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Jackie
December 2nd, 2007, 06:12 PM
Hear ye, hear ye! (hope that's spelled right)

All Gateworld members!

In light of the controversy following the episode Miller's Crossing, it has been leaked to the pentagon that Lt. Colonel John Sheppard might have falsified his report.

The preliminary investigation has evidence that this true--(we all saw the ep--we're the witness).

The jury will be via popular vote at the end of the trial by the members of the board. At the end of the trail, I will trust the mods to make the voting ballot for us based on the charges brought forth by this trail.

The charges are:

Voluntary manslaughter with option of a lesser charge conviction of involuntary manslaughter. Meaning the actions of the named defendant, Lt Col. John Sheppard led to the death of Mr. Wallace.

Falsification of documents with intent to deceive.

Misconduct of an Officer and a Gentleman by personal contact with Mr Wallace before his death in which private pictures of a civilian family were shown and explained a dreaded situation.

Aiding and abetting criminal conduct of Rodney McKay who sent classified information via internet to a private residence of a civilian.

For Colonel Sheppard's Court Martial we will need a defense attorney (board members). A prosecutor and a judge (members). The judge will withhold any judgment of guilt or innocence and administer the trail.

I will need volunteers to sign up for the above mentioned spots.

Please post your handle and if you would like to defend or prosecute.

For judge I would prefer a mod if one can be found.

end of public notice.:)

Please remember in a trial it is not the dead man. Do not place guilt on Mr Wallace for he cannot defend himself. John Sheppard is presumed innocent and must be proven guilty. The episode is the proof for sake of the trial. Only state what we know from the ep.


for reasons of personal attacks on me--I am closing this thread. Admin--please lock thread.

Joe
December 2nd, 2007, 06:21 PM
Aiding and abetting criminal conduct of Rodney McKay who sent classified information via internet to a private residence of a civilian.

The civilian is ok to have that classified information.

Jackie
December 2nd, 2007, 06:23 PM
The civilian is ok to have that classified information.


not at their private residence or personal computer IMO

However, it's up to the board to clear the charge or convict the charge.

jelgate
December 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM
I'll sign up for the position of defense council(All those lawyer shows might pay off)Shouldn't you have members sign up as witnesses and in the military a hearing has take place before court matarial

Avenger
December 2nd, 2007, 06:29 PM
What we "witnessed" isn't enough to convict anyone of anything.

He also had nothing to do with McKay sending information back to Mrs. Miller.

Amalthea
December 2nd, 2007, 08:14 PM
There is no "smoking gun" as it were. We can suspect all we want, but someone has to come forward first.

Jackie
December 2nd, 2007, 09:05 PM
I'll sign up for the position of defense council(All those lawyer shows might pay off)Shouldn't you have members sign up as witnesses and in the military a hearing has take place before court matarial

Our only witness is the transcript of the show.

The object would be to follow the letter of the law and see just how guilty or innocent Sheppard would be.

The minimal charge he would be convicted on based on the transcript is false documentation.

I'm setting up the ground rules for an internet game of sorts. I have not signed up for any position myself. I'm trying to keep it clear of prejudice--including my own.

Konman72
December 2nd, 2007, 09:22 PM
I could serve as the defense attorney if you still haven't got one.

expendable_crewman
December 2nd, 2007, 10:28 PM
Your article 32 hearing is supposed to establish charges that can be supported by evidence, can't go straight to court-martial until you have them.

Btw, are you doing this in-universe or out of universe?

I'm just curious. In universe, nobody's going to say they saw anything. Out of universe the writers have already exonerated him.

Hmm, could make an interesting fanfic.

Jill_Ion
December 2nd, 2007, 10:54 PM
Our only witness is the transcript of the show.

The object would be to follow the letter of the law and see just how guilty or innocent Sheppard would be.

The minimal charge he would be convicted on based on the transcript is false documentation.

I'm setting up the ground rules for an internet game of sorts. I have not signed up for any position myself. I'm trying to keep it clear of prejudice--including my own.

What jurisdiction? Looks like you want to have both state and federal indictments. You'd have to do at least two "trials."

And by stating he would be convicted (of false documentation) at a minimum before this "trial" has even started, taints it with prejudice already. :(

Linzi
December 2nd, 2007, 11:09 PM
Hear ye, hear ye! (hope that's spelled right)

All Gateworld members!

In light of the controversy following the episode Miller's Crossing, it has been leaked to the pentagon that Lt. Colonel John Sheppard might have falsified his report.

The preliminary investigation has evidence that this true--(we all saw the ep--we're the witness).

The jury will be via popular vote at the end of the trial by the members of the board. At the end of the trail, I will trust the mods to make the voting ballot for us based on the charges brought forth by this trail.

The charges are:

Voluntary manslaughter with option of a lesser charge conviction of involuntary manslaughter. Meaning the actions of the named defendant, Lt Col. John Sheppard led to the death of Mr. Wallace.

Falsification of documents with intent to deceive.

Misconduct of an Officer and a Gentleman by personal contact with Mr Wallace before his death in which private pictures of a civilian family were shown and explained a dreaded situation.

Aiding and abetting criminal conduct of Rodney McKay who sent classified information via internet to a private residence of a civilian.

For Colonel Sheppard's Court Martial we will need a defense attorney (board members). A prosecutor and a judge (members). The judge will withhold any judgment of guilt or innocence and administer the trail.

I will need volunteers to sign up for the above mentioned spots.

Please post your handle and if you would like to defend or prosecute.

For judge I would prefer a mod if one can be found.

end of public notice.:)

Please remember in a trial it is not the dead man. Do not place guilt on Mr Wallace for he cannot defend himself. John Sheppard is presumed innocent and must be proven guilty. The episode is the proof for sake of the trial. Only state what we know from the ep.
Yeah...I don't think so!

Madeleine
December 3rd, 2007, 06:41 AM
Apropos of deleted posts, please keep RL politics out of this thread. RL law may be relevant, but RL politics is OT.

Cheers

Madeleine
GateWorld Moderator

Ranlier
December 3rd, 2007, 06:47 AM
Since everyone wants to be a defender, I volunteer for prosecution.

Jackie
December 3rd, 2007, 06:51 AM
What jurisdiction? Looks like you want to have both state and federal indictments. You'd have to do at least two "trials."

And by stating he would be convicted (of false documentation) at a minimum before this "trial" has even started, taints it with prejudice already. :(

hence I didn't sign up for prosecutor because I already think he's guilty. We do know he falsified records--the show stated it.

It would be a military trial not federal or civil. It would be under military law. I am searching for military law currently.

There are 2 who have volunteered for defense but the trail will still need a judge and prosecutor. Till someone signs up Shep will just have to remain in a holding cell.

Ranlier
December 3rd, 2007, 08:03 AM
Prosecution brings charges that Ltc. John Sheppard, USAF [hereafter referred to as "Sheppard"], exhibited willful negligence leading to the death of an American civilian on Unites States soil*.

Prosecution also charges that Ltc. Sheppard, again through negligence, allowed vital intelligence regarding Earth's primary military installation to be collected by a enemy combatant [hereafter referred to as "Todd"].

Prosecution does not bring charges of:
Treason (Giving American Military secrets to a Wraith to aid a canadian national)
Insubordination (Subverting the authority of General Hank M. Landry)
Violation of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (Screw you, slashers.)

*(I beleive the show implies that Henry Wallace is an American, despite Jeannie being kidnapped from Canada)

Jackie
December 3rd, 2007, 08:59 AM
Prosecution brings charges that Ltc. John Sheppard, USAF [hereafter referred to as "Sheppard"], exhibited willful negligence leading to the death of an American civilian on Unites States soil*.

Prosecution also charges that Ltc. Sheppard, again through negligence, allowed vital intelligence regarding Earth's primary military installation to be collected by a enemy combatant [hereafter referred to as "Todd"].

Prosecution does not bring charges of:
Treason (Giving American Military secrets to a Wraith to aid a canadian national)
Insubordination (Subverting the authority of General Hank M. Landry)
Violation of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (Screw you, slashers.)

*(I beleive the show implies that Henry Wallace is an American, despite Jeannie being kidnapped from Canada)

OMG--ROTFLMAO--love that line.

Thank you for signing up!

Anyone think they can be a fair judge and have prior misgivings or at least separate misgivings from trail.

Also Shep has just placed his order for lunch and is praying for someone to take the case. He is currently eating a Kentucky Fried Chicken dinner complete with buttered roll and mashed potatoes.

His literature is the latest issue of sci-fi magazine and he wishes to hear Johnny Cash.

VSS
December 3rd, 2007, 09:07 AM
I'll volunteer to be an expert witness if you need a medical opinion regarding the daughter's ALL, or hey, I can even stretch it to psychiatry for Mr. Wallace, or Lt. Col Sheppard, since I think he's manic/depressive, currently manic (hint hint- defense attorneys).

But I'm one of those sleazy expert witnesses that just goes with the side that hires me, ya know?;) So I'd be happy to say he just has an antisocial personality disorder, which isn't a defense.

scholar
December 3rd, 2007, 09:08 AM
I'm sorry, but, I don't think this would ever come to trial. There would be no interest in digging into the details of the event that eliminated a dangerous loose end. A man who had infiltrated government agencies and stolen government secrets. Wallace was also responsible for multiple instances of kidnapping, assault, assault of a federal officer, attempted murder, various espionage charges, and treason. That doesn't even get into the dangerous activities attached to the experimental use of nanites.

Face it. Wallace was history. He was never gonna be a free man with what he had done and what he knows. His "accidental" death was good for the government. It would be left alone. Nothing to see here.

Lythisrose
December 3rd, 2007, 09:13 AM
;)Well, depending on the kind of trial you end up with I volunteer for Jury Nullification.

Ranlier
December 3rd, 2007, 10:12 AM
I'm sorry, but, I don't think this would ever come to trial. There would be no interest in digging into the details of the event that eliminated a dangerous loose end. A man who had infiltrated government agencies and stolen government secrets. Wallace was also responsible for multiple instances of kidnapping, assault, assault of a federal officer, attempted murder, various espionage charges, and treason. That doesn't even get into the dangerous activities attached to the experimental use of nanites.

Face it. Wallace was history. He was never gonna be a free man with what he had done and what he knows. His "accidental" death was good for the government. It would be left alone. Nothing to see here.

You are correct, sir, however the military has been known to try officers when their conduct becomes known to the population at large. The "suspension of disbeleif" we offer here is that the Gateworld community is the "population" for whom this has been brought to light, and we as a community as sufficiently outraged that the military must take proper action. The episode represents security camera footage that we must use as evidence.

ColCaldwell
December 3rd, 2007, 10:19 AM
I've been calling for Sheppard's Court Marshall since the beginning of season 2.

Jackie
December 3rd, 2007, 11:01 AM
I found an interesting book that has the rules and regulations of a court martial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court-martial

go to bottom of page and click on 2005 Court Martial United States edition.

will need pdf to view

Ranlier
December 3rd, 2007, 11:15 AM
Already downloaded that, but its 907 pages. Oy.

Jill_Ion
December 3rd, 2007, 12:32 PM
hence I didn't sign up for prosecutor because I already think he's guilty. We do know he falsified records--the show stated it.

It would be a military trial not federal or civil. It would be under military law. I am searching for military law currently.

There are 2 who have volunteered for defense but the trail will still need a judge and prosecutor. Till someone signs up Shep will just have to remain in a holding cell.

Actually, we heard Sheppard state, "I was showing Wallace the labs. The Wraith got the upper hand. That's what the report's gonna say."

So, he hadn't actually falsified anything yet. We have him speaking in future tense. He may have changed his mind, consulted a military lawyer as to how to write a truthful account that wouldn't get him in trouble, or been told by his superiors what to write. We never saw or heard anyone directly or indirectly reference the final written report.

It's like if I say, "I'm going next door right now and break into my neighbor's house."

*pause, sitting at keyboard*

Obviously, I didn't do it and didn't break any laws.

Ranlier
December 3rd, 2007, 12:41 PM
Assuming I've been approved as lead prosecutor, I've already outlined the charges- willful negligence leading to the death of an American civillian.

This is consistent with everything we've seen to occur in the episode, including Sheppard's dialog. Prosecution alleges that he made no effort to adequately protect the unarmed visitor, which seems to be completely consistent with facts as known.

Konman72
December 3rd, 2007, 02:13 PM
Well, if we have two volunteers for defense and none for judge I can become the judge. I am a very objective and impartial person.

lamardeuse
December 3rd, 2007, 02:41 PM
Hear ye, hear ye! (hope that's spelled right)

At the end of the trail, I will trust the mods to make the voting ballot for us based on the charges brought forth by this trail.


Just curious - is that the trail Roy Rogers, Dale and Trigger are on? 'Cause I want to be on that one.

ReganX
December 3rd, 2007, 02:46 PM
Anyone think they can be a fair judge and have prior misgivings or at least separate misgivings from trail.

I haven't seen the episode yet - I have no idea what he did or didn't do, so I can be impartial.

Maybe, if the trial is to be conducted on the thread, it'd be a good idea to have at least two people sharing the roles of defender, prosecuter and judge, so we don't have to hang about waiting for people to show up.

garhkal
December 3rd, 2007, 04:30 PM
He may have changed his mind, consulted a military lawyer as to how to write a truthful account that wouldn't get him in trouble, or been told by his superiors what to write. We never saw or heard anyone directly or indirectly reference the final written report.

In which case, he would be guilty of conduct unbecoming for following an unlawful order, following of said order, falsifying the documents (even if told what to put on it), allowing the death of a prisoner, conspiracy.

Actionhank
December 3rd, 2007, 04:57 PM
*goes off to get some pop corn*

Now go ahead - always curious for this American system of common law.
How many jurors do we get? Which law is to apply? Would have to be some non-public court procedure since everything is top secret - military court probably - is that without a jury? What about the concurrent competence of the I.O.A.? What consequences does that case have, considering further activities in the installations of the stargate program because I've heard they have case law in the US jurisdiction (in Canada and Australia too). Do we have any reference of court martials in any Stargate episode?

*munchs some pop corn*

Jill_Ion
December 3rd, 2007, 06:05 PM
In which case, he would be guilty of conduct unbecoming for following an unlawful order, following of said order, falsifying the documents (even if told what to put on it), allowing the death of a prisoner, conspiracy.

Unless he changed his mind. Otherwise, fine. But that's not the charge Jackie said of which he is already guilty.

*walks away from this thread*

Jackie
December 3rd, 2007, 06:53 PM
Okay--lots of post to catch up on in Roy Rodgers trail--oops--trial.

After reading the court martial book the trial in a military court martial would be set up with a panel of judges. For our purpose I think it would be better for a poll to be opened after both sides rest their case. This would be open to the board. (I fully expect Sheppard to walk like a duck's butt covered in baby oil out of this mess)

We have one of each attorney so far. I think pair two would be a good idea--so in case one member isn't hear we can still play the game.

We have one for judge and we should have a second--for purpose of the game.

Same with prospecting attorney--need 2.

The show trans script is our eyewitness and evidence to the events--think of it as a security camera. The same evidence is open to interpretation--but its the jury who will need to be swayed the most to your side.

Since we have a judge and I am researching proceedings I will like to assist in proceedings to the judge or bailiff.

Our players so far:

Judges: ReganX--lead

Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead

Defendant: Konman72--lead

Bailiff--Jackie (me)

Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff

Jury: Poll at end of trail--sorry roy--dyslexia--trial.

Bailiff report:

Honorable Judge ReganX will be heading this trial. Her duties will be calling the trial to order and ensuring order in the court.

The Prosecution is headed by Ranlier and he will make the formal charges posted after Judge Regan calls trial to begin. It is the prosecutor's job to bring for evidence that will prove the defendant guilty

Defense council is headed by Konman72 and the defenses job is to rebut any evidence. You can bring in character witnesses if approved by the judge. Remember Sheppard is innocent till proven guilty. The deceased is not on trail and you cannot justify sheps actions by laying criminal blame on the deceased. You cannot state in a court of law that the deceased deserved to die because... you can state the situation in the base and the events leading to the death.

And Colonel Sheppard had hamburger tonight for his dinner with a side of french fries as he awaits his trail. :)

VSS
December 3rd, 2007, 07:26 PM
You know, I'm going to need to look at his past behavior and medical history. One episode isn't going to give me the whole picture. How far back can I go?

Ranlier
December 3rd, 2007, 07:30 PM
Basically, you go until I call for an objection, then it goes to the judge(s) for sustained/overruling.

Jackie
December 3rd, 2007, 07:45 PM
You know, I'm going to need to look at his past behavior and medical history. One episode isn't going to give me the whole picture. How far back can I go?

all the way back to the first ep...Shep's life could be on the line. He could get the death penalty if found guilty--according to the law book I read anyways. I would suggest a basic character profile and then it will be up to the judge to allow certain past examples in court.

For the court and character profile and mental profile would be good to have on hand.

It's possible the judge might allow the mental state of wallace at the time of the events to be admissible--I know there isn't much for him but a mental health profile of wallace might be requested.

Thank you for doing this--I appreciate it.:) :sam59:

If there is any techno experts that could determine just how much danger earth was in from the nanites and replicators--the judge might call for that report as well. The judge may also call for reports on why our previous technology wouldn't work.

The prosecutor does have the right to add to the current charges or drop charges before the start of the trial. Things like conspiracy charges might want to be looked at before the start.

The jury will have a range of charges available to them in the poll. From the least to the max as well as the innocent possibility. This is to ensure that even if Shep is found guilty--the level of the crime--would determine punishment, if any, under the guide book.

Jackie
December 3rd, 2007, 07:49 PM
Basically, you go until I call for an objection, then it goes to the judge(s) for sustained/overruling.

