'Miller's Crossing' (409) General Discussion

[the fifth man]

I guess I just don't understand all the complaining about the bad guy being a 'wuss'. Does every bad guy have to be 100% evil, complete with maniacal laughter and a Mr. Burns-esque drumming of the fingers? Personally, I think a 'grey' baddie makes the show more interesting, and allows our characters to show some trepidation.

Would the Mckay's really have helped him as much as they did if he were evil, rather than being motivated by saving his daughter?

You make a good point (of course by then, he'd injected Rodney's sister too). I didn't mind him not being 100% evil one bit. That gets old after a while anyways.

Overall, I was very pleased with this episode. It had some great moments from Rodney, Ronon, and Sheppard (who had to make a very tough decision).

I too can't wait for next week's episode. The

Spoiler:

"return" of Dr. Weir.

[Sweetsong]

Even though I appreciated the change of pace, the setting being Earth and the SGC instead of Atlantis and Pegasus, I found myself missing those panoramic breathtaking views of Atlantis. We got one at the very end, and of course I just missed a general Pegasus mission.

I think I found myself wishing for more interaction with the team being on earth than we got. Mckay kidnapped, while Ronan and Sheppard sitting around in an office or cafeteria not doing much.

Btw, who named the wraith Todd?

[suse]

[B][CENTER]

Quotes

Ronon: When you find someone to point a gun at, let me know.


Jeanie:Your no John Sheppard

Suse: Thank GOD!

Me lurves me some Ronon Dex.

suse

[wheresmyfroggy]

Btw, who named the wraith Todd?

I'm going to take a wild stab and say.... the writers?

[scififreak23]

Even though I appreciated the change of pace, the setting being Earth and the SGC instead of Atlantis and Pegasus, I found myself missing those panoramic breathtaking views of Atlantis. We got one at the very end, and of course I just missed a general Pegasus mission.

I think I found myself wishing for more interaction with the team being on earth than we got. Mckay kidnapped, while Ronan and Sheppard sitting around in an office or cafeteria not doing much.

Btw, who named the wraith Todd?

sheppard probably.He named all the other wraiths.

[Sue_Jackson]

Okay.....this was soooooo Desparate Measures (S5/SG-1) with a different twist. But....I liked the episode anyway. It was nice seeing Kate again as Jeanie. I just love the chemistry between her and David. They are just so funny together.

It was also great seeing Agent Barret. He is a great character. When he and Rodney went to that door, and Rodney attempted to kick the door down (looking like an ass of course). I bursted out laughing.

Ronon on Earth! How cool was that? It was just so cool seeing him on Earth....IN civilian clothes. The scene with him and Walter was just the funniest thing. I was like, "Walter!" That was awesome.

John Sheppard was wonderful. I loved the scene with him and Rodney where Rodney was asking John to permit him to sacrifice himself for Jeanie. I love how John was just so calm in telling him why he couldn't let him do that. That was a great moment. Kudos to both David and Joe on that scene.

Then, of course John persuading Wallace to sacrifice himself for Rodney's sister was just intense. My jaw dropped at that scene. Then, when seeing the black body bag, I was dumbfounded. I was like...wow John crossed the line....again. But....I guess it was the better of the two evils in order to save Jeanie.

I do have a problem with this episode....and it's a big problem. I was fine with the episode until........

WRAITH.....on.....EARTH????? Are they insane??? This is like a chicken farmer having a fox help raise his chickens! It just does not make sense! What the frak are they gonna do with him now??? They can't just let him go. Cause what's to say he's not gonna brag to his Wraith buddies that he's found Earth? Are they gonna kill him? I think they gonna hafta. This does not sit well with me at all.


I applaud the brilliant acting of Joe, David, Jason, and Kate on this episode. They did an awesome job on this episode.

[Jonas]

anyone else think it was odd that McKay didn't enlist Carter's help? Anywhoo I thought it was an okay episode, but kinda of dull.

[the fifth man]

Okay.....this was soooooo Desparate Measures (S5/SG-1) with a different twist. But....I liked the episode anyway. It was nice seeing Kate again as Jeanie. I just love the chemistry between her and David. They are just so funny together.

