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Myles
December 1st, 2007, 08:14 AM
I personally thought Todd faked the urgent necessity to feed or he couldn't finish the code. It took him all of 2 minutes after he fed to get it done, even on his deathbed I'm sure he could type or tell Mckay what to do. And he completely killed the guy despite it being shown on multiple occasions Wraith don't have to do that to survive. I'm thinking he was real hungry, starving even, but not deathly so. He saw an opportunity to get a much desired meal and took full advantage of it.

SaberBlade
December 1st, 2007, 08:21 AM
It's possible that he did take the opportunity to get fed, the problem is that sooner or later they would have to feed him and since he hadn't feed in a few weeks, it's very likely that he was hungry.

I don't think being hungry was a matter of not being able to work, but being able to focus. Once he had fed, he was able to quickly to finish the program because he knew what he was doing.

He wouldn't have to fake it anyway. He wants that code finished as much anyone, and he could have just denied helping until he was fed so there wouldn't have been a reason to fake it when he could have just been the evil Wraith he's supposed to be and blackmailed McKay for a meal. It's not like they could have killed him, because he still has the final bits of data to make the deactivation code work.

P2J
December 1st, 2007, 09:03 AM
he might have been close to being done before he collapsed. so after feeding he was able to finish the program

garhkal
December 1st, 2007, 01:29 PM
Like Mccy was with that program in Tabula Rasa..

L├║mendil
December 1st, 2007, 03:13 PM
It doesn't really matter if he faked it or not, they have to feed him at some point anyway. Pretty convenient that they found a volunteer though.

Here's an idea: maybe they could just bring Todd to Texas every time he's hungry. It would be the perfect form of capital punishment. ;)

garhkal
December 1st, 2007, 03:39 PM
It doesn't really matter if he faked it or not, they have to feed him at some point anyway. Pretty convenient that they found a volunteer though.

Here's an idea: maybe they could just bring Todd to Texas every time he's hungry. It would be the perfect form of capital punishment. ;)

LOL. That it would. But then you might get some saying it is inhumane to use wraith to carry out the death sentence..

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2007, 05:57 PM
LOL. That it would. But then you might get some saying it is inhumane to use wraith to carry out the death sentence..

Hell our President would ok it in a minute.;) *runs* I doubt he faked it he hadn't been fed in weeks they can last longer without food than us but eventually it takes it's toll.

LiLTiff17
December 1st, 2007, 06:01 PM
So we named him Todd? Why Todd? I thought users were going with Gabriel. Anyway I hope he eventually tells the team his name and I agree that he wasn't faking his hunger.

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2007, 06:04 PM
So we named him Todd? Why Todd? I thought users were going with Gabriel. Anyway I hope he eventually tells the team his name and I agree that he wasn't faking his hunger.

If I remember correctly JM said that was his name that Shep gave him but the scene got cut.

Ripple in Space
December 1st, 2007, 06:08 PM
Hell our President would ok it in a minute.;) *runs*

I don't think Hayes is such a bad guy. He did take down Kinsey...

jelgate
December 1st, 2007, 06:11 PM
I don't think Hayes is such a bad guy. He did take down Kinsey...
I think hes talking about the US president in real life

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2007, 06:12 PM
I was mabey in retrospect a bad idea.

Myles
December 1st, 2007, 06:15 PM
Interesting responses. Thanks for the input.

I agree with those who said that they would have to feed him sometime and that this was convenient. But while I'm sure he was extremely hungry, I don't think it would stop him from finishing in an hour what took him 2 minutes after he fed.

I also don't think blackmailing for food when you're a prisoner is his best interest when you can get the same result without causing direct conflict.

However, in the end I don't think this was even thought of, but added to provide a moral dilemma.

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2007, 06:18 PM
Interesting responses. Thanks for the input.

I agree with those who said that they would have to feed him sometime and that this was convenient. But while I'm sure he was extremely hungry, I don't think it would stop him from finishing in an hour what took him 2 minutes after he fed.

I also don't think blackmailing for food when you're a prisoner is his best interest when you can get the same result without causing direct conflict.

However, in the end I don't think this was even thought of, but added to provide a moral dilemma.

He was nearly finished and it wasn't that he couldn't finish he couldn't concentrate. So thats's why he didn't need much time.

Ripple in Space
December 1st, 2007, 06:56 PM
I think hes talking about the US president in real life

Landry? That was AU.

prion
December 1st, 2007, 07:00 PM
Interesting responses. Thanks for the input.

I agree with those who said that they would have to feed him sometime and that this was convenient. But while I'm sure he was extremely hungry, I don't think it would stop him from finishing in an hour what took him 2 minutes after he fed.

