like wearing an analog or digital watch. One will work better than the other for different people.

Womble
December 6th, 2007, 12:17 AM
Mannerisms are easily picked up, but I so didn't buy Ronon using the word "corporate".

FallenAngelII
December 6th, 2007, 03:49 AM
It's irrelevant whether the Keeper understood the reference to Hell and what it meant - Sumner told her to go somewhere (and the inference that it was an insult/defiant reponse was clear) and she replied that she'd go to Earth first. She didn't need to understand what Hell meant to give that reply.
Actually, she replied that Sumner should go to Hell before her.

Salas1
December 6th, 2007, 04:30 AM
And every single one of those called it Hell? Doubtful.

Hell is the English word for the underworld. Not the Earth word for the underworld.

So if the aliens speak English, then it stands to reason they use the English word to fit the definition.

Alipeeps
December 6th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Actually, she replied that Sumner should go to Hell before her.


SUMNER: Go to hell.

WRAITH: Earth first.

:)

jenks
December 6th, 2007, 09:37 AM
But did she mean she'll go to Earth first, or Earth will go to hell first?

Alipeeps
December 6th, 2007, 09:50 AM
But did she mean she'll go to Earth first, or Earth will go to hell first?

Good point. I've always interpreted it as the former but I suppose it could be read as meaning the latter. However, there's no way it can be construed to mean that Sumner should go to Hell before her. :)

FallenAngelII
December 6th, 2007, 09:59 AM
Hell is the English word for the underworld. Not the Earth word for the underworld.
Wh... wh... what?

Hell is the English word for the Abrahamic underworld. While the world "Hell" can also be used for the underworlds of Buddhism and Hinduism (among other things), these are called entirely different things in their original languages.

When you say "Hell", you almost always refer to the Abrahamic Hell as all other religions have specific names for their underworlds (be they translated or not).

doylefan22
December 6th, 2007, 03:30 PM
Actually I think Teyla has held on to her own speak fairly well. Obviously she's picked up some Earth phrases but the formality and pattern of her speak has remained fairly consistent since she turned up.

Ronon is more 'eathified' but that doesn't surprise me. He's more colloquial than Teyla in the first place and without the strong hint of social identity she seems to hold on to, it's not surprising he speaks more like a native :D

Alipeeps
December 6th, 2007, 03:39 PM
Actually I think Teyla has held on to her own speak fairly well. Obviously she's picked up some Earth phrases but the formality and pattern of her speak has remained fairly consistent since she turned up.

Ronon is more 'eathified' but that doesn't surprise me. He's more colloquial than Teyla in the first place and without the strong hint of social identity she seems to hold on to, it's not surprising he speaks more like a native :D

plus I get the impression Ronon hangs out with the marines rather more than Teyla... and I should think you'd pick up a lot of slang pretty quickly from hanging with squaddies! :D

IcyNeko
December 6th, 2007, 08:30 PM
Wh... wh... what?

Hell is the English word for the Abrahamic underworld. While the world "Hell" can also be used for the underworlds of Buddhism and Hinduism (among other things), these are called entirely different things in their original languages.

Not all Buddhists have an underworld. My school doesn't. :D But Hell is a state of life that we live through.