It was also great seeing Agent Barret. He is a great character. When he and Rodney went to that door, and Rodney attempted to kick the door down (looking like an ass of course). I bursted out laughing.

Ronon on Earth! How cool was that? It was just so cool seeing him on Earth....IN civilian clothes. The scene with him and Walter was just the funniest thing. I was like, "Walter!" That was awesome.

I do have a problem with this episode....and it's a big problem. I was fine with the episode until........

WRAITH.....on.....EARTH????? Are they insane??? This is like a chicken farmer having a fox help raise his chickens! It just does make sense! What the frak are they gonna do with him now??? Cause what's to say he's not gonna brag to his Wraith buddies that he's found Earth? Are they gonna kill him? I think they gonna hafta. This does not sit well with me at all.

It was indeed nice to see Agent Barret again. I've always liked his character. A very stand-up NID guy.

As for the Wraith on Earth, it had to happen sometime. And it's not like he'd know how to get to Earth. After all, he just stepped through a Stargate. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[prion]

I don't like to bash this show, because it seems to have enough detractors as it is, but I definitely did not like the rest of the episode after the point where Sheppard talked with the guy about all the problems he had caused. Sure, he was a potential murderer, but let him be tried and sentenced after he commited the crime. At that instant, all he could be charged with is attempted murder, something I do not think gets you the death penalty even in the States. There should have been a better way. .

Wallace was facing two counts of kidnapping, and thosse were probably the less serious charges. For what he did digging up classified security stuff from the US could possibly have gotten him executed. Not sure if it's treason, but the gov't isn't gonna slap him on the wrist. He'd vanish into a dark hole and never be seen again.

The best bad guy is the person who believes he or she is doing the right thing. Like I said in my review the only reason is was acting that way was to save his daught. Remember good and evil isn't black and white. There is a huge area of gray.

Yup.

Btw, who named the wraith Todd?

Alas, Mallozzi dropped this name as a SPOILER in his blog and everybody's been spreading it far and wide, despite the fact that the name has yet to be given on the episode. So by the time Sheppard does decide to call the wraith 'todd,' it will be 'eh, we all knew that.'

[garhkal]

yay... finally got to watch an atlantis ep on the first running, rather than later on in the night..

Definitely my favorite of the season. So good. My heart skipped a beat seeing a Wraith in the SGC. And the preview for next week... delicious.

That it was... though i wonder if he knew he

Spoiler:

was on earth.

Something even harder to swallow was seeing Shepard talk the guy into sacrifcing himself to the wraith so it could continue it's work to save Jeannie, I suppose it was the easy way out for the writers to get the wraith a home cooked meal...

That is true, but it did show the lengths to which shepard would go to to save rodney..

This was one of the best episodes of the season! The acting was fantastic by everyone in it. Man i gotta tell you, that scene where sheppard talked that guy into killing himself was very unnerving. Joe did a fantastic job with that scene! I felt bad for henry wallace.He was just trying to save his daughter's life. Ronan was great in this episode, he looked so funny in earth clothes! Loved the fact that mckay was willing to be fed on to save his sister. The rodney/todd scenes were wonderful.I loved how rodney talked him into helping him save his sister. The end scene with mckay and sheppard was great also.The two have come along way since the first episode.

agreed. Of all the Rodney and Shep building eps this has to be at the top of the list for the best.. And i always knew Rodney had a sacrifical side to him, but willing to give his life to save his sister.. man that was awesome. That shows that behind all his ranting and raving, there is a caring person.

I have to agree with the fact that Walter has degraded to a character that serves more as comic relief (like Dr. Lee in recent years) which is very unfortunate. I think that scene with Ronon and Walter was definitely the nadir of the whole episode.

Again, agreed. Slowly he has turned from a likable second string character into someone who almost makes me want to turn the channel. His performance in tonights ep made me go 'WTF over".. Why could they not have had anyone else from the SGC show up like landry, the doctor or heck even lee. I would not have even minded if they had siler... At least he is not comic relief.

I can't believe that he would resort to bringing a Wraith into the SGC, allthough it was cool to see a Wraith in the SGC

I could, though i did wonder why they did not stun him and bring him in that way so he did not know where he was..