Thank you! So far you're the only one.

VSS
December 3rd, 2007, 08:10 PM
all the way back to the first ep...Shep's life could be on the line. He could get the death penalty if found guilty--according to the law book I read anyways. I would suggest a basic character profile and then it will be up to the judge to allow certain past examples in court.

For the court and character profile and mental profile would be good to have on hand.

It's possible the judge might allow the mental state of wallace at the time of the events to be admissible--I know there isn't much for him but a mental health profile of wallace might be requested.

Thank you for doing this--I appreciate it.:) :sam59:

If there is any techno experts that could determine just how much danger earth was in from the nanites and replicators--the judge might call for that report as well. The judge may also call for reports on why our previous technology wouldn't work.

The prosecutor does have the right to add to the current charges or drop charges before the start of the trial. Things like conspiracy charges might want to be looked at before the start.

The jury will have a range of charges available to them in the poll. From the least to the max as well as the innocent possibility. This is to ensure that even if Shep is found guilty--the level of the crime--would determine punishment, if any, under the guide book.

Well, I have to work for one side or the other, so I can come up with a defense- or not- so who's going to hire me? The other side's going to have to get their own witnesses.

Ranlier
December 3rd, 2007, 08:13 PM
You're hired, I'll be communicating with you via PM when the trial starts. You'll be put to testify, then cross-examined.

My AIM screen-name will be available to anyone who asks.

[Also guys, I need more prosecutors or you'll all be slaves to my work schedule]

VSS
December 3rd, 2007, 08:18 PM
How about PM'ing me now and letting me know what you want me to look at, if you have any ideas in that regard.

Girl Clone
December 3rd, 2007, 10:12 PM
Just curious - is that the trail Roy Rogers, Dale and Trigger are on? 'Cause I want to be on that one.

I think it's the Oregon Trail. Where your oxen die and you get dysentery. At least that always happened to me. I hope Sheppard makes it without breaking an axle.

KiLL3r
December 3rd, 2007, 10:35 PM
women :rolleyes:

jelgate
December 3rd, 2007, 10:37 PM
women :rolleyes::indeed:

FallenAngelII
December 3rd, 2007, 10:44 PM
I have not watched the episode yet, but I will in 30 minutes.

But we all know that Lt. Col. John Sheppard has no problems falsifying reports and omitting vital facts whenever it suits him, like when it'd garner himself or his friends punishment or when it would just make him look bad, as evidence by how he omitted great parts of what happened during the "Travelers"-incident in his debriefing.


Actually, we heard Sheppard state, "I was showing Wallace the labs. The Wraith got the upper hand. That's what the report's gonna say."

So, he hadn't actually falsified anything yet. We have him speaking in future tense. He may have changed his mind, consulted a military lawyer as to how to write a truthful account that wouldn't get him in trouble, or been told by his superiors what to write. We never saw or heard anyone directly or indirectly reference the final written report.
This is a 42-minute TV-show. They don't show everything happen. If they say something's gonna happen and nothing happens to suggest it didn't, then we must assume it did.

VSS
December 4th, 2007, 06:50 AM
Ever hear of a moot court?
That's what this is. Every law school in the country probably holds them, for fun and/or for grades. All fictional. All perfectly legitimate endeavors.

Also, we're going to need quite a few witnesses- like everyone who was there including Jeanie, McKay, etc. Has anybody volunteered for those slots?

Jackie
December 4th, 2007, 07:33 AM
Please keep this thread on topic.

Phenix
December 4th, 2007, 07:39 AM
Thats super lame. If we are discussing a military tribunal then real life law will mix with real life politics.

Important officers are never actually convicted of their crimes especially if the crime is the death of a person who will most likely face treason charges and either die by the state or live out his life and then die in a state prison. I don't get all this moralizing.

Ranlier
December 4th, 2007, 09:51 AM
This is not a real trial. This is a humorous indugence to the people who are actually interested in examining his actions in a organized, NOT A FLAME WAR context. We want to assign intelligent people to craft actual arguments, and then look at the validity of the arguments.

The tactic of insulting the people who are making the arguments is a theme common to the rest of the board that we would prefer to do without in this one instance. Please take it with you when you leave.

blue-skyz
December 4th, 2007, 10:20 AM
Gee, I think a court martial of Sheppard on the show would be really cool. I always like to see the main character/hero/good guy get accused of something he didn’t do or didn’t do in the way it is being portrayed. There is always so much angst.

I can just see Sheppard in court now in his dress blues. He is standing at the defense table looking hot vulnerable but determined. I want everyone to picture him there standing there alone in a sea of people. Don’t you just want to give him a hug and tell him it will be okay?

Poor Sheppard.
We know he has always tried to do the right thing, even when it risked his life, his career or his soul.

What has he gotten himself into this time?
Who was he trying to save this time?
What was he trying to fix this time.

Don’t worry we’re all right here for you.
We will all give you all the moral support you need.
We won’t desert you, we promise.


Guess I’m not impartial. :S ;)
:D :D :D :D

Ruffles
December 4th, 2007, 10:34 AM
Hear ye, hear ye! (hope that's spelled right)

All Gateworld members!

In light of the controversy following the episode Miller's Crossing, it has been leaked to the pentagon that Lt. Colonel John Sheppard might have falsified his report.

<major snippage for length>

Will we learn who leaked the information? That person will need to be called as a witness since he or she was obviously present (couldn't know it was false otherwise). Sheppard has the right to face his accuser.

Linzi
December 4th, 2007, 10:44 AM
Gee, I think a court martial of Sheppard on the show would be really cool. I always like to see the main character/hero/good guy get accused of something he didn’t do or didn’t do in the way it is being portrayed. There is always so much angst.

I can just see Sheppard in court now in his dress blues. He is standing at the defense table looking hot vulnerable but determined. I want everyone to picture him there standing there alone in a sea of people. Don’t you just want to give him a hug and tell him it will be okay?

Poor Sheppard.
We know he has always tried to do the right thing, even when it risked his life, his career or his soul.

What has he gotten himself into this time?
Who was he trying to save this time?
What was he trying to fix this time.

Don’t worry we’re all right here for you.
We will all give you all the moral support you need.
We won’t desert you, we promise.


Guess I’m not impartial. :S ;)
:D :D :D :D
Oooh, you're really on to something here. It sounds wonderful! I'll volunteer to be part of the crowd of Shep supporters cheering him along. I'd be next to Teyla, Ronon, McKay and a bunch of screaming fangirls - well, I could well be one of them! Sounds good to me! Count me in! I love a good bit of angst. Somehow though, I can't see the military courtmartialling Sheppard...in fact, I think the brass would probably agree with his actions...oh well, it was a nice thought! :)

Will we learn who leaked the information? That person will need to be called as a witness since he or she was obviously present (couldn't know it was false otherwise). Sheppard has the right to face his accuser.

Oh yes he does. I demand to see the witness! Actually, er, who would the witnesss be? The guards in the room, Todd? Hmmmm, I can't see that somehow...

Skydiver
December 4th, 2007, 11:03 AM
People, if you think this thread is a stupid waste of time

Go play somewhere else. Others are enjoying it so leave them alone to enjoy it

Jackie
December 4th, 2007, 11:03 AM
The witness is the transcript or TV ep which we all saw. It evidence that Mr. Woosely brought to us here at Gate world.

He's not out to harm anyone--just seek the truth and let law be the guide.

If anyone wishes to play mr woosely in this virtual play drama--please speak up. And remember--this is a game and there are real people playing it.

Pegasus_SGA
December 4th, 2007, 11:10 AM
Hear ye, hear ye! (hope that's spelled right)

All Gateworld members!

In light of the controversy following the episode Miller's Crossing, it has been leaked to the pentagon that Lt. Colonel John Sheppard might have falsified his report.

The preliminary investigation has evidence that this true--(we all saw the ep--we're the witness).

The jury will be via popular vote at the end of the trial by the members of the board. At the end of the trail, I will trust the mods to make the voting ballot for us based on the charges brought forth by this trail.

The charges are:

Voluntary manslaughter with option of a lesser charge conviction of involuntary manslaughter. Meaning the actions of the named defendant, Lt Col. John Sheppard led to the death of Mr. Wallace.

Falsification of documents with intent to deceive.

Misconduct of an Officer and a Gentleman by personal contact with Mr Wallace before his death in which private pictures of a civilian family were shown and explained a dreaded situation.

Aiding and abetting criminal conduct of Rodney McKay who sent classified information via internet to a private residence of a civilian.

For Colonel Sheppard's Court Martial we will need a defense attorney (board members). A prosecutor and a judge (members). The judge will withhold any judgment of guilt or innocence and administer the trail.

I will need volunteers to sign up for the above mentioned spots.

Please post your handle and if you would like to defend or prosecute.

For judge I would prefer a mod if one can be found.

end of public notice.:)

Please remember in a trial it is not the dead man. Do not place guilt on Mr Wallace for he cannot defend himself. John Sheppard is presumed innocent and must be proven guilty. The episode is the proof for sake of the trial. Only state what we know from the ep.


for reasons of personal attacks on me--I am closing this thread. Admin--please lock thread.

Just a quickie, i'm all for this to start off with it can be great fun, but you can't decided on the charges. It's up to the prosecution to determine that, they have to set out the legalities and determine if they'll proceed to a full hearing.. So, i'm assuming this is the Article 32 hearing then of the UCMJ? Then on to the trial if there is one?

Bagsey being the prosecution alongside Ranlier! I thought it would fun to switch allegeances. :D I think those that believe Shep is innocentish should prosecute and those that think he's guilty should defend. That could make for interesting reading... if we all solemnly swear that we're up to no good.... no that's not right. If we all swear to do our best and do our duty to the utmost. It could be very interesting. :D


Prosecution brings charges that Ltc. John Sheppard, USAF [hereafter referred to as "Sheppard"], exhibited willful negligence leading to the death of an American civilian on Unites States soil*.

Prosecution also charges that Ltc. Sheppard, again through negligence, allowed vital intelligence regarding Earth's primary military installation to be collected by a enemy combatant [hereafter referred to as "Todd"].

Prosecution does not bring charges of:
Treason (Giving American Military secrets to a Wraith to aid a canadian national)
Insubordination (Subverting the authority of General Hank M. Landry)
Violation of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (Screw you, slashers.)

*(I beleive the show implies that Henry Wallace is an American, despite Jeannie being kidnapped from Canada)

*snort*


OMG--ROTFLMAO--love that line.

Thank you for signing up!

Anyone think they can be a fair judge and have prior misgivings or at least separate misgivings from trail.

Also Shep has just placed his order for lunch and is praying for someone to take the case. He is currently eating a Kentucky Fried Chicken dinner complete with buttered roll and mashed potatoes.

His literature is the latest issue of sci-fi magazine and he wishes to hear Johnny Cash.

I did think about being a judge, hmmmmm if you haven't got one, I can be impartial. It's my job ya know. :P


Gee, I think a court martial of Sheppard on the show would be really cool. I always like to see the main character/hero/good guy get accused of something he didn’t do or didn’t do in the way it is being portrayed. There is always so much angst.

I can just see Sheppard in court now in his dress blues. He is standing at the defense table looking hot vulnerable but determined. I want everyone to picture him there standing there alone in a sea of people. Don’t you just want to give him a hug and tell him it will be okay?

Poor Sheppard.
We know he has always tried to do the right thing, even when it risked his life, his career or his soul.

What has he gotten himself into this time?
Who was he trying to save this time?
What was he trying to fix this time.

Don’t worry we’re all right here for you.
We will all give you all the moral support you need.
We won’t desert you, we promise.


Guess I’m not impartial. :S ;)
:D :D :D :D

Mmmmmmmmmmmm http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif Oops sorry, had to get that out my system. Can't have the fangirly in me, popping up during the trial now can we? :P

Jackie
December 4th, 2007, 11:22 AM
Pegasus__sga

we need an alternate judge for when the lead judge isn't on the board. The lead judge--advocate judge general--is reganx.

we still need an alternate def and pro attorney.

I found out after I poster the original notice the prosecutor makes the official charge. I will consider the prior charges the arresting charges made by the MP's.

The official charges will be filed after the game starts and the judge calls court to order...whenever the players are ready...please post that you are ready to proceed with the case.

Pegasus_SGA
December 4th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Pegasus__sga

we need an alternate judge for when the lead judge isn't on the board. The lead judge--advocate judge general--is reganx.

we still need an alternate def and pro attorney.

I found out after I poster the original notice the prosecutor makes the official charge. I will consider the prior charges the arresting charges made by the MP's.

The official charges will be filed after the game starts and the judge calls court to order...whenever the players are ready...please post that you are ready to proceed with the case.


Then if it may please the court, i'd like to prosecute! :D And I solemnly swear that I will not pass out. ;) or become all fangirly in the court room when I see Shep in his blues. :D I shall try and remain professional at all times. :P And if you believe that, you'll believe anything *giggles*

Thank you :D

kymeric
December 4th, 2007, 11:46 AM
I would enter the myspace case of Megan the girl talked into suicide on myspace. This was malicious where Sheppard was not and this worse case was not a crime. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2216603,00.html

Go back to your ponchos and treehugging you peace lovers!!!!! :P

Ruffles
December 4th, 2007, 11:50 AM
The witness is the transcript or TV ep which we all saw. It evidence that Mr. Woosely brought to us here at Gate world.

He's not out to harm anyone--just seek the truth and let law be the guide.

If anyone wishes to play mr woosely in this virtual play drama--please speak up. And remember--this is a game and there are real people playing it.

Then may I respectfully submit that your witness is not an eyewitness to the crime. The actual falsification of the document was not shown in the ep. Hearsay is not allowed at trial. I have no problem with there being a witness be it a guard or one of the bodybag guys or someone else that knew what really happened and that the report was false.

The transcript can certainly be evidence that what the document says is false, but it can't be the witness.

Ranlier
December 4th, 2007, 11:52 AM
Jackie's a judge, she's not setting the charges- I've already done that and falsification isn't one of them.

Pegasus_SGA
December 4th, 2007, 12:03 PM
And if anyone is interested.. UCMJ (http://www.constitution.org/mil/ucmj19970615.htm) just a little light reading. :P

Ooooooh Miller's crossing is on :D At least i'll be nice and refreshed.

Ruffles
December 4th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Jackie's a judge, she's not setting the charges- I've already done that and falsification isn't one of them.

*scrolls back through posts*

So you did. My apologies.

May I ask what vital information the Wraith collected, or will that be revealed during the trial?

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 01:00 PM
Honorable Judge ReganX will be heading this trial. Her duties will be calling the trial to order and ensuring order in the court.

Before I call the trial to order - will the roles of Sheppard and any other witnesses be cast?

VSS
December 4th, 2007, 01:15 PM
I don't see how you can avoid casting Sheppard and Rodney.

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 01:19 PM
I don't see how you can avoid casting Sheppard and Rodney.

Sheppard will need to be given a chance to speak on his own behalf - any volunteers?

Pegasus_SGA
December 4th, 2007, 02:34 PM
I actually fancy doing shep's bit now. :lol: Typical woman, can never make up her mind. ;) :P :D

jelgate
December 4th, 2007, 02:35 PM
I actually fancy doing shep's bit now. :lol: Typical woman, can never make up her mind. ;) :P :D

Can we court martial Peg?

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 02:41 PM
Has anyone actually seen a court martial, for real or in a movie? Are there any differences regarding things like swearing in witnesses?

Since guilt or innocence will be determined by vote, will we need to run several polls for each count, or have multiple options and enable people to vote more than once*?



* Options would be
- Not guilty (Count 1)
- Guilty (Count 1)
- Not guilty (Count 2)
- Guilty (Count 2)
- Not guilty (Count 3)
- Guilty (Count 3)
and so on, on the understanding that everyone would vote either guilty or not guilty for every count, but we'd need a way of making sure that people weren't checking all the boxes and throwing the result.

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Can we court martial Peg?

If she's playing Sheppard, we can. :)

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 02:51 PM
Our players so far:

Judges: ReganX--lead

Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead

Defendant: Konman72--lead

Bailiff--Jackie (me)

Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff

Jury: Poll at end of trail--sorry roy--dyslexia--trial.

Any volunteers for seconds for the roles, especially the first three - for example, if the trial is in progress and I'm offline, should we designate someone to step in as Judge?

Jackie
December 4th, 2007, 03:04 PM
Jackie's a judge, she's not setting the charges- I've already done that and falsification isn't one of them.

I am NOT the judge...just the assistant--the bailiff. My job is to make sure the court runs smoothly...in virtual court...that would be assisting with info and keeping the thread from being high jacked.

I would like to take a roll call of the players and cast. Please cut and past the very bottom of this post and place on your title and handle. Thank you--can't find my notes.


Then may I respectfully submit that your witness is not an eyewitness to the crime. The actual falsification of the document was not shown in the ep. Hearsay is not allowed at trial. I have no problem with there being a witness be it a guard or one of the bodybag guys or someone else that knew what really happened and that the report was false.

The transcript can certainly be evidence that what the document says is false, but it can't be the witness.

Mr Woosely brought the tape to the prosecutions attention. --the ep is security footage-- there are many crimes where a man has been convicted of murder based on forensic and video evidence alone. The episode is the forensic evidence--which is your best witness. You do not need an eyewitness to a crime to have a trail. If you did need an eyewitness than there a lot of killers in jail who would be free right now. Matter of fact--the less eyewitnesses the better--the defense will try to discredit any prosecuting eyewitness and vise versa.

The case is based on forensic evidence--the tape--which is the show we watched. A transcript of the tape is available for both sides to view and cross examine. This is a forensic case.