I also don't think blackmailing for food when you're a prisoner is his best interest when you can get the same result without causing direct conflict.

However, in the end I don't think this was even thought of, but added to provide a moral dilemma.

The thing is that we base starvation reactions based on human reactions; we don't know precisely what true starvation does to a wraith, but in humans, i fyou're starving, no, you're not at 100% of your game mentally.

Now, I'm assuming they brought the wraith back to Atlantis, so what was everyon'es reactions upon seeing the wraith looking better when he came back then when he went....

LoneStar1836
December 2nd, 2007, 04:59 PM
I personally thought Todd faked the urgent necessity to feed or he couldn't finish the code. It took him all of 2 minutes after he fed to get it done, even on his deathbed I'm sure he could type or tell Mckay what to do. And he completely killed the guy despite it being shown on multiple occasions Wraith don't have to do that to survive. I'm thinking he was real hungry, starving even, but not deathly so. He saw an opportunity to get a much desired meal and took full advantage of it.Rather convenient if you ask me.

I wouldn't put it past the Wraith to fake it in order to create a situation where it was imperative that he be fed knowing that the humans still needed him alive rather than eeking it out as long as possible to the point of unbearable suffering.

Do I think he faked it in this episode? Not really. I think it was contrived writing in order to force the controversial ending the writers wanted.




It doesn't really matter if he faked it or not, they have to feed him at some point anyway. Pretty convenient that they found a volunteer though.

Here's an idea: maybe they could just bring Todd to Texas every time he's hungry. It would be the perfect form of capital punishment. ;)For the really reprehensible prisoners on death row, it would be, but considering that the current system of lethal injection is being contested as inhumane (something to do with one of the drugs being administered to put the person to sleep first being ineffective, iirc) in the US Supreme Court, it would never happen in a million years.


Hell our President would ok it in a minute.;) *runs* Umm, last time I looked the President has no say in such matters. ;)

Jackie
December 2nd, 2007, 08:19 PM
It doesn't really matter if he faked it or not, they have to feed him at some point anyway. Pretty convenient that they found a volunteer though.

Here's an idea: maybe they could just bring Todd to Texas every time he's hungry. It would be the perfect form of capital punishment. ;)

Providing the investigations weren't botched and the convicted man was guilty. In the past few years an number of people have proven innocent with DNA advances.

Imagine having your pregnant wife raped and murdered and the police come looking for you because you were the last person to report seeing her alive.

They assume the seaman is yours and collect samples--never testing it though. You get convicted--unfortunately you had a fight with her--an you are sentenced to death. That is converted to life in prison.

It turns out your wife was three months pregnant when she died--it's al over the papers and the other inmates figure you for a rapist, murderer and child killer. (You do not want to be a child killer or a cannibal in jail) The other inmates try to kill you in a shower.

You are moved to isolation for your own protection and then 17 years later another inmate in another state confesses to the crime and finally the seaman DNA connects the other man--who is a serial killer BTW.

You are released with an "I'm sorry" from the judge. A lawyer represents you in settling with the state on compensation. They award you 600,000 dollars based on how many days you were in prison and they your stinking lawyer bills you over 200,000 dollars for his "services"

That really happened to some poor guy.

Mitchell82
December 5th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Landry? That was AU.

No Bush.

dasNdanger
January 12th, 2008, 08:16 PM
I personally thought Todd faked the urgent necessity to feed or he couldn't finish the code. It took him all of 2 minutes after he fed to get it done, even on his deathbed I'm sure he could type or tell Mckay what to do. And he completely killed the guy despite it being shown on multiple occasions Wraith don't have to do that to survive. I'm thinking he was real hungry, starving even, but not deathly so. He saw an opportunity to get a much desired meal and took full advantage of it.

I've read the thread, I've seen the episode...and...

And yes, I think - to an extent - he faked it. Just here me out.

Todd is not stupid. Go back to Common Ground - he know that he had to be stronger, and Sheppard weaker - before trying to escape. He knew he needed another feeding to have the upper hand.

Think about his situation in this episode (Miller's Crossing). He had NO idea what the humans would do with him after he finished the code. He would no longer be needed. They certainly wouldn't feed him then. He knew that - if he finished the code - he'd be as good as dead. I do believe he was starving, but not to the point of death, or even the inability to focus. But he knew that SOON he would be, and his ONLY bargaining chip for a free meal was to delay finishing the code. One meal - one COMPLETE meal - would buy him time...perhaps enough time to get out from under human control. Then he could feed at will, whenever he wanted.