I guess I just don't understand all the complaining about the bad guy being a 'wuss'. Does every bad guy have to be 100% evil, complete with maniacal laughter and a Mr. Burns-esque drumming of the fingers? Personally, I think a 'grey' baddie makes the show more interesting, and allows our characters to show some trepidation

Same here. It reminded me of that ep where sam got kidnapped so that one rich guy could get her to help on the tracer for Naquida for the symbiots..

And it was nice when he inadvertently compared the loss of his sister to the loss Todd might have felt when his hive ship was lost.

I almost thought i saw 'todd' show a bit of sadness at that comment. Though i think Rodney did it willfully, not accidently.

[Ruffles]

Wow. That was one of the best eps I've seen. Wonderful character ep with some truly funny bits as well as stunning dramatic moments.

Good stuff:
* the opening scene with the scientists. I love Zelenka more each time. "I am losing the will to live" and "Whatever you have to tell yourself" as he closes his laptop and practically runs from the room (followed closely by all the others).
* the little hints that Rodney and Jeannie keep in touch
* the cute family time with the cookie and the "He's stuck again" email was a great setup for the frightening kidnap scene
* McKay's attempt to kick down the (unlocked) door - he is so adorkable
* Rodney's genuine reaction at seeing his sister "Thank God you're alive" and a hug. He's come so far. In fact, every bit with his sister was perfect - their sibling rivalry complete with competitiveness and insults, his immediate thought of her safety when the girl dies (the first time), his willingness to sacrifice himself for her (more on that later), telling her he loves her and buying the car (lovely Prius promo there)
* Ronon on Earth - wearing the suit "I'd stand out no matter what I'm wearing", going to find food "Let me know when there's something to shoot" and his reaction to Walter and then Sheppard in the mess hall
* Sheppard playing with Madison, slogging through corporate documents, wearing that suit (oops, wrong thread), but most of all talking Wallace into sacrificing himself. I half expected John to offer himself to the Wraith (I wonder if he would have accepted....)
* I LOVE that Rodney had continued to work on the programming for Elizabeth's nanites even after she was gone. He's a good man underneath all that bluster.
* a Wraith on Earth!
* Jeannie questioning Rodney about Katie. As a girl with a brother, I totally understand that. And her reasoning: a nice girl that would put up with all his little flaws. "Let's face it, you're no John Sheppard" Bwahahaha!
* Rodney asking John at the end if they are about even in looks. "Who's been lying to you?" *wipes tears*
* having the Wraith faint from hunger. That answers a few questions.
* Wallace's sacrifice - he'd lost everything: his wife, his daughter, his freedom. But still, it would be hard to willingly let a Wraith feed.
* the nanites "erasing" the daughter's mind in their healing process. Really drove home the idea of them being machines simply following their programming
* Rodney trying to break into the lab. While unsaid, he had to be going in to offer himself to the Wraith.

Questions/Quibbles:
* Did they blindfold the Wraith before dialing the gate from Midway to Earth? Did they make him turn his back?
* Did they sedate Wallace or was he awake for the feeding?
* Will anyone tell Jeannie about the Wraith and what it took to save her?
* I guess there wasn't time in this ep to have Teyla reveal her pregnancy, but I would have liked a mention about where she was when the rest of the team got to the SGC.

The highlight for me has to be the scene with Rodney volunteering to die for his sister and John refusing to let him. Brilliantly done by JF and DH. That might be my favorite SGA scene EVER. Previous scenes have reflected moments of friendship between the two (Tao, Doppleganger, etc), but this scene shows the strength of that friendship. John can't lose another friend, and Rodney can't lose his sister. In a way, John sacrifices a bit of himself (reflected in his reaction back on Atlantis when Rodney questions him about Wallace) by convincing another man to give his life.

This ep really shows the core of who Rodney is: he has seen a Wraith feed, knows exactly what will happen, and is still willing to do it. I am fascinated that he goes to talk to Sheppard about it instead of just letting the Wraith feed. Is it to ensure the Wraith won't be killed after Rodney dies, allowing him to complete the programming? Is it to say goodbye to John?

All in all - one great episode.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

I don't like to bash this show, because it seems to have enough detractors as it is, but I definitely did not like the rest of the episode after the point where Sheppard talked with the guy about all the problems he had caused. Sure, he was a potential murderer, but let him be tried and sentenced after he commited the crime. At that instant, all he could be charged with is attempted murder, something I do not think gets you the death penalty even in the States. There should have been a better way.