Sheppard will need to be given a chance to speak on his own behalf - any volunteers?

The judge may allow shep to speak, his lawyer would request it first. Most defendants do not take the stand in order to prevent them from being cross examined and inadvertently making themselves look less credible to the jury.

If he takes the stand the prosecution would cross examine him and that--could be--tricky.

It's the judge Reganx's call if Shep request to speak on his behave.


Judges:





bailiff: Jackie (there can be 2 bailiffs if someone else wants to help me police the thread for abuse and dig up info for the judge.)



Prosecutors:



State witness and experts:





Defense team:





Defense experts and witness:





Role Players: (feel free to add if you think of any more--I added people who were not on the tape to have a chance to be character witnesses.)

(please sign up for which character you wish to play)

Rodney McKay:

Jeannie Miller:

John Sheppard:

Zelenka:

Agent Barrett:

Sam Carter:

Richard Woosely:

General Landry:

Wraith Todd:

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 03:11 PM
I actually fancy doing shep's bit now. :lol: Typical woman, can never make up her mind. ;) :P :D

We've got our Sheppard. For other roles, maybe the prosecution and defence attorneys could each compile a witness list so we know who we'll need - no point in casting the role if the player won't have anything to do.

In the event that we run out of volunteers here and nobody's interested in doubling up (obviously, judge, defence and prosecution wouldn't be able to play a character too but there's no reason why whoever plays one character can't take on another if they so choose), we could issue open invitations on Character threads for anyone who has yet to be cast - ie. go to the McKay fans thread for McKay, and so on.

Pegasus_SGA
December 4th, 2007, 03:25 PM
Can we court martial Peg?

You can't now, because you're on my side if i'm playing Sheppard. Are you going to switch allegeances now? :P


Has anyone actually seen a court martial, for real or in a movie? Are there any differences regarding things like swearing in witnesses?

Since guilt or innocence will be determined by vote, will we need to run several polls for each count, or have multiple options and enable people to vote more than once*?



* Options would be
- Not guilty (Count 1)
- Guilty (Count 1)
- Not guilty (Count 2)
- Guilty (Count 2)
- Not guilty (Count 3)
- Guilty (Count 3)
and so on, on the understanding that everyone would vote either guilty or not guilty for every count, but we'd need a way of making sure that people weren't checking all the boxes and throwing the result.

you only get one vote of guilty or not guilty per charge, so you might have to set up multiple polls for that (if you're doing polls) if not, there are ways around it. The jurers can vote on their posts, and we can just keep a 5 bar gate as way of score, then you'll know there's no cheating either, or should I say multiple votes. :P


If she's playing Sheppard, we can. :)

Cheeky. :D


I am NOT the judge...just the assistant--the bailiff. My job is to make sure the court runs smoothly...in virtual court...that would be assisting with info and keeping the thread from being high jacked.

I would like to take a roll call of the players and cast. Please cut and past the very bottom of this post and place on your title and handle. Thank you--can't find my notes.



Mr Woosely brought the tape to the prosecutions attention. --the ep is security footage-- there are many crimes where a man has been convicted of murder based on forensic and video evidence alone. The episode is the forensic evidence--which is your best witness. You do not need an eyewitness to a crime to have a trail. If you did need an eyewitness than there a lot of killers in jail who would be free right now. Matter of fact--the less eyewitnesses the better--the defense will try to discredit any prosecuting eyewitness and vise versa.

The case is based on forensic evidence--the tape--which is the show we watched. A transcript of the tape is available for both sides to view and cross examine. This is a forensic case.

I agree all material can be used, and i'm sure there would be video evidence available.... unless the machine ate the tape? ;)





The judge may allow shep to speak,

That's very kind of you, thanks. :lol:



his lawyer would request it first. Most defendants do not take the stand in order to prevent them from being cross examined and inadvertently making themselves look less credible to the jury.

If he takes the stand the prosecution would cross examine him and that--could be--tricky.

It's the judge Reganx's call if Shep request to speak on his behave.

Behave? ;) Since when do I behave? Remember how irreverant I can be. :P



Judges:





bailiff: Jackie (there can be 2 bailiffs if someone else wants to help me police the thread for abuse and dig up info for the judge.)



Prosecutors:



State witness and experts:





Defense team:





Defense experts and witness:





Role Players: (feel free to add if you think of any more--I added people who were not on the tape to have a chance to be character witnesses.)

(please sign up for which character you wish to play)

Rodney McKay:

Jeannie Miller:

John Sheppard: Peggy :P I might have to grow some balls for this role. ;) I mean that metaphorically people. :D

Zelenka:

Agent Barrett:

Sam Carter:

Richard Woosely:

General Landry:

Wraith Todd:


We've got our Sheppard. For other roles, maybe the prosecution and defence attorneys could each compile a witness list so we know who we'll need - no point in casting the role if the player won't have anything to do.

In the event that we run out of volunteers here and nobody's interested in doubling up (obviously, judge, defence and prosecution wouldn't be able to play a character too but there's no reason why whoever plays one character can't take on another if they so choose), we could issue open invitations on Character threads for anyone who has yet to be cast - ie. go to the McKay fans thread for McKay, and so on.

If we don't get enough volunteers, I suppose I could always prosecute myself. :D Although I do wonder if people don't line up around the block to take pot shots at me. :lol: Well, this is their chance, so to speak. :D

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 03:29 PM
Behave? ;) Since when do I behave? Remember how irreverant I can be. :P

Not in my courtroom. :)

ReganX
December 4th, 2007, 03:31 PM
If we don't get enough volunteers, I suppose I could always prosecute myself. :D Although I do wonder if people don't line up around the block to take pot shots at me. :lol: Well, this is their chance, so to speak. :D

Didn't Ranlier volunteer as lead prosecuter?

Pegasus_SGA
December 4th, 2007, 03:36 PM
Not in my courtroom. :)

I might have to amend my sig then. ;)


Didn't Ranlier volunteer as lead prosecuter?

He did. And the last time I spoke to him, he was plotting shep's demise. (or should I say mine? ;) ) I even gave him a few hints, before I turned to the dark side. :P Maybe he'll change his game plan, now. :lol:

Jackie
December 4th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Didn't Ranlier volunteer as lead prosecuter?

yes he did....I also have a post a few back where I posted who was cast last night. I'll go look for it.

Jackie
December 4th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Judges:

ReganX--lead


bailiff: Jackie (there can be 2 bailiffs if someone else wants to help me police the thread for abuse and dig up info for the judge.)



Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead



State witness and experts:
Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff




Defense team:
Defendant: Konman72--lead




Defense experts and witness:





Role Players: (feel free to add if you think of any more--I added people who were not on the tape to have a chance to be character witnesses.)

(please sign up for which character you wish to play)

Rodney McKay:

Jeannie Miller:

John Sheppard: Peggy :P I might have to grow some balls for this role. ;) I mean that metaphorically people. :D

Zelenka:

Agent Barrett:

Sam Carter:

Richard Woosely:

General Landry:

Wraith Todd:

Arania
December 4th, 2007, 04:05 PM
I'll volunteer as second prosecution or defence, whichever position is currently available (Prosecution preferred, if both are open).
Or, if those positions are unavailable, i'm confident in being able to play Mckay on the witness stand, if required.

Also, secondly, might i reccomend that we create a second thread for the actual court proceedings? As it is, this thread has become rather cluttered with the 'This is stupid' idiot remarks, so it might pay off to have a new, clean thread for when everything gets underway in the courtroom.

jelgate
December 4th, 2007, 04:15 PM
i voluneteer for the McKay

garhkal
December 4th, 2007, 04:15 PM
who will most likely face treason charges and either die by the state or live out his life and then die in a state prison. I don't get all this moralizing.

Wallace would not have been found guilty of treason for one, and just cause he may have died in prison does not mean he should have been given what amounted to as the death penalty.

PG15
December 4th, 2007, 06:25 PM
i voluneteer for the McKay


Are you sure you're snarky enough? ;)

I'd volunteer for McKay...if it weren't for finals. *sigh*.

jelgate
December 4th, 2007, 06:38 PM
Are you sure you're snarky enough? ;)I'd volunteer for McKay...if it weren't for finals. *sigh*.Of course.

Mitchell82
December 4th, 2007, 06:46 PM
Hear ye, hear ye! (hope that's spelled right)

All Gateworld members!

In light of the controversy following the episode Miller's Crossing, it has been leaked to the pentagon that Lt. Colonel John Sheppard might have falsified his report.
*yawn* WHy didn't I see this coming. Oh wait I did just not by you I expected another member to do this who will go nameless.


The preliminary investigation has evidence that this true--(we all saw the ep--we're the witness).
Yes however who the hell is we exactly? Not all of us obviously saw the same ep you did.


The jury will be via popular vote at the end of the trial by the members of the board. At the end of the trail, I will trust the mods to make the voting ballot for us based on the charges brought forth by this trail.

The charges are:

Voluntary manslaughter with option of a lesser charge conviction of involuntary manslaughter. Meaning the actions of the named defendant, Lt Col. John Sheppard led to the death of Mr. Wallace.
He was not responsible for his death. Wallace is responsible. His actions whether intended or not led to his own demise. He illegally obtained classified information, he kidnapped a civilian woman with knolwedge of said information. He, broke into her house with armed guards with weapons they should obviously not have. He then kidnapped Rodney, and then infected his sister to persuade him to do what he asked. His acitions led to his daughters death, and the critical condition Jeannie was in which would be attempted murder or manslaughter. Shepard explained the situation and out of guilt he voluntered. SO not Sheps fault.


Falsification of documents with intent to deceive.
To protect those involved not to decieve. If divulged he along with Mckay and Jeanie would be either removed from Atlantis or arrested or a combination of those. Military officers leave things out all the time for the greater good. Woolsey does it all the time. Shep did what he had to do.


Misconduct of an Officer and a Gentleman by personal contact with Mr Wallace before his death in which private pictures of a civilian family were shown and explained a dreaded situation.
Um not misconduct. Cops and Military officers do it all the time as a method of persuasion in this case it made Wallace realise what he had done and agreed in order to make ammends.


Aiding and abetting criminal conduct of Rodney McKay who sent classified information via internet to a private residence of a civilian.
Nope no criminal conduct hence no aiding and abedding. Perhaps you should have taking some law classes, and spelling. Jeanie was cleared to recieve those classified documents since she has clearance and her computer was secure but any computer can be hacked.


For Colonel Sheppard's Court Martial we will need a defense attorney (board members). A prosecutor and a judge (members). The judge will withhold any judgment of guilt or innocence and administer the trail.


[QUOTE]Please remember in a trial it is not the dead man. Do not place guilt on Mr Wallace for he cannot defend himself. John Sheppard is presumed innocent and must be proven guilty. The episode is the proof for sake of the trial. Only state what we know from the ep.
Yeah well your version of events is fictional so... Oh also you definatly have no knolwedge of the law since Wallace would be dragged into it since it is part of your charges.



for reasons of personal attacks on me--I am closing this thread. Admin--please lock thread.
No offense but you brought that on yourself.

Orion's Star
December 4th, 2007, 07:17 PM
To protect those involved not to decieve. If divulged he along with Mckay and Jeanie would be either removed from Atlantis or arrested or a combination of those. Military officers leave things out all the time for the greater good. Woolsey does it all the time. Shep did what he had to do.


Let me get this straight. What you just said was that if Sheppard hadn't falsified the reports, then he would have been removed or arrested for his actions? Aren't you essentially admitting then that Sheppard and the others must have done something wrong or else there would be nothing for him to be punished for? How is it then that this whole thing is unfounded?

Mitchell82
December 4th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Let me get this straight. What you just said was that if Sheppard hadn't falsified the reports, then he would have been removed or arrested for his actions? Aren't you essentially admitting then that Sheppard and the others must have done something wrong or else there would be nothing for him to be punished for? How is it then that this whole thing is unfounded?

Easy, because he did break protocol not to mention the geneva convention but as I also said it is done all the time when there are greater issues at stake than one life. He omitted certain details to "save face". Also as I have said that is also done when it is necessary.

avidffan
December 4th, 2007, 07:42 PM
AVIDFAN
for the defense

Ranlier
December 5th, 2007, 12:56 AM
Ok, so we're up to:

ReganX--Judge
Second Judge: ________
Third Judge: __________

Bailiff: Jackie
Second Bailiff: __________


Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead
Second prosecutor- Arania

Prosecution witness and experts:
Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff

Defense team:
Defendant: Konman72--lead
Second Defense : Avidfan


Defense experts and witness:
_______________
_______________
_______________

Rodney McKay: _____________

Jeannie Miller: ______________

John Sheppard: Peggy

Zelenka: ________________

Agent Barrett: _____________

Sam Carter:______________


Richard Woosely: ________________

General Landry: ________________

Wraith Todd: (god I would so take this if I wasn't on prosecution): ________

Kribby
December 5th, 2007, 02:07 AM
I want to be Jeannie McKay Miller!

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 03:50 AM
*yawn* WHy didn't I see this coming. Oh wait I did just not by you I expected another member to do this who will go nameless.

No offense but you brought that on yourself.

please be aware that I am actively policing this thread and post like this will be sent to the mods. so please refrain from personal attacks if you do not wish to be reported.

also please keep this thread on topic. There will be another thread opened for the actual court proceedings once the cast is in place. This is a GAME available too any member who wishes to play. If you wish to debate...there is another thread open you can debate on.

thank you for your cooperation.

Pegasus_SGA
December 5th, 2007, 04:37 AM
Ok, so we're up to:

ReganX--Judge
Second Judge: ________
Third Judge: __________

Bailiff: Jackie
Second Bailiff: __________


Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead
Second prosecutor- Arania

Prosecution witness and experts:
Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff

Defense team:
Defendant: Konman72--lead
Second Defense : Avidfan


Defense experts and witness:
_______________
_______________
_______________

Rodney McKay: _____________

Jeannie Miller: ______________

John Sheppard: Peggy

Zelenka: ________________

Agent Barrett: _____________

Sam Carter:______________


Richard Woosely: ________________

General Landry: ________________

Wraith Todd: (god I would so take this if I wasn't on prosecution): ________
Didn't Jelgate say he wanted to be the Wraith?

Skydiver
December 5th, 2007, 05:20 AM
Guys

This isn't a serious discussion of the ethical issues of the episode. It's people having fun. now if you are a fan of shep, you could see this as an attack on him, and that's your right. but i'm seeing no malice in this. I'm just seeinig people having fun. So let's let them have it please.

If there is already a serious discussion thread abuot shep's actions, please take the serious discussion there, if there isnt', feel free to start one.

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 07:04 AM
Didn't Jelgate say he wanted to be the Wraith?
No I signed up as McKay. Heres hoping

blue-skyz
December 5th, 2007, 07:47 AM
I suggest that two votes be taken, one before the 'trial' and one after.

Since the 'jury' will be us, the posters, and none of us are uninformed about the case to start with, the only way to judge the effect of the 'trial' is to benchmark the 'jury's' beliefs before hand.

So, I respectfully ask whoever sets up polls to set up one immediately before the 'trial' identical to the one that will be used following the 'trial.'

Thank you

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 5th, 2007, 08:37 AM
I want to be Jeannie McKay Miller!
Awww... I wanted to be Jeanie... :(

OK, then... hmm... can I be... Sam Carter? :D Sadly she didn't play as big of a role as Jeanie, but as Sheppard's CO she'll have some say, right?

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
December 5th, 2007, 08:47 AM
i'll be a second judge

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 5th, 2007, 08:50 AM
LOL Shouldn't you be Lt. Colonel John Sheppard? :D :P

I'm kidding of course... nobody shoot me.

ReganX
December 5th, 2007, 08:58 AM
Awww... I wanted to be Jeanie... :(

OK, then... hmm... can I be... Sam Carter? :D Sadly she didn't play as big of a role as Jeanie, but as Sheppard's CO she'll have some say, right?

She'd could probably be a character witness, for the defence or the prosecution depending on who calls her.

Have our prosecutors and defenders decided which witnesses they'll be calling?
Pegasus_SGA - will Sheppard be taking the stand?

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 09:29 AM
i'll be a second judge


LOL Shouldn't you be Lt. Colonel John Sheppard? :D :P

I'm kidding of course... nobody shoot me.

LOL...ironic judging....I will update a new list tonight of who has signed up for what role in the game.

Pegasus_SGA
December 5th, 2007, 09:59 AM
No I signed up as McKay. Heres hoping

Ah did you change your mind? Weren't you initially going to be Todd?


She'd could probably be a character witness, for the defence or the prosecution depending on who calls her.

Have our prosecutors and defenders decided which witnesses they'll be calling?
Pegasus_SGA - will Sheppard be taking the stand?

If it may please the court, Sheppard would like to take the stand. (well, you don't seriously expect me to stay silent do you?) ;) :D :D

expendable_crewman
December 5th, 2007, 10:42 AM
Easy, because he did break protocol not to mention the geneva convention but as I also said it is done all the time when there are greater issues at stake than one life. He omitted certain details to "save face". Also as I have said that is also done when it is necessary.

I know what you mean and it's hard to explain. For Orion's Star, basically, someone in the decison-making tier for a particular event creates an official version and that is the version that gets repeated to inquiring others.

The true version usually stays buried until someone "breaks rank." (That had better not be you, Peg!) And until then, basically the people who made the decision continue to believe they were right to do so but only the guy (Peg!) whose name is on the report is likely to get any of the heat.

Corporations do it. Private citizens do it. Small businesses do it. But governments and people engaged on their behalf are the biggest group, IMO.

Not trying to add to Sheppard's charges here.

This thread does seem to be a bit more light-hearted than the others.

I see a fanfic in here somewhere.