So, yeah - it makes MORE sense if he 'faked' it, played weak in order to get a much needed meal before he finished the code, so that it would sustain him afterwards, when he'd have no leverage with which to beg for a meal.

das

naamiaiset
February 17th, 2008, 10:33 AM
I know it's an old topic, but I just signed up. :D

it's plausible that todd faked his "immobilizing" hunger in order to gain a meal to sustain him that he otherwise wouldn't have had, but I don't think he did. I agree with what mitchell82 said... because, when todd was going over data and turned away from the computer screen, he shook his head as if he was trying to remain awake or regain focus/concentration. also, when he was brought through the gate, he moved a little sluggish (or is that because his feet are chained? I can't tell). his voice is also somewhat more raspy when he's hungry as you can hear the difference in common ground... his voice was stronger each time he gained more strength. it was the same thing in miller's crossing. I guess only SGA writers know for sure. ;)

dasNdanger
February 17th, 2008, 11:09 AM
I know it's an old topic, but I just signed up. :D

it's plausible that todd faked his "immobilizing" hunger in order to gain a meal to sustain him that he otherwise wouldn't have had, but I don't think he did. I agree with what mitchell82 said... because, when todd was going over data and turned away from the computer screen, he shook his head as if he was trying to remain awake or regain focus/concentration. also, when he was brought through the gate, he moved a little sluggish (or is that because his feet are chained? I can't tell). his voice is also somewhat more raspy when he's hungry as you can hear the difference in common ground... his voice was stronger each time he gained more strength. it was the same thing in miller's crossing. I guess only SGA writers know for sure. ;)

Welcome to the forums!!

I've only seen Miller's Crossing once, and so I can't remember all the details, or his signs of weakness. So, I'll go by what you say. Obviously he was having trouble concentrating. I know when I'm hungry I can't focus, and get really grumpy, too. Still, it wouldn't surprise me if he faked a little. NOT that he wasn't starving, etc...no, I believe he was...but it's like how Rodney fakes stuff. Says he can't do something, when really he CAN do it, but he's just whining about it to get what he wants (more time, praise, etc). So, yes - like you say - Todd was weak and hungry...but I wouldn't put it past him to pull a 'Rodney'. It would only make sense for him to do so. Like I said in my other comment, he had NO idea if the humans would let him go after he completed his work. As far as he knew, he'd be locked in the cell and allowed to starve to death. His inability to complete his work due to starvation was his only leverage. If the humans weren't going to figure out a way to feed the guy BEFORE the code was complete, they certainly would NOT feed him afterwards.

So, he may have been able to complete his work on an empty 'stomach', but I think he wisely 'pretended' (to an extent) that he couldn't, just to secure a meal. Once the coding was done, there would be no reason to feed the guy, not even as a reward. So, to ensure his own survival, it just makes sense that he would have 'bargained' for a meal before finishing his task.

Steve did something similar - 'and yet, it is the only thing that stands between you and the information you seek'. But Steve played it too strong, too arrogantly - he didn't show his weakness. Had Steve fallen to the floor in weakness, unable to go on because of starvation, don't you think the humans would have tried to find SOME way to help him? Shep was ready to help him when he realized Steve was sick, so I think he would have even been moved by compassion to try to help Steve if he was starving. But Steve was too proud to show his weakness. Todd is different. He knows that Sheppard has already seen him weak, and starving...he knows Sheppard has some understanding of what it is like. So why not play on that to gain a meal BEFORE your work is done? Actually, it would have been the smartest thing he could do, especially with no guarantee that he'd be fed or released after his work was done.

So, not saying that Todd was devious - no, not at all. Just wise. He was weak, and knew that he needed to feed. No guarantee that would happen after his work was done, so better to secure a meal before his work was done, while he still had something to bargain with.

That's how I see it, though - like you say - only the writers (and actors, I suppose) know for sure.

das

GoSpikey
February 17th, 2008, 11:37 AM
Well, the computer work probably took a lot of concentration, brain work from Todd... He probably couldn't have gone on much longer. He wouldn't have worked till he literally dropped dead, either. He might have realised that his chances of getting fed on Earth were bigger than they were on Atlantis, limited staff and all of that. He knows they won't present a staff member to him.

Plus he would need the energy in the upcoming weeks when working on the next Replicator problem (BAMSR).

Laura Dove
July 8th, 2008, 12:55 PM
Resurrecting an old thread... :) I spent too many Fridays desperately trying to find a bug in my programs, only to correct it within 1 hour on the next Monday, to not believe that Todd sincerely needs to feed before finishing the coding. Sometimes, you just can't think straight and you lose a LOT of time on obvious points.