But, before that part, I was enjoying the episode. I liked "McKay and Mrs. Miller" a lot, but it was not my favorite episode. The beginning of this one seemed like it could have been pretty similar, but when the bad guy showed up it took a turn that I was not expecting. I had not read all the spoilers for this episode, so I knew nothing about this particular bad guy, but I thought he came off pretty convincingly as a desparate man, who had left his senses and his morals behind in his quest for finding a cure for his daughter. After he injected Jeanie with the nanites (I was hoping the same thing Sweetsong), I realized there was probably no hope for him.

The scenes where McKay was arguing with his sister, were funny bits that I can appreciate, having siblings of my own. Facing some of the greatest dangers in the world would probably not completely prevent us from squabbling a little. And it was nice when he inadvertently compared the loss of his sister to the loss Todd might have felt when his hive ship was lost.

I also thought Shep came off as malicious in his 'persuading' Wallace to 'sacrifice' himself. It really did seem as though he was trying to pressure Wallace by pouring on the guilt. I don't get why Todd had to take Wallace's life force all at once. Why couldn't he have taken some, then regenerated him some, and then taken some more?

[scififreak23]

I also thought Shep came off as malicious in his 'persuading' Wallace to 'sacrifice' himself. It really did seem as though he was trying to pressure Wallace by pouring on the guilt.
I don't get why Todd had to take Wallace's life force all at once. Why couldn't he have taken some, then regenerated him some, and then taken some more?

Becuase wallace probably wanted to die.He wife was dead, his daughter was dead, and if he didn't do this another woman would die and that would have made him a murderer. Wallace wasn't a bad guy i don't think he could have handle the fact that he murdered someone. Sheppard didn't seem malicious to me. Sheppard already stated in sadeta that he would do anything to protect his teammates.In doppeldanger, we saw that sheppard's worst fear is being responsible for a teammates death.He blames himself for what happend to kate and he wasn't even responsible for that.If he gave rodney permission to be fed on that would have been way, way out of character for him.

[FoolishPleasure]

The highlight for me has to be the scene with Rodney volunteering to die for his sister and John refusing to let him.

I didn't think Rodney was offering to "die" for his sister. We all know the Wraith can take bits and pieces, so I figured Rodney was offering some years off his life - go old, revive the Wraith, then they both continue working on the problem. That's how I took it anyway.

John sacrifices a bit of himself (reflected in his reaction back on Atlantis when Rodney questions him about Wallace) by convincing another man to give his life.

Shep laid on the guilt and drove an already depressed man into a suicidal man. I would have preferred to have Wallace offer his vegetative daughter to the Wraith, then take his own life, but Shep pushing him like that was downright cold, and I didn't care for it.

[Ruffles]

I don't like to bash this show, because it seems to have enough detractors as it is, but I definitely did not like the rest of the episode after the point where Sheppard talked with the guy about all the problems he had caused. Sure, he was a potential murderer, but let him be tried and sentenced after he commited the crime. At that instant, all he could be charged with is attempted murder, something I do not think gets you the death penalty even in the States. There should have been a better way.

You think they are going to put a man that knows about the SGC, the stargate, and the Wraith on trial? He would find himself in a prison cell in the bowels on the SGC, never to see the light of day again.

Alas, Mallozzi dropped this name as a SPOILER in his blog and everybody's been spreading it far and wide, despite the fact that the name has yet to be given on the episode. So by the time Sheppard does decide to call the wraith 'todd,' it will be 'eh, we all knew that.'

I don't think Sheppard will name him. I think JM called him "Todd" just to have a reference for this particular Wraith. If Shep was going to name him, he would have done so already.

I also thought Shep came off as malicious in his 'persuading' Wallace to 'sacrifice' himself. It really did seem as though he was trying to pressure Wallace by pouring on the guilt. I don't get why Todd had to take Wallace's life force all at once. Why couldn't he have taken some, then regenerated him some, and then taken some more?

The reason he could regenerate Sheppard in Common Ground was because he fed off the Genii soldiers. I don't think feeding and then giving it back would help the Wraith (kinda like binging and purging).