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 10:46 AM
Ah did you change your mind? Weren't you initially going to be Todd?



If it may please the court, Sheppard would like to take the stand. (well, you don't seriously expect me to stay silent do you?) ;) :D :D

of course not...any request from your jail cell?

What would you like for dinner tonight, Colonel Sheppard? The menu is pot roast or fish fry.

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 11:15 AM
Ah did you change your mind? Weren't you initially going to be Todd? Orginally but I decided I would rather be on the side of defense. Me and Peg on the same side. Now thats scary.

Pegasus_SGA
December 5th, 2007, 11:26 AM
of course not...any request from your jail cell?

What would you like for dinner tonight, Colonel Sheppard? The menu is pot roast or fish fry.

I'm suddenly getting flashbacks of my religious education and the Last Supper! :lol:

But since you're cooking, can I have Kwailam Style Prawn Balls as a starter instead, and because i'm so awkward, can I have Mushrooms in breadcrumbs with garlic sauce, please Heavy on the garlic :p ). :D That way if I need to make a break for it, the path will be clear. :D I only have fish on Friday's and i'm not too fussed on pot roasts. :D


Orginally but I decided I would rather be on the side of defense. Me and Peg on the same side. Now thats scary.

Ah you luff me really, Jel. ;) :P :D

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 11:28 AM
I'm suddenly getting flashbacks of my religious education and the Last Supper! :lol:?*But since you're cooking, can I have Kwailam Style Prawn Balls as a starter instead, and because i'm so awkward, can I have Mushrooms in breadcrumbs with garlic sauce, please Heavy on the garlic :p ). :D That way if I need to make a break for it, the path will be clear. :D I only have fish on Friday's and i'm not too fussed on pot roasts. :D?*?*Ah you luff me really, Jel. ;) :P :D??????

Pegasus_SGA
December 5th, 2007, 11:29 AM
What are you confused about?

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 5th, 2007, 11:41 AM
She'd could probably be a character witness, for the defence or the prosecution depending on who calls her.
Yay! Can't wait. :D

(I am NOT getting too excited about this! *huff* The nerve of some people...)


I'm suddenly getting flashbacks of my religious education and the Last Supper! :lol:

But since you're cooking, can I have Kwailam Style Prawn Balls as a starter instead, and because i'm so awkward, can I have Mushrooms in breadcrumbs with garlic sauce, please Heavy on the garlic :p ). :D That way if I need to make a break for it, the path will be clear. :D I only have fish on Friday's and i'm not too fussed on pot roasts. :D
LOL! Eew... I mean, sound delicous, but... :sheppard: + garlic breath = :S, but <3, anyway. :P

P.S. You Catholic? ;)

Pegasus_SGA
December 5th, 2007, 11:46 AM
Yay! Can't wait. :D

(I am NOT getting too excited about this! *huff* The nerve of some people...)


LOL! Eew... I mean, sound delicous, but... :sheppard: + garlic breath = :S, but <3, anyway. :P

P.S. You Catholic? ;)

:lol: It's a strategic plot. ;)

And you're are to getting excited at this, i've never seen you post so much, Myn. :D It's okay, you can admit it, you're amongst friends :P

More of a lapsed Roman Catholic :lol:

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 5th, 2007, 11:55 AM
Clever, clever plot, you devious little thing, you! ;) :D

Yeah, I suppose I am posting more than usual... it must be the fact I'm not making the smilies! :eek: (Shhhh! Not so loud! People will hear you... :weiranime42:)

Ah, the fish on Fridays clued me in. ;) (I'm a not lapsed Roman Catholic... Happy Advent! :D)

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 12:15 PM
I'm suddenly getting flashbacks of my religious education and the Last Supper! :lol:

But since you're cooking, can I have Kwailam Style Prawn Balls as a starter instead, and because i'm so awkward, can I have Mushrooms in breadcrumbs with garlic sauce, please Heavy on the garlic :p ). :D That way if I need to make a break for it, the path will be clear. :D I only have fish on Friday's and i'm not too fussed on pot roasts. :D



Ah you luff me really, Jel. ;) :P :D


Yes, lovely prison food...


I'm not "cooking" Colonel Sheppard--you get jail house food.

If I was "cooking" your menu would be....wet aged seasoned porterhouse steak with mushroom caps sautéed in a dry red whine sauce with a baked potato and house salad. Dessert would be New York style cheese cake with fruit topping and a cup of coffee.

Oops, shouldn't have told you what the guards were having.

However, I did manage to get you a can of little shrimp in brine...enjoy. :mckayanime08: lol.

Maybe you could get McKay to sneak some prawn into you. *snickers*

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 12:18 PM
when Jackie wasn't looking :mckay: passes mushrooms and garlic sauce (that sounds good) to:sheppard:

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 5th, 2007, 12:23 PM
Sam, feeling sorry for John, sneaks past Jackie with some instant chocolate pudding... "Sorry, John, too busy to do any serious cooking... you know, leader of Atlantis and all." :samanime20:

Pegasus_SGA
December 5th, 2007, 12:38 PM
Clever, clever plot, you devious little thing, you! ;) :D

Yeah, I suppose I am posting more than usual... it must be the fact I'm not making the smilies! :eek: (Shhhh! Not so loud! People will hear you... :weiranime42:)

Ah, the fish on Fridays clued me in. ;) (I'm a not lapsed Roman Catholic... Happy Advent! :D)

Thank you *takes a bow then topples over from the shackles*

*ouch*

Happy Advent to you. :D


Yes, lovely prison food...


I'm not "cooking" Colonel Sheppard--you get jail house food.

If I was "cooking" your menu would be....wet aged seasoned porterhouse steak with mushroom caps sautéed in a dry red whine sauce with a baked potato and house salad. Dessert would be New York style cheese cake with fruit topping and a cup of coffee.

Oops, shouldn't have told you what the guards were having.

However, I did manage to get you a can of little shrimp in brine...enjoy. :mckayanime08: lol.

Maybe you could get McKay to sneak some prawn into you. *snickers*

I have only one thing to say... ;)

*cough*

Travelers
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Scully_album/scm.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Scully_album/scm1.jpg

Pegasus_SGA
December 5th, 2007, 12:46 PM
when Jackie wasn't looking :mckay: passes mushrooms and garlic sauce (that sounds good) to:sheppard:


Sam, feeling sorry for John, sneaks past Jackie with some instant chocolate pudding... "Sorry, John, too busy to do any serious cooking... you know, leader of Atlantis and all." :samanime20:

Mmmmm now that's what i'm talking about :D Thanks guys. ;)

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Scully_album/food-1.jpg

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Sam, feeling sorry for John, sneaks past Jackie with some instant chocolate pudding... "Sorry, John, too busy to do any serious cooking... you know, leader of Atlantis and all." :samanime20:

While on patrol I found and confiscated: One pudding--chocolate. Chocolate chip cookies, prawn balls and garlic sauce. Took items back to guardhouse where it was disposed of...M,mm. :)

Returned to John Sheppard's cell with very cold instant coffee...the generic kind no doubt. Liverwurst sandwich...since I can't let him go hungry when he didn't eat what was given to him. All the cooked dinners were already eaten...by this funny doctor who was here as a friend visiting Colonel Sheppard.

He was ID as Dr. McKay and he did compliment me that the jail food did taste better than the MRE's he was ever so fond of. I told him he had no idea what good food tasted like and shooed him away from my steak.

He then questioned me on where to find good donuts. Please, do you really have to ask...just look the donut shop with all the cop car in front.

Upon leaving I requested he bring me back a lemon filled donut and I would save a inmate meal for him--amazingly he agreed.

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 01:26 PM
While on patrol I found and confiscated: One pudding--chocolate. Chocolate chip cookies, prawn balls and garlic sauce. Took items back to guardhouse where it was disposed of...M,mm.?* :) Returned to John Sheppard's cell with very cold instant coffee...the generic kind no doubt. Liverwurst sandwich...since I can't let him go hungry when he didn't eat what was given to him. All the cooked dinners were already eaten...by this funny doctor who was here as a friend visiting Colonel Sheppard. He was ID as Dr. McKay and he did compliment me that the jail food did taste better than the MRE's he was ever so fond of. I told him he had no idea what good food tasted like and shooed him away from my steak.He then questioned me on where to find good donuts. Please, do you really have to ask...just look the donut shop with all the cop car in front. Upon leaving I requested he bring me back a lemon filled donut and I would save a inmate meal for him--amazingly he agreed.I hope Keller was around when you gave me the lemon doughnut.

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 02:07 PM
I hope Keller was around when you gave me the lemon doughnut.

the donut was for me. Mmm

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 02:24 PM
the donut was for me. MmmSinster. I have mix feelings about the trial. On one hand I believe Sheppard is innocent on the other hand I would love to see Peg in a jail cell. I off to eat lasagana :p

ReganX
December 5th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Sinster. I have mix feelings about the trial. On one hand I believe Sheppard is innocent on the other hand I would love to see Peg in a jail cell. I off to eat lasagana :p

I hope the defence lawyers are taking note.

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 04:14 PM
I hope the defence lawyers are taking note.Don't worry, I'm still on the defense side. Since it impossible to offend Peg, I insult her when I can. When I'm in character I'll act exactly as that character would act.

Mitchell82
December 5th, 2007, 04:39 PM
please be aware that I am actively policing this thread and post like this will be sent to the mods. so please refrain from personal attacks if you do not wish to be reported.

also please keep this thread on topic. There will be another thread opened for the actual court proceedings once the cast is in place. This is a GAME available too any member who wishes to play. If you wish to debate...there is another thread open you can debate on.

thank you for your cooperation.
Then report me. I'm sick of people doing nothing but bash this show.

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 04:43 PM
Then report me. I'm sick of people doing nothing but bash this show.

If bother you (and it bothers me) sign up for the defense. The antis bring in so much anger

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 5th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Then report me. I'm sick of people doing nothing but bash this show.
Nobody bashing the show, here. :) This thread is for fun, nothing more. Like Skydiver (a MOD, btw) said, if you'd like to have serious discussion, go to the other thread.

Mitchell82
December 5th, 2007, 05:46 PM
Nobody bashing the show, here. :) This thread is for fun, nothing more. Like Skydiver (a MOD, btw) said, if you'd like to have serious discussion, go to the other thread.

*sigh* You're right. I apologise for any offense I overreacted. Sometimes my anger gets the best of me. I sign up for the defense.

P2J
December 5th, 2007, 05:48 PM
can we do thsi battlestar galactica style like in the end of sesaosn 3 :D

thats a trial i would love to be apart of

Mitchell82
December 5th, 2007, 05:57 PM
can we do thsi battlestar galactica style like in the end of sesaosn 3 :D

thats a trial i would love to be apart of

Not me season 3 stunk. I wouldn't mind sending Baltar to the gallows though.

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 07:19 PM
I started this thread for the purpose of a game--thus the "Hear ye, Hear ye" at the very top of the thread--to have fun exploring the side of law in the situation that was in the episode. There are many people interested in having an active part.

This is not a place to come and pick fights, bash someone because they have concerns about the show and complain about all the "anti" members.

This thread is for a law and order type game.

The tension on this board since the showing of MC has been phenomenally high. Everyone has been at each other's throats--or so it seems to me.

The purpose of this game is to explore the issues raised in MC without bias or prejudice--which is why it is set up as a court proceeding. (Anyone remember Night Court--kind of like that). The law--in theory--is not supposed to have opinion or prejudice and the defendant is innocent till proven guilty.

The last week has been horrific on the MC board--I think everyone has experienced attacks and abuse to some degree, which is why I asked for there not to be any debates on this thread. I have been redded for asking people to behave on this thread and out right yelled at by another member for taking a proactive stance on reporting abuse. This member was not a mod either-- in case you are thinking that she was. I only report the post with personal attacks--not the debates and I was attacked privately for that stance.

I ask for the tension to left at the door when entering this thread, the court proceedings thread and the ending polls. I also ask for no more categorizing of members. Just because they have a different view doesn't make the "Anti" show. So, no catagorizing members based on thier views and opinions.

I have taken a more "what does the law say" approach to the post on the debate threads and have been told some really insane things...but not once have I told another member in a reply post that they're opinion was outright wrong.

I have gone as far as to make sure that I do not take a major role in the game that would place me in a position where another poster would accuse me of trying to fix or rig the trial or convict Sheppard. I have done that out of respect for those who consider themselves "Pro Sheppard" and I have not gotten that respect in return.

Again, this thread is a game and actual people want to play the game without being brought into a debate or bow beat with another member's opinion. Please have the up most respect for the players on this thread.

thank you

jackie

Mitchell82
December 5th, 2007, 08:02 PM
I started this thread for the purpose of a game--thus the "Hear ye, Hear ye" at the very top of the thread--to have fun exploring the side of law in the situation that was in the episode. There are many people interested in having an active part.

This is not a place to come and pick fights, bash someone because they have concerns about the show and complain about all the "anti" members.

This thread is for a law and order type game.

The tension on this board since the showing of MC has been phenomenally high. Everyone has been at each other's throats--or so it seems to me.

The purpose of this game is to explore the issues raised in MC without bias or prejudice--which is why it is set up as a court proceeding. (Anyone remember Night Court--kind of like that). The law--in theory--is not supposed to have opinion or prejudice and the defendant is innocent till proven guilty.

The last week has been horrific on the MC board--I think everyone has experienced attacks and abuse to some degree, which is why I asked for there not to be any debates on this thread. I have been redded for asking people to behave on this thread and out right yelled at by another member for taking a proactive stance on reporting abuse. This member was not a mod either-- in case you are thinking that she was. I only report the post with personal attacks--not the debates and I was attacked privately for that stance.

I ask for the tension to left at the door when entering this thread, the court proceedings thread and the ending polls. I also ask for no more categorizing of members. Just because they have a different view doesn't make the "Anti" show. So, no catagorizing members based on thier views and opinions.

I have taken a more "what does the law say" approach to the post on the debate threads and have been told some really insane things...but not once have I told another member in a reply post that they're opinion was outright wrong.

I have gone as far as to make sure that I do not take a major role in the game that would place me in a position where another poster would accuse me of trying to fix or rig the trial or convict Sheppard. I have done that out of respect for those who consider themselves "Pro Sheppard" and I have not gotten that respect in return.

Again, this thread is a game and actual people want to play the game without being brought into a debate or bow beat with another member's opinion. Please have the up most respect for the players on this thread.

thank you

jackie
You had good intentions and I'm sorry for my part in the attack on you. Oh btw I'm a he, you would have known had you checked my profile. Also regardless of your intent as you said the tension has been high and the the mere title of this thread causes the problems. So I think it might be for the best to have this thread locked.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 5th, 2007, 08:09 PM
I think everyone is over-reacting about everyone over-reacting! :eek: Tensions have been pretty high, but I wouldn't say dangerously high. And I haven't been personally attacked or insulted yet. :D

I think we should continue this thing. :)

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 08:10 PM
You had good intentions and I'm sorry for my part in the attack on you. Oh btw I'm a he, you would have known had you checked my profile. Also regardless of your intent as you said the tension has been high and the the mere title of this thread causes the problems. So I think it might be for the best to have this thread locked.This forum is always hositle. You got two polarized groups. You have the people who absolutely hate the current affairs of the show (anti) and people who think the show is doing great (pro). The contrasting views lead to intense debates. That the case, this thread isn't for debates, its for a mock trial. I think closing this thread is a little extreme. I'm sorry people redded you, Jackie. There are some people who red for the stupidest reasons

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 08:18 PM
You had good intentions and I'm sorry for my part in the attack on you. Oh btw I'm a he, you would have known had you checked my profile. Also regardless of your intent as you said the tension has been high and the the mere title of this thread causes the problems. So I think it might be for the best to have this thread locked.

Thank you :) I sorry too :o! The she was another member though..or at least...I think is was a she. Kind of to tell on these boards...kind of like being a blind person at a transvestite party.

I'm trying to squish the "Anti" "Pro" stuff...:jack_new_anime25: can't stand that labeling. Makes it sound like those who have concerns are just mean people with no brain that just like to complain about anything. And "Pro" as a label makes me think of football.

I'm putting you down for the defense team...but as 3rd attorney cause we already have 2 and defense is outnumbering the prosecution.

I'll be saving this list on the old secondary computer for future reference. I figure that way I can't misplace it again. It's also the only computer with a printer on it in my house.


Here's the update from today:

Ok, so we're up to:

ReganX--Judge
Second Judge: Lt. Colonel John Sheppard...not the one on trial...just his clone.

Third Judge: __________

Bailiff: Jackie
Second Bailiff: __________


Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead
Second prosecutor- Arania

Prosecution witness and experts:
Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff

Defense team:
Defendanse: Konman72--lead
Second Defense : Avidfan
Third defense: Mitchell 82


Defense experts and witness:
_______________
_______________
_______________

Rodney McKay: Jelgate

Jeannie Miller: Kribby

John Sheppard: Peggy

Zelenka: ________________

Agent Barrett: _____________

Sam Carter: Myn Geek, Third Sentinel


Richard Woosely: ________________

General Landry: ________________

Wraith Todd---Jackie--Playing a blood sucking Wraith sounds like fun. :)

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Technically, Sheppard is the defendant and Konman72 is called the defense

Jackie
December 5th, 2007, 08:31 PM
Technically, Sheppard is the defendant and Konman72 is called the defense

fixed it...thanks.

Ranlier
December 5th, 2007, 09:04 PM
.....I prefer the term "arcon", if no one minds.[/joke]

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 09:15 PM
.....I prefer the term "arcon", if no one minds.[/joke]????

Ranlier
December 5th, 2007, 09:31 PM
????