Everything indicates that he is starving: He stumbles when entering the SGC, his skin looks oily or sweaty, his eyes are unusually red... But not only is he starving, he is unrestrained and surrounded by food (humans) -- yet he may not feed. It must be really painful for him, seeing what he craves at hand reach (literally!), yet being denied it. I can pretty well imagine how hard it must be.

Maybe Todd faked falling on the ground, but I'm not even sure: It may have been some sort of subconscious "shut down" of his body to avoid feeding on McKay. IMO his muscles fail him not because he is too weak to stand but because it's the only way to escape the urge to grab McKay and start feeding.

Dr. Selene Ankarres
October 27th, 2009, 08:57 AM
you know what todd is like. he will do things what are in his best interest first, and disguise his own desires or intentions with that of others around him. but of his wraithy charm.

but hell, you can't stay mad at that face :P

WraithQueenH
October 27th, 2009, 05:52 PM
Did he fake all of it? No, I don't think so. I think he needed to feed and was suffering from hunger. Remember we don't know the full suffering he experienced while a prisoner of the Genii. Though I'm sure we had to treat him better than them, Todd knows how hard it would be for John to give him a human to eat; and Todd cannot be sure how long he will be with us, so he needs to make sure he's able to function so he can fix the nanites' programming and stop them from killing his people. I think Todd exaggerated his need to feed to assure his continued health and so he can finish his job of saving the wraith. He had something Earthlings wanted and he used it to assure his survival.

Yes, the nanite coding was done quite fast after feeding BUT I think the fact he doesn't play around to make sure they think his passing out was all real is important. What I think most of us would do in his situation (and what I would do) is NOT give the completed work to your captors right away.. they might realize what you did in faking it and kill you for it. Judging by Todd's actions at all other times, we know he doesn't trust John and friends to not kill him especially if he's forced John to find an earthling he could eat. He didn't play around (as he should have) and instead choose to save Rodney's sister. I assume Rodney's little talk with him did strike a cord other then "do it because you can". Rodney and Todd had an odd relationship and from their interactions I honestly think Todd thinks of Rodney as a good cow. lol. Not a friend certainly, but I think Todd saw the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone: Save Rodney's sister and get some food for himself.

AresLover452
October 27th, 2009, 09:14 PM
you know what todd is like. he will do things what are in his best interest first, and disguise his own desires or intentions with that of others around him. but of his wraithy charm.

but hell, you can't stay mad at that face :P



His face no.... other wraiths, I'm all for staying mad at them!!

spinny magee
October 28th, 2009, 01:05 AM
I'm surprised Todd didn't like most people...get frustrated with the computer and throw it across the room from his hunger...I would...but it would cost me money ;)

AresLover452
October 28th, 2009, 01:09 AM
Computers are our friends... we need to treat the nicely.

spinny magee
October 28th, 2009, 01:11 AM
Computers are our friends... we need to treat the nicely.


Yes we should indeed....until they send an electrical surge through the mouse.....the cylons all over again.

AresLover452
October 28th, 2009, 01:13 AM
yeha, though they are far far away..... until we piss them off again.

spinny magee
October 28th, 2009, 01:25 AM
Lol

AresLover452
October 28th, 2009, 01:26 AM
they were dormant for 40 years, granted they were planning the death of humanity, but they were doing it quietly. Then we pissed them off and we paid a heavy price. So being nice to technology, even toasters are a good thing right now...lol!!

spinny magee
October 28th, 2009, 02:00 AM
*peeks around corner of room to make sure toaster isn't doing anything creepy* Ok thats a relief it still isn't a nuclear bomb. Hopefully the fridges aren't the next to rebell.

AresLover452
October 28th, 2009, 11:34 AM
That would suck, cause that is where we store food.

*Goes and looks at Fridge*

Nope still dormant and keeping food fresh, things are good.

WraithQueenH
October 28th, 2009, 06:44 PM
Hmm.. It's all about control. My computer knows better than to act up because I will stop this hive right now if it even thinks about getting out of line. :)

AresLover452
October 28th, 2009, 07:49 PM
Good thing you have a system. I only run my puter at night and it stays off about 12 hours at a time... lol!!

WraithQueenH
October 29th, 2009, 04:59 PM
What can I say, it's the order of the hive.

AresLover452
October 29th, 2009, 06:17 PM
Gotta have order or things get very confused. lol!!

Thorthewraith
January 21st, 2011, 06:05 AM
well I don't really think he faked it. But if he did, It's better that than jumping right at the first one and feeding on him. This whay he at least gave the team some time to think over a solution. Besides, they would have never trusted him again if he just followed his instinct by attacking someone. And he might have needed the team later on.