Hahahaha...roooookieeee.

jelgate
December 5th, 2007, 09:35 PM
Hahahaha...roooookieeee.I can't believe I forgot about the Tollian

VSS
December 6th, 2007, 07:19 AM
.....I prefer the term "arcon", if no one minds.[/joke]

Lol! I was just about to watch "Pretense" today.

Linzi
December 6th, 2007, 08:23 AM
Sinster. I have mix feelings about the trial. On one hand I believe Sheppard is innocent on the other hand I would love to see Peg in a jail cell. I off to eat lasagana :p
You would? You guys are cracking me up here!

Thank you :) I sorry too :o! The she was another member though..or at least...I think is was a she. Kind of to tell on these boards...kind of like being a blind person at a transvestite party.

I'm trying to squish the "Anti" "Pro" stuff...:jack_new_anime25: can't stand that labeling. Makes it sound like those who have concerns are just mean people with no brain that just like to complain about anything. And "Pro" as a label makes me think of football.

I'm putting you down for the defense team...but as 3rd attorney cause we already have 2 and defense is outnumbering the prosecution.

I'll be saving this list on the old secondary computer for future reference. I figure that way I can't misplace it again. It's also the only computer with a printer on it in my house.


Here's the update from today:

Ok, so we're up to:

ReganX--Judge
Second Judge: Lt. Colonel John Sheppard...not the one on trial...just his clone.

Third Judge: __________

Bailiff: Jackie
Second Bailiff: __________


Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead
Second prosecutor- Arania

Prosecution witness and experts:
Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff

Defense team:
Defendanse: Konman72--lead
Second Defense : Avidfan
Third defense: Mitchell 82


Defense experts and witness:
_______________
_______________
_______________

Rodney McKay: Jelgate

Jeannie Miller: Kribby

John Sheppard: Peggy

Zelenka: ________________

Agent Barrett: _____________

Sam Carter: Myn Geek, Third Sentinel


Richard Woosely: ________________

General Landry: ________________

Wraith Todd---Jackie--Playing a blood sucking Wraith sounds like fun. :)

I can't wait for this! Peggy as Sheppard? God help us all! :eek: Jelgate as part of the defense? This is going to be great entertainment! When's the trial starting? :) Jackie? You sure there's no part for the screaming fangirl? :( I'm perfect for it! Though the judge might have to hold me in contempt of court every now and then, and then I could be locked up with Sheppy, or Peggy :eek:

Kribby
December 6th, 2007, 08:35 AM
Hey.... so should I write a statement for Jeannie?

I can't decide if she is for the defense or for the prosecution.

Though I believe she was suffering a bit from Stockholm syndrome... it is definitely true that she felt sympathy for the father.

Alipeeps
December 6th, 2007, 09:34 AM
I started this thread for the purpose of a game--thus the "Hear ye, Hear ye" at the very top of the thread--to have fun exploring the side of law in the situation that was in the episode. There are many people interested in having an active part.

This is not a place to come and pick fights, bash someone because they have concerns about the show and complain about all the "anti" members.

This thread is for a law and order type game.

The tension on this board since the showing of MC has been phenomenally high. Everyone has been at each other's throats--or so it seems to me.

The purpose of this game is to explore the issues raised in MC without bias or prejudice--which is why it is set up as a court proceeding. (Anyone remember Night Court--kind of like that). The law--in theory--is not supposed to have opinion or prejudice and the defendant is innocent till proven guilty.

The last week has been horrific on the MC board--I think everyone has experienced attacks and abuse to some degree, which is why I asked for there not to be any debates on this thread. I have been redded for asking people to behave on this thread and out right yelled at by another member for taking a proactive stance on reporting abuse. This member was not a mod either-- in case you are thinking that she was. I only report the post with personal attacks--not the debates and I was attacked privately for that stance.

I ask for the tension to left at the door when entering this thread, the court proceedings thread and the ending polls. I also ask for no more categorizing of members. Just because they have a different view doesn't make the "Anti" show. So, no catagorizing members based on thier views and opinions.

I have taken a more "what does the law say" approach to the post on the debate threads and have been told some really insane things...but not once have I told another member in a reply post that they're opinion was outright wrong.

I have gone as far as to make sure that I do not take a major role in the game that would place me in a position where another poster would accuse me of trying to fix or rig the trial or convict Sheppard. I have done that out of respect for those who consider themselves "Pro Sheppard" and I have not gotten that respect in return.

Again, this thread is a game and actual people want to play the game without being brought into a debate or bow beat with another member's opinion. Please have the up most respect for the players on this thread.

thank you

jackie

Tbh, although I get that this thread is meant to be in fun, I think the tone of the opening post probably didn't help, given the tensions you rightly remarked upon in the forums at the moment... only my personal interpretation of course, but your opening post did seem to be written from the point of view that Sheppard was guilty and should answer for his actions, as opposed to the stated "innocent until proven guilty" ethos. That could come over to some people as leaning towards character bashing. Fans are fans and we know from bitter experience on here that people get very protective of their favourite characters and some folks feel the need to respond to any suggestion of an attack on their fave... and tempers can get heated and things can be said in the heat of the moment that on reflection probably shouldn't be.

That is what the report post function is there for and I'm sure no-one has any issues with you or anyone else reporting posts that are aggressive or attacking or break the rules - publicly warning people that you are "actively policing the thread" however does seem to me to be a little overkill. People don't need to be told that you are going to be vetting their posts and reporting infractions - it's far better to stay out of public discussion of the issue, simply report the posts without making a fuss about it and let the mods deal with it. If people do misbehave, don't get involved, report the posts and just let the mods do their thing. It's what the mods ask us to do and it means a lot less aggro for everyone.

I don't think it's necessary for the thread to be locked and it looks like the initial aggro has died down and the people who are getting involved in this game are doing so in the light-hearted manner intended. And, let's face it, with Peggy involved there's no way this thing is ever gonna get serious! :lol:

*hugs Peggy* ;)

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 10:12 AM
And, let's face it, with Peggy involved there's no way this thing is ever gonna get serious! :lol:*hugs Peggy* ;)Isn't that the truth. What can you expect from a whumper. That don't take anything serious. Time to get into character. Did you guys know that I am a genius

Alipeeps
December 6th, 2007, 10:36 AM
Isn't that the truth. What can you expect from a whumper. That don't take anything serious. Time to get into character. Did you guys know that I am a genius

What can you expect from a whumper? Hmmm. To get whumped probably.. ;)

Didn't momma never tell you not to play with fire? :D

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 10:59 AM
Hey.... so should I write a statement for Jeannie?

I can't decide if she is for the defense or for the prosecution.

Though I believe she was suffering a bit from Stockholm syndrome... it is definitely true that she felt sympathy for the father.

That would probably depend on which side calls her. The other side would have the option of cross-examining her.

Pegasus_SGA
December 6th, 2007, 11:05 AM
While on patrol I found and confiscated: One pudding--chocolate. Chocolate chip cookies, prawn balls and garlic sauce. Took items back to guardhouse where it was disposed of...M,mm.

Hey!! I was enjoying that stuff!

*looks at pile of crap on her plate*

*moves said pile of crappy food from one side to the other*



Returned to John Sheppard's cell with very cold instant coffee...the generic kind no doubt. Liverwurst sandwich...since I can't let him go hungry when he didn't eat what was given to him. All the cooked dinners were already eaten...by this funny doctor who was here as a friend visiting Colonel Sheppard.


Under the rules of the Human Rights Act, I demand hot coffee! I hereby state for the record that i'm being breached of my human rights, Article 3, states specifically that I should not be tortured. I hereby decree that serving me with cold coffee is torture!!


Sinster. I have mix feelings about the trial. On one hand I believe Sheppard is innocent on the other hand I would love to see Peg in a jail cell. I off to eat lasagana

:eek: Hey you're supposed to be on my side! You know it's never too late to be the prosecutor


I hope the defence lawyers are taking note.

I know! And he calls himself my friend All the times I've saved his sorry little ass.. well except for that one stray arrow ;)


Don't worry, I'm still on the defense side. Since it impossible to offend Peg, I insult her when I can. When I'm in character I'll act exactly as that character would act.

I have the right to change my defence councel if I feel they may be biased.. oooh there's an idea, wait unti afterwards and call for a mistrial. ;) :P :D


*sigh* You're right. I apologise for any offense I overreacted. Sometimes my anger gets the best of me. I sign up for the defense.

*huggles* Glad you're coming to play with us It'll be fun. Trust me :D


You would? You guys are cracking me up here!


I can't wait for this! Peggy as Sheppard? God help us all! :eek: Jelgate as part of the defense? This is going to be great entertainment! When's the trial starting? :) Jackie? You sure there's no part for the screaming fangirl? :( I'm perfect for it! Though the judge might have to hold me in contempt of court every now and then, and then I could be locked up with Sheppy, or Peggy :eek:

:lol: and Hey! ;) It sure will be interesting. I think a room of screaming fangirls could be just the thing to boost Shep's spirits. ;)




I don't think it's necessary for the thread to be locked and it looks like the initial aggro has died down and the people who are getting involved in this game are doing so in the light-hearted manner intended. And, let's face it, with Peggy involved there's no way this thing is ever gonna get serious! :lol:

*hugs Peggy* ;)

I do try and be serious. :o But I bore myself too much. :lol: I really am a boring old fart when i'm serious, where's the fun in that? :P

*hugs Ali, then thwacks her for being cheeky*

What? I'm a whumper it's expected. Besides that how people know we care. :D


Isn't that the truth. What can you expect from a whumper. That don't take anything serious. Time to get into character. Did you guys know that I am a genius

*gets into character to and thwacks McKay upside the head* :D

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 11:10 AM
You had good intentions and I'm sorry for my part in the attack on you. Oh btw I'm a he, you would have known had you checked my profile. Also regardless of your intent as you said the tension has been high and the the mere title of this thread causes the problems.

It's an accurate description of the purpose of the thread. What would be the sense in giving it a cryptic title rather than a straight-forward one? If anything, the current title ensures that people know that this is, indeed, the court martial of Lt Col John Sheppard. If they choose to investigate, they know what the topic is.

Nobody is holding a gun at the heads of those who find the subject of the thread offensive and forcing them to read it. They are perfectly free to avoid it if they so choose.


So I think it might be for the best to have this thread locked.

I would have to disagree. Shutting down a thread that is not breaking the rules purely to kowtow to the whims of those who object to its content would be a bad idea in my opinion, and a precedent that I would not like to see set. What next? "I dislike Character A, so the Pro-Character A thread should be banned" "Season Whatever is the best eva! Get rid of the Anti-Season Whatever thread because I'm right and everyone else is wrong, wrong, wrong!"?

Personally, I think that Jackie's idea is a clever way of discussing what seems to be a controversial issue. It's fun, first and foremost, but more than that it provides a model where both sides of the debate are welcome to present their cases, and have those cases heard (or read, as the case may be) and at the end, everyone will have the opportunity to decide for themselves, based on the arguments presented.

Surely that's better than a lengthy thread consisting of endless

"He was wrong!"
"He was right!"
"Wrong!"
"Right"
"Wrong!"
"Right"
"WRONG!!!"
"RIGHT!!!"

posts.

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 11:14 AM
Under the rules of the Human Rights Act, I demand hot coffee! I hereby state for the record that i'm being breached of my human rights, Article 3, states specifically that I should not be tortured. I hereby decree that serving me with cold coffee is torture!!

As lead judge, I hereby order that Colonel Sheppard be provided with hot coffee.

I will not have a cranky, caffeine-deprived defendant in my courtroom!

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 11:18 AM
When's the trial starting? :)

Apparently I get to call the trial to order. Once the defence and prosecution teams have submitted a list of their witnesses (and those playing them) and indicated that they are ready to proceed, all systems go.

The_Carpenter
December 6th, 2007, 11:21 AM
As lead judge, I hereby order that Colonel Sheppard be provided with hot coffee.

I will not have a cranky, caffeine-deprived defendant in my courtroom!

Maybe you should allow a conjugal visit from Larren as well... you want a horny defendant even less than a caffeine-deprived one :sheppard:

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Thank you Judge Reganx for putting the matter of public notice to rest. The notice does have to say what Sheppard is in jail for and what he will be going to trial for. There is no way that I can think of that would place someone on trial with no charges against them. I gave charges...not convictions.

There is no reason to sugar coat the opening post just because some people were all worked up and jumped to the conclusion that this is a witch hunt.



bailiff report:

Confiscated Starbucks gourmet coffee from Colonel Sheppard's cell that was hid under his bed with a stash of candy, catalogs, books, dvd's personal DVD player, laptop computer, chips, popcorn, coffee maker, microwave, and cell phone, toiletry kit with shampoo, hair gel, soap, Old Spice, electric razor, and anti-age wrinkle cream all next to a pair of fuzzy slippers.

provided inmate with:

1 hot instant coffee--decaf
1 roll toilet paper
1 roll paper towel
1 hand towel
1 bar of soap
1 bottle shampoo
2 sets of new underwear
2 sets of prisoner orange jumpsuits
2 sets of new socks
1 safety razor with safety mirror
1 set standard issue white canvas tennis shoes.

Konman72
December 6th, 2007, 11:35 AM
Whoa, this thing blew up while I was away. If I am needed for anything please, someone, email me. I log on frequently but sometimes I space it. Once the trial starts I'll be sure to get on for everything, but before that I just want to make sure I am up to date on everything.

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Whoa, this thing blew up while I was away. If I am needed for anything please, someone, email me. I log on frequently but sometimes I space it. Once the trial starts I'll be sure to get on for everything, but before that I just want to make sure I am up to date on everything.

when you're ready...let ReganX know and then she can call the trial to order once the defense is set too.

Pegasus_SGA
December 6th, 2007, 12:08 PM
As lead judge, I hereby order that Colonel Sheppard be provided with hot coffee.

I will not have a cranky, caffeine-deprived defendant in my courtroom!

Thank you, your honour. Just for the record, I will of course still be cranky though. Just a bit less now that I get my coffee. ;)


Maybe you should allow a conjugal visit from Larren as well... you want a horny defendant even less than a caffeine-deprived one :sheppard:

:eek: I wouldn't need the defence to do me over, Larrin would do the job for free! ;)


Thank you Judge Reganx for putting the matter of public notice to rest. The notice does have to say what Sheppard is in jail for and what he will be going to trial for. There is no way that I can think of that would place someone on trial with no charges against them. I gave charges...not convictions.

bailiff report:

Confiscated Starbucks gourmet coffee from Colonel Sheppard's cell that was hid under his bed with a stash of candy, catalogs, books, dvd's personal DVD player, laptop computer, chips, popcorn, coffee maker, microwave, and cell phone, toiletry kit with shampoo, hair gel, soap, Old Spice, electric razor, and anti-age wrinkle cream all next to a pair of fuzzy slippers.

provided inmate with:

1 hot instant coffee--decaf
1 roll toilet paper
1 roll paper towel
1 hand towel
1 bar of soap
1 bottle shampoo
2 sets of new underwear
2 sets of prisoner orange jumpsuits
2 sets of new socks
1 safety razor with safety mirror
1 set standard issue white canvas tennis shoes.

If it may please the court. I feel that the list above is a fallacy! I offer proof as way of this picture. I ask you, your honour, do I look like i've used a razor?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Scully_album/shaved.jpg

Given the weight of this new evidence, I feel that the Bailiff is simply trying to get in favour with the judge by stating she has taken care of my basic human rights, when as you can she has not. I ask the court that the baliff retract her report and state for the record how she abused the prisoner (namely me) by serving me cold coffee! I believe you ruled in my favour last time your honour, and have felt the need to rectify this traversty of justice. Thank you. *bows before the wise and wonderful Judge ReganX* :P

Ranlier
December 6th, 2007, 12:10 PM
I need Rodney McKay, Hank Landry, Richard Woolsey, and...... *drumroll please*

General Jack O'Neill.

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 12:16 PM
If it may please the court. I feel that the list above is a fallacy! I offer proof as way of this picture. I ask you, your honour, do I look like i've used a razor? ?*http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Scully_album/shaved.jpg ?*Given the weight of this new evidence, I feel that the Bailiff is simply trying to get in favour with the judge by stating she has taken care of my basic human rights, when as you can she has not. I ask the court that the baliff retract her report and state for the record how she abused the prisoner (namely me) by serving me cold coffee! I believe you ruled in my favour last time your honour, and have felt the need to rectify this traversty of justice. Thank you. *bows before the wise and wonderful Judge ReganX* :PIf it will please the honorable Judge ReganX, I have seen the Baliff toturing the defeandant (Sheppard/Peg) on numerous occassions. This is a viollation of the Geneva Convention. As a friend of the defendant I would ask Judge ReganX that he get the treatment that all prisioners deserve Thank you your honor
I need Rodney McKay, Hank Landry, Richard Woolsey, and...... *drumroll please*General Jack O'Neill.I'm here to serve (McKay)

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 01:51 PM
bailiff report:

Confiscated Starbucks gourmet coffee from Colonel Sheppard's cell that was hid under his bed with a stash of candy, catalogs, books, dvd's personal DVD player, laptop computer, chips, popcorn, coffee maker, microwave, and cell phone, toiletry kit with shampoo, hair gel, soap, Old Spice, electric razor, and anti-age wrinkle cream all next to a pair of fuzzy slippers.

provided inmate with:

1 hot instant coffee--decaf
1 roll toilet paper
1 roll paper towel
1 hand towel
1 bar of soap
1 bottle shampoo
2 sets of new underwear
2 sets of prisoner orange jumpsuits
2 sets of new socks
1 safety razor with safety mirror
1 set standard issue white canvas tennis shoes.

Thank you, Bailiff. However, as Sheppard has not yet been found guilty of any crime, he may wear his own clothes if he so chooses. His books, catalogs, toiletry kit and fuzzy slippers may be returned to him, after proper security checks. I leave the issue of the DVDs, DVD player and laptop to the discretion of the prison authorities.

Regarding candy and other goodies, is there a tuck shop in the prison that Colonel Sheppard may order supplies from*? If so, he should be permitted to place an order at least once a day.



*What are prisons like in the US, by the way? I went on a tour of one in Ireland, and everyone wore their own clothes, had their own radio, TV and bathroom facilities in their cells, with a tuck shop for sweets, magazines, etc. The prisoners had better catering than the prison officers!

Above recommendations are based on my knowledge of Irish prisons, so if one of the other judges is more knowledgable about US military prisons than I am, they should please feel free to overrule them.

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 01:55 PM
If it may please the court. I feel that the list above is a fallacy! I offer proof as way of this picture. I ask you, your honour, do I look like i've used a razor?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Scully_album/shaved.jpg

No. However, it is no indication of whether or not you were given a razor.

Could the bailiff please provide a signed statement from the prison authorities confirming that the aforementioned items were delivered?

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 02:02 PM
I need Rodney McKay, Hank Landry, Richard Woolsey, and...... *drumroll please*

General Jack O'Neill.

So we need a Landry, a Woolsey and a Jack, right?

Any volunteers?

Ruffles
December 6th, 2007, 03:07 PM
Thank you, Bailiff. However, as Sheppard has not yet been found guilty of any crime, he may wear his own clothes if he so chooses. His books, catalogs, toiletry kit and fuzzy slippers may be returned to him, after proper security checks. I leave the issue of the DVDs, DVD player and laptop to the discretion of the prison authorities.

Regarding candy and other goodies, is there a tuck shop in the prison that Colonel Sheppard may order supplies from*? If so, he should be permitted to place an order at least once a day.



*What are prisons like in the US, by the way? I went on a tour of one in Ireland, and everyone wore their own clothes, had their own radio, TV and bathroom facilities in their cells, with a tuck shop for sweets, magazines, etc. The prisoners had better catering than the prison officers!

Above recommendations are based on my knowledge of Irish prisons, so if one of the other judges is more knowledgable about US military prisons than I am, they should please feel free to overrule them.

Would he be in a military prison? I would assume he would be held (as well as the trial) at the SGC due to the need for secrecy.


So we need a Landry, a Woolsey and a Jack, right?

Any volunteers?

*volunteers to be Jack*

blue-skyz
December 6th, 2007, 03:27 PM
I need Rodney McKay, Hank Landry, Richard Woolsey, and...... *drumroll please*

General Jack O'Neill.

I'll be Landry, if you don't have one yet.

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 03:34 PM
Would he be in a military prison? I would assume he would be held (as well as the trial) at the SGC due to the need for secrecy.

Good point. I'm sure the SGC can make arrangements for my recommendations to be followed.

Atlantis1
December 6th, 2007, 03:34 PM
Atlantis1 watches the events since she already has her mind made up that Sheppard did the right thing.

Will the court be taking into account that Mr Wallace would have suffered worst had he been made to live with his crimes? :D Enquiring minds want to know. :D

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 03:34 PM
*volunteers to be Jack*


I'll be Landry, if you don't have one yet.

Great. :)

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Atlantis1 watches the events since she already has her mind made up that Sheppard did the right thing.

There may be a character you can play on the defence side, if you like.


Will the court be taking into account that Mr Wallace would have suffered worst had he been made to live with his crimes? :D Enquiring minds want to know. :D

It'll be up to defence and prosecution to make the arguments about whether or not Sheppard was justified in his actions.

However, as a point of clarification, for my own benefit, is that actually relevant under US law? If somebody is on Death Row, and they are killed by a guard/visitor/other inmate before they are due to be executed - it's still called murder, right?

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 03:51 PM
Thank you, your honour. Just for the record, I will of course still be cranky though. Just a bit less now that I get my coffee. ;)



:eek: I wouldn't need the defence to do me over, Larrin would do the job for free! ;)



If it may please the court. I feel that the list above is a fallacy! I offer proof as way of this picture. I ask you, your honour, do I look like i've used a razor?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Scully_album/shaved.jpg

Given the weight of this new evidence, I feel that the Bailiff is simply trying to get in favour with the judge by stating she has taken care of my basic human rights, when as you can she has not. I ask the court that the baliff retract her report and state for the record how she abused the prisoner (namely me) by serving me cold coffee! I believe you ruled in my favour last time your honour, and have felt the need to rectify this traversty of justice. Thank you. *bows before the wise and wonderful Judge ReganX* :P

Does the judge wish to keep the prisoner in jail or release him? If he is to remain in jail (from the mp arrest) he needs to follow protocol and have only state supplied issues. If you wish to release him then please make that so.


No. However, it is no indication of whether or not you were given a razor.

Could the bailiff please provide a signed statement from the prison authorities confirming that the aforementioned items were delivered?

See upper statement. I have to voucher the supply officer signed on your desk. It was choice to use the razor--can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink ya know.


Atlantis1 watches the events since she already has her mind made up that Sheppard did the right thing.

Will the court be taking into account that Mr Wallace would have suffered worst had he been made to live with his crimes? :D Enquiring minds want to know. :D

Would Atlantis1 like to be the reporter for the civilians working on Atlantis who wish to follow their comrades case?

Current report:

I am sitting in a chair next to Shep's cell with a piece of cheese cake and a hot cup of coffee and waiting for the judges order's to release or keep the defendant while I eat in very slowly in front of him. M,mmm.

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Does the judge wish to keep the prisoner in jail or release him? If he is to remain in jail (from the mp arrest) he needs to follow protocol and have only state supplied issues. If you wish to release him then please make that so.

Under the circumstances, I think that Colonel Sheppard could be released from prison but to remain in base quarters at the SGC, under guard, until his trial. His access codes are to be locked out of all systems.



So people who are in prison on remand have to go the whole hog with prison jumpsuits, etc. Wow.

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Current report:I am sitting in a chair next to Shep's cell with a piece of cheese cake and a hot cup of coffee and waiting for the judges order's to release or keep the defendant while I eat in very slowly in front of him. M,mmm.Judge ReganX:This is a violation Sheppard's 8th Amendments rights as it is considered "cruel and unusual punishment." especiall considering he is innocent until proven guilty

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 04:01 PM
See upper statement. I have to voucher the supply officer signed on your desk. It was choice to use the razor--can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink ya know.

Thank you. :)

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 04:03 PM
Judge ReganX:This is a violation Sheppard's 8th Amendments rights as it is considered "cruel and unusual punishment." especiall considering he is innocent until proven guilty

Has the defendant been served his dinner yet, or are you suggesting that the bailiff is starving him?

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Has the defendant been served his dinner yet, or are you suggesting that the bailiff is starving him?I'm suggesting the baliff is eating normal food and toturing Sheppard with it while he has to eat prison food

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 04:17 PM
I'm suggesting the baliff is eating normal food and toturing Sheppard with it while he has to eat prison food

Does the prison food meet proper nutritional standards?

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 04:34 PM
Does the prison food meet proper nutritional standards?

It's FDA approved! Honestly shep--your such a whiner. Her--have some crumbs. ;)

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 04:39 PM
It's FDA approved! Honestly shep--your such a whiner. Her--have some crumbs. ;)

Could you describe the menu - I'm thinking in terms of the food standards in prison I visited, in which case there'd be no cause for complaint.

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Serving Colonel Sheppard his dinner:

Meatloaf with mashed potatoes and butter with green beens. Dessert is a cup of ice cream and he chose to drink a coke this evening.

For his entertainment I brought in my personal collection of the Bee Gee' greatest disco hits and have started the music on my personal CD player...which is just out of his reach but by his cell.

He did state he wanted to listen to some music earlier. Bee Gee's--Johnny Cash--same thing.

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 04:43 PM
Serving Colonel Sheppard his dinner:

Meatloaf with mashed potatoes and butter with green beens. Dessert is a cup of ice cream and he chose to drink a coke this evening.

For his entertainment I brought in my personal collection of the Bee Gee' greatest disco hits and have started the music on my personal CD player...which is just out of his reach but by his cell.

He did state he wanted to listen to some music earlier. Bee Gee's--Johnny Cash--same thing.

Sounds reasonable. There were no complaints, or indication that he disliked/was allergic to any of the food served?

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 04:47 PM
Serving Colonel Sheppard his dinner:

Meatloaf with mashed potatoes and butter with green beens. Dessert is a cup of ice cream and he chose to drink a coke this evening.

For his entertainment I brought in my personal collection of the Bee Gee' greatest disco hits and have started the music on my personal CD player...which is just out of his reach but by his cell.

He did state he wanted to listen to some music earlier. Bee Gee's--Johnny Cash--same thing.
No fruits or grains. He is going to be in trouble if he has to fight a Wraith in the near future

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 04:49 PM
No fruits or grains. He is going to be in trouble if he has to fight a Wraith in the near future

(a) Why?
(b) Are we expecting a Wraith attack anytime soon? Aren't they busy in Pegasus?

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 04:50 PM
However, as a point of clarification, for my own benefit, is that actually relevant under US law? If somebody is on Death Row, and they are killed by a guard/visitor/other inmate before they are due to be executed - it's still called murder, right?

Yes, it's murder because the state cannot have him killed before the date and time set and there is only one man who will be authorized to actually--flip the switch. If another guard attacks him--it's assult and if he dies--it's murder.


Under the circumstances, I think that Colonel Sheppard could be released from prison but to remain in base quarters at the SGC, under guard, until his trial. His access codes are to be locked out of all systems.



So people who are in prison on remand have to go the whole hog with prison jumpsuits, etc. Wow.

After completing his meal--shep was released to go to his room. Where I have assigned guards to babysit him. He is locked out of all critical access points. Do you also authorize him to leave to leave the base or stay under--house arrest?

ReganX
December 6th, 2007, 04:53 PM
Yes, it's murder because the state cannot have him killed before the date and time set and there is only one man who will be authorized to actually--flip the switch. If another guard attacks him--it's assult and if he dies--it's murder.

Thanks for the clarification.


After completing his meal--shep was released to go to his room. Where I have assigned guards to babysit him. He is locked out of all critical access points. Do you also authorize him to leave to leave the base or stay under--house arrest?

He is to remain on the base, under guard. I take it that I can leave arrangements in your hands regarding access to the gym and the like?

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 04:53 PM
No fruits or grains. He is going to be in trouble if he has to fight a Wraith in the near future


(a) Why?
(b) Are we expecting a Wraith attack anytime soon? Aren't they busy in Pegasus?

Do you know something we don't jelgate? Hmm, perhaps the judge wishes to warrant an investigation of the security of Atlantis when Shep is out for vacation here.

He had raisin bran for breakfast--why else would he need a whole roll of toilet paper?

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the clarification.



He is to remain on the base, under guard. I take it that I can leave arrangements in your hands regarding access to the gym and the like?

Yes you honor--btw--shep looks cute in shorts and a t-shirt. note to self--get copy of surveillance photos of Sheppard in shorts.

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 05:00 PM
cast update:

Ok, so we're up to:

ReganX--Judge
Second Judge: Lt Colonel John Sheppard
Third Judge: __________

Bailiff: Jackie
Second Bailiff: __________

Prosecutors: Ranlier--lead
Second prosecutor- Arania

Prosecution witness and experts:
Expert medical witness: Vastlysuperiorstuff

Defense team:
Defendant: Konman72--lead
Second Defense : Avidfan
Third Defense: Mitchell 82

Defense experts and witness:
_______________
_______________
_______________

Rodney McKay: Jelgate

Jeannie Miller: Kribby

John Sheppard: Peggy

Zelenka: ________________

Agent Barrett: _____________

Sam Carter: Myn Geek, Third Sentinel

Richard Woosely: ________________

General Landry: blue-skyz

General O’Neill: Ruffles

Wraith Todd: me


Did I miss anyone?

Iguana775
December 6th, 2007, 05:02 PM
who cares. it's a TV show.

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 05:05 PM
who cares.?* it's a TV show.Its just for entertainment. If you don't like it, go to another thread. How come Jackie gets to be a baliff and a Wraith. Is she getting bored of toturing Sheppard

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 05:08 PM
Its just for entertainment. If you don't like it, go to another thread. How come Jackie gets to be a baliff and a Wraith. Is she getting bored of toturing Sheppard

sheppard has been released to his quarters...so I decided to torture you after I found out you wants it...love ya anyways though :samanime51:

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 05:44 PM
sheppard has been released to his quarters...so I decided to torture you after I found out you wants it...love ya anyways though :samanime51:Toturing me will get you cell next to Sheppard because I haven't committed a crime and toture is illegal in the US Judge ReganX, I assume toture is illegal in Ireland

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 05:59 PM
Toturing me will get you cell next to Sheppard because I haven't committed a crime and toture is illegal in the US Judge ReganX, I assume toture is illegal in Ireland

I live out in the boonies--everything is illegal out here but that don't stop us form--you get the picture.

How would you like you road killed possum tonight?

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 06:23 PM
I perfer the hamburgers and baked potatoes I had for dinner

Jackie
December 6th, 2007, 06:34 PM
I perfer the hamburgers and baked potatoes I had for dinner

possum burgers are no problem...the meat is already tenderized and we just add a lil tobacco sauce and viola--possum ala char. Just ask colonel sheppard...bet his possum meatloaf was good.

jelgate
December 6th, 2007, 07:07 PM
I am going out of character for a second to ask have we set a time for this mock trial

Actionhank
December 6th, 2007, 08:09 PM
If you need one - I can be the hangman. :D I will execute order 66 with pleasure. ^^
I could be another guy in the background, like say the guy who makes coffee and brings the finger food and stuff like that. Of course I'm also very talented as the guard with the grim face just standing there for hours.

andromeda_dan
December 6th, 2007, 08:38 PM
you guys miss the court sketch artist

Atlantis1
December 6th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Yes, it's murder because the state cannot have him killed before the date and time set and there is only one man who will be authorized to actually--flip the switch. If another guard attacks him--it's assult and if he dies--it's murder.

I need one more question on this account. If court proves Wallace chose to give his life to feed Todd then hasn't he commited suicide? (Question from John Doe on Atlantis.)

Also, what is a wraith doing on the loose feeding Sheppard? Aren't we afraid he might feed on the prisoner? ;)

Atlantis1
December 6th, 2007, 11:22 PM
Would Atlantis1 like to be the reporter for the civilians working on Atlantis who wish to follow their comrades case?

Current report:

I am sitting in a chair next to Shep's cell with a piece of cheese cake and a hot cup of coffee and waiting for the judges order's to release or keep the defendant while I eat in very slowly in front of him. M,mmm.

The slower the better. That way I can protect him from Todd. Besides, the scenery is quite fine.! :D

Jackie
December 7th, 2007, 04:18 AM
I need one more question on this account. If court proves Wallace chose to give his life to feed Todd then hasn't he commited suicide? (Question from John Doe on Atlantis.)

Also, what is a wraith doing on the loose feeding Sheppard? Aren't we afraid he might feed on the prisoner? ;)

Todd the wriath is still locked up on Atlantis right now. Don't know what or who they will feed him.

I think what the court has to decide a few things:

1. was wallace competent enough to make that choice to give up his life or was he stressed to the point where he could not truly comprehend what allowing a wraith to feed on him would mean?

2. in such a case where a human life is required to keep an enemy with vital info alive...is it justifiable to alllow the suicide of another inmate or for matter any other person on that base?

3. is it justified to allow a man to kill himself while in custody of an armed force?

4. was there deception in the case? For example...why would Sheppard be giving a tour of the lab to a prisoner who has been charged with attempted murder and kidnapping?

5. did sheppard knowingly and willfully commit the crime of assisted suicide?

6. did sheppard knowingly and willingly premeditate the crime?

7. does assisted suicide accurately define the alleged crime?

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 04:46 AM
I think what the court has to decide a few things:

1. was wallace competent enough to make that choice to give up his life or was he stressed to the point where he could not truly comprehend what allowing a wraith to feed on him would mean?

2. in such a case where a human life is required to keep an enemy with vital info alive...is it justifiable to alllow the suicide of another inmate or for matter any other person on that base?

3. is it justified to allow a man to kill himself while in custody of an armed force?

4. was there deception in the case? For example...why would Sheppard be giving a tour of the lab to a prisoner who has been charged with attempted murder and kidnapping?

5. did sheppard knowingly and willfully commit the crime of assisted suicide?

6. did sheppard knowingly and willingly premeditate the crime?

7. does assisted suicide accurately define the alleged crime?
Add to those:

Was Sheppard following orders? Or. Was he acting with the knowledge of his superiors?

How does being in a state of war change how military actions are perceived?

scholar
December 7th, 2007, 08:07 AM
1. was wallace competent enough to make that choice to give up his life or was he stressed to the point where he could not truly comprehend what allowing a wraith to feed on him would mean?


As a side note to this, at Wallace's company, there were the closed circuit tv's in his office. It needs to be determined if there are any tapes available from them. If so, that would be important evidence to this case.

Ruffles
December 7th, 2007, 08:11 AM
So people who are in prison on remand have to go the whole hog with prison jumpsuits, etc. Wow.

In prison is in prison - you are treated like every other prisoner even if you haven't been convicted yet.

I think it would be helpful to know exactly where Shep is. Is he being held under guard at the SGC (you don't have to worry about menu there - whatever the mess hall made is what he's having) or is he allowed to roam around the facility and just not leave (sort of like released on his own recognizance)? Or is he being held in a secured facility offsite?

Jackie
December 7th, 2007, 08:17 AM
In prison is in prison - you are treated like every other prisoner even if you haven't been convicted yet.

I think it would be helpful to know exactly where Shep is. Is he being held under guard at the SGC (you don't have to worry about menu there - whatever the mess hall made is what he's having) or is he allowed to roam around the facility and just not leave (sort of like released on his own recognizance)? Or is he being held in a secured facility offsite?

the judge ordered him confined to his room at the SGC--under guard.

he gets his meals delivered from the commissary and gets time in the workout facility every day.

all visitations are under guard.

(he's got it pretty easy compared to Todd the wraith)

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 08:20 AM
(he's got it pretty easy compared to Todd the wraith)

Gee, I wonder how many humans Todd the Wraith has killed.

The_Carpenter
December 7th, 2007, 08:23 AM
In prison is in prison - you are treated like every other prisoner even if you haven't been convicted yet.



So much for innocent till proven guilty then... buts that's a whole other can of worms!

Jackie
December 7th, 2007, 08:36 AM
Gee, I wonder how many humans Todd the Wraith has killed.


So much for innocent till proven guilty then... buts that's a whole other can of worms!


please take any moral debates to another thread.

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 08:46 AM
please take any moral debates to another thread.
(he's got it pretty easy compared to Todd the wraith)

You compared his condition to Todd’s. I’m just saying that that’s appropriate.

Ruffles
December 7th, 2007, 08:47 AM
So much for innocent till proven guilty then... buts that's a whole other can of worms!

The question was being in prison on remand. A prisoner is usually only remanded to custody if you can prove they are a danger to society or a flight risk. Most people that have been arrested are released on bond.

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 09:09 AM
In prison is in prison - you are treated like every other prisoner even if you haven't been convicted yet.
I think that prisoners who have not been convicted are not in real prisons with serious convicted prisoners. They are held elsewhere. It used to be jail, and probably still is in most places, where those awaiting trial and people convicted or minor infractions with short term sentences are kept. Jails are usually attached to police stations or court house complexes in smaller cities and towns. Other areas have separate facilities but the intention is the same: to keep real criminals away from minor criminals and those not yet convicted.

None of which applies here, since Sheppard would be held in the SGC or released on his own recognizance. He is an officer, has 20 years(?) in the Air Force and is unlikely to be a danger to the general population. He would, at least, have the freedom of the less secure areas of the SGC.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 7th, 2007, 09:24 AM
However, as a point of clarification, for my own benefit, is that actually relevant under US law? If somebody is on Death Row, and they are killed by a guard/visitor/other inmate before they are due to be executed - it's still called murder, right?
I just watched an X-Files episode about people on death row... and murder, severed heads, and maggots. :D

I hope I (Sam Carter) am actually needed for the Court Martial...

ReganX
December 7th, 2007, 12:56 PM
Toturing me will get you cell next to Sheppard because I haven't committed a crime and toture is illegal in the US Judge ReganX, I assume toture is illegal in Ireland

I certainly hope so... although the rules for prisons do contain provision for flogging - scary, as they were only written about sixty years ago. Obviously, it's not done nowadays.

ReganX
December 7th, 2007, 12:57 PM
If it may please the court I have a proof that Sheppard's life might be in danger. Look at what the baliff has done to the prisonerhttp://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/images/405_12.jpg.shtml

I can't see any picture.

ReganX
December 7th, 2007, 12:58 PM
I just watched an X-Files episode about people on death row... and murder, severed heads, and maggots. :D

I hope I (Sam Carter) am actually needed for the Court Martial...

Have the defence called their witnesses yet?

ReganX
December 7th, 2007, 01:05 PM
The question was being in prison on remand. A prisoner is usually only remanded to custody if you can prove they are a danger to society or a flight risk. Most people that have been arrested are released on bond.

here, in some cases, the seriousness of the crime can impact whether or not a person accused of a crime will be held in prison pending trial. The safety of the accused is also occasionally a factor - in a high profile case, they can be convicted in the court of public opinion before they are actually tried, and they could be in danger.

There are different rules for remand prisoners in Ireland than for prisoners who've actually been convicted of a crime. Cloverhill (bit of a sunny name for a prison, I know) is supposed to be for remand prisoners.

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 01:06 PM
If it may please the court I have a proof that Sheppard's life might be in danger. Look at what the baliff has done to the prisoner

ReganX
December 7th, 2007, 01:09 PM
I am going out of character for a second to ask have we set a time for this mock trial

Not yet. Waiting for word from the defence who they need by way of witnesses, then the roles will need to be filled.

RealmOfX
December 7th, 2007, 02:15 PM
I think that prisoners who have not been convicted are not in real prisons with serious convicted prisoners. They are held elsewhere. It used to be jail, and probably still is in most places, where those awaiting trial and people convicted or minor infractions with short term sentences are kept. Jails are usually attached to police stations or court house complexes in smaller cities and towns. Other areas have separate facilities but the intention is the same: to keep real criminals away from minor criminals and those not yet convicted.

None of which applies here, since Sheppard would be held in the SGC or released on his own recognizance. He is an officer, has 20 years(?) in the Air Force and is unlikely to be a danger to the general population. He would, at least, have the freedom of the less secure areas of the SGC.

You are correct that none of the civilian stuff aplies to this. However Shep is military and regardless of the murder charge (or whatever is decided to be brought against him) he actually broke some SERIOUS security on a top secret base and so the options of his detention will be limited to :
1) The detention cells or brig
2) Confined to quarters under guard - he has no security pass and therefore needs an escort whenever leaving his quarters.
3) Confined to base under guard - he has no security pass and therefore needs an escort whenever leaving his quarters.

By breaking security (multiple times) he has shown himself to be untrustworthy (in the eyes of the top brass) and therefore option 1 or 2 is the most likely scenario - remember we are talking military justice here not civilian and it involves a top secret base and the death of a civilian so lots of politics will be involved. The base commander must be seen as doing the proper thing in regards to security so Shep will NOT be wandering around on his own recognisance.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 7th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Have the defence called their witnesses yet?
I don't think so, no.

How many more people do we need to begin? :)

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 03:20 PM
You are correct that none of the civilian stuff aplies to this. However Shep is military and regardless of the murder charge (or whatever is decided to be brought against him) he actually broke some SERIOUS security on a top secret base and so the options of his detention will be limited to : .

By breaking security (multiple times) he has shown himself to be untrustworthy (in the eyes of the top brass) and therefore option 1 or 2 is the most likely scenario - remember we are talking military justice here not civilian and it involves a top secret base and the death of a civilian so lots of politics will be involved. The base commander must be seen as doing the proper thing in regards to security so Shep will NOT be wandering around on his own recognisance.

EXCUSE ME?

‘whatever is decided to be brought against him’ -As you say he has been charged with nothing.

Yet you have convicted him when you say
‘he actually broke some SERIOUS security on a top secret base’
‘By breaking security (multiple times) he has shown himself to be untrustworthy (in the eyes of the top brass)’

When was he convicted?

Substantiate it, or don’t slander him.

‘The base commander must be seen as doing the proper thing in regards to security’
Why don’t you let the base commander handle security and stay out of it.

Btw, I’m Landry. ;)

:D :D :D :D :D

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 03:23 PM
There probably do need to be a definite set of charges, for the defense to prepare a case.

Did I miss them?

expendable_crewman
December 7th, 2007, 04:02 PM
EXCUSE ME?

‘whatever is decided to be brought against him’ -As you say he has been charged with nothing.

Yet you have convicted him when you say
‘he actually broke some SERIOUS security on a top secret base’
‘By breaking security (multiple times) he has shown himself to be untrustworthy (in the eyes of the top brass)’

When was he convicted?

Substantiate it, or don’t slander him.

‘The base commander must be seen as doing the proper thing in regards to security’
Why don’t you let the base commander handle security and stay out of it.

Btw, I’m Landry. ;)

:D :D :D :D :D

Go Landry.

RealmOfX
December 7th, 2007, 04:25 PM
EXCUSE ME?

‘whatever is decided to be brought against him’ -As you say he has been charged with nothing.

Yet you have convicted him when you say
‘he actually broke some SERIOUS security on a top secret base’
‘By breaking security (multiple times) he has shown himself to be untrustworthy (in the eyes of the top brass)’

When was he convicted?

Substantiate it, or don’t slander him.

‘The base commander must be seen as doing the proper thing in regards to security’
Why don’t you let the base commander handle security and stay out of it.

Btw, I’m Landry. ;)

:D :D :D :D :D

If you are Landry then you need to get into a military frame of mind. Your comments are indicating to me that you are forwarding a civilian point of view.

I am not slandering anyone but merely pointing out some military points of view. Take 'em or leave 'em but I thought this thread was holding a mock military trial - emphasis on the military.

I think some people need to back off on the emotion and get into the proper frame of mind.

Shepherd being military does not need to be convicted to be detained when evidence of security breaches on a top security base have been detected. It is not unusual with personnel being detained until the details are examined and decisions are made whether to a) lay formal charges or b) what charges to lay.

In order for the civilian to die at the hands of the Wraith (no pun intended) several very serious security breaches had to have happened. At least one was caught on camera (that we saw).

If this game is to succeed then the civilian mentality really needs to drop by the wayside. Also there will need to be some decision on what actually happened between Shep leaving Wallace and the scene in the lab with Wallace dead, which Jackie will have to establish.

Logically Wallace would be held in detention whilst on a top secret base. So how did he get to the lab and die? We didn't see it in the episode but the sequence of events will need to be established before the trial can proceed. According to Shep's words it is intimated that he removed the civilian from detention and let him into top secret laboratories (and no one is going to convince me that Wallace was authorised for this) where Wallace was attacked and killed. The logical assumptions are that Shepherd :
- illegally removed Wallace from custody
- took him to a secret lab which Wallace was unauthorised to see
- either ordered security personnel away from their posts or ordered them to stand aside while breaches to security and protocol occurred.

The Bailiff needs to establish if certain logical assumptions about what the sequence of events are actually fact for the purposes of this mock trial as critical points did not occur on screen for us to see.

I'm sorry if some people have a problem with me trying to instill a little realism into the proceedings. I'd be playing a part myself but I am unable to easily read at the moment and it takes me forever to read the posts and look up relevant information. If no one objects I would like to chip in every now and then with some logical and military points of view.

rarocks24
December 7th, 2007, 04:25 PM
I'm on board with the defense.

For a professional military officer to not get the thumbs up from General Landry before bringing an "enemy combatant" on base, one that poses a security risk, is absurd. The prosecution has presented no evidence to indicate that Gen. Hank Landry was not aware there was a Wraith on an Earth base, nor was the Wraith at any time told that he was on Earth.

Furthermore, there is no evidence besides word of mouth, evidence lacking substantiation, that Sheppard falsified reports, led a man to his death, and did nothing to stop the attack.

There have yet to be presented any charges against the Wraith, who for that matter of this courts, and as stated by TPTB, will be known as "Todd", for the murder of said victim, Henry Wallace. A man who knowingly conspired against the government, committed to espionage, committed assault on a federal officer, kidnapped and abducted two people, both foreign nationals, and knowingly put a person's life at risk.

The prosecution has presented no concrete evidence that Col. John Sheppard committed acts which may have dire consequences.

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 04:36 PM
If you are Landry then you need to get into a military frame of mind. Your comments are indicating to me that you are forwarding a civilian point of view.

I am not slandering anyone but merely pointing out some military points of view. Take 'em or leave 'em but I thought this thread was holding a mock military trial - emphasis on the military.

I think some people need to back off on the emotion and get into the proper frame of mind.

Shepherd being military does not need to be convicted to be detained when evidence of security breaches on a top security base have been detected. It is not unusual with personnel being detained until the details are examined and decisions are made whether to a) lay formal charges or b) what charges to lay.

In order for the civilian to die at the hands of the Wraith (no pun intended) several very serious security breaches had to have happened. At least one was caught on camera (that we saw).

If this game is to succeed then the civilian mentality really needs to drop by the wayside. Also there will need to be some decision on what actually happened between Shep leaving Wallace and the scene in the lab with Wallace dead, which Jackie will have to establish.

Logically Wallace would be held in detention whilst on a top secret base. So how did he get to the lab and die? We didn't see it in the episode but the sequence of events will need to be established before the trial can proceed. According to Shep's words it is intimated that he removed the civilian from detention and let him into top secret laboratories (and no one is going to convince me that Wallace was authorised for this) where Wallace was attacked and killed. The logical assumptions are that Shepherd :
- illegally removed Wallace from custody
- took him to a secret lab which Wallace was unauthorised to see
- either ordered security personnel away from their posts or ordered them to stand aside while breaches to security and protocol occurred.

The Bailiff needs to establish if certain logical assumptions about what the sequence of events are actually fact for the purposes of this mock trial as critical points did not occur on screen for us to see.

I'm sorry if some people have a problem with me trying to instill a little realism into the proceedings. I'd be playing a part myself but I am unable to easily read at the moment and it takes me forever to read the posts and look up relevant information. If no one objects I would like to chip in every now and then with some logical and military points of view.

As far as I’m concerned, you have a right to your opinion. But you are stating your opinion as irrefutable fact.

I see it in entirely a different way

Belittling me for not being able to see your version of the ‘military’ point of view, does not make you right.

Jackie
December 7th, 2007, 04:47 PM
(he's got it pretty easy compared to Todd the wraith)

You compared his condition to Todd’s. I’m just saying that that’s appropriate.

It was an off hand remark to remind you that we haven't feed the wraith lately.

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Can we feed the baliff to the Wraith?

Jackie
December 7th, 2007, 05:01 PM
If it may please the court I have a proof that Sheppard's life might be in danger. Look at what the baliff has done to the prisoner

The bailiff by is not allowed to be armed...nice try though.


EXCUSE ME?

‘whatever is decided to be brought against him’ -As you say he has been charged with nothing.

Yet you have convicted him when you say
‘he actually broke some SERIOUS security on a top secret base’
‘By breaking security (multiple times) he has shown himself to be untrustworthy (in the eyes of the top brass)’

When was he convicted?

Substantiate it, or don’t slander him.

‘The base commander must be seen as doing the proper thing in regards to security’
Why don’t you let the base commander handle security and stay out of it.

Btw, I’m Landry. ;)

:D :D :D :D :D

General Landry--your own MP's apprehended the suspect and filed charges of assisted suicide and letting a prisoner die at the hands of the enemy in your own base--wallace died while you were in charge! You--should be on trial yourself--but--thanks to the security camera we no evidence that you were even aware the wraith was here--much less wallace.

Now, General--were you aware that Colonel Sheppard had brought an enemy soldier to your base? Were you aware of his reasons to do so? Were you aware that the death of Harry Wallace while under your supervision does not look very good on your record and the question of competence as base general has brought into question?

You might want to re-think exactly what will tell the jury when you are put on the stand and are sworn to tell the truth, General.

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 05:02 PM
It was an off hand remark to remind you that we haven't feed the wraith lately.
Sorry :o

Good thing he doesn't have to eat as often as Sheppard.

Jackie
December 7th, 2007, 05:03 PM
Can we feed the baliff to the Wraith?

Can we feed Rodney McKay to todd--Todd wants to eat Rodney.

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 05:13 PM
Can we feed Rodney McKay to todd--Todd wants to eat Rodney.
Or you could just feed him Sheppard and save yourself a whole lot of trouble.

LoneStar1836
December 7th, 2007, 05:23 PM
Is General Landry being charged with anything? If Shep is, I would think he would be too. Expecially since I seriously believe that Sheppard did not act without approval from at least Landry since the SGC is his command.

I know this isn't his trial, but wouldn't that make some sort of difference in the trial as far as him being able to testify goes? It's been a long time since I've watched the tv show JAG and that's about the extent of my knowledge when it comes to military trial proceedings. :D

blue-skyz
December 7th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Now, General--were you aware that Colonel Sheppard had brought an enemy soldier to your base? Were you aware of his reasons to do so?
Let’s take this one issue at a time.

I (Landry) know everyone who comes through the stargate. It is impossible to sneak someone into the SGC without being noticed. Perhaps you will recall the large contingent of guards that were present when the Wraith came through. They were there specially because of the Wraith.

When Colonel Sheppard requested that the Wraith be allowed to come to the SGC, he also requested a special unit of guards to maintain security. Both requests were granted.

The Wraith was brought to the SGC to aid Doctor McKay in an effort the shut down the nanites that Mr. Wallace injected into his sister. His sister was going to die if this could not be accomplished. Also Doctor McKay thought that accomplishing this might be useful in shutting down the replicators in Pegasus that are destroying human worlds.

I thought it was worth the risk and could be handled with extra security.

btw, this is not incriminating.

RealmOfX
December 7th, 2007, 06:18 PM
As far as I’m concerned, you have a right to your opinion. But you are stating your opinion as irrefutable fact.

I see it in entirely a different way

Belittling me for not being able to see your version of the ‘military’ point of view, does not make you right.

I was belittling no one.

Security was breached on a top security base, that is a fact not my opinion. Shepherd was seen on camera to break security in one instance and admit to breaking security in another. How about you stop taking everything as an attack against either Shep or you personally and see that I'm trying to inject a bit more structure and realism into the game.

Atlantis1
December 7th, 2007, 06:18 PM
If you are Landry then you need to get into a military frame of mind. Your comments are indicating to me that you are forwarding a civilian point of view.

I am not slandering anyone but merely pointing out some military points of view. Take 'em or leave 'em but I thought this thread was holding a mock military trial - emphasis on the military.

I think some people need to back off on the emotion and get into the proper frame of mind.

Shepherd being military does not need to be convicted to be detained when evidence of security breaches on a top security base have been detected. It is not unusual with personnel being detained until the details are examined and decisions are made whether to a) lay formal charges or b) what charges to lay.

In order for the civilian to die at the hands of the Wraith (no pun intended) several very serious security breaches had to have happened. At least one was caught on camera (that we saw).

If this game is to succeed then the civilian mentality really needs to drop by the wayside. Also there will need to be some decision on what actually happened between Shep leaving Wallace and the scene in the lab with Wallace dead, which Jackie will have to establish.

Logically Wallace would be held in detention whilst on a top secret base. So how did he get to the lab and die? We didn't see it in the episode but the sequence of events will need to be established before the trial can proceed. According to Shep's words it is intimated that he removed the civilian from detention and let him into top secret laboratories (and no one is going to convince me that Wallace was authorised for this) where Wallace was attacked and killed. The logical assumptions are that Shepherd :
- illegally removed Wallace from custody
- took him to a secret lab which Wallace was unauthorised to see
- either ordered security personnel away from their posts or ordered them to stand aside while breaches to security and protocol occurred.

The Bailiff needs to establish if certain logical assumptions about what the sequence of events are actually fact for the purposes of this mock trial as critical points did not occur on screen for us to see.

I'm sorry if some people have a problem with me trying to instill a little realism into the proceedings. I'd be playing a part myself but I am unable to easily read at the moment and it takes me forever to read the posts and look up relevant information. If no one objects I would like to chip in every now and then with some logical and military points of view.

It also needs to be determined if Sheppard went through the right branchs of authority to get permission to do all this. This whole thing is impossible in reality but I say let this thread be playful because we all need some fun.

Atlantis1
December 7th, 2007, 06:22 PM
Carter is the head of Atlantis. Isn't she reponsible for Todd leaving Atlantis?

RealmOfX
December 7th, 2007, 06:41 PM
Carter is the head of Atlantis. Isn't she reponsible for Todd leaving Atlantis?

Good question.

We don't know where Carter was. If she was on base then she would have had to give permission for Todd to leave and she also would have had to get Landry's permission (or the designated officer in charge) for Todd to enter the SGC. If Carter wasn't on Atlantis then Shep or some other designated officer would have been in charge and the same conditions would apply to them.

Konman72
December 7th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Time for me to actually do my job eh?

The only witnesses I require are:

Sheppard

McKay

One of the guards from the room

Todd

Landry

Carter

O'Neill

As my first real action as defense attorney I propose that the following charges be removed...

Misconduct of an Officer and a Gentleman by personal contact with Mr Wallace before his death in which private pictures of a civilian family were shown and explained a dreaded situation.

This charge assumes that the "interrogation" of Wallace by my client was not approved by his superiors and that it was not monitored. No one stepped in to stop him thus we can rightfully conclude that he was allowed to do it. (I would say that he would be being charged with something but that would kind of defeat the whole purpose here)

Aiding and abetting criminal conduct of Rodney McKay who sent classified information via internet to a private residence of a civilian.
This again assumes that the action was not allowed by superiors. McKay obviously did not send the email from Atlantis directly to Mrs. Miller's home, it had to go through the gate, at which point the SGC computers would receive it and decide to pass it on to the civilian internet or send it along secured channels that had been preassigned and set up, thus negating the "private residence" portion of the charge.


I also take issue to the open questioning of witnesses prior to the start of the trial. The only people who should be questioning witnesses are the attorneys and it should be done privately.

And to answer some questions/statements that I have seen, I propose that Wallace was authorized to be in the lab at that time. My assumption (which I have to make sue to the scarce amount of information provided) is that he was there to assist the research being done on the nanite code. He had worked with them before and with Todd out of commission he was brought in to help fill the void. I base this on the fact that Sheppard is not being charged with anything for his being out of confinement and his presence in the lab.

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 07:06 PM
McKayI'm needed. You don't happen to be a real lawyer. Your statments sounded law like

Konman72
December 7th, 2007, 07:35 PM
I'm needed. You don't happen to be a real lawyer. Your statments sounded law like
Not a real lawyer, but I have always been interested in the law.

VSS
December 8th, 2007, 05:11 PM
Good question.

We don't know where Carter was. If she was on base then she would have had to give permission for Todd to leave and she also would have had to get Landry's permission (or the designated officer in charge) for Todd to enter the SGC. If Carter wasn't on Atlantis then Shep or some other designated officer would have been in charge and the same conditions would apply to them.

Carter was on leave visiting Jack.
That's why Sheppard didn't have to ask her about the Wraith. Makes it all neat and tidy, doesn't it.;)

expendable_crewman
December 8th, 2007, 06:07 PM
Let’s take this one issue at a time.

I (Landry) know everyone who comes through the stargate. It is impossible to sneak someone into the SGC without being noticed. Perhaps you will recall the large contingent of guards that were present when the Wraith came through. They were there specially because of the Wraith.

When Colonel Sheppard requested that the Wraith be allowed to come to the SGC, he also requested a special unit of guards to maintain security. Both requests were granted.

The Wraith was brought to the SGC to aid Doctor McKay in an effort the shut down the nanites that Mr. Wallace injected into his sister. His sister was going to die if this could not be accomplished. Also Doctor McKay thought that accomplishing this might be useful in shutting down the replicators in Pegasus that are destroying human worlds.

I thought it was worth the risk and could be handled with extra security.

btw, this is not incriminating.

Landry would have to approve the arrival of the Wraith through the Stargate. He answers to the president and he's overseen by an International oversight committee. If someone with clearance to know about Stargate decided not to like the idea the Wraith came to Atlantis, it wouldn't be Air Force JAG or any authority having to do with a court-martial. It would be O'Neill (homeworld security), the President of the United States, or the IOA.

In which case Landry would make his case and move on.

I think we should stay with Sheppard and not branch out to areas & aspects of the ep we worried about or didn't like. I know this is probably moot, since this is supposed to be a thread for laughs and all, but a court-martial is usually called by the base commander, who, in this case, is Landry. Which he would not do, even if we weren't playing in a setting that's an insulated top secret installation and it wasn't about a senior leader (Sheppard) with a pay grade two steps below a general.

Ranlier
December 8th, 2007, 09:55 PM
Misconduct of an Officer and a Gentleman by personal contact with Mr Wallace before his death in which private pictures of a civilian family were shown and explained a dreaded situation.



Who the hell proposed these charges? Because it wasn't me.

Also, have we begun this trial?

Konman72
December 8th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Who the hell proposed these charges? Because it wasn't me.
The thread starter who has now become the bailiff.


Also, have we begun this trial?
Still waiting for casting to finish for some side roles.

Ranlier
December 8th, 2007, 11:00 PM
I'm leading the prosecution, and I've outlined the charges we'll be filing.


Prosecution brings charges that Ltc. John Sheppard, USAF [hereafter referred to as "Sheppard"], exhibited willful negligence leading to the death of an American civilian on Unites States soil*.

Prosecution also charges that Ltc. Sheppard, again through negligence, allowed vital intelligence regarding Earth's primary military installation to be collected by a enemy combatant [hereafter referred to as "Todd"].

Prosecution does not bring charges of:
Treason (Giving American Military secrets to a Wraith to aid a canadian national)
Insubordination (Subverting the authority of General Hank M. Landry)
Violation of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (Screw you, slashers.)

*(I beleive the show implies that Henry Wallace is an American, despite Jeannie being kidnapped from Canada)

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Raliner, who are you witness list. Law dictates that the defenses be informed of the prosecutions witness list and vice versa.

Ranlier
December 8th, 2007, 11:23 PM
From Page 8:


I need Rodney McKay, Hank Landry, Richard Woolsey, and...... *drumroll please*

General Jack O'Neill.

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 11:32 PM
My apologies

Ranlier
December 8th, 2007, 11:38 PM
Its not your fault, this thread got seriously disorganized in a hurry. I just hope we can get it back on track.

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 11:40 PM
If it will please the court, I would like to know when the trial is set to begin. I have matters to tend to on Atlantis.

blue-skyz
December 9th, 2007, 07:47 AM
thanks to the security camera we no evidence that you were even aware the wraith was here--much less wallace.

I (Landry) never actually saw either the Wraith or Wallace. I had other things to attend to.

Wallace was brought to the SGC by the NID, because he was considered a security risk. He needed to be in a secure location until a decision could be made on where he should be taken.

I was made aware of Wallace’s presence shortly after he was admitted. We maintain a current list of all of the people on base and their reason for being there. People entering for other than their normal work shifts are always highlighted.

It is not unusual for the NID to bring detainees considered to have breached stargate security or other related programs to the SGC until their level of threat can be evaluated.

btw, still not incriminating. ;)

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
December 9th, 2007, 10:20 AM
The only witnesses I require are:

....

Carter

....
Yay! I'm required! I mean... I need to get into character here...

Thank you, Konman72, I'll be there.


Carter was on leave visiting Jack.
That's why Sheppard didn't have to ask her about the Wraith. Makes it all neat and tidy, doesn't it.;)
Actually, I wasn't... but I am planning a trip back to Earth on my next leave. :samanime20:

I think Sam was in Atlantis and did approve of Todd being brought to the SGC. And I'm sure she got proper clearance and all from Landry/O'Neill/the IOA/whoever, so I'd say Landry knew about Todd and Wallace, also.

Jackie
December 9th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Is General Landry being charged with anything? If Shep is, I would think he would be too. Expecially since I seriously believe that Sheppard did not act without approval from at least Landry since the SGC is his command.

I know this isn't his trial, but wouldn't that make some sort of difference in the trial as far as him being able to testify goes? It's been a long time since I've watched the tv show JAG and that's about the extent of my knowledge when it comes to military trial proceedings. :D

It's up to the prosecution to charge Landry with anything...the judge would have to agree to allow it and Landry would need a separate trail. Landry and Sheppard cannot be tried together in this case.


Let’s take this one issue at a time.

I (Landry) know everyone who comes through the stargate. It is impossible to sneak someone into the SGC without being noticed. Perhaps you will recall the large contingent of guards that were present when the Wraith came through. They were there specially because of the Wraith.

When Colonel Sheppard requested that the Wraith be allowed to come to the SGC, he also requested a special unit of guards to maintain security. Both requests were granted.

The Wraith was brought to the SGC to aid Doctor McKay in an effort the shut down the nanites that Mr. Wallace injected into his sister. His sister was going to die if this could not be accomplished. Also Doctor McKay thought that accomplishing this might be useful in shutting down the replicators in Pegasus that are destroying human worlds.

I thought it was worth the risk and could be handled with extra security.

btw, this is not incriminating.

Sorry, General--I over reacted. However, you are aware that the official report filed by sheppard does raise questions as to why Wallace would be given a tour of the science department when there was no scientific reason for him to be there. You would have to grant permission to Sheppard to give Wallace that tour.

Were aware that wallace had agreed to sacrifice his life before entering the room with the Wraith?


Who the hell proposed these charges? Because it wasn't me.

Also, have we begun this trial?

The lead prosecutor will put for the OFFICIAL charges once the trial is called to order by the lead Judge--we will be starting a different thread for the trial if we can.


The thread starter who has now become the bailiff.


Still waiting for casting to finish for some side roles.

there is no alternate bailiff yet--sorry, I was busy over the weekend. I will update the list of players tonight and ask the both sides to submit a list of witnesses.


I (Landry) never actually saw either the Wraith or Wallace. I had other things to attend to.

Wallace was brought to the SGC by the NID, because he was considered a security risk. He needed to be in a secure location until a decision could be made on where he should be taken.

I was made aware of Wallace’s presence shortly after he was admitted. We maintain a current list of all of the people on base and their reason for being there. People entering for other than their normal work shifts are always highlighted.

It is not unusual for the NID to bring detainees considered to have breached stargate security or other related programs to the SGC until their level of threat can be evaluated.

btw, still not incriminating. ;)


Where you made aware that Wallace intended to let the wraith feed on him? If allowed Sheppard to bring Wallace to the wraith to feed--then you might be charged later on.

RealmOfX
December 9th, 2007, 12:33 PM
I (Landry) never actually saw either the Wraith or Wallace. I had other things to attend to.

Wallace was brought to the SGC by the NID, because he was considered a security risk. He needed to be in a secure location until a decision could be made on where he should be taken.

I was made aware of Wallace’s presence shortly after he was admitted. We maintain a current list of all of the people on base and their reason for being there. People entering for other than their normal work shifts are always highlighted.

It is not unusual for the NID to bring detainees considered to have breached stargate security or other related programs to the SGC until their level of threat can be evaluated.

btw, still not incriminating. ;)


Ah - excuse me - just butting in with some real details.

NID are not authorised to bring unknown civilians onto military bases. Especially not top secret bases. Permission is needed to bring civilians onto the base and an authorised person has to organise the security passes.

NID regardless of their supposed mission are civilian and cannot give orders to the military, all military functions / orders have to be done by the relevant authorised military personnel. Landry or a designated officer would need to grant permission for both NID and civilians to enter the base.

Konman72
December 9th, 2007, 01:12 PM
I think there is a lot of assuming going on from the prosecution side (both the actual legal team and the supporters, including the bailiff).

Assumption 1: That Todd was not allowed on the base and that Wallace was not allowed on the base or in the lab.
These are obviously not true as the SGC is the most secure facility in America, if not the world. Landry would sign off on all of this. As far as Wallace in the lab, specifically, there were guards inside and outside of the lab. If he was not allowed then he would not have been able to get through the door.

Assumption B: That Sheppard has or will admit that he meant for Wallace to get fed upon. The only real evidence to support this is the final conversation between McKay and Sheppard and that has no witnesses. The report states that Todd overpowered them and fed on him before they could react, so that is the story that Sheppard will most likely stick to. (If we are being serious about this "trial" then I should probably discuss with the actor playing Sheppard to see what he/she wants me to argue)

blue-skyz
December 9th, 2007, 02:28 PM
Ah - excuse me - just butting in with some real details.

NID are not authorised to bring unknown civilians onto military bases. Especially not top secret bases. Permission is needed to bring civilians onto the base and an authorised person has to organise the security passes.

NID regardless of their supposed mission are civilian and cannot give orders to the military, all military functions / orders have to be done by the relevant authorised military personnel. Landry or a designated officer would need to grant permission for both NID and civilians to enter the base.
Civilians can be cleared, authorized, and badged for regular access to any secret or military facility.

The NID seems to function as a type of police or investigative force in the stargate/IOA arena. I see no reason why some NID officers would not have regular access as well as some office space in the SGC.

The NID would have to sign in and get approval for any visitor/detainee. There would be guidelines in place for this to occur with a minimum of difficulty.

Jackie
December 9th, 2007, 03:59 PM
I think there is a lot of assuming going on from the prosecution side (both the actual legal team and the supporters, including the bailiff).

Assumption 1: That Todd was not allowed on the base and that Wallace was not allowed on the base or in the lab.
These are obviously not true as the SGC is the most secure facility in America, if not the world. Landry would sign off on all of this. As far as Wallace in the lab, specifically, there were guards inside and outside of the lab. If he was not allowed then he would not have been able to get through the door.

Assumption B: That Sheppard has or will admit that he meant for Wallace to get fed upon. The only real evidence to support this is the final conversation between McKay and Sheppard and that has no witnesses. The report states that Todd overpowered them and fed on him before they could react, so that is the story that Sheppard will most likely stick to. (If we are being serious about this "trial" then I should probably discuss with the actor playing Sheppard to see what he/she wants me to argue)


The tape ( the show) is our evidence...if there was no tape or show--then we wouldn't even be here on this thread.

The very last scene where McKay and Shep are talking privately was indeed taped by Atlantis security cameras and turned over as evidence to prosecutor who has shared all evidence with the defense and the judge.

To not allow that evidence in the trail you would have to present a very good reason why to the judge and ask that it should be thrown out. It's a security tape and legitimate.

The trial has not started yet and right now we are discussing what is usable and what is not.

Anything on the tape or we all saw on the show is evidence. It is what the case is based on and it is up to you to discount the evidence or any eyewitnesses that the judge agrees to last come forth...including the wraith Todd.

The assumptions we make have to be in realm of the set cannon of the show. We know there is an NID but as to it's role--it's kind of hazy--I was under the impression it was spy organization like the CIA.

Protocols for allowing Todd on the base and for keeping Wallace in the SGC holding cells were obviously followed in order for Landry to let them them in the base.

The questions are:

Did Landry know about the assisted suicide or was he kept out of the loop?
Was there an assisted suicide?
Was there a murder of a prisoner?
Was there falsification on the official report filed by sheppard?
Was there Justification if there was?
Was Sheppard acting with in his sworn duty?

You see, someone like Wallace would have lawyers and high connections and his death, while in US custody and in a classified base that is restricted to the public would raise eyebrows.

It is not far fetched to think that an inquest would be called and charges filed--especially if the security tapes were turned over to the IOA. Someone like Wallace has money, wealth and power. He would have had friends and family that would be calling for the President to investigate the matter.

In essence this is a high profile case that would rival cases like OJ Simpson and the assignation of President Kennedy.

You are the lead defense attorney and have been given the exact same evidence the prosecution has. Your job is to inflict doubt on the prosecution--enough to have the jury find him innocent.

Keep in mind that right now--the jury is in your favor. It's very possible that even if Shep is proven guilty that the jury will find him innocent because the jury is the board members and there is no pooling process where we just need to find jurors that would be able to remain impartial and vote based on the evidence.

The jury IMO will find shep innocent just because the jury likes him and will not convict their favorite hero of a crime. You really have a huge advantage over the prosecution!

Once the trial starts if you find an assumption made by the prosecution you can object and the judge would decide.

As bailiff my job is to make general announcements and usher the defendant to and from the trial.

As the wraith my job will be to defend my need to